Slow Money Moves Still Matter

23:21Just for quick context, between us both, we have two pension funds, two 401ks, and two Roth IRAs. My question is, with similar rates of return, if I have approximately$32 ,000 in a company 401k and only$9 ,700 in my Roth IRA, is it still better to prioritize my Roth IRA? Do you have a Roth 401k option? Yes. I contribute$120 a month as a Roth contribution.

23:55Rachel Cruze:What's the match? Are they giving you a match at your company? So it's not a match. It's actually they contribute 5 % regardless of what I contribute. So if you did$0, they're still putting in 5 % of your income? That's correct. Yeah, I'm a first responder within a local government, and so that's kind of the standard practice. One of the perks. That's great. Okay, so let's talk about your investment strategy here. Is the pension, is that automatic, enforced? Yeah, so it's a 6 % from my check into the pension fund, and of course I can't change that. Got it. And then it's based on the average four highest consecutive years of salary at full maturity.

24:41Okay, so we recommend 15 % of your income going into retirement once you hit baby step four, so once you get the fully funded emergency fund and the order you would do that in is match beats Roth beats traditional so you said you get a match regardless so that's kind of nice it's it's kind of a moot point but if you have a Roth 401k you sort of get the best of the both worlds from your Roth IRA meaning it's after tax money but it's going to grow tax free so that might help with your conundrum what a lot of people do if they don't have a Roth 401k they'll go to the Roth IRA first, fill that up, that's$7 ,500 for this year, and then if they still haven't hit 15 % of their income, they'll go back to the traditional 401k.

25:22But in your case, you might say, I want to do all 15 % of my Roth 401k and be done. Okay. But the good news is the balances don't matter. So you're going to see this. It's not like if you invest in the$32 ,000 401k, it's going to have higher growth than the IRA.

25:38Rachel Cruze:Ryan, how much do you make a year? so between my wife and i the gross is 102 a year how about you though like because we're talking about your numbers and your stuff what's mine is mine's 65 a year 65 okay um because i'm thinking if the six percent of the pension that you have going in we always say that half of the pension is what counts towards your 15 on baby step four because there is money going in which is great so You want to include some of it, but you don't have a lot of control. And sometimes they put it in pretty conservative investment. So it's not very aggressive. So that would be, so 3 % of your pension is the 15.

26:19Rachel Cruze:Are you following me? So you got 12 % left of your income. And you'll be investing a total probably of around$9 ,000. So you really could go fill up that Roth IRA at 7 ,500. And that leaves you$1 ,500 left. you could just throw at the 401k if you wanted because you're getting 5 % right. We don't count the employer's match or the employer's contribution in the 15%, but it's so good to know that it'd be close to, you know, 7 % going in the 401k. It's probably what I would do. Yeah, and it like, here's what I did at Ramsey for a long time is just 15 % into my Roth 401k here. And that way I never saw the money.

26:59And so it sort of forces the discipline because it shows up before you ever get your paycheck versus some people going, hey, I've got extra money. should I fund the Roth IRA or should I go on vacation? And so sometimes it's just nice to force yourself to eat the vegetables, which is kind of what you do when you dial up that investment in your 401k to 12 % in your case.

27:19Rachel Cruze:But going from a pension to a Roth and then some in a 401k, that is great. And you guys doing that and your wife's, you know, your wife doing the same on her side of it all. That's amazing. How old are you guys? Amazing. That's impressive to be at least. So I am 27 and she is 26. Oh, good for you guys. Well, you're going to kill it, y 'all. Absolutely. All right, let's go back to John. Let's see if we got him on the line. John, are you there? Yes, ma 'am. Oh, you sound clear. Clear as day. Okay, perfect. Okay. So we have your mortgage, and then you're saying what you had left on it was about$175 ,000 on your house.

27:52Rachel Cruze:So what's your main question? All right, the main question is I have$23 ,000 and roughly$23 ,000 in credit card and loan debt. Okay. And now my Social Security is only$15.61 a month. Okay. And I only net around$500 from the rental property that I have. Okay. So that averages out to about$2 ,000 a month. That's all of your income? That's it. Oh, boy. How old are you, John? I'm an old man. Oh, my God. I'm 74. Oh, I'm not too old. You're good. Oh, thank you. Thank you. A young 74. A young 74. God bless you for that one. Thank you so much. I accept that. So you make a little over$2 ,000 a month between Social Security and this investment property.

28:47What are your expenses every month between the minimum debt payments and your bills? All right. Well, I have a rental that I pay rent in North Carolina. That's$625 a month. then I have my credit card debt is$1 ,200 a month and that's about it what's the rental in North Carolina for? because of the house that I rent I don't because the house that I own is in another state

29:21Rachel Cruze:okay so you have two mortgages no no no one mortgage and one rent okay so who's in the other house that has the mortgage on it Oh, my renters. My renters. You know, my tenants. Oh, you're making$500 a month between the mortgage payment versus what they're paying. Yeah, you're right. Right. Okay. Well, something's got to give here. Yeah. If you sold that house, how much equity is in that house? Well, it's worth, Zillow's got it up there for about$310. And you owe$175? Correct. So you might net$110,$115 an effort fees. And you're renting for where you're living right now. Okay. Correct. Okay, gotcha.

30:04Rachel Cruze:Okay. I mean, I'm... I wanted to do like a home equity or a cash out, but I don't know because I just... Basically, well, there's two mortgages on the house now, so I don't know if I can find anybody to take... Hold it. Let me... I don't know if I can... Anyone would take their place if I were to try to get a cash out to pay off their credit card. That's just moving around debt, though. What we need to do is get out of the debt, which is going to require deeper sacrifice. So I would be looking at selling this whole thing and using that proceeds to pay off the debts. And maybe you'll be able to at least get by.

30:40Yeah. And maybe you'll have Social Security and maybe some part time work.

30:43Rachel Cruze:And after everything's paid, hopefully it's 100 grand left. And then the hope would be that maybe you can find something small. Yeah, that's probably what I would do, John, is probably sell this rental. And it's in another state. You don't want to be a long term, a long distance landlord.

31:11Rachel Cruze:Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. I don't know about y 'all, but I can build something up in my head until it feels way harder than it really is. I'll convince myself it's going to take forever, be super complicated, or cost a fortune. Then I finally sit down to do it, and I wonder why I waited so long. Making a will might be one of those things for you. That's why I love Mama Bear legal forms. They've taken something that can feel overwhelming and made it so simple. Their online wills are designed by attorneys and tailored for your state. And while you're on the Mama Bear website, it'll walk you through the whole process step-by-step so you feel confident that you're doing it right and that your loved ones will be taken care of.

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32:33Rachel Cruze:Well, if you're new to The Ramsey Show, it's important to know the way we filter our questions, we give our advice, we think through scenarios is in a pretty consistent manner, if you will, because there's a plan that we follow called the seven baby steps. And it really is the plan to get yourself in control of your money, get out of debt, save, invest, pay off your house, everything you really need to do in your life when it comes to your money and the order at which you should do it. So if you're not familiar with it, make sure to check it out. We'll put a link down below for those of you watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts to check out the seven baby steps, because this is one of the most helpful things that you can do for your financial journey.

33:15Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to, is it Luis in Indianapolis? Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me. So basically I'm calling because I'm trying to figure out whether selling my car is actually a smart financial decision or whether my partner is right about me being impulsive again. So a little back story. Basically in December, my old car broke down. I tried buying a cheap$2 ,000 to$3 ,000 car. but the very next day it wouldn't start. I got frustrated, made an emotional decision, and bought a$43 ,000 car, even though I always told myself I wouldn't buy a new car because of depreciation.

34:05So basically now I'm considering selling it, but I'm not trying to upgrade or buy another expensive car. I started a side business, mobile detailing, so I bought a van. So right now I wouldn't be in a rush buying a different car probably in the next month or so. My partner thinks I should just leave everything alone because I have a history of making impulsive decisions. And sometimes we're getting them later. So she also thinks buying the detailing that was also impulsive. So my question is basically would selling the new car and going back to a cheap car be me correcting a bad financial decision?

34:45or am I just making another impulsive decision and should keep what I already have? A wonderfully phrased question. So, so far, it doesn't sound like you think you're making impulsive decisions. So I want to know what Luis thinks about his own decision making, because so far it's just my partner thinks it's impulsive. Do you think it was impulsive to buy this brand new car? I definitely think it was impulsive. Like I said, I did bought that. But I've always had that mentality of, I listened to your guys' show since I was in high school. So I said I would never buy one because of depreciation. So I made sure to buy a$3 ,000 car.

35:23But how much did you have so you had the money?

35:25Rachel Cruze:There's a middle ground here. It doesn't have to be from a$3 ,000 to$43 ,000. There's a gap here, a$40 ,000 gap we can talk about. Is it on payments? So I actually bought it January, like I said, December of last year. and I actually paid it off end of February. So that year, yeah, I graduated nursing school of January of 25, had about 15K in savings and throughout that 2025, I gave up a total of like 35 ,000. So by February, I ended up paying - So did you spend all of your money on this car? On the car and I had a$24 ,000 student loan. So it was both of them. Oh, so you did, okay. Yeah, so basically all of my savings and earnings I spent on the car.

36:17Rachel Cruze:Yes, so that probably is not smart. Do you have any other debt, or are you debt-free now? I'm debt-free now. Wonderful. I make sure, you know, I don't have a budget. I don't do a budget or anything like that, but, you know, I kind of go every, I pay six every two weeks, so I just kind of go. Do you think, just spitballing, do you think a budget would help you make less impulsive decisions? I think so. I definitely think so. I tend to be very, yeah, I just tend to be kind of go with the flow, and I usually like structure. But for some reason when it comes to budgeting, I tend to find different kinds of budgeting apps, but nothing, I don't know, nothing really grabs my attention, so I just end up going to, you know, just kind of mental budget.

37:03Clearly that one's not working. So let's try a downloaded app for now. I'm going to gift you one called EveryDollar. I'm going to give you the premium version. It'll connect to your bank account. That's step one. We got to make a budget, and your partner can be your accountability partner, and saying, hey, that brand new car was not in the budget this month. Now, if you want to save up and get a car, let's put it in the budget and say$1 ,000 a month. We're going to put away in a sinking fund, and by the end of two years, we get$24 ,000.

37:27Rachel Cruze:Well, and how much do you make a year? So I make a total of like$90 ,000. Pick up some extra shifts in the side business, so I'd say about$100 ,000. Okay. Okay. And the van's paid off? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, this was impulsive too, right? In summer, I basically had a savings of like$15 ,000. I ended up putting$10 ,000 on like$4 ,000 or$5 ,000 on the van and the equipment. So then basically right now I have$5 ,000, you know, in savings. So I honestly, because you're under the, we say that you're, anything with motors and wheels that you own should be no more than 50 % of your take-home pay.

38:10Rachel Cruze:But let me get this right, though. The car, the$43 ,000 car, is different than the van, right? Correct. That's just more of a—the van, I usually just use it to, like, go from— And how much is it worth, would you say? The van, I'd say it's probably worth about$3 ,500. Oh, okay, okay. You know, it's paid off at this point. I think you would – I don't know if I would sell it because I think that you're going to take the hit of it being a one-year-old car and I don't know. You know what I mean? Like I – at this point, the car isn't the issue. You're the issue now with your money. Yeah. If you made like a blood oath to yourself and God and your partner that no more impulsive decisions, we're going to budget for all these things, then it's okay to keep it.

38:57Now, it might be a stark reminder of your past decisions, and if that's the case, if it's going to keep you up at night, slamming your head on a desk going, I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have done that, then sure, sell it just so you can stop letting that live in your head rent-free. But as far as our parameter goes, it is a lot of car for a young guy, even though you're making good money, but it's not violating the parameter so much that I would say you need to go sell this tomorrow, you're broke. It's not freeing up a payment. You're not needing it to pay off any other debt. So if you love the car, you can keep it.

39:26What kind of car is this? It's a 2025 Honda Accord hybrid touring. Okay, that's a sweet ride. I was obsessed with it, but now it's just kind of just sitting there. I mean, I don't even want to put the miles on there, right? Because eventually I do want to sell it.

39:46Rachel Cruze:No, you got to live. Just drive it until the wheels fall off. Yeah, you bought it. You got it? You got it? That should be the pact you make is I have to drive this thing for 10 years to prove to myself that I don't impulsively jump in and out of decisions. So your goal needs to be to build up an emergency fund of at least three months, put that aside, and then start investing your income. Because at least you can start making smart decisions today. Because the guy you've been at this point is a little bit, you know, on a whim and an expensive whim that you go on. And that's how you're going to live your whole life is kind of this like whim to whim versus saying I'm a guy that does have structure.

40:21Rachel Cruze:Sure, I have fun and I enjoy my money, but I'm gonna have a plan around it and some level of control when it comes to my spending so that I know what is going on. And that's what the budget's gonna help you do. And you put all that together, you're gonna do fine. Like you are, you worked hard. I mean, you paid off, gosh, the car and$24 ,000 in student loans in a year. So you obviously have a strong work ethic. I think you're gonna be able to make some great money. You just want that money to be put to good use. So I hope that's helpful. But yeah, stay on the line. We'll pick up and get you every dollar premium for free.

40:55I like these promises. I will not go into debt ever again unless it's a 15-year mortgage. And I will not make impulsive purchases. And I'm going to let my partner advise me and give me wisdom because they know me better than anyone.

41:07Rachel Cruze:She's probably like, stupid, Louise. What are you doing again? What are you doing? You bought a business? I bet he came home. That's what he said. He's like, listen, I bought a car detailing business. Every time he comes home, there's a new decision in the driveway. And then he's like, I bought a new car. She's like, what? And it's jumping from extreme to extreme. which can happen but you go from a beater$2 ,000 car that won't start and you get frustrated we don't tell people go buy $2 ,000 cars for the rest of your life if you have money yeah you could have gotten a great $15 ,000 car go get a$15 ,000 car there's that middle ground there that's important versus letting your emotions take over Louise so logic is going to help you my friends always move slow sleep on it Just sleeping on it might change your life.

41:51Whatever it is,$10,$10 ,000, give it a rest first.

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43:28Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with George Camel. And we are answering your questions at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. We're talking about your life and your money. Up next, we have Brooke in Salt Lake City. Hi, Brooke. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Good. I am just curious. How do you stay humble but stand up for yourself when your family members make comments about you not having money, but they don't know the whole story? No. What happens? We try to live a humble lifestyle and, you know, use the EveryDollar app.

44:15And we just get comments sometimes randomly, mostly from my husband's mother. and she says things like, oh, I wish you did things like your uncle and you were smart with your money instead of buying this, I don't know,$2 ,000 hunting bow is what happened yesterday. Your husband bought a hunting bow for$2 ,000? Yeah, he's going to. Okay. And she said... She doesn't think that's a wise decision. She doesn't think that we save for it and pay cash for things. would that make a difference to her or does she just think this is a stupid purchase um she her comment was mostly like uh your uncle saves and saves and then buys what he wants when he wants to well do you have the money you don't have to respond to anything she says she doesn't

45:04Rachel Cruze:get a vote in your life but did you not say that's what we do yeah we we did and she just said well it doesn't seem like that and it's just hard like to when people say things like that and without wanting to be like oh I have all this like how do you just without needing to prove yourself yeah yeah has she always been this way do you guys have this kind of relationship where most things she says bothers you a little bit okay yeah just maybe par for the course with mother-in-laws I don't know but I think this is maybe tip of the iceberg of she's just this kind of a judgier person and rubs you the wrong way.

45:41And like Rachel said, she doesn't know your life.

45:43Rachel Cruze:And super rude. Yeah, and just rude. Could you imagine telling your kid, I really wish you were more like. Why doesn't your husband step in and take her aside and go, hey, mom, listen, we don't need this. We don't need your opinion. Yeah, he did last night after the fact. And we've gotten comments sometimes from other family members that we have too, not like to this extent. It's been a little more subtle here and there. But he did pull her aside last night. But it's just he's like, how much do I tell her? Do I tell her we have all this money? Do I tell her how much we make? Do I tell her we have all this retirement?

46:16Like, is she worried about us? You know, I don't think he needs to show her a spreadsheet. I think he can just have a conversation saying, hey, mom, appreciate your comments. They are unneeded. We're doing fine financially. We don't go into debt for things. We save up.

46:30Rachel Cruze:You can mind your own business. I feel like she doesn't even deserve, I mean, on one extreme, she doesn't even deserve a comment. I'm just trying to shut this down. You know what I mean? We don't need to have conversations like this. We're doing fine. If we need help, if we're struggling, you'll know. No. We'll let you know if we need help from you. I won't let her know. Well, if they want the comments, if we're looking for your opinions, we will ask for them. That's it. I think it's that. If we want your opinion about money, we will ask. How is she doing financially? It's just a rude thing to say to someone.

46:59Do you think she's projecting? She definitely, I don't think she's doing amazing financially. I don't think she's doing awful, but I don't think that she's at a point where she should be at like her age. Okay. Yeah. Well, this is easier said than done, Brooke.

47:16Rachel Cruze:But I mean, I honestly, your whole life when you try to dance around what other people are thinking and trying to prove yourself, that's just a long, exhausting life. So there does have to be a level of, which is easier said than done. I know. but where you have to be like this is our story this is what we're choosing to do and other people can make judgments make comments but it is what it is and we're secure enough in our plan and we know what we're doing that we don't we don't even need the affirmation of the outside people to feel good about what we're doing we don't need them to even know um because it's none of their business and that's usually what we're like yeah yeah but this just bothered you this bothered you yeah what other comments are made you said that this was the most obvious comment are there like passive aggressive it's just been no it's just been things like where we make it a point to say in front of our kids instead of saying we don't have the money for that we say it's not in the budget right so we say that to people when when they're like hey do you want to go to St.

48:16George next week and we're like oh no sorry that's not in the budget we didn't plan for that this month and then they say oh okay you know like so it's just little things like that where you can tell that they're like oh like why can't you just do it sure yeah and it's hard to and you can't right

48:34Rachel Cruze:like you guys aren't at a point that we could yeah we're on baby step six and we have plenty of money we make about like 240 a year and put 18 to 20 away like oh way to go we're doing just fine but we just yeah we just budget well you're different priorities than other people some people want to go on vacations every couple months and you guys spend your money on a crossbow like it just it depends on your personality so as long as you're living out of your values and you're not you know sort of shorting yourself by saying we can't spend instead go here's what we choose to spend on that's what i do want to make sure bro because that you guys are enjoying your life but you're comfortable with the decisions you've made you don't yeah okay that's great that that's what i want i don't because sometimes we get people on trips and stuff all the time but we just the children aren't suffering next month yeah and you know to to shift the language a little bit just as a thought since you guys are on baby step six and since you could technically put it in the budget if you wanted to right right i do wonder if the if the sentiment of it's not in the budget usually means that we don't have the money for it right this second.

49:49But when you have the ability to, you know, you could just say,

49:56Rachel Cruze:sorry, we can't. And the kids start to hear more. We get to make decisions based on our value system because mom and dad have done so well. And because we followed a budget for so long, we actually have the ability to do some of this, but we're just choosing not to. Does that make sense? Gotcha. Versus villainizing the budget, not to other people. I'm thinking more of the kids, even though I tell my kids that all the time. I was like, we don't have the money for that. Stop it. Stop it. Shut up. Stop. Shuts down the conversation. It does. It does. But I always do wonder because you guys are on this side, right?

50:27Rachel Cruze:Like it would be different too if you were getting out of debt and you're on baby step one, two or three and you're, then it really is not in the, like you really don't have the money to do it. And that's a fair reality. But I wonder the narrative at which you talk. And again, this is less about other people, maybe more within your home. and for yourself to give yourself, I don't know, the permission to be like, yeah, we're able to do this, but we're going to just choose to say no because we don't want to spend the money there. Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, you want your kids and everyone else to see that you're making decisions out of confidence in who you are and what your value are instead of a place of weakness of this like, well, we just, I don't know.

51:06We can't. It's not in the budget. I do think the language matters.

51:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And we always say more is caught than taught. So the kids will grow up thinking, well, we never had money for that. Instead of, well, we had the money. We just, that wasn't a priority for us. For mom and dad. Yeah. And that they're grown up enough that they don't feel like they're having to be swayed in every situation. To do things because someone else asked them or pressured them. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Just a thought, Brooke. I appreciate the call though. But yeah. Yeah. The mother-in-law thing. I think there's just a point that you have to say, of course, of course she'd make these comments.

51:38Rachel Cruze:It is what it this and you keep moving on. Don't let it, don't let it pin you down and ruin your day.

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53:31Rachel Cruze:Well, George, I think some of my favorite memories growing up trips. It's probably my love for travel. Ramsey's love travel. We love, we do. We love to travel and mom and dad, they would always, we would like, we went from like camping in tents as they were getting out of their, you know, trying to out of the bankruptcy and all of that. And then by the time I hit probably late middle school, high school, we actually went on like vacations. We went on trips and mom and dad made it a priority. They do love to travel and they still do. But one of the things we did all the time is we, we cruised, we were a cruising family.

54:04Rachel Cruze:Wow. So you're either a cruiser or you're not. So I hear. And we did the big ships. Even as adults, we've done some in Europe. They've taken us before we had kids, but it was like Winston, my sister and her husband. And we did like a Baltic Sea, like a smaller boat, like some really fun experiences. And they're some of the best memories, again, I've had are these trips. And so thanks, Dave and Sharon, for that. But the great thing is, is that Dave's love for cruising has spilled over. It's infiltrated. Ramsey Solutions. Into Ramsey land, you can say. And the idea of going on a cruise called the Live Like No One Else Cruise came about a few years ago.

54:46Rachel Cruze:We did our first one. It was a year ago is when we were there, March of 25. And this is for people in baby steps four, five, and six. So once you're out of debt and you have a fully funded emergency. You can come if you're on seven. Oh, sorry. Yeah. A lot of seveners. And sevens. We forget about seveners. I know sevens, a lot of seveners actually. And it was like this, Hey, we talk about the sacrifice and everything you have to do to get yourself in a good financial position. And so you live like no one else. And then later you get to live and give like no one else. So let's do the live like no one else cruise for those people.

55:17Rachel Cruze:And let's celebrate and have fun and create memories with your life. Right. And to enjoy it with other people. And so we are, we're so pumped because we're doing it again. and this next one coming up is in march of 27 and it is uh it's filling up george seven nights western caribbean bahamas jamaica oh i want to take you we got grand cayman cozumel it's the entire ship is ramsay fans it's all that's it and the ramsay personalities dave and look at it it's beautiful it is a and it's a nice ship holland american dave had to had to approve you know that he had to he had to say that he would he said he doesn't want walmart of the seas out there.

55:57Yes, I know. He wants it to be classy. It is.

55:58Rachel Cruze:It's such a beautiful, nice ship. My kids, they're coming for part of it. I can't wait. It overlaps with our spring break. I know. And so, yeah, it just, it's so fun, you guys. And all the Ramsey personalities will all be there every night. We'll be, yeah, hanging out during the day. We have all new content. We're going to do the world's largest debt-free scream, live tapings of your favorite Ramsey shows, maybe even Smart Money Happy Hour. Who knows? Oh, look at us. Lord George, just laughing. We got to make a drink live on stage. It was disastrous and hilarious. It was great. It was great. But yeah, join us if you will.

56:29Rachel Cruze:Again, if you're on Baby Steps 4 or Beyond. And let's celebrate together so you can secure your cabin. And if you want to go to ramsysolutions.com slash events to book, or we have a little QR code on screen if you're watching on YouTube that you can click on. But we want to hang out with you next March, March of 27. Come cruise with us. It'll be some good memories. All right. Let's go to Houston, Texas. and we have a Cormac. Is that how we would say it? Is that it? Did I pronounce it correctly? Just Cormac. Cormac. Okay, perfect. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Yes, how can we help?

57:05So my wife and I, over a previous few years, between bad luck and bad decisions, we racked up about$120 ,000 in debt, not including our home. Feeling the pinch, trying to get things right. I've discovered the program a few months ago and have the$1 ,000 plus saved up just trying to get out of debt. However, what I've noticed is because our minimum payments are so high, we're making such a small dent. We're wondering if we're better off doing a Chapter 13 bankruptcy and just consolidating everything or cashing out one of my Roth IRAs, which would almost cover the full debt, and trying to rebuild.

57:54Wow.

57:55Rachel Cruze:Can I ask, what is the$120 ,000? What kind of debt is it? A combination of the vehicle and the mostly credit card. Vehicle and credit card. Okay. How much do you owe on the vehicle today? $20 ,000, and that's about what it's worth. $20 ,000, and that's about what you can get for it. Okay. If I'm lucky. Any money saved besides the$1 ,000? I've got a couple of dollars saved. But I do have a federal employee, so I have my TSP, which is like the 401k. Plus, before I joined that, I had a Roth IRA saved up, which I have about$110 ,000 in. Okay. So it's$100 ,000 in credit card debt. Yes. Did you try to start a business, or what was that used on?

58:44um uh fortunately i went through uh over the past five years there was a divorce that was contested sorry that was heated um i my grandmother and my father passed away within several months a couple months of each other okay wow um and then good stuff did happen where i met my now wife and we have remarried and we have two beautiful children of our own um but those also cost money.

59:08Rachel Cruze:Yeah. You've had a lot happen. It's been an active couple of years. Yes. Okay. So how much money do you and your new wife make? Combined about$250 ,000 a year. Oh, well, that's great. Well, are you guys investing right now? At the exact moment? No, because I've been, I pulled my auto pull out of my paycheck. I withdrew all that, or excuse me, I stopped all that to try and get a handle on the debt. Good. And same with your spouse? Correct. Okay. So I'm just looking at all the options here. So we never encourage bankruptcy. Of course. It will destroy your life for the next 10 years a lot more than it might help it, especially with Chapter 13, where you're just restructuring and you're getting on a payment plan.

59:59And so I would look at this amazing income and then your expenses to go, what can we cut out of our lives? How do we make more so that we can get ahead of this? Because right now you're saying the interest alone on$100 ,000 of credit card debt, what is the minimum payment per month? And what's the interest every month? I've caught my head. The combined payments are well over$3 ,000 a month. Okay. And the average, if you average out the interest, it's about 25%. But are you guys taking home about$15K a month? No, I have a child support payment from my first marriage, so that has a good dip into it.

1:00:39And then just medical expenses as well as we have a second home that we are trying to unload. But in the meantime, it's still costing us money as well. What will the proceeds be from that if you sell it? uh i mean at this point we're about to sell it for just cost just to get out from under it okay uh but but that'll free up at least the mortgage payment correct which would be about uh including the tax payment about two thousand a month okay great would that help you get ahead would you be above water here if you freed up the two grand my concern is my job has a mandatory retirement at 56 and I'm 38.

1:01:21I only have 18 years left to work. And because I do not have a college degree, I don't feel like I'll be able to get a similar job pay scale wise. So I am just, why I am hesitant to drain the one retirement account is because I'm just not, I'm worried I will not have enough time to rebuild it before I am forced to retire. Sure. That is a concern. and we only tell people if you're facing bankruptcy it's the only time that you would ever even consider dipping into retirement but I would still use that as a last ditch effort not a let's go green light drain your Roth IRA today I would do everything in my power to use your current assets in future income to knock this debt out over the next couple of years which I think if you took a good hard look at the budget you could find some money.

1:02:15Rachel Cruze:Yes, that's what I'm wondering because I'm like okay say you guys lived off of 4k a month which will feel very different than probably how you have with some child support um payments you said um i mean i feel like you can i feel like you could you guys could find four or five thousand a month yes over the past six months we've cut out uh we sold the car um we like so we're trying to get rid of the spare house we have cut all streaming things we're We're trimming. I picked up a second job. Okay, good, good. Because 5K a month thrown at this debt, you're done in about two years. Yeah, that's what I...

1:02:51So find 5K out of this amazing$240 ,000 a year income and plus extra.

1:02:57Rachel Cruze:Maybe some extra, yeah. You can climb out of this without touching retirement. Yeah, you can. It's going to take some time, but do not touch retirement. Don't file for bankruptcy. You guys have the income and the work ethic to get out of it. It may take two years.

1:03:13Bye.

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1:04:43Rachel Cruze:So one of the sneaky things about debt, I would say, and building a life around it, and we're talking everything from putting vacations on credit cards to financing furniture to all the above, is you see the price of something and you assume that's it. That's it. But the problem is when you use debt, there's a little thing called interest, George, that... That'll get you. That'll get you. It'll get you. People think, well, it's no big deal. And they don't teach this stuff in school. Yes. They're not telling you what 20 % APR actually means when it comes to that purchase. Yep. So we wanted to kind of do the math, if you will, on what it actually really is costing you, the hidden cost of this quote unquote American life that people build.

1:05:31Rachel Cruze:And when you do it on debt, again, the numbers change pretty quickly. Now more than ever, there's a way they'll get you out of there with that thing. regardless of what payment you can afford and what the interest rate is that they'll tuck into the fine print. So let's talk about sticker price versus actual price. Let's start with a new couch. That's a famous one. You go into any furniture store, they always have some deal happening with the interest. Zero down, 0 % for the first whatever. So let's talk about a new couch. Let's say the sticker price is$1 ,500 and it's 20 % APR for 36 months. So when you hear the word APR, That's an abbreviation for annual percentage rate.

1:06:10This is essentially the full cost per year of borrowing that money. So it's not just the interest rate. It's actually the interest rate plus whatever fees they have all baked into one final rate. So 20 % APR for 36 months. What you'd actually pay for that$1 ,500 couch is$2 ,007. Gross. So over 500 bucks in interest alone. $500. But think about that. That makes the effective interest rate about 33%. About a third of that couch, you paid extra in interest. Extra to go. That's crazy.

1:06:41Rachel Cruze:Okay, let's look at credit cards. Let's say you got a$6 ,600 balance, and you have a 22.8 % APR, and you'll be paying about$300 a month. So if you do that, it's going to take you about two years and five months to pay off this credit card, and the final price of the credit card is$8 ,628. dollars so over two thousand dollars in interest alone just by saying hey we're gonna just uh we're gonna live life on a credit card may or may not be able to pay it off fully every month so we're gonna kind of just keep it around and then it ends up with a balance of you have six thousand six hundred dollars wow now it's okay can I say that's not even minimum payment that's you're paying extra okay you're ready for this so then option two we have here same apr 22.8 percent and you just do minimum payments, okay?

1:07:33Rachel Cruze:The payoff time is 20 years and one month, and the final price will be$17 ,060. So you're paying 10, almost 15, I mean,$10 ,500 in just interest, if you're just paying the minimum payments. That's wild. And if you are able to watch on YouTube, Spotify, we've got the charts up to visualize all of this. And it is staggering just to look at the numbers on this to think, now, I hope nobody takes 20 years to pay off six grand. No, surely not. But listen. The fact remains, a lot of people are just making minimum payments because they can't or don't know to put extra on it. Yeah, maybe not 20 years, but for a good amount, for sure.

1:08:09Can you imagine? And whatever that thing was you put on the credit card long ago.

1:08:15Rachel Cruze:20 years ago? That's a lot of stupid tax to pay. Let's go back 20 years. You got a little 2006 action. What did you buy in 2006? What decisions was I making at 17 years old? At 18, was I? I don't want to know the stupid stuff I was buying. Wow. Okay, now let's move on to a bigger one, a car. Yep. So sticker price,$35 ,000, financing at 7 % for five years. Final price,$41 ,582. So an extra, we'll go$6 ,600 in interest alone. And think about this. That car is no longer worth$35 ,000 because we know that, you know, cars go down in value about 60 % in five years. Yeah. So that$35 ,000 car, you'll be lucky if it's 15 to 20 grand.

1:09:00Rachel Cruze:Well, what's hard is 35, and that's before sales tax, registration, dealer fees, warranties, all of that. So that easily could be out the door at 40, 42. Ouch. Yep. So you're watching what it is. It is. That's why financing a car is one of the biggest wealth killers for the middle class in America today. You don't realize just how bad it is when you're paying interest on a depreciating asset going down in value. All right. Finally, the house. Now, this one can feel like the least dumb decision because it's a house. It's an asset. It's going to go up in value over time. So let's talk about a sticker price of$350 ,000 for that house, and you're going to put 20 % down.

1:09:38So 70 grand down, and you're going to do a 30-year mortgage at 6 % APR. Well, the final price of that$350 ,000 house is$674 ,000, around$324 ,000 in interest, which is almost as much as the house. house. That's crazy. Wild, wild. And if you did a 15 year mortgage, then you'd pay$179 ,000 less

1:10:03Rachel Cruze:in interest. So almost$200 ,000 you save in interest just by paying it off in 15 versus 30. Which is why we always tell people, just get the 15. Don't get a 30 and think you're going to pay it off like a 15. Force yourself in it. Yeah. And I think what's hard is, again, in these individual situations, it may feel like a good idea. Like, sure, let's just put the vacation on the credit card or we need some new furniture. So in this one situation, we're going to do this. But what happens is that this builds over time. And for a lot of people, you're not able to pay it off in six months to a year if you're just living paycheck to paycheck and not really making a plan for it.

1:10:40Rachel Cruze:So to make another debt decision easily could come up nine months, 12 months after the other decision, right? And it just keeps piling up. And then you realize how much money of your money you're sending, not just for the item, because it's not just the sticker price, but all the interest to the banks and everything. And these industries are there to make money and they know how to do it for, in America especially. Oh my gosh, how much people take out debt for this stuff. The amount of interest lenders are collecting every year would boggle your mind. So here's the thing to remember. Wealthy people earn interest, broke people pay interest.

1:11:15You want to be on the wealthy side earning it instead of paying it. And remember this, the sticker price is never the final price. So anytime you see that, anytime there's a salesperson involved, they are trained to sell. They are trained to let you focus on the features and the benefits and how you're going to feel when you leave with that thing. Not the fine print, not the APR, not how much you're going to pay in full. And the taxes and fees will add a little, the interest will add a lot.

1:11:40Rachel Cruze:That's right. Yep. And minimum payments, it's a debt trap, like that kind of system, that systematic thinking of I'll just pay minimum payments for the rest of my life. That keeps you, keeps you, guarantees you in a cycle of debt for a really, really long time versus saying, hey, I want to get out of this. I'm going to stop going into debt and I'm actually going to aggressively pay it off beyond the minimum payments to get out of debt as soon as possible. and lastly cash changes the math and the mindset yes saving up feels slower yes you're gonna have to say no right now but it's actually the fastest path to taking control of your money and it makes you think twice when you were to save up and actually see that amount of money leave your bank account you think twice about that couch you go can we find one on facebook marketplace because we're like are we good it took us three months to save up for that couch i don't know if i want to let go of my hard-earned money think about how much of your your working hours are spent just giving it to a lender.

1:12:35That's crazy to think about.

1:12:36Rachel Cruze:Absolutely. And I'll say this too, when you spend in cash and like larger purchases, you do, you do realize, okay, I may not need that. Like if it's, if that cash is there, right. And in our plan, we would say you can pay for it. Like if you have the money for it, that is fine. But so we've run into this with, with our van, even furniture. We've, we've had our furniture for gosh, it's going on how many years, seven years. Wow, congrats. And so there's a couple of things we want to upgrade, but you're kind of like, well, the kids are still, I almost find myself being like, do we need to? I don't know.

1:13:08Rachel Cruze:You know, because I don't know if I want to. It may hurt to spend that kind of money, but you don't have that emotional attachment always with your money when debt is being used. It is just a sign of a, you know, a signature. You sort of bypass a big part of your brain that's the logical side and go straight to that. Well, I want it now. It's the toddler in you. Yes, yes. Do not let the toddler win. So the average individual, the average American, the average broke person just asks, how much per month? How much down? That's the problem. Financially wise people, wealthy people, they ask how much?

1:13:39What is the full cost, total cost? And if I don't have that amount, I'm not buying it. And if you do that, you will take control of your money. So we've got an app that helps you do this. It's called EveryDollar. You can create sinking funds for that next big purchase and do it with confidence and peace. We'll drop a link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube to that app. Thank you.

1:14:31Rachel Cruze:Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps. The ones who make a plan to protect their family and the ones who hope everything will just work out. But hope isn't a financial plan. When you get married or have kids, your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, will your family have protection or uncertainty? Well, at Ramsey, we recommend term life insurance that 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20 year term for the years that your kids are at home and your mortgage is still being paid off.

1:15:11Rachel Cruze:That's why Winston and I have our term life coverage through Zander Insurance. They're an independent broker who works for you, shopping all the top companies to find the most competitive prices on coverage you need. Get instant quotes online in just minutes at Xander.com or call 800-356-4282 to get your family protected with term life insurance. That's Xander.com or 800-356-4282.

1:15:55Rachel Cruze:Well, if you're listening, you're one of the best pieces of marketing we have up there in the world. When you share the show and you tell your friends and family about it, it is so helpful because we want to be able to help and talk to as many people as possible to get them in control of their money. So if you will like, comment, subscribe, share the show, that helps us out a ton. Mention it at your next dinner party. Yeah, just throw it out there. What you're listening to. Play it in the background and they go, what is that? What is that about? Instead of Spotify with some music. Who's that sultry voice?

1:16:25That's George Camel.

1:16:26Rachel Cruze:That's what's happening. No, Eric Clapton playlist here. No, no, no. We got the Ramsey Show. You got me. Yeah. It's all you need. All right. Let's go to Ben in Chattanooga. Hi, Ben. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. How can we help today? So my main question is, should I stretch for a$1.1 million family farm dream on 186 thousand dollar salary. My wife's grandparents owned a 28-acre farm in the Northwest Georgia Mountains. My wife has always dreamed about living on a property like this. About six years ago, her grandparents put it up for sale. We found that we were in a position to make an offer, so we offered$500 ,000 for it.

1:17:17We were living in the Boise area at the time, And that would have been contingent on our house. However, they ended up selling it to someone who offered a higher price, close to the full price. It was$586K. We believe the real estate agent kind of had some influence on that. And this has been kind of a lasting source of disappointment for my in-laws and the family. Now we've relocated to the northwest Georgia area. The current owners have offered to sell us 17 acres of the farmland for$500 ,000. However, the county blocked the lot split after we completed the survey due to a maximum number of six residences on a private road.

1:18:09We went through the variance process with the county. It was denied. um after that the owners offered us at least a purchase arrangement where we put up the price for the 17 acres um 500k with no payments and then after 36 months we would purchase the remaining 11 acres um i countered with just an idea of leasing the land outright for 300 a month and then having a search right of refusal that when they're ready to sell, we could get the land for 1.1, which they said they liked that. They're thinking about doing that in a year or two. My financial situation, I have about$700 ,000 in retirement funds, about$450 ,000 in cash from the sale of our previous house, about$50K in a stock portfolio, about$20K in an emergency fund, and about$30K in an HSA.

1:19:19And so that's about$1.2 million for my net worth. My in-laws have offered to pay$1 ,000 a month if absolutely needed to pay for this so that it can come back into the family. However, that would come out of their equity in their house at this time.

1:19:39Rachel Cruze:And you're working real hard for this piece of property. Yes. So everybody's working really hard. And so my concerns are just affordability for myself. That's a big debt for my salary. Are you guys renting right now? $650. Yes, we're renting a small home. Would you think about putting the$480 down as a down payment? Because that would be almost half of it. Yeah, I would be putting down at least the$450 ,000 and keep my emergency fund is what I would. What about the stocks? Could you liquidate those? I would like to keep those and keep them growing. Okay, my quick math. But if I needed to, I would.

1:20:27Rachel Cruze:Tell me this, Ben. If you did put down$480 ,000, it looks like the payments then, and this would be on a 30-year, not a 15, we recommend a 15, but it would be around$4 ,000 a month. And do you guys bring home around$15 ,000? I'm just trying to figure out if we can make this mathematically work at any level. Yeah, what's your after-tax monthly income without any 401K contributions or health care premiums? What is your after-tax monthly income? um so after tax without any of um my benefits would probably be around let's see it'd probably around like 12 000 okay or probably more like 11 000 or so if you did a 15 year like we recommend that'd be about half your take-home pay and so you're worried about that legitimately yeah that's going to make you guys house poor now what does the future hold can you buy this thing can you set up an agreement where you purchase this thing let's say two years from now and you guys just sock away cash i mean that is uh kind of what i'm thinking that i would need to do in order to because no one else is jonesing for this property right and they yeah and the people who own it don't really they're okay getting out yeah do you want to move to a bin um yeah it's a beautiful Oh, you do?

1:21:45Okay. I'm sure.

1:21:46Rachel Cruze:I mean, the North, gosh, North Georgia mountains are gorgeous. My issue is always just does the math add up and am I going to feel like this is going to weigh down on me with that amount of debt for 30 years? Like that's always my concern. Yeah, I would not do this today. I think there is a future where this can make sense and you're not stressed out about it. I mean, you guys have waited this long for the dream, so let's make sure the dream is a blessing and not a burden once we get into it. Now, do you guys have kids? Yes, we have five kids, 12 and under. Does this move make sense for you guys?

1:22:26Like if you just did this thing next year, would this work with your jobs? Yeah, so I would need to commute, but I'm already commuting. We live nearby. This is the whole reason we moved here.

1:22:40Rachel Cruze:okay yeah well i would see if you can set up a two i mean if this is really what you guys are wanting and you're like this is going to be a a long-term play for us um then yeah i would say give it two years because i think after stocking away some cash and then maybe cashing out some you may have to cash out some stocks just to make it work because you have plenty in retirement you guys have 700 000 that's what you said yeah yeah so your retirement's i mean all of it is you're just kind of, you're going to be really real estate heavy in general after this, but, but over time it's gonna, it will, it will even out.

1:23:16Um, which I'll be honest with you.

1:23:18Rachel Cruze:That's what, I mean, when my husband and I, when we built and we moved to 19, we were pretty real estate heavy. Yeah. I was the same way. Yeah. And, and over years you, you work to, to even it back out. Right. And then have more cash and retirement, all of that. But, um, so I think that's okay for, for the short term. So if this is something that you both really, really want to, then there's going to have to be some sacrifices made. And that's going to be putting away money, seeing if you can get an agreement with them that a purchase in two years, holding the value with it not going up. Like if you can hold the purchase price today and do it in two years and and then possibly having to cash out some stocks just to make up a difference.

1:23:57Rachel Cruze:because I would rather have breathing room and rebuild in the market investments when you're not penalized. Like I'm not talking about retirement. Don't take anything out of retirement. But I would do that because it sounds like a dream. I mean, it just it sounds amazing and beautiful. And it's been in the family like it would be worth going in and sacrificing for two years to get it. And then knowing the next three to four years, we may be real estate heavy, but it's not going to it's not going to sink us. It's not going to sink you. Yeah, I mean, I would highly consider it. And then see what you guys can reasonably put away to go.

1:24:33Can we put six, seven grand away for the next two years and have 170 grand on top of what we currently have to make this thing make sense? And are you guys working with a good agent? We have not asked an agent yet about any of this. I would get them involved to see. Make sure the comps are right. Is it actually worth$1.1 million? Are they just squeezing you because they know you really want the property? Is this thing really worth$800 ,000? Okay. So that's the part I want you to do your homework on, not just go, well, it's$1.1. It has to be$1.1. You might be able to get it for a lot cheaper if you have some negotiating power, and that's the power of a great agent.

1:25:13So RamseySolutions.com slash agent if you want to get a second opinion, and I would, to make sure that you save the most on this thing and don't get squeezed just out of, it's our dream. Let's just do it no matter what.

1:25:24Rachel Cruze:Well, and you've already played the emotional card because I know it's a family property. You know what I mean? Like, you're going to have to, yeah, do some good negotiating with it. But, yeah, the answer today, Ben, is no. It'll be 50 % of your take-home pay, the payment, and that would not be worth it. But wait two years? Possibly.

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1:26:32Medicare annual enrollment runs October 15th through December 7th. So review your plan with Chapter now and avoid expensive mistakes later. To talk to the unbiased Medicare experts at Chapter, go to askchapter.org slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's askchapter.org slash Ramsey.

1:27:03Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with George Camel, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour with me as well. And we're answering your calls. So the board is full as we speak. But call in 888-825-5225. We'll see if we can get you in in the next hour to answer your questions about money. All right, let's go to Fort Wayne, Indiana. And we have Tyler on the line. Hi, Tyler. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. this is incredible absolutely so real you know quick and short to the point my job moved a year ago due to a building closure and my 15 minute commute turned into a minimum 70 minute commute so yeah uh so my question is is is it unreasonable to forfeit or to consider forfeiting our only debt of$100 ,000, which is our mortgage, a 3 % interest rate.

1:28:05Our payment's only$809 in exchange to get, you know, let's say 40 minutes or a half hour closer to my job. The issue we've had in making this is we purchased our home pre-COVID for$174, typical ranch out in the country, pole barn, et cetera. it's worth$300 to$350, depending on who you ask. That's to keep our mortgage the same, moving closer to work. That same price point, I don't want to say less nice, but we wouldn't be happy with that. So we'd have to go up to$400,$450 to have an equal living situation, if you will. and we just don't really feel comfortable with your expertise on that. What's your income?

1:29:01Mine this year, I'm on track to make$140 ,000. My wife, around$40 ,000. So$180 ,000 income. Okay, so she's$40 ,000. $180 ,000 total. Yeah,$9 ,000 a month being home after retirement's taken out.

1:29:17Rachel Cruze:How much would that be before retirement's taken out? um let's just say my checks about 22 2 500 a week um hers is um about the same every two weeks okay nice so here's the deal even if you moved up in house as much as it'll hurt because your mortgage payment is so tiny right now it's still going to be such a reasonable part of your take home pay. So if it's less than 25 % of your after-tax monthly income, go for it because you're going to increase your quality of life. Yes. Because right now, 140 minutes round trip every day is what you're talking about? 90 minutes, yes, an hour and 10, which ultimately translates to about 40 ,000 miles annually on a vehicle.

1:30:07I sold my truck I had because of the gas guzzling, you know, bought a paid for cash, a little small EV car that cut that bill and, you know, just a fraction of what I was paying in fuel cost. But, you know, still my life has been made away on the highway. Yeah. And what will your new mortgage be? How much would you take on? To get an equivalent of what we have out in the country just closer, it would be almost about 2 ,000.

1:30:40Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I just ran the numbers. It looks like 1 ,800. But you could go up to 2 ,500 to stay even within the parameter. So you guys are still, it's still very conservative, Tyler, just on a retrospect to like loosen a little bit of like, you guys would be fine. I know it would hurt. But your quality of life, I'm like, oh my gosh, if you could get 30 minutes close to work, right, or 20, you're saving almost an hour and a half, almost two hours. Like, it's pretty wild. right and it's been nice you have kids pay cash for everything we have we do we have one that just graduated we're paying cash for her future endeavors of school and then we have a first grader um that's obviously our next concern is we don't want to wait until we're uh we'll say totally vested with him being in school right i get that separate him yep he's in first grade so that's why we're wanting to kind of uh make a move sooner than later if this is what we want to do Is the area that you guys would be moving to a good area?

1:31:43Rachel Cruze:Like, is it for a family and school system and, you know, life? Like, your life in general, not just the commute side? Would it be a good move? Does it excite you? I think we would enjoy it. I mean, we live out into the proverbial boonies right now. So we don't want to go into town necessarily and have neighbors. But ultimately, that comes at a cost. Hey, listen. Pesky neighbors. And the way AI is going, you may want to be off the grid. So, Tyler, you might be. The boonie sounds mighty nice these days. You may end up moving back out there. No, I'm just kidding. But the overall question, I found this to be true, that the low interest rates are a curse for many people.

1:32:24It's become golden handcuffs to where they go, well, we wanted to move, but we can't let go of this low interest rate. I'm going, the way Tyler's going, you guys could pay off this house in seven years and have a 0 % interest rate. And so that would be my goal for you guys is to choose the life you want and date the rate knowing it's going to change. It'll fluctuate. You can always refinance later. And more than likely, you'll just pay the dang thing off by making extra payments to where it's a moot point a couple of years from now. But overall, it sounds like this is the right move for your life right now.

1:32:54Rachel Cruze:And very conservative still, just so you know. I mean, you guys, I wouldn't. If jumping to 6 % rate was going to make this payment 50 % of your take-home pay, we'd say, well, it's just too much house in general. That's right. All right, let's go to Avery in Tyler, Texas. Hi, Avery. Welcome to the show. Hello. Hi, Avery. Are you there? I'm here. Hi. How are you? Doing great. How are you guys? We're doing good. How can we help? So I am 19 years old. I have a job that the payment is kind of different, and I make anywhere from$5 ,000 to$9 ,000 a month. Okay. And I'm kind of in the stage where I'm saving up for a down payment on the house.

1:33:46And I'm having trouble trying to, I guess, get myself to have a little fun with my money. What does that look like for you? What's something you know you should be doing more of specifically? Something I should be doing more of? Yeah, you're saying I need to have more fun. What does that mean? Is that going out with friends? Is that going on a trip? Is that buying something, a car? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like I have a fun life. I enjoy my life. But I guess like tickets, like events, stuff like that, that I'm just kind of I know I can't afford. But$300 for a ticket is also$300 away from a down payment on the house.

1:34:27So I'm just kind of curious if, like, am I supposed to do that, I guess?

1:34:36Rachel Cruze:Well, first and foremost, I would not feel like you have to or should, you know, X, Y, and Z. I think it is what you want to do, what you enjoy doing. the problem people get in trouble with with money when they are of saver which it sounds like you are is they end up being controlled by money so much that any decision they make where they have to let go of anything creates such anxiety that the money now is a burden and it was supposed to be the thing that actually frees you to make decisions and have options so so yeah i would say i would i would personally budget avery a percentage of your income that you can just spend and enjoy and force yourself to do it.

1:35:17Guilt-free.

1:35:17Rachel Cruze:But there's a limit, right? You could say up to this point because you have a goal for a down payment and you're going to need X amount saved each month for that to hit that goal. So if you map it out in a budget, you actually give yourself permission to spend. So I would, I mean, I would force myself to spend a percentage of my income to enjoy it because that's part of this whole holistic part of money with you.

1:35:50Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:36:42Rachel Cruze:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? Sometimes the hardest financial step is the one that you have been avoiding. And if your private student loans are past due, Why Refi can help you explore low fixed rate refinancing options and payment plans tailored to your circumstances. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Elizabeth in Nevada, or Nevada, as they say. Nevada, Nevada. No, I'm a Nevada girl. Nevada. Forever. Elizabeth says, I'm fortunate to work for a company that puts 15 % of my salary into my 401k without me having to contribute anything.

1:37:21Once we wrap up baby step three and start baby step four, should I add my own 15 % in addition to my employer's contribution or direct that money toward paying off our house instead? My husband plans on contributing 15 % and his company will match 10%. Goodness gracious. These employer matches are crazy. Well done. Elizabeth Nevada.

1:37:41Rachel Cruze:That's a good plan. Well, the plan doesn't change. You're still going to invest 15 % of your own salary, which I know sounds crazy, but you're putting 30, let's say you make$100 ,000, you're putting 30 grand away. Only 15 of that is yours. That's pretty incredible. So I always tell people, if you have too much money in retirement, you can write me hate mail and you can send me a check, whatever you want to do. It's up to you. But I love the idea of building that muscle of investing because you may not have this job forever. That's right. And so it's great to just go, I can live off 15. I can live off of 15 % less than I make.

1:38:14Rachel Cruze:Yes. No matter where I work, I'm really good at investing. That muscle is built up. And I think it's easy to get a little lackadaisical when the employer is doing all the work for you. That's right. And that's why we even say the employer match in general, even if it's 3%, obviously not 15, if it's 3, 5%, it doesn't count towards your 15%. Because you're exactly right, George, you're, there's something about putting your own money away and knowing that, hey, I can do this. You always say eat the vegetables first. Eat the vegetables first. And then you have a lot of freedom then to say, well, we really can enjoy and be very generous.

1:38:47Rachel Cruze:There's so much freedom in knowing that what is taken care of that needs to be taken care of is done. And I'm telling, I mean, I don't know how old they are, but if they've got a couple of decades on them and they're investing this much. It's insane. Does she say how much she makes? No, they don't say. I wonder how much they make. But I feel like this is a pretty, you're doing pretty well. This is not like I'm making$12 an hour and my employer matches 15 % of my salary. This is probably, they're making good six figures together. Well done. Way to go. Good job, Elizabeth. All right, let's go to Valentina.

1:39:20Rachel Cruze:Oh, beautiful name. In Nashville, here in Nashville. Hey, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Yeah, well, I was calling because my husband and I just welcomed our first baby, a little boy. Oh, congratulations. Thanks so much. We're over the moon about him. But we currently have$33 ,000 in debt. And we've been working on paying off our debt. We don't have much in our savings. My husband works a full commission job. So meaning that his income is like it's a variable. I do have a base pay. I return, I go back to work next week, actually. I work as a paralegal.

1:39:59So my question is, how should we be prioritizing paying off our debt, saving money with his variable income as well?

1:40:08Rachel Cruze:Well, it really it stays the same with the baby steps. So that thousand dollars is is still that starter emergency fund. And then everything else you guys will throw at that debt. How much do you guys make a year together? So together we make this year we'll clear. I just got a raise. So it'll be one hundred sixty thousand dollars. Oh, good. Well, the good thing about this is you guys won't be in debt for too long. I mean, how quickly do you think you could pay this off? Well, our goal is to have it within a year or sooner. Okay, yeah. And if you really ramp it up and you do it in nine months, then again, that starter emergency fund is only there for nine months.

1:40:51Rachel Cruze:And everything is being thrown into debt. And then if something does come up, and this is true for anybody, regardless if you have kids or not, if something comes up, then what you were throwing at that debt, which would have been, what, probably$4 ,000-ish possibly? a month, just if an emergency happens, don't throw it at the debt that month, fix the emergency. And for sure, that amount of money should fix most things, that$4 ,000. And if you have to pause for one or two months to fix whatever life throws at you, you do that and you just do it at the speed of cash. And so instead of it going to debt, you use that money to fix the emergency.

1:41:31Rachel Cruze:But for you guys for nine months, we'll just, you know, you kind of, you say a prayer and be like, all right, I think we can go through this. But I understand - Is he making zero in a given month or is it like it fluctuates between four and six? So for him, actually, it's fluctuated between like$6 ,200 to$8 ,000. Oh, okay. So he hasn't had a$0 month. No, that's correct. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna budget based off of the floor. His lowest month in the last couple months, we can say, we know it's gonna be at least six. Let's add that to yours. Let's budget off of that. And then anything above that goes toward the debt.

1:42:06Yeah.

1:42:06Rachel Cruze:So you guys will be budgeting your income with saying we're going to be throwing X amount of debt. And then if he makes extra, that's an extra two grand to throw out what was already budgeted to pay off the debt. So, yeah, this could speed it up pretty quick. And I would have an aggressive goal of how are you guys with this awesome income and this small amount of debt comparatively. Just aim for six months. And if it takes seven, we're still going to cheer you on. But that's$5 ,500 going toward the minimums plus extra. If you can just say$5 ,500 a month goes towards the debt no matter what, then we're going to make sure our bills are paid, of course, and insurance and all that.

1:42:39But if you guys can just focus as a team and go$5 ,500 must go towards debt this month, you'll be done in six months. Yeah, that's amazing.

1:42:47Rachel Cruze:Incredible. All right, let's go to – I know. Congrats. Let's go to Daniel in Sacramento. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel and George. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help? All right. So I have a question for you guys about whether it be wise to sell my house so I can cash flow nursing school. To give you guys some quick stats on me, I'm 37 years old, no kids, not married. $105 ,000 is my gross income. I do have$30 ,000 in a personal loan and$9 ,000 remaining on a student loan. My house is valued at anywhere from$525 ,000 to$550 ,000. And I owe$375 on it still.

1:43:32The two programs I'm looking at, they're both bachelors of nursing programs. So one is a two-year state program that's about$30 ,000 for the two years. The other one is an accelerated one-year program that's almost$100 ,000 for the one year. And so that's why I don't want to go back into debt, obviously, for that. But it seems like the house would be a way to cash flow that. but also I'd hate to sell the house and, you know, lose out on that.

1:44:02Rachel Cruze:Yeah, because you'll be getting like$175 ,000 in equity to fix a$30 ,000 problem. It feels out of balance to me. Yeah, and with the salary being that, I mean, I make$105 ,000 as a nurse here in California, it'd probably be, you know,$150 ,000 to$180 ,000 is what I've kind of researched around there. And obviously that's a big enough jump, but I don't know if it's worth, It's enough to offset selling a house, considering how expensive houses can be in California. Yeah. What are you doing now for work? I work for the state government. I'm a manager. And what's driving the urgency around this? Does this have to happen in two months from now, or can it happen a year and two months from now?

1:44:42No. So, I mean, I finished up most of the prereqs. So right now I'm kind of preparing for the application season. So if I were to get into a program, it'd probably be either the summer of 27 or the fall of 27. Okay.

1:44:55Rachel Cruze:So do you have, I mean, if it's 15, if the$30 ,000 for two years, is that$15 ,000 then per year? Yeah, that's my guess. I mean, I don't know, Dan, I would just work extra and save. Yeah, can you kind of just cash flow this thing and keep the house? Yeah, like$1 ,000 a month will get you to the fall of 27. Well, because the only other thing is with these programs, given the nature of my work, I can only work Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, and these programs are full-time. So I'd have to leave my job in order to do these programs. So you'd have no income for two years? Correct, yeah. Yikes. Well, that's not really going to work.

1:45:35Rachel Cruze:So you were thinking about living off of the equity of your home to do it? Yeah, and I have an uncle that has an ADU. I've already talked to him, and he's considered letting me stay there for a year or two years rent-free, and then I just have to support myself. Can you work nights after doing school? Not at my current job. No, no, no, but while you're in school. That's possible. Okay. I mean, if you could figure out a way to save up 15 grand between now and then, cash flow it, and then figure out, hey, can I work nights and live on nothing while I'm in school? I would consider it, but I would not be going any more in debt.

1:46:09Rachel Cruze:And I don't think I would sell my house for this. No, I would try to keep it, man. You're obliterating your wealth building plan by going backwards and having nothing to show for it by the end.

1:46:27We'll see you next time.

1:46:51of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. How much money are we talking? Well, the average every dollar budgeter frees up$395 in their very first budget. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average. So why are you still listening to me? Go download every dollar for free and start saving more money right now.

1:47:27Rachel Cruze:We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show, but it doesn't always happen, George. Alas, there's only so much time in the day. Only so much. And in the show. I know. So if you do have a money question, though, and you want an answer to your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So this is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. and you will get your answer, your money question answered the way we would answer it here on the show. In fact, it's even so smart, George, it has some follow-up questions to get your specific numbers and exactly what you need.

1:48:00Rachel Cruze:And it's even the questions we would ask you here if you were calling in. So it really is. I sent a lot of people there in the DMs. I'm like, hey, listen, Ask Ramsey is going to be way better than me trying to fat finger an answer in the DMs. It's much smarter. So true, I know. So go and ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. All right, let's go to Lynn in Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Lynn. Hello. Thank you for taking my phone call. Yes, my husband and I had been married for over 40 years. We're debt free.

1:48:33Rachel Cruze:My husband still works. I'm not sure when he wants to retire, but And I recently found that he has been taking money out of our CDs. We have a couple of CDs that are the step CDs, and they mature at different times. And he takes the interest and the principal out of those accounts. And I don't know what he's been doing with the money. He's been doing this for over a year. I just found out about it. when I have confronted him. He said he doesn't remember what he's done with the money. I went to the bank and I found out that there's another CD that he opened up. My name is not on it. And I know that there's a large sum of money in that.

1:49:23I feel like I'm I just don't know what to do. This is just totally out of character for him. I just don't know what to do I don't want to open up my own account

1:49:36Rachel Cruze:And throw money in there Because that's what he might be doing And that's not how I roll Sure, sure How much money are we talking? How much is in the new CD? Close to$40 ,000 Okay, and how much is in the CD That you have your name on as well That he's taking money out of? Oh, there's a total Well, between, well, for all of them, probably$150 ,000. Okay. And how much has he taken out of that$150 ,000? Is it$40 ,000 total? No. Well, no. Out of the CDs the past year, he's taken$8 ,500 out. Okay. And I don't know what to do. Yeah. He won't tell me that. I don't think he's telling me the truth. And I don't, you know, the bank won't tell me if he has, you know, secret account somewhere.

1:50:37Rachel Cruze:Yeah, so you're worried. Okay. All you can see is the withdrawals that are on the CDs your name is also on. Yes, because they're part of our trust. Okay. So it comes out to be about$800-ish a month, kind of is what he's been taking out of these CDs. yes okay yeah is he taking cash yes and then the cash is disappearing and we don't know where it's going and when you confront him he says i don't remember yeah he said just stuff and then you found a forty thousand dollar cd cd that you didn't know about and you've confronted him about Yeah, have you asked him about that one? Yes, I did. And he, well, it is, when we set up our trust in January, I asked him in front of the lawyers, you know, do you want to, should we tag some of this money for our grandkids?

1:51:32Rachel Cruze:And he said, no, we'll just, you know, our children can, you know, do that when we're dead. Well, this CD is for our grandkids, which is fine, but he didn't tell me about it. And my name is not on it. And he's been contributing to that. So and when I did ask him about that CD for grandkids, he said, I said, why did you do that? And he said, because I want to make sure that they get some money. So how much you guys have total your net worth? Oh, golly. over probably 1.2. And does that include your home? Yes, it does. Okay. Okay.

1:52:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I mean, I guess my concern would be what you're probably calling in about, because$850 a month at this point, I mean, that's kind of like a, it's not the end of the world. I just don't like that he's not being honest with you, And then there's a count over to the side that he's funding and says it's for the grandkids, which is great. But it's just that you feel out of the loop financially. Do you guys have a history of talking about money? Do you feel like you were on the same page up until this point? Oh, most definitely. I mean, whenever we wanted to get our children some money, you know, I would say, what are you thinking?

1:53:06And he would say an amount. And I said, well, that's about what I was thinking. Like 98 % of the time, we've always been right on. But this is just a stab in the heart. Does he know that you feel betrayed? Yes, and he does not, he has not often an apology.

1:53:34Rachel Cruze:And that's, you know, that's a tilt sign to me as well. Do you feel like you guys have been pretty distant in your marriage in general? Yes. Okay. For how long now? Yes. Quite some time. How old are you guys? he's 70 and I'm 66 okay okay um yeah Lynn I mean I think what you've presented to him is totally fair and that you have a lot of fear is what it sounds like like you're scaring you know that you're he's scaring you because it's out of character it's not how it's always been and I would lean on that less about the amount of money here or there. And it's more about keeping you guys unified, you know, for the next, you know, hopefully, God willing, two decades, right, or more.

1:54:38Rachel Cruze:Right. And so I think that would be my suggestion to you. I don't think you fix this by going and opening up your own account and all of that. But if there is a weird pattern, Lynn, and I hope there's not. I hope he's just a seven-year-old man and he's just, I don't know, his head's in the clouds a little. I don't know. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I also, we've heard crazy stuff, you know, on the other side of the spectrum too on this show. And so I do want to honor your fear and not just brush it off that if there does seem to be something weird going on pattern wise over a period of time that I would, I'd pull, I'd pull in even a third party.

1:55:20Rachel Cruze:I don't know if you'd go to third, you know, counseling at 70 years old, probably not, but that or yeah, I don't know. Figure out. I would keep having this conversation to see how much you can actually extract from this, to see how much you can get to the bottom of it. I mean, if you just said, I need this to stop, I need to see everything, every account, the transactions, the balances, no exceptions. I need you to rebuild the trust that was lost here. And if this is about something else, just tell me. We can be honest with each other. We've been married 40 years. If there's something going on, just give me the respect to tell me.

1:55:53And if he can't even do that, then you need to decide, how are we going to move forward in this marriage? Do you need to go talk to a family law attorney just to know how to protect yourself out of fear? Yes. So that could be a step down the road if he is unwilling to budge. And that's him, That's him opting out. I don't want you to feel like you've done anything to deserve this. But I think you guys have just drifted so far apart that he's just in his own world at this point.

1:56:18Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Are you a big spender, Lynn? Would there be any reason that he hesitates to keep an account because he's scared? You know what I mean? Has there been anything in that end on your side? No. I'm really conservative. Okay. Yeah. And I've had full-time jobs. I was a stay-at-home mom for a long time, and I had jobs, but nothing was good enough as far as income that I brought in. To justify anything else, yeah. Well, I think the rebuilding the trust at this point from an emotional standpoint is going to be huge for you guys. But I'm so sorry. That does feel like whiplash on what direction you thought everything was going, and then you kind of get this bump in the road.

1:57:16Rachel Cruze:Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. And I'm so excited to tell you that the brand new 2027 Ramsey Goal Planner is available now. Guys, this is the only planner with exclusive monthly content from John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, and me to help you set clear goals and actually stick to them all year. But here's the thing. These sell out every single year. So don't wait. Order your new 2027 Ramsey Goal Planner for$49.97 at ramseysolutions.com slash store. That's ramseysolutions.com slash store.

1:58:04Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 14, 23. In all the toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty. Opportunity is missed by most because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison. Just the overalls. I generally avoid overalls. I was going to say, I don't know if George would, I think he may pass on that opportunity. I haven't had a reason to get a pair. That's all. That's all. That's all. All right. Let's go to Andrew in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help? Good, Will. I have a move coming up likely next summer.

1:58:52I'm right outside Charlotte, moving up to the northeast. We own our home. We have about 180 left on it. The question is, do we take the equity of the home when we move, because we don't want to be long-term landlords, and pay off debt, or do we save it for the next house?

1:59:11Rachel Cruze:How much debt do you guys have? A lot. $250-ish. Oh, man. What's that in? Student loans is most of it. So about$130 is my student loans,$120 is my wife's. And then by the time we move, we should have a car payment, card to card, and taxes that are all due. And I expect those will be done in the next nine months. Whoa. So what's the total balance of all this? So the car payment or the car loan is$18 ,000. The credit card is about$55 ,000. And then the taxes is$3 ,000. $55 ,000 in credit cards? No,$5 ,500. Phew. Okay. Yeah. That's better. Okay. So how much equity do you guys have in the home? I'm thinking around$200 ,000 to$250 ,000.

2:00:08Okay. So you could clear most of the debt. We bought right before COVID.

2:00:11Rachel Cruze:What is y 'all's degrees in? Oh, you don't want to know. Yes, we do. What is it? Education. What are you guys doing for work? My wife is an educator. She's in the admin side now. And then I am warehousing. I run a warehouse. What do you guys make? I make about$110 and she makes about$80. Good. Okay. So you'll be making$190 when you make this move? And what's the reason for the move? So a promotion. So I'll be probably making$50 ,000-ish more. Okay, great. She'll go up to$160 ,000 and she'll still make$80 ,000? Will she find a job? Yeah, she'll probably go up to$90 ,000 or$95 ,000. Oh, incredible.

2:00:54Well, that's good. Is what we're seeing comparable roles. So think about this future. You guys sell this home. You take all the equity, dump it onto the debt. Now you're making$250 ,000 and you can knock out the remaining, what,$25 ,000? Yeah, pretty quickly. In a couple of months making that kind of money.

2:01:12Rachel Cruze:And then save up for a down payment from there. Because that's really the order of homeownership is to be debt-free, have a fully funded emergency fund and at least a 5 % down payment. And so you guys really would just be going into that baby step order at this point. Which means a rental for at least maybe two years max. Yeah. So that's kind of what I expected you guys to say. But one of the things I hear Dave kind of reverse engineer this a lot. say, if I wasn't going to move, would I still sell the house and use the equity to pay off debt? I've never heard that exact analogy. We just say selling a house is one thing you can do, but it's usually a last ditch effort.

2:01:55But since you guys are already planning on moving -

2:01:57Rachel Cruze:You're already going to have to move. So the home's going to have to be sold because of the situation. So the question is, what do we do with equity? We should fall to the baby steps. That's right. That's right. Yep. Yeah. I don't know if we would make up that situation of selling a home if you didn't have to, but you guys are forced to anyways. And so at that point, yeah, there's going to be money there. And so if there's any extra money, we say apply it to the baby steps. And so that's what I would say. I mean, even if you called in and you had like a lawsuit or you got money from a relative, right?

2:02:28Rachel Cruze:Like we would say, don't use that to pay off the home. We'd say, use it to pay off your consumer debt. So any amount of money you get in your hands, you apply it to the baby steps. And think about freeing up all those payments. I mean, what are the minimum payments on all of those debts every month? So my wife's student loans are still zero because of her last degree or deferment or whatever. My student loan is$1 ,200. The truck payment's about$5. Credit card's only like$300. And then IRS, I'm paying$500 minimum a month, but I'll pay more. So just a loan, you're going to declare$2 ,500 without her student loan payment, which I'm sure is going to be another, you know, what,$1 ,500?

2:03:10Yeah, I'm sure. So that's$4 ,000 you'll clear. That's now back in your pocket every month for you guys to build wealth that you're not paying interest on.

2:03:18Rachel Cruze:And to throw it at an emergency fund and then finally a down payment. I mean, like that's... Especially with this raise, you're going to be new people. How old are you guys, Andrew? I'm in the 30s. Okay. That's great. You got time to clean this up. And it sounds like a good career move, too, for you all. you know all moving up in income and I think it's just kind of reordering the priorities of where your money should be going what's best where's the best place for it and at this point paying off this consumer debt getting that done with oh it's going to feel so nice I'm looking forward to it yeah for sure yeah and I do think the battle of going from owning to renting can be really hard for people It feels like you're going backwards.

2:04:04You're throwing away money on rent. I'm putting this in giant air quotes because I don't believe that. I rebuke that.

2:04:10Rachel Cruze:I know. And I do, what people don't consider, because we get this call too all the time, is how expensive homeownership is. You know, you are, unless you're living in a condo, I mean, you're in charge of so much, so much that can go wrong. We love homeownership. We want it. But you have to understand what you're walking into from everything from HVAC to roofs to landscaping and fixing stuff when it breaks. I mean, it's just, it is a. There's always something you want to do and need to do. Yes. And when you got$4 ,000 in debt payments on top of no savings, just to say we got in a home, it's not worth it.

2:04:44It's going to get stressful real quick. You'll call the show a year from now going, should we sell the house? We bought too early. This was a mistake. That's right. I don't want that for you.

2:04:52Rachel Cruze:Yep, because we get that. We get that call. All right, let's go to Stephen in Portland. Hi, Stephen. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I want to find out if you had any advice for somebody who's just turned 60 this week. And I'm literally starting over after a divorce and some really, really poor spending choices. My ex-wife, who was a realtor for 25 years, making incredible money. and then also making horrible choices, expensive cars, private schools, only money to the IRS since she was self-employed. I won't go on too long, you know, and I don't want to bore you with all that, but basically from going from a really nice situation.

2:05:47Speak directly on your phone, Stephen, or I have a hard time hearing you. I'm sorry. Can you hear me now? That's a little better, yeah. I have a bad cold, so that could be it. So anyway, I am trying to figure out. I have a$27 ,000 forerunner payment and a$5 ,000 credit card. I used my retirement money to recently get my daughter through school, pay off$25 ,000 to the IRS. That was a debt that wasn't mine. I basically got out of a horrible financial situation that was going downhill quick. How much do you have left from retirement? Not much. $40. What's the car worth? Oh, probably about what I owe on it.

2:06:40Rachel Cruze:And how much do you make a year? So I quit my job to go to a little less stressful job. So now I'm only making about$85 a year. Okay. I usually grow$75 and take home$55 monthly. Do you have any savings right now? Anything liquid cash? I don't. I literally have helped my kids with everything I have. So, Stephen, we got to stop that. Because your children will have to cover you in retirement at this point. Yeah, and that's not going to stop. There's going to be down payments for their first home. There's going to be weddings, all of it. You have to take care of you first. You got to put your oxygen mask on first, even.

2:07:19Rachel Cruze:So you can't afford to be helping anybody but yourself. So you need to take your income. You need to be paying off this debt. You may even want to sell the car and get a beater just to ease up the payment. And then start refunding your retirement. And all of that has to be before you're helping anyone else. But I'm sorry. That sounds like a hard, hard year. Oh, thanks for the call. All right. Thanks, everyone in the booth. George, always a great host, co-host. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.