My Husband Has Always Kept Our Finances A Secret From Me (I Want Out)

25:41This just doesn't seem on the evidence that you've given me like this is a really solid decision. And I don't think you think it's solid either. And that's why you called. So I would not do it for those reasons. It's an old dilapidated house. It's going to have way more problems than you've just identified. you're moving into this house only because you think you can't get an apartment and what you've done is you've narrowed your choices falsely to this and yet your gut and your brain and heart are going this is probably not a good idea why don't you call two strangers and get their take that's that's where i'm at so that all tells strangers oh we're friends yes steve i'm not your friend i'm not steve's friend the point stands i appreciate the respect that you called this, but we're completely objective.

26:26And I'm telling you, it's screaming bad decision. I would rather see you say, yes, I have three homes I've been looking at. And out of the three, this is probably the best deal, maybe more work and all of it. But I have multiple options. Or I have an apartment that I, you know what I'm saying? Like whenever there's only a one solution to a problem, that's usually when people make bad financial decisions. I'm not saying specifically this is a bad decision, but all the circumstances around it give us some red flags from what we've seen. And again, you said it's not urgent, but you're like, I need to leave this relationship, but I can't live in an apartment.

27:02So it does feel like you say it's not, but it does feel like it's become the only solution right now for you. Is that true? Absolutely. Yeah. So that's what we don't like. Like I'd rather you again, have option A, B and C, and you may hate B and C, But at least there's other ways out that you can figure out that, you know, it's not just the one. So I would run the numbers. Usually homes like this, as you probably know, Steve, you're a smart guy. Like it's, you know, it's always more expensive than what you think. There's always more issues than what you think. And if you choose to walk into that, which a lot of people do because they just they'll have the fixer upper and that's what they know when they're comfortable with it.

27:41That's fine. Right. And if you have the money for it and that's what you want to do, it's just all the data points around it. give us hesitation and pause. Yeah, so I would call on a few more apartments, Steve, honestly. Like we did that a few years ago. I mean, it's here in Nashville. It's not in Hartford, Connecticut. And there were like, I don't know, 15 apartment complexes that were called. And I think, I don't know, maybe five of them said no. But more than half said yes, that you don't have to have credit. So if you have first month's rent, last month's rent, all of it. Like you're going to be able to find a place.

28:12This house is not the only option. Those policies are designed, obviously, to be a filter for people that have made bad financial decisions because they don't want to rent a place to somebody who's not going to pay. But you have a very different narrative, I'm sure, and you can prove it. So you've got to go sit down and prove it to somebody and go, let me tell you why I've got this score, which flagged me. I think that's far more doable than you think. But again, if I was coming out of a toxic relationship, Rachel, and I loved your advice, I just want to go land somewhere for a bit. And I want to be flexible as I possibly can.

28:44Yeah, a home purchase you do not want to rush into. And certainly not an old... And justify it. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, it's going to be fine. It's going to be, you know. But at the end of the day, you're like, is it though? Like, is it really the best option right now? Yeah. And here's what I know about really old houses. Because I have a friend, you and I have a mutual friend, I will not say their name. And they have a very, very nice old house in this area. It's almost like a landmark. And I swear to you, every time I talk to him, he gripes about all the things he's doing to that daggum house.

29:10Yeah, it's a lot. So my point is it's more than the porch and the roof, and it's just a mess. Electrical, it is, yikes. So that's why we're staying away from it. Let's go to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona. Andrew, how can we help? Hey, my friends. Appreciate you taking the call. My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the end of October of last year because we're getting out of debt. We had the$1 ,000 in the emergency savings, but we blew through that in about two days. and so my question is we've we had great friends who stepped in and helped us and um everybody listening who knows type one knows that it's not the same as type two so type one's a little bit more involved yeah and um one of my best friend's daughter just was that so it's a lot yeah it's still it's a lot there's a lot and um she's we've recovered from that initial we've we've been able to put two thousand back in the bank my wife started about seven sinking funds just to kind of get our money in order.

30:10But my question is, because of this, should we put more into the savings? I'm sorry. It's okay. It's still a lot. Four months later. Totally understand. She's 11 years old. Honestly, we have four kids of the four. We're glad it was her because she's like, I'm an independent woman. I will handle this. This is my responsibility. Real quick. Yeah, I know. No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is we're going to hold you over so that you can get a chance to gather yourself. This is heavy stuff, man. So no apologies. I got three kiddos. We get it. Rachel's got three. It's a lot. One of my best friends, because we're heading into break, but her daughter, it was last December.

30:57It was horrible. Horrible. And it's been a full year. And it is so much, Andrew. It is a lot. So the scariness and the tears and fear, that is real. But from the financial perspective, hold on the line because we're going to get back. Yes, we're coming back to you. To talk through how you guys can get an order financially as you're in Baby Step 2.

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33:12All right, so we're going to get back to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona. Dad, whose heart is really, really heavy. 11-year-old daughter, diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. And so we're going to dive into the money question that we've got here. So, Andrew, coming back to you. Hope you had a chance to catch your breath. You're such a good dad. Let's walk through your money question for us. So basically, we're taught to have the thousand in the bank while you're getting out of debt. But because of her illness, we have good Samaritan health insurance, so we're self-paid. But Dave now put my daughter as it's a terminal illness.

33:51And so we only have health insurance for this situation for, I think, another 30 days. and then they won't really cover any of her medication because of the type of plan that we have. And so we're looking at other health insurance options. And so I'm not really worried about that. I'm worried about in the event that she has an emergency and I have to take her to the hospital or I have to go see a specialist and there's money that's demanded up front on top of a house issue or something like that happening. And believe me, when she got diagnosed in that first week, my other daughter got hurt. We did have a house issue, and this is how we blew through our$1 ,000 within five days.

34:29But again, we had amazing friends who stepped in and helped us. We have been able to get$2 ,000 back into the bank. But should we put more away while we're still trying to pay off debt? Or do you guys feel like, no, that$2 ,000 is okay. Keep tackling your debt. We are cash-flowing our medication. We are cash-flowing her insulin. We are cash-flowing her Dexcom patches. We are doing that. Okay. How much do you make a month and how much is going towards medical expenses each month? I bring home after taxes and paying ties and offering, I bring home about$72. Okay. And about, you know, so then with the medical expenses, we're spending about$600 or$700 a month.

35:15Okay. So, but she, we're hoping the next few months that she will get approved to get an insulin pump. That's going to be$5 ,000. Yep. That only lasts three or four years. Yep. Plus the insulin that goes with that, obviously. Yep. So these are things that we're looking for. We don't want our kids to feel like they're being punished because of this. So we're taking care of them at the same time, you know, with the things that they're trying to do. We're not trying to take them out of what they're doing with their extra cooker activities. And we're not going further into debt with them doing their things.

35:45We're cash flowing everything. Again, I just wonder because of the type of sickness that she has. should there be more should we put more away well i think the key is to get a stable number eventually i think four months in you're probably not able to do that because you're because there's so many things in the air right now with is she going to get the you know the pump how much is insurance going to cost are we able to get more insurance new insurance like there's a lot floating around right now and because of how new this all is yes i'm good with a bigger buffer right now just to have some breathing room for you guys to make sure that she's taken care of right our families are the number one priority.

36:22Getting out of debt's amazing and we love that. But we want, we want, you know, when there's medical stuff, like we say, pause, like take care of your family, but also this is going to be an ongoing for the rest of her life, right? Like she will, she will have this. So I do want you to get to a place though, where you can say, okay, here is a regular number that we're comfortable in month to month. Let's put that in the budget. And then beyond that, we're going to go back and freaking tackle this debt. Cause how much debt do you guys have? We have a, we have two credit cards that have medical debt on.

36:54My wife had the bad COVID a couple of years and we're still paying on that. And how much is all of it? With the car and the two credit cards, we're right at 34 ,000. My wife has this on track within the next 14 months, 16 months to have that paid off. Amazing. And that's with my wife is amazing. She's figuring my wife is Yeah. Phenomenal. That's awesome. By the way, you can speed that process up at any time. It's just going to require more time of you to work, sell some things. You know, this is, you can be more aggressive on that time. Oh, I know. I know that. But at the same time, I don't want to, my family needs me present.

37:30Totally. I'm a mechanic by trade. I'm a mechanic by trade. And so I work hard. You're a good dad, Andrew. Y 'all's life just got turned upside down. Yes. And we get these calls, you know, whether it's, you know, spouses, that got diagnosed with cancer. I mean, like this is the stuff that happens in life. And this is one of the reasons why getting your finances in order is such a gift to your family. So everything that y 'all did up into this point of getting out of debt was a blessing, right? You don't have what you had before this because you guys have been paying it off, which is amazing. So yeah, I would get some stability in this.

38:05And then I think there is a point that you got to press play again on life and on this plan so that you guys don't have to stress about it, right? So again, give yourself some grace, give yourself some time, everything's okay on the money side. But I would, you and your wife sit down and just say, okay, once we get the insurance figured out, check, the insulin pump I know, that's a big deal. That's a huge check mark for them. So check that off. And then kind of just, I always like to look at the months and just say, okay, it's February. by June or July we want all of this figured out and then we're going to press play and get intense again and then by next April we're going to be debt free, you know, whatever it is so have some grace but also be still looking out there to say when can we press play back on this gazelle intensity but we want to have some stableness in her life and you guys as a family Thank you for the call Andrew, you guys are going to make it you're doing a great job All right, let's go to Sam in Lafayette, Louisiana.

39:07Sam, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. You guys have just changed my life and my wife's life for the better. So I really do appreciate y 'all taking my call. Thank you. So, you know, I understand Dave's traditional advice as it relates to student loans. So my question is a student loan question. So I'm a physician and I have a lot of kids and I've often wondered if my kids want to pursue medicine. Is it reasonable to suggest that they do take out loans for medical school, but to live small after they finish and to pay these loans off very aggressively like I did?

39:50And my reasoning for this, and something I kind of grapple with, because we're very davish about a lot of things, but I really do feel like medical training is definitely a young person's game. Plenty of sleepless nights, 80-hour work weeks, and it's very difficult for a college grad with really no skills to save what can be$200 ,000 for medical school. That's just tuition before housing and food. and in your early 20s, you're often married and starting families too. So my question is specifically for my kids. I wonder, no med school loans at all if they decide to pursue medicine or is it reasonable to say, take out loans prudently, but pay it off very aggressively?

40:34Do you know right now if Ken Coleman and I said, gosh, Sam, you're so right. We didn't even think about medical. You should get student loans. Dave and Cabo would be turning over right now. I know. We will never, ever say— I was trying to catch y 'all on the day when Dave wasn't on the studio, but— Yeah, well, I don't think you understand how our employment must work. So here's a couple of real questions. How old are the kids? Sure. Well, I have seven kids. My oldest is 11. Okay. So how much money do you make as a doctor? About$550 ,000 to$600 ,000. Okay. And what baby step are you on? uh we have no debt just paying off the house at this point okay so how much are you putting away each month for all 11 of these kids i mean excuse me uh five kids how much how much are you putting seven seven so i yeah it's a i uh i intend to you know fund their uh undergraduate education but when it comes to medical school or professional school i just have no intention of it i think that would be pretty detrimental to our overall financial health and family outlook.

41:45Okay, well, so there's the answer to your question. Like, you paying cash for it is detrimental to you, but you're willing to, because you did it, that you think they can do it. And I just think this is the wrong question. First of all, your oldest is 11. We have no idea what medical school is going to look like. Honestly, things are changing so rapidly. then why don't you invest in their med school? And this doesn't even make sense. I'm going to stop myself. Because here's the deal. You don't know what they're going to do. So you're asking a question about kids. Do you have no idea if they're going to go into medicine?

42:22Sam, you make a million dollars every two years. Save for your kid if they want to go to medical school. You're not going to ruin all of them. I was going to say that. Oh, yeah. Save for grad school. If my kids decide to not go to college, I'd be, you know, I mean, sure. I just want them to live a virtuous life. My question is not necessarily for me. It's just that broad, traditional student. Yeah, there's ways. We have talked to people that have gotten medical degrees because they've done different programs and situations. It happens. But no, we're not taking out loans. We'll never, ever say to take out student loans.

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44:24Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. Glad you're with us today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Dylan is joining us now in Lincoln, Nebraska. Dylan, how can we help? Hi. I am in$90 ,000 of student loan debt, not including a mortgage. And me and my fiance are living paycheck to paycheck. And I'm wondering how we can further our life without living like that. Is it$90 ,000 combined, Dylan, you and your girlfriend, or just yours, your debt? Just mine. She was luckily a good enough athlete to where she didn't have to pay for college.

45:11Okay. So yours is$90 ,000, and it's all student loans? Yep. Okay. And how much are you making a year? I make$55 ,000 before taxes, roughly$40 ,000 after. Okay. Okay. And how much is she making a year? She makes about 30 before taxes. Okay. What does she do for a living? She is a receptionist at a veterinarian. Okay. Yep. And what do you do? I work in low voltage. Okay. So cameras and whatnot. Okay. And you guys are engaged? Is that what you said? Yes. Great. When's the wedding? August. August. August. So exciting. Okay. So I would, I would say first and foremost, I would not combine your wedding until August.

46:07It's not that far away, but just as kind of a rule of thumb, I don't want her paying on your student loans right now until you guys are officially married. And then once you are, you guys need to be, yeah, you guys are going to combine your money and look to say, okay, if we, you know, we're, we have a, you know,$85 ,000 income before taxes household. And what does our life need to look like to live within these means? Do we need to be renting somewhere cheaper? Do we need to be taking on or finding more work? You know, she probably has the most opportunity, I would say. I mean, she's making$30 ,000.

46:45There's probably other opportunities out there for her to be. What is her field? She has a psych degree, psychology degree. Well, that's just her degree. What field does she want to be in? She likes the, well, she likes the veterinarian field, and she wants to further pursue that and go back to school for that. But at the moment, it's not in our budget. Obviously not. So what can she, what is she doing now to make$30 ,000? aunt she is just a receptionist a front desk gal at a vet clinic okay well so since being a vet and going to school and vet school is insane from everything i've heard as far as cost um let's go get a better paying job or let's go get a second job and let's tackle this debt you guys are double income about ready to be double income no kids this is the moment to get after she's a former athlete, if I heard this right.

47:39So let's set some goals in place. She knows goals. And let's look at how we increase her income from 30 to 50, okay? Whether that's through two jobs or a better primary job. She's got a psych degree. Let's just see what's out there. Like, this is the moment where you all are like all in on ideating. Let's get out there and let's make more money. Because you guys can do this. If you take Rachel's advice and you go all in after you combine incomes, You guys can knock this out and not be paycheck to paycheck, but cutting costs and raising income is how you do this. Okay. How much is your rent right now?

48:20Well, we don't own the house, and our mortgage is$1 ,400 a month. You do own it or you don't? We do. Okay, okay, so you have a house together, and it's$1 ,400 a month. Okay, which, yeah, isn't terrible. And then where else is your money going? So we got the mortgage, and then it's an older house. So especially now in the winter times, the electrical bill and gas bill kind of skyrockets because, like I said, it's an older house. We're working on redoing it slowly because of financials. Okay, well, so how much is the heat a month? Let's just, what's the number? How much do you pay? Gas is around like$250 a month.

49:05Okay. In the colder months. Okay. And what else? I'm doing a rough budget for you, and I got$3 ,400 left out of your monthly income. Where else is it going? And then I have$750 incident loans. Yeah. And then electrical is around$200 to$250, depending on the month. In the summers, it's a little bit more, but not much. Okay. and other than that, groceries, and we just got done paying off a couple pet bills because we have a dog. Okay. So, yeah, I want you guys to do a written budget because I'm sitting here. I'm just doing rough math. I'm not saying that this is exactly what everything is. You should have around$2 ,000-ish left,$1 ,800,$2 ,000, and I'm like, where's that?

49:59And it's probably eating out and some target runs or whatever. It's life. I understand stuff. But I think if you guys do a written budget, you're going to feel like you got a raise. And I mean a strict budget. Like we're shopping at Aldi. We're not going out to eat. Like we're doing nothing. And we're doing food for, it's just the two of you for$400 a month, which can be done. You know, like, so I think it is a level for you guys of actually living on a plan and being pretty frugal until this 90 grand is paid off. And working extra. Yeah. And pausing the little housing projects. If it's not an emergency and it's a$250 little thing we'd like to fix, no, we're not doing that.

50:44We signed up to live in an old house. We've got to focus on this debt. So that means we're camping a little bit, right? You know, it's, again, emergency common sense here. But other than that, you know, if this floorboard creaks and it's going to cost$300 to fix, sorry, the floorboard's going to creak. So it is – Rachel's right, and I just want to throw that in there because you need the right mindset in order to adopt what she's talking about, which is a strict budget. So you go, what does strict mean? And strict means the four walls, Rachel. Yeah. And explain that, you know, I'll give it to you back, give it back to you.

51:18But I think that that's what they've got to have. It's like we are saying there are certain things that we are not going to spend money on and simplifying so that we can be super strict. Yeah, that's right. And if she ups her income, Dylan and you guys get an extra, gosh,$1 ,500,$2 ,000 a month just from a salary job. Game changer. That's huge. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it is hard. How old are you guys? We're both 23. Okay. So there is a hard reality, too, Dylan. of coming out of college, getting your first jobs, which are always entry level, you're starting at the bottom, and seeing how expensive life is.

51:58Like life is not as, you know, you look at your parents and say, oh my gosh, look at like the life they're living or people 15 years older than me. There's a reality of starting off. And y 'all are feeling that, you know what I mean? So there's something really beautiful about it. I think there's something that creates in you all some really good habits to tighten up. But it's a little bit of you kind of get hit in the face with reality that it's not an Instagram world. When you actually got to make the money and you actually see after you pay taxes and insurance and everything, you're like, oh, wow.

52:28Everybody wants to own a home. And I'm like, you should probably enjoy renting and let the supervisor take care of all your problems for two years. Because as soon as you own a home, you got problems. And I'm not in any way knocking the dream of a home. Sure. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Okay. I mean, you could talk me into going right now in some apartment where I don't have to do anything. I'd change my mind in two hours, but for two hours, it would be Shangri-La.

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54:39All right, Adam is up next in Seattle, Washington. Adam, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Hey, so admittedly, I've been kind of Dave-ish for seven years, but two days ago, I became debt-free. Um, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, my fiance, the woman of my dreams, and I just got engaged, uh, this past August. Um, and she also started law school about five hours away. Um, and, uh, is taking some student loans for that and starting to accumulate some more debt. Um, so we're kind of considering a couple of things, uh, one kind of independent and we're not married yet, should I just start building my emergency fund and saving for a wedding?

55:26Or should we maybe rush the engagement, maybe elope to a small wedding and start cash flowing law school? That one. I was going to say, whichever one you want, it's more, there's not a right or wrong necessarily. Did I say one was right or one was wrong. He called the show. He gave us two scenarios and I voted. And Ken said, maybe I can throw in something else then. I'm not super fulfilled with my current job in the place I'm working at. Not necessarily what I'm doing. I'm even more concrete now on this decision. Okay, well, keep going. So what do you think? Yeah, sorry. And then living five hours away.

56:11So I commute over almost every weekend to spend time with her. But if I keep my current job, we can cash flow everything, but maybe not live with each other for the next two years. Okay, that's absurd. Wait, when's the wedding? Well, he doesn't know. That was part of the question. Oh, yeah. He's like, do we save up and do the wedding? And I know you love a good wedding. Or do I elope? So I got more questions. I was having a little bit of fun. Yeah, no, it was great. With the certainty of it. But OK, so let's go back to if I stay in my job that I'm not fulfilled in, I can cash flow the law school, but we can't actually live in the same city.

56:52Did I hear that correctly? You heard that correctly. That's a terrible idea. So the question is, can you start to look in the area where she is? And is that where you two would like to start your life, where she currently is? That would be the first question. Yeah, we've kind of agreed that's not necessarily where we want to spend any time after she finishes school. And it's going to take her, what, two years from now? Yeah, about two. So May of 2028 will be the graduation target. Can you find a job where she is, where she's going to law school? Do you have a job that's pretty easy to kind of transfer and make similar type of money that you have now?

57:31I would probably take around a 10 % pay cut to live in that side of the state. but I could probably find something similar. And how much would it be? How much would you be making? Probably closer to 89 to 90 ,000 instead of like a hundred to one Oh five. What is she doing now? She is a part time for a law firm, a family law firm. And she is doing like legal intake and processes for them. And while she's in school. So she has exact, she has started law school. Yes. And is that, is that helping pay for her? at all what she's doing now? Yeah, it helps basically cover the cost of living. She got a really good scholarship that's non-conditional, which is awesome.

58:15And so like the out-of-pocket cost for tuition is like$13 ,000 a semester. That's not bad for law school. Yeah. Yeah. I think you moved to her temporarily. Oh, Rachel has a plan. Stay tuned. She has a plan. It's right here. This is what I would do, Adam. What? Okay. I would plan for a December wedding. You got 10 months. Okay? Okay. If you can make similar money, I'm leaving. I'm going to go next to the fiance. You know what I mean? 100%. So I'd go rent. You go rent an apartment that you both like and say, okay, this is probably where we're going to live for two years. You stay there, stay at the new apartment, and you start working at them.

58:53You start saving, saving, saving, saving, saving. Spend a little bit of money and have a little wedding. It doesn't have to be big or wonderful or fancy. and then you're going to use some of that savings and or savings in the future after you guys get married to cash flow the rest of law school but i i'd move on this if that's right if you guys are really gonna get married get married i don't like this two-year yeah but you pushed you pushed him out to december i like your plan you go faster so i would literally i just have a december wedding and i like december wedding so that's what i would have planned this is why i do what i do on this show because i am agnostic about weddings i'm very public about this lately it's come up a lot on shows.

59:29I'm very strong positioned that no guy ever wants to go to a wedding. It's only their wives. So what are we doing? We're spending money on something that quite frankly, we could just do very intimate, small group of people, take some really nice pictures, skip the trip. Whatever now, like now, like I go get a job first in this other place. And then when I got the job and somewhere around the same week that I started the new job, we would go get a pastor or just justice of the peace, do a small little ceremony, get married, combine finances, move forward, and then eventually do a really amazing honeymoon to celebrate it.

1:00:10But I understand what I'm saying does not play well with women. I understand. It was half of the equation. So I understand that what I'm - But she's also someone that just chose to go to law school, and there is a little bit of like, hey, I kind of chose this, so then this over there is going to have to give, right? Tradeoffs. Yeah, it's fair. What do you think, Adam? Did we cover everything? Yeah, no, I think you covered everything quite a bit. I appreciate all of that. I think it gives me some real clarity on finding a job on the other side of the state. I would. And what's going on. Yeah, and just starting a new life.

1:00:48Yeah, I love that you're going to cash flow law school. That's amazing. That will be the greatest decision that you ever make. How smart is she to get that job that she was getting and scholarship and all of it? So the fact that they can cash flow law school, Rachel, is why I'm so bullish on let's just skip the$20 ,000 or whatever. Because a small wedding now costs. I know. It's expensive. It's absurd. And you can do the renew the vowels and have a big thing there in five years or something. I should get some online license. And I'll just marry people live on the show. Just Pastor Ken. Yeah. Just get Adam and his fiance on a video call.

1:01:27I'll do the thing. We'll marry him. We'll do the joint. It's great. And then it's done. For people who want to move quickly like me. It's fair. Efficiency is the game. I love it. Hey, you know, we get fun social questions, Rachel, from time to time. Yes, we do. So I've picked out one for you over here. All right? Give it to me. You like the TikTok, don't you? No. Aren't you over there? I don't like the TikTok, the Instagram. Let me see if I have one from the gram. I don't, but I'm going to give you one from TikTok because you're super cool. They're younger than me, but go ahead. This is Hayden from TikTok.

1:01:57Why do you recommend term life insurance over whole life insurance? What was his name? Hayden. Hayden. Yeah, he's on the talk, throwing it your way. I'm trying to sound cool. And it occurred to me that doesn't sound cool at all. Okay. Okay. Basic reasons is whole life is significantly more expensive than term life. And with whole life insurance, they're mixing. why it's expensive is because you have this investment inside the insurance. So always remember, keep your investments and your insurance separate. Because when you combine them like that, you get a crappy rate of return. Whole life insurance, there's so many different names for it.

1:02:35But there's so many hoops of like when you die, they keep a certain amount, you don't get as much. I mean, it's just it is it's an exhausting product that actually ends up screwing the consumer in the long run, where you could have had, which you should term life insurance if someone is dependent upon your income that's significantly cheaper and then whatever you would have paid for the whole life just invest that and you will come out so had we did that on the show we did this on the show it was maybe last week someone had a whole life policy that like their grandparent opened for them when they were like seven years old they were 40 something and they were going to cash it out and there was only i want to say like 90 grand in there after all of that when we said if they had paid and we had did the investments it would have been it was over a million dollars.

1:03:20Make you sick in your stomach. I mean, it's unbelievable what you are missing out when you are using your insurance as an investment. Don't do that. And that's what whole life does. So, it's usually a family, a young family member selling it too. They come out of school. Don't get tied in. Don't get tempted by whole life. Here's what we want you to do. If you're thinking about life insurance, and you need to be, you need to contact our friends at Zander Insurance. Zander.com is the website. Zander.com Z-A-N-D-E-R.com, exactly like it's spelled, Z-A-N-D-E-R.com, or call 800-356-4282. Tell them Ken sent you over there, and they'll give you a quote.

1:03:57You won't believe how affordable term life is, and it takes care of everybody that matters to you. And it's simple, simple, simple. They've been with us for three decades. Trust me, they'll take great care of you.

1:04:17Thank you.

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1:05:45The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Why Refi? If your private student loans are in default and other lead lenders said no, why Refi could be your next step. Why Refi was built for this very situation, helping borrowers refinance with low fixed rates. And in affordable payments, you can get back to winning with money. Check out whyrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Steve in Minnesota. My cousin is a home builder and needs$150 ,000 to fund his business. He asked me to loan him$75 ,000 and my brother to loan the other$75 ,000.

1:06:27He says that he has all of his assets in property that hasn't sold. I'm concerned he's over leveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Should I do it because he's family? I mean, my short answer is no, I wouldn't be loaning money to family regardless. If you have the$75 ,000 in cash and you want to give it as a gift to help the old cousin out, you're welcome to do that. I probably wouldn't. So I wouldn't because it's alone and I wouldn't because of the assumption that just because it's family, you're supposed to help all the time. No. But if you guys are really close and you're like, hey, I don't know.

1:07:09This is Steve. What do you think Steve's cousin's name is? What would you guess? Steve from Minnesota. So I feel like I need to go with a strong Minnesota Midwest name. Brian? I'm going to go Owen. Oh, wow. Okay. So Owen. Maybe. Yeah. So if you love Owen and you and Owen are, oh my gosh, my friend Ben is from Minnesota. Oh, that's right. Yeah. But yeah, if you and Owen are like brothers, you're really cousins and you're like, and he's, listen, I'm giving you a situation. Steve's a millionaire and Steve's like poor Owen and Betsy, his wife, they need help. Steve is not a millionaire. And we're going to help him.

1:07:44Then you can, you can give and if that's what you choose to do. Sure. But that's probably not the situation. there's a reason why he's asking for 150 000 from you and his brother i know and goodness gracious you've got to trust your gut on these things yeah if somebody presents like that every time he answered his own question just a little object lesson really quick i'll go right back to the phone but this you need to hear this folks okay if you ask somebody this question or you say i'm concerned he is over leveraged and won't be able to pay it back should i do it because he's family He's probably over leveraged.

1:08:18No, the leading sentence. I'm concerned he's over leveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Ding, ding, ding. There's your answer. I think sometimes people just need someone else to say no. We really should say, would you like to hate this guy in the future? Because you're going to hate him when he doesn't pay you back. The whole loaning money to family, y 'all, don't do it. It ruins the relationship. Do not do it. Oh, such a hard pass. So Steve, no. unless you're a multimillionaire. I don't care what his name is. Christina is up next in West Palm Beach, Florida. Christina, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call.

1:08:56I really appreciate it. Sure. I'm going to try to be straight to the point. I'm 56 and my husband is 57. We make about$200 ,000 to$250 ,000 a year, and we have a net worth of$2 million. That$3 million net worth is made up of our primary residence, which is worth about$2.2 million, and we have no mortgage on it. We also own an investment property that's a townhouse in the same area where we live that's worth about$350 ,000 and we have a$200 ,000 mortgage on it. So of our$3 million in net worth, $2 ,350 ,000 is equity in property that is unrealized because it's sitting there as it is. In our retirement account, we have about$500 ,000.

1:09:39We have well over six months of living expenses, so about$150 ,000. And that makes up where we get to the$3 million. So here's my question. My question is, in about seven to eight years, we're going to probably want to retire. We'll be around$55. If we sell our primary house right now, it's worth$2.2 million. As I said, we have no debt on it. So we would get the$2.2 minus real estate commission, minus taxes, capital gains, and all of that. And then in seven to eight years, the money that's left over about$1.9 million based on investing it conservatively like you guys have talked about and putting it into a good solid mutual fund, that$1.9 could be really worth close to like$3.8, somewhere in that range.

1:10:25So then when we're retiring, now we're up with a$3.8. And of course, over the next seven to eight years, we're not going to retire. I work from home, so I can be mobile. My husband has a small business that he would sell. it gives us a different chapter in our life that we're ready to start we think but we're nervous which is why we're calling you um as a matter of fact i'm calling you my husband has no idea but we're calling you and um because we you know we don't it seems like so so we would be working for the next five to seven eight years yeah so we'd still be dumping money into our retirement we would still be putting money away christina if you just let me ask you this let's pretend for a second you sold the investment property okay just go with me you'll net out about 150 000 add that to your 500 000 so you're at 650 000 in retirement right now you're not going to stop working how much could you guys be putting away in retirement for the next five years how much extra do you think they'll be in there we could probably put away now that our home is paid off and if you were to sell the investment property which really isn't an expense just probably 50 000 a year we could probably put away into retirement.

1:11:33So another$350. Yeah. Okay. So with that, with the money doubling every seven years, we'll kind of shorten it to five years just for the math sake, you probably would have around$1.5 million without selling the home. Okay. If you run that out through retirement, my question to you is, and you may want to sit down with the SmartVestor Pro to like look at all these numbers more specifically, but would that be enough for you guys? Because how much do you live on a year? About$200 ,000 a year that we live on. So you live on basically everything you make? You make$200 ,000. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

1:12:11Yeah, we make$200 ,000. I'm sorry. No, we live well below our means. We probably live on about$95 ,000 to$100 ,000. We put the rest into retirement and paying down mortgages and things like that over the year. Yeah. Probably closer to$100 ,000. Yeah. So I would run those numbers out and just see what it looks like. Because ideally, you don't want to touch the nest egg. But you'd be hitting it pretty close. You'd be squeaking by at$1.5 million. And to that end, I'm wondering, have you guys discussed staying in this house long term, even as you are aging? Do you want to stay in your current home that's paid for?

1:12:44Or is that at some point we're going to downsize or relocate? So our home is a very small home. It's a two-bedroom, one-bath. Our home is not worth the money. It's worth the 2.2 is the dirt. So we live in an area where people are coming down and knocking down the old homes and building big, huge houses. So for us, the house that we want to stay in, we're getting to an age where we want to be in a community, not a downtown area where, you know, there's a lot of Airbnbs and people coming and going and people staying for two months out of the year and then leaving. One of our, we'd like to be in a community where it's people more, I mean, I don't know.

1:13:18Do you have a community in mind? right now that you guys see and that would be fun to live in? We, no. We have looked into staying in Florida and perhaps maybe going to a different area of Florida, maybe the Tampa region or the Jacksonville. Okay, yeah. So I would just look, go online and just look at some places, see how much those are, right? Because depending on the city in Florida, depending on the community, depending on how far you are from the coast or not, like the prices are going to vary. and I would see what could you get if you know you you know you would get what 2.2 is that what you said and golly a million bucks what would that buy I don't know do you know what I mean it could it could be an expensive area and so that's what I'm saying I think it's worth the exercise in the chance that you might go well let's go ahead and cash out of our current home right now and we take the windfall of that and let's get that invested to Rachel's point I mean I'm saying that's possible to put that money in and you guys live a little bit less expensive, maybe in another place.

1:14:18Just all stuff to be thinking through. You guys aren't in bad shape, but you're not in great shape. However, at any point in time,$2.2 million by selling that current home as you're older, that puts you in good shape. Yeah. And, Christina, the good thing is, too, from like a mental perspective, you're, you know, it's a small house. It's the dirt that's expensive. and so there's a part that you get$2.2 million for not a big house so it's not like you're going from a nice big house to a small one downsizing you actually may get the same size house somewhere else for half the price so yeah nothing's on fire I don't think that you need to rush by any means but yeah here in the next two years you guys really start thinking okay if we take these numbers and expand it out could we live on this and do we need to sell this?

1:15:04It sounds like you want to sell you don't want to be with next to all the Airbnbs I think your mind's made up on selling, so I'd do it sooner than later if you guys want.

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1:16:17Okay, breaking news. You know, I love to do a little breaking news every once in a while. Oh, my gosh. I thought you were being for real. I was like, oh, my gosh, what? You just killed the fact that I'm not being for real. I'm trying to act here. I think of all the current events happening. You just stepped right on it. Did something happen while we were on break? Folks, you've got to know this about Rachel. She's lovely. She's exactly who you think she is. She's very literal. Like, I'm being sarcastic about something I got to tell you about. I knew you were. I was playing a little bit. But you're like, we got breaking news.

1:16:46My kid, there's a lot of things happening in the news right now that we are on pins and needles. Well, this is breaking news. Okay, go. Ramsey style. Go. What is it? The VIP package on the Live Like No One Else cruise has sold out. What? Breaking news? I told you it was breaking. Right here. What's it when they had the newspapers back in the day? Right. What would they yell? We need a broadcast news style flashing logo that makes it seem even more important than it is. I cannot believe it. Well, it's going fast. So this is a lot faster than the last one. So you're looking for a trend. It's happening.

1:17:20There it is. So now that means that there's what's left. Yeah. It's a good question, Rachel. Thank you for asking. The preferred package for extra access, better seating, more time with Dave and the Ramsey personalities, for those of you that care about that. so if you're debt free this is your chance to celebrate with us you can secure your cabin with a six hundred dollar deposit that's nothing for you people that are just you know four five and six you're just cash heavy you just got cash six hundred bucks gets you a cabin we're going to the western caribbean in march of 2027 and uh so there you go vip package too late no breaking news preferred package but the preferred package is still available there what was it called though When the guys would have newspapers on the streets, I'm thinking like Titanic days, what would they yell for you to buy the newspaper?

1:18:10Do you know what I mean? Hear ye, hear ye. Extra, extra. Extra, extra read all about it. I went about 100 years earlier. I went with the hear ye, hear ye. That's what I said. That shows you where my brain is at. There's people in the audience out there going, I don't know what ye means. Hear ye. It means you, but they said ye. Hear ye, hear ye. All right. William is up in Birmingham, Alabama. William, how can we help today? Hi. So I am so much stressing about finances to the point where I have given myself a few months ago a miniature stroke. My doctor says that I probably want to see past 40 because of how much stress I'm under.

1:18:54Good gracious. How old are you? And I'm 29. Okay. What is this debt? How much debt are we talking about that's causing you to have a stroke? It's not as much as I've heard on the show. It's about$15 ,000, give or take. Okay. I'm not a doctor. I have wanted to play one on TV. It's never going to happen, but I do like to wear scrubs. Okay? Long setup. I think you're going to be okay. $15 ,000 feels, and I'm not in any way minimizing your feelings, what's going on, But I want to give you some advice here that we're going to walk you through how to get out of this$15 ,000. It is very doable and nothing that you should be dying over.

1:19:37Yeah, but the doctor may be for real being like, well, he may be really strong. He may be all the way. No, no, I believe he is, but I'm trying to say. Yes, as a financial expert. We can help you. Yes. William, how much do you make a year? Roughly about$55 ,000 a year. Okay. Okay. What's the$15 ,000 in debt? 10 ,000 of it's for car payments. The rest is collections. Okay. What's the car worth? I want to say it's worth 15. You could sell that like that's private, private sale. You could sell it for 15 and you owe 10 on it. Great. That one's soft. We can solve that. You can sell that today and sleep like a newborn baby.

1:20:22Yeah. Like literally like, like in like five days. What's the collections? Five grand of collections for what? Credit cards, student loan, and I believe that's it. Okay. I want Rachel to walk you through what she would do if she were you with those collections. Well, I would – do you have any money saved? I don't. I don't have any nest eggs, emergency funds. Okay. I'm living paycheck to paycheck. So here's what I would do today. I would go find a, you know, sell the car, get a$5 ,000 car, be done with that. You have$5 ,000 in collections. It's what mid February. I'd make it a goal by March 30th.

1:21:08I'm just throwing that out there that I would have$5 ,000, William, that my life depends on it. Cause apparently it does for you. Like literally, like you need to go and work every night till 10 PM somewhere. You need to sell everything. you need to eat nothing but beans and rice rice and beans as ramsey would say like do nothing for a month and a half and work your butt off and save five thousand dollars make it make it like an extreme goal it's extreme but i would do it what do you do for a living william um i'm retired military um i got up medically um i have two kids recently divorced um still have custody of my kids so are you on full benefits are you so in other words you're not pulling income from any other source?

1:21:53Correct. So what do you, okay. So what do you do during the day? What could you do? Yeah. What are you doing during the day? I'm looking for employment. I made some really bad choices a couple of years ago. It left me with incarceration. I'm still dealing with it with drug courts. Hopefully I'll be getting my charter dismissed in September when I complete the program. I think the stress is coming from other places than$15 ,000 of debt, right? Yeah. Oh, okay. I could tie, you know, with the employment and finances and all that tying to the bigger picture, but I think it's more of the bigger picture.

1:22:33Yeah, I agree. Okay, well, that does make more sense, and we can't necessarily help with that, but I would tell you that But you need to be doing something. It will help with all of this. But this, you know, ruminating all day long, getting rejected because you're applying and you've got the incarceration. So what I hate about the American culture is it's very hard for someone like you who didn't do anything crazy. But you should be employed. But I know someone can employ you. And so here's your homework assignment. Where in your area are people working that have stuff on their record probably worse than you?

1:23:07You know what I'm talking about? Mm-hmm. Where are they working? I can tell you where they're working. On construction sites. Okay? In the trades. Do you have any skill set that would allow you to do some basic trade work? Not trade work. I have a degree in business management, but as far as trades, construction, all that, I don't have anything on that. Are you any good at it? Can you pick up a shovel? Can you work for a masonry crew and haul around bricks and make brick mud all day long? I think I can manage. Yeah, I know you can because I did it at 18 and I can barely put gas in my car at 51.

1:23:44So we're talking manual labor. No one wants to do it except the Williams of the world. So I'm going to go find a manual labor job just to get out there. I mean, honestly, it's less about the money. The money is going to help get you this five grand ASAP, which you need to get just to pay it off. But it's the dignity piece. There's something about getting up, having a destination to go to, completing something. Like there's something in that, William, that that self-confidence comes back to you. But you need that$20 to$22 an hour labor job in a warehouse. Don't get locked in on my one example. I'm just trying to get you.

1:24:21If I was you and I needed to do what Rachel told me to do, and she's right, by the way, I would go, where are the jobs that most people don't want? Because they're hard. They're like my good friend, Mike Rowe calls them dirty jobs. go do that because they pay really well and it will help you in the short term on this money stuff and then help your soul how old yeah how old are you william i'm 29 you're 29 okay and you said recently divorced was that how recent was that uh we finalized yesterday oh yeesh man william i'm sorry that's there's you've had some yeah some challenges some uphill really hard hard things in your story.

1:25:03But what a beautiful thing that you are still so young, honestly, and that you could turn your whole life around. Like, you know, and you probably are making steps to do that now. But getting some of this accomplished, and I think there is something about paying off that debt that actually, again, good financially, obviously, but there's something about that self-dignity and progress that you make in life that you're actually making positive progress towards something positive, the direction's going positive, positive. And it's just one day at a time making those decisions. And then over the scope of a year, two years, three years, William, like you're going to be a different man.

1:25:40You really are, but you got to change and, and you have to put in that effort because that's, what's going to help, help this whole process from the financial and the work and who you are, William. So we're cheering for you. We're so glad you called.

1:26:18Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Wes is up in Los Angeles, California. Wes, how can we help? Hey, I was just calling. Me and my wife, we make around$165 a year. We have no debt. We have about$50K in savings. And I was just wondering if it would be dumb to do a nice vacation this summer and spend about$10 ,000. Okay. $10 ,000. and are we cash flowing this or are we going to pull that from somewhere else? We're going to be cash flowing it. Okay. Yeah. I don't see any red flags here.

1:27:04What are you concerned about? Well, I mean, we still own the house. So, you know, we could white knuckle it. And, I mean, we project to pay off the house in about eight years, and that's way faster than 30 years. You're doing great. Could throw more retirement. I don't know. I just hear a lot of stories about people who retire and don't have enough or stuff like that. So you think your$10 ,000 vacation is going to put you behind some of your key goals? Well, I don't know. That's why I've been going back and forth about this for months. Well, but I'm actually trying to dig into the source of why you would ask that question, because we need to kind of get that up to the top and go, okay let's if if you're concerned that 10 000 is extravagant based on your financial goals then you have to play that out and go okay if i didn't spend any money on vacation which i think is crazy i would never recommend that um so what would be the difference so what would be the budget conscious vacation how much would you spend on that if you didn't spend 10 uh well we've done other vacations where we've sent maybe like five or four.

1:28:14All right. This would be a lot. So I could do that. But also, I mean... Well, let me play that out. Let me play that out. So I'm trying to help you. So let's say we say, no,$10 ,000 is too much. And so we spend five because we've done that before. So now you've saved$5 ,000 to go into one of two of those buckets, either towards the house or throw extra five grand in retirement. When you play that out, I think that's important to go, How much impact is that really making versus I'm really winning in the baby steps. I'm going to pay my house off in eight years. And it's a nice vacation that will remember the rest of our life.

1:28:51And oh, by the way, we're not promised tomorrow. That's where I'm coming at it. And so I don't think it's too much, especially that you're cash flowing it. Yes. I would 100 % do it. Yeah. Yes. You guys have no debt. You have good savings. How much do you have in retirement just in general? Okay. So we both have California pensions, and I also have been maxing out an IRA for the last year and a half. And I'm worth only in our 30s, so I'm going to continue that. How much do you have currently in all of your retirement accounts? I don't know. I know I have about$12 ,000 in my IRA that I started about a year and a half ago.

1:29:26And the California pension stuff, I don't know. It doesn't have a cash value the same as others do. It has, like, you'll make 85 % of said salary at the end of your... job or whatever. Well, hoping that the California pension is still around is a bit of a risk, in my opinion. But maybe that's not, maybe I'm being crazy. But I mean, seriously, the way that government runs. What does your wife say, Wes? She doesn't care about the vacations as much as I do. I was just going back and forth because I'm like, how much do I really need in savings when I'm 60 versus how much did I miss on living during the time.

1:30:04Yeah, are you taking, is it wife, kids, just you and the wife? Who are we talking about? Just me and the wife. Just me and the wife. Going where? Hawaii. Yes. Bro. Life is short, man. I would go to Hawaii, eat all the shave ice you can possibly get away with. Make memories, man. That's probably what I was thinking. Go enjoy, Wes. Don't worry. You are doing fine. You're doing great. You guys are doing awesome. You are. Well, I like these calls, Wes. you're fine. Go do it. No guilt. That's it too. It's such a scarcity mentality, but if you, you gotta, you gotta look at your facts and play everything out.

1:30:42Debt free, 50 grand makes 165 a year. Like we're all going to be okay. It's cashflow. It's great. We're all going to be fantastic. I love it. All right. Stephanie's up in Greenville, South Carolina. Stephanie, how can we help? Hi, we're in a military family. We have one income, no debt, and we're just feeling a little bit behind on the step six because of our frequent moves. And so we have on new this summer. And I was just curious if you would recommend, I know you guys don't normally, I'm renting out our current house since retirement is on the horizon. Rensing out your what? Sorry, say that again.

1:31:17Our current, the current home we live in right now before we move this summer. So you're talking about being a long distance landlord? Correct. Yeah. Yeah, we're not fans of that. It's just, if you run the numbers on it, I bet you'll find that the amount of profit after all of the expenses that are required to take care of this home, if you take what I'm going to get in rent, okay, minus the mortgage, minus expenses, I'll bet you're going to find it's very little profit, if any at all, and it's a whole lot of hassle. Right. Our thought was that we might potentially move back to this house, and we have a really great interest rate.

1:31:58So I didn't know if any of those factors mattered, if you guys always recommend it, just sell them. How long would it take you to get back? Somewhere between two and four years. So it's a short-term deployment, and how much control do you have over being transferred back in, or is this the idea that we're going to get out of the military and then settle back? He's at 20 years right now, so retirement is very much on that horizon. Okay, I do think that changes the question a little bit, if they're talking about short-term, coming back. yeah um i know my the only thing which this is still a headache and all the things i said are still true yeah and this is going to be picky but i'm going to be honest stephanie too you got to remember if you have someone living in your house maybe two or three different people on 12 month you know rentals and you move back in it feels different there there is a a reality of people living in your home that's your home that you're going to do it do you know what i mean so um not Not that that's a reason not to, but I think we paint this ideal situation.

1:33:00And then when the rubber meets the road and we're actually walking in it day to day, it's like, oh, it just hurts so much when you go in and the house is all banged up because of renters. And you know what I mean? All the things. Yeah. Okay. That actually brings up a good point. Is this house, Stephanie, that you're currently in that you would rent and go somewhere else and then come back? Is that a house you would stay in long term if the move wasn't involved? If you weren't transferring out? here yeah five to seven years it's not like a forever house but we do we like it um we just like said we're feeling very behind on baby step six because we just haven't had a mortgage to work to pay off and we're 43 that's fine but how much is the house worth if we were to sell it today and how much would you make on it so we would make around somewhere around 100 110 10 it's worth about 450 well the fact that you guys would would not stay in it longer than five to seven years and it's for i would honestly i would too if you had said this is our dream home that was where i was going i would have changed my mind i'm with rachel i'd sell pocket the hundred grand let it work for you yes put the hundred grand um gosh for four years you may even just throw in an index fund stephanie honestly and and then when you guys are ready to buy again after and settle down.

1:34:19Yeah, you'll have a good amount in there too. I mean, you know. And I also sense that he's probably going to go into a private sector job if that's the case. We want to know what that is, how much money he's going to make, because that's all going to play into what we buy when we come back. I love selling this house. Peace of mind, extra cash. I like it all. You guys are not behind at all.

1:35:06Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster.

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1:36:13All right, folks, one of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner. They're going to help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. All right, let's go to Bill in Detroit, Michigan. Bill, how can we help? Hey, how you doing, Ken and Rachel? Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on?

1:36:46I have about$850 ,000 in my 401k and my other investments. Good for you. My advisor wanted me to... Excuse me? I said, good for you. Great. I don't know if that's good or not. I'm 62. I want to retire in a couple of years. And my advisor is wanting me to invest in an annuity. No. Is that something? No. Think about? No. Don't do that? Nope. Your advisor probably does because they make a lot of money off of annuities. Not saying that he's a bad guy, but yeah. No, annuity. Yes. Yeah. Not a great product. I mean, there's variable and fixed. Variable. There's certain times that maybe, but that's after everything is maxed out and you have no other options for retirement because you have so much and everything else.

1:37:34And maybe you want to do a little thing over here. But no, the short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you have it in a good spot. Are they in mutual funds within the 401k? Well, I don't think – I think I got to pay taxes and all that stuff, I'm sure. I think it's in a – I got a mutual fund in a bank. I've got a couple of different styles, I guess, and the ones are just to work. It's a 401k, regular work, 401k where they match and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, well, I would – yeah, just to look in, because retirement is coming up for you to make sure that what everything is invested in feels like a good spread.

1:38:15You know, we kind of always talk about four different types of mutual funds so that you have enough diversification. So there's growth, growth and income, international and aggressive growth. So those are kind of the four buckets that you can look at within the mutual fund space, which is great. But no, I would just keep them in mutual funds, you'll get a better rate of return, lower fees, and yeah, and it is. It's just a better way to invest your money than being stuck in an annuity. Okay. Now, I shouldn't look into rolling over into a Roth or anything like that. How some people do that. Okay.

1:38:49Well, so for the IRA, how much is in the IRA versus the 401k? The IRA has 117 ,000 in it. 117? Do you have cash available to pay the taxes? Oh, yeah. Yeah, if I have$60 ,000 in my savings account, which is dumb, I know. No, no, no, that's not dumb. That's like good emergency funds. Bill, I've never met somebody doing so good who thinks he's doing so bad. Well, I'm by myself, and I'm pretty scared about retiring. You're doing wonderful. You're doing really good, Bill. Yes, yes. Well, I would look to see, yeah, I mean, the Roth conversion. There is a tipping point of if you have too much and depending on tax bracket, everything that it's may not be worth it.

1:39:30But for a lot of time, it is worth it to start rolling over, even if it's a little bit each year. So I would still keep some cash on hand. That's your emergency fund. And you may need less than 60. I don't know. But you could use some of that. I would contact a SmartVestor Pro bill. They're advisors. Yeah, that we recommend. and they probably will not be pitching annuities and all that. So they'll be able just to look at your situation and really help from a strategic perspective with your money, where you are, to help kind of guide the next step. So I really would. So check out our SmartVestor Pro, one that's in your area, because they will be able to have, they have a heart of a teacher.

1:40:13They'll be able to sit with you and really look at this and dig into the numbers. But I'd say no to annuity. And yes, probably start rolling over to a Roth and be cash flowing some of the taxes. Yeah. And Bill, thanks for the call. And Christian will help you find that information on the website where you can find some smart investor pros in your area. Not a fan of your financial advisor because they're selling you a bad product. And remember on this, you want to understand everything so that you're not feeling alone and scared. And the right financial advisor, you're going to go, oh, I know exactly what I should do and when I should do it, why I should do it, how, and I'm calling the shots.

1:40:46And so that's why we want you. That's your homework assignment. Have a couple conversations and move to somebody that you feel really, really good with that they're teaching you, not selling you. Lucas is up next in Bangor, Maine. I think that's how you say that. Lucas, how can we help? Hi, guys. So me and my wife are both 22, and we have$65 ,000 in savings right now, and then a three to six month emergency fund of$10 ,000. We've been kind of saving for a house as we're in an apartment right now. And we were curious on what's a good point to kind of stop aggressively saving, because I'm not actually contributing to any retirement right now.

1:41:31Yeah, it's a great question. So our rule of thumb when it comes to home buying, which you've done all the steps, which is to get out of debt, have a fully funded emergency fund, which you've done, and then save for first time homebuyers, we save a 5 % down payment. You go as low as 520 is ideal, but I know that's a lot for people. But just to go ahead and get in. And so looking at that, to get a 5 % down payment, when you look at the house and how much it's going to cost, we want your payment to be no more than 25 % of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate. So when you plug all that in, you can actually do this on RamseySolutions.com, the mortgage calculator.

1:42:09You can put some of these numbers in and figure out, okay, here's the number for our home of what we can afford right now with our income and what we have saved. how much how much do you guys make a year um we made 115 ,000 last year 115 yes okay good for you guys that's great yeah so after taxes your take-home pay you guys are bringing in what probably 9 ,000 a month ish it was more like and it's I have a lot of overtime so it varies every It's usually about$5 ,000 to$6 ,000, like$6 ,000 a month. Did you guys get a big tax return? Are you going to? We ended up getting about$1 ,700 back because my wife was a part-time student.

1:43:04It feels like a lot going to taxes,$115 ,000 and you're only, huh. Okay, well, that is what it is. So yeah, so I would be looking at what you're bringing home a month. And you guys just look to say, okay, how much is a fourth of that take home pay? That's what our mortgage payment has to be on a 15 year. So but again, that mortgage calculator can help figure that out. And it may take a little bit of time more time to save I wouldn't go longer than probably two more years, Lucas of not saving in retirement to be aggressive with this down payment saving for the down payment. So if the house that you guys really want is more than what you can do right now or in the next two years, it's okay to keep saving and be funding retirement.

1:43:44So it may slow down your savings, but you guys are 22. It's great to get in the market. Like when you are ready to get in, it's good to get in, but I don't want you to feel rushed to get in because you guys have some time. Yeah, and here's the thing. I hear this, and it's so fun to listen to young couples think about this. there is such cultural pressure to get a house as soon as you possibly can. Because if not, you're some sort of loser. Yeah. Is that still, do you feel that that's still out there? I certainly believe millennials felt that. Yes. I think it's, I don't know, I could be wrong. I feel like it's less with Gen Z just because the market is so expensive versus 10 years ago.

1:44:24I can't even consider it. Yeah. It feels so big. But no, that's a real thing. Even if you can't do it, so you're not expecting to do it, it still feels like you're behind. Yes, yes. And so I just want to point out because we have so, this is awesome. We have so many young people coming in on the show. Listen, it is, A, it is not easy to get a house right now. You are not cuckoo. You aren't a snowflake. I feel that pain. Okay. But what I'm trying to tell you is, is you aren't behind in the life category because of circumstances outside of your control. Right. And so, yes, it stinks that you will have to wait longer and save more.

1:45:01It does stink. I get it. But my point is if you can just hang on and hopefully the market conditions change. Yes. And I'm running. I just pulled up the calculator on my phone. Good. Sorry. No, I knew you were. This is good. I know. Yes. So with the down payment, I put$12 ,000. He had$65 ,000, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, home value. I did this quick. but 300 to 350 ish they should be able to do so great starter home lucas there you go um but yeah but you guys look in your area figure it out and just take your time no rush lucas no rush

1:46:01Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:46:53All right. Every once in a while, we love to get a Baby Steps millionaire on the line so that you can hear their story and make the connection to how possible it actually is. This is not a myth. These folks are not unicorns. They're real. and Stephanie's up next in Phoenix, Arizona. Stephanie, how are you? I'm nervous, but I'm good. Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great. Thanks for spending time with us. We really appreciate it. Oh, thank you. And hey, nothing to be nervous about. We're just going to ask you simple questions and you already got the answer. So like you're going to get an A plus already.

1:47:27So yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so tell us your net worth. I'm approximately 1.6 million. 1.6 million. You know, what's the mix? It's my TSP and IRA, so my retirement. I just paid off my house right around the new year. Nice. And my various checking and savings account. Okay, gotcha. Very good. And what is your income? Currently, it's about$110. Okay, what do you do? I'm federal law enforcement. Nice. Now, how much of the$1.6 million did you inherit? None. Zero. Zero. And we always like to ask, but I'm always afraid to ask a lady's age. But because it's for the show, I feel like I should get away with it.

1:48:21How old are you, Stephanie? 47. 47. My goodness, you're young. You're so young. Two and a half years from retirement, so I'm very excited. How many years? Two and a half. Wow. What are you going to do after that federal retirement? I have not figured out what I want to be when I grow up, but I'm sure it'll come to me. Well, I've got a nice little fun gift for you. It's called Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's my gift to you today. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It'll be really fun for you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, because you've got more to do and more money to make. But you're in great shape.

1:48:55Okay, I assume you got your degree in some type of, what, law enforcement? Actually, no. I was a young kid that had no idea what they wanted to do. So I had gone to school for my plan was to become a lawyer. So I went for pre-law and I got a degree in government. And there's absolutely nothing with that because my current job does not require a degree. Yeah. Isn't that something? What was your GPA? I think it was around a 3.1. Oh, show off. It's been so long. Rachel, I never sniffed a 3.1. I know. I don't even know what mine was, honestly. Really? You strike me as a 3.4 person. I'm more average than that.

1:49:41I'm going to go 3.2. I might be with Stephanie. I might be a 3.1. Okay. All right. Very good. Yeah. Okay. And Rachel, do you want to ask any questions here? I'm just rolling through our list. Yeah. No, I love it. Stephanie, what do you feel like was one of the things that helped you the most to build wealth, to become a net worth millionaire? there? I think I really did luck out. I got a really good paying job right out of college. It was completely unexpected. But as a 24-year-old, I started a job that I was making decent money, about$40 ,000, and it offered a way to start my retirement account.

1:50:28So I think that's really what it was. And I've always been a person that's really, I love seeing my savings grow. So that was always kind of a goal for me to see the savings get larger and larger. Yes. Yeah. That's a motivator. The progress, seeing that progress constantly was so good for you. What would you say to people who say$110 ,000 is not enough to make a living, much less be able to become a To pay off your house. Yeah. You know, it's not easy because you have to say no. And you have to make decisions and you have to hold off on some things that you want. And maybe you can't get it this month or even in six months, but maybe in a year if you just kind of wait for it.

1:51:16And so, yeah, I think it's absolutely possible to live on$110 ,000 and actually be able to put stuff aside. You just can't go and buy everything you want at the moment. You have to just hold off. Yes, living believers. That right there is fascinating. And, I mean, you will find one viral TikTok a month or a week or a day on somebody screaming and freaking out saying they can't make a living and cannot live comfortably on$100 ,000. And I think the answer you gave is so real. It's just delayed gratification and discipline is what I'm hearing. Yeah, I mean, it's not that I don't want nice things or that I don't get nice things.

1:51:57It's just sometimes I have to take that second to talk to myself and go, okay, do I need that right now? I want it, but I don't even need it. I don't even want it like right now. I can hold off on it until I can, I don't have to put it on a card or anything. I can pay cash for that. And you know, it's crazy, too. I find as time goes on, especially six months or a year later, you don't even want the thing anymore. Like it's you know what I mean? It's kind of just a memory. And you're like, oh, that was a moment in time. But to that point, we live in such a world where you want it right now. And you just get it.

1:52:33There is no suffering and saying no to yourself, right? That's, that's become uncommon. And so the fact that you've pushed through and that you're smart about your decisions, about what you're spending, And I do think there's something about that motivation of seeing money grow in savings. That's real, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And in my opinion, it's the right way to lean versus I would rather that excite me than all this new crap I can just buy and spend all my money on. Do you know what I mean? Which feels easier almost. Yeah. And so keeping all of that in check is so big. Well, and I got to thank Ramsey so much.

1:53:16I started listening to the Ramsey show in 2018, and I really had no plan to pay off my house very early. But that really kind of gave me the kick in the butt to really push for it and start focusing on it and knocking it out. But that's like that mindset. Yes. So I had the savings mindset to begin with, but actually paying off the house was not something I was initially thinking, oh, that'll happen quickly. It's amazing. And you did it in eight years from that point. And what is the house worth? Currently, the house is, according to online, it's worth about$320. Yeah. And I bought it way back in 2007.

1:54:02And you're 47, and you're about ready to, what do you get, two and a half years? You're going to have a really great retirement program, I'm hoping, from the government. Yes. Yes, I do. I am blessed that way. Yes. Fantastic. And then again, you're going to find another way to serve because you've got so much transferable skill and experience. And that's why, by the way, I do want you to take the assessment. It's my gift to you. And as you start to read your results, it's going to give you a written purpose statement that is essentially a dream job description in the sense of I'm good at it, I enjoy it, and it creates results I care about.

1:54:34Because here's the deal. Let's say that you just find something you really enjoy and you work until, let's say, 60, 10 more years of income on top of all of this. Stephanie, my goodness. Yeah, so much. I feel like Stephanie's too young to not do something. It is. Yes. Now have some fun. Slow down. Change up. You know, I get a lot of people come after me when I say things like retirement is overrated. And, you know, they're missing the point. but I'm also bringing it on myself by making such a generalization. What I am saying is, listen, if you want to retire and be super active and volunteer and play shuffleboard half the day, go get a massage, that's fine.

1:55:14I'm not saying relax. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to relax and have fun, but I'm still going to do something. And I think whether that's five hours, 10 hours, 15 hours, or 40 hours, this idea of making a contribution and it mirrors work, Whether or not it has a paycheck attached to it or not is not the point. So yes, Stephanie, I say yes and amen to what you're saying there. And again, you're a young lady and you have a lot of time left. So it's going to be really fun for you to be able to retire and kind of go into this next chapter like, you know, like really relaxed. And that allows you to make some really fun decisions because you have no fear.

1:55:52Well done, Stephanie. Way to go. You're amazing. You're amazing. There she is, folks. Thank you so much. Stephanie, you didn't sound nervous at all. No. At all. And you did a great job. Thanks for sharing your story with us. There it is. 47-year-old lady making$110 ,000 a year. Going to retire in two and a half years in a federal law enforcement job. All right. No glitz. No glam. Paid off house at all. Not a huge amount of money. It's crazy. She's worth 1.6 and growing with a paid for house. Folks, you think sometimes that we're just saying stuff to hear ourselves talk? Stephanie is absolutely living proof.

1:56:42If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else cruise is back March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a$600 deposit at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

1:57:33Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 43 verse 2. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. When you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned. The flames will not set you ablaze. Our quote today from Simone Biles. I'd rather regret the risk that didn't work out than the chances I didn't take at all. How about that? The Olympics. Yeah. Do you watch the Winter Olympics? You know, I was out of town this week, so I haven't started, but I love it. I love it. Really? Yeah. More so than the Summer Olympics? Oh. I'm a summer guy.

1:58:12I'm picking Summer Olympics. Yeah. Okay. I'm going downhill skiing, though. I love watching that. You like the downhill skiing? And, of course, the ice skating. I feel like that's... I like the curling. Ah. It reminds me of bocce ball, but it's on ice. Yes. That's a good... It's a very soothing sport to watch. And very hard, apparently. Yeah. So it looks easy. I want to be the guy with the little brush. And then you think with the broom? I think you'd be very efficient. I think I'd be great with the brush. I think you would do great. Yeah, I got to try that. I got to see if there's a local curling.

1:58:39There is. There is? Yes. Oh, my gosh. And it's like a new thing. This is exciting. And you do dinner. It's like a whole experience. Really? And then you go curling. This is a new thing. Let me tell you what else is new. As we're wrapping up the show, remember that you can always ask your question at RamseySolutions.com and get it answered the way we would answer it on the show. This is the Ask Ramsey feature at RamseySolutions.com. It's our own AI. It's free. So there you go. You can't get in on the phone to talk to us? No problem. Ask Ramsey's there. Check out the link in the show notes. Justin is up in Huntsville, Alabama.

1:59:14Justin, how can we help? Hey, how are you doing? Well, we're doing well, and Rachel's got a topped-off cup of tea. So, I mean, things are good here in the studio. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm a little bit nervous. Well, that's why I told you about Rachel's tea. She's calm, so you'll be calm. So relaxing. Oh, yeah. what's your question i'm i've moved down here recently and um i'm at a job i've been here since december um i i've made a bundle i'm 22 years old and i've made a bundle of poor decisions uh financially and i'm only about 15 000 in debt but i currently work a job at an electrical distributor and I make right around$16 an hour.

2:00:01It's like$16.25 or something. It's very low. I left a handyman business to move out here. And so I got an opportunity. I feel like I've been stressing financially. So I've found an opportunity to work at a construction job, making$18 an hour, which I think could probably go up more. He's saying he likes his employees to be 20 to 25 an hour love that but i'm struggling because i have an income problem and i want to get that resolved um but my boss where i work now has been paying for my gas because i don't make enough to pay for my gas with the debt that i'm in okay and i don't like i don't he bought parts for my truck, too, that I put on the truck.

2:00:52And he doesn't know about this job offer, obviously. And I don't know if it's morally or ethically right for me to take it. Of course it is. I just like I owe him. Well, if you feel like you owe him, then why don't you take this better paying job and then pay him that money back? And he probably won't take it. This is a good man who knows that he can only pay you$16 an hour. Now, when you go to him, you can say, hey, man, And I've got this other opportunity and I need it. And I'm so grateful for what you've done for me. But I know you can't pay me what they can pay me. And I've got to take that job.

2:01:25I'm so grateful to you. If he gets mad about it, then you know that the gift wasn't a gift. It was just some type of manipulation and whatever, whatever. But if he's a good guy, and I suspect that he is, he's going to be like, hey, man, I totally understand. Or, hey, I can get you to that, but it's going to be six months from now. You know, it'll create a conversation, but let's just remove the moral, ethical. There's nothing immoral, nothing unethical about you taking a better paying job that also has a ladder to even much better pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And so one of the stipulations, it's on a 1099, which I'm not used to, and I don't know that I'm ready for that.

2:02:11I literally have less than a dollar to my name in my bank account. Let me address that issue. Okay. You're talking about the new job would be 1099. Yes, sir. Okay, great. Here's what you would do. You would go talk to a legitimate tax pro. And if you go to RamseySolutions.com and just search tax pro, okay, you can find local tax pros in your area and go sit down with somebody. or do your own research and go, based on somebody who's making$18 an hour or$20 an hour, what's the tax rate, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is not difficult. And then what you do is, is when you get a check, it's$10.99, you're going to get the entire amount.

2:02:48And so you take out a percentage of each check. You can do this. It's just, you have the mindset that if I get paid$2 ,000,$2 ,000 is not mine. It's$2 ,000 less. Let's take 20%. It's just an easy number. That money is the federal government's. They're going to ask me for it, and I need to have it in savings. It's that simple. I just worry. I've never budgeted before, and I'm listing out all my stuff on Google Sheets, and I just, I stress with it. All I'm hearing is reasons why you're going to fail. And I don't know if you want me to just say, hey, man, you know what? You're right, Justin. Most people would be able to do what I said, but I think you're a complete buffoon and you are incapable of doing this.

2:03:35You have convinced me that this advice will not work for you, but I'm not going to say that. Rachel, talk to me about budgeting. Well, I was just going to say you're 22. You're learning adult skills, right? I mean, they don't teach, they should be teaching this more, but they don't. And so you're thrown into the real world. You're making money for the first time in your life. You made some mistakes. Now you're scared to death that you're, you don't even want to move. It's almost paralyzed you to do anything because you don't want to keep making worse mistakes, but you don't know how to move forward.

2:04:03So yeah, you just, you need a couple of steps. So you need some goals, Justin. So my first one would be for you, which we'll get you. If you hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a year of every dollar. It's our budgeting app that actually plugs in all of your entire financial pictures. So you'll do the onboarding. It takes probably 15 minutes, plugging all your info into every dollar. And then it has a set budget for you. It already gives you some categories, some categories you won't need. So you can just delete them. Then there's gonna be some you may need that's not on there.

2:04:32So you just add them. It's a very easy app, attach it to your bank account. So you can connect your bank account to it. And every time you swipe your card or use Apple Pay or whatever it is, a transaction is going to drop in and you drag and drop it and you start to actually plan out and say, here's how much I'm spending on food before the month begins. You plan food, clothes, gas, insurance, and you go down the line and you say, this is how much it takes to live a life, right? And you're going to do all of that minus what you make a month. And so that's the goal is to live within that income.

2:05:06And you're going to be able to do that very proactively. It's going to take about three months to really get it right. So you'll start in February. I would start, get it and start planning out March. I think my key for you would be next week, I want you to have a budget done for March. So you're looking ahead, okay? You're gonna have your March budget. It's going to be terrible. You're going to think, oh my gosh, I didn't know I spent this much here. I forgot about this bill over here. I forgot about that subscription. It's coming in. You're going to have to be readjusting some stuff. April's going to get a little bit better.

2:05:32By May, it's really going to start working. Okay? So that's one goal. The second goal is I want you to get$1 ,000 quickly. Justin, in the next 30 days, I want you to get$1 ,000. So I don't care if you do grocery delivery. I don't care if you're doing part-time somewhere. I don't care if you're selling stuff. I don't know what it is. But I want you to get$1 ,000 as fast as possible. And if you're doing those things, if you're planning your monthly income, you know where it's going. And you are seeing money in your account grow for the first time ever, even if it's 100 bucks here and there, right?

2:06:07You're just watching it go up. And then after that, it's like, okay, that's progress. You've made two huge progressions in your financial life. You have a plan for your money and you have your first savings. And then you're going to start tackling this$15 ,000. What kind of debt is it? uh it's mostly personal loans and and i have probably uh let's say 9 000 and a personal loan that i used to pay for my truck okay and then about another 1500 in credit card debt okay um so then you're going to work to pay off that 1500 first okay and if it's multiple cards split those debts up if it's 500 in this card a thousand on this make them separate so you can attack small all goals at a time.

2:06:48Cut up the credit card, be done with debt. I'm telling you at 22, if you just don't have debt for the rest of your life and you save, and then you start investing later, Justin, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine, but you have to do these things. And we know you can. So we're cheering for you. We're glad you called in. Go, Justin, go. And hey, to everybody else, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. fun