Live from Charlotte: The Ramsey Show on Tour

8:39Ken Coleman:Fantastic. Thanks for coming. What's your question?

8:42George Kamel:My question is, how much should I expect my boyfriend to be paying on an engagement ring?

8:50Ken Coleman:Ooh, yikes. Y 'all are bringing the fastballs tonight.

8:53George Kamel:My boyfriend is here, so you can be generous.

8:55Ken Coleman:Is this him right here? Oh, my goodness.

8:59George Kamel:I think we need him on the mic, too, don't you?

9:01Ken Coleman:I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm a man of the people. I'm going to come down here. Well, I don't know if you wanted to join her up there. Do you want to go with her? I think you should go up there. Yeah. Yes. This is fantastic. This is what we need. Okay. Hannah. Hannah, on the mic real quick. Did he know you were going to do this?

9:20George Kamel:I did, yeah.

9:21Ken Coleman:Oh, so you're willingly participating. Hey, you got a nice watch there.

9:24George Kamel:Y 'all communicate so well. I didn't expect to be on the mic, but I was willing for her to ask the question. Okay. I got to know what kind of watch you're wearing there. It's a T-SOT. What's that cost? It was about a grand.

9:37Ken Coleman:Oh, okay. Just give me a good baseline. Give me a good baseline. And are you aware that she's expecting the ring, I hope?

9:43George Kamel:Yeah, we've definitely discussed it.

9:44Ken Coleman:Okay, and have you been planning for this financially?

9:48George Kamel:Yes.

9:48Ken Coleman:Okay, are you willing to tell us right here and now how much you've been planning to spend? Or would you like to keep that private?

9:56Rachel Cruze:Oh, yeah.

9:56George Kamel:I've been told kind of like two to three months salary. Who told you? Who told you that? Parents. Every kiss begins with K? No. Okay. Just friends and parents, I would say. Debeer's? Yeah. Well, that's a lot of marketing.

10:08Ken Coleman:That's a lot. Two to three months. That's a lot? Yeah. What do you do for average? I think that's average.

10:13Rachel Cruze:That is what they say.

10:15Ken Coleman:I'm in tech sales.

10:16George Kamel:Oh. You're going to get a nice ring, sweetheart.

10:21Ken Coleman:Yeah. Well, do you have any debt? No, debt-free.

10:25George Kamel:He has a family friend who works for Diamonds Direct as well. So you're getting a deal? The three and Diamond Strut Connection.

10:32Ken Coleman:Okay. And have you... She's teeing it up. Yes, she is. Have you two talked about a price? You have.

10:41Rachel Cruze:I bet not.

10:42Ken Coleman:She's talked about the size of the ring that she wants. So, Hannah, are you aware of what said size costs?

10:50George Kamel:Nope. Let's be honest. Do you really think he would give you a ring that you'd be disappointed with? No. I think it's a moot point then.

10:59Ken Coleman:All right, well, I want to dig a little more. This is too juicy. What is your name, sir? Jeff. Jeff. Y 'all are adorable, by the way. I'm rooting for this couple already. They're fantastic. I am too. You guys are a handsome couple. Have you went and looked at the size ring that she wants and priced it?

11:18George Kamel:We've went and looked, but I haven't really priced it now.

11:21Ken Coleman:I think you should price it. Yeah. And then, George, after he prices it, we don't know what we're dealing with, and we're trying to keep a little bit of mystery here, although Hannah has put this poor boy on the spot. Yeah, it's a little too late. I mean, he has to put a ring on it. I would price it, and I don't know, George, if I like that two to three months salary business. That feels artificial.

11:40Rachel Cruze:That's a very—

11:41George Kamel:Well, we got a call on the Ramsey Show. This guy wanted to spend$80 ,000 on a ring. So there is a level where it's like out of control.

11:48Rachel Cruze:Okay, back to our values thing, y 'all. If he made$15 million a year, who cares? I mean, you know what I'm saying? That's why the salary of what you make per month is a good gauge of it.

11:57George Kamel:I do not make$15 million. Trust you, a month's salary is plenty.

12:05Ken Coleman:Well, I think we may have varying opinions. I'll vote and say, I think you need to go price it and price it multiple times. Talk to your buddy. Say, here's the situation. Hannah's amazing. This is what she wants. This is what I feel comfortable with. Because I think you know in your mind what a comfortable number is, don't you? You're a responsible young man?

12:24George Kamel:I would say so, yeah.

12:25Ken Coleman:All right, if you can't get her what she wants, you get her something close, and we have a fine conversation about it. And Hannah, you want to marry this man, do you not?

12:34George Kamel:Yes.

12:35Ken Coleman:All right, are you going to be happy with what beautiful ring he gets you?

12:38George Kamel:Yes.

12:39Ken Coleman:All right. Then that's enough.

12:41George Kamel:Right now? No. No.

12:44Ken Coleman:No, you've got to wait, Hannah. Let this man come up with a plan.

12:48George Kamel:The simplest answer is how much should you spend, how much you can afford at the time you want to propose. That's it.

12:55Rachel Cruze:And then factor in, depending on your situation, if you guys have to pay for the wedding, the honeymoon, do you want a down payment on a house? I mean, you know, like the money at that point all is put into a big bowl and saying, how do we want to divvy this up? And you guys need to talk about that to say, what are our values? What are our goals?

13:10Ken Coleman:What's the priority? Yeah, what's the priority? I got to tell you, I'm a little irritated. Why, Ken Coleman? I think there needs to be more mystery among this young generation. Why are we even talking about this?

13:21Rachel Cruze:You're the one that told him to go up to the mic.

13:23Ken Coleman:because she asked the question in front of everybody. I don't want you two talking about this. Hannah, relax.

13:30George Kamel:I'm with Rachel. I think you need to put it all in a bucket and then divvy it out. And I would much rather be on a beautiful diamond than maybe a wedding venue or a dress or other things. We'll see. A mortgage that would take priority.

13:45Ken Coleman:All right, all I'm saying, I'm having fun. I'm truly not irritated, but I'm slightly irritated because I do think there needs to be mystery. and I think the young man should get a little information from you and then you just need to go about your life and let him come up with a plan, let him buy a nice ring. We got too much planning going on. Where's the romance?

14:02Rachel Cruze:How old are you guys? How old are you?

14:04Ken Coleman:I'm 26.

14:06Rachel Cruze:Yeah, 27?

14:07Ken Coleman:Yeah. Okay. What does that have to do with it?

14:09Rachel Cruze:Because they're hardworking, late 20s, they know what they want in life, so they can have grown-up conversations of where we want our money to go as a couple.

14:18George Kamel:I didn't say that. I want the mystery around the engagement. The way the engagement happens can be the mystery.

14:23Rachel Cruze:That's the mystery. But to decide how much money we want to spend on a ring, that can be talked about. I'm okay with that. As long as you pay cash. That's my thing. And in two years, you're going to be fine. You know what I mean? Or, Hannah, you may be slightly disappointed with the size. I don't know. But then in 10 years, you can upgrade a ring. Or in 20 years, right? It's great. So it's fine. But I do like the month. I like basing it on what you make per year. I like that. I like that model. Blame it on K's, but I don't like it.

14:57Ken Coleman:Who's with me who'd like to see a little more mystery?

15:02George Kamel:He's trying to rally everyone to get on his side now. Leave the poor couple alone.

15:06Ken Coleman:This is going out to the YouTube millions. I want a good message out there amongst the crowd. Loud and clear. Hey, you guys are fun sports. I'm having a little bit of fun, but kind of serious. Give them a big hand. Congratulations, you guys.

15:18Rachel Cruze:Good job.

15:22Ken Coleman:Wow. That was fun. We need a little dissension up here every once in a while, so we cover it from every angle.

15:28George Kamel:Yeah, I don't think any of us agreed on exactly what to do there, but I think we got there.

15:32Ken Coleman:I think we got there. It was a lovely couple. We left them confused and in love. That's it. That's it. As it should be. Okay, our next question is Nora. Where is Nora? Give her some love as she gets to the mic. There she is.

15:44Rachel Cruze:Nora.

15:48Ken Coleman:Hi, Nora.

15:49George Kamel:Hello. Where are you from? Raleigh, North Carolina.

15:52Ken Coleman:Nice.

15:53George Kamel:I'm a nurse feeling burnt out from working so much overtime, even though I'm trying to stay focused on paying my remaining 76 ,000 student loans. I've already paid 83 ,000, but I'm exhausted. How can I manage burnout, stay motivated, and help my partner understand why becoming debt-free matters so much to me?

16:13Ken Coleman:Wow. Good for you. First of all, this is a nurse who's working absolutely herself to the bone to get out of debt. Let's be a person. Much needed, right? That's great.

16:26Ken Coleman:So what's your expected payoff date? If you continue at the pace you're on right now, when would you be debt-free?

16:32George Kamel:December of next year.

16:34Ken Coleman:Okay. And how much have you paid off so far?

16:36George Kamel:$83 ,000. Amazing.

16:43Ken Coleman:Is there tension with your partner relationally because you're always working? Is that why you brought this up? How do I help my partner? Give me more on that deal. What don't they understand? Yeah.

16:52George Kamel:I pay obviously a lot towards my student loans. Like my whole check goes towards it. And he doesn't understand why not just pay the minimum and just save the rest.

17:03Ken Coleman:Have you walked him through the why behind the baby steps? Blame it on Ramsey and all of us. You rolled your eyes. That's not good. What happened there?

17:13George Kamel:Why does he hate me?

17:16Ken Coleman:Be honest.

17:17George Kamel:He thinks it's a cult.

17:19Ken Coleman:There we go. You know, it's interesting. I've never heard that before. Yeah, well, I get it. And it's not our fault. It's the way you people act. No, I'm kidding. That's terrible. I'm kidding. Okay, well, you're not married, so he doesn't get a vote. You know, we teach separate finances, so that's a relational issue. And I think as you continue to get free, hopefully he begins to catch a vision for it. I think the thing that you have to do, and I want them to weigh in, I would just quickly say, I love the payoff date. I love the goal. I love the gazelle intensity, but you have to listen to your heart and you have to listen to your mind and you have to listen to your body.

18:04Ken Coleman:And you aren't all of a sudden a bad, lazy, fake gazelle intense person who's not worthy of the baby steps and you're not working on, if you have to dial it back a little bit, you know what I mean? like it is it is not about the length of time that we preach it is about the intentionality that we preach and i we've done so many debt-free screens where people have taken six and seven years so i think if you're starting to get to a place of physical and emotional and maybe spiritual and relationship exhaustion dial it back a little bit you know until you can get back up on your

18:39Rachel Cruze:feet i'm curious to know what you all think yeah well it's amazing what two months would do if you're like okay i'm not going to work extra for two months and give myself breathing room and then press play again, right? And you're kind of this off and on, if that's helpful, or when you get to a certain dollar amount of debt payoff to say, okay, once I reach this, once I reach 50 ,000 left, I'm going to take a breather and I'm going to not work extra for 30 days, 60 days, and that's okay. And then you press play again, right? Because there's a level of a marathon. You know, we always say the average person pays off their consumer debt in 12 to 18 months is what we have found in all of our research.

19:11Rachel Cruze:But again, that plugs in people that pay off their consumer debt in eight ears, and that's people that just find us randomly, and they have the money to pay off their debt, and they're done within 30 minutes, right? So that span is really big. So the people on the more marathon side, to Ken's point, it's okay to take a step back and just have a breather, and still continue on your plan. But if you kind of put some of those rest periods in for you, for some people, they're like, oh gosh, I need a nice dinner out, and that's like a relief. Whatever that looks like for you to have that. And then the relational side is, yes, ideally, he would see that and be on board, but I want you to feel validated in your decisions.

19:51Rachel Cruze:And so I don't want this to be a point of tension for you guys because you feel like you are working your butt off and no one sees you in it, right? When you have a relationship and you have a man in your life that could look at you and be cheering you on. So that's more of my problem. I'd wish value-wise he lined up with you, but more of how he treats you in the process, I hope is great. That's my prayer for you.

20:13George Kamel:I mean, you guys nailed it. The one thing I would do is just calculate and go, okay, I'm going to pay it off April of 28 instead of December of 27 if I slow this down. And I think that'll help you realize, okay, it's an extra few months until I'm debt-free. We're still going to celebrate you just as hard no matter what when you come do your debt-free scream. So I think release whatever pressure you've put on yourself to hit the self-imposed deadline. And that's coming from a guy who's probably the nerdiest and most intense. So you're doing amazing. Keep it up. Way to go, Nora. Good job.

20:42Rachel Cruze:Well done. Well done.

20:46Ken Coleman:All right. So this is fun. We've got a write-in question, and this came in from Dwayne. This is Dwayne's question. At what point in our lives, after 65 years of age, do we become self-insured?

20:59George Kamel:Okay. So let's cover what they're talking about here for those that aren't aware or those watching at home. When we talk about term life insurance, it's to replace your income if something were to happen to you for those that rely on your income. So that's a spouse, kids. So what we talk about is getting 15 or 20 years in a term life policy so that after those 20 years are done, you've been following the baby steps, you've paid off your house, you've been investing for two decades, you have enough in your nest egg in savings where you're self-insured, meaning the policy could end and you have enough to cover your family if something were to happen.

21:31George Kamel:So that's the simplest answer. At what point in your lives are you self-insured? When you could drop the policy and if you were to croak today, God forbid, your family would be just fine living off of your retirement accounts and savings. All right.

21:43Ken Coleman:I love it. And so Xander, by the way, great place for people to go. We had a young guy in the pre-show was asking about, he's 34 years of age. Yeah. He's saying I'm single. Do I need insurance? He's like, I'm single. Do I need insurance?

21:55George Kamel:And I told him, go get a quote online because you'll find it's much cheaper when you're young and healthy. And a lot of you know that as you get older and there's health conditions, it becomes more difficult and more expensive. And so this is something really affordable, especially compared to a trash insurance we call whole life, permanent life insurance. Term life is a fraction of the cost. You want to aim for 10 to 12 times your annual income. And then your spouse, aim for 10 to 12 times their income. And if they're a stay-at-home spouse, you need at least a half million dollar policy because you got to hire Mary Poppins to replace everything they do.

22:24Rachel Cruze:Yes. I would say even more for stay-at-home spouses. We say half a million, but depending on the age of your kids, yeah, that's the baseline. And your household

22:30George Kamel:expenses.

22:30Rachel Cruze:That's right. Absolutely. So, and Xander is great because they go and shop multiple multiple companies. You're not just looking at one. And so that's the one Winston and I use, but it's great because they price it out. You get to see the prices of everything. You get to pick it and it's, it's wonderful. So it is so inexpensive. It's some of the saddest calls that we get on Ramsey show. If someone has passed away, a spouse has, and they call it, and that spouse, you know, even if it was a stay at home parent, stay at home mom, and she has to go back into the workforce because they have nothing and she, the kids, and it's just, it's just heartbreaking.

23:00Rachel Cruze:So. And some people have it through their,

23:02George Kamel:They have it through their employer and they go, I don't need it on my own. And I go, how much is through your employer? They go, 50 ,000. I go, well, that'll cover them for a year if they're lucky. You need 10 to 12 times your income and it needs to be outside of your employer because your employment can change. So Xander.com is the place to go.

23:15Ken Coleman:That's with a Z for all of you. And been around over 99 years. We've been with them for 30 years at Ramsey. Fantastic people. Tell them we sent you. They'll take great care of you.

23:25George Kamel:While we're here in Charlotte, I thought I'd get some fresh air and hit the streets to find out how people are handling their money. What does financial success look like for you?

23:33Ken Coleman:Not paying attention to the price of things.

23:35George Kamel:You look at the steak first, price second. Maybe I'll skip the appetizer and cocktail and just stick to the ribeye.

23:40Ken Coleman:Never skip the appetizer. You've got enough saved for retirement. You've got an emergency fund. Yeah, short-term focus, but also having the long-term vision of you don't want to run out of it and you want to be able to not work for the rest of your life. Having peace of mind, having a retirement fund that will allow me and my family to have some fun at the end of the day and to kind of pass on generational wealth.

24:00George Kamel:No debt, except for maybe the only debt I think you should probably carry is your mortgage. Are you there? Yes. How long have you been consumer debt-free? 20 years. To be able to have free time, not based on my effort. So without you doing anything, you've got all the time in the world. Yes. Having enough to feed myself at the end of the month. So just satiated. So low expectations, that's the key to financial success for you. Same expectations on the floor. Wow, okay. How about you? You have to pretend that money isn't real. It's pretty impossible to live by yourself, but I think that success to me is being able to live on your own.

24:37Rachel Cruze:Being able to travel when you want and being able to raise a family.

24:40George Kamel:I think those are two things that I value right now. The freedom to take a day off and not have to worry about, you know, do I have enough PTO? Do I have enough saved up that I don't need to worry about anything? Can I go get my nails done? Can I have breakfast? That kind of thing. So live your life. Take the day off and not go, I can't miss that paycheck. Yes.

24:59Rachel Cruze:I want to know how many single people are. Oh, that's fun. Oh, shut up.

25:05Ken Coleman:Oh, no way. Okay, now I didn't expect this. Single people stand up for a second. Oh. By the way. Oh, my goodness. They're looking around. Let's look around. What is happening here? Well, I didn't say sit down. Right here. Do you two know each other? just met tonight can i ask you a question sir how old are you yeah it was a very clear question 58 you look fantastic by the way ma 'am i would never normally do this but how old are you 56

25:43George Kamel:that's serendipitous what else would you all like to ask that's it what baby step are you on You gotta You know what?

25:51Ken Coleman:The rest of you can sit down Everybody else sit down. You two stay up This is exciting Alright, are you a Baby Steps millionaire? Just hang with us You're in Baby Steps 7? You're in 7? Oh my gosh

26:07George Kamel:Here's what that means They don't need each other's money They don't need each other, just love This is what we call an even

26:14Ken Coleman:Plain ground How would you, I'm just, this is getting to next level. This is exciting. How would you describe your personality? Be brief. Fun and energetic and yeah, easygoing. Yeah. Excuse me. How would you describe your personality?

26:31Rachel Cruze:Type A, boring. Opposites attract!

26:37George Kamel:Yes!

26:38Ken Coleman:Yes! I like that. I like it. It's going to work. Are you okay if I do just a couple more fun prying questions? How long have you been single? Quite a while. How long have you been single?

26:53Rachel Cruze:About 20 years.

26:54Ken Coleman:Oh my gosh. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'll stop because I'm getting, I've been married 28 years, so I'm feeling something here and I need to obey it. If you guys want to go out, if you want to, I'm not even going to make you say anything more. But if you guys talk amongst yourselves during the show, if you want to go out, Ramsey Solutions will pay for your first date.

27:22Rachel Cruze:Love it.

27:25Ken Coleman:All right. You can be seated. This is great. Well done. Yeah. Okay. So you all are asking us questions throughout the night, and we love that. But we thought it would be fun. We were talking with the team. We were talking amongst ourselves. We thought, what if we flip the script a little bit and we ask you all some questions? So this is like, you know, we're going to see what you all think about some stuff. You guys up for that? Okay. Now this is for the brave people, right? We're looking for the big personalities who are willing to share some stuff with us. Okay. So what's that? And you'll just yell it out from your seat.

28:01Ken Coleman:They don't need to go up to the mic. So we're going to have to be patient with each other as you yell out. Raise your hand. We'll call on you. So we're going to start with a fun one. what's the dumbest thing you have ever done with money? Who wants to share a dumb thing? Kind of a stupid cat. Right here. Oh! All right, sir, sir, stand up and project. No, no, no, no, no, stay there. You're not coming up here. We have security. You'll get tased. No, just, you're going to yell it out to us. He's a little too eager to approach. All right, go ahead. Snapple.

28:28Rachel Cruze:Snap.

28:31George Kamel:Snap on tools. I thought he said Snapple. So did I. I was like, that's a rather refreshing beverage.

28:36Ken Coleman:How much money did you blow on Snapple? Snap-on. What was dumb about Snap-on? Starting out, obviously I had no tools starting out when I was 16. And from 16 to now, I had probably$50 ,000.

28:51George Kamel:How old are you now? 22. So 16 to 22, you dropped 50 grand on these Snap-on tools, and you're still in debt? I'm close to being paid off. Nice.

29:03Ken Coleman:Close to being paid off. Love to hear that. Thank you, sir, for sharing your dumb, but you're about to pay the tools off. And are you making good money with said tools? Yes. How much? $31 an hour right now. $31 an hour? It's like$64 ,000 or so.

29:18Rachel Cruze:Something stuff out normally, yes.

29:20Ken Coleman:And what do you do?

29:21Rachel Cruze:Diesel mechanic.

29:22Ken Coleman:Diesel mechanic. Diesel mechanic. Are you single? Girlfriend. Girlfriend.

29:27Rachel Cruze:Oh, there she is.

29:28Ken Coleman:Taken, ladies. She's taken. All right. Okay, thank you, sir.

29:32Rachel Cruze:That's good.

29:33Ken Coleman:Who else has got a... Do we want another one of those? We got several. Yeah, I'll take one. We got one up front.

29:37George Kamel:I was debt free, and then last year I went into$22 ,000 worth of debt for an ex-boyfriend because, yeah, it's just dumb.

29:47Rachel Cruze:For an ex-boyfriend.

29:49George Kamel:We need a store. This feels like a mic situation. Go to the mic.

29:52Ken Coleman:This requires follow-up. Right here, ma 'am. He's coming to you. We'll figure it out. Oh, bring it to you. Yes. That's what it is. Oh, such service. Do you all mind passing the mic? Okay. Tell us about this. So let me set this up. She was debt-free. And then she gets with a deadbeat guy.

30:09George Kamel:I probably got emotional like three times since being here because I'm just thinking about how, like, I don't know, talking to a therapist, they're like, I made a mistake. It was an expensive one. You move forward. But long story short, debt-free. Boyfriend, last year, had a really good job, making like$15 ,000 a month and lost my job. And it was because of our relationship and took out$22 ,000. or for debt to help him. I remember the first thing was like he needed me to buy a refrigerator for one of his homes. One of his homes, plural. But he was too broke to afford a fridge. Three of them, and because he has a real bad addiction problem.

30:49George Kamel:And I was just trying to help him. Well, not help him with the thing, but help him through the addiction because he made so much money. He would make like$14 ,000,$20 ,000 a week and just spend it between drugs, gambling. I'm so sorry.

31:03Rachel Cruze:I'm glad you're not with them. Yeah.

31:05George Kamel:That's over. It's over.

31:06Rachel Cruze:Yeah, it's over. And I'm just like. Are you working to pay off the debt?

31:10George Kamel:Or do you still have it? So I worked at the casino. I hadn't worked in six months. And I've still been knocking out debt and stuff like that. And so hopefully I just talk to my old managers. And hopefully for the summer, the kids, when the kids get out of school, I go back. That's my goal, just to get back on track. Go, girl. We're cheering you on. Can I tell you something? Yeah.

31:34Ken Coleman:You've done it before. How much debt did you pay off the first time?

31:37George Kamel:I paid off$20 ,000.

31:39Ken Coleman:Okay, so what's$2 ,000 more? You got this.

31:41George Kamel:It's just like. You got it. The guilt and shame and the baggage of it. Disappointing. Yeah, because I'm like, wow. I was just right there and just ready to just.

31:49Ken Coleman:It's okay.

31:50George Kamel:And I was making, I think, like decent amount of money. And I loved my job. And so it's just like.

31:55Ken Coleman:Hey, listen. No more shame tonight. Hey, look at me. No more shame. No more shame. You're a good person who loved a guy and you got sucked into a tough situation and you've learned from it. You paid off 20 before. You can pay off the 22. Everybody in this room is completely behind you. Are you guys behind her? Thank you. Yeah. You got this. Good job. Thank you. All right. Do we have another fun question, George? Do you have a flip the script question? Yeah.

32:25George Kamel:There's some crazy people out here. So here's what I want to know. What is the craziest thing you've done to pay off debt? The thing that you would tell someone and they're like, I'm sorry, you did what now? Now, keep it family friendly. We're a family show. We've got to be able to air this on YouTube. Yeah. But I want to know what's something you did that other people would kind of have a head tilt at? Anyone sell a horse? Could you sell the horse?

32:46Rachel Cruze:Yeah, it could be what you sold, what you did lifestyle-wise. A side hustle. A side hustle, something crazy. A sacrifice.

32:51Ken Coleman:Raise your hand right back here, sir. Okay, stand up and just stand up and yell. Stand up and give us real loud, like big old voice. I took care of somebody else's horses before and after work. Yeah. Let's go. So you were a horse babysitter. Yes. That's amazing. All right. That's okay. That's pretty good. Anybody, any crazy, like, wacky stories of getting out of debt? You did something to pay off debt?

33:12Rachel Cruze:There was a girl we talked to, and she would do all of her, she would blow dry her hair in her apartment hallway so she didn't have to pay for utilities. Plug it into the hallway. Like, things like that. Anything crazy. Making your own soaps. Yeah.

33:23Ken Coleman:Okay. I got one. We need to introduce a little more tension into this room. give us a argument that you had about money with your spouse or your partner anybody got the what's the last argument you had over money look at everybody clamming up anybody right here we got one oh i like i see that hand sir is the spouse here yeah hold on we're getting the mic i feel i got a feeling are you guys together are you guys together there what was the argument combining in finances. And did you want to or not to, sir? I'm wanting to. Uh-oh.

34:02Rachel Cruze:Wanting. That's present tense.

34:04Ken Coleman:Sounds like the argument hasn't been settled or maybe it has been settled. Ma 'am, go ahead. It stands to be corrected. Ma 'am, what's the story? Ma 'am, I see you. You know we can see you, right? She thinks that the post is hiding her. I'm going to step out here. Go ahead. Put the mic over there. She said no. No to the mic. Yeah. That is your right, ma 'am. Thank you very much. All right. Well, sir, based on that response, I don't like your situation. You're going to have to keep casting vision. Okay. So let's bring this back. We get this call a lot on the show and we're having a little fun with you, ma 'am.

34:45Ken Coleman:You're a great sport, but this is a real tension. We get to call all the time. Let's talk about the dynamic. What's going on? We don't need to know their situation, but we kind of know what's going on. This is a big deal, George, Rachel. What's happening here?

34:59George Kamel:I found there's several reasons for it, and usually the person who wants to combine hasn't done a good enough job asking questions to dig into those reasons for them to feel seen and heard to go, oh, I actually understand why you feel that way. The way you grew up, it was scarcity, or there was trauma, or there was a divorce, and my parent or friend wasn't safe because they had combined finances and to put them in a precarious situation. The more you can ask questions and dig, the more you can get to some empathy and understanding. And then they need to be asking you about why are you wanting to combine finances?

35:32George Kamel:What is the upside here? And there's a give and take there. It's a dance and it usually takes people a while to get there. It's not a single conversation.

35:39Rachel Cruze:And I think what's hard too is when people hear combined finances, they're thinking just the numbers, the tactical side of it, we're going to combine accounts and do a budget together and that's it. And they miss the real benefit of it. Like when you really do, when you combine finances, you are combining on so much of your life. You are saying, ultimately, I am yielding with this person that I've chosen to spend my life with. And I'm going to choose to do this part of my life that kind of feels vulnerable. And especially if you get married later, which I understand that you're used to paying bills the way you pay them, you do your budget the way you do it.

36:12Rachel Cruze:I mean, it's just you have your thing. And then this other person comes in and it's so different. It's so hard. You're like, gosh, it would just be easier if we just, we're still on two separate tracks and I still love you and it's fine. But what you miss is that connection point that happens from a vulnerable standpoint to say, no, I really am combining every part of me in this place that feels so scary. I'm actually going to say, yeah, we are going to become one. And it's amazing to me how many, especially debt-free couples we get, and they say constantly how their marriage is better. They're like, you saved our marriage.

36:44Rachel Cruze:and we're thinking, we didn't teach a marriage class, right? Like this wasn't what we were talking about. We're talking about money, but money is a very, very vulnerable place. And it's a very revealing place in our lives. Like even when you look through scripture, you know, what the Bible says about it, it speaks so much to who you are as a person. So not only do you miss out on knowing that part of your spouse when you don't combine money, but also you miss actually grafting together a life where you're like, yeah, this is our household and we're gonna run it together. You miss that when you're running two separate lines.

37:13George Kamel:Tactically, it's a wealth multiplier when you combine finances and you're going in the same direction instead of going, well, that's her money and I don't know what she's got going on. That's her business. Well, that's where a lot of this financial infidelity happens versus the transparency, which causes you to feel more connected, which causes you to build trust, which is the foundation of a relationship. And so I would encourage anyone to try it unless you have good reason not to. And we've had those calls. Addiction.

37:38Rachel Cruze:Seriously. Addiction. Keep it separate. Yes, there are some big red flags in a relationship that it is not safe for you two, and we totally understand that. But for the other run-of-the-mill couples, yeah, do it.

37:49Ken Coleman:I'm reminded about how much fun it is to be in the room with people. When we're in the show, in the studio in Nashville, we don't get to see, and this is so much fun. I just want to take a quick moment. We can't do the Ramsey Show live tour without our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union. They're so awesome, such a great partner for the Ramsey Show. I just want to say thanks to whatever nameless executive gave us the green light for this. We're very thankful for that. So give them some love. Love Fairwinds. They're an awesome organization. Up next, Roxanne and Luke are coming to the mic. There they are.

38:22Ken Coleman:So hi, folks. How are you?

38:24George Kamel:We're doing great. We're from Concord, North Carolina, just north of here.

38:28Ken Coleman:The home of NASCAR.

38:29George Kamel:That's right. I know these things.

38:31Ken Coleman:Rachel, did you know that?

38:32Rachel Cruze:I did not, Ken.

38:33Ken Coleman:Thank you. You know what else she didn't know? That Charlotte's the queen city. I had to tell her that too.

38:38Rachel Cruze:Ken is like our old man.

38:43Rachel Cruze:He always, on the Ramsey show, he's like, from the Motor City, Detroit, we've got Alan calling from the Big Apple, Jason's. He loves it. So he's like, the Queen City.

38:55Ken Coleman:I do. I do. I love a little historical reference.

38:58Rachel Cruze:We're going off. We're off track. We are here for you.

39:00Ken Coleman:Back to our friends from Concord. What's your question?

39:02George Kamel:All right. So this is my 18-year-old son, Luke. He'll be graduating high school in just about six weeks. All right, Luke. Yes.

39:14George Kamel:And my question is, as a parent, how do you steward your growing children well without micromanaging their disposable income? And just a tiny bit of context, we are huge Ramsey fans. Luke has been working since he was 14. and our rule from Paycheck One was you save 50%, you can spend 40 % and you give 10%. So he has a lot of disposable income and I feel like he makes purchases that from my perspective are excessive and yet I don't want to micromanage him as his mom.

39:49Ken Coleman:Yeah, well you kind of sort of answered your question in that last statement. You are a mature, successful adult who happens to be his mom. He is an 18-year-old boy with, God bless you, your frontal lobe is still developing. Yeah. And he appreciates that. So I think that from my perspective is the part where you're going to have to release a little bit. Now, I'm going to tell you how I've got three. I've got a 20-year-old in college in Chicago who literally can't keep money in his account longer than 17 seconds. Nice. and then I've got a middle son who has three grand in his account and won't spend it on anything and then I have a daughter who's 17 who's just like the 20 year old so one of the things that I've had to just as a dad to learn is I can teach I can show and model and then I can console when they're broke.

40:49Ken Coleman:And, and so my, my oldest and my youngest, I, and this is not my wife's natural path. She wants to do what you're doing. How can I help control and do all this kind of stuff? And it's really wonderful. But I have found that my 20 year old is beginning to learn the value of money because of the allocated money he gets versus his job, his part-time job. And when he's broke and he calls me I just go man that stinks buddy and now it's kind of a joke and at first it made him mad now he kind of gets it and now the calls aren't even coming in and uh he is finding a way and uh so I think in some ways you've done a wonderful job and you got to let that young man figure it out.

41:37Ken Coleman:And I think the best teacher in life is failure.

41:42Rachel Cruze:Luke, I'm curious, what set expenses, purchases are you buying that your mom would say is excessive?

41:49Ken Coleman:Like an iPad or cologne, headphones, depends.

41:55Rachel Cruze:Anything. Is that within the 40 % that's kind of allocated here? Step up to the mic.

42:00Ken Coleman:Can you get closer to the mic, Luke? Yeah, that's in the 40%. Yes. mom what do you want him to do with the instead of the ipad and the cologne those don't seem outrageous to me no the the ipad he gets it can loves a cologne i like to smell good i'm not gonna

42:18George Kamel:lie to you yeah well it's like i would not spend as much on perfume or cologne as as he did and it brought him great joy but i was thinking oh that's a lot of money and we had different upbringings i grew up with very, very little, and I've done pretty well for him. I think the deeper concern I have is I don't want him to be purchasing those items to impress others. And what I sometimes hear, and he's such a great kid, is, hey, I just got this cologne, and here's how much it costs, as he's talking to his friends. And I'm like, if you love it and you want it, then purchase it,

42:57Rachel Cruze:but not for the praise or the affirmation from others. And I think that's very fair because that is a contentment loop that only though can be broken by you, Luke. I mean, honestly, that's something that can't be learned up here. That's something that's gonna have to happen. So I'm a spender like you, so I feel ya. So a question I ask myself a lot is, before I make this purchase, I think if nobody sees this purchase, do I still want it? So the idea of how much of my motivation is for others or for affirmation, whatever the thing is, but if nobody was to see it, how much of this is just for me?

43:40Rachel Cruze:Because back to our point of like rolling the eyes of like the kid's birthday party or whatever it may be, right? People are going to value different things and people are going to say, oh my gosh, I would never spend X on a car. I would never spend X on, like, and that's, it's not immoral, but that's people what they value. And that's not necessarily wrong, but if there is a belief that this thing is going to make me happy or what I get from it, if I impress someone with the price tag, right? With that example she just used. Yeah, you'll be a rat in a wheel for the rest of your life running and getting nowhere.

44:07Rachel Cruze:And if the newness of stuff is what funds your happiness, again, there will be deep discontentment for the rest of your life and you'll be chasing the wrong thing and the finish line keeps moving. You think if I just could have this, I can get that. Or if it moves this way, I gotta catch up to this. So that's something, though, that I think is learned through life experience. I hate to say it, but I think that's a spiritual exercise more than anything. But the math side, George, of the investment side, right, if you actually invested some of this money, what that turns into is pretty astronomical.

44:40Rachel Cruze:And I know you're already saving a lot, Luke, which is great. Where are you saving exactly?

44:43George Kamel:Is it in a savings account? Savings account. Okay. What's your end game here? Are you wanting to build wealth and have some autonomy and freedom as a young man? Yes, absolutely. And do you see investing as a path to get there? Yes, absolutely. Well, let's crunch the numbers for you here. You're a young man, 18. You got all the time in the world on your side and you have time to fail. You got time to make the mistakes. But if you just went, hey, you know what? What if I, instead of buying that next doodad, I instead put that in a Roth IRA because you're earning income. Have you done that before?

45:15George Kamel:I have not, no. All right. I'm going to show you using our investment calculator.

45:18Rachel Cruze:Can we do his real numbers?

45:20George Kamel:I'm going to use your real number if you're willing to give it to me. Like savings or what? Yeah, so you have nothing in retirement now, no investment accounts. How much can you put away a month into investing? I don't know the exact number on that. Can you put$500 away? Yeah, absolutely. That seemed like a low number to you.

45:38Ken Coleman:You were like, absolutely, that's nothing. Hold on a second. Hold up. Mom is kind of going, I'm not sure.

45:43George Kamel:Well, what I would say is the big purchase that will be coming soon is a car, and we're going to do 50-50 and we've talked about it won't be a brand new car and there's you know there's reason because he he has$15 ,000 saved wow he's not yes yeah but he's not getting he's not getting a$30 ,000 car to start so I think he would need to I think probably about 200 to 300 a month would be good because it would be coming from his disposable income because he's also going to be going to college he's got short-term goals too yes so George split the difference? 250. We're going to go 250 from age 18 to age, let's say 60.

46:22George Kamel:All right. That's like an early retirement for most of America. 18 to 60, you put 250 bucks away into a Roth IRA and make that an on auto to where you never saw the money. It left your account when that paycheck hit. You don't have time to spend it. Here's what you'd have almost$2 million in that one account at 60. If you just did that, that's if you never got a raise, never put in more than that. And And that's tax-free withdrawals if it's in a Roth side because you used after-tax income to invest it. So that's like take-home pay. Think about it that way. That's a pretty good life at 60 without really doing much.

46:55George Kamel:You sort of had it on auto. And$250 for you is a drop in the bucket with the money you're already making at 18.

47:01Ken Coleman:Think about how good you're going to smell then. Oh, yeah.

47:05George Kamel:You could have your own cologne company by then. Yeah.

47:08Ken Coleman:You just rub money all over your face.

47:10George Kamel:I think you've got to think about the opportunity cost a little bit. Again, you're 18. I spent every one of my paychecks at 18. So he's doing astronomically well. So I think it's less about his spending issues. Yes, we need to dig into the motive and contentment. But I think, Mom, there's some control issues. There's some scarcity stuff that you might need to unpack too. So I think there's work on both of your parts to sort of get to the consensus that he's fine. He's doing better than most adults in America.

47:36Ken Coleman:I'm much less worried about him. And, Mom, you have done a great job with this young man. Give them some of your listeners. You guys are awesome. Great job. All right. Up next, we've got Bailey. Let's welcome Bailey to the mic.

47:52Ken Coleman:Hi, Bailey. Hi. Where are you from? Charlotte. Charlotte. Yeah. All right. What's your question?

47:57George Kamel:My question is, do you think it's good to invest in real estate now or should I wait until it goes down further?

48:05Ken Coleman:Until it goes down further?

48:07George Kamel:Yeah. Like if the market goes down

48:10Ken Coleman:What evidence are you seeing that that's going to happen?

48:14George Kamel:I'm not. I'm just wondering your opinion.

48:17Ken Coleman:Yeah, no. No, and I'm not. Yeah, I'm not trying to hang you up on that. I just wanted to know if like you were reading something or what you're sourcing to feel that way. I don't think that that's going to happen. You know, you might have some bubbles in certain areas, but by and large, how old are you?

48:33George Kamel:I'm like student age. Great. That's a range. I love that.

48:38Ken Coleman:You should go for Congress with that answer. I'll vote for you. Somewhere between 7 and 22. I'm student age. Okay. George, what do you think? Rachel, what do you think? Your husband is Mr. Realist.

48:53Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I want to know from you, where have you heard this that you think, oh, this is a really good plan and I need to do this? My parents and some of my teachers in school.

49:03George Kamel:Interesting.

49:04Rachel Cruze:Are you college or high school? High school. High school. Okay. Great.

49:08George Kamel:So where's the urgency coming from for you to own real estate?

49:12Rachel Cruze:No, I'm just trying to like, I'm just curious about the topic and I'm trying to plan ahead. Okay. I love that. So some learning. Okay. So we always say to invest in real estate when you're on baby step seven, which means you are completely debt-free, including your primary residence, completely debt-free. You're investing into retirement, 401ks, Roth IRAs, you're being smart about retirement from that perspective, 15%. And then above that, you can be investing more in baby step seven. And some people choose to invest more in the market. They'll have like a brokerage account or an index fund or a mutual fund that they'll put their money in.

49:45Rachel Cruze:Some people put their money in real estate. And so the key about real estate investing specifically, so there's the flip side and then there's the buy and hold. And the buy and hold strategy is that you want to buy low. So you'd find a short sale or a foreclosure, put some cash in it, all with cash. So we are all cash at this point. And then you hold it. And you hold it for 20 plus years. And then when your kids are graduating high school and going to college, you got to fund college. That's when some people cash out. They take that equity, fund their life, do what they want with it, or they keep it generationally, whatever that looks like.

50:19Rachel Cruze:And then there's the flip side. And the flip side is, again, you buy something really inexpensive that's really inexpensive. And you put some cash into it, fix it up, sell it for a little bit more. That's a little bit more of a job, I would say. That's more of a part-time job people have versus the holding and the hold strategy, if you will. So there's kind of two ways to do it, but that would be after. Yes. I would say after you're out of, if you're going to college or trade school, after all that's paid for, after you have a primary home for yourself and that's paid off and all of it, but it is a great strategy.

50:53Rachel Cruze:It is later in the steps for us, but it's a great question.

50:56George Kamel:Ignore all the social media trends that are like, you need to own 19 properties by the time you're 25 and here's why. And here's a course to sell you on it. avoid all of that noise out there.

51:05Rachel Cruze:And the noise that it's just passive income. You don't have to do anything. It's not a big deal. You just do it and then you get money. No, you don't. You deal with people. You deal with renters. You deal with contract. You are in it. It's not just passive. And honestly, you don't make as much as quick as you would sometimes even in the market. The real estate market and the stock market sometimes are at odds with each other. So sometimes you can make as much just investing and not doing anything versus putting all your effort into real estate. But I come from a real estate family. My husband loves it.

51:37Rachel Cruze:My dad loves it. So I am, I love, I do love real estate, but sometimes it could just be easier just to invest, to be honest. That's what George loves.

51:44George Kamel:George loves - I have no plans on owning investment property. No, thank you. I can't be a landlord. Look at me. Who's going to take me seriously? You're certainly not going to be able to kick anybody out of their house. No, they could take me in a fight, but it's a great question. I love you're thinking about this stuff.

51:59Ken Coleman:Well done, Bailey. The future's bright. Thank you.

52:05Ken Coleman:Our next question is brought to you by our friends at Why Refi. If any of you out there are watching on YouTube and listening, if you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out. We get it. But this is where Why Refi comes in. We love our partnership with them because they help borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at whyrefy.com slash Ramsey. George, how do we spell it? That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. How about that? George Camel everybody.

52:40Ken Coleman:It's an alley-oop. There it is. They don't even want to clap for you. They're so used to you doing it. They're impressed that I can spell a five-letter word. Cheap applause. Cheap applause. Up next, our next question is brought to you by Why Refy. Where's Megan? Let's welcome Megan to the mic. There we go. Hi Megan Hey Where are you from?

53:03George Kamel:I'm from Shelby, North Carolina

53:05Ken Coleman:Shelby, North Carolina What's your question?

53:07George Kamel:So I have an opportunity to pay off$30 ,000 in debt by working two jobs For like 10 to 12 months and I can get it all paid off But I am a single mother of two boys So I'm trying to weigh if it's worth it to pay it off in that short of a span of time or if I should try to spread it out.

53:30Ken Coleman:What is your concern? Is it the boys and being with them?

53:33George Kamel:Yes.

53:34Ken Coleman:How old are they?

53:35George Kamel:Eight and 11.

53:36Ken Coleman:Who would watch them when you're working and hustling?

53:38George Kamel:My mama.

53:39Ken Coleman:Your mama?

53:40George Kamel:Yes.

53:41Ken Coleman:So they would be in tremendous care, yes or no?

53:44George Kamel:Yes. Extra grandma time? Yes. They're not concerned with it, but I'm concerned that they won't express that is bothering them that I'm not around.

53:57Ken Coleman:Yeah. Have you explained to them that you're in a journey to pay off debt? Have you had that conversation? Obviously in context with an 8-year-old and an 11-year-old.

54:05George Kamel:Yes, I have, but I don't really think they understand the gravity of it.

54:09Ken Coleman:Yeah. Well, if you're not around as much, they might start to pay attention to it.

54:13George Kamel:Yes.

54:14Ken Coleman:I'm going to say it's your call. But if it were me, I think there's an awesome story in it. and I think if those eight-year-old boy that eight-year-old boy and 11-year-old boy see mama working so hard and they begin to see that mom is tired mama why are you working so hard for you I'm explaining what I'm doing and it may not all completely stick but I think that that intense timeline will take you to another level as a single mom because you're a hero and I say go for it the boys are going to be fine they don't appreciate time like you do and I do think your mama heart is going to be the hardest part of it and being bone tired, but I'd vote for do it for the story.

54:58Ken Coleman:You know what I mean? It's like the things that we press through and the things that shape us are the things that are really hard. But I think whatever you decide to do, you know, I'm in favor of. That's my thought. What do you all think? Rachel, what do you think?

55:14Rachel Cruze:I mean, I would say number one, Ken said it, but you're incredible. Any single parents that do this, that is unbelievable what you do day in and day out. So hear us say that. It is such a feat to raise kids. And at those ages, those are exactly, I have kids the exact ages. And it's just so, I'm exhausted. You know what I mean? And to do it day in and day out by yourself, you're incredible. Absolutely incredible. So they're seeing that. Yes, give a round of applause. Honestly, it's...

55:44George Kamel:I think there's a much higher chance the story they tell when they're older is, my mom worked her tail off her family and not, my mom wasn't around when we were kids.

55:52Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I would say it's going to affect you. You already said it. You said it yourself. It's going to affect you more than it affects them. I mean, honestly, I, and I, I mean, my, my dad, which I know is a different situation, but I mean, he, he was gone a lot. I mean, up until I was probably middle school, building and doing and teaching and traveling and working. I mean, it was constant. And I remember to a point that he set us all down because he was going on a book tour for the first book. And I remember he set us down and it was this big family meeting and it was so heavy. And he was like, I'm going to be gone.

56:27Rachel Cruze:And I think it was like close to 45 days to do a big book tour. And I'll be honest, I remember thinking, okay. Like, okay. So it's not that they don't care about you, but genuinely, I think if they're with someone that they love, it's gonna be hardest on you. So I think if you can get through it, I would. For 10 months, if you were saying 10 years, I'd be like, no. For 10 months, I think you can do anything. And forever, ever, amen. The weight of debt, it's gone. The chains, it's gone completely. And you have changed your family tree. When we talk about changing your family tree, that's it. They're not only watching it, but they're going to experience a freedom from their mom that you're about to give them.

57:10Rachel Cruze:And it's going to completely affect their life. And I think there's something about that intensity, and you just knock it out in 10 months. I would say do it, but I also say, as a mom, you make the best call for you in that.

57:24Ken Coleman:Megan, we got a fun little award for you.

57:27George Kamel:Okay.

57:27Ken Coleman:So you come on down. I'm going to tell the audience what we're giving you. We're giving you the Rice and Beans Award right here. This is a glass Tupperware. Real rice, real beans. Haven't been cooked yet. So you just give those to the boys and you explain what you're doing. It's your favorite? Rice and beans.

57:47Rachel Cruze:Rice and beans is my favorite.

57:50Ken Coleman:You were made for this. I had no idea. Hey, is this a single mama bear who's crushing it? Let her know how we feel about her. Let's go. Yeah. How about that? That's so good. Who knew that the Rice and Beans Award was going to go to her? I wish I had something better.

58:10Rachel Cruze:Something more bougie for you, girl.

58:12Ken Coleman:Well, now I wish I had cooked them.

58:14Rachel Cruze:I know. So she would have to cook them.

58:16Ken Coleman:I didn't cook them. So fun. Okay, next question is from Raquel. Raquel, where are you? Come on down. Oh, right over here. Give her some love while she gets to the mic. I got to say, the ladies are leading the charge tonight. Where are the men? Where are the men asking questions? By the way, another reminder, are there any couples that need this esteemed panel of judges to get in the middle of something? Go see Katie. She's waiting. Raquel, hi.

58:44Rachel Cruze:Hi. How are you? I'm good, thank you. Where are you from? So me and my fiance are recently engaged, and we just moved up from West Palm Beach, Florida, here to Charlotte.

58:52Ken Coleman:Okay. Yes. Fantastic. What's your question?

58:54George Kamel:so my question is in this new journey that we have together moving together being engaged the conversation of finances have definitely come up so we grew up drastically different opposites definitely attract and my relationship with money just in regards to what my family is like is very drastic than what his family is like and what he's used to and was exposed to And I think that a lot of people that I talk to in my day-to-day life have the same type of reservations when it comes to money in that talk in general. So I guess my question is layered. What would you say would be something that we can actively do to align our thoughts about money?

59:42Rachel Cruze:And what would you give as in advice to new couples trying to start their life together? Okay, so let me ask, how did he grow up? Paint me a picture of him and then you so we can kind of see what we're working with. Yes.

59:56George Kamel:So my family, I come from an immigrant household. I grew up in Florida. And, you know, my mom was very good with money with what she had. She was very good with budgeting.

1:00:06Rachel Cruze:But on the other side, I had a grandma and a family on my dad's side who made a lot of money but did not do well managing it. So I had really opposite sides of the spectrum when it came to how they handled their finances and a lot of misguidance.

1:00:22George Kamel:I'm not going to lie. His family, however, they grew up in Columbus, Georgia, a stay-at-home mom with a hardworking dad. And he, from what I understand, their family saved a lot of money, always had something in the emergency fund, budgeted really hard, but still gave themselves like those little luxuries of like Thanksgiving

1:00:45Rachel Cruze:vacation and things like that. So, but they were always financially conscious. Okay. So what's the tension point then? What do you feel like is, is that point of tension? Yeah. There's no tension per se. It's just, it's just like a mindset thing for me. Like I, I guess I had. Scarcity, would you say for you? Yes. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Yes. More scarcity. He's more abundance. You're more probably, I don't want to say stress. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're very aware, know what's going on. And he's like, it's going to be okay. We're fine. No. Okay. So tell me. So give me more.

1:01:23George Kamel:He has a scarcity mindset. And that's exactly. So because of the way that I grew up, I guess I don't really know like what's a good point. Like how much is too much frugality and how much is like too much overspending? So I'm still in my personal finance journey trying to figure out what a happy medium is.

1:01:44Ken Coleman:So you're kind of an agnostic and then you're just kind of like, I'm not sure about this whole money thing. And he's just like tight, so tight he squeaks.

1:01:52George Kamel:Yes, he is. It's very different, our dynamic. Like I want to give ourselves a little luxuries in life, but he would definitely squeal over the$2 Chipotle guac. Oh, yeah. Guac, that's all right.

1:02:06Ken Coleman:Boy, I feel like we've got to bring the tightest person I know in the conversation, George Campbell. Welcome to the party, my man. This guy won't pay two bucks for anything.

1:02:14George Kamel:I just think it's a ripoff.

1:02:16Ken Coleman:I'd rather go make guacamole at home at that point. Oh, boo. That was a flex. You just wanted everybody to know that you know how to make guacamole. I don't, but I could if I wanted to. So, okay. So speak, speak to her from his perspective. Cause you get that.

1:02:30George Kamel:Yeah. My wife to this day is like, Hey man, can we not do this frugal game right now to save a buck? But it's just, it's a, I find it enjoyable for me. So I don't bring her into it. It's, you know, none of her business. She's saving money. She should be happy. But I do think there's a, there's a level of this is their personality style and that part won't change. And then there's an alignment on the values and goals. and that's the part you guys need to focus on, not the minutia of, hey, he wants to be frugal in this area. Now, the more it affects you and the more it's detached from the reality of your financial situation.

1:03:03George Kamel:If you guys are multimillionaires and he's like, we can't afford this, that's a different situation than, hey, I'd rather not spend money on that. That's not a priority for me, but you can get the guac. That's where I'm going, okay, that's where we need to get to as you guys step into marriage is being aligned with the values and the goals. And over time, you will be doing better financially. So right now he may have good reason to have a scarcity mindset because he doesn't have his family's money.

1:03:27Ken Coleman:Right.

1:03:27George Kamel:Right. He's starting a new chapter on his own.

1:03:29Ken Coleman:Here's what I'm feeling. I just want to throw this in there. So I think because we called you in a fun way and agnostic because you're just kind of figuring out what is my money values.

1:03:38George Kamel:Yeah.

1:03:38Ken Coleman:Because you love him, because you guys are going to do life together, I think it would be great to lean into him a little bit for a while.

1:03:45George Kamel:Yeah.

1:03:45Ken Coleman:And kind of go, okay. And then the easiest way, and George, I want you to weigh in, and Rachel too, but I'm sitting here listening going, I think it would be great if you really got serious about budgeting. Because the more clear and disciplined your budget is, if you want the$2 guac and he goes, because of how he's wired in the environment that he grew up in, which is all real and totally okay, then you have a budget and you can remind him, hey, it's totally in there. Am I right? I was going to say, yes, absolutely.

1:04:18Rachel Cruze:Because I think there's the high level tactical, which may just take care of itself, honestly. So since you guys are engaged, I would open up a checking account together and I would put some money in for the wedding, some expenses coming up. And you guys start to practice, what does this feel like to start doing money together? And do a mock budget of both of your salaries. You know what you make and you guys are going to, so be like, hey, let's just for fun, let's make a household budget, what this is going to look like. Here's mine, here's yours. And like play a game, bring them both together.

1:04:45Rachel Cruze:and be like, how close are we with this? Because that's going to say, that's going to, from a high level, honestly may actually eliminate some of this when you guys are working together on a plan and you're being very specific about where the income's going. So that's big. And then number two, I would say, because opposites attract, and I know this in my marriage, Ken, same with you and Whitney. I have learned to lean into Winston's strengths and he's learned to lean into mine. So you're both a gift. You both bring something to the table that the other person needs. So I always say with Winston, if it weren't for Winston, I would probably be broke.

1:05:20Rachel Cruze:Because he is. He's so big on the saving and Excel sheets. But honestly, I look at that now as a wife and I'm so thankful. I feel taken care of, honestly, that I'm like, thank you for taking care of that stuff. Because it does, it gives me a level of peace. And then if it weren't for me, he would have no fun in life. Exactly. I bring the fun. That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? I bring the fun. And so I feel like we're a lot alike.

1:05:42George Kamel:As a token of friendship too, my new friend over here, I have an award for him.

1:05:46Rachel Cruze:I have an award for her.

1:05:47George Kamel:This is perfect.

1:05:48Rachel Cruze:Oh, my God. This is amazing.

1:05:50George Kamel:Go ahead, Rachel.

1:05:51Rachel Cruze:Okay. I'm going to give you my award. You're a free spirit. You're like me. Oh, thank you. Is this what you want? Yes, it is. I'm going to give you a little bottle of champs. A little champagne bottle.

1:06:02Ken Coleman:And we're going to give it to her for both of them.

1:06:04George Kamel:So, George, you give her the same one for me. All right. I have for your fiancee the frugal camel award. I got this from Goodwill so just so you know I didn't even spend full price on this so give this to him as a reminder that it's okay to be a little bit you know resourceful with your money

1:06:26Ken Coleman:as I say I like how you glammed cheap up I just I wanted people to know I appreciate that I wouldn't have bought that on my own volition I know you would not have I paid good money for that he would have A tried to barter for it and then ask Ramsey solutions to pay for it. That's how that went there.

1:06:43George Kamel:Thank you again. Yeah, you're awesome.

1:06:45Ken Coleman:Give her some love. Congrats, guys. That's super sharing.

1:06:46Rachel Cruze:Congrats.

1:06:48Ken Coleman:Now.

1:06:50Rachel Cruze:I think we have a couple, Ken, by the way.

1:06:52Ken Coleman:Well, I'm excited. But before we go to our next question, one of my favorite things in a live audience is I like to scan the crowd, just get a feel what's happening. And I noticed that our single friend next to you, sir, has left her seat. Oh. Oh, she's up to ask a question. Rachel's helping me out. I thought, what did you do? Did you like swing an arm around and it got uncomfortable? I mean, I practically set the table for you. So, okay, things are good. There she is. It's Grace, our single friend from the front row. Grace.

1:07:28Rachel Cruze:Thank you, guys, for coming to Charlotte to come to us so that we can ask the questions.

1:07:32Ken Coleman:You're such a good sport, by the way.

1:07:34Rachel Cruze:Thank you. My question is how to let the gazelle rest. I started this journey back in 2016 when Dave was here for a smart money tour. I was one of the volunteers, and that's when I got really sucked into the cult. I drank the Kool-Aid.

1:07:53George Kamel:So I was gazelle intense for about five to six years, finally got out of debt, so I got to zero.

1:08:01Rachel Cruze:I was not in the negative anymore. I finally got to zero. I switched careers and cash flowed an electrical degree. And then now that I am working and having so much fun with what I do as my career, the gazelle is still running. I do not spend money, and I look for coupons. If I go to a 7-Eleven and the soda pop is$1 a nine, I won't pay for it because I won't pay more than 99 cents.

1:08:31George Kamel:I've gone too far that way. Wish I had an extra frugal camel for you back here.

1:08:37Ken Coleman:One question too late. So let me dig on that. So let's just, for everybody to know, what's your future look like financially? Your retirement, you're all set, you look beautiful, don't have anything to worry about. Is that correct? Yes, I'm retired military. Okay. So that's always there. By the way, thank you for your service. You're great. Thank you.

1:08:59George Kamel:And then I have, I'm back to work because I just love it so much.

1:09:03Rachel Cruze:but it all goes 100 % goes into the 401k, 457b, HSA, IRA.

1:09:11Ken Coleman:What are you worried about? What are you worried about from your past financially that worries you? Because I think at the source of this is fear.

1:09:22George Kamel:It is.

1:09:23Ken Coleman:I know. What is it? What are you afraid that's going to happen? Be as specific as you can and there's zero judgment on what you're about to say. Just let it rip. What are you afraid of?

1:09:34George Kamel:that I will end up as my mother.

1:09:37Ken Coleman:Oh, there it is. Describe how your mom ended up.

1:09:42Rachel Cruze:We grew up on a farm, you know, three channels, no cable. So we thought we were very poor. But then in the 80s and 90s, the advent of housing developments, we kind of realized that we weren't poor. Mom just liked to sew. She liked to cook from scratch. but after my mom and dad divorced she didn't have a lot of money but she didn't aspire to a lot either she's very simple woman but when she got cancer you don't want to send anybody to a facility that takes medicaid um so i moved in with her to be her caregiver

1:10:22Ken Coleman:so you don't want to end up i don't want to end up a financial burden to somebody Exactly.

1:10:27George Kamel:I don't want to end up like that. What would have to be true based on your financial situation right now?

1:10:34Ken Coleman:What would have to happen for you to be a financial burden in your old age? What would have to happen? For me to be a financial burden? You're not right now. You're not going to be. So I'm saying what would have to happen for you to have no money to take care of yourself and someone else? What would you have to do?

1:10:55George Kamel:I'd have to crypto.

1:10:57Ken Coleman:Yeah. What are the, and sure, that's great. And what else would you have to do? Gamble. Gamble. I like that.

1:11:08George Kamel:You'd have to deplete all of your investment accounts completely. Yeah.

1:11:12Ken Coleman:You'd have to do that. Right? That's what would cause it. It's not a trick question. I'm painting you into a corner to see that it's a 0 % chance of you squandering what you have saved. True or false?

1:11:29George Kamel:True.

1:11:30Ken Coleman:So you're free.

1:11:31George Kamel:There's a much higher chance when you pass, you will have millions and millions sitting there that you can't take with you. That's the goal. That's what I'm saying. I think we need to readjust our goal here. Okay. Now, obviously you're single. Do you have any family? Right now she is. Someone's going, hey. I'm doing my best part, I'll tell you that right now. He's trying. So yeah, are there any people in your life that you would even leave the money to?

1:12:07Rachel Cruze:I would leave it to organizations like for disabled veterans.

1:12:10Ken Coleman:Wow. That's beautiful. Do you mind sharing? do you mind sharing right now what you have in retirement what do you have what's your nest egg

1:12:20Rachel Cruze:right now so for five years i've managed 275 that's fantastic way to go and you have zero debt

1:12:28Ken Coleman:no zero and you're crushing it is your are you an electrician building inspector building inspector okay good for you so you're doing very well we're always going to need building inspectors. You know who can't do building inspections? AI. Come on, let's go. Amen to that. So you're in great shape.

1:12:47Rachel Cruze:How old are you? Can I ask? 56. That's right. We do. Okay. So 50. Okay. So do you have a specific dollar amount in mind that you're wanting to get to for retirement? No, you don't. Okay. So I would have somewhat of a goal because you have 200 and what'd you say? 75 ,000. That's great. Okay. But, but also you, you're going to want to want more for retirement. So I would plan out, sit down with a financial advisor and just say, hey, what's a number I need to shoot for? And all of that is is a goal, okay? This isn't an identity thing. It's just an idea of, hey, I have to get to this place. So that's going to give you some healthy motivation to know, am I being cheap here or there?

1:13:25Rachel Cruze:I don't know. But you have something you're actually shooting for. And then the second thing is once you start to get to that place, you know, money is so funny. It can be such a part of bondage for so many people. and on one end people spend, they go deeply in debt and money becomes an idol to them because it's just like, oh my gosh, it's all they think about because they're stressed on one end because they've made bad decisions with money. And then you have people on the other end of the spectrum where money takes up as much mental calories as people over here, but they have it. And it's actually stolen their freedom.

1:13:59Rachel Cruze:You're not free. That's what it feels like. Mathematically you are. So that's the piece from an emotional standpoint I would want to start working on of what is causing that fear. I know you said your mom and all of that, but really like from day in, day out, what is going on in me that's causing me to live life like this? Because from a spiritual perspective, there's a level of bondage there that has to be broken. And so I think a goal is going to help you genuinely. I think shooting for something where you feel safe of like a number of like, okay, I know this feels good that you get to. But then there's an emotional piece too, because if you're not careful, that number you're going to get to, you're gonna be like it's not enough I got I need some more and that finish line moves and you stay in that for the rest of your life so so I yeah I would be I would be thinking about that and asking yourself some of those questions of what can cause me to be free to live life with an open hand because some people that are not I'm not saying this is you because you're a very generous person the way you've served in your life and your actions so I don't want to paint you in this corner but some people that live life like this they're not they tend not to be generous people they have a harder time giving as well so that open hand mentality is so important with money But I don't think you have that problem because of everything you just laid about your life story.

1:15:07Rachel Cruze:I don't think so either.

1:15:08Ken Coleman:And you have a paid for house, yes?

1:15:09Rachel Cruze:Oh, yeah.

1:15:10Ken Coleman:What's the house worth?

1:15:13Rachel Cruze:Three, maybe, out in the county.

1:15:14Ken Coleman:You're going to be fine. Because 56 in my book is young. You know what I'm saying? So you're in great shape. And you know what? I want to do something for Grace. We got a little something. We never know what we're going to give. How much stuff do you guys have back here? I got a lot of stuff back here. I got a lot of stuff. I had my champagne bottle. Sir on the front row, pay attention to what I'm doing. Grace, come on down. We have some flowers for you.

1:15:39Ken Coleman:You're so sweet. You're awesome. Give it up for Grace one more time.

1:15:49Ken Coleman:Okay, James, can I call an audible? Do you trust me? Can Rachel call it? Well, let's be honest. Rachel's been talking to my ear. Rachel can do what she wants. Rachel, why don't you tell everybody what you were telling me in my ear? I know. I like this.

1:16:01Rachel Cruze:Because we love a set of the debate. It's one of our favorites. And so I saw a couple's hand over here that said they would volunteer for a couple's debate. Is this true? Yes, okay.

1:16:11Ken Coleman:Where are they?

1:16:12Rachel Cruze:They're right here in the front.

1:16:13Ken Coleman:Stand up and head to the mic, please. Head to the mic.

1:16:15Rachel Cruze:We're about to settle a debate. Yes. It's what we want.

1:16:19Ken Coleman:Thank you, James, our fearless leader.

1:16:22Rachel Cruze:It's what we want.

1:16:22Ken Coleman:This is what we have come here for.

1:16:25Rachel Cruze:This is our favorite. I don't know why you all are here.

1:16:27Ken Coleman:I know why we're here. It's to settle a debate. No, I kid. Okay, this is fun. we want to know your name so let's start with ma 'am your name jessica jessica and joel and what joel or joel joel yeah i'll go with joel because i'll butcher the other one you know okay and where are you guys from mexico mexico no way thanks for coming okay somebody set it up what is the debate that you want this esteemed panel of judges to weigh in on so we we have um

1:16:59George Kamel:sort of combined our finance since we came here to the U.S. But there's some money that was before or things that just had like a house and yes, some savings or some stocks that we haven't combined. So we were last week in Cozumel and we were having just some tension and discussions about it.

1:17:30Ken Coleman:So I don't know. Who wants to do what? Let's give us the two positions. Yes, so I would like to know how can I better show her that she trusts me, maybe. Oh. So what do you want to do, sir? What is the position? What do you want to do that you would like her to trust you with?

1:18:03George Kamel:Just fully combined finance and everything. Just not finance, but everything.

1:18:08Ken Coleman:Everything.

1:18:08George Kamel:Everything is ours.

1:18:09Ken Coleman:Love your heart. Okay. Okay. So, Jessica, I mean, the guy is emotional. What a heart. Jessica, what are you concerned about? And by the way, not judging you. What are you concerned about? What are your fears or disagreements on this?

1:18:27George Kamel:So I'm not sure what's the best way to bring that money here in the relationship

1:18:35Ken Coleman:because we are thinking maybe to buy a house. But I have around$150 ,000 and we could bring that money into the house, but I'm not sure if that's good for the relationship. Okay, let's stop right there. what would be what do you think that money and combining things how would it harm your relationship?

1:18:59George Kamel:Because probably he will feel like the house is mine or something like that.

1:19:05Ken Coleman:I pause. Sir, Joel, will you feel that way? No.

1:19:14George Kamel:I mean I think it's whenever we have these discussions I hear that she wants to take care of her parents or help them. And this is where I think at some point, I don't know if she feels that I'm not supportive to help her parents. We come from different backgrounds. My parents are retired. They don't need any help. But on her end, more like a scarcity background. And I think this is also like how we get emotional.

1:19:50Ken Coleman:Is he on target in that your fear is if we combine money, I will lose control of my desire to help my mom and dad? Yep. Okay. What do you need to hear from him tonight to alleviate that fear?

1:20:11George Kamel:Like he will be supportive with my desire to help them.

1:20:17Rachel Cruze:and we can make a plan or something like that.

1:20:20Ken Coleman:Okay. Joel, what have you not told her or what do you want to reemphasize to her right now about that concern?

1:20:28George Kamel:I would say that as for now, we have maybe supported them the best we knew before, just with money. But now I think we can support them with a plan, with experiences or even saving some that we can manage for us and for them that in the future can help with the diseases that they might have or they are not planning and we are foreseeing it. But I think writing a plan and really aligned to that will be helpful. And then in 10, 15 years or whenever the money is needed, we have it. and it's better managed than if we just give it to them. And then my fear is that they might not use it in the best way and we can help better with experiences.

1:21:23Ken Coleman:Jessica, do you understand his concern on that piece?

1:21:27George Kamel:I get it at some point, but also I'm not sure if maybe just like,

1:21:33Rachel Cruze:Not like a big amount, but something smaller that we can give them now. And then... Are they in need, Jessica, right now, financially?

1:21:48Rachel Cruze:Yes and no. Are they asking for money from you? No. Okay. So what's causing you to say, we have to give some money? I need to be helping them now. What is that?

1:22:01George Kamel:I think it's more because I would like them to have experiences or comfort that I have now and they don't have. So you feel guilty because of everything they've done for you, and yet you're living a better life than them. And so you want to sort of pay it back, pay it forward in that sense.

1:22:21Ken Coleman:Are you guys ready to... Settle the debate? Yeah.

1:22:24Rachel Cruze:Yes.

1:22:24Ken Coleman:I know that I am, but I want to make sure. Are you? I am. I'm ready to be a judge. Get the gavel out. Hold on a second.

1:22:30Rachel Cruze:Oh, not the wig. Oh, my Lord.

1:22:33George Kamel:Oh, my Lord. What is our prop budget? This is wild.

1:22:44Ken Coleman:It's not powdered. All right. Am I going first or last? I feel like you have to go first now. I feel like I have so much credibility with this and this that it might sway your decision. But I'll go first. We have different definitions of credibility, but continue. I did notice that both Jessica and Joel went from crying to laughing, so I think it did its job. Okay, I think it's very simple. I heard his heart immediately. He wants you to trust him that he's for you, and if he's for you, he's for your parents. I hear your concern as well, but I also hear that Joel's saying, I'm not sure that my in-laws, your parents, are the best ones to handle a large sum of money, and so if we commit and he's committed to writing a plan out to take care of them but you use the money it's your money and you support them i think it's a great plan i think his heart's even better than his plan so i rule in favor of joel really that's all i get

1:23:52Rachel Cruze:can i have the gavel oh yes yes thank you do you want the wig i think no no you don't

1:23:57George Kamel:I think she's good. She's good.

1:23:59Rachel Cruze:I'm fine. I'm fine.

1:23:59George Kamel:Burn that.

1:24:02Rachel Cruze:My vote is I would combine everything. Shocker, I know. But I would. I would combine everything. I think he needs to hear from you that you choose him over your parents because you've chosen to get married. And that man loves you a lot. Loves you a lot. And he's going to take good care of you. You guys are together going to make a really great team. And I think out of the teamwork, we get to build a life together. and that looks like whatever you guys want. That's the beauty about being adults is you get to make decisions. So together, do we want to buy a home? Together, do we want to take her parents on a trip every year with us and include them and fly them where they need to be for the kids?

1:24:43Rachel Cruze:If you guys have kids in the future, like what does that all look like with the money that we have together? So on that basis, I think I'm more in favor with Joel.

1:24:57George Kamel:Wow.

1:24:59Rachel Cruze:All right. Oh, no. Sorry, Kate.

1:25:02George Kamel:Hold on. It's fine. It's not real. It's not real, guys.

1:25:04Ken Coleman:George, I want to make sure you see it. The object is to hit this with that. What?

1:25:10George Kamel:Oh, I missed it. Okay. I'll end with this. I definitely agree with what they've said, but I think that the heart of this, Joel is, he's rightfully so worried that this is going to turn into entitlement from your parents and even enabling. and he truly wants to help them. He loves these people. And I think he wants a plan to make them independent, not because he doesn't want to support them, but because he actually believes in their autonomy to live their lives without needing you. And I think that is a noble goal. So I do think you should combine finances, but I think you should create boundaries around what this looks like to support your parents, maybe even a deadline.

1:25:50George Kamel:And not just that forever, we're going to write checks to them and that's going to be the priority of our relationship. because at the heart of this, the lack of combining finances has created a chasm in your marriage. There is a gap right now where you guys can't be fully together. And it's not a money thing. It's an emotional thing. It's an intimacy thing. And I think that supersedes the help to your parents. And I think you guys are an amazing couple. You will figure out the boundaries and how to do this the right way. But I think combining those finances will actually free you just more than you think.

1:26:19George Kamel:So I rule in favor of Joel.

1:26:22Ken Coleman:but but hey hold on oh a parting gift i like the gifts how much alcohol we got a nice bottle of josh you two need to crack this bottle tonight and start the written plan all right there it is there you go you guys are awesome thank you guys you're great

1:26:44George Kamel:what's the dumbest thing you've ever done with money bought a car i probably shouldn't have What car was that? It was a Chevrolet Camaro.

1:26:50Ken Coleman:Whenever I first started investing, I definitely just threw money at, like, some meme stocks that didn't pay off. So I learned pretty quick. Bought a car, and then the car went bad. I got frustrated and sold it. And then me and my wife were with one car for seven years.

1:27:10George Kamel:If you had to cover a$1 ,000 emergency, how would you do it right now? Credit card. I would pull it out of savings or phone a friend. Okay, so you have the money in savings. That's good. Get money out of my emergency fund. You have one. Okay, how many months of expenses do you have? Stored away. Three months of expenses. Honestly, I have a really good village, so I can lean on that if I don't have it.

1:27:34Ken Coleman:Speaking of drinks, you guys know a little something about drinks.

1:27:37George Kamel:Smart Money Happy Hour. Yeah, Rachel created a whole show where she gets to drink on the clock. What?

1:27:42Rachel Cruze:No! Smart Money Happy Hour was created because I was like, wouldn't it be fun if me and George got to sit down and chat like we do as friends, have a cocktail, talk about things going on? It's great. But part of Smart Money and Happy Hour, and one of our partners there, is Fairwinds Credit Union. So we're going to give them another shout out because they are amazing. And I know we've talked about them tonight, but Fairwinds is such a great partner with Ramsey because when you are using your money and you are having to interact with banks and banking institutions, having someone on the other side of that that is so helpful, that you know they are for you in your journey with the baby steps, that's everything.

1:28:20George Kamel:Absolutely, and I mentioned that Smart Bundle earlier. It's got a fee-free checking account, high-yield savings account, that Ramsey-branded, dead-as-normal, be weird debit card, and you can have up to 10 savings accounts. They created this just for our fans because we know that y 'all are nerdy and you like to have sinking funds for the trip and for the car and for all these different things. So they actually change their product to serve you guys better, and that's why we've loved this partnership They even cut international transaction fees on their cards after they saw one of my videos where I said, make sure your debit card doesn't do this.

1:28:51George Kamel:So they said, let's adjust everything to serve the Ramsey fans in an incredible way. So if you want to check that out, just go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to open up that smart bundle and start to introduce this new bank to the mix. And I think you'll quickly find you want to start doing more and more with them.

1:29:06Rachel Cruze:Yeah, their app is easy to use. Their interface is easy. Their customer service is incredible. When you open it, they call you the next day on the phone just to make sure everything. So, I mean, it really is. They are incredible people, and they have an incredible product when it comes to us that you have to use your debit card every single day. And so having Fairwinds on your side is so huge. So, again, go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

1:29:29Ken Coleman:I love it. By the way, real quick question. How's my hair look after having the wig on? Is it all right?

1:29:33George Kamel:It looks good. Okay, I just want to make sure.

1:29:35Ken Coleman:I don't want to be a distraction. I'll remain silent. Thank you, George. This is really, really fun. George, you got your calculator ready? Why do you assume that I have my calculator ready? And yes, I do. Because we talked about it earlier. It's ready.

1:29:47Rachel Cruze:It says, and yes, I do.

1:29:48Ken Coleman:It's ready. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to have a fun group debt-free scream. How does that sound? Does that sound fun? But we're going to do something kind of neat. So here's what we want you to do. If you have become debt-free in the last 12 months, would you stand? Just stand wherever you are. That's consumer debt-free. If you did the mortgage too, that's great. That's fine. But it does not have to be the house, right, George? Yeah, exactly. So they're standing up there. That's exciting. We got a few more. Okay.

1:30:15Rachel Cruze:Yes, yes, yes.

1:30:16Ken Coleman:Everybody stand. I want to make sure everybody's up because this is a key part of the thing. Is everybody up?

1:30:21Rachel Cruze:Oh, look out. Okay, great.

1:30:23Ken Coleman:Okay, now here's what we're going to do. So I'm going to assist George, and I'm going to start on the right side of the room and work my way over. And what I want you to do is yell out how much you paid off. George is going to add it all up, and we're going to see what has happened collectively to pay off debt in the last 12 months. And then we'll do a group debt-free screen. Love it. All right? I'm at the ready. Let's start up here because I saw, ma 'am, how much? $265 ,000. $265 ,000. That's a strong start. Amazing. Anybody else up there? Yes, sir. $175 ,000. $175 ,000.

1:30:58Rachel Cruze:That's our man again.

1:31:00Ken Coleman:Okay, fantastic. And after you give me your number, you can sit down if you want, but we're going to ask you to stand back up. But you can rest. Right here with the Clemson shirt on. Yes. $1 ,500. $1 ,500. $1 ,500. That's great. We love it.

1:31:13Rachel Cruze:We love it.

1:31:14Ken Coleman:Okay. Right here. $27 ,000. $27 ,000. Nice. Good job. I'll tell you what we're going to do. Let's hold applause so we can move a little quicker. I love your spirit, but we got to move quickly. I want to get $12 ,000. $12 ,000. Okay. Great. $290 ,000. $290 ,000. In the back. Right here. The couple right here. 250 ,000 behind them 150 okay excellent uh ma 'am all the way in the back row how much 3 ,000 I love it girl okay are you all three together just you two okay yell it out 380 ish okay George I don't know how you're going to calculate that my phone can handle it Okay. Next to them. Yes, ma 'am.

1:32:07Ken Coleman:233 ,000. Okay. And anybody on this? Okay. Now this couple right back here. Yes, sir. What? 66 ,000 right here. 75 ,000 right here. 150 ,000 right here. 168 ,000 and? 39 ,000. Did I miss anybody? Okay. All those people stand back up.

1:32:35Rachel Cruze:Ken, can I add?

1:32:36Ken Coleman:You can. Before we do that, let's, let's get a total. George, what do you have? About$2.3 million. Wow. Gosh. Okay. And you got a fun idea?

1:32:46Rachel Cruze:Yes. It's a lot of hard work. Okay. I want everyone who is debt-free consumer debt or mortgage, regardless of when you paid it off to stand up. So you can be part of this.

1:32:59Ken Coleman:Join this amazing group. If you are debt free in the room. Look at this.

1:33:02Rachel Cruze:Stand up.

1:33:03Ken Coleman:Everybody up. Okay. This is fun. Amazing. George, would you like to do the honors to count them down? It would be an honor. You guys know what we're doing. George will count you down. And I mean, this is from your guts because you worked hard. And we're so proud to be in the room with all of you. You all are heroes. You've changed your family tree. George, count them down. Let's hear a group debt-free scream.

1:33:29George Kamel:All right, we've got$2.3 million paid off in the last 12 months in this room alone in Charlotte, North Carolina, and dozens more have become debt-free standing up following this plan. Count it down, guys. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

1:33:57George Kamel:That is incredible. That'll put a little pep in your stack.

1:34:02Ken Coleman:And we don't have time to go around and get everybody else's amount, but 2.3 million is just a drop in the bucket. Just in the year. So great. Hey, listen, you all are great. Before we sign off, I just want my colleagues a word of encouragement. but what would you share with people no matter what baby step they're in? They're here for a reason tonight. They're here to be intentional. George, what would you share?

1:34:21George Kamel:Well, you know, I see a lot of headlines. I see a lot of scary stuff. I see a lot of doom and gloom out there. And yet in this room, there's just a beacon of hope. And you guys are not immune to it. You've lived through it. You've sacrificed. You've had trials and tribulations. And yet you're on the other side of it. And that I think is one of the most inspiring stories America needs to hear right now. And you guys are living it. And I'm so proud of all of you. So thank you for being here.

1:34:46Rachel Cruze:So good. Amen, George.

1:34:54Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I would say regardless of where you are in the baby steps, and some of you are maybe starting baby step one, right, in all of this, and then you just saw everyone who's paid off debt, and the numbers are just outstanding of those of you that just stood up. But I would say regardless of where you are, the secret is you. And I think you know that. And, you know, what you want different in your life, you get to make decisions to change that. What you don't like about your life, you get to make decisions to change that. And I feel like we're in a room of people who are willing to do that and willing to face one of the hardest subjects in life, which is money from a tactical side, an emotional side, a spiritual side.

1:35:29Rachel Cruze:And you guys are so engaged and you are not letting this topic ruin your life. You're getting ahead of it and you're saying, you know what, I'm gonna be in control and we're gonna change the things we need to change. And that takes a lot of courage. So we love you guys so much. We love doing this show and we love being able to see the faces tonight of those of you that listen. So we love y 'all.

1:35:49Ken Coleman:Yeah, that's so good.

1:35:56Ken Coleman:I'll just dovetail off of Rachel. I think she said it, you all did it. You know, we talk about controlling the controllables and I'm looking at a room full of people, no matter what their story, no matter what their circumstances, no matter what their background, no matter what their environment, was at some point you made a decision to control what only you could control and you changed your life. Some of you are in the process of changing your life and you are the answer. We aren't the answer. We're just cheerleading you on, coaching you up, but you are the difference. And I want to share that no matter what happens later tonight or in the days or years ahead, whatever comes your way, you've won in a major area and you control what you can control.

1:36:43Ken Coleman:Don't worry about DC. Don't worry about your governor's office. Don't worry about what your neighbors are doing. You live the life that you want to live and you can because you've done it to this point. So we're so honored to be with you all. I do want to do one thing. I do want you all to join me. We have an incredible crew that came from Nashville, our headquarters, an amazing team from James Childs to our live event team to our Ramsey Network leadership, Ramsey Network crew. If you're on the crew, would you stand up for just a second? Because I would love we can't do this. It's going to change so many lives and we can't do this without them.

1:37:21Ken Coleman:So would you all join us in thanking them?

1:37:34Ken Coleman:hey you guys are great on behalf of our entire team dave ramsey george camel rachel cruz thank you all for being with us we love you so much good night charlotte thanks guys have a great night