Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is

12:56Dave Ramsey:Yeah, so what bothers me about this whole thing is not the detailed issue of whether he thinks credit cards are dead or not. I mean, that's just stupid. but um but the thing that bothers me is that you've married a guy that doesn't give a crap about your opinion and can't keep his word and that level of disrespect and dishonesty is going to be well beyond money issues it's going to come up in other places too you know and uh well i just stopped by on the way home from the office had one beer oh you told me you're coming straight home for dinner oh well i just want beer you know i do whatever the heck i want to do because i'm me that's what this guy is and uh by the way there's nothing wrong with stopping by and having a beer if you want but don't do that until your wife you weren't after you told your wife you weren't going to and that's this guy so that's my problem here is is the underlying lack of character uh and the underlying lack of respect for his new wife instead of treasuring you and wanting to serve you and love you and be there for you, he's all about, well, that's what I want to do.

14:14Rachel Cruze:Sounds like he's 14 years old. Yeah, because it's on his credit.

14:18Dave Ramsey:No, it's not his. Now it's ours. We got married Saturday, so now you're screwed up. Everything he screws up screws you up for the rest of your life as long as you're married. That's what's going to happen. so i mean i i think the core issue is is that that you guys have a a really weak relationship that's what's bothering me a whole lot more than just whether or not credit card is dead or not that's just a stupid statement but the way he's coming at this is like i told you i was gonna do one thing i changed my mind i don't care what you think this is what i want to do and i don't like that. I don't care.

14:56Dave Ramsey:It's what I want to do. And, you know, the way he's treating you is what's bothering me. So I don't want you to accept that. I want you to create a relationship crisis and call for marriage counseling immediately and see if you need to have this annulled or not. Because if the guy can't keep his word and he can't treasure you and honor you, you're going to have a long life, girl. This is not a good start. So, I mean, I'm going to create a say, I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because the guy I married promised me one thing. And now there's some other guy showed up here in my bed. And, you know, and so I'm going to I'm going to create a crisis in this situation because he thinks this is all OK, that it's OK.

15:44Dave Ramsey:He does this. But he's 33 and he's been doing it a long time. Yeah. He's been a single dog a long time. gets to do whatever he wants to. Nobody around he had to consider up until a year ago. Yeah.

15:56Rachel Cruze:And until Saturday when y 'all get married. So yeah, the urgency of this, Natalie, is, I mean, I would, I would bring in a third party as soon as possible, because if you let this linger, you guys will continue to create division in a new marriage that will continue on that way for a long time. And so if you can get this straightened out, at least get on the same page of value systems and goals together, working together, right? Like the big stuff. And then you can start doing the tactical things of like, does he keep a credit card or not? But like the big idea of, hey, we are one together and we are going to create a financial life that we both feel good about.

16:44Rachel Cruze:That's what's key.

16:45Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And that's what's broken. And that's That's like at the core of your marriage. Not that money's at the core of your marriage, but you're not agreeing about life. And you've been married three days. Hello.

17:00Rachel Cruze:It's supposed to be the honeymoon phase. All right, Natalie, you got some, y 'all got some work. But I'm hopeful for y 'all. I really am.

17:08Dave Ramsey:Well, it's some things are going to have to change or I'm not. So I'm hopeful that you force the change into this situation. and I'm going to have some people experiencing some pain over there so that we don't live a lifetime of pain. Robertson, Tucson. Hi, Robert. How are you?

17:28Rachel Cruze:Hey, good afternoon. Can you hear me all right?

17:30Dave Ramsey:Yes, sir. What's up?

17:32Rachel Cruze:All right. First off, I just want to say thank you for taking my call. Before I get into the finer details, my question is essentially if I have a good plan to prepare to exit the military in a few years.

17:43Dave Ramsey:Okay. When will you be leaving?

17:46Rachel Cruze:About two years. Call it summer of 2028.

17:50Dave Ramsey:Okay. And what will you be doing? What's your career going to be?

17:54Rachel Cruze:So I would like to pursue getting an MBA full-time utilizing the GI Bill.

18:00Dave Ramsey:That's not a career.

18:02Rachel Cruze:Okay. What are you going to do for a living?

18:06Dave Ramsey:What is it you want to do that's going to make you money and support you when the government's no longer writing you a check?

18:12Rachel Cruze:so after school i'm interested in either consulting or investment banking

18:18Dave Ramsey:okay do you and do you have you have an undergraduate in business i do sir okay so what i would be suggesting is you get lined up a job or a career field that you want to enter and as you approach summer of 28 you line up a job that pays more than you make now and you do your MBA as an adult MBA studying at night. Okay.

18:43Rachel Cruze:Can I just give you some numbers to see if that changes anything?

18:48Dave Ramsey:It doesn't. You've still got to go make a living.

18:51Rachel Cruze:What are your numbers, Robert? What is it? So I'm 26 years old. I'm single. I have no kids, and I also have no dad. Right now I'm making about$7 ,800 a month. My current net worth My current net worth Consists of about 60 grand in my DSP Good for you About 200 About 285 grand In a taxable brokerage About Two and a half grand In a Roth IRA I recently opened Excellent About four grand in cash Okay great So I mean that's part of the reason Why I'm exercising Like going full time Because I've Spoken to other veterans In my situation

19:28Dave Ramsey:They say that the full time program Is It's not a full time program You know An adult MBA at night is just as good, and you can get through it, and there's no reason for you to sit on that savings and burn it up just so you can be a student full-time. It's not a good plan. I would go get a job. It's what I would do.

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21:30Dave Ramsey:Well, tax season is upon us. If you want a free checklist and some free guides that will help you when you file, go to RamseySolutions.com slash taxes. Kendall is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Kendall. How are you?

21:43Rachel Cruze:Hi, I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call.

21:46Dave Ramsey:Sure. How can we help?

21:48Rachel Cruze:So I have a question. I have a mortgage that we got two years ago. We moved into our home. It was newly constructed. It went from a construction loan into a 10-year balloon. Oh, no. I know. At a 7.5%. And so I'm actually about to start nurse practitioner school this summer. And so we're looking at going ahead and refinancing now while the rates are lower. And we have a couple of different options that have been presented to us. And my husband and I are kind of having a disagreement. So we have gone through the Financial Peace University, but it was a few years ago. And so I know the answer is 30-year fixed.

22:35Dave Ramsey:No, 15-year fixed.

22:37Rachel Cruze:Well, 15-year fixed, yes. But we haven't been given that option. And so far, the only option we have is either a 5.25 % five-year arm or a 6.5 % 30-year-old.

22:49Dave Ramsey:A 15-year is 5.22 right now.

22:53Rachel Cruze:So we haven't gotten anybody to give us that.

22:57Dave Ramsey:Why?

22:57Rachel Cruze:I don't know why, because our credit is really good. Call Churchill Mortgage. Churchill Mortgage, okay.

23:05Dave Ramsey:That's the people we've endorsed for 30 years, and they do 15-year fix for Ramsey listeners every day. Certainly in Oklahoma City they do them for sure.

23:15Rachel Cruze:Yeah. So, yeah, we'll do that then because that's what we're – he's really leaning towards the 5.25 % arm. And I'm like, that does not sound good to me.

23:25Dave Ramsey:No, we're going out of the – we're jumping out of the fire into the frying pan, the frying pan into the fire. I mean, it's like one dumb loan into another dumb loan. No, an adjustable rate is going to tag you later. It's going to give you all kinds of trouble. And a fixed rate 15-year is cheap as that right now. I'm looking at the screen right here where the rates are, and it says 5.22 right now, this week. This week, okay. And so, yeah, that's what – Now, obviously, a 15-year payment is going to be more than your 30-year payment that that balloon is based on. Right. But it's not going to be that much more because you're saving 2 % by refinancing.

24:07Rachel Cruze:It'll be a little bit different, yeah.

24:09Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So what's your balance or the payoff?

24:13Rachel Cruze:So right now it's still at$229 ,000 as of our latest.

24:18Dave Ramsey:Okay. So it's like$4 ,500, let's call it$4 ,800, which is$400 a month in interest savings by refinancing from$7 ,200 to$5 ,200. Okay. Okay, and so, you know, roughly$400 a month, not quite, but almost$400 a month. That's your interest rate goes down, but then when you switch to a 15-year, it's going to go up, and so you're probably going to see an increase of$100 or$200 a month, but you're going to be in a much better long-term plan.

24:51Rachel Cruze:Right.

24:53Dave Ramsey:And with you going, you said you're going to nursing school?

24:58Rachel Cruze:Nurse practitioner, yeah.

24:59Dave Ramsey:Oh, really? Okay, that's awesome. Good for you.

25:02Rachel Cruze:Yeah, thank you. I'm excited. But it's definitely the second half of the program I will have to go part-time. So right now we make about equal, but when I go part-time it'll be...

25:15Dave Ramsey:What's your household income?

25:17Rachel Cruze:So right now we're making about, let's see, I make about$4 ,400. He makes about probably close to about$4 ,000 a month for him. So we make over$150 a year roughly.

25:34Dave Ramsey:Okay.

25:35Rachel Cruze:Yeah, about$150 a year.

25:36Dave Ramsey:And then when you graduate, it's going to go way up. Yeah. So way to go. I love it. Congratulations. Yes, it's worth it to bite the bullet and put a little strain on right now to get the right kind of mortgage in place and get rid of the high interest rate and the balloon, but don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.

25:56Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and make sure you guys are planning out, Kendall, when you go part-time that you guys have money saves, that if you need to, whether it's shifting lifestyle or have some money that's supplementing during that year or two that you have where you have to go part-time, so just be thinking of that. Yeah, plan that out.

26:11Dave Ramsey:Plan out how we're going to eat during that time.

26:13Rachel Cruze:Yeah, definitely.

26:15Dave Ramsey:Yeah, good question. Way to go. Well, you win the argument, and Churchill Mortgage can help you guys with that process, I promise you. Jeremy's in Kansas City. Hi, Jeremy. How are you? Hey, not too bad. Good. How can we help? I need some advice on how to build some funds while in steps four, five, and six. Okay.

26:39Rachel Cruze:What are the funds for? uh well we've got um i need to set aside money for a truck replacement or truck repairs in the future i've just replaced the truck so a lot of that has been wiped out and i need to rebuild that fund we also need some house repairs like painting the outside of the house replacing some

27:00Dave Ramsey:carpet i would like to have some retained earnings with my business and how do i do all of that while also putting money in retirement and extra money towards the house. I'm trying to do a lot of different stuff, and I'm not sure how to break it all up. Okay. Well, start with, we'll go with baby steps four, five, and six, which is where you are. You don't have any debt except the house, right? Correct. Good. Okay. So we're going to do 15 % of your income into retirement and something extra on the house. I don't know how much, depending on where all of these other things fall. When you start doing a detailed written plan, and we suggest using the EveryDollar app because that will help you do it the easiest, it has built into it the ability for you to have categories where you're setting money aside for upcoming expenses.

27:49Dave Ramsey:And so you set money aside for upcoming home repairs. You set money aside for an upcoming replacement of a truck. However, I kind of think the way I heard this, the truck might be your business. Right. Is this like you drive truck for a living? Well, I own a lawn care company. Oh, okay. Okay. But the truck itself is not your daily driver. It's what you use to pull the lawnmowers around. Yep.

28:17Rachel Cruze:Well, that's pretty much the only time I leave the house is to do lawn care,

28:21Dave Ramsey:and then if we go anywhere else, we usually take my wife's car. Yeah, okay. Okay. Well, the thing is, I mean, the work truck could easily be coming out of your work budget, and your work retained earnings should be at the office separate issue. So out of your profits, you set some aside for retained earnings, and that could be for equipment replacement of all kinds, mowers, weed eaters, whatever, down at the office, so to speak. And that's separate from your home budget. and then when you make a profit after having retained earnings and after having paid your taxes you bring that money home and put that money once a month is fine into your say into your checking account and then on your personal you would begin to set aside sinking funds and Rachel the every dollar app does a good job with the sinking funds right it does it's not my

29:14Rachel Cruze:favorite function honestly because we have a function called goals um in the every dollar And I like the goals better because it gives you an end date. So you can look, Jeremy, and say, okay, we want to have X amount saved for home repairs because we want to do some different things around the house. And we want to have that by December. And so the goals part of every dollar, that function, I like better than the sinking funds function personally because it gives you that end date and it calculates out how much you need to be saving per month. And then it goes into that goals fund.

29:47Dave Ramsey:Which is, in a sense, a sinking fund.

29:49Rachel Cruze:Yeah, the sinking fund in every dollar, the way it's laid out for me, I just personally don't like it as much. I like the goals category. But it's the same idea. It's just like having an end date versus an ongoing fund. And so I like having an end date. So you guys, yep, kind of watch that build up.

30:08Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you say, okay, I want$6 ,000 to do a home repair. That's right. And I want to do it in one year. That's$500 a month.

30:13Rachel Cruze:That's right. And in every dollar, it carries it each month over.

30:17Dave Ramsey:And builds up.

30:18Rachel Cruze:Yeah, it's very, very, very easy. So if you hold on the line, Jeremy, Christian will pick up. We'll get you a year of every dollar because you'll be able to like lay it out and actually see it. And it's great. But if you have things that are ongoing, you can use the sinking funds, that function. But I love the goals in every dollar. I think that's my favorite personally.

30:37Dave Ramsey:Guys, when you are going to win at anything, you have to do it very intentionally and you have to do it on paper before the month begins. So even like when you're getting married, if you want to win at marriage, you need to do pre-marriage counseling and plan how to be married. Your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your money, your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your career, your probability of success goes way up.

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32:36Dave Ramsey:Sarah is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

32:40Rachel Cruze:Hi, I'm good. How are you?

32:41Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

32:44Rachel Cruze:Well, I had a recent notice received from the IRS for tax debt from a year when I was married to my former spouse. I was unaware of this tax debt because I thought it had been addressed. And I run a really tight budget and I have my debt snowball very planned. And I'm wondering if I pivot from that to take care of this tax debt because it had that notice of lien. It hasn't been, there has not been a lien yet. And I realize - How much is it? It's$7 ,900.

33:19Dave Ramsey:What do you make?

33:20Rachel Cruze:I make$132 ,000.

33:22Dave Ramsey:Okay. And what year is this from?

33:26Rachel Cruze:2018. Okay.

33:28Dave Ramsey:And you were obviously married then. Mm-hmm. And you filed married filing jointly?

33:33Rachel Cruze:That year, yes.

33:34Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you were not aware that the taxes were not paid?

33:41Rachel Cruze:That's correct. We had settled in 2020, and the equitable distribution required that he pay that. and now he's incarcerated. So I think that his payment plan has ceased and they're coming after me for it.

33:58Dave Ramsey:Okay. I'm not positive if this will work, but before you decide to pay it, I want you to get in touch with one of our tax professionals at RamseySolutions.com that we endorse, the Ramsey Trusted. And I want you to ask, and I want you to tell them every detail of the situation and see if you qualify for a thing called the innocent spouse. Okay? Okay. So an example would be, and this sounds like it qualifies, but I'm not, you know, without getting into every stinking detail, I'm not positive. And even if we did, I'm not sure I would know. But the innocent spouse provision of the IRS code sounds like this.

34:41Dave Ramsey:A good example would be me. Okay? My wife is a full-time mom. I have a business, and we do married filing jointly. The number of minutes or hours she spends looking at our tax return is precisely three and a half seconds. Okay? So she signs it and assumes that me and the tax people that we're using know what the flip we're doing, right? And then later on, a tax bill comes up, and then she gets some notice in the mail like you did. Okay? Well, obviously, she didn't have anything to do with it. And so she could file under the innocent spouse provision and say, yeah, we filed married filing jointly.

35:25Dave Ramsey:Yes, I did sign the return, but I have no working knowledge of that stupid business or that stupid man. Okay? Okay, and so I'm innocent of this tax bill, and they will take it off of you and send it to him. And, of course, he's incarcerated, so they're not going to get paid, but that doesn't matter. What matters is it comes off of you. I think you're going to qualify for that. Okay. Based on what you told me. You see why? Because this is a thing. A, he was supposed to have taken care of it. And B, it was, well, long ago. But the circumstances were that you had no knowledge that the bills were not being taken care of properly, and you signed the return.

36:06Dave Ramsey:Correct. And that's why I'm thinking you're going to qualify for this innocent spouse provision, which is an$8 ,000 switch in this conversation. So that's the first thing I want you to do, because I'm like 80%, 90 % sure you're getting out of this. Okay. Now, if you don't, let's go back to your question, if I'm wrong. Okay. Then what do we do with the 7 ,900? We put it at the top of the list and we pay it off as soon as you can.

36:35Rachel Cruze:Okay. Now my debt snowball. It goes to the top of the debt snowball. Okay. And you knock it out as fast as you possibly can.

36:43Dave Ramsey:Or you go borrow$8 ,000 from the credit union and pay it off and then put that in the debt snowball. I don't care which. But you get rid of the IRS. You do not want these people in your life. They have unlimited power, no brains, and they charge all kinds of penalties and interest minute by minute by minute as you go along.

37:02Rachel Cruze:Yeah, it's the one exception of the debt snowball, Sarah. We always say if there is IRS debt, it gets moved to the very front. Okay. Okay. That was my question.

37:11Dave Ramsey:Or I would refinance it on a credit card or down at the credit union, one of the two. Okay. Get it cleared off. But don't put it on an IRS payment plan unless you have no other options. and then put it at the top of your debt snowball.

37:24Rachel Cruze:Okay.

37:25Dave Ramsey:I'm sure hope I'm right about the other thing, though, don't you?

37:28Rachel Cruze:I certainly do. I didn't know that existed. I do feel it was definitely out of left field because I've been doing quite well on my own with four kids, but that kind of threw me for a loop. Oh, that's so frustrating, Sarah. I'm sorry.

37:43Dave Ramsey:So you make$130 ,000 a year doing what?

37:47Rachel Cruze:I am a regional asset manager.

37:51Dave Ramsey:What is he in jail for?

37:54Rachel Cruze:Embezzlement.

37:55Dave Ramsey:No way. That makes the story even better about you being an innocent spouse.

38:01Rachel Cruze:It sure does.

38:02Dave Ramsey:The embezzlement boy is in jail. I mean, wow. That's got like drama on it. That's so, I'm so sorry y 'all been through that. And he's the father of your four kids?

38:13Rachel Cruze:Yes, sir.

38:14Dave Ramsey:I'm so sorry. How old are you?

38:17Rachel Cruze:I'm 41.

38:18Dave Ramsey:Man, you've been through some hell, but you are strong. Well done, Sarah. You are strong and you are smart. I'm proud of you.

38:24Rachel Cruze:Thank you. I'm doing the best I know how to do to take care of these kids. And God is good. And so we're just trying to make sure I honor him with the next right decision.

38:33Dave Ramsey:You've been very, very wise and very, very, wow. No, it's hard. That's amazing. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Go to our folk and they'll help you, I think. I'm pretty sure that's going to work. Hey, you know, sometimes there's free advice around here. It's valuable.

38:50Rachel Cruze:Could save her$8 ,000.

38:51Dave Ramsey:There you go.

38:52Rachel Cruze:Glad she called in.

38:53Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

38:54Rachel Cruze:Sending all the good vibes your way, Sarah. We should charge a commission, yeah.

38:59Dave Ramsey:All right, Jason's in New York. Hi, Jason. What's up with you?

39:04Rachel Cruze:Hey, Dave. How's it going, boss man?

39:06Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up with you?

39:09Rachel Cruze:I need your opinion, boss. I'm dealing with a situation at work, and I just wanted to see your expert opinion, because I feel like I'm spinning my wheels on paper. I have the dream job. I make$47 an hour. It's unlimited overtime. You have a pension, 401k, benefits, health insurance, everything. And every time I explain my situation to other people, they're like, oh, you're a fool. I would never quit that job. I don't care what happened. I would never quit. But I'm being isolated at work. I'm in a union environment. and every time I try to learn something new to progress, because of the union, I had to come to a department that I didn't really have a lot of experience in, which is dealing with the boilers and the powerhouse.

39:56Rachel Cruze:Traditionally, my background comes from laboratory analytical environment, so dealing with instrumentation in the lab, clean room environments, like centrifuges, incubators, blah, blah, blah. But because of the union, I had to come to this new environment where I'm dealing with boilers, and I thought, okay, all of these old technicians have been here for years. I'm not going to have any problems. They're going to pair me up with this guy, and I'm going to be going around learning things. That never happened. My manager never did any of that.

40:23Dave Ramsey:Yeah, they're trying to do as little work as possible. Yeah, okay. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. You need to be doing what you're designed to do, and it's not that. But you also can't do that rashly because you're getting paid very well.

40:38Rachel Cruze:Yes, sir.

40:38Dave Ramsey:And so, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse to stay stuck, but I would say, okay, what classes have I got to take on the side? What have I got to learn to be able to move into a field that I love with people that are, you know, easier to work with, more fun to work with, and I'm learning, and I make$50 an hour. You know, and so what's the target? And if it takes three years to work to that target, okay. But, yeah, if you just walk out and quit and go make$20 an hour, no, that's not smart. So I'm going to stay where I am.

41:14Rachel Cruze:We're looking for an exit plan, though.

41:16Dave Ramsey:I'm going to stay where I am and use that wonderful income to fund my exit. Yes, sir. That makes sense? So when you're working with lab stuff, if you were in a non-union environment, that sounds like something that would be paying in the$50 range to me.

41:35Rachel Cruze:Yes, sir, it would. And I would probably love it. I thought that this job was going to be it. I thought I was going to retire here, but I don't like it here.

41:42Dave Ramsey:Could you walk straight into that, or would you have to tool up to walk into that? I could walk straight into it. If you've got an offer at$50 an hour, quit and go take the$50. The only reason I turned it down, Dave, is because it was a contract assignment. It wasn't full-time. Okay, well, then you just hadn't found the one yet. But, yeah, design your exit that's sweeter than where you are. and exit.

42:26Dave Ramsey:Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys.

42:42Rachel Cruze:I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too.

42:59Dave Ramsey:And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

43:17Rachel Cruze:Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

43:25Dave Ramsey:Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

43:52Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz. News Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Mike is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Mike, how are you?

44:09Rachel Cruze:Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

44:11Dave Ramsey:What's up?

44:12Rachel Cruze:Hey, so I have been listening to you for a couple of years. I'm just starting to get serious now about the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two right now, and I want to get gazelle intense. I want to get my debt paid off. I want to get out of debt, but I can't really do any side work right now, and I can't really afford to make anything but bare minimum payments. So my question is— Why can't you do any side work? I was in a motorcycle accident back in September, so any of the skills I have outside of my normal job, I'm not really capable of doing right now. are you able to do your job yeah so i i work in sales right now um so i have i have a desk job which is no big deal um but any of my skills outside of that i could use to make more money or more so like working on vehicles doing yardware yard work um handyman kind of stuff like that

45:16Dave Ramsey:okay so that's off the table but lots of other side hustles i mean side hustles aren't all blue caller.

45:24Rachel Cruze:I'm aware of that. I just don't know what else to, what other side hustle I could take up other than that.

45:31Dave Ramsey:So what's your question about? Yeah. So I got a pretty decent size tax

45:38Rachel Cruze:return this year. It's about$4 ,400 and I can start up my own side business basically off of that. So I want to know if it's a smart idea to do that and get some extra income rolling in for doing that, or if I should just take the$4 ,400 and pay down some more of the debt. What's the business? The business would be like a trailer rental business. So people would kind of like a glorified U-Haul, essentially. You'd rent out a trailer for when people need it, kind of.

46:12Dave Ramsey:No, I wouldn't do that. I don't mind the idea of taking a little bit of the 4400 and using it to get something started. But it's more, let's just get your side hustle going as something that's white collar. But the problem is you could put this 4400 into a trailer and it never rents one time. And that's very possible, actually. So you've got to consider all your downsides, all the possible negative scenarios. And if they don't work, then this idea doesn't work. But if you had an idea that you said, okay, I'm going to take$400 or$500 of the$4 ,400 and I'm going to get something going that I'm going to immediately, the first month I'm going to make$500 back or I'm going to make$1 ,000 back immediately.

46:59Dave Ramsey:And worst case is I burned the$500. Well, we could try that. But this is a lot. Of course, the other thing is you need to adjust your W-2 because you don't need to be getting a tax return that high, right?

47:13Rachel Cruze:I've been listening to your show a lot, and I've heard you say that a bunch. I was curious what you were going to say when I said I got that big of a tax return. No, you weren't. You knew what I was going to say.

47:21Dave Ramsey:You need to adjust your W-4. Not your W-2, your W-4.

47:26Rachel Cruze:Mike, how much debt do you have? I have$12 ,000 in one car. I have$7 ,000 in another car. You married? About$35. What's that?

47:39Dave Ramsey:Are you married?

47:41Rachel Cruze:Yes, I'm married.

47:42Dave Ramsey:Oh, what does she make?

47:44Rachel Cruze:She makes about$1 ,000 a month. She's our church secretary. Do you guys have kids? No, no kids. I wonder if she could be doing something for more than$1 ,000 a month. How many hours does she work? Right now, she just bumped her hours up to about, I think it's going to be 32 a week.

48:06Dave Ramsey:Okay, this is an absolutely horrendous job.

48:10Rachel Cruze:It's a sweet job. We do love church secretaries.

48:13Dave Ramsey:We love church secretaries, but we shouldn't be abusing them by underpaying them. So, no, she needs to go get a job where she makes three times that immediately. What do you make?

48:24Rachel Cruze:Okay. I make$77 a year.

48:27Dave Ramsey:Okay. And in sales. And that's your base?

48:32Rachel Cruze:I am straight salary. I don't make commission.

48:36Dave Ramsey:In sales?

48:38Rachel Cruze:Correct, yes.

48:39Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. How long have you been selling? I've been in sales for probably since I just got out of high school,

48:47Rachel Cruze:and I've been with this company for about a year. Are you good at it? Yeah, I think so. Well, I wonder if there's a job opportunity, because when you're commission-based, selling something else, selling something else on the side

49:00Dave Ramsey:that's not competitive. Selling is selling. And I mean, if there's someone you could work for on the weekends selling and it's a product or a service that you're excited about and that you think is valuable, you know, you could probably make as much as you're making now on your side hustle if you got into something that was sweet. And again, you believe in, and it's a high-quality product, a good value, and you can make the calls on the weekends or evenings. Man, you can run your income way up as a side hustle. That's what I would do instead of buying a trailer or putting it in the yard and hope somebody rents it.

49:43Dave Ramsey:That definitely would go do that. Yeah. And really, she's being severely underpaid.

49:49Rachel Cruze:Well, he said she just bumped up her hours to 32, so she may have just been doing 20.

49:53Dave Ramsey:Still severely underpaid. Yeah, that's true. $24 ,000 a year, nobody dancing in the streets. I'm just saying. So, you know, if she was making$2 ,000 a month because she was working halftime, the equivalent, you know, that's still not. Yeah, there's admin skills.

50:11Rachel Cruze:See if there's like a dentist office or something, you know, and you could go and do some admin or, you know, whatever. Just something creative with those skills that, yeah, easily could be making double.

50:21Dave Ramsey:Yeah, we have assistants and admins and people all through the building, and we don't have anyone making anywhere near that low an income. Not even close. We wouldn't be able to attract anybody if we did. So, yeah, I think that's where I would go. Wow. Wow. Riley is in Maryland. Hi, Riley. How are you?

50:42Rachel Cruze:Good. How are you?

50:44Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

50:46Rachel Cruze:So, my husband and I are expecting our first baby. Yay! We're very excited. I am really anxious to get to baby step six.

51:02Dave Ramsey:Good.

51:04Rachel Cruze:So technically we're in baby step two. We have a$10 ,000 car loan that's Russell Milt alone. And we do have that in our savings.

51:14Dave Ramsey:We actually have about$43 ,000 in our savings, plus$19 ,000 in a CD. And do you have any debt other than the car?

51:25Rachel Cruze:No, that's it. No credit card debt. What would be wrong with paying it off today?

51:33Rachel Cruze:I feel like I remember hearing you say before that...

51:37Dave Ramsey:When you're pregnant and you're broke, but you're not broke, you have$70 ,000.

51:42Rachel Cruze:Okay.

51:43Dave Ramsey:And if you pay off$10 ,000, you'll have$60 ,000.

51:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah. I think you're okay. And then you're going to go on to Baby Step 4 tomorrow. Yeah. Because your Baby Step 3 is done.

51:53Dave Ramsey:Yeah, absolutely.

51:54Rachel Cruze:Yeah, y 'all are doing great.

51:56Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you need to have Baby Step 3 covered if you're in stork mode, which is where you are. But you're there. I mean, you write a check, you're debt free, you allocate some of the rest of this money for your emergency fund, and then you've got some left over.

52:09Rachel Cruze:Yeah, we do say when you are expecting it on Baby Step 2 to pause everything and sell a compile money because that's what we assume you only have Baby Step 1 done and you just have$1 ,000, which you want more of that, more money when you're having a baby. But you guys have plenty of savings, so you're good.

52:23Dave Ramsey:Because you're not really working the Baby Steps. You're working your plan, and we're going to change it and put you on our plan.

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53:54Dave Ramsey:Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, you don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every month, builds you a personalized plan to get out of debt and become wealthy. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. The average is over$3 ,000. You'll feel like you got a raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free. Did I mention it's free in the App Store or Google Play? Josh is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hey, Josh, what's up? Hey, how are you, Dave?

54:28Dave Ramsey:Thanks for having me on. Sure. How can we help?

54:30Rachel Cruze:So I recently went – I'm a lawyer, and I recently went on my own professionally. I'm 30 years old. And during that time, I was exploring kind of other things because I had a little bit of downtime. And I applied to be on a popular political debate show on YouTube. And I didn't think I would actually be asked to go on it, but then I was. and then realizing that I still have a lot to learn professionally. I was speaking to somebody and they are basically now I've done three rounds of interviews to get a job at this other law firm. And now they're both happening at the same time. And I'm kind of concerned that if I go and I do this political debate show, that they will not want to hire me or retract an offer or something because I say something that they disagree with.

55:25Rachel Cruze:So I was wondering if you had any advice on how to weigh that.

55:27Dave Ramsey:Do you want to work with someone that has a different value system than you? Well, no. I mean, if they withdraw the offer because they disagree with you, they have a different value system than you. Yeah, that's true.

55:43Rachel Cruze:But I guess really the reason that I called is because, you know, we're expecting our first child and, you know, I want to have a regular income. You know what I mean? And so it feels like, you know, should I, you know, if I agree with some of their values but not other of their values, do you know what I mean? And so it's just kind of like I'm a little bit worried about what's going to be.

56:02Dave Ramsey:No, I mean, let me just give you an example. Okay, let's just make up an example. Let's say that you went on a debate show and you agreed with everything in the Biden administration and you're left-leaning or a progressive or whatever we want to label that. And you take that position on the debate. and somebody says, oh, I wouldn't ever hire anybody that does that because I'm a pro-Trump guy. You don't want to work there anyway. You'd be miserable. Yeah.

56:33Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I think that you're right. And don't worry. That's not what I'd be saying. Well, I don't care. I don't care. It works both ways, right? It works both ways.

56:41Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

56:42Rachel Cruze:Or I'll say this, though, is that to have an employer, I mean, I guess if it was, I guess something that you would disagree with. Because I'm like, I know our team. We have a thousand people. And we're not all on the same political spectrum. I mean, there's people that vote all different ways here. And so we would never fire someone for that.

57:02Dave Ramsey:No, I'm kidding.

57:03Rachel Cruze:Oh, Lord.

57:04Dave Ramsey:Yes.

57:05Rachel Cruze:Yes. No, we would not fire someone for their political.

57:09Dave Ramsey:No, no. And we would not hire you because we saw a YouTube thing.

57:14Rachel Cruze:But I also, Josh, would not... I don't know if it's that big of a gamble. because I don't know from a law perspective, I don't know what that entails in that career. I wouldn't put my career in jeopardy, though, in general, right, for a YouTube show.

57:30Dave Ramsey:Yeah, for real.

57:31Rachel Cruze:So there's a part of me that I'm like.

57:33Dave Ramsey:That's a good point, too.

57:37Rachel Cruze:From like a legal perspective, I don't know what you would.

57:39Dave Ramsey:No, I don't think. I'm not worried about the law. It's a matter of, you know. But here's the thing. If you have someone that you ascertain is so extreme on one side or the other that they will not entertain someone that thinks differently than them. Yes. And they don't want to. You don't want to work there anyway. That's right. That's right. Okay. Right. And so, I mean, we laugh and say, you know, Rachel and I graduated from Tennessee. And, you know, we laugh and say we've accidentally hired a few Alabama fans. You know, I mean, so. But, you know, I mean. Right. But we. Oh, wait a minute. There's Bobby.

58:11Dave Ramsey:He's got his Alabama hat right there in the booth right now. And so, you know, we hired him anyway. And he's been here like a decade or more. We just now discovered he's Alabama guy.

58:20Rachel Cruze:Get it off the camera.

58:21Dave Ramsey:But that's the thing. So that's the kind of thing. That's the way we think about it around here is we just we're not going to all get in a big fight and we're not going to all spend our lives being mad about that. But but but and so I don't want to work for a firm lawyer or otherwise that feels that way. Yeah. On the other hand, aside from that, I also don't know what the upside is. What is gained by going on this? There's all downside and no upside. What is it you get for doing it? Are they giving you$200 ,000 to appear? No. And you're putting a digital tattoo out into the world that you're going to have to live with.

59:05Dave Ramsey:And we know how that feels.

59:09Rachel Cruze:That's our job.

59:10Dave Ramsey:Yeah, we put a digital tattoo out every day.

59:13Rachel Cruze:No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, I mean, it's – but – But something that polarizing in today's world, I'm like, eh, I don't know. Why? Just not – yeah, it's not worth it.

59:23Dave Ramsey:You know, I mean, like, for instance, during the presidential election, we reached out to Kamala Harris' camp and offered to interview her. And we also reached out to President Trump's camp and offered to interview him. She declined, and he took us up on it, and we did the Trump interview. and I endorsed Trump, but he's not Jesus. I don't worship at his feet, which also upsets the Trumpers. So, you know, I mean, it's, golly, some of you people really need to slow down a notch. But that's kind of where, who I would want to be around, in other words. And so somebody that's willing to listen to both sides, kind of curious, and I like debates and that kind of stuff.

1:00:04Dave Ramsey:But really, it's got nothing to do with your career. That had to do with my career. It had to do with the Ramsey brand and what we're doing here. And, you know, this is what we do for a living. But what you're doing for a living is law. And doing this has nothing to do with that. So there's no upside. So I probably wouldn't do it for that reason. So, yeah, there's no upside. You know, I remember the first time I heard something like that, Rachel, that line of thinking, that decision-making paradigm. I was in a sales class. I was 18 years old. And now this is 1978.

1:00:41Rachel Cruze:Oh, take us back, Dave. Okay. No, I mean, it's a different world.

1:00:44Dave Ramsey:There were not non-smoking sections.

1:00:48Rachel Cruze:Oh, yeah.

1:00:49Dave Ramsey:There was just not non-smoking. Every restaurant you could smoke in.

1:00:53Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Every airplane. That was into the 90s. Every plane.

1:00:57Dave Ramsey:Every airplane you could smoke in. Okay. That's weird. So smoking was, like today, nobody does smoke. I mean. Right. It's unusual to see somebody with a cigarette today. But in those days, everybody smelled like cigarettes. But that guy in that sales thing, he said, okay, how many of you smoke? And most people raised their hands. I didn't smoke. I never have, but I'm not mad about it. I just never did. And he said, how many people smoke? And a bunch of people raised their hand. He goes, how many people in here think you've made a sale because you smoked? No one raised their hand. And he said, how many of you think you might have lost a sale because you smoked?

1:01:32Dave Ramsey:A bunch of people raise their hand. Oh, interesting. That's a valid thing.

1:01:35Rachel Cruze:Because someone that doesn't smoke doesn't want to be around to smell like it or something.

1:01:38Dave Ramsey:So the point is there's only downside. There's no upside. Yeah. Same thing here. What good is going to come of this other than you get to voice your opinion and have the thrill and the fun of a debate?

1:01:50Rachel Cruze:I was going to say, have a moment of kind of an ego thing of like, oh, that's cool. They asked me to be on this panel.

1:01:55Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

1:01:55Rachel Cruze:Yeah. So it's not worth it.

1:01:56Dave Ramsey:I probably would pass. I would too. But for different reasons. And you have a new baby coming, Josh, too.

1:02:02Rachel Cruze:You know what he means? I'm like, just enjoy your life. Yeah. Don't muddle it.

1:02:09Dave Ramsey:I would not turn down the debate because of future employment, though. I would turn it down because I don't know if there's an upside.

1:02:19Rachel Cruze:Yeah, that's fair.

1:02:20Dave Ramsey:I don't see any upside.

1:02:21Rachel Cruze:That's fair.

1:02:22Dave Ramsey:That's why I would turn it down. And I'm tying back to what you said a minute ago. That's how I got on that.

1:02:26Rachel Cruze:Yeah. side note did you watch did y 'all watch the JFK love story

1:02:30Dave Ramsey:the series

1:02:32Rachel Cruze:anyways based in the 90s obviously because JFK Jr it's about when he died anyways they are smoking all through that series but I reminded I was like it's so 90s like you know really okay

1:02:46Dave Ramsey:yes yes I remember when they had no smoking sections which I always thought was funny yes like the smoke couldn't jump across the section

1:02:53Rachel Cruze:but they're all smoking in the restaurants and stuff and I was like It's the same stupid thing.

1:02:58Dave Ramsey:It's like you couldn't go down the aisle in the grocery store because a little COVID might jump on you. It was the same thing.

1:03:03Rachel Cruze:Same dumb thing.

1:03:05Dave Ramsey:It's in the air. The smoke is in the air. It's going over the whole restaurant.

1:03:09Rachel Cruze:I'm going to go take a smoke break. I'll be back.

1:03:28Thank you.

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1:05:35Rachel Cruze:Today's question comes from Samantha in Wisconsin. She said, my husband has two daughters and I have two sons from previous marriages. We married later in life when our kids were already adults. How do we structure our wills to make sure that the living spouse is taken care of first, but the children still get their fair share when the spouse passes? We want to ensure that our kids are left with their share of each parent's estate, but we also don't want the surviving spouse to lose any assets. Would getting a life insurance policy for the value of 50 % of assets be a good option to leave to our individual children so both sides get a fair inheritance.

1:06:13Oh.

1:06:15Dave Ramsey:I would not do life insurance.

1:06:16Rachel Cruze:No.

1:06:17Dave Ramsey:No. What you can do is pretty simple, and you need to sit down with an estate planning attorney, and you've got to map out the numbers as much as the concept. But often what we see people do in this situation is the money is left in a trust. the terms of the trust are that the surviving spouse gets to live out of and use the trust upon death the trust is split into the two trusts um or you could have two trusts at death either one and and both of them are designed to support the surviving spouse and then upon death of that spouse, then each of your two kids get theirs, yours, his two kids get his, and so forth.

1:07:06Dave Ramsey:So you can just, and if it's in a trust, it can't go anywhere. So if in a worst case scenario, so let's just say, okay, you've amassed between the two of you a million dollars in a 401k, okay, and you die. that money's left into a trust and the money um and your wife is left behind and she gets the benefit of that trust as long as she's alive and so she gets the income off of it and she's allowed to use the money under certain circumstances other than just the income medical event or something like that and the house could go into a trust and go into the same trust everything could go into that same trust and she gets to use all of that while she's alive.

1:07:52Dave Ramsey:So if that million dollars creates a, you know, a hundred thousand dollar a year income, she gets to use all that. And she could use some of the million if under certain circumstances that you decide in the trust, but she can't just, uh, change and decide I'm going to leave the whole million to my kids and cut out your kids.

1:08:11Rachel Cruze:Could she use all the million and there's nothing left for the kids?

1:08:14Dave Ramsey:Well, if you put it in the trust that she was able to use it, she could use it up. But if you left the value of the house in there and the money in there in one lump sum, and she's got the benefit of that, she's going to be fine. Or you've got the benefit of that, you're going to be fine. Even if she remarried, okay, she still only gets the benefit of that and is bound by the terms of the trust. She can't, if it's only in a will, she could change the will and say, I'm not going to leave it to those kids.

1:08:47Rachel Cruze:But upon the death of this, in this scenario, the dad, his grown kids don't get anything until the wife dies.

1:08:54Dave Ramsey:Okay. Exactly.

1:08:55Rachel Cruze:Or you could say they get half,$200 ,000 and the rest of it goes into a trust. And then when she dies, they get the rest of it. Exactly.

1:09:02Dave Ramsey:They get their portion of the rest of it. But the trust cannot be undone by the surviving spouse. Like they get remarried and the new stepfather is a jerk and he wants to scarf all the money and open a pizza place, right, or something. And he uses up all the kid's inheritance.

1:09:20Rachel Cruze:Yeah, totally.

1:09:21Dave Ramsey:And it's all stepfather scam artist guy, right? And so you've got a Cinderella story, right? And not the good part, the evil stepmother's part of Cinderella, right? So if it's just in a will, she could change the will and cut out the guy's kids that died. But if it's all set up in a trust, it's very difficult to do that. So I think you can sit down and just say, okay, what are the terms of the trust? How much goes into the trust? And the terms could easily be you get to live off the income and you can use some of the principle for various reasons and so forth. and be very careful about crazy stuff in there because it comes back to bite you.

1:10:07Dave Ramsey:It doesn't age well. Like 30 years later, the crazy thing just looks like crazy. 30 months later, it's kind of like, oh, I kind of understand why he did that. But so here's an example. Don't make it complicated. Okay, they're 50 years old and he dies and she's got the house in a trust, but she can never sell the house. That would be crazy. because she's going to live till 80, 30 freaking years. The house is already 20 years old. So you're going to have her in a 50-year-old house? No, she needs to be able to sell that house. But if she does, the replacement house has to go into the trust or something like that.

1:10:40Dave Ramsey:But you see, you have to give it some flexibility in there.

1:10:43Rachel Cruze:For that person.

1:10:44Dave Ramsey:You can never do that. That stuff doesn't age well. You know, you look out there 30 years and you've got a mess on your hands. But the answer to the overall question is get with an estate planner And I think you can fix all of this with a trust or trusts, however you want to set it up. And that's a good way to get at it. John's in Myrtle Beach. Hey, John, how are you?

1:11:04Rachel Cruze:I'm good. I appreciate you guys taking my call today. Thank you. Sure. So I have an issue, a difficult time talking finances with my fiance without it, you know, turning somewhat emotional. So I'm looking for good practical suggestions and how I can inspire her to kind of look at money differently along with me. Don't get me wrong.

1:11:32Dave Ramsey:How old are you all?

1:11:34Rachel Cruze:35.

1:11:35Dave Ramsey:Is the wedding set, the date?

1:11:38Rachel Cruze:No, sir, it's not. Part of the reason is I'd like to have the same money goals, or at least similar enough that this won't be an ongoing fight.

1:11:46Dave Ramsey:Yeah, it needs to be or don't get married. Yeah. Yeah. It's the number one cause of divorce. It's the number one cause of marriage misery. It's constantly being at odds with your spouse.

1:11:58Rachel Cruze:Yeah. What does the fight look like? What's the conflict look like? What do you bring up and what does she push back against? Sure. So I've been having at the baby steps on my end with my debt. And, you know, I'll ask her sometimes, you know, how is your credit cards looking? Have you been paying on them? What's your contribution to the household going to be like soon? Because I take all the response. We do live together. We've been together 10 years. We've been together a long time. We do have two kids. So more or less, we're married. We just haven't done the paperwork. So as we start to discuss these things and I start to ask her questions, she gets emotional.

1:12:44Rachel Cruze:She gets upset. Why? Almost as if, well, I think she feels guilty, and I'm not sure, but she does get upset. Sometimes she'll cry, and we don't yell or bicker back and forth. I just think that she feels a little guilty, and habits are hard to break, and maybe she may feel that I have resentment maybe towards her, which I don't, and I try to be careful with how I speak to her and things, then. But it becomes difficult to have the conversations when she's upset. So usually the conversation kind of dies at that point. Oh, man. Okay. Well, the reality is, yeah, you, I mean, you guys are, you have two kids together.

1:13:30Rachel Cruze:You've been living together for 10 years. You're married. So, so regardless of, we can't, yeah, we can't get on the same page or not. You are. So like, just go ahead and tie the knot. It's happening. It's not like you were dating into Josh is number one you the way you're phrasing the questions is a lot of pointing at her you know what are you doing are you paying on the bill you you you you it needs to be back on you John of hey here's what I'm feeling this is the story that I'm making up in my head that you feel like that there's resentment um towards me um I'm making up a story that you are shut down emotionally and if I press any harder in the conversation you're going to continue to shut down and we're not going to get anywhere like right like to to be able to explain where you are is going to be really really important in this and she's gotta i mean girl she's 35 too yeah okay we gotta either get into like a good counselor and dig some of all that stuff up of what's going on but her way of doing conflict uh not not great not great so i would suggest good pre-marriage counseling

1:14:38Dave Ramsey:Now, or marriage counseling, and get married immediately. I mean, quit it. Jeez, man.

1:15:07Dave Ramsey:Raven is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Raven. How are you?

1:15:11Rachel Cruze:I'm good. How are you?

1:15:13Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:15:15Rachel Cruze:So my mom is financially irresponsible and depends financially on her mom. And I'm just kind of worried that at some point she's going to be depending on me. How do I kind of prepare for that and set boundaries when I need to about it?

1:15:32Dave Ramsey:How old are you?

1:15:34Rachel Cruze:I'm 22. Okay.

1:15:37Dave Ramsey:I wouldn't worry about it right now. Okay. I really wouldn't. I'd worry about something else. There's other stuff to worry about. How old is your mother?

1:15:45Rachel Cruze:Yes. She's about 50.

1:15:49Dave Ramsey:Okay. She doesn't work?

1:15:51Rachel Cruze:Yes. No, she doesn't work at all. Is she married? No. No. Is she disabled in some way? so she um she says she is having like an undiagnosed disability so she hasn't been able to get it diagnosed or you know get disability for it um so um okay don't laugh is it like like a like a no like a no no no i'm telling dave not to laugh raven you can laugh i'm sorry i thought we called that lazy like an immune is it like an immune disorder like what It is. It's an autoimmune disease. That could be real. Like inflammation, you guys. Has she had?

1:16:34Dave Ramsey:Okay. So anyway, back to your question. No, I am very suspect of that, to say the least. The, I think the thing is this. Number one, I would pick up Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries, and read it. Okay. And that begins to teach you and prepare you intellectually for how difficult it's going to be to set boundaries with her. No one has ever told her no.

1:17:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

1:17:11Dave Ramsey:And you're going to be the first one, and it's going to be real difficult. Okay? So I just want you to go build a wonderful life for you. and then if you've got millions of dollars and you want to help her out with some groceries or something that's fine but what you don't want to do is to take her on as your responsibility because she's not your responsibility she's a 50 year old woman that won't work okay and so um uh and so and she had every opportunity to do that and that's what you're observing You called it financial irresponsibility. You didn't call it a medical issue. And you were right.

1:17:51Dave Ramsey:So anyway, when the time comes and you have to set a boundary, I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's going to be one of the most painful things you've ever done in your life. Yeah. Because anyone that tells your mother no does not get a good reaction from your mother.

1:18:08Rachel Cruze:No. and my grandma is coming up on age, and we will kind of have that discussion. So I'm feeling like it's going to come up pretty close, and I don't know.

1:18:19Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, when your granny passes and your mom has to figure out how to do life, you're just going to have to tell your mom, I'm 23, and I can't do this for you. You're like the old woman. You're supposed to figure this out.

1:18:30Rachel Cruze:I can't do it.

1:18:33Dave Ramsey:Today, you don't have the option of helping her. You don't have the money. but let's say it's 10 years from now and you're 32 and you but you've put together a million dollars listening to the stuff we teach and you're able to help but still you don't you're not required to help you still are going to have to tell her now in any case where she actually has to take responsibility for her life she's going to be unhappy with the people that tell her that so that's the thing i want you to prepare you for there is no trick phrase there is no amount of money, there is no angle or strategy that you can take that's going to make her not be pissed.

1:19:13Dave Ramsey:There's a hundred percent chance your mom's going to be pissed. So you might as well get ready for that. Okay. The only way she's not going to be is if you become as dysfunctional as your grandmother and you take in this woman who won't work and you continue to feed her and take care of her and she does to do nothing more. and she walks around whining, acting like there's something wrong with her and there's not. She's just lazy. And so that is a disability, but it's a different kind. And so that's what you're facing. And I'm sorry for that. But anytime you have to set boundaries with a boundaryless person, the thing you have to brace yourself for is the emotional pain because you're going to be told how horrible a daughter you are and you're not.

1:20:02Dave Ramsey:You're going to be told you're crazy and you're not. You're going to be told everything's wrong with you and you're not. But you're still going to feel those arrows as they come at you because they sting. They hurt. And so just get ready for that. There's no way to avoid it except to join in the crazy talk and join in the crazy land. And we're not going to join in crazy land. And so the only other then the thing that's going to happen is a hundred percent chance your mom's not going to react well for that. She's a she's a travel agent for guilt trips and she's going to pull out every card in the book to get, you know, get money out of you and everything else and anything she could.

1:20:41Dave Ramsey:Well, I raised you. Where were you when I was feeding you? Well, that's like your job. You had a kid. That's where I was. And so all that. And so. But there's no amount of talking. There's no amount of words that are going to fix this lady until she comes to herself and says, I'm ready to get better. I'm ready to get better at this thing called life. And you can't make her do that at 22. And I don't want you to worry about it another day. I do want you to brace yourself for when the time comes, it's going to be painful. She's not going to go well. So pick up Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries. You will go, oh, that's me.

1:21:22Dave Ramsey:I know that guy. That's who that is. That's how that works. Jay is with us. Jay's in Denver. Hi, Jay. How are you?

1:21:30Rachel Cruze:Hello. I'm as good as the Academy, Dave. Thank you for having me.

1:21:33Dave Ramsey:Sure. What's up?

1:21:36Rachel Cruze:I have been raised with a silver spoon my whole life. I never had to work a day. And I am realizing that my trust was about to end in about a year, next May or June. And I have never worked. as much as I start to my college, which is also going to end in May next year. I'm starting to be an accountant, and I'm getting really nervous. So you're getting a degree in accounting? Yes.

1:22:06Dave Ramsey:Okay. And how old are you?

1:22:09Rachel Cruze:23.

1:22:10Dave Ramsey:Okay. And were you left the trust fund because you have a disability or a special need?

1:22:20Rachel Cruze:um no okay no no i i i have been given a trust fund uh through my background i understand just

1:22:27Dave Ramsey:your parents were wealthy but it wasn't because you had some kind of a need it was just they were wanting to bless you with the money yes okay that's fine i just want to make the distinction so okay so the money ran out and now you're going to be like an adult and get a job huh

1:22:42Rachel Cruze:yeah i i am and my only my main worry is that i my work ethic i'm really worried about uh my work ethic and especially never had had worked before um if employees are if you've got a work ethic or you wouldn't be getting out of school

1:23:01Dave Ramsey:you don't graduate and have no work ethic you have a work ethic that calls you to study and go to class that's a work ethic You did not work at a job yet, but so have a lot of people that went to college that didn't work when they were in college. That's not that unusual. So I love that you're worried about it. When do you graduate? About May of next year. Cool. Okay. So what would be wrong with taking a job right now and working like all the time?

1:23:30Rachel Cruze:See, that's the thing. I'm an F1 legal resident, so I'm only allowed to get certain jobs that are related to campus. And so I have been applying to jobs, and I've been contacting people with my resume. We're just trying to get my confidence built by having a job, by holding down a job. I'm doing that, but I'm still really nervous.

1:23:55Dave Ramsey:You're able to start a business on the side, aren't you? Exactly. Yeah, go buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves.

1:24:08Dave Ramsey:you know get a lawnmower go buy a lawnmower and start cutting grass that is that legal of course it's legal to cut grass and it's definitely legal to blow leaves an f1 i have no idea okay no idea what you're facing but the thing the the antidote to what you're worried about is step right straight into it headfirst i'm worried i don't have work ethic So go prove you have one.

1:24:33Rachel Cruze:Go work at the bookstore at the university campus. Just go do something. Go work all the time. Yeah. And you'll be fine, Jay. I think, honestly, there's a lot of 23-year-olds that graduate college, and they've never really worked before. And they had to get their first adult job and all of it. So I think it's become dramatized in your head. I think you're going to do fine. But just, yeah, start working somewhere now.

1:25:10Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Tiffany is with us in Chicago. Hi, Tiffany. How are you?

1:25:26Rachel Cruze:Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

1:25:28Dave Ramsey:Great. How can we help?

1:25:30Rachel Cruze:um so the reason why i'm calling in is because i got accepted into an ivy plus uh school for a very competitive very niche graduate program and i was offered a partial scholarship um and so even with the scholarship i'm looking at about a hundred thousand dollars a year for student loans my issue is um where i live currently is like a hub for what i want to do so like if i was working tech, but I lived in Silicon Valley. But my issue is I can't move due to the nature of my husband's job. So if I don't get a job here, I can't get a job anywhere, if that makes sense. And so now that I've gone to this process and I'm accepted and everything's kind of sinking in, I just don't know if it's feasible to take on so much debt for something that isn't exactly guaranteed, if that makes sense.

1:26:31Okay.

1:26:33Dave Ramsey:So your graduate degree would be in what?

1:26:37Rachel Cruze:So it'd be in the medical field.

1:26:40Dave Ramsey:Be specific.

1:26:43Rachel Cruze:So it would be in prosthetics. Okay.

1:26:46Dave Ramsey:And so this is a master's? Yes. So a two-year program.

1:26:53Rachel Cruze:Yes, that's correct.

1:26:55Dave Ramsey:Okay. And it's local to you. I thought you said you were in Silicon Valley. My screen says you're in Chicago. I'm so confused.

1:27:04Rachel Cruze:No, no, no. So I'm in Chicago, but the nature of my job, it's huge here in Chicago. So it's like the equivalent of if I was working tech in Silicon Valley. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yes.

1:27:19Dave Ramsey:Okay. Yeah. So you're in the geographic location to do this. I got you.

1:27:25Rachel Cruze:Yes, that's correct. All right. And your husband's job is in Chicago.

1:27:28Dave Ramsey:And what does your husband make?

1:27:30Rachel Cruze:So he's a doctor.

1:27:32Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you're doing what today?

1:27:37Rachel Cruze:Oh, I am an office manager.

1:27:42Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. So you're going to enter a completely different field due to getting this master's. I don't know much about that field. Is a master's required to enter that area? Yes. Why? Is there licensing? Yeah.

1:28:00Rachel Cruze:So there's a lot of like board certifications, licensing, that sort of thing involved.

1:28:04Dave Ramsey:And the licensing requires a master's?

1:28:07Rachel Cruze:Mm-hmm.

1:28:08Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Well, all I can tell you is in general, we have never in 30 plus years of being on the air told someone to take out a student loan and we're not going to start with you. So no, I would not do it. But then I have to stop and think about, okay, what are some workarounds to get you to where you want to go? So and in general, if you can get the license, if you get the master's, you can pass the licensing, regardless of where the master's came from. And if you get the licensing and the certification, you can get the job regardless of where the master's came from. There are almost zero jobs in America that they hire you based on where you went to school.

1:28:55Dave Ramsey:They hire you based on your knowledge and your capability that you get by becoming educated. But regardless of where you went to school, like you said, your husband's a doctor. No one walks into his office and says, hey, doc, where'd you go to school before they ask how if he can help them or not?

1:29:12Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And my issue with that, too, is so there's only four schools that do what I want to do. And I applied to all of them, and I only got into one.

1:29:23Dave Ramsey:Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm going to go$200 ,000 in debt.

1:29:26Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

1:29:27Dave Ramsey:I'm going to find another way to do this. Or I'm going to do something else. But there's not, you are paying for something that does not have a return on investment when you pay for an IV plus. Okay. You're paying for the famous name and the famous name has no benefit in the marketplace. None. No one hires people to do prosthetics based on where they went to school. No one walks into an oncologist and says, I got cancer doc, but wait a minute, where'd you go to school? No one asked their lawyer where they went to school. They just ask, can you help me? I've got 1 ,000 employees. I've never hired one based on where they went to school.

1:30:11Dave Ramsey:So we've got to find another way to not spend$200 ,000 on something that has zero return. Oh, and going in debt to do it. It's just unwise. So you've created this narrative, this world that says there's only one possible way to do what I want to do. and it's$200 ,000 in debt to do it. And all that means is you have not looked at enough options yet. You've not found another way to do this yet. And I don't know enough about your world to give you a practical advice other than to say you need to try some other doors on this.

1:30:45Rachel Cruze:Tiffany, how much does your husband make a year? So he makes, I think,$175 ,000. Okay.

1:30:52Dave Ramsey:Okay, yeah. And so even if you were paying cash for it, I would tell you not to do, not to pay an extra$200 ,000 to go to this particular school. Yeah. Okay. But you're not paying cash for it. And so it's just like, absolutely don't do this. Please don't do this. But please rewrite this narrative and say, there's got to be another way for me to get at this. And I promise you, if there's only one possible way for you to do this, and it's through going$200 ,000 in debt, that's God telling you don't do it. don't do it you're supposed to do something else with your life i don't know what it is but the last thing you need to do is follow through on this it's a bad idea so back up say okay how how can i get this certification does the is the masters really required now

1:31:44Rachel Cruze:there are a few things that require medical field i bet so it's i don't know i i don't know anything

1:31:50Dave Ramsey:about it. I truly don't know. But the first thing I would do is question everything. I'm going to rebel, right, against the system. You know, here's one you can't win, okay? You can't become a licensed psychologist for doing therapy in any state without a master's, okay? That one you can't fix. But there's a lot of places you can get the master's in psychology, right? That's right. That's right. And so including online for that matter. And so hers is a very narrow, much more narrow field than that. And I don't know if it's an absolute requirement or if it's just highly suggested or looked upon.

1:32:33Dave Ramsey:If it's highly suggested or looked upon, I don't give a crap. I do not have a master's. I do not have a PhD.

1:32:40Rachel Cruze:Well, it's hard when you're in such a narrow field like that. Yeah, it's hard to figure out. options are going to be more narrow. So you may have to even expand bigger, Tiffany, and ask, okay, why do I love this? Could I do something in a similar vein that still fulfills me in that way, but it's going to look different? I don't know. So you may have to get a little creative if it doesn't work, because if it's that niche, there's only four schools and all of it.

1:33:05Dave Ramsey:One of the guys that comes to Entree Leadership, they own a prosthetics store. They do the fittings. and I've sat and talked to him. I do not remember any of this out of that. But maybe I just didn't know what I was talking about.

1:33:18Rachel Cruze:You probably didn't ask him. Yeah, it'd be interesting.

1:33:21Dave Ramsey:I truly don't know. But I do know the concept. The concept is I'm not paying$200 ,000 for something that has no ROI.

1:33:59Dave Ramsey:Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:34:45Dave Ramsey:buying or selling a home is a big deal with all the clickbait and bad information out there tick tock experts on real estate lord help us you need real information we're here to help you make the latest trends easy to understand median home prices are up a little last month they generally go up a little every month. Pretty typical, especially here in the busy spring season. Mortgage interest rates are down. A 15-year fix right now is 5.22. That's down from 6 % and some change. Yeah, it's jumped down almost a full point. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes.

1:35:26Dave Ramsey:Sarah is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Sarah, what's up?

1:35:31Rachel Cruze:Hi, it's a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you.

1:35:33Dave Ramsey:Certainly. How can we help?

1:35:35Rachel Cruze:I'd like to ask, how can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee?

1:35:43Dave Ramsey:Oh, you're not going to like my answer.

1:35:49Rachel Cruze:Well, she is graduating from college in 30 days, and I know that it won't be our place to offer financial advice unless asked after that. But for the next 30 days, we'd like to give whatever advice we can. I mean, it's too late.

1:36:03Dave Ramsey:four years she's been in college buying Starbucks and you didn't say nothing?

1:36:08Rachel Cruze:No.

1:36:09Dave Ramsey:I mean, in 30 days you want to fix four years of damage? No, I mean.

1:36:13Rachel Cruze:Of damage? It's just Starbucks. I know. It's such a bad habit financially. Well, does she have the money?

1:36:23Dave Ramsey:Is this lady, what's she graduating in?

1:36:28Rachel Cruze:She'll have a degree in landscape architecture.

1:36:30Dave Ramsey:Okay.

1:36:30Rachel Cruze:Oh, great.

1:36:31Dave Ramsey:And is she a good person? Is she of good character?

1:36:35Rachel Cruze:She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented.

1:36:38Dave Ramsey:Her only sin is specialty coffee?

1:36:44Rachel Cruze:I mean, it's not a sin. It's just that she's going to be starting her independent financial life, and I don't think she realizes how much the expenses.

1:36:51Dave Ramsey:Yeah, when she starts writing a check. Yeah, she'll start to feel it. Yeah, when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's going to go, oh, my, this is wild. Yeah.

1:37:00Rachel Cruze:Yeah, these days you don't look down at every expense.

1:37:03Dave Ramsey:No, no, no. But if it shows up in her budget. Okay. So this is fun. Or her checking account. You're fun. You're fun. Because you know that you can't do anything about this is the bottom line, and you're right. And I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you. But what I would do is say this. I would say, hey, you're getting ready to graduate. and um one of the things i wish we had taught i've done a better job teaching you during the last four years was to do a detailed written budget and um so as you do as you come out i really want you to pick up this every dollar app it's free and start doing a detailed written budget for your sake and i wish i'd done a better job making sure you did that all along but i didn't and so it's my last parting advice here's what'll happen when she does that sarah So that budget will – the categories in a budget, when you actually do it and actually live on it, if you can get somebody to do that, the categories yell at you.

1:38:02Dave Ramsey:And the specialty coffee will yell at her and go, I just spent$300 this month on coffee. This is crazy. And the numbers will just yell at you if you're doing the actual budget. If she'll do it.

1:38:13Rachel Cruze:And if she doesn't, she's going to be getting a starting salary somewhere, and she's going to have to learn how to live on her salary. And I think through trial and error, Sarah, she's going to learn, okay, I can't eat at such and such restaurants weekly. I have to cut that back. Gosh, this coffee is like, I'm spending so much here. I got to probably pull back here. Like, I think it's going to be some trial and error. Or Sarah, God forbid, she has the money for her specialty coffee, and that's what she wants to do. And if it's not illegal or immoral, there's a value system there, right? Like, there's things people spend money on that I roll my eyes at, like two-year-old birthday parties that look like wedding receptions.

1:38:49Rachel Cruze:I'm like, why would you, why, why? You know, I roll my eyes at that, but it's not wrong that people do that if they have the money. Yeah, and it's not your money. And it's not my money. People look at people buying cars. Like I would never spend X on a car, but if you have the money, like that's what they want to spend their money on. So there is a point that it's going to be what she values.

1:39:08Dave Ramsey:I think if you have a daughter graduating from college and she is a great person and the biggest flaw you can find in her is this, I would just step back and say thank you Jesus and say nothing and say I did a great job I have a great daughter and if she spends some money on coffee I don't agree with so what I would just step back from this and let it go I would encourage a budget because a budget will point out to any one of you anybody doing a budget but the numbers yell at you yes this is smart this is dumb well

1:39:45Rachel Cruze:and to your point, Sarah, what, what your, your opportunity costs of where money can go, right? So even just throwing in a coffee a day in an investment calculator and just see what that would cost you. Right. And again, not like you're never going to not buy coffee, but you start to see where your money has power and where you can use it wisely. But again, buying coffees, you know, if that's what you want to do, that's fine.

1:40:07Dave Ramsey:But I saw, I saw this question come up on the screen earlier and it took me back and you've never heard this story but my grandparents were in the great depression of course and they used the coffee grounds three days they would reuse over and over they would reuse them um in a percolator oh yeah okay they put them in a percolator make a pot of coffee the next day left them in there make a pot of coffee and every time

1:40:32Rachel Cruze:you do that it's weaker by the third day is it even third day this this is hilarious the third

1:40:37Dave Ramsey:day it was so weak and so tepid that they called it coffee tea. Oh gosh. It was not really, I mean, it was just nasty. Just water. And so when your mother and I get married and we use fresh grounds every morning, they felt like about us, like Sarah feels about her daughter.

1:40:58Rachel Cruze:How wasteful you are.

1:40:59Dave Ramsey:How wasteful we are because we make fresh coffee every single day and didn't reuse the grounds. and have coffee tea the third day.

1:41:09Rachel Cruze:Yeah, yeah.

1:41:10Dave Ramsey:But that's so funny.

1:41:12Rachel Cruze:It's just a perspective, right?

1:41:13Dave Ramsey:Yeah, it is. It's just, but I mean, I wasn't raised in the Great Depression, and Sarah's daughter was raised in Portland, Oregon, which is kind of the home of specialty coffee. One of the homes of specialty coffees. Yeah, yeah. And so it's a coffee town for sure. And, you know, it's, yeah, that's interesting. But what a great discussion. Yeah, it's funny. That's great. Yeah. I will say this, though. I want to go back to that other thing on every dollar. Everyone start doing your written budget, your detailed budget, because I will say it again. Money, the numbers will, if you actually look down at it, you will feel stupid when you're doing something stupid.

1:41:59Dave Ramsey:I mean, the numbers will just look at you and go, that's stupid. The numbers will go, that's what. You'll get a gut check. And when you start chunking money over like in your emergency fund when you're working on Baby Step 3 and you see that growing or you're chunking money on the debts and you see the debts start to go away, the numbers will tell you and you'll start to feel good about yourself. The numbers will say you're smart, you're smart, you're smart, you're smart. And that thing talks to you. It really does. It talks to you and it tells you, you know, you're acting like a child or you're acting like an adult.

1:42:27Dave Ramsey:And that's silly to spend that. And I remember one time I sat down in a Financial Peace University group, and this guy, 100 years ago, and this guy says, I figured out when we did our first month's budget, why we don't have anything in retirement, we're spending$1 ,200 a month on eating out. Just on restaurants.

1:42:45Rachel Cruze:Oh, yeah.

1:42:46Dave Ramsey:And this was back in the day. I was going to say, that was even, yeah, yeah. That'd be like$2 ,000 a month or$3 ,000 a month now on restaurants, right? He goes, I figured out why we don't have retirement. We've been eating it. You know, and the numbers are telling you. They're looking at you going, you're dumb. This is dumb. You're consuming all of this money, and you're not doing any investments. You're not doing any generosity. And the numbers, if you can get her to do a budget, Sarah, if her specialty coffee is out of line as a percentage of her overall income and world, it will speak up for itself and tell her.

1:43:20Dave Ramsey:Yep. She's going to be able to see it. And you will never have to say it because I don't think you're going to do any good saying it, by the way. No, I agree. Yeah, she's going to say, none you, Mom. None your business, mom. I was going to say mom. What are you talking about? Hey, mom.

1:43:32Rachel Cruze:No, in the budget too, the reframing of having your money work for you. That is such a big mindset shift for people to say, this money is here for me to use as a tool to create a life that I love. What do I do with this to create a life that I love? And stability and peace gives you some of that. It gives you a life you love. And that's the investing and the generosity. So you're doing the basic things and making sure that those things are covered. And then anything above that, then you're able to say, okay, what do I want to use this for? And if she wants to allot coffee in there, that's great, right?

1:44:06Rachel Cruze:If that's her luxury item. But yeah, but making sure that, again, that it's in a perspective and in a reality of her overall budget that makes sense.

1:44:14Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's fun. Good call, Sarah. That's interesting. You're fun.

1:44:39Rachel Cruze:When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90 % of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

1:45:17Rachel Cruze:It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

1:45:40Dave Ramsey:So a couple weeks ago, Rachel and I were on the air, and a lady called us with a devastating, life-threatening question. Not really. I'm being sarcastic. And Rachel and her bonded immediately.

1:45:54Rachel Cruze:Well, her name is Rachel too, which is great.

1:45:56Dave Ramsey:Yeah, her name is Rachel as well. And we put the thing on social media, a little clip of it on the reel, and it's gotten like a million and a half or something views already, and it's going to be four or five million by the time I finish talking about it. So we're going to play a little bit of that clip to give you guys a little bit of an idea of what the conversation was about.

1:46:13Rachel Cruze:My question is, is there ever a time in Baby Step 2 that it would be appropriate to cash flow, like a life event or a once in a lifetime experience. What would that be? So it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and Brian at the sphere in August.

1:46:34Dave Ramsey:The Backstreet Boys.

1:46:35Rachel Cruze:Yes.

1:46:36Dave Ramsey:Their childhood friends.

1:46:37Rachel Cruze:Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel.

1:46:40Dave Ramsey:You know Rachel's been twice. And the call went on from there. And Rachel was crying because she had to tell her in Baby Step 2 we don't do that.

1:46:49Rachel Cruze:I don't think I actually said it, the words.

1:46:50Dave Ramsey:We decided it would be a fun thing to follow up with the other Rachel that called in about this, and she's in Indianapolis. Hey, Rachel, are you there on the line?

1:47:00Rachel Cruze:I am.

1:47:01Dave Ramsey:Hey, well, something weird happened since you called in. So somebody went into my DMs, and I don't look at them. Our social media guys look at them, but they recognize the guy, and he wants to come on the air and talk to you. Kevin is his name. Hey, Kevin, how are you? Hey, guys, how's it going? Good to have you, brother. Thanks for being with us. So, Rachel, this is Kevin from the Backstreet Boys.

1:47:31Rachel Cruze:This is your childhood friend, Rachel. Oh, my goodness. Is this real right now? This is real. You're not being punked. It is a dear friend of mine. shared the clip with me, a buddy of mine who's an actor, Big Rye, Ryan McPartland, shared the clip with me. I saw it and I immediately posted on the clip in the feed, I can help, maybe I can help. And then I DM'd Dave and here we are. And I would like to invite you and a guest to come see us in Las Vegas. And we'll pick up the tap. Oh my gosh!

1:48:17Dave Ramsey:Well, and you can't go in Baby Step 2 if you have to pay for the travel, so Ramsey's going to pick up the travel for you, okay?

1:48:24Rachel Cruze:Are you serious right now? Is this not the best day, Rachel? So happy for you. I'm like going to start crying.

1:48:33Dave Ramsey:That's so fun, y 'all. That is so fun. I have no idea what all y 'all are squealing about, But Kevin, thank you for doing this.

1:48:40Rachel Cruze:Oh, my God. Kevin, you're the best. Kevin, you're amazing. Well, you're amazing. And thank you for all you do. You work in the health industry, right? Are you a nurse or a caretaker? So I'm a psychiatric nurse practitioner. I work in, like, mental health and addiction.

1:49:00Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Well, you're doing God's work right there. and you deserve a break and you deserve a mommy-daddy trip or a girlfriend's trip or whatever it is, you and a guest come and hang out with us

1:49:16Rachel Cruze:and take a trip back in time. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. And it's such an honor to speak with you. It's great to speak with you today, but Kevin, you're amazing. Thank you, thank you. I believe, I believe, I like to, I'm not, I don't like to spend money, but when I do spend money I like to spend it on experiences and so you should have this experience

1:49:41Dave Ramsey:absolutely yeah and Rachel can testify since she's been there twice I know Kevin you guys you heal

1:49:48Rachel Cruze:inner inner childs of of millennial women across across our world it is it is the best show so Rachel I'm so excited for you yes thank you so much this is incredible thank you um but no, I, I, I'm speechless right now. It takes a lot to get me speechless. Well, I hope you have a great time and, and Dave, I'm a new fan now and Rachel here. I'm a new fan as well. Thank you for coming to our show. John, uh, is it Delaney?

1:50:21Dave Ramsey:Is that how you call it? Delaney or Delaney? Delaney. I've been following him for a while. I love what he does. And he actually reached out to me, Rachel, and said you were coming to the show and I was going to try

1:50:34Rachel Cruze:to see you guys, but we got our DM timeline crossed up and I didn't get to say hi to you. That is totally fine. I appreciate that. He's a good friend to do that. But yeah, Kevin, we love you. We do. We love the Backstreet Boys, just so you know. Thank you, brother. Following along, getting all kinds of things on how to handle my finances as well. That's right. If you need any help, you let us know. I'm sure you'll be fine.

1:50:59Dave Ramsey:thank you thank you kevin that's very generous we'll see you this summer whenever you let us

1:51:04Rachel Cruze:know we're going to be in touch our folks will reach out to you and uh whenever this summer um july through august you you figure it out you pick it out and we'll take care of it oh my gosh you're like you guys are incredible thank you so much like i i don't know i can't

1:51:22Dave Ramsey:say thank you enough like that's so fun we'll see you this summer thanks kevin for reaching out That's very generous of you. Very cool. Good stuff, guys. Very fun.

1:51:32Rachel Cruze:Thanks, Kevin. Very fun.

1:51:33Dave Ramsey:Well, you don't get to do that very often. Like never.

1:51:37Rachel Cruze:Oh, my gosh. It's like a make a wish. I feel like we just healed Rachel. I was like, the fact that we get to take her, you know, it's amazing. Kevin's generosity, unbelievable.

1:51:49Dave Ramsey:Appreciate him reaching out in the DMs. Yes. Glad my social media guys actually recognize because I don't look at it and they would Well, yeah, no, but it's... Oh, this is like the Kevin. Yes, yes. And his generosity and all is just incredible. So kind. And it makes a fun moment. It makes a great moment.

1:52:06Rachel Cruze:She'll never forget it. Oh, my gosh. For sure.

1:52:08Dave Ramsey:So great. Yeah. Now we have a whole new clip.

1:52:11Rachel Cruze:And it is the whole... Well, the experience part, what he said, is so true. And that's what Arthur Brooks talks about.

1:52:16Dave Ramsey:The stinking sphere is just off the chain.

1:52:19Rachel Cruze:Do I? Oh, yeah.

1:52:20Dave Ramsey:The sphere is just 167 ,000 speakers. It's like you're wearing headphones. It's incredible.

1:52:25Rachel Cruze:It's amazing. It's amazing.

1:52:26Dave Ramsey:Yeah, Rachel's going to have a great time. And we'll pick up the travel. And he's picked up the tickets and the experience that he'll have. So great. The boys will have lined up for Miss Rachel in Indianapolis. And very, very generous of them. And we appreciate the effort. And the effort to come on the air with us and do the giveaway. Yes, I know.

1:52:45Rachel Cruze:We took time out of his day to do that. So kind. So kind.

1:52:48Dave Ramsey:Very nice. Very nice. I know. Hey, guys, generosity. It's...

1:52:53Rachel Cruze:Heals the soul.

1:52:54Dave Ramsey:The best part of handling your money well is it puts you in a position that you can do something. The best part of handling your fame well is it puts you in a position to do something. The best part of handling your power well is it puts you in a position to do something for someone else, which is where you will get the most joy, by the way.

1:53:12Rachel Cruze:Yes, yep.

1:53:12Dave Ramsey:And so, you know, it just goes right with the giving shows, the generosity stuff we talk about. But obviously, it's Kevin's spirit to do that and to be that kind of a person. And then it sets Rachel up to be able to do this. It all comes down because you were already the biggest fan and customer. And she called in on a day you were on the air.

1:53:35Rachel Cruze:Listen, I got someone to Taylor Swift because the Aeros tour was amazing. The Backstreet Boys in Vegas. Oh, my gosh. It's life changing. It is. So when you get to... It's a spiritual experience. I'm telling you, for millennials, y 'all, this is like our... Oh, and I just saw, I think it's... There's some... Yeah, there's some more... All the millennial bands, they're all like coming back. There's like a thing in Nashville happening this summer with some of them. Yeah. It just... It is. It's so good. The nostalgia play is real and...

1:54:00Dave Ramsey:All the boomer bands are back, but they're all 80.

1:54:03Rachel Cruze:Yeah. These guys can actually dance. These guys are young. They can actually be dancing. And they're all good guys. Like, there's one of the songs, and it's a video of all of, like, pictures of them and their moms and their kids and their wives. And you're just like, oh, my gosh. Like, they've just done so well. They've stewarded it so well. And I think that's why I love them, too. There you go. It's all these years later, you know? Or I'm praying for Brittany still. I want her to do well. But, yeah, it's awesome. So great. That's fun. So great.

1:54:31Dave Ramsey:Congratulations, Rachel. Rachel, I'm so happy for you. And thank you again to Kevin and the Backstreet Boys for furnishing the tickets. What a great, fun thing we get to do here on the air today. Thank you.

1:55:13Thank you.

1:55:34Dave Ramsey:Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey Trusted Tax Pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to you with the heart of a teacher. But they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro.

1:56:29Dave Ramsey:Our Scripture of the Day, Romans 8, 28. And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. Colonel Sanders said, just because you took longer than others doesn't mean you failed. Remember that. By the way, if you didn't know, he started Kentucky Fried Chicken at 67 years old. So it's not too late. I don't care who you are. It's not too late. Very fun. So, Rachel, are you okay now? I'm okay. Are you calmed down now?

1:57:01Rachel Cruze:I did. I said the 12-year-old me is just dying inside. Dying inside. That's so funny. Listen, the boy band era was real, y 'all. when you were in middle school, I mean, that was a real thing. So that's pretty wild.

1:57:17Dave Ramsey:So they had to be like 20 years old, right? Or they were teenagers.

1:57:22Rachel Cruze:Oh, yeah. Okay.

1:57:23Dave Ramsey:All right.

1:57:24Rachel Cruze:Yeah. But he was the oldest bandmate. And he just told me, because I ran into the booth to say thank you. Yeah. His oldest, he said, was 18. His oldest child, son.

1:57:36Dave Ramsey:Oh, so age he was when all this was happening. Yes.

1:57:38Rachel Cruze:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. And I think he was a little bit older in the band, too, if I remember right. But anyways, it was great. So fun.

1:57:46Dave Ramsey:And to be able to hook her up on that.

1:57:48Rachel Cruze:We need to do like a once a year giveaway on Ramsey's show somehow.

1:57:52Dave Ramsey:If we find something like that, we'll do it. I mean, we didn't create that. He did. That was awesome. I mean, we just facilitated it, right? So if you call in concert tickets, we're not buying them for you, okay? That's not what this was about, okay? Okay. But yeah, that's, but yeah, he DM'd us and I'm out there talking to a social media guy and he's telling me the whole story. I didn't even know how this all happened, but very interesting. Very fun. It was fun.

1:58:20Rachel Cruze:Fun. Wonderful.

1:58:21Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I think she was truly speechless.

1:58:24Rachel Cruze:Yeah. I'm sure that was like a massive whiplash. Yeah. Yeah.

1:58:29Dave Ramsey:She had no idea why we called her on the air.

1:58:31Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:58:32Dave Ramsey:We called her and said, we need you to come back on the air. And she's like, what did I do? What? What? What I do wrong. What I do wrong. All right. Emil is with us in Miami. Hi, Emil. How are you?

1:58:42Rachel Cruze:Hey, guys. I hope you're doing better than you deserve.

1:58:44Dave Ramsey:We are. How can we help you today, sir?

1:58:47Rachel Cruze:Yes. So I just graduated college four months ago. I'm 26 years old. I was able to secure a 70K career that's pretty stable. And I wanted to know how I can stay motivated to stay out of debt for the next 40 years. I have no student loans. I have a paid-off car, I think, for my parents. And I do have 5K in credit card debt. And you're wanting to know just how to.

1:59:18Dave Ramsey:Well, you can't stay motivated in a vague sense of, oh, I'm just going to be motivated. Most people can't. You need a specific reason that you're doing things. so uh you know for instance when we went broke um and i filed bankruptcy the year rachel was born because i was an idiot and um so my reason was to never be back in that kind of pain again and to make sure i could feed my children and to change my family tree that was my reason my driving force was to never be stuck with by that again and and so you know why if you were to build wealth Why would you? And what would be your goal? What is it you're trying to do with the wealth?

2:00:07Dave Ramsey:So if you're married with a kid, you'd say, oh, I'd love to change my family tree. You know, I'm the first one in my family to graduate from college. And so I'm going to use that as a way to, you know, further the family name. And the, you know, but I don't know what your thing is. But you need to have something that's a reason, a why that you're doing this. If you have a good why, your motivation is there. So I'll recommend a book for you and a TED Talk as well that's famous by a friend of mine named Simon Sinek. Simon became famous from the TED Talk, and now he's had multiple bestselling books.

2:00:47Dave Ramsey:And we've spoken together in leadership conferences. He's a wonderful guy. The book that made him famous and the talk that made him famous is called Start With Why. Start with why. And so you have to have a big why for scratching and clawing and sacrificing to win. Otherwise, you'll just be mediocre. And in America today, it's very easy to have a really high quality life and be average and mediocre and not be all that you could be. The enemy of excellence is not laziness and all this. The enemy of excellence is, oh, everything's okay. So I don't have to push myself. And I don't have to develop a why.

2:01:34Dave Ramsey:I'm just like, thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday.

2:01:37Rachel Cruze:Coasting.

2:01:37Dave Ramsey:Coasting.

2:01:38Rachel Cruze:Yeah, yeah.

2:01:38Dave Ramsey:So you need a why. You need a reason that we're doing this. And if you've got that, then it'll get you up in the morning, and money will be a natural result of that.

2:01:48Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and usually the motivation and the why, if it's something that can be taken away, like I'm doing it to buy a type of car or I'm doing it for this thing, that can feel very shallow very quickly. So those things that money can't buy, I'm doing this for my family. I'm doing this for security and peace. I'm doing it like, you know what I mean? Like those things are great.

2:02:09Dave Ramsey:Someday I want to give away a million dollars.

2:02:11Rachel Cruze:Yes, the generosity piece of it. Someday I want to do this.

2:02:13Dave Ramsey:Someday I want to do that. And that's your driving thing. And it becomes a goal. Your why becomes a goal. And then you begin to break it down year by year and go, okay, this year I'm going to make this much progress towards that goal. Next year I'm going to make that much progress towards that goal and so on. And a little bit at a time you get there. And that will also keep you away from things that are harming you if you have a good enough why. And so, you know, you'll cut up the credit cards and get rid of the little$5 ,000 worth of debt. That's just kind of – that's just disorganized and lazy is all that is.

2:02:42Dave Ramsey:organizationally lazy, not work ethic lazy. Mitchell is in Chattanooga. Hi, Mitchell. How are you? Good. Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So my wife and I are planning on moving in the next 18 months, but we're planning on moving to

2:02:57Rachel Cruze:a different state to be closer to family. So my question is, how do we tackle that large of a move? For context, we have$85 ,000 or so left on our house, and it's worth about$350 ,000. So our Our plan would be to take the equity from the house and use that as a down payment toward the next house. But if we don't sell our house but find one in the next state and vice versa, if we have somebody wanting to buy our house here but we haven't found the next house, what do we go about with contingencies? How would that work?

2:03:31Dave Ramsey:Well, before I worried about that, I would flowchart this and say we are moving when these things happen and not until. And I don't know what these things are, but the two that come to mind could be the house sales, and it could be you have your new job lined up there. You didn't mention that. You just said we want to be closer to family. You didn't mention I've got a job lined up, do you?

2:03:57Rachel Cruze:Well, I work remote, and I can work anywhere, so the job will just go with me.

2:04:01Dave Ramsey:Okay, that's easy then. Okay. So the only thing keeping you from leaving could be the sale of the house. You could just sit there until the house sells.

2:04:11Rachel Cruze:And then if we sell this house, would it be smart to do a lease back while we're finding the house in the next state?

2:04:18Dave Ramsey:I mean, if you can delay the closing, that's fine. If you end up, you know, what I would do is when you put your house on the market, I would begin shopping houses there. And say this neighborhood, these four houses in this neighborhood would be great. Any of them would be great. and if our house sales were immediately going to make an offer on one of those and we'll set them up for closings two days apart and um and you can make that happen or you can you can you know set up a if the buyer is willing on your side to let you live there for a month while you fool around and find a house that's fine but i think you can do your your footwork especially if you got family over there and you maybe live there before yourself i don't know you kind of know some of the areas already that you're thinking of, go over there and look at, go physically, go visit the houses like you're looking for a house because you are.

2:05:12Dave Ramsey:And only you're just not putting in an offer today. And then don't get all hot and bothered and buy a house before your sales. That's going to get you into a mess. At least, at least don't close. Yeah. So now, so that I actually did this a few years ago. We ended up, it was a two-step procedure for us because we were going to build. and obviously we didn't have time to build while we sat in the old house, right? So we bought another house, but we had already shopped that neighborhood before we put our house on the market. We put it on the market, it sold, and we made offers on three different houses in that neighborhood and bought one of them and moved into that neighborhood.

2:05:50Dave Ramsey:And you can do that kind of a thing. And you can also put a contingency offer that's contingent upon the closing of your old house. And you don't have to close on the new one until the old one sells. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.