Increase Your Income, Expand Your Options

22:27Dave Ramsey:to age 62, age 20 to age 60. I don't care which 40 years you want to pick it out. You can wait till 40 and do it at 80 if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. See, anyone can become a millionaire. It's not that complicated. George and I are doing an in-depth nerd dive. I don't know exactly what an in-depth nerd dive means, but look that one up. We've listened to you talk. We know what it means. We know what it means. At Investing Essentials, which is the third time I've ever done this event. And it's our two-night virtual event next week. It's the only place I unpack my entire playbook on investing, why I do what I do, why I don't do what I don't do, including exact formulas and details on how I pick real estate, how I decide whether I'm going to keep it or not.

23:12Dave Ramsey:All new content. We're also going into some wealth planning, a little bit of estate planning, looking at that. God, in case you're having trouble sleeping, come watch this event it will put you right out yeah tuesday and wednesday evening join us from the comfort of your own recliner i'm kidding tickets start at 199 get yours at ramsey solutions.com slash events or click the link if you're listening on podcast or youtube uh there's god john there's like 700 000 people have signed up for this thing that's crazy it's crazy it's gonna be like a lot of people sleeping but yeah now we're gonna we're gonna go into the details we're gonna give it's I mean, we've taken the material we did last year, and sadly, we've added a bunch to it, so it's actually not going to be two nights of two hours.

23:58Dave Ramsey:Brace yourself. It'll be longer than two hours because we're just not going to be able to cover everything we wrote, and we want to do it all, so we're going to do it. There we go. Hey, it's going to be a lot. If you want a lot, you can get it next Tuesday and Wednesday. The Investing Essentials two-night virtual event with George and me, Supermer. Well, let me say this. I think this is important for a big reason that we don't talk about here in the building I'm not embarrassed to say this this is just truth I knew you when I joined this team I knew you had this show and I knew you had this message and I knew you've been consistent with your message I don't know how a nice way to say this I didn't know you were as smart as you are or maybe a better way to say that is I didn't realize the level of intentionality with which you made decisions.

24:49And even in the last five or six years, the way all of our interactions are chopped up and edited and put on clips and then people respond to clips or whatever, I can imagine there is millions of people who see you and hear you say a few things. And this is an opportunity for them to really understand why you do what you do, not only why you teach people, but it's why you do this in your own house. And that, to me, makes this thing worth its weight in gold. Way, way underpriced, if you ask me.

25:19Dave Ramsey:Thank you. That's very nice. It's funny, but it's nice. Cecilia's in Orlando. Hey, Cecilia, what's up? Hi, how's it going today? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Lovely. So I'm about to get married. Yay! Yay, and I just got myself out of debt. Good. And I'm going to marry into a lot of debt. Good. My husband is a spendthrift. And so I'm trying to figure out, I know once we get married, I'm going to help him with getting out. We've already started the Ramsey program for him. Oh, wow. Good. Yeah, and it's going pretty good. But once we get him out of debt, he's going to keep spending cash only.

26:03but how do I go about saving money and not putting it all towards his spendthrift ways?

26:12Dave Ramsey:How old are you guys? 51 and 52. Very cool, very cool. Well, congratulations. I think you're going to have a great marriage. Oh, we will. We've been together a long time. Opposites attract in good marriages. Spenders attract savers, and that's a good thing because spenders need a saver. That way they don't have to retire and eat dog food, right? True. And savers need a spender in their life so they have a life. Very true. He's the fun guy. You're not. He is. I'm not. I like my books. And he's there to help you have fun. So I'm the spender at my house, oddly enough, and even though I teach this stuff, my wife is the natural saver.

27:04Dave Ramsey:And so her natural tendency, if there's any kind of emotion involved in it, is to draw back and save. In my case, I'm an abundance guy. She's a scarcity gal. And so I always figure I can get more money. So I'm going to go do it. But we need each other to create wisdom in the middle. And wisdom is that we need to spend money on having a good life that we both are in agreement on. That's wisdom. We need to save and invest to create a quality future for us and our kids and our dogs and our cats. That's wisdom. And we need to be generous. And we need to be doing all of these things together. So you're going to have to – your job when you guys are sitting and looking at the budget is to allow some fun to be in the budget.

27:53Dave Ramsey:and also make sure your savings is in there. His job is to allow some savings to be in the budget and make sure that his fund is in the budget. Because, listen, Cecilia. And then when it's all written down, you just go do it and there's no guilt. Because if that's not the case, what you're telling me is a far more concerning thing, and that is you sat down with this man that's about to be your husband, and you've said, I'm uncomfortable with how you recklessly spend money, and he looked at his future wife and said, I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I'm going to do what I want to do.

28:25And he didn't say that.

28:27Dave Ramsey:He said, okay, let's get on a plan. Is that fair? No, we're on the plan. We have weekly budget meetings now. He just literally handed it all over. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You are not his mother. You're his wife. Right. And we do have our budget meetings, and he does have input, and I adjust accordingly. But right now we're paying off his debt. Good. Awesome. So there's not a lot of wiggle. Great. You don't need to wiggle. You need to pay off the debt. I completely agree. But I don't want him emotionally turning this over. The two of you, like two 51 freaking year old grownups, are making grownup decisions together because it's good for our future.

29:05Dave Ramsey:He's saying, I agree with Cecilia. I need to clean this up. And so the two of us are going to work on that together. That's an adult decision. Mommy, take my bills and pay them for me is not what we want in a husband. Oh, no, no. We don't play that game. And Cecilia, if y 'all have been together for a while, and he sat down and said, I want to marry you, and I'm going to change the way I'm doing things, I'm going to take this Dave Ramsey course, I'm going to follow these baby step things, I'm going to do a weekly budget meeting. He loves you. But you showing up every meeting and going, well, he's just going to go spend it.

29:43Generally speaking, a husband will rise to their wife's level of belief in them. Do you get what I'm saying? Fair, yes. And if he's putting the work in, however clumsy and awkward it is, he's never done this in half a century, you seeing him do the next right thing, however uncomfortable it is or whatever, and you believing in him, man, that goes a long, long way.

30:07Dave Ramsey:So I'll just fast forward. I mean, 28 years old, almost 40 years ago, we lost everything because of my stupidity, borrowing too much money and flipping houses. and the bank called our notes and we lost everything, went bankrupt. But that's not the same Dave today that's on the microphone. And Sharon will tell you, thank God I'm not still married to the same guy I married originally. Yes. He has grown. And so while my tendency is to spend, the spending that we do at the Ramsey House is very much within the wisdom guidelines. and even if it might make her a little bit uncomfortable sometimes and it makes me happy then but still it's nowhere near where it was it's intentional i can still have my tendency but do it with maturity there you go yeah

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32:52Dave Ramsey:Luke is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hey, Luke, what's up? Hello, what's up? How can we help? I was just wondering, my soon-to-be wife is starting college, or she just started college, and she has enough for her first semester's tuition. And I was just wondering if after that we should take out student loans to cover it until she gets her job after school, or if we should just pay it off and just live pretty tight for the next three years. How old are you guys? I just turned 20. She just turned 18. And what's she studying in college? Medical imaging. So she wants to be a rad tech. So she'll be making pretty good money coming out.

33:39Dave Ramsey:So a two-year program and she'll be making 50? No, it's a four-year program, I think. Really? For medical imaging? Yeah. Yeah, she – well, she was doing, like, extra stuff. Like, there's more classes she can take to make more starting off.

33:59Dave Ramsey:maybe um she's 18 where did we get this information about this career uh her uh her second cousin does it for a living okay you know how scary that sounds when you say yeah when you do what you just said that i puckered up pretty good luke Okay, I want you and her to go to the hospital and talk to the hospital administrator and find out what they're paying. And does it require a four-year degree? That's the first thing, okay? Because if we're going to study, the purpose of studying, the primary purpose of studying, especially when we're broke people, is to create an opportunity in the marketplace that we can make more money.

34:47otherwise you could just go take a job at target right right and so if we're going to make 18

34:53Dave Ramsey:an hour after going for four years then we don't need to go get that degree that's a dumb degree okay or if you get a degree in left-handed puppetry or some kind of bullcrap degree you know you're going to end up being a barista so um you know so you need to really study what this is before you invest four years of your time and life into it much less four years of money And so that's thing one. Thing two is I think you're fairly new to this whole Ramsey thing, and someone told you to call here some friend or relative, and they tricked you. Because we're really kind of known, Luke, for telling people to never take out a student loan for anything.

35:34Right.

35:35Dave Ramsey:And you asked that question with great honesty, and it tells me that you probably have not listened to this show a lot. I'm a pretty new listener. Yeah. It was just, like, currently I don't have the money, but I'd be able to save up. No, you asked me if you should borrow a student loan. That tells me that you don't know much about what we do. Because 100 % of the time we yell at people for taking out a student loan, okay? No. Under no circumstances do you take out a student loan. Yes, you investigate what is required for her to go into this field of study if she really wants this career or if she just thought it was a way to make money because her cousin said to.

36:15Dave Ramsey:which scares the crap out of me. But, yeah, I really want her to pick out what she wants to be in life and then what education does it take to do that. So we do not borrow money on student loans. The statistics are horrendous. 100 % of the people that take out a student loan have a student loan. Only 57 % of the people that start college finish. Okay. That's not even half. that's how bad colleges are i agree i i decided to skip college and go straight into the workforce because i've been believing yeah well and luke the what we don't want to have happen for we don't want you to be in the situation we're two years into this four-year degree um y 'all have racked up thirty thousand dollars in student loans and then she comes home with what should be the greatest news of your life, I'm pregnant.

37:09And now she's got to, she's going to decide to stop going to school or she can't do this imaging program because she's pregnant. And so she's got to do something else. That student loan payment is still due. And so that's what happens in real life. Yeah. And so I was 18, I was 19, I was 20, I was 21. Dude, we had crazy roommates. I lived in some of the wildest living situations. I still took out student loans like a goofball, but like, yes, Yes, y 'all are scratching and clawing. Y 'all are eating bologna sandwiches and rice and beans. Yes, y 'all are just going to scratch and claw. And by the way, y 'all could end up with a pretty amazing marriage together, figuring out ways to solve these problems without borrowing money because y 'all are in this thing together.

37:49So it could be a cool thing three or four years down the road.

37:52Dave Ramsey:Let's verify that this is the proper path to get where you want to go. Let's verify that it is where we want to go. And then let's figure out the least expensive way to do it and pay cash for it. Those are the three things we would tell you to do coming out of this. I'm also going to send her a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do, because I want her to spend some time thinking about who she is, because we want to decide if we stay on this track or not. So, John, a thousand years ago, when I was a kid, there was the grandfather of the, maybe the great-grandfather of the motivational speaking movement was a guy named Earl Nightingale.

38:30Dave Ramsey:and Earl famously says, with his deep baritone voice, Americans spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do their career.

38:46Dave Ramsey:How'd you get that job? My buddy went over there and got it. My cousin did it. That's not how you pick your career. Okay? You look in the mirror and say, what did God design here? How am I designed? What is it I'm supposed to do? And then with my natural giftings and talents, what kind of sharpening can I do called education and tools added in my belt called education to help me do what it is that I'm put together when I was knit in my mother's womb, according to Isaiah. What was I put when God was knitting me together with a DNA RNA double helix and a knitting needle. What was he making? And what am I supposed to do?

39:33Dave Ramsey:You need to think about that more than you think about the purse you pick out or the suit you pick out. No one buys a suit anymore, but the hat you buy, whatever it is, the stuff we spend time on. I fret over what I'm going to buy with this stupid thing, and then we just go take a job because your cousin had it. And that might not be the case with her, but when he said that, it just went down my spine. Yeah. Yeah. Or you're asking even bigger question that I always press on college students, especially college graduates, kind of life do you want to have? Yeah. And does this job, instead of I want to build a life around this job, is this job in service to the person you want to become like the life you want to hold?

40:13And if you want to help people in this particular job, man, you can do a lot of good for a lot of folks in a lot of different ways. But man, And sometimes you find yourself, I have to get a job because I got to go make money right now.

40:28Dave Ramsey:And yeah, or my dad was a doctor. My grandpa was a doctor. So I got to be a doctor. You know what you are? A miserable doctor. Man, I sat with a lot of those students sobbing. Miserable. I don't want to be here. Yeah. You know, I don't listen. If if you're my dentist and you're a dentist because your mommy wanted you to be a dentist, I don't want to be your patient. No. Yeah. I think that's going to hurt. You know, I mean, think about it, guys. You suck at stuff that you do for other people rather than the way you were designed. Right. And so, you know, what is it that you've got natural giftings in?

41:07Dave Ramsey:And let's lean into that and let's polish it and let's hone the craft to fit, you know, by adding education to the mix. I believe in education, but randomly I'm going to be a lawyer because lawyers make money. Not all of them. Some of them are really pretty broke. And I spent several years studying attorneys who got everything they wanted, and they were pretty miserable because they thought what they wanted was this number or this name on their building or whatever. And what are you looking for in your life? What's going to be the score of your life, right? So that's a lot more than just answering Luke's question, but it just kind of made me think about that deep baritone voice saying, Americans spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do what their future career is going to be.

41:53Well, and here's where Luke finds himself. Man, if y 'all are young, let's say 18 and 19 years old getting married, what y 'all need right now is some money. And if one of you knows, I want to go into the medical field, I want to do this thing. Like you said, go sit down with some people who do that job for a living and ask how that world works, not just get some salary advice from a second cousin.

42:14Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Here's what's weird. They might hire you over there as an assistant to the assistant tech and pay your tuition. That's exactly right.

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43:57Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Anthony is in Canada. Hi, Anthony. How are you? Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am just asking if I should stay at this one job that I don't really like too much and the job and the pay is not that great. Or if I should go back to kind of what I was doing beforehand and I was making better pay. But I have been working in that industry for like two years now. and every so often I'd get into a job and they'd just be pretty much hiring for when they're slow and then they'd lay off like not even six months later.

44:44But I like that industry.

44:46Dave Ramsey:What is the industry? Electrical. I was doing like electrical apprentice. Okay. Well, I mean, the electric, there's not a, I mean, that company might get slow, but the call for electricians does not ebb and flow that much. Yeah. It sounds like you've bought yourself into a corner, brother, either or. And I would love for you to consider 30 other options, 27 of which may be dumb, but just to free yourself from it's not boring job, not making much money, but stable and risky job where I love the job and it pays well, but then they just might lay off at a moment's notice. Those are two not great options.

45:35There's 300 other options, right? Yeah.

45:39Dave Ramsey:Let's get a job that pays more and is stable and you like. Yeah. That's the option I want. Yeah, I've definitely tried to. And just since I've been in the electrical industry for however long, it's primarily only electrical businesses that would hire me. This is why I took the other job. This job I'm currently doing is to get something else on my resume. Okay, how old are you? I'm 21. I'm not that old yet. So when did you get all of this experience? When you were 13? No, it's just been like the past like two, three years kind of thing. Yeah, sort of. Yeah, I've been to maybe like five different electrical businesses, and they just have been pretty much all the same.

46:35Dave Ramsey:Yeah, it wasn't that they saw someone with a limited resume. It's that they saw a 21-year-old. Yeah. And this is what, then he can do electricity, electrical work, and so we'll hire him to do electrical work. That's all it is. It's not, you're overcomplicating this. And you're discounting the fact that you're being looked at as a youth. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that changes the way they pocket this or bucket this when an employer is looking at you in this situation. So I think we would start fresh. And I'm going to send you a copy of Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. And I want you to pretend like you had never worked in your life and you were brand new.

47:15Dave Ramsey:And your dad just said, okay, you've got to get out of the house. Go and be free, my son. And you said, okay, what am I going to do with my life? What do you want to be when you grow up? Huh? What do you want to be when you grow up, Anthony? You know, so I want you to answer that question kind of and start fresh as if you didn't have all this other stuff weighing you down because it's probably going to take you to one of those other 300 options that John's talking about. And then you discover what Henry Cloud calls your desired future that might be completely different than anything we're talking about.

47:44Dave Ramsey:As a matter of fact, I think it should be. And then you say, OK, what must be true for me to be one of those kinds of people making that kind of money? Oh, wait a minute. I'm going to have to take a two-year certification program. Oh, I'm going to have to go to trade school. Oh, I'm going to have to get a four-year degree. Oh, I got to go to graduate work. I don't know. Whatever it is to be one of those, then go do those things to be one of those. And at 21, your chief focus is becoming the most excellent electrician possible. And there's going to be some grinding out that happens here. Like Dave said, it stinks.

48:20It's a bummer, whatever. But, man, go become the best freaking electrician in your province there, and you will be hired.

48:29Dave Ramsey:The people will want you on their squad. Exactly. Show up early, leave late, work while you're there. Take weekend jobs. I have a family member. Take a bath and smile, and they'll never get rid of you. I mean, it's that simple. And take Saturday and Sunday jobs at people's homes, changing plugs out and changing light fixtures out and putting in ceiling fans. Like, become excellent at the craft and the adjacent crafts, man. And, dude, I'm telling you, as a guy that's spent a lot of money on electricians recently, bro, the demand is there. You've got, like, firsthand knowledge of welders, electricians.

49:01Dave Ramsey:You're a real wealth of knowledge today. Winston, your son-in-law is helping me on with some home projects. But, man, the work they're doing is second to none, and they are very proud of it. Yeah. As they should be. They like it. So, hang on. We'll pick up and send you a copy of that book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. Good one, Dave. Bo-da-boom. It is the title. Good one. Sullivan is in Las Vegas. Hey, Sullivan, what's up? How's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I'm kind of in a pickle a little bit. So my rent went from like$1750 up to like$1950. You're one of them debating whether to stay here, move out.

49:41We're trying to pay off debt as much as you can. We have like$20 ,000 in debt. So we're kind of just looking around, see if it's better for us to stay or to move into something cheaper. So that's kind of where we're at right now.

49:54Dave Ramsey:Cool. Was it just the two of you? It's me, my wife, my two daughters, and my sister-in-law. Oh, not just the two of you. Yeah. So you've got to have a place that has a lot of bedrooms, huh? Yeah, it's really for like a three-bedroom, but Vegas can be pretty expensive. What's the sister-in-law? How does this play into this? Well, she lives in California, and so she came out to Vegas to live with us to go to college. And so my wife and her are both going to CSN out here in Las Vegas. Now, is she paying rent? No, we're just trying to help her. She's 19, so she was in the Boston area. That's nice.

50:32You're broke.

50:33Dave Ramsey:Okay. Yeah. Are you in a position to help her? No, he's broke. Because you're getting ready to go rent a house you wouldn't have rented because you have a sister-in-law tagging along. Um, and if you do, it's just you and the two kids, you might do something completely different. So that, that enters into this equation. So Sullivan rent is patience, patience while you get out of debt and save up money to buy a house. The less you pay for your patients, the faster you get out of debt and save up money to buy a house. And so I'm going to take the cheapest possible rent I can because it's for a period of time.

51:07Dave Ramsey:It's not my way of doing life. It's living like no one else. So that later I can buy a house. living like no one else so later I can live like no one else and give like no one else. So you get out of debt, save your emergency funds, save your down payment because you have a low rent, and then you talk about buying a house. And as you do that, your credit will clean up because you don't have any debt. And you'll be more and more eligible for that while you're cleaning all this mess up. But you're going to have to lean in hard on all that. And you don't look at renting as a way of life then. We look at it as a temporary stop.

51:40Dave Ramsey:We're camping here till we get our more permanent home that we actually own. And Sharon and I often called it camping, although there was no literal camping involved. We're going to camp here for a little while. Now, as a way of telling our brain, this is temporary. Just for a season. Notifying my body. It's not going to be here long. It's going to be somewhere else. I'm just camping. We're going to camp out here a while.

52:13Thank you.

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54:09Dave Ramsey:Marcus is in Minneapolis. Hey, Marcus, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thanks for having me on. So my fiance and I are getting married here in about three weeks, and we are looking to build a home on five acres that my dad gifted to us. So for reference, we make about$150 ,000 gross per year. We have$110 ,000 in savings right now. Our only debt is$25 ,000 in student loans. But the house we want to build is around$400 ,000 to$450 ,000. But following the 25 % rule, it probably looks like we'd only be able to afford something around the$300 ,000 range. So we're just looking for some guidance.

55:04Dave Ramsey:Well, you've already got that.

55:08Dave Ramsey:We told you$300 ,000, didn't we? Yeah. How old are you guys? We're both 28. Okay. If you put today, if you take$25 ,000 of that$150 ,000 you have and pay off your student loans, and then you put$100 ,000 down on a$400 ,000 house, that brings you to$300 ,000, doesn't it?

55:34Yes, but I'm saying like I think I'd have to get the loan amount down to closer to like$200 ,000 for that to work. Y 'all make a combined$150 ,000? Yes. Gross, yeah.

55:49Dave Ramsey:Okay. Well, I mean, there's a concept that you can do whatever you want to do. You're grownups and you're allowed to do that. But you're calling and asking our advice in the guidelines that we have that we show people how not to be house poor so that they can have margin in their budget to invest and to be generous and to buy the next car for cash and to pay cash at Christmas and not have the house own them. And so, I mean, what if you told me that the house you wanted was$700 ,000, but you can afford$200 ,000? you know no way you would just say you would use the words that no one uses in america we can't afford it and so you've got to decide what you can afford now there's a couple of other options i mean no one says that in the first year of marriage that you should build a home as a matter of fact i would probably tell you having built several homes it's not good for your marriage to build a home in the first year of marriage.

56:57Dave Ramsey:This is the opportunity to fight like you have never fought in your life. And so, um, you know, and it's a brand new tender relationship, marriage, and you're, you know, it's a, you know, building a home's a lot. It's a lot of details, a lot of decisions, and a lot of compromises between the two of you of what color something's going to be what the thing is going to be. And, I mean, sometimes one of the spouses just says they're not going to be involved and the other one does it. But that's not healthy either. You both are going to live there. You both should speak into what the house is, okay, and you both should have a vote.

57:36Dave Ramsey:And then by the time you do that, it's going to be strenuous relationally. I wouldn't tell people not to build a house in their first year of marriage relationally. So having said all of that and giving that little speech, it might be okay to just go rent an apartment on the other side of town Is this land adjacent to your family? Yeah, we have a family farm, so we're just kind of getting a chunk of that. It would be good for your wife to not be next door to her mother-in-law in the first year of marriage. Yep, I get that. Marcus, what's your take-home every month? It kind of varies because my work's a little seasonal, but I pick up some part-time work in the wintertime.

58:20So I don't know. It probably varies between$8 to$10, depending. I make more in the summer. Okay.

58:28Dave Ramsey:And does your wife work? Your fiancé? Yes. Getting ready to be. And that$150 is the total of the two of you? Yes. And the total take-home pay from the two of you would be about what? Not 100 % sure, to be honest. Okay. Well, that would be a number you would need to have the discussion we're having. Yeah, because I feel like you're underselling a bit. I feel like you've, like, to get that 25 % mark, I think you're close. I just did some napkin math here on the computer. I think you're closer than you think. Yeah. But I also agree with Dave. But it's also okay to wait a year. I also agree with Dave relationally.

59:03Tell your dad, like, man, thank you for this five acres. We want to spend one year just figuring it out ourselves. At a cabin in the woods. And we're going to save a little bit more money so we can put more down in the sense.

59:13Dave Ramsey:I'm not near any of you people. Yeah, I'm serious, man. It would be great for you. And then when you come over there, your marriage is more knit and more matured. And when you come over there next door to her mother-in-law, then she can handle it a little better. And I know your mother is great, but she doesn't know that yet. So it may take a while. And you're going to have family members that say, oh, you're going to throw away money and we're giving you – They don't get a vote. Yeah, it's a good season to learn, like, who gets to speak into what you do next. That's awesome. I'm taking a year off if I'm you.

59:48Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Pay off the student loan today, stack cash for a year, rent a cheap apartment. You'll build a different house, by the way, too. 100%. You'll know each other better after a year, and you'll build a better house together. Spend a year touring houses to see what you like. You like this kitchen. You like that bathroom. Yeah. Clip, you know, build a Pinterest board with all the ideas you like and all that kind of stuff. And take pieces of a house. And, you know, the last house we built, it was three different houses that we found pieces of and we bolted them together with an architect and made it look right.

1:00:22Well, and even Sharon explaining parts of the house and the way this new house y 'all built, like it was a learned experience from another house. Exactly. But it was like we built a different house because of that other. We had lived together in another situation. Exactly. Yeah, you'll build a different home that you'll be more happy with.

1:00:42Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you'll do it. You'll be somewhat. Yeah, wait a year. Wait a year and pay off student loan. That's my advice. The trick is, will you do it? Now, that's where it comes down. I know we're against polymarket, but we should have a polymarket. Like, would they? One of those. Oh, we're against betting? A gambling site. But if there was a, are they going to do it or not? That'd be fun. Yeah, we could just take like an informal poll with no money on it. There we go. Okay. Yeah. We don't have to do GoFundMe with it. Will they do it or will they not? Will they do it? Thumbs up, thumbs down. John in Madison, Wisconsin.

1:01:18Dave Ramsey:Hey, John, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I have a question regarding starting a 401K. So I have about$50 ,000 in debt. $30 ,000 of those are student loans and about$20 ,000 on a car. And following the baby steps, I know I'm supposed to start paying down my debt. But at 30 years old, I'm kind of just getting a little bit concerned about the type of retirement funds. You're going to die poor. You're so old. John, you're 1 ,000 years old. That is kind of what my thought was. How are you getting around, Walker? Have you got a wheelchair? Dude, you are so stinking young.

1:02:04Dave Ramsey:Don't whine about being old. You're not panicking at 30 years old. You need to get your butt out of debt and follow the baby steps. You're not old. You're not old. Yeah, temporarily, but I want you to get after it, man. I mean, we don't keep this debt around for four years like it's a pet. It's just, what did you say it was, 50 grand? 50 grand. 60 grand. What do you make? um me and my wife's combined income is about 175 per year so pay it off in a year one year dude okay so what's five thousand dollars a month in your budget um our margin is about four to five thousand per month done well cut something else out i want to be six thousand then be done in ten months okay just be done with it then this is not a question you're a whole 31 years old when you start your 401k.

1:02:58Dave Ramsey:But just trying to do six things at once is how people do nothing. And by the way, you'll have$5 ,000 a month to invest to do whatever you want to with. Once you get rid of this stupid debt. Changes your life, man. Attack it like it's a disease, because it is.

1:03:30Thank you.

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1:05:09Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? Missed private student loan payments can leave you feeling like your financial goals are on hold. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fit your budget so you can move forward with an actual plan. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Dave, I feel like this question is directly aimed at me. And so I just want to call out that it hurts already. This is a personal affront to John Deloney. To Deloney. Today's question comes from Diana in Washington, D.C. Since my husband and I have gotten married, we've justified certain purchases by saying, quote, it's an investment.

1:05:53For example,$2 ,000 worth of high quality business suits that would last for many years. As we started listening to the Ramsey show, we began to suspect that we aren't using the term, it's an investment in the right way. Is it ever appropriate to refer to a purchase as a quote unquote investment, even if we don't expect it to generate an income or profit? If not, how should we be thinking about purchases like these to decide if they're right for us?

1:06:18Dave Ramsey:It's never an investment. It's wise consumption. Ooh, good line. Or it's unwise consumption. One of the two. But I really think my guitars and my hunting gear and my gym, those are investments. Yeah. I mean, the thing is this. There's a couple things that when I first started teaching this stuff, people started throwing all these sayings at me. And they're all pretty good. Stuff like, you know, rich people ask how much, poor people ask how much down how much a month. Okay. Okay. Wise people buy an expensive item, rich people do, that will last 20 years. And poor people, unwise people buy a cheap item that feels good right now and last 20 minutes.

1:07:01Dave Ramsey:And so it's kind of like we're teaching the kid, they're buying a toy and you're going, that toy is going to break by the end of the week. Or you can buy this item, this toy, and it's going to last. It's built. It's a Tonka truck, right? It's going to last generationally. I got Tonka trucks at three generations now. So, you know, that kind of stuff. So, you know, what is a wise purchase? And so, you know, you buy a quality thing. So an example would be I would suggest you buy a two-year-old high-quality automobile instead of a brand-new Dodge Neon. Right. Which is going to be crap by Friday because it was crap when you bought it on Monday.

1:07:43Dave Ramsey:And so, you know, I mean, but that's the difference in a wealthy mentality and a poor mentality. I just want something shiny and new, even if it's cheap in quality and won't last. In her case, she's talking about that. That's what Diana's talking about is a quality suit. It's going to last you. It's a timeless cut and material. It's not a high fashion item that's going to be a fad item, but that you can wear that forever. Um, I wear on media and oftentimes on stage, I'll wear a black blazer. Okay. And I don't own a tie anymore. I got out of that business, but, um, I've got three or four of those that I paid a lot of money for.

1:08:26Dave Ramsey:And I think they're approaching 10 years old now. Um, and they, you know, they're, they're hanging in the closet here, they're hanging in the closet, the house and so on, you know, backstage at the event center. So if I need one, I got the exact same cut, custom made high quality item, you know, and And so it travels well because it's not going to wad up. And, you know, it's a, you know, so it's a good, that's, but that's not an investment because I can't turn around and sell it at a profit. And that's the definition of an investment. Yes. It goes up in the end. The investment is going to pay you money out and, or go up in value and you can resell it and clothing definitely doesn't qualify.

1:09:02Dave Ramsey:Just ask the people at the consignment sale. And so, yeah, that, that, but it, but you can call it a wise consumption and, uh, it's a good, it's an interesting question. question. And what I do love about her question is, is that words do matter. Yes. They give your brain signals because if you call it an investment rather than wise consumption, it gives you permission to double down. Well, and that's where I get called out because I've used the phrase, oh, this is really an investment over and over in my life. And it's just been a bad justification for I really want this thing and I want to get the nicest version of this thing.

1:09:36And so if I call it investment for whatever reason, it makes it okay. Instead of having the courage to say, you know what i just want this and i've saved up for it and me wanting this is enough yeah and i don't need all this other baggage to it to to justify for myself exactly i i want a nice thing i think i

1:09:54Dave Ramsey:quit using one of the times i learned to not use this was i was 26 years old i was making a lot of money in the real estate business and before i went broke and i bought a jaguar which i grew up in a neighborhood where they couldn't spell jaguar so um much less i even knew what one was so it was very impressive to me that I had a Jaguar. I thought it was, you know, BA, right? So I roll up at my grandpa's house and my grandpa Ramsey was a Scotsman. He was a classic grandpa. I mean, pull the crooked nails out of the board, straighten them out and put them in a coffee can. You know this grandpa, right?

1:10:28Dave Ramsey:He never, he never threw away anything. Everything was a child of the great depression, worked 38 years for Alcoa aluminum, saved every dollar he ever had, never invested any of it just saved it and just stacked cash and he comes out he was a sweet man he came out and i'm there in my little double-breasted suit and i think i'm a really cool 26 year old and he said what is that i said it's a jaguar grandpa he said wow it's a fine looking automobile he said what'd that cost and i think at the time it was like 35 000 bucks or something which today would be 150 000 bucks right and i said 35 000 he goes oh my god i've never spent that on a car he said that is a fine car i said well grandpa it's it is it's a great car it's it's a great investment and he said really that's amazing he said so in 10 years will that car be worth and i said and he said well honey my investments go up

1:11:29Dave Ramsey:but that's the same thing right it's the same mentality now that car if i had paid cash for it and wasn't leveraged to my eyeballs of getting ready to go broken real estate business trying to appear to be something i'm not which is the case in that situation totally shallow as i could be right um i mean classic classic putting on the pose um but if i if i had paid cash for the car and I had the wealth, I still should not have used the phrase, it's an investment. It's consumption that I can afford. So it's wise consumption and I like it. And that's an okay answer. At least then I wasn't trying to defend it as if it was going up in value, which is what he called me on.

1:12:11Dave Ramsey:But that's the thing. If it's not going up in value and you can't turn around and resell it or you don't propose it's going to go up in value, then it's not an investment. So we bought a boat and it's an investment. in our family. No, it's consumption for your family. It's not an investment. Boats do not go up in value. None of them. Two best days of your life. The day you buy a boat, the day you sell it, right? That's the old saying. Now, I don't know that because I've never sold my boat. Now, I have sold them and got a better one. But yeah, so I'm still a boat guy. I'm not against boats. But the point being, don't, well, we're investing in our children by taking them to Disney.

1:12:50Dave Ramsey:No, you're consuming an experience. And your value is that you want to spend money on experiences rather than other things. Okay, that's fine. Just own it. Quit acting like it's something it's not. Right. And that's what she's calling out wisely here. Yeah. I like that. That's a good discussion. Words matter. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So, So make sure your heart's aligned on this. Okay, we're consuming this money. We can afford it. It's a wise consumption. It's a reasonable purchase given our situation. But we're not going to call it something it's not, which is an investment.

1:13:28Dave Ramsey:Oh, that's so good. And I'll even say this. The baggage that I brought to it, man, it took me a while to unpack this. I'll probably unpack this the rest of my life, is that underlying I'm not worth that. or guys like me don't play guitars like that. I haven't earned that. I'll never, like, that's people who buy that kind of thing. So you're acting like it's going to go up in value because that makes it okay because you're not worth doing it for you. That's it. And for me, taking ownership of, I want this. My wife and I have agreed on it and it's okay if I get it. It's okay. And it checks, it's a part of our life rhythm, right?

1:14:09That's good. I like that. But that was, for me, getting over, like i'm not worth two two thousand dollar suit like i'm not that guy i'll never be that guy but if it's an investment i can do that right yeah now and it keeps you from uh buying stuff to

1:14:22Dave Ramsey:impress other people that's that to me is the most important thing

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1:16:24Dave Ramsey:One of the biggest things that is a mistake people make is thinking they can skip having a will because they're too young for a will or too healthy for a will or they don't own anything. Well, guess what? You don't get to pick when you die.

1:16:41Dave Ramsey:So, sadly, sometimes that happens to young and healthy people. A will helps protect your family. It gives clear instructions, keeps your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted while they're going through a difficult time. If you're ready to create a will, go to MamaBearLegal.com. If you're not sure where to start, text QUIZ to 33789, and we'll help you figure out which option, whether an attorney or mama bear is your best option. Jennifer is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jennifer. How are you? Hey, I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Well, I was wanting to know if I should go back to school.

1:17:25Well, if I should go to school. I've never been to college, and the job that I've been in, although I've risen through the ranks position-wise, I can't go any further without a four-year degree. What do you do? I work in the cafeteria. I'm a trainer for them. And so I've been a worker. I've been an assistant manager, a manager.

1:17:57Dave Ramsey:What is it that you can't do because you don't have a four-year degree? Is it just corporate policy? It is. And, yeah, it is definitely required. I've tried every avenue I can think of, and I can't be in a supervisory role.

1:18:20Dave Ramsey:How long have you worked there? Being a specialist. I've worked there for almost 20 years. Okay. And so if you get a four-year degree in what, nutrition or what? Honestly, it could probably be in anything. Probably anything. I'm thinking business. Yeah, I'm thinking business administration. Just to check the corporate box. And then your income today is what? $65 ,000. $65 ,000 a year is what you make? Yeah. How old are you? 50. Okay, and what would you make four years from now if you got a degree in any old thing? Well, a person of my work experience, other than college and caliber, they make around 75 to 85.

1:19:12Dave Ramsey:Doing the exact same job? Doing not what I do, but doing what I would want to be able to do. Which is what? Be a supervisor or maybe a... Over the cafeteria. A training specialist. Well, it would be over several cafeterias, like 18. and my thought process is that even if it takes me five or six years if I being 50 that would still give me an additional five six years okay what I do like is the idea of improving yourself putting some tools in your belt for you to be worth more and earn more I like that I don't like that you're doing it for an artificial ceiling that shouldn't be there. And so that makes me want to quit and go work for someone else.

1:20:14Dave Ramsey:Instead, yeah, I mean, cause this is stupid that you have to have a four year degree in left handed puppetry so you can go run 18 cafeterias and you know how to run a cafeteria off the back of your hand without thinking about it. And these morons in corporate America have decided that a four year degree, somehow makes you a genius. Somebody with a four-year degree came up with this policy. That's how much of a genius they are.

1:20:41Dave Ramsey:So I don't like that part of the discussion at all, but I love the idea of continuing personal growth. Continued personal growth is the best investment human beings can make. Going to events, going to seminars, reading books, studying, getting another certification, another degree, constant state of learning in a culture where the rate of change is so rapid that it's blinding is necessary to win and to grow and to be better. And so I like all of that. And so I would tell you to go to school and study something. I don't mind that a bit. I also think you probably need to look at working somewhere else.

1:21:23Dave Ramsey:John, what are you thinking? Yeah, I'm thinking one at what a costly corporate mistake to not put somebody of your experience, caliber, leadership ability into the next right position that will improve everything for the company, their bottom line, their employee retention, their insider knowledge, all of it, simply for this one box. It's just corporations deciding we're going to outsource. We're going to use a metric to outsource value, and we're going to use a metric called degree or not degree as a hard stop. I mean, you know, we have some policies around Ramsey that we say that we start the policy with almost never.

1:22:11Okay.

1:22:12Dave Ramsey:We almost never hire relatives of current team members because if you fire one, you lose the other one usually. So we just almost never do it. But we have occasionally when common sense, super when common sense, superimposed and stepped on top of a policy, then we put the policy down. And I've worked in in university settings, which are the epicenter of this. Right. You've got to have a degree to breathe at a university campus. And I get it. I've had two different universities and two different employees that I would put as some of the best employees I've ever worked with. had no degree, but they were so skilled, and I gave them a path to eventually if they wanted to, but I went and fought on their behalf, right?

1:22:56And so I'm frustrated there. On the other side of it, I grew up in a home where, and Dave's, what Dave said is really wise. So in what he said is very specific. My mom took her first community college class at the age of 41, and it was simply, I want to get some training and some education so that I can go make some more money. And she found a whole new world. And so she graduated with her PhD at 63 and got tenured as, no, at 57, got tenured as a professor at 63. That was not even on her radar, not even on her planet. And here was this woman from Texas that spent in her mid-70s was teaching over at Oxford overseas.

1:23:34It gave her a whole new world, but the pursuit, and Dave was right here, was she wanted to grow herself and she wanted to keep learning and keep um wasn't driven by an artificial corporate stupid policy that's it that's right initially i want to get some training so i can get a job at a community college and that led to another thing led to another thing but it was all based on i want to continue to grow she spent time in corporations because she kept learning new things and so if you do take this track which i like dave support make sure you study something that you're super interested in make sure you get there get through it quickly too and you find the least expensive option for you.

1:24:10And you pay cash for it. And if this job goes away, you've got a tool set that your horizons, your toolkit, everything's been expanded so that you can go do other things besides just this one thing, because they set you up for this. Yeah. And by the way, your tool set may tell you to leave. That's exactly right. You might find out, oh my gosh, I have the skill set to go do the same thing at a warehouse instead of a cafeteria. Then I don't have to work for stupid people. And I can make quarter million dollars doing that, right because you've got such amazing experience you've got experience working with parents working with administrators working with legislatures working with vendors you've got so much experience that you may not even realize how marketable you are um that yeah that's great but dave i just get

1:24:53Dave Ramsey:frustrated by those hard stops you know what i mean yeah so i mean i can understand the concept but i think an almost never in front of it and then she's the exception would be more much less corporate stupidity. It's just this corporate idea of you just box yourself into a corner. Yeah. Unnecessarily, right? Well, I mean, and this is why small businesses employ 57 % of Americans because small businesses use common sense. I need a person who can do this job. Yeah. If you work for a family business, they actually most of the time have some brains. You know, at least look at something through a reasonable lens.

1:25:32Dave Ramsey:you know you might not agree with it but they at least are you know it's not a blind and is the reasonable ins can you do this job well with excellence yeah i you know i don't know what anyone's degree is in this place except yours because you talk about them all the time

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1:27:20Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Manny is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Manny, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I got a rental property that's worth$600 ,000. Well, it's estimated between$575 ,000 and$600 ,000. I owe$340 ,000 on it. And I have$30 ,000 in personal debt and$20 ,000 in business debt.

1:28:00I'm coming up on a bonus next year that I should be able to wipe out all the debt. I'm trying to just, you know, but I'm feeling a little pressure, and I'm not sure if I should sell that rental to pay off the debt. What do you owe on your personal residence? Or just kind of hold it out.

1:28:17Dave Ramsey:What do you owe on your home? My home, I owe$200. Okay. Just under$199, I think. Okay, cool. So you have a business debt, but you get a bonus. Sounds like you're an employee. How do you have both? I have a business I purchased last year, and I also have a full-time job. Oh, okay. So your business that you bought has got the$30 ,000, and it's a side hustle. I have$30 ,000 in personal debt, and then I have$20 ,000 in business debt. Okay, so what kind of business debt, what do you owe them business debt on? Credit card. Okay, it's not business debt, it's personal. You allocated it in your mind to business, but the bank doesn't know it's business.

1:29:11Dave Ramsey:It's in your name. Yeah. So you have$20 ,000 in credit card debt because you used a credit card to buy a business. Okay. All right. and then$30 ,000 worth of other personal debt in addition to that. So there's no such thing as business debt on something like this because banks don't loan money to businesses your size. They loan money to people that do things like businesses your size, which is fine. Okay, so anyway, minor detail. So$250 ,000 gets you out of debt 100%, and you make what a year again? I make 60 a year, but then I get paid a bonus based on the revenue that the business that I work for does.

1:29:53Dave Ramsey:Another 50. It's based on the revenue. So like this year, the bonus is projected to be$100 ,000. And I get paid at first quarter of the year and third quarter. Wow. And so next year I would get paid about$50 ,000 in January and then the other$50 ,000 in July. Okay. All right. So the premise that we're using to answer your question overall, you've asked a very nuanced tactical question. But the principle is that what we have found in 30 years or 35 years of doing this is and proven it, by the way, is the fastest method to build wealth is to not have debt. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income.

1:30:44Dave Ramsey:And when you give it to a stupid bank, it keeps you from building wealth. And so what I'm always going to lead you towards is being debt free as soon as possible. The$50 ,000 in miscellaneous debt, the$200 ,000 mortgage, and the rental. And so I love rental properties, and you're making money, and you're making good money, and you're making it in kind of a weird way, which is fun because it makes you live on the 60 and then gives you 100 to do something else with, it sounds like. Are you married? Yes. What does she make? Well, she works in the business. Okay. What's the business make a year?

1:31:27Well, we just bought it, so this is our second year.

1:31:31Dave Ramsey:Well, you didn't pay money for a business that doesn't make money, did you? Well, we did. Yes, we did. It does make money, but we've just invested it back into the business. Okay, so what's the profit on the business a year? last year the business made um it was just under 60 000 okay then you paid taxes on yes okay okay and so good thank goodness what'd you buy it for 200 200 000 okay Okay. But you paid cash for all of it but$20 ,000? No. So I'm sorry. I messed up on that. I have it seller financed. Oh, so there's more debt. Okay. How much do you owe the seller? Right now it's about$60 ,000 that's left.

1:32:39Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Yes, sell the rental property and pay off the$60 ,000. and pay off the$50 ,000 and pay off your home mortgage, and then you're 100 % debt-free and you're making$250 ,000 a year pretty soon and you're able to cash and invest and invest and invest and buy another rental property later on for cash if you want. But I'm going to use this rental property to clean up this mess right now. Okay. Think about this for a minute. What business decisions would you make that are different And how would you walk and talk inside your office with your employer if you had no mortgage, no credit card, no debt, no seller financing, zero debt in your life?

1:33:27Dave Ramsey:Can you breathe that level of peace into your lungs? Oh, I feel really good. Yeah. That's worth trading a rental property for. Okay. So you wouldn't wait because I could pay off. I know. I heard you. You can't pay at all. You just kept stacking debt in the conversation. For a minute, your bonus was going to handle it. But then after we finished the conversation, your bonus doesn't even come close anymore. How much do you cash flow on this rental property? $1 ,100. Yeah. So put it this way. You're paying more than$1 ,100 in payments. Yes. And you're going to clear all your debts off. And if you get this$100 ,000 bonus and it all comes through as you think it's going to, just that's eight years, what, nine years of rental of cash flow on this property.

1:34:15Yeah. You just accelerated that. Exactly. Right. So pocket that, be happy, put that a hundred grand towards the life you and your wife want to live and investments and what, I mean, you'll have no payments. You'll do whatever you want with a hundred thousand dollars.

1:34:29Dave Ramsey:Go become a multimillionaire now with no debt payments and a great income and a good, a good business and a good job. And by the way, you can do this two ways emotionally. You can think you're, quote unquote, losing this rental house, or you can think, thank God I have this thing that can clear up all of these goofy decisions I've made up until now and let me do a hard reset. And we've learned our lesson. We're never going to borrow money again. We're going to have 100 grand cash in the bank on top of what we already – my salary. We were able to just do a control-alt-delete. That's an amazing place to be.

1:35:06be really grateful that you're in this position. Yeah. Go sell that house.

1:35:09Dave Ramsey:It's wonderful. Yeah. It's exactly what I would do. And if you want to own real estate, just start stacking some of your bonuses in just, you know, in a high yield savings and look over there and go, oh, there's 400 ,000 over there. Let's go buy a rental house. If you want to do that, that's okay. But that's three years out.

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1:37:42Dave Ramsey:Kayla is in Des Moines. Hi, Kayla. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm calling because I was in baby step seven, my husband and I, when we were 27 years old, We had a paid-off mortgage, no debt, and in the last 10 years, we have just backslid, and I really don't have a good excuse for it other than it was just keeping up with the Joneses. And currently, we're living in a house where our monthly income is where our mortgage is about 33 % of our monthly income, and we just feel so overwhelmed every month at the end of the month financially that I was just wondering if you think I should sell my house and downsize to something cheaper.

1:38:37Dave Ramsey:Wow. I hear the pain of regret in your voice. It feels dirty, doesn't it? Yeah, it really just feels like we had it all figured out, and now we're just normal. You just got lazy. You got relaxed, and then went back to being like everybody else. I'm so sorry. How old are you, Kim? That's a horrible feeling. Yeah, so I'm 37, and in the last three years, we have bought and sold three separate houses, and that's really where my apprehension comes in from selling my house. Why? Just, I guess, just lifestyle creeps, just wanting bigger and better all the time. You moved up every time? Yes. Kayla, tell me if I'm wrong.

1:39:28I want to push on this a little bit. There is an unsettledness in your marriage. Fair? Financially, definitely. And maybe it's just financially, but there's something that y 'all are chasing that over here we're going to finally feel a certain way, and then we need to go over here, and this will make us whole, and this will bring us – like there's something that – a disconnection between you and your spouse that is – y 'all are chasing with these other things.

1:40:00Dave Ramsey:You're looking for love in all the wrong places. Yeah. Am I off my rocker? I have a pretty happy marriage. Okay. I mean, I don't – I just – I do feel like we're chasing something, and it's more just trying to keep up with the junk. I'll be happy when. I'll be happy when. I'll be happy when. And you can have a happy marriage that's not a united one. You can have one. Discontented. Yeah, one or both of you can be peacekeepers, and y 'all can find yourselves sitting six inches away from each other on the couch, but y 'all are 6 ,000 miles from each other. Y 'all are on different planets. And y 'all can say, no, we're happy.

1:40:40We don't yell. We don't scream. We like each other. But that's different than being we are unified building a thing together. And building this thing has costs and it has wins associated with it. Right. But all I have to say is, yeah, I'll let Dave answer the question.

1:40:54Dave Ramsey:It just sounds like I agree. It sounds like there's like discontentment has been driving this. And so and contentment is a spiritual decision. Godliness with contentment is great gain to be able to just sit and breathe and call where here I am okay, and we're not going to die from where we are. We're going to work to be better. We're going to be ambitious, but we can also be content. We're being ambitious for a thing. Yeah, the difference is that we're not chasing happiness in a wrong location. It'll all be okay when. I'll be happy if I got this. I'll be happy if I did that. I'll be happy if I had a better car.

1:41:32Dave Ramsey:I'll be happy if the kids were in that school district. I'll be happy if we had a white kitchen or whatever, which might have been set at my house a few years ago. But, yeah. And what you found at every new house y 'all bought, y 'all went with you. Yeah. Right? So I want you to get under the hood on this. You and your husband sit down and start talking about it. Okay, what were we chasing that caused us to make these decisions? And I don't want to make a new decision using that same chase. That's exactly right. I want to make a new decision based on math, and does it take us towards our new goal?

1:42:09because yes and because you've run towards a different house a quote-unquote upgrading house for the last three years you're still going to be running you might be running a different direction but you're still just running from something instead of saying hey i love that the diagnosis of the of our problem if we just say what have we been chasing and who do we want to be how do we want our wherever we live a one-bedroom apartment or a really fancy house how do i want this house to feel and man begin to reverse engineer the action steps we're going to takes so that we can get to this warmth and joy and laughter?

1:42:41What do we want our life to feel like?

1:42:43Dave Ramsey:It's a really heartfelt, authentic question. It's a great question. I love it. I appreciate you being vulnerable about it and letting us jump on this problem with you. Yeah, so this is what drives a lot of stuff. I mean, sometimes I'm asked, you know, what's the most powerful financial principle? Contentment. Because when you're content, you don't go in debt to buy something you can't afford. When you're content, you can live on less than you make. When you're content, you can be generous. When you're content, you can invest and save because you don't have to consume all of it. Who was Warren Buffett's right-hand man?

1:43:22Charlie. Yeah. Man, he has some great one-liners about, like, my watch costs$30, and it tells the same time your watch does, right? Like just some, if you can learn to settle in here and just drop your shoulders, man, you kind of, you become so free. You can do whatever you want because you're not subject to the whims of other people's approval.

1:43:42Dave Ramsey:It's strange though. I mean, and part of contentment is, is I don't care what anybody thinks. Yeah. Which we always find that statement among millionaires. I became, I got out of debt and I became wealthy when I quit caring what others think. Why do you drive a Toyota and you're worth$4 million? I don't care. Why do you? I'm not taking a poll. yeah why do you wear those shoes stoplight i know people i don't even know because i don't care yeah yeah it but it's dave i think people hear this as for lack of better terms oppressive speech this is the most empowering thing you could tell somebody is unhook yourself from all of these phantom judgments that you think are being cast your way and get in the driver's seat of your own life become the chief agent in where you and your spouse want to go man you you become you can just do anything.

1:44:30Dave Ramsey:And it's pretty extraordinary. We had a relative when we got hardcore after the bankruptcy, we got hardcore and we still are. We never quit. Yeah. We don't borrow money for anything ever. And we don't care what you think. Period. Now I'll try to convince you for your sake. If you're asking me a question, that's what I do here on the air. But in terms of do I need your approval to become as wealthy as we have become by not borrowing money? No, I don't need your approval. Not at all. I'm not taking a poll. And then we had a relative that's like, I'm worried about y 'all. I think that bankruptcy damaged you.

1:45:12Dave Ramsey:I think you need counseling. And I'm like, for sure. But not for the reasons you think. And so we took her on a cruise a few years later. Just to say thanks for her advice. That was full of crap. But yeah. I think you need counseling. I think you've joined a cult. Is that church you're going to a cult? Church lady, right? Yeah. Thank you, Dana Carvey. But if you find yourself running and you're running from thing to thing to thing, that's so good, Kayla. Thank you. You got us off on this. The most helpful thing you can do sometimes is just stop running. Why? What am I running? Why am I in this race?

1:45:53Dave Ramsey:Yeah. They call it the rat race. Yeah, man, I was telling you off air. They don't call it the thoroughbred race. They call it rats. A powerful book by Ty Nguyen. He's a professor in the University of Utah called The Score. But he asked this really important question in the book. Is this the game I want to be playing? That's it. And, man, that question is, I ask myself that 10 times a day. I'm going to take my marbles and go home. Thank you very much. Somebody cuts me off in traffic, and I feel that, is this the game I want to play? No. Right? To, like, all of it. Is this the hill you really want to die on?

1:46:25Is this it? No, man. That's so good. I want joy in my house. That's what I want.

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1:47:40Dave Ramsey:Mark is in Buffalo, New York. Hey, Mark, how are you? I'm great, Dave. Thanks for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up? Well, I'm trying to convince my wife that for the next couple of years, I'm hoping to retire in the next four to five years, to invest in the markets instead of memories. I know that sounds kind of odd. She would rather spend the money, I don't want to say now, but rather spend it on the kids and grandkids making memories than leaving a legacy. Well, you should do both. I'm trying to convince her that. And our, it's not really an angry discussion. Our discussion is mostly centered on she likes to take our entire family on cruises.

1:48:33What's your net worth?

1:48:37Probably about 1.2 or 3. Okay.

1:48:40Dave Ramsey:And what's your household income? About 190. And what does she spend on a cruise when she takes the whole family? About 30, 35. Okay. That doesn't keep you from investing.

1:48:55well i guess in a way it doesn't we definitely we max out our 401 you're investing well i'd like to put more in because i would i would love to leave my kids and grandkids something i don't want to say substantial because i know you're a millionaire Yeah.

1:49:16Dave Ramsey:What'd your parents leave you? Thank God I have both my parents still. Okay. What will they leave you? $10 million? No. Okay. No. And you're going to be okay? Your kids are going to be okay? So I should just let her have her enjoyment? No, I think you ought to both be, you ought to be investing, and you ought to let her have her enjoyment, and you have the money to do both, sir. Okay. Have you ever been successful in convincing? No. Okay. Because even the way you asked that question, it suggests y 'all are sitting on opposite side of the table, you versus your wife. It's not an argument. It's mostly I really want to retire.

1:50:07I've owned a restaurant for almost 40 years now. my feet, legs, and hips and back are shot. And when I finally do retire, that$190 ,000 is not going to be coming in. Agreed. Agreed. But hold on. He wants me to work until I'm about 65, 66, 67, and I don't want that. Have you had that conversation? I'm in pain. Yes. I want to enjoy the rest of my life with you, with the grandkids. And we don't have enough save to do that right now. Well, you guys are old enough to remember 2008. And a small part of this, maybe a major part, is that I had a lot of hubris when I was young and put our business almost into almost a million dollars in debt to the state, the feds, purveyors, insurance, etc., etc., etc.

1:50:59So she has this idea that money is fleeting and to enjoy it while you have it. And since 2008, we've paid off our house. We've paid off our mortgage. We have about half a million in our 401. So we've climbed out of that hole by doing the Ramsey thing before we knew there was Ramsey.

1:51:23Dave Ramsey:Yeah, good for you. Well done. We sold everything. We lived on... So you're how old today, did you say? 58. Okay. All right. So I think you sit down and start having some very granular conversations and say, okay, my back hurts, my hips hurt. I'm not doing this until I'm 67. I can't. And so what's going to happen is that if we, to the extent we spend all of the investment money, we're going to end up in a much reduced lifestyle from the time I retire on. And so we can do some things. We can do the occasional cruise for everybody. We can still do a$30 ,000 thing. That's not undoable. But we can't do three of them because the other two things that are that size, I need to go on investing so that we're doing both things well.

1:52:16Dave Ramsey:And I need you to join me emotionally in doing both of these things, having fun with the money and investing it instead of me feeling like I'm dragging you, kicking and screaming, and you're like a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit that you want sugary cereal right now. And I don't, you know, so I want us to be joined. And the healing from 2008 from the mistakes is in our rearview mirror. And we're joined together and we're walking into a cool new future that's a$2 or$3 million net worth in our early 60s. And while we're doing that, we're going to do some fun things too. But I'm nervous about that.

1:52:57Dave Ramsey:So my tendency is to run honey over onto the saving only side. And your tendency is to run over to the other side. Both are actually correct. And we need to be doing both, but we need to be unified in doing both. And it man couldn't have said it better. And the thing I'll add is Mark, you need a finish line because you're going to chase the word substantial. You're going to chase the word legacy. And if you don't give yourself a, I want every grandkid to get$25 ,000. I want my four kids to each get. If you don't give yourself sums, by the way, that finish line can move. Let's say you sell your restaurant and you get eight times what you thought.

1:53:36That can move. But, man, you're going to be chasing an ever-moving finish line called substantial and called legacy if you don't put some concrete ideas around that.

1:53:45Dave Ramsey:If your grandkids and kids have got no sense, it doesn't matter if you leave them a million or ten million. It'll be gone in four months. so and you probably don't think any less of your parents either yeah you don't know because you're going to leave you a ton of money from them yeah and so and i don't you know so i i you know leaving changing your family tree is a good goal it's a good goal unless it drives you to do um like like you're incomplete if you don't do it somehow there you go and uh so that that's what we want to avoid Brian is with us. Brian is in Joplin, Missouri. Hey, Brian, what's up?

1:54:25Yes, sir. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, and I was needing help on this decision to run my business full-time or to keep working for my current employer.

1:54:36Dave Ramsey:What's your business? I'm a mobile heavy equipment mechanic. How much are you making doing that? About$4 ,000 a month. That's just in the evenings after 5.30 to about 10 or 11 o 'clock at night, and then on the weekends. Good for you. And what do you make on your day job? About$5 ,500 a weekly,$35 an hour, doing it 60 hours a week. So you're making$20 ,000 a month at your day job? No, sir. Just$5 ,500 monthly. Monthly, not weekly. You said weekly. Okay. And so you've got one that's doing$5 ,500 a month and one that's doing$4 ,000 a month, right? Yes, sir. And it's hard to juggle the two at the moment.

1:55:20Dave Ramsey:Can you cut your hours back on your heavy equipment day job? That's what I currently did, the 40 hours a week. And it's still hard to balance. I hear you. Can you cut it more? I can see. I can ask them and see. Yeah, I would ask my employer to let me have Fridays off. Yes, sir, that's what I'm currently doing now. And I've got established customers, and it seems I know I could double it if I ended up doing it. Well, we hope you can double it because you're getting ready to cut your pay in half when you quit. Yes, sir, that's right. So what I like to do in these situations, I want you to do this, okay?

1:56:01Dave Ramsey:But I always say I want to pull the boat really close to the dock so I'm not taking a leap of faith. And right now you're taking a leap of faith. Like you're going to cut$5 ,500 if you quit today out of a month. And you've got to make that up, and you're only making four now. And if you don't make it up, you're going to feel that water when you hit it. So I'd like to say we're making six or seven on the business and we've cut the hours down on the day job. That gets the boat closer to the dock and then you just step into the boat. You don't have to jump and hope you hit it. And so that's what I'm going to do.

1:56:45Dave Ramsey:I want to get your, I know you're tired and you're a hardworking dude and I love what you're doing. I want you to go do this. I want you to go in business for yourself. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Business You Love, our book, and I want you to read it.

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1:58:20Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 10, 13. No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. Ronald Reagan said, status quo, you know, is Latin for the mess we're in. That is fantastic That's great I love it Oliver's in Connecticut Hey Oliver, what's up in your world? Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call I love your show Well thank you sir Yes, my question I'm 46, single, no kids No debt I haven't had any kind of full time work In about a year and a half I do have some pretty good savings and I'd like to know your opinion if you think I may be able to retire at this point.

1:59:19Today? Yeah. I mean, yes.

1:59:24Dave Ramsey:Yes, not have to work again. What are you going to do the rest of your life? Well, you know, it's funny. I actually interviewed for a part-time minimum wage job today because it has been kind of boring. I tried to get some jobs. that haven't had luck because they say you don't have the education or grad school or experience. What are you going to do with the rest of your life, Oliver? I would like to have a wife and a child, and so that's part of the question. And that requires not working? Well, yeah. I mean, it may be a possibility. Again, I can tell you my financials, and maybe you can tell me your opinion.

2:00:07Dave Ramsey:My opinion is you shouldn't quit work at 46 regardless of your financials. You should be doing something for the good of mankind and yourself. You don't have to work a slave job. You don't have to work 40 hours or 80 hours a week or something, but you ought to be doing something. Okay, so what is your net worth? What do you have saved? I have$2.7 million in a brokerage. $1 million of that's in a Roth. those are like you suggest mutual funds and etfs that average about 10 to 11 percent uh have a three-family house i own which cash flow about 300 a month of uh 30 000 in hsa 40 000 high yield savings account and um where'd you get all that uh i ran a tennis business for about 15 years and sold it no i was leasing space out of an indoor tennis club, and they sold the club.

2:01:10I was trying to buy the club, and the owner was going to sell it to me, and then at the last minute he said he sold it to a golf buddy. The golf buddy came in, and he said,

2:01:19Dave Ramsey:I have new plans for the place, and you're not part of them. Okay, so you lost your lease, and you just closed the business, but the money came from making a lot of money in the tennis business. yeah it was it was i set it up as an s corp i had 1099 workers but i mean you made a profit a lot of money and you stacked it that's where the money came from that's what i'm trying to ascertain uh yeah i live a simple life okay so what does it take you to live on a year if you wanted to not work anymore what do you need to live on well right now it's about 85 000 a year but I rent and I would like to buy a house.

2:01:58Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Well, your non-Roth investments should be generating more than$85 ,000 a year. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, you could quit today, but aside, like I said earlier, aside from the finances, I don't think you need to quit today. And you are a proven entrepreneur. You ran a very lucrative business. You developed the business model. Obviously, I love for tennis that you parlayed into whatever sources of revenue there and, you know, and stacked$3 million. Way to go. And you're only 46. So, you know, do you not remember how alive you felt when you were fighting those battles growing that business? it's felt it did feel good and i haven't been able to come up with any other entrepreneurial ideas and before that business part of working so hard was i had eight or nine jobs that were just terrible most of them being commissioned only dollar for dollar sales jobs okay so don't do that you don't have to you got 85 000 coming off that brokerage account so we're not stressed about where we're going to go or what we're going to do but um if you want a wife and kid i think you're a lot more attractive if you're actually out there doing something.

2:03:21Dave Ramsey:And most women don't want to marry a couch potato, even if they're independently wealthy. Yeah. And the research is pretty clear that if you, when you quit to do nothing, your body gets the message and it will start to send the signals, we're done here. Our work is done here. And you'll see your health fall off a cliff, your emotional mental health will fall off a cliff, your body just starts shutting it down. So I would go and do, you know, if Ramsey closed today, I'm 66, not 46. I would go and open a business because it's fun because I enjoy business. I enjoy running a business. I enjoy the challenge.

2:04:06Dave Ramsey:I enjoy the building of something that's profitable that the marketplace likes and gives you money for and uh and i'll say this happy customer you are the most singularly focused business person i've ever been around who's got an obsession with helping the first the the the frontline customer right like i know you like building a business but i think you like helping people a lot yeah but that's a good business doesn't that's exactly right if you're if you're running car repair you better like helping people that's that's exactly right yeah if you you know if you're in the if you're a doctor a medical doctor you should like helping people feel better yeah so oliver like Like, what about your, did you like the tennis business?

2:04:42Because, man, go open a tennis business. Or did you like the teaching part? Or do you like seeing the light bulb come on in young kids and teenagers and taking pretty good athletes and helping them become excellent? Like, what about that? You could do that anywhere.

2:04:54Dave Ramsey:Yeah, exactly. All over the place. But find a thing. Going and interviewing for a job and them saying you don't have a degree after you made$3 million is kind of funny. Yeah, it's absurd. The guy telling you that's making, used to be your employee. Yeah, he used to hire you to teach his kid how to play tennis, right? Yeah. And so, no, that does not steal my hope and make me want to quit. Quite to the contrary. It gives me a real reason to go start a business and kick his butt. All right. Joey's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Joey, what's up? Hey, so I am a recovering gambling addict. Today's 31 days for not gambling.

2:05:36Good for you. Congratulations, dude.

2:05:38Dave Ramsey:Thank you. Way to go. What were you gambling on? Stupid apps like MGM, like on the slot machines and stuff. It's a losing game. Yeah, it is. It's a house wins. Okay, good for you. Pridey, Joey. How can we help? Thank you. Yeah, so I started budgeting in June of this year from watching you guys' show, and I've accumulated some debt from gambling. I've already paid off. I started with$28 ,000 in debt. I got it down to$23 ,911. Way to go. But I'm trying to figure out how to prioritize it. List your debts smallest to largest, regardless of what kind of debt or what the interest rate is. Yeah, absolutely.

2:06:18Dave Ramsey:Credit cards, I owe$10 ,115. On one card? No, it's four separate cards. List them individually. Okay. Smallest to largest, and pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance. Hey, we want to be part of your healing. I'm excited for your journey. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover, which will show you exactly how to do all of this stuff, Joey. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you. We're also going to sign you up for Every Dollar, the advanced version of our budgeting app, to also help you to continue this healing process. We want to be there for you and give you everything you can do.

2:06:58Dave Ramsey:Hey, you young guys out there, you need to take Joey's cue. fastest thing that's destroying men, young men in their 20s, is sports betting. I mean, DraftKings is not a blessing to your life, I'll just tell you. It's screwing up more of you guys than anything else we're running into. So Joey's just the tip of the iceberg. So make sure you do this stuff. Hey, guys, that's how it's done. It's common sense for your dollars and cents. and you know grandma's advice still works even if it's filtered through a john deloney or dave ramsey it's just live on less than you make man works 100 of the time there it is we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

2:07:58Thank you.