It's Not Too Late To Become a Millionaire

10:55George Kamel:I'm wondering about 1.2.

10:57Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you're over 59 and a half. I am. Well, yes, I'm 60. That's correct.

11:05George Kamel:And my question to you is, I know exactly how you feel about car payments, but we are in the place where we do need to buy a new car. Multiple companies down here are offering 0 % financing. Is it better for me? I was planning on setting up a monthly withdrawal on a 0 % financed car to pay a car payment on a 0 % rather than take the lump sum out of my 401k to just buy the car outright because it's returning more than the interest. That's because you don't understand the rules of 0%. Correct.

11:51Dave Ramsey:The rules of 0 % are that you have to pay MSRP. And I don't know any fool that would do that for a car.

11:59George Kamel:Nope, I agree with you on that one.

12:01Dave Ramsey:So 0 % is not actually 0%.

12:05George Kamel:Okay.

12:07Dave Ramsey:So just take the money out of your 401k, buy a car. You're a millionaire, dude. Quit screwing around with this stuff. No, I know, but I'm cheap. I know. You're cheap in your way. You're stepping over dollars, pick up nickels. Just go buy a car.

12:22George Kamel:Okay. And if you want to be cheap, buy a used car, slightly used.

12:25Dave Ramsey:No, he's a millionaire. Go get your wife a car, man. Come on. Is it for your wife? Her car is 24 years old, and mine's 22 years old. Oh, my goodness. Y 'all are cheap. You're millionaires. Go buy your wife a car, man. But that's how I got to do that way before. No, but it's not going to keep you from being a millionaire. You buy two cars, you're still a millionaire. Okay. And you know what that million dollars is going to be worth in seven years? Two million dollars. That's what I'm hoping for. And it won't be worth that because you didn't pay cash for a car. No one ever got rich financing a car.

13:02Dave Ramsey:You got rich because you lived on less than you make, and you steadily every single month put money in that TSP like it was a religion. And that's how you got rich, because you're the man. So, okay. Now lighten up and go buy your wife a car.

13:17George Kamel:And turn off whatever social media is offering you 0 % or whatever mailers they're sending you. I don't know where it's coming from. It's the new car dealer.

13:25Dave Ramsey:It's the new car dealer because he can get MSRP. And then he takes that contract and sells it back to his own Ford Motor Creditor, whoever the crap is doing this stuff. It's always been a shell game. Okay, let's just kind of establish something, folks. Let's think about this. Here's the thing to think about. there is no such thing as free. Take that to your socialist college professor. There is no such thing as free. Someone somewhere is paying for it if it's free. So now we have to look for where the shell is hiding the P. which shell is the not free under because we know car dealers don't work for free and we know car manufacturers don't work for free and we know banks don't lend money for free so someone somewhere oh it would be you is paying for it it's just like okay here's one for you How about the zero down at rooms there they went?

14:43Right?

14:44Dave Ramsey:That's a different name. I like that. 90 days, same as cash. No, it's not. 84 % of those contracts do not pay off during the 90 days. They convert to rip-off storefront finance company, 38 % interest payments after 90 days. 84 % of the time. And in your arrogance, you think you're in the 16%. So did the other 84%. There is no free. None. Nada.

15:24George Kamel:You don't get free. No such thing. And these dealerships, Dave, they've really turned into, you get a car, but they're really a financing machine. That's what these dealerships have turned into with just a car as a transaction. And so you've got to really watch out for these deals because they'll offer it to you. You'll get in and say, oh, you don't qualify, but hey, we can still get you in a Hyundai Sonata today. And so you just get starry-eyed and sign the paperwork because you want to get out of there.

15:49Dave Ramsey:So if you ever sit down with, and I have many, many times, and I've even got family in the business, sit down with a Chevy dealer, with a Ford dealer, Hyundai dealer, Honda dealer, okay, Lexus dealer. Here's what they're going to tell you. The margins on a new car that they make are horrible. They make almost no money on the sale of new cars. They don't. They make a lot more money if you will lease it with Ford Motor Credit, and they take the lease and they sell it back to Ford Motor Credit. On average, they make$1 ,700 or so on a new car sale. On average, they make$5 ,000 or$6 ,000 on the sale of the paper that you sign called a lease when they sell it back.

16:31Dave Ramsey:They don't really care about the margin on the car. They care about two things. Did you finance it, and can they sell that paper for a profit? Because they'll make more on the sale of that paper than they will on the sale of the car. And two, can they get you to come back to the shop? Because the new car shop is the second highest profit margin on the lot. They make so stinking much money per square foot in the shop profit that it is unbelievable. believable. The only square footage on the car lot that makes more is that little office with that guy back there with the little poindexter thing on his head.

17:09Dave Ramsey:And he's called the finance manager. And that little office makes all the money.

17:14George Kamel:Is that where they go when they say, I got to talk to the manager? And they come back an hour later. And you know what? They don't come

17:21Dave Ramsey:back and say, I got you a better price. They came back and say, I got you a better payment. yep because rich people ask how much broke people ask how much down on how much a month so you want to be rich people ask how much pay freaking cash if you're a millionaire you can buy a new car you can afford take the hit go get your wife a car pay cash and see how much trouble it is to get them to sell you a car when you're not financing it you have to beg them to sell you

17:53George Kamel:a car. They don't want to sell you a car. I got it. So I bought my wife's car in cash and the finance office called me after the fact said, hey, you're about to make a huge mistake. You should be financing this car. I just want to be like, hey, I don't know how to explain this to you. Just Google me. I don't know. I don't have time to fight you on this, but I'm not going to finance this vehicle today. Please Google George Camel with a K and see what happens. I write a book just to help people avoid people like you. You don't want to deal with me today. but they're exhausting that's the number one thing they're trying to do is get you into a payment

18:25Dave Ramsey:and get you to finance this is how it works boys and girls and zero percent is how they lure you

18:30George Kamel:into the van with the candy that's what they're doing here poor jim brutal metaphor at 60 getting lured into the dealership come on in son we got zero percent in the van come on yeah no thank you

18:44Dave Ramsey:no stranger danger the guy that i got on the phone last week and he's like yeah i um i had a vanishing premium life insurance policy wow what does that mean means it was free it vanished where did it go means the agent had a top hat and a rabbit that's amazing a financial magician so for 10 years he paid triple what he would have had to pay normally. So that it vanished. So it was a prepaid, overpaid, whole life policy for 10 years. And then they did him the favor after that of not collecting any more premiums. What a kind gesture. They are just there. It's vanished. If you paid it all up front, after that, there were no payments.

19:28Dave Ramsey:It vanished. Oh my goodness. Kind of like the interest rate on my home. It vanished. I don't have one because I didn't borrow money. That's the way to do it right there. Let me help you with your refinance technique.

19:36George Kamel:Don't. Just pay it off. If you buy a car in cash, you make it vanish on day one. That's the way to do it. You want to be a magician. Best trick in the book. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

19:49Dave Ramsey:Henry Ford hated debt. That's the irony of this. J.C. Penney, it was nicknamed James Cash Penney. He hated debt. And then one of the biggest credit card issuers. Isn't that the irony of this?

20:22George Kamel:My full-time job is helping people make smart money decisions. But in my spare time, I'm a grill master. Okay, more of a semi-amateur enthusiast. But you know what makes me get one step closer to pro level? Shopping at Aldi. The other day, I threw some Simply Nature organic chicken on the grill and ended up with a meal so good that even my picky toddler asked for seconds. Aldi has become my first stop for groceries because they've got it all, from USDA choice beef to fresh organic produce, everything you need to pull off a gourmet dinner without busting your grocery budget. So stop paying more and just shop at Aldi, where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store.

21:00George Kamel:Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

21:26Dave Ramsey:If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every-dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. You did one last week, right?

21:38George Kamel:That's right, and I got another one coming up next week.

21:40Dave Ramsey:Okay, cool.

21:41George Kamel:So jump on. They've been a lot of fun to interact with people. We have the chat. We can come on and answer questions.

21:46Dave Ramsey:They can jump in with a Q &A?

21:48George Kamel:It's kind of like a little bit of a Ramsey show on top of the teaching. Except you don't have to go through a phone screener. That is the scary part for me. They just let them through, but they've been wonderful.

21:59Dave Ramsey:Hey, we're going to show you how to stick to a budget, even find up to$9 ,000 in margin. Using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth. Go for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. James is in New York City. Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

22:17George Kamel:Thank you very much. And how are you guys doing?

22:20Dave Ramsey:Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

22:25George Kamel:Well, I've been better, but I'm doing fine. I just have a question for you guys. So I've been out of college for many years. I've paid off about$15 ,000, which was the entire loan that I was aware of. And recently, my parents just informed me that they had taken out a loan to assist me going to college for about$13 ,000. And they are now asking for me to be responsible of it.

22:59Dave Ramsey:So it's a Parent PLUS loan. Correct. In their name. Okay. When they took it out, was there any discussion back in the day when you were in college?

23:09George Kamel:No, I literally didn't know it existed. I thought it was because they were very honest with me about college. I got FAFSA assistance. I got a lot of grants. I only went to a four-year school for about two years. I went to a county college the first two years. So I really thought that that was sort of it. I didn't really realize that they had taken out. So they took out a loan and didn't tell you anything about it at all, and yet they want you to be responsible for it. Yeah, they're asking for responsibility or at least help or assistance with it. How many years ago was this?

23:59George Kamel:I graduated about nine years ago. So for a decade, they've been making just minimum payments on it? Well, there's – so on top of the$13 ,000, there's$4 ,000 accrued in interest. So it's totaling out to around$17 ,000 now.

24:17Dave Ramsey:So they took out a loan, and they didn't pay on it for a decade.

24:22George Kamel:well there was a good portion of time with covid forgiveness i believe that that had

24:27Dave Ramsey:sure but the balance has grown they did not pay on it for a decade yeah yeah no absolutely

24:33George Kamel:and now they don't like this payment in their life they're probably having their own financial problems they're going well it's really his debt so we should go after him for it except it's not because it's in their name not yours so legally is their responsibility oh there's no question about the legal part. You're talking, is this a moral, ethically, what should I do as the son? Yeah, I think that's definitely more what I'm coming from. My wife and I... What do you guys make a year? We make roughly about$305 a year.

25:06Dave Ramsey:Okay. And do you have money stacked up somewhere?

25:11George Kamel:No, we don't. I mean, we have an emergency fund. We have$30 ,000 in an emergency fund. The only debts we have are a car payment that we're going to have paid off next April. Can I ask a stupid question, James? Why is a couple making$305 ,000 having trouble paying for a car in cash, let alone paying off the loan?

25:34George Kamel:We could have paid it in cash, but we didn't want to dip into our emergency fund. Where is the$300 ,000 going? Because in my head, you can clean this debt up and savor the relationship with your parents, or you can let it crush the relationship because people are petty. Yeah, that's sort of where – so that's what I'm getting to.

26:00Dave Ramsey:Okay, what George is saying is you suck at handling$305 ,000. We can't figure out what you're doing with it.

26:05George Kamel:Yeah, this is a sidebar, but it's connected to the first problem because you could clean this up in two months and pay them and say, hey listen this really isn't mine legally to pay but i love you guys i appreciate what you've done for me this didn't go down how he thought it would here's your money pay it off or even better yet apply it directly to the loan we have received uh you know recent promotions within the last year

26:26Dave Ramsey:um with our family okay so here's what here's what i want here's what i would do the entire time here's what i would do okay i would commit to getting control of my money so that my home does not look like your father's home. You want to work this hard and make this kind of money and you want to have something to show for it. That includes paying off your car immediately. And I probably given the disparity in income, the fact that you guys make this much money, I'm probably going to reach over there and just pay that other loan off. But I do think it is completely fair for you to not do that as well if you choose not to.

27:05Dave Ramsey:because it's not fair that you come up to someone a decade later, tell them something that they didn't even know existed, that they did not agree to, and ask them to pay something from a decade earlier. That's ridiculous. If I had done that, I would have too much honor and pride to tell my kid they had to pay it. I would have gone and delivered pizzas to pay it rather than ask you to pay it. This is not morally right. what your parents are asking you to do. It's maddening and it's frustrating. The only good news is it's a tiny amount of money. Sure. That's the only good news in the story. If it was$130 ,000, I'm probably just telling them, sorry, guys, you signed up for this crap and you didn't tell anybody.

27:53Dave Ramsey:If you had promised them when you were 19 years old and going to school, yeah, Mom, you all take out this loan. When I get out, I'll pay it back. It's in their name. You're not legally responsible, but you handshaked. You'd be morally responsible. I'd be telling you to write a check and shut up. You're whining. But they didn't tell you a stinking thing about it. And that is morally wrong. They should not have done that. You have a right to be angry about that. And so does your wife because she's getting drug into this too. And then on top of that, you guys make so stinking much money now. Maybe they're recent races.

28:25Dave Ramsey:But I really want you all to get control of your money so that it's not an issue either way. So if I'm you, I'm paying this loan off. and in one, just write a check today just to get rid of it. And if you want to have a little sit down with your dad and go, Dad, this is not cool. And if you come at me again with another one of these, I'm going to give you a big fat nope. And you can chew on my big fat nope because I'm not going to do it. Nope. This is wrong. You shouldn't have surprised me. You shouldn't have done this afterwards. It's wrong. But I'm going to pay it because I can. And I'm going to get rid of it.

28:59Dave Ramsey:I'm with you, George, on that because it's such a stinking small amount of money.

29:02George Kamel:They make that much in a month. So it's not a big part of their life. And then I'm going

29:05Dave Ramsey:to pay off a car and then I'm going to rebuild my emergency fund and no more borrowing money. Okay. Period. Period. Get away from this. It's not, none of this discussion has brought you a blessing. Nothing in this was like, oh, this was so wonderful. No, none of this is wonderful. These parent plus loans, Dave, it's a cancer on relationships. They're horrible. Absolutely horrible. That's just, they're just, and we see this, we get this call once a month maybe? Yeah. Or the parents didn't even tell the kid.

29:37George Kamel:And what's happening is the kid can't qualify, which is pretty wild because student loan lenders, they'll just give anybody loans. So they go, hey, parent, you're going to take it on at a higher interest rate than a normal loan for the pleasure of your kid going to college.

29:49Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

29:49George Kamel:And then they struggle to pay it off a decade later. This is the story we hear time and time again. They haven't paid anything on it in a decade. There's no struggle. They haven't done anything. It's by the wayside. We'll let him worry about that a decade later.

30:02Dave Ramsey:Sat on it and then they looked up and went, oh, somebody needs to pay this. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So moms and dads, this is the problem when everyone goes, student loans don't have a, oh, student loan is the ultimate emotionally kicking the can down the road. I don't have to worry about it. I'll worry about tomorrow. I'll worry about tomorrow. I'll worry about tomorrow. They'll get out. They'll get a degree. They'll get a big job. They'll be making a lot of money. We'll worry about tomorrow. We'll worry about tomorrow. We'll worry about it tomorrow. It doesn't matter. All education's worth it.

30:26Dave Ramsey:We'll worry about it tomorrow. All these lies you people tell yourself and your kids over and over and over. So they go get a degree that's absolutely freaking worthless. And then they've got debt around it. And worse than that, some of you didn't even bother to tell anybody. It's unbelievable.

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32:19Dave Ramsey:Justin's in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Justin. How are you?

32:24George Kamel:Hey, gentlemen. How are you all doing today?

32:25Dave Ramsey:Better than we deserve. What's up?

32:29George Kamel:Well, I can't complain too much, even though I'm going to complain a little bit here. Ultimately, I believe I was misled and taken advantage of by a financial advising group. I'm only out 15 to 20K because of their quote-unquote advice. I can go into as little or as much details as you like, but I was actually listening to your show about how terrible whole life insurance policies are and made me think about the one that my financial advisors got me in. It ended up being terrible. But anyways, target audience is military. I'm in the military, and I think they're taking advantage of military individuals.

33:16George Kamel:But big two questions are, am I slightly overreacting, and how would you help, you know, or pursue helping people avoid? You're still active duty? I am.

33:27Dave Ramsey:Good. Thank you for your service. Take it to JAG. So I did do that, and ultimately they said, you know,

33:40George Kamel:yeah, they broke fiduciary responsibility, but it's not worth enough to take it to court or anything like that. You said they're doing this to a lot of other people too, right? What's that? They've done this to a lot of other people. Well, so here's the thing. I don't necessarily think people are realizing that they're being taken advantage of because when I first got with them, I was young. I mean, I guess I still am young, but, you know, financial advisors are supposed to provide you with the best course of action.

34:19Dave Ramsey:Okay, these are not financial advisors. These are insurance agents.

34:24George Kamel:Ultimately, sure, yeah. Not ultimately.

34:27Dave Ramsey:That's really all they are. They just tell people they're financial advisors.

34:31George Kamel:They have a license to sell insurance products.

34:33Dave Ramsey:All they sell is life insurance products. They're not licensed to sell anything else.

34:37George Kamel:And so the way they get around it is they can get you investing, quote unquote, through the insurance policy.

34:44Dave Ramsey:But you got a bad whole life policy and got ripped off with a bunch of fees. And when you cashed it out, you got nothing. Is that what you're saying?

34:52George Kamel:Yeah. And I'm still struggling to cash it out because, you know, it's a terrible thing. It's made me feel like I've gotten behind, you know, setting myself up for retirement in the long run.

35:05Dave Ramsey:Well, you have by 15 grand, but it's not the end of the world. You're okay. A lot of people have done a lot dumber things than you've done, and they've recovered and become multimillionaires, so I'm not worried about you there. It's not a devastating blow that cannot be recovered from. It's a mere aggravation, and it pisses you off because you got lied to. And that part's fair, but it's not – don't take it to the ultimate drama and go, oh, this is a death blow. It's not. It's not at all. It's a deep scratch. That's it. And as far as the actual math goes, that's what it is. Emotionally, yeah, you'll be pissed at them probably the rest of your life.

35:44Dave Ramsey:I kind of am. So, you know, I'll go with that. Which company was it?

35:50George Kamel:It was First Command Financial Advising. Yeah.

35:54Dave Ramsey:Okay. The thing I would do, because we were teaching Financial Peace University for a long time in the military. and so we got to know the guys in the jag and the guys in the um uh in the chaplaincy as well we worked with both of them a lot and jag approves or denies or as influences the approval or denial of anyone that sells financial products to active duty actively on actively on the base okay i mean anybody mail anybody anything i'm not saying that but but this these guys are they're set they're They've set up shop there as if they're endorsed by the military, and they're really not. But the military has just allowed them to be there.

36:38Dave Ramsey:They have permission to be there. And I think if you can raise enough cane with JAG, you can do some damage for their permission to be there, and at least you get some satisfaction with that. That's a great start. Yeah, because somebody – I mean, there have been companies, other companies, that were there back in the day when we started this stuff 20, 30 years ago that were selling crappy products on the bases, and they've been thrown off. They've been thrown out. And a lot of it started with complaints to JAG. So even if you don't do a lawsuit, I'm going to ask what the formal complaint process is for them to be removed from the base.

37:19Dave Ramsey:Because they come in there with a military-sounding name, and they have a presence there where other companies don't. Other companies aren't there. and, you know, mutual fund companies aren't on the base. They won't let them on there. And they would actually be a much better product, but they won't even let them on. And so instead we've got this company that comes in with a little bit of camo on their dadgum artwork and it looks like somehow they're approved or something or they've been endorsed by. It's a tacit endorsement. And can you tell I'm really not a fan?

37:54George Kamel:And a quick Google search. I mean, every thread and every forum just says run away, run away, run away, run away. Yeah.

38:02Dave Ramsey:If you pick it up, yeah. Anything on Reddit, anything about first command is get away from them. And so I'm not telling you anything you didn't know. But yeah, I think I'm going to at least let JAG light them up, you know, just for the fun of it. But I think you probably just lost your money. I think you just got sold a bad product.

38:20George Kamel:High fees, high commissions. It takes a decade before it's worth anything. And so getting out like you did, it costs you. And they like it that way.

38:26Dave Ramsey:What happens is it didn't cost you as much as if you had stayed in. Exactly. The good news is it's in your rearview mirror. And from this point forward, you can be smart with your investing. You can understand what you're putting your money into, where it's going, and not get screwed over anymore. But I doubt you have a case against them legally. I think Jake probably gave you good advice on that. But I would just go ahead and light them up and let them know if you guys don't refund this, I'm just going to become like your worst. I'm going to become like an activist. I'm a problem for you. I'm going to make a hobby out of you people.

38:57Dave Ramsey:And just go ahead and mess with them multiple ways and make sure you cost them at least as much as they cost you before you're through with them. That's how I would go at it if I were in your shoes. But I don't think you've got a legal case. And there's no – if a mutual fund broker misbehaves, you can go to the Securities and Exchange Commission if they violate fiduciary. But these guys are not regulated by the SEC because they're not licensed to sell investments. They're only licensed to sell insurance. That should be your first and final red flag. And insurance licensing is a state-level license.

39:31Dave Ramsey:So if you're going to sell life insurance or whole life crap in Tennessee, you have to get a Tennessee life insurance license. Then you have to go get another one in another state unless they have reciprocal with that other state. So – but that's not the way it works if you're going to get a – so let me tell you. I've taken all these tests just to give you guys a – bring it all the way full circle, okay? So when I took the life insurance exam, which I later dropped my license because I talked so much about this that I don't want to be regulated. I want to just tell people like it is. So I don't have a life insurance license now.

40:05Dave Ramsey:But when I took the life insurance license in the state of Tennessee, it took me 28 minutes to take the test. And I studied for it for about three or four hours. Okay. When I took the securities exam to sell securities, I went to two weekend-long courses, studied for about 40 hours, and it took me five hours to take the test. It's like taking a CPA. Okay? The other one's like doing a bad book report in your senior in high school. That's the difference between a life insurance exam and a securities exam. It's dramatically different. Okay, if you're going to get a Series 6, Series 7, Series 63 to be able to sell mutual funds, you're taking something akin to a CPA exam or sitting for the bar.

40:55Dave Ramsey:You've got to get your crap together. You've got to take some classes on how to take the test. You've got to study, study, study. They're going to anticipate the questions. You've really got to get ready. Life insurance, for that matter, real estate license, a freaking joke in comparison. So don't get the two confused. When they say they're an investment advisor and they don't sell anything but life insurance products, they're lying. They're a life insurance agent. And they're almost always a cash value life insurance agent in that case. Because if they sell term life, they'll just say, oh, I'll sell term life.

41:31Dave Ramsey:They don't think anything about it. They don't have to go, oh, I'm a financial advisor, which is a load of horse manure.

41:37George Kamel:The lesson learned, never miss your insurance and investing. I hate it. That should be your first red flag runaway if they're trying to mix the two together.

41:45Dave Ramsey:First command to first command is run.

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43:33Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people Build wealth Do work That they love And create actual amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author Host of the George Camel Show One of our hits on the YouTube Ramsey Network Be sure and check it all out He's my co-host today Open phones at 888-825-5225 Tiffany is in Salt Lake City Hi Tiffany, how are you?

44:09George Kamel:Hi, Dave. I'm great. An honor to speak to you.

44:12Dave Ramsey:You too. How can we help? Thank you.

44:15George Kamel:I just have a pretty simple question, and I feel like it should be a simple answer, but it's got me baffled. So I am working on baby step number two. The bottom of my pile is my student loan, because that's the biggest. But I just realized that I am on the extended repayment plan, which means that my monthly payment is not even covering the interest. So each month my balance goes up. Yes. And so do I want to continue that while I work on my other debts or do I need to raise that up so it doesn't continue to increase?

44:55Dave Ramsey:Doesn't matter. you're going to get out of debt exactly the same time, regardless of which you do. I personally would let it ride the way it is. How much total debt have you got, not counting your house?

45:15George Kamel:About 127. Okay. How much of that student loans? 94, between mine and my husband's.

45:24Dave Ramsey:And your household income is what?

45:28George Kamel:About$110 ,000,$120 ,000.

45:30Dave Ramsey:Okay. So clearing$33 ,000 gets you to the student loans, right? Yes. What's the$33 ,000 that's not student loans?

45:41George Kamel:I have$6 ,000 in a vehicle, and then I have$26 ,000 in a second mortgage. Okay. The second mortgage was our well went dry, and we had to hook on to city water.

45:54Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Okay.

45:57George Kamel:So we just have those two and then our student loans.

46:00Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So how quick do you think you get through the second mortgage and get to the student loans? How quick do you think you get through 33 making one? What did you say? You make 120?

46:13George Kamel:Yeah.

46:18Dave Ramsey:Six months?

46:18George Kamel:I don't know. Maybe. Maybe.

46:20Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

46:21George Kamel:Yeah.

46:21Dave Ramsey:Okay. So in six months, this problem goes away. Okay. So let's pretend for a second, okay? Let's pretend$50 a month is not being covered. That's probably more than that. $100 a month is not being covered by your student loan payment, and you keep the payment where it is, so your balance goes up by$600 while you knock out the other$33 ,000 before you get around to the student loan, okay? Or you raise the payment by$600, and it slows down you getting the$33 ,000 done by$600. So that's what I mean by it's a wash. When you get to the end of the story, you will have paid off all of these debts in exactly the same speed regardless of whether you speed up the student loan now to feel better about it and slow down the$33 ,000, or now we're going to speed up the$33 ,000 and let the student loan go backward a little bit by that same amount.

47:19Dave Ramsey:Because whatever you're not putting on the student loan, you're putting on the 33. You follow me?

47:24George Kamel:Yes.

47:25Dave Ramsey:So it washes out in the end. Okay.

47:29George Kamel:It's just frustrating to see that balance go up while you're underwater already. How long has this debt been hanging around you guys? We've both graduated six years ago. Good. So we've been paying on it for, I think, three years because of the COVID thing. We didn't pay on it for those three years. And you got roped into this extended repayment thing, thinking it was going to be a blessing? Yes. I guess on mine, yes. My husband, we've been paying the full amount, but mine, we didn't. And I think we did it that way, thinking that because I was going to go into public service, it would be forgiven, and now I've done all the research, and it's not.

48:16George Kamel:We just need to pay it.

48:17Dave Ramsey:Good. I like your plan. Good self-awareness. Yeah, very good. I agree with your research. How much of the 90 is you, and how much is your husband's?

48:30George Kamel:His is 43, and mine's 51.

48:33Dave Ramsey:Okay, not much difference. Are any of them broken up into smaller loans, or is it two simple loans?

48:40George Kamel:yeah they're both i think we both have 12 smaller loans that make up that total so six or six each

48:48Dave Ramsey:or 12 each 12 each wow okay all right so that's going to be fun that's going to really make the snowball sing because you're going to get to have this emotional feedback psychological feedback of knocking out one knocking out one knocking out one knocking out one i mean crap if we break it down that way it's smaller than no longer is your uh your second mortgage is now your largest debt right i think i put it at the back

49:19George Kamel:okay that was my other question then yeah i treat i treat those little loans like individual loans because they are okay and then knock one out then knock another one out then knock another one out

49:30Dave Ramsey:and that that solves the problem even faster because then we've only got the one little debt to get rid of before we get into the student loan debts. What's your smallest student loan debt of the 24?

49:44George Kamel:600.

49:45Dave Ramsey:Oh, God. See, that's like gone tomorrow. That's your first one.

49:50George Kamel:Just get it paid off. Yeah.

49:52Dave Ramsey:Reset your debt snowball treating each of these 24 loans as individual loans.

49:58George Kamel:Okay. How are you guys keeping track of all this right now? With paper and pencil? Gross. How about we get you EveryDollar and get you hooked up there? It'll list out your debts, smallest to largest for you, help you keep track of it, and help you take control of all that money you have coming in from that$120, help you clean this up faster. So hang on the line. We'll gift that to you so that you and your husband can have full accountability, transparency in your pocket wherever you go.

50:23Dave Ramsey:Yeah, the EveryDollar financial app is going to walk you through. It'll put you on a budget and help you walk the steps exactly like we're talking about here, like George is saying. So we'll give that to you as our gift. Hang on. Wow. Very cool. That's overwhelming.

50:35George Kamel:Just looking at a piece of paper going, here's 48 debts I'm looking at. That's a lot. You know what, though? She's going to be okay.

50:41Dave Ramsey:You know how I know? She knew her numbers. She knew exactly where she was.

50:45George Kamel:Well, I think it was somewhere in the 40 or 50. No, she's got it. She knew exactly down to the penny.

50:50Dave Ramsey:You know, the secret weapon is Tiffany. That's the secret weapon in this conversation. She's her own secret weapon. So she's got it on paper and pencil, but she's got it down more than 99 % of America has it down. She's got it dialed in. She's going to be OK because she's in attack mode. She's already looked in the financial mirror and knows exactly what is to be expected. And this is the same person who looked at all the bullcrap on the Internet about debt forgiveness on student loans and was able to read bullcrap. She could see it right there between the lines. It says bullcrap when you look at it.

51:22Dave Ramsey:And she saw it right there. She's that self-aware. She's that dialed in. She didn't call me up and go, I'm waiting on Biden. Oh, wait, Biden's gone. Yeah.

51:30George Kamel:Yeah, the new administration, they're not playing nice with these debts. They're like, hey, everyone's going to pay the stuff they signed up for.

51:36Dave Ramsey:You just told me, I didn't know this, big, beautiful bill did away with Parent Plus loans.

51:39George Kamel:They're getting rid of the federal Parent Plus, all the grad loans that they were handing out. Thank God. Not going to be any longer. That's awesome. The government getting out of the lending game. That's a step in the right direction.

51:50Dave Ramsey:A little bit out of the lending. Just barely. They're still making student loans, but good. At least get rid of Parent Plus. Because it's kind of like Parent Minus. Like the parents are no longer in your life because they're pissed.

52:19George Kamel:Let's be real. Buying your first home can feel like reading Ikea instructions upside down. It's confusing and stressful, and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there. And if you try and buy a home with some click and go lender, well, good luck because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing. When I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number. I wanted a relationship with a real person, someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast. And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage.

52:50George Kamel:They don't rush you. They don't try to sell you more house than you need. They listen. They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt-free. So if you want rock-solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill loan specialist today at ChurchillMortgage.com. That's ChurchillMortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal housing lender.

53:34Dave Ramsey:Julie is in Atlanta. Hi, Julie. How are you? Hey, I'm good. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.

53:43George Kamel:Sure. What's up? So I am on baby step two. My husband and I started off with about$108 ,000 in credit card debt. But we've been paying this down since I returned to work, kind of the middle of 2022. We didn't start making big payments towards the balance until I had about a year working, but we were planning for it. So, so far, we've paid off just over$32 ,000 towards this debt. In three years? Yes, yes, we have. What do you make? So I make about$85 ,000 a year before tax. My husband makes about$140 ,000.

54:35Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you have a$220 ,000 household income, and you only manage to pay off$10 ,000 worth of debt a year. Well, it's been more two years that we've been paying it off. You told me middle of 23, this is middle of 25. Or you said middle of 22. I'm sorry, it's middle of 25.

54:55George Kamel:Yeah, so it's been about two years that we've been really aggressive. So$15 ,000 out of$220 ,000.

55:02Dave Ramsey:Still lame.

55:04George Kamel:Do you guys have other debt? Thanks for the reminder. It's okay. So our household expenses are right about$6 ,000 a month. And with our take-home pay, we're rated about$10 ,000. then we're investing for retirement, and we have that. Well, there's one problem. Okay, so here's what's happening.

55:27Dave Ramsey:Here's what's happening. You're borrowing on credit cards to invest in retirement. Okay. So we need to stop the retirement temporarily. We need to get very, very, very intense about cleaning this debt up in one year.

55:44George Kamel:And I thought I was doing pretty good paying off about$32 ,000.

55:49Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry.

55:49George Kamel:I felt pretty proud about that. I don't want you to be, though.

55:54Dave Ramsey:I want to tell you the truth, and I want to love you enough to cause you to win. And you're going to be forever getting out of debt.

56:01George Kamel:You're talking over 10 years.

56:02Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So I want you to pay off$100 ,000 in a year. You make$220 ,000, stop all retirement temporarily, stop the vacation, stop the eating out, stop the everything, and get yourself out of debt. These companies own your soul.

56:21George Kamel:Yeah. I mean, I'm not really sure how much more that could help us. You know, I've crunched the numbers, and I've looked at this for a long time.

56:31Dave Ramsey:Well, you got it figured out then. I hope it works for you. Thanks for calling. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Bobby's in Fresno. Hey, Bobby, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you very much, Dave. How can I help? Appreciate it.

56:45George Kamel:I've been listening through all the years, and I just want to reach out to you. Me and my wife recently paid off our house about three years ago, and we've been trying to save some money. And we got about$175 ,000 saved up. Cool. And we're getting ready to purchase another house. And so I was debating, because I was going to use it for a rental, if I should just go ahead and put the whole$175 ,000 down on it. The home is about$292 ,000. So I'd be over 50 % down. But what I was concerned about is whether I should be investing that much into the one home or if I should leverage myself, keep maybe 50 % of that, and put maybe$75 ,000 on one home and$75 ,000 on a second home.

57:31Dave Ramsey:And when you start talking about rental property, really when you talk about anything, but when you talk about rental property, people particularly struggle with one issue. Here's the thing you have to remember. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. More debt equals lower cash flow, less cash position, and more risk. So if you buy one house with 50 % down, you have less risk than if you take out eight times more debt and spread this over four houses. because none of them are going to cash flow then. This one's barely going to cash flow at 50 % down. I love real estate. I know. You're full of crap.

58:23Dave Ramsey:You've never bought a rental house. I own a bunch of them. Okay? I understand. So don't flinch here. The deal is that they don't cash flow. All of mine are paid for, and some of them with repairs and vacancies don't hardly make money. so when you don't get a renter for four months or one doesn't pay for three months or you put in a heat and air system it's fourteen thousand dollars or you have to put on a roof because it's leaking and you got to pay property taxes and insurance even if it's paid for you don't get a ton of cash flow unless you manage the property extremely well and you buy it cheap So this idea that the payment versus the rent is the cash flow is a naive formula and an incomplete formula.

59:12Dave Ramsey:When you run an actual operating statement on an investment property, you have all these other expenses, including loss due to nonpayment and vacancy and legal costs while you evict the people that didn't pay. And all the repairs and all the stuff you didn't think of when you had this idea that you saw on the Internet, I want to buy a rental house. So all that to say, I definitely wouldn't buy more than one, and you're not even going to like this. I wouldn't even buy one right now until you have the money. I'd pay cash for it or wouldn't do it. So I'd save up some more. You've done a really good job saving money, but, you know, the grass is not always greener over the septic tank, man.

59:51Dave Ramsey:It's just not. So I'm going to tell you, I own a bunch of rental properties, several hundred million dollars worth. Most of it today is commercial. I think we only own about 15 or 20 houses now. We've gotten rid of most of the houses. But we make good money on them, but they're a pain in the butt to deal with. And I love real estate. As I said, I've got several hundred million dollars in real estate. I love it. I think it's a great investment. But it is an incomplete picture when you don't consider all the expenses.

1:00:21George Kamel:Yeah, because you've got the hassle factor regardless if it's in cash or with debt. But then you have the risk factor added to it when it's leveraged, quote unquote.

1:00:30Dave Ramsey:I mean, when your gross cash flow, if it's rented, is a few hundred dollars, you're losing money every year. Yeah. In that case. And that's where you're going to put yourself if you leverage into a bunch of properties. And that's how people go broke in real estate. And then they go, well, you know, real estate's not as good as... Yes, real estate's an excellent investment, but it is an investment that requires a cash position in order to lower the risk of it. And when you lower the risk, your returns go way up. But that is required that you do this. So our suggestion around here, Bobby, is we pay cash for investments.

1:01:08Dave Ramsey:In real estate, businesses, whatever it is you're going to buy, I pay cash for it or don't buy it. And that slows down the speed at which you build your portfolio, but it keeps you from having to do it over from going broke. And when you go do all this leverage stuff, if I'm going to go buy six houses with the same money I could have bought one with. And, you know, you've lowered your cash flows dramatically, increased your risk dramatically, and one little California upheaval where you are, and you've got a serious problem on your hands then. So I probably didn't talk you out of it because I think you've kind of been – you've got TikTok real estate fever.

1:01:46George Kamel:He called in to ask, can I put less down? And you said, you've got to put more down. But the good news is you saved up$175 ,000. real quick. I think that's amazing. So here's the filter to look it through. I need to save up 120 grand more. I'm 120 grand short of gold.

1:01:59Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

1:01:59George Kamel:That's a solvable problem.

1:02:01Dave Ramsey:But he's already picked out a house and he's already got the fever. So I doubt I'm talking him out of the tree.

1:02:06George Kamel:He's already seen real estate mogul in his future.

1:02:09Dave Ramsey:I'm talking to the rest of the people listening around. Oh, man. Maybe get one of them out of the tree. But you guys get up in the tree, you can't get them out. But I hope, Bobby, you'll wait. If I could convince you that I love you and I want you to win and I want you to own real estate. And I think you did really good getting to 175. And I can convince you that if you'll go slower, you'll have a much greater rate of return over the long haul. That, you know, that's what the data tells us. And that's what my life story tells us as well. For those of you that don't know, I started from nothing.

1:02:44Dave Ramsey:I bought my first piece of real estate when I was 21 years old. I borrowed as much as I could borrow on all of it up to my eyeballs because I was the leverage king you think you know something about leverage I had you dialed in I could borrow money from people that borrowed money it was unbelievable I had four million dollars worth of real estate by the time I was 26 with a three million dollar debt a million dollar net worth making two hundred thousand dollars a year in 1984, and that portfolio bankrupted me.

1:03:35Dave Ramsey:Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Why Refi? when the payments on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, hard to get ahead. That's when Y-Refi can help. Refinancing to a lower fixed rate built-in loan just for you, custom built for you. Find out more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states.

1:04:05George Kamel:Today's question comes from Tyrone in Ohio. My grandfather supported a family of six from the 1950s to the 70s. He bought a new house, had a new car, and lived comfortably, all while working as a grocery store clerk. That same lifestyle today would be considered impossible on that income. This isn't just about being frugal or avoiding debt. He wasn't some minimalist wizard. Is it that businesses today aren't sharing profits with workers? Are costs just that much higher? Or is there something deeper going on in the economy that shifted the rules? I'd love to hear your opinion on this topic. I wasn't around in the 70s, Dave, so I'll let you speak to this one.

1:04:43George Kamel:Your age and wisdom will speak volumes. That's just me pushing the advice. I'm supposed to answer after that introduction. I didn't say you were a dinosaur. I was just saying I wasn't around. I can't speak to what things were like back then.

1:04:59Dave Ramsey:Well, so Tyrone, number one, regardless of what happened to your grandfather, you live today. You are not the victim of an evil system. There are plenty of people in America prospering today. You can start and run a business or an idea faster and more profitably today than at any time in human history if you live in the United States of America. When your grandfather was a grocery store clerk, if you wanted groceries, you generally went to the backyard and picked them. You didn't go to the grocery store. Half the stuff that you order on freaking DoorDash at a 528 % markup was grown in your grandfather's backyard.

1:05:50Dave Ramsey:He didn't even buy it at a store. He bought seeds and pumped water out of the cistern and poured it onto the tomato plant. He never bought a tomato in his life. Okay. The second thing is he didn't buy eggs. There were these things called chickens in the backyard, and they weren't city chickens. They were country chickens, and they took care of the family. And he probably didn't buy milk. If he didn't have his own cow, somebody down the road did, and he went down there and picked up a gallon of milk from them every so often. And it probably wasn't pasteurized, and they probably got sick occasionally.

1:06:35Dave Ramsey:it's a completely different world oh 1950s i'm not sure what percentage of americans had

1:06:43George Kamel:indoor plumbing but it wasn't huge and the wi-fi was terrible my grandparents when i went to visit

1:06:49Dave Ramsey:them uh one set had indoor plumbing one set did not when i was a kid in the 1960s okay even up into the 70s with one set so it's a little different world that you're comparing to so i'm sorry but i'm not buying the underlying victim bs passive aggressive anarchy that your philosophy pot smoking philosophy professor at college told you that things are unfair let me tell you where the fair is it's where the tilted world is in the cotton candy that's where fair is. You live in today's world, so you get to go make your way in today's world. By the way, your grandfather drove a car that did not have air conditioning, did not have disc brakes, sure as crap didn't have an airbag unless his mother-in-law was sitting next to him, okay?

1:07:38Dave Ramsey:And so there was no nothing. Gas was 12 cents a gallon, okay? And so the cars didn't cost anything because they were a piece of crap. I have this fabulous 1960 rebuilt frame-up Corvette. I also have a new one. The new one's a lot better. It's not as cute. It doesn't get as many winks from old ladies at a stoplight, but it is a far superior vehicle with a lot more expensive technology on it and cost a lot more than a 1960 Corvette. And by the way, a Corvette was an expensive car in 1960. Your grandpa wasn't driving one if he's a store clerk. He was driving a Chevy, maybe, and a used one. And the house he lived in, son, didn't have air conditioning, probably didn't have indoor plumbing, had probably recently gotten electricity, and was on average 980 square feet.

1:08:47Dave Ramsey:The house I grew up in, I was born in 1960, until we left at 16 years old, was 1 ,000 square foot with an unfinished basement. So you're not comparing apples to apples to get your little anarchy equation going. there must be some systemic evil system where the corporations are keeping all the money and the little men can't get ahead. Bullcrap in your email. It's just absolute. The problem with it, man, for me making fun of you, the problem is that you believe this stuff and so you sit on your hands instead of going and be somebody. Don't sit on your hands and blame other people that you're a victim.

1:09:27Dave Ramsey:You ain't a freaking victim, dude. Your quality of life, your standard of living is a hundred times your grandfather's. and that's if you're a poor person so what you do is you get up off your butt and you quit ordering door dash for everything if you want to grow your own vegetables and move out the country and dig you a latrine you can do that dude you probably get you an outhouse kit on amazon and get going i mean you can do this stuff so you know homesteading or whatever you want to call this stuff right and so you get after it but that's not the there's no big conspiracy you can go out there i meet young people in their 20s and 30s making more money than i ever dreamed i would make the number of callers around here that make their household income two people make 200 000 is astronomical almost every day we talk to most of our on the show 200 000 300 000 when i started this show man if i got anybody over 100 000 household income calling in here i was shocked i thought i had rich people on the phone and now most of your household incomes are up over that So this comparison to, well, you baby boomers, you bought your house with a basket of strawberries.

1:10:36Dave Ramsey:Oh, bull crap. You wouldn't live in that house. You entitled snowflake. Good God. It just, you wouldn't even live there. You'd be going, well, I think we need to renovate this. I bought a fixer upper. No, honey, that's how we grew up. You know what was in my living room until I was 13 years old from the time I was zero? What's that? Nothing. No furniture. No living room furniture. You were doing minimalism before it was cool. We were 15 years old. We bought our first set of living room furniture. Wow. Okay. And we weren't poor people. We were middle class.

1:11:06George Kamel:Man. Well, the crazy part, they didn't even have remote work back then. They didn't even have remotes. All they had was work.

1:11:11Dave Ramsey:No, they had a remote. Daddy said, get up and change the channel. Human remote control. He'd get your butt up and change the channel. I want to see what Walter Cronkite's saying instead of David Brinkley. That's how they kept the kids in shape back then. Well, there was very few obese children. The first time, I think we got a clicker when I was a channel changer, and it clicked. It would click. It did it by audio. Oh, that's why they called it the clicker. It had four buttons. That's where clicker came from. Wow. We got that, I think I was 16 or 15 years old, 1975. And it was click, click, and you could change the channels.

1:11:42Dave Ramsey:It had four buttons, up and down on volume and right and left, up or down on channel. And that was it. But there wasn't but three channels, so there wasn't a whole lot, plus UHF, there wasn't a whole lot of jumping around. That's the thing, do you?

1:11:55George Kamel:There was nothing to stream, no hobbies, no entertainment. All this guy had was the grocery store.

1:11:59Dave Ramsey:And, oh, by the way, you know what we paid for our television channels? Nothing. There wasn't cable fees. There wasn't Netflix fees. There wasn't fee, fee, fee, fee, as many fees as a French poodle. I mean, there was no fees. You just turned it on, and it magically appeared in your dadgum house, you know, because you put this thing up on top called an antenna. You know, I mean, it was a different world, son. And so this idea that you guys can compare this and say there's an evil force at work to keep poor young people from succeeding is the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard when it's easier to make money today than it's ever been in the history of this country.

1:12:39Dave Ramsey:You just decide you want to do something, you start an app. Go do it. You want to set up a web store? Shopify will set it up for free and get you going. You're in business. Shut up. You can take used golf clubs and sell them on eBay and make a profit by the end of the day. Never in the history of man can you do stuff like that like you can do right now. This is the most wonderful possible time to be alive if you believe it is.

1:13:48Dave Ramsey:Grace is with us in Nashville. Hi, Grace. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

1:13:52George Kamel:Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call today.

1:13:54Dave Ramsey:Sure. What's up?

1:13:56George Kamel:So we just moved here to the Nashville area about four months ago. My husband is making 140 per year. I'm making 39. Yeah. Thank you. Very grateful. $39 per hour. For me, we have two kids that are in full-time daycare. Currently per week, it's$600. And I just moved everyone over to my benefits, so insurance. So I've got four on there and I dropped my paycheck biweekly pretty significantly. So I'm taking home 900 biweekly. So my question for you, and hopefully this should help other working moms and parents out there, is should I try to find supplemental income to cover the fact that I'm making less than what daycare costs per week?

1:14:53George Kamel:or should I not work?

1:14:55Dave Ramsey:Well, you put all the family's insurance on your tab, right?

1:15:01George Kamel:Correct, because I work in health care, so my insurance is pretty good.

1:15:06Dave Ramsey:Okay. So, I mean, if you are not working because you're not making net money, then the insurance would have to be on your husband's tab, right? Correct, yes. Okay. So what does insurance cost?

1:15:22George Kamel:So for four kids, sorry, four individuals, two kids, two adults, dental, vision and health with an HSA, it's six hundred and thirty. Yeah.

1:15:39Dave Ramsey:Dental and vision aren't worth the money. Usually, usually don't even break even on them. Yeah.

1:15:45George Kamel:Are you guys debt free? We currently have$6 ,000 on credit card due to unforeseen vet bills and some dental work that we had to have done. My husband's dental insurance was the best, so that's another motivation. So how much total is that? The total right now is$6 ,205. Okay.

1:16:10Dave Ramsey:And what do you do?

1:16:13George Kamel:I'm a physical therapy assistant.

1:16:16Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you're making what,$40 ,000?

1:16:20George Kamel:You said$40 ,000 an hour? That's closer to$80 ,000 at that point, right? Yeah,$39 ,000 an hour. Okay. Yeah,$39 ,000 an hour, yeah.

1:16:26Dave Ramsey:So you're making$80 ,000 and you're coming home with$48 ,000. Insurance is not causing that. It's$600 ,000. $600 ,000 is only$7 ,200 a year.

1:16:38George Kamel:Are you investing as well out of this paycheck? I am. That's part of it. How much are you investing? What percentage? Um, they're matching. I'm so sorry. I don't have that number in front of me. That's okay. There might be a few hundred bucks there, but it just still seems like something's off with this take-home pay. But either way, you got to look at the household income when you make this decision. Your husband makes$140, even with the money you're making. The daycare costs -

1:17:05Dave Ramsey:You make$220 a year.

1:17:06George Kamel:Yeah. So out of the, you know, you're bringing home probably$12K a month. so paying 2400 bucks for daycare it's not fun but it's that's not tanking you yeah you're

1:17:17Dave Ramsey:george is right when you put all the income together we don't worry about the fact that you don't take home enough for daycare um unless we're unless there's something we need to figure out in the what you're purchasing out of your check that needs to stop that's a possibility but um i mean if you're having too much withheld to where you're causing a refund we don't want to do that. If you're buying insurance that's not needed, we don't want to do that. Or insurance is not a good deal. We don't want to do that. The HSA is a good plan usually. But if you're making 80 grand, an$800 daycare bill does not make you not work.

1:17:59Dave Ramsey:Other stuff combined with it, and if you pull it all and put it all on your ticket and your husband's money's all free and clear instead of lumping them all together and running it as a household it makes it look like

1:18:10George Kamel:that you're broke but you're not broke if you guys made 70 and your portion was 30 then i'd say okay maybe we should look at pausing daycare and you stay home at 2400 bucks a month but i'm not seeing that this is not the solution to the problem i'm sorry 800 bucks a week you said 600 a week

1:18:27Dave Ramsey:daycare 600 okay so 2400 a month oh i did it 600 a month i goofed oh my bad yeah okay so it's not That's 7 ,200. Yes. Way off. Okay. I'm sorry. My bad.

1:18:36George Kamel:Yeah.

1:18:37Dave Ramsey:But still. No, it's okay.

1:18:38George Kamel:And I think you've, oh, sorry, go ahead.

1:18:40Dave Ramsey:That's okay. Go ahead.

1:18:42George Kamel:I think the biggest shock for me was just seeing that pretty big decrease from my paycheck, you know, once the whole family went on my insurance. So maybe.

1:18:51Dave Ramsey:Yeah, but the thing is, that's not a net net. If you quit and come home, you've still got that expense. It's just over on your husband's.

1:18:59George Kamel:And it might be more. We don't know. Right. Right. Right. And we already were on his insurance when we first moved here before I got the job. And his insurance, I mean, in comparison and what it covers and the co-pays and everything. Okay.

1:19:14Dave Ramsey:So here's the way we run the formula. Do you come home mathematically? There's other considerations than math. Your desire to be at home, you know, special situations with kids, all these different things are reasonable considerations. But the math, the way we run the math is pretend like we bought the health insurance on your husband's from your husband's company out of his check. Then look at what his check is. Right. And if that's what we've got to live on, can we live on it in our budget? Can we do a budget and pretend like I don't have an income? Not counting insurance because the insurance has got to move over to his.

1:19:55Sure.

1:19:55Dave Ramsey:And if we can live on what he takes home after buying the family insurance and you want to go home, absolutely. But you've got to mathematically prove that out. And it's a misnomer to have the insurance in the, you know, act like it goes away when you quit because it doesn't. It moves over to his.

1:20:14George Kamel:Yeah. Yeah. So true. And maybe to like, you know. You pick up the daycare.

1:20:19Dave Ramsey:You pick up the daycare as a gain. You pick up whatever else is a gain. And, you know, you pick up wear and tear on your car to go to work, clothing to go to work. If you do dry cleaning for your clothing to go to work, any of that stuff that if you're any meals you're buying because you're tired from working and instead you're going to cook those at home from scratch. You pick up a lot of those kinds of things when you come home. And those are all valid considerations to take out of the budget. And then when we do all of that, can we live on his income without extra car expense, extra clothing expense?

1:20:54Dave Ramsey:No daycare cost. Can we live on his income, his take home pay? And you probably can, depending on where you're living in Nashville. You probably can. You know, 140 ought to be able to. But the only difference is you've got to pull the insurance and move it over. So the daycare, you're right, is just prohibitive. It just takes the fun out of this. that's 600 bucks a week god 2400 that's 30 000 a year the good news is it's a small portion of

1:21:22George Kamel:their actual take-home pay whereas for some people daycares half of their income for them it's 10 yeah so the the numbers i'll eat the ratios feel a whole lot better it might mean some sacrifices on the expense side right now but uh it sounds like you guys uh will have it under control here soon. Yeah.

1:21:39Dave Ramsey:And if you can figure out a way to do it, mathematically practice living on his take-home pay a month or two. That would mean all of your income plus insurance goes into the bank in savings or goes against that$6 ,000 in debt. Either one. Mathematically practice as if you weren't working and he had the insurance cost coming out of his.

1:22:01George Kamel:Yeah. Go make an every dollar budget. Do a fake one with this future of what this would look like to make yourselves actually put the facts on paper. And the other thing to think about here is pausing investing. Can we get out of the debt quick, get the emergency fund? I think that's going to give you some peace and you'll make the next move from a place of strength instead of feeling out of control.

1:22:19Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's where the math can talk to you and give you a certain assurance and then some of the rest of it, you just kind of push through and you go, okay, that's going to work i can do that um because in most fam dual household incomes uh there is a certain amount of uh pre-prepared meals or eating out that's due to both parents working and a fatigue factor yeah okay versus a one parent a mom for instance is at home cooking from scratch and that's her home economist is her job then we got to bring that back yeah they still teaching that? Home economics? I think it went out with shop.

1:23:02Dave Ramsey:This is why all the kids are doing DoorDash, Dave. This is a major crisis. Can't cut a board and can't make a biscuit. I'm just saying.

1:23:30George Kamel:Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the Money in Marriage Getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at$749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

1:24:22Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You guys jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Ava is in Charleston, South Carolina. Hi, Ava. How are you?

1:24:52George Kamel:Hey, Mr. Dave. I'm good. How are you?

1:24:54Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:24:57George Kamel:Thanks for taking my call. I guess there's a couple of different parts to my question, but the main thing is where do we start getting out of debt and how can I get my husband on board to better manage his trading, day trading that he does while we are doing that? Those feel like they're in conflict with each other. Would you agree? Absolutely. Yes.

1:25:21Dave Ramsey:So how much has he lost day trading?

1:25:25George Kamel:Well, a little bit of background. We got married three years ago, and right before we got married, he decided that he wanted to refinance the house, and he had just started dabbling in the trading stuff, and I think he got excited about how much he was getting. So he refinanced the house and got$200K back, and we turned it into a 15-year mortgage at$4 ,000 a month. And he put most, I would say he put 90 % of the money towards the day trading, and it's all gone now. So he mortgaged the house in order to gamble? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I just didn't realize, I guess, what was happening at the time. So where my confusion is is why he's not on the phone saying,

1:26:17Dave Ramsey:I pissed away 200K, my wife's getting ready to kill me, how can I straighten out my life? Instead, his wife calls and says, how can we manage around his little day trading problem?

1:26:30George Kamel:Absolutely. I agree with you, 100%. Where is he at with all this? It's been difficult. Does he think, well, I'll just day trade my way out of this one? Yeah. That's his game plan? I think so, yes. and part of it is I don't really understand all the trading stuff. I think you do.

1:26:52Dave Ramsey:I think you understand he turned$200 ,000 into zero. Worst magic trick ever. I do understand that part. Yeah.

1:26:59George Kamel:And it was kind of like when everything was going well and then it crashed. No, honey, it wasn't a crash. What's the statistic on day trading, George? 97 % lose money if they persist for more than, I believe it's 100 days or 300 days, A.K.A. pretty much nobody's making money from this and most are actually losing money. 97 % failure rate.

1:27:22Dave Ramsey:This is called don't do it. Okay, so here's where we start. You guys need to have a reset in your marriage, in your relationship, and in his head. And I can't help you. We can't help you. There is no Ramsey technique for continuing to lose$200 ,000 regularly and turning that into a wealth plan. we don't have the technique that's that good so what you've got to do is you guys are going to sit down tonight and go honey um you're doing cocaine and you're going to stop okay

1:27:55George Kamel:are you going to do that i have done that but he didn't stop he didn't stop and i i i can see that he's on it all day, every day. I can see that. And so I'm definitely not naive to think that he's addicted to it, I think. And I think he wants to try to fix whatever happened before, because we had that blowout about what happened before. But I'm just trying to figure out.

1:28:27Dave Ramsey:97 % of the people who do what he is doing lose money. Yeah. That's all of them, Ava. I'm sorry, honey.

1:28:38George Kamel:Yeah.

1:28:39Dave Ramsey:There's only one way your family survives is if this man stops doing this.

1:28:44George Kamel:And that's what I was wanting to hear because I'm all about him stopping it because we have to get out of debt. How much debt are you guys in?

1:28:52Dave Ramsey:They have$200 ,000 on their house. And what else? Extra$200 ,000 on their house.

1:28:55George Kamel:Well, to throw in something even more, we're actually getting a new house. We're putting our house that we have now on the market. No, you're not. You're broke. Yeah.

1:29:05Dave Ramsey:Your husband doesn't have an income.

1:29:06George Kamel:Well, that's what we're doing.

1:29:07Dave Ramsey:What do you make?

1:29:07George Kamel:That's what we're doing. What do you make? So I just stopped working about six months ago. I had my second baby, and I worked as a cardiac nurse.

1:29:18Dave Ramsey:And so what do you guys use for food money? How are you paying bills?

1:29:23George Kamel:She tells me that we just, right now, we have less coming in than what's coming out, which I do understand that, and I know that.

1:29:32Dave Ramsey:That's easy to calculate. My toddler could do that. How are you, how are you, you don't know how you're paying bills.

1:29:40George Kamel:I don't, and that's why, that's part of the reason why I'm calling, because I don't even know where to start.

1:29:44Dave Ramsey:Can you log into the bank account? Where we start is, you have a meeting tonight, and it says, honey, we're not buying a new house. We're broke. I'm scared. What you're doing is terrifying me. I have a new baby, and we have got to have a different system where I understand what's going on with all the money, and you have stopped day trading. If he does not do that, it's the same thing as him having a line of cocaine in the middle of the coffee table in the living room.

1:30:14George Kamel:You're letting a drunk drive the car right now. It's time you take over. He has an addiction. It's going to bankrupt the family, and you need to take over.

1:30:22Dave Ramsey:You guys have got to have some really radical changes. I don't think you're scared enough. I don't think you realize what's going on. Because at the rate you're going, I mean, no, you cannot work a system because there's no system that works through a 97 % failure rate. There's just not one. And I'm so sorry you're going through this with a new baby and everything else, and I'm killing your dreams. But I didn't kill your dreams. You just called up, and I gave you a reality check. So we love you guys. We want you to win. and there is no possible way, there is no possible way that cocaine addicts and day traders end up prosperous five years from the day they start.

1:31:06Dave Ramsey:Zero. It doesn't exist. It's a lie mathematically. If I thought he could win, if I thought there was a 20 % chance he could win, we can have a discussion. But when you have a 97 % failure rate, then you just don't do it. It's irresponsible to your wife and your kid. You have to be like a grown-up and stuff. And so, okay, I've got to go make money and pay bills and take care of my family, and then we'll worry about how we can build some wealth. But there's something broken in your house, and you guys have really got to – I'm so sorry, honey. You've got a real relational mess on your hands. And I'm scared that you're vaguely aware of it, but not as afraid as you should be.

1:31:57Dave Ramsey:And I don't want to create melodrama, but you're going to call me up as a single mom in eight months. Because you're going to realize that he's going to come in and they're going to start taking stuff out of the driveway. And the sheriff's department is going to start showing up at the door. and your house is going to get foreclosed on, both of them, the new one and the old one, that haven't been leveraged or that are leveraged. And, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm trying to, if I could get him by the shirt collar and just say, son, wake up, you're killing yourself and your family. Stop it. I would.

1:32:34George Kamel:But. He's got to care more about his family than his gambling addiction. Yeah. That's the only hope this relationship and this future has.

1:32:43Dave Ramsey:Amen.

1:32:44George Kamel:I'm sorry.

1:33:06Dave Ramsey:I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. scared doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover today at ramsaysolutions.com slash store.

1:33:46Dave Ramsey:Coordinators on Financial Peace University are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with an FPU class, and that deserves to be celebrated. Join us at the virtual 2025 Coordinator Rally this coming Thursday, July 24, to celebrate the impact that you coordinators are making. Whether you've coordinated a class before or you want to see what coordinating, leading an FPU class is all about, you're invited. You're going to hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel, Dr. John Deloney, and other special guests. We're giving away$3 ,000, so register for your chance to win. Register for free at RamseySolutions.com slash rally or click the note in the show notes.

1:34:25Dave Ramsey:Dominic is with us in Phoenix. Hey, Dominic, what's up? How's it going, sir? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

1:34:33George Kamel:So I'll be as brief as possible, but essentially my mother has been taking advantage of me financially over the last couple years. So trying to just figure out what the best steps are moving forward and how to set myself up for success.

1:34:48Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry, what does that mean? That sounds horrible. Your mother has been taking advantage of you. How old are you? I just turned 24 on Saturday. Okay. And what has your mother been doing to take advantage of you financially?

1:35:28George Kamel:as well as taking out multiple loans in my name, which I am now stuck with the payments on, in addition to co-signing the mortgage for the house, which she is now making several late payments on. So how old were you when all that happened? It's been going on for several years now. So it essentially first started when I was 20, when we first moved out here.

1:35:54Dave Ramsey:at what point did you realize this was not going to work and stop it

1:36:01George Kamel:essentially once at the beginning of this year once i moved out on my own and i realized the significance of how far behind i was on all of this it didn't really click to me when i was still living with her because i was just under her roof you know following her rules not really thinking too much of it until I tried to get my own place and realized again how far I was behind. And now seeing how my credit is completely ruined and these loan payments are just destroying me trying to take care of Brent on my own.

1:36:34Dave Ramsey:So how much debt have you signed up for to help your mom?

1:36:39George Kamel:So the house is, I want to say, over$400 ,000. Aside from the house, you co-signed the house. the other debts are just in your name right yes correct so the loan payments are in my name only those equal to about I want to say four thousand as of right now again I've been making the on-time payment so four thousand dollars get you

1:37:03Dave Ramsey:out of this mess not counting the co-signature on the house and then I

1:37:07George Kamel:also have a vehicle loan of about eight thousand dollars who's got the vehicle

1:37:10Dave Ramsey:you or her it's me oh so you have that okay yes yes okay so the abuse was$4 ,000 plus co-signing a mortgage?

1:37:22George Kamel:Correct. Okay, what do you make? I'm on track to make about$50 this year.

1:37:29Dave Ramsey:Good for you. Okay. All right, so here's the good news. The math of the abuse is a 1.5 to a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10. the emotional damage that your mother did this to you is a 10 out of 10. Correct. It breaks your heart, and it confuses you as a young man trying to get started. The person who should be the most taking care of you instead has been taking advantage of you. Yes, 100%. So real simple, just clean up$12 ,000 worth of debt. Pay off your car, pay off the loans as fast as you can. The sooner you get them paid off, the sooner – because every time you write a check or submit a payment in the computer, it rakes your fingernails across the chalkboard of your heart.

1:38:26Dave Ramsey:It hurts again. And so I want that out of your life. I want the$4 ,000 loan paid off as soon as possible. If you work – do you have any money saved? No. It's honestly at this point it's so difficult. And you just got out and you just got a$50 ,000 job. Okay. And you're working 40 hours? Yes. Okay. I want you to pick up a side hustle. I want you to pick up a side hustle. And I want you to pay off this$12 ,000 really, really fast. Okay. Like before Christmas I want it gone. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, if you don't have a car payment and you don't have$4 ,000 in debt, the only outstanding problem is the co-signing on the mortgage.

1:39:04Dave Ramsey:Does that make sense? Yes. Okay, and she's going to continue to trash your credit because she's not going to pay it on time, and you're not going to pay it. You do not pay it. Do you hear me? Do not pay the house payment. Yes. Under any circumstances, do not pay the house payment. Okay. Now, what is owed on the house in total? Do you know?

1:39:25George Kamel:Again, I was just looking on Experian, and I believe it's at$430 ,000. What do you think the house is worth? There's not going to be, it doesn't have much equity on it at all. We just moved in last year, I believe, so we'd be lucky to get what it's worth.

1:39:43Dave Ramsey:Okay, I thought you refinanced the house to pay the scam, not to move in.

1:39:48George Kamel:No, no, it was never refinanced. It's just everything that we had come out of pocket, because she had the money at the time to pay, but then they just the scam was a total of almost a hundred thousand dollars that she gave including the 10 000 that i gave her out of pocket so the house is oh so you lost ten thousand dollars of your money yes where did you get that all these things um at the time i was just saving up because i was still living with her so it was a lot easier to to save up at the time um i was paying her rent as well, but not nearly what I'm paying now living on my own.

1:40:24Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Man, I'm so sorry. This is such a scar and such a thing to emotionally overcome. So the only way the co-signing goes away is if she refinances the house or sells the house and pays off the mortgage. Until then, your co-signature is going to be tearing up your mortgage, tearing up your credit forever.

1:40:44George Kamel:And the fact that you had to co-sign tells me that she can't afford this on her own if She chose to refinance, which means she can't live there.

1:40:51Dave Ramsey:So your best case scenario is you talk her into selling the house to get both of you free. That's not likely. This woman is not concerned about other people. She's concerned about herself. But if you can talk her into that, that's your best case scenario. Your next best case is just wait it out and your credit gets destroyed until someday she wakes up and sells the house. Okay. Your third option, which is not a good one, but it's an actual option, is to sue her and cause the house to be sold because she's not paying the payment and she's destroying your credit. But I don't recommend that. It's going to be very expensive and you will never have a conversation with your mother again, even though I'm not sure that would be a bad thing in this case.

1:41:39George Kamel:The house is going to get sold. The question is, do you want to do it with her under control or someone selling it for her in a foreclosure?

1:41:46Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

1:41:46George Kamel:The lender going, hey, you got to get out.

1:41:48Dave Ramsey:If she comes to you for a payment, do not give her a dime. Did you hear me?

1:41:56George Kamel:Yes, sir.

1:41:57Dave Ramsey:I hear you. Are you going to do that?

1:42:00George Kamel:Of course. I'll never make a payment towards that ever again.

1:42:04Dave Ramsey:If you ever give her another dime, then you fall back into the web of the spider, okay? Correct. Don't do it. You've got to walk clean and go make a life for yourself and then forgive her from that position of strength because she's obviously messed up. I'm so sorry. She was so scared and so desperate after getting scammed that she trashed her own child. And that's how afraid she was. And that's a sad, sad thing and a sad place to be. And I'm sorry for your broken heart. So lastly, Dominic, I think if I were you, I would sit down with a good local pastor, make sure you get a relationship built in a good church and get around some people who treat people well and love people well and don't take advantage of people.

1:42:56Dave Ramsey:Because you need some normal human beings in your life. Because you haven't had one in a while.

1:43:02George Kamel:You've had a lot of trauma.

1:43:03Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I'm sorry, man. I'm so sorry. It's bad. Some people's parents.

1:44:01George Kamel:We'll see you next time. So just head to fpu.com slash rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com slash rally.

1:44:28Dave Ramsey:Buying or selling a home is a big deal. and with all the clickbait headlines and confusing data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. If you want to know what's happening with the latest trends, what prices are really doing, how many houses are really on the market, what the actual interest rates are, not a bunch of garbage, but what the actual facts are, ma 'am, just the facts, ma 'am. Yeah, check it out. You can go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes. On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Ryan and Chelsea are with us.

1:45:00Dave Ramsey:Hey, guys. How are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, George. How are you doing? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Memphis, Tennessee. Awesome. And how much debt have you two paid off? We paid off$164 ,000. Awesome. How long did that take? Just shy of 12 months. Whoa. Wow. And your range of income during that year? $300 ,000. All the way through. Okay. Very cool. What do you all do for a living?

1:45:20George Kamel:I'm an HR manager.

1:45:22Dave Ramsey:And I'm a pilot. Ah, very good. Maybe FedEx? Maybe. Maybe. All right. Very cool. Good for you guys. Very fun. Well, Memphis, welcome to Nashville. $164 ,000. What kind of debt was this? It was a house. You paid off your house? How old are you two weirdos?

1:45:38George Kamel:I'm 29.

1:45:40Dave Ramsey:I'm 34. And you have a paid-for freaking house. Yeah. What's the house worth?

1:45:44George Kamel:$350 ,000. Woo-hoo!

1:45:46Dave Ramsey:Fantastic. I love it. Not even 30 years old for you. Yeah. Wow. That's so weird. I love it. And how much have you guys gotten your nest egg nowadays? Retirement. About 550 for retirement. So you're just in about 20 minutes going to be Baby Steps Millionaires.

1:46:06George Kamel:That's right.

1:46:06Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Way to go, guys. Way to go. I'm so proud of you. Wow, you are a power couple here. Thank you. So what happened that made you guys go nuts and do this Ramsey stuff and get your house paid off by 30 and 34 years old?

1:46:20George Kamel:We actually got married a year ago in June, and we were both Ramsey people before we even met. So we were just on the same team. Was it like a Ramsey dating app you guys met through? What happened here? It was. It was. Yeah. No. There's not one, but yeah. There should be. No, we met and we started talking and we found out within a couple of dates that we were both on the same page financially and most of our beliefs.

1:46:45Dave Ramsey:And so whenever we got married, we just had a plan to knock it out as fast as we could. Yeah. And just combine income and pay this off. One of you already owned the house before marriage? Yeah.

1:46:54George Kamel:I started on it a few years before. Okay. Yeah.

1:46:57Dave Ramsey:Okay. So you marry, he moves into your house. Now it's our house. And now we're going to spend 12 months at over$10 ,000 a month going on this thing.

1:47:08George Kamel:Yeah.

1:47:09Dave Ramsey:Wow. That is incredible.

1:47:11George Kamel:Look at what happens when two fiscally responsible adults get together. I mean, you guys are just like the exponential wealth building is so inspiring.

1:47:19Dave Ramsey:I'm just betting neither one end up in Congress. That's what I'm betting. I hope not. Yeah. They're better off doing this. We would be better off, but not them. So pretty amazing, y 'all. So did you grow up with this stuff? Or, I mean, where did this come from?

1:47:34George Kamel:He found it earlier on in life than I did. Yeah, my parents always lived on a very similar mentality dealing with money. But it was actually a gentleman that I worked with at a theme park in Branson called Silver Dollar City. And he introduced me to your teachings in about 2011, 2012.

1:47:51Dave Ramsey:And I was just like, wow, this makes so much sense. Okay. Yeah. So you were, that's before, obviously before you were a pilot.

1:47:57George Kamel:Well, I was in flight school. I had one year left, so I finished it up and pretty much everything I made from there on out went to school loan. So this is my second debt free. Ah, love it. That's great. Very good. Very good. Did you expect to do it in 12 months? Did you guys have a goal in mind? We had a goal. Yeah. Initially we were thinking about 15 or 16 months and then we kind of got a little tighter with the money and we thought it was going to be 11 and it was about 11 and a half. Wow. Was it kind of addictive as you got going? You're like, how much fast can we do it? Can we beat our goal?

1:48:23George Kamel:oh yeah especially towards the end yeah you gamified it both yeah yeah we were so ready to

1:48:28Dave Ramsey:be done i want the purple ring yeah i like it yeah what's next for you guys i mean your baby

1:48:34George Kamel:step seven at 30 29 and 34 yeah what are you looking forward to uh i mean a new car new car yeah she's still driving her high school car so uh yeah that's coming up definitely definitely an upgrade yeah it's time yeah it is absolutely yeah and that's it just living and giving like no one else now yeah we we like to live modestly and um vacations is kind of our thing so that's that's what we look forward to what's the big vacation what would be the next big one oh man i got one you're dreaming about he'd love to go to the maldives that's probably maybe next for us yeah i thought we'd go back to branson a little silver dollar city action you know

1:49:15George Kamel:what do you tell you know a young couple out there who's looking at you guys going well must be nice for them you know i've heard that a lot and and personally i think uh it's easier if you're like if you're doing any type of thing in life whether no matter what it is easier to have a teammate than an opponent so be on the same page it's good good line yeah nice line yeah and um

1:49:37Dave Ramsey:you know you guys got a great income between the two of you that's that doesn't hurt the math in this process at all but um but you also just set a very clear goal complete agreement and unity on the goal and, you know, just attack plan. I mean, sounds like a pilot with a flight plan to me. Yeah. And there was zero lifestyle creep with your story, which is so rare.

1:49:59George Kamel:Usually we took calls today where someone made 300 grand and they were broke. Yeah. And yet you guys took control of it day one because you were on the same page aligned with your values, your vision, where you wanted to go. And I think that is, that might be the secret sauce. Was there any other kind of secret sauce that caused this to happen? What was the key to getting out of debt? No, you pretty much hit it on the head there. If you are intentional with the money when it hits your bank account and you put it where it needs to go before you have a chance to be tempted to spend it, there's no temptation left because it's not there.

1:50:29George Kamel:It's where it needs to go. You got to pre-decide. Absolutely. If you decide when the money's in your bank account, you're going to mess it up. Oh, yeah. But if you pre-decide where it's going to go by doing a budget, having a goal, it's amazing how your money will behave. Love that.

1:50:44Dave Ramsey:so did you have people cheering you on everybody oh yeah really yeah they were going for you you didn't have any detractors anybody say you were crazy no not very many really no that's good that's good well you don't really talk you're not the kind of people tolerate that anyway so you seem to surround yourself with quality people yeah we do that's what i mean yeah well done you guys we're very proud of you thank you so much excellent excellent excellent 29 and 34 almost Baby Steps Millionaires paid for house worth$350 to$400 now in the Memphis area. Very, very cool. Excellent, excellent work.

1:51:19Dave Ramsey:All right, Ryan and Chelsea from Memphis, Tennessee, house and everything. $164 paid off in 12 months, making$300. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

1:51:32George Kamel:Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free!

1:51:44George Kamel:Sky's the limit for these two.

1:51:46Dave Ramsey:Yeah, and I'm trying to capture in my head, there's something very cool about how they met. I didn't ask about that. And the fact that they chose each other. Because that's like paramount to this. Both of them had common sense. Both of them had some understanding of how to build wealth and get debt free before they even met. And then they managed to meet. So there's, you know, all the jokes about getting married to the wrong person are not jokes.

1:52:22George Kamel:Yeah.

1:52:23Dave Ramsey:And so, you know, it's like, you know, I remember one years ago when we were on the air, we used to people send in stuff. It's like, you know, a guy that marries a woman that likes to spend better, better like to earn or something stupid like that. And I'm like, you know, that's just no, what that is, is a life of hell. Yeah. That's what that is. And vice versa.

1:52:42George Kamel:These are two thoroughbreds up here instead.

1:52:43Dave Ramsey:If a lady marries a guy who's a freaking day trader, you know, I mean, oh my God, that's just hell.

1:52:48George Kamel:You can see how it can drag you down.

1:52:50Dave Ramsey:It's the polar opposite of, you know, two intelligent, wise, emotionally, spiritually mature adults aiming at the same thing together. It's like nothing can stop a couple like that. And so what stops most people is each other, not some little trick thing that you learn on Tic Tac. You know, it's that you married wrong. I mean, you know, or you almost married wrong. So, you know, I guess what's running through my head is just to preach and say, people, if you're single, it's worth it to slow down and, you know, marry a thoroughbred. Yeah. If you want to raise thoroughbreds, both of you need to be thoroughbreds.

1:53:32Dave Ramsey:Hello.

1:53:33George Kamel:You don't have to drag them to get them on board. Imagine just marrying them day one. You're both on board.

1:53:37Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

1:53:38George Kamel:It changes everything.

1:53:39Dave Ramsey:Pretty incredible. They're neat. What a neat couple. That's two thoroughbreds.

1:53:42George Kamel:They're pulling a lot of weight together because they're going in the same direction.

1:53:45Dave Ramsey:And they dropped that to house. Just popped. Just dropped it, man. That's cool.

1:54:03Thank you.

1:54:38Dave Ramsey:Galatians 5.1 is our scripture of the day. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Thomas Sowell said, People who refuse to face the reality of hard choices are forever coming up with some clever third way, often leading to worse disasters than any of the hard choices. That's the truth. I've done that one myself, but not as much as I get older. Ty is in Canada. Hi, Ty. How are you? Good.

1:55:08George Kamel:How are you?

1:55:09Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:55:12George Kamel:So right now I'm living in my mom's house at 22, and I have a baby on the way, but she's giving us a very nice option of$300 a month to rent here. And I'm on baby step two of your program, just starting, And I'm wondering if I should continue to save for a mortgage or if I should just focus on baby step two, debt snowball, and then after that, work on a mortgage.

1:55:43Dave Ramsey:What do you make, hon?

1:55:46George Kamel:I'm in the oil field, so it can be spotty, but last year I did about$110 ,000 after taxes.

1:55:53Dave Ramsey:What's your fiancée make?

1:55:56George Kamel:She's not working at the moment.

1:55:59Dave Ramsey:When is she due?

1:56:02George Kamel:January 25th.

1:56:04Dave Ramsey:And she's not working. Why?

1:56:08George Kamel:I'm not 100 % sure. We thought that we would be able to do it on just my income, but I'm realizing from my crappy decisions that it might not work.

1:56:18Dave Ramsey:It's okay. Your debt is how much again?

1:56:22George Kamel:It's$75 ,000 total.

1:56:25Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. And what kind of debt is it?

1:56:32George Kamel:There's credit cards. There's some I owe to a phone company. There's some I owe to the government. And then there's some to trucks. You haven't been an adult enough long enough to take this debt on. What do you owe on the trucks? One truck I owe$4 ,500, and the other one I owe$60 ,000.

1:56:52Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right.

1:56:57Dave Ramsey:Well, you've got a lot on you at 22 years old, sir.

1:57:02George Kamel:Yeah. Have you been paying rent? How long have you been living with your mom?

1:57:09George Kamel:For since January. Okay.

1:57:12Dave Ramsey:I don't know if you're going to do all of this or not, because it's hard to give you a full life plan on one phone call on a podcast or a radio show, but I'm going to try, okay? So what would I do if I woke up suddenly in your shoes knowing what I know after all these years of coaching people out of debt into wealth and coaching them through everything? The data says that, and there's several pieces of research that back this up, that the probability of you becoming financially and marriage successful, successful in your marriage, successful in your relationships, is that you get married before the child is born.

1:57:55Okay?

1:57:55Dave Ramsey:Correct, yeah. That's an old-fashioned thing, like a shotgun wedding, we would have called it back in the day. Like her daddy has a shotgun, right? That kind of thing.

1:58:03George Kamel:Yeah.

1:58:04Dave Ramsey:So you probably heard that metaphor. If you hadn't, you can go look it up now. But the, yeah, so number one thing I would do is I get married immediately. And number two thing I would do is I start looking for the least expensive one-bedroom apartment that is safe. Okay. I do not want anything fancy. I don't want anything that you're proud of even. And I don't want you to spend a bunch of money on furniture. You go to the rich neighborhood and go to a garage sale and buy a$6 ,000 leather couch for$60 and put it in the back of your truck and haul it over to the one bedroom apartment. And let's get started doing life together.

1:58:43Now, we're a married couple with a baby on the way in an inexpensive home, apartment that we're living in.

1:58:54Dave Ramsey:Okay? So far, I've given you two instructions. You follow me? Yeah. The third one is sell the truck. Okay. Truck's out of control. It doesn't fit. It's the most glaring thing in all of your facts. It stands out from all the other parts of your facts. All your other facts kind of make a little bit of sense. I kind of see how they are. And then there's like this truck. It's like pyrotechnics, like fireworks going off. When I saw that truck, it's like huge. It's by far the dumbest thing you've ever done in your life. So far.

1:59:30George Kamel:Absolutely, yeah.

1:59:31Dave Ramsey:So far.

1:59:32George Kamel:I realize that.

1:59:33Dave Ramsey:And so that's, and I've done dumber, but I mean, it's kind of what I do around here. and George does is we look at this stuff we go okay how can we help this couple become prosperous and be a good dad and a good mom a good husband and a good wife and have a great life when eight years from today when they're 30 and they look back and go you know that was a hard patch but we got through it together and we had our first baby and we started life in that little one-bedroom apartment driving a a five thousand dollar truck because dad got rid of that sixty thousand dollar truck and then the kids can tell this story to their grandkids someday that the old man ty he's the one turned it all around when mama when grandma got pregnant when that first baby they get they got they got it together and they started locking arms and they started working their tails off and living on less than they make and living on a budget and sacrificing to win and they're the ones that made this family rich and you're that guy yeah that's who i want you to be right

2:00:30George Kamel:The one question I have is like, so I have two vehicles at the moment, but one of them is broke down, doesn't work, but I still have to make payments on it. And the other one, my newer one, is how I get to work due. What would you suggest I do for getting... Just get the cheapest possible car that'll get you to work. Okay. What's it cost to fix the other one? Well, I need a new engine, so about$7 ,000. What could you sell the truck for if it was fixed?

2:00:58Dave Ramsey:uh probably 15 20 grand okay well what we would do around here is we would buy a used engine from a salvage yard a junkyard a recycling yard whatever you want to call them from a truck just like the one that you had that got totaled but the engine is it's got 25 000 miles on it we pluck that engine out of there and drop it into that thing it's going to cost you about three grand instead of seven, and I'd get three or four of my buddies and drop that engine in there one weekend and get that sucker sold. Yeah, I think we could do that. I think you can, too.

2:01:31George Kamel:What's the$60 ,000 truck worth when you get that loan on? Well, I just got it, so I probably wouldn't get much for it if I sold it back. It was$65 ,000 price tag.

2:01:44Dave Ramsey:Okay, so maybe you can get out of it even.

2:01:46George Kamel:Yeah, even if you break even. I just want to make sure you weren't underwater by$20 ,000 or something. Yeah, you're not. Not yet. You will be if you keep it two more months. And I think your fiance is going to have to get to work and help clean this up.

2:01:56Dave Ramsey:She doesn't do anything super strenuous. I don't want to put the baby in jeopardy or anything. But there's some things she can do for money that are legal and moral. And I would go and do those right now. Okay. And instead of sitting and not doing anything. Because anything we can throw at this situation. Here's the thing. This time next year, dude, you could be married in an apartment and no debt. with an emergency fund man that's a peaceful place to be one year you're gonna have a whole and be 23 years old and on your way and then when i get to talk to you again in your 30 you're gonna call me back tell me you're a millionaire because i leaned in pretty hard on you that day on the radio because i want you guys to win for the sake of that baby i want you guys to have a good life and so it's time to move on from high school now man time to time to buckle up buttercup here we go that's what we're going to do and you can do this you can do this you're going to be the old man that turned everything around and changed your whole family tree and they'll look back and talk about grandpa someday um and they may make jokes about him they do about me but i'm the guy turned the whole thing around too so shut up it stopped with me i'm the last one i'm the last one i declared that and you can make that declaration and i can hear it in your voice then you can be the last one.

2:03:15Dave Ramsey:You can decide. You changed everything in your life.

2:03:17George Kamel:Yeah.

2:03:17Dave Ramsey:Same thing. You're like, that's it. Change the family tree. Not doing this anymore.

2:03:20George Kamel:Break the cycle.

2:03:21Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And you got babies and dogs and wives and houses and, you know, complete, complete manhood. You know what I mean? We're doing stuff. Yep. And that can be done. It's just a matter of choices. And you got some real serious choices and you need to make them all fairly quickly here. Put an engine in that truck, get it sold, get the$60 ,000 truck sold, get a one bedroom, affordable apartment. she can pick up a job of some kind doing something until she's late stages and she's not there yet. And six months from now

2:03:51George Kamel:when that baby's in this world it's going to be a different story. Yeah. And a year from today

2:03:55Dave Ramsey:way different story. Absolutely. That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus. those phenomenal stories.

2:04:18George Kamel:What if you could watch The Ramsey Show before anyone else? Well, good news. Now you can. For the first time ever, you can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode, today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey Network in Google Play or the App Store, or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.