"My Husband Destroyed Our Finances, Should I Leave Him?"

29:33And so, yeah, I'm so sorry you're going through this. The great news is that when you're the other side of it, you will have learned several lessons if you learn them. And you need to write them out. I'll tell you what some of them are. never cosign never accept a cosign never buy a piece of property with nothing down don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work it doesn't work it doesn't cash flow there's no possible way this nothing down tiktok crap works it's a don't get in the airbnb business either brayden don't follow your mom's footsteps yeah and quit looking for all the get rich quick stuff every one of these things is in the get rich quick stuff but write down okay I don't need partners.

30:17I don't need co-signers. And I don't need favors from friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and overborrow on and trap me in. And so, you know, one of my lessons is I never co-sign. That's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you and I went broke. And one of the lessons I learned is I don't have the only ship that won't sail is a partnership. I'm not in partners with anybody, period. One of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore, period. The borrower is slave to the lender. And boy, don't you feel that right now, man.

30:51Gosh, I'm so sorry, Braden. But a short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program. It's not necessarily start it, but I would start it. I would get it on the market and get an offer that you can take to the mortgage company and have them accept a reduced payout on the mortgage called a short sale without recourse. if they don't say without recourse they're going to sue you for the difference as if they had foreclosed on you and brayden you're you're a go-getter you're doing stuff at 21 but this real estate the real estate world there's so many traps what we just laid out earlier in the call what dave was saying so remember those okay it's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great remember these principles and it's going to be a more boring ride but a safer ride for you.

32:07Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep, uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable, so you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury, it's an investment. And the ROI is your well-being. So go to casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25 % off mattresses and 10 % off everything else. You get free shipping too. That's casper.com slash Ramsey, promo code Ramsey. Exclusions apply.

32:53Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Amanda. How are you? Fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executrix of his estate but like you he had some rough times financially early on but persevered and he ended up doing really well in his life he also tried to be generous my mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia before he passed my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs we don't know that side of the family very well and I met aunt D's descendants at the funeral but each month$2 ,100 of her care is paid by someone on her side and then$2 ,660 is paid by my mother well each year the cost of the care goes up and we just received notice that it'll be going up by$500 this next year and so I told my mom in passing that and I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra$500.

33:59In fact, she doesn't want to absorb any of it. She wants to continue to pay$26.60 and have Aunt Dee's descendants pick up the rest. I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness goes, but the thing is my mom is set for life. She's able to absorb the entire annual cost of the nursing home, and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life. What is the net worth now? How much money does your mom have? It's over$5 million. Okay. So this is not a math issue. This is an emotion issue. Yeah, I definitely think it's an emotion issue. So did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions other than verbally to you?

34:39There's nothing in writing. It's only verbally. So I just— How did you find out about it? You found out about it before he passed? Yes. He didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died, and then it was just like talk, talk, talk, and I just took a bunch of notes. Oh, gosh. Okay. And when he was talking and you took notes, he said to do what regarding the nursing home? He said, I've been helping with Aunt Dina's cost, and that's all he said. I'll just continue to do that. She's very old. Mm-hmm. Does her family, and her family's paying$2 ,100 of it. That's right.

35:18Would$500 be a burden to them, do you feel like? i i mean i don't know but i assume so they all they have blue-collar jobs and um yeah and you're frustrated because you're like mom you could spend a couple grand and it's all done you know the extra 500 right right so in the spirit of the thing is you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do but and you're still in charge of it the estate has not been closed out no there's a lot Okay. And he passed a year ago? Yes. Okay, so you're still managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate. Yes, and I probably will for the rest of her life.

36:05How old is she? She's only 75. She has the beginnings of dementia. Yeah, but that's different than you being the executrix of your dad's estate. You understand that's now becoming her power of attorney. which I also have okay okay all right so the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs exactly yeah so if you've crossed over into managing her affairs you would have to do it at her behest if you're still managing his affairs you would do what he wanted so what do you think it is well that's why i'm calling you i don't know i can't tell i can't tell you're saying the estate is the estate is still open why is it still open um well he had one main business and about 12 other small little businesses and um the main business is taken care of and i am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones closing some of them and some of them are ongoing concerns okay

37:17I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother is really what it comes down to because it's not a math thing and it's not a bad thing to do. So let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say, okay, we're going to put the other$500 in. Mom, it's what Dad would want, and it doesn't affect you, and I feel like we need to do this, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then what's her reaction? Oh, I think she'd be unhappy, but I think she would also forget about it. Yeah. Okay. And then the other way is, obviously, you could play it out and say, I'm not going to do it because mom doesn't want to do it.

37:53And you let the other people know. And, you know, they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives. Right. Well, is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity? Yeah. I mean, in this case, I would just I would put it on your dad. I would just say, Mom, I really feel like Dad told me to take care of this, and it doesn't affect you. You're okay. You won't even know, Mom. It's not. Not because, I mean, just because of the math. We could pay 10 times this, and you would still never know it. So it's pretty much like buying a biscuit, Mom. I mean, you can afford a biscuit, and we're going to give this lady a biscuit because that's what Dad wanted to do.

38:37And you're going to be okay. And it's not going to be much longer probably either, right? I'm doing this for dad, okay? And you would do it for dad. If he was here, it's what would have happened, Mom. And you'd still been okay then, okay? And so I don't know if you're going to get her to be generous on this. Like you said, and then she's going to forget it. So, yeah. I think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently, kindly, and we're not going to have an argument about this. It's just a fact. I'm doing this because this is what dad would have done if dad was here he would have done it and you would have been okay I'm here I'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done and you're going to be okay mom I'm going to make sure you're okay mom this is not going to affect you at all mom I promise you've got plenty of money you're going to be okay and it's doing a good thing for for somebody and somebody's going to be okay and I I think you just do it I'm I it took me a meant to get there.

39:36I'm trying to figure out what your moral obligation is, but it's really a relational thing. Yeah. And from the generosity point, it's hard to teach someone generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it. You know, the spirit of generosity is finding something that they love, they're passionate about and they get to plug into and it's fun for them, right? Like that's part of learning the general. So trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this, I don't think is the way to go either. I'm going to make you give your money away. That's not generosity. Yeah. You're right. That's a good point.

40:05Oh, my goodness. It's a good question, Amanda, though. That's hard. That's very hard. And when the lines are blurred, are you the executor of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's family? Well, the estate's still open and she's still paying the bills from the estate. I know. So really, mom doesn't get a vote. Yeah. Yeah. Technically speaking. So she is the executor and she's in good shape to make that decision. You can ask your attorney to be sure. Neither one of us are attorneys, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you. And morally and ethically, that's where you stand for sure.

40:36One more time, folks. We're coming up on the Christmas season, the New Year's season. It's when people take stock of things. This is when you jump on ZanderInsurance.com. Make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place. This is when you go to MamaBearLegalForums.com and get your will in place. and this is when you write out stuff like this i have a very detailed estate plan and about this time last year your mother said but what would i do with all that collection of so-and-so because it's just it's just a collection of so-and-so right like your stuff like my guns okay what are you gonna do well i don't need all them guns yeah and what am i gonna do with all your skis yeah all your water skis too yeah well there's important things important things so she's like i'll just i'll just give them away and i'm like you can do whatever you want she said well i would like some instructions from you and that's fair so i wrote out here's what you do with this collection yeah and here's how you distribute it and here's who you call to get to get rid of it yeah and so on and you know make sure the kids kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that and then they're in the rest of it you know you can just get rid of and that's fine yeah yeah but it's just she wanted the clarification and this is a minor thing that was not in the actual will that Amanda's dealing with, but it was a verbal thing three days before he passed.

41:58That's what I was going to say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes. And not on your deathbed, literally, you know, just starting to talk. I mean, it causes all this just to be the grieving process, all of it, so much smoother. Good reminder. This is The Ramsey Show.

42:39Hey guys, it's George Camel, and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get-togethers. I'm talking charcuterie boards, holiday sides, desserts, without the large price tags. You'll get fresh, high-quality food while keeping your budget off the naughty list, because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store. It's true. Families are saving up to$4 ,000 a year just by making Aldi their go-to, which means more money for stocking stuffers. So find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S.

43:13Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

43:30Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host. Kelly's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kelly. How are you? I'm good. I'm nervous, actually, if I'm being honest. That's okay. How can we help? So just a little bit of background. We're debt-free. We have money in investments, and we have money where we can contribute and give to people. And last summer we came across, or this past summer, we came across an international student who needed some help. She had lost her support. And so we have started helping her.

44:12And our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that, you know, generations can change with that. That's our dream there. But on several instances, she's been irresponsible, ungrateful, and at times kind of fudging the truth. So my question is, what are fair expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give her? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering? And we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function. Yeah. Is she here in the States, Kelly, or is she?

44:57She is. She is here. Okay. Okay. And what do you mean by fudging the truth? She's lying. Well, she's lying. But about what? What she's doing with the money or like other things in life? No. So like, for example, one of the examples is she said she had insurance and we got her into a junior college. And when she got down there, they said her insurance wasn't great and that the school had better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Well, she didn't come and say, guess what? My insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying$700 for that. That's one of the examples.

45:41Another example is that we were paying for her to take the TOEFL, the English proficiency test. And she didn't pass the first three times. It's a$300 test. And so for the fourth time, I said, listen, why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this? She said, yes, I will do it. I promise. And when we got on to cancel the membership, she hadn't done one question. And and on top of that, when we went to the take her to the test the fourth time, she didn't even bring her passport. So that was money down the drain. And so it feels like she's not studying. She's not taking it seriously.

46:23Yeah. Yeah. The effort we're putting in more effort than she is. You're wanting this more for her than she wants for herself is what it sounds like. Yes. Yeah. It does. And we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back, we've added some extra things we want her to do so that she has more skin in the game. But if we decide this isn't working for us, it feels like now we're the bad guys and she has to go back to her home. So we feel kind of stuck here, but we don't want to waste our money either. Yeah.

46:55Well, I don't do, I'll choose disappointment before I'll choose violating principles. And you would not tolerate this out of any other situation. The only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it. and guilt choosing guilt over resentment is what dr john deloney always says too yeah you're resenting her you're starting to resent her yeah yeah yeah oh for sure yeah yeah i'm just uh i'm gonna uh pick a number and i'm gonna let her know that at the end of that number that our support won't end and that gives her a little bit of an off-ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today.

47:48In other words, some severance pay, if you will. So how much have you put into this so far? We've put in about$12 ,000. Okay. Over what period of time? Six months. Okay. And so if you put in$3 ,000 more, that would give her a few months to get some. We're going to budget$3 ,000 more. And after that, our support on this is ending. We'll be cheering for you, though. Yeah, exactly. So we kept giving her excuses, basically. You know, she's fragile. She's stressed. She's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago, we sent her a written note. We expect these things to give her just one more chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can.

48:40she's got to start school again next January so we would with that we'd have to pay for housing tuition books all of those things and so we have this list and I'm inclined to say you need to do these things but if she doesn't do one perfectly do we say that's it this is your last semester I think this is her last semester okay you're not keep keep paying in for that? I haven't. There's no joy in this at all. No. It's all regret. It's I wished I had. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it. Hello. Yeah. If I knew then what I know now. Right. And so we don't we don't continue. We don't continue.

49:29How much is it? OK, is it a community college? You said, Kelly, she's in. It's a junior college. Yeah. OK. So what is this semester in housing going to cost you? It will cost$1 ,100. Okay. Total. Yeah, it's not too bad. Yeah. Over the whole semester. For the whole semester. Like I said, I would budget like$3 ,000. So we're going to cover this, and we're going to give you this amount of money, and our support is ending at that point. Sorry. Okay. No more chances. It's not a chances. This didn't work. We tried to do this, and it's not something that we're participating in anymore. I don't know. It's not a and there's not a big corrective.

50:13We're not going to make a big speech. OK, about all these things. And because it is it just is what it is. OK. And so you've you've tried to do corrective things and they didn't work. Yeah. You mentioned several of them. OK, so I'll give you an example. All right. When someone that is working here at Ramsey, we've got eleven hundred folks is not working out. they're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something, we sit down with them and say, look, this is a problem. We've got to fix this. And I'll walk with you while we fix it. But if we don't fix it, it's going to be a thing. And then we sit down again.

50:51And then we sit down again. And then we sit down again. And then we say, okay, you have 30 days. And during that time, there's a zero tolerance. You're going to be not doing this behavior anymore. Okay? And if they do it again, then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days. As soon as they do that, the next morning we sit down, and that conversation when they leave is one minute. We've already had all the conversations. That conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey. Okay. That's about it. and then we wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones, that stuff, right?

51:36But I mean, it's administrative at that point, but we're not doing a corrective, you know, if you had just done this, no, we're not doing all that. It's just your last day. It's just today's your last day. That simple. Because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days previous. You've already passed all that. You're done.

52:19You already know the power of generosity, and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what Preborn does. and you can trust them to do it well. They don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training, grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs. And here's the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing, when a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80 % of the time. And your gift of just$28 covers the cost of one ultrasound.

53:04Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through Preborn and have it placed in one of their clinics so women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to Preborn today. Even just$28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com slash Ramsey or call 855-601-2229 because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's preborn.com slash Ramsey.

53:53Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans don't just disappear, but you can take control and make them disappear. Y-Refi offers a low fixed rate refinancing that gives you hope and a clear path. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started Baby Step 3. Our 10-year-old is in dance lessons, and so far we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses, but I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the cost while making minimum payments on our debt.

54:45Our combined income is$150 ,000. We still have a credit card, but we'll cut it up when Baby Step 3 is completed. Who is correct on how to pay the expenses? Okay, well, Tucker, you're not in Baby Step 3 if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So you still have debt, so you're not on Baby Step 3. I mean, and who's technically correct? I mean, you would be. It's not an emergency. I mean, you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport, that when beginning of season start and when things are due, you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it, but you know.

55:23You know ahead of time. So it's, well, you don't know what the cost is. I mean, you may not have the exact specific number, but you should know the range and what's happening with schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when, you know, we just signed up for soccer this week for the spring, and I always know in December it's this. So it's, you know, but they, you know, kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. So, but it's not, you know, it's coming. So that's not, it's not an emergency. And making sure that you guys have the money for it too, because you guys are still on baby step two.

55:57You're still trying to pay off this debt. You're not on a baby step while you still have a credit card. You need to cut it up right now. And then you're in baby step two until you get your debts paid off. You shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except$1 ,000. and broke people don't travel with 10-year-old dance competitions and you're broke people. It's sad. It's heartbreaking. What is sad that the 10-year-old's not going to dance? No one will remember this in 10 months, especially the 10-year-old, only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10-year-old dance competition. So no, no, this is just, you just don't do this.

56:38You just don't. I mean, it's like your family is in jeopardy. You're in debt and you have no money. And we're prioritizing a 10-year-old dance competition over that. That's so screwed up. It's not even addressable. Okay, no. There could be a whole hour on youth, sports, kids, travel. I mean, it is, though. It is the emotional prioritization of it all. Even if you've got the money. Even if you've got the money, it's a different thing. But, I mean, we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey, and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the NHL. Well, I'll be tacky and say we have the money, but we choose to do rec sports and not travel.

57:18Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I said. You're not going to be in the NHL, so I'm not traveling to Atlanta to watch you play a sport that you're not going to play. So you're going to do it here. And then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff. And I'm not paying$25 ,000 so you can have a vacation with your 10-year-old buddies. No. I'm sorry. No, not doing it. Which is crazy that, again, that's such a, these days, such a controversial take. Yeah, well, that's okay. Do you know what I mean? No, no, no. Well, I mean, we're living that. So easy to stir up a controversy today.

57:49No, I know. But I'm just saying the world today, Papa Dave. Common sense is so rare. Having it is like a superpower. I'm serious, though. In this year, literally, when you talk to parents, Deloney talks about this, too. I know. And it's not a value system. I'm not saying. No. I won't say. It's just crazy. But it is this, and a lot of it is fear-based. If they're not doing it in elementary school, they're not going to make a middle school team. If they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team. And then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that's the feeling people have.

58:17That's the, I'm telling you, the amount of, the amount of feeling like if they don't get, if they don't start now, they're not, they're not going to make it. They're not going to do anything. And it's not even worried about college or professional. It really is. People are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade. And so they're starting to if you want to pay for some of this stuff, it's fine. But you need to be not broke when you're paying for it. You don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke. Don't don't don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise.

58:49No, you're broke people. Broke people don't go on cruises. That's dumb. Work your butt off, build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise. but this fake it stuff and i'm just going to walk around act like this isn't going on i mean you have debt and you have no money you're broke people so act like you're broke when you're broke and you know live like no one else and pay a price and then later you can do whatever you want to do and and if then you want to do uh 10 year old dance competitions travel then we can argue about whether that's even wise but that's a different discussion right now it's not even on the table to have the discussion.

59:33So now, and so you're actually both wrong, Tucker. You're not in baby step three. You're not in a baby step. You're still farting around with your credit card, acting like you're going to be okay. And so, you know, you're just wandering around over here and then she's over here at dance competition. So both of you, you're not ready to get out of, you're not really doing this stuff yet. You're going to have to get serious about it. Like your freaking life depends on it. Like whether this little girl goes to college, that matters. And the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero.

1:00:07Okay? There's a handful. It's like the number of kids that actually play D1 sports and have a scholarship. Almost zero as a percentage of those that graduate from high school that played sports. So, I mean, and then try leaving college and go to the NFL. Oh, yeah, there's like a 0.1 % chance of that. So let's just keep – let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. the chances of you ending up there is really close to zero so what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a three dog night song when she's 30 that's what she's really going to have from the dance competition nothing else three dog night song i just made that up but you gotta have an old you gotta have an old 70s tune in your dance competition right don't you isn't that like a requirement oh man i think dance competition should have to have an old 70s day he was just showing his age i just think i think that's possible maybe eagles i I don't know, whatever you want to do.

1:00:58Heart, I don't care. But this is what it is. Yes, yes, yes. You did cheerleading and competition cheerleading. No, I did not. No, you went to a class. I didn't do competition. You were in a little camp thing one time. Yes, I did. I did a weekly, yes, at the local. That's different than competitive. I know. But we had no illusion that you were going to end up making$10 ,000 being a Titans cheerleader. What I'm saying, though, is. What do they make? They make about$10 ,000, don't they? Let me say this. The parents today, though, I think is less about them becoming professional athletes. And it's more about this, their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school.

1:01:42Like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's a lot about. Really? Yes. OK. I mean, I'm sure there's some. It's probably the dudes and their sons that are like, he's going to play professional ball. I don't know. I guess. But at least for like most of the people I know, they still do competitive and travel. a lot of our friends do and they know their kid isn't going to make it but they do it because kind of everyone does it like if you want to play at a competitive level they all do these like crazy leagues i don't know whatever everyone does is yeah i know i'm just saying though like we like i feel like an outsider i really do like we're one of the only families that doesn't do i know i'm just so proud of saying the reality no and it's not a pat on rachel's back this is we just don't want to travel for kids sports and right now we've it's it's a never say never but for our For our 10-year-old, we're not.

1:02:26As for me and my house. As for me and my house. But it's a real thing, y 'all. It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over. You go to Texas, California. So you don't need to go on vacation and you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys? That's just not smart. And you don't need to buy a boat. Because we get so much joy at the lake. No. You're broke, people. don't do this this is how people just it's a form of denial and denial is not just a river in egypt

1:03:25Thank you.

1:03:46The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text, and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead.

1:04:20Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

1:04:47are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it well that's normal normal's broke you don't want to be normal let's be weird whatever everybody else is doing don't do it. You don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and builds you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin you'll feel like you got a raise. Hey, don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Bree is with us in Virginia.

1:05:21Hi, Bree. How are you? I'm so good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? This is so cool. So my question is, my husband lost his job last week, and I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired, of feeling sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck. But I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same gazelle intensity because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make with the debt paying off process. So how do I get him and I to have that same intensity? What kind of sacrifices does he see it for the kids? So I think it's a little more, to provide just a little context, he was a teen dad to two kids.

1:06:11We had two kids in high school. The mom's not in the picture, and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood growing up until he got full custody. then I came into the picture and I'm um their mom now and so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood and then trying to plan out you know how long ago was all that how long it's gonna take um he got full custody in 2018. Okay so seven years yeah in the rearview and how old are they now high school they're 16 and 17 so by the time we get it paid off we feel like they're going to be out of the house and it's hard to like think about saying no to them now and then they're going to be gone and we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reach the benefits of the decisions we're making now and it's just it's a lot of guilt for both of us.

1:07:04I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible and that was the last message I gave them before they left home. Yeah.

1:07:14we're gonna pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10 and so we're gonna spend like we're in congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further right as our way of saying sorry it was tough when you were eight and that's the gift we're going to give you is model this very poorly for you well that's kind of silly yeah Yeah, I mean, I mean, Brie, I think there's, I don't know, for him, I'm like, I want him, your husband, to have a level of seeing this that yeah, there may be some sacrifices, you may not be able to do the trip. But also to remember that, you know, when your kids, just because they are off in college, I know life looks different, but they also are still around.

1:08:03You know, you guys can still go and do things with them. And it's not like parenting just stops at 18. Right. I mean, it's like a relationship just ends. It continues on. And I know things look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house. But honestly, too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and time wise is with them. And you know what I mean? Like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for their future relations. Them admiring their father facing his demons and changing his ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney.

1:08:43Right. Right. Yeah. It just is. I mean, here's the thing. My friend Andy Andrews said, and I used it a lot when our kids were at home even, that we're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids that become great adults. So plug that formula into this situation. And the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying, you know what? I haven't done well with this money thing, and I'm going to start right now. And for the last couple years you're here, you're going to see me doing this right. That's the good news. The bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible.

1:09:23Can I ask, how does that look like practically? We're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or anything like that, but with Christmas, and then we have three birthdays right after. We didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays. We just didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas. Right. My stepson asked to go bowling. do we think like that's where i'm trying to wrap my head around we're like do we stay what's your household income he just lost his job friday um but he has some promise like i think he has some good things coming hopefully this week um but i mean it was like 130 okay and what do you make i'm just i'm part-time i make 20 bucks an hour i only work 25 hours a week okay so we have 130 $30 ,000 household income, give or take, when he lands the new position.

1:10:15How much debt do you guys have? How much debt are you carrying? $29 ,643. Oh, Bree. Yeah, y 'all can do this. So lay out a budget and say there's only this much entertainment. There's only this much. And we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation. But we can do a little bit of this. We can do a little bit of that. And as a family, we're going to tick off$29 ,000. We're going to do it in a year. And you guys are going to watch it happen, too. Yeah, do it in a year. Yeah. That's what I hope. That's what I'm really hoping. No, it's not. 130 minus 30 is 100. Wah. And then after taxes, you'll be living on 70 or whatever.

1:10:57Oh, well. I know, but I'm just saying. I mean, do it. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't use the excuse of my children are going to suffer because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible. right they watch everything we do they're gonna do what you do more is caught than taught they're watching you yeah absolutely so yeah that i'm more concerned about that than anything else yeah so i mean you guys do what you want to do but that that would be my motivation the great and let me say this too i mean and again i think i'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the christmas season with little kids at home but and even looking back on my childhood the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult of what we're saying, that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent, is not the birthday gifts, right?

1:11:51Like the gift you give your kids is you and the time that is spent together doing a puzzle even, right? I mean, it's like, I was being interviewed this morning. I think it's a big deal. It really is. I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the what Christmas gifts you get last year and the kid doesn't know yeah but what experience they remember every detail about the trip and I said well your sister's 40 and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8 9 10 11 12 years old but she can tell you at 8 9 10 11 years old a hundred percent of those Christmases at midnight we were in church lighting candles on Christmas Eve and the kids are asleep in my lap and she can give you that memory and paint it so clearly in HD for 30 years later.

1:12:40I remember mom spilling wax on a lady's coat in front of us one year when I was probably six or seven. Yeah, the candle dripped on a mid coat in front of us. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, you do. It's things like that that you remember and that shape who you are. But we don't know what we got for Christmas that year. No. So it's not to say don't buy something for Christmas. No, no. It's just out of control. But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of whack that if we don't do this or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost nothing is the thing that's going to shape and mold you.

1:13:13And it's the Tuesday nights at home and having a family dinner. Like those are the things that create good, healthy adults. It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes, absolutely. Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are. It's having a dad who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational. Like those, like literally that is what shapes you as an adult, as a parent. And I think we get so wrapped up in all this buying crap that I'm like, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

1:13:45But it does help me. It always helped me to reframe it to say, I'm not trying to raise great kids. I'm trying to raise kids that are great adults. It changes the discussion. Who are resilient during hard times. And maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want. But that's resilience. They heard the word no? What? We can't say that. That's illegal. Y 'all are doing great, Bri, though. To your points, yes, you are starting. If you guys do this, you're changing the trajectory not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house, too. So, yeah, we're cheering you guys on for sure.

1:14:35If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old-fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front.

1:15:20Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55 ,000 people across the nation settle over$600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to GuardianLIT.com slash Ramsey. That's GuardianLIT.com slash Ramsey. Paid endorsement, attorney advertising, Guardian Litigation Group, LLP. Not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review our website terms for more information.

1:16:12David is in Indianapolis. Hi, David. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Long story short, I just checked my statements from my financial advisor last month. It's been the first time in a couple months. Anyway, looking at him, it only looks like I've seen about 7 % growth this year. And I was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else. What does he have you invested in? Do you know? It's supposed to be aggressive growth. supposedly as far as the individual funds i'm not 100 sure on yeah i just figured this out i just figured this out on friday have you contacted them and asked any questions i haven't i did contact i did not ask about the retirement i did contact them to figure out why this is another issue uh my deposits i made into my money market account were not being actually used, and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either.

1:17:17Oh, gosh. You had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest, and he's not done that. Correct. There's a couple things wrong with the equation. All right. You probably should fire him, but not for the reasons that you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return, and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not to babysit you. Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then if you don't like the returns, it's due to your choices.

1:17:55But you don't even know what's going on. You just toss the money over the fence and hope he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything. So I guess my next question would be, is that something that you would is that something you know so i i paid somewhat close attention to the market listen to you guys listen to other financial podcasts what kind of opened my eyes to was i seen that the s &p 500 has grown 14.5 percent something like that this year 17 yeah 17 um and you made seven so something screwed up Yeah, I agree with you. Something's screwed up. But here's my point, okay? I do not have any mutual funds with my financial advisor that I didn't choose.

1:18:44Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, here's some things you could do. Here's the historical data on this mutual fund. And it's one I might look at if I were you. And you go, yeah, I like that. And I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase based on having been informed. And then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him. And it was just a miss, okay? because you pick some funds that didn't even keep if they're aggressive growth they ought to be outperforming the s &p on uh substantially um unless there's some kind of i don't know what you pick but i mean you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else i don't know what you got into but i want you to know what you're doing and so like this is the way you hear these sports figures that lose everything like they make 10 million dollars they they then they're broke or something it's because they turn it over to some guy and go my guy's handling it and then they don't even look at it and turns out in that case the guy's a scam artist or whatever or he's a doofus one of the two i i i mean i think the guy just handed you some mutual funds half looked at them you half looked at them and y 'all chose poorly is what it sounds like so what i want him to do is to take up a new position if you're going to keep him probably wouldn't and and that to be the heart of a teacher and what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter but have the heart of a student and he should be presenting you with these ideas too right I mean you're not this is why you hire someone is to do it and to to show you and to give you options like that's what our advisor does like here here's then you know what it is what yeah yeah you know exactly what it is so I guess that's you know what's my biggest question for him I guess would be what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard, Schwaff, or whatever, and just throw it in a S &P 500.

1:20:45Yeah, you can go buy a Vanguard S &P and throw it all in there, and you made 17%. That's called passive investing. Okay, that's called passive investing. That's better than what I'm paying him to do. Yeah, well, now, what you're paying him to do is to show you mutual funds that are outperforming the S &P. and then and then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that i buy mutual funds through my investment advisor there's 8 000 mutual funds i mean i grew up in this stuff and i'm not going to comb through all that crap that drive me nuts okay i'm not that big a nerd so i call him up i'm like hey find me four funds in this category that are outpacing the s &p and because i want to put some money in that area and uh or in the case of you follow the ramsey recommendations for your 401k, put a fourth in growth, a fourth in aggressive growth, a fourth in a foreign fund or an international fund, and a fourth in growth and income.

1:21:41We put a fourth in each in my retirement, and I want all three of those to, over a 10-year period of time or longer, to have an outperformed the S &P. And they're hard to find, but you can find them. They've got the software to pull that up, and they pull up three or four, and we look at them together. We go, okay, which ones of these do we think we talk about it together and then we make the choice together i'm not paying him to be a stock picker okay i'm paying him to help me manage my money yeah and also a great financial advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments they're looking over your entire financial portfolio they're looking at your house taxes the give i mean like they're able to look at everything and i think for that's where i see the benefit is having everything in one place now yeah is the vanguard option there absolutely but i would even bring that to a financial advisor say i have this over here with me put that in my portfolio so i can look at the whole picture right so i don't know that's ours has helped us you know do things that i'm like oh well that's creative i didn't think to do go here and here and they know about you know whether it's you know again those are ways to invest and it's it's great they don't they didn't call you up and tell you they did it no they call you up and say here's an idea you all understand the idea and then do we implement the idea but there is a whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's a tax move or whatever it is but david a lot of look for people to manage your money you manage your money with the help of an advisor and yes you can outperform the market if you do that okay can i tell you though there's a lot of that of what david just said moving right now in people aren't wanting financial advisors they're just wanting to go and invest themselves opening a Vanguard.

1:23:25That's what a lot of people are feeling. Well, the S &P 500, the Bogleheads have been around forever. OK, that's not that's not new. No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not the traditional. Hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial advisor to get me in the space. You don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space. That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying, though, is that it's more I'm hearing more and more people. People that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the when the when trump burps and the market goes down they stay in and the people that stay in are the ones that make money and they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual they're learning your your your smart investor pro on ramsey solutions.com has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in Ramsey trusted.

1:24:16We won't put him in there or her in there. Okay. And so, and you know, and most of them make a percentage of the, um, of the amount under management is what they get usually 1 % or so that's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1 % the market. Otherwise they're not worth their money. So to speak. So, uh, yeah, you, you know, You get in that. But, yeah, but you can. Bogle started Vanguard, and they're called Bogleheads. And his premise was correct. He was a genius. It was that the S &P 500 outperforms more than half of the mutual funds. So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S &P 500 index, was his point.

1:25:05And that's why he started a no commission, no load S &P 500 at Vanguard. And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, I'm not going to think about this. I'm just going to dump it into S &P 500. And I'll at least make what the stock market makes. And I'll outperform more than 50 % of the mutual funds by doing that. Those are called bogleheads. And they're not new just because TikTok came along. No, I'm not saying they're new. I'm just saying I'm hearing it more and more. People have the access to it. I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that and go pay a commission to outperform Vogelheads.

1:25:48And Dave Ramsey's not a crook. I'm a genius. Yes, you are.

1:26:18Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. There's a lot of discussion in America today about the 20-somethings, the Gen Zers, and the millennials having an affordability crisis. A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general. Life is too expensive. We don't make enough. Capitalism is failing us and whatever.

1:26:51And there is a serious pinch on these two generations, but it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks and the car companies and the U.S. Congress have conspired to screw them.

1:27:13We have record credit card debt. The most ever. What's in your wallet, says the actor on the commercial. over and over and over and over again. They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card, I can prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous. They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score that they are somehow winning when 100 % of the mathematical items in the algorithm for the FICO score are debt-related. You can inherit a million dollars and your FICO score doesn't change a point. Your boss could give you a million dollar a year raise in your salary and your FICO score doesn't change a point.

1:28:16It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by Citibank. And Fifth Third, and these large banks, and Ford Motor Company, and General Motors Credit, and Chrysler Credit, and Lexus Credit. Need I go on with all the credits? 20 % of the borrowers that left the car lot last month left with a car payment over$1 ,000 a month. When you have a$1 ,000 a month car payment or three, and you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do by these villains, you have affordability issues. Add to that, we've got 18-year-olds that are loaned$100 ,000, and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by the U.S.

1:29:16government. What bank won't make this loan? Because they're 100 % guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan. And so, of course, they're going to want to loan this money. So they loan$100 ,000 to an 18-year-old who can't buy beer. And they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school. this is combined to create a two generations that are completely handcuffed by these mega banks the u.s congress and these car companies and there's where your affordability crisis is coming from yes if you're in gen z you're feeling a pinch but you also signed up for it darling and these companies are screwing you and i think you ought to say enough is enough if you want to get pissed off at something it's not capitalism it's that you got screwed by the mega banks and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction and making so much money yeah news Newsweek.

1:30:31Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit, but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. Bank-initiated credit limit increases. Four and five credit limit increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a notice that says, oh, we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't have a$5 ,000 limit, you have an$8 ,000 limit. You weren't even up to$5 ,000. You weren't limited, but you now think, that you can spend this, and so you go and spend again.

1:31:04Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit. Revolving balances rise by around 30 % following these limit increases, indicating that algorithmic decision-making has become a major but largely hidden driver of household debt. Affordability issues. And evidence shows that borrowers, they're altering their spending with changes in their credit limit, even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. So it's the mental game we talk about to say that, okay, you know, that I'll spend as much with a credit card than a debit card proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, you will spend it.

1:31:45They're altering their spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks. And then some moron on TikTok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying, oh, socialism is the answer, when the problem is not socialism or capitalism. The problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them. Well, we at Ramsey are standing up for you. We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it because we love you and we want you to get out of debt. So stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off.

1:32:21Of course you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a glittering little smile, and Bradley Cooper is camping out in the lobby. I couldn't give a crap less. It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet, this thing called debt. These people's job is to screw you. And if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're going to have affordability issues, honey, because you're going to be what we call broke people. So stand up and say, I've had it. I'm not we're not going to take it anymore.

1:33:05Play the old rock song. Right. We're not going to take it anymore. And, you know, I've had it. I'm not living like this and I'm not going to play these people's games. If you want to be pissed off at something, don't be pissed off at capitalism. Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you. And it wasn't capitalism. It was a bank and a car company and a system that redefines success improperly for you. This is not success. You are not successful when you have a high FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest.

1:33:42That's all a FICO score. Say, I have an 800 FICO score. And when someone tells me that, I always say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No, thank you. Don't do that. I'm so sorry. So if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues, they can buy a house when they don't have$1 ,200 car payments and$150 ,000 student loan debt on a degree in left-handed puppetry because they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable.

1:34:27Oh, and your FICO score is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed. When you get that right, you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed, boys and girls.

1:34:54So

1:35:04buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:35:47Tony is in Tallahassee. Hi, Tony. How are you? All right. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, my question is, I got a bunch of sterling silver I've been saving up. I started back in 2015, 2017. And I was wondering if I should sell it and turn around and reinvest it in silver coins instead of the sterling. Okay. Well, I don't buy precious metals as an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. So since I don't do it, I don't advise other people to do it. And my reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks. Well, I've already made like a 66 % increase on what I've already purchased.

1:36:39Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the stock, when the sale was about$15,$20 an ounce. and I've already got 66 % return on my investment already. But I want to get rid of the sterling and invest that in the silver coins. In 2015, you said, right? Yes, sir. Okay. It was about$16 an ounce, and I'm looking at a chart, right? Right. And it hovered at$16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of the return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline. It's a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver.

1:37:29No, no. That's why I'm concerned if I should just sit on it and watch the stock market if it crashes. I would sell it, and I would not be invested in silver. I mean, if you like silver, I would just challenge you, go back and look at the 50-year chart on it. It's basically flat with a couple of spikes, and one of them is in the last two years. It's an unusual spike. But, I mean, over the last 50 years, it just kind of does nothing. And then all of a sudden, there's two places, 2008 and now that there's a spike in the chart, and that's it. Versus, if you follow the stock market chart, a good S &P 500 as an example, We were talking about that earlier.

1:38:09Through that same period of time, it's a steady increase. So, you know, 23 and 24 were like 20 plus percent on the S &P. The S &P to date in 25 is 17. And so there's three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick in that. And so in a shorter period of time than you got 66. And I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time that you made 66 on the silver. And so I think your number's right, by the way. I'm not saying I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an anomaly within the space, and I don't buy things based on anomalies.

1:38:53I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, when we see the chart go like steadily up, up, up, up, up. up yeah and this chart was silver on your computer it is it's all over the map flat and a little spike and then flat and then a little spike and that's it and so i i'm you know i don't buy stuff so sell it now tony sell it all get out of it and you'll make the most you probably will make yeah if you wait it's going to drop and when you and you're going to lose the money that you made or that you haven't made because you're insulted but there you go caroline's in austin texas hey caroline what's up?

1:39:28Hi. So I'm a millennial and I was one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of like go to school and take out like whatever loans to get the dream job. I did it. I got the dream job. Now I'm 35, including our house, our remaining school loans, and the final items on our list where our debt's listed smallest to largest. My husband and I now, our remaining debt is we have, including the house, our school loans, his car, and a business credit card from when he ran his business, we have about$260 ,000 in debt. How much of that is your mortgage? Our mortgage, we owe$122 ,000 on our house. Okay, so you have$140 ,000 in miscellaneous debt.

1:40:15How much of that is student loans? I owe$93 ,000 and my husband owes$22 ,000. So$110 of the$140. So the car and the credit cards and all that are about$30. Yes. The vehicle is$9 ,000. And your household income is what? I make$85 ,000 a year, and my husband now makes$130 ,000 a year. We just established this income. Phenomenal. I was a breadwinner during the pandemic. We've been working the Baby Steps since 2018. Pre-pandemic, I was rolling like an extra thousand towards my student loans. How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here? So I went to school for 10 years. No, you said in 2018 you started the Baby Steps.

1:41:08I ask how much you've been paid off since 2018. I paid off$40 ,000 in my school loans. So you've been working them very hard. um so my husband lost his job and then we had two babies oh during the pandemic all right so you really but you really made almost no progress on your baby steps is bottom line okay all right um we we listed our smallest to largest debt we paid off six of the we have 11 items on the list we paid off six so the remaining items are my husband's car the credit card for my husband's business. I got it. And then the student loans in the house. So I received an inheritance of about $600 ,000 an asset.

1:41:50Whoa! Yes, praise God. Yeah, awesomeness. So$234 ,000 is cash, and that's in a savings account. $100 ,000 is in Exxon stock, and then the other remaining asset of that$600 ,000 is farmland that's valued at$250 ,000. So you could sell everything but the farmland and be dead free. Yes. Do it. So my kids are two and three. Wait a minute. Stop. Stop. I don't want to hear any more stories. Why would you not do that? So I'm trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So I want to go. Is it dumb to just try to pay off? If you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid-for house and paid-for farmland and zero debt, you wouldn't have a master.

1:42:46Mortgage. You wouldn't have any debt. No mortgage, no nothing. Your husband makes what? Yeah. $130. $130. And you want to quit and come home and live on$130? Sure, you could do that. And then our savings would be nothing. Wouldn't that be unwise? Your savings would be nothing? You'd have the farmland. No, it's not unwise. You have$130 ,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest now and start investing. Okay. Okay. How old are you? You said you're 35. I'm 35, and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38. So that would get me a pension. Have at it. Take a calculator and pull it up.

1:43:26Pull it up at RamseySolutions.com, okay? Pull up our retirement calculator and put in these numbers, okay? 15 % of$130 ,000 for 30 years. Okay. And that's going to be about$17 ,000, about$1 ,500 a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you save 15 % of your income. Okay. When you put that in for 35 years, you're going to see$5 million or$6 million. Okay. And we'd own our house and we'd have no debt. All that time you'd have no debt. And we'd retire with$6 million. Yeah, all that time you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up, the family land, and your house is going up, and you're going to go back to work, and he's going to get raises, so you're going to end up with$10 million.

1:44:09Oh, my gosh. Okay, thanks. This is exactly what I needed. Yeah, you've got to do it. I wanted to pay off the debt. Okay, cool. You've got to do it. I was worried. But you've got to do the whole thing, okay? You can't just go, oh, well, something happened. No, no, no, no, no, nothing happened. We're putting this money aside. side and caroline you know it's been eight years of you guys working this plan like you and there's car loans in here and all of it right like you you guys stop it yeah you guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debt-free route we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives if we get ready to buy a car we have to save up and pay for it yeah if we're going on vacation we have to save up and pay for it or we can't go absolutely i've owned my car since 2015 but your husband hadn't yeah and you're and you're married to him so you haven't owned your car you haven't own his car.

1:44:54Quit doing that stuff, okay? It's exciting though, Caroline. You guys can do this. This is awesome. You're in great shape, but you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers I'm talking about.

1:45:37Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80 % behavior and 20 % head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre-order now for$24.99 and you'll get over$100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:46:21Christmas is almost here. Our deals are still going strong, though. Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer, and it's not much time to ship stuff. We've got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz, sitting to my right, has three kids' books, one on gratitude, great books, one on gratitude, one on generosity, one on contentment. They're on sale right now. They're incredible. The illustrations, the stories are amazing. $13 each. If you're shopping for everyone else, our deals are still going.

1:46:51$13 for best-selling hardcover books at Ramsey. All of our stuff just about are there. $13 career assessments,$12 for questions for humans cards, and$7.99 for audiobooks and e-books. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey, guys, what's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. We're so excited to be here. We're glad to have you. I see on my screen you guys are baby steps millionaires. Tell us what your net worth is. So, Dave, it is about$2 ,326 ,000. Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How's that$2 million broken out? Yes, so about$950 ,000 is the home, which we bought 12 years ago for$375 ,000.

1:47:39So we're blessed with that. Retirement, a little bit about$1 ,000 ,003. An emergency fund,$98 ,000 for the college. We have done for the kids about$175 ,000. We have two of them. They're 13 and 12. And in cars, we have three vehicles. They all pay for about$70 ,000, the three of them combined. And how much of this did you all inherit? Zero. Zero. Zero. I like it. Okay. And your age is right now. How old are you? I'm 44. And I'm 47. Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers? I have an MBA. And I'm in sales. And you're what, Eugene? I'm in sales. Sales, okay. And what was your career, Carol, with your MBA?

1:48:38I worked in marketing. I worked in marketing, director of marketing for a long time. And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year? About$200 ,000. Okay. And what's the worst year you had as a couple? Income? Probably in the beginning when we first started, we were each making about$30 ,000 a year. Okay. So$60 ,000 to$200 ,000 was the range. You're$44 ,000 and$47 ,000. You have$2.3 million. You did not inherit any of it. What was your GPA in college? mine was 3.8 and eugene a 3.2 okay all right smart but not geniuses i like it very good no not at all what do you what do you drive eugene so i have well after becoming millionaires um i bought for my wife a brand new van toyota sienna that she wanted it we upgraded her eight year old Zienna.

1:49:35And I just got a, you're going to love this, Rachel, a Model Y, a Tesla. Oh, Eugene, I knew I liked you. I knew I liked you. And the minivan. Y 'all are like our family. You're running an eight year old minivan, right? No, you're running a brand new one. We have bought pre-owned when we're doing the baby steps. Oh, you bought the van eight years ago. Yeah, when they forgot the first main one. one yeah we so dave when we started the baby steps we downgraded i had a really leather seat interior minivan and we went down the cloth seats because we had to get on the plan and so after we became debt free eugene's like okay we're gonna go buy you your dream car which is a van yes with leather seats and all the bells and whistles i get it okay so you're in miami and i hear an accent What is your heritage?

1:50:25We are from Columbia. Yeah, our parents are from Columbia. Carol was actually born here in New Jersey. Beautiful family. We see the picture right now. But I came from Columbia when I was 19 years old. Okay. With two rolling bags and$90 in my pocket. Wow. You know, we've been blessed. Amazing. Yeah, you've worked your tails off. The American dream is what you've experienced. Yes. It's incredible. Congratulations. Congratulations. I'm so proud of y 'all. Way to go, guys. Well, I got to ask you, and I know the answer, but I got to ask you, can it still be done today? Absolutely, it can still be done.

1:51:03You know, sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self? And so it's, you know, this is built on consistency, not on income. You got to get on financial peace, get on a written budget. You know, you have to really drink the Kool-Aid. We teach at CU and we tell people you cannot do this-ish. You can't do this ish. You have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done. You sometimes ask people, how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly, guys, it doesn't feel like we're millionaires. Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't - You're driving an eight-year-old Toyota.

1:51:43And we're still in a budget. Even when we're two kids, they have their own folder in the EveryDollar app. Yes. Yes. We go to$6 movies on Tuesdays. Our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the Jeep side, that when are we going to go to the other side? So, yeah, it's been such an adventure. We are so honored, so honored to talk to you. And Dave, you changed our life in 2016, and God put you on our path, and we thought that it was possible, and we had a dream. And Proverbs says the fools are headstrong and they do what they like, and wise people take advice. And so we took their advice.

1:52:27Wow. Well, we're honored to be a part of your story. You're definitely the hero in the story. Very, very well done. All the way from nothing, from$90 in your pocket and two roller bags to$2.3 million net worth, paid for house, retirement's full of$1 million, no inheritance. They did not inherit their money. So all you people that think that that's what happens, it's not what happens. What happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. And sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. That's what happens. Yeah, you guys are amazing. I'm so, so proud of you.

1:53:07Hey, thanks for sharing your story with us, okay? Thank you, guys. It's such an honor. Well done, you guys. Very cool. I have decided, we've been interviewing these Baby Steps millionaires for years now. And I started asking about, I don't know, two years ago when I'm talking to them, what car they're driving. The number of them that have a Toyota of some kind, not a Hyundai and not a Honda, a Toyota of some kind. I don't know what it is about Toyota. They're great cars. They are good cars, but it's just very interesting. It's not a used Lexus. Right. It's a Toyota. Yep. Yep. You know, and it's just over and over and over again.

1:53:50I hear Toyota. I hear Toyota. I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. Okay. That doesn't usually come up, but yeah. Why am I blanking on my van? Oh, the Odyssey. I was like, why am I blanking on my van? The Toyota van. It's amazing. Oh. No, no. It's a Honda. Oh, mine's a Honda. Never mind. Yours is a Honda. Yeah. Okay. I don't know, of course. It's still a minivan, a very nice minivan. That's right. The Toyota Sienna. That's it. Oh, and that's what they had. The Sienna. They had the Sienna. But they have a Toyota. I hear you. I hear you. They don't match you exactly. They have a minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan.

1:54:24That's fair. That's fair. Sorry. Very cool. I don't know why I loved the Toyota idea. I just run into a lot. And the other thing is I find that millionaires forgot to upgrade their cars. This one's not too bad, so I didn't. But oftentimes I'm saying, hey, dude, go buy your wife a car. Really, I mean, a 93 Camry and you're worth$4 million. Come on, dude. time to upgrade the car pay cash for it but it's time to upgrade it come on man come on man and so the number of times i'm telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their wife's car they forgot they just they didn't care will you ever have a self-driving car any part of you at all a tesla like would you ever i hardly ever say never on anything mechanical i mean i i i cannot visualize having a car that i have to plug in the wall i can't get my head around it and I can't visualize not having the thrill of driving.

1:55:17I love driving a really good car and I, you know, and especially a nice curvy Tennessee mountain road, right? It's a lot of fun. You think you're going to die if you're in the passenger seat. But yeah, and I'm, but I, no, I think, you know, what is it? Phoenix has got all of the, the Wegos or whatever they're called now. What are they called? The, the self-drivers. Yeah. Oh, the, the like, yes, it's like, it's close okay yeah like henry cloud sent me a picture of riding and no no that's weird that that's pretty crazy yeah

1:56:18It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. Every dollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget, thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever.

1:56:59So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today. Thank you.

1:57:21Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you've not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? Luke 16, 10 and 11. Nelson Mandela said money won't create success. The freedom to make it will. Courtney is with us in Tampa. Hi, Courtney. Merry Christmas. Yes. Hi. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? I took Financial Peace University earlier this year, and I'm in baby step two with about 33 ,000 of remaining credit card debt. Good for you. I'm wanting to live, thank you, in baby step seven.

1:58:06So how do I handle wanting to live generously, especially with, you know, the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I think part of it is like I have cash in my pocket now, and I want to, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside 7-Eleven or something. But how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so but still have my own debt to tackle? Well, you know, baby step two is we're living on a detailed type budget. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. And any money we can squeeze out of anything, extra work or underspending or anything, we throw at the smallest debt, which would not mean there's cash in your pocket.

1:58:52Understood. So that means it's going on the smallest debt. Now, it's a really good question, though. You've got a great heart. And I will tell you that over the years of doing this, that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming outrageously generous do some of the best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away not just pocket change, but serious money and help somebody in a serious way. Uh, that motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that, uh, it will lead you out of debt, a higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than, than something that you wanted selfishly.

1:59:34So you're, you're an incredible lady. I predict big things for you. What Sharon and I did when we were at this stage, um, cause we had the same heart. We desperately wanted to be generous and had no money because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was we just did acts of service. And you tithed. And so we tithed. We give a tenth of our income. That's a baseline. But above that, we didn't walk around and, you know, we didn't. But maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a$50 ,000 gift, but we could go serve soup. And maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband, you know, a$10 ,000 gift to help her with anything.

2:00:20but we could cut her grass and clean out her gutters, and we did. And make her dinner or watch the kids while she goes out or something. You can make dinner. Dinner doesn't cost much anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids, like Rachel said. There's all kinds of acts of service that you can do, and honestly it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your heart that giving monetary gifts does. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, generous people are the ones that hold the door for you at the supermarket. Yes. And I do love your heart in it, Courtney. And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is that if I make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to give more, obviously, than now.

2:01:08But even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy versus if you were debt free and you were on a plan and giving was one of those motivators for a priority for you where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives. You're going to have the means to be able to do that and even make a bigger impact for somebody. Right. I mean, to go into that single mom and pay her lights for a year, you know, you'll be able to write a check and just do that. But you can't do that right now. Right. And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give.

2:01:42So there's something about being debt free that frees up your income, not just obviously for yourselves, but for other people of what you're saying. So you get to do even more impact when you are debt free. You guys always hear us say live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than anyone else because you paid a price to get there. And the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is, no discipline seems pleasant at the time. And listen to this from a generosity perspective. But it yields a harvest of righteousness.

2:02:21What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what's more holy than generosity? Not many things. And so you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed. he installed the whole thing but the part of him that's most the part of your heart that's most like god when you're giving he gave his only son we're celebrating the season right i mean that's his example he was serving constantly to people and so yeah there's there is that element that is yeah that's interesting jesus never gave money i don't think he made any i know i guess he did as a carpenter i guess i guess yeah he did he had a job yeah he i think he pulled i I think he pulled, or Peter, somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth, right?

2:03:06But give to Caesar what is Caesar's. But I don't think there's, I never thought about it. There's never, it's definitely not a prevalent Bible story of Jesus giving money. But he did give acts of service. Yes. Healing on the Sabbath. Yes. I mean, you know, on and on, right? Washing the disciples' feet. I mean, his life was service to people. Exactly. And that's the ultimate of generosity. Very good. Courtney, you're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boise. Hi, Brett. What's up? Hi. My question today is me and my wife are about$160 ,000 in debt right now. Good Lord. $135 ,000 of that is student loan debt on her side.

2:03:48And then$24 ,000 of that is car debt. What's her degree in, Brett? Her degree is a Bachelor's of Science, and then she has a certificate in business. Bachelor's of Science in what?

2:04:03What did she study? She has an emphasis on biology, I suppose. Oh, okay. So my question was... What does she do? Oh, she works at St. Luke's Hospital right now. What does she make? She makes about like 17 an hour. Yeah. Okay. And what do you make? I actually just got back from deployment. I made about$70 ,000 this last 10 months. But I'm going back to school right now to get an A &P certificate. So y 'all are broke. Yeah. Thanks for your service. But, dude, you need some income in that house. Yeah. That's what we plan on doing. I mean, this next two years when I go to school, I'm looking at A &P jobs.

2:04:56I mean, I should be making around$30 to$40 an hour. Yeah, why aren't you working while you're in school? I am working while I'm in school. I literally just got back, so I'm still looking for jobs right now. The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay, so you're off deployment, but you're not out of the service. No, I'm in the National Guard, so. Oh, okay. I got it, okay. Well, we want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree, which she will be paying her pocket. Because she can't find a job right now. She wants to get into dietetics, and she just can't find anything, and she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her a job.

2:05:39Nah. How old are you guys? I'm 25, and she's 23. Yeah. Yeah, a master's degree doesn't solve it. No, no, you've got other issues going on. So, you know, I think there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with the biology degree that was a lot better than$17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made$17 an hour without a degree. Breathing, you can make$17 an hour. So, yeah. So, no, I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear through these loans as fast as possible. You've got to mess on your hands. And going deeper into debt. You bought a car you can't afford for sure.

2:06:25Good Lord. And going more into debt to go get a master's degree, to be a dietician, no thank you. Nope, nope, nope. Look at what the incomes are. Nope. I think you've got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for it and then save up and get these debts cleaned up. Y 'all got to mess on your hands, brother. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.