Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change!

27:10In order to get out of this hole, he's going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week for a while. And I hate that. And let me just call - But I'm just going to tell you, you guys need more income, especially on this car problem, because we can't get rid of the car. Yeah. So we're going to have to just dig, dig, dig, and it's going to take a while, but you can't do it. And what I like about this conversation is you hear the habit talk about hot mind, cold mind. Yes. You're doing this in a cold mind right now, which is you're not deep in the emotions. You're on the outside of it and you're making clear decisions.

27:48Let me tell you, Ken, when that baby hits, all of a sudden that what you've said about side hustling and paying off the debt, it, that's going to want to fly out the window. So please remember this call, write it down, put it in a frame, put it on the refrigerator, because when that baby hits, you're going to want to go the opposite direction. But you made a decision today in the right frame of mind to do the right thing. And that's what's going to keep you solid when these baby emotions. Got to tee you up on this emotional issue. What is the key to getting out of this emotionally? I think what we just talked about, which is knowing it's coming and trying to make those decisions ahead of time, but also understanding, okay, what season am I entering into?

28:28Yeah. A whole lot of just awfulness. Yeah. Because this stuff, it runs in the background of our lives without us having the time to really get into it. And so knowing it's there is a big help. All right. So that is just one of the reasons for those of you who are just stuck in an emotional place and it's tough. That's why you got to order Jade's new book. Comes out first of the year, What No One Tells You About Money. You can pre-order it right now for $24.99. Get over$100 in free bonus items. RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store. What is somebody going to get out of this book?

29:05It's the check engine light for your money. When you get in your car and you see the check engine light, Ken, what do you do? You take it to the mechanic and they run that diagnostic and they give you the little code and tell you what's wrong. Oh, yeah. This is what that book does. It is going to run a diagnostic on you emotionally, and it's going to find out what's going wrong, what's been making things not run right for you. And then it's going to give you the code to fix it. And it's going to take you step by step to what you need to do. So it's a diagnostic. And you need that because you've been stuck and you haven't known why.

29:38And let me help you discover why so we can fix it. What do you think are top two or three? Yeah, I love a top five list. Okay. We don't have time for top five, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Top three emotions, negative emotions that our audience is facing in trying to get out of debt. I'm going to say frustration because with the baby steps, there's a lot of nuance and it's a lot to remember. It's a lot to think through, even though it sounds simple. I'm going to go with anger because of so many outside forces that are affecting our money, whether it be inflation, the housing market, administrations, the cost of insurance.

30:16All of those things that we didn't do, they're not our fault, but yet they're sitting here affecting our money. And then after that, I would say fear. When people choose to walk the baby steps, there is a fear of the unknown. They are not sure if I really sacrifice all of this, is it going to be worth it on the other side? They don't know. And so there's that first initial step of faith, that kind of leap that you have to take. And a lot of people are afraid to take it. Yeah, I agree. I think there's so many types of fear. Oh, and I talk about so many of them. You nailed the fear of the unknown.

30:49I think it's the biggest in any of our life. But, you know, sometimes it's just as simple as if you've heard Dave, if you hear one of us, but it's Dave, the one that just gets, he just gets fierce and he starts going, you don't see the inside of a restaurant, rice and beans, beans and rice. And some people are like, I'm just afraid to dial my life back like that. There's a real fear to that. Like, what are my kids going to say? What is my spouse going to say? And the idea of change, radical change, is fearful. So, hey, we hear you. We've done it. We're here for you. So we know what you're walking through.

31:23We're going to walk through it with you.

31:36You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies. And there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

32:19This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, Give them a call at 800-356-4282.

33:09All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Why Refi. You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. and Y-R-E-F-I helps people with defaulted private student loans refinance to a payment that fits their budget. If this is you, visit Y-R-E-F-I dot com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-I dot com slash Ramsey. It's not available in all states. All righty then. Today's question comes from Kate in Utah. She says, my 15-year-old daughter recently started babysitting, which has been a great first job for her. If she wants to buy something like concert tickets, she has to pay for it.

33:43This has really helped her with budgeting and being responsible. In addition to what she earns, we provide her with spending money. Should we be putting that money into her bank account as an allowance or should this be something she earns once a task is completed? Also, should we have her keep a set amount of minimum balance in her savings? Okay, so there's a couple of questions in here. we're talking about do we want allowance versus like paid wages basically like paid you know you get a wage for a service kind of thing um and do we kind of regulate how much she needs to have in her account at all times so i really am i love the idea of people working for money because that's the way it works in the real world ken um and part of this is experience for me too i i never grew up on allowance.

34:37And so I don't even know what that is, but I do know what it means to do a job and get paid for it. And I think there's a certain level of not only reality to that, but dignity to that. And I mimic that at home with my kids. They unload the dishwasher. With my kids, there are certain chores that they do that is just you being a citizen in this household. You don't get paid for it. It's just you being a good citizen. Those are things like making up your bed, keeping your room clean, that kind of thing. Then there are chores that you do that you get paid for. And so that's how they earn their money, or maybe some people would call it allowance.

35:10So I would implement something like that. There needs to be chores that she does in the house that are just shoo-in. But then there's other things that she can get paid for. And when it comes to what you are telling her she needs to keep in her savings, I would just teach give, save, spend. So whatever you have, you can give some of it, you can save a portion of it, and you can spend a portion of it. And you guys can decide what that portion is. Yeah. The only thing I would add to this, and I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but I don't know. Do it, Ken. Come on, dad. I really don't care.

35:47I think you teach all of that. And I have, but I got one kid and Jay knows all three of my kids. Well, I got one kid who is... He's saving, boy. He ain't letting go of that cash. Dude's got thousands, okay? From every financial gift, little odd job he's ever had. I got two other kids that don't have any money. Yeah. And I've taught them. I've taught them until I'm blue in the face. And guess who doesn't have a blue face today? Me. Well, you can't make them do it. That's what I would say. So teach them. And then I think that life is the best teacher. and so I've got one kid that just at some point is going to get tired of being broke and then the old man's a genius so I think as parents go I think sometimes we we do a little too much teach more importantly model yeah so they say this is what mom and I do or this is what your father and I do this is what I think you should do and here's why and then let it go let it go and just because because I'm telling you something you gotta learn it and it's not like teaching them to ride a bike per se.

36:54It has some parallels. You can hold, you can keep your hands on the outside of the seat, but you got to let it, yeah. And then when they fall down and skin their knees, they start to learn to ride the bike, and so they need to be broke. I mean, so broke it hurts. Can I tell you? So there you go. And you've got older kids. Yeah, I do. Well, you've got, they run the gamut. 20, 18, and 17. Yeah. My kids are younger. They're in it right now. And they need spending money. Yeah, because they got gas and games and dates. They got all the things. Can I tell you about my seven-year-old? Yes. All right.

37:30So I told you the kids, they get some money for doing things like unloading the dishwasher. And we were trying to teach my son, if you want something, you have to save up your money for it. And that takes time. So we were finally able to get him to save up his money. He wanted a fish tank to buy a goldfish. And so he finally saved up the$22. dollars. We went this weekend. That's awesome. He got the tank, the little pineapple that goes in it, two goldfish. Don't you know the next morning one of them was dead? Of course. And I was like, I felt so bad because he saved up his money. I mean, the goldfish itself is 32 cents.

38:02Can we not have a cheaper fish that has a longer life expectancy for all of us? I mean, it's 32 cents. All of the kids of the world were breaking their hearts. I know. Is there not a fish that's a little more durable? The goldfish. It's a 50-50 proposition. Every morning you wake up, you're stressed out. I hope the second one hangs on. That's all I hope. Don't hold your breath. Promise you he's not. Oh, man. We'll be here all day with the parent jokes. Matthew's up in Gainesville, Florida. Matthew, how can we help? Hi, I was wondering, should I stick with the trade I'm in during HVAC or should I switch to another trade like welding or building automation to make more money and do something more fulfilling?

38:43Oh, I think you might have just answered your question. Am I to understand that you're in HVAC, and if you were going to welding, you perceive that to be more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and it's certainly, you know for a fact, you can get paid more? Yes and no. I can make about the same. It's mainly the company I'm at, but I have difficulty trying to go to another company through the experience. Okay, so two things. One, I want you to adjust your phone. You sound like you're inside of a sock uh you know okay so talk to me talk back to me um it's only slightly better i'm having a hard time understanding you but we'll keep going okay so i asked you so you presented a question okay i want to hit you with the facts you said do i leave my trade of hvac and go into welding in order to make more money be more fulfilled i repeated it back to you and your reply was well, it'll be about the same amount of money, and really it's just the company I'm at.

39:49So it sounds like you're presenting something different. Do you hear what I'm hearing? Yes, sir. So I wonder if I were to wave my pencil in the air as if it were magical, and I'm doing right here on camera math, you can't see it, and I were to remove all of the bad stuff at this current company, would you be on the phone with me right now asking this question? Yes or no? No, sir. No, sir. No. No, sir. I would not. So it's not the trade. True or false? Correct. It's the place. True or false? Correct. All right. Give me something specific. What is really bothering you? I do about two hours of work, and then I sit on my phone the rest of the day just to get my hours so I can have money and pay bills.

40:41Okay. Now, Matthew, I am so glad you called today because I think there are literally millions of people that are going to hear this. And folks, I want to make sure you hear what Matthew just said. Matthew is feeling burned out. True or false, Matthew? True. And Matthew is feeling burned out, not because he's working too hard. He's not working enough, Jade. He's bored. So I want to call this out real quick and we'll move on. But I want this massive audience to hear what very few people will tell you that boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout. Human beings are wired. We are created by our creator to work, to progress, to overcome challenges.

41:27It is in our soul. So I just want to put that out there. You're right. And many of you are looking for a solve that you don't need to look for and you need to look inward and go, I'm bored out of my skull. And as a result, my soul is slowly seeping from my body. So just a real quick sermon there. We won't take an offering. But I just want to make sure that you're paying attention to what Matthew's paying attention to. So Matthew, here's the fix. I'm not against you, nor would I tell you not to move into welding. Because to me, as long as welding is creating a unique challenge, in other words, you've got the skill to do it, but it also is interesting, and it's enough of a challenge that you have to apply yourself, and you're actually working all day, then yes, move into welding.

42:17However, if you can find another HVAC company that actually works you during the day, doesn't overwork you, then that's the simple fix. So we don't want to run away from something. I want to run to something. And in this case, I don't think the something is another trade. I think it's a different company, and I'm going to stick with that. So, hey, thanks for being honest, and you can fix this real easy. Go somewhere where you can work, my man.

42:59Hey, y 'all. You know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays. And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi. From fresh produce to holiday favorites and charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all. and at prices that will help your family save big, up to$4 ,000 a year for a family of four. So do what I do for my family. Shop at Aldi first to save on groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday joy. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

43:40Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

43:57welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio alongside jade warshaw i'm ken coleman excited to be with you let's go to christopher in denver colorado christopher how can we help yeah merry christmas to both of you thank you for taking the call thank you and Merry Christmas to you. Yeah. So my wife and I, we have a daughter that's three years old and a son that's nine months old. And the day my son was born, my father-in-law tragically passed away, unfortunately. Oh my gosh. And, you know, the grief and trauma that's come along with that has led to many challenges for my immediate family.

44:33And, you know, in his will, he had And he had essentially said, you know, real estate's the best investment, and I would really prefer you to hold on to my home and use it as a rental property. Well, due to the grief that's been caused by this, you know, my wife consequently lost her job. And, you know, that$90 ,000 deficit is, you know, pretty substantial. So I have a financial and moral dilemma on my hands. And on one hand, I'd really like to, you know, obey his wishes. And on the other hand, you know, I have a family to look after. Okay, let me jump in for a second, because I think we've got to dig into some stuff.

45:22Your father-in-law died three years ago, is that right? No, this year in March. Oh, nine months. I wrote nine years old. Sorry, so nine months ago, your father-in-law died. Correct. And the grief from that led to your wife losing her job. Yeah, she was let go from her job. Can I ask, is there some type of unique circumstance on that? Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, without getting into too much detail, self-inflicted, you know. Okay, gotcha. All right. And so very, very traumatic to the point where she's not able to function at work. Certainly, yeah. Okay. And how much was she making? She was making$90 ,000.

46:02And how much do you make? Before taxes and bonuses, I make$120 ,000. Okay. And now let's move into, so what are the financial challenges? I'm assuming it's debt. Unfortunately, no. We've worked very hard to get out of debt, and that's kind of the reason why I'm— So you have no debt? Correct. All right, I'm going to walk you through this. So you have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund? I have had to drain it to, one, take care of my welcoming our new son. Two, taking care of the property that's in Texas, I should add. We're in Denver, and this is in Texas. Okay, good to know. And then do you have siblings that are also in the will on this property, or is it just you?

46:44It is just my wife. Oh, that's right, you're your wife. So what's the property worth if you were to sell it? Yeah, you know, I've gotten, my real estate agent says about$325 if we were to put, you know, X, Y, and Z into the home. without putting in the upgrades into the home. We're probably looking at just south of$300 ,000. Okay, so what would your wife walk away with if we sold it as is? Let me get that number for you. We're looking at about, you know, at$325 ,000,$303 ,000. Without, we're looking at about$278 ,000. So you guys would walk away with$278K. Okay. What happened with the birth of your child to where it drained your entire emergency fund?

47:37That was not the part that drained it. Fortunately, it was hiring movers, getting us physically down there to go through the home. You know, it's not my home. Oh, I understand. So, you know, I have to be very sensitive to my wife and allow her to, you know, take the time to go through his belongings. You know, all of his home is basically in my home. How much was in your emergency fund? $25 ,000. You drained it? Holy smokes. Well, we have about$4 ,000 remaining, but the repairs on the home would cost us upwards of$23 ,000. All right. Let me cut through for a second. So it sounded like, it sounds like, and I think I'm right, obviously you're thinking, hey, we're feeling a$90 ,000 deficit year over year.

48:25if I can get my hands on some of this money, I can invest it and kind of make up that loss. That way she can take the time that she needs and it's not going to continue to have such a drain on us. Right. Almost. But my what I would like to do is we purchased our home in 2022. Our interest rate is seven point one to five percent, seven point one to five percent. And, you know, it's my opinion that by refinancing, you know, we can substantially lower our mortgage about$2 ,100. On the flip side of that, you know, after speaking to property managers in the area, it's expected that we could get roughly$2 ,200 in rent for the property.

49:07And that's before fees, taxes, etc. For your father-in-law's property? Correct. So, let me tell you what I'm thinking. I'm going to be 100 % honest with you. I don't think this is your decision to make a loan in a vacuum, number one. And if this loss has been what it has been, my guess is that she might not be down to ride on this just yet. Is she? Where is she at? Well, let me finish the loop here. And then the final thing is, if you do sell this property, and because I want to say this on the front end, the only reason that I would say to do this right now is simply because of the location. I'm not uh it for me it's not a financial thing of like we have to recoup this money doing a bunch of math for me it's more like hey you can't really manage this uh from where you are in Denver and we've seen that you've already shelled out far more money than you need to going back and forth and whatnot and we would tell nobody to be a long-term landlord in that way so that if if you sell it that would be my reason why and I would say how can we sell this is is the mother-in-law alive?

50:16Who do we need to talk to to make this feel right? But it would not be for the reasons that you're saying. So I just want to put that out there because it feels... I appreciate your opinion. I do. And fortunately, I completely agree with you. This is my wife's decision. The reality is I'm a finance guy of the home, right? Yeah, I hear that. I can hear it in your numbers. Yeah. And, you know, she is. We're doing everything that we can to keep this property because I do want to honor those wishes. OK, so let's so there's so that's what we need to be focusing on. It feels like you called and said, should we sell it?

50:59But in your your wife is saying, I don't want to sell it. Is that true? No, she wants to do what's best for us. Well, what do you think is best? I would sell it. I would sell it too. I would sell it because of what Jay just said. It's a burden for you guys. You've already blown a bunch of money. I'd sell it as is and invest that money, build your emergency fund back up and invest it, and let's do something good with it. Let's walk the baby steps out with whatever money comes in. Or if you really did feel like, I think the way you framed it earlier was, why he wanted you to keep it was because real estate for him was the best investment.

51:40So in my mind, and this is just, I'm spitballing. I'm not saying you must do this, but if I sold it, what feels like would be keeping with his spirit or with something that he wanted the money to be used on would be maybe, okay, maybe you do buy an investment property. Maybe you pay off your mortgage because that's a property and now that's another asset. Do you see what I'm saying? so roll it back into real estate whether it be yours or you know whatever that is and that way you're keeping the memory alive you're keeping his values alive but you're also doing the right thing for your family

52:45The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited-time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just$10 a month for your first two months. Then, only$25 a month for unlimited talk, text, and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today.

53:23That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

53:47all right lily is up next in kansas city lily how can we help hi i have been with my partner for four years I didn't feel silly when I was here. Wow. Lily, you just broke up really bad. So we didn't hear that part. We just heard you were with your partner and then it went into like some ghost sound. It was haunted. Sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Really clear. Okay. So start that whole thing over. Okay. I've been with my partner for four years. Okay. I moved out here. We live in a rural area outside of Kansas City and found out this year that he does not want to get married. Okay. Which is a problem for me because I've been investing into his household and into this property for the last four years.

54:34Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tell us what that means specifically. How much have you invested? So he owns his own home and he bought the house in 2012 at an interest rate of like 3%, crazy low. and he should have this paid off in about seven years and when i say investing i mean i have been i i pay for things living here i know i'm asking for how much and like what a kitchen a bathroom what give us specifics i apologize it's not that not that deep um i pay for things in this household the only way he will let me pay for things is if i buy groceries, pay for like our bedding household items. Well, that's not investing.

55:25Okay. I'm tracking now, but that's not investing in the house. It's not investing in the house, but here's my problem. Here's the dilemma. When he told me he wouldn't marry me, he set up a revocable trust and, um, leaving everything to me, you know, when he passes away, my problem is is that i'm living paycheck to paycheck buying the things that i'm paying for the house and he pays the mortgage pays the bills and won't let me be a true partner hold on lily i feel like we're focusing on the wrong thing yes her blame jade i'll get out of your way because your brain's about to explode on the revocable trust but but lily i'm just going to speak to the relationship side okay here's what i just heard uh i moved out here four years ago going to be with this guy.

56:15He doesn't want to marry me. And he made it very clear. But as a consolation prize, he created an irrevocable trust. Jade will get to that in a second. I don't, that to me is just weird. It's so weird. But then you kept, then you went, but he won't let me pay for things and he won't let me. Why are you still trying? Why are you even in the house? This, this is, this relationship is over. Right? Right? I mean, yeah, in my mind, And the trust is revocable, by the way, not irrevocable. Sorry, it doesn't matter. The whole thing is weird. And tell him, never mind, because if you don't want to marry me, why would you leave all your stuff to me?

56:52What does that mean? To me, that's just a weird thing. It proves this guy's a weirdo. And I'm not trying to be unkind. And I'm not trying to be insensitive. But you called us, so we're automatically on Team Lily. Let me just tell you, that for me is very manipulative, too, because it's this way of keeping you on the hook forever. Exactly. That without marrying you, why would you say, I won't marry you, but I'm going to leave you after I die all of my major assets? I'm going to tell you what this is. I'm going to tell you what it is. This is friends with benefits. And the benefit is he wants you, but he don't want to marry you.

57:27This is sleeping with the enemy. Remember that? But now he's going to give you his whatever just so that you forget. No, that's weird. This guy does not want to be married to you in a union with you. No, but he's trying to keep you trapped. benefits that come with this and it would make me feel gross. I feel gross for you. It does. And even being part of the revocable trust, it feels like I'm being placated. Say no and break up with him and leave. When did this start, Lily? When did you find out he doesn't want to marry you and when did he tell you about this weird trust thing? I don't know. Oh boy.

58:01This year, early this year, and he set up the trust about two months later because I I told him that I didn't, he says he feels like he doesn't want to get married because the government, it gives the government too much power over his assets. I need him to stop. Bullcrap. This guy's such a bad liar. So let me tell you, when he told, when you said, why aren't we getting married? And he said, I don't want to marry you. Did you give him some, what I want to know is, did you give him some sort of ultimatum? Did you tell him he was, you were leaving? And then this was the response to that. That is correct.

58:31You did? Yes. Well, why are you still with him? Because he created the revocable trust in that moment. That's my point. You let it work. It worked. You didn't give him an ultimatum and do anything about it. You threatened. And then he went, I see your threat. And I raise you. And I'm going to raise you some manipulation. And you said that. I know I'm right. I've been right for about three or four minutes into this call. I needed to hear it from someone that was unobjective. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Break up with him. If you were my sister, I would be like, you have no respect for yourself if you stay in this relationship.

59:07And I agree with Ken. And now let me just hit on just a personal note, you as a human being, there is a sunk cost here, right? You're like, man, I love this guy. I spent four years, four years is a long time. And you got up and you moved to be with this person. There is a lot there. And I understand that you're probably like, can I salvage some of this? because if I can't salvage this, then you have to come to terms with whatever that means to you about you. Like, I can't believe I fell for this guy or I can't believe, right? And that's very, very difficult to do. And my guess is that's probably why, even though he said he wouldn't marry you, you continued on up until the point of this call is there was some part of you that probably was like, maybe there's something here I can salvage.

59:53Maybe there's still a chance that this could turn around. And I totally get that. And Ken and I are not making fun of you or knocking you. No, not at all. We are 100 % trying to validate you. Good. It's hard to walk away from a household that I've put so much time and energy into because now I walk away with nothing. Well, you had an expectation of what that was going to mean. Well, she had an expectation of what that would bring. I know, but I'm going to tell you why I disagree. And this is Team Lily. Lily, that's the wrong thing to say. You've been telling yourself, I'm walking away with nothing.

1:00:23I'm going to tell you, you're walking away with something and it's your dignity. That's facts. Come on. That's facts. You got to know, you got to rewire this message. The narrative is, I'm not going to let this guy manipulate me and rob me of my dignity. I'm walking away with my dignity intact, and that's a big deal. And I'm going to make my life better. And I'm going to focus on getting myself to a place where I'm not living paycheck to paycheck. And I'm going to get myself healthy and deal with what Jade is saying. And she's real here. I mean, this hurts. I'm not minimizing this. This really stinks.

1:00:57but there is healing on the other side of this and i think there's love real love yes on the other side of this because here's the thing and and i i'm not poo-pooing any anybody's journey ken sometimes we have to poo-poo i'm just saying when when the real man comes lily he's gonna know and it ain't gonna take him four years to figure it out i'm gonna tell you that right now that's true and you'll know and lily since we're playing armchair quarterback here it's the nature of our job. All right. We're not going to focus on the past. We're going to set our mind on the things of the future and we're going to heal and we're going to move forward.

1:01:33Okay. However, for Lily and all of the other people listening and watching, please don't uproot your life and move to someplace for somebody who's not willing to change their life for you. Thank you, Ken. Let me say it again. Do not uproot your life for somebody who's not willing to change their life. That's right. If they change their life in that they say we are all in and getting married, then I will uproot. But I got to tell you, a lot of manipulative dudes out there. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. So, Lily, get out of there. What do you let's let's just say we got we got about a minute.

1:02:10It's a real quick answer. Would you have moved to Kansas City for any other reason than this guy?

1:02:20No. No. No. Okay. So here's the deal. And I know there's a lot, so I'm not going to ask you anything else because I think you've got to grieve this. But I would tell you that the reason I asked you that is I want that to be the resounding thing you take away from this call. You only move there for this guy. You know this guy is not your guy. So now let's begin the mindset of where do I want to restart my life? And this can be exciting. It can be healthy. Dare I say it can be full of fun adventure. but it starts with going, nope, I don't want the trust. I don't want you. I'm out. Jade, final word.

1:02:55Yes, men and women, let's stop putting ourselves in these positions where there is this power indifference, especially when it's not a marriage. This business of moving in with somebody and it's their place and they hold all the cards and you're kind of at their mercy for them to let you in. This business needs to stop. Live at your own house. There's nothing wrong with living at your own house and dating someone. And at the end of the day, you go home to your house that you own by yourself until you're married.

1:04:01Hey guys, you know those too good to pass up holiday promos? And that's why I recommend DeleteMe, your digital cleanup crew. The DeleteMe privacy pros dig through hundreds of these data broker sites, they scrub your info, and they keep it gone, which means fewer weird robocalls, fewer spam texts, and it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's an annual subscription. And Ramsey listeners can get 20 % off those annual plans at joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey, code Ramsey.

1:04:57all right if you're listening to the show and you want to be better with your money but you haven't started, the question is, why haven't you started doing something about it? You know, there's a problem, but why haven't you started doing it? It's a big question, right? And I think that, you know, I've said this for years, Jay, that we humans, I being at the top of the list, we would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Right? Just think about that. Because we kind of know the miserable and we're talking about financial misery here in this particular situation. The devil we know. That's right.

1:05:30And so Dave has said this too. It's like people finally change where they go, oh, I actually am sick and tired of being sick and tired. In other words, I now would rather be uncomfortable than be miserable. Here's one example from some of our Ramsey Baby Step Facebook community folks. This is Shay. When I got sick and tired of giving my hard-earned money to paying credit card interest, I felt like I was paying twice for all the items I was purchasing. I was fed up with rising interest rates and playing the games of shuffling all my debts to 0 % interest cards and not getting ahead. I love that one.

1:06:06Julia said, when I realized how much money we actually take home in a month and are still living paycheck to paycheck, it was ridiculous. Never again. Wow. All right. And how about this one? Joseph said, 1 ,000 % the moment was when we had our daughter, our first child, and my buddy who makes half of what we make is able to have his wife stay at home with their kid where we can't afford to. Now, that's the ouch moment. Like, that's where you're like, something's really wrong. Wow. So, really unbelievable. We've got a link in the show notes at ramsysolutions.com. slash start. And this is where you can take, it's free, takes just a few moments.

1:06:50It's called the Get Started Assessment. And it'll allow you to get a real nice snapshot of where you are and a customized money plan that will allow you to say, oh, I can make a difference. Again, RamseySolutions.com slash start. And send us your comment. Those of you that have had that I've had it moment. Have you had one? Me? Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think for me, it was, of course, this is so long ago. I got to like, I got to like - Dig it up. Go back into it. But the moment for us was we were two incomes, double income, no kids. And the debt that we had accumulated trying to get started in our life, we were like absolutely struggling.

1:07:37We had stuff, but we were miserable because we were living paycheck to paycheck, and we were living more than the paycheck. And I think for me it scared me. So my I had it was, ooh, I don't like this feeling. No control over my financial life and the control issue, actually, that was the issue. But anyway, we'd love to hear your comments of your sick and tired moments, ramsleysolutions.com. We've got a link in the show notes for the assessment. And again, it's a wonderful little tool, so go check that out. Boise, Idaho is where we go next, and Evan is joining us there. Evan, how can we help? Hey there.

1:08:11I got a question for you about credit card cash back. Hit me. I know, of course, you guys' opinions on that, but I have, I think, a unique situation. Here it is. Evan believes, folks, that he's got a scenario that we have not heard before. This is breaking news. Evan, take it away. What is the loophole? All right. So I own a business where I buy and sell used camera equipment. Now, with the volume that I'm doing, I'm making about$3 ,000 a month in just cash back. It's never all the money is always backed by cash in a high yield savings account. Pay it off all immediately as soon as the payments post and then just reap the rewards.

1:09:01Never heard that. We have never heard that put that way before. How much is in your high yield? I'm kidding. About$60 ,000. Oh, yeah. So you've got plenty. I mean, there's a couple of schools of thoughts that we could go down the road of. Let me start. And I'm not going to lie. This is not my favorite argument. And I'll tell you why. But it is an argument. When you really think about how credit card points are derived and what they come from, it is really off the backs of who they're hoping will fail at the system. The people who won't make their payments on time, the people who will default. That's where the ability to do these points are coming from.

1:09:49And I'm just saying it. I'm not saying it has to be your ethics, but from an ethical point of view, a lot of people don't like that. They don't like the fact that one person has to fail for another person to win. So that's kind of one of the arguments you could say. It's the gross factor. It's the gross factor that you could say for that. Now, that being said, there are lots of causes in the world, Ken, that people can say, well, I don't use coffee if it's not fair trade. And I don't do this if it's right, right? And you get to pick your causes if that's not one of them. Let's not forget the sweater you're wrapping right now.

1:10:23Some people, because of the values, won't go to Disney. we're not gonna go to Disney World. Listen, I'm going. I said some people. You know, so my point is, my point there, Evan, is I'm not trying to like saddle you up with guilt, but I'm just trying to present the option for you to think about something. The same way you presented something to say, hey, you guys may not have thought about this scenario. I want you to think about that scenario. And I'll really just leave it at that because I'm never going to, and you know this calling, and I'm never gonna tell somebody to go into debt. Like, period.

1:10:56I'm just not. Do I believe you when you say that you are, you know, paying it every month and you've got the money backed there? Yeah, I do believe that. Do I also believe that if something happened and your business did not make the money you thought it would, would it cost you maybe a thousand or so bucks? Yeah, probably. Could you absorb that? Yeah, you could. But would it be better if you didn't? Yes, it would. So I think about things like that. I also think about the idea that when you use credit and when you use plastic, you are going to spend more. That's what the data tells us. Depending on the type of purchase depends on the percentage more that you will spend.

1:11:38And there's also something to that. Like your operating costs would probably be lower if you were paying cash versus knowing that you were getting points. So these are just things for you to be thinking of. judging by your demeanor when you called in I don't think you're going to change it but I also am not going to lose sleep over it and neither will you yeah I mean Evan what's the Evan what's the total max you could put on that credit card that you're paying off every month 22 ,000 yeah could you see a scenario where you would be tempted or you could be tempted to use some of that credit and not pay it off.

1:12:16No, I hate that. I'm scared of it. But yet you have it. It's just, that's what they gave them. Like for instance, I'm scared and this is, I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm very scared of snakes. Okay. I, because of that, I would never have a snake in my house. You say, well, it would be in the, uh, what do you call those things? What do you put a snake in? Is it like a, uh, aquarium? I wouldn't put it in there because Because to me, if I'm scared of the snake, even though it's in the aquarium and I would never – like, to me, it just makes zero sense as to why if I'm scared to death of credit, I would put something in place where you could potentially get and use the credit.

1:12:54He's getting enough of a benefit in his mind from it that for him it's worth the fear factor. Yeah, so we're not going to change your mind. So, Evan, we're not going to change your mind. I'm not sure why you called, right? Sure. I'm curious to see what your explanation is. Okay, here's my real answer. You're not going to stump us. Like, that's our explanation. I just don't think you're going to go for it. The snake one was a new one. I don't like it. And I used it because I used this one last week. So I'm going to go back to the ice cream. Go back to the other one. Ice cream. Okay. I have a real love of ice cream.

1:13:20And ice cream is not good for me because most of the time I eat ice cream is not at two o 'clock on a Saturday. My ice cream love tends to come out after seven o 'clock. And we shouldn't eat anything after seven o 'clock. Mostly should not eat ice cream for me. Bubble guts. It's terrible. Yeah. And so, Evan, if I – but I don't have any ice cream in my house. Because if I did, and I used to keep ice cream in my house, I would always have some type of a pint or a gallon in there. And guess what happens? I don't want to eat ice cream. I don't want to eat ice cream. Evan, I don't want to eat ice cream.

1:13:51I don't like the way ice cream makes me feel in the morning when I weigh myself. I don't want it. I don't want it. But you love the way it tastes. Gosh, it's right there. It's right there. I just think if you're scared of eating ice cream and what it will do to you after hours, don't have the ice cream in the freezer. It's going to take something happening for him to change his mind. And I hope it never does. He probably is recording this and he's going to tell his buddies he got us. Well, he didn't get us. No, I know. We just have different values. Different beliefs. Yeah. I love...

1:14:35If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand, and I'd prefer you get out of debt the old-fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front.

1:15:21Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55 ,000 people across the nation settle over$600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to GuardianLIT.com slash Ramsey. That's GuardianLIT.com slash Ramsey. Paid endorsement, attorney advertising, Guardian Litigation Group LLP. Not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review our website terms for more information.

1:16:28and you can get a head start by downloading EveryDollar right now. It builds a personalized plan and coaches you to find extra money so that you can put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. Just answer a few questions. You're going to find thousands on average in just the first 15 minutes. Did you hear that? Yeah, I heard it. Folks, we're not making that up. That's real data. So EveryDollar has all the same great budgeting features, but now it's the personalized plan and the coaching to stay with you day in, day out so that you can win with your money. Don't go another year feeling like you've been feeling.

1:17:01Broke and stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Mitchell joins us in Chicago, Illinois. Mitchell, how can we help? Yeah, hey guys. I could use some help and your opinions on a car purchasing decision coming up here. All right. Tell us what's happening. Yeah, I'll set the stage a little bit here. Our household income is about$200 ,000 a year, and we're debt-free outside of the mortgage. We've got$30 ,000 in the emergency fund, but the wife's car is going to the dump. It needs a new engine, and to make a long story short on that front, we're just going to go car shopping this weekend for a used car.

1:17:46The writing was kind of on the wall. I had saved, we've probably got about 15 grand set aside already for a new car. So that's a good starting point. But as I've been kind of digging in and figuring out what we want, of course, you know, the creep is coming in and we're, you know, starting to look at ones that are closer to 25 or maybe up to like 30 grand out the door. I'm not mad at it. So, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a long time listener and there's just like this under, I'm the nerd in the relationship and there's this guilty part of my conscience that's like, do we really pull$15 ,000 out of our emergency fund to get us up to$30 ,000 in cash that we'll pay out the door?

1:18:31I wouldn't do that because it's not an emergency per se. It's an emergency for you to get a car. It's not an emergency for you to spend$30K. What I don't have a problem with, I don't have a problem with you guys spending$30K. I think you need to save cash to do it and not touch an emergency fund for it. I would say that. Yeah. The only wrench that gets thrown into it is that the life's car is burning oil. and I just got done going through the dealership and verifying with an independent mechanic that it's going to need a new engine. Understood, Mitchell, but nothing stops you from getting what you can afford and then upgrading later.

1:19:07Nothing stops you from, do you see what I'm saying? Or, and I have driven cars, I feel like I'm the expert on driving cars at burnt oil. How long can, I understand that it's going to eventually need a new engine. Is there some kind of estimate on how much longer this car might last? well just kind of talking with people and stuff it's burning about a quart and a half to two quarts every thousand miles so you know can i keep putting an oil in it and maybe get another couple months out of it maybe it's try it all right let's press pause it's winter and no no you don't have nothing to be nervous about to jade's point you got 15k so go with me for a moment mitchell all right so let's take what you just said and by the way i've done that while i was saving up to buy a car jade i would go to like a big warehouse store and buy a box of oil and i check my oil every two or three days um in fact joe hankin is running the board today joe you remember when i was we were doing the show in gainesville georgia wdun you remember uh i'm driving uh i forget what i was driving but i was checking my oil almost every two days to make sure that you know i wasn't going to blow the engine up and you can keep an engine going if the only problem is burning oil you can keep it going so here's my point Mitchell uh oil is a lot cheaper than than than buying a$30 ,000 car until we have the money for it absolutely so let me change gears here no pun intended I can't believe I just said that that's horrible I'm disappointed it's terrible that was all I didn't mean to do that all right Mitchell how many months would it take for you to save up the additional 15 to get a$30 ,000 car somewhere in the range of three to four i mean the 15 is the gap on the emergency i would go buy a bunch of oil yep and i would check that oil every three or four days make it last forever yeah make it last keep just keep it running oil's cheap and then how would you so mitchell let's play this out let's assume you do what i tell you to do and you nurse this thing and you three months from now you've got the additional 15k and you go buy a 30 000 car that you guys have really got your eye on right now.

1:21:18How would that feel?

1:21:23That would feel really good, assuming that's how it plays out. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If something doesn't blow, then here. Wait, wait, wait. Can I jump in here? Because I hear what is in my book, which is the difference between rational and irrational fears. Oh, there it is. You have a fear, Mitchell, and your fear is very, very vague. the fear in it but it's stopping you from doing something that we're telling you hey there really is no there's no nothing bad can happen from you playing this out further no because if it blows up he's got a car he's got plenty of money to go get a car but what instead you're letting this very vague fear of well something could happen with the car the car could blow up it could end up on the side of the road it could but you're not telling us something very very real and specific that you're specifically scared of are you scared that your wife's going to be in the car with the kids.

1:22:11She's going to be pulled over on the side of the road. You're going to be stuck at the office. You won't be able to come get her. Tell us specifically what you're afraid of, because then we can solve for it. But if you're going to keep it floating in the air as this big, vague monster that nobody can fix, then we can't help you. So tell us specifically what you think is going to happen. That's definitely what you just kind of outlined there, Jane. That's the real fear. We're in the dead of winter in Chicago right now, and if she's dropping them off in the morning or something and that engine blows, then we're finding ourselves in a bit of a pickle and down to one vehicle.

1:22:46Hold on, let's play it out. What would you do? Your wife calls you and exactly this scenario happens. I'm on the side of the road. The kids are in the car. They're going to be late for school. I'm in my pajamas. I don't want anybody to see me. What would you do immediately? I mean, we'd be going new car shopping. No, that's not what you would do. In the moment. In the moment. What would you say to your wife? We're role playing. What would you say to her? Yeah, I'm on the way in the truck. Yep. And how long would it take you? Play out the worst possible scenario. If you were... Yeah, love this.

1:23:21How long does it take you to get to her? Half hour at the most. Okay, is she and the kids going to freeze to death in that time? Nope. Okay, would you get fired from your job for having to take off and go rescue her? Nope. Okay. In Chicago, aren't you kind of, you know, you keep blankets in the trunk. You wear a coat when you go out no matter what, right? Great point. We could have a contingency for said problem. Yeah. Oh. And I think, you know, the real crux of why I wanted to call you guys is like more on the front of just the emergency. It's not an emergency. Like, does this warrant that? No, it does not.

1:23:59It does not warrant you taking from the emergency fund because it's not an emergency. This is not urgent. We know that you can get, even if it's not three or four months to Ken's point, you know you have a little bit of time. So it's not urgent. Well, you know, number one, and you got a$15 ,000 sinking fund. Yeah, it's not unexpected. You just now want a$30 ,000 car. So you've actually done everything that we would teach you to do. You knew this was coming. You actually are the nerd, Mitchell. I could walk out of the studio, put you in the chair, and you could have answered your own question. Yeah.

1:24:30It's not an emergency. And your fear, while being now, it's validated. We just solved it for you so it doesn't have to stop you from moving forward with Ken's plan. Hand warmers, wool blankets. And a charged cell phone will go a long way. A charged cell phone, maybe AAA membership if for some reason you couldn't get there. There's a lot of things here. I'm just telling you, I want you to get the$30 ,000 car, and so does Jay. So we think it's three to four months of, and I promise you, I'm not the only person that has nursed an engine. And by the way, the engine won't blow if it has oil in it. I inherited a...

1:25:07Well, we know that. I inherited a 1988 Nissan Pulsar from my sister. It was her first car, and then when she stopped driving it, I got it. A Pulsar. The transmission was so messed up that you had to let it sit before it could go in reverse. You had to let it warm up for like 10 minutes, and I had to pour oil in it almost every day. Yeah. And you can do it. Is it obnoxious? Yes. Yes, but is it better than taking$15 ,000 out of your emergency fund? I hate touching my emergency fund. Never. Never. I love it. Never. Mitchell, you're a good man. You got two options. Go buy the$15 ,000 car and then upgrade later, like Jade said, or wait three or four months and go get you a case of oil.

1:26:26www.feyy.tv And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card, which says, Debt is normal, be weird, right on the front. So every time you swipe it this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path. To spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover. And to be free from debt traps. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to open your smart bundle and get your Ramsey Be Weird debit card today.

1:27:17That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

1:27:35Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're so happy that you're with us. Jade's going to take lead on your money questions, and if you are feeling burned out or you just stressed out, no life balance as it relates to your work, I help people win in those areas as well. We did a survey recently, Jade, where we heard from the tribe. They said, we are feeling that way. And that affects your money, by the way. So here to help on those specific questions as well. Laura is joining us now in Hartford, Connecticut.

1:28:09Laura, how can we help today? All righty. I've got a residential real estate property that my mother owns in Brooklyn, New York. It's currently in a trust. And when she passes, it will be inherited by myself and my three siblings. Hey, Laura. Laura, can we see if we can have you adjust your phone so we can understand you a little bit better? Sure, sure. Is that better? Oh, so much. Thank you. Great, great. So the property is worth about$2 million. It's a residential property. It's got two rental units now, and it's being rented. I am debt-free and ready to retire in 2026. My husband's already retired.

1:28:54I've got two siblings that, when we inherit this property, would like to knock it down and develop it into a four-apartment building, which I'm guessing would run about$4 million, which means each or else would be about$1 million in debt. Oh, boy. And I've got two other siblings that just want to sell it and divide the profits by four. How do I convince the two that want to sell it, I mean, sorry, that want to invest it, that that's a terrible idea? If I heard you correctly, I'm just asking, is it three to two, you plus two against the other two? It's myself and another who want to settle and two others that want to.

1:29:39Oh, two on two. So we're split down the middle. Right. And they either want to develop it or just keep it and divide the rental income amongst the four of us, which is nothing. And the assumption is that everybody should just be willing to go into a million dollars of debt to do this. Exactly. Well, that's absurd. Or become landlords, right? Because they've given you two options, develop it or we just rent it. Right. And the rental income, it'd probably be$1 ,000 each a month, which in my mind is worthless. Well, if the two siblings were so willy-nilly to say, hey, just fork over a million dollars, then why don't you tell them to fork over the money to buy you out?

1:30:25They don't have it and I don't have it. No, no. There you go. No, but – No, I think, Jade, you're actually on to something. So, Laura – It's the same thing. If it were me, I would say two things, maybe three. We'll count them in a second. Here's what I would do. Number one, I would make the case that what you're asking me to do is to go into debt, and I don't do debt. So it's off the table. You've got to make it super clear to them where they're like, oh, she's like, doesn't appear to be movable on this. It's just, I'm not doing it at this stage of my life. Hubs is retired. I'm just not going to go into debt for scenario one.

1:31:04Secondly, I'm going to get out of here real quick. Second, I would say I'm not interested in getting$1 ,000 a month. That's like peanuts for me at this stage of my life. Right. Okay. And then three, I'll tell you what I would do. If you want to take out a loan, which their option number one is to take out debt to knock this down. Yes. They can take out money and pay you your share of the$2 million. Right, which is less than the debt that they would take to develop it. Because if they want to take out debt, they're going to do it anyway. Yeah. And you're not on the hook. So you go, give me my money.

1:31:40Let me get out of the way. Here's what I don't want to do. I don't want my value system to create conflict. So I've told you what I'm not going to do. Let me tell you what I will do. Here's my cut of the$2 million. Yes. And so you, a part of your whole debt structure, you give me my cut, and guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to walk into the sunset with my husband, and we're going to be in Cancun, and we'll talk to you at Thanksgiving. Yeah. That's what I would do. Make the math make sense for them because, and it's the end of the day. It won't. It's the end of the day, so correct me if I'm wrong, Ken, but I see$2 million and I see four people.

1:32:13So each of you has got$500 ,000 in this. That's right. So are you telling me that they would rather fork over$1 million apiece instead of$500 ,000 apiece? Or do nothing and divide the rent and be landlords for the rest of our lives, which is a terrible idea. It's horrible. But now let me ask you this. they can't do any of this without you, correct? Does it take a majority rule? Or, I mean, excuse me, is it a unanimous decision, or how's this going to go down? I believe it has to be all four need to agree. It does. So, Laura, did you ever see the movie Braveheart? No, but I think I need to. You've got to go watch Braveheart tonight.

1:32:54There's the penultimate scene, okay? And in this history, I'm not going to tell you the whole story, But there's a scene where the English army is, they're on horseback and they have a huge army and they're coming after the Scots. And the Scots have got axes and, you know, it's just, it's just a little rabble rouser group led by Mel Gibson. And Mel's got a plan. Okay. And he knows that the British are going to be overconfident and they're coming at him. Okay. Long story short, he's got these long poles. They've cut trees and they're waiting for these horses to get close enough so they can lift up these sharp things.

1:33:29and here's what he says to the guys. The horses are thundering down on him and they're freaking out and he goes, hold. And they get closer and he goes, hold. And so my message to you is, Laura, it's a unanimous decision, hold the line. I gave you what I would say. Option one, nope. Option two, nope. Option three is, give me my 500 grand and you all go bananas. I'm not gonna hold up your vision at all. I think it's the only thing they're going to want to hear, and I think it's the only thing they should hear from you. So no to the debt and developing it. No to being a rental and yes to give me my$500K.

1:34:13Hold, hold, hold. It doesn't have to be ugly. Just, guys, you can do this. I'm not stopping you. But give me my money. It takes$500K. Right. You're willing to go into a million. Give me$500K. Thank you. I'm super passionate about that. I think, Laura, that's the play. Jade? I agree. I agree. Yeah. You got all the cards. They can't do it without you. So make it super simple. Yeah, they can't do it without me. And by the way, here's the messaging. I want you guys to be able to do this. I would start with, hey, you know the plan? I thought through it. I want you all to be able to do it. Knock it down.

1:34:50Rebuild it. It's going to be fabulous. But do it without me. One caveat. I don't have the stomach for it my husband and I got a different plan for our life wants you to be able to do it and so here's the easy thing buy me out and I'm cheering you on I would frame it that way and again I don't know how they're going to react but I think it's a good deal listen I've already said it and I agree with you so Laura don't let any family pressure or any of that change your mind because you're going to end up resenting them yeah I agree with them I already do I was going to say, somebody's the ringleader in all this, and it's not you.

1:35:27Who's the ringleader? My older brother who thinks this was a family. It's a home that our great-grandparents were born in, and it needs to stay in the family. Got it, got it, got it. Oh, by the way, it is. It's staying in the family. You're not holding any of that up. Hey, brother, it's staying in the family. Do your thing. It's just going to take$500 ,000 over here in my bank account, and it's going to be super simple.

1:35:53Thank you.

1:36:24Many of you listen to the Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:37:21buying or selling your home is a very big deal and there's a lot of misinformation out there you know the clickbait stuff on social media you know articles things that are designed to kind of pull you in to make it a bad decision and we are always going to be here at the ramsey show to help you make sense of the latest trends and make good decisions so just to give you a snapshot the median home prices have been holding steady around$424 ,000. In October, about one in five saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate. Mortgage rates obviously dipped slightly in October, but rates are unpredictable, and they move up and they move down.

1:38:04So we're not making decisions based on the rate. It's when are we ready to buy based on our cash position to be able to have a good down payment and to be able to afford where you are. So this might be a great time for you. Don't get stuck in the headlines. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can go to RamseySolutions.com slash market. That's RamseySolutions.com slash market. Let's go to May, who joins us in Raleigh, North Carolina. May, how can we help? Hi, sir. How are you doing today? Great. How are you? Good. The reason I'm calling is I wanted to ask, so me and my husband are looking at buying a house next year.

1:38:44And we're looking at buying a house between$350 ,000 to$400 ,000. And we have about a$200 ,000 nest egg for the down payment. So my question is, does it ever make sense to put down more than 20 % even if you'd be able to afford the mortgage with that 25 % of your take home rule taken into account? Yes. So I want to make sure I understand. So you could, you're obviously putting down almost half. Did I understand that correctly? Yes. Yes. And you're saying you don't need to put down half, you could put down 20 % and it would still be okay for you. Exactly. My thing, my only, the only thing that I might say no to that would be if you have consumer debt and if that money would be better spent paying off your debt ahead of time.

1:39:29But if you don't have consumer debt, then I'm like, yeah, because the best way to pay for a house is if you could put everything down, right? So I would love if you could get as close to that as possible. And if that means putting down almost 50%, that's amazing. So do you have any other debt to speak of? No, we're totally debt-free. No student loans, no car debts, no debt whatsoever. So the only other thing would be if it's a place that really needs a lot of renovation or a lot of work, you might want to reserve some of that money to do some renovations on the house. Is there anything like that to speak of?

1:40:04No, but that was part of my question was we have an emergency fund outside of that$200 ,000. that's about five months of expenses. But I've heard that you're supposed to have another like bucket of savings once you buy a house for things that could just naturally break. So I wasn't sure how you figure out how much of that, like how much you should save for a house for just like in case the HVAC system or roof or something like that. No, I mean, that's what your emergency fund is for. And this keeps coming up, Ken. We've talked about this every hour of the show today. Emergency fund is for things that are unexpected, urgent and necessary.

1:40:35And so if that happens to be your AC going out in the middle of summer, then yeah, you dip into the emergency fund and pay it off. If you've got five months of expenses, if it would make you feel better to have six months, then go ahead and do that. but yeah I don't I think that you're good to go I think that what's happening here and this is your choice to make with your husband but I think what's happening is$200 ,000 is a lot of money and in your mind you're just weighing out the opportunity cost of do I want to put all of this on the mortgage or could there be something else that this money should go towards is there right and I think it's smart that you're just weighing out all your options so if there were something that you were going to do with that money other than put it on the house, in your mind, what would it be?

1:41:22So really the only other thing I could think of is putting it in the marketing and letting it grow. So that way, maybe in the future we have the ability to buy like a rental property with putting more than 50 % down or trying to buy it fully in cash while only having a mortgage on the house. So we don't have any hard set plans. It would just be, does it make more sense to let it grow in the market and then maybe buy a real estate property in full later for something like or rental property? Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is I kind of like, it's almost, and we've used this analogy for other things before, but it's almost like when you're flying on the plane and they tell you to put the oxygen mask on you first before you, you know, put it on the kids or the people who are next to you.

1:42:01There's part of me that says, if it's my primary residence, that's me. And I want to protect me first and put myself in the best possible situation first, like my residence, because let's think about this, Ken, when the rubber meets the road, when COVID happens, when somebody loses a job, when somebody has a diagnosis, the number one thing they think about is, am I going to be able to keep my home? That's where the security valve is, right? And so right now we're not thinking about that, but if we put ourself in a scenario, like I mentioned, that's the first thing we think about is, is my home secure?

1:42:37And so for that reason, I would say I would choose, let me put as much down as possible so I can get this thing as paid for and as secure of a place as possible. And then I can put the mask on these other things. Then I can start thinking about real estate. Then I can start thinking about these other properties that I may or may not pay for in cash. I think that's a really good exercise, Mae. Have you actually sat down and said, okay, if we put$200 ,000 in it, what is our payment? What's our mortgage payment versus if we put 20 % down? Yeah, I have done that a bit, just kind of online playing with mortgage calculators and stuff.

1:43:14And really what it seems to be coming down to when I try to figure out if it makes sense to put it to the mortgage or to put it in the market is mortgage rates and how much you expect the market to return. But from my understanding, you're not really supposed to put things in the market that are short-term investments because it's so volatile. So I don't know if that's really a smart analysis, too, but I have to play around with those. No, that's right. But what is the difference? What is the monthly payment difference on the mortgage? I mean, I say only it's a couple hundred dollars. So maybe three, four hundred dollars.

1:43:43Yeah. But you could think of it like I'm getting the best of both worlds because if I put the 200 ,000 down, I'm getting the security on the home front. But I also have$400 freed up that I can still go ahead and invest that. and there is something to be gained from that. So I'm almost doing the best of both worlds in that way. Yeah, I was thinking of that in the scenario that you gave us, Jade, it's smart. You know, if things were to get crazy, you go, what would be like, I just wouldn't have to worry. That's right. On this house, you know, if you have the mortgage. And so, you know, I think it's a good question.

1:44:19Really glad you called. And wow, I must say, the fact that you guys have been so disciplined to save up$200 ,000. We don't talk to many people that have saved up that kind of money. So I say kudos to you. You guys are in great shape. And I would ask on the investment question, what is your retirement situation? What's your nest egg right now? So retirement between us two total is at 295 and we're both 26 years old. So almost$300 ,000. Way to go. Oh, see, I'm going to tell you something. You guys are 26. If you did nothing, and I know that's not what you're saying, nor are we recommending, But if you did nothing at this age, that$295 is going to be a lot of money.

1:44:59So just your normal baby step four, you are going to be in phenomenal shape. Well, tell us about your income because income alone is telling, like, the fact that you can do this is telling me you guys are high income earners. What do you earn? So right now, so I recently switched jobs. So right now, together, we earn$200. I was at a previous job where my base salary was about$100 where it is now, but I got very large bonuses. And so I've been taking those bonuses and investing them and putting them in retirement and things like that. So that's kind of how we built this nest egg. So I have kind of made that switch now that I have the nest egg, which I was a bit much.

1:45:35So I did kind of say, OK, I feel like I've made enough to kind of find a little bit more sustainable. So I was able to put stuff away, but not as quickly as I did at the beginning of my 20s. Can I ask what your field is and what your husband's field is? Yeah, we are civil engineers. So I went into kind of the project management side of civil engineering, and he went into the design aspect of civil engineering. Love it. Love it. That matches up, by the way, with our Ramsey millionaire study. It does. Yeah, you guys are. Engineers were in the top five. Yeah. And there's two 26-year-olds. Killing it.

1:46:07You know, listen, I know they have great jobs, but they're in phenomenal shape. So this idea that, oh, I can't be done in today's world and I'm not minimizing how expensive things are. But, man, they're doing it. And what a great place to be in. But, yeah, put it on the house. Put it on the house. That's what I would do. That's an asset. Let's not forget about that. Absolutely. And, yeah, it's an investment. There's more than one way to invest. One way is the stock market. Another way is in real estate. Yeah. Great question, Mae. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for the question.

1:47:09Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80 % behavior and 20 % head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre-order now for$24.99 and you'll get over$100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:48:01All right, let's go to John in Kentucky. John, how are you today? Doing well. All right. Good to have you on here. And John is a Baby Steps millionaire. And we love talking to the Baby Steps millionaires because they've got great stories, right? And they tell us how they did it. So, John, thank you for that. Tell people how old you are. 28. My wife, Jenna, is 30. Wow. 28 and 30. That's impressive. Okay. What is your net worth? 1.2 million. Hey. All right. No messing around. Nice. Give us the mix of the 1.2. So the largest portion is in real estate. We've got about$550 ,000 in real estate,$350 ,000 in retirement.

1:48:49We've got a couple hundred thousand in non-retirement investments, and then about$120 ,000 in just liquid cash. Wow. So you're only 28. What's the real estate? Is that your home or is that rental properties? What is this? A little of both. We've got our area here in Kentucky, the market is friendly for real estate investments. We've got a couple homes within that$550 ,000, but our home and two rental homes. Wow. And what's your income? It varies considering that just varying on the number of overtime hours I work, but it averages out to about$300 ,000 combined between the two of us. 300 to 350 ,000.

1:49:36Good for you. Wow, way to go. What do you guys do? So my wife's a software application specialist and I'm originally a pipe fitter by trade, but I've been working as a piping superintendent the last three years. So I travel around managing industrial construction projects. Okay, yeah, go ahead, Jeff. I mean, I'm listening to this i'm i'm 40 something and i'm thinking okay if i could have got it got been smart enough to get started when you guys were that would have been amazing so how did you get good at money how did you know this is these are the things we need to be doing we need to be avoiding debt budgeting etc what put you on to that early on uh honestly i think about the age of nine.

1:50:29I was eight or nine. I was, uh, I was in our garage where our dogs spent most of their time. That's where all their food bowls were. I was feeding our dogs and realized that we were almost out of dog food and went in the house. I told my mom, mom, we're almost out of dog food, add that to the grocery list. And she told me we can't afford dog food this week, maybe next week. And, uh, and, and after that, you know, that, that stuck with me. I remember going to baseball practice that night. And that just, it didn't leave my mind the rest of the day. And yeah, it did. So just, my parents taught me to think for spending and to make hay while the sun shines and save what you can.

1:51:12How much have you two been, first of all, how long have you been married? Three years. Okay. So what had you saved prior to becoming married? so i had coming into the marriage i had about 160 000 saved and uh she had about 30 000 saved um and no debt majority of our no no debt um i had a small auto loan several years ago but but we've never never had student loans or really any kind of debt of any kind when did you start working? How old were you? 18. Okay. So I'm looking, I'm talking to a 28 year old who's been working for 10 years and you've been able to save a lot of money. And I love that you're a pipe fitter.

1:52:03I love that, you know, cause it's like for too long in America, we've looked down on the trades and now I'm talking to a dude who's rolling, got properties, no debt in your life, 28 year old pipe fitter what would you say to parents who are worried maybe about their kids going into trades uh i i think uh well i'm a lot like you i think that at 18 um i think you're too young to make a decision on what you want to do for the rest of your life and buy the college education so i think that i tell a lot of folks that even if If the trade isn't what you want to do for a career, get into it for an apprenticeship, and you get exposed to so many other careers within the construction industry, the engineering, all the different avenues you can go within construction.

1:53:00It's just a really good stepping stone into management, just like I've done. It's a great place to start. And just being a construction worker on the tools now, you can make so much money. It's definitely a worthwhile avenue. So here you are, a millionaire, and in your social circles in your world, does anybody ever look down on you because you don't have a degree?

1:53:26My grandma, before she passed, every time I would talk to her on the phone, she would ask me when I was going to go to school and start getting serious about an education. Right, right. But for the most part, no. Of course not. No, I've really not. Oh, I love that. What is your saving? What has been your saving plan? I'd love to know what your budget looks like because you're definitely, both of you are living on less than you make. So give us the real real on what your spend is versus what you guys make. I would say our savings rate is probably 75%. I knew it. That's what I was doing. I knew it.

1:54:05You guys are squirrels, man. You're just packing it in. I love that. What types of things do you do? I mean, obviously you're stacking up cash. I'm not mad at it. What does your lifestyle look like? What types of things do you do to have fun, to really just enjoy what you've created? I would say, so we're both outdoors men and women. We bought, I guess what you'd call a vacation home in Idaho, a small cabin in Idaho, so that we can spend time hunting and fishing out there. And that's pretty much what we do with our time. I travel full-time for work. So I'm not home much. So when we do get time together, we like to go out there.

1:54:50So what's the plan going forward? 28 and 30, you're on this massive track to be multi, multi-millionaires. You got no debt. You got properties. You got a good job. What's the dream at this stage? uh that's that's kind of what i'm trying to figure out right now what we're working on um i'm we're trying to put together somewhat of a maybe a three to five year plan i love what i'm doing right now but i i realized that being home three weeks out of the year is not sustainable long-term. That's right. So I think using the upfront earnings at such a young age to set ourselves up to create an income off our own investments and then maybe just get further into the real estate thing for myself when I'm ready to come up.

1:55:45I got to pivot here real quick. This is what I do. I want to help really quickly because I think it's pretty clear for you. if you never needed to earn another nickel what would you do Monday through Friday

1:56:04you know honestly I'd probably just move to that little town of ours in Idaho full time and just be a handyman and help the ranchers out there can I tell you I knew odds and ends they got can I tell you something I think that that's what you ought to you you figure out your calendar you and your wife. I do think it's crazy for you to be away from her this much for much longer, given the financial situation that you're in. You're crushing it. So you could transition into this trade and maybe not travel as much. I don't care what the bridge looks like, but I'm going to tell you something. That answer, John, I want you to chew on, because you gave me a real answer, because you're going to be so financially free that you can go out to that area and maybe build something a little bit bigger, get into some real estate there, but stumble into a business around the stuff that you love, which is outdoors.

1:56:53And I'm telling you, man, that's your future. Talk to your wife about that. Say, hey, Ken put me on the spot and this is what I said. And let her start answering that question. What would she do? She's right there with you. All right. She's right there with you. We'd go tomorrow if it was totally up to her. Well, so here's the thing. One last thing. that nine-year-old experience was seared on your conscience and you shared it with us and I think that is driving you right now and I think you're you're working crazy you're doing a lot of amazing things but don't let that scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you've earned right now that'd be my challenge to you

1:57:43Thank you.

1:57:49Many of you listen to the Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:58:48Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 29, verse 25. It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you, but if you trust the Lord, you're safe. that you might as well you might as well i feel like i hear you say that kind of stuff all the time you might as well be preaching right now and our quote of the day from theodore roosevelt in any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing the worst thing you can do is nothing and by the way yeah i i this is silly but i'm going to share it because i think this is going to be powerful for somebody that's listening or watching today the worst thing you can do is no thing.

1:59:27We've turned it into nothing. But when I see that, I go, it's no thing. Yeah. To do no thing at all is the worst thing. Well, people think they're not choosing, but doing nothing is also a choice. It's a really bad choice. And some of you need to hear that because you know you need to make some tough decisions to change your financial life. It's just sitting there waiting for you to just do that thing. And that one thing leads to the next thing. And momentum is very, very real. That's why we teach the baby steps. So don't miss that little truth there. We don't just do that scripture and quote just to throw it out there.

2:00:01Let it hit you and receive it. Ethan is up in Kansas City, Missouri. Ethan, how can we help? How are you doing? Good. How are you, sir? Doing well. Thank you, guys. So I'm recently engaged. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you so much. So just proposed a couple weeks ago. So now the big question is wedding and what that's going to look like. So I am more on, we're kind of on two different ends of the spectrum here. I'm more wanting a smaller wedding with some family, maybe close friends. I mean, I honestly would just elope, sign the papers, and let's do this thing. Classic male response. Right, absolutely.

2:00:42And my fiancée, on the other hand, she's more of, let's have a bigger wedding with all of our family, all of our friends, and church members and show that biblical covenant in front of everybody. You know, it's the only wedding we're going to have. So let's go that route. So really just kind of the question of how much should we spend on the wedding and what route we should go. I mean, the money is what's going to do the talking here in my book. So who's paying for it first off? Is it just you two? So her parents are putting$15 ,000 towards, and then my parents are putting$5 ,000. Okay, so you've got$20 ,000.

2:01:18What about you guys? that's what's the thing is so we don't we we'd prefer not to have to go into our own if if we if we don't if we have the choice and we don't want to have to spend any of our own can you do what she wants to do on 20 that i mean i'm we we definitely could we definitely could really so i'm i i could plan it i could plan their wedding for twenty thousand dollars when he said a big wedding like these are vocabulary words that people have different definitions of So when you said big, I'm thinking like, yeah, what is that? How many people when she said the whole church? Well, I mean, if it'd be like all family, excited family, friends, church, all that.

2:01:59I mean, it'd probably be 400, 450, somewhere around there. That's what I'm saying. I don't think you're doing$450 wedding on 20 ,000, my guy. I'm your guy. I've never planned a wedding. I'm going to do it right now. Here's how you do that. Tell me, Ken. The ceremony is for everybody. All right. Oh, we're playing this game. i'm trying to save him money you gotta have a golden ticket to get to the party he's got 20 grand you need to do a wedding on 20 grand but she wants to be in front of everybody then so what we do is we do a lovely ceremony and the whole church that wants to come they all get to come but there is a feel if you're one of the scumbags that doesn't get to go to the party afterwards i already know where i stand don't tell me these people 400 people in the church they all think they're coming to the reception.

2:02:45They know they don't do life with you. If I don't get to go to the party, I'm not going. And that solves the problem. Thus, my brilliant, I am a brilliant strategist. I didn't realize this until now. This is so clear in my mind, Ethan, dead serious. So here's what this is going to do. You've got 20 grand committed, all right? You two have said, we would like to not put any money in. So let's play this out. let's go run it out so how would we do all the things we want to do so you tell your fiance all right babe here's the deal you want the whole church we tell everybody in the church we're doing a big ceremony but we're going to do this thing debt free blame it on ramsey i don't care and you say so what we're doing is is we're going to have a ceremony and uh we'd like we're going to have a little bags of rice and you can stand around and throw them at us and then we go to the party spot with 20 of our select with 100 of our select friends and the budget will dictate that now if she hears that and i by the way i want this i'm doing this so jade can like push back for holes in my strategy because right now i'm super impressed with my strategy and it might be bad strategy but by bringing this up to your fiance's then she gets to go well that doesn't feel right and she has the jade opinion which is the female opinion and you're probably right so so then we go Well, then we can't invite 400 people.

2:04:07How many people can we invite? Yes. Here's my thing. In 2025, do we have to feed everybody just to come celebrate us? I think there's some strategic things you could do there. I don't think so. I think what you need to do is because I... How much do mini corndogs cost at Costco? You need to stop, Ken. I'm just saying he's got 20 grand. I would. if I were you and this is going to sound like wild and your wife is going to do this I would check the etiquette books on this because weddings is something I can look up well weddings there's etiquette around it like when you send for instance when you send out the invitation you know you have to put the stamp on it for them so that they can just send back their RSVP right you wouldn't give them an envelope without a stamp on it that's considered bad etiquette right so I would check the etiquette around Ken's idea I'm not saying it's wrong I just don't really It feels a little interesting to me.

2:05:01It might be fine though. So I would check on that kind of stuff to see, is there a way that we can include people in the proper respectful way in one part of the wedding and maybe not in the other wedding? Just make sure you're doing it the right way. Okay. I don't want to take this dark, but I want to ask a real question. Does everybody that comes to a funeral go to the graveside service? No. All right. i don't know what go ahead ethan this is your call i'm trying to save you money buddy jade's trying to cost you money that got very dark very quickly that's a truth so so my my side of it with is so we won't be any debt when we get married and i just i i think future and so knowing that we're on the same page about this and i totally agree when when we have kids she's going to be stay-at-home mom and so will be on one income and so i'm i'm an elementary p teacher and then coach our middle school football and basketball team okay and so so for me i just think future i'm when when are we going to ever be offered twenty thousand dollars ever again probably not so they're okay they're okay with you taking some of that money and just simply pocketing it for life not it doesn't have to go to the wedding well that so i i think in And in some facets, some sort of wedding, in some way, shape, or form, a wedding is going to happen.

2:06:20And so to me, it's like, hey, why don't we make a$5 ,000 wedding, and then we can take the other$15 ,000, and then we have that for our future when we're trying to get a house and have gigs and whatnot. But let me throw this at you. If you invite the right people, you will also get cash. Okay, fair. Because that's what most people give you as a wedding gift. And if they have their etiquette, they're not coming in with a crumpled up 20, right? They're giving you a decent gift. I'm going to speak on behalf of all males. If you were to tell me that for the rest of my life with Stacey, when we get invited to a wedding, all I got to do is the ceremony and then I don't have to go eat and do all that stuff.

2:07:02I get to go on with my life. I would be out of my mind. But what's the best part? Is the better part the ceremony or the party? If you have to choose, I'm choosing the party. But that's with people you actually want to party with. They do not want to party with 400 people. If there's an open bar, it doesn't matter. Is there going to be an open bar? It's too expensive. No, we both don't drink, so there won't be any alcohol. Okay, so then you - Well, we just saved a lot of money there. You just saved a bunch of money. Hey, can I tell you, my wedding didn't have an open bar either, and that's why we were able to do ours.

2:07:31Mine either. Anyway, trying to help you out, Ethan. I like all these scenarios. Here's what I would tell you. uh having been married 27 years and i'm and i love marriage come on ken and say it because i'm right there with you and i married yesterday listen listen i listen if it were up to me i would have just done the little church ceremony and let's go yeah i didn't want to be at that reception i didn't want to do all that i wanted to take off on the honeymoon well let me say it from the other perspective what are we doing we had an sam and i had an awesome wedding and we paid cash for it and it was just what we wanted, and it was probably bigger than what Ken is saying.

2:08:08Oh, it was bigger than mine. As a person who's been married, you know, 15, 16, 17 years, I don't think about the wedding anymore. No, nobody does. You don't think about it anymore. I can't even remember half of it. The ceremony is what matters to me. Yeah. Very important covenant. All right, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.