Start Small and Keep Moving

22:55George Kamel:And so there's something you can do. So a simple will is a great start. People then go, well, I heard I need a trust. Well, it's not always true. There's ways to set this up where you don't need a complicated, super expensive trust to get started. You might just need a testamentary trust that's inside the will. Okay. So that can then specify. So your spouse, he'd be the beneficiary on yours. You'd be the beneficiary on his. And then a secondary, you can have the kids as beneficiaries, but you don't want them as first because the life insurance company cannot write a check to a 10-year-old. Right.

23:29So it would go to whoever the guardian is.

23:31George Kamel:Have you guys selected that? Okay. Yes. So we do have a guardian. It's my brother's husband, or my husband's brother. Okay. Wow, we're getting weird now. My husband's brother, and he is at the moment the secondary beneficiary. Is that how we would do it and then specify in the will how the money would go? Well, I wouldn't make him the beneficiary of the money. You can still make it the kids, but then there would be an appointed trustee. So with the testamentary trust inside the will, you can then name the trustee and name the guardian. So the trustee manages the money. The guardian takes care of the kids.

24:06George Kamel:They don't have to be the same person and sometimes shouldn't be. Right. Some people are great with kids, terrible with money or the opposite. Yeah, I kind of feel like it should be different people. That's the way my will – we ended up – we've got more than one property, so we ended up with a trust. But that's the way mine is. The one person that I trust with the money that will be the executor and then the people who would take my kids. But I want – with$2 million, I would guess you're not going to need$2 million in cash to raise five kids, right? So you might think at 21, we want to distribute some of this money at 25 or whatever.

24:52So that's when a trust could help you.

24:53George Kamel:And instead of naming the kids directly inside of that life insurance policy, what you do is once you have the will in place and you have the trust, the testamentary trust, you can then name the trust created under your will as the contingent beneficiary. So that's how we have it in my house, for example. Okay. And then the trust lays that all out. So the testamentary trust inside the will can say, hey, they're going to get this much at this age, this much at this age, and the rest at 35. So you can actually set up some staggered distributions because otherwise the kid turns 18, they get whatever's left or it gets split among them.

25:26George Kamel:And you don't necessarily want that because I remember myself at 18. But you also – something to think about. You've got five kids, okay? If your brother-in-law suddenly has his own family and suddenly has five more kids, he might need a new house. Right. He already has two. Okay. He might for sure need a new car, right? Right. And so sometimes these things can get cat. You can cap your the person who's taking your kids by saying only for expenses and food. Right. Or whatever. And then your kids can't get the soccer practice because all he has is a Jetta. Right. So like it's it's thinking through it big.

26:05But I hope this is all hypothetical. And it is. It is. I got to make it clear.

26:09George Kamel:John and I are not lawyers as much as we could have an awesome law firm. Please don't listen to us. Deloney and Camel Esquire. No, but I would reach out to an estate planning attorney to get the specifics, and every state has different laws. And so I'd reach out to a good estate planning attorney in your area and explain, hey, here's what we're trying to do. What's the simplest, cheapest way to set this up? I don't want to set up a huge expensive trust that we don't really need. Can we just do a testamentary trust? If I have a second – that's a secondary question. It's like is this – like what would be a reasonable expense for that?

26:40Do you have any ballpark numbers or –

26:42George Kamel:Well, the testamentary trust should be like a couple of hundred bucks versus a couple of thousand dollars for a full-blown revocable trust that you would set up. And so that's kind of the ballpark. Again, it's going to depend on the complexity in your area and who you contact. But I would just get a couple of quotes, say, hey, here's what I'm trying to do. Can you help me set this up? And mamabearlegal.com is a great place to start to do a simple online will. And then they can tag on top of that with their trust. So that will at least be a good starting point. have something now don't wait until you have the attorney to set this all up just go ahead and get something in place and i'll tell you this coming from a from i was my first will i ever made was in texas where the probe there's basically no probate and i've learned now that i i don't live in that state anymore and i talk to people over the country more than i ever did man some states have probate that is wild like the judge wants to approve every t-shirt that is bought for a child So I think for me personally, that would play into it also.

27:44Okay. And do you get around that by having someone administering the trust?

27:48George Kamel:Yeah. If you have the testamentary trust, then it bypasses the probate process and you set up all the details through that will. Okay. That's the thing I'm most concerned about is just that my kids are taken care of. And I'll tell you for a couple thousand bucks, if that's what it ends up being, we'll do soups and nuts for a couple. To me, that is what I would classify as a sole tax. I'm asleep at night. I paid a couple grand. It's expensive. I'm all good with that. If somebody comes back and says$15 ,000 or something out of the woods, then find somebody else. But for something, what it sounds like what you're dealing with is relatively simple.

28:24You don't have 50 properties and you don't have two properties. This is just I want to make sure our kids are lined up. And if something happened to us, they'd have a ton of money coming their way. That's a good idea to think through it.

28:34George Kamel:And Greta, because it is National Make-A-Will Month, which I'm celebrating all month long, I'm actually going to gift you. I'm going to gift you a free will through Mama Bear. So hang on the line. We'll send you that. And on top of that, but wait, there's more, John. We've got our Investing Essentials event coming up, and we actually are dedicating night to all to this estate planning topic of how do I not just build wealth but then protect it? How do I protect it from the government's grubby hands with taxes? How do I be strategic there? How do we pass it on? How do I pass it on without destroying my children and making sure that I leave the legacy I want?

29:06George Kamel:And so Investing Essentials is coming up, and I'm going to gift you a live stream ticket to that so you can access the virtual event. So you're getting the whole kit and caboodle here, Greta. Congratulations. Very exciting. For anyone else that wants to join us, Dave and I will be doing this event September 1st and 2nd, two-night virtual event called Investing Essentials. We're going to unpack Dave's investing playbook, wealth planning as well. And he's going to talk about, kind of unlock, hey, here's what the Ramsey family does. Here's the conversations we have behind the scenes. Here's the things that Dave has set up to avoid paying a bajillion dollars in taxes legally.

29:42George Kamel:So we're going to cover a bunch of that in this event with all new content, reducing taxes, 529 plans. How do I build wealth for my kids now that I built it for myself? How do I pass on character and wealth? That's a good thing to do. Tickets start at$199. You can get yours today, ramsysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast and YouTube. And John, even as we've been exploring this event, creating the content, it is fascinating how much stuff that there is to know. There's so much out there, and you're like, what do people need to know? Because we're trying to pack this into two hours per night.

30:15George Kamel:And you're going, how do we do like a master class on this without overwhelming with nerdery and jargon? So I'm glad you said that. But here's an important thing I want people to know about the wills versus trust conversation. I think people get into it and they realize there's so much to it and it just creates inertia. So hear me say, every person, everybody, 18 or older needs a will, period. Get a will. Start there. And then if things get more complicated, then go from there. But yes, if you want to go down every rabbit hole, man, it's like you can go. And we're going to actually walk through the wills versus trust situation, probate, all of that in the event.

30:53George Kamel:But you're right, John. Every single person. Get a will. If you love your family, get a will. If you don't, you do what you want. Yeah, that's right.

31:21Hey, I want to talk to you for a second about love. And not love like in Titanic or something. I mean responsible love. The kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid. Xander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget.

32:02In many cases, there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Xander for years, long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to Xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 to find the coverage that fits your family.

32:40George Kamel:Ashley's in Dallas, Texas up next. What's going on, Ashley? How can we help? Hi. Yes. So I am kind of in a bit of a pickle. I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car. I, amongst other things, but essentially I'm a little bit of background. I'm a single parent. I have a toddler and I also have a disability. So I've been kind of struggling to figure out what to do for work for quite a while, even before baby. But I'm just now trying to figure out some type of job situation and get back to work. However, I've been using my car for work before baby and now. And so I'm on the fence on whether I can keep this car.

33:49It's a very nice car. And it's paid for. I just don't know if I can keep it, you know, because it's a lovely car. What's making you want to get rid of it?

34:03George Kamel:Just because it's too nice?

34:08Or do you have other financial problems that this can solve?

34:11George Kamel:Because you're not going to free up a car payment. So you're going to, you know, what's it worth if you sold it? I would say I think private party value is about$8 ,000. Okay. So you get$8 ,000 and now you've got to go buy another car, right? Right, right. And you're going to have to find a car at least as good as that. Is it a reliable car? No issues? I think it's a reliable car. I just had to replace the alternator a month ago, so that's kind of what brought this up. That was a pretty big expense. I'm not making very much money. I don't have any savings anymore. How much are you making, and from where?

34:53So I'm making about, I want to say net$1 ,000 per month.

35:00George Kamel:Is that part-time work? Yes. part-time. So you're not on disability as far as income goes? No, unfortunately I tried to do that a long time ago and was denied for disability. What's the nature of the disability? I have MS. It's a lot of different things, vision issues, mobility issues, fatigue, spasms. I could go on. It's kind of a lot. Yeah. Do you have health insurance? No, I don't have that either. So I'm trying to figure out what's the next best move. The car is good, but it also has 257 ,000 miles. Wow. So what kind of car is this? It's a 2015 Lexus RX 350. Okay. So you definitely need income.

35:58George Kamel:We know that. Do you have any other debt? I think I have about$2 ,000 in debt. Luckily, I got debt-free. I mean, I was debt-free right before I had my baby. But now I've probably accumulated about$2 ,000, and that's about it. Okay. And there's no child support or anything coming in? You're just on your own? Child support is about$650 a month. On top of your$1 ,000? Yes. Okay, so currently we're trying to get by on$1 ,650. How much are your monthly bills adding up to? Oh, goodness. Honestly, I want to say about$2 ,200. How are you funding the gap? Negative. I was doing it through like some stocks that I was awarded through my previous job, but that is down to like maybe$1 ,200 now.

36:56George Kamel:Okay, so we need to plan ASAP. I'm assuming you've got pretty much nothing in checking or savings. Okay. Yeah. So income is the name of the game. With your disability, have you looked into work that you could do full time? Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out because whenever I try to do work to that level, my symptoms start to get worse, and then I'll usually have a relapse. That's what happens. Are you on any medication for the MS? No. Okay. Are you seeing a doctor? Yes, I will be seeing a neurologist within the next month. I finally got some help with that. Okay. Because I know I've got some family with that, and the medication can be a game changer, but it's also crazy expensive.

37:49George Kamel:And so that's where I'm asking about the health insurance. If we can get you a decent job that has some health coverage, that alone would change your life, especially as a single mom. So then it becomes, and again, we can't coach you here to help you find the job live, but what are you doing for work right now, part-time? Yeah, so right now I am doing Amazon, and that's just the only thing I can think of. You're just doing the side gig kind of stuff. Yeah. Were you working before? No. I mean, that's what I was doing. I was doing DoorDash before I had baby, but before I had baby, it was manageable.

38:30My rent was a lot less. You know, of course, my expenses were less. And you have no family, no community around you? with. No, not really. Unfortunately not. So that's why I was like, maybe I can just like, I mean, I know the car isn't really the problem, but then I'm afraid of another big repair. Yeah. I was very lucky to have the money to pay for that. Yeah. I, you got a lot going on. and if I'm if I've got one like meta thing I want to tell you is you have to metabolize you can no longer do this by yourself and whether that's getting with the local social worker whether that is getting with an MS group there in Dallas with which there are several whether that's going to a local church and say I need some support you're gonna have to open your hands up and say I need some help.

39:29Yeah. Because you're really close. And I'm saying this because I love you. Okay. This is not a judgment thing. This is just math. You're really close to you and your baby being out on the street. I don't want that for you. Yeah, I agree. And so you're going to find yourself pushed to knocking on doors for help. Go ahead and do that now. And if you can't, if, if it, I mean, man, I can't even imagine being at war with my own body like you are. Right. Like, man, I can't get that because I don't experience it. But intellectually, I just think that'd be a nightmare. Make it a part time job for you to constantly be looking for resources and calling people and not just sending out blanket emails, but calling and calling and calling.

40:11And even if you're laying down on the couch, calling for resources and support. Reaching out to neighbors, again, going to local church and saying, hey, I need some support. Do you all have any resources here? like you cannot do this next stage by yourself. Okay. Yeah. It's beyond admirable that you're fighting this health battle and you're trying to squeeze in what work you can and raise a kid by yourself. I mean, you have strength that I could only dream of having and you've reached the end of that, of your ability to carry all this by yourself. Is that fair? yes okay you're worth having people in your corner but people in your community have to know they need to be in your corner okay and it was that you're gonna get a lot of no's you're gonna get a lot of frustrations i want you to keep looking at that baby i want you to keep looking at yourself in the mirror and keep plugging ahead i'm proud of you for getting a doctor's appointment who's paying for that appointment um yeah there's a ms group or organization sorry i love it and i was hoping that there would be organizations that would help with medicine costs and things like that especially for folks in your financial situation and your single mom situation um become your own you and your child's best advocate and sometimes advocacy is rolling up your sleeves and getting a sword out and going fighting and And sometimes advocacy is finally having the courage to say, I need a bunch of help.

41:47I need a bunch of help right now. And so make that your other part-time job right now because you're running out of runway. And I'm worried about you and I'm worried about that baby.

41:56George Kamel:Yeah, at the root here, there's an income problem. And beneath that, there's the physical health. So if we can get our health in order and managed, now we can fight and go work 40 hours a week and get our income up. And then we can get to a better place and upgrade the car. But right now, selling the car does pretty much nothing for you other than maybe turn into a different repair on a different car. And so I don't want to trade one problem for another right now. Let's focus on your health and your income first. Thanks for the call.

42:31I'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy. between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized, my mental load can get pretty full. That's one of the reasons why I love Delete Me. Most people don't realize how many data broker sites have their information online, like old addresses, phone numbers, and even family connections. And that can put you at risk of being a target for spammers and scammers. But removing all of it yourself can turn into a giant project. That's why Delete Me is amazing because Delete Me handles it for you.

43:12Their privacy team of experts removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites and they keep monitoring it throughout the year. So far, Delete Me has saved me about 90 hours. I would have spent myself removing my information. And honestly, it feels so good knowing that someone is in the background helping me and I don't even have to think about it. So this summer, give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage. Get 20 % off annual plans at joinseliteme.com slash Ramsey. That's joinseliteme.com slash Ramsey.

43:58George Kamel:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Ranesha is in Los Angeles up next. What's going on, Ranesha? How can we help? Yes, hi. So I wanted to know, should I return a cruise that I paid for on my credit card now that I'm starting baby step number two? Wow. So the cruise hasn't happened. You booked it, and you're telling me you can get a full 100 % refund? I would pay a$100 penalty fee, and then the rest of it would be refunded. Yes. I would do it yesterday. Because that$100 penalty fee is so much smaller than the interest you will pay on that credit card bill.

44:42And it will jumpstart you. Like in three or four months when you get tired of this thing and the grind of paying off your debt is really kicking you, you're going to remember, no, screw that. I gave up a cruise for this. We're doing this.

44:56George Kamel:Okay. How much money will you get back? Um, it will be, it was$900, so$852. Okay, great. How much debt do you have total? All together, including my student loan debt,$255K. Woo, okay. So this cruise is symbolic. This is not like the difference maker and you becoming debt free or not. This is you drawing a line in the sand saying I'm done. Are you a physician? No, I am a mental health therapist. What are you making? Oh, no. Um, currently, um, I'm still an associate. So about 70 ,000 a year. Once I'm licensed, I'm due to make much more. Not that, not John can tell me how much an average mental health therapist makes who's licensed.

45:42George Kamel:I'm guessing like over maybe over a hundred grand, but not quite one 50. Is that accurate? Over six figures. Yeah, I would say that. Okay. What kind of mental health therapy are you talking about? Just regular clinical therapist. I do cognitive behavioral therapy. Do you have your own practice? CBT. No, no, no. I work under a private practice. And your private practice is going to pay you as a clinician over six figures? No, as a licensed professional, not my private practice, I'd probably end up either doing my own practice or doing like growth therapy or headway, one of those platforms, stuff like that.

46:22It's all based on how many clients you take. The more clients you take, the more money you make. Sure, 100%. Man, you owe a lot of money. Yeah. What other kind of debt is this? So,$209 is student loans. Okay. $24K is my car payment, and$22K is a credit card payment, or credit cards.

46:48George Kamel:Oh, goodness. Okay, so this is the same credit card you used to book the cruise? Yes. What is your credit limit on this thing? Well, it's two different credit cards altogether that make the$22 ,000, but the one that the cruise is on is a$17 ,000 credit limit. Okay. And you're ready for Baby Step 2. You called in saying, hey, I'm trying to start Baby Step 2. Should I return the cruise? So are you full throttle on this thing? Are you ready to cut up the cards?

47:15George Kamel:Yeah. That pause was so long. Because, Rayce, here's what you're looking at, okay? you're looking at probably three years of you working clients full-time and then you see in groups on Saturday morning and you doing private practice work if your site will allow it if the contract you have allows it and you see people in the evenings and you get in a contract with the police department to go do like crisis work in the like you're going to be working all the time for three years. And you just have to say, I want him to be a mental health professional that can sit across from my clients and I'm fully whole because I have agency and autonomy on my own life.

48:01Just like you're going to try to help your clients with, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So you just have to know the same as you would say, like with a client, you want to go from A to B, it's going to be tough and you have to make some transitions and I'm going to walk with you. you're going to have to make that same commitment to Ranesha. Is that fair? That's absolutely fair.

48:24George Kamel:Are you single? I am. Are you renting? I am. Okay. You got your own place? I do. All right. I'm trying to think of some solutions here. What's your rent every month? $12.71. Okay. That feels reasonable for your income. Oh, well, so they asked for the nearest major city. Got it. Good for you. And what's the car worth? Worth? Or what's owed? I'm not sure. You owe$24 ,000. So what is it worth? Let's say you sold it private party. What could you get for it, you think? Probably like$20 ,000. It's a two-year-old car with low miles. But you're still a little bit underwater on it. Mm-hmm. All right. I'm just trying to find some quick fixes here to get you some margin.

49:09George Kamel:Because I'm guessing right now, if you did an every-dollar budget, you laid out your income for the month, which I assume is, I don't know how much you're taking home. Is it like four grand a month? Yeah. Okay. So four grand a month is what you're taking home. Are you doing any investing right now? I do have some investments, but I don't know. The market doesn't seem to be making me any money right now, but yes, I do. Well, let's just pause that. The good news is you don't need to look at the stock market for a long time. Yeah, you're good. You're not going to be a player in it. So I would pause all investing.

49:38George Kamel:Do you have anything that's non-retirement that's invested? Yes. Like single stocks or something? Yeah, some market mutual funds, I think they're called. How much is in there? Like$1 ,200. Okay. So you at least have a starter emergency fund. Do you have anything else in savings? Just general savings. I have$8 ,000. Oh, great. Well, that's a H-Y-S-A. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but you're telling me that you could scrape together like$9 ,000 right now. Yeah. On top of the$850 ,000 from the cruise. Let's call it$10 ,000 you have to start. So$1 ,000 is your starter emergency fund, which means$9 ,000 can go to your next smallest debt.

50:17George Kamel:That'd feel pretty good to make some progress. Now you're halfway through that first debt. Almost halfway. Yeah. Is the credit card, is that the next smallest debt? The other credit card is the next smallest debt. The one that the cruise is on is the second one. What's that smallest credit card balance right now? $8 ,300. Boom. Done. You just paid it off. Done. How good does that feel? One debt down. And then you're going to cut it. I would cut up both cards because the good news is they'll still let you pay them off even if you close the card and cut it up. And so if you're serious about this, that's what you need to do because you're here.

50:52George Kamel:You put the cruise on the credit card. You're likely going to put other things on the credit card if it's still available to you. So as a promise to yourself, I would get rid of them. Yeah. Same as if somebody came in and you're running a group on a Saturday morning and you're talking to brand new folks who are walking into AA. you'd say the first thing you got to do is got to get rid of all the alcohol in your house. Yeah. That beer fridge in the garage has got to go. Yeah, fridge in the garage has got to go. The secret stash under the counter has got to go. Everything's got to go. Because right now, how much margin do you have every month to throw at the debts?

51:26George Kamel:None. Not much. Yeah. Exactly. And so let's say you put$500 a month towards the debts. Guess what? It would take you forever, eternity to pay it off. So instead, what if we made a plan to pay this off in like four years? That's 63K a year. That's a little over five grand a month. Now we have a very tactical goal of what we need. And you just told me you make four grand a month. So you can see there's a big math problem here, which is why John was saying you got to get nine jobs for the next couple of years. There's going to be a strong possibility you have to swallow your pride on some things.

52:00You have a graduate degree. You are a mental health professional. and Saturdays and Sundays you're at Walmart or Best Buy slinging boxes. Like I'm going to do whatever it takes to set me and my house free.

52:45As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey Solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted too much time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite.

53:04George Kamel:NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM, and more together in one place. More than 44 ,000 businesses run on NetSuite, including Ramsey. And now they're taking the next step with NetSuite Next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite Next helps you make the most of your time automating routine work like forecasting demand and following up on overdue accounts. With NetSuite Next, AI is built into everything you do, so you can ask it questions just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now, you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.ai.

53:51slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.ai slash Ramsey.

54:12George Kamel:Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. When private student loan payments start getting away from you, it can feel like you're paying for decisions you made years ago. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options and payments designed around your current situation. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Garrett in Iowa. Garrett writes, I'm 64, I'm married, and will start drawing Social Security in January. We're consumer debt free with a paid off house. Dude, well done, man. All right. We have about$70 ,000 in retirement and about$600 ,000 in CDs, which are about to mature.

54:50CD rates have plummeted recently, and the best interest rates we can currently find is about 3.5%. What should we do with the cash as the CDs mature? We like to get about$25 ,000 from both the 401k and the cash to use each year to combine the Social Security number with our Social Security, which would leave us about$45 ,000 a year.

55:12George Kamel:Okay, well, let's talk about CDs. These are called certificates of deposit, and people in their 60s love these for some reason. My own dad texts me, he's like, hey, I'm looking to get into some CDs. I'm like, why? Why? Because usually what it is, it's people who are scared to put their money into the market because they don't want to lose it, which is a valid fear, right? I get that, except my high-yield savings account's about three and a half. Yeah, that's what he's saying. He's saying the best interest rate they can find right now, as these CDs mature, he's like, hey, once I'm done, the best place I can find is maybe a high-yield savings at three and a half percent.

55:43George Kamel:And he's saying, I want to do better than that. Why would somebody put their money in a CD at three and a half or put their money in a high yield savings account at three and a half, but CDs lock your money up? That's the problem. The CDs have to mature to actually get that interest rate. And they used to be much higher. Now high yield savings accounts are pretty comparable to a lot of CDs. Except you can get your money whenever you want. Now the high yield savings accounts is a variable rate. So that rate can change tomorrow. It can go lower. The CD, you've locked your rate for that period of time.

56:10George Kamel:For that three years, five years. For better and for worse. For better and for worse. Rates could go up and you don't get to see that. So what I would do personally is sit down with an actual financial advisor and map out a plan to help this money grow for you. Because if this is essentially – they got 70 grand of retirement. So to their name, they have about 650 grand in a nest egg. That's not a huge amount to go from 64 – because we know the stats. If you make it into your 60s, there's a good chance you make it into your 80s. And so think about what the next 30 years looks like for this money.

56:41George Kamel:because if you were in the stock market the last five years, your money would have doubled. And so I don't want you to be spooked by the market because you want to keep your money more liquid. I would put a huge chunk of this into the market and a good financial advisor can help sort of squash the fears you have and put you into things that basically track the market. Good gross stock mutual fund over time will net you probably 9%, 10%, 11 % returns, which is far better than the three and a half that we're talking about here. Now, in the meantime, the next year, it could be down 10%, down 15%, up 20%.

57:14George Kamel:We don't know. But we do know that the longer it's in there, the higher chance you have of making money. So if it's money you don't need for the short-term future, I would be investing it instead of saving it. That's the key. And let me just say this. This isn't a huge nest egg. There is a chance, what is it, every seven years? So at 71, this$600K is$1.2, right, if it's invested well. and the market returns over the next seven years. But here's what's awesome. You've set yourself up, Garrett. You don't owe anybody anything. Not for credit cards, not for cars, not for your house. So well, well done, dude.

57:52You've taken so much risk off the table, and now it's just a matter of using this money wisely, not using this money desperately. So good job, dude. Thanks for the question.

58:03George Kamel:All right, let's go out to Kenneth in Riverside, California. What's going on, Kenneth? Hello. Hey, happy to be here. What's up, man? Hey, so I had a question. So my wife and I got married a little less than three years ago. We bought a house, put 30 % down. We eliminated all our debt except for the house. We still owe$448K on the home, and I really want to try and pay that off as soon as possible. About a year ago, I started saving, saved up about$130K. I was hoping to put that into the principal, refinance. rates are still not great. So I'm asking about the idea of recasting the loan to save about $900 a month and then keep putting that into the home as well.

58:49What's your income every month and what's the mortgage? The mortgage is$3 ,800 and our combined income after retirement.

59:01George Kamel:You can just give me after taxes, but don't include all the retirement and health care because that'll kind of muddy the waters for us. Okay. You might have to do some manual math. Yeah, so take home actual is about$10K for us a month. So that mortgage has taken up a good chunk of your income at like 38%. Yeah. But you've been saving all this money. Are you doing it for the purpose of recasting? Is that why you saved up the money? Yeah, I was hoping to put it into the principal, and if rates went down, I would refinance. But if they didn't, I was thinking maybe a recast could get that monthly payment down to where I could save money on the interest and maybe put that back into the home.

59:43Yeah.

59:44George Kamel:I mean, technically it will. All it's doing is applying it to the balance and then recasting the math to go, okay, now your mortgage payment is lower. The balance is still the same. The terms are still the same. So it's sort of artificially making you feel better. But if you currently make your mortgage payment, the same thing is happening. You're paying the extra$900 toward the principal right now. Oh, I thought that was going towards the interest. You'll see on your amortization schedule how much is going towards principal and interest, but it's not like a magic trick. It's not necessarily going to cause you to pay off the house faster.

1:00:18George Kamel:Okay. Because if you just take your current mortgage and make extra payments, you'll knock it out. And so that's where I'm asking about the mortgage comparatively to take-home pay. It's a lot of your take-home pay. You guys bought too much house, and I'm glad you have this lump sum. It can sort of make it closer to that 25%, I'm assuming, if you applied it. But what I would have done in hindsight is just make extra payments to the mortgage instead of socking it up in savings on the side. Oh, okay. And the recast will cost you a couple hundred bucks, and if it gives you some peace of mind and you do see that lower payment, good.

1:00:47George Kamel:But I don't want you to stop from making extra payments and get too comfortable with that lower one. Yeah, yeah. I think we want to get this thing paid off within 10 years. So either way, we're going to get this thing gone from our lives, I think. That's awesome. And I remember this. Every payment you make towards the principal balance drops the total amount of interest you're going to pay on that loan. Okay. Yeah. True. Of course. Because they're going to charge interest on what's there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So then maybe I'll still put the lump sum towards principal and maybe keep it. I'm hoping that just sort of gets you to that 25 % mark, but I still would use all the margin you can to throw it at the mortgage if you guys are in Baby Steps 4, 5, 6.

1:01:44George Kamel:I assume you are. Am I correct? Yeah, we're in 6. We have no debt, and we're a fully funded emergency fund and a good chunk in retirement as well. Awesome. Yeah, I would be investing 15 % of your total household income. Do you guys have kids? No, not yet. Okay, so you can skip baby step five, and then you're on to six, put an extra on the mortgage. Yeah. How long did it take you to save up that$100 ,000? It took me about,$130 ,000 was about a year. Wow, how did you save that much? We don't have any other expenses, really. We don't have any car payments, and we don't even really have enough. an electric bill because one of the debts that we knocked out when we first got married was a solar bill, which was$30 ,000.

1:02:35So we knocked that out when we got married.

1:02:37George Kamel:Well, you said you're bringing home about$10 ,000 a month. So how did you save up$130 ,000 in a year, mathematically? Yeah, I mean, we just didn't. I think there were a couple bonuses as well in there. Well, your savings muscle is fantastic. I would retool that to go, like now this is the mortgage payoff muscle. And so every dime you were going to put in savings for that mortgage lump sum, I would just throw it at the mortgage because seeing that balance go down does something for you psychologically. And once that mortgage goes down to 200 and then to 100 ,000, now it's under six figures. Now you can see the finish line.

1:03:13George Kamel:That's when it gets real. So I would set even a more aggressive goal for someone in your shoes, five to seven years, let's knock out this mortgage. How cool would that be? Take your wife on a date, dude. Take her on a date. It's time. John can sense it's been a while since we've hit up an olive garden.

1:03:53you

1:04:00George Kamel:If you're waiting for the perfect interest rate before you buy a home or refinance, that moment may never come. That's why people should talk to Churchill Mortgage, because rates move every day. And when rates drop, buyers flood the market, which means more competition and higher home prices. Smart buyers know they can't time the market. They move with a strategy. Buy the home you can afford now and refinance later if rates improve. Churchill helps you understand what you can actually afford, not just what you qualify for. And with their certified homebuyer program, you can get fully underwritten before you shop.

1:04:34George Kamel:So you can make moves faster and make stronger offers. And right now, Churchill has a special offer only for the Ramsey audience. Go to churchillmortgage.com slash Ramsey offer to learn more. That's a special website. Remember this, churchillmortgage.com slash Ramsey offer. This is a paid advertisement. The Churchill certified homebuyer program is available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumer access dot org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

1:05:28George Kamel:and coaching for your situation to help free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start every dollar for free. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Lisa is in Buffalo, New York. What's going on, Lisa? Thanks for taking my call today. I'm actually calling with a question relative to investing for my mom. She's recently gone from four sources of income now just to solely one source of income. She, too, like some of the earlier callers said, is a CD lover because she's scared of the stock market and doesn't want to invest in the stock market. She's debt-free. She owns her home.

1:06:13She owns her car. But she only has, you know, she has a pretty decent nest egg. but I don't know how to get her to do something other than putting it in a CD. And now with CD rates being so low, she really needs to have her money work for her.

1:06:35George Kamel:Has she lost a lot of money in the past or does she just come up from a generation where... No, she just is, yes. They just didn't know. She's 87. She doesn't really, you know, want to put any money in a stock market. But she does need that money to help her through bills and such because she does own her own home because, you know, life is expensive, right? Do you know how much her bills are every month? I would say that she has more bills every month than her Social Security. So I know she does need to use. And you don't know how much her Social Security is? I do. I think her social security is about$1 ,800.

1:07:20All right. She has basically$520 ,000 in CDs.

1:07:25George Kamel:Okay. And do you know when those are going to mature? That's what she's asking me this week. What am I going to do with my money? Because they're coming up to you. Well, here's what you can do. I don't know. Some people are logic people. Some people are emotion people. I would try both in your shoes. You could show her what her money could have been had she been investing for the past five years instead of having it in the CD. Right. And she would see it would have been a million dollars. I know. And that should scare her. There is actually more risk in her trying to play it safe than her being in the market because inflation is eating away at her money every day.

1:08:06Okay.

1:08:06George Kamel:She's barely keeping up. Right. Exactly. That's what that's what I see. And I don't know that she, I mean, I've, I've sit down with her and I, I mean, she does her own bills. I mean, she's amazing, right? At 87 years old, she does a great job, but I just say, she's got it. I said, mom, you can't keep eating away at the five 20 and expect to keep getting money. It said, you, you've got to keep that principle so that you can make money. I mean, I don't know how to get, I mean, I guess I don't know who to turn to and try to find somebody that could help. Well, will she even trust the third party?

1:08:46George Kamel:Because I know a lot of 87-year-olds are like, I don't trust anybody. So if she met with a financial advisor and sat down, someone who can help her understand this, is it an actual knowledge thing where they could kind of go, hey, here's what we're going to do. We're not going to put your money on black on the roulette table. It's not disappearing into the abyss. We are buying tiny pieces of the most successful companies in America and the world. And here's their past returns. Show her. It's been negative 10 percent, then up 20 percent, then up 25 percent, then up 23 percent. Right. And do you think that that could generate her monthly income off from that?

1:09:23George Kamel:Yeah. And then at that point, she can withdraw. But at least then it's not dwindling down as fast. And the good news is she's 87. There's good news and bad news there. She's not going to live to be Methuselah. She's, you know, we all have a certain time here on earth. I hope she lives a good long life and makes it to 100. But we don't need a 30-year retirement out of this 500 ,000 is what I'm trying to say. Right. The other thing you can do, Lisa, is, and by the way, I'm an over-emotional person. I don't know if you can tell. Like comically dramatic. And so I, even sometimes if my mind is made up on a thing, even the most logical responses, I'm like, ooh, you must be crazy.

1:10:01It's going to fall flat. You must be crazy too.

1:10:02George Kamel:I don't try logic on John. No, yeah, yeah. I got to hit him where it hurts emotionally. But I do think it would be worth doing this. If you know how much she draws from that$520 or$540 every month, do you know what that number is? Well, see, I can't say that right. I personally don't know. It's not that I don't want to say it, but let me say that I bet you she sometimes takes$2 ,000 to$3 ,000 of it. So I would ask this. Mom, can we work through a spreadsheet real quick? Or can we get out of the yellow pad and work through something really quick? At$3 ,000 a month, right? $36 ,000 a year. This money is gone in this many years.

1:10:53Right. I know. That's what my fear is. But I think taking the fear out and just putting it on paper and saying, we don't know what the next five years will look like. If you put this in there five years ago, it would be a million bucks. I know. That's what I'm so sad about. I know. She's been in the area that long. If I could have just got her to put it in there. I know. But listen, any – this is going to sound – this is me now trying to be logical even though I just said I'm dramatic. Any time you spend on what could have been is a waste of energy and time because you can't change it. I know.

1:11:25And so it's a matter of sitting with her and just saying, I love you, mom. This is your money. You do what you want to do. You'll be out of money by this date. And y 'all may look at it and say, you know what? You can draw$2 ,000 a month, and if you make it to$95, you've got enough. Or maybe you look at it and it's like, oh, you could go to$104. You know what? I'm not even going to have this conversation. I love you, mom. Don't take more than this out a month. and so it right let me say it this way if you're if you want to sit down have this conversation because of the regret of the last five years i'm saying this as nicely as i can but that's a you problem if you are haven't sat down and said okay at a three thousand dollar a month thirty six thousand dollar your draw it's going to be around for this many years um do i think my mom is going to live to be 97 because that'd be what 360 grand so if she lives to be 100 actually this money doesn't run out if she if she just withdraws straight principal and puts it in a high yield

1:12:25George Kamel:savings account yeah she just had under the mattress and just use the money yeah so there's there's a reality on both sides yeah and it might just be like oh i'm i'm actually really sad that my mom's getting older and i'm trying to grasp at things i can control and that's helping me avoid like oh man my mom's 87 i'm a loser someday right oh i know i just well the reason why the reason why she doesn't have those sources of income is because my dad died on December 23rd. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And that's coming up this year, right? Pardon me? It's going to be a different Christmas this year, right?

1:13:01Yeah. Well, it was a different Christmas. Oh, yeah. Last year. I just want her to still be able to live and have fun because she worries about money, right? so the the as a guy who is is prone to worry the path through worry is writing it all down

1:13:20George Kamel:and as my friend dr john deloney once said facts are your friends facts are your friends so if she sits down with the advisor and he maps out hey if we put under the mattress here's how long the money will go for here's how much you can take out if we invest it into this maybe we do half in the stock market here's what could happen that will at least give her a real picture of her options and then she still gets to decide yeah well i like that idea you're saying take half of it give it to them and still let her keep 250 exactly because even just a little bit at a time maybe we start with 10 000 50 000 i can't get it and you can always and again they'll show her hey you can get the money out it's not stuck in there it's not a vending machine that's going to eat your money and the longer you keep it in there the better off you're going to be and all of that can help her with this.

1:14:04George Kamel:But another part of this to think about is what does she actually need to cover? And you can help her with that of the budget of like, hey, mom, here's the gap. We really just need$2 ,000 a month. And here's the math on what your nest egg is and what could be. And also the reality of long-term care could be down the road. We don't know. That could be over a hundred grand a year for in-home care, a nursing home, whatever it may be. And that is going to, that's a, there's a much higher chance of that depleting the nest egg than her trying to use it for her living, cost of living and expenses. So I wish you the best.

1:14:34George Kamel:You're an amazing daughter. Facts are your friends. Yeah. You're a wonderful daughter for even thinking about this. You care a lot about your mom. And I think that tone is going to come across in all the conversations. Good luck.

1:15:07George Kamel:Hey, George Camel here. Listen, if you're behind on debt payments and drowning in debt, I already know what you're thinking. I can't afford a lawyer to help. And honestly, that's exactly what creditors are counting on. But here's what most people don't know. Guardian Litigation Group doesn't work like a traditional law firm. There's no massive retainer. There's no hourly billing that costs more than the debt itself. Guardian is a law firm built specifically for people in default, behind on payments or staring down bankruptcy. And their model is designed so people in that situation can actually access real legal protection.

1:15:39George Kamel:From day one, you're assigned an attorney. If a creditor sues you, you have someone who can actually represent you, not a call center that isn't built to defend you when things escalate. The best path out of debt is still doing it the right way. Budgeting, working the plan, changing the behavior. But if you've already hit a wall and you need real help, Guardian delivers. Their attorneys have settled over$600 million in debt for more than 55 ,000 people. So go check it out for yourself, guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

1:16:31George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, your feedback really helps us out. So please drop a comment, hit the subscribe button, share this episode with someone who could use it. You guys are the best marketing we have to get this debt-free message out there and help people build wealth. So thanks for doing it. Victoria is up next in Omaha, Nebraska. What's going on, Victoria? Hey, guys. So my biggest question is, how do we begin cutting costs drastically and even begin savings? We have no money saved. How do we do that without making our family feel constantly broke? We need help setting boundaries with our 12 - and 8-year-old.

1:17:08We want to involve them in our goals, but they just don't fully understand. And that's okay. They're kids. But we are just so sick of living paycheck to paycheck. We need to replace our furnace and AC. and start our savings, and we're just nowhere close.

1:17:26George Kamel:How long have the kids been running the house? We do kind of pride ourselves with our discipline, but I guess with that, like, I don't know, we don't really give them consequences. We just say, like, hey, quit asking why. Like, the answer is no. Like, end of story. I guess we maybe don't follow through when it comes to money. Let me give you a path, okay? You ready? I want you. Are you married? Yes, 10 years. Okay. I want you and your spouse and your kids, but I want you and your spouse to pregame this. Okay. Okay. And I want you all to create a set of family values together. Okay. And if you want to put it on, go to Michael's or Crafts, et cetera, or something and buy Hobby Lobby and buy a, like a canvas.

1:18:12If you want to put on a piece of wood, some construction paper, and I want you to frame it and put up in your living room right above your dining room table. awesome and that way here's the thing when your kids say but why but why you can point to that and say because that's who we are yeah and so in in our house of course dude i want my kids to want things that's fine that's developmentally appropriate like you said right it's it's normal but my kids know oh dad doesn't borrow money because that's who mom and dad are that's just who we are right and so it it it it takes it it's kind of like why don't we kill that guy because we're not murderers that's that's like who we are and so the the and then george asked a good question i gotta tell you the greatest gift you can give your two kids right now is for them to see two united like ride or die motivated motivated parents doing a really hard thing together to set their family free over the next two or three years.

1:19:19And what you're going to create from that is two kids that know, like my mom went back to college and I mean, went to college for the first time in her forties and then got like this big fancy professor job in her fifties and got tenured in her sixties. You know what? I can't say the words I can't because I've watched a woman do it. And so when this job came up, when I was 40 years old, that I could quit my job I'd worked for for 20 years and go be a YouTuber, right? Like, I was like, oh, I could change in the middle of my life because I had a roadmap because I watched my mom do it. Yeah.

1:19:59George Kamel:And we always say more is caught than taught around here. Yes. And so I promise you that it's not going to cause them trauma for them to watch you sacrifice. Instead, it's going to create character. Especially if they know this is who we are. We're anchored into this thing together. And then you and your husband have to suck it up and go do it together. Right. Yeah. My husband and I are both, well, especially my husband, kind of stuck in that mindset of just lack of. And, like, the kids have never been on a vacation. The kids haven't been able to experience, like, sports and stuff because, like, we just don't.

1:20:30George Kamel:Where's the money going right now? We don't prioritize that. How much do you guys bring in? Hold on. Before you get there, I want you to double click on what you just said. It's not because y 'all can't figure that out. Yeah. It's because y 'all don't prioritize that. Right. Yeah, we don't. So don't blame a bunch of other stuff for the fact that you and your husband have to look in the mirror and say, we've chosen to never allow them to play sports or to never make that a priority for us. Yeah, true. And the responsibility of those decisions rests solely on you and your husband. Right. Right. And by the way, you're a 12 - and 8-year-old.

1:21:10If you all once a month set up a tent in the backyard and cut hot dogs over a solo stove, they would tell that story at your funeral. They'd have a blast. That's true. Right? And so all this smoke in our minds of our kids are going to – our kids are going to – dude, our kids take a lot of cues from – most of their cues from the pulse and the temperature of their household, their parents.

1:21:35George Kamel:Yeah. If they ever go to therapy, they're not going to say, well, we never went to Disney, so that's why we're here. They're going to say, we're here because I watched my parents live in scarcity mode their whole life, stressed out. Now, they may go to therapy and say, I always wanted to play soccer, and mom and dad didn't prioritize that. Uh-huh. And that'll be a fair criticism. Right, right. But if you want to live your life out of fear of a criticism your current 8-year-old might make in 25 years, that's going to be a miserable life. Let me give you a line. Your kids don't get a vote. because they're kids.

1:22:09What they need is regulated, anchored parents.

1:22:11George Kamel:And if they like sleeping in a warm house in the winter in Nebraska, we got to get this furnace first. So we have a priority here. And so right now it's four walls, beans and rice. We're going to cover basic food, basic clothing, transportation, housing, utilities. And other than that, we got to get out of this situation. We got to get out of debt. So have you guys actually put this on paper? Have you done an every dollar budget to show here's our income here's where all of our expenses are yeah i mean i've got the whole what you guys call just like a napkin napkin math okay what does it reveal to you yeah um because you're saying paycheck to paycheck is it an income issue is your lifestyle inflated is it payments is it a car loan so it's well um no it's not it's not an income thing because we bring in seven thousand a month.

1:23:00George Kamel:Great. And then our average expenses are about$4 ,000. That includes obviously like mortgage. And we do have one car payment, but I can't sell it. I know you guys push it. I just can't because I use it for my LLC. I'm a house cleaner. So I just need a car that I can rely on. How much is left on the car loan? I want to say 15. Okay. Cool. So that's five months. It's gone. five months it because you got three thousand dollars extra every month so if you said we bring in seven we spend four on paper on paper we spend four there should be three thousand left over if we do this right so five months the car payment's gone how much is that payment 350 boom you just got a 350 a month raise how many houses would it take you to clean to get $350?

1:23:53Maybe like two or three. Okay. So you just got a day of every week back. Yeah. Right. You

1:23:59George Kamel:see, like this starts to change your life. And now you can save up because you know how to save up three grand a month to throw towards the debt plus this new three, three 50. So now you got 33 50 saving up on an emergency fund. Three months, you got 10 grand. That's a new furnace. Yeah. So just to clarify though, I, and I just need to hear it from you guys. Cause I kind of just need a slap in the face just like we're cutting cold turkey like end of story yes like we're not going to five below we're not no of that like but listen it's not for five years you just we just showed you a plan to do all this within the next 12 months right and by the way your uh eight-year-old is responsible for the rice and your 10-year-old is going to make the beans and you know what they're gonna love it they're gonna have a good time right yeah no they complained at first I said we're having the Ramsey special and it's not Gordon different Ramsey different Ramsey special um and thankfully yeah my daughter smiled and she's like it's not so bad but let me tell you this three of the top meals I've ever had in my life ever were with Dave Ramsey you know why because he can live like no one else.

1:25:13And he also gives like no one else, which is why he paid for that meal because I couldn't have afforded that meal. You know what I'm saying? So there is another side to this thing once you get there.

1:25:22George Kamel:Yeah. Make it a party. Go like, hey, we're going to do a competition. Each of you are going to make a meal. I get to be the judge. Yes. And then you can yell at them like Gordon Ramsay. It'll be really fun. You can smash the kitchen. Combine both Ramseys. But what we're saying is sacrifice doesn't have to mean we're all miserable. No, sacrifice can bring you together in a powerful way as a family. Right. So you get to decide, Victoria. You guys have the income to do this. There's not a lot of debt. This is a pretty solvable problem, but it takes all of you getting on the same page for the next 12 months going, we want a different life on the other side of this for the next 12 years.

1:25:57And it's mom and dad saying this is our house. And as for our house, we're going to choose peace and freedom.

1:26:24George Kamel:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, here with Dr. John Deloney. Andrew's up next in Kansas City. What's going on, Andrew? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I'm looking for advice on just how to move forward. My grandpa passed away about a year ago, and him and I had hung out five years prior to that, just traveling around the country. And during that three to five years, he would consistently tell me, hey, when I die, this truck is yours. And he would repeatedly say that. and when he did die a year ago. And when it came time for the will, I reached out to his kids, my dad, my aunt and uncle, and I said, hey, you know, Grandpa said, you want me to have the truck?

1:27:22Is that in the will? Is that just, you know, and they all told me no. And I was surprised because he's never not followed through, but I just said okay, and I wanted to respect it. and not contribute to any conflict. I met with my aunt yesterday, and she told me that my grandpa actually left a note attached to the will on a legal piece of paper saying, Zach gets my truck and signed it. And she told me that when it came time of reading the will between my dad, my uncle, and my aunt, that my dad and my uncle said that they were not going to speak of this note and to never mention it. And they didn't give me the truck.

1:28:12And so I was just looking for advice. I mean, if what your aunt said is true, and it sounds like based on your time and relationship with your grandpa, that sounds plausible. It sounds more than plausible. It sounds like that's probably true. I mean, the first thing I would be in your situation is absolutely heartbroken that my dad, my father, betrayed his own dad and betrayed his son in this way. Yeah. You know what I mean? Did this go through probate court? No, he had a trust or a will. And so there was an executor and a lawyer. And as far as I'm aware, they executed all through that. Have you have you do you live by your dad?

1:29:10No. Do you have a good relationship with him? No. My my grandma passed away and then my grandpa and I have always been best friends. My grandma passed away, and my grandpa and I hung out almost every day, every week. When I grew close to my grandpa five years ago, my uncle and my dad started having conversations saying that I was only growing close to my grandpa for money reasons. And they just started talking in that way. I mean, they can talk all they want, but if it's noted in the will, it's a legal binding document. But are you saying this was like a loose note attached? Yeah.

1:30:00George Kamel:It was like a sticky note? Because I don't know that it's going to hold up in court. Yeah, it was written on a legal piece of paper that was sitting on top of the will, and it said, Zach, it's the truck, and it was signed. And my aunt said it was all in my grandpa's handwriting. And I don't know your state laws, so I would talk to an attorney to figure out what your state law says about does this count? Can you access this physical evidence, or did they get rid of it? Where is that note? The story that my aunt told me yesterday was that the lawyer that was with my aunt, uncle, and my dad in that meeting said that legally they did not have to honor that note because it wasn't in the will.

1:30:45So it's not enforceable. Right. He said legally it's not enforceable because it's not inside of that will document. And so if they wanted to ignore it or not honor it, then they were free to do that. And then my aunt said that my uncle, you know, said that, okay, let's all swear to never mention this and this never happened.

1:31:10George Kamel:Man, there is so much dysfunction. Yeah. I mean, that's one of those things that maybe is legally right. I don't think it's morally right. I think your dad and uncle did you wrong. But here's the thing. I don't know what kind of recourse you have unless, I mean, how old are you? I'm 36. Yeah. I mean, I would say I'm thinking of my 16-year-old son when I say this. I'm not trying to make some like masculinity statement, but I would have a man-to-man conversation with your dad and your uncle. And your aunt has to know that she's going to be right in the middle of it. And it might end up being two brothers versus sister.

1:31:52Did she tell you to swear you would never say anything? I mean, this sounds so dysfunctional, so middle school, you know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. She said you can't. She said I swore to them that I would never say anything that no one would ever find out. So she said she didn't want them to ever find out. So what she did was she did something that was morally wrong, and then she has been carrying that cinder block around for a year, and then she just handed it off to you and said you carry it. And don't tell anybody.

1:32:26Bro, it's heartbreaking. It is what it is. But legally, he's probably correct. And I think you, I mean, if I'm you, I have all I need to know about a dad who would dishonor his son and his father in this way. And you're 36, and I would make my way through the world with that insider information. I don't see any way you get this truck. Are they using the truck right now? Okay.

1:32:51George Kamel:No. They just don't want you to have it. I question them a lot. I'm sorry? Like, is it collecting dust somewhere, or are they actually driving it? No, they liquidated it immediately. Yeah, it's gone. They just sold it and took the cash. Yeah, my dad, I asked about it a year ago. My dad said he drove it to the dealership and sold it and liquidated it. Yeah, it's gone. I mean, yeah, it's gone. and I mean you you dude I'm not a lawyer so I don't know but I think your grandpa had every intent to give you this truck but he didn't do a great job actually making it official because this should have been in the will properly witnessed you know state specific all that to your laws and I don't think based on what the other attorney said that there's any recourse here but also relationships are over right but also like my dad has said hey there's a few things I want my daughter to have it I want your brother to have this and this is going to be yours and we're all moral adults and so we're like yeah cool it's not like when he dies we're going to be like ha ha ha he didn't write it down anywhere I don't think your granddad's out to lunch I can see that being handled like that all over the place but your aunt lacks all moral courage your uncle and your dad are immoral.

1:34:17I mean, they're non-integrous people. And so, dude, my rule of thumb is I just don't do business with folks like that. I don't do relationships with folks I can't trust.

1:34:24George Kamel:They chose that money from the truck sale over their relationship with you. And more importantly, their relationship, like, honoring their dad's wishes. So it is what it is. But yeah, you especially are not going to... I can't see a legal course. If you want to go talk to an attorney, go for it, where you could go get the money for the truck. I mean, that seems like it's way down the road, but Sorry, brother. I hate this for you.

1:35:13Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here with big news. The 2027 Ramsey Goal Planner is here and you can get it at our lowest price for a limited time. Guys, this isn't just another calendar. It's the only planner with exclusive monthly content from John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, and me to help you set clear goals and actually stick to them all year. So don't wait. Order yours by August 23rd to get our lowest price, just$35.97. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store to get the deal. That's RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:36:09George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George here with Dr. John Deloney. Now, here's what some people don't realize about wills. They are not about your age or how much stuff you have. There is not a moment or a net worth where it makes sense to get a will. If you're an adult with people you love, with kids, with pets, with stuff, anything you want handled a certain way, you need a will. It gives your family clear direction when they need it most. So if you're ready to create one, and if you don't have one, that means you're ready. Go to mamabearlegal.com. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text the word quiz, Q-U-I-Z, to this number, 33789, and we'll help you figure out which option fits your situation.

1:36:48George Kamel:Jamie is in Sioux Falls up next. What's going on, Jamie? Hey, good afternoon. So I had a question about home and equity and all that good stuff. So my fiance and I are getting married in 2028, and we each currently own a home. Far away. Well, okay, so I have two kids who I've raised. One's already out of the home living independently, and one leaves for college in the fall of 27. So that's why we're waiting just a little bit longer. God, you don't want to live with your child. You're like, let's just wait and just swap the child for the fiancé. Well, exactly. You know, we're in two different towns, so I'll just let him finish high school here, and then I'll move on with my life.

1:37:35George Kamel:Cool. Okay. Sorry to derail. I'm always curious. We're good. We're good. So my main question, I would love to be debt-free sooner than later. By the time we're married, I'll be 46. He's a little bit younger than me. He'll be 38, but that's beside the point. But with both of our houses, I'll be moving into his house. and what I'm questioning is when I sell my house, should I put the equity that I receive into his loan to work towards that financial goal of becoming debt-free? But I didn't know what the financial, if my name needs to be on his house or if it would be considered a gift or if I'd still have to pay taxes on my equity that I receive, things like that.

1:38:25George Kamel:What is your house worth today? I would say it's probably around$220 ,000. Okay. And what'd you pay for it? $85 ,000. Okay. So you're not going to have any taxes with the capital gains exclusion. So you're good there. So what I would do is, let's say, it's not going to be paid off by the time you move. No, it won't. I'll still owe probably a little bit, but yeah. Okay. So whatever equity you get, let's call it$200 ,000. Sure. You could put that in a high-yield savings account. Are you immediately going to move in with him? Like it's like, I'm selling the house, we're getting married, and then immediately moving, or is there a gap in time?

1:39:04No, I'll probably move in once we're married. When I sell my house, I don't know if it will be right away after or not.

1:39:11George Kamel:Okay, so there's not really any urgency. It's not like it's on fire and we need to throw all this at the mortgage immediately. But I would just park it in a high-yield savings account knowing that we want to earmark this for mortgage payoff if there's no other debt. Are both of you consumer debt-free? Yeah, so he only has his house debt and I only have my house debt. Great. What's left on his mortgage? $180. Oh, fantastic. That's a pretty cool start to this marriage. If you guys could be completely debt-free, house and everything. That's what my goal is. And he likes that idea too. I would absolutely make sure your house is on the deed as well.

1:39:47George Kamel:Yes. When you guys are married, that's very fair. I'm a big fan of this. I think if you're married, unless you're in some super high income tax bracket and you're starting to move stuff around in different ways that don't apply to 99.9 % of us. Y 'all's names need to be on everything. Both of y 'all's names. A joint checking account, joint savings. Yep. And we're planning on, I've talked him into doing that and he's on board with that. He better be. You're about to make this guy debt free. This is awesome. I know. He feels bad, but I'm like, we're joining our lives together. It's going to be our money.

1:40:24It's not just mine. There you go.

1:40:26George Kamel:And you guys are going to be building wealth together, hopefully for the rest of your lives, right? Right. Exactly. So this is just one pretty big financial decision that marks that moment of saying, this is who we are. We're a couple who combines everything because we're one team, one dream. We're going to build wealth together. My retirement is your retirement. There is no, well, this is mine. This is what I brought into the marriage. Right. And that's hard. I mean, I'm really proud of you guys. There are a lot of couples that are older, they're 30s, 40s, 50s, whatever it is, a second marriage.

1:40:55George Kamel:They have a really hard time letting go because of the past wounds and the baggage. Sure. Sure. Well, I've been on my own with my kids for 15 years. So you kind of, you move on pretty, you know, after eventually. Yeah. Wow. That's fantastic. It's impressive. And I'll tell you, like, I, here's a thing I did and it was all accidental. I had bought a car and I went down to the dealer and negotiated and bought the car. And then I surprised my wife and went down and I didn't have cash for it so I took out payments but I bought her a car. And she, one day when the registrations came she said, hey, just saying this out loud my name's not on anything any of these cars and it feels like you on paper, legally, you own and I was like, oh gosh it hadn't even occurred to me and so adding her to both of the cars these are both our cars I might drive one and she might drive one but these are our cars and so yeah any sort of asset like that I like both couples names on everything especially, especially, especially if you're walking and dropping$200 ,000 on y 'all's house then y 'all need to be on there and and he's fine with adding my name there's like no angst against that by any means but do we have to refinance it to get my name on it because he has a really low interest rate that's where it won't matter kind of because you're paying it off okay that's true because if the house was paid off you could still be added to the deed i got nothing to refinance on my house so you know what i mean that's not they're not inextricably tied together but even if you, let's say you have to, then in your situation, for me, that'd be a no-brainer.

1:42:39I'd refinance it and pay it off the next month. Oh, that's true, too. Okay. Because that's just for the mortgage.

1:42:44George Kamel:Your name doesn't need to be on the mortgage. No. Because there won't be one. This is just, so the deed is separate than mortgage. Yes. Okay. Cool. Way to go. Congratulations. I would send you a wedding gift, but I don't know that I can wait two years. I don't know how to get married. And Jamie, let me tell you this. Don't get excited and get married and then pay off this house and not put your name on there because you're just don't do that. Do not do it. Yeah. Oh man, that's a good one. John, I don't know what it is, but it's funny that people who, and this is just me just saying this out loud.

1:43:18George Kamel:This is what I've seen. Couples who are not married that are living together have no problem combining financial lives for some reason. And people who are adults getting married and then they move in together have a really hard time combining finances. What do you think is behind that? That's a good question. I've never even thought about that, but you're right. I, my guess is. Cause I was telling people, no, why'd you combine finances? You're not married. Then we can't get, we can't convince the couples to combine finances that are married. Yeah, that's a good question. I think when people get married, there's a sense that I want to hang on to some, some of me.

1:43:51And so this is a way I, I can pretend to do that, that this is mine and that's yours. Even though we are not doing the saying there's this desperation to hang on to my individualness, right? Whereas I think - Like marriage is scarier. It's a bigger step.

1:44:04George Kamel:And so you feel like I have to protect myself a little more. Well, it's not even protection. I think it's just more, it's the illusion of identity. I'm losing myself and this is a way I can hang on to myself. This is my money. And it's like, you make 40 grand. And it's like, that's mine though, right? And then the other side of it is, I think a lot of couples move in together because they think they're going to be able to pool everything and it will be easier for them. And so they just dump everything into a bucket. and they think that's going to solve all the problems. And it often creates more.

1:44:32George Kamel:It's like, well, instead of Venmoing each other, let's just pay this out of one pot if we're going to be roommates. That's very interesting. I didn't think about it like that. And then he buys, because I mean, I tried various stages of that with different college roommates. Like, no, dude, we're all just going to, it never worked. You get the milk next time. That never works out. It always falls on one person who's then resentful of the rest of the roommates. Or I'll buy the electric bill, you buy all the groceries, and this dude's not buying great groceries. But if you're wondering out there, what do you do if you're about to get married?

1:45:02George Kamel:I always recommend whoever has the checking account, just make it a joint checking account. You can add someone's name to it. That's what I did with my wife. Joint savings account. Joint high yield savings account. You can get it at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Get that all set up in minutes. It doesn't take a long time. It just takes you letting go of this illusion of control that I'm still going to be my own person. You are and also you are one together.

1:45:51Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar Budget app. Because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress.

1:46:31Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

1:46:51George Kamel:Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we're going to break down one of the questions we got this week. I've recently gotten married and we are paying off$40 ,000 in student loan debt. should we wait until we are debt free to get a will? Here's your answer. Marriage is exactly the right trigger to get a will in place. And no, you should not wait until you're debt free. A will will cost you a couple hundred bucks max, protects your spouse right now. If something happened to you today without a will, there is still a process in place. The state gets to decide what happens to your assets and who makes decisions for you.

1:47:26George Kamel:And that can be a long, painful process. And that's a risk you don't want to carry while grinding through the debt. And at Ramsey, we use Mama Bear legal forms for our wills. Our entire team uses it. It's one I got. Regardless of your financial situation, you need to have a will in place. And if you're unsure about what next step you need to take, Ask Ramsey is here to help. I love getting messages like this, John. They ask me a question in the DMs. By the time I see it, they say, oh, nevermind. I used Ask Ramsey. It gave me a better answer. Come on, man. I agree. They did say it sounded just like me.

1:47:58George Kamel:So I I wonder if they trained Ask Ramsey in my voice. That's a dark, snarky voice. I would love for them to be able to choose your character. Like you can choose the Deloney. And there's like a rabbit trail of like seven minutes before it gets to the answer. It's entertaining along the way. I can't breathe. Why are you sad? We start with a breathing exercise. We're going to write a letter to our dads. We're going to hug our wives. And then we'll tell you to roll over the 401k. Exactly. I love it. All right. Brian is in Green Bay, Wisconsin up next. What's going on, Brian? Hey, guys. How are you doing?

1:48:33Good to talk to you guys.

1:48:34George Kamel:Doing great. Good. My wife is a fan of John's and I'm a fan of George. So we got you both covered. Something for everybody. Right. So I guess our question is we're looking for strategies on helping our adult children combat this whole thought out there these days that capitalism is ruining their lives and there's nothing they can do about it. And it's everyone else's fault but their own. Whoa. So what's caused them to feel this way? Social media, I suppose. Okay. Do they work jobs? Yes. For like public companies or what? What do they do? Warehouse work. Warehouse work. So I'm just wondering at the heart of this is someone who's frustrated because they're not where they want to be.

1:49:19Yes. And so our oldest child has never really been a big fan of effort. Yeah.

1:49:25George Kamel:Capitalism rewards effort. And so if you're not a fan of effort, you might like socialism a little bit better. Right. Although if you look throughout history, socialism ends up with a lot of people giving a lot of effort they didn't want to give. Yeah. And we've never been shy about, you know, spreading to our kids that we struggled a long time, you know, for years and years, working two jobs, both of us, working opposite shifts when they were kids just to keep food on the table. Yeah. there's no shortage of hours that either one of us put in. But our oldest is just like, well, that was you guys, and it shouldn't have to be that way.

1:50:04And that's so persuasive on YouTube and Facebook. Yeah, here's the thing, Brian. You and I both have to metabolize this. It's just guys who have worked a lot of jobs and take a lot of pride and take care of our families. I can spend a lot of energy being angry at the message, right? that actually you should just wake up every day and have whatever you want handed to you right and i also have to be honest and say that's an appealing message oh it is right and so i'm not going to get mad at you for like an appealing message you're right that sounds that would be incredible. It would be. And it's not reality.

1:50:49It's not real. Right. Right. And so it's less that and more, you're not, you're not going to convince that message. The, the neuroscientists and the tech folks are more powerful than you and I, they just are. Right. And so the only tool you and I have in our, in our, in our toolkit for our kids is relationship. And I love you. and I'm not going to give you extra money, but you're always welcome in my house. It's good old-fashioned, I love you relationship. We've told him that if it comes down to it, he can move back if he absolutely has to. He gets hurt on the job or he can't get a job, gets let go for whatever reason.

1:51:33But it will come with conditions. Of course. He has to live by our rules. We're not going to just let him lay around and play Xbox all day kind of stuff. Of course.

1:51:41George Kamel:I don't think people are inherently lazy. I think he's just missing some mojo. He didn't know that, like, oh, you can do something you enjoy that has some purpose and add value to society and people's lives. Or you can do something that is adding value that maybe you don't necessarily enjoy, but doing that gives you the life that you enjoy, right? Yeah. That's what we've tried to coach him with and all of our kids. Find something that you like. You don't have to be good at it. You can learn to be good at it. Of course. You know, find something that you're passionate about or that you're interested in more than just passing glance.

1:52:16Yeah.

1:52:16George Kamel:I think, you know, John's onto something here. I would not try to argue them over to your side because it just becomes a political debate at that point. It's just a lot of emotion. Instead, I would get to the root of the pain points that they're feeling and go, oh, here's what's really going on. They spent their whole lives going to school, doing all this stuff. They're working a warehouse job they don't like. They're not making enough money to accomplish any of their dreams and goals. And now they're frustrated. And so they're looking at the system as the villain. And that's a great villain because there's so many things wrong with the system, isn't there?

1:52:49There is corruption. And system is undefined, right? It's undefined. It's a boogeyman. For all of human history, if someone didn't like hard work, then there was a penalty for that. And now, if you don't like hard work, you don't like the grind. And by the way, I don't love the grind, but like the grind has certain outcomes over time. Right. But now it's it's become heroic. Right. The new thing, like the new heroism is something's happening to me. Instead of look what I scratch and clawed and made happen or look at the benefits I received and how I maximize those benefits. That's not heroic anymore.

1:53:36That's manipulative, and that is taking advantage of people. All right, so you're trying to get in those debates is fighting a losing battle. I wouldn't even engage in it. I'd call my son and ask and tell him I love him. How are you doing? Let's go get breakfast. Say, hey, I'm done arguing about this. Let's go fishing. We do. We don't engage with him much anymore because I'm not on those subjects. We do invite him over to sit at the fire with the rest of the family, come over for dinner once in a while. So whenever he has a chance, he's usually worked very odd shifts, like 10 to 5 a.m. or something.

1:54:11So it's real difficult, and he worked odd days. So a lot of times it didn't mash up. But we've always tried not to go into the, well, we can fix it for you mode. Yeah. Because he doesn't want to hear that. And so the few times we have let slip, he'll get mad and go away and then come back a few months or a few weeks later.

1:54:32George Kamel:What's the ages? uh the oldest is 26 then we've got two 22 year olds and a 17 year old okay yeah that's that's a pretty normal phase in your 20s because you're you're trying to figure it out and everything you were told you realize is kind of a little bit of a lie from well-meaning people and so there's a sort of like a the light bill has to get paid every month like i remember that i remember i remember that exact thought in my head i have to do this every month for the rest of my life and I was like oh man so there there's a reality to what they're facing and I would lean into that empathy versus hey what you're experiencing is not real right and the definition of capitalism I don't think is going to solve this even though they would go oh yeah I agree with that competition is good yeah individuals should have the right to like own stuff yeah supply and demand is actually a healthy economic model I don't think we're going to get to that level of logic no no we're I guess our main goal is to just get them to fully accept and not to like it.

1:55:36I didn't like it when I was in my 20s to accept that what they put in their life is basically what they're going to get out of it. And if they wait for life to happen to them, then it's not going to be fun.

1:55:48George Kamel:Amen. I mean, I think we can all agree on that behind this desk. It's up to you. That's what capitalism says. And if you believe it's up to someone else, then that day will never come. And eventually you'll get frustrated enough, hopefully, to go, I'm going to do something about it because no one else has yet.

1:56:29Thank you.

1:56:42Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:57:30George Kamel:Our scripture of the day, Luke 16, 10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Will Ferrell said, Before you marry a person, you should first make them use a computer with slow internet to see who they really are. Ain't that the truth. John is in Fayetteville, Arkansas. What's going on, John? I am three months behind on my mortgage and I don't know what to do. I was just calling to get some advice. Oh man, what happened? Well, I'm in construction, and work slowed down, and I fell behind, and then being able to get caught back up seems like it's impossible.

1:58:19What's your mortgage payment? $2 ,200 a month. Wow. So are you 66 in the hole right now with this next month looming? Yes.

1:58:30George Kamel:Is it just you? uh as far as income yes my wife stays home with our our we have four kids and our youngest is autistic so she stays home and homeschools him oh my goodness as construction has slowed down it's going to sound like we're picking on you and i'm not meaning that in any way okay trying to as construction has slowed down have you taken two or three or four jobs like because this whole this whole house sits on your shoulders yeah um i like i've looked for like other stuff like but like around here is like where i live is not the job market is seems like it's not very good is that in construction specifically yeah in construction in general yes no i'm talking about I'm talking about like you wake up and you don't have a job that day, and so you're driving Uber, you're delivering Amazon, you're over at Walmart throwing boxes.

1:59:34You work in a warehouse overnight. That's what I mean. Oh, no. I haven't even looked at any of that. Here's what I'm saying because you don't need more construction jobs. Underneath that, you need one thing, money, period, from anywhere, right? Yes. And so we're going to take every possible job we can. And we're going to have to tell our wife and our three or four kids, I'm going to have to be MIA for a few weeks because I mean, for a few months, I got to go get us right sized up because the whole house is you're about to lose your house, man. And I'm saying that again. I know, you know, that I just want to say it out loud.

2:00:08Like, this is this is scary business now. Yeah. Have you talked to the lady? My wife.

2:00:15George Kamel:Or have they called you? We've talked to them, and they had us fill out some paperwork for assistance, and that was a month ago. And when we called them, they said that, well, we're on a waiting list. We're number 1 ,005 on the waiting list. They would get to us. Okay. As far as assistance? But I'm saying, like, are they about to foreclose on your house? No, we haven't got anything as far as foreclosure or them calling about foreclosure or anything like that. Well, I would make sure you stay proactive to negotiate a repayment plan, a mitigation option, because I don't want them all of a sudden calling you saying, hey, you guys need to be out this week.

2:00:55George Kamel:We're foreclosing. Yeah. And so you need to stay on top of it with them to explain what's going on, explain that you need to get on a repayment plan, that you're working on getting current. Okay. And get everything in writing. Don't rely on verbal promises from the guy you talked to on the phone. Now, are you using credit cards to fund the gap right now? What are you doing to stay afloat? No, me and my wife. So my wife is doing like she's sparking, doing like Walmart delivery in the evenings after whenever I am working. And that way I can watch the kids while she goes and does that to try to help.

2:01:38But like that's about it. I know, but what are you doing on the days that you're not doing construction? Trying to find work in construction, and I need to start looking to try to find something else.

2:01:51George Kamel:Yes. Are you handy? Can you put like a hammer at a nail? Oh, yeah. Can you start a little handyman business and charge$60 an hour in your neighborhood? Probably, yeah. Because I know I have paid these guys a lot of money, and they tell me, I go to these really nice neighborhoods, and little old ladies, they can't get up to unscrew the light bulb to swap it. And so you can help a lot of people and make good money doing it just right there in your neighborhood. But I want that to be option number two. You've got to go get a job, dude. Get some stability and then add the side hustles on top of that.

2:02:26Correct. And then start flying up your neighborhood or get on Nextdoor app and say, I'm a handyman and I'm incredible and I'm trustworthy and I got four young kids and I'm a man of my word and I'm good. Yes. And I'll come over on set. As far as like - I'll come over on Saturdays and Sundays. On credit cards, we cut all those up. Good. We got them paid off and we said, we're not doing this again. We're tired of being broke. So we cut all of them up and we're not even using credit cards anymore.

2:02:51George Kamel:Well, how much money do you guys have to your name right now? I've got like$2 ,400 in my bank account. Okay. And do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage? Yes, we have two car payments. What are the cars worth? Um, one of them is worth 10 and the other one's worth about 14. Okay. I would find, and what's the balances on them? Um, the one that's worth 10, the balance is like 14 on it. And the one that's 14, the balance is, I think 20 ,000 on that one. So underwater on both. Yes. What's the payments on those? Uh, 800 a month on both. Are these cars about to get repoed? um well one of them one of them is current and the other one is not the other one is two months man i'm scared for you yeah yeah yeah i wouldn't lay slumber to my eyes no i would be out there working every i've been going driving down the road going to every single store and saying you guys hiring, I can start tomorrow.

2:04:03George Kamel:I'll start right now. Yeah. Whatever you need me to do. That's the kind of attitude you need instead of, well, I'm waiting on the construction market to pick back up. I would be calling every single person in my phone to say, hey, do you know of any work available doing anything? John, I have a vivid memory of an executive at my church getting laid off when I was a young kid. And that following week, he took over the janitorial role at the church. He was cleaning toilets. And then I remember thinking, oh, that's that, not that he was at a fancy job and now he's not, but I remember as a young man thinking, oh, that's what honor looks like.

2:04:47You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes. Today is your day, brother. I don't want you to go to sleep until you've gone and knocked on four different businesses this afternoon, okay? Yeah. Go get applications this afternoon. Because here's the thing. You have a... Nothing matters except for your house right now. You've got to get current. Yeah. And you've got to, got to get out of the shame spiral you're finding yourself in, right? Yes. The only way out of this is through action, brother. Okay? Yeah. You're a good man. you got kicked, you got hit hard and you fell down. Now your family and you need you to stand back up and go get after it.

2:05:36We're on the same team, brother.

2:05:38George Kamel:You call us back if you need anything, John. I hope we gave you enough homework to keep you busy. Yes, no, absolutely. We probably just gave you more of a kick in the pants, but no more schemes. No more... It is time for one thing and one thing only and that is to go get to work on top of work and on top of work and you're gonna you're gonna be so tired you can't even see straight you got four kids i know you know fatigue at a level that most people don't you're about to be triple that tired but your family's gonna have a roof yeah you and your wife are gonna have cars and you're gonna be able to sleep at night finally okay okay game on and you will get current on that mortgage current on that car payment you're gonna get through this because you you're a guy who has the work ethic you've just been kicked.

2:06:21George Kamel:And so it's time to get back up and start fighting, man. Cause you got a lot of people relying on you. A lot of people that love you and you're worth, you're worth this. And George, I want to reiterate something you said. Often when I talk to folks in this very situation, it's, there's a fear to call the mortgage company. There's a fear to call the car loan folks. Often having that phone call and telling them, I know I'm working on a plan is what they want to hear. It's the absence of any sort of information other than we're not getting paid. They're going to start their automated processes, right?

2:06:55So get on the phone and be very proactive. If you find yourself behind, like John is, and get on the horn and let people know, yes, I know I'm behind and I'm going to be working on it.

2:07:05George Kamel:That puts this Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:17We'll be right back.