"Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?"

29:18I did it as a side hustle because we were just looking for more income, and it just exploded into something I could have never had. Paul, I'm already sold. I'm already sold. You don't have to sell me. You just got to talk to her about it. And the bottom line is, is you're going to be just fine. You're going to be just fine. Yeah, how much does she make, Paul? She probably made about as much as me. I mean, I would say she's probably in the 70. Yeah, so y 'all are making double. So you're going to have a$150 ,000 household income almost immediately. And double of what you guys need to run your household, too.

29:48Yeah, you're making a lot. And you've done really good with your finances. You're not in debt. You've got an emergency fund. Everything about this is stable, stable, stable, stable, stable. Hey, man, go do it. This is the time. Fly and be free. Please, please, please quit that awful job. Please. I know, and he said he's the sole provider. Have you ever heard he's not? He's not the sole provider. That's it. So she's, I mean. Guys out there in America, if you've ever heard the term golden handcuffs, you just witnessed it. you've just heard the discussion this is golden handcuffs and it is a it's a fallacy so my favorite story on this is my grandpa lost a business in the great depression and he got a job at alcoa aluminum in the accounting department he worked there 38 years because it was stable because it was a good job because he was scared and he couldn't he did he didn't have yeah you got an income after the depression he was happy to have a job and grateful to have a job and my Grandma was the same way, and he worked there until he retired.

30:50And he was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful man. So I printed the financial peace book and went out on my own after we went broke, and we're trying to get the financial peace book sold. And the publisher sent me an email one day that said, we just sold our one millionth copy of financial peace. Then my phone rang, and it was my grandmother, and she said, I was praying for you this morning. I think you need to get a job.

31:20Isn't that sweet? She's so sweet. It was sweet. They're like, you're not Dave's. Dave is not working. He's writing books. Well, I'm just worried about you. I mean, you're self-employed and it's not stable. Go get them, Paul.

32:05I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. and when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours.

32:44Over 43 ,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real-time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. so you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at netsuite.com slash ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash ramsey.

33:41Steve is in Raleigh. Hi, Steve. How are you? I'm doing fine. It's great to be with you guys. You too. How can we help? So I'm 62 years old, and I've been trying to think about retirement. The things that are holding me back are, well, health insurance is one thing, and also the fact that no money will be coming in, but all money will be going out. and I'm having a hard time getting comfortable with that. And what I really want is somebody to tell me that I can stop. What do you mean no money will be coming in? You mean you won't be earning an income? That's right. Okay. And so do you have a pension?

34:25Do you have a 401k nest egg? Yeah, yeah. I've got 401ks and IRAs and all that stuff. Okay. No pension? No pension. How much is in all those accounts? $3.5 million. Okay. All right. Well, if no money's coming in, it's just because you're not taking any of it is all. Okay. Because let's just be, what do you make a year? $175. Okay. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you. Well done, Steve. I assume you started with nothing and became a multimillionaire. Yep. I'm very proud of you. That's amazing. All names. American Dream is not dead. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Steve. So you understand that 3.5 invested in good growth stock mutual funds, if it averaged 10%, would be$350 ,000.

35:17Yeah. Income that it produces without touching the nest egg. Right. Which is twice what you make now. Right. I guess that, you know, there's still, you know, some years it's going to be up, some years it's going to be down. What do I do in the down years? Use some of it. Yeah. Okay. So the down years very seldom are below 5%. Find a time that the stock market made under 5%, the number of times in the last 30 years, hardly ever. Right. Okay. Like maybe two. And so you use a little bit of the 3.5 maybe. But maybe don't take the whole 350 off. Maybe take 200 off and let it grow by 150 to cover the down years.

36:11Right. It's impossible unless you lose your mind and join Congress for you to go through this money before you die. Is your house paid off and everything, Steve? Any debt? No, no debt. House paid. Okay. How long you been married? You know, I'm not married. What is it you want to do with the rest of your life? I've still got to figure that out. I would like to travel some, you know, life events, somewhat recent life events have made me realize that what I should be doing or what I feel like I should be doing is spending time with people that I love and people that love me. And the whole, you know, pushing paper around is not a good use of my time anymore.

37:00What do you do for a living? I'm an attorney. Okay. All right. Cool. Do you have family, Steve, around? Yeah. Yeah. I've got a brother and sister. Okay. That's great. Okay. Well, I'll tell you two things. One is, yes, you're in excellent financial condition. You've done a wonderful job and you're able to retire. And if you pulled off 200 and let it grow by 150 a year, this would run in perpetuation. And I don't know who you're going to leave the 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.04 million. Oh, 4.5 million because it's going to keep growing because you're not going to use it all. So who are you going to leave all that to?

37:39So easily, this is a no-brainer equation. You're easily able to quit. Then I will also tell you, because I'm your age, I'm 65, I'm a little older, and that you have friends and I have friends who retirement wasn't good to them emotionally. Right. They didn't know what to do with themselves. So I would develop something I'm going to do. I don't care what it is, and it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week. It doesn't have to be pushing paper. You do have a unique skill and license that you could probably do some things. It would be an unbelievable blessing to some ministries and to some nonprofits from an attorney's perspective and not strain you even a little bit but give you something to lay your hand to the plow so you know you're still planting some corn in this earth.

38:28Right. And you just need something to do. Netflix doesn't cut it. Yeah, that's true. You're right. Yeah, that's going to be key for me is having a plan. Yeah, so I think I would develop that before I pull the trigger on this. But the question you called here for is, mathematically, this is a no-brainer. Okay. It's 2x of a no-brainer. Right. Okay, that's good. Yeah, you're in great shape. Sit down with your financial coach or your financial advisor and talk about how you can draw$200 ,000 off of this and make sure it's invested in something that's averaging, what the market's averaging, and you'll be just fine.

39:10Well done, Steve. Yeah. Man, that's amazing. It's amazing. And it's interesting. Whatever happens, you know, we didn't ask, but he said, recent events have made me realize, oh, wow. And it's use those. Those are gifts. Whatever that is, whether it was a tragedy or a gift or a blessing, whatever that thing was that caused this kind of change of heart to a degree, listen to that. I mean, there's something in that for you. Yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very smart to do that. And you ought to be doing that at all ages as you go along. But also when you have these certain appointments, God appointments that come across your path, you need to listen to them.

39:49You're right, Rachel. Very good. Jefferson, wait a minute, before we do that, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money but you're not getting anywhere? You're not, Steve. Well, maybe you made changes and had a few wins but it's still not working. Well, this is exactly what Jade Warshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is all about. This is a Ramsey book that takes an honest, in-depth look at the emotional side of money and gives you real tools and a path to become the hero in your own story. So you're going to have to fight through some emotional stuff as you fight through this money thing.

40:25Whether you're broke and trying to get out of debt or maybe you're on the other end where Steve is, all of these are emotional-based decisions, and Jade can really help with that. She is straight shooting, telling you the way it is. You can pre-order this book right now. Now it comes out first of January, but right now you can get it for$24.99, and you get over$100 in free bonus items. This is amazing. Our enhanced audio book on this thing is crazy good. You're going to get that. Early access to the e-book, you're going to get that. Instant access to an exclusive video with Jade called Your Financial Checkup, you're going to get that.

40:58And you get an exclusive three-week online book club and live Q &A with Jade. You're going to get that. And I'm telling you, Jade will motivate you. She'll meet you where you are and help you get to the next level. Pre-order today at RamseySolutions.com slash store. Rachel, Steve, and our caller before that trying to quit the warehouse job and go in business with yourself, it is amazing that when you are resilient, and people are talking a lot about resilience these days, that things have been pretty easy for a long time around America. and when things are hard people don't know what to do because they don't know how to do hard stuff and so teach your kids to do hard stuff boys and girls and teach yourself to do hard stuff practice doing uncomfortable things because these are the actions of people that win when you do that over a long period of time take a job in a warehouse and you just get up and you go to work every day and you do your work and you stick to it a lot of people don't have to stick to it does That guy had stick.

42:03He just stuck with it for 20 freaking years. When Steve has been an attorney and he just got it done, he keeps putting money aside. He builds up a$3.5 million nest egg. Then when you stop this resilience, this pushing, this scratching and clawing and persevering, sometimes we don't know what to do. Like, I finally, I got there. Yeah. I went through the tape. I won the race or I finished the race. Now what? Yeah. And your brain and your life rhythm is so bent on resilience and scratching and clawing that it's hard to stop and take a step back and go, wait a minute, this worked. This landscaping thing's big enough.

42:45It worked. It's almost like the celebration of your hard work to enjoy it. Enjoy the fruits, right? It's like people that call in and they don't know how to spend money because they've been saving their whole life. Same idea, right? It's a different muscle. But enjoy the fruits of what you've done. You really have to make a conscious thing. We see that a lot these days. A conscious effort to say, if I've been busting it to downshift and enjoy a little bit, it's a different gear. It's a different gear. But it's a good gear.

43:26If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old-fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front.

44:12Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55 ,000 people across the nation settle over$600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's guardianlit.com slash Ramsey.

45:09Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. So, Rachel, I was on Fox a little bit earlier, and we're talking about affordability for housing, and this people not being able to afford a house and the sense of depression about that and so forth. And so I've done a little bit of discussion and analysis on that. And I want to let you guys out there know a couple of things that we're thinking and we're seeing around here. There's kind of two sides to the coin.

45:51Side one of the coin is what could be done. So house prices are affected always by supply and demand. And we have had an inventory shortage, more buyers than sellers, for about 20 years. We've had more buyers than sellers. And any time you have a shortage of anything, the price goes up. Pretty simple economics, right? Right. Whether it's a Nintendo or a Cabbage Patch doll or a house, when there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. Too many people chasing too few goods kind of thing. So what then we start thinking about, OK, what could you do to boost inventory? Well, there are a couple of things that have been happening that have been harming inventory pretty considerably.

46:46And this is actually one of the few times you'll hear Dave say that the government could actually do something about this. Okay. One is we've got large REITs, real estate investment trusts and American corporations and Chinese corporations buying thousands and thousands and thousands of single family homes and taking them off the market and putting them up for rent. I mean, like five or six hundred thousand in the past few years. It's a lot. It's not just a few. So one thing you could do, and I'm really against limiting free enterprise. But when when the basic use of a single family home is for a family to get a toehold in the marketplace and to build wealth and to have a stable place to live, When that's being affected by foreign organizations and by out-of-control capitalism, then you've got to put some limits on that.

47:47So some kind of a stoppage, stop that. Another thing that's draining the market is Airbnbs. Tens of thousands of single-family homes, condos, co-ops, whatever, they're bought by people. at unrealistic prices only because they're turning them into a hotel. And they're making tons of money, and people are buying 8, 10, 20, 15 of them at a time. And that did not exist 20 years ago. Okay? And so some kind of a limitation, not necessarily a complete stopping of that, but limiting the number of units that go off the market so that a young couple getting married have a house to buy instead of it turning into an Airbnb because somebody bought it nothing down using some stupid TikTok guy's formula to buy it.

48:43Okay. So, you know, some kind of limitation on that, but here's one. I was talking to Brian Buffini about this the other day. He's the top real estate. Oh yeah. Does he, he's in this. He's really into this stuff. And he and I were having a discussion on the back porch about it and he had such great ideas. He said, and I had not thought of this i just thought it's brilliant so it's been i need to look it up when it was but it's at least 20 years ago that the capital gains law on single family homes was changed and it was a big deal it used to be that you uh got a tax break a little bit on your personal residence and they changed it massively whatever it was 20 years ago and said okay married filing jointly you can make up to a half million dollars single can make up to 250 000 tax-free on the growth of your capital gain on your personal residence if you own it one year or more okay and that was a big breakthrough well guess what half million dollars in much anymore and he said raising that to a million would take a bunch of boomers out of their home that would say yeah i'm i would downsize yeah but i'm gonna have to pay so stinking much tax that i'm not going to downsize and see if that level will sell the next level sells to move up into that and the next level below that moves up you create a domino down the price points and so giving a million dollar exemption instead of a half million dollar exemption and even do it on all uh small ownership yeah so if you had two rentals and you want to dump them and you can make up to a million dollars you dump those back into the inventory pool for that sweet young couple to have a place to buy and but they don't want to get rid of that rental because the tax yeah they want taxes and there is no capital gains break on that except you're paying 15 or if you make over 400 ,000 you pay 20 right right you get hammered if you've got a house like i've got a bunch of houses i probably got 15 houses most of our real estate's not houses but i got 15 or 20 and i would dump those stupid things but in it because i got a lot of gain in them but i'm not going to give the government a bunch of money so i'm going instead i'm going to have to do some kind of 1031 roll them and i'll get them back out of the market uh and and turn them into commercial property but most people won't do that i actually know how to do it your husband and i will be doing that together so but the um but if you gave people a tax break on the rentals that they own and attack of up to a million dollars yeah and on their personal residence there'd be a bunch of houses going to market interesting yeah and that would stimulate this inventory so if we could start dumping in and he brought up one other thing that's really technical but it's true uh so when you do development if you develop a subdivision if you're a developer you buy a piece of land and you put in a street and you put in the utilities and you go through all the stupid permitting and you put up with a stupid city and you go through all the stupid stuff about the trees and the stupid stuff about the creeks and all the stupid stuff you have to do to develop a subdivision right it's ridiculous okay when you finish with all that stupid stuff all those expenses you can't expense they have to be depreciated over a large number of years.

51:47So you could put$15 million in a sewer system for a subdivision. Yeah. And you don't get to write off$15 million. You get to write off a million dollars a year for 15 years or something like that. And if you up that. And he said, if you just said they can expense it instead of depreciating it, that would stimulate developers to start building subdivisions, which would stimulate. Yeah. You know, and so you could do that, but that's giving the evil businessman a tax break. Like, oh, my God, you liberals. But anyway, but this is how you get the thing started. You actually get tax breaks to people to cause them to do this stuff.

52:22Quit. Let me keep my money, and I'll go do stuff. Yeah. That's what investors say, and that's what people say when they're selling their house. I'm not selling this house. I'm not giving the government all that money. It's my money. And if you say, okay, you could keep your money, it'll stimulate the stinking inventory. Yeah. The other side of the coin, though, and I've almost used up all my time here, and I'm not going to take two segments on this, is we're increasingly realizing that the 25 - and 26-year-old in America has been screwed by the large banks and the car companies like never before, like no generation before.

52:56So if you're 25 or 26, you've been screwed by the big banks like you've never been screwed before. From the loans that they're having to take. The loans. You cannot buy a house when you have a$1 ,200 car payment, when you have a student loan that's$85 ,000, and you've got credit card debt coming out your ears. Record credit card debt. Record car debt. Record debt. Debt, debt, debt, debt. And then you sit there and whine you can't buy a house because you got victimized by these people. You set yourself up for it. You signed up for the trip, baby. But you've been screwed by the Citibank's. What's in your wallet?

53:30the money that's going to Citibank should have been going to buy you a house. Hmm.

53:52Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping. Y 'all, if you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced U.S. online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third-party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14 % lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5 % in key gift categories.

54:33Between amazing deals, stress-free shopping, and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter, and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today.

55:18Jeff's in Texas. Hey Jeff, how are you? Good. How are y 'all today? Better than we deserve. What's up? hey i'm trying to figure out uh what i should do with my house to move along with my debt snowball um i work out of town i'm probably home in my house about 60 days a year rest of the time i'm in my camper and so i'm trying to figure out if i should sell my house or rent it out to winners or uh just keep it you're single yeah you know i'm married with two kids. They're in the camper? What are y 'all doing in the camper? Is it travel? Is it work? Work. Yeah, I'm in the oil and gas industry. Oh, okay.

55:59I'm sorry.

56:03How much is the house worth? I think we could probably sell it for about$265, I think about$265,$270. What do you make a year? Take home$145. Okay. Part of me would have you keep it just to have a piece of home, you know, a piece of real estate. How old are you? I'm 32 and the last 31. Okay. So I think the big deal is we don't want to make a decision based on the snapshot that is the moment. Let's instead look at the film strip and see how this film is going to end. So what are you going to be doing in 10 years? well i'm hoping you know spend another three to five years in this industry and then go home with everything paid for is kind of my goal yeah and then at that time my kids would start school and my wife could go back yeah keep it and then yeah you keep it for keep it yeah you keep it okay because that's what you that's why you're keeping it not for what not for its current use you're keeping it for where this is going and you guys want to be in that area jeff do you think if you were to if you were to forecast it okay it's it's definitely a good area it's got a good school district definitely bought it to begin with yeah but uh so you keep it even if like if i sold it i'd be able to pay off um for the other 40 000 in debt which yeah you make you make 140 000 you can pay that off okay so because i figured i can pay everything else off besides camper in 10 months and the camper it's it's got a lot of debt on it too about 84 000 okay yeah that's going to be a problem the campers is the expense um yeah yeah that's a cost of you of your career your career costs you money and the campers you know the loss of value and that thing because those things go down in value like faster than anything on the planet this is gonna just like you like when you're done you're gonna be with cousin eddie yeah so well i would hate to yeah to sell an asset like a house that's gonna go up in value to pay for something that's gonna go down in value.

58:10Yeah. So what about renting it? Would you consider renting it? No, I don't think I would. I think I would enjoy my house when I can get home and use it. And there might be some times that the family stays and you go out for two weeks and work and let them enjoy the stability of the house instead of living in a freaking camper. Yeah, it's so nice to go home and have room and space. Amen. Even though the camper is big, they're not spacious. Yeah, this one's not going to roll away. I mean, it matters. It matters. I think it's going to be good for the psychology of your relationship with your wife and your kids, for them to have a solid home base to touch base in and to rest a little.

58:52And you can go out and do a few weeks and come back, and occasionally they can go out with you in the camper and come back. But you continue to bust it. What you're doing is paying a price to get to a place. What you're doing now, you have no intention of doing the rest of your life. correct yeah and the company i'm with is based where i live so there's maybe an opportunity to go you know tell them i'm done in the field and hopefully try to work from the home office there i would start having those discussions and say three to five years what classes do i need to take what mentorship program do i need to be in to be able to come home in three to five years i'm gonna bust it i'm gonna keep doing what i'm doing i'm not quitting i just need to i need this is my plan and I want to make sure you guys have a plan too that matches my plan.

59:38Yes, sir. I start talking to your team, your, your leadership team about that. Because they know that you guys don't do this stuff forever. Yeah. There's a shelf life on what you do. Right. Yes, sir. Yeah. I mean, there's not any 65 year olds much doing what you're doing. Yeah, correct. Yeah. That's what I mean. So they're used to people churning out or churning up over time. And I just want to get dialed in with that and get aligned with them on what I need to be doing to get that opportunity so that I've got a place to go. Not next month, maybe not next year, but in three to five years, I'm going to be doing something different.

1:00:20And so let's be working that out. Yeah, I'd keep it, Jeff. It's a good question. It's an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever thought about that that way. But if he had said that with truck drivers that live, if he had said 15 years, I might have said sell it. Sure. Yeah. But three to five. Yeah. And the littles, they got a place to, they got a home base they can stay in. Yeah. That's cool. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Michael's in San Diego. Hey, Michael. Hey, Dave. Rachel, how are you guys? Great. How can we help? I have a bit of a career question that I need advice on. I recently took a completely different career path and a different job that pays about$30 ,000 more a year to try to help my wife and I get out of baby step two a little bit faster.

1:01:07Cool. But I'm noticing, yeah, yeah, I know we're excited, but I am noticing some pretty kind of severe red flags about this new position. It's a director of sales position. Everybody in this department is new. The turnover is extremely high, and I already have people there that are very upset that have only been there for about a month. What are they upset about? Well, my sales reps, they have zero leads. There's literally no one doing any kind of marketing. Were they promised leads? Yeah, to a certain degree. it's an expectation that they're to make a certain amount of phone calls per day, and they can't even meet those phone calls per day because there's nothing in our CRM tool for them to work on.

1:01:54So I'm concerned about, like, long-term... Is this a new company? No, this company's been around for a significant period of time. They went through a transition recently. This doesn't sound like an integrity problem. It sounds like a competence problem. Yeah, I would agree. I'm just more concerned about long-term longevity, right? With this career, should I stick around for a year or two, kind of see what happens? Well, if I'm going to stick around, I'm going to work on the problems. And I'm going to get some help from leadership working on the problems. I'm not going to just sit here and watch the thing burn down.

1:02:32No, no. And, of course, I agree with you, but I've already brought some things to leadership, and they're not really open to discussion. wait a minute we don't have any leads in the crm tool you want these guys to make calls and there's no calls for them to make and leadership says i don't want to talk about it pretty much why that's weird do you want to lose your whole sales team yeah it's again it's very odd to me and i've started looking at like who's doing the marketing how's the marketing handled can we get out into the community i've started to ask these questions and the response i got was that's why your predecessor is no longer here because he has questions um is that what he meant is that what that meant about yeah about the leaves in particular yes okay look for a job okay bizarre yeah you need to get another job okay this one's not gonna last you're gonna get fired Yeah, my old job will have me back.

1:03:37No, I don't want you to go take a pay cut. I want you to make more money. Let's get a new job making$30 ,000 more than you're making now. Okay. Only this time it's working for competent leaders. Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for your advice. I appreciate it. Is this an epic leadership fail or what? This sounds like corporate America beyond belief. The last guy that asked questions is no longer here. We can't find his body. Don't ask questions. That'll get you killed. What kind of corporate crap is that? That's just crap. Is it a large company, Michael? Yes. It is, yeah. It's a large company.

1:04:14They're large enough to absorb this level of crap. And this one department that you happen to be stuck in. Yeah, really. Good God, man. What an idiot. Sorry, Michael. What a corporate idiot. The last guy that asked questions doesn't work here anymore. Don't ask any questions. Good God. That's classic. It's like office space.

1:05:00The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text, and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead.

1:05:34Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

1:05:59Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Why Refi? You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. Y-Refi helps people with defaulted private student loans refinanced to a payment that fits their budget. Visit YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Greg in New York. My wife and I are approaching our 60s debt-free, including our home, and have a net worth of over$2.5 million, including$125 ,000 in a high-yield savings. We bring home about$14 ,000 a month, and our expenses are about$8 ,500.

1:06:42I plan to partially retire from my job soon by cutting back my hours. My wife wants to keep working for a while, bringing home about$3 ,000 a month with benefits. we've agreed to go gazelle intense again by cutting expenses and living like poor college kids only this time enjoying home cooked dinners instead of ramen noodles to help us with the transition. Does that make sense at this stage or are we in a good enough position to start shifting towards balance and enjoyments? I think you have, I think you have some margin. I think you're okay. Yeah. You know, Greg, you, You guys need to redo your math.

1:07:24Okay. Two and a half million is the net worth. And so it's not the actual number. But if you invested two and a half million in a decent growth stock mutual fund, you would make$250 ,000 a year. And not touch the two and a half million. Okay. Now, all of that's not invested because some of this is the paid for home. It's part of the net worth. So that's not the real number. But the point is you're not utilizing in this math the income off of the nest egg that you've so diligently built. And so start taking some income off of your nest egg that you've so diligently built. And you don't have to touch the nest egg.

1:08:02Just take some of the income off of it. Have it invested decently in good mutual funds. And then whatever they make, throw that in the pot. And, you know, then$3 ,000 a month just becomes kind of cute that your wife is making. That's just kind of cute. it's unrealistic so no you do not need to act like college kids and no you don't need to go gazelle intense no you're just fine you're fine you got plenty of money and you're making plenty of money so yeah i mean if your expenses are 8 500 and you're making 20 20 a month you're fine like you're fine yeah hello yeah and you know he's not gonna quit uh he said we're bringing home 14 she's making 33 he's making 11 he's gonna cut back his hours they're probably still gonna be at 8 ,500.

1:08:46Yeah. If not more. Income without touching the nest egg. That's right. Without taking the income off the nest egg. So yeah, you got plenty of room. You don't need to go gazelle intense. You have transitioned sir from the acquisition mode to the enjoyment mode. You've been building the nest egg. Now it's time for breakfast. Crack the nest egg and begin eating sir. Oh, I was like where's the breakfast? Well you gotta do something with these eggs, right? You can do something with the eggs. The golden eggs from the golden goose. That's right. The goose is big, fat, and sassy. Let's get some of the eggs, okay?

1:09:23Enjoy. Enjoy. Let's ride the eggs. Good job, Greg. Yeah, you didn't call me up with no money, and I'm trying to retire because I deserve to because I'm old. No, that was not what you called and said. Way to go. Proud of you. Very well done. Jackie's in Kansas City. Hey, Jackie, how can we help? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I'm calling because I'm preparing for a divorce after 20 years as a stay-at-home mom, and I need some clarity on how to navigate the finances, particularly with the house and asset division. Wow. Sorry. What happened? My husband has a sex addiction, and it's been chronically unfaithful to me.

1:10:04I've tried to reconcile multiple times, and this most recent time, I'm done. Wow. I'm sorry, Jackie. That's awful. How old are the kiddos? I've got 19, 16, 14, and 10, all boys. Wow. All right. And what does he make? He makes about$220 a year. And how much debt do you all have? Just$11 ,000 on his truck, which he's planning to keep. My van is paid for. What about the house? The house is approximately worth$550 ,000. We owe$143 ,000, and the payment is$1 ,800 a month with 2.25%. Okay. And what does he have in a 401k? We have$160 ,000 in investments, and between two Roth IRAs, we have$270 ,000. okay so 400 grand okay 430 okay

1:11:19so so my big question dave is i don't have any income so even assuming the mortgage would be difficult i'm in grad school to become a counselor and i don't have a sense of what alimony might be but child support is around 1800 to 2000 a month and so qualifying for a mortgage is So how far before you finish your degree? Two and a half years still.

1:11:47Okay. All right. Well, apparently you've not been talking to an attorney yet. Not yet. I've decided, but before I go an attorney. Well, the attorney is going to tell you better than I can in your state what your state law is going to afford you on this. Um, so, and of course it's also what you guys can mediate as well. So a friend of mine that used to do divorce counseling says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. So this now is despite all of the pain, the anger, the angst, uh, the worry, despite all of the heartbreak, this is now a math problem. Mm hmm. Yeah. Sadly. That's why I was calling.

1:12:32Yeah, because I think if I keep the house, that I'll be cash poor. I'll have great equity. Yeah, if he took this other stuff and you took the equity in the house, I'd be close to an even swap. And then he pays child support and alimony. That would not be unusual, but I'm not going to recommend that. Okay. So what we found is this. Doing this for a long, long time. Mama Bear wants to hold on to the house because the kids have been through enough. and making them move and change schools is just too much because they feel like that's the last straw, like the kids can't, they're not resilient enough to make it through.

1:13:10Actually, they are because their world's already upside down. The house and school is a minor part of their world, really. But in Mama Bear's mind, it often feels like it's a bigger part than it actually is. And so she takes the house that she can't afford to protect the children from the last little bit of pain that she can. and it becomes a curse rather than a blessing. And so that's what I don't want to do here. Yours is not super bad because you don't owe that much on it. Right. And so that makes it, and it's not super expensive. Yeah,$1 ,800. Yeah. So, you know, if you could end up with a chunk of money and the house and, you know, like not an even split, in other words, you know, you might could make it.

1:14:01Otherwise, you're going to have to think about, if you're going to try to keep the house, you're going to have to think about a career while you're finishing up your counseling. Yes. Yeah, that was part of the question, Mara. I'm willing to work during grad school, but when I get to my internship, I'll be working 35 to 40 hours a week just in an unpaid internship. And how long is that for? Is that a semester long? That'll be a full year. And so taking an additional 30-ish hours a week. A lot of those, though, are paid gigs. Yeah, this particular program, the school that I'm in, that's an unpaid position.

1:14:33Well, let's think about a different way of doing that then. Okay. Because if you could get paid to be an intern, that changes the equation too a little for you. It doesn't change the whole thing, but it helps make the adjustments. So, yeah, you've got to – don't let the illusion that the house is providing more for the children than it actually is puts you in a position that it damages the next decade of their life and yours. Right, right. So cut it loose if you have to. But I don't know what you're going to be able to come out of this with. And an$1 ,800 mortgage, though, you know, if you think about it, it's not bad.

1:15:10Renting and stuff could be around this. I don't know. There's a part of me that you may be paying that regardless. But you got to eat. Yeah. And you got to pay lights and insurance and you got no money coming in. So we got to have some money coming in. And that's what that's how we balance this out. Yeah, and the alimony could help if there's any of that child support. 20 years, it's probably, depending on the state. I don't know. I'm sorry, Jackie.

1:15:50Finally, mortgage rates have dropped, and you know what that means. people who have been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their Home Buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a$10 ,000 seller guarantee.

1:16:25So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre-approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. Homebuyer Edge and Seller Guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591.

1:17:00NMLSconsumerExcess.org. Equal housing lender.

1:17:19Are you sick and tired of working so hard but not getting anywhere? Feel like a rat in a wheel? Well, that's normal, but normal's broke. You don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every month and builds you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin. You'll feel like you got a raise. I promise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Ramone's in Chicago. Hi, Ramone. Hey, Dave. How are you? How's it going? Better than I deserve.

1:17:57What's up? All right. So in a nutshell, early 40s, about 190 in debt. And I think it's accumulating still. Recently lost my job in the beginning of October. And, you know, just trying to determine if, you know, with this mountain of debt, if bankruptcy is the route as opposed to, you know, going deeper in debt while waiting for additional forms of income. Why would you go into debt while waiting on additional forms of income? Why don't you just go get something to do right now, like it's Christmastime, lift boxes for FedEx and eat? Oh, 1 ,000%. If they were to call me tomorrow based off the application that was submitted last week, I would do it.

1:18:48But as it stands today, there's no retail part-time temporary roles calling back at the moment. That's strange. Okay. What's the$190 in debt? What does it consist of? Yeah, so it's about$150 in student loans, about 20 in credit card debt and about 30 from a personal loan. Okay. Got bad news for you. Yeah, student loans aren't bankruptable. So it would only, yeah, so 50 of that would only be wiped away in a bankruptcy. And that's not that, you can probably clear that. Is that all that stuff, the 50 behind? Are you behind on all of it? yes i'm current but still a little bit uh the credit card usage was high and so um i did kind of take heed to some of the advice that i heard a while back on your show which was to put you know the higher end uh amounts on auto pay for minimal payments just to keep it active while trying to chop away at the smaller ones and i was doing that for a while but then um i had a series of uh job losses.

1:20:06So prior to the job, I was just laid off from in October. What were you laid off from in October? I was a fundraiser, so a director of development for a not-for-profit. Why were you laid off? There was a leadership change, and so the board of directors made some decisions on leadership roles. okay and why'd you lose the other jobs again laid off so this was my my traditional career background is in the advertising industry um and you know it's high turnover in that high service turnover in that industry and and my client didn't renew with the agency and so the agency couldn't afford to keep me on salary are you married no but i am engaged with uh Two children.

1:21:01Okay. One in five. Okay. Now, bankruptcy doesn't solve your problem. You have a career crisis. You don't have a debt crisis. You've got a lot of debt, but the debt is not what's killing you. It's because you have no income. Correct. And so, you know, I don't want to treat the wrong problem. The real problem, the core problem is income and consistent income. And at the moment, any income. and that's your core issue. So that's what I want to spend all of my calories on. And if you just took all of the debt payments and threw them in the trash and didn't pay them for two months, that's not the end of the world.

1:21:41You can get right back up once you start making some money again. What were you making at the last gig? $100 ,000. Yeah, okay. And the gig prior to that was$165 ,000. Yeah. So I was thinking you were a six-figure guy just listening to you. So I think you will be again. I just don't know when and I don't know what. And at this moment, it feels scary and uncertain. But, no, you're not bankrupt. You're just unemployed. Okay. And so we've got to solve that. And, by the way, like Rachel said, the bulk of your debt is not bankruptable anyway. And if you can make$100 ,000,$150 ,000 a year, it would be silly to file bankruptcy on$50 ,000.

1:22:29in because that's the essence of what you'd be doing follow me yeah i do i do i appreciate that yeah so i'll tell you what hang on i'm gonna um i'm gonna connect you with ken coleman's uh book uh finding the work you're wired to do and the proximity principle book uh which is a really good book on landing a position of some kind and um the best thing you can do is what you've been trying to do, it sounds like legitimately, and I do believe you, is to land something immediately just to get your hand to something instead of sitting and worrying. Yeah. And with the job market, even listening to Ken, just putting in applications online really isn't going far these days.

1:23:09So it is going in person, finding someone that works somewhere, that knows an open position. So there's some strategy, because it is. The job market's tough these days. I mean, I mean, I've, you know, the retail side, I'm not sure, but when it comes to like a full on career, like what you're talking about, um, it takes more than just an application online or finding, you know, a LinkedIn thing. Yeah. And I'm not even sure to get on with FedEx just filling out the applications enough. I think I'm going to bother some people over there and try to get over, you know, I'm ready to start today. You ready to start?

1:23:40Let's go. And what do you got to do? I mean, they, they, they probably need somebody today. I mean, it's Black Friday. It's the, you know, everything's moving again. So retail's not running slow. Sales are not bad. So I don't know where they're all going, but sales are not bad. So interesting, very interesting. Josh is in Ohio. Hey, Josh, how are you? Doing good. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm going to receive$400 ,000 roughly next summer from my dad's farm being sold. I want to treat this money with wisdom and not blow it. What's the best way to use a lump sum like this to build stability, invest wisely, and secure my future?

1:24:24Good for you. It passed away back in 2019. I'm sorry. I don't think I had. How much debt do you have, Josh? I have$18 ,000 between two cars, a credit card, and student loans. And then I have multiple medical bills. I'm not exactly sure what those equal, but I guess around$20 ,000. Okay, so$40 ,000 clears your debts, right? Yes. Okay. You own a home? No, we rent. Okay. All right. How old are you, Josh? 30. What do you make?

1:25:13roughly 77 ,000 a year i drive truck so it's a little different each year okay so what i would do is pay off your debts build an emergency fund and i would set the rest of it aside in a mutual fund and forget that you have it get with a ramsey smart investor pro and it sounds like you need about 50 ,000 out of this so put about 350 in a mutual fund and just let it sit there and pretend like you don't have it and let it sit there and grow a little bit and you keep working with no debt payments i want you to start saving money and no debt payments i want you to get on a on a detailed written budget with your wife and use this opportunity to change you not have the money change everything it's not enough money to fix your life it's a lot of money it's more than you've ever seen but it's not enough to make it where you don't have to do anything you got to get you got to be smart from this point forward as you said wise and so I'm going to send you a copy of the book the total money makeover and I want you guys to work that system yeah without the 400 I think that's really important because you know used to credit cards car payments like that's the norm and when you just wipe it out there's no emotional sacrifice at that point right so you guys have to have a standard of living that you can live on with your income and you guys feel good about creating these new money habits.

1:26:30We're not borrowing money anymore. Yep. And then if you choose to use that money, you know, three years down the road to buy a house or to use it for your life, you have good money habits in place. So working on your money habits is going to be really, really important, Josh.

1:27:18Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Elizabeth is in Arkansas. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? Hey, Dave and Rachel. Hey, what's up? Okay, so I am a newly single mother of seven children in the process of getting a divorce. And I do not make enough money to survive, and I need to know what to do next. My gosh. Where are you guys in the divorce process? we have only just had one hearing about custody um is he writing checks no why i have not received a dime why because he doesn't think that he should it's not up to him it's up to your attorney to get off his butt and talk to the judge about sending the woman with seven children some money yeah well right now we're having the kids half and half i don't care I get him a week.

1:28:27Yeah. He needs to be writing checks to you in any state. Yeah. Was your attorney a wuss or not smart? I'm beginning to wonder. But I don't have the funds to get anyone else at this point. Oh, you need to pick up the phone and chew their ass. Yeah. Can you say that? I just said that. I mean, I got a lady with seven children that's not getting supported by her deadbeat soon-to-be ex, and the attorneys sitting on their thumb. I can't think of anything that makes me madder than attorneys who sit on their thumbs. Yeah, and so currently I have$6 ,550 in student loans. um that's what i i was able to get that i graduated this summer with an emt license and um i got that so i could move out how old are the kids how old are your children um eight to fifteen uh two sets of twins when are you starting the emt gig well there is a possible opening in january but again because of the situation with the kids it's going to be really difficult for me to get a like a vanilla EMT job because it's usually 48 on 96 off and I don't I have the kids I have to I think it's very doable the 48 you're on they're on him right but again he's been very I don't care what he wants You seem to think he has control of this.

1:30:19He has no control. There are these neat things called laws. When your attorney actually bows up and acts like an attorney. No, definitely. Listen, not unusual at all for one of the spouses in a divorce that has child has co-care custody with their children to be working for the fire department of the EMT and have 48 on 96 off. That's a fairly normal rhythm. And to put the child care, the child custody arrangement to fit that rhythm is not unusual at all. It's done every day in divorce courts in America. Okay. All right. When somebody has an attorney. Yeah. God. Okay. So, yeah. So this guy, this guy is a, your soon-to-be ex is a control freak overbearing bully, isn't he?

1:31:13Yeah. And has been for how long? 17 of our 18 years. Okay, because you twice in the conversation already gave him way more power than he actually has. Yeah. And two times I corrected you on it. You following me? He really doesn't have, I mean, this is a, yeah, this guy's, he's so neutered, he doesn't even know it. He's got seven freaking children. the judge is going to mop the floor with him assuming your attorney actually shows up for work yeah okay so yeah this is elizabeth do you have the ability to get someone else walking in front of a judge yeah i'm sorry rachel what was that do you have the ability to find someone new if you needed legal counsel that's different for your sake i don't think so um i I actually had to borrow money from my daughter to be able to pay the retainer.

1:32:17And I'm currently making$204 weekly. Doing what? Just in-home care. I do in-home care, and then when I can, I do substitute teaching, and that pays$91 a day. And he's not taking care of the kids at all? He's not doing any of the child custody right now at all? Well, he's got the kids every other week with the exception of one of my oldest twins. She's at my house every week. Okay. So you could be working that entire week for a lot more than 204. Right. And you need to be. But the problem is the reason that my daughter is at our house is because she was suicidal. And going to her dad's was making it worse.

1:33:04Oh, I can imagine. I can imagine. Is she not safe at your house? Yes. Okay, then go work the week that he's... The rest of the kids are gone, you go to work that week. Yeah. You got to. You got to create some money. Well, the problem is she is not supposed to be left alone yet.

1:33:27So that's been a challenge with that. But I have been working while they're at... You have family in the area? they're over an hour away um my mother is a is a widow um she she happened to work to survive herself and then i have siblings but basically everybody is just working paycheck to paycheck and i don't i don't want to be that anymore well you are right now you're just trying to eat so bubba needs to start writing some checks to you you need to get some money on the weeks that the kids are gone and if she needs to go stay with her grandmother that week so somebody's watching the teenager that's cool right uh she wouldn't be able she's in school though and um not right now she's in christmas right now well yeah that's in a week and a half christmas break yeah so i mean you've got to create some income 204 dollars i don't know What are you eating on?

1:34:31We did qualify for food stamps. And so that food stamps is taking care of the food. Some friends from church stepped up and helped out with some stuff that has helped cover gas because I'm driving the kids back and forth to their school. And what's he saying? Your husband, your ex, soon to be ex.

1:34:55He's blaming me for everything. Yeah. So, listen, I want you to hang up and I want you to call your attorney and say, if I don't start getting some checks immediately out of this guy to feed these seven children, we're over here on freaking food stamps. And he has seven children. He's paying nothing. You're not doing your job. Yeah. Okay. Right now. All right. Do your job. I'm sorry. Do your job. And hey, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We have Aldi gift cards. Elizabeth, they're one of our sponsors. And so we'll hook you up with some of those. Yeah, we'll get you some groceries going, kiddo.

1:35:27Oh, I'm so sorry. Man, God, that pisses me off.

1:36:06Many of you listen to The Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:37:06I still don't understand this. We have Cyber Monday week. How is a Monday a week? I'm so confused. Shopping week. Cyber Monday week. Tis the season. Deals aren't over yet. We've extended the sale. It's longer than a week. We love it. Sales,$12 hardcover books,$12 assessments,$12 questions for humans decks, and$6.99 for audiobooks and e-books. This does end at the end of the week. Sunday, 12-7. RamseySolutions.com slash store, or click the link in the description, boys and girls. Daytona Beach is on the line. Jana is calling. Hi, Jana. How are you? Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.

1:37:46Sure. What's up? So my question is, I'm 46. My husband is 43, and we have nothing saved for retirement. And we don't own a house. Well, correction, we own a house, but it's a rental right now. And we're thinking of selling it. And then my husband has about$100 ,000 and a TSP. Other than that, we have nothing saved, and I'm a little nervous. Well, I wouldn't be panicked, but I would be concerned. Okay, because if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. I'd be concerned about that. But 46, I mean, you know, you've got 20 years. You'll be okay.

1:38:36If you get your crap together, are you going to do it? Absolutely. So what's the house? I don't understand. You have a rental house, but you don't live in it? Correct. It was part of – Where do you live? We live in Daytona Beach. I know, but I mean, what's your house? So we are renting. Why? Because my husband had a job relocation to Daytona Beach. Where's the rental house? Why didn't you sell the other house?

1:39:12My husband has some sentimental issues. It was his first house that he ever bought, and he just didn't want to get rid of it. It actually was a... He should get rid of that and his old girlfriend's phone number, both. Seriously. Get rid of the house. That's stupid. It was a house I bought in college. I love the house. Oh, come on. Get rid of the house. It's not a blessing to your family. How much could you get for it, Jana? You're renting now because you own a rental property. Right. Yeah, sell it. What's it worth? it's uh we just had an appraisal done on it um it's 313 and what do you owe on it 200 great sell it buy you a house in daytona beach 15 year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth year take-home pay have you got other debt um yeah so we're on baby step two right now we're finishing it this month great good so if you finish baby step two and you sell this house and you buy a house with that money and then you have an emergency fund, you're on to baby step four, right?

1:40:16Right. Boom. I love this. And what's your household income? Together. Well, my income kind of fluctuates a little bit. Yeah, but I mean, what do you make a year? What do y 'all make a year? About 165 to 185. Okay, if you say 15 % from 46 to 66 of$150 ,000, you're going to be multimillionaires.

1:40:44Jana? Okay. If you say 15 % in Baby Step 4, you said you knew what Baby Step 2 is, you know what Baby Step 4 is, right? Which is around$30 ,000 a year. $30 ,000 a year for the next 20 years, you're going to be multimillionaires.

1:41:04okay pretty cool pretty cool i'm gonna get you know put it in there yeah i think we should let's get the exact number but i mean can't i can't do 40 years in my head but the i'm not it's probably okay i'll give you my guess three and a half million okay you're i'm gonna do 43 because that's you janna right now she's 46 no she's 43 46 oh who's 43 i'm 46 my husband to 66 So we're going to do 40, just do 40 years at$3 ,000 a month. $2 ,500 a month. There's$30 ,000. $2 ,500 a month. See what you get. We're going to go 12%. People are going to get mad about that. That's all right. Get mad. $4.1 million.

1:41:42Oh, 3.5 wasn't bad. It's a good guess, Dave. Did you get that, though, Jana? It's pretty good. So our leftover income is right now, and that's once we're done in this month, will be$7 ,415.72. cents. So we only need like$4 ,000 to live on. You need$2 ,500 a month going into retirement in baby step four. Baby step five is you need to save some towards kids college. Baby step six is you need to pay off this house I told you to go buy. And that is working till 67, by the way. That was the number in the investment calculator. But all that to say, you guys are going to be great. You have to start making some grown-up moves and keeping a house for sentimental value.

1:42:27is not one of them. You know what I mean? Like you guys kind of have to face reality too. Right, Jana? I mean, like he needs to feel that and see that. Yeah, dump it and you guys get your house bought and start working this plan. It's going to work. You're doing great. It's going to work. And you know what's interesting? Let's go back to the beginning of this call. Did I not hear a little bit of panic and emotion in your voice that you were going to retire on Alpo? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sitting here going, don't need to panic. What's making you emotional? What's going on? I mean, I'm frustrated because up until this point, we've been paying$7 ,500 a month for my mom to be in an assisted living.

1:43:15And she blew her entire retirement and sent$500 ,000 across seas to a Nigerian prince of some sort. Oh, my gosh. And so I am sitting here supporting her, and it's frustrating to me. And then I look at her, and I look at me in the mirror, and I'm like, you're going to be just like her. No, you're not, Jana. No, you're not. Why would you be like her? You just figured out that's a dumb idea. You're not going to send half a million dollars. To a Nigerian prince. Jana, say that to yourself. I am not going to send half a million dollars. You're not making the same decisions your mom made. already you guys are already working your way out of debt you're already you're already gaining financial ground let me tell you what normally happens where a family is dysfunctional with money okay the kid goes the other way too far not the same way very few people follow their in their in their broke parents footsteps they go the other direction and oftentimes too far where it's dysfunctional and that's in rachel's book know yourself yeah which hasn't really happened for It's not like they're over savers.

1:44:25They're not. You know what I mean? So a lot of people are. They are. They grow up and their parents are dysfunction. Very much so. They don't heal from that and they go bananas. Yeah. And in Jana's case. Yeah. Jana, all you got to do is just follow the baby steps. You're not even going to be close to your mother. Even if it was half of what we just pulled out, that's two million dollars at retirement. You're fine. You guys are going to be great. You really are. You got to make some moves. Get away from the Nigerian prince. Yeah. Oh, no. Man, they prey on the elderly, though. I'm not kidding you.

1:44:53That is like the scam of the century. That's been around since before the internet. No, it was like the forward, the forward, the forward. We used to get it in the mail, snail mail. I used to get the Nigerian Prince offer in the mail, snail mail, before there was email, before there was an internet. And the worst is the dating catfish stuff happening. People in a relationship with someone. I never understood why anybody wanted to date a catfish. I'm so confused. Oh, my gosh. Such a boomer. Man, we're getting some interesting ones on here. Jade sniffed one out the other day on the air. Yeah, but she had never even met the caller.

1:45:27Yeah, the woman was getting ready to send her 401k to this dude and put it in stupid Bitcoin. And then we're like, so how many times have you all actually, oh, I've never actually met him. I'm like, oh, catfish, catfish. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, man. So bad. Oh, man. You're not her, Jana. Jana, you're going to be great. Yeah. You really are. Listen, if your family puts the fun in dysfunction, boys and girls, it just means you don't have to be that. That's all it means. You don't have to follow. I know it's scary. That is. That's terrifying. And just the burden that you're going to be for your kids.

1:46:03Right? Like you feel all of that. And so because of that, that's part of the motivation to change. So you can change your family tree. You're different. You're a different branch. You're creating something completely new for your kids. And it's beautiful. We're going to work this system. You have time. The passion that you have to not be that, use that passion to work this system, and then you won't be that. It's that simple. It really is.

1:46:52You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:47:38Rob is in Syracuse. Hey, Rob. How are you? I'm good, thanks. Good. How can we help? I was listening to you on Sage Steel, and I didn't realize that you had had a bankruptcy in your past. And it got me thinking, do you think about the same things I do? And it was 20 years ago. We were a young couple. And I just think about the debt that was discharged. And I keep a list. And I just wonder if you ever think about that, about whether I know I'm never going to pay it back because they're never going to take it. but I just was wondering if it was something that you or anybody else thinks about. Yeah, people think about it because they're people of honor, and the people of honor signed a debt, and they know they owed it, and the law says, according to bankruptcy, that you don't owe it anymore, but your heart still is tender to that.

1:48:35And so all that means is you're a good person. Now, obsessing about it and continuing to worry about it, I wouldn't do that. I instead would just accept grace, move on. And, you know, you can think about the time I, you know, when I was 16 years old, I got the car keys the first night. I got my driver's license. I went to the Pizza Hut, my dad's pickup. And the first thing I did is I backed into a guy's Corvette. Now, I had to pay for that and fix it, obviously, and my dad did. Nobody was happy. Not the Corvette guy, not my dad, not me. Nobody was happy in the equation. But I don't think about that all the time.

1:49:10It's an interesting scar because it was really traumatic the first night you got your license, right? But it's also, you know, I was a 16-year-old kid, you know. Everybody makes mistakes. I just happened to do it with a pickup and a Corvette. But, you know, move on, Dave. Don't sit up at night and worry about that. So you don't want to take it too far, but to have a tender heart towards it just means you're a good person. In my case, mine manifested itself with the bankruptcy stuff years later. About 10 years after we filed bankruptcy, we were making substantial money again. And I woke up in the middle of the night with a very vivid dream, and I felt very, very sure God was telling me to go back and pay it back.

1:49:54And I told my wife, and she said, absolutely not. Those people pissed all over us. We're not giving them a dime. Because, man, we had some jerks we dealt with. We had some people that did all kinds of illegal stuff, all kinds of stuff. It was our fault. We caused it. But, man, she's like, no way. And I'm like, yeah, way. I'm pretty sure this was God, and I'm pretty sure we need to do this. No, we're not doing that. So two years went by, and I finally – by then we're making even more money, and the amount of the bankruptcy was fairly small in comparison. And I'm like, Sharon, we're supposed to do this.

1:50:28I really want to go back and do this. I've got the money. And she said, no. And we actually sat down and met with our pastor in a marriage counseling session over it because we were arguing about it and couldn't get a resolution. And I was very sure. And so we ended up, she acquiesced. And I said, look, we spend more than this on other stuff. It's what I think we're supposed to do. It's not, she says, not the money. It's the principle. I know. But we needed it. So anyway, she finally went along with it. And we did go back, and it was a real pain 12, 13 years after the bankruptcy to get some banker who it's not his money.

1:51:04They don't have a way to put it on the books because it's off the books. And we had – it was actually a lot of work to get these people to take money. It was crazy. Well, that's what I was figuring. Yes, that's what I was thinking about. It was like, who's going to – Yeah, I mean, if you found an individual that was on there, like, you know, somebody like that, they're like, oh, yeah, I'll take the money. And I had a few of those. But then one guy's like, oh, don't worry about it. I'm like, yeah, I'm worried about it. I need to do this. And he's like, OK, and send me a check. So I did. And then most people were that way.

1:51:36But then some of these banks, they were just morons. But the banks are funny. They're morons. So but I also don't tell that story very often, Rob, because it sounds like a humble brag for one thing. And the other thing is I don't want to put it forth as a principle that I believe that everyone should go back and do that. I don't think everyone should go back and do that. I think I was told to, and it's probably, it's easy to surmise I was told to because I'm in this position. And so I needed to be, I needed to have a little bit, you know, be a little bit more above reproach, so to speak. But even then, I don't tell people.

1:52:12And so I'm often, you know, the haters on the Internet are like, Dave Ramsey filed bankruptcy. He's a thief. He stole the money. And they don't even know I went back and paid it. And I don't go into the comments section and go, yes, I did. You know, just let it go. Screw it, you know. But so I would not impose that upon you legalistically is what I'm saying. Actually, I really I'm glad I heard the story. But I really wanted to let you know that it was a lot of your principles when I reading when I back 20. some years ago after filing bankruptcy that got me back on track. Good. Good. Praise God.

1:52:49That's why we're here, man. Hey, that's a great question. It's a good discussion. And I don't know if I would keep a list anymore. He said he keeps a list of it. Unless you feel some kind of spiritual direction or, because honestly, I was not thinking about it. And I just, you know, what, 10 times in your life you have a dream that's that vivid that wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep. And I'm sitting at my computer and I wrote down the details of the dream. I've got it in the file, in an email to myself or in a Word document to myself because it was that vivid. And that doesn't happen that often.

1:53:23I dream every night and I don't have any idea what it is. Right, right. But so I really felt like that's what it was. But I'm not sure. I'll know when I get to heaven for sure. But and that's not why I'll get to heaven either, by the way. But the prompting and leading that was something bigger than you to do something. And that could be anything in life. And this happened to be this. Yeah. And for, yeah. And that's not for everyone's story, to your point. But it's very interesting with bankruptcy that on the one end of the spectrum, there are people that are flipping about it. It's like, ah. I'll just file bankruptcy.

1:53:55I'll just file bankruptcy. I don't know. They feel no obligation. Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, you got Rob still keeping a list. 20 years later. 20 years later. So, yeah, I'd probably either pay it back or burn the list. Mm-hmm. You need to get it. You need to get it off your plate. One side or the other. Get off your plate and quit having it hanging back there in the back of your head. Let's move on to something else. And I'm perfectly fine with you walking in grace and just let it go. Perfectly fine with that. Again, I'm not going to take my story and impugn that as a pharisaical principle on everyone else because I don't think that's what I was getting.

1:54:32That was not the sense I had from it. It was a very nuanced individual situation. madeline is in chicago hey madeline what's up hi hey how can i help uh so i just graduated in may from college and my student loan payments will start up in january it's 22 000 in debt and then i also have 2500 in credit card debt um so my question with the loans is They all have different interest rates, subsidized versus unsubsidized, and just the best way to go about paying those effectively. How many do you have? It's 10 different loans. Wow, lots of little ones. Okay. So a couple of 2 ,000 here and there. List them smallest to largest.

1:55:23Okay. Pay minimum payments on everything except the little one and attack the little one as fast as you can. And throw that credit card debt in there, too. Is the credit cards multiple credit cards? Just one credit card. Okay, yeah, so put the$2 ,500 credit card in that debt snowball. You probably have some student loans smaller than that. Yeah. Yeah, so you're going to do those first. You're going to cut up the credit card, by the way. Quit using this stupid thing. I'm not kidding. That wasn't funny. No, I could have. Jamal, are you working? Yeah, I am. I have a part-time remote job, and then I also work as a waitress.

1:56:03Okay. How much do you bring in a month? Monthly, I'm bringing in about$5 ,000. Good. Wow. Good for you. And if you can live on nothing and drop three grand on that, you're going to be done in no time. You'll be done by next Christmas. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you got$25 ,000, so$2 ,000 a month, and you're done by Christmas next year. And that includes if you don't get a full-time job, making more, you know? What's your degree in? Yeah, that would be my goal. Marketing. Oh, good. Oh, yeah, you'll get a better job than that. Yeah, go get a big job and knock it out even before that. But I want you done by Christmas.

1:56:43Say, Christmas is my date. Say it out loud. Christmas is my date. All right, knock it out, kiddo. You got this. Good job, Madeline. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book to show you how to do it.

1:57:00Thank you.

1:57:53Hey guys, it's here, our Cyber Monday sale. And that's always a good deal. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:58:11Our scripture of the day, Romans 15, 4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us. So that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. Jim Rohn said formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune. Sam is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Sam, how are you? Hey, I'm actually in Wilson, North Carolina. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I'm newly engaged, and we've had a discussion, me and my now fiance, have had a discussion about buying a house. My grandfather's house, he just passed away, and my family is thinking about selling it.

1:58:57They're going to keep it in the family. They're thinking about selling it for tax value. I really like the house. She's not really sure about the location. And so that was my first question. And the other question would be, how much money do I need to save to buy a house? Okay. How old are you, Sam? I am. I just turned 26. Okay. And what do you make a year? $62 ,000. What's your fiancé make a year? $54 ,000. Cool. And when will you all be getting married? Haven't set a date. We're getting through the holidays, but probably sometime in 27. Okay. All right. And what will your grandfather's house cost if you were to buy it?

1:59:43Tax value just under$250 ,000, like$246 ,000 or$247 ,000, I think. What do you think the thing's really worth? I looked it up on Zillow and all the other websites, and it's listed for$340 to$360. So I feel like I'll be gaining. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. And do you have any money? A little to none. I mean, I've started up with Financial Peace University. I've started my nest egg kind of adding to it every month. I've got around$2 ,800 saved up in a money market account for the credit union. And you're out of debt? Well, I've got$4 ,000 worth of debt paying that off. That ring, I hadn't even made one payment on it yet.

2:00:39I intend on paying that off before the end of the year. This year or next? This year. So in the next couple weeks? A few weeks. Yes. Okay, that's good. All right, so you'll be debt-free, and then you'll start saving. When are you required to close on your grandfather's house? Could you rent it for a year while you save up some money? Yes, I can. That is also another option. So right now it's back to the house. Okay, now here's the last question. What happens when you want to sell the house? I would sell it back to my mom or to my family. What if they can't buy it? um do you have to sell it at tax value then or do you can you sell it for full price i would sell it to him for whatever i bought it for then don't buy it yeah it's not a good investment no don't buy it because you can't make any money on it right if you buy a house for two or three hundred thousand dollars in 10 years from now you have to sell it for two or three hundred thousand dollars that was a bad deal all right it needs to go up in value so no unless Unless the family can all agree, Sam, that, you know, by the time you want to sell it.

2:01:48You can sell it for what it's worth. Yeah, you can sell it for what it's worth, or you can sell it outside the family if no one wants it for what it's worth either. Yeah. It's kind of like a first right of refusal. I'd give them first right of refusal, but if they don't want to buy it for what it's worth, I mean, the thing could be worth a million dollars in a few years. Yeah. And, I mean, it's on family land. We've got 650 acres, and there's a bunch of barns. You don't get 650 acres with this, though. No, no, no. I get an acre, and then I get some barns that are actually on the farm. Yeah, you don't get anything.

2:02:20You get an acre of land and a house. The rest of it is just you have access to, which, by the way, if you drive over there, you'd have access to it anyway. You don't have to live there to have access to that. Right. So, no, that's not reality. I don't think this is a good idea because I think you're going to get trapped. Mm-hmm. Thank you. That's how I've been kind of feeling. Yeah, I think the family has. And your fiance has a good gut instinct about her, too. You know, that she's a little bit like, I don't know about the family thing and the location and all of it. When you guys buy your first house, Sam, you want it to be a win.

2:02:55You want it to be a fun experience, something that you guys both agree on. And it's kind of that first big purchase as a married couple and starting it with any level of hesitation or baggage or not excitement just kind of puts a weight. And if I owned a farm with a house in the corner of it like your mom and your aunt do, I really wouldn't want it to get outside the family. So I understand their motivation. That makes sense. But it's not a good deal for Sam and his new bride is the problem. And so your mom's not being unreasonable with her request, but it puts you in a position where you guys can't make a good deal out of it for the two of you.

2:03:33So it's just that what they need from it and what you need from it are too far apart. Yep. And it's not that either one's wrong or anybody's bad or anything like that. It's not stupid or something like that. It just doesn't fit your life. And really, if I'm them, I don't want you to be able to sell the thing later. Right. That shouldn't be. I mean, I've got some properties. I don't want the corner of it gone. You know, I've got some properties I bought the corner in, and I don't want to sell it again. You know, that kind of thing. So, no, I don't. I can understand that. That makes sense. But if I were you two, I think it's a lot cleaner for the two of you.

2:04:10So, for the family having this house. If you wanted to rent it for a year or two, and while you're saving up money to buy, then that would be great. Because the more money you put down, of course, the faster you can pay it off. Alyssa is in Albuquerque. Hey, Alyssa, what's up? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Um, so just a tiny backstory is, um, when I was dating my husband, who I've now been married to for 15 years, um, his mother used to tell me that she was running out of money, that they were going to be poor soon because she was a trust fund, um, child and they were going to run out of money.

2:04:51So before my husband and I got married, I asked him, um, you know, what does this mean for us? and he said nothing my parents are going to take care of their finances themselves they're going to handle it that we will not this will not impact us which I should have known was not true fast forward 15 years his parents are out of money they own their home outright it's a small property probably worth five hundred thousand dollars and then they also have another small piece of land in the mountains with a cabin on it that's just a shell of a building probably worth $80 ,000 but they do not receive enough income to live they receive maybe$900 from social security how old never worked much they are 85 my mother-in-law is 85 and my father-in-law's um, that, or he's 80, about 80.

2:05:49Um, we have gone, yes, we have gone and built them a casita on their house so they could get some rental income. Um, and that brings in about a thousand dollars a month, but they still are, cannot live. And it's basically medical bills, um, and things like that. So we have now started paying their utilities and their health insurance. They need to sell the house. Exactly. So I keep telling my, so I tell my husband, what about, I know you don't, I know most people don't like this, but a reverse mortgage. No, they don't need to do a reverse mortgage. They need to sell the house. They need to sell the land and they need to sell the land and the mountain and they need to sell the house they need to buy a$200 ,000 one-bedroom condo.

2:06:40Okay. And that'll give them$300 ,000, $400 ,000 to live off of. How's their health? Not good. No, not good. Okay. So it's not like another, they're not going to be a hundred probably. I don't think so. I mean, I, you know, who knows? Who knows? God willing. But not while my mother-in-law's had a heart attack, She's had a mini stroke, and she rides the ambulance to the emergency room once a month. Thus, her medical bills continue to grow. They need to get a sweet little one-bedroom condo in an area that's very nice and peaceful, and they need to sell off all their stuff, and they need to sell off the land, and they need to sell off the house because they didn't save.

2:07:26And no, you guys don't need to support them. Your husband needs to stop this. The reason he wants to do this is because he wants to inherit this property. I don't want to inherit the property. It's not that fancy. No, thank you. And you don't want a property with a reverse mortgage on it. No. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:08:00Thank you.