Solve for Peace Instead of Screwing Around With Debt

22:55Dave Ramsey:What did you pay for the 30-foot sailboat? Well, my neighbor gave it to me, or I should say Jesus gave it to me. Free? to be more accurate. He gave you a 30-foot sailboat free. Jesus did. Yes. We have three sailboats given to us for free. Three. Okay. And you currently own only one. No, we own three. You currently own three sailboats. Jesus loves to sail up in Travis City. And you said you had piled up a substantial... I only found two. Hey, Jim, you said you had piled up a substantial amount of money. What's your all's net worth? Not that much. About$3.7 million. Sarah? Not that much. She said not that much.

23:42That's pretty good, Sarah. Well, I listen to you every day for two hours, and we could do better.

23:51Dave Ramsey:Okay, so what are the three sailboats worth? The cars. Altogether, the cars and the sailboats. No, I ask what the sailboats are worth. The sailboats altogether are worth$7 ,000, and we have a camper worth$500. Okay, so a 30-foot sailboat is worth$2 ,000 of the seven or$3 ,000 of the seven? Jim, does that sound right to you? $5 ,000 of the seven. $5 ,000. Okay, so you've got two junkers and one good one. Okay, so you have a$5 ,000 sailboat, but you want to spend$6 ,000 a year to keep a$5 ,000 thing alive. I'm confused. I am too. No, Jim. Jim, we've already figured out what you want to do, Sarah.

24:39Dave Ramsey:Jim, why do you want to spend$6 ,000 to keep something that's$5 ,000 alive? Well, that's just the normal cost of marinas, marina slates, and then launching and recovery in the spring and fall. Yeah. And, you know, minor incidentals. It's not that much, but I kind of expected that when you said you were spending$6 ,000 on it, that it'd be worth$30 ,000 or something. Well, you know, it's worth what you can get out and on a good day, but, you know, it could easily be worth$20 ,000. No, no, no,$5 ,000,$5 ,000. Wait a minute. There's a bit of a discrepancy here, boys and girls. Yes, sir. Y 'all are fun.

25:20Well, you know, with old sale books, it's what you can get for it.

25:23Dave Ramsey:No, really, Jim. The stinking thing has a market value, seriously. The range of value is not between$5 ,000 and$30 ,000. It's one or the other. You know that. Where did you get that number, Sarah? You sound so sure. The insurance. What? The insurance. Insurance does not determine value. Okay, then I'm wrong. Okay. It is between$5 ,000 and$12 ,000 possibly. If you put a sign on it, you might sell it for$12 ,000. No, you can't sell it. It's so bad. People can't give them away. Well, they did to you. um that's the problem and so far he spent thirty thousand dollars and thirty seven thirty seven and eighty six cents on a boat that people give to you thirty over thirty thousand dollars and uh you've had it five years um about three this is my third summer with it and he spent $30 ,000 and 37.

26:27But we're talking like, I don't know, 500 bucks a month.

26:31Dave Ramsey:There's two issues here, okay? I don't know. Jim, we're not going to make Sarah happy, okay? Sarah's not going to be happy with a sailboat. Sarah's not happy with 3.7? We know that. We know that. Sarah's not going to be happy with a sailboat. So then the question is, Sarah, if you take the value of the – sailboat and what you spend on it and you burn it in the middle of the floor, does it change your life when you have$3.7 million? If you take$6 ,000 and throw it out the window as you drive along the interstate, no, it does not change your life. So this is not a deal breaker. You're not going to be poor and on food stamps because of Jim's sailboat, Sarah, you're fine.

27:18Dave Ramsey:You can afford to do this. It's not a big deal. But Jim, you probably do need to think about, I mean, are you still sitting on the other two boats as well? Yes. I can only count one other sailboat except for a model sailboat in the living room. No, no, no. We have another boat, another boat. Oh, another boat, but not a sailboat. Well, yes, we have another boat. Oh, you mean the rowboat? Yeah. Oh, yes, sir. We have a 12-foot aluminum boat. Yeah, that's true. and a camper. Yeah. Okay. And so, other than mess with Jim, Sarah, what are your hobbies? Well, actually, to be honest with you, I actually like a kitchen sink.

28:03Oh.

28:04Dave Ramsey:Hey, Jim, it's going to cost you a kitchen sink. Jim, remodel the whole freaking kitchen as your trade-out. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You two cheapskates are made for each other. Y 'all are fun. I love y 'all. You're great. Listen,$3.7 million, if it's growing at 10%, is growing at a rate of$370 ,000 a year. And we're having a discussion here about an aluminum 14-foot rowboat and a kitchen sink, y 'all. You need to back up about three notches, pan your camera back, and start enjoying some of this money. Now, being tight and smart is what got you here, but now you need to enjoy some of it. And Sarah, if$6 ,000 makes Jim happy, it's$6 ,000.

28:57Dave Ramsey:You can afford it. Okay? And Jim, if getting rid of the aluminum rowboat and the camper and the odd sailboat makes her happy, get rid of them and remodel her kitchen too. You guys can afford to do all of that. But don't major in minors. It's stealing your piece. Okay? Well, when she says remodel, we have a three-year-old home. I don't care. Okay, all I'm saying is... Buy her a sink. All I'm saying is she wants me to tear that out and go down and get her a commercial sink like you find in the kitchen at McDonald's. And I don't want you to do it. I want you to pay somebody to do it. Well, we have...

29:39They're high-grade steel. They're high-grade steel.

29:42Dave Ramsey:Yeah, kind of like an aluminum boat. It's high grade. Use the aluminum from the aluminum boat. Make you a sink. We're going to recycle. You kill two birds with one stone. Hey, guys. Listen, you're stepping over dollars. You're stepping over dollars trying to pick up nickels. And it's stealing your fun. It's stealing your fun. So there's stuff that my wife buys that I do not understand, but she gets joy from it. And what I do get joy from is her getting joy. There's stuff that I buy that she has absolutely, she thinks it's stupid when I buy it. But she doesn't hassle me about it because we have the money and I get joy from it.

30:25Dave Ramsey:And she wants to see me get joy. So let's major in you guys giving each other some joy starting going forward here. Okay. You knew it's a funny call. We've been married 40 years. And she's like, 41. 41. We haven't got any money. We're broke. It's only 3.7 million. We didn't do good. We didn't do good. They were funny. Y 'all are great. That was so fun. Oh, my gosh. Hey, give each other some grace and love and to the tune of about$30 ,000 each and just go blow some money on your 41-year marriage. What a wonderful thing to do. You won't even know it happened. You'll still have$3.7 million.

31:28This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, listen. These days, it feels like there is so much advice related to mental health and wellness and what you should be eating and what you should be doing. It is insanity. There's so much noise, noise, noise everywhere, especially when we're scrolling. And all this noise on the internet and on social media can lead to information overload. So it can be a struggle to know what's real and what are some things you should actually try in your home. Here's the truth. Using trusted resources and talking to a live therapist can help you break through all this noise and get you to where you want to be in your personal life, in your relationships, and your mental and emotional health.

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32:50That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey.

33:06Dave Ramsey:That was the most fun I've had in a while. What, that call? Those two were a hoot. They were funny. If y 'all want to call up and argue on the air in front of millions of people, we would have you anytime. Yeah, we had a segment for a little while with a person on it. It's called Settle the Debate. Oh, yeah. And people would call in. Yeah, but they were very entertaining. They were fun. God, man. I mean, just going to dinner with those two would be a hoot. Arguing about what you're ordering. It's like, that's too expensive. It's too expensive. Don't get the cheaper chicken. Don't do that. I love it.

33:38Dave Ramsey:Jenna is in San Antonio. Hi, Jenna. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I was calling because I'm looking for some guidance. It's a little backstory. My dad sold me and my older brother our childhood home back in 2021, and the stipulation was that he could still live on the property and not have to pay rent or utilities. My older brother and I rent out the house, and we make about$3 ,400 a month in profit off the rent. And my dad right now, he's a single parent growing up and everything, so he didn't save for retirement. He lives off Social Security and says money is tight right now.

34:18And he reached out to us and asked if we could give him$400 from the profit of their rent each month. And my older brother was like, sure, 100%. And I just did not feel good about it. I was like, I think we need to look at your finances first, like figure out why money is tight and then like draw some boundaries so it's not like every year like oh i need 500 600 and it add up and everything and i recognize like none of this money is coming out of my own pocket it's like purely just profit and i don't know if i sound like a brat as a child

34:46Dave Ramsey:by not just giving it to him and so i'm just looking for guidance on that he sold you the house yeah so we did a so he told it to or we did a parent to child transfer and all he wanted was $50 ,000, and then we took over the rest of the mortgage. But, like, me and my brother are on title and loan. Like, it's legally our house. Yeah, and so at the time that the mortgage plus$50 ,000 at the time this happened was how much?

35:20$450 ,000.

35:21Dave Ramsey:So you had a mortgage of$400 ,000, and you gave him$50 ,000 cash? Well, we did a cash out refinance, and we gave him$50 ,000 from that. Oh, okay. And so the two of you have a$450 ,000 mortgage now. And at the time that he sold you the house for$450 ,000, what was the home worth? Like 1.3. Okay. Okay. So, and now he doesn't have any money. He says, yeah, money's tight. But I mean, he doesn't have any money. He had 50 ,000 and that was many years ago and he's gone through that and he lives on the property

36:09Dave Ramsey:humbly after he gave you a half a million dollars. He's not very wise. He shouldn't have given you that money. He shouldn't have given you this house. I know. I mean, his first obligation is to pay his own bills. his second obligation, or his second, only after you're paying your bills and have a plan for your bills do you start giving stuff away. Yes, I think he had that plan. I think things, I'm not sure, that's why I wanted to look at his finances, but I look at it because the house is worth a lot of money, and then I feel like, I don't know. It was worth a lot of money when he gave it to you.

36:49Mm-hmm.

36:50Dave Ramsey:He gave you a million-dollar house for half a million. Yes. Yeah. And yet he ran out of money. So the whole thing, he's a single dad, he hasn't saved for retirement. It's bull crap. Because he would have had a half a million dollars in the account living off of that and not been calling you if he had just simply sold this house. Correct. And he's told us that he regrets it. Yeah. I didn't say it's 2020, but. That's dumb. Yeah. And so I assume he has absolutely no other money that you know of. It's not like he's got a million dollars in the bank from something else. No, I think he has some things.

37:35I don't know because I haven't looked at his finances. And so I was like, hey, if we give you this$400 a month, let's sit down and look at your finances, see where money is going. How old is he? You don't have a car. He's 73.

37:47Dave Ramsey:And how is his health? Great. He looks like he's 55. guys. And he's retired, not working, Jenna? Correct. Yeah. You don't have an obligation at all, morally, ethically, spiritually, anything. But if someone had given me a half a million dollar gift and in return they're asking for$200, because$400,$200 of it's yours, $200 of it's your brothers. I wouldn't think anything about giving him$200.

38:29So you wouldn't do it?

38:31Dave Ramsey:I would do it. Oh, okay. I don't think it would be a problem at all. I mean, he gave you a half a million dollars. He stupidly gave you a half a million dollars that he shouldn't have done. Then he wouldn't be having this trouble. Yes. So I don't know what was going on in your life. I'm curious, Jenna, why$400 for him? To your point, wanting just to look. I'm just curious if$400, you know, does that change? He's probably living on Social Security, living in the shed out back. That's what it sounds like. Right? Yeah, I'm not sure. That's why I was like, I didn't know if I was in the right to ask him.

39:11Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, not to ask him to justify you doing this, but just to make sure he's okay. He might need 800.

39:24I'm just worried. My biggest worry is that he is going to give it to my little brother because my little brother just doesn't do anything. Okay, that's a fair question. That's where I want that.

39:36Dave Ramsey:That's new information that you never brought up until now. Sorry. That's okay. So I think you can address that with your dad. Dad, I want to make sure you're okay. I'm happy to do this. But I'm not happy to give my little brother money because he sits on his butt. And if you're going to give it to him, no, I'm not going to do it. And if you'll let me look at your stuff with you and make sure you're okay, I want to make sure you're okay. You gave us this wonderful gift all these years ago. And little brother got cut out of that gift, by the way, didn't he? On paper, yes. But my dad is now coming back and saying that, hey, you need to split the house three ways.

40:17No.

40:19Dave Ramsey:No. I was like, he wasn't financially responsible at the time of the sale, so that's why he wasn't included. Yeah. No, we're not redoing the deal. I've been dealing with this house, and now I'm dealing with you. No. The deal's done. But, again, you see how haphazard this whole thing was. When y 'all did this deal, it shouldn't have happened. It was a bad deal for your dad, and he didn't think it through well. and now he's trying to come back and slide the brother in, and now he's trying to come back and slide$400 out because he should have never done this in the first place. He didn't have the half a million dollars to give away.

41:03Dave Ramsey:He was too broke to be giving away half a million dollar gifts. Okay? And so, yeah, I would be concerned that he's okay because his judgment's bad. We've established that. I want to make sure he's okay. I want a loving act. to, yeah, I'm happy to do this to help you, Dad. And I'm not going to put the little brother on the deed, period. That's done. And the money's not going to the little brother. But if all is said, and he says, no, it's not, this is for me. I'll take care of him. I mean, if he gave you a half million dollars, you give him$200. Zippy. It doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, I would do that.

41:38Dave Ramsey:Definitely do that. But step back two notches, and y 'all, as a family, learn your lessons from all the ridiculous things that have been done wrong in this whole thing. So, and now I'm really worried about you and your older brother being partners in this thing. And now little brother decides he's going to go into orbit about this. Yeah, this is not clear. It's not good. So, bad deal all the way around. Bad deal. Man, so. But Jenna, I don't think you're being a brat for having these questions. You asked that at the beginning. And I think you're having some like critical thinking. Yeah, you've got some concerns that are valid.

42:20Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And I would look into those concerns, but I want to do it through the lens of love. I love my dad and he was generous to me and I want to make sure he's okay. Not of, oh, I'm not going to give him 200 bucks. That is bratty if you don't do that. But, you know, if he's going to give it to the little brother and the little brother's buying weed with it, no, we're not doing that. I'm with you on that.

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44:16Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter, best-selling author, is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Emily is in Maryland. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. So my question, so a little background about me. My husband and I are both accountants. we make about 10k take home pay right now after we put in about 10 % of our earnings into 401k and you know insurance and everything and how much is the 401k in the insurance a month um I don't know exactly but for me for my husband I don't know but For me, I take home about$48 ,000,$45 ,000. Yeah, but your take-home pay, real take-home pay, as you know, is not after insurance and 401K.

45:15Dave Ramsey:Real take-home pay is after taxes. Right, so this is after taxes. It's after taxes and after 401K and after health insurance. Yes. Yeah, so what I'm trying to ascertain is what your real take-home pay is. Okay, go ahead. Right, yeah, this is the paycheck that we get. Um, so the dilemma we have right now is that we have, we are living in our house right now, which we bought about 10 years ago for closed property. You needed a lot of work done, um, but we bought it cause it was cheap. And over the years we have, but so I've always tried to live below our means and we have no debt. We have savings.

45:54We have an emergency fund. So we're kind of on the step where now it was time to pay off our home. But recently, I was working at a school where my kids were going for free. It was a private school, but both my kids have learning issues. And so we had to take them out of that private school. And now they're in the public school in our local neighborhood, which are not that great. The dilemma we have right now is that we want to move to a better school district. but obviously the house prices, everything that we're looking at, is really going to put us in a position where we're going to end up living paycheck to paycheck.

46:36And so we don't know whether we should make that move or not because our house is more than enough for us. We're living comfortably in it. It's only the schools that we're not happy with.

46:49Dave Ramsey:yeah well i mean i don't know the math yet but if your statement is true that you're going to be broke because you made the move and paycheck to paycheck with no margin that obviously means you can't afford it if that statement's true so but you might be an accountant who's super tight so I don't know. It sounds like that your after-tax take-home pay would probably be around$12 ,000 or a little bit more per month, not counting in 401K. If you added 401K and health insurance back in, I think that's going to add a couple thousand dollars a month to your take-home pay. Does that sound right? Yeah, I think we'd be around$11 ,000.

47:39I think you'd be around$12 ,000.

47:41Dave Ramsey:I don't think you're doing all that for$500 a month. What's your household income? Well, no, I know you're not. You told me your household income. Okay, so no, that's not$500. So unless you're not putting much in your 401K. I know that I put about 12 % and my husband puts about 10%. So I don't really know what that comes out to be. I haven't looked at it in a while because... Well, the average would be 11 % between the two, but let's just call it 10%, and you make$100 ,000 a year, that's$10 ,000 a month or$10 ,000,$11 ,000. So 401K alone is$1 ,000 a month, plus health insurance is going to be another$1 ,000 a month.

48:21Dave Ramsey:So, yeah, I'm right. It's$12 ,000. Something like that. Yeah, I guess. I guess. But what we get in hand right now is about$10 ,000. I know. Okay. Right, but what I'm trying to say is that if the mortgage comes out to be like between$3 ,500 to$4 ,000, which is what the houses we're looking at right now. If you put that on a 15-year fix, that's going to be about a fourth of your real take-home pay. That's going to,$3 ,000 would be a fourth, would be about your max.

48:56Could you find something for$3 ,000, Emily, in that area? um so we have about 400k equity in our house our house um and what we're looking at is obviously to upgrade i know that that's kind of going above well don't upgrade to go paycheck to paycheck can you getting can you get a smaller house in the nicer area just to get the kids in the school um we can the long term i feel like it wouldn't be a good move because we wouldn't be able to you know, have the same kind of equity in that house or like be able to sell it. Cause we do want to have like just this. So Emily, so this is a, okay. So it's a values conversation at this point, because as you're saying, you're going to live paycheck to paycheck if you make this move, because you're already assuming you're going to upgrade houses to get a bigger house than what you guys are currently used to.

49:45Dave Ramsey:And the reason you're getting a bigger house is not for your kids. Yeah. So there's a value system conversation of do, do I, my value, am I going to do what I have to do for the kids? That's number one. And we'll figure out the math and live somewhere smaller to, Because that's our value. That's our number one value. Or is it we want to have a place where our family can grow in a home and get X, Y, and Z, you know, type of house. And if that's the value, then go there. But one has to trump the other. For the math, you can't do both. And it sounds like the kids are the number one, Emily, right?

50:12And so for now, I would. As a mom with three kids, I get that. Like you want them in a great space where they're going to thrive and it's awesome. And if that means we have to move to a smaller house, we have to move to a smaller house. and then in maybe five or six years we can upgrade, right? I mean, your income's going to go up over time, but if you need to make the move, it sounds like you can't do both.

50:31Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Don't strap yourself to buy a bigger house that you want and blame it on the kids. That's not fair. Yeah. So if you want to buy a house for the kids, move over in the school district. And it's going to be a nicer area, so it's going to be a smaller home, right? And it's going to go up in value. Yeah. So the equity stuff, I don't worry about that. You're not going to lose equity. you're going to increase your equity because you're in a better area. Yeah, maybe an older, smaller home, but it's in a better area for the kids, and that's great. And we did this for the kiddos, and that's the situation.

51:02Dave Ramsey:But the formula that we use, the reason I was poking around on your take-home pay so hard is a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed is what we suggest because that gives you room where you are not living paycheck to paycheck. You've got margin in there to save for Christmas, save for the next car, save for a trip. You've got margin in there, and you can start putting 15 % of your income into retirement at that point. But if you go over 25 % of your real take-home pay and you're calling take-home pay, I'm talking about when I say take-home pay, we're talking about only taxes coming out.

51:44Dave Ramsey:and you've got at least$2 ,000 in non-tax things coming out of your checks. So you're dealing with about a$12 ,000 take-home pay the way we're defining it after taxes, maybe a little bit more, which would mean one-fourth of that, which is$3 ,000. And that's what we would recommend on a 15-year fixed rate. And 15-year fixed rates just went down a tiny bit this week, just a little bit, not much, but just a little bit. So that's how we get at it. But the thing you've got to do, Rachel's right, is you have to separate these discussions and keep it very clear what the primary goal is. What's the primary value we're trying to solve for?

53:03Dave Ramsey:If you want to win with money, you've got to make good choices, and that includes where you shop for groceries, which is why I'm excited about Aldi. You'll find everything you need at Aldi, from the same high-quality meat and seafood you find behind the butcher counter to fresh, organic fruits and vegetables delivered to stores daily. Aldi proves low prices don't mean low quality. No gimmicks, no membership fees, just real savings. Listen, a family of four can save nearly$4 ,000 a year shopping at Aldi. That's real money back in your pocket. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi for the lowest prices of any national grocery chain.

53:48Dave Ramsey:Find a store near you today at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

54:19Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day is sponsored by Y-Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life happened. Y-Refi won't shame you. They'll help you explore a real plan to get back on track. Head to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey, and you can find out more. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. not in all states. Today's question comes from Ashley in Colorado. We are the parents of three young kids and have a YouTube channel, which has been monetized for just over a year. Right now, the funds are sitting in the bank in our names. We'd like to know how to grow that money wisely, but also keep some liquid.

54:57Our plan is not to give them any access to it until each of them reaches the age of 25. We are longtime listeners and really value your guidance. Should we leave it all in the bank or invest some of it or all of it this is the uh we've had this kind of question i've had it three or four times in the last few months about monetizing on the internet

55:22Dave Ramsey:accounts and stuff it's like really well we don't know what it is you can monetize on youtube and it's a small amount of money or it could be a million dollars and so i don't know what we're dealing with here. So the best antidote to money screwing up your kids is for you to not have screwed up your kids. Money does not screw up kids. Money reveals that your kids are already screwed up. And so you can't put it in a, you can't keep it away from them long enough for them to not be screwed up. 25 is not a magic number. And so I'm going to teach them responsibility, generosity. I'm going to teach them wise spending.

56:09Dave Ramsey:I'm going to teach them saving. I'm going to teach them work ethic, age appropriately. We don't know how old the children are. She says young kids. I don't know what that means. And so but age appropriately so that when this money does come to their hands, they see it as what it is, a responsibility, not that they are a four-year-old who hit the lottery. And you turn them into a trust fund baby of some kind. So having said all of that, I'm going to be really, really, I'm going to spend 90 % of my calorie burn on this, on making sure the kids are okay, first and foremost. Then we can talk about the technicality of the investment.

56:50Dave Ramsey:Okay. The only way you keep it away from them until age 25 is if you put it in a trust. If it's in anything else, it goes to them at age 21 and you can't stop it unless it's in a trust. So you're going to have to go see an estate planning attorney. It sounds like it sounds like the funds are in our names, which makes me sound like the parents' names. Yeah. Well, it has to be in your name because the kid can't, you can't put a, a child can't do a contract. And so you, if you open a bank account for a kid, it's an UTMA, Uniform Transfer to Minors Act. And that means it's in the parent's name or it's in the kid's name but the parent is the custodian yeah but i don't know if the kids are getting paid for the youtube channel do you know i mean it could just be the parents getting paid i don't know okay that that could oh that could be that would solve it that would solve you give it to them whenever you want it it's your money yeah if it's your money legally if it's not their money uh legally uh or morally for that matter so anyway what would i do with it uh i would make sure that some of it was available for their first car and that they add some to that.

57:51Dave Ramsey:And so that's the part that's liquid. I would make sure there's some money available for fun, a small amount of some kind. And, again, we don't know how old these kids are and how this is going to unfold, but this is what we did with Rachel and Denise and Daniel. And then the rest of it, I'm probably going to sit down with SmartVestor Pro and get some money going into mutual funds. But again, if you're talking about$15 ,000 or$20 ,000 here, it's irrelevant. You're spending way too much effort to worry about it. If you're talking about$1 million or$750 ,000 or something like that, then it becomes relevant.

58:28Dave Ramsey:And YouTube channels can monetize at all kinds of levels. We have a YouTube channel. We know. And so I know exactly what we make on our YouTube channel, on the monetization portion of it anyway. But so, you know, I remember the first time I met someone. You remember Shea Carl? Yeah, that's the first guy I ever met who had monetized a million dollars on YouTube. And that was Twitter was new. That's how long ago that was. So a long time ago. And they had a family channel at the time. The kids and the family were all on there in their YouTube channel that blew up. and um but i and when i found out he was making a million dollars on youtube i about passed out because i as far as i knew it was cat chasing lasers everywhere but um anyway so it could be and i'm gonna say this and i don't know it so i even hate to like say it out loud but there i think there are some laws in some states happening for child creators that they have to be paid because a lot of these families are doing family things and the kids are part of the monetization stuff so make like that whole dugger yeah yeah i don't know how much of how big of a deal you guys are on it but that's starting to become um i'm fine with them giving them the money at some point i just want to make sure that and that the kid is able to carry yes totally obviously if you raise a kid and they're a heroin addict and you give them a million dollars you're going to kill them because they're going to overdose and so they're going to go buy a lot of heroin and so you got to you know you have to build the character into the individual that's the best way to leave an inheritance and to handle something like this where the kid becomes so the problem like in the old days we would it wouldn't have been youtube it would have been a hollywood child star right you know that made all this money and then what happens uh you know the parents abscond with the money immorally and um or the child is just so dysfunctional because of the way they're treated that's right in the spotlight that they're not capable of handling the money when they become an adult right and so that's what we got to guard against are those kinds of things yeah i don't sense anything in here about actually taking possession no i don't think she's trying to figure out how to bless her yeah yeah absolutely for sure there's nothing in this that even between the lines of the way the words are formed no it just made me think family youtube channel like oh i just read an article recently talking about child monetization and how children now are going And, you know, anyways, that's it.

1:00:56Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, the Duggars, that whole thing on that. And, you know, they were the parents kept all the money and the kids resent that. And that came out in not only the documentary, but we've met some of them and they're not happy about it. So that's the kind of thing. So that's very real. If your kids are a prop in your reality show, you know, that's a thing. So anyway, the. Character, the kid, number one. And then number two. Yeah. figuring out teach them and you know guys the the book that rachel and i wrote is rachel's first bestseller and she and i did it together first number one and it was smart money smart kids teaching your kids how to handle money because and the beautiful thing about using it is it's not really about the money it's about you're teaching you're using money as a a methodology to teach character to teach generosity to living with an open hand that other people are important.

1:01:52Dave Ramsey:The access to the world doesn't run through the top of your little head. And so, you know, to teach work ethic. And, yeah, you will brush your teeth so you have some later. You will do this chore, and not just because you're going to get paid, but just because I said so, because you're going to leave my home knowing how to work. That way you stay gone when you leave. And so, you know, that kind of thing is loving your kids well And it goes back to what Andy Andrews used to say And it's one of my favorite Andy Andrews quotes I'm not trying to raise great kids I'm trying to raise kids that become great adults And it's a different skill set We're trying to raise kids Not kids that look like little Stepford children And they are weird Because they act like they're 32 years old and they're four I don't need that I want a four-year-old to act like they're four 24, but, but I do want to raise them in such a way that when they are 24, they're a person of substance, a person of poise, a person of integrity, a person who knows how to work and how to save and how to give.

1:03:01Dave Ramsey:And if you do all of that, then some of this other stuff is not going to matter. Yeah. It'll work itself out. It will work. You can't mess it up then. Yep. Yep. You can leave them a million dollars at 18. You can leave them a million dollars at 25. You could dole it out gradually. You could put it in a trust. You could not put it in a trust. You could do all kinds of stuff. And so, but yeah, as far as the investment part of it, if it is a substantial sum, I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro. Click at RamseySolutions.com. Click on SmartVestor. You'll find the people in your area that we have vetted and that we love and that have the heart of a teacher.

1:03:35Dave Ramsey:And they're going to give you advice that sounds ridiculously Ramsey.

1:03:45Thank you.

1:04:20Dave Ramsey:Sarah is in Ohio. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering if you guys had another suggestion to help me clear my credit report of a credit card that was opened by my husband before he decided to take his own life. I'm so sorry. Last summer and into the fall, he started to accrue a lot of credit card debt. unbeknownst to me. I did not know about any of this until about a week before he passed away. And then after his death, I found out about the credit card that he had opened in my name only and charged roughly close to$12 ,000 worth of stuff to it.

1:05:13When I received the first invoice in the mail, I reported it as fraud because I didn't know. And through their investigation is how I found out that he opened it in my name.

1:05:23Dave Ramsey:Still fraud. And it's because, yes, because he made two payments to the credit card out of our joint checking account, and because it has my name on it, they denied it as fraud. And that's right. They lose. They lose. No, it is fraud. Period. I went a step further asking for the application and things like that and the transactions. Yeah. They provided those to me. Which company is this? Chase. Ah, big figures. Okay. Yeah, they're scum. They're scum. Lastly, I filed a police report. Yes. Because he used his phone number, his email, and his mother's maiden name on that application because he did not know mine.

1:06:07Dave Ramsey:Right. So I've been denied twice, and the police report is the last thing I just sent in last week. Like, after this, I really don't know what else to do to get this off of my credit report. Okay. I got you. We can handle it. I'm sorry. Oh, my gosh. So, was he, you said he committed suicide in December? Yeah. How long were you all married, hon? Just two years. Oh, wow. Been a long two years, hasn't it? Yes, it was. So he was struggling with, it sounds like he was struggling with some mental illness, obviously, of some kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm gathering after the fact as well. Was he being treated for any of it that you know of?

1:06:55No, he was not.

1:06:57Dave Ramsey:Okay. So we don't have any. His father also committed suicide. Wow. So I think this is a long history within his family. Oh, my. Sarah, I'm so sorry. Wow. All right. I'm currently raising his daughter, and she wants to stay with me. She does not want to go home with her mom. And the court system is allowing that. I have not yet to open the estate. And I know that's going to be an even bigger thing to tackle. To be honest with you, I've had, I've called multiple people and I have not even received a call back of some local lawyers to help me tackle that. I was waiting past the six months so that all that credit card, those creditors would go away.

1:07:40Dave Ramsey:No, that doesn't work. They still can file a claim against the estate because you've not handled the estate yet. And so what is the rest of the situation? My home is in my name, but we purchased another home while we were married and actually in the same neighborhood. And we were going to do an Airbnb with it. And we did do that for a short amount of time, and we currently have a renter in it now. The home is in his name financially. It is deeded to a business name that he started up last fall. That's the estate, essentially. What's that home worth?

1:08:28Online, it states roughly$450.

1:08:32Dave Ramsey:And what is owed on it? $320. Okay. So just for cleanliness sake and to help you, we can help you with the first thing to start with. I'll come back to that. But it's not going to help ultimately because it's going to land back on him. So when anyone passes away in any state, what you own as an individual, anything he had any ownership in, any assets, stands good for any debts that he is responsible for. Okay. And so the equity in that house is going to stand good for the debts that he has run up. Okay. Okay. And that includes the debt that after we fix this identity theft and it's off of your name and it goes back on his name, this$12 ,000 with Chase is going to get paid out of the equity of that house.

1:09:30Okay.

1:09:31Dave Ramsey:Even though you are not personally liable. So all we're doing is moving the shell, the P, under a different shell, okay? Okay. But so it's not going away is my point, because he's got$100 ,000 in equity over there. And how much debt did he have? From what I could tell, on credit card debt, he was pushing$100 ,000. One of his cars was taken back. Like the bank came and got it. Mm-hmm. Did he own anything else jointly with you or at all, any other assets, bank accounts, investments, anything? There were some bank accounts, yeah, our joint checking and savings. Yeah. But there's not a lot of money in there at all.

1:10:21Mm-hmm. And we did own a truck together, a 2025 GMC truck. Mm-hmm. I was able to get that title put in my name by providing the death certificate, and then I was able to sell that back to the dealership. But I took a$17 ,000 hit on that. But I had to get it out of my name because I couldn't afford the payment on it.

1:10:44Dave Ramsey:I understand. So I had to dump that quickly. My credit score last year was an 842 before all of this happened, and it's a 620 today. Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. We don't need a credit score. All we need is a life. Yep. I agree. And I have my home and my car is paid for, so I don't need my credit, but it's definitely hard to look at. So it sounds like when you liquidate anything that's got his name on it, it might come close to covering the debts that had his name on it. But you're not going to benefit anything. You're not going to have any net of anything. It doesn't sound like what you're describing.

1:11:18Dave Ramsey:Right. But you need to do it anyway, because otherwise they're going to come after the stuff that has both your names on it. So you've got to get the estate cleaned up or those bank accounts and checking accounts that had both names on them. And they may come back after that truck transaction because that was technically his. Okay. Even though you didn't benefit, you lost money. But that had your name on it too, right? Yes, financially, yeah. I was the main buyer. He was the co-buyer. Yeah. So, you know, they won't come back after you because you lost money or you didn't make money. But your bank accounts and that title to that house over there, they're going to eventually come after all that.

1:11:59Dave Ramsey:And you're better off to be proactive to get a probate attorney. And you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to work this through to get that all done. Now, back to your other thing. We've endorsed a company called Zander Insurance for identity theft protection for, I don't know, 20 years. Since before identity theft was even a thing. And now it's definitely a thing. And when someone has their identity theft and something occur, their identity is stolen. The unique thing about this protection is, is they assign a counselor to you, a coach to you that goes and cleans it up for you. OK, you did not have that protection when this happened, but.

1:12:47Dave Ramsey:You know, someone who can get it done for you, and that's Rachel. I'm kidding. All right. So we're going to put you on hold, and Kelly's going to connect you with Xander. And occasionally as a favor for someone in a specially hard situation, they will take something even and run it through the system and take care of it for you, even though you did not have the coverage at the time, okay? Okay. Can't really buy home insurance after the fire, okay? Right. But we're going to do that anyway. And so we'll take care of that. and they'll take this case and run it down just because I don't like Chase, and that'll help.

1:13:26Dave Ramsey:But the point is, I want you to clearly understand, we're really not getting rid of it. We're just putting it over into his estate, so it's going to come up again when you clean up his estate. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it. All right. You hang on, and Kelly's going to pick up, and we'll try to help you get through this, kiddo. Hey, Kelly, I also set her up with a Ramsey coach as our gift. she's a widow we're gonna take care of her okay

1:14:23Dave Ramsey:Well, buying real estate, selling real estate, trying to get a new place, a lot of drama out there right now. And when there's drama, there's one thing you need to depend on, and that's facts. And facts are generally not your hyped up friend who has an opinion about socialism. No, let's just find out what was really going on, what's really happening, what the real prices are, what the real interest rates are, and let's try to get those straight up. If you want to know what that is, just go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on YouTube.

1:15:03Dave Ramsey:Dallas is in Louisville. Hey, Dallas, what's up? Hey, guys. Davis, Davis, I'm sorry. Hey, Davis, I'm sorry. Okay. Not a problem, buddy. um starting off with my question quickly here um i'm a divorced dad of two just got through the divorce um i'm just trying to figure out what kind of route i should take to build my retirement and future for my two children um apparently have zero in retirement wow hard times i'm sorry um yeah okay what do you make um i've been a stay-at-home dad for the last four and a half years as my wife ran a successful business i just got back in the workforce in june doing self-employment remodeling that I did before I was retired.

1:15:47I make recurrently about$4 ,000 to$5 ,000 a month. Before I was retired, I was making about$80 ,000 a year.

1:15:53Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you're going to be able to get it back up to$100 ,000 now. Exactly. All right, and so you're making$100 ,000 a year. You're 38 years old. How much debt do you have? Zero consumer debt. My truck's paid off. I am only purchasing a house, which I just did for me and my two kids, and I'll have about$40 ,000 left in my bank after I put a$280 down payment down on my new house. Way to go. Nice. Okay. Thanks. And so the finances and the divorce were in pretty good shape. Yeah, we were fine. We came to an agreement. We kept it admissible as we could, obviously mostly for the children, and we were settled on that and signed, and now it's just me moving forward.

1:16:34Yeah, but I mean, before the divorce, you all weren't broke is what I'm saying.

1:16:37Dave Ramsey:That's good. No, no, no. No, my wife made a salary of about$25 per month. Yeah. Okay. Cool. All right. So you got a good head start here. You got a house. You got a good income. Yeah. You know, make sure you got the emergency fund in place. You don't have any debt. So that takes you right to baby step four, which is 15 % of your income going into retirement. And that'd be$15 ,000 a year going into 401ks and Roth IRAs. And if you're running your own business, you could call it a simple 401k or simple IRA, which is a 401k for a small business. You can do a lot of stuff, and you could easily get$15 ,000 into good mutual funds a year.

1:17:19Dave Ramsey:And if you do that from 38 to 68, you're going to have millions and millions of dollars. Okay, that works. I do also be getting approximately$80 ,000 in a couple months from my father, and I was just seeing what I should do with that money, I guess throwing it into a Roth or something as well. I'm probably going to pay the house down. I want to get the house paid off while you're putting 15 % of your income away. How much do you owe on the house, Davis? It'll be about$130 ,000. Oh, wow. That's great. And you're getting how much from your dad? About$80 ,000. What's that from? He's got a settlement from his mother in a nursing home that they basically gave the wrong medicine and seemed to have got her.

1:18:02Wow. Oh, my gosh.

1:18:04Dave Ramsey:Okay, so he's distributing it to her grandkids. Yeah, he's distributing it to me. He already gave my sister a front for their property a year or two ago, and he wanted to even us out. Yeah, so that means you only owe$50 ,000 on your house now. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you get that thing paid off, boom. Now you've got a big chunk of change to throw towards investments with no house payment, right? So, yeah, throw the 80 at the house and then knock that other 50 out as quick as you can, too. And let's be clear. And no debt. Stay away from debt. And be investing and be generous. And you're going to be in great shape, man.

1:18:42Dave Ramsey:You're going to do fine. As far as setting all that stuff up with your Roth IRAs and everything, just click on SmartVestorPro at RamseySolutions.com. Yeah, and above that, once the house is paid off, that's the baby step seven where you continue to build wealth and be generous. So you can go above that 15 % at retirement. and max out some of the stuff if you can. I mean, if you can max out your Roth every year and put some money into a 401k or that simple 401k, simple IRA. Yeah, guys, y 'all forget to – sometimes y 'all are listening to us do this and you forget how this math works. So we paid off our house many thousands of years ago, it feels like, and it was$1 ,500 a month, and I was paying about$2 ,500 down on it, and then I got a chunk and I took it out, okay?

1:19:24Dave Ramsey:Okay, so I took the$1 ,500, I rounded up to$2 ,500, and I put$2 ,500 a month automatically coming under my checking account into a mutual fund. And I kept it a separate mutual fund. I just want to see how fast a house payment became a million dollars. It was unbelievable how fast that was a million dollars. It was just a few years I looked up and I went, paying yourself a house payment really is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. and so when you get that house paid off and that's when you turn it around like you're talking about that was that was forever ago that's thousands of years now it's like there were dinosaurs in the backyard yeah yeah yeah so remember that yeah it's more expensive these days so even if your house paid off now think about how much more money well i mean yeah that was only 2500 you know that was a big house for 2500 back then that but that's when you could buy a house for a box of strawberries i know you traded two oranges two oranges and you could get a free house and he did great with your house market.

1:20:21Because you're boomers.

1:20:21Dave Ramsey:You don't know how life really works. You had a great housing market. Oh, jeez. You should have seen the income. It's my poke. You should have seen the income. Rudy's in Chicago. Hey, Rudy, what's up? Hey, Dave and Rachel. Thank you so much for having me on. Sure. How can we help? Well, I just want to say we're huge fans. Started a few months ago. And I also want to mention my seven-year-old, also a huge fan who has memorized the baby steps and we'll recite them to anyone willing to listen. I just wanted to pass that on. Oh, no. Oh, no. Rudy, I don't even know my kids can, so that's impressive.

1:20:59It's pretty funny. But so my question, I guess to begin, so we're basically in full gazelle intensity and on step two, but we plan to be on steps four and five in about six months.

1:21:11Dave Ramsey:Good. And so my questions revolve around my wife, who's a stay-at-home mother. so my questions are once we're done paying off debt should we be investing more than 15 percent of our household income to account for the fact that she's not building her own retirement no she has rights to your retirement gotcha and also so with that do you recommend setting up like a spousal ira is a yeah yeah but not because she needs her own retirement because she's got rights to your retirement. Ask anybody who had a 401k with a half million and got a divorce. Yeah, understood. Yeah, so she's in good shape. She's fine.

1:21:54Dave Ramsey:But, yeah, I've done spousal IRAs every year just because it was a good way to keep the government's hand off of money, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, do Roth IRAs for sure in both your names and as a part of your 15%. But I would max it at 15. Let's get the house paid off and then let's load up like we were just talking about before we picked up this call. Yeah. And you can do backdoor. I can still do a Roth IRA because I can do backdoor Roths regardless of your income. Basically, the right to do a regular Roth IRA goes away when your household income is up over$200K. And so obviously mine is over that.

1:22:36Dave Ramsey:But what you can do is open an after-tax traditional IRA, not a pre-tax, an after-tax traditional IRA, and roll it to a Roth 30 seconds later. And I do that every year for Sharon and me. In the spousal IRA, I don't think many people realize that that's even an option. That's true. There's a stay-at-home parent not making an income. He does not have an earned income. Right. But I have an earned income in excess of both IRA limits. And so I can fund my wife's IRA. Or in the case the wife is the working one, fund the husband's. Either one. It works both ways. But if you're, you know, my wife has not had an earned income.

1:23:22And you don't have to make a certain amount to qualify for the spousal.

1:23:25Dave Ramsey:You don't have to make anything. Yeah. To qualify for the spousal. No, I'm saying the spouse that's working, though. Yes. You have to make more than the two IRAs combined. Of it combined. Than the amount you're putting in. Okay. Which is not, I mean, you've got to make$16 ,000 a year. Right, right. Or whatever it is. But yeah, it's nothing. But you've got to have an earned income in excess of both of them. But that's all. Wow. Wow. Wow.

1:24:12Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here with a big announcement. The Ramsey Show Live is going on tour. This is your chance to no longer just listen on your daily commute, but be in the room where life change happens. We're removing the wall between caller and audience so you can take part in money confessions, hot takes, and more. Plus, you'll hear live callers get answers to their pressing questions. I'll be in Chicago on September 30th alongside George Camel and Ken Coleman. Then George, Jade Warshaw, and Dr. John Deloney will be in Orlando on October 2nd. Tickets start at$39 and are limited to just 300 seats in each city, so don't wait.

1:24:52Especially if you want one of the 50 VIP tickets that includes a meet and greet, the best seats in the house, and more. It'll be a night full of hope, community, and the kind of energy you can only get in person. Get your tickets today at ramsaysolutions.com slash The Ramsey Show Live, or just click the link in the show notes.

1:25:22Dave Ramsey:welcome back to the ramsey show rachel cruz number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five samantha's in north carolina hi samantha how are you i'm good how are you thank you both for having me on sure how can we help. I appreciate it. So I'm 57. I'm a single mom and have been for about 15 years. When I got out of school, my mom and dad didn't have a huge, great financial education. They're both teachers. And I always knew that I would make sure that I kind of did the right things when I got older. So I had jobs from the time I was 14.

1:26:06And when I got through law school, when I was 21 or 22, I started to kind of immediately invest in my 401K and have done that for 20, 30 years. The problem is circumstances happened and became a single mom and ended up with two daughters who basically I ended up putting them through college and part of grad school. and long story short, used up most of my income in my retirement to get them through. Obviously, I realized that wasn't the best call at the time. They're just both amazing kids, incredibly hard workers.

1:26:50Dave Ramsey:How much did you spend on their education, honey? Between college and grad school, and they took out loans in grad school, I probably at least$300 ,000 from my 401K. And then, of course. How much? Throughout about$300 ,000.

1:27:12Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you paid all the taxes and the penalties on all that, obviously. Yeah. And I know. Do you have debt, Samantha, with it now? You said you took out some loans. Yeah, I have about$65 ,000 left to pay off. Obviously, fully aware, this was probably not the best way to approach it at the time. That would be an understatement. No, I know. Yeah. A, they went to a college they couldn't afford. And B, you should have never used your 401k, ever, to syndicate to college. There's not a circumstance on the planet that that makes sense. I know. But you're there now. Okay. All right. So what do you make?

1:27:52Dave Ramsey:You said law school. That's encouraging. What do you make? I now make about$100 ,000 a year. Why? You've been practicing law for years. I have. I kind of took a different path and ended up at a firm where I was able to kind of juggle raising the girls. Okay. But now they're gone, and they have degrees, and they're on their own, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just recently. Yeah. Yeah. Good. But they need, I mean, good financially. It's time for these kids. They kind of got to, it's time for you to quit feeding them for sure. So now can you go make$200? You kind of need to. Yeah. What do you have left, Samantha, in the 401k?

1:28:42Anything? About$80 ,000. So my question that I was trying to get to, and fully aware of all this, no excuse other than the fact that things happen quickly and something their dad kind of dropped out at a time when when you made an emotional decision I understand yeah I did I understand okay so what is your question then my question is I'm 57 trying you know I probably have, what, 10 years to try and make up something. And I recently came across the Ramsey program and took Financial Peace last year. And it's fantastic. Wish I'd taken it 20 years ago, right? But it is what it is. I know better now.

1:29:29Dave Ramsey:Okay, that's good. So my question is, one of your kind of general thoughts is that you shouldn't, until you pay off with the baby steps, that you shouldn't invest it all until you pay off the debt, which I understand. But if my question is, if it takes me like, say, a year to get the debt paid off at this point when I'm this time-wise... Still mathematically, we're not going to make another emotional decision, okay? I know you're scared. I know you're scared. And this thing's, this retirement thing's bearing down on you. And it's causing you to have incredible regrets for the things that have happened in the past.

1:30:08Dave Ramsey:But all of that aside, the fastest way mathematically for you to get a good nest egg is first get rid of the 65 ,000 and make sure you have no debt and you're living on a detailed budget. And anything we can do to increase your income to accelerate both of these things, the debt removal and the rebuilding of the nest egg is absolutely vital. And so if I'm you, It's time for you to go make some money, and you've been putting everybody else first for a very, very long time, and you now have no choice in the matter. You have to put Samantha first. Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And just to clarify, these two girls are not.

1:30:50You know, we're talking incredibly hardworking. I didn't question their character, honey. Yeah. I just questioned where they went to school and where they got the money.

1:31:02Dave Ramsey:But that's all in the past. You know, I'm not going to beat you up anymore. That's not what we're here for. We're here to move into the future. So the future is you go make as much money as you can make. And if you change law firms, you go make$200. I kind of love your girls to step up and take on the$65. Yeah, hello. Yeah, well, I mean, one is. They're so great. No, they're great. They're just one is literally just graduated from Columbia, and she's in a doctorate program, and so she's paying. It's a fully funded program, and she's paying all her bills now. And the other one is actually having to have an interview at NATO.

1:31:39And so they're working incredibly hard. That's awesome. I just think, yeah. No, I hear you, and I don't question that. It just would be nice if they stepped in. They don't have to legally because your name's on the loan.

1:31:49Dave Ramsey:Nor do they have to morally because it wasn't the deal you made. But it would be cool if they go make$300 ,000 a year if they reach over and take care of this loan so their broke mother doesn't have to retire on ALPO. you know they're they're that's that's a non-issue these they're both great kids but they're just literally getting on their feet so you know and that's okay so samantha yeah so between now hey between in the next 10 years though yeah for real working as hard as you can upping the income getting the 65 paid off and then what's your housing situation do you own a home no no okay i did i did in the divorce long story but no that's fine so that would be that How long ago were you divorced?

1:32:31Probably about 15 years.

1:32:34Dave Ramsey:Okay. But there's a whole lot of issues that I wouldn't want to talk about. That's fine. It's all good. I got put in a situation where I did the best I thought for you girls. Yes. Okay. So moving forward, though, again. Yeah. Getting that debt paid off. And then. Yeah. And you got to get a home that you get paid off. A little one-bedroom condo or something. Something. That you get paid for and so forth. So, okay. She loves her kids and single mom, warrior princess, doing the best she could. Oh, yeah. Not to pick on her, okay, but to say if you're out there in that situation, you have to make decisions based on facts, not feelings.

1:33:17Dave Ramsey:And I'm going to take care of my children at any cost is a feeling. Those kids could have gone to state schools, not Columbia. They could have worked while they were in school. They could have gone and got scholarships. They had a mother that was a single mom. And there would have been no debt and no$300 ,000 cash out. Okay? And the kids would have been fine. And still great character. And still great kids. I mean, seriously. Still great kids.

1:34:24Dave Ramsey:We'll be right back. pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:34:48Dave Ramsey:Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you know how? Take a quick quiz for free and check your progress, and we will give you a personalized plan to get you on track. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? And complete the free quiz, and we will give you a personalized plan. Rebecca's in Texas. Hi, Rebecca. Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I am in a pretty interesting situation. and kind of sad as well. Earlier this year, I guess a boyfriend at the time of two years was ready to take the next step, and he wanted to move to my state, and he ended up purchasing a ranch, which is kind of like my dream property, for about a million dollars.

1:35:49paid cash, put me on the deed. And prior to that, I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable doing this unless I am, unless we are married. At that point, he was like, nope, we're going to get married. A venue was booked. A ring was purchased and we move forward. He moves in for about three weeks and then tries to almost trick me into signing the deed of the house into a trust while he's like planning his exit. And he left. So, which whole other set of emotional issues.

1:36:31Dave Ramsey:He paid cash. He did. Of a million dollars for a property. Yep. And put your name on the deed. Yes, sir. And then he took off? Yes, sir. Wild. So I don't understand how he profits from this. It almost sounds like he was trying to scam. Is he just flighty or what? I think he has some, I think he wants, he liked the idea of this. Oh. And I think he got your, broke my heart. I'm left to manage the whole 20 acres on my own and six animals. It's not your house. It's not my house. It's his million dollars, right? Yeah, but I'm on the deed. So technically I am 50 % owner. And my home, I rented it out.

1:37:26And I have tenants in there through the end of May.

1:37:32Dave Ramsey:Oh, my gosh. okay so is he asking for the property back at all like are you guys gonna sell he tried to like i said like when he was planning his exit before i put all the pieces together he said oh someone's gonna contact you you know to put the house in a trust to protect you in case something happens How long has he been going? Six weeks. Okay. All right. Wow. Okay. So I am trying to figure out what my goal should be in this situation. Should I say, okay, let's list the property, but before it's listed, obviously have it worked out. And I mean, my life flipped upside down. Has he been in contact with you since he left?

1:38:29We spoke once, and that's when it was basically like, this is over, we're not doing this. It's so interesting. It's usually him calling us, Rebecca, being like, crap, I bought a ranch with my fiancee who I'm not with anymore. What do I do for my million dollars?

1:38:45Dave Ramsey:Instead, you're sitting there on a half a million dollar windfall because this guy's loopy. Yes. So, do I buy him out? That's a good question. No, I wouldn't buy him out. I take the, you know, I obviously will work with attorneys to have the paperwork drawn up. So the property is listed and there's an offer. We have a plan in place as far as. You do? So at the last minute. Well, we would. That would be my goal if we list it. Would be to have everything written out. There's no question. I think this guy's an absolute. I mean, the story you've told me, he's an absolute crazy man. and weird and everything else.

1:39:24Dave Ramsey:I'm very sad. I'm very sad about this. This has been a lot. I bet he was great, though, Rebecca. And yet, if I'm in your shoes, I don't feel entitled to$500 ,000 of his money. I don't feel that way. I feel like I questioned that. But I quit a job. I uprooted my entire life. And this gesture that he made was to show his level of commitment and his seriousness for the relationship. So what were you making at your job? About 100. Can you go back? I cannot go back there, no. Okay. What were you doing? I work in private aviation on the kind of operation side. Okay. All right. Well, obviously, you're going to have to get a career going forward.

1:40:16Dave Ramsey:I do have a job. I do. I did get another job. Okay. What do you make? What do you make? A hundred. You're making a hundred. Okay. Yes, sir. So other than the time off in between that you did not benefit from, how long were you out of work? A couple months, about three months. Okay. But this current job is not as stable as a company as my previous one, which makes me... So your point is you've been damaged by this fraud, and so financially, and so it it would be ethical to receive something for that. I don't know. I think that's right. I think, you know, it costs you a good job. My home that I had.

1:41:00Dave Ramsey:Well, no, you own the home still. Right. You'll get it back in May, and you will have rented it. You will have made money on it during that time. So I don't mind tagging him for$100 ,000 or something. I just don't know how you've been harmed much more than$100 ,000 And unless you want to just be punitive, which honestly is probably OK. This guy kind of deserves it. But I'm kind of with you. I mean, I'm vacillating while I'm talking to you. You hear me? So I'm not sure. This is weird. And you as you know. So and you're not the weird one. So. Yeah. OK, I don't want to. I want to be made whole financially plus a little if I'm you pass that.

1:41:45Dave Ramsey:This is dirty money for me. Right. I got it. And I don't want to live on this farm, this ranch. Right. That's got bad juju all over it. Mm-hmm. Right? If I'm you, I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes. Yeah. Get me out of there. Yeah. I don't want to walk away with - And legally, you're entitled to half a million. Legally, right? If her name's on the deed. There's nothing this twerp can do about it. He stepped in it. But the question is, what do you feel right about, right, from just like a moral perspective? And that's the being made whole plus a little bit more of what you're saying. I would – do you have an ability to contact him?

1:42:23Dave Ramsey:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would have your attorney contact him and say, I will sign a deed to you for$200 ,000 or whatever the number is. And then I would go get an apartment and sell off the animals and get out of this – get away from this whole thing. Mm-hmm. And then go back to your house in May when the tenants move out. Yeah, I would just get away from the whole thing. Anything that keeps me in this story is disturbing. I want to get out of this story. It's a bad story. Emotionally, that's probably the best movie. No, I mean, just generally. I think it's probably financially. Because you're distracted by evil stuff.

1:43:04Did y 'all date long-term, Rebecca, for two years? For two years, long-term?

1:43:10Dave Ramsey:Long distance? But it was a bit of a roller coaster, long distance. And this was like the, okay, he wants to commit. He wants to take the next step. He's ready to move forward. There's almost a level of like mourning this life that kind of whipped up really quickly for you. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I know you guys were in a relationship for two years, but him moving, buying a ranch, you moved, you quit your job. I mean, you had a whirlwind within 90 days of this life that was ahead of you. And then it's gone as quickly as it came is what it feels like. So there's, yeah, some whiplash for sure.

1:43:43Dave Ramsey:There's a whiplash penalty I'm willing that he should pay. I'm fine with that. And anything that he actually costs you, which is probably$100 ,000, give or take, and then a whiplash penalty or whatever you want to put on it. And I'll sign the deed for that. It sounds like he's got money. He's got a couple mil. Yeah, so he could write you a$200 ,000 check or whatever the number is you've got in mind. And you just sign the deed and we're done. get the animals sold off so they're not hurt because he's not going to come back and feed them. You got to make sure they're gone, right? And so, and I would put this whole thing way in the rearview mirror.

1:44:19Dave Ramsey:If you were my daughter, that's what I'd tell you to do. Oh, it sucks. Sorry, Rebecca. Yeah, it's awful.

1:44:46Dave Ramsey:We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You've got to have a plan. You've got to be intentional, and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

1:45:18Dave Ramsey:Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

1:45:40Dave Ramsey:August is National Make-A-Will Month, like we needed a month to do that. But there you go. Why do people not make a will? Well, number one reason is procrastination. 43 % of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it. Perfectionism is number two. Writing a will involves big decisions and dealing with your family. That's not perfectionism. That's avoidance.

1:46:08I don't want to deal with that.

1:46:09Dave Ramsey:I don't want to deal with that. Or her or him. Thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you get a will. No, you don't. You just need to be 18 and care that the government doesn't conduct your affairs for you. Like where your children go if you die. A belief that everything automatically goes to family. It doesn't. It goes to the lawyers. Sons, uncertainty about the process. Many people say they just don't know how or where to start. Wheels can be confusing, but our team is here to help. You can take our Wheels quiz to find out if a simple online wheel is right for you at RamseySolutions.com slash Wheels Quiz.

1:46:46Dave Ramsey:Andrew's in Columbia, Missouri. Hi, Andrew. How are you? Good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? um so i own a pool cleaning uh repair and resurface company here in columbia um i am in a partnership with with another guy um we started the business about three summers ago um i had previous experience with a pool company here one of the bigger ones here and I decided to branch off, you know, do my own thing. Started pretty small, so me and my partner, we started doing, you know, power washing, window washing jobs, pool cleanings. You know, we didn't have too many clients, probably about 10 to 15.

1:47:33You know, fast forward to the second year. Why did you need a partner? At the time, so I had, I, technically I didn't.

1:47:43Dave Ramsey:Okay. And now you've learned that partnerships are the only ship that won't sail? Correct. That's correct. I'm guessing you two guys did not do anything like go to a lawyer and have a partnership agreement drawn up. Initially, no. That happened later on, and it was pretty much too late by the time we did make one. Why was it too late? What's happened? um so basically um we started sub last year we started subcontracting for this this uh the pool resurface company that we actually bought um my partner he was it was owned by one of his uncles his uncles was higher up there uh made good money um anyways last year though i got connected with one of the my old managers that i actually worked with at the old pool store i worked at and i said hey, what do you think about coming over here?

1:48:39I'll pay you decent. And we'll basically start taking a lot of the clients that that pool company that I used to work for has. So I probably took half of their commercial neighborhood pools, plus, I don't know, 10 residential and commercial ones have to be done three times a week. So those come out to 60 visits a week, plus repairs. um anyways when we were when anyways I had that that happened last year as we were doing the pool resurfacing so I got connected with that um at the time that business basically after we got done subcontracting for them they said hey what do you guys think about buying this um you know obviously it was connected with my partner's family so he was all about it he wanted to do it all this and I said, hey, I was like, how about we just buy the equipment and we slowly build?

1:49:36He disagreed with me, and I eventually just gave in because I was like, well, maybe this will work out. So I gave in, and I wasn't nervous about all of this. So anyways, fast forward now to this year, I'm basically running the pool repair and pool cleaning side. And, you know, for example, last month we brought in about$49 ,000 revenue. The coat your pool side, he is supposed to be running, and he's done probably two jobs in the past three months and has brought in, you know, we haven't profited anything from it. Why? Is he not working? He, I confronted him about it. I said, hey, we need to push this harder.

1:50:22We need to do this. and he basically, he has a kid with his girlfriend and he basically, every time I bring it up and say, hey, when you do this, we need to make more money, we're losing money right now, actually. He just says, you wouldn't understand, you don't have a child at home and things just get awkward after that.

1:50:41Dave Ramsey:So what does a partnership say about dissolving a partnership, about dissolving it? You have the agreement, right? Yeah, so our agreement's very vague, unfortunately. Yeah, that's what I figured. All right. So you're screwed. Did you go into debt to buy this crappy business that this crappy guy is running? Yeah, so the business was$260 ,000. Oh, my gosh. They basically said, hey, we won't charge you any interest. Basically, a five-year plan. You'll pay$4 ,000 a month. We'll do all your marketing, get all your jobs the first year. And when I heard that, I was just like, initially, I was like, oh, I don't want to do this.

1:51:23I expressed it to him multiple times. I said, this is dangerous. We're going to. But you did it, Andrew.

1:51:29Dave Ramsey:But you did it. I did it. You're correct. And so you didn't walk away, even though you knew you were supposed to walk away. So the prudence, see danger, and seek refuge. The simple, see danger, move forward and pay a penalty. And I've been simple and move forward and pay a penalty. So how are we going to get out of this? You owe these people$260 ,000. It's his uncle. Will his uncle let you off and just give him that part of the business? You take the other part? So the deal with the business is that we can give the business back at any time, and we can keep the money we made, and that is that.

1:52:03We can just give it back, and there's no more debt. Problem is he doesn't, you know, partner doesn't want to do that, but he's also not working. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:52:14Dave Ramsey:No, I want you to call the people back and say, I'm going to give you my portion back. And then deed your partner's portion to him. Let him have that business, and you go run your other business. Right, right. Yeah. Let him sit over there in his own poop. Yeah. Get away from it, Andrew, if you can. You've got to get out of this. Yeah. Walk away. Yeah. What I do right now, I really enjoy, too. So, you know. You can do the same thing. I'm excited every day. Just take your portion of the business. He signs off and says, this is your portion. You can have the portion that your uncle sold us, and you can have the debt, and you can make all the money in the world.

1:52:58Dave Ramsey:Good luck, and you just turn this over here loose to me, and I'll take this. And we're splitting up. Okay. And if you don't do that, I'm going to hire a lawyer and sue you. Yeah. Because you don't work. How old are you guys, Andrew? 26. I'm 24 and he is 28. Like I've done this before. Okay. Yeah. So rule of thumb is never do a partnership. If you are dumb enough to do a partnership, you have to have thorough partnership agreements that deal with when one of the partners is not performing or doing drugs or dies or gets disabled or gets divorced and you don't want to be in the pool business with his girlfriend okay or whatever so all that man you don't have any of that so you're screwed is where you are but if you can go over and sit down with him and go look i'm so pissed off i can't see this isn't working i want you to take this whole thing and i'll take this whole thing and i'll sign over my part to you and you sign over this part over here to me and if you don't do that i'm going to go get a lawyer and sue you because i'm not going to live like this anymore it's not working for me and you have been too stinking nice to tell people the truth and too nice to stand up for yourself andrew of what you know is right or wrong so right let's uh this is your time where your backbone gets uh installed okay right yeah yeah so i i have actually written you're not gonna do it are you No, I have already something written up.

1:54:36Dave Ramsey:I don't want to write anything up. I'm going to go sit down and have a cup of coffee and go, dude, I'm going to sign over this whole thing over here to you. It's going to be yours. You're going to sign this whole thing over here to me. It's going to be mine. We're not working together anymore. This is how this is ending. I'm done. I didn't want to be in this in the first place. I wish I wasn't. Your tone could be nicer than that. I don't know. But be done. At least in your head have that tone. Be decisive, Andrew. Clear. Clear and decisive. And don't talk about all the stuff in the past and all that.

1:55:05Dave Ramsey:All that matters is you're fired. That's all that matters.

1:55:31Thank you. Thank you.

1:56:01Dave Ramsey:Teddy Roosevelt said complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining. I love it. All right, Matt's in Colorado Springs. Hey, Matt, what's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. How are you today? Great. How can we help? Yes, sir. So I've got a debt collector on my back, and it's for a relatively small amount. And I've heard you talk about debt collectors and their scummy kind of tactics and stuff, and I've never experienced this. So I was hoping you could help me. To make a long story short, my wife and I have been married about a year and a half now. We had about$38 ,000 worth of debt.

1:56:39Nine months ago, we're down to$17 ,000. We're trying to work through babysit, too. She had a credit card, I guess, that before we got together, she had had. And when she was 20, I guess she decided she didn't feel like paying it back. And here it is. And I didn't know it was there. What's the balance? Hanging around. It's only$2 ,300. dollars but the first time we've ever been contacted about it they sent us a manila envelope uh to her old mailing address that had like legal documents like they're going to take us to court over it um oh that's we never got a phone call text message anything if they were going to take

1:57:14Dave Ramsey:you to court they would have done it a long time ago it's been five years so it's been sold to a debt collector obviously so you know i i've called them and i've taken your advice i haven't given them i've given them barely any information about us and i've haggled them and they've told me final offer three times and the best deal they're willing to cut me at this point is six after three hours of haggling with them and 17 different people have them passed to is 1600 bucks now i don't know if it's worth just paying the 1600 but that would be my emergency fund plus we do the og cash folders my wife loves your wallet rachel so we got a wallet full of some grocery money and stuff nice um so that would be all that money i just don't know if it's worth haggling them some more calling their bluff or or just paying them and moving on how much you guys make a year matt um i'm a ups driver she's a dental assistant i make between the two of us she just got a raise if i work overtime i'd say we make before tax maybe 70 i'm sorry um 95 ish between the two of us right now okay all right so is this the next item in your uh debt snowball well this was an unexpected thing that just popped up about two days ago.

1:58:25Wait a minute, you've had 17 conversations in two days?

1:58:29Dave Ramsey:Well, I've got Bluetooth headphones and 10 hours a day of slinging cardboard that I can argue with somebody all day if I have to. This whole thing stretched out over two whole days. I mean, the first time, I guess maybe this makes more sense, back in her old mailing address when this all happened was her parents' home. back in February someone pulled up to her parents home asking for we didn't know what that was about and they didn't tell her parents any information and then about three days ago someone pulled up and just handed her mother the manila envelope the manila folder but to your point you've only been in contact with them for three days is what yes ma 'am yeah yeah yes ma 'am yeah let let it sit okay just turn it off the the paperwork says September I think 12th or 18th and you know and that's when it's supposed to be officially filed with the court.

1:59:19Dave Ramsey:That's fine. But I just don't know how serious to take that. I wouldn't worry about it. Okay, what would you recommend I do? Just keep haggling on them until I get a better result? Yeah, I would call back when you've got the money to settle it. And, you know, you can settle it for$1 ,000 today, right? I tried. I mean, I told them, I said, look, I even said, I'm doing the Dave Ramsey plan. I don't have a lot of liquid access. I got$1 ,000. Take my money. And they said, no, that's ridiculous. We can only come down 25%. And after some lady yelling at me for 30 minutes on the phone, she pulled the whole car salesman tactic.

1:59:52Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop.

1:59:54Dave Ramsey:Okay, next time you talk to them, if they say something in an inappropriate volume or inappropriate words, say, if you do that again, I'm hanging up. Okay. And then hang up. We're not going to have anybody yelling at me for 30 minutes over$2 ,000. Okay. Just hang up. Okay. That's a tactic. I still want to wind up in a situation where I'm in a courtroom now. You're not going to be in a courtroom. You're not even going to go. There's no point in going. You're going to lose. Not you, but your wife. She owes the money. Open and shut case. She loses. Now you're settling a judgment lien and not a debt.

2:00:33Dave Ramsey:Whoop-dee-duop-dee. It doesn't matter. It's a five-year-old debt. They're saying they can come at us with all their fees. They can come at you with all that if I choose to pay it. But until you choose to get a hold of me, you're not going to get it because you don't even know where we are. And make sure that her parents don't give out any information if anyone comes to their front door. And tell them if they come up on my property again, we're going to have them arrested for trespassing. Okay. So they're really just trying to scare me and show them on me. A hundred percent. Now, they're trying to piss you off.

2:01:06Dave Ramsey:Okay. If they can get you very afraid or very angry, you quit thinking with the proper parts of your brain, and you just want to kill them. Okay. That's why they yell. Are they calling them some more, or do you think I just need a letter? No, I would let it sit a week. Let it sit a week. Yes, sir. Call them back and say, you know, I talked to somebody over there. They were a moron, and I know what you guys paid for this. You probably paid about$100 for this debt, and I'm willing to give you$1 ,000. That's all I've got. If you want to take that, fine. And if not, there's not going to be a lot of discussion here.

2:01:38Dave Ramsey:Do you want that or not? Yes or no? If you don't speak reasonably, we're going to end the conversation. End the conversation. Call back the next day and do it again. It's like training a dog. I mean, you just have to do it repetitively, right? Yes, sir. My dog's got a shot collar, so it's a little easier when I'm training. That's it. That's it. Just hit the shot collar, and eventually the dog figures out we're not doing that crap. Right. And so you have to train these morons because their training has taught them that if they are unreasonable, angry, fear based, anger based, that they can get you thinking with the lizard part of your brain instead of the higher thinking parts of your brain.

2:02:20Dave Ramsey:And you do irrational things like give them the money out of your food envelope, which we're definitely not going to do, dude. But you make ninety five thousand and you do need to get this cleared up sometime between now and Christmas. So, yeah, just get, you're going to pay something to get it out. And yeah. And if you pay 1600 between now and Christmas and you've actually got the 1600 by then, that's fine. You're OK. But you don't need to wipe out your emergency fund for it. You're giving this way more attention than they are. So just back off. Just let them sit. Just let it sit for a week and call them up.

2:02:53Dave Ramsey:And if you can have a reasonable conversation, fairly short, yes or no, you want to do this. It is always fascinating that it's been five years. Yeah. and it just now we're going to sue you and it just randomly where the flip were you before yeah so just remember that yeah i mean is it that it just sits there it gets sold all of it and it just happens to be the file and they grab that file and next is next and they're just working they're just working it's a widget on the conveyor belt yeah yeah and so the time is always so random to me yeah five years later it's crazy yep and you know we know that this can be done we bought $10 million worth of bad debt and forgave it all one Christmas.

2:03:33Dave Ramsey:It was 8 ,000 accounts. Each of the 1 ,000 people that work here had eight people to call and say, we forgave the debt in the name of Jesus. And we paid two and a half cents on the dollar for it. About$10 million worth of debt for 259 ,000. Okay. And so, and it was all accounts just exactly like this. And we just called them up and said, your debt's forgiven in the name of Jesus. And some of them were like, I don't remember that to this point. I didn't know how to do it. It's been so long. Yeah, it's been so long. You remember that hospital bill you had from five years ago that was$42, and now it's$486?

2:04:09Dave Ramsey:Yeah. There you go. That's it. Yeah. That's the whole business work. But good for you, Matt, you and your wife doing this. I'm glad you're working through it, man. Yeah, I mean, yeah, y 'all are doing the plan. Working hard. Let me tell you what you're doing right. You're being very proactive. Yeah. That's what you're doing right. Right. The thing I don't want you to do is fall into the trap of letting them control the narrative and the conversation. So give a little more space in between. Even though you've got the time to sit on the headset and throw boxes, don't do it. Let them sit over there and wonder if they're ever going to find your wife because they don't know where she is.

2:04:44Dave Ramsey:And we're going to settle this for$1 ,000. And that's going to be a really good deal for them and a really good deal for you. and you get it in writing and no electronic access to your checking account or you do not send a debt collector money because you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:05:35Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for The Ramsey Show Live. Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about The Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it. Part of what, George? The Ramsey Show Live. Ken, that's what I'm telling them about. Ramsey Show Live in here? Nope, we're doing it on the road. You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz, September 30th. Are you free? The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George? I like the deep dish. Oh, okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish. You mind if I finish the promo?

2:06:09Is that okay with you? Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that. Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. George! George! Are you in here talking about TRS Live? I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it. Nice. So that means it's actually happening, right? It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. Listen, just tell me when and where. You don't know? Okay, we're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd. Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. Thanks, George. Please do that.

2:06:36Go. Pack. Hey, George. Speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather, or is it not that cold yet in Chicago? What is happening? Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets? Geez, I thought it was a good question. Okay. This is not an arena tour. This is a one-night-only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only$39, plus there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing, there's only 300 seats available. So get your tickets now at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? I just go where they tell me, man. Hey, have you been there the entire time?

2:07:14Maybe. Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book? I'm expanding my mind, George. That's how we got those PhDs. Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket. Okay. See you on the road, John.