“My Husband Has Been Cheating On Me For 30 Years”

26:34If you're a Christian, then it goes with that lens on, right? But these things are all bigger than us. And I think culturally we've reduced it into what can I get for me? And my personal belief is that was us sitting at the top of the mountain and that was the slide off the hill, right? And there's something powerful about saying, reminding yourself every month or every two weeks when you get paid, this is not my money. And more importantly, I am not the number on this paycheck. I'm a person who fill in the blank. I'm a person who gives. I'm a person who is generous. I'm the person who sees that exhausted waitress and I over tip her or I over tip him because that's who I am is I keep my eyes open for others.

27:21Right. It makes it a I keep using the word spiritual, not to mean Christian, but it is a it's an ethos with which you carry yourself in the world. And so, again, like Rachel said, if you all can't if you don't have groceries. Right. There's something about being sacrificial that might not be this percentage. but there is something powerful about starting every check with this part is for others. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. And I'm with Rachel. I will transform how you move throughout the world. Yeah. And I think to the money journey that everyone's on, which is more of a marathon than a sprint.

27:59This is all not, you know, you don't just, you know, do things with money for two years and you're fine the rest of your life. It is an ongoing daily decision of what you choose to do. And as you earn more and as you guys get out of debt, James, and as you guys invest and you really do start to build wealth, because that's mathematically what's going to start to happen. We always say, Dave always says it, but it's so true. You know, money is a magnifying glass. It makes you more of what you already are. And if you can create habits now when you don't feel like you guys have a lot or you have this big goal that is so noble and so great, but you still are doing things that are changing who you are, what is being formed today is the James that's going to be carried through the wealth building.

28:39And there's a challenge there. I mean, I think there's something really beautiful to say that, that of like, man, you know, we could get out of debt, you know, I mean, honestly, what, two or three months faster, maybe if we didn't get, you know, you could, but at the end of the day, the change that happens within you guys as you are giving and you're sacrificing is worth maybe that two to three months of being in debt longer, because it's changing who you are that's going to carry you through this entire journey of money. James, can I give you an exercise I would love you to do with your wife?

29:07Sure. I want y 'all to go away this weekend and y 'all are in baby step two, so don't go spend a jillion dollars. But after Thanksgiving, if y 'all have a chance to get away with just two of you, maybe it's an hour, maybe it's three hours or whatever. Go for a walk, go for a hike, sit in front of the fire, whatever. Come up with five to 10 we are statements. So let's pretend your last name is Smith. the Smiths are people who and let those values frame your action steps not the other way around because so many of us live when I get X, Y, or Z then I'll become and what you find is that's not how the world works but we the Smiths are people who are generous period well that's going to frame everything the Smiths are people who value a relationship with God that's going to frame it the Smiths are people who always invite people over to their house.

29:59When you have millions of dollars in the bank, that just means your table will be way bigger. You get what I'm saying? That makes a lot of sense. But if you try to go through life plan first and identity later, that's a recipe for this year I'm going to lose 40 pounds or whatever. You're never going to stick to that. If you wake up January 1 of 2026 and say, this year I'm going to be a person who is a good steward of his body. Well, that's going to frame how you sleep, how you take days off, how hard you exercise, how you exercise when you're tired, because I'm a guy who takes care of his body.

30:35What was the book about how? It was James Clear. James Clear, that's right. I was going to say, there's something about that identity that he talked about. Yeah. Most people try to go into life change with habits first. I'm going to wake up every day, 45 minutes, and always you run out of gas on that. But if you start with, I'm a person who, or we are a family who, then you have people over when you're tired. You have, you give money when you don't feel like you've got enough that month and you're like, you know what we can do without, um, ice cream or we can do without tipping or we can do without, it just changes who you are.

31:05So get together and come up with those identity statements and then reverse engineer the action steps that are going to back up your new identity.

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32:42The all new EveryDollar is here and now it's way more than just our world class budgeting app. There's so many advanced features that make winning with money and your progress to actually see you win with money so much faster. The average person finds thousands of dollars of margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Oren in Maryland. Hey, welcome to the show. Thank you. Absolutely. How can we help today? So I am basically a college student. I am currently going to community college. Good for you.

33:21Did not go with the four-year because it was just too much. So right now my situation, I'm about halfway done. I definitely did not apply myself to scholarships like I should have. And I took a semester break just to work and just to kind of, you know, absorb and try to reach out for resources. So I'll be going to school for an extra year. But I did find a lot of resources, a lot of scholarships. I talked to a lot of people. Um, I'm currently about$12 ,000 in debt. And then obviously if I were to continue, I have about 27 more credits. We're talking about$200 a credit. Um, so my question for you is, is that should I pay cash because I'm currently working, um, part-time should I pay cash?

34:06I have the money to pay for a semester now. Should I pay cash for the semester and don't worry about it? Um, or should I kind of, I know you guys hate this term, but live a little, um, We don't hate that term. I know, I know. Have you met Rachel Cruz? She lives a lot. We love to live in the right order financially, though. So that's the only caveat. So, I mean, yeah, if you have the cash to pay for the semester 100%, that's what I would do. And if you didn't, then I would tell you to pause like you have in the past and start to just work your way through. It'll take you longer, but at least you're doing it cash flowing it.

34:48um okay so no i would be um no i yeah i i would definitely be putting that money and i think you have a lot of life to live and you're gonna live better yes and even more wonderfully you know once you like have a job and have an income and no debt and you're like oh great i get to go on like really awesome stuff now again it doesn't mean you do nothing you can still enjoy life What do you think living it up is or living a little is? I mean, like my brother always say, like, live simple. I mean, he like, you know, we're all into kayaking. We love kayaking. I live in the country. We love kayaking in the river.

35:24We all own kayaks, you know. So, you know, in the summertime, we all love to go kayaking. I'm huge into bowling. I love bowling. I already have all my equipment. So, like, going out, doing stuff like that, maybe going out to the beach during, like, a random weekend, two-day trip. Yeah. So that's kind of like what I mean by like live a little. How old are you? 20 years old. Okay. All the things you just said are either quasi free or especially in your situation, you've already bought all your gear is free. That's number one. Yeah. Okay. So you can always just go run out into the water or you can take your kayak and go on the water or you can go throw the big heavy ball at the pins whenever you want minus lane fees.

36:02Okay. So that's already solved. The other thing is it sounds like you're not fighting that reality. You're fighting an ethos. okay you're fighting this idea that other people have it better than you do and let me feel jealous in that way but i i definitely like okay it's it's not it's not the actual things that are happening it's this older brother who's like bro you need to be and you you started this call by apologizing twice okay with kind of like your head down as though you've already lost something and dude i'm telling you you're not even at the starting line of the race yet, which is awesome.

36:39Yeah. If you will invest in one person and that's you for the next five to 10 years, you will have no idea what quote unquote living a little looks like, like to Rachel's point. Okay. If you pay cash and get out of school and go put your nose, like I, you should have more than a part-time job right now. That's what I'm saying. You should have a full-time job. Currently because I'm in college. I know, dude, but I had a full-time job and two kids, and I got a Ph.D. at night and on weekends. You can do it. Okay, so the counselor's telling me at college, you should only work a certain amount of hours a week.

37:19That's kind of BS in a sense. I'm not going to put that onto the counselor. Yeah, come on, John. Blame the counselor. Okay, yes. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Okay, so here's the deal. You're in community college, work full-time, get another part-time job, and get done with your school. and there's always Saturday mornings, Sunday evenings, you can go knock out the stuff. You're right. Now, what is your brother doing professionally? Actually, I might have kind of – No, you said he lives simple. Yeah, he does. I think John got – yeah, he's chill. He followed your guys' program. He actually introduced me to the Dave Ramsey program.

37:57He has everything paid off except for his house. And what do I mean by what I was telling you earlier? So he's into kayaking. He already bought a kayak previously. Okay. He loves going hiking. So he already has all of his hiking gear. That's the stuff he'd, he has the most fun by spending the less. Ah, okay. So he's like a good model in that way. Okay. So he's a good model in that way. My bad. Okay. Yes. You're good. You're good. How much older is he than you? 27. So he's seven years older. Okay. So it's very common that people are graduating high school, graduating college, and they want to move into the house the same size as their parents' house that they just moved out of.

38:30Yeah. They want to drive the car that their mom and dad drove them around to school in. and that's unrealistic expectations so your brother has a seven-year head start on you where he lived very frugally found love and going out in nature very inexpensive activities on the whole now i'm in the middle of hunting season and i figured out a way to make that very obnoxiously expensive right but he's doing it the right way and he's just got almost a decade head start on you yeah so put your head down work really hard and i bet he would be a great one to be able to relate to you though to say yeah you're 20 you don't need that stuff i mean i bet like you know his uh his story should be one i've been kayaking with people who have fancy kayaks fancy stuff and i've got the rented one that's 15 and it's on it's uncomfortable it's annoying is a kayak you know it's not rachel for 40 bucks yeah exactly right it's great but but but listen if you will yeah write a letter to 50 year old you okay it's a letter of gratitude for here's the things i'm going to do for the next six to seven years with my head down, working my butt off so that 50-year-old you has the life that you want to live.

39:4140-year-old, 50 may be too long. 40-year-old you, 35-year-old you. But dude, I want you to put some money in the bank. Don't take debt off the table. I'm a guy who never borrows money, period. Establish that at 20. I drive a 1990 Dodge truck. There you go. That's what's up. Hey, is the$12 ,000 of debt student loans? Is that what that is? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so that was – so when my first half of college, I signed up for FAFSA, which is a student loan. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, true. And they were like – Here's money. Basically, they'll basically say, hey, we'll give you$500 for the semester for books. We'll give you$500 here and there.

40:17You know, we'll give you all this money. But the catch is you've got to pay like 8 % interest once you graduate. The day you graduate, they start charging you. I know. It's terrible. I can get out of it, but I would pay everything cash. And that's – I really want to because I don't want to be a CSI. So, yes, I think it's that. So I think you have a couple of goals tactically is I want you to do a written budget. I want you to pretend that you do have two jobs, like what John said. What if you had the income you have coming in and an extra job? How much money will be there? How much money do you need to save per month to make sure you cash flow the next starting in August, right?

40:51Because you have enough money to cash flow the spring semester coming up. Yeah. So how much do you need to save between now and August to make sure you cash flow the fall semester or summer classes whenever you're going to do it. And then from there, you're going to be able to see, okay, perfect. That's how much I need to save. That's priority. How much is food? How much is gas? How much is my rent? Like go ahead and list out all your expenses and then get to the bottom and say, okay, how much is left? And to John's point, everything you just talked about, whether it's bowling or kayaking, it's not going to cost a ton, but if you had, I don't know, I'm just going to guess an extra hundred bucks a month or something to be able to enjoy, to be able to go do some of these things, then that's going to feel great.

41:29So I feel like there's a part of me that says you can probably do both. I don't think it has to be this extreme case of all or nothing, but you have to make sure it's at least in priority. You want to make sure that the school is taken care of because I don't want you going deeper than this$12 ,000. And then when you graduate, yes, those bills start coming and that's when you're going to start attacking those. But I would not worry about the past student loans until you're out of school. My number one focus would be to get through the rest of the school without taking on any more loans. And then anything extra you can have fun with, but making sure that that is covered first and foremost.

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43:52welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm rachel cruz with dr john deloney and we are answering your questions all right we have mike in ann arbor hi mike Mike, welcome to the show. Hello. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today? Yes. I've got, I think, a rather unique situation. Okay. But my sister, so I'm one of three children. I'm the middle child. My older sister is going through a divorce, which is a terrible situation, of course. She's got three kids. Her eldest, I think, is about three years away from starting college. Okay. And previously, like my sister, all three of her kids were attending private schools.

44:34Her and her husband driving luxury vehicles, fancy vacations, living extremely well. And no judgment there. That's fantastic. I'm happy for them. But it appears from an outsider that they had a very high burn rate. Recently, we've discovered, as there's kind of the discovery process going to, figuring out how the divorce is going to play out, that they have under$50 ,000 in savings, and that includes retirement accounts. Oh, wow. Okay. So my sister is expecting to buy her husband out of their current home and her dental practice, and she needs$800 ,000 to do that. She doesn't have$800 ,000. How is she expecting to do this?

45:14Great question. So she reached out to me, and it turns out she had reached out initially to my parents, and they had agreed to provide her with$400 ,000. Oh, my gosh. Do they have that money? They do in their retirement. They're retired, but it's their nest egg. Are they multi-multi-millionaires? Yeah, how much money do they have, your parents? It's a great question. I don't know the number, but it's... Okay, did it feel like that's a significant part of their retirement, like a fourth or a third, or is it like, oh no, that's just like... No, 400 they wouldn't miss. Okay, okay. They'd be our...

45:49Dang, Gina. That's great. I would. I'd miss it a lot. A lot. I would, too. Definitely. And so my sister then reached out to me and asked if my husband and I had an extra$400 ,000 she could borrow. And we're pretty good with money. So we wouldn't have$400 ,000 sitting, getting destroyed by inflation. So, I mean, I told her that, you know, without selling one of our properties, we wouldn't be able to get her to$400 ,000. But, you know, we'd still be willing to help. And then she called me back and told me, don't worry about it. She can make other arrangements. So I spoke with my parents. And it turns out they're the other arrangements.

46:32Oh, no. They're going to give her the full$800? Full$800. So they claim that she's overleveraged on debt and she can't get a loan from a bank. She's got a mortgage. So we're going to let her go almost a million dollars in debt to us. Awesome. Great plan. Well, I don't even know. Is it going to be a loan or is it going to be a gift? at this point. I'm not so sure. Okay. Okay. But my parents have this parental guilt. They feel that she's a victim of the situation. She trusted her husband to manage finances. This is where I disagree a bit on the point. We're with you, Mike. Yeah, I'm with you. It's trust but verify at this point.

47:09You're an adult. Yep. And then they also want assurances that in the event that she were to get back to together with her soon-to-be ex-husband, they would want all of this money back immediately. Okay. All the strings attached. Don't, don't, don't, don't. Yeah, all this is a horrible idea. What can we do to help, Mike? I totally understand. So from my perspective, and first of all, I want to know if I'm crazy, but my perspective is my parents have worked hard and lived frugally their whole lives. They've provided us with fantastic childhoods. They paid for our college. I want them to enjoy their retirement and spend their money on what brings them joy.

47:43Yeah, but you can't control that, Mike. You don't get a vote in my house. Yeah, that's what they're choosing to do. Are they asking your opinion at all? I gave it to them because I also happened to be the executor of their will. Nice. Nice. That's fair. And we have similar financial behaviors. I mean, we're in similar situations. All right. But here's the brass tacks. Let's say 100 % and Rachel and I take these calls. So it does happen that your sister was lied to, manipulated, and just got hit by a steamroller with this divorce. the financial position. She had no idea. She thought everything was different and bam.

48:25Okay. There is that mess. And in my world, we say not by her hand, but in her lap. She didn't cause this and boom, here it is. That doesn't give license to avoid reality moving forward. And what does that mean? That means she can't afford the house she lives in. She can't afford to buy a dental practice as much as she wants to own one. It's a, because I got screwed, I'm now owed X, Y, or Z. And that's how our country is in almost$40 trillion worth of debt. That's how student loan debt is almost$2 trillion. Credit card debt set an all-time route. I didn't get this, so I deserve to go to the college I want to.

49:09I deserve to have this. I I deserve to have this program or that. And her world blew up. And it sounds like her world before it blew up, she never was told no either. Right. Right. She never has had to rational. Face reality. Yeah. Of, oh, there's not enough money here. My kids can't go to the school I want them to go to. There's not enough money to buy a car that I really want to buy. So I'm going to choose a different one. You know, it sounds like her conditioning for years and years and years has been, I kind of get what I want and we're going to use debt for it. because that's exactly what the savings show.

49:40They have no money saved. They've put nothing away. They've spent everything or more. And so for her to want these things, to me, it's pretty obvious. I understand why she does because she doesn't have another way of thinking. Well, and we all want our kids to go to the best schools on the planet. We all want fancy cars, big houses. We all want that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then your parents, to a degree, enabling that by continuing to just, you know, fund a little bit of her not facing reality to what you're saying. Not a little bit, a million dollars worth of it. A million dollars worth of it.

50:08It's true. Here's the way to have this conversation with your dad. It's not about money. It's a, because he's going to say, I have it. It's my money. I can do what I want. And he's right on all counts. And he can, yeah. He is guaranteeing by his participation in this, in your sister's pain, not just sitting with her in the pain and saying, this is awful. He's participating in guaranteeing that there will be a, there will be a rift in their relationship forever. and after him and your mom pass that rift will get passed to you guys his other kids guaranteed because when he gives her eight hundred thousand dollars and she shows up in a new car his first instinct is going to be why did she pay me back or why where'd she get that money to buy that car yeah that was supposed to go to the house and that was supposed to go to this and what about that and and then when this guy comes back a year later which happens a lot and realizes his life's awful and wants her back and sees her thriving practice and she's going to be like oh well it is the father of our kids and then and in a wonderful way it's just going to blow things up you know the marriage is if that's the case and the marriage is redeemed in a healthy way that's an applause yeah but there's an 800 000 price tag now there's a million dollars you know what i mean that gets that gets dragged in the middle of that into a beautiful redemption story so i'm like all the way around it's not it's not wise but mike what sucks about your position is you have no control.

51:31You really don't. Like he's going to, they're going to do what they're going to do and you can say everything you want to say, say it in the way you think he's going to, all the things and at the end of the day, they're going to choose and then you're going to have to, you're going to have to deal with yourself in that decision, whether it is pain and sadness and feeling like that's unfair to you and your other sibling. I mean, whatever it is, that's going to be yours to carry from then on out. Is it normal for her to call you and ask for money? I'm sorry? Is it, like her calling you and asking for money, that just, after asking mom and dad and then asking you and your wife, that feels like a level of desperation of someone who's scared that their life is unraveling.

52:08And sometimes the greatest gift is to let it all the way unravel and sit with somebody in the ash.

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53:38Well, it's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing our special giving edition of The Ramsey Show. It's one of our favorite shows that we do all year. And we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season. So maybe you've tipped a waiter or waitress like a ton and you have an awesome story around that. Maybe you've bought someone Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe you bought someone a car, whatever it looks like. But outrageous generosity. We want to hear from you. Or maybe you were on the receiving end of a very generous gift. And then those are always obviously as wonderful.

54:13So we want to hear from you again, whether you have been the giver or have been given to, we want to hear. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash ask and put giving in the subject line. And we do this. Gosh, we do it once a year, always around Christmas time. It's one of the most popular shows that we do. We always get so many listens because it's just, it's kind of like faith in humanity. You see the good that's being done. And can I tell you, now that you've just read this, this, this like promo, like we're doing this. Yeah. It reminds me like back in 2007 or 2008, I was a part of this. It was like a men's group that met on Monday mornings.

54:50And there was a guy there. He's a general counsel. His name was Slate. And he was an attorney. He was one of the greatest men I've ever met. every Monday morning, he would go around the table and ask us, what's one nice thing you all did for your wives last week? The number of times I'm a new married guy, Sunday night, I did a nice thing so that I could say something Monday morning. Okay. That sounded cheap. And it sounded like not in the spirit of to this day, Sunday nights, I still look around. Can I go fill my wife's car up with gas? Can I help with laundry before school, whatever. And so if you haven't done anything outrageously generous, go do it just so you can call in.

55:30You know what? That's a great. But it's about, but it's about the practice and you start, you will feel how good it feels and you'll be more likely to do it again. So if you haven't done something outrageously generous, let this be the call to go do a thing and then write in and tell us. And then while you're doing that thing, keep your eyes open, bring your kids with you, let them be involved with it. And it will transform obviously somebody else's life, but it will transform your life and hopefully inspire you to give more throughout the year. I love it. So good. Yep. So that show is coming up December 18th.

55:57So again, start sending in your stories because we do want to celebrate living like no one else. So later you get to live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Houston. And we have CJ on the line. Hi, CJ. How are you doing, Ms. Rachel? We are doing great. You got another Houston. H-Tone. Houston. What were you, a resident of Houston, I guess? I don't know, next to me. Oh my gosh, you're not a resident of Houston. You're from there. You know what I'm saying, CJ? You get it. From Houston. Yeah, I get it. All right, CJ, how can we help? Hi, I'm currently 60K in debt. I'm currently 22 years old.

56:34I'm a college student, and I work full-time as well. 30K, about 25K of it is a co-sign. This was before I started listening to the show. I co-signed a car for my mom that she had totaled. She totaled out her previous car, and she wasn't able to get a car. Oh, yeah. I'm the only one of her children that has a great credit score and a really, well, financially stable in their eyes. But I feel like I'm drowning. Has she stopped paying on that$25 ,000 or are you picking that up? No, no, no. She's paying on it. I'm making sure she's paying on it every month. I'm currently putting her to— But you're on the hook for it is what you're saying still, which, yep.

57:19Yeah. I get that. That just makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just makes me uncomfortable. Totally. What's the rest of the$35 ,000? Is it student loans? I have$10 ,000 in student loans. Okay. And I'm going to cash flow the rest of my time. I'm currently in community college. I have like a semester left. Good for you. I'm going to be going to either UTSA or another college for cybersecurity. Okay, good for you. And then what's the other$25 ,000? 20 of it is my car. And then the other, I might be wrong, but I have like 7KM credit card debt that I'm currently paying on. That's my baby step one.

58:06CJ, what kind of car are you driving around? I have a 2021 Honda Accord. Not for long. If you sold it private party. Great car. I know it is. But listen, I drove all over Houston. I'm a 6 '2", 200-pound guy. I drove all over Houston in an 88 Tercel EZ hatchback and moved up to a Corolla. Was it great? No. I'm 6 '7". I'm 6 '7". The Honda is the only car that has no space. You can't get in your hatchback. Man. I'm making it fit. Okay, CJ, though, we can find a bigger car for less than 20. You had to say I'm 6 '7". We do have to. Oh, no. You can't fit in a Honda. That's what my kids do. 6 '7". 6 '7".

58:56Push it all the way back, the last setting in the car. You got to take the back seat out of that thing. All right, good for you. How much money are you making, CJ? I'm making$21.55, and we're getting a raise in about a month. How much are you bringing home a month? What's hitting your bank account each month? About$3 ,500 on the low end. but I have opportunities to work. Like right now it's slow, but next year, when the year starts, we're going to have plenty of overtime. Great. Okay. Awesome. And I currently have 5 ,000 in my savings. And I know we're supposed to have 1 ,000, but me and my family have went through a lot.

59:34So mentally, I just can't. Yeah, you're nervous. Yeah, it freaks you out a little bit. Yeah, more than a little bit. Sure. I currently am talking to a therapist. I have anxiety and depression. So the anxiety comes from stability. When I don't feel stable, it's just my world rocks. Trust me, dude, if you will make this a madhouse priority to get this debt out of your life, I've been right where you are, dude. Right there. Oh, trust me. I'm on the way to. And listen, but you got to hear me. Getting rid of that$4 ,000 of safety. I got you. But listen, on the other side of paying all this debt off, you're going to sleep like you have never slept in your life I promise because I've walked those same shoes I know but I just can't get rid of the safety blanket of that 4 ,000 I'm with you on that you do what you want to do I'm just saying the whole get out of debt thing the whole idea you're going to have peace in the way that you probably have you work in overtime, you go into school you do all this stuff, it is worth it so what I would do CJ if I were you because you're right on that cusp of that$20 ,000 car, okay, from a mathematical standpoint, regardless of height and all the things.

1:00:47So just, I mean, unless you're working overtime, can you afford this car? Because our rule of thumb is if you can't pay the car off in 12 to 18 months and or it's more than 50 % of your annual take-home pay, you have too much car. And you're right there, CJ. So, I mean, I just want you to just look, just look, run some numbers and just say, okay, what if I did sell it private party? Because it probably is holding its value pretty well. It's a great car. So you may be able to actually, I mean, depending on when you bought it and how all of it's, you may be one of those rare cases that you actually may, you know, be able to sell it for a little bit more than what you owe, or you may be a little underwater.

1:01:24And then I want you to look around, CJ. I'm a little underwater. I did a little bit of numbers. It's worth 18. Okay, perfect. Is that private sale or is that trade-in? That's private sale. Okay, okay. So CJ. Trade-in was about the same thing, but I think I could get a little bit more for it. Okay, so again, I want you to just run the numbers that if you were underwater$2 ,000, I want you to look around and just do some research on a$5 ,000 car, okay? Just pretend, and maybe you find another older Honda Accord, and you're like, okay, great. I can get a crappier car, and that means you have$7 ,000 you owe versus$20 ,000, which is going to fast forward this whole debt payoff so much faster so that you don't have to work overtime much longer, right?

1:02:06So again, it's a give-and-take situation. That car is right on the cusp of being able to keep it and paying it off. It's just going to be a longer get out of debt process. So what I want you to do, so priority number one is I want you to stay current on all of your payments. Stay current on everything. The second priority since you're in school is I want you to make sure you're cash flowing that last semester. So save up enough to make sure that that is covered. Once that's done. I'm planning on cash flowing with the rest of the school. Yes, that's great. Yep, so is making sure that that is true because I don't want you to go into any more debt.

1:02:40And then I want you to start working off paying out that$7 ,000 in credit card debt. So if you have multiple cards, start with the smallest, even if it's an$800 bill on one of the cards, whatever it is, cut everything up and start working your way through the debt snowball, which is paying the smallest debt off first. It's gonna be some of the credit cards. And then your student loans won't hit till after you graduate. And then that car is gonna be your second big one. So that's gonna decide, hey, do I wanna keep it? Is it worth working all this extra? And you'll get to decide that. But CJ, we're so proud of you.

1:03:08You're changing completely your family tree and we are here for you.

1:03:24I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right? If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying going to figure out how am I going to afford childcare?

1:04:01How do I, how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like, and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to eat next week? Yeah. In the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

1:04:31Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. It costs those stinking pizza. It really is. So that is one thing to do to say, I love you to your family. So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

1:05:02To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to Xander.com.

1:05:33up next we have lee in omaha nebraska hi lee welcome to the show hello thanks for taking my call absolutely how can we help uh i'm 65 retired and i have about 1.8 million in a Traditional Roth IRA and about$400 ,000 in a Roth. As I look ahead to the required minimum disbursements, it's kind of a lot. Yeah, not making you feel great. So the last couple of years, I've moved$100 ,000 each year from the traditional to the Roth. Good. Would I be better off to keep doing that that way? or should I just take the pain, say maybe move a million and be done with the pain or just put it along at$100 ,000?

1:06:23What other money do you have? Do you have the cash to do that?

1:06:29To pay the taxes? To pay the taxes on it would have to come out of the account behind it, yeah. I don't have. Okay, so you'd be paying, yeah, so you don't have the cash for it. I've got to prock me$100 ,000 in the bank, you know, but yeah. Right. Yeah. If you don't have the cash to be paying the taxes, I would not take money out of the account just to pay the taxes. If you can do it, but you, yeah. Do you have any income coming in besides your investments? Yeah, just Social Security. Yeah. How much is that a month? Social Security is about, oh,$2 ,300 a month. Okay. And are you living off of money in the Roth or the traditional?

1:07:12I am. I'm between Social Security and it's about$7 ,000 a month. Total, I'm living on a month. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, kind of our rule of thumb is if you don't have the cash to pay the taxes. And if this is all you have, if there was a lot of money that you were going to have, The great thing about a Roth is, you know, not only are you not paying taxes on the growth, but when you pass it to your children, they're not going to pay taxes either. So it just like becomes even, you know, a bigger pass down, which is such an advantage. That's why we are such a fan of the Roth. But again, having to pay the taxes on it each time, that's what's going to be key.

1:07:56And I'd hate to use your retirement investing to pay the taxes on something that's already invested. But how much are you having to take out every single year? How much is that? They're required. Oh, it gets up there in the, you know, three, four thousand a year. I got to take out if I live long enough. Yeah. Do you know how quickly that's going to be? Yes. No, you don't have to take out three hundred thousand dollars a year out of your one point eight. Oh, you get to be late eighties. it gets pretty high according to the form the man gave me of what it is with all the growth i'm not sure i'm making right now i'm my money's making about 12 to 14 percent you know thereabouts yeah give or take yeah so you know i keep it's on the grow or you know i yeah i'm out over my skis on this mathematically um but that number doesn't sound right but i could be out to lunch on it.

1:08:55Yeah, I know. It's that that that required. It's a weird. It's a weird formula when you look at it. And so I don't I don't I yeah, I can't do it right now. So yeah, what I would say, Lee, is unless you had the cash to be able to pay the taxes because you had money saved elsewhere, that would be an automatic yes for me. But you could look to see, OK, if I if I rolled over how much from where you are in the tax bracket, how much would that would I pay in taxes if I took it out and that would come out of my investments versus if I left everything in and had to start pulling money out and pay taxes on that, you know, which you're going to have to pay anyways, when they make you, you know, take it out.

1:09:35I would run some of those numbers and I would sit down with a smart investor pro as well because I would want this to be the most mathematical efficient for you, but usually converting to a Roth if you don't have the cash on hand, that's usually a sticking point. All right, let's go to Alex in Toronto. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Hi. How are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? My quick question, hopefully quick question is, can we afford to travel? So we live in Canada. We want to go to Spain for my friend's wedding in May. That's fine. And my wife and I were just wondering if we can afford it.

1:10:12Dude, my friend got married at Arby's, man. Your friends get married in spain that's awesome well they live there it's my best friend from from like he's international alex has friends all over the world john that's true you got you got cooler friends than me okay so uh alex where are you guys at financially so um i make about 150 000 canadian a year okay uh we don't have any debt other than our home we owe to in our home about 463 000 Okay. How much does your wife make? Does she work? She doesn't work. She's a homemaker. Okay. Wonderful. Do you guys have money saved? Do you have an emergency fund?

1:10:51We have a small emergency fund of about$9 ,000. Our expenses are about$4 ,000 to$5 ,000 a month. Okay. I have a pension with my current work that I contribute towards and my employer matches. about 20 % goes towards that pension. Then I have a retirement plan that came from another job that I had in the past that I took with me. There's about a hundred grand there. Okay. Do you guys have kids, Alex? We do. Okay. How many kids do you guys have? Two kids. Eight and six. Okay. How much will this trip cost total? Total, I'm expecting around 5 ,000. Okay. Do you guys have$5 ,000 to spare? You don't have a great emergency fund, so I would want you to bump up that emergency fund to at least three months of expenses.

1:11:44Yeah. So for the last, sorry, for the last two years, we've been saving money, putting money aside. I was investing on my own, but then realizing that my pension is pretty good, that I shouldn't be, I mean, I don't know, that's up to, you're the expert. So do I continue putting towards another investment, like retirement thing on the side, or do I just stick with my pension that I currently have? Yeah, so the investing is a little different in Canada, but I can tell you from here, we would always say that 15 % of your income needs to go into retirement. And your pension would be considered, I would cut that percentage in half.

1:12:20So how much, what percentage is going into the pension? So my estimate is around 20%. Okay. So what I would say is that would be quote unquote 10%. So I'd be saving 5 % more somewhere else. and again the the Canadian you know retirement you'll have to look to see what's probably the better option but I would put five percent of your income into that so I'd have the pension at the at the 20 percent and then I would put five percent somewhere else because the reason we say the pension it is included in that 15 but it's half is because it is still a great place to put your retirement but you have no control over it and so that's what it's always a little bit like, so again, 5 % somewhere else.

1:13:02But yeah, if you guys can cash flow this, this trip to Spain, I mean, I would make it a goal to get your emergency fund up, I would be putting some money away there. But yeah, if you guys have the ability to cash flow it, and again, cash flow, and it not stress y 'all out. Yeah, you have no debt. I mean, you guys are saving, you're doing great. So I would say, yeah, I'd be okay with it. Okay, hopefully my wife can listen to this now and then I don't know John would you go yeah John's a little bit more not as yeah no I would go but um here's where I would fall short the moment I deviate from a plan right like if I'm trying to accomplish an exercise goal the the one morning I don't I don't keep my word to myself I'm off it for the next four months and so the only thing giving me pause here is how low the fact that you got kids and how low your emergency fund is and you are one kid doing one fun thing in the front yard from burning through that$9 ,000 in no time and if you do choose to go to this wedding it can't be well we've done it once and now we can do it again and now we can go ahead and get this car and now we can go ahead and get this other thing it would have to be such an anomaly and it'd have to be different than I'm able to do right now.

1:14:23Yeah, no, I totally get that. Last time we traveled like that was two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like a constant thing that we do every year. And it may be a thing that like only you go. And it would be cool to take your wife to Spain and then celebrate a wedding, whatever, but we can only afford, it only makes sense for us financially for one of us to go. So those are some more variables you can throw out there. Yeah, and your wife might be more okay with it if she knows there's more money saved, there may be more security knowing, okay, we have some, we have good money, you know, money saved.

1:14:53Okay. I can take a breath and go on this trip, but yeah, you got to figure out how to get this emergency funded and the trip. If you can do both. That's great.

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1:16:56The countdown to Christmas is on, and we have a ton of great deals for you guys for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus, we're dropping a special one-day sale on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So we're talking about hardcover books, audiobooks, assessments, some as low as$3.99. So don't miss out. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store. or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. All right, let's go to Ricardo in San Diego. Hey, Ricardo. Hey, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help today? I had a question and kind of wanted to give you a little summary about my life and see if you can help me out with it.

1:17:40I wrote it all down, kind of just compacted in a quick summary for us. Perfect. All right. So I'll start by saying I'm 28 and I'm calling from San Diego. I live in a rental home with my family, my two-year-old son and my soon-to-be wife. Living together is the only way to make San Diego affordable and every rent payment gets us one step closer to actual homeownership. We all share expenses, so support each other and we're working towards building something stable for our future. currently I work two jobs Monday through Friday I'm an HVAC a career I switched into after a 10th month training program because I wanted long-term stability for my family on Fridays and Saturdays I work in a restaurant I used to have more hours there but it's slow season so I learned that I had to lean more into the HVAC to grow and stay consistent financially I still work there in the restaurant.

1:18:35Don't get me wrong. I bring home about around$3 ,650 to about$4 ,200 a month after taxes, depending on my tips also at the restaurant job. And I follow Dave Ramsey's like baby steps. I've saved$7 ,000 towards my emergency fund budgeting and trying to use the EveryDollar app and cutting back where I can. And I'm working on paying off a$29 ,000 car loan that I just got because I needed to be mobile in order to get me around. And the car I had before broke down on me, and it actually got totaled, and I got an accident in it. Right now, my student loans are also in administrative for parents. So interest is still piling up on them, but I'm staying focused and attacking them with a dead snowball.

1:19:23Yeah, get right to your question, brother. Get right to your question. Yeah, yeah. Sure. so my question is what do i do as of right now even though it's tough supporting my son my friends my family dealing with the high rent juggling two jobs and managing debt i'm trying to stay committed and every sacrifice is about giving my son security helping my family in and providing that with this plan teamwork um the thing is that i recently had to go to the hospital So I have a ruptured eardrum. So it's very hard for me right now to see if what's going to go next in my life because they're thinking I'm going to need surgery.

1:20:01So I'm thinking I just put all this time into this career I'm trying to build. And now I'm thinking, can I even go back to it because I'm going to be around loud noises and everything and high elevation. OK, well, on that end of it. Yeah, you will have to figure out is that is that feasible? I don't know what that looks like. I don't know if there's protective earwear you can wear that helps you. Because if you're able to stay, I think, within the industry that you have is great because you can only move up from there. But is 4K sustainable, Ricardo, per month for you? As of right now, because I have my family living under the same home, it is sustainable.

1:20:42And it's the sacrifice I have to make because I make$20 an hour in the HVAC job. And then I make$17.25 plus tips in the restaurant job. So it's just more about getting my experience because I have no experience. I just have. Yeah. How quickly for the HVAC will you be able to start upping income? Is there an income track that you can see? Yeah. Yeah, there is. And as of right now, when I talk to my teachers and I also talk to my bosses at work, it's between like the one to two year mark. It's because I have to get that experience and I have the knowledge. That's great. OK, so, Ricardo, I hate to say it.

1:21:22You can't afford a thirty thousand dollar car. Yeah, you can sell your car today. That's too high. Yeah. So you can still find a great ten thousand dollar car that will not break down. We had a guy on the show last week doing a debt-free scream, and he's driving a$4 ,000 car around. And he's like, listen, it's got 200 ,000 miles, but it's been great. It's giving me no trouble. So there still are great cars out there that are older that will not break down like what you experienced. So I would first and foremost, yeah, put that car. Have you looked at Kelly Blue Book that if you sold at private party, what you would get out of it?

1:21:58So I just recently got a car. It's the 2025 Toyota Camry. Oh, man. You bought a brand new car. And that's the$29 ,000? Yeah, and I'm paying monthly on it. Yeah, yeah. So I would go on Kelly Blue Book and see how much you could sell it for. And you may be underwater because it's brand new, but it won't be too much underwater if it is. So, yeah, that needs to be sold. How much is in your emergency fund? Right now it is about$7 ,000. I'm trying to get it to$10 ,000. Well, hold on. How much do you owe on student loans? on student loans right now i owe about about six thousand okay pay those off today is is it my other question would be is it feasible for me to do that because as of right now since i don't have my ear like i can't hear from my ear i don't know when i will go back to work they haven't told me i don't know if it's going to take months like to get the surgery or to get wait do you have to okay i'm i'm a little i'm a little bit ignorant can you not go can you not do your hvac work with hearing in one ear?

1:23:04It's more of the, I talked to the doctors and they said that I wouldn't be able to do it soon enough. It would take a little bit of time. So I'm not sure what time they're really giving me. Can you flip over and go full time at the restaurant? I can't because it's slow season right now. They just cut everybody. So maybe another one. You don't have an alternative, brother. You got to find another one. Yeah. And I hate that for you. I hate that with all my guts for you. And that's the reality you find yourself in. And maybe it's the season, right? So maybe for the next six months to get you through the spring, you're working two restaurant shifts and having to hold off on the HVAC because of your ear.

1:23:41Or you have to go throw boxes at Walmart at night or whatever you've got to do. Or Amazon driving for holiday season. You know, they usually are picking up tons of drivers. Is your girlfriend working? Yeah, she also works. She works two jobs. We're both hard workers. Yeah, no question about that. No question about that. We're just trying to be strategic with the hard work to kind of figure out. Here's a really uncomfortable question. You live in one of the most, if not the most expensive place in the United States to live. I know that for sure. It's beautiful. It's stunning. Every day is a great day.

1:24:12And there's a mathematical reality. You are working so hard and what you're doing is so honorable, but you picked a place that very few people can afford to live day in and day out. especially seeking the kind of security you're looking for that i hear in your voice what does it look like to pack up and move to texas or pack up to move to kansas i'm being serious because you can't you can't afford to live yeah how you're how you're running it's crazy because i actually made that um i actually try to talk to my soon-to-be wife about that decision too of moving like to arizona or texas just because i know yeah since i'm in my field i am i'll find work out there You will, but here's the deal.

1:24:54It's less than emotional. It will become a very emotional decision, make no mistake. But right now you have a math problem. You don't have a work ethic problem. You don't have a like wanting to love and take care of your soon to be wife and kid and all that. You don't have those problems. You have a math problem. Yeah. And I'm listening to a man who's working himself literally to death and every month is a grind. so you know okay so here's what i would do ricardo as you get off the phone my if i were in your shoes um my goal would be to save um two thousand dollars this month and next month however that looks and then in january i would be putting my car up for sale if you're a little underwater i think what that's going to give you is you'll have you'll keep a thousand dollars in your emergency fund and then you're going to have ten thousand dollars cash you're going to use some of that money to pay the difference, get rid of that, use the remainder to go buy a crappy five, six, $7 ,000 car.

1:25:52Okay. That's going to, that for me, that's step one. That's what you've got to do because this car is killing you. So I would get that out of your life. That's going to free up that car payment. And then you guys can start working on building back and figuring out for medical expenses for the spring. And then from there, you're going to work on paying off the student loans, but that's going to be possibly putting two restaurant jobs together. That's going to be, you know, it's, it may look like moving. I don't know what that looks like, but those would be my steps. Car number one, cash flowing a new car and paying the difference in cash.

1:26:22That would be my number one goal. And then we have to figure out the lifestyle, which is a really, really, really big decision, but it's one that long-term could relieve you guys a lot from the hard work that you're already doing.

1:26:52welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair ones credit union studio i'm rachel cruz with dr john deloney you can give us a call at 888-825-5225 all right starting us off this hour is cynthia in Miami. Hi, Cynthia. Hi, how are you? We are doing great. How can we help? Hi, so I'm calling because to get you guys perspective. So we have a house and we are selling it to clear out all our debt that we've been having, plus the house, because when we bought the house, we didn't do it the right way. We didn't put 20 % down. It was an older home. and now there's like a lot of work that needs to get done so if we are able to sell it we're able to cash out and then we'll have all our debt paid for and we'll be left with 160k around there left over so i just kind of wanted to see what you guys think we should do because we were planning on renting for a little bit so then when we're ready to buy we'll buy the right way and also just making sure we'll have money to fix things.

1:27:58And yeah, so I just kind of wanted to see what you guys think. And also, you know, we'll use that money for investing. Just kind of see what you guys think. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so two questions. One, for you selling this house, because I just want to clarify, yes, 20 % is ideal for a down payment. But we always say if you're a first-time home buyer, 5 % is okay. So I do want to make sure you're not rushing to move out of this house. Is it really drowning you guys financially? Like you're like, we got to get out. Because sometimes people are like, well, we can just sell, wipe out our debt, and we're all okay.

1:28:30But sometimes that doesn't always fix the issue, you know? Yeah. Does that make sense from like a behavior standpoint? Of course, yeah. So it does make sense. We've actually been trying to pay off a lot of debt, like since we've been together for like about five years. And then the thing is that if we keep the house, it will be an additional$25 ,000 because it needs like a roof ASAP. okay ac water heater and when we bought the house the money that we had we fixed it inside it was like a fixer upper kind of house sure okay we didn't do all the major things at first okay gotcha and that and then the payments too much and all the all the expenses that are going to be with it you're like it's just too much for us to handle on our income yes correct so we were just thinking of starting fresh now that we know what we know and we're more you know we're more diligent with our money.

1:29:19So we're like, we'll have a clean slate and we'll move forward. Okay. Yeah. How much consumer debt will you guys pay off with the equity?

1:29:28$199 ,424.91. Oh, wow. What was that in? It was in, well, the house is$153 ,000 and then the car, credit cards, all that. Where are you going to get the$160 ,000 in equity? of selling the house you only owe 150 on it 150 yes okay so you're going to sell it for 330 340 something like that around the 345 yeah 340 yeah are you confident that someone's going to come in and buy a 340 000 house that immediately needs a roof and a hot water heater and all that other stuff is actually yeah they're ready it's already done they put in the offer now oh the in and good to go. Okay, cool. Okay, great. Well, y 'all have great equity.

1:30:17I mean, you did well, whether you're aggressively paying it off or it was just the market, but well done. That's great. Okay, so you're able to pay off the remaining mortgage and then about that$40 ,000-ish of just consumer debt that you have, and then you're going to have $160 left. $160 left or$120 left after you pay your debt off? Probably after, I believe, hold on, let me double check. I think it'll probably be around like 1.30 we might have left over possibly paying the consumer debt. Okay. I know it's like around that. All right. Rachel's going to tell you what to do with that, but I want you to make me a promise in front of all of America who listens to this show.

1:30:56Okay. After you've paid off your consumer debt, this money goes into a high-yield savings account, and you don't touch it for 90 days. I will make that promise. You can't buy anything. No new car, Cynthia. No, we do not want nothing. We're actually paying our car now, so we will have this car for a long time, and we're going to take care of it. I know, but that money is going to burn a hole in your pocket. Y 'all have to, like, I don't know how y 'all do it in your marriage. It's a spit shake contract. Y 'all go outside and etch it into the driveway. Y 'all will not touch this money because it is going to be so, you're going to look up.

1:31:40A cruise is going to look good in December. They're in Miami. A friend is going to get remarried and want you to go to Australia. A buddy is going to have a brand new car that he just has to sell. It's such a great deal. Your husband is going to want to buy crypto. It's just going to happen. Y 'all can't touch this. Otherwise, you're going to sell this house and you're going to find yourself right back in the same situation. I promise you, we've taken this call countless times over the years. Yeah, definitely. That's our goal. I don't want credit cards I don't want none of that If you can't afford it, you can't afford it I'm going to believe you Cynthia I'm a believer I'm trusting you and you're going to get struck by lightning or something like that If you spend the money, okay?

1:32:22No, I've been listening today for a long time Not one penny It goes into a high yield savings account Not until February All your friends are going to be like, oh my gosh, you can get higher rates I know, this is a spiritual exercise for you guys, okay? Yes Okay, cool So we're not touching it until February, March. Yeah. Per John's. Per John. I think that's great. I think that's a great, I think it's a great principled act. I think that's awesome. Okay. So Cynthia, for you guys, month to month, when you go rent somewhere, if you factor in the new rent plus your life, how much do you guys spend a month?

1:32:56How much do you guys need in operating expenses a month? Yeah. So that's actually something we've been working on. So we'll make about like$4 ,700 a month. but they'll range to 47 to five. Okay. And what we'll do is now we factor in the rent and we're also like factoring our groceries. We've been really like - Are y 'all both working, Cynthia? Yeah, we both own a business together. So we're both, yeah, we both run it together. How's the business going? Is there an upward trajectory of it? Okay. Yeah, it's going good. Because around, you know, I mean, you guys are 60K-ish in Miami. It's not a ton.

1:33:33It's an expensive area. Yeah. So it's good. It's okay. We're not like in Miami. We're around that area. So doable for you guys. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. Yes. Especially since we're cutting off all our expense, like those bills, like those credit cards, we're really just, well, our goal is to pay the rent. We'll get our groceries, pay the essential bills, and then all that money will be able to start saving. Do you all have kids? We do. We have two kids. Okay, great. Okay, so what I would do for y 'all is probably more of a six-month emergency fund, which will be about$25 ,000. So I would earmark, you know, around$30 ,000 of that, of your new money, just for an emergency fund that you're never going to touch unless you need it.

1:34:16And that leaves about$100 ,000. So I would make that my baby step 3B, because you guys will have no consumer debt, you'll have a fully funded emergency fund. And then I think the next step is getting into a home. Now you guys can start doing retirement. Do y 'all have like a SEP or do y 'all have any kind of thing within your business, a simple IRA? Yeah, we actually have a Roth IRA we've been investing to for a long time already. Okay, so depending on how quickly you guys want to be back into homeownership, would be if I, so I would either have that$100 ,000 and then start saving on top of that for a down payment.

1:34:53And then if you're not going to buy a home within, I would say probably three years, I would start investing as well, 15 % of my income into retirement. But if you think you could buy a house in around three years with the amount you can save, I probably would hold off retirement until I'm in the house and then fund 15 % of my income into retirement. But if it's going to take longer than three years to buy again, I'd probably go ahead and just do the 15 % into retirement and build on top of that down payment. But those would be my next goals for you guys. So, yeah, excited for you guys for this next season.

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1:36:34So buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So the medium home prices have held steady at around$424 ,000. And in October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means that buyers might have more room to negotiate this winter, which is great if you are looking to buy. Mortgage rates have dipped slightly to 5.49 in October, giving some buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you are ready.

1:37:14So if you are out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund and a down payment for first-time homebuyers at at least 5%, 20 % is wonderful, then you are ready to enter the market. So if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools so you can buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash markets or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to Anthony in Texas. Hey, Anthony, welcome to the show. Hello, guys. How are you doing? We're doing great. How can we help? Good. So my question is more a career question than financial.

1:37:53So I am an apprentice for a utility company here in Texas. I gross around$150 ,000 a year. My wife also works. She grosses around$60 ,000 a year. I'm on the road Monday through Friday, usually about four hours away. I've been working a lot of weekends lately. I have a kid due in February. Congratulations. Thank you for that. But I'm wondering, do I stay here and journey out? And then it's almost like if I journey out, what do I do next? Or do I go ahead and do a career move now and work towards something else? If you journey out, are you going to be able to have a more local gig? Or is that just a commitment to be on the road forever?

1:38:46So you can. There is a chance to be local. But everybody else is trying to go local as well. so it's a competition basically so i couldn't say a month after i journey out i'm gonna be local it's a year well flip that conversation around let me say it this way every single friend of mine in texas who's about my age is talking about the utility boom it's it's it's wild right you know this they're paying you a bunch of money just as an apprentice right um yes and they're paying you to be away from any sort of life whatsoever, right? Yes. And there's a, there's a premium on that, right? Um, the question I would ask myself is if I bit the bullet for another, how close are you to journeyman status?

1:39:34Uh, two more years. That's a long time to be gone seven days a week. Um, here's my question. Is there a possibility that y 'all are able to relocate once you get established? Because you're looking at one of those jobs that everyone in the country is saying people need to start looking for. Yes. So I could relocate, yes. I just did buy a house here. Okay. But in two years, yes, I could relocate if I needed to. Is there a way to not have to work weekends? I'm just, man, it's a tough, that's tough sledding with a brand new baby being gone seven days a week for two years. And I just worked 18 days straight before.

1:40:21So, I mean, there's sometimes I worked longer. Yeah. What would you do if you weren't doing this? Do you know? Honestly, I don't know. That's also a problem I have is I don't know what career path to go. This career path kind of, oh, go ahead. Well, is your wife going to go back to work or is that dependent upon what you're making? she is going to go back to work she said she'll never quit working so what does she do kind of go back to work she's a nurse okay so anytime i feel backed into a corner either i have to do this or i have to do that one of my personal rules of thumb is i throw a bunch of random ideas on the table just to a prove to myself i don't have to do this or that and give myself some breathing room and maybe another idea will emerge.

1:41:11Here's what I mean. Is there a possibility that y 'all go, and you're doing this not for right now, but you're doing this for 10 years from now, y 'all, okay? Is there a possibility that she took a 24-month hiatus from nursing and y 'all put her up in the nicest hotels when you travel? Or are you out in remote, desolate, nowhere, West Odessa where there's, I mean, there's nothing on top of nothing? That's an idea. Could she go to travel nursing and go with you for a season? I'm just saying throw a bunch of ideas on the table because what I'd hate for you to do is to take what every expert is saying is going to be one of the top jobs in the country for the next foreseeable future.

1:41:54And for two years of misery, you let that thing go. And at the same time, man, working 18 days straight with a newborn is really tough. Although I will say, man, I've got buddies who got deployed, right, when their wives were pregnant and they missed the first. I mean, it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. Yeah, so after the two years, the job that you'll have, is that what you want to do, Anthony? Like, do you see yourself being fulfilled in that career? Honestly, probably not. This career kind of just fell in my lap and I took it because it's a great opportunity. Everybody in this area would die for this career.

1:42:35It's just, it just happened to go that way. I just don't know if I want to continue to do it. How old are you? I'm 27. Okay. What'd you do before this? I did insurance. I was like a third party for insurance companies. Yeah, I would, man, I would be tempted to explore. We can give you Ken Coleman's book to look at the work you're wired to do. There's an assessment in the back of it, a career assessment. It's actually amazing. that could even jog to John's point as you're starting to kind of think through other options could maybe, you know, create some ideas of, oh, gosh, I never thought about this or that.

1:43:15Because in a part, I mean, right, in everyone's perfect world, which we're all adults, and it's not always perfect, is that you're doing a job that you love, and that you are passionate about, that you're good at, and you're paid really well, right? Like, that's the ideal world for 37-year-old Anthony, right? In 10 years, like, that's what's ideal. So I want to start moving towards a path to create that. And if this is a job, even though it pays so great and it's such a great opportunity, it doesn't always mean it's great for you. But I also don't want you guys to flounder financially by any means with any of it.

1:43:48Do you guys have a lot of debt? No. So the only debt we have is the mortgage, which is$250 ,000. I was also able to save$80 ,000. so I have$80 ,000 just saved in a savings account because I knew this point was coming so good that might be another question instead of looking at the work instead of looking at the passion at this stage could you and your wife sit down and agree on a number I'm going to do this until we have$150 ,000 or until I have$125 ,000 and while we're doing that I'm going to be in my trailer or in my hotel room on my laptop working like mad to find other work so that when I make this jump, I'm not making this jump into nothing, but I'm making this jump to something.

1:44:37You get what I'm saying? Yes, totally agree. So, and another obstacle, and sorry if we don't have much time, but another obstacle I have is when I journey out, my pay will be significantly higher. It should be about $250 ,000. So I don't want to get attached to the money if I do plan to leave. See what I'm saying? Yeah, but your character as it is right now, I mean, that's not how you're rolling. Because we also talk to people who get this first job, make$120 ,000. Yeah, okay. Can I push back a little bit? Push away, yeah. Okay. But I also don't think they don't need it, though. If y 'all had a ton of debt, Anthony, and no savings, I'd be like, sorry.

1:45:15You got to do whatever you can to get yourselves in a good position. Y 'all are in an awesome position. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to give them a framework for we're all going to be at peace when we cross. and that might be today. Your wife may look at you and say, hey, we have enough now. We're good now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want you home. But find that number that you're like, this feels right once we hit this number to make a transition to maybe something different. And I'll tell you this, if you work for dollars, not for the life that dollars can supposedly give you, meaning if you think you're going to find peace at a dollar amount, you will never catch it.

1:45:48So, but I'm not worried about that for you, brother, because you're already proving you're a person of integrity and stewardship with your money. You and your wife get together and ask yourselves, what kind of life do we want to live? Let's reverse engineer for that. And hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you Ken's book.

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1:47:00Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Defaulted private student loans don't define you and they don't have to control your future. Why Refi helps you start fresh with low fixed rate refinancing made for real people. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Mary in Alaska. Mary writes, my husband and I owe the IRS over$90 ,000 due to property sales. We are currently paying down that monthly. We also have$15 ,000 in credit card debt, car debt of$14K, and a$250 ,000 mortgage.

1:47:43We have over$150 ,000 in precious metals and$150 ,000 in a CD. We are retired and our income is about$7 ,500 a month. I want to cash out the metals to pay off everything. Yes! You know why? Because you are wise. My husband wants to keep the metals because the value is increasing. Right this second. We have no retirement accounts except the CD already mentioned. My husband has been pilfering that account in order to buy more metals. Good gosh. What should we do? Okay. I mean, this is an easy math problem. Precious metals are a speculative commodity. They go up and then they go way, way, way down.

1:48:28And they stay down and they go up when people freak out. Then they go down. Sell them. Sell them. Sell them today. Because you know what is going only up and more of a tighter and tighter chain around your ankle? is this IRS debt. Get rid of this stuff now. And you know what's going down in value? Your cars, while that debt stays the same. Your credit card debt is going up because of interest. Just cash the stuff out. But you have a bigger issue here, Rachel. Yeah, I mean, you guys don't have a lot of money, Mary. Well, somehow they've got$7 ,500 a month coming in. I don't know if that's Social Security.

1:49:05I don't know what that is. That's a pension or what? So the consumer debt and the IRS debt, yes, needs to be paid completely. And then I would take money once the CD matures, take that$150 ,000 out, and then the precious. I mean, you guys will have$30 ,000 left after you pay off everything. And I would then put all of that into investments. I mean, I would sit down with a SmartVestor pro and say, okay, aggressively, what can we do to do this? I would not throw it all at the mortgage right now because I would rather you have some money in retirement that you're slowly paying off the house. But I'm scared, you guys, Mary, that, I mean, you'll have$150 ,000 left, basically.

1:49:42And so that does worry me for you guys long term. That's not going to be enough money to retire on. And so the reality is, Mary, you guys are probably going to have to go back to work in some capacity. Well, they're making$7 ,500 a month. Yeah, but they only have$150 ,000 saved in a$250 ,000 mortgage. Yeah, they may have to sell that mortgage and way downsize. Yeah, you either downsize and I don't know how much you could get. I mean, I don't know what equity you have in your home. That's an option. or, you know, for a few years, Mary, of figuring out, you know, how do we make some money? Because you guys just don't have enough to cover what debt you have, like your liabilities versus what you have.

1:50:20And that's the math of it. To me, the scary thing here is your last sentence. My husband's pilfering our last remaining dollars to buy more precious metals. No. This is a recipe for a... Disaster. ...crash. Yes. Yes, 100 % agree. 100%. Okay. So you got to address the lack of integrity in your husband. You got to address y 'all's core marriage issues because I guarantee this isn't the only place where he's quote unquote pilfering things. Y 'all got to get on the same page there and come up with a unified plan moving forward. And I know that's easier said than done. You wouldn't be in these other situations if y 'all had been united, moving together.

1:50:57And to your point, John, I mean, if your house was a half a million dollar house and you had 250 in equity and you owe 250, you know, you could get out and go buy a 250, you know, 250 house free and clear. You know what I mean? If you just step down. So be thinking about that long term because I want you guys to be able to breathe. All right. Let's go to Stephanie in Chicago. Hi, Stephanie. Hi. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today? Thank you. I've been a fan for a very long time. I appreciate what you guys do. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. My question is related to our retirement savings.

1:51:34So my husband and I recently bought what we hope to be our forever home. We sold our starter and our mortgage has obviously increased as has the rate. So we're wondering if it's ever okay for us to pull back from retirement savings and just kind of give ourselves more margin or our increase in expenses. What percentage is your mortgage payment on this forever home compared to your income? So it's close. It's about 25 % of our monthly income. So where's the rest of your money going? So we do have our son does go to private, which is something that it was kind of one of the reasons that we did move neighborhoods.

1:52:22So it's very likely that he may be going to the local public school next school year. But we also have some repairs to do in this home that were a bit unexpected. And we do have some goals for the future as far as saving for a vehicle and paying off the home faster, which is something that has kind of been weighing on me. I was very comfortable with the mortgage that we had, but we're kind of at odds at whether we should pull back. I'm kind of more on the, I think we should just keep saving where we're at and make it work. And my husband feels like - Are y 'all doing 15 %? Putting 15 % away and that's too much is what you're saying?

1:53:00So we're each doing 16%, not including our company match, which is pretty generous. Okay. And then we're also maxing out our Roth IRAs from our take-home pay. Okay. Do you know percentage-wise how much of your income is going to all of those? Because that's going to be way more than 15%. um i don't okay um if if we're including our company match it we're both each putting away 24 of our income okay yeah that's not including the raw IRAs that we're doing yeah exactly okay yeah so yeah you guys are probably putting too much in retirement so what we would say is 15 of your income needs to go into retirement how much does your company match it's eight percent total.

1:53:458%. Okay. So what I would do is go up to the match. And then the remaining percentage that you guys have, I would go then to the Roth, max out the Roth. And if there's any percentages left, go back to your to the 401k. But I would just I would just do 15 % of your income into into retirement, you both your 401k, the 8%, not including the employers match. So that's not 16 i don't count the employers as 16 i just count your eight percent going in and then um okay and then the remaining 15 take to your roth ira and if you max that out depending on what you're making if you max it out go back to the 401k or it may just be enough just to do the eight percent and then maxing out the roth i'm not sure so you guys will have to kind of do the the math on that but yeah um i would cut back your retirement um to 15 okay so you're saying just do the eight percent to match the company and then put the remainder of that into our Roth.

1:54:45Into your Roth, yes. Because how much are you guys making a year? Combined, it fluctuates because we both have our base salary and then commission. But I would say comfortably, it's the most we've ever made. We're at about$160 ,000,$170 ,000. $160 ,000, okay. Well, then, okay, so the max on the Roth this year, I think, is$8 ,000. So what I would,$8 ,000 each. so again after you fund that eight percent if seven percent of your income left fills up the Roth IRA then just stop you guys are good but again if you hit that max and you still have one or two percentages left of your income to fit hit that 15 go back to the 401k does that make sense yeah it's hard for me because I know on paper like what we what we have saved up looks good but like my mind doesn't connect with, it just never feels like enough.

1:55:38I think I maybe worry too much about the future. So what does enough mean? You know, I wish that I knew. I think it just boils down to the fact that we both grew up pretty poor. And no one in our family had any financial literacy. And I'm always like, you know, I feel like we have a really good feeling for our age. How old are you guys, Stephanie? We're both 38. Okay, and how much do y 'all have in retirement right now? Between all of our IRAs and 401ks, it's just about$500 ,000. Okay, yeah. Oh, sister, you're good. So what's crazy is, Stephanie, if you just stop right now and don't do anything, your money will double every seven years, okay?

1:56:22So you guys are going to have millions every time. If you didn't do anything from now, like even if you just stopped, and you're going to continue to contribute 15%. So the remaining money that you're going to stop putting in retirement, yes, upgrade the cars if you need to and pay the house off early.

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1:57:57Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 66, 9. I will not cause pain without allowing something new to be born, says the Lord. Malcolm Gladwell says, a lot of what is most beautiful about the world arises from struggle. So good. All right, let's go to Ryan in Minneapolis. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help today? Yeah, I'm just, I had a question. My relative just passed away, and he, by default, because my father passed away, me and my brother are set to inherit what he has left, which is a house and a few cars and whatnot. But the only problem is he has a IRS debt of about$120 ,000.

1:59:03And so we're going to have to do a cash-out refinance to pay for the house. But what I'm wondering about is if me and my brother should sell it or if we should hold on to it. that's what we're kind of uh at odds about right now yeah i mean yeah the irs lien's gonna how much is the house how much is it worth if you sold it what would it be worth um give or take 200 000 probably yeah somewhere in that in that range yeah but if it was fixed up it's worth it's worth like easily 400 ,000. It would double in value if you fix it up? Yes. Okay. For sure. All of this is good, but it glosses over the main question here, which is, can you afford to do that?

2:00:04Like if somebody drove up here and said, hey, I got a brand new Lexus and it's awesome. It's just going to cost$100 ,000 and there was a$200 ,000 car. That'd be a great deal, but I don't have the money to go buy that thing. Right. and I'm not I'm sure I'm going to take out a cash out refi with a house with liens all over it you know what I'm saying okay and co-share it with a brother who I already have difference of opinion on how we're going to manage stuff moving forward like this is just bad decision after bad decision after bad decision okay yeah so the smart thing Ryan would be to you got to sell you got to pay the IRS debt and then you guys split whatever's left in it I mean that that's the cleanest smartest way and then you take that money and then whatever you want to do with money you know whether you want to go and save and buy up a rental and have another second home to do whatever you know whatever that looks like for you you can do that on your own terms but yeah yeah john's exactly right sharing a property with a family member is so messy and then financially if you're not even in a position to be able to cash flow all of this then yeah it's not if your brother If he wants to buy you out, then let him.

2:01:11Well, see, the only problem is there's also more debt as far as, like, credit cards. So I'm pretty sure the estate will—it's going to become insolvent. Okay, yeah, you may not get anything from it. And that's great. I'd rather be out and not even be near it then.

2:01:31I wouldn't try to make the deal work, Ryan. Do you have—is this an emotional attachment, too? yeah it's for sure sentimental yeah sure so dude like it was uh i'm i'm all with you on that what's important about this house to you well it was um it was the house my dad grew up in um my grandpa and grandpa or my grandpa basically built it built the whole thing with his hands everything hasn't been updated since he did it in the 50s and 60s yeah so like your emotional attachment to this the sentimental value is very real Rachel and I don't take that lightly that's a real pain that's a treasure and that sentimental treasure is going to become like a weight around your neck making it very hard to continue to tread water in an already chaotic time okay do you have what what's your financial state ryan do you have money saved consumer debt where are you at no i'm i'm fine no debt um i just got married a month ago and we're we're about yeah we're uh we're we're fine personally um you know we have we're on track for retirement um yeah do you have a lot of cash available um not 120 000 yeah yeah does your new wife have any um i know she hasn't obviously you guys are newlyweds but does she have any thoughts in this sometimes an outside spouse you know that's new to the situation who's less emotionally attached has thoughts too what is what is she saying um i mean she would she would like to for us to own a house eventually um and and me as well uh but she doesn't want to live there until it's fixed up understandably yeah um and that's going to be more money going into it and everybody who thinks it's going to cost x to fix it up the rule of thumb is double if not triple that that amount of money that you think it's going to cost you're going to get into a hundred year old home and find out it needs all kind of stuff.

2:03:49Yeah. And like you said, if you get into this estate and you keep this asset, they're going to come after you for, I mean, it's just going to be, it's going to be a mess financially of what you're going to have to do to get above water to be able to keep it and make it make sense. And then on top of that, let alone the repairs and everything. Can I tell you something that I, an experience I had a few years ago. so when I started working in universities my granddad who's one of my all-time life heroes one of the greatest men I've ever known he brought me into his closet and he gave me this tweed jacket because it looked like a professor's jacket had like the brown patches on the elbows and everything it has never fit one time it never fit but I carried that jacket with me everywhere house to house to house to house.

2:04:40And then one day, a few years ago, I was packing up to move yet again. And I was, I looked at this jacket. I thought of my granddad who'd passed away. I smiled and I put it in the keep pile. And then for whatever reason, I turned and I looked at that jacket and I said out loud without thinking about it, wasn't some big aha moment, but I just said, my granddad is not in that jacket. And then I put my hand on my chest and I said, he's right here. and I picked up this jacket that somebody's going to use, and it's going to use it well. It will never be me, and I put it in the donate pile. No, oh, John.

2:05:18I did. That makes me sick. That's a great illustration. Because somebody's going to need that jacket, and I'm keeping it from them by pretending to hang on to a memory that is actually inside of me. And it was sad. It was heartbreaking. And I've got a couple of keepsakes on my desk right now at my house where I'm writing. It's right there. But sometimes these sentimental things, they become bricks we carry around. And it's not like you're calling us and saying, hey, my dad stewarded his money well and his father's money well. We have a property worth$5 million and we just want to buy new cars.

2:05:57So we're going to sell it. That's not what you're saying, man. You're saying that you've got an absolute mess and there's a bunch of heartstrings attached to it. And so, man, I honor that. But, dude, doing a bunch of unwise financial things, especially on the heels of a brand new marriage, this house is going to turn into a deep resentment. It's going to further put a gap between you and your brother's relationship. It's going to begin to build a space between you and your new wife because you're not going to be able to buy the house you want because you're going to have all this outstanding debt on this house.

2:06:26It's just going to cause a mess, man. Just a mess. And also, dude, I get the heartbreak. It stinks. Yeah. Yeah, that's a... Well, thank you for telling that story. That's it, yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's so hard, too, because when it's the right thing to do, even though it's the sad thing, that sucks. Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. Yeah. But that is the wisest path, Ryan. I hate it for you. Is that. And I know that it's heartbreaking. And, you know, and it shows, too, how much we talk about this a lot on this show. our emotions can drive so many decisions. And then we look up four years later and think, what was, why did I do that?

2:07:08Right out of stress, out of fear, out of grief, like whatever it is. So my fear for him is he's going to have$300 ,000 out on a money pit and find himself in a stuck there. Yeah. Yeah. I know, Ryan, I'm so sorry. But I hope, I hope that helps. Yeah. Sell the house, brother, pay off all the debts and. Yep. And you build a great, great life with your new wife. All right. Well, thanks to our wonderful audience here in Nashville at Ramsey Solutions. Thanks to all you in the booth. John, thank you as well. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.