If You Want To Do Great Things You Need To Do Hard Things First

27:45We all plan, I'm just going to get a great job right away and I'll just be able to get out of it. But that's not the reality here. And a part of this, I would say, of the equation, I would say 80 % of you doing this is just accepting that this is what must be done. And if you can do that, then you can go about the business of actually doing the actions. So part of it is saying, hey, if I want to get where I want to go, there's part of this I just have to accept. It's like running a marathon, Ken. When Sam and I ran our first marathon, it's like in your head you go, I know I want to do this. This race seems good.

28:21I'll feel great when it's all over. I want to accomplish this. And then when you start the training, you're like, oh, wait a minute. It's every day and it gets progressively harder. And what if I get injured and my body hurts and all these things? and half the battle of running a marathon, which in this case, you're dead as the marathon, half the battle is just going, hey, this is what must be true for this amount of time. And if I just embrace it and do it, the finish line will be there. The finish line is there. But if you want to cross it with any amount of grace or style or good timing, then you have to embrace the training.

28:58And that's just how it works. Hard things. things. If you want great things, I promise you, you're going to have to endure hard things. I don't care if it's athletically. I don't care if it's wanting to start a business and grow it and become self-employed. I don't care if it's, I want to go into ministry and touch lives and pour my heart out. You pick any endeavor, physical, emotional, spiritual, financial endeavor. If you want to be great or do something significant, forget great, Sometimes we make great too, like, you know, oh, it's about great, great, great. If you want to do something significant, I can tell you it's on the other side of hard things.

29:40Man, can't avoid it. You know? You cannot. It's unavoidable. Yeah. And it's like sometimes we're like, oh, success and all the things. And we're helping people with money success, work success, relationship success. That's what we're about here. I'm just going to tell you something. I've been married 27 years. As James said earlier, God bless Stacey. I mean, the woman has had to endure some hard things. to make it this far. I mean, it's just, it is what it is. But there's also, and let's break it down further, because there's the hard things that we want to do. Like we say, I'm going to go to school and I know that's going to be a challenge.

30:12And I know it's going to, like, there's the hard things we want to do, but there are then the hard things we don't want to do. And those are part of it. And I think that's really the main, you know, where it disconnects. It's like, wait a second, I knew I was going to have to do hard things, but nobody told me I was going to have to do hard things I didn't want to do. Correct. Yeah, it's like all that training and everything. I'd rather have been home watching football elbow deep in some salsa. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's what I want to do, but nobody wants to be out there pounding the pavement, putting the effort in.

30:43So back to this situation, especially young couples or young people coming right out of this. I got this degree. It's such a huge accomplishment. I don't want in any way downplay it. And you think, okay, I just did all this work and now what? Now what is I going to pay it off or else I'm going to be miserable? And you can't just go, well, I applied to all these different places. I got a part-time pharmacy thing. No. Okay. I'm in. Now I got to go in. I got my foot in the door, but it's not a great gig. So now I got to go work four other jobs to be able to take care of my wife and I, who she's in grad school.

31:20This is the reality. So I wish we again had an easy fix, but we don't. Work the baby steps and working the baby steps, it's a simple process, but it is extremely difficult. Hard hats are required.

31:44What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down? AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42 ,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

32:24With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com. It's free. at netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

33:17All right, are you staying on track with the baby steps? If you'd like to know where you are, how you're tracking, take a quick quiz, and you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to keep that momentum going, you can head to our show notes and click on the link. Are you on track with the baby steps? Complete the quiz, and it gives you a really fun update and some great inspiration. Austin is now joining us in Florida. Austin, how can we help? Hey, how are y 'all doing? Well, we're having a blast today. What's going on with you? Good, good. Hey, listen, so I was up at the bank the other day, and I was just moving some money around and whatnot.

33:59I've been trying to get out of debt. I've been doing very good. Over the last 11 months, I paid off$22 ,000. Wow, good job. Yeah, so I've been trying. I've got, you know,$8 ,900 left to go. I'll be completely debt-free. And the lady up there at the bank was telling me I need to get a credit card to get my credit score to have reoccurring payments on my credit. so I can get a house because I'm looking in the next two years to get a house. And I've been working the Ramsey plan, and I don't want to go for the credit. But I'm stuck right now because I'm so close to having a good credit score as opposed to having no credit score.

34:41So I need somebody with a little bit of a better opinion. You need to listen to Jade, not the nice lady at the bank. The nice lady at the bank has ulterior motives, no matter how sweet and bubbly she was. And I can just picture her. She was probably just as sweet as sugar. And she probably had a lot of credibility because she swayed you a little bit. She kind of knocked you off balance a touch. So glad you called today. And I would like you to never listen to that lady again. And I'd like you to listen to this lady. So with no further ado, take it away. She probably also had a set of assumptions that you would go to that bank to get the loan for your mortgage one of the time.

35:18I think that's what she was doing. so she thought she thought listen you already know the answer austin i can hear it in your voice um but for you and really more so for the benefit of folks listening austin you know if you've been hanging out with us for a little while you know we teach all the time the credit score is not necessary and i'll reiterate that with you again i get it um society teaches us this from a very young age right we're just bombarded with the message right Right. Never leave home without it. Right. And you're you're actually scared to leave home without your MasterCard. Right.

35:51So I get it. But I like to remind people that the only reason you're hearing that message so much is because there's money on the other end of it, you know, for businesses and for banks. What we teach is actually just as true. The truth is, yeah, you can have a great credit score and go buy a house. That is true. There's no falsehood to that. But it's also true and just as true that you can have a zero credit score and go and buy a home. And America needs to know this, right? There are companies that do manual underwriting, which say, hey, we're not looking at a credit score. We're simply looking at how you manage your money.

36:30And that does exist. So in that way, having a zero credit score or an indeterminable credit score is the same. Really, it's better than having a good credit score because it doesn't have the stress and the debt attached to it, right? And so that's how that happens. You pay off all the debt and in six to eight months, for some people, maybe 12 months, your score rolls to zero, which means we can't find it, like I said before, indeterminable. And when that happens, now is the time, that's when you can strike, right? If your score hasn't rolled away yet and it's low, yes, you're gonna have a problem.

37:04But once it hits zero, that's the sweet spot of when that happens. And we would always recommend Churchill Mortgage to you. They do mortgages in the majority of the United States. So yeah, it could take a little due diligence. You hop on their website, do a little research, get connected with someone and start making your plan. And all they're going to want to know is what we're all kind of used to. They're going to want to know your pay stubs, right? Show us your pay stubs. They're going to want to know, you know, can you keep the job? How long have you been at, you know, getting paid? And maybe if you're a small business like Sam and I were, they might wanna see your tax returns, your business tax returns, that's fine.

37:39And then they're gonna wanna see your trade lines. Have you been keeping up with your cell phone payment, your utility payment? And they wanna see proof that you've been paying rent. And that's really important for folks who are living at home. Make sure there's some paper trail to show, hey, I've been paying rent on time. Even if it's to your parents, just make sure you're documenting that because that's really all you need. and then from there it's basically the same process ken that's right exactly right so this is a myth that she just busted and uh hope you get it austin stand strong you're going to stand strong and just smile and wave like the the penguins from adagascar when people hit you with these things i mean you know better don't you yes sir all right so you just got a master class you don't need a credit score do you austin no i do not and that's just i was stuck because i I didn't know if I needed it, you know, within the next two years or not.

38:34That's why we're here. Another quick question. Okay. Another quick question. You got just a second. Well, it's got to be fast. We got other people waiting. What's going on? Right. The next question, my bank. So I don't really want to bank there, but it's the closest one anywhere around where I'm living at. And the Fairwinds is probably an hour and a half away from where I'm at. What can I do with that? What's causing you to go into the bank all the time? Because I feel like... So my rent and everything is cash. All that's a cash deal right now. Why? So to get, just because where it's at, I'm renting out some property and we pay the landlord cash.

39:14So we're saving up to get out of debt. So everything is like a more responsible cash deal. Well, I just, I don't know why you have to pay cash. I just, I don't understand that. Let's talk about that. So if you're doing cash as some sort of an envelope system to try to just like keep your piles of money separate and manage it better, that usually works better for things that you can easily pay cash for, like groceries or maybe gas or things like that. But I do find that things like rent or car payments, it is more convenient to pay for them online. online so unless you're receiving like your income as cash and then you would have to deposit it in the bank anyway but if you're receiving your income as direct deposit i would recommend keeping it as direct deposit that way you can bank at an establishment that you feel good about and do most of it online yeah and fairwinds can take great care of you i mean i'd call them call them and go hey i live an hour away just let them walk you through it but i don't know that you have to do that i i just personally i i know it's 2025 i just cash you got a problem with cash can i i don't have a problem with it but pain it just seems really inconvenient i mean when he started off the call he's like i was at the bank the other day and i was moving my money i was like did you go see you know the mercantile and get your eggs while you were there it felt a very general store yeah it felt like uh i'm not sure this is the best use of our time yeah that's a good point Now, I will say, if you are on baby step two and you're really trying to be on it, I do love cash for that purpose.

40:49But again, use it for the groceries. For the budget buster things. But for rent, rolling up with a wad of cash, I don't know if I feel good about that. Nothing fundamentally wrong with it. No, there's nothing. Well, his problem is there's no bank that he likes. Right, and I'd love him to be with Fairwinds. Yeah, I would too. And so, you know, if he's not having to drive, I can't remember the last time I had to go into the bank. I try at all costs not to go into the bank. Yeah, they're never open. Have you noticed that? Actually, they are more now than ever, I feel like. It used to be like on Saturdays they'd be closed, but now they're open.

41:21On Saturdays? I think so. The banks are open on Saturday? A lot of times it's like until noon or something. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I just remember the days. I'm definitely not going to the bank on a Saturday. I promise you that right now. There's too much football to be watched, especially this time of year, you know? No comment. no comment i'm not you know i need to get into the the football game i haven't let me yeah i mean i can't even tell you yeah all right very good anyway the point is um that much cash big transactions a lot of cash i just you know i don't know i'd be careful rent feels like something you should pay online let's do it like that yeah and it protects you you know the online the banking for everyone's credit, you know, there's protections in using online banking, which I like.

42:07Yeah. You know, and I'll tell you where I do like cash when I'm buying a car for the kids. Oh, to just slap it on there on the table. My favorite move is the accordion. What say you? I call it the accordion. I lay it out on the hood of the car that I'm offering. That is gangster Ken Coleman. I think it kind of is. I'll receive that. Because you're making an offer, right? Oh, yeah. For real. They're asking this. I don't want to pay this. You just silently put it out there. I take the envelope and I do this number and I just kind of count it out on the hood, trying under the guise of being accurate, but it's a hidden flex.

42:41Y 'all don't know that, Ken. It's a G. Way to go, Ken. That's how I bought my last kid's car. Nice old lady, counted it out for her. Take it or leave it. What is she going to do? An old lady. Make you an offer you can't refuse.

43:04For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now, I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last. My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses. Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed, to no one's surprise. And it's not just one man's opinion. Casper customers keep their mattresses for years, and four out of five customers recommend them to friends. And with free delivery and 100-night trial, Casper is no gimmicks.

43:39A mattress you can trust, backed by quality that lasts. So go to casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25 % off all mattresses and 10 % off everything else with code Ramsey. That's casper.com slash Ramsey. Exclusions apply.

44:07welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio alongside jade warsaw i'm ken coleman steve is now joining us in columbia south carolina steve how can we help today yeah hi ken hi j it's great to be speaking with you guys today yeah good to talk to you um So I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce, and we came to a mediated settlement. And as part of it, basically, there's a 50-50 split of the 401k. But then I also have to come up with$100 ,000 in cash in 90 days to buy her out of the house. And then additionally, there's a$150 ,000 lump sum alimony payment over five years.

44:47So kind of two questions is basically, how would you guys recommend coming with the$100 ,000? because I got some advice from the lawyers that I didn't really appreciate, and clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program. And then I treat the outlonee payment going forward. I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or as like a line item in the budget going forward. Why don't we address that one first, Jade? Tell him about where that goes in the budget. The$150 over five years, have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly? Yeah, so about$2 ,500 a month. Can you afford that? And it fits, yeah.

45:25Okay, good. So, yeah, that's a line item on the budget. I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income? About$180 a year. Okay, good. So it ends up being about$8 ,000 a month. Okay. Okay, so... The$100K in 90 days to buy out the house. Yeah, why'd you agree to that?

45:48It's definitely the house. It's in terms of everything else available in the area. There's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. But I'm talking about the term, the time. Like, do you have$100 ,000? Yeah, so that's exactly it. I think it is a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that 90 days. I've got about$55K in cash right now. Okay, well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth? So, not much. It's a 2007 Subaru Forester. What happens if, let's come at this thing from another angle, I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days you don't have$100K?

46:37What is the kick in the contract, the agreement? It's just part of the court order. So I think it'd be going back in front of the touch. I think that's your best bet. This was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part because you can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is. Why not sell that? I was going to say the same thing. Well, the original thought was basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k. So my half of the 401k used part of it to be able to pay her off. That was your plan?

47:20That was the original thought. And then, again, the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan, which I flat out just rejected. I thought that was a bad idea. Because you have to put yourself, you have to reverse engineer, like you have to reverse the situation and say, if I were in any other setting, would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to up the ante on my house? No, you wouldn't. And that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that you either need to give yourself more time. If this is like something that you're like, I love this house.

47:57I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but— Do you have kids? Adult kids. So she's in college now. Okay, so where's your ex going? She's just going to go rent somewhere? Starting a new career in another state. Okay, I'm going to come back to this because I—now, again, I've never walked through this before, so Jade and I are kind of on the same page here. I was thinking about you could do maybe a cash out refi.

48:30I don't know if there's – because you have to take her name off it anyway. I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all? Yeah, that's basically what I'm buying out of. How much equity do you have in the home? About$200 ,000 in equity. So why wouldn't you – I mean – I don't understand given that equity stake that you have. This is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. you are single you got all this money that you that you're gonna have to pay out uh over five years i i personally and again i don't know what you think about this i view it a little differently i know well i'm giving you another train of thought i'm not going to advocate for my point of view i'm going to say if it were me i'd sell the house if if are the kids involved exactly has been going in my brain so to sell it no no no just the back and forth so there's yeah like you said there's i like a clean start in this situation there's there's that but then there's also i mean you did make a good point earlier where you said with the market and when you bought this house you might not be able to get something like that again and i do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that ken and i think there might be and you want to keep the house?

49:48Yeah, standard is you would refi, get her name off of it, and then you would pull the cash out when you refi. And then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the$100 ,000 is her money. It's not you giving$100 ,000 of your money. At this point now, that is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that. It's like, hey, I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money, if that makes sense. Right. So that's, if you want to do the 90 day deal, that's how you would get it. But Ken has a good point.

50:24Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that. Yeah. Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over. So. Yeah. I definitely know that it's starting, starting over, but yep. Yeah. And it's not over. It's starting over. So there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So again, I don't want to advocate for it. That may be too aggressive. How long were you married? 20 years. 20 years. Oh, listen. Ken may have a point. The kids? Do you have kids? Yeah. Remember they've got the... Oh, that's right.

50:57That's right. Is it just one? Yeah. Just one. Ooh, yeah. You got your work cut out for you in terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts. I mean, you make a good income. I've been working through those. You make – here's – I'm not advocating, but I am going to – because I like when you push back. Yeah. So keep pushing on this. I will. But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to pay her her money and have that done. Set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers.

51:35you're going to have to pay her uh a hundred thousand in 90 days and then you got 150 which is alimony over five years um that's a lot of money coming out of your pocket it could be nice to have a smaller and i'm just saying i might rent for a year reset my life i don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes get rid of the house move on into a new chapter of life and another okay i'm going to throw something else in there and this is soon so don't don't be mad at me but you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady and do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into you know fresh start steve yeah so we'll see about that one but sure i i know i jumped ahead but do you see what i'm saying like there's begin with the end in mind is what i'm saying yeah i i don't know i don't know why i feel that way but that's what i would do in that situation and just start you're not wrong You can start fresh.

52:33Get her the$100 ,000. It's her money, to your point. And now work on the rest of it. Oh, divorce sucks. Hate that for you. Yeah, me too.

52:55Buying a home these days can be a real dog-eat-dog situation. Just when you think you've found the right house, somebody else swoops in with a better offer. So you need an edge. Homebuyer Edge from Churchill Mortgage can help you win against the competition with the ultimate triple threat for homebuyers. One, your pre-approval is handled by real humans, not just a computer. So you're positioned like a cash buyer, even without the cash. Two, sellers love a sure thing. So Churchill backs your offer with a$10 ,000 seller guarantee. If your loan falls through, the seller gets$10 ,000, which takes away their fears about financing and gives them another reason to say yes to your offer.

53:41And three, Churchill secures your rate for 90 days, so you don't have to worry about the interest rates going up while you find the right home. It doesn't cost you anything extra, and if rates drop, so does yours automatically. dramatically. With Home Buyer Edge from Churchill, you're not just another buyer, you're a top contender. Go to churchillmortgage.com to arm yourself with the ultimate home buying edge today. That's churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. Home Buyer Edge and Seller Guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan size only and are not available in all states or locations.

54:18NMLS ID 1591, NMLSconsumerAccess.org, equal housing lender.

54:39All right, let's go to Chris, who's joining us now in North Carolina. Chris, how can we help today? Hey, how you doing? So, yeah, I got sick before COVID, and I was bedridden for three years and went through a financial problem real bad. Lost my business, had credit card debt go crazy, and a couple years later now, it's coming back to haunt me. I just now was able to start working again, literally two months in, and I haven't been served yet, but they're trying to serve me with judgment. I don't have any assets before all this happened. I turned my house over to my wife and my property over to daughter.

55:23So I have no assets to worry about that. I guess my question is, should I go through with a bankruptcy before I meet the yearly salary requirement to do so? Or should I not do bankruptcy and wait to see what happens? Short answer is we're not doing the bankruptcy, but tell me, give us more context. What caused you to be sick for three years? Is that over and done, or can that come back? It's possible. I had Lyme disease, and I didn't know that I had it. I was undiagnosed, and then when I got COVID, it dropped my immune system enough to make both of them a problem. And by the time they found it, it went to my heart, my brain, and I had to be on a year of treatment.

56:12And I was still just about two years, I was completely bedridden. And then eventually just slowly started getting better. And your wife, did your wife leave you during that time? You said you left that, gave her the house. What does that mean? No, no, no. We're not legally married. So luckily for her, she doesn't have to deal with that financial part. Now, we've been together this whole time. So you're living with... Why did you call her your wife? Yeah, I'm confused. What's that? Why did you call her your wife and then just tell Jay that you're not married? Well, I guess what would you call a significant other then?

56:52A girlfriend? That would be the proper terminology. I'd just say wife. Okay, I'm not trying to get too technical. I didn't know if there was another part of the story that we needed to know about. So, okay. So your significant other, you've been together a long time. Everything's in her name is what you're saying. So you literally legally have no assets. Correct. Okay. So you've just gotten back to work. What kind of work do you do now and what are you earning?

57:22So project manager and it's$130 ,000 a year. That's good news. And how much is the debt? Good news, definitely. I think it's like around$70 ,000,$80 ,000, something like that. Okay. So first. Some is credit cards, some is loan. Okay. So first, your homework from me tonight anyway is I want you to go and find out exactly how much you owe. I want you to have it written down. This much is credit cards. This much is medical. This much is, you know, personal loan. So you get a sense of what it is and the amounts. because the way we're going to attack this is what we call the debt snowball, where you list them smallest to largest, and you pay minimum payments on everything, and put it as part of your monthly budget.

58:09And then whatever money you have left in margin, which is your extra money, all the extra money goes to the smallest debt. So let's say you have a medical bill, and one of them is only$800. You could essentially knock that$800 bill out in one shot. and then you just keep working through them like that. So$130 ,000, Ken, that's great. That's a great income. I'm going to let you know right now, what you've shown us, aside from the medical part, because that makes this feel very different, but the numbers alone, I mean, I want you to feel good in this case about being average because this is really just kind of your average debt scenario.

58:48You got$130 ,000 income, you're paying off 70. yeah you're going to have to live on not very much maybe you live on 80 to make this happen quickly right and the average person is out of debt in about two years two and a half years so that's where you're going to be with this and yeah are you i got a couple questions chris but are you tracking with jade uh somewhat um what are you not getting if you live on 80 that frees up$50 ,000, and I know taxes and all that, but do you see where I'm getting at? No, I understand that. I guess when you talk with two different attorneys, I'm getting, you know, three different opinions.

59:27I've got, you know, bankruptcy attorneys saying, hey, do bankruptcy. Another bankruptcy is telling me, don't do bankruptcy because you have no assets. North Carolina, it's very rare for them to garnish your wages if they can at all. so the worst you're going to deal with is judgments that may come back to haunt you and we've got another bankruptcy attorney says why wait why wait until you make that 130 000 because north north carolina as soon as you hit that 50 000 you can't do chapter seven so why not do it now let me tell you my reason behind you my reason is when once you file bankruptcy you're going to lose your you lose control over the situation yes and now a court says, here's what the judgment is.

1:00:11Here's what you have to pay a month. Here's what it is. Here's what we'll take. You have no assets. But you said, I'm saying you lose control over the situation. And there's an emotional component that's going to go along with that. It's basically you signing on the paper that says, I lost control. I'm not fit to handle this by myself. Here, you guys take it. That's going to take an emotional toll, not only on you. Obviously, it's going to decimate your credit. I'm sure your credit's already bad, but that's going to take seven years to fall off your credit. So this is going to haunt you when you can look at the situation and go, actually, there is some agency and some autonomy that you can take over this and you get to decide.

1:00:49You can say, you know what, I made a mess. And instead of losing your confidence, you can build your confidence up by cleaning it up one debt at a time. And that does something for you as well. When you take control of a situation and you clean it up and you make something wrong right, That's building something in you that at this time in your life, you really, really, really need. Listen, you've been through it. Amen. Yes and amen to everything Jade said, Chris. And I agree with one of the bankruptcy lawyers that you shouldn't do this for all the reasons she just gave you. But the thing that I'm concerned about for you, you've had your life turned upside down.

1:01:26And man, I hate that for you. Man, I have so much compassion for you. But I think it, as it would anybody, Chris, it jaded you or it shaded some of your perceptions about what you should do. The fact that you are living with a woman that you refer to as your wife and you signed a house over to her that you bought. Am I understanding this correctly? Correct. Brother, that needs to change. Do you want to be with this woman the rest of your life? Yes or no? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Is there a reason why, from her, that you guys aren't married? Is it her or is it you? Well, religiously, we're married.

1:02:12We went through all of that. So, I mean, we're a family, all that. We just didn't. What do you mean? You got a marriage license? What do you mean religiously you're married? So we went through the ceremony, but we never did a certificate. So in North Carolina, technically, we are married. As far as, you know, North Carolina, when you're living with somebody for seven years, you're legally married. Common law. Okay. Common law. But as far as, you know, the IRS, the government, and all that. Hold on. Finish that sentence. I want to hear this reasoning really quick. The IRS, the government, finish that.

1:02:44Yeah. As far as, you know, doing the marriage certificate and IRS and all that, in fact, we file separately. We're separate. We're not legally married. Yeah, I get it. My point is you signed your house over to somebody, and I don't know where that falls in North Carolina law. I don't have time to figure that out on this little bit of a call, but that needs to get— It's a lot of trust. Yeah, yeah. You need to get that. That needs to be fixed. Like, A, don't file bankruptcy. B, get the house back in your name, if that's even possible. I got you. No, no, dude. This is not something to chuckle about.

1:03:18I don't think you get— No, it's— I don't think you get— The concern is what's going on now. The concern is what's going on now is that, you know, going out, you know, we've got credit card and bank. When did you sign the house? Here's what I think you did. Here's what I think you did. I'm not trying to make a bad situation worse, but I have a sense that you guys capitalized on the fact that you never got the marriage certificate when you saw that it was about to start pouring rain on your situation. And I think you transferred that house over to her name. I do, too. And if you keep evading this, it is going to follow you.

1:03:55You've got to deal with this. Dig out, bro. Stop trying to move stuff over here and move it over here and do the same mercy. Just deal with it. You can do that. We've seen people do this, Chris. And you've done all these kind of little maneuvers and you think it's funny. Hey, you called us. I'm going to tell you something. What you're doing, there's nothing funny. It's scary.

1:04:27If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card, and it says, debt is normal, be weird, right on the front. I love that, because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do.

1:05:13And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

1:06:03All right. Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans can drag on for years, but Y-Refi helps borrowers explore custom refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can actually manage. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Chelsea in Idaho. She says, my daughter recently graduated college and we will be traveling for the final step of a job interview soon. She's already passed the first three steps in the process. Is it ever okay to request your expenses be comped by the company you are applying to?

1:06:46She estimates the airfare, Uber, hotels, meals, and three days of missed wages at her current job will run her roughly$1 ,000. This would make a huge impact on her monthly budget for a job she doesn't even have yet. Would it be inappropriate for her to email the company and ask for reimbursement for at least some of these expenses? Yes, it would be wildly, wildly silly. not even inappropriate just silly you're guaranteeing she doesn't get the job uh and chelsea i'm honored you sent the question to us but the fact that you're asking us this concerns me uh-huh this is entitlement 101 you are not entitled to your expenses for applying to a job if your money's tight it's not their fault my goodness gracious by the way this is the world we live in where parents are showing up to job interviews uh and and then the kids are complaining mom it's going to cost me a thousand dollars she goes i'll tell you what i'll email the the ramsay show people and see if that's appropriate it's not appropriate it's called the cost of living i'm i'm mildly irritated right now get get all the way irritated yeah i want to see what happens i don't want to okay i god bless you for the question but no please don't do that and explain to her why i'm not sure you know why it's not done it's unreasonable yeah this is you trying to win the job and you're competing against other people and you don't say hey this cost me a thousand bucks to travel here to apply they're gonna go we don't care and we don't want you here because you're too soft and you're already causing you're already drama let me tell you can And 101, this is just from being in entertainment.

1:08:40When I used to be in entertainment, my agent would say, just show up and do the job. Don't be drama. If you're drama, you could be the best on stage. But if you're drama, they'll never have you back. Just go. It could be the worst room ever and go, this is such a nice place. Thank you for having me. Everything is a graciousness. Not, hey, the M &Ms were a little bit, there were too many red ones in the dish. That's what this is. There's too many red M &Ms in my dish. And you got it. When opportunity knocks, Ken, you have to be ready to answer the door. That's on you. I just looked in the drawer over here.

1:09:17I thought maybe there'd be some Tums. I got a little indigestion right here on that question. Right there. You know what I'm talking about? People in the lobby. You know what I'm talking about? It's going to be a little something there. She got it. Are you for real? She got the Tums right there. Lady James, she just reached up with a bottle of Tums. So fantastic. By the way, I do not endorse them. It's just a fun joke. All right. Jane is up in Washington. Jane, how can we help today? Hi. So about 10 years ago, we took the Financial Peace University, sold the SUV, got a minivan instead, and worked our way up to step number four.

1:10:01Life happened, and we're back down at step number two. with the number of emergencies that we have had in the last seven years, I want to be stockpiling money. I want to get that six months of income or of household needs saved up before we tackle the debt that we had to take on a couple years ago. Okay. Well, let's go ahead and head that idea off. That's never something that we would recommend, and Jade will walk you through why, but let's first get a picture of where we are. So at one point you were working the baby steps and you got to baby step four. And now all these emergencies, you're saying the emergencies are responsible for the debt.

1:10:41And if that's true, how much debt do you have now? We only have$9 ,000 in non-mortgage debt right now. Is that on a credit card? No, it's a personal line of credit for we had to have the siding replaced. A storm came through, damaged both our roof and our siding. You didn't have insurance?

1:11:08Hello? It couldn't even occur to me to go through the insurance when we did this four years ago. The house was livable, but the roof was leaking and the siding was damaged enough on one wall. Did somebody make the whole thing? Are you sure or did somebody make the decision and say, we don't want to submit this claim because we don't want our premium to go up and so we'll just take out debt?

1:11:36So my husband and I are first time homeowners. Neither of our parents ever own their homes. And I guess in the discussion years ago when we were having that, maybe it was part of the we didn't want the premiums to go up. That feels right. But this was, yeah. So the$9 ,000 on a credit card is solely based on, you've mentioned several emergencies. Yeah, totally. So what emergencies are coming up in your life that have put you in a position where you believed that you had to do$9 ,000 worth of credit cards? Well, we had one child who was failure to thrive. And for two years, I was unable to work taking care of that baby.

1:12:19Okay. We have another child who is special needs. So the one who was failure-thrified is doing fine now. Okay, great. But we do have one who has some special needs, and that impacts my ability to work. Okay. So we went from two incomes to one. Okay. What's your household income now? We have no credit card. We're hoping to hit$100 ,000 next year, this year. My husband was laid off this year. Okay. Three months out of work. Okay. But with his new job, he'll be$100 ,000 next year, but not this year. Okay, great. And are you able to work outside the home? Not outside the home, no. Okay. I do some work online and bring home about$6 ,000 a year.

1:13:07Okay. Okay. And so, okay, so I want to give Jade, I want Jade to answer the core question as to why we would not have you work on Baby Step 3 ahead of Baby Step 2, which is only$9 ,000. And I know that may seem like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, Jade, it's very doable. Yeah. So I just want to make sure it's just the two kids or are there more? Just two home now. Okay, two home. um i think life has hit you with a lot and because of that it's kind of inflated uh the feeling of the debt more so than it is um you mentioned before that you know it took seven years you know you've been in this for seven years and so i just feel like there's been a lot that's happened that much of it has not much to do with the debt but it all kind of is conglomerated together in your mind because when I look at this right now I go oh nine thousand dollars of debt why isn't that gone in two months because if you do the budget it's our household our household needs are high enough that help me understand why because what it sounds like is help me understand where that is because what I'm hearing is in a generalized situation rent is usually the highest or mortgage is the highest and then the second highest thing if there's kids is some form of daycare and usually those are the two that are kind of causing things to be really tight.

1:14:33Because your debt's not the problem. The$9 ,000 debt is not what's breaking you. Is there something more in the equation that you're not telling us about? Are there cars? Is your mortgage a crazy amount of your take-home pay? No. So food, medicine. Oh, medicine? Yeah, we have certain medications. Insurance covers so much. Uh-huh. But yeah, between food and we're not in any medical debt. Tell me right quick because we're up against the clock and I'm sorry, but tell me what you spend in medication and tell me what you spend on your mortgage. We spend$1 ,500 a month between food and medicine and$1 ,200 a month on the mortgage.

1:15:18Okay, this shouldn't be a problem. I think that you guys need to get on a really, really tight budget. I love that you know your numbers, but pay that$9 ,000 off. It's going to take you two to three months to do it and then stack up as much money as you want to, to keep the big bad wolf away from your door.

1:16:01Hey, everybody. You need insurance. And nobody really likes digging into insurance, right? You know you need it. George does. George kind of does. Outside of George, nobody does. But we know it's hard to figure this out. And that's why we have our Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pros. and you're never going to deal with sleaziness, salespeople, we've vetted them. They're going to coach you up, make sure you get what you need. And you can find them by going to RamseySolutions.com slash coverage, RamseySolutions.com slash coverage. And you can connect with a Ramsey trusted agent, or you can click on the link in our show notes.

1:16:43All right, Doug is up next in Connecticut. Doug, how can we help today? Hey, how are we doing today? Good. How are you, sir? Excellent, excellent. Thanks for taking my call. I got two questions. The first one's a real simple, quick yes or no, I hope. Anyway, Dave talks about doing 15 % in retirement after you're completely debt-free besides the house. That 15%, my company does a 5 % match. So is that 15%, like 10 % that I put in plus the 5 % is 15 % or is it 15 % and whatever the company matches is added bonus basically? Yeah. Typically we think of it as whatever the company adds is the added bonus.

1:17:21And that's just The reasoning for that is if for some reason you went to another job and they didn't have that bonus, you would still be in the rhythm of giving 15 percent of your income. Like that's just a great way to do it. And since you're debt free, except the house, like if you wanted to go above 15 percent, you could. And I think it's a good idea if you do. Totally. Yeah, absolutely. OK, so the main question. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. That answered a lot of questions for me. Um, so the situation FPU graduate 13 years ago, I just started listening to the podcast like two months ago and rediscovered Dave and I've listened every day.

1:17:55So love you guys. Thank you very much. Um, downloaded the every dollar app literally three weeks ago. Um, so my situation is this, uh, at$23 ,000 in an emergency fund. That is my, uh, that's about five months of expenses right there. 280 K in retirement, which I recently stopped, uh, contributing to. Um, I have zero credit card debt. I'm single. I don't have any kids. I make about$140 to$160 a year take home. I take home about$6 ,500 to$9 ,000 a month, depending on the season. You know, winters are a little slower. I do have a mortgage, but I failed with the car. I got a car literally a year ago, financed it.

1:18:37However, I took a three-year loan on the car, and they were offering 0%. So I figured, oh, I'm going to beat these guys up because, you know, I got 0%, right? Now, payment is$1 ,000 a month, which is comfortable. I can get by. But I also get a$600 a month car allowance from work, right, to go towards basically whatever I want. Thank goodness. So in my head, I'm thinking, yeah,$400 a month out of pocket, no sweat. It's all good. But like I said, 0%. I currently owe$26 ,000 on the car. And with doing the EveryDollarBudget app, I literally last month found an extra$140 of extra income. Great. which I already put towards the car.

1:19:15So I'm down. I want to get rid of this car. I just, with a 0 % loan, I can't see how, and a lot of people can't see how it makes sense to take my money that I've been saving up$23 ,000 for the last God knows how many years it took me to get there. Sure. And just throw it at the car. Why did it take you so long with this great income? Did you have, you're single, yes? Yeah, I have a girlfriend, but yeah, single, yeah. But why did it take you so long? Or is this income new? I mean. no this is no income's not new um i've been with the company about seven years um and actually the last couple years i built my book of business so you know i'm definitely you know the income's been growing under year after year okay uh yeah and like i said i just i just got i had a car that was paid for uh before i got into this car but i'm 45 years old i'm 6 '3 250 pounds so a nice little little car is not doing it anymore so i needed something a little bigger so i went with SUV, right?

1:20:09Wait a minute, wait a minute. I've heard a lot of reasons for keeping a car. I think that's the good one. You act like you're an NBA player. You're not that big. Yeah, I know. I think you like, listen, I think you like the fact that you got 0 % interest. I think you like the fact that your job is kicking into$600 a month and you're like, hey, what's the big deal? It's$400 a month. It's for three years. Do I really, Jade, have to, you know, Ken, do I really have to pay this thing off? And here's where I'm just going to tell you where I see risk. Where I see the risk is if you got fired tomorrow, you'd be on the hook for a car loan and you'd be on the hook for the whole thousand dollars.

1:20:46And I'm always going to tell you to go the path of least beneficial risk. Like there's times where risk could be beneficial, right? There's a certain amount of risk that you take when you take out a home mortgage, right? But the benefit outweighs the risk. In this case, there's risk there. Do you really need it? Is it going to affect you? I think it could. And I think that you could easily pay this thing off and just be like, you know, give the finger to the whole thing and just say, I don't need a payment at all. I have money by, by Felicia and just pay it off. Yeah. No. And I, I agree. And at the end of the day, like I said, I just did just started the every dollar budget.

1:21:24So I'm sitting there like, if I could literally find an extra three, four or five, and I probably would have found more money, but I had two vacations. So yeah, at the end of the day, I could, I could easily probably find an extra five, six, seven, eight hundred dollars. Who knows? You know, at the end of this month and throw it towards the car. Now, let me tell you what I do. Let me tell you what I would do, Doug. I would go to my employer and I'd say, you guys are giving me the six hundred dollar bonus, which I really appreciate. I love this money. It's so helpful for me. I'm planning on paying off the car.

1:21:54I did the I did the math and I found out that if you paid me the six hundred dollars over the entire length of this car payment, it would amount to X amount of dollars. is there a way since if i if i prove to you that i paid it off in full that you'll still give me that money as my stipend that's what i would do does that is that fair ken you're the i'd want to do a little research before i took that proposal to them like you know because if they're going to pay it anyway yeah i just want to go ahead yeah i'm saying the car allowance is more for like repairs brakes auto because i i drive my own car i put about 25 to 30 000 miles on the car a year outside sales rep.

1:22:29So they'll give it to you anyway. They give it to me. Oh, I'll give it anyway. Yeah, if I have no car payment, I'm getting that money for garbage. So, Doug, you called us. I think we're talking all the way around this thing. Doug, we're dancing all around this thing. You called to say what? What was your question, your core question? Should I empty my high-yield savings account, which is where my emergency fund is, where I'm getting 4 % interest on, and just basically dump it, maybe minus the thousands, to keep my emergency fund, you know. Yes. It's like you've listened to the show before. Yes.

1:22:59Yes, Doug. How much do you have in your emergency fund? $23 ,000. And how much is to pay off the car in full? $26 ,000. Do it. Done. And then you build the emergency fund. Back up. You've got a great income and you're single. Stop the vacations, man. You're living high on the hog, buddy. You know, you can build this. You're golfing. Yeah. Like, I mean, listen, that's the plan. You empty it out. you say of a thousand dollars so you're gonna have one thousand dollars in there you're back to you see what i'm saying you pay the car off absolutely and now you're back to baby step three you get the three to six months and now you can go back to you know your vacation single guy and all that this should be an easy fix for you easy fix so i i i agree and uh it was one of those things where i've been since i've been listening to you guys like i said i rediscovered the the baby steps rediscovered dave and i had i basically went from baby step one to three back to two and you know you need to discover yourself without a car payment yeah yeah you're playing financial twister you know right hand on red you know left foot on green no we don't have a financial twister plan we have the baby step plan and you just got to follow it and here's the good news for you doug Like you have the means to do this immediately.

1:24:19Yeah. And now you got yourself a paid for car. How's that going to feel? That's a baller. Yeah, it's going to feel great. And an unbelievable deal from your company that like I would take that 600 a month and stack that. Yes. For any car replacement, anything. Oh, come on. Give him that. Give him that. My computer's dead. I want you to go to RamseySolutions.com. I want you to look at the investment calculator. And I want you to plug in. if you take that$600 and you just drop it in your investments for the next 20 years, what that's going to be. And your mind is going to be blown. Dougie Doug. No, 100%.

1:24:53Yeah. All right. I agree. There you go. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thanks for the call. Don't overcomplicate it. You know, I hate to do this, but they're not my steps. Dave came up with them, so I can refer to them and be kind of obnoxious about it. But I mean, there's a reason why there's one, and then it leads to two, and then it goes to three. It's called a system. I mean, pretty simple stuff. But I love that. I'm going to give Doug, by the way, the caller of the day award for the rationale of being 6 '3", about 240. Is that what he said? I'm like, are you trying to get a date or keep your car?

1:25:27What's going on here? He's like, I got to get a bigger car because I can't just fold up like an accordion in this sedan. Like the guy's a tight, like he's an NFL tight end. Tight end. Come on, man. On that thing, I should be riding around on a bicycle. I'm a little guy.

1:25:50Many of you listen to The Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth, And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:26:44Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. And we're going to go to Matt, who's joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas. Matt, how can we help today? Yes, sir. So as of this past Monday, I had a truck that I've been paying on for about two years. I had an auto loan for about$30 ,000 on it. I owe about$23 ,000 on it, and the motor blew up. It's unfortunately just a bad design from General Motors. They've had issues with this vehicle or these motors for a substantial amount of years at this point, and I am now falling victim to said bad design.

1:27:31And it would be about$15 ,000 to have the motor replaced. And I'm trying to decide what's my best option for it before I try to go trade it in. And then it would be upside down on it. You owe$23 ,000? Yes, sir. If you get the motor fixed, if we could snap our fingers and it was just fixed today and it was paid off, is this a truck you'd be happy to drive for a while? And could you? The truck's in great condition. Other than that, if the motor were to be fixed, there is a company that sells a motor that has the system that caused it to have this issue in the first place deleted. And that's the option that I went and got quoted from when I talked to a shop.

1:28:22Do you have the$15 ,000 in cash? I do not. What do you have in cash? I don't have much. My girlfriend just finished school, and I was basically the primary provider for about a year and a half with us. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How old are you? About 30 years old. You're 30. Okay. Compliment to you. You sounded much older. You did. You did. Why are you the primary provider for your girlfriend? You guys aren't married. Is she 32? No, she's a little younger than me. How old is she? She is 27. You really don't know how old she is? You had to think about that? That's kind of funny to me.

1:29:08That's a different issue. That's a whole other deal. Okay. Different show, different show, but I'm going to go ahead and tell you, you probably need to be on top of that one. Okay, you should, so you need to come up with 15 grand. What do you make? I work in public safety. um so last year i made about 70 000 um i'm probably on track for about the same this year and and and um if you weren't helping provide for your girlfriend it's just you right just rent or do you own a home i mean what's what's the situation there no it would just be renting my normal expenses and i'm sorry for following up on this is she able to support herself now yes she's working full-time again she just started with the the school year jade i she works as a um a american sign language interpreter and she started interpreting with her school yeah all right jade i don't know where you're at on this but i there's there's a part of me that goes because he's already upset down in this the trade-in option to me is just foolish you're just not going to get anything at all i'd rather see him working two three four jobs and come up with 15 grand to get that truck fixed.

1:30:21And then you got to swallow the pill and pay it off. But if the truck's in good shape other than this defect, again, I'm giving you the answer on what I would do. Well, yeah, I mean, if you roll out the numbers, if we looked it up and said, what could you get for this with the bad engine? I mean, what is it? What would be your estimate? Do you have any idea? Yeah, I've been shopping around with a couple different dealerships. I reached out to GM recently because, or I'm sorry, GMC, because they have the highest rebates and stuff right now. And what'd they say? GM would give me$9 ,000. Okay. GMC would give me$9 ,000.

1:31:04I mean, because if you think about it like that, and then you add what you would have to kick in to cover the upside down, plus to get another vehicle, do you see what I'm saying? You're still shelling out$15 ,000. so that's kind of the numbers on it i i can't see why you wouldn't just at this point i hate it but yeah i don't think the numbers are good for you either way so it's do you want to keep the car and pay the 15 000 or do you want to get out of the car and get another beater which i don't think you do i think you'd rather drive the more the nicer car of the two if you can just get the money.

1:31:42I've tried that. You can't go into debt for this. I'll tell you that. Like if you end up, if you can't find the money and you end up having to go the other route of, you know. Okay. Because here's the thing. If you do a personal loan to get from upside down, your numbers are going down. And I can advocate for that, right? I can advocate for you getting out of debt and then having to get a beater car and taking out a personal loan to do that, right? What I can't advocate for is you taking out a personal loan to keep a$23 ,000 car that you were already in debt for. Does that make sense? So if you can't come up with the money, you might be going down in value.

1:32:27But I'm sitting next to a person who, with her husband, they had one car for how many years? A decade. So where there's a will, there's a way. And what I'm saying is figure out a way to get where you need to get. And I think you can come up with$15 ,000 pretty quick, a single guy who's able-bodied. Now you might have to stop taking care of your girlfriend. Oh, no, that's done. I'm already assuming because she's just your girlfriend. She's a grown woman. You got problems. So taking care of her problems isn't your problem. You can't. You know, in fact, you guys have been, you know, playing house for apparently a long time anyway.

1:33:11So no date nights, no nothing. You got to come up with 15 grand stat.

1:33:18Did we lose you? No, I'm still here. Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow. It is. But I just think the way Jade broke it down is great. And that just, again, we're always trying to answer things like, what would we do if you were in your shoes? If you can get the money without debt, yes, keep the cards. To your point, it's going to be a great car when you get it fixed, but you can't do debt. I can't let you take out$15 ,000 of debt and put it with a$23 ,000 debt. I can't let you do that. And you should say that to yourself too. And go back and listen to this call, right? Don't come off this call and go, oh, I can't get$15 ,000.

1:33:55I'm just going to marinate on it because when you do, you're going to see, oh man, The last thing I want to do is go from being$23 ,000 in debt to being$45 ,000 in debt. That would be terrible. I agree completely. Are you stunned? Yeah, I've tried going that route. I just haven't been able to find a place to be able to do that. I initially did attempt to contact my bank to try for a personal loan because other than the faulty design I don't have an issue with the truck I enjoy the truck I've been driving the truck for two years and it's been great so then what do you think your option is because you're either you're either not getting the car fixed or you listen your other option is take the time however long it takes you to save up the 15 000 and in the meantime you're taking the bus and you're riding your bike and you're getting ubers and you're calling up leroy to hit you up for a ride like that's that's your option that's what i that's what i think you gotta do yeah i don't think he likes that option i'm not even sure he heard that i went through that painstakingly i think it went in one ear and out the other listen it's not fun that's why it's not fun

1:35:31you spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:36:29All right, folks, you've been paying attention to the news. You know the Fed just cut the rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed mortgage rates have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Why? Some of you are going, Ken, I'd like to play the market. I'd like to see the rates come down. Can I just give you a little opinion here, a little off the talking points opinion? Yeah. Thank you. Here's what could happen. If mortgage rates continue to have a slight drop, you're not going to see it, in my opinion, drop back down in the twos.

1:37:03But if you have a slight drop, here's what's going to happen. People are going to get back in the market. And as demand grows, guess what else is going to happen? house prices go back up. So for some of you are going, I'd like to see that rate drop. I'm playing the rate game. What you don't understand is as rates drop, housing prices will go back up. It is supply demand. So I'm not pushing you to buy right now, but even though these rates are elevated from where they were several years ago, I'm telling you, Jade, it's just supply demand and it never fails reminds me of a song oh you're not gonna get this one had to make it to the top just to see how hard they drop yep nothing no nothing forrest frank no one oh well okay never mind yeah she got it oh there's a lady in the audience that's clapping forrest frank fan um i'll be honest with you i'm a little embarrassed i'm not even sure who that is that's okay is that bad no it's not bad okay james knows everything about music they overplay him in the church Sheath Group, some kind of...

1:38:06Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a Christian artist. It's a Christian artist. That's why I said it was a deep cut. Boy, oh boy. Listen, he's doing his thing. Good for him. And it was a great analogy for your real estate. There it is. So here's the point. Now might be the time to buy. Thank you, Jade. Folks, I never know any music reference. It's just, it's terrible. It was a deep cut, Ken. Yeah, I like that. But here's the point I'm making. now might be the best time from a home price situation to jump in or to sell. All right. So if that's you on either side of that coin, you need a pro to help you. That's why we have our Ramsey trusted real estate agents that are standing by in locales all across the country.

1:38:47You can find one for free at Ramsey solutions.com slash agents. That's plural Ramsey solutions.com slash agents. All right, Julia is up in Bend, Oregon. Julia, how can we help today? Hi, I'm honored to speak with you both today. Good to speak with you. What's going on? Thanks. I have a two-parter for you. I want to make sure first I'm like budgeting appropriately and putting the right amount towards debt given my income. And then with some upcoming fertility treatments on the horizon, whether that should be kind of cash flowed or do like a mini stork mode to stockpile some cash. I like this question.

1:39:31Tell us more. Okay, so let's see debt. I just have 12 ,000 on the credit card. It's me and my husband. And that's the main thing we're trying to get through. Next is a home equity line of credit, which based on the amount I'm putting that with our mortgage. Great. Okay. So luckily it's not very much consumer debt. I just feel like we should be able to pay off more and just things come up every month. It seems like that hinder our progress. What's you guys' income? We make 144 ,000 gross and taking home just under 8 ,000 a month. And what we've been able to do is rent out some rooms in our house and we part of that HELOC was completing an ADU so that we can get some additional income.

1:40:19So we have about 3 ,300 coming in now just as of last month. In addition to the 8 ,000? Exactly. I think that's going to be a big help. But yeah, that's all kind of new. Okay. So what's the fertility treatments costing you? Are you cash flowing it currently or you haven't started yet? um i we've been cash flowing up to this point of it's just been like a five-year journey unfortunately and we're finally at the time of like probably needing ivf or something okay um so what i'm looking at is my insurance thankfully covers up to ten thousand dollars of assistance there but i have to meet my deductible of three thousand so and i'm assuming we're going to need more than that because ivf can obviously cost way more than ten thousand dollars.

1:41:05What's the top end? Sorry. What's the top end? Like if you were really like running it through, like what's, what's the most you could spend or that you would spend like that? I mean, I don't even know because it looks like it varies by state, but it looked like in Oregon, maybe like 10 to 15, hopefully not more than 20. Okay. Um, you know, my thought on this is if anybody else called in and said, hey, we're thinking of having a baby and they became pregnant, yeah, we would put them in stork mode. In your case, becoming pregnant is the cost ahead of time, right? Like everybody else gets pregnant, then the cost comes, your cost comes ahead of time.

1:41:45So I would still treat it the same way. I'm not going to tell you to wait to pay off debt to try to get pregnant. But I will say it must be done in cash. I think that this is you going in on a bet and you don't want to go into debt on that because that could add insult to injury. Right, of like$3 ,000. So I guess that was my question. Do I stack up that$3 ,000 so we at least know when we're ready to start we have that or just cash flow that as we go, which I think we can do. If you can cash flow it, I would cash flow it. If you can do a little of both, I think that's great. If you can cash flow this fertility and keep paying off the$12 ,000, I think that's winning.

1:42:29If you're finding that, hey, we literally don't have enough cash to do both of these. If you have to put less towards your snowball, that's fine. If you have to cause it to pause briefly for a couple of months, I think that that's fine too, especially since you said like age-wise you're getting to the end of this. I would do I mean if I were in your shoes trying to do what you're trying to do I would do that Ken? Yeah I agree I agree yeah I can't add anything to that at all and listen can I just say on a personal note I was listening Stacy and I went through your journey and it's really really tough and you know just hang in there and these days of uncertainty can really eat away at you so certainly understand where you're coming from but But please don't make, and not to say that you're planning to, but don't ever let the emotion drive you to a poor financial decision to put you in a bad spot.

1:43:24You guys walked through all of that. And so I just wanted to add that one little, I can't add anything financial advice, but as hard as it is, I just believe there's a plan and I believe you're going to be a mama one day. And that's all I want to leave you with. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough stuff. You know, these numbers, you know, just you look at the data out there and I just feel like I'm supposed to say something about this, not just to her, but to our larger audience. You know, we see the infertility numbers continue to kind of move up. That needle's moving up in the United States. And, you know, there's nothing harder for young couples who want to start a family to have that need, desire unmet.

1:44:03And it can be really tough. And so here's the point that I'm making. You can really rationalize, Jade, going into untold amount of debt to go, my heart longs to be a mom or a dad, and we're going to do whatever it takes. And you have a lot of people encourage you. And the reality is, is you just don't know how all that's going to play out. There's no guarantee on these treatments. That's right. Except for the bill coming due. Yeah. You want it to end well, but it's sad when it doesn't. That's exactly right. Right. So here's what I wanted to encourage people that may be listening and watching in this situation.

1:44:41If that's the case, and I say go all in, but go all in and be able to pay cash for it. So sacrifice in other areas of your life. Right. Don't sacrifice your future. Right. On the altar of the immediate, where you want to do whatever it takes to become mom and dad. And I just would say, you know, sell the house, like change your living. Like, okay, we're going to go backwards a little bit in every other area of our life so that we can start a family. And it's a very tempting thing. And you know how tough emotionally. I'm sure you've walked that through with other ladies in your life and friends.

1:45:15We're all kind of touched by friends that have gone through it. Just please don't fall into that emotional trap. I agree. To where you can rationalize debt because it's going to make that existing pain even more painful. So tough stuff there. Julia, thanks for calling and sharing transparently with us. We're rooting for you here. You got this. Hang in there. Better days are ahead.

1:46:06How many times do you end up with too much month at the end of the money? Even if you can cover the bills, there's nothing left over. You work your butt off and you still feel broke. That's normal for most people. But you do not have to live that way. You can completely transform your money and your life with EveryDollar. Our world-class budgeting app is better than ever. Now, every dollar coaches you to find extra margin every month so you can make real progress and change your family tree. The average person finds$3 ,015 in just the first 15 minutes. That's extra money you could use to beat debt, to build wealth, to finally breathe again.

1:46:51Don't settle for living normal with money. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today.

1:47:15All right, let's go to William in Pennsylvania. William, how can we help you today? Hi, so I got two questions. My main question is investments. Since I'm actually able to put money aside and save up a lot more, I'm wondering what places I can invest my money into for the best results in the long run. I'm very young, and I'm hoping to be able to have a lot more than just a 401k whenever it's time to hopefully retire if I'm ever able to. How old are you? 22. 22. And do you have any debt? Yeah, I have a house and two vehicles. Wow. Oh, boy. Tell us about those first before we get into the investing.

1:47:56Okay, so last year I closed on my first home right before my 21st birthday. I moved in around September 3rd, I believe, was my move-in date. Bought all the furniture out right, had the closing costs figured out, had the down payment figured out. And I owned three vehicles completely. I bought them all in cash. Great. And once I figured out how much money I was making, it's not a lot, but for this area, it's quite a bit. What do you make? I was able to do, right now I make$27 an hour. Okay. And I appreciate all the timeline. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, for Southwestern PA, it's substantial. Okay,$27 an hour is great.

1:48:39But you said you have two car loans. How much are the car loans? Combined or like separate? Separate. You had two cars, two loans. So my first vehicle would be my now wife's vehicle. We paid$15 ,000 for it, and I did have to get a loan for it. And I pay around$300 a month for it. So you owe$15 ,000 on that one? Just about. Okay, and then what do you owe on the second car? So I just bought a truck about three weeks ago, and it was$23 ,000. I pay just under$400 a month for it. And what do you take home every month from your job? Combined, we both take home around$6 ,000 a month. Okay. And what do you pay in your mortgage payment?

1:49:27My mortgage is$600. Wow, that's good. Okay. I'm afraid for you because you're starting a trend of debt. A bad trend, yes. I understand that. I was told and I just realized that a couple of weeks ago. Okay, I'm glad that you... And so you agree then? you're like, I can't keep going down this route, right? Oh, no, that's the last purchase I'll be making for a long time. Good. Okay. If I ever do again. Okay. I'm glad to hear you say that. So you started out with an investment question. I will get to that, I promise. Ken will make sure of it. But I did want to address the debt. So you do, if you've been hanging out with us for a while, can we do say that you do need to be paying off your debts before you invest?

1:50:16And there's a lot of reasons behind that. Of course, yeah. Right? And you want to make sure that when you do invest, you're able to invest an amount that's really going to move the needle for you and you have the fullness of your income at your disposal to do that. So step one is you and your wife getting together and saying, how can we quickly tackle this$38 ,000 of debt using our$6 ,000 a month income so that we can regain$700 a month in payments, right? That's the first plan. And so do you have EveryDollar? What do you mean EveryDollar? So EveryDollar is our budgeting app. It's really more than a budgeting app.

1:50:54It's giving you your whole financial snapshot. Oh, yeah, I've heard of it, yes. Yeah, so you'll spend, I'll give it to you for free, and you'll spend, you know, five minutes telling the app your situation, and it's going to craft a plan specifically for you, and it's going to help you find the exact margin that you need to pay off this$30-some-thousand dollars of debt. Yeah. And as long as you follow the recommendations, I promise you're going to get there because it's going to tell you exactly what Ken and I would tell you here in this room, which is, yeah, list some smallest to largest, start with the$15 ,000 one first, but it's going to look deeply into your budget and find money that we can't see through the phone line.

1:51:31So that's step one. Now let's talk about your investing question. Ask it again so I don't miss it. So I do have a 401k. That's obviously brand spanking new. But I don't want to just have to rely on that in 50 years from now if I'm even able to retire. Why? I don't want to just have that. What do you mean? Why? I'm trying to understand you. Why does that bother you to have a 401k? I just don't want that to be the only thing I settle with. What do you want besides that? That's just a traditional retirement account. You want land. What do you want? I mean, I would love to buy land. I would absolutely love to, but I just, I just, I'm new at everything.

1:52:14I just graduated almost five years ago. That's true. You sound older than you are. You do. You're an old soul. I think Jade needs to give you, I'm going to have her walk you through the baby step plan and strategy so that you get this and she can touch on the investing so that you see the big picture. I do want to, I'm actually going to go in the reverse order of what Ken said. She's going to do the reverse of what I said. Reverse. Sounds like my marriage. My bad. This is great. All right. Stacey, here's what I think we should do. Oh, you don't? Okay, never mind. We'll do what you want to do. Sorry, Ken.

1:52:45Listen. No, it's great. Go for it. No, keep going. It's great. Okay, okay. So let's talk about the investment part first. So because you're not the only person with that question. So if you were saying to me, Jade, I want something other than a 401k because I want to be able to retire before 59 and a half. I'm with you. If you said, Jade, I just don't like the idea of all my eggs in one basket. Can I have something besides a 401k? I just love diversity. I would be right there with you. And I am. So yeah, once you have gone beyond a certain baby step, all of those things open up to you. And I want to talk about that.

1:53:19So to Ken's point, we talked about first, just save up. I'm going to walk you through the baby steps first. Just get$1 ,000 saved. Do you guys have any money saved anywhere? No, we just paid off the wedding. We just got married last weekend, actually. And after all that, I may have not done it the right way, but I did it. Everything was paid off. The only thing we owe is our debt now. Understood. But what do you have saved? And I have money in the bank. In the bank, I probably have around$4 ,000 to$5 ,000. That's like my, but my cushion is what I call it, is my cash I keep in my bedroom. I have just under$10 ,000.

1:53:53Oh, okay. So you got$15 ,000 total. Excellent. That's just what you need. If I don't have money, I get nervous and I freak out. I need money. Okay, well, I'm about to freak you out for a minute, but it's so that you can feel your best in the end. If I were in your shoes today, William, I would take 14 of that 15 and I would pay off your car. And I know I, yeah, just like that. And I know I just like swept the knee right there. He's breaking out. I know. The hives are, they're hitting his neck. I can see it on the other end. Yeah. I would do that because you what's ultimately going to get you what you want is to free up this income and the debt.

1:54:38That's just it's like a it's like a dead weight around your ankle. OK, and we got to clear that out. So if you did that today, right, and you cash flowed the other thousand because I always want you to have a thousand dollars saved. You need something. You would have three hundred dollars freed up today immediately. and then you could take that and throw it at keep throwing it at the debts right and how quickly could you have that twenty three thousand dollar uh car paid off right i could have that paid off like the middle of next year maybe three quarters away next summer if you both worked extra you could have it done by the end of this year uh yeah by the end of the year yeah 12 months yeah so and then you have that extra 700 and you and your wife could stack up you know three to six months of expenses, that's baby step three.

1:55:26And then after that, you're investing 15 % of your income into your 401k. And 15 % ain't too shabby. Like if you keep that going, you know, and then after that, we would say, hey, now let's take, you know, take a moment and focus on putting a little extra aside for your kids. This is another form of investing. It's called a 529. You can throw a little in there, whatever you decide. And then you can say, okay, let's start paying off our house because we value real estate, right? You wanted that diversity. So you start paying off your house. Most people who do this, William, pay their house off within seven to 10 years.

1:56:01Yeah, I was hoping to pay it off in 15. Okay, okay, great. I love that. If you do it in 15 years, again, love that for you. Now you've got a piece of real estate. Now you've got your 401k. And then if you say, hey, I kind of like this land deal. Let's keep saving up money and buy another piece of land. Or let's keep saving up money and I want to open another type of investment account. I just want to open one that's not tied to retirement to where I can invest the money and get to it whenever I want. You can do that. It's called a brokerage account. There's so many options for you, but you must walk through the steps in order to free up the income in order to do it.

1:56:35So that is the caveat. You need the income that you're now paying in payments. One step at a time, William. We believe in you.

1:56:51Thank you.

1:57:22Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 28 verse 12. the Lord will open to you his good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. Our quote of the day, this is kind of scary, from Stephen King. Not a Stephen King fan, but I'll go ahead and read the quote. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work. Oh, well, that's not, well, the hard work is scary. That's the scary part. I guess I should stipulate I don't know him and don't have any I just don't like scary stuff.

1:57:57I don't either. James, I'm that guy. When I'm in the movies with my wife and it's the previews and the horror comes up, I literally close my eyes. I do too. You do too? Listen, I don't want that stuff going in my brain. I do too and I haven't even seen Shawshank Redemption but he wrote Shawshank too so he has a lot of stuff outside the horror genre. I didn't not know that. I did not know that. I had him as just a horror guy and that's why I had to correct it. I don't know position against him. I don't like his work. Let's put it that way. Other than Shawshank, which I didn't know, James. Yeah, that's good.

1:58:28That's good. Actually, now I'm second guessing. Oh, yeah. It's based on his novel. Yep. Wow. That's a classic. James pulling the feather out of his hat today. Very impressive. Jenna is up in New York. Jenna, how can we help today? How you doing? I'm literally losing sleep over a decision I have to make by tomorrow. And what I'm struggling with is whether to give a friend$900 who hasn't responded to any of my calls or texts for like three years. And then she suddenly reached out and she's literally begging me for help to pay off a storage unit lien that she says needs to be paid by four days from now.

1:59:06And she said it holds all her worldly possessions. So I contacted the storage company directly today. and in doing so I learned she actually owes double that amount and I'm kind of uncomfortable with the variety of the details they gave me but it also I could get the money but it would be a financial hardship for me but I'm what I'm torn with is I'm feeling so guilty no what if this was me and because like what if this was me and like the way she worded it and stuff and but at the same time it would be a boundary you know okay jenna i just i love this i love that you called us because you need somebody that's objective jay and i have zero feelings on this deal uh so i'm going to ask you a couple questions we're just going to rewind when she first requested the 900 what did your gut what did your body what did your brain say well i just felt so sorry for her because she hasn't talked to me in three years.

2:00:09No, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Let me re-ask the question to make sure you get what I'm asking. About the$900, if she'd asked for$9, what would your brain have said? What would your body have said? $9, yeah. Okay, if it was$90, what would your brain and your body have said? Yeah. Okay, when she asked for$900, don't tell me all these other things. What did your brain and body say when you processed$900? It was hard because I'm trying to follow some advice from you and pay off my mortgage. Yes, and you just told us that$900 is a hardship that would be brought on yourself to help somebody pay off a debt, and this somebody's not even in your life.

2:00:59They haven't even returned your calls. They haven't even had the common decency to return a text. this is a hard no from me jenna can but she did return she reached out three weeks ago and then i got the text two days that's fine that's fine but can i ask you a question if i said today jenna it is your mission to go out into this world and earn 900 could you do it i think i could okay that's your answer because your friend can too and is and the question i also have is is this still your friend well you know we were close and she went through all these things for you know time's sake i won't go through it that she shared when she called me and she says she's getting a contract in the middle of the month and that she would pay me back.

2:01:57Oh, well, oh, kibosh. I'm gonna put the kibosh on this right now because here's the, here is what I will say. If you decide, cause this is your choice. If you decide to give her the money, you are giving it to her. You cannot lend her this money. You either give it to her out of the goodness of your heart and out of the detriment to your own budget and to your own life, or you don't do it at all. You cannot lend because if you lend, if you lend it to her, you are not helping her. You're just moving the debt. And now you're straining an already strained relationship. That's why I called because I needed to hear you say that because I knew that's what you would say.

2:02:36Yes, ma 'am. Listen, you didn't even tell us, nor do we need to know what are the other details that you found out from the storage facility. But it screams to me that you're not getting the full story from this fake friend this is not a real friend and i'm gonna say it real friends i just feel very not generous well jenna that's your problem on how you feel because i can tell you you're a generous person the fact that you're even considering helping this fake friend tells me you're generous but you've got to make a good decision for you not a good decision for her do you understand what I'm saying?

2:03:14Also, can I just throw out there, guilt and generosity don't live in the same house. They don't live in the same... You don't give out of guilt. You give out of the abundance of joy. I think she's manipulating you. This is a person who did not return your calls, did not return your texts three weeks ago when she knew she had a problem on the horizon. She thought, hmm, I better hit Jenna up and start acting friendly again. I think this smells, This stinks of manipulation. This is a fake friend. And I don't give nine cents to fake friends, much less$900. Yeah. Yeah. This is really, really think about that, Jenna, when you give, it should be out of a cheerful heart, not a guilty heart, not under compulsion, not under, oh, what are they going to think of me if I don't give?

2:04:07That is the exact, matter of fact, I would say wait until if you are still thinking about it, wait until all those feelings dissipate. And then if you can really look at this and go, I am just so grateful to help my friend. I have the money. I feel joy about it. I feel good about it. Do not give with a guilty spirit. That is not that is not generosity. That is guilt and shame. I got another thought just now, Jenna. How much does she actually owe? It was$1 ,800, right? Yeah,$1 ,800. Why is she coming? And that's the rent. so that means they won't take a lien if she pays it by the 23rd of the month but she told me tuesday but she still would owe lien fees and and late fees and then the first of the month she has two units she has a 900 payment and a 786 payment on the first of november so jenna so i don't feel like i'm helping her because if i give her this money then where's getting the next Yes, Jenna, I wish you could see our studio audience.

2:05:06They are shaking their head. You just came into the light. You actually just, you took us where I was trying to take you. In other words, the$900 isn't even going to solve the problem. And that tells me, and I hate to say this, Jade, but I'm old enough now. Do it. To have lived enough life to know that she's hitting several people up for$900. This stinks, as my grandmother used to say, to high heavens. There's an old phrase from the South. Jenna, this is bad news. And I am hoping to remove any unnecessary guilt. You are not a person who has done anything wrong. Thus, you should not feel guilt.

2:05:54But you're such a kind person, Jenna. i just keep hearing my mother say that's not christ-like so i just well that's another problem we're now arguing with our mother all right and yeah who's probably no longer here so so listen i guess i did need that non-objective opinion because i knew if i give her the money it's not a loan i'll never see it again i'm gonna say a final word you don't even know if she's gonna put it on the storage i got a final word on this jenna you know the reason you feel guilt is because you think that not wanting to pay her is wrong. That's actually right. And I'm going to flip it on you and say that if you give her this$900, that's wrong.

2:06:35Entitlement, baby. It's stupid. It's not good management of your money. Therefore, Jenna, it would be wrong for you to give her$900. It's my best shot. Stand up, is this, Ken? Where's my hat? Where's your hat at? Oh my goodness. Remember, folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.