Quit Paying for Yesterday's Mistakes

23:55Dave Ramsey:And, you know, started with nothing, basically. I mean,$10 ,000 or$7 ,500 is basically nothing. And so start fresh again. That's the idea behind it. So interesting. Very interesting. That is very interesting. So when you think about bankruptcy, folks, you need to understand there's about, I think you may have seen the stuff, sometimes it pops up on the internet. I used to see the list before there was an internet. 10 things that if you have more than two or three of these things in a 24-month period of time, you're probably going to be in the hospital. The 10 huge tragedies of life, you know. So divorce, loss of a child, loss of a parent, bankruptcy is on that list.

24:40Dave Ramsey:And so you're entering into the list of one of the most serious things that can happen in your life. and so it's not to be taken lightly and we don't tell people to file bankruptcy on this show. We give you five ways you can avoid it and we say I understand we're going to love you whether you file or you don't file. Sometimes if it's a ridiculous situation we'll yell at you for your own sake but you know if you if you owe six thousand dollars and you hadn't had a job in two months and you want to file bankruptcy I'm like dude it costs two grand to file bankruptcy It's just stupid. Go get a job.

25:14Dave Ramsey:You know, I mean, we're just going to get all over you, right, for your own sake. So you got to – the trick is bankruptcy relieves the pressure today only. It does not fix the problem in your mirror. And I would imagine it just sucks the confidence out of you. Oh, man. It sucks the spirit out of you. Man, I just was – I was not only broke, I was broken. Yeah. But it was a spiritual thing with me as well. Yeah, I can imagine. As well. So it took a while to rebuild after that. And, but yeah, and you know what it does to your relationships and what it does to everything else. And, you know, you walk down the street, you see that person that didn't get paid, you know, all that kind of stuff.

25:56Dave Ramsey:And that stuff happens. All right. Catherine is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Catherine. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. In a nutshell, my question is just how do I go about compromising with my husband? in our budgeting, when it comes to tithing, he doesn't really agree with it. And I have, if I'm being honest, I'm not really willing to budge right now, but it's, I'm tired. It's a monthly argument, and I'm just like, okay, I'm over this. Do you, tithing typically comes from someone that's an evangelical Christian or Orthodox Jewish? Yeah, are you both those things, either of those things?

26:41No. Okay, so I'm guessing you are and he's not. Well, no, I'm not. Like, I guess I wouldn't consider myself an evangelical Christian, but, I mean, I do believe, you know, that God calls us to be cheerful givers. Okay.

26:57Dave Ramsey:You attend a church? Yes. No. You hesitated. You don't either, do you? Oh, I do. You said, do I attend a church? Yes. Yes. Okay. But he doesn't. He has kind of chosen that he doesn't want to. Okay. Yeah. This is the problem, not the tithe. I agree. So, again, context, we are rebuilding after him, like, wanting a divorce and all those other kind of things. And, like, for a long, like, at the beginning of our marriage, it was a problem. I got tired of the tithing, so I just stopped tithing. And then whenever the divorce situation came about, then we kind of were doing our own separate thing. And that's when I started tithing again.

27:37And now that we're trying to come back together, it's a like, basically, I'm just like, this is what I feel called to do. And I don't really necessarily know how to compromise about it. Like, how does it feel? What if you took, let me just ask this, and I know you've been approaching it from one way. This is just hypothetical. If you had said, I'd like to give some money to this charity or to this foundation, how would he have felt about that? Just general charitable giving, not tied to something that has a religious base like tithing? How would he have felt about that? Just generosity.

28:13I can't say for certain. I don't really know. Okay. I'd want to know that because I'd want to know that there's some piece of generosity that lives inside of this person. And if there's not, I'd want to get to the bottom of that because that speaks depths about them. So I'd be curious about that. I also want to know how long have you been married? Now it's eight years.

28:34Dave Ramsey:Okay. Let me back up then. Let's pan back a second. So evangelical Christian means Bible-believing. Oh, okay. And so we would take our instruction on this question from Scripture, okay? And we can go into what we call the Old Testament, what our Jewish friends call the Bible, the Talmud, right? And find it all over the place. We can also find it in Jesus' own words and to tithe, to give a tenth. But in nowhere is it a salvation issue. and nowhere is it a I gain entrance to heaven because of my giving a tithe. God loves tithers. He loves non-tithers. It's not a sin to not tithe. But your heavenly father, who's crazy about you, says the best way to live your life, my daughter, is to be giving steadily.

29:26Dave Ramsey:And the baseline to start with your generosity is a tenth to your local house of worship, which follows the Old Testament guideline of the storehouse. The Levites were provided for the pastors. The priests were provided for the rabbis. And the widows and the orphans were provided for from the storehouse. And so bring a tenth to the storehouse, the Old Testament says. And so that's where the model comes from. That's the teaching. Now, then pan back and say, in your situation, what matters? This doesn't matter at all. No. I wouldn't die on this hill. And the more, honestly, the more you argue about it, the more he's probably going to dig his heels in.

30:09And this is never going to happen based off of an argument. He's never going to become generous based off of an argument.

30:13Dave Ramsey:The tithe should be the result of your faith. It should be the result of your faith. The result of where you place your trust. And that's what's missing here. And so the two of you working on your relationship and coming into agreement about what heaven looks like and what the truth of the scriptures are is a thousand times more important than whether or not you give a tithe for this four-month period of time while we're discussing this. I don't predict good things for your marriage until you get aligned on religion. It's one of the top four things that breaks families up.

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32:29Dave Ramsey:One of the biggest mistakes people make is thinking that they can skip having a will just because they're too young or too healthy or they don't own anything. A will protects your family. It gives clear instructions. It keeps your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted while they're going through a difficult time. Doing a will is an act of love. if you're ready to create one, go to mamabearlegal.com. If you're not sure where to start, text quiz to 33-789, and we'll help you figure it out. Caleb is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Caleb. How are you? Hey, Dave. I am doing well. How have you been?

33:10Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. My question for you, so I'm weighing the benefits of either working towards paying our mortgage off early or putting the additional amount towards investing. And the reason I'm calling you is my financial advisor has told me it makes more sense to invest. But being a listener of your show, I've heard contradicting statements from you. So I want to talk through it. Well, your financial advisor is wrong. And that's what the data says. Okay, the theory that he's using or she's using is that if you have money invested at 12 % or whatever the good mutual fund is bringing you, and you use that to pay off a 6 % mortgage, that you cost yourself money.

33:57Dave Ramsey:That's the theory that they're operating under. What they're not taking into consideration is the socioeconomic impacts of paying off your home. What we find is people are healthier, Their marriages are stronger. They do better in their careers. And in addition, and all of that amounts to way more than the spread of a mortgage over a mutual fund. Way more mathematically. And where we see that turn up is when we studied doing the largest study of actual millionaires, not broke financial planners with an opinion, where we talked to actual millionaires, people that were millionaires. And we said, ask them a whole series of questions.

34:38Dave Ramsey:We talked to over 10 ,167 of them. And the number of them that didn't pay off their home and instead borrowed on their home effectively, which is what you're doing, to invest in a mutual fund and say, that's what caused me to build wealth. The number of them that said that out of 10 ,000 was precisely zero. Okay. Instead, what we found was that the typical millionaire in America, the first one to five million, typically is about half, a third to a half of your net worth is a paid off mortgage. And the other two thirds to a half is your 401k and your good retirement investing. But the idea of keeping a mortgage around to the typical millionaire, they laugh at that ridiculous advice.

35:32Dave Ramsey:And so do I. And so does Jade. There it is. There's the laugh. On cue. And I'm 24 years old. So that's been the big question I'm weighing. Is it my age? Does that compound interest over time pay off more than what paying my mortgage off might be? Nope. Because the risk, debt equals risk, and you haven't mathematically adjusted for risk. Taxes you haven't adjusted for. and nowhere in this equation have you figured out what it's costing a relationship or costing you physically or whatever else. See, we can trendline heart disease, anxiety increases in our culture over the last 50 years and the trendline follows exactly over the top of increasing debt.

36:22Dave Ramsey:As credit card debt, student loan debt, and mortgage debt have increased steadily so have those diseases interesting well no kidding of course you have more anxiety if you don't have if you have a mortgage than if you don't hello right and of course that affects your heart you want to know what i think and this is just something i think it's not it's not a fact it's not data i think that people just like the way it feels to invest their money and i think they just like to see that balance go up, up, up, up, up. It feels better. It feels like money that they can see and feel in touch more than the equity in their home.

37:03I think it, honestly, I think it just boils down to a feeling.

37:07Dave Ramsey:And it might be even a subconscious thing that if you have, you know, a million dollars in a mutual fund, but you've got a half million dollars in a house mortgage, okay, you can access. You can get it. You can get it. You can't get it out of the house exactly and if you want to go buy a bass boat you have to refinance that's right if it's in the house i think that's i mean which is another reason to do it because it keeps you from doing stupid crap with your money right so keep your hands it's what we call a forced savings plan so caleb i would beg you to become debt free and stay debt free and use your most powerful wealth building tool which is your income to build your wealth and get a different financial advisor one who's right.

37:45Dave Ramsey:He's 24. He's got a long time to build wealth. Yeah. You got plenty of time. You're going to be very, very wealthy, but no. And age really doesn't enter into it because the math is still the same. As a matter of fact, age makes it more pronounced. So we had on the air yesterday, we had a debt-free scream, Rachel and I did. 23 and 22 from Northern Michigan. The house is worth about$300 ,000. Wow. They paid off$140 ,000 in 22 months. They have zero debt. They make$170 ,000 a year. So let's juxtapose that young couple with this young man. Okay. And because he said, because I'm young, right? Can you possibly imagine what a couple making above$150 ,000 a year in their early twenties is going to be worth if they have zero debt payments?

38:32I'm going like 33, 34 million.

38:35Dave Ramsey:Yeah. We didn't even put it in the calculator. We just put the house payment only in the calculator and it was 20 million i'm done wow just the house payment wow from 22 to 67 you know and it's just like holy that is unbelievable you know but what we're not doing there is paying you know worrying about what commission my financial planner gets that's which they don't get commission on paid off mortgages that's a good point things that make you go that's a very good point now honestly most of them don't give the advice because they're greedy jerks and want to get commissioned. That's really not what happens.

39:11Dave Ramsey:Truthfully, I'll defend them. Most of them just give this advice because they're trained by an industry that's wrong. I mean, the financial planning business is a bunch of lemmings. Do you all know what that is? Little rats that run in herds, and they will all run off the cliff together. They follow each other like a herd, like the hogs when Jesus removed the spirit from them and the whole herd ran over the cliff. That's the financial planning business. Whatever one of them does, they all do. And then they declare it to be absolute by God truth. And it's most of the time not. Some of them are CFPs and some of them are certified financial Pharisees.

39:48Dave Ramsey:And so, you know, so there's some really good people in that business. And there's some people who haven't had their own thought in years. They just were told what to think and that's all they think. And then they decided that was truth like it came out of the Bible or something. Which, by the way, none of this discussion comes out of the Bible except the part where the borrower is slave to the lender. That part comes out of the Bible. But the rest of it doesn't. So, you know, I'm not defending paying off the home mortgage based on that, other than you wouldn't be a slave anymore. That's nice.

40:15Dave Ramsey:That's right. I didn't make that point to Caleb. I made a math point to him. But there you go. So, gosh, can you imagine? These 20-somethings get in here and they do these debt-free screams and it's their stinking house. And the house was cute. I'm sure it was. Well, I mean, you thought, you know, but in northern Michigan, you can buy a lot of house. Yeah, you can. They're out in the middle of nothing. And so, but I mean, you get a good deal. I mean, but it was a little, looked like a little Norman Rockwell painting and the little Norman Rockwell couple. I mean, they were just a power couple. It was unbelievable.

40:48Good for them. Yeah.

40:49Dave Ramsey:And you're thinking, man, I think we're going to be okay if we - Still possible. If we got a few of those around, we're going to be all right. So this stuff works. And to Caleb's point, it works even better when you start young. Absolutely. I mean, it sounds like they probably didn't have a ton of consumer debt to pay off. they just went hog on their mortgage. He was raised in a financial peace baby. I wondered, yeah. He was raised in that, and then he was dating a girl who was smarter than him. And so that's what he said. But it's still a ton of debt. You know, if it's$140 ,000 towards a mortgage, that same, I mean,$140 ,000 is$140 ,000.

41:22If it's consumer debt, if it's, well, it doesn't matter. The fact that you can get intense and really pay something off in a short period of time is hope-filled.

41:29Dave Ramsey:Yeah, but knowing what I know, the amount of data that is in my soul on this stuff from sitting in this chair for 35 years, I hear that couple and my mind, the math just explodes in my mind. What's going to happen to that couple? And their family tree. And I can't, I don't have any data to back up, the hard data to back up, the health effects and the relational effects. What percentage of people never get divorced that don't have debt versus the people that have debt? Oh, wow. That's interesting. Because divorce is grand. I mean, marriage is grand, but divorce is 50 grand. So, I mean, if you split your assets every so often and start over, it's hard to build wealth.

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43:34Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Sal is in New York City. Hi, Sal. How are you? Hi Dave, hi Jade, how are you guys? Better than we deserve, what's up? Good, well I'd like to start off by thanking you because I am the light at the end of the tunnel, finishing up maybe step two. I'm almost completely out of debt, I plan on being there probably by the end of the year. Cool, good for you. Yeah, but part of really the reason why I'm calling is because as much as I'm invested into the Ramsey plan and being in control of my finances, my ex-wife is not.

44:21Dave Ramsey:And her behaviors towards money concern me when it comes to our daughter. In what way? Is your daughter going to be hungry? Well, no, but a lot of frivolous spending, the idea of it costs what it costs, things like that, racking up debt, a lot of debt, borrowing against 401ks, clearing out 401ks. How old is your daughter? She's 13. Okay. Good. All right. Well, here's the thing. And you cannot, I mean, you could ask the same question and say, how do I teach my child to do their homework and get good grades if my ex-wife won't? How do I teach my child to have good manners and be a pleasant, kind person if my ex-wife won't?

45:21Dave Ramsey:Which are also things that happen to. I'm sorry? I said those are also things that kind of happen in the house that don't happen to the house as well. So what the answer to the question is, is you can't control what happens over there. That's why we call them the X. Right. So we don't get to control that anymore. The only thing you can control is what you can control. And it's as for me in my house, this is what we do. So here's what I do, honey. You're 13. And when I had 13-year-olds, the thing I always heard is, I just want to be treated like an adult. You ever heard that? Yes. Yeah. To which my answer always was, when you're acting like an adult, I will treat you like an adult.

46:08Dave Ramsey:When you're acting like you're four, I will treat you like you're four. And within every 13-year-old's body is a four-year-old and a 34-year-old. Right. And so I have to ask this multiple personality human which one I'm speaking to at the time. Okay? If I'm speaking to the adult version of you, I'm going to talk to you like I would my best friend and say, Honey, here's what I'm doing and why that makes sense. I'm going to always be generous. I'm going to always live on a plan. I'm going to always be living on less than I make. I'm going to always be investing. I'm going to avoid debt. And I'm going to enjoy some of my money that I pay cash for things only.

46:47Dave Ramsey:I do not take on debt. You will not find chaos and anxiety at our house over here because that's the way I live. And that's how I would love for you to live because I think it's going to cause you to be the best person ever. If you're four, I'm just going to tell you no. And I don't have to explain it because you're freaking four. And just too, there's part of this that's going to, it's going to have a delayed effect because at 13, she's not going to necessarily see how things end up, but there's going to be a day where she's 23 and she's going to think back and go, oh gosh, my dad, you know, these are the things he taught and I can see the results of that and how he's living today and how, what his demeanor is, how our relationship is.

47:31And then she's also going to see the results of what your ex is doing, which is she's probably going to end up with more debt. There's going to be more stress, more strain on the relationship. So let it take its course, let the learning and what she's learning take its course. You're not going to see the result of it today or even next year or, you know.

47:48Dave Ramsey:So honestly, if I can, I'll ask them, am I speaking to the adult version of you? If I am, then let's talk this through and I will use persuasion and my tone of voice and use logic and explanation and data and spiritual guidance and those kinds of things like I would with an adult. But if I'm talking with a four-year-old that's having a hissy fit on the cereal aisle, then the answer is just no. And I'm not negotiating with a rational human being at this point. I just have to pick them up and leave the store. Right. Yeah, I recognize with this, Jade, like you said, it's the long game. Yeah, it is.

48:32It is the long game.

48:33Dave Ramsey:And the persuasion when you say it to a 13-year-old about anything, you know, premarital sex, studying, brushing your teeth, how to talk to boys, what position to put yourself in, all these kinds. The 13-year-old is going to listen some and some they're not going to listen. And then you're going to get some hard lessons that will come with that. and so um but you the only thing you can control i wouldn't i wouldn't put an ounce of my brain calories on what happens over at the x's and if she brings that up you just go you know i your mom's a great lady and she can do whatever she wants to do over there and what we do over here is this i don't know i usually i'm sorry that's okay go ahead you're fine no i was just gonna say I try to keep emotionally or any kind of thought or feeling towards whatever's going on over there.

49:32Not my monkeys, not my circus kind of a thing. And that's typically what I do with that stuff. It's just where certain instances come up, something like that happened today where it's like it hits in my brain where it's, you know, What is my daughter really learning from that insulin?

49:53Dave Ramsey:Bad things. It's what she's learning. Right. Things that are not going to be helpful to her. That's what she's learning. And the only chance you've got to offset that is by pouring good, clean water into the glass so that it displaces the other stuff out of the glass. Yeah. And that vessel being one precious 13-year-old. And Rachel says what Jade said is more is caught than taught. I'll send you a copy of the book Rachel and I did together. It was her first number one. It's called Smart Money, Smart Kids, How to Teach Kids How to Handle Money. It's a parenting manual on that. And it'll help you.

50:29Dave Ramsey:You'll love reading it, and it'll help you. You want to teach them to work. You want to teach them to save. You want to teach them to give. You want to teach them to spend wisely. And you want to teach them to give, save, spend, and work. That's it. Yeah, give, save, spend, work. Give, save, spend, work. And that's what adults should learn, by the way. Most people can't do all five of those things either. Give, save, spend, work. Give, save, spend, work. Work, give, spend, work, give, spend, work. Save. I mean, that's it. That's it. It's over and over, right? Yep, that's right. Get stuck in that.

51:00Yeah. I mean, the other thing.

51:01Dave Ramsey:It's a great question, by the way. It's a good question. And then, you know. So frustrating. I don't have kids 13, but I've been 13. And so I feel like that's my perspective on this. And at the end of the day, when you become an adult, you learn just as much from what your parents taught so much of what to do and from the mistakes that they made you learn from both of them yep so it's not a oh my gosh everything I taught my kid wasn't exactly right they're gonna learn either way they're gonna learn from the mistakes they're gonna learn we were talking about that you and I the other day on giving at church yes in the old days you would put a check into the giving in the offering plate and the child would see the parent doing that week after week after week on their day of worship and every single and and you don't have to say a thing no it's just drilled in and um you know that but yeah the more is caught than taught

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53:43Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Missed private student loan payments can leave you feeling like your financial goals are stuck on hold. Because they are. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fit your budget so you can move forward, not be stuck. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Alrighty, today's question comes from Sam in Wyoming. He says, my girlfriend believes I'm making the worst decision of our life. A family friend asked us if we wanted to buy their home without putting it on the market. It's a great deal.

54:20And an attorney will handle the contract, but we're not married. And I believe we have too much debt at this time. I have about 50 ,000 of debt and earn 85 ,000 a year. My girlfriend has around$100 ,000 in debt and make 65 ,000 a year. We are currently renting and living with my brother. Am I making the right decision not to purchase this house? Yes. Now is not the time. You highlighted a reason not to buy this house, but there are several reasons for the love of God to not buy this house. Your girlfriend is very emotional. She has something in her mind. She's created this picture, this playing house picture with you of you moving into this house that you can't afford and living this lifestyle with your friends that you can't afford.

55:11And you have just woken her up from what she thought was a dream, but you know, is a nightmare. And so here's the thing. Number one, you're not married.

55:21Dave Ramsey:Never buy a house with someone you're not married to under any circumstances, period. This ends up in what's known as a car wreck. Terrible. Number two, and you highlighted this, the debt,$150 ,000 of debt between the two of you, no money saved because you didn't mention it. And I feel like you would have mentioned it if you had it. And you're living with a brother. So you don't even have a place of your own. There is no foundation. There is no financial security in this relationship at this point. And for those reasons, I'm out. So what I would do if I were in your shoes, and this would be the order of importance that I would do this.

55:57Today, since you're the one who wrote in and you're familiar with our principles, if I were you, I would start tackling your debt. I would start working our plan, the seven baby steps, and I would start sharing that information with your girlfriend so that she can do the same. And then when the time comes and you guys, if you do decide to get married, I don't know if that's in the cards, if you decide to get married and you still have a little bit of debt, now you can work together and combine your money as married people and actually pay off your debt, save up some money, and then save up a down payment.

56:29And then when the time comes, you can purchase a home the right way. But that day is not today, and it's quite far in the future.

56:36Dave Ramsey:The problem with real estate is everyone says to buy real estate. It's a great deal. Almost no one says don't buy real estate. You ought to buy a house, buy a house, buy a house, buy a house. And a young couple, buy a house, buy a house, buy a house, buy a house. Get out of my house and go buy a house, buy a house, buy a house, right? Right. That's what the brother's saying. Yeah. So it's a family friend. I'm going to give you a deal. Buy a house. What's wrong with you? You're crazy. You got to buy a house. You got to buy a house. You got to buy a house. It's almost as if if you're a renter, you're going to hell.

57:04Dave Ramsey:You're not. Real estate has no middle ground. It is either purchased properly when you are in a proper situation to buy it, and it becomes a blessing. Right. Right. Or you're going to screw yourself over and it's going to take you a decade to get out from under this bad idea called a real estate purchase. Well, you left a part out because the number one thing is everybody's saying buying a house. But the number two part is when you see a house, you think that's the only one. Yeah. You think it's the only deal you'll ever get. The only one with that floor plan, the only one with that. And as a person who's been in the real estate business off and on most of my life, I laugh at that.

57:49Dave Ramsey:There's a stinking house on every corner. Oh, but it's a great deal. There's a deal on every other corner. But look at the yard. Yeah, well, it's got grass. You're killing me here. I'm sorry. It's a stupid house. Don't ruin your life. Real estate is a horrible purchase when you're not ready. And you're not ready because you're not married. And you don't have any money. And you're not married because you're broken and dead. Now, if you want to buy a house as a single person without your girlfriend, that's okay. But do not buy a house with your girlfriend or boyfriend. Stupid. All kinds of really bad things are going to happen when you do this.

58:33Dave Ramsey:So, Sam, you are right. Please stand your ground. And if it means that this young lady runs away, well, that might not be a big loss. It may not be. And I just, I mean, I can't stress enough to have$100 ,000 of debt or whatever consumer debt and to rush into buying a house, putting as minimal down as possible, having a payment that's way too much. Yes. You don't get hammered. Please don't do this. You were right, Sam. We are on your team. Timothy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Timothy. What's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, Jed. How are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? so um just to be succinct i'm calling because my parents probably wouldn't um i am 19 years old and my parents make uh well over six figures every year but we kind of find ourselves living more or less paycheck to paycheck um and i'm going off to college in a month and that brings one big payment at the end of september with it and so um i'm kind of calling just to ask like how do I get my parents on board with a total money makeover and get their like hearts into it?

59:43You don't.

59:45Dave Ramsey:The number of parents that listen to a 19 year old is almost zero. Now, are you concerned that when it's time to pay tuition in September, there's not going to be any money there? Or how are we paying for your tuition? Yeah. So basically my dad's philosophy on it, just because the income is pretty high, has always been that we didn't need to put anything into any accounts because we would just pay for it when we got there. But as the date gets closer and more logistics get figured out, it's kind of becoming clear that they're becoming stressed about it and I'm kind of becoming stressed about it.

1:00:18And so I know that it will be fine, but it's also just kind of like a thing where I've been listening for a long time and I picked up the Zero Money Makeover book recently. And it's like all of this truth and good stuff is here in front of me and I kind of want to help bring them the peace that I see and all these stories and all of that. Well, I'm glad that you picked up the book. And I mean, that's going to serve you very well in your life. But I agree with Dave. You're not going to be able to change them because you told them that you listened to something on the radio or, hey, look at this book.

1:00:53But I am concerned with you for the tuition. How much? You said they were just thinking that they're going to cash flow it. How much is due in September? Just about$14 ,000. $14 ,000. So the conversation I'd be having, and I think this is fair. This is not you overstepping. I think it's fair to say, hey, mom, dad, tuition's due coming up here in less than a month. I just want to make sure the plan is still what we talked about, that I'm still going to be able to sign up. Because if I'm not, I want you to tell me so I can start thinking about what my options are. And so I can start thinking about if I have to push to next September, if I have to start thinking about maybe picking up a job to help pay for this.

1:01:34I just want to know, I want to open up the lines of communication.

1:01:38Dave Ramsey:That's good. That's good. Yeah. But Timothy, overall, your heart is good. I want your mom and dad to learn something that you have learned and you're excited about. But truthfully, sir, it's what we call the powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your advice on money or sex. And so you're never going to be able to advise them on either one of those things, even if you're a 40-year-old financial planner and your father is broke. maybe then maybe then he will ask you a question but he's certainly not going to ask a college freshman who's just out of high school because he read one book and he's not going to listen to you and I don't mean that disparagingly towards you it's just the way things are and so um it's the most difficult um thing you can do now now what you can do is you can just say mom and dad I read this book and I loved it.

1:02:29Dave Ramsey:I think you might like it and just leave it on the coffee table. That's and then see if they pick it up. Maybe I can get to them. Right. Now I do want to say this to you. I know you're probably moved off the line, but what I don't, what is an absolute no, no is if they start talking about student loans that you can both sign for, the answer is no. Correct. No student loans for you. We're not doing any student loans. You're not signing your name with. up for any debt. We're going to find another way to go to college if you can't do it, mom and dad. You're right. Good catch. Good catch there.

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1:04:42Thank you.

1:05:12more critically about the future.

1:05:14Dave Ramsey:Amen. And what a wonderful thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. It's the best. So basically we have a hundred thousand dollars between student loans and auto loans. We have about a million in stock. He makes 145K. I make 175K. And I would love to be a stay at home mom one day so I can have more, a bigger family. And I just don't know how that looks like and how Where'd you get a million in stocks? Lucky, I guess. No mutual funds in the mix? No. Lucky. I mean, it just dropped in your mailbox. What do you mean? You all invested or you bought stock or what? It was awarded through work. It's all one stock?

1:06:07Yes. Oh. Okay.

1:06:09Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Very, very scary. Yes. Very, very dangerous. Are these restricted shares? Are you able to sell them? I'm able to share them. Good, good. Okay. Well, first order of business, if I woke up in your shoes, I would be terrified. Amen. Okay. I'm a little stressed out. I don't know what the best way to do. I'd be terrified that all my money was on one horse, and he might fall and break his leg. Yeah. Okay, so the first thing I'm going to do is learn a word called diversification, which means to spread around. So I'm going to cash out this stock, and I'm going to set aside the money for taxes that are created, see a tax professional and see how much it is, and then I'm going to pay off all of my debt, and then I'm going to invest the stock in good growth stock mutual funds.

1:07:00Dave Ramsey:Now, did your husband, all was given to him as compensation? Yes. So he didn't pay anything for any of this? There's some ISOs that were paid for before, yeah. Okay, not much. The large sum is just awarded, yeah. So you're going to have a lot of taxes if you do what I'm talking about, but I'm going to do it anyway. Because I'm afraid you guys are going to get baked if this company slips just a little and stubs its toe. It's going to cost you$200 ,000 that you don't have. So I'm going to get out of this business of owning one stock. Doc, your husband's not going to like this conversation. I don't care.

1:07:38Dave Ramsey:He's wrong. Okay? Because he thinks he knows what his business is going to do, and he doesn't. He's not in control unless he's the owner of the business. And even then, he's not in complete control because sometimes the marketplace will still kick you in the teeth. And so, anyway, all that to say, I'm getting out of this. And let's pretend that we spend$250 ,000 on taxes and we pay off$100 ,000,$140 ,000 in debt. So we're 100 % debt-free. We also have. I'm sorry? $550 ,000. Sorry, we also have a home loan that's$550 ,000. Oh. Sorry, you should have brought that up. That's okay. All right.

1:08:21Okay, I don't think I'm going to win this discussion, but I'm going to tell you, you called NASS, so I'm going to tell you what I would do.

1:08:30Dave Ramsey:I would cash out the stock, I would pay my taxes, and I'd pay off all my debt. I don't think you're going to have anything left. Yeah, exactly. So that's what I'm scared about. And if you don't have a house payment and you don't have any debt and you never borrow money again because you live on a budget, you probably can make it on his$145. Plus, I bet he's continuing to get stock, is he not? Yes. Does he have just a normal, I mean, does he have the ability to invest through a 401K into mutual funds or into funds? Yes. Okay. I would set my 401K up. But how much stock does he get a year in value?

1:09:06Dave Ramsey:How much money in stock does he get once a year? About$50 ,000. Okay. So he actually makes$195 ,000. Mm-hmm. That's what I would do. Okay. I would cash that stock out, and I would invest in the 401K heavily every year. Okay. And live off of$195 ,000 in Sacramento with zero mortgage and zero debt of any kind. You can do that. Okay. and then okay that sounds good but it's not this is not an easy sale like a lot this is a very tough sell seems like a lot of money and i just want to set up our teachers so that you know we can give more to church gives to our parents if possible set up our kids well if you're making two hundred thousand dollars a year and you know you're what 28 years old how old are you 28 oh look at that almost almost like i've done this okay and so um yeah so uh yeah you're 28 years old and you make$200 ,000 a year and you don't even have a mortgage, I think you can invest and you can be generous and I think you can build a wonderful life and become multi-millionaires.

1:10:10Dave Ramsey:And that's the way I'm looking at this. I think you own way too much of one company. It's very, very, very dangerous. Yeah. Does he at least share your fear in that? Nope. Actually, we're both probably overly confident. In that company, because that company's always done well. But that's what we call the myth of continuity. There's one thing is for sure. Things are going to change. They're going to get worse or they're going to get better. This idea that things are going to remain the same is mythology. Okay. And so I don't know. I do know. The first time I ever ran into this was about 35 years ago.

1:10:50Dave Ramsey:I used to do one-on-one personal counseling in those days. And I sat down with a lady who had a million two with a name brand company that if I named it, every one of you would know the name of the company. and she had a million two in company stock and she was 78 years old whoa at least she had a million two before she came and saw me because in the six months before she came and saw me she lost 30 of it because that company had a bump and so she didn't she really had about 780 000 by the time she got to me and she sat in my office and cried i bet she did and i'm 78 years old what am I going to do?

1:11:27Dave Ramsey:And I'm like, well, we're not going to stay in this position. We're going to get out. And you mean I got to pay all those taxes? Yes. That was painful too. What about my company that I've trusted all these years? And I'm like, you trusted not only them for your income, you trusted them for your retirement. You can't trust them for both. That's bad. You should have retirement on your own and trust them only for your income. So no, I would not be keeping any of this company stock. I don't own any single stocks, Michelle, by the way. Not one. Not one. No one. Hope that helps. That's tough. Wow, sir.

1:11:59Dave Ramsey:Mike's in Houston, Texas. Hey, Mike, what's up? Hey, Dave and Jade. Long time listener, first time caller. I love you guys. You too. How can we help? Yeah, so my wife and I have been debt-free since 2020. We're in Baby Step 456, cruising along. My question is, how do we set boundaries with my mother-in-law about child care and costs? So we've paid her since my daughter. She was born in like 2014 to take care of her. And then during the summers and we found her. And then my son was born in 2020 and she's kind of done the same thing for all these years. So we end up paying her now about$800 a month, which I know is a bargain.

1:12:45But I feel like that's taken away from a lot of our saving power now. What would you do if she wasn't caring for them? I know. We would do all these things on our own. So now the kids are in school.

1:12:57Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you don't need child care now. You're doing it as a favor to her? No. Yeah. So it's kind of this, she hasn't worked for so long and doesn't really have a plan to go back. And so now we just need help with like. Well, you know, how old is your oldest one? She is 12. Okay. Okay. So, well, this is one of those things that because you didn't deal with it when you should have, it's going to be harder to deal with it now. Yeah. You made a bigger problem by not dealing with it when it was a little problem. So now I don't know how this is going to go, but I'm going to sit down with her and no kid around.

1:13:39Dave Ramsey:You and your wife sit down at the kitchen table and just say, Mom, we're thinking about changing the direction of the child care. We don't really need child care. How can we help you make a transition? What's a reasonable plan? Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't think that's you being the villain at all. The kids were going to grow up and outgrow the need of that. I mean, what are you going to do in six years anyway when the 12-year-old is 18, right? Absolutely. Exactly. So we need a plan, and it's been wonderful. It's been a great season, and it's been a blessing to you, the money has, and you've been a blessing to us and to the kids.

1:14:11Dave Ramsey:so we want to make sure we do a gradual transition that doesn't harm you, but we need to work on a transition. What do you want to do and how can we help you? That's okay.

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1:16:12Dave Ramsey:If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the whole Ramsey plan is built right in. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. that'll sound just like you were here on the air with us. It'll help you free up more money, work the plan faster, get out of debt, become wealthy. It's like having one of us walking with you every single day. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Crystal is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Crystal.

1:16:46Dave Ramsey:How are you? Hi, Dave and Jade. Thank you guys for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So I have a little bit of a dilemma. I think I know what you're going to say, but I want to hear it, I guess. So we're building a house right now, and I'm afraid that we're going to be house poor. So a little bit of backstory is we're debt free. I'm 29. My husband is 33. The only thing we owe on now is our house that we're building, and it's just kind of snowballed. We didn't put enough money in things like we forgot about some stuff like the expensive things. so we have 40 acres it's paid for and then we built a big shop we're living in the shop now while we finish the house so all in when we're finished we'll have about 700 ,000 in this place we have quite a bit of equity in it equity in it we could probably sell for like 1.2 in our area and how the market is right now which is exciting that we have that much equity but my husband is the only one working right now we have two kids and um there's just no child care where we're at under two so we have a 10 month old so i'm staying home with him um i do plan on going back to work and i'll make about 35 000 a year he makes about 120 right now so our house payment is a big chunk of our income right now which we're still making it fine my husband does side jobs, excavation work, and flipping vehicles on marketplace.

1:18:19But I just hate having to rely on that to come up with the payment. What does he bring in every month?

1:18:25Dave Ramsey:What is your monthly income, including all of his side hustles? If he does the side jobs, it's probably about$8 ,000 a month. If he doesn't do the side jobs, probably$6 ,000. And your house payment is what? Whenever it's done, it'll be about$4 ,000. So it's half of when he's going. Or 75 % or 70 % if he's not doing side houses. Correct, yeah. And so I know that 25 % is what we need to shoot for in a 15-year mortgage. My question is, should we finish building? We're probably about two months and we'll be done building. Should we finish building and just turn around and sell, pocket like$600 ,000 and find somewhere and pay cash, which sounds great?

1:19:14or stay in the school district we want and just, I go back to work in a year, and he just picked up even more side jobs and just really worked on, you know, hounding down this debt to be able to stay where we want in the area that we want. The hard part for me with that strategy, with option number two, is even if you went back to work, you were bringing around$2 ,000 a month in, so that gets you back to the$8 ,000, which now you're at 50%. But that means in perpetuity, he would have to be doing all of these side hustles forever and ever. Amen.

1:19:49Dave Ramsey:Until your incomes come up. Yeah. Right. You're going to... I'm sorry, Crystal. This is a horrible thing. It is. This house, you love this house. It's got your heart and soul in it. I can hear it in the way you're describing it. It's got a piece of ground. There's a piece of dirt there that goes with it. Oh, my gosh, this is just wonderful. Everything is good except your finances. You're going to be broke. And you'll end up disliking the house and disliking the property because of what it's costing you, not just in dollars and cents. You're not going to be able to do anything. And everything that happens when things happen are going to end up looking like new debt.

1:20:30Dave Ramsey:You don't have the margin to save up for the next car. You don't have the margin to save up for the kid's college. You don't have the margin to save for your investing, for your future. You're just broke people living in a big house. Yeah. I should say that we have about$60 ,000 also in the bank. I've got about$30 ,000 in my retirement. And the older kid has about$7 ,000. Yeah, that's before you took out a mortgage that was 70 % of your take-home pay. Right. And I mean, I love that you told us that, but what does that mean to you? That doesn't change the situation that this is 50, in some cases, 75 % of your take-home pay.

1:21:10Yeah, I guess it doesn't change it. You're right. It just makes me feel like a little more comfortable having that little bit. If I'm short$1 ,000, I can take it out of that. Right. But when that's gone, what are you going to do?

1:21:23Dave Ramsey:Because you're going backward the whole time. What Dave highlighted is the thing I want you to be thinking about, which is it's going to cost money to do the things that are going to be required out of your life. save for kids college, help your kids, you know, buy their first car, take a family vacation. Those things require margin to save up sinking funds for or to invest for. You don't have any margin and you need to keep the emergency fund. You don't want to, you know, drain that down and dwindle that down. This is not an emergency. This is a you were refusing to face reality. So if I'm in your shoes, what I'm going to do is sit down and have a serious discussion about our incomes.

1:22:05Dave Ramsey:And not in two years when I go back to work. I've got to go back to work now. Man. And we both got to get our income up. And if we can't do that, then what we're saying is we're not willing to trade those hours of work and those changes in work for this house. because this house is not a blessing right now. It's a curse. I know it feels like a blessing when you walk out in the yard and you're looking at it and you smile. But then when you turn back in and you go to the kitchen table and the checkbook's laying there, that's when you know it's a curse. And so it's, when you're strapped to something like this, it does not bring joy.

1:22:48Dave Ramsey:And so I want peace for you guys. I want joy for you. I want prosperity for you. and the numbers you're giving me make me ache for you instead. So if I were in your shoes, I'm going to work on this for a little while, but after the first of the year when the grass starts getting green early in the spring, I'm putting this thing on the market if we haven't changed our career track substantially by then. I wonder if there's any way, 40 acres is a decent amount, I wonder if there's any way if they sold off some of those end pieces and took that cash. Might parcel it off and sell off a couple five-acre tracks or 10-acre tracks and dump that onto the mortgage, get the balance down.

1:23:27Dave Ramsey:It takes some of your$60 ,000. You've got too much sitting there. Throw 30 of that in there and see if you can't get this balance down to where you can swing it. That's not a bad idea at all, Jade. Kind of destroys part of the dream. It does. But the dream's turned into a nightmare from where I'm sitting. Yeah. And that's, whew, this is rough. so um there was an old book out years ago that uh dr stephen covey put out and it was made famous because it was kind of like the total money makeover it stayed on the bestseller list for like a decade there are several books that have done that men are from mars women are from venus you remember that book i've heard of it it was on there for about eight years yeah same thing um Strange little book.

1:24:11Dave Ramsey:But, yeah, there's books that hung out on the bestseller list for years and years and years. Atomic Habits, and most recent, is a great book a friend of ours wrote. But the book was The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And one of those habits was to begin with the end in mind. Crystal and her husband violated that rule. they just started building. Whoopee! And then they discovered they needed a subject tank. And then they discovered they needed like water line. And then we needed shingles for the roof. Didn't think of that. Yeah. And horrible, horrible planning. It's kind of biblical though too.

1:25:00That scripture that says...

1:25:02Dave Ramsey:Begin with the end in mind. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. About starting a tower and not counting the cost. And then they look at him and say, look at this guy. He started building a tower and he can't finish it. Right. Jesus said, don't build a tower without first counting the cost lest you get halfway up and you're unable to finish. And all who see you begin to mock you and say, this man began to build and was unable to finish. Begin with the end in mind. And so this is a mistake that a lot of people make. Crystal's not a bad person. Her husband's not a bad person. They just violated a basic concept of strategic thought and it will burn your butt.

1:25:38Dave Ramsey:and it'll put you in a place where you have pain in the long term or at least in the short term. Selling this house on the short term is going to be painful. Selling off some of that acreage is going to be painful. Keeping it is going to be very painful.

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1:27:46Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. radio scott is with us in phoenix hey scott how are you i'm doing good how you doing dave better than i deserve what's up me too love that thing um well we're kind of in a predicament um we're we've got a data center that's going to be built within about 400 yards of our house in the neighborhood, and we're just wondering what would Dave do. We've got our primary home is paid for, which is worth about probably around$600. We've got a house that we just inherited that is just closing, which we're going to net probably about$416 out of that.

1:28:34And then we've got a mountain house up in the woods that's worth about right around$600 as well.

1:28:46Dave Ramsey:So your primary residence was 400 yards from a commercial zoning. That's what they said. It's commercial. And now they're putting an industrial million-square-foot data center on it. Yeah, but I mean, the point is they could have put a warehouse there anyway. Absolutely. So you're 400 yards and have always been 400 yards from an industrial slash commercial area. Yeah, it's been zoned commercial commerce. Yeah. Okay.

1:29:25Dave Ramsey:I'm both retired. What I'm trying to navigate is the actual facts of the impact of this versus the obvious emotions of it. Yeah, I want to know, Scott, what do you perceive the impact to be? Well, from some of the studies, it sounds like, you know, the noise, the total footprint of the environment is going to be a negative. And then some of the real estate people are saying the negative impact is going to be about 25 % reduced in housing around there, which is – who knows what it's going to be. Yeah, you don't know because you've got to sell it first. Right. So I do not know what is going to happen with that because I've never – we're experiencing this all over the country right now.

1:30:22Dave Ramsey:in different neighborhoods, so to speak, or different areas of town. And so we don't know how much of this is – so when you're facing something like this, there's always – there's a percentage of it that's drama, and there's a percentage of it that's actual facts. And the truth is the real estate agents are somewhat working on the drama side. They don't know. I mean, you know, we know what you've been told. You've been told it's going to be noisy. There's a detrimental effect on the entire environment in the area and all that kind of thing. And then maybe it's worse or maybe it's better when they actually build it.

1:31:10Dave Ramsey:So the unknown is more scary than the actual known. so it might be a mistake when's the thing coming out of the ground well they're they're building it right now they're putting the steel up now okay good that's good news so in a year we're going to know a lot more than we know right now

1:31:36Dave Ramsey:right yeah that's that's true yeah i mean it could be quieter negative it could let's pretend that the drama is night and the and all the anger and everything is which is not saying it's not valid it's just there but let's pretend that that's 50 percent and 50 percent reality so it's not quite as noisy as everybody says it's not quite the negative impact as everybody says and then we settle in and your house actually brings about about what it's brought right before all this was announced. The problem is if you sell your house now, someone buying it is going to discount it based on the drama, not based on the reality.

1:32:19Dave Ramsey:And we don't know. The reality could be worse. The reality could be better than the discussion. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. In my experience, these things are not usually as bad as whatever these things are. But I mean, a negative impact to a piece of property is not nearly as bad as everybody thought it was going to be so i had an experience we owned a piece of property and the hoa was all up in arms they were putting a walmart uh down the street about four or five pieces of property away it was a commercial piece of property it was zoned for retail walmart didn't do anything wrong they just put a walmart where walmarts go and everybody's like oh god the neighborhood's gonna fail it's gonna lose 50 A year and a half later, the neighborhood was up.

1:33:07Dave Ramsey:In other words, it had no effect. Wow. Except all the drama and the yelling and the screaming and the picketing and all the stuff around it. And if you had sold it to when the picketers are out there, you'd have given your stinking house away for no reason. Because 18 months later, after everybody's pulse rate went down, there was net, net, net, no effect. Now, I'm not saying that's the truth about a data center. I don't know. I'd be curious to know, especially if he lives in an area where there's other residences near him, if anybody else is selling, if you can kind of survey and see what's going on, that also could give you some information.

1:33:48Dave Ramsey:I'm pretty sure you're going to sell your house too cheap if you sell it right now. Yeah. If it's me and I own a bunch of real estate, I'm going to ride this out a little bit and let the waves calm down and see what the actual flood is. see what the actual you know cause okay hurricane's coming you know and like yeah and it rained you can do some i would think you could do some fair research on areas similar to yours similar size data centers i feel like you could look out there and see what's gone on so far if there's a data center that's been up 18 months what and within 400 yards somewhere in a metro area what did it do to property value.

1:34:29Dave Ramsey:That's a good piece of research. I don't know that. There's enough of them going up that you might find that. But yeah, my life experience tells me that the drama is always worse than the reality. Generally. And it's not always, but I mean, often enough that I'm going to probably sit there and ride this out unless I did research that told me otherwise. Uh-huh. Yep. And I got to believe it's still somewhat new, but I feel like there's something out there there's got to be some numbers out there that'll give you at least a sense but i i'm pretty sure you're gonna sell your house too cheap if you sell it right now yeah i could be wrong i mean i i really am just discussing this with you out loud i don't i don't really have any data or anything to back this up other than years of real estate and stuff like the walmart example those are real things that really happened i mean and but the number of times i mean but it's it's kind Like for me, it's, you know, the, you know, the hurricane is coming and then it rains.

1:35:34Dave Ramsey:And the wind blew for four hours. And, but we all acted like that the house was going to be completely blown over. And it was basically a rainstorm. Yeah, it may not affect you at all. Because it wasn't what everybody, but, you know, you kind of got to prepare for it emotionally, but it didn't happen, you know? And so I don't know. I can't think of, I mean, anything else you could figure out where there was an environmental impact to a property close to a residential? What did it actually do?

1:36:31Dave Ramsey:Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:37:23Dave Ramsey:Jane is in Charlotte. Hi, Jane. How are you? I'm doing fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? My husband makes$210 ,000 a year. I make$75 ,000. He contributes 17 % of his salary to our household account just because that's what he deems that he wants to give. And I've always given 100 % of mine. But just recently I said, you know what, I'm going to give 17 % as well. But it ends up to where I have to give more to pay our bills. But my question is, should I be giving 17 % or should I be giving 8.5 % because my salary is so much less than his? How old are you guys? 58. And how long have you been married?

1:38:1640 years. Oh, boy. Okay.

1:38:22Dave Ramsey:I want to say this as gently as I can. This is tremendously dysfunctional. What kind of human being is married to a woman for 40 years and gives 17 % towards the household? And what kind of human being accepts this arrangement? I understand that, but I'm at a loss because he puts his foot down, and that's what he says is going to go, and I don't know another way to make it be different. Well, you're 40 years too late to raise as much hell as you should have raised, but I guess better late than never. Well, it's only been this way for 23 years. What changed? What started this? How about no more?

1:39:11Dave Ramsey:We're not doing it this way anymore. My Bible says to leave and cleave. My Bible says that, and the two are one. And we are now one flesh. And if you want to continue to live in this house with me, buddy, it's now 100%. Yeah, I'm hearing. Otherwise, I'm going to knock a noggin on your head. Yeah. Nut. This is nutty. Yeah. Yeah, you've really got two choices here, Jane. You can participate in the dysfunction by saying, oh, I'm only going to do 17%. Actually, I'm only going to do 8%. And you can participate in it, or you can do what Dave said and draw a line and say, here's the way it needs to be in order for me to continue.

1:39:59Yeah. But is the 8 % fair? No.

1:40:04Dave Ramsey:No, nothing in this discussion is fair. 100 % of both of you is fair and correct and the right way to operate a household. Anything less and you're participating in the madness. But you're not going to do that, are you? You're not going to cause this big a stink. Because what I'm talking about is turning his little world upside down. Which needs to happen, darling. I understand and I've said those things before but it doesn't work okay I think you need to see a therapist and a marriage counselor is what I think and and have them help you decide what you're willing to do if you want to live in the middle of crazy town just build you a tent kiddo and just live there you've been doing it for 40 years so or at least 23 or whatever it was, he decided this absurd bud idea that he thinks he's a roommate instead of a husband.

1:41:09Dave Ramsey:So, Jane, for 40 years, Sharon Ramsey has not earned an income since our oldest daughter was born. So what if I told her I was going to put in 17 %? Do you think that hillbilly woman would have put up with that? I'm just telling you, she wouldn't have. There have been frying pans involved, and she's from East Tennessee. That's an Olympic event there. Wow. Yeah. This is tough. Yeah, honey, I'm sorry. I feel for her. I do not have a fix other than to try to embold you and give you verbiage to sit down and talk to someone and get the help that you guys needed 23 years ago and you still need today.

1:41:51Dave Ramsey:because what he is proposing and what he has put you under is what we call financial abuse. And you guys need help. This is weird. It's not right. It's not normal. It's unethical. So how many ways do I need to say it? And so I would not want my friend Jane to tolerate it, and I would not want my friend her husband to continue to be a bad husband. oh boy yeah that's tough you're gonna have to it's gonna require a lot yeah a lot yeah and these these patterns are deeply ingrained at this point so yeah because she's asking us to give advice on how to how to be more dysfunction yeah i can't gauge the level of crazy that i want to participate in.

1:42:45Dave Ramsey:I just don't do crazy. So there we go. And this is crazy, Jane. It's crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. Wow. I'm sorry, kiddo. I hope you guys can get some help for your marriage. You desperately, desperately need it. All right. Hunter is in Phoenix. Hey, Hunter, what's up in your world? Hey guys, how we doing today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hey, I just want some information or some help on how to tackle some debt. I'm a recent college graduate. Cool. What's your degree in? Construction management. Good. You get a new job? Yes, sir. I started in June. Awesome. What are you making?

1:43:27Dave Ramsey:I make$78 ,000 a year's salary. Good for you. Way to go. Plus bonuses and stuff, huh? Yeah, we get a 401k bonus at the end of the year. Awesomeness. All right. Good for you. That's a great job coming out of school. Congratulations. Yeah, very nice. And how much debt have you got, Hunter? Appreciate that. So I got out of school with only about$11 ,000 worth of student debt. Good. And then I got about, this is what's going to hit, is$33 ,000 in a truck loan. Okay. Okay. And so you celebrated your graduation and your new job by going and doing a stupid thing. exactly you are 100 correct you wouldn't be the first no this is like a standard it's the number one mistake new college graduates make they go buy a new car number one mistake so yeah you did it and you did it good you went big yeah you did okay so you got third you gotta hit a home run she got 44 over the fence$44 ,000 in debt if you keep the truck and you live on beans and rice and you have no life, you could be debt-free in a year.

1:44:36Dave Ramsey:If you don't want to trade the truck for beans and rice, you could get rid of the truck now and be debt-free really quick and have a decent life. But you're not going out to eat. You're not going on a date other than to throw a Frisbee. And you're not going on vacation. You're not doing nothing except cleaning up this dadgum mess you made right after you graduated. You did really good until then. Did I hear you say, we may have cut you off, did you say you moved back in with your parents? Yeah, I chose to move back in after college so I didn't have to pay rent and tried stacking up cash. Yeah, how much cash do you have?

1:45:10Right now, I got about$4 ,000 in a Roth IRA and about$3 ,000 in a high-yield savings.

1:45:17Dave Ramsey:Okay, no more Roth, no more investing. Clean up the state and loan and get the truck paid off and move out. Go get your life. You make$78 ,000 a year. You need to get a life. Go get your one-bedroom apartment. I personally would sell the truck, but if you want to keep it and scratch and claw and be done with it in about a year, you can do it. And you need an extra job if you're going to do that. Let's just work all the time. Any chance you can get extra work with the construction folks, or is that it? Not with the company I work for currently because we're a full-time salary. I can probably do some weekend piece work with other companies.

1:45:54Good. Yeah, I mean, that's the name of the game. Go do all you can do if you want to keep a truck.

1:46:00Dave Ramsey:So I'd go get a one-bedroom apartment, and I would decide whether I'm keeping the truck, and I would work all the time until I'm 100 % debt-free, and that has to be in under a year, and I'd get the one-bedroom apartment in the next 30 days. Yeah, I would. Yes, you do not get to say, I want this truck, therefore I get to stay in my parents' house to pay for it. No. That is a no-no-no. No, no-no-no-no-no. No. Big no-no. No, no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no. I live with my mommy because of my truck. No, it's just something oxymoronic about that. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't sit right with me, Dave.

1:47:25We'll see you next time. to learn Dave's playbook for investing and wealth planning. We're going to break down 401ks, mutual funds, passing on wealth, and more. So join us next week, September 1st and 2nd. Tickets start at$199. Do not wait. Get yours today at ramsaysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes.

1:48:02Dave Ramsey:Buying or selling a home is a huge decision, and with so much conflicting market news out there about housing, it can be hard to know what's really going on. We're here to help you understand what the market's actually doing, not what all the drama is, so you can buy or sell with confidence. We recommend a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. Those rates are hovering just below 6%, about 5.5 % right now. and don't wait on a rate that you can't predict. You date the rate, you marry the house. You always refinance later if the rates come down. Remember, no matter what the market's doing, only buy when you're ready.

1:48:39Dave Ramsey:You're out of debt. You have your emergency fund. Median home prices dipped below$429 ,000 last month, which is a 2.4 % decrease from the previous year. Not exactly a bursting bubble, but certainly a stabilized market. Good news if you're ready to buy. One in five listings had a price cut last month, and there's 1.1 million homes on the market as we speak. So real estate's good. Everything's fine. Breathe. Breathe. You can check all of this out at RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes. Josh is in Birmingham. Hey, Josh, what's up? Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

1:49:22Dave Ramsey:How can I help? Yes, sir. So I'm 30 years old. I have an annuity. It matures in about two months. And I've spoken to a financial advisor and trying to figure out if I should use him or if I should just do what I have planned on my own. So I'm just thinking about trying to transition it to another annuity and then systematically trying to withdraw some of that money out over the next five years or so to get it out of the annuity. Why don't you just cash it out?

1:49:56Dave Ramsey:I thought you said it was up. You're not going to owe much taxes on it. How much is in it? $200 ,000. So it's about$950 ,000. I would owe taxes on about$200 ,000. I'm sorry, how much is the balance of the annuity? What's it worth? About$950 ,000. Okay. And what was it when you took it out? So it would mature in a couple months, and then I would take it out. The balance would roughly be about$950 ,000. I know. What was it originally when it started? Originally, it was about$1.1 million. So there's a lot of fees and a lot of details on that. Okay, so you've lost money on the annuity? I've lost$200 ,000.

1:50:47No, so the post-heifer was about$760 ,000. And so, yeah, over time, I probably have, yeah. I guess I've kind of...

1:50:54Dave Ramsey:Okay, what I'm trying to determine is how much money did you put in it when you started it? 1.1? It was a work accident, and I used it to live on for about seven years or so. Okay, so that's what reduced the balance. Yeah, yeah. I see. Okay, so it's 1.1 went in from an accident, and then you lived off of some of it. How much did you withdraw to live on? I was withdrawing probably around$50 ,000 a year. For how many years? Probably about seven years now. Okay,$350 ,000 from 1.1 puts us at, what,$700 ,000, right? Or$650 ,000. No,$750 ,000. Okay. All right, so$750 ,000, and then it's worth$900 ,000.

1:51:48So you would have taxes on$150 ,000, correct? Yeah, roughly. It depends on what the market does, the time that it matures on that day. Yeah, yeah, I understand. I understand.

1:51:59Dave Ramsey:But roughly, we're giving out numbers here. Okay. Yes, sir. Yeah. So I would get out of this, and I would get into some good mutual funds with a good SmartVestor Pro. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro to find somebody in your area there at Birmingham that we recommend with the heart of a teacher. Let them sit down with you and crunch the numbers. I'm not going to do that here on the air. Are you back able to work or do you still have to draw off it? Oh, no, I've been working for about five years now. Okay. All right. So from this point forward, you could just let it grow and leave it alone and just become wealthy, correct?

1:52:33Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Yeah, that's the idea. Yes, sir. So here's the problem with the annuity. Like you said, it's got a lot of fees, all right, that aren't necessary for your situation. You instead could buy mutual funds that don't have as many fees, half the fees probably or so. And then you can pick good growth stock mutual funds that are growing. The market has averaged close to 12. If you only, and we're about 12 year to date this year, and it's only August. Okay. But if you only make 10, your 750 would grow to, in seven years, it'll be 1.5. In seven more years, 14 years from today, how old are you? 30. 30.

1:53:26Dave Ramsey:So when you're 44, you would have$3 million. Okay. And when you withdraw the money out of it, you will only have capital gains tax, not ordinary income, which is double capital gains. And when you're in an annuity, the growth is at ordinary income. Yes, sir. As you're about to find out on that$150 ,000 worth of gain you've had, approximately. I'm trying to figure out what your basis is. But you need to get someone to actually crunch the numbers and go, this is actually what's going to occur. But the problem is when your$750 turns into$3 million, you're going to pay either a 35 % or a 40 % tax on that or a 15 % tax on that.

1:54:08Dave Ramsey:That's a huge difference. And that's if it's in the exact same mutual funds inside the annuity as outside the annuity. Yes, sir. So I'm going to pay some taxes today. Well, when it's up in a month or so, right? Yes, sir. So Fidelity does have like an annuity option that has low - Honey, what did I just tell you for the last five minutes? No more annuities. No. That was the takeaway. No, trust me. I get it. Yeah, I get it. Okay. Then why did you just ask me about an annuity? No, you don't need to do an annuity. Don't do it. I would not do that. You do whatever you want to do, honey, but I wouldn't do it.

1:54:47Dave Ramsey:So check out RamseySolutions.com. Click on a SmartVestor Pro. Sit down with them. I personally use a Smart Investor Pro to help me with issues like this to try to make sure my brain's working. Jade and Sam do the same thing as Dave and Sharon, as Rachel and Winston, as George and Whitney. Everybody here on the show, John and Sheila, we all use professional help like that. And we do this for a living. Why does he think he wants an annuity? What are they saying out in the market that is making people go, yep, I'm going to do that? Because I can look at it and say, this is a terrible idea. But how is it being marketed that people aren't realizing that it's a terrible idea?

1:55:26What are they saying?

1:55:28Dave Ramsey:Well, I don't know what he's hearing, but how is it being marketed? An annuity, a variable annuity has a couple of functions that if you're a first-time investor and you're scared, they give you some comfort. Okay? If you put money in a variable annuity, it's mutual funds inside of an annuity. Right. And you can pick the mutual funds inside the annuity. So you can pick good ones, and he has done pretty good probably. All right. And the problem is it grows at ordinary income tax rates, not at capital gains tax rate. But they will give you a guarantee of two things. One is that if you put$750 ,000 in, if you leave it alone seven years, we'll guarantee you$750 ,000 principal.

1:56:11Dave Ramsey:You will not lose your principal. You will not lose. So there it is. Uh-huh. And we'll also guarantee you a 5 % rate of return. Which is poo-poo. Exactly. Because then you can probably make almost three times that, two times that anyway. So I'd rather take the low interest rate and know that I'm not going to have a loss. No, it's a guarantee of a low interest rate. You don't necessarily, if, the bottom line is these guarantees are both worthless because the market, if you pick mutual, decent mutual funds is going to far outperform either one of those guarantees. So they're not going to activate.

1:56:43Right. You're never going to see them. That person doesn't know that.

1:56:45Dave Ramsey:And so they're just got this in the back of their mind that I can do this and I can, I've got a guarantee. At least I've got a guarantee. And I'm not going to lose my principal because everybody knows you lose all your money in the stock market and all this bull crap, right? But, you know, in 2023 it went up 26%. In 2024 it went up 25%. In 2025 it went up 18%. And so far in 26 it's up almost 13%. So they're selling you a sense of security you never needed. It'd have to really suck going forward for you to be back down to your original principal and only getting five. Yep. Thank you.

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1:58:35Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 30 and 21. Whether you turn to the right or the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, this is the way, walk in it. Dolly Parton said, if you don't like the road you're walking, start paving another one. We today, depending on when you're hearing this, I don't know, but today we learned that Dolly's in the arms of Jesus at 80 years old. She was an absolute treasure. and we talked about her in the first segment as we came on the air today but um yeah all of uh nashville and tennessee for sure is grieving i'll tell you something else about her i didn't mention in that first segment um almost regardless of who you talk about uh in the music business the acting business the business you and i are in podcasting or whatever else almost everyone that has gotten some notoriety has a lot of fans but there's almost always someone that's got something to say well i was at the restaurant one time and so and so negative something negative you never heard a negative word on her ever no and in this town of nashville a bunch of gossips yeah that's weird i mean she was golden yeah never heard anybody say anything negative i mean it didn't take about 30 seconds finding somebody say something negative about me right they're everywhere you know but i've never heard anybody say anything about her um and if they did they discredited themselves instantaneously you know but never in my presence i've never i've never i've heard people say something i've got a lot of good friends in that music business all that they'll say so and so and so and so well yeah but he does this in this yeah well okay but you didn't so but um but not dolly not miss dolly wow absolutely incredible human being All right.

2:00:30Dave Ramsey:Alex is in Las Vegas, Nevada. Hi, Alex. How are you? Hi, I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? My question was, should I file bankruptcy? What's going on, kiddo? Sorry, I didn't want to get emotional. That's okay. It's scary. So I'm 31. I have five kids. For the past three years, I've been in a custody battle with one of the fathers of my children. So I've had to take out loans. And recently I had to take out a title loan on my car to give my attorney the final payment. And I also had to take out a payday loan as well. Did you win? And so I don't know yet. So the judge is going to do a written decision.

2:01:34But my attorney is pretty confident that the other person had no case and basically said we have nothing to worry about, just wait for the judge to do the written decision. However, like getting up to this point has cost me like thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Yeah, I heard that.

2:01:52Dave Ramsey:What I was trying to figure out is that the bleeding was over, and it sounds like it's over. Okay. Okay. But the patient is wounded, eh? So, okay. Yeah. So how much does the payday lender rip off? So the payday loan that I took out was for like$600. So every time, I make$50 ,000. I know, I know. They're awful. And the title loan on the car was how much? $3 ,500. Okay. And what other debt do you have? so i have about like total i have 68 000 in debt i have a repossession from like 2023 um what's the balance on that so that's 11 000 okay and what's the rest of the 68 school loans uh 25 000 and i'm still in college and then I owe my old attorney$14 ,000 and then I owe the IRS close to like$7 ,000.

2:02:58Okay, all right.

2:03:01Dave Ramsey:And what do you make? And then a credit card debt, I have about$900. And what do you make? $50 ,000. Doing what? I'm a medical billing and coding specialist. And how old are the five kids? So 15, almost 16, and then 13, 10, 7, and 2. Okay. Okay. All right. Are you plugged into a good church there in Las Vegas? Yes, I am. Okay. Have you talked to your pastor and the counseling team about your situation? No. No, you have not. No, you have not. You need to today. Okay. It's their obligation to help you. It's what they live for. They're going to want to help you. You have five kids, and you're on a shoestring budget, okay?

2:03:55Dave Ramsey:And they can. So let's kind of go back to your original question, and then let's walk you forward out of that. So first thing we're going to do is get some people around you. The second thing we're going to do is get them to help you a little bit with some of this. I don't expect them to pay it all off or anything, and you don't either, okay? Okay. Student loans and IRS are not bankruptable. Repo is not collecting today. And the, what was the$14 ,000 again? My previous attorney. Oh, that's an old attorney. He's not collecting today either. He's waiting because he knows you're broke. Probably be surprised when you pay.

2:04:35Dave Ramsey:Credit cards, you've probably not been paying on them because you've been dumping everything into this child case. So really the two that are the most pressing are the$600 and the$3 ,500. Agreed? Yes. Yeah. Because you're really not doing much with the rest of it. Yeah. So what I would recommend is not paying anyone and clearing the title loan as soon as possible. And if the church can help you with that some, I think that would be awesome. and get your car back because you're going to need that. And then we'll argue about what we're going to do is settling with the payday lender that screwed you, but you walked in there and asked for it.

2:05:17Dave Ramsey:And I understand why, but you still did. And so we've got to clear that little 600 up before it becomes 1 ,820 minutes. Right, right, right. And then we'll begin to work through the rest of this. Here's the neat thing. So the student loan's just sitting there on hardship deferral. Just call and put it on hardship deferral. I'm not paying anything right now. Besides that, you're in school, you said. What are you doing in school? I'm getting my bachelor's in associates of science and human resources. Okay. When will it be done? In two years. Are you continuing to go into debt for this? Yes. Okay.

2:05:56Dave Ramsey:We've got to stop that. Yeah. We have to clean up this mess. All of those things in your rearview mirror, all those monsters are chasing you down the road. And they're destabilizing you emotionally. They're destabilizing your whole household and everything else. Okay? So for right now, we've got to put school on hold until we can pay for it unless they want to extend you some kind of help as a single mom with five kids. And they might if you went into the counseling office there. If they'll give you a free semester or something, then you can stay in. But otherwise, you've got to put it on hold.

2:06:30Otherwise, you're going to have$50 ,000 or$60 ,000 of student loan debt when you're done.

2:06:35Dave Ramsey:You've got to stop this. And you can't just keep piling this up and then get out. And bankruptcy doesn't fix this because most of it's not bankruptable. Yeah, you've got IRS. You've got student loans. That's the major pieces of this. Yeah. I mean, you can settle this repo for like two or three grand. It'll go away when you can scrape up some money later. So order of attack is this. Here's your order. Here's what I want you to do. First call is when you get off of here, I want you to call your pastor. I want you to go sit down and show them your budget, show them your situation, tell them you talk to us on the air, and that I said I thank you that they will give you some help.

2:07:06Dave Ramsey:And they probably will if it's a decent-sized church, okay? And if they could help you clear up that car, that'd be great, or part of it, that'd be great. And even better would be the car and the payday lender. And then let's just start trying to get current. Let's get the IRS gone. Let's get the attorney gone. You know, let's just start developing an order of attack down through these things and stop borrowing money on school until you get this mess cleaned up. And then you pay cash for school as you go and don't go further and further and further into debt. And, you know, it's this is not going to be a quick fix.

2:07:44Dave Ramsey:But the problem is you've been getting killed here, death by a thousand cuts. And so we got to heal one cut at a time. And it's going to take a minute. Now take a little bit, a little bit of work and a little bit of help. We'll help you on our end. We'll put you into a situation with one of our coaches. I'm going to give you one of our coaches for free. Christian will take care of that to coach you in person. And we won't charge you a dime. And we're going to put you into Entree Leadership and make sure you're okay. Entree Leadership. Put you into every dollar and make sure you're okay. We'll be back with you before you know it.

2:08:16Dave Ramsey:In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.