Life Is Complicated. Money Doesn't Have To Be.

27:26You got to come up with that$10 ,000. There's two ways to do it. Either you save up$10 ,000 cash or you go down to your local credit union and get a personal loan for$10 ,000 plus whatever you might need for a beater car. And I'm talking$4 ,000,$5 ,000 off Facebook Marketplace max. That's the only way out. If you said, hey, I want to get out by the wedding, that's the way to do it. How much do you make? I make about$40 ,000 a year in pest control. Okay. Is there upside there? Can you make$50 ,000,$60 ,000 if you started hustling? I could. There's opportunity for upsells and upgrades here. Get about$150 every single one.

28:07okay because i know you can make really good money in pest control the guys who are crushing it are not making 40 they're making 100 plus yeah so i would be aiming to make more money that's going to be part of this process do you have any other debt outside of the 28k car loan um so we're like engaged i have her ring uh two and then you finance Yeah, I did. I did. How much was that? I think it was like 800. But like I wanted to get I had the cash for it, but I wanted to get like the coverage for the ring and they were going to charge me more. So I was just like, OK, you took why. Why do you have a coverage on there, too?

28:49Let's pull back because here's what I see what's going on. And you're not the only person, Zephaniah, who falls victim to this. you walk in the place and you probably have something in your mind. Oh, I want to get a car. Oh, I want to get a ring. And then somebody says, well, if you get this one, we'll give you this deal. And you kind of, before you know it, you're getting swindled into paying more. You're getting swindled into paying in a way that you didn't plan to pay. In this case, you went into payments instead of using cash. You've got to decide who you are with money and don't let the salesperson decide for you.

29:21That's the one piece of advice I want you to take from this entire call is Zephaniah has to decide who, what, what is my money philosophy? Am I a person who doesn't borrow money? If that's the case, it doesn't matter if I walk into a jeweler, a car lot, or walk into Publix. I'm not borrowing money. I'm not putting it on a credit card. I'm not putting it on payments. That way, when you walk into those places, no matter what they say, you just go, no, thank you. And you just move on. Right now, you're kind of just going with whatever the salesperson tells you. So as you get married and as you grow into being an older adult, please, please, please, you decide who you are with money.

29:57Nobody changes that. So that's thing one. And thing two is just remember these people are sales people. They're not, the business they're in is not to do you a favor. Okay. Just remember that there is a hero and a villain in every story. And I'm not saying that the person who sold you a ring was a bad guy. I'm not saying villain, like they're a bad person. I'm simply saying their point is to make money. Your point is to save money. Your point is to stick to your guns and stick to your philosophy on money. So just understand the two roles when you go into those situations. And I think that's going to help you out a lot in the long run going forward.

30:32Yes. What does your fiance make? Right now, she is not working. She just landed a job part time at an after school program. and she'll be making like$21 an hour there. Cool. Well, you'll both be making about$40 ,000 at that point. You'll have$80 ,000. And so even if you went into the marriage and you still had this debt, you guys could knock this out fast and save up$10 ,000 and get out of it and get a cheaper car. You don't need to be driving a$30 ,000 car if you make$40 ,000. That is simply too much car.

31:26health insurance is confusing on purpose you call one company get transferred three times sit on hold for 45 minutes and end up more confused than when you started that's why i recommend health Trust Financial. They're health insurance advisors who actually get to know your situation and help you find the right coverage for your life and your budget. Healthcare needs change as your life changes. Maybe it's a job change, the birth of a child, a new diagnosis, or you're just trying to have more margin at the end of the month. No matter your situation, Health Trust Financial shops multiple top-rated insurance carriers and helps you understand what you're actually buying.

32:14I've trusted Health Trust Financial for over 20 years because they help Ramsey fans make smart health care decisions. Go to HealthTrustFinancial.com today and talk to a real person without pressure or confusion. That's HealthTrustFinancial.com.

32:52Jim is in Laredo, Texas up next. What's going on, Jim? Hey, what's up? I just want to ask a question. Should I pay my business loan with my personal savings? How much debt do you have? I have 57 on one truck, 20 ,000 on another truck, 30 ,000 on trailers, and I got 82 ,000 in a personal and business truck that I use as a personal and business truck. You got trucks on trucks. Are you the only employee? Are you the only owner? How's the business set up? I'm the only owner and I got another employee. Okay, what kind of business is this? It's a hot shot business. Hot shot, okay. What's hot shot? You're doing like courier work?

33:39Courier work, like trucking, but I don't have my CBL yet, so I'm doing hot shot for right now. So you're doing deliveries? Deliveries, correct. Okay, got it. What are you making? Because I'm new. When you're new, it takes about three, four months to start getting that business. So right now that I'm new, me and my other driver running, I'm probably making, I want to say, about$12 ,000 to$13 ,000 a month. Great. And Ronnie makes that too, your other driver? No, no, that's me and my other driver working together. We make between$12 ,000 to$15 ,000. Take home, that's take home,$12 ,000 to$13 ,000.

34:20But you're not taking it. You said it's split. it no no no i mean both of them combined because i'm i what i do we gross we gross about 25 25 to 30 000 a month okay and uh and uh after the expenses it's about about 12 12 to 15 000 a month uh-huh and then who gets what how much do you take home to your family and how much does your other driver take home to his family okay well it's a percentage it's a it's a percentage deal So for whatever he banks, I pay him 23%, and I usually just pay myself a salary of$1 ,000 a week. Okay. Oh, got it. So$4 ,000 a week is what you're taking in. How much do you have in savings?

35:03I have$320 ,000 in savings. Woo! Way to go. And I got$82 ,000 with a financial advisor that I just put in last week. So why all the debt if you have all the savings? Why not cash flow this? Man, it's because my credit started getting great, right? I have never had a good credit. My credit started getting great, and I just started piling and getting everything under credit. I do have rental properties that bring me in about$2 ,000 a month because I live in a small town, which rent is not that expensive. So it brings me in about$2 ,000 a month. How much debt is on those rentals? Zero. I got everything paid off.

35:44Way to go. So your only debt is this business debt, all these trucks and trailers? Yes, I got my house paid off. I got my rental properties paid off. Wow. The$320 ,000 I have, I have them in a high-yield savings account, so they give me about$800 a month on it. Awesome. Okay, so we've got, if I calculated quickly, what is this, around$190 ,000 of debt? So you could pay all of the debts off and still be left with$133 ,000 sitting in high-yield savings? Correct. That's pretty sweet. Have you done the math on what your cash flow would be if you didn't have any of those payments? If I didn't have any of those payments, it would usually be around, if everything continues as slow as it is right now, it would probably be about$12 ,000 a month.

36:36Dude, I'm going for that life. That's freedom. If things slow down, you're not stressing because guess what? The lenders don't care how slow things are. And you signed on that business debt, right? It's your signature? Yes. Well, my question is this because I wanted to pay all of everything except my personal business truck, which is$82 ,000. And I do have some cattles, right? I have about$13 ,000 worth of cattles on a property I'm renting for$5 ,000 a month. and I think I'm selling that so I can put it in getting my debt over. Yeah. I would still pay off everything, regardless of I can pay this off and then pay this off.

37:16You can pay it all off today. So if you sell anything else, that's just pure profit. You can do what you want with that. In your mind, what's the upside of keeping the debt? What's the upside? Just on the personal and business truck, I want to keep that one because it's a motivation I get for working. You know, it's a motivation. You're motivated by the debt to work harder? On that business truck, on my business truck, you know, because it was the truck I always wanted. So that's why I got it. Well, we're not saying to sell it. We're simply saying to pay it off. So we're not saying get rid of it.

37:51It'll have just as much sentimental value without a payment attached to it. So here's the Ramsey principle. We recommend everyone start and run and grow their businesses completely debt free. because we have seen what the other side looks like. People call in, the business didn't make it, something happened, a partner wanted out and they are stuck because of these payments. It also changes the choices you make. When you have debt on a business, everything is about making sure you're in line to make the next payment. Everything is filtered through the lens of risk and debt. When everything is paid for, it changes the choices that you make.

38:25I mean, take a moment. I don't know how easy it is for you to compartmentalize this, but surely you understand the difference a feeling you had when your house had a payment on it versus when your house became debt-free, when your rentals had payments versus when your rentals became debt-free. There was a reason that you worked so hard to achieve that. And we're simply saying, take that same logic and throw it over to this business set. We think that you'll feel better about the state of your affairs if you do that. And can I ask that, after all that money, I also have, because I always had a system right to always keep $30 ,000 in my business account.

39:02Yep. So I also have those$30 ,000 on business account. Keep that there. And I do got toy trucks, you know, and people and like my family members, because I talked to a couple of my family members, they tell me to sell them, but they're like my toy trucks. I don't know if I should sell them. Toy trucks as in these are real trucks, but they're just entertainment for you. Correct. They're in cash? They're paid off? Yeah, they're all paid off. I have a, it's an 87 Chevrolet. I put in about 11 ,000 and last week they offered me 20 ,000 in it. I think it's up to you. I think it's up to you. What feels better?

39:37Do you want to keep your toy trucks because you like them or do you want to liquidate some of your savings? That's totally up to you how you do it, but maybe you sell the cattle and the land. Whatever you want to do, that's up to you. We just think that across all of your assets, you have the ability to pay off this$190 ,000 in debt very, very easily. And still tons left over. Yeah. Do it. After everything you said, Jim, I'm like, how does this guy carry this all in his brain? You've got nine businesses. There's debts all over the place. Toy trucks. I would just want to simplify my life if I was doing as well as you.

40:09So part of that is getting completely debt free. Appreciate the call. All right. Let's go out to Landon in Rochester real quick. What's going on, Landon? Not too much. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? so me my fiancee are on baby step number four we just graduated college in december debt free and i'm just curious i've been putting a lump sum into my roth for the last couple years at the end of my summer job in september should i keep putting in a lump sum now that i got a big boy job out of college or do i spread it out and have it take out of my checking you know through the 12 months So you're really asking, do I do lump sum or dollar cost average?

40:53Yes. Okay. Well, here's the theory. And again, nobody knows what the markets are going to do. But the sooner you get the money in and the longer you let it sit, the better off you're going to be. So if you lump sum in January versus putting it January, February, March, April, May and spreading it, you will likely do better if you lump sum at every January. Okay. There's also a psychological component of when you can set it and forget it, right? It's automatically taken out of your check. It's not something that you're thinking of. My contributions come out of my check automatically. I never even count the money because I never even saw it to begin with.

41:26And if you do a lump sum, let's pretend the markets are up or really down, whatever makes you feel awkward about investing. Yeah, at the end of your summer gig, now it's September and you're like, oh, the market took a dip and now I'm going to lump sum it. Well, hey, you're buying it on sale or hey, the market's doing really well. Well, you're buying it at the top. And so there's, there's that piece of it. And there's a piece of now you've got to trust yourself that I'm putting this money aside. I'm saving it. It has to stay there. And hopefully there's not a wedding in the Caribbean. That sounds really good to me.

41:57Right. And I use that money for that instead. You sound pretty disciplined in what you've been doing this for years now. Yeah. I'm, I mean, I pretty much owe everything to my parents for letting me do this. are pretty big believers in you guys. I've been listening to this show since my dad was picking me up at elementary school. And I was like, oh, I'm glad Dave's not here. That'd make him feel real old. But I love it, man. It's a great problem to have. If you're even asking this question, it tells me you are going to build generational wealth. So keep it up. Just keep investing no matter what.

42:41Here's what nobody warns you about. You're behind on payments. You signed up with some debt settlement company. You're making your monthly payments to them. And then one morning, a process server knocks on your door. Surprise, you just got sued by a creditor. And that company you trusted? Not a law firm. They're not built to represent you if things escalate. And now you're scrambling to figure out what to do next. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian Litigation is not a call center. They're actual attorneys at a law firm. And from day one, you're assigned a real attorney who can represent you if a creditor takes you to court.

43:13No scrambling when things go sideways, just real legal protection built in from the start. And look, the best way out of debt is still the budget, the plan, the baby steps. But if you're already in default and legal threats are coming your way, Guardian has your back. Their attorneys have helped over 55 ,000 people settle more than$600 million in debt. So get real legal help at guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's GuardianLIT.com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

43:49Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Baltimore. What's going on, Sarah? Hey, thanks for taking my call, guys. Absolutely. So my question is, how do I handle the stress of being the person in my family responsible for making the financial decisions? Wow. That was the nicest way to say I'm resentful of my husband for not being involved in the financial decisions. Yeah, why is it like that? So my husband is really bad with numbers. Like, we're fairly confident he has, like, a learning disability with math.

44:34He's bad with numbers. Okay. So there's something going on. Because the thing is, he trusts me a lot. And he will do whatever I tell him to, even if it's uncomfortable for him. If I tell him it's a no spend week until bills get paid on Friday, he won't spend a dime. the first week where we really got serious about doing Ramsey plan and stopping with the credit cards was the week of Father's Day. And I didn't have anything planned for Father's Day. And I said, I don't have anything planned. If we want this to be like our last hurrah with a credit card to do something special for you for Father's Day, because you did something special for me for Mother's Day, I can do that.

45:12And he said, no, this is the plan that you said we're supposed to do. And so we're going to do it. Right. He trusts me a lot. It's terrifying. but okay there's two I'm seeing this in two ways though there's I'm bad with numbers meaning I don't like arithmetic and I don't like crunching numbers and I don't do you see what I'm saying like that there's that side of it and then there's the side of if you explain something to me if it has anything to do with money I don't get it and it doesn't sound like it's that it sounds like he's just not interested in crunching numbers and doing the arithmetic part of it but it sounds like he's willing to be part of the plan and it sounds like he's willing to go over the budget with you and agree to the numbers.

45:55Am I missing something? No, yes, he's willing. He just does whatever I tell him is the right thing to do. But I think what's happening is here is my wife calls this the mental load. There are things that he never has to deal with that are stressing you out and you're feeling like, man, I'm carrying 95 % of this in my head and I feel like he should be pulling more weight? Yeah. And then, so we're, the debt picture's not pretty. We've got about $87 ,000 in consumer debt and$217 ,000 left on our mortgage. Okay. What do you guys make? So what we are going to be making, I work for the school system and I just got into a full-time position at the end of the year.

46:42He pre-tax brings in about 65 and I pre-tax I'm going to be bringing in about 67. Okay. So let's pan back just real quick. So George said it beautifully, you're feeling the mental load and it shouldn't be that way because what we teach is that both people should have a say in the budget. It's okay if one person's more of a nerd and likes numbers and the other person hates numbers, that's okay. But both people have to have a say and a vote. And for the person who tends to be way more relaxed, like, yeah, honey, whatever you wanna do, that's not allowed. And the reason that's not allowed because right now it may feel like they're checking out.

47:24And obviously right now the mental load becomes more for you, but on down the road, you don't know when he's gonna decide he cares. And he might wake up and decide, oh gosh, I feel like I don't have a voice or I feel like she's lording this over me or I feel like she's controlling. And now there's some resentment that has the potential to breed. Or on your side, man, I've been carrying this for years. He doesn't care, right? So over time, the stakes on this get really high. And so today what you need to do is go to him and say, I understand that I'm more of the nerd. I understand that I'm more of the mathematician, but I need for you when we go over the budget, I need for you to come to me with three suggestions every time.

48:02That's the only thing I need from you. So I know that you're asserting your opinion It's important for me to hear your opinion. And it helps me feel like I'm not carrying this all by myself because I don't want to. And I think if you let him know that that could help, have you done that? So I have. And his response to that has been that I, his response to that has been I can help by doing. And so he does. He works his butt off and he gets all the overtime that can give him. He cares about it. It's truly, because I've heard the stories and I've seen the marriages where the husband checks out, doesn't care.

48:45Yeah, whatever you want to do, I'm not really invested in this. So what are you actually wanting from him? Yeah, then what do you want? Like if I waved a magic wand, what would he be doing differently in this marriage?

48:56Oh, what a thought. I'm just wondering how much of this is on you to just own, like you go to therapy, you know what I mean? versus there's it sounds like everything you're saying like oh no he's great I just I can't help but think about all this more than he does because it is stressful Sarah being in debt is stressful and you do feel a weight there is a physical weight that you feel managing this and carrying this until it's done I'll be the first to tell you and George knows about it too so maybe that's just what you're feeling and there I will tell you there are points where you do want to offload it on to someone else.

49:30And when you're carrying that stress of debt, anything that happens, I mean, you're talking to someone who was in 460. And so anything that would happen, I was looking for ways to blame Sam Warshaw. I was just looking for a chance. So I totally get it. Unleash some of this pent up emotion. Yeah. The big thing there is that I blame myself. About half of the debt we're in is directly my fault. What kind of debt is this, the 87? Evan. So about 10 of its credit cards, um, and like small loans to my family. Um, 17 of it is student loans, uh, which would have been forgiven if I had actually applied for my employer's tuition reimbursement and I couldn't figure out the process.

50:11That's okay. You gotta let it go. 22 is a HELOC. And we owe$36 ,000 to my parents because our house was built in the 50s and had asbestos sighting covered in lead paint. Oh, man. And it started to fall apart. And so we had to get the sighting redone before my two-year-old stuck asbestos and lead paint in his mouth. But my parents, we have a formal loan set up with them. Loaned us that money at 0%. So it's still a part of our snowball. We're still hopefully going to pay it off before it comes due. We're making payments on it. What is the game plan here? Have you guys sat down and said, all right, we're going to be debt-free in 18 months?

50:56So I've made it all out, and we are going to be debt-free by September of 2031. What? That's too long. Possibly a little earlier. I just did some math, Sarah. You guys bring home, you'll be bringing home$8 ,000 a month. Right? I pay$575 a week in daycare. I'm saying what will you be bringing home? Bringing home, we should be bringing home after taxes and insurance. What? I'm 32. He's 36. My guess was about$100K net. Yeah, but I also am wondering, do you need an every dollar budget? because when you have an every dollar budget, you know those numbers lickety split. So we're gonna make sure that you have that because it's gonna help you.

51:47You might be doing a spreadsheet. I'm not mad at you, but every dollar is gonna help you more. So we're gonna give you that for free. Also, I'm gonna give you my book, What No One Tells You About Money because the things that you were laying out are exactly to the T, the things that I'm talking about in the book, everywhere from parents loaning you money to having student loans, to feeling the weight, to feel all of that is in the book. So you're gonna get that for free. And September of 2031. No, I'm going 2028. $3 ,600 a month out of your 8K, you're done in two years. It was that simple. Now go for it.

52:38business owners know it costs money to make the phone ring maybe it's advertising maybe it's referrals maybe it's years of earning trust but when that call goes unanswered all that work can disappear in a hurry. And that's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the business phone system built so you never miss a call. With Quo, you and your team share one business number so you can reply faster and stay on top of every customer conversation. Quo works from your phone or computer, logs calls, summarizes conversations, and gives you next steps. Nothing gets missed and every customer gets a response.

53:12And here's what I really like. Quo's built-in AI agent, can answer questions, handle after-hours calls, and even help book appointments, so you're not losing leads just because your team is offline. You didn't start a business to spend your days playing phone tag and digging through texts. Quo helps make sure you don't ghost the customers you've worked so hard to attract. Money is on the line, so always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20 % off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash Ramsey. That's quo.com slash Ramsey.

53:56We're heading to Columbia, South Carolina. Up next, Reese joins us there. Reese, welcome to the show. Hey, George. What's going on? Oh, we're losing you. Speak directly in your phone. a little better go to another room of the house uh yes um can you hear me good yeah that's better awesome um i'm pretty sure i'll take my call um jade and uh george um my question is how do i make sure i'm going into the into business with the right motives um i want to make sure i'm not needlessly guilting myself over wanting to make a profit but also i make sure i'm not chasing a every day. I just graduated college, no debt, and I'm a Christian and I want to have the proper values about everything, but I just don't want to get sidetracked along the way.

54:48What are your thoughts on getting paid for a job well done? Receiving what you earn for a job really well done? I think that's a great thing. Well then, all right. Do you have a job now? Yes, sir. What do you do? I'm manufacturing. And what do you want to be doing with this business? It'll be in sales. My family works in sales and I've worked in sales. I enjoy it. I just got to manufacturing in college. I'm confused. You want to start a business in sales? What are you selling? Sheds. Sheds, like lots of locations. I know the business really well and I know it'll do really well. Okay. So you want to sell sheds as a business?

55:31Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. So you work for a manufacturing company. How do you get paid right now? Is it out of the profits of the business? I'm hourly. Okay. But I'm saying the way they pay you is they make money, they take a portion of that money, and they pay you. Yes. Would you consider them to have bad motives in doing that? No, no. So where does the line come? What do you think? You described to us what it looks like. My screen says, how do I start a business without idolizing money or success? You explained to us what that looks like because then we'll know. if you know what it looks like then you'll know if you're venturing over into that territory so what does that look like so um one location i have where i have in mind i know it'll do really well it'll provide more than my basic necessity necessities and needs and looking down the road five years i'm like i'm knowing i could open possibly two or three or four of these lots yeah and when i question why would i want to and i'm like well i mean obviously it's gonna make more money.

56:32I can help more people. I can provide good jobs for people. But I feel a small amount of guilt where I'm just like, first thing that comes to mind is, oh, I'll make more money. And I'm just worried about if I go into that with that mindset that maybe lot two, three or four, I don't know. I'm worried about chasing a dollar more than providing a good moral service. and I see. I mean, I can understand what you're saying to an extent. But one thing that I've learned about money, I know George has learned this and you've probably heard Dave say it too. But when you are really good at something, you do tend to earn more.

57:11And what money does to you, it doesn't make you bad. It doesn't make you evil. It tends to make people more of what they already are. And so you're already a kindhearted person. I can hear that. You're already a generous person. And I can hear that. You're already a very thoughtful person. I can hear that. So it's probably going to bring more of that out in you. You're probably going to become more generous. You're probably going to become more thoughtful. All of those things. I can tell you this. And George and I peeked at the screen during the break. And we kind of read a little bit of what the call was about.

57:43And we thought to ourselves, gosh, the person who had the ability to idolize money would never call in saying, I'm afraid I'm going to idolize money. So that kind of solved our problem. Like, all right, Reese is not going to be an issue. You're not that guy. I appreciate that you're thinking about this. That was all I needed, I guess. That's all I needed. Yeah, well, there's no scripture that says making a profit is evil. So the question is, who is being hurt in the process of making these profits? Do you treat your team well? Do you treat your customers well? Are you doing everything ethically?

58:12Then you kind of know, all right, this is above board. So scaling a business, you're not better morally or have more virtue because you kept your business small. Yes. You know what I mean? That doesn't make you a better person than the guy who has scaled to 48 locations. So I don't want you to look at scaling as the immoral thing. I think it's always good to question, where is this ambition coming from? Am I actually discontent? Is it greed? Is it pride? What's driving this? And that helps you kind of gut check yourself along the way. But I'm excited for you to start this business. We need more good entrepreneurs out there.

58:48And I hope you're one of them, Rhys. I appreciate it. Thank you all. Absolutely. I love that question. I think that it's good that he's thinking about that. And I always think about the scripture. It's in Deuteronomy 8, 18, and it says, but remember the Lord, your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth. And so that just reminds me, oh, like he's giving me the ability to do this. It's not a bad thing. It's not a negative thing. All of the things point back to character, which is what you said earlier. Are you being a good person? Is your character, you know, morally right?

59:19All of those things are kind of separate from the matter, but producing wealth is a good thing. Yeah. I mean, profit equals abundance, and somehow we've confused abundance with evil. Yeah. And what you do with that abundance is very telling. That's right. But money is amoral. I mean, you know, a brick can be used to build a hospital. It can be used to break some windows. You get to decide. So I hope that helps, Reese. Appreciate the call. Joe is in Boise up next. What's going on, Joe? Not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? We're doing well. How can we help? I was just looking to see if I should sell my house.

59:51I've got quite a bit of equity in it. And unfortunately, we had to pull out of our 401k just to put a new roof on the place. I did have to work myself. But I just, you know, wonder when I should cut my losses because we just are not going to be able to buy what we have locally. Can you not afford the payment or are there other issues? No, we can afford the payment. It's just those, you know, those homeowner issues, like a new roof, for instance, you know, like it's going in on Friday. Well, like if an emergency fund solves your problems, let's not sell the house. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's just it.

1:00:27We depleted it, and then we get it up again, and then something else comes up. Tell us what you pay every month. What's the mortgage? The mortgage is$22. And what do you guys bring home every month? What's your after-tax monthly income? them so it's 70 a year before tax so call it like 38 38 doesn't feel right that feels you don't live in canada why are they taking half your taxes i got the before tax members not the after you say after pardon me okay i'm saying don't count 401k we're not investing right now while we got debt don't count health care we're just saying what is like after your federal and state taxes are paid we're bringing in, let's say,$4 ,500 a month.

1:01:12Yeah, that's probably closer to it. You have to pardon me. My wife's actually the breadwinner, and I'm the stay-at-home parent, yet I make all the financial decisions for us in the household. Okay. So based on that, your mortgage is half of your take-home pay. Correct. So I've already – it helps that there's multiple structures on the property, and I've turned one of them into a rental. So we're generating$1 ,500 a month from that. On top of your$4 ,500? Correct. Okay, so that brings us up to$6 ,000. Now it's a little over a third of your take-home pay. We recommend 25 % of take-home pay going towards your housing, whether that's rent, your mortgage.

1:01:50Correct. And so you're still over the line. It's putting you guys in a slight pinch, but I'm guessing there's a lot of other debts as well that you're trying to pay off? No, we actually have no debt. We have no car payments, no student loans, nothing. So we essentially took everything we had and invested it into this place. And it helps to note that we officially paid half price. It appraised at$500 and we paid$290. So, I mean, anyone would have jumped at the opportunity. So then this is a monthly cash flow problem. This is a month-to-month cash flow issue because, you know, a third is a little bit more than I'd want for a mortgage to be.

1:02:27But if you're saying you have no debt, nothing else going on, I'm looking and I'm thinking, and you're staying home with the kids so we don't have an astronomical daycare bill. I'm wondering if this is a budget issue. Do you guys have a budget? Yeah, we definitely have a budget. It just seems like lately all those costs keep going up and up. Oh, what costs? $4 a gallon here. Groceries is$400. It seems like every week now. Well, what's your margin? When you do the budget, what's your margin at the end of the month? You mean like percentage-wise? No, what's left over after? Margin is money that's left over after your bills are paid and after?

1:03:05Yeah. Yeah. So you bring home six,$2 ,200 is the mortgage. We probably have close to$1 ,000 over and above all of the bills. And then so... So you do have margin. It also helps to note that the house that I'm living in that I converted is half finished. I'm fine. Well, here's the good news, Joe. You guys have$1 ,000 in margin every month. Let's set up an emergency fund so we never have to be in this position again. I wouldn't sell the house.

1:03:36Thank you.

1:03:47If you're waiting for the perfect interest rate before you buy a home or refinance, that moment may never come. That's why people should talk to Churchill Mortgage. Because rates move every day. And when rates drop, buyers flood the market. Which means more competition and higher home prices. Smart buyers know they can't time the market. They move with a strategy. Buy the home you can afford now and refinance later if rates improve. Churchill helps you understand what you can actually afford, not just what you qualify for. And with their Certified Homebuyer Program, you can get fully underwritten before you shop, so you can make moves faster and make stronger offers.

1:04:23And right now, Churchill has a special offer only for the Ramsey audience. Go to churchillmortgage.com slash Ramsey Offer to learn more. That's a special website. Remember this, churchillmortgage.com slash Ramsey Offer. This is a paid advertisement. The Churchill Certified Homebuyer Program is available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumerexcess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

1:05:15slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Brendan in Wyoming. He says, my wife and I are tackling our combined debt of$60 ,000. Her student loan balances total$9 ,000 and mine total$51 ,000. I keep telling her we should just tackle all her debts first and then dive into mine. But she keeps saying we should list each and every one of the loans and tackle them individually. I would really love some clarity on how to do the debt snowball method starting with her loans seems more doable to me and would give us a bigger shovel for the remaining ones she is insistent that we should start with the smallest individual loan and work our way up from there who's right okay as usual it's her yeah she's right um and i you know brendan i understand what you're saying i i there's worse things you could probably do in life than do what you're saying so i'm not saying like what you're suggesting is bad or evil or wrong or anything like that.

1:06:12But if you're walking the Ramsey way, which is proven over millions of people over 30 years, that this is the best method, the debt snowball. And the reason for it is for people who really want to see it through the end and actually pay off their debt. The percentages are higher of people who actually pay off all of their debt, not just some of it. They're higher when you do the debt snowball method. So to clarify, with the debt snowball method, you list all of your debts by balance, not interest rate, not what you owe monthly. It's by full balance from smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything.

1:06:47And the reason for that is we don't want to get behind. We don't want 1-800-PAY-ME calling you, which are also bill collectors. So pay minimum payments. And then whatever is left over after all that, whatever margin you have, you throw it at the smallest debt. And what it does ultimately is, let's say you have a list of 17 different debts. You know, it feels really good to be able to knock off four of them, even if the balance was only$200 or$87 or$99. It just feels good psychologically to be able to, you know, cross those off. You feel good about it. You do get a dopamine hit and that makes you feel like you want to keep going.

1:07:20So that's kind of the nuts and bolts of how to do that. And George, I know you guys did it. You did it. Oh yeah, and I love, so I actually looked into this for my book, Jade, Breaking Free From Broken in there. I found that Time Magazine and Harvard Business Review who came out and said, turns out Ramsey is right. Based on the actual research, the data, here's the quote. People are more motivated to get out of debt, not only by concentrating on one account, but also by beginning with the smallest. So it's a both and, it's all about momentum. You need a quick win. It's more about behavior than the numbers.

1:07:48So we wish you guys the best in this debt payoff. Come celebrate when you're done. All right, Ryan is in Charlotte on the phone up next. What's going on, Ryan? Hey, big fan of you guys. Um, so earlier this year, my sister had passed away in a car accident and we'd recently received her AD &D and life insurance payout and my parents had split it between my brother and I. Um, and so I'm trying to figure out what the best way to make that money, like what's the best way to put that money to work for me? I'm currently in baby step two. Wow. Well, first off, we're so sorry for your loss. That sounds incredibly difficult.

1:08:34Hate to hear that for you. The second thing is, how much did you receive? So it was$20 ,000. Okay. And what do you have in debt right now for consumer debt? So I just have student loans. They total up to just about$85 ,000. Okay. So if you took that 20 and attacked the smallest balances, how many could you knock out?

1:09:04Let's see. Three? At least three. And then chunk another 10 into the big private one. Sweet. So you'd be making some progress and freeing up some payments right there. And now you're closer to the home stretch by doing that. How much do you make? I make$65 ,000. Is that your household income? Yeah. Yeah, I'm single. Okay. How old are you? I'm 25. Okay. Private student loans tend to have higher interest rates in some cases, but because they're private, sometimes there's some wiggle room. So I might call over there and just see if there's anything that they can do about any of these interest rates.

1:09:49If there's any just wiggle room, if there's any that they'd be willing to make a deal with you on. I know for Sam and I, we were able to make a couple of deals on some of our private student loans. We were able to get the interest rate lowered on some of them. Now, granted, we had them around a little bit longer than you, but it's worth a try. And a lot of times those get sold off anyway. They get moved around between different private companies. and when that happens, that's generally the best time to try to make a deal. So call them up and try it, especially now that you've got some cash. You might be able to get a couple of those for a little bit less.

1:10:25Yeah, and I think the main thing that I'm wrestling with, I guess, mentally and emotionally, is it feels like if my sister were still here and just gave me that money, what would she want me to do with it? I know that you guys talk all the time about the sooner I get out of debt, then the more I can do those kind of things. And I don't like I don't know if I put because she would really just want to travel and make memories and and go on trips. I don't know if I'd take even$3 ,000 of that$20 ,000 and kind of sock that towards a trip fund, if you will, and then put the rest at work. Or I guess that's my main struggle with this entire situation.

1:11:19Interesting. Interesting. I mean, that's probably about a – it probably slows you down by maybe a couple of months, right, on your actual debt-free journey. if you threw 17 instead of 20. I've done the math. I've done the math anywhere from putting 5K towards the loans up to the full 20. And I see how many months I'm saving if I don't put any towards debt. There's also nothing wrong with attacking your debts and doing a trip once you're debt free. That's true. Yeah. I'll be honest with you, Ryan. You know, there's part of me that I hear what you're saying about the wanting to honor what they would want.

1:11:58And there is something about a loss that you almost do need just a way to kind of unplug and restart. And sometimes taking a trip is the way to do that. Sometimes getting away from your normal environment to just kind of reset. So I'm actually not opposed to it. 3000 is a lot of money. Maybe you do 2000 or 15, whatever you feel right about. I don't think that you're going to do anything reckless, but I probably, um, how old are you? I'm 25. Um, I'm not opposed to something like that because of the nature of the money and how you received it and wanting to do something that you feel like is honoring to them and also maybe helping you heal too.

1:12:39Yeah. And, and I think, I mean, having like during this entire grieving and kind of healing process. I think having my, I guess, goals of, cause I've been so aggressive on paying down this debt ever. I mean, I really locked in December of last year. Yeah. Before this even happened. I've paid, yes, I've paid like four, uh, federal loans off that were my smallest balances. And I just, I mean, I, there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure. And I know that if I really hunker down, then I can get out faster. Yeah, at this rate, how fast will you get out? Let's say you threw all the inheritance at these debts.

1:13:22You got 65 left, you make 65, what would you be on track to do? The math that I did with how much I'm paying extra on top of the minimums, I'd come out October of 29. Okay, so we're talking about three years, which I mean the debt to income ratio I would have some urgency about this most people we see it's like half their debt to income ratio so they make 100 they have 50k in debt when I see someone making 65 who has 65 in debt I kind of get some palpitations going we need to get this income up we need to get this done faster the average is about two years so if you're far off from that you know Jade had a story where she had almost half a million with her and her husband so that took seven years.

1:14:07It looks different for everyone, but I don't want you to get comfortable either going, well, I'll take my time, but I do love marking her legacy with some sort of trip. It doesn't need to be a$3 ,000 trip. It could be a nonstop flight somewhere, and it's a solo trip where you get to kind of honor what she meant to you. So, so sorry for your loss, man, and we are rooting for you on this debt-free journey.

1:15:05We'll see you next time. Like no one else, Cruise is back. And for all of you who are living debt-free, we want you to join us in the Western Caribbean. This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and Dave Ramsey for seven days in paradise, enjoying poolside chats, live Q &A sessions, and so much more. And I'm already packing, Jade. I'm getting started early on this one. I know it's not until March. The poolside chats is what got me. You're not going to be poolside? The poolside chats? Let's get into it. We'll see. It was a blast the last time we did it, and so we're bringing it back.

1:15:35And the ship's over halfway full already. The Neptune suites have already sold out. So lock in your spot with a$600 deposit before it's too late. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events. I got to work on my base tan, I realized. What was your favorite thing last time? I think watching Ken Coleman, who no longer our coworker, but watching him play pickleball for about four hours with a headband out there, that was the best entertainment money could buy. Oh, man. Oh, Ken. I'm going to hit karaoke pretty hard, and I expect to see you out there. I'll be there. Okay.

1:16:07I'll be there. It's going to be fun. Rob is in Greenville, South Carolina, up next. What's going on, Rob? Thanks for taking my call. I am looking to open the Roth IRA, and I'm just trying to figure out how to assess and figure out kind of what investments within that Roth IRA that I'm looking to do. Great question, and a good call out for anyone listening. people think, well, I put money into my Roth IRA. I'm done. And I go, did you though? Because it might just be sitting in like the settlement account in cash and you need to actually go invest the dollars into something like a mutual fund. So we recommend four types of mutual funds around here.

1:16:47And essentially, Rob, it's large cap, mid cap, small cap, international. So we want a nice mix of companies to stay diversified. You've also heard of, you know, an S &P 500 index fund, a nice low cost broad based index fund that's fine too but you don't get the same amount of diversification because an S &P 500 fund is just the top 500 companies so you've got mostly large cap in there so you're not exposed to the smaller companies who might have some sweet aggressive growth and those international companies that help kind of bolster your portfolio when the U.S. market goes down and can I do you one better Rob so I give you even better okay we're doing an event called Investing Essentials, September 1st and 2nd.

1:17:29It's a virtual event, and I'm going to send you a free ticket. You don't have to pay for it if you'll actually attend it and watch it. It's Dave Ramsey and I for two nights unpacking all of this, and we actually do a walkthrough with examples of how to select mutual funds within there, because with a Roth IRA, there's thousands you can choose from. It's overwhelming. So we'll show you how to narrow it down by process of elimination to choose the right ones that work out for you long term. That sounds great. Okay, we'll hook you up with that. But it is, Jay, there's a lot of factors here. You want to be looking at how long has the fund existed?

1:18:04I was just about to say. Has the management team been there for 10 years or has it been a lot of turnover? What's the expense ratios? What's been the rate of return over the long haul? Yeah, and you can look that up. Whenever you're looking for funds, a lot of people want us to say, just tell me what fund to choose. Tell me the ticker. And we don't do that because I think it's great to learn. It's great to look them up. Mine has a, it's like a report card that you can look at, or you can look at the prospectus either way. But yeah, you look at how long has it been alive, you know, inception date or whatever.

1:18:35Is this fund been around for a year or 50 years? Exactly. And then you can look at, you know, the past year, five years, 10 years on down the line. And all that's really good to see. I'm always looking to make sure it's at least like 11, 12 or beyond for, you know, average annualized rate of return, which is what we talk about here on the show all the time. And you can see all of that in the fund. Obviously, if you look in the past years, it's going to be really, really great. But the good news is there's so many that you don't want that it really narrows it down pretty quickly. If you start looking at that stuff, you'll be able to see really clearly, okay, this is, I see what they're saying.

1:19:06Jade, as I do, I got in an argument in the comments section because this guy, you know, I say, hey, 10 % is what you can expect. That's the average. You know, the average is 10 to 12. Let's go 10. Yeah. And he goes, what are you talking about? You need to plan for six. And so I messaged him. I said, hey, man, I'd like to know, like, where's this coming from? Where's that base from? What are you invested in? So he literally sent me his portfolio and half of it was in bonds. Oh, no. This kid's in his 20s. Yeah. And a bunch of it was in, you know, Canadian stocks. I think he's in Canada. And a little bit of it was in the U.S.

1:19:34market. And I went, well, don't complain that you're not getting 10 or 12 % when you're investing terribly. Yeah. It's not diversified. You need to be in mostly equities, especially while you're younger. That's right. To experience that growth. Yeah. Most people, and I still don't suggest this, but a lot of people do switch to bond funds when they get older because it's less risky. but bonds are volatile in their own way in their own way and then you're gonna call me going hey i'm only getting six percent what's going on and i when i look under the hood i'm like there's your problem right there bud so we're gonna walk you through all that investing essentials you can get your virtual ticket for that at ramsysolutions.com slash events uh if you can't get it for free like i just gave to my friend rob but that's what he gets for calling on the show he did the work all right let's go to nicholas in pittsburgh up next what's going on nicholas so i'm struggling to do step one, even saving$1 ,000.

1:20:26I racked up quite a bit of debt, so I feel like all my money is just playing catch-up right now and a little robbing Peter to pay Paul with cash advances. So I'm just trying to get to a good point so I can do the first step, save$1 ,000. dollars. So when you say you're trying to get to a good point before you save a thousand dollars, does that mean you're trying to get current on anything that's behind? What do you mean by that? Yeah. So I kind of just dug myself a hole as far as debt. I enrolled myself into a debt program, about$41 ,000 worth of debt. Like a debt settlement relief company? Yeah.

1:21:16They tell you to stop paying the debts, tank your credit, pay us the payments, and then we'll settle for you. How long have you been in that? Yes. Two years. How much have you paid in? A decent amount of money. Okay. How much have they cleared for you? They take$300 out of every paycheck. Okay. And how much is... Most of that is going towards their fees. Right. So we're going to probably stop that immediately. Let's stop that program because, and here's why, whatever they're doing, if you wanted to do it that way, you could do it yourself. All they're doing is taking that$300, they're stacking it up in a pool while you're not making payments.

1:22:01And every time that you don't get a payment, that gives them more leverage to settle the debt. And so at some point they're going to come in and then try to settle it for, I don't know, a quarter on the dollar or whatever. If you wanted to do that, you could do that yourself and not pay the fees. So let's get out of that program immediately and whatever they've got, you know, pulled aside, let them, you know, put it towards the debt or maybe they'll give it back to you. Either way, get out of that. And let's talk about are you behind on anything right now? No, all my bills are paid for. I just don't have much left over to start saving that thousand dollars.

1:22:36What is your margin when you do your every dollar budget? How much margin is left? Like 200, 300 bucks. Okay. So when we say baby step one, which for anybody listening, baby step one is you get$1 ,000 saved. Now, first off, the purpose of that$1 ,000 is not to be the be all end all. It's to be just a cushion between you and life. It really is a small insurance policy that ensures that you're not going to go back into debt. So if a tire goes out on the car, instead of putting it on a credit card like you used to do, now you can just pay cash for it, right? It's not going to solve all your problems, but it's temporary.

1:23:11And it should give you a lot of motivation to really work fast to pay your debt off because nobody likes only having$1 ,000 saved. So that being said, most people are able to do this, and this should be your goal too, Nicholas, in 30 days or less. And that's not just with your normal cash flow margin. That's with you selling things. That's with you working extra. That's with you doing everything you can to get this money. Pausing investing if you're doing any of that. Just looking around for any creative way you can to free up more margin, whether that's spending less or making more. So how much do you make?

1:23:44Yeah,$94 ,000. Amazing. And how much debt do you have total on the consumer debt side? I have about$60 ,000 in student loans. the$41 ,000 in credit card debt,$30 ,000 in the truck payment, and then I also have my mortgage. Okay. Are you married or single? Single. Okay. What's the truck worth? Only$22 ,000. Okay. That might be something you look into to come up with the difference through just saving up cash once you through baby step one. Because you get rid of that truck, that's almost a third of your debt gone, or at least a fourth to free up some margin to then throw. Because you free up that truck payment, now we can attack some of these student loans and eventually the credit cards, whatever the next smallest balance is.

1:24:36Hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar premium, which will help you find more margin to help you with this debt-free journey, my friend.

1:25:02welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm george camill here with jade warshaw taking your calls jordan is in manchester new hampshire up next jordan how can we help so um i got a truck repair coming up it's probably going to cost me about a thousand and I got through Baby Step 1 in the very, very early stages of Baby Step 2. I have about$5 ,000 in a high-yield savings account, and I'm just wondering if I should wait until when I get paid next to pay for the truck repair or if I should pull from the high-yield savings to pay for the repair. Well, either way, the high-yield savings is just sort of a slush fund.

1:25:45What was that earmarked for? Say that again? What was the high-yield savings earmarked for? Because we would tell you just take the five and throw it at your debts. Obviously, you have this truck repair, so let's use$1 ,000 of that to cover the repair. Is the truck drivable right now? Technically, yeah. It's just got a really bad oil leak. Okay. Like if you keep driving it, it's going to get worse? Is it one of those situations? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Then I would go ahead and do the repair. I mean, it's why we tell you to have the$1 ,000 emergency fund. So even if you just had that, you'd be in the clear.

1:26:16Then we tell you to pause, restock the Baby Step 1,$1 ,000, then move on to Baby Step 2 again. All right. So it doesn't really matter where the money comes from. You have$6 ,000 to your name. Let's cover the$1 ,000 repair and then get on to these debts. Okay. How much debt do you have? Right now, about, I think I just looked at it today, about$33 ,000. Okay. And what do you make? About$62 ,000 a year. Awesome. Okay. Is it just you? uh for my i'm engaged but we haven't fully combined our finances yet okay that's good and you shouldn't yet until you get married uh what kind of debt is the 33 000 uh so i have two personal loans out and then i have a motorcycle loan what's left on the motorcycle uh just under 16 oh wow what's it worth probably right around 16 ding ding ding ding ding I mean do we need to ride this for now can we get rid of this thing and free up the payment that's my main source of transportation that's how I'm getting myself back and forth to work okay so you don't have a car not right now no so what about the truck I wasn't driving it because I was afraid I was going to blow the motor oh but once you get it fixed yeah we fix the truck and we sell the bike I don't want to sell the bike Thank you for being honest Because I was waiting for you to straight up tell me I don't want to sell the bike, I like the bike I don't, you know In the world of struggling a little bit Financially, it's the one little freedom I feel like I can have How fast can you have it paid off though?

1:27:58$16 ,000 in debt is not freedom I know it feels like it when the wind's running through your hair But that's half your debt, man And you're about to get married What's more important, the future with this woman Or having a bike you can go buy again later on Does she have debt? I know. Yes, but not nearly as much as I do. It's not a competition. But that's the way I'd be thinking about it. No, I know. If you have$33 ,000 and she has, how much? I would guess probably under$10 ,000. Okay, and that's a guess. So here's what I would do in your shoes. I would have the conversation with her tonight. I would start having the conversations about you guys' philosophy on money.

1:28:38and now is the time because you know you're getting married. When's the date? 2028, August of 2028. Okay, August of 2028. Why is it so far away? We actually just recently got engaged about a month ago. But, I mean, it doesn't take two years to plan a party. It's a long time. No, but one of the things that conversations we have started having is that we both want to be debt-free. Baloney. If you wanted to be debt-free before the wedding, you'd sell this bike yesterday. Right, because now then if I was her, I'd be mad. I'd be like, wait a second. I got to wait another year for you to pay off your bike.

1:29:13What if you take on more debt? Does that delay the wedding further? What's that? I'm just saying right now, basically, you can ramp up or down this wedding and this new season of your life based on how aggressive you want to be with the debt. I understand. And I'm, I, like I said, I just started the baby step two and I'm putting as much as I can towards, um, the smallest, um, my smallest debt right now. What about this? Let me play something out for you because I, like I said, I appreciated your honesty and you're right. It sucks really bad, uh, to give up the things that we want, especially if we feel like they're things that we earned or we just have a special attachment to them for whatever reason.

1:29:55That's probably the hardest part of baby step two is the sacrifice of saying no to things that we would so like to say yes to. Motorcycle falls into that category. What if you sold the bike and then you paid off the$16 ,000 here really, really fast in the next couple of months and then you saved up to buy another bike again in cash? And you bought maybe, and maybe you bought more of the bike you wanted. And let's be honest, you could do all of that in way under two years, which tells me there's another reason you guys aren't getting married for two years. How long have you been together? Just like a year and eight months.

1:30:34Okay, are you already living together? We are, yes. That's why we're waiting. That explains it. There's no urgency. There's nothing exciting on the other side except a piece of paper. The loins are no longer burning. If I can say that on the radio. Oh, that's fun, Jordan. We're having fun with you. We are. We are team Jordan. We want you to win, and we're just showing you the best path forward. Now, can you do it a different way? Yes. Will it take longer? Yes. I can't force you to sell the motorcycle, but I think everybody listening to this is going, sell the bike, man. Why put yourself in more pain and suffering for longer when there's another bike?

1:31:10Someone else is going to be in your shoes selling a bike for$16K later on down the road. well that's the other thing is that later on down the road we're looking at buying a house but we both want to get a free before we do that so obviously how old are you guys change i'm 28 she's 29 okay uh you know i think what i'm hearing is somebody who it's weird on certain things you're like we have all the time in the world and then on the things that are less pleasant it's like, well, we got to do it now. And I think the correlation there is on the things that are enjoyable and you kind of get the benefit of it.

1:31:49You got all the time in the world. Like I can just drive this, I can keep this motorcycle. Like we're living together. We don't need to get married, but on the things that are a little uncomfortable, that really do require your attention, it's, you know, we need to flip-flop that a little bit. So I think that you're going to do what you're going to do, but George and I would suggest if you really want to get out of debt quickly, if you really want to put yourself in the position to buy the house, and if you really want to do what you say, which is let's each individually be debt-free before we get married, which that's your prerogative if you want to do it that way, the best way to do that is let's get rid of the bike.

1:32:25Let's show that we're serious about it. And that's kind of like you pushing all your chips in and saying, I'm serious about this deal. Do you think she would find it romantic if you're like, hey, I'm selling the bike because I value our future together more than this toy? Oh, because she likes going on it too. Oh. Touche. So now she's the one blocking this from happening. She's like, no, I like the bike. No, she ain't stopping me. Trust me. I'll tell you right now, she's not going to stop me. But it's, I don't know. It's just something that we can do together instead of staying at home when there's, you know, when it's beautiful.

1:32:59You're right. You're right. You can't leave the house unless you have a motorcycle. Here's the thing. Here's what I would suggest. I would suggest if you don't need to wait two years, you do not need to wait until all your debts are paid off. And if you both really, truly enjoy the bike, you can pay it off together when your funds are combined once you get married. How about that? At least we agree on one thing. We should pay a thousand bucks for the truck repair. Yes, we do agree on that. I'm trying to find some silver lining in this call. We agree on that.

1:33:51Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke, not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing. You stop worrying. You stop stressing. Our Every Dollar Budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck. Keep hoping things will change without making a change.

1:34:27It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the App Store or Google Play.

1:34:51Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls. Katie is in Raleigh up next. What's going on, Katie? Hi. So I am about to start a new job, earning more income. So my question is, should I take that extra money and then put that towards my student loans, even though my parents have promised to pay them off, or put that towards other things as me and my husband are wanting to start a family sometime soon? Wow. How much are the student loans? so there's two loans there's one federal loan that is 30 ,000 and then there's one private loan that is 24 but they're willing to settle for 12 when did your parents say it'd be paid off by like when does that go into effect they never said when it would be paid off it was just always a promise that they would pay them off eventually but I just turned 30 and I've been out of college for about eight years.

1:35:54And your name is on them. Yes, they are. Well, a promise with no deadline is just a wish. Yeah. Just hope. So we need to get some real tactical facts here. Hey, I got 42K here to pay off. You guys said you would. I'm not going to let it sit in a crew interest knowing that this is under my name. So all the risk is on you right now. And until they pay it off, you're carrying that. Who negotiated the settlement of the private loan? you or them? I have. I have been, you know, and how it started is my parents were managing it and then ended up defaulting. So I decided to take it over and I coordinate in front all the payments.

1:36:39So can we trust their word at this point? It sounds like they don't have the money to pay it off, even if they wanted to. Yeah, I'm starting to think that and they're getting close to retirement and they don't have a house and they're wanting to move into a house as well so yeah i think that this is just going to be a dead weight around your ankles until you cut it loose by paying it off yeah and if they want to reimburse you i'd be like one day they want to write you a 42 000 check that'll be a sweet gift one day but at this rate based on everything you've told us there is slim to no chance they're going to pay this thing off and what's going to happen is the loan's going to balloon.

1:37:20It's going to create resentment towards them and it's going to hurt the relationship even further. So I know it stinks because you believe them. You didn't take a whole lot of action because you thought, well, someone else was taking care of it. And now you're stuck going, I want to start a family. I got my own dreams and goals. And you're stuck paying for the past now because your parents didn't make good on a promise. So you have every right to be resentful and hurt by that, but you also have a responsibility to go, here's what's in my lap, I'm going to deal with it, and I'm going to take this raise that I just got and throw it all at the debt, and that might delay a few dreams, but I don't want it to stop you from having a family either.

1:37:58Yeah, and you know, my husband is in this equation now too. I didn't meet him until after college, so you know, I'm just trying to balance all the different relationships. Obviously, my husband is number one though, so. What do you guys make together, or what will you be making? I will be making$160 ,000, and my husband makes a little over$100 ,000 and some additional bonuses throughout the year. Excellent. So$260 ,000, and you got basically$42 ,000 on your side for the student loans. Do you guys have any other debts? Yes, we've just moved into a home with about a 500k mortgage and then we have two cars one car is has six grand left on it and the other one has 25 okay what are they worth um they're all pretty new so you put a lot The$25 ,000 one.

1:38:54Yeah, we put about$5 ,000 down for the$25 ,000 one. Okay. Yeah, I think that you guys have a great income. I think obviously the cars are not a huge piece of your world, so I'm fine with you guys paying them off. I don't see a need to sell any of them. But I do agree. You've got this deal with the private student loans. I think you ought to take it. Do you guys have any money saved anywhere? Cash? Yeah, we have our 10 ,000 emergency funds and then we have retirements and 401ks, Roths, but don't want to touch those. Okay. You said you have 10 ,000? Yeah, in emergencies. So let's run this back because I think you guys are doing a lot of good work, but I think that you're not doing it in a very efficient order.

1:39:43And I think that George and I can help you be a little bit more efficient. Obviously, around here, we teach a series of baby steps. And the reason that we teach them the way that we teach them is because you're creating a foundation that you can build wealth off of, that you won't have to go into debt. You won't have to, you know, tap into your retirement. You won't have to tap into credit cards. And so let's see if we can right size this with the baby steps. Obviously, baby step one is you have a thousand dollars saved. That's just a quick cushion between you and life. You guys have that. You're good to go.

1:40:13But the next baby step is baby step two. And that's technically where you guys are. That's where you list all your debts, smallest to largest, and you pay minimums on everything, but knock out, you know, use your margin to knock out the smallest debt. And then when that one's done, you take the extra money, throw it on the next debt. That is the debt snowball. And that's technically where you are. Right now you have an emergency fund, which is baby step three. We suggest three to six months of expenses. You don't have quite that. But what you do have, you honestly should bump down to$1 ,000 as baby step one and take the other$9 ,000 and put it towards this debt.

1:40:48You could pay off one of your cars. If you paid off the$6 ,000 car, how much monthly payment does that free up for you?

1:40:57That monthly payment for that car is$400. Okay. So now that's how the debt snowball works. Suddenly you pay off that$6 ,000. You got the$400 ,000, you throw that back into the mix. And now very quickly, we could probably gather up the money and pay off this settlement. How long is the settlement good for? It's every time I call them back, they seem to extend it. Oh, okay. That's good. So you've got a little bit of time. I think you can go ahead and pay off the car, free up the$400 ,000, stack up the$12 ,000 and do that settlement. And then next thing you know, we're on to the$25 ,000 car. And by the way, beyond that, let's talk about that because beyond that is baby step four, where we're investing 15 % of our gross.

1:41:38Sounds like they're already doing that, George. For the purpose of paying off debt, we suggest temporarily pausing. Go down to zero. And for you guys, that might be for six months. It's going to be a nothing burger with your income. But think about this. You guys make$260 gross. Is that about$180 net?

1:41:57I would say you're probably right on that. So let's imagine that's$15 ,000 a month coming in. And let's just imagine your expenses are$9 ,000. Okay. Now you have$6 ,000 left over if you're doing a budget to throw at the debt. So if you do what Jade said, take your savings and pay off the$6 ,000 car loan, you're left with$67 ,000 total in consumer debt. If you throw$6 ,000 at$67 ,000, you are done in 11 months. Woo! And that's probably not even making a lot of sacrifices. I mean, you're living pretty good on$9 ,000 a month. Yeah. So now let's go, okay, what if you guys said we're going to do it in six months?

1:42:33Well, now if we threw, you know, 9K at this thing, we're done in seven months. And so you can kind of figure out based on the intensity that you guys choose how fast we want to be out of debt. But if you're telling me I want to start a family, that's going to be my fuel to go, I'm not going to hang on to this for 12 more months. I'm going to free up all of those payments stack up a big emergency fund so when that baby's here it's in a debt free house with no money stress and you could save up a lot if you pay off all this debt in seven months making 260 yeah you could have a nice cushy emergency fund in the next three months so you've done really baby steps one through three in a year which is fabulous yeah this is very helpful I was just confused about you know obviously if we're wanting to start to family?

1:43:20Do I just keep letting my parents pay, slowly pay it? But no, you've got the money to do it. You've got the money to do it. And we're going to give you the total money makeover. It'll just reiterate what George and I have clarified here for you. And I think it'll give you some of the whys behind the what that we don't have time to explain on this call. But you guys are doing great. And what I love about this, let's picture one day you make 160. It's an amazing income. Let's say one day you decide, you know what, this baby is, I value being home with the baby more than my 160 income, you could walk away from it.

1:43:50If you do it the right way, you have the margin. Can you live off 100K with no debt? That's the question. Now you've got a$500 ,000 mortgage that changes things. So you need to figure out in the budget what that looks like. But that's the goal of the baby steps. It's not to be maniacal because Jade and George and Dave said so. It's to give you options, freedom, margins, so you can live out of your values instead of do things because you have to do it because a lender said so. That's the goal.

1:44:40You should not feel uncertain about investing. and you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two-night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at$199. Get yours today at RamseySolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes.

1:45:30Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down one of the questions we received this week. Here's the question. People talk about Roth IRAs and 401ks. How do I know what fits my situation? Interesting. I like that. So the rule that we teach here is simple. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So that's kind of telling you your order of investing. Obviously, if you have a 401k through your employer and there's a match, this is free money, George. I mean, you always want to get that. You put it in a hundred bucks, they give you a hundred bucks, I'm taking it.

1:46:01That's a no brainer. It's a magic money machine right there. Uh-huh. And then after that, you've got the Roth IRA. We'd love for you to max that out. That's fabulous because you're paying the taxes up front, which means you or your heirs won't have to pay taxes. And of course, the growth is tax-free as well. In 2026, the limit is$7 ,500 or$8 ,000. If you're 50 plus, you've got the catch-up contribution there. And then if you still haven't hit 15 % of your income, now we can move back to any traditional accounts. Like if you have a traditional 401k, you can contribute there. So that's the order.

1:46:33Match is the best. Let's start there. Roth is next best because you have this tax-free growth. And then the traditional side to hit that limit. So I love this plan. I know it sounds simple. It can be confusing for some. So you can actually plug in your own numbers and Ask Ramsey. We'll walk you through the investing order for your specific situation. You can do that at RamseySolutions.com. We'll click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Brian is in Dallas up next. Brian, welcome to the show. Well, thank you for taking my call. I'm actually calling for some advice concerning my mom's finances.

1:47:07She's 94 years old. She has recently had to move into an assisted living facility. She had been a full-time worker until the age of 93, and she broke her hip. Oh, I'm sorry. She's accumulated like$500 ,000 in assets through that time because of being frugal with money, and she grew up during the Depression and so forth. Well, she's going to pay about$5 ,000 a month to live in the assisted living facility. And so she has enough to live if she were to live for 10 years in this facility. However, we're getting ready to sell her house for about$150 ,000. My question is, what do we do with that money?

1:47:46Do we put it into her savings? Do we put it into a mutual fund? Does she gift it some to her children? Do we start trying to move money out of her account? Because her assets are too high right now, and she's not eligible for any assistance. But if that money was moved out, she would be. For example, my dad was a veteran in the Navy. She could get some military help that way. I'm just seeking advice what we should do, particularly right now with that money. Are you saying for Medicaid purposes? Yes, Medicaid and veteran purposes, either one. Well, I know for Medicaid, there's a five-year look back.

1:48:23And so you can't just move the assets out and go, hey, look, we're poor. They're looking for that because people have tried to do that in the past. And so that's not a great strategy. What I would do is just go, okay, we know. I mean, if she makes it to 104, that would be pretty incredible, right? Correct. But she's made it a lot farther. I mean, she has broken both hips, broken a bone in her neck, and she's just thriving right now. Is she a sound mind? Does she have sound mind? Yes. Oh, yes. Well, what does she want to do? Go ahead. What does she want to do with the sale of the house money? She basically leaves it up to me and says, you find out what's best.

1:48:59And so that's why I decided to call y 'all. It feels like investing it, dropping it in a mutual fund so that it can have some compounding effect there and continue to pay for her life. Yeah, I might split the difference. I wouldn't put it all in investments because if the market takes a dip, now you're ripping the money out at the wrong time to pay for a care. So I would leave a huge chunk in a high-yield savings account just as a buffer for her care. And then anything beyond that, you could invest a portion of it so that it's moving beyond just the rate of inflation at 3.5%. So if you left, let's say,$400K in a high-yield savings and you put the other$100K plus$150K from the house sale, now you've got quarter million invested and$400K liquid.

1:49:43That feels like a good balance to me personally. Okay. So don't try to move any money out of her account. That was pretty much useful. I don't think it's worth trying to move it out of the estate. It's not like she's a bajillionaire and there's going to be all these estate taxes. Sure. And I don't think there's – you can look into the VA stuff. Again, I don't think there's any way you can just move money out. She can gift money to you guys and avoid even the gift tax form of probably 19K a year if she's single to each kid. but I don't know that it's even worth doing that when you guys will inherit it when she one day passes.

1:50:17And I agree with that. I kind of thought the same thing. That's what we thought we would do at first, but I don't know that we really have the time to move enough money out to where she can get any assistance. Yeah. Assistance wouldn't be the goal at this point. It's just how do we use this basically pile of$650 ,000 to make sure that we can cover her care without incurring any you know expenses on the kid's side yeah i don't think she needs the assistance if she needed it that'd be one thing but and she's probably getting better care right now with her assets than she would be with assistance well and that's what she's talked about that she worked this long to be able to have good care if she was able to live this long so what you're saying is take 150 000 maybe divided that put part of it in high yield and part of it in like a mutual fund she already has some mutual funds okay great right yeah i'm i was thinking maybe if you split at 400K liquid, 250K invested.

1:51:10And I would connect with a smart investor pro at RamseySolutions.com because they can walk you through all of this for your specific situation. They know Texas law. And so they can walk you through all of the appropriate ways to maximize these assets and make sure that we leave the legacy in the right way with estate planning purposes. Okay. Thank you all so much. I appreciate your advice. Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Brian. Man, that's impressive at 94. I know. She's sharper than I am. Oh, gosh. She'll outlive me at this point. Wow. All right. Anna is in Raleigh, North Carolina, up next. What's going on?

1:51:44Hello. How are you guys doing? Doing great. I just had a quick question. Me and my husband are under contract for a new build townhome that will be done in November. We are pre-approved through Churchill Mortgage, which is great. But the builder's preferred lender is actually offering$15 ,000 in closing costs. But they are asking us to self-report our utilities and our rent to generate a credit score. And I just wasn't sure about that since it wasn't technically taking on debt. But I didn't want to mess around before. We were trying to get a loan and everything. So just curious you guys' thoughts.

1:52:18So they want you to turn in those kind of auxiliary things to generate because your credit score right now is zero? Yes, it's undeterminable. They want us to report it to the credit bureaus, which is interesting. I was asking if we could just send it over to him, and he was not. like saying I was okay. Well, the problem with that is there's no guarantee that that's going to give you a good credit score. It might cause something to pop up. And I would hate if it was a mediocre credit score because then Churchill is going to be looking at that. If you have a credit score, it has to be used. It's a stupid rule, but that's the rule.

1:52:51So you either have to have no credit score or a good to great one. And so I would look into this to make sure that if you do self-report that it will give you an actual good score. And I would also look into these closing costs to figure out, is this even a good deal? Because they could be screwing you in other ways because they always entice you with, use our preferred lender and we'll give you this kickback, but that doesn't mean it's a good deal for you guys. So I would look at the numbers, get an estimate from Churchill and look over those numbers versus the closing costs with this other lender.

1:53:25Okay. That way you have the full picture. Thank you guys. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question. That is. What they're talking about here is something called manual underwriting or no score loan. I've done this personally. People are shocked every time I say it. We've done it too. It's not that big of a deal. It's like a magic trick. They're like, wait, you did what? You can get a mortgage without having a credit score whatsoever. Now, here's where people get it twisted. You cannot have a low score. This does not circumvent a bad credit score. So I get these messages going, hey, I heard you talk about these no score loans.

1:53:53How do I do that? I have a 400 credit score. I go, no, you need to get rid of it completely by becoming completely debt free, having no open trade lines whatsoever, no open credit cards. And after six to 12 months, your credit score will become indeterminable. So at that point, you're going, well, how do I get a score? Lenders are looking for this. Not all of them. And Churchill Mortgage, who we've had as a partner for decades and decades now, they specialize in these types of loans because they help Ramsey fans get a mortgage without a credit score. So you do need things like a tax return. You need to show utility bills, rental history, on-time payments, all of that.

1:54:31But they essentially have a real person look at all the numbers and go, yep, they qualify with the loan. They use trade lines, your phone bill, utilities, electric to take the place of what other people would use credit for. Which by the way is exactly how it happened before the 90s. That's true. When the credit score came into existence. Yes. So your grandma didn't have to deal with this. They just went, I know, Jane. She's great. Look, they have income. Give them the loan. I pine for us to go back to a time as simple as that. I know that's right. Where if you just have money and income, they'll give you the loan.

1:55:00That's good enough.

1:55:24If you pay taxes to the IRS every quarter or run a small business and you're not using a CPA, what are you doing? The more complicated your tax situation gets, the more you need expert help. With a Ramsey-trusted tax pro, you can get top-notch service year-round for payroll, bookkeeping, quarterly tax payments, and, of course, tax filing. Let an expert take the stress off your shoulders. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax to find a Ramsey-trusted tax pro today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash tax.

1:56:11Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 12, 15. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes But a wise man listens to advice Ken Blanchard said None of us is as smart as all of us There we go There is wisdom in numbers and community Multitude Hey, buying or selling your home is high stakes Because one bad deal could cost you tens of thousands And you don't want to overpay for your next house Or sell your current home for less than it's worth And that's where a Ramsey trusted agent comes into play We can connect you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step-by-step to make smart decisions instead of expensive mistakes.

1:56:48Connecting is easy. You can go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent, compare agent profiles, interview your top choices, and pick the right one for you. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent, or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Kyle is in Charleston, South Carolina up next. Kyle, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for having me. So my wife and I are both real estate agents. We've done about 180 this year. I'm track to do probably 360 by the end of the year. Wow. No debt except that. Way to go. No. Thank you. Thank you. No debt except the mortgage. I wanted to know about investing.

1:57:24So we have enough right now to max out both our Roth IRAs that would be, you know, starting our Roth IRAs and then, you know, some on top of that. But you'll have to do backdoor Roth IRAs at your income level. Okay. Yeah. So know that. There is an income threshold. to do the Roth IRA, but there is a very legal loophole called a backdoor Roth IRA, where essentially you make an after-tax contribution to a traditional IRA and then immediately convert it. Okay. So look into that when you're ready. And I guess that kind of leads me to my next question. We're both 28, and I'm wondering, should we talk to a smart investor?

1:58:03Because I've talked to some of them just because I'm not good with all this stuff. I'm new to all this. Or should we do it at our own since it's just a Roth IRA? Well, you're going to be doing more than just a Roth IRA because the way we teach, we want you to invest 15 % of your gross income, which making$360 ,000 a year, you could be putting away like$54 ,000 per year. So the two backdoor Roths will get you to 15K. We've got a ways to go. And obviously you guys are basically self-employed. Yeah, pretty much. Do you run it as an official business to where you could open a solo 401K? it's a LLC right now it's going to be converted to an S-Corp for the next tax year though okay I would contact that SmartVestor Pro and ask about a solo 401k if it's just you and your wife you can open one of those and what's really cool is you can contribute as the employer and the employee so you can contribute way more than I can in that 401k and that will really help you guys out and you can you can even open a solo Roth 401k to sock away all that money and then you can also, beyond that, like let's say you guys wanted to have some flexible spending money or a bridge account.

1:59:12Let's say you want to retire at 55. You want to access money before 60. You can just open a taxable brokerage account and invest in there, in some index funds, and kind of create a nice little pile of money as well. So, and should we be investing, I guess, should we be that 401k that you mentioned? How much is there a max on that that we can contribute as employer and employee? I think the lifetime match is somewhere around$54 ,000, which is right around where you would be after you do the Roth. Double check that for me because it's always changing, but there's a lot that you can put in there.

1:59:48Yeah, the total contributions are capped at 72. 72, there you go. So you can contribute your 24-5 just like any old employee plus 25 % of compensation on the employer side. Which is pretty great. Okay, and then yeah, that is good. And then After all that stuff, is there anything else we should be investing in other than that? I know you mentioned brokerage accounts or mutual funds. The other thing is an HSA, if you guys have a high deductible health plan. I don't know what you guys do for health insurance right now. What do you have? We actually don't. We don't have health insurance right now.

2:00:21Oh, boy. We got to get that. All right. New homework assignment that just flew to the top of the list. I would contact Health Trust Financial. They can help you shop for insurance if you're self-employed to find you the best deal. And the website for that is healthtrustfinancial.com. That's a big one. I mean, health insurance, like medical bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. And so that's really, you're exposed right now. So as you're building wealth, that's the offense part. You got to play defense. You want to have the right types of insurance in place. And health insurance is, that's the top of the list.

2:00:55So beyond that, you should be paying off the mortgage. You guys said you own a home. Yes, we do. What's left on that? $220 ,000, I think. Fantastic. So let's say you invest 15%, that's$54 ,000, and you still had money left over. Let's use a big portion of that to start attacking the mortgage and set a very specific goal of, hey, if we put$5 ,000 on that a month, that's$60 ,000 a year, and within four years, this thing's completely gone. Okay, gotcha. And what's the – I mean because we have – our thing, we've talked about paying off the home early a lot. And our thing is it's at a – and I know you all hear this a lot – it's at a 2.5 % interest rate.

2:01:36Yeah, I have yet to convince any real estate agent to pay off their mortgage. So if you do this, I will have a trophy in my house. But yeah, that's the thing. People look at the paper and go, well, 2.5%. I can make more in a high-yield savings account. The truth is, number one, we can only have that discussion if you actually have the full amount of the mortgage sitting in savings, which most people don't. and number two you haven't factored in uh the interest savings you have a forced savings plan here with a forced um interest rate so that two and a half percent you're basically making that money by paying it off and now you can invest that payment and people rarely factor that into play on top of hey what if your wife let's say you guys have a kid and your wife decides to stay home not having a mortgage mortgage payment would really help out in lowering your expenses okay so it also gives you flexibility on top of the peace the freedom he said i'll consider it so just consider it again i flew by that because i went kyle this might fall on deaf ears here on some rocky ground but it was worth a shot because that is the truth it's exactly what i did kyle and i have zero regrets i think my mortgage was out like i don't know a little over three percent and my friends were like come on dude you can make so much life is not about a spread once you have a family.

2:02:47It's about how can I just live peacefully, simply, not worried about money. So when my wife decided she wanted to stay home, we barely looked at the budget. Went, yep, all right, go for it. So that's the advice there. That's the baby steps. You invest 15 % until the house has paid off. Then you can start really going ham. You could invest 30, 40, 50 % of your income and start to go beyond into those taxable brokerage accounts as well. okay you got it and one last question before i go they um after we you know say we do pay off the house after that and we start saving up we want to look at um either you know fixed or upwards or investment properties or land what's y 'all's opinions on investing in those type of things love it i mean dave ramsey has a whole big portion of his net worth tied up in real estate he's a big fan of it but there's a very specific way to do it that again real estate agents rarely do, and that is save up and pay cash.

2:03:40Right. And that's how we would do it. You know, the only mortgage we want, I guess, is our own. And then it becomes, hey, what kind of hassle do you want? Do you like the fixer upper life where it's sort of temporary, but kind of high stress, higher stakes, and then you make some profit? Or do you want the sort of landlord life where, hey, we bought a property, we got a good deal on it. Here's what we know we could get in rent. And when it's paid for, the cash flow is extra sweet. Are you guys covering real estate on investing essentials? We are. Okay. Let's give Kyle a ticket to that. So at night one of our investing essentials event, Kyle, it's happening September 1st and 2nd.

2:04:14Dave Ramsey and I are unpacking his wealth playbook. In the end of night one, we're going to cover real estate investing. So I want you specifically to tune into that and join us if you're willing. Yeah. Even the first night too, because you had all those questions about investing. I think that's just the perfect event for you. I love this, Kyle. Join us. You just got a free$200 ticket. So don't say it and do anything nice for you. Even if you hate the advice, you got a free ticket out of it. Thanks for the call, man. You're doing great. Great questions. I cannot imagine, Jay, at like 28, making 360 grand, crushing it in real estate and having no consumer debt.

2:04:53I know they're going to be wealthy, wealthy, wealthy. I lit up like a Christmas tree to be able to talk about investing because they have the margin to invest$54 ,000 a year. Unheard of. They're going to have so much money, they're going to be buying up properties left and right like it's a monopoly. Yeah, but he started out saying something that I hear so much. I think people are like, oh, I just want to max out my Roth IRA. And kind of in their minds, it's like, that's it? That's it? And don't get me wrong, I think that's a really good thing to aspire to. But the truth is you want to hit 15 % of that gross.

2:05:23And if that puts you over the$7 ,500 limit, that's a good thing. So if you're married making over$100K, you've got to go beyond just two Roth IRAs. Yeah, you've got to get into not just your Roth IRA, but now if you have an employer-based 401K, go there. Yeah, and the HSA, that's why I mentioned it, is an awesome place to also invest. Kind of a life hack on that one, triple tax advantage. All right, that puts this show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:05:57We'll be right back.