Stop Borrowing, Start Building Wealth

25:00And what would cause her to not work three times a month? Like what causes her schedule to be less solid? Right. So we don't, we haven't done daycare or anything like that. So she's usually at home with the kids. We have two kids, two young kids, a toddler and an infant. And so she usually works on Fridays because I get a half day at home. Got it. But, you know, sometimes she may not be able to work four times or three times because we're traveling to her parents, they're in another city or something like that on the weekend, things like that. Okay. All right. So yeah, I mean, what's going on here is basically what we would tell everybody.

25:36There's really two places that you can start. The first place you need to start is with a budget, right? I think that you have a sense of your numbers, but the way you were talking about them doesn't make me feel like it's something that you guys are doing month to month that you're both all in on.

25:51Rachel Cruze:Yeah, because you should have close to$4 ,000. Everything you just listed out, there should be$4 ,000 left. Now, I know that didn't include food and a couple of other categories, right? But I think if you guys had a really solid budget, and we'll give you every dollar as our gift to you, to really be able to look line by line and say, what can we cut out? Because hopefully you could throw an extra$2 ,000,$2 ,500 a month at this. And if she decides to pick up some extra work where she can, that's just gravy on top. And you guys will just be slowly, you know, kind of chipping away at this$35 ,000.

26:31Rachel Cruze:But my hope for you, Matthew, is that if you go all in, then that means you would even be working extra. You would be, you know, obviously helping cut the expenses. But like whatever more you can do makes it go faster, right? So say you did$3 ,000 a month. You guys will be done in 10, 11 months of this debt. Right. Okay. And I've played around with every dollar a little bit. Like, you know, obviously we don't have the premium one, and I appreciate you guys for offering that. And I just, you know, when I start putting, you know, I backtrack a little bit, and I just kind of put in numbers from previous months, and it just seems like the surplus just melts away.

27:13Rachel Cruze:And that's probably us just not paying attention. No, as it would if you were pulling in numbers from last month because you guys weren't on a budget last month. You were overspending. Yeah. So you have to say, this is how much we want to throw. This is when we want to get out of debt, which means we have to throw this amount every single month, which means we have to find that every single month in the budget, which means we're going to be cutting things. Yes. We're not going out to eat. Right. We're cutting subscription. Like, we are cutting gym members, everything to get this one magical number every single month that's going to be thrown into debt.

27:41Rachel Cruze:And then in 10 months, Matthew, you can put some of that back in. You know what I mean? It's not like it's gone forever, but you guys have to have an aggressive change to see progress. It's just chipping away a little bit here and like, okay, we'll cut that and maybe this. Yeah, you're just trying to avoid the - And you just feel like, yeah, you're not making any traction. That's why we are pretty intense on the sacrifice side of getting out of debt so that you feel momentum happening. Because if you don't, it just elongates it and it's exhausting. Well, yeah, it's like anything else. So if you want to make progress in an area, you're going to feel the pain of that progress.

28:16Like if you lift weights, you can't just, you know, lift two and a half pounders. You're not going to build anything. You got to feel it. And so it's the same thing with this. I think Rachel is exactly right. So for instance, just to give you a real picture with kind of real numbers, if you look back, what is it, August? So if you look back for July and say, what did we spend on groceries? And you found that you spent$1 ,200 on groceries. well then that's you then this month decide we're only going to spend$950 on groceries if you look back and you say oh my gosh we spent you know 600 bucks eat now yes this month we're only spending 150 like heart like hard stop right there so those are and you are going to feel it you're going to feel like a child crying because you're not getting your way honestly you will and it's going to be one of those things where like you look at each other and it's like oh my God, this sucks.

29:07Yes. Truly. And one of you, I don't know who, cause I don't know your marriage. One of y 'all is going to be like Eve trying to get the other one to do wrong. And one of you is going to have to be strong and be like, we said we're going to do this. And it's going to feel like that for a couple of months until you start seeing, um, not to mess up the analogy, but until you start seeing the fruit of what you're doing. And then when that happens, you're going to go, okay, this is worth it. And it gets easier and a little bit easier every month. But if you guys do this, something really special happens.

29:39Rachel, I don't know if we talk about this enough. You're just going to become people who you do what you say you're going to do. And there is such a trust there that's built between couples when it's like we shake and agree on something. And then I actually see like he held up his side of the bargain. I held up my side of the bargain. And what that's going to do for your marriage beyond just the money and the debt payoff is really something, Matthew. And it's really worth you guys just going just 10 toes into this thing. Yeah.

30:05Rachel Cruze:And that you're both people that can, the phrase is so overused these days, but it's just true that can do hard things, right? Like you're going to run into stuff. That's not easy. We just had our parent teacher conference with our third grade class yesterday, last night, and they had this phrase. Um, and she talked about like the, the suffering that happens, but it's good. Like they're going to run into things. We all do that. It's like, it doesn't come easy. Uh, and it's frustrating and you just want the answer. You just want the, you know, the quick way out. And that's not how life works. And so when you go through it together though, in a marriage, and you're like, wow, we can do that.

30:40Rachel Cruze:Like we can do things that are really difficult. There's a tolerance that's built up there. That's just, it's good for your marriage. Like there is something that is so unifying in that Matthew for you all, instead of just kind of like placating this idea of money, you're like, no, no, no, we're going to be people of intentionality. And you said at the beginning of the call, which I think is awesome, that you're doing it for a reason. You're like, we want to save for our kids' future. We want to be people that our kids have a better life than we did. And that's a noble goal, right? Absolutely.

31:09Rachel Cruze:To have that why. So we really do believe in transformation, Matthew. And I think you guys can take what you've done, do a 180 and say, you know what? We're going to crush this. And it may not be the popular thing in our neighborhood. And you sound like a smart guy, Matthew, very well spoken. And so I think you know this stuff in your head. It's just when it goes from there to your heart and you lock arms with your spouse and say, OK, we're in this together. Yeah. And we didn't talk about those leases, but go on, ask Ramsey and ask him, what would we say to do with those leases? And it'll tell you exactly what to do.

31:39Rachel Cruze:Yep. And everyone, you can download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play if you want to check it out.

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33:24Rachel Cruze:Up next, we have Katie in Green Bay. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the show. Hi there, ladies. How are you? Hi, we're doing great. How are you? Fantastic. Thanks. Calling in today, just my husband and I are in baby step six. And we're looking for advice about prioritizing cash flowing, some major renovations on our home, overpaying it off early. Knowing that we intend to sell our home and relocate once our youngest graduates high school in about eight years, we want to maximize that sale price. Okay. Well, eight years is a while. Do you think you could do both? You could do renovations and probably have it paid off in eight years?

34:04I don't think that we'd be able to do both. This is an old farmhouse that needs some major upgrades that we not only want to be able to enjoy while we live here, but to be able to make it competitive. Lots of new construction, new subdivisions that are kind of growing around us. So we were just kind of wondering if it would be wise just to prioritize those renovations, knowing that we would definitely be able to get it out in the end. What's the price tag? Like of all the things that you're wanting to do, whether it's floors, kitchen, bathrooms, roof, whatever, what's it all going to cost when you look at the whole scope of it?

34:38We've kind of done some budgeting and things, you know, kind of trying to estimate some of it. We can do a lot of this work ourselves. We would hire contractors to do some of the majors, the plumbing, the electrical and things like that. But a lot of the cosmetic things we are able and capable to do ourselves. We've already done many projects here already. a price tag it'd really be hard the way we've kind of done it so far is we pick I don't know let me stop you on that because you're telling me that if we do these projects it will keep us from having the margin to pay off the house early if you tell me that I'm looking at this going okay then this is a hefty price tag but then when I asked you you're kind of back backpedaling on it if you were to look at this not not even even the projects you're going to do yourself right There's still materials.

35:25There's still things involved that you have to spend money on. So if you, I'm not, I'm not scared. So if you, if you tell me the number, we want to, we want to help you work this out. Sure. I guess that is some research that we have been doing with each project. So I definitely, the kitchen definitely needs to be upgraded. Both bathrooms. The idea would be modest flooring throughout the whole home and then kind of just the curb appeal.

35:50Rachel Cruze:And we're just trying to do it in order. Yeah, and all that adds good value to resale, everything you said, which is great. So price tag wise, how much do you think all that's going to cost? Yeah, how many square feet is this house? It's just over 3 ,000. Okay. So is it fair to say like this is like 40 for the kitchen, 10 per bathroom, and maybe another 10 to 15 for the floors? Is that fair? um i would say that that would be a little bit of a yes a great estimate maybe running into some issues being that it's an old farmhouse you always run into those project issues so so let's say 100 75 to 100 000 and how much is very fair and how much is left on the house katie to pay off we um we owe 250 250 current current value um that's just our our real estate agents current relative estimate is between, as it is currently, is between five and six.

36:50Rachel Cruze:Okay. So this would definitely, you would get, I think you would get more than$100 ,000 price-wise right after these renovations added to it. So, and this is an eight-year play? Did I hear that? Yeah, that would be our eight-year planning to, at the very least, downsize from this big home, but our plan is to completely relocate out of state. I think there's time. It just depends on what you guys' income is, what money you have saved. So tell us a little bit about that. We have approximately between$1 ,000 and$5 ,000 in margin to be able to do this each month. Our monthly net income is drastically variable.

37:35We own a small business that is very seasonal. So it does vary. But we have, oh, let me see. We've got all the, like I said, about upwards of$5 ,000 a month to do some of these projects and things. Okay. So I tend to veer on the side of Rachel. How much is the mortgage payment, by the way, just your normal mortgage payment? Our normal mortgage payment is$1 ,200 per month, which falls below our 20, it costs about 18 % of our monthly income. So here's, let me, let me give you a little framework of how I view these things. And I think Rachel will land the plane very nicely. So when I think about big, big expenditures, um, I run them through kind of a financially responsible adult checklist.

38:24And these are the things that I must be doing in order to do set expenditure, right? Number one, you've got to be on a budget. That's I've got to be living on a budget, that's what I do. That's a green check for you. I believe you're on a budget. Number two, I've got to be out of debt. And the thing that I want to do obviously can't cause me to go into debt. Green check on that. Number three, I've got to be carrying the proper insurances. I have a will, life insurance, health insurance. I've done all that. Nothing's pending there. That's the next check. The third thing, and this is the big one, and I'll go out of order.

38:53So I said the big one for the end. The fourth thing is I need to prioritize generosity. If you're doing that consistently. It's not going to cause me to stop prioritizing generosity. Green check. Now the fifth one, and this is the one where I think you have a problem is I also have to be prioritizing saving. And the way that we talk about saving around here is baby step three. Got to have three to six months of expenses. Baby step four, I must be investing 15%. It cannot cause me to stop investing 15%. And the third one, which is getting you, I have to prioritize saving in my forced savings account, which is my home.

39:30I need to be putting some extra bit because this is the plan I said I'm following. I need to be putting some extra bit on my mortgage because that's my forced savings account. And so I actually think that you have the margin to do both. It's just going to take you a little longer. Okay.

39:48Rachel Cruze:Yeah, but I would be okay with you guys cash flowing some renovations, you know, and slowing down a little bit on paying off the house in order to do that. Because if you if you guys save or you you literally it makes me always nervous doing renovations like month by month yeah from a money perspective because stuff comes up that's a high dollar sometimes and you're like oh crap and then it kind of puts you backwards so I almost would take six months or so and have like 30 ,000 like in the bank and so we then we can press go and then continue to save on top of that but you guys kind of all this done Katie I mean I don't know from the renovation side but from the money perspective, um, at five, you know, I know it's not always five grand a month, but it could be anywhere from 18 to 24 months to be able to cashflow all of these.

40:34Rachel Cruze:And maybe you start with the big, you know, you do the kitchen first and then after that's done, you know, and if you do have to pause and save up a little bit more to do a bathroom, um, you just, when you do that, you are kind of living in a construction zone for about 18 months. So if you're okay with that, but, but I do, but I do think, I don't think I'm off base to say that that would, that is going to add value that's putting equity back in which is a great thing you guys aren't doing a pool even though i love a pool you're not you're not going to get the money out for that right so if that's what you were saying i'd be like if you wanted to just know but for me this is even more of a plus because you're hitting the things that every homeowner looks at bathrooms kitchens floors paint and landscape like when you do that you are adding value back to your home but i do think like doing that in phases to rachel's point it's like okay we're gonna spend six months we're gonna to save up for one of the bathrooms or whatever your rate is.

41:27And then you take a moment and you're like, you know what, let's do an extra mortgage payment or two. And then you go back and go, okay, now this next span of time. So you're not stopping your progress on the baby steps. You're just spending spans of time on the things you want, but then you're jumping right back into it. And I think that's a fair way to do it. Yeah.

41:46Rachel Cruze:Keeping it going throughout it too. Yeah, that sounds like a great balance. That's kind of how we anticipated it, stacking the cash and then having it so we can cash flow individual projects as we go. And then going from there, always anticipating that they're going to take longer and cost more than we planned. There you go. Yeah, that's true. That's the reality. That's good. And Rachel, this is probably your world more than it is mine. But I do think knowing that you're going to want to move on from the house, but you also want to enjoy it. I feel like that's something you have to think about when you're making certain choices that you're not over renovating, that you're not overly personalizing it.

42:23Knowing that you're going to want to get out of it. Some of the worst stuff is people take a garage and turn it into something else.

42:29Rachel Cruze:And now it's no longer a garage. But a garage is such a big feature for selling a home. or they take a bedroom and they knock out the wall and make it. You know what I mean? Like there are things that you're like, okay, that just, no, you can do it for you because you love it and that's what you want. But if your goal in the back of your mind is knowing you're out in eight years, to your point, making a little bit more generic selections and not the like crazy specific ones, even though I'm sure, Katie, your taste is great. And you're in the farmhouse world where I think most Americans want to be.

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44:20Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw And we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225 Alright, we have Matthew in Providence, Rhode Island up next Hi Matthew, welcome to the show Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking the call Absolutely, how can we help? So, I'll just give you a little backstory of what's going on Me and my girlfriend, we had a daughter She's not my fiance. So she moved in with me and she has a lot of credit card debt,$75 ,000 in credit card debt. So and that was kind of, you know, she worked full time at night.

45:06I worked full time during the day. We get a lot of babysitting help, so we don't have to pay for babysitters. So that's nice. Yeah. Where did this debt come from? That's a lot. Yeah, sure is. some of it was like before I met her, she was working like 70 hours a week. So she was working during the day and then at night. And then so she's kind of, I think, used to a lifestyle that, you know, and then started working half those hours.

45:35Rachel Cruze:And so that caused the credit card. Okay. Yeah. And then obviously she got pregnant and her job kind of closed down for a while, you know doing renovations and then I just think it snowballed I didn't realize she was putting like formula diapers and stuff on a credit card like because we were we were moving in together but we weren't like we're not like integrated together you know what I mean like I wasn't sure exactly how she was doing and I just I knew she was working but I didn't know how bad it was yeah okay so yeah yeah exactly so you got 75 ,000 in credit card debt or she does what what other debt do you guys have uh i have well i have no credit card debt we both have 13 000 left on our cars um individually or together uh individually she has 13 on hers okay okay yep yep so um yeah so basically that's kind of been like in the background like and well you know she had a baby she was a full-time student uh you are saying you all had a baby though right uh well we we of course we have a baby i mean you know i mean you're not really saying it you're not yeah you're not really taking care of it that's what it feels like is she's taking care of everything right no no no no absolutely not no no no i pay for so let me get to the rest of it and then it'll make more sense please help us out so i i i'm getting there okay i promise okay um yeah so we'll point point is she was in the middle of like finishing her degree when we met.

47:11So she was, you know, full-time student, full-time, well, you know, mom, I mean, we split duties, but still it's a lot, you know, and then full-time employee. So, you know, it was just a lot all at once. So how old's the baby now? So she's 18 months. Okay. 18 months. So you guys have started to get a little bit of a rhythm, a little bit of a flow going on and you're looking up saying, hey, this debt, this is the problem. We need to start solutioning that. Can I ask one question? I just want to make a – is this your fiancé or your girlfriend? She's my fiancé now. She is your fiancé. Yeah, we got engaged June 30th.

47:51When do you all get married?

47:52Rachel Cruze:When's the wedding? What date? Well, we're still kind of unsure about that. Next year sometime. No. We're just going to have a small – Matthew, you know, you're basically married. You guys live together. you have a baby together? Yes. And trust me, I know. What's the purpose of waiting? Is the question. Oh, oh. Well, we want to do a church wedding. You know, we're Catholic. We want to do a church wedding. So while I'm Catholic, she's not. Wait a minute. But it takes 18 months to get a church wedding? No, I guess not. But just... Matthew, we need a little urgency. We need a little urgency in life.

48:29Rachel Cruze:We want this debt paid off. We need to get together. We need to make this official. We need to like. But you can't roll the Catholic thing back in when it matters on getting married. But it didn't matter before. This is unfair because this is sounding bad and this is not. Listen, hey, we're on your side. We're on your side. We truly, truly are. No, she's totally on board with the timeline. I know. I try to get people yelling. What if you did this? People yell at me all the time because I say like I'm like I'm watching my daughter. And they're like, you're not watching your daughter. I know. semantics.

49:03Rachel Cruze:But it is not semantics when we're going to talk about your money because the way Jade and I are going to answer it is that it is going to be separate. There is no combining right now because you don't have any legal protection. She doesn't have legal protection financially. Neither do you. You don't until you guys are legally married. So our advice is going to be different though, Matthew. But here we say what we're about to walk through is going to look different because you don't have a wedding date set and and i'm not trying to box you put you in a box matthew because i like you you're fun but this whole semantics thing is real and you may call in two years and be like i don't know you know this happened in this like so until you guys are married we would give you one set yep a plan one way and then there's going to be another plan until you're married so here's what we would say because well well that's another piece i guess i haven't really thought about yet.

49:55Like, um, like I trust her fully. Um, and I know like, and that's the thing, we're not quite married yet, but I understand, you know, with her being my fiance, that's why, that's why we're kind of, you know, really trying to deal with this, just the emotional stress that she's carrying from this. Like, well, so let us give you a solution. Let us give you a solution because all that you're saying, the emotional stress, the dollars, the, all of this stuff, I think Rachel and I, there's two routes here. I want to simplify it for you because it feels like a lot floating around your head. There's two routes.

50:27The one route is you can say, we're not married yet. Therefore, everything is separate. This is my baby. I am devoted to my child, but financially our lives are separate. That means her debt is her debt and my debt. That means your only debt is a$13 ,000 car and you're paying it off. And we can give you the seven steps to make that happen and give you financial peace. The other choice, which I actually feel is a better choice for you if you do say this is the woman you want to marry, is you can go to the courthouse, you can fill out the piece of paper and be married on paper so that you can legally combine and work together.

51:05And then later on, when you can afford to have a party and do the church wedding and things like that, you're doing that just as a show and a party for your friends. yeah I guess I guess I just don't know I guess I just don't quite know the under I don't know the difference as far as like what the benefit uh to you know as far as financially being married

51:25Rachel Cruze:versus not um so uh that that you I'll paint you as the would be the the quote-unquote victim right if this happens is that you take your income you throw you know eighty thousand dollars over the next 18 months at this credit card debt and then she looks up and she's like listen I don't want I don't want to do this. I'm taking the baby and we'll figure out custody later, but we're done. You have no legal protection. But you don't know. Matthew, listen to our show. The craziest stuff happens on this show that people call in. And I know you think that you're. I listen to you guys all the time. I know you're the exception to the rule, Matthew.

52:00Rachel Cruze:You are special. I know. I know. Well, maybe a little, but no, not really. But yeah. No, but well, think about it this way. I think about it from a perspective of like faith. You know, I just have faith that like I'm kind of. So what do you want to do? Maybe you're right. Talk to the woman whose husband has a gambling addiction and talk about faith. Yep. I mean, we all do. I love Jesus. We got some faith, but we're also all human. We got to be smart. Yeah. We got to be smart. And there's no legal protection, Matthew. And so keeping it separate. But I think what Jade is saying, combining everything is the best thing for you guys.

52:34Rachel Cruze:And you're basically married, Matthew. You're basically married. Just go do it. Go do it.

52:45We'll be right back.

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54:24Rachel Cruze:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Missed private student loan payments can leave you feeling like your financial goals are on hold. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fits your budget so you can move forward with a plan. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Sierra in Georgia. She says, in the past year, I've had a few occasions when I feel like my friends are expecting me to spend money on vacation or going out when it doesn't align with my budget. I'm on baby step six, paying off the house.

55:03So it's not that I never vacation or go out, but I can tell they're confused when I explain that something isn't in my budget. How do I politely say that without hurting their feelings while keeping the door open to spending time together at another time?

55:20Here's the thing. The idea of it hurting their feelings, I think, is where I'm a little bit confused. because if somebody says to me, if I say, oh, let's go to such and such restaurant and they go, actually, that's like, that's too steep for me. My feelings aren't hurt. I usually I would be the one who feels a little bit like, oh yes, no worries. You know what I mean? So I wonder if their feelings are actually hurt or if you're just interpreting their reaction in a way that's

55:51Rachel Cruze:projecting something else. Yes. Um, and then I think the simple, the simple answer to the question, honestly, Rachel, is to not really care that much what people think. And just to say, because if you're saying what I think you're saying, which is, I can't spend that this month, or that's a little too expensive for me, or that's just not in my budget this month. I think those are perfectly fine responses. I don't think you have to necessarily go into detail of the why behind why you can't go. Especially if it's something that is just more of a lifestyle difference because sometimes we, you may be on baby step six and it's like, oh, you're on baby step six.

56:32There's no debt. You can still go out and have a good time. And that's all true. But if your friend group is in a different, completely different income level than you and they're wanting to do things that your income just doesn't afford you to be able to do as regularly as they do, I think that's totally fair. And even if that's the case, if they're good enough friends, I would just say that. I'd be like, listen, I don't have it like Like you and Bob have it. Like you and Bob are in the high six figures. I'm right here. So thank you for inviting me. But I can't do that as often as you can. And I have buddies that I would 100 % say that to.

57:06Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And I have friends that have crazy work hours. And so there'll be times that we're all like getting together and doing something. And I remember she's always like, keep asking me. There will be a day I can. So I think that's even okay to say. It's like, hey, I can't right now, but ask me again. But continue to keep me looped in. Yes. this isn't a rejection or a no to our friendship. I just financially literally cannot do this. And, but let me know next time because I would love to hopefully join in. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And if the only time you hang out with your friends is on vacation and going out and spending a bunch of money, some expensive friends.

57:41Rachel Cruze:Right, right, right. There's so much fun you can have of just not going. I mean, I mean, like, I don't know. I feel like half of our hangouts are in our homes and backyards. You know what I mean? So hopefully the friendship, are built and you have more quality time with them outside of just going out and vacation. But that's true. I hope that helps Sierra. That is it is tough. It is tough when you yeah, either it's they're choosing to live a life beyond their means and you're choosing not to and or you're exactly right or they just make a different income. Yeah, that's true. And there's a reality there.

58:12Rachel Cruze:And so kind of facing the music sometimes with this stuff, it's not fun, but it leaves And it leaves you maybe with a little bit of like angst. But I think you would have way more angst and chaos if you just said, you know what, forget it. I'm going to do what I want to do. Spend what I want to spend regardless of what I make. That's going to cause more harm on the other side. Well, I do want to attack it from the other side real quick, too, because I do find that some of us baby steppers get a little too intense on baby step six. True. And we keep our foot on the gas from baby step two. and it's like we want to keep that same intensity and we I would say actually if that's you Sierra you do you need to enjoy your life and you need to go out and have fun and I understand if you're like I gotta pay this house off but you do you gotta live life too like this process is designed the seven baby steps is designed for a certain purpose and the truth is after you get past baby step three, you do get to move from intensity to intentional.

59:14And a lot of us forget to make that transition. And it's so important.

59:18Rachel Cruze:That's a great point. Yeah. Don't be crazy, girl. Have some fun if you're not having fun. All right. Let's go to Jack in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? I just need affirmation that my idea for retirement is not crazy. And I want to sell my house, invest the money, and actually just go ahead and rent the rest of my life. I mean, I'm about to turn 62, about to start collecting Social Security, and I just, am I crazy? Why are you wanting to do that? Because you're worried you don't have enough in actual investment dollars in the stock market?

59:59Well, it's actually the opposite. I have no debt. I actually have a workout where I have money in like little buckets everywhere to where I should be able to bring in between 10 and$12 ,000 a month, that including the money I would get from my house, which is paid for, and get into a secure investment, bringing in about$2 ,000 a month. And that would give me total about$2.25 million in other investments, a lot in the stock market, that I really don't have to touch. And I can continue to let grow. But I also don't have the house payments, but the escrow, the upkeep of it and the things of that nature where maybe my wife and I can just travel and kind of like what you were saying a minute ago about just enjoy life.

1:00:46So it almost sounds like you're more interested in downsizing and having something that requires less attachment, like maybe like a townhome or something where you're not in charge of the upkeep that you can kind of travel and you're not worried about the property itself. because the truth is, and we'll get into this a little bit more, but having a personal residence is a big piece of security on down the line for a couple of reasons. Obviously, we know it's a major portion of people's portfolio when they're building wealth as a baby steps millionaire. But the second part of it is you're keeping what for most people is the biggest line item on your budget.

1:01:26You're keeping it stable because rent is going to continue to go up and up and up, Jack. And there's part of you that wants to have that stability of saying, But my mortgage, once it's paid off, it's just that I know what the taxes are. I know what the, you know, the insurance are. And so that's the piece of it that would make me go, I would love for you to own something that's yours that can remain stable. Okay.

1:01:51Rachel Cruze:Because over the course of time, Jack, even if you were just pulling out what your investments were making and not touching the principle, but you just kind of like basically took out the growth of$12 ,000 a month. that when you think about it in 20 years which you easily could be alive rent uh oh my gosh would be who knows how much right in 20 years of the type of living situation you want to be in and so for me that is such a question mark um and it's such a big deal and you guys aren't maybe not going to want to travel when you're 82 you maybe really do want to settle down and have consistency somewhere.

1:02:29Rachel Cruze:And then trying to get into the market in 20 years and where houses prices are going to be. And if the investments don't grow with the rate you think they're going to grow. There's just there's a lot of risks to me. So I do wonder if you sold your house, Jack, how much would you sell it for? A little under 600 is what my the comps would be. My neighbors have recently sold theirs. Okay. Yeah. I just wonder if you took half of that and bought something small, right? Just to have that's yours to come back to and that you always know is there. And when you guys don't want to be traveling and moving and everything, there's a place.

1:03:11Rachel Cruze:So that's probably what I would do. Some people are going, they are kind of taking this trend of just renting. I've heard that. And in some cases, I could understand, but I think even, I mean, 2.2 million is amazing. But even with that over the course of 20, 30 years, yeah, I don't think I would trust the, I don't know, I don't like it. Yeah, I think there's a time where you wanna put down, to own something, even if it's a condo, to have some foot in real estate that's yours, that you do now in the present. And then, yeah, so that's what I would do, Jack. If I woke up in your shoes, I would still have something.

1:03:52Rachel Cruze:But again, maybe it's a significantly less valued property than you have now and you invest the difference.

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1:05:37Rachel Cruze:We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show, but if you do have a money question, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So this is our new free AI tool and it's built on trained and proven Ramsey principles. So all of the articles and the shows and so much of the content that we put out on a daily basis out of here is all within that engine. So when you're asking it, it's basically like you're asking us here on the show. Very good. Yep. So make sure to check it out. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

1:06:13Rachel Cruze:All right. Let's go to Micah in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Micah. Welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? I appreciate you taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I am about to turn 25, and I've lived paycheck to paycheck for as long as I've been an adult out of my own since, like, 19. I don't have a ton in debt, but I don't want any. Obviously, zero is the ideal number. With my truck, I have, it's like 44 ,000 total in debt. Without that, it's like eight. So most of it is a vehicle. I am a firefighter in a group right around Little Rock area. And I met probably about 3 ,200 a month from that job.

1:07:01And then I have a very small, sometimes uneventful little side gig as a, I do some power washing. So that's unpredictable. I've had months where it's 1500 bucks, you know, on the side or months where it's a few hundred. So that's really hard to, I try not to put that too much on the budget because it's unreliable. But basically, my question is just I feel like I'm so close to being in a good financial spot with a girl. We're not engaged, but every plan to be and to be married, I'm wanting to make sure that before I do all that, I want to make sure that I'm in the best financial spot personally, that I'm not carrying any of this into marriage about a year down the road.

1:07:43Yeah.

1:07:44Rachel Cruze:Well, from just a debt income ratio perspective, the truck is pretty glaring, Micah. It's a big, it's a large. Yeah,$609 a month. It's how much a month? $609. $609? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yep. Yes. Yeah. So that's, that's your ticket out. I mean, I'm going to say it, but I'm like, man, for you, a thousand bucks difference. And I know it's 609, but if you got on a tight budget and found 400 bucks, that's a thousand bucks extra a month. It's just there. So for me, I'm like, I don't know. I probably am selling the truck. I certainly would. I thought of that and I'm not opposed to it. I do like the truck, but I'm smart enough to know that this is a very small price to pay for setting myself up for being financially better off.

1:08:40Rachel Cruze:Here's the numbers. I just ran them real quick, Micah. You're 25. Let's say you retire at 67, and you just invested that truck payment every month. So instead of having a truck payment, let's just pretend you just invested that, so you paid yourself. At 67, you'd have$6.5 million at retirement just by doing that. It's not that much money. No, no, no, just some change, just some 6.5 million change. That's like a painful opportunity cost to pay just for a truck. Yeah, like that's the wildness of how normalized debt is. Paying someone else versus paying yourself costs you$6.5 million. Unbelievable.

1:09:21Rachel Cruze:So that one decision, Micah, that one decision, that changes your whole life. Yeah. Well, here's the tricky thing about it. So I've had this truck for maybe six months and probably a little less than that. I drove a little Hyundai Accent, a little good gas car. It was like$420 a month, which is, I think, pretty average. It still sucks. But for that kind of car, it seemed to be what was average. But I sold that. I still owed on it. Even with what they gave me, it was about$3 ,000 negative equity. And they put that on this loan. Yeah. So you're upside down. I'm still, yeah. But only 3 ,000 though, right?

1:10:03Rachel Cruze:3 ,000. Yeah. You could get that. You could get your hands on that. Yeah. Hopefully. I mean, with the power washing, you never know. There's some jobs. I mean, that could be two or three jobs. Then you're waiting tables the other night. Yeah, pick a different side hustle. That's solid. Yeah, that's what I've been doing is looking around and applying to places because you need something consistent. Yeah, power washing, when it's good, it's good. But when it's not, there's nothing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you need to have a couple of side hustles in your quiver that you can pull from whenever you need one.

1:10:34And I think if you do that, you're going to be out of this in no time because you just need$3 ,000, right? I mean, if you look around your apartment, maybe there's something you can sell to start, you know, to get the first thousand, right? So really try to go very quickly into doing this because this is$609 on the line here. And then after that, how much did you say the other debt was, the credit cards, I think you said? Um, credit cards is the next biggest one. It's like 4 ,400, uh, on two credit cards. One is$3 ,500 limit. That's maxed out. And the other one is a, whatever the remainder of that.

1:11:09So 500 on that.

1:11:10Rachel Cruze:So what's wild is if you could find, gosh, I mean, a thousand a month, let's just say, and between this credit card debts and all of that, I mean, that's nine, 10 months. You'd be out of this. And that's just a thousand dollars, Micah. Like if you went and said, What if I did 2000, right? You, you half that, you know, you cut that timeline in half. And, and that's what the, the identity change for you is. You're a guy right now. That's kind of you're normal. You got a, you got a nice truck. You got some credit card debt. You're making some side, you know, but you just feel like, gosh, even with the side hustle, I'm living paycheck to paycheck.

1:11:46Rachel Cruze:That's a pretty normal profile of people. But when you change what you've been doing and you say, I'm not a person of debt, I don't borrow money, even on cars. Nothing is normalized. I'm not doing it. I'm not going into debt. I'm going to pay myself. And instead of paying banks for the rest of my life, I'm a person that has money saved on the side. And I'm a person that budgets and that I know where my money's going. And I'm intentional with every single dollar. If you're bringing in$6 ,700 a month, you know where every dollar is going. And I guarantee you after living a life like that for about 18, 24 months, you will create such stability and peace and discipline in your life where money no longer is an issue because you've tackled it.

1:12:32Rachel Cruze:Like you're the one that's controlling it. It's not controlling you anymore, but it has to, there has to be kind of this not lackadaisical mindset. Do you know what I mean? Like there's, there's a level of intensity of change that has to happen for you to get out of the orbit of normal. Yeah. Not to mention your lovely lady is gonna take note of this and go, wow, this guy's got his life together. Yes. He looks like he knows how to handle his business, you know? Yeah, and the great thing is that her and I are together. I mean, we're not married. Of course, that's the intention down the road a little bit.

1:13:05But we are both, you know, sitting down and, like, going over each other's separate budgets, like, together and just kind of pairing stuff out and making sure that we're both on the same track of, you know, we're saving up to go elope. This is probably, like, two years down the road, so we're trying to get a jump on it. We know that we can't be super aggressive in the saving right this second, but the plan is we're both on the same track trying to make sure we're getting our money right and saving up and doing all this stuff. So I definitely want to put myself in the best scenario. And, yeah, I guess saving that up, getting out of being upside down in the truck and selling it.

1:13:39I mean, it's not that attached to it. It's nice, but I'd much rather just be fine.

1:13:44Rachel Cruze:I mean, you make around$70 ,000 and you have a$44 ,000 truck. So it's too much. It's just too much. Even with the negative equity, like I don't care. That's just too much debt to have on a truck because of even your income. So I would, yep, I'd for sure. I've been up a little more than I could chew with this. No, that's okay. But, you know, just know that the faster you go on this, when people have a debt-free journey in front of them, the faster you go, which means the deeper the sacrifice allows you to go faster, the more likely you are to see it through till the end. If you just, you know, kind of, you know, wander through it and I'll do a little bit here, but I don't want it to be, you're more likely to just get comfortable with status quo.

1:14:24And it's like, you want to finish this. You've said that, and I think you have a really nice why, which is that relationship that's sitting there in front of you. And so really just lean into that. And to Rachel's point, what do you want your life to feel like? What do you want those first months of your marriage to feel like? What do you want?

1:14:40Rachel Cruze:What kind of husband do you want to be? What kind of man do you want to be? I mean, there's a lot there. Yes, there is. Well, thanks, Micah, for the call. Again, the number is 888-825-5225. Give us your call about your life and your money.

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1:16:57Rachel Cruze:Up next, we have Rachel in San Francisco. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel and Jade. I'm so excited to talk to you. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? My husband and I have been married for 11 years, and we are in baby step two. We started at$152 ,800 in debt about a year and a half ago. Since then, we've sold a car. I got a new job and moved into our RV so I can put as much money as possible towards the debt. And we are down to$18 ,800. Wow. Good night, girl. Good job. That's amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah, we're on a 6 % APR HELOC. That's our last piece that we're paying off.

1:17:41And my new company, Restricted Stock Units, just released.

1:17:45Rachel Cruze:And they're worth$18 ,200. Oh, my gosh. Perfect. But the stock has down 100 % from last year. So I'm hesitating selling. I know you guys must tell me to sell it. I just needed to call in and make sure. What kind of industry is the company in? Tech. Okay. So a little volatile, I guess, for the, is it the industry, the type of tech that you're in, or is it the specific company that you're like, eh? It's the type of tech that I'm in is volatile. And like the whole industry is down right now. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, I asked Ramsey and somehow got to a potentially phased exit strategy. But I don't know that that's what Dave would recommend.

1:18:42Rachel Cruze:So, yeah, pulling some out. Yeah. As you kind of, yeah, a little bit at a time and see like every six months if something changes. Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad plan necessarily. but I feel like trying to time the market is never good because what sucks, Rachel, is I'm like, golly, in five months it could be down another 100 % or up 100%. You know what I mean? And either way, you're like kicking yourself. So it's like, oh my gosh. What's your amount of margin that you're throwing at the debt every single month? About$8 ,000. Okay. Oh, so you guys would be out in two and a half months. Yeah, we're so close.

1:19:24Rachel Cruze:Oh, okay. If there... I wouldn't do single stocks anyways. So I'm like, I... There's still a piece where I'd be like, yeah, get rid of them. Because this is exactly the reason is because it's one single piece of... It's one single thing and your whole world is like rising and falling by that one company. Yes. So I probably, I would probably just cash out, Rachel, honestly, even though it hurts that it's down. But I think trying to time something in a volatile industry is just like there's no one has, you know, has the secrets. No one knows when. And I guess if you do know, you'll go to jail if you're insider trading, if you like know what's happening.

1:20:04Rachel Cruze:Oh, gosh. But no. So, yeah, I probably would just sell. I would keep that momentum of, you know, six, seven grand a month that you're throwing at this debt. Or did you say$8 ,000? $8 ,000. $8 ,000. Yeah. And I'd take it as a gift, pay off your debt, and then build up a great emergency fund. And then, man, you guys are just, yeah, you're way ahead of the game in that. So I think that's just what I would do. I would just see it as an$18 ,000 gift and call it a day. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. The 6 % HELOC really just, it's such a low APR. It's hard to let it go. Yeah. But you would have let it go anyways in two months, three months.

1:20:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah. yeah okay thanks that's the kick i needed i think yes i know and and and with your eight think about it like this with your 8 000 margin you would have the money that that stock lost in two months that's right you know what i mean like you guys are doing really really well that's a good point 100 of 18 000 is 18 like yeah you're gonna get that back with the work ethic you guys have changing your life rachel is not gonna be the stock it's you guys now if it was 118 000 right It'd feel different. Yes, but it's$18 ,000. And again, you can make that in two to three months with just the margin you guys have.

1:21:25Rachel Cruze:So I don't think it's that big of a deal at the end of the day. Yeah, I would agree with that. $18 ,000 is a gift. It's great. But I don't think it's – it's not going to be the thing that makes or breaks you guys because you guys have already done so much already, which is just insane. So well done. We're so proud of you, Rachel, for real. Like that is – that's wild. Really, really well. How well you guys have done. All right, let's go to Dan in Philadelphia. Hi, Dan. Welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? Hi, we're doing great. How are you? Good. Awesome. How can we help today? So this is my situation.

1:21:58I'm 33. I'm single. I have pretty much lived paycheck to paycheck my entire adult life, and I'm just kind of over it at this point. So I have$9 ,000 in a car. I have$53 ,000 in student loans, and I have$15 ,000 in a legal case that I am paying. So I bring home about$4 ,400 a month right now. And just the area that I'm in, I've cut so much out of my life. I've gotten rid of all my subscriptions. We're doing the Aldi shops. We're doing everything possible to cut everything out. but the area that I'm in is just so expensive. Where are you? Is it crazy? Oh, Philadelphia. So I'm in like the Philadelphia area, but I'm really in like South New Jersey.

1:22:51What's keeping you there? And I like, I have friends here and like my family's here. But aside from that, like I have friends in other cities. Do they earn what you earn? Your friends and family? Do they have, do they earn around$4 ,400 a month living in that area? Yeah. Yeah. And like and I like I work a remote job like I work in hospitality doing revenue management. So I work remote. I can go wherever I want. So you don't need to be on the struggle bus of living in an expensive area on forty four hundred a month. Yeah. Like is it is it just crazy to like I mean, like the majority of the people that I know are here.

1:23:29Is it crazy to like uproot my life and go somewhere? No, it's not because it's a pretty simple equation and I'm not going to say that it's easy to do, but it's a simple equation here. You've got to find ways to either bring more money in or to reduce the amount that's going out.

1:23:46Rachel Cruze:And for you, you've reduced the amount going out. Yeah. That's what you said already. As much as you can. Exactly. So now we have to focus on other things. And for you, I mean, how much is your rent? I pay$16.90 for a one bedroom. Okay. That's a lot for a one bedroom for you with no. Like I have friends in San Antonio. I have friends in Columbus. Like I've been looking at rent there and it's like a thousand bucks. Yeah, that's a big deal. Get an extra 600 bucks a month. I mean, Dan, that's we laugh about the exodus out of California, but a lot of people do it because of taxes and how expensive it is.

1:24:20Rachel Cruze:They can't own a home. Right. They're just like we can't. It's what it feels like. And so there are places that you just say I cannot afford to live in this city with the income I'm making. And yeah, and that's a that's a very real adult decision. Now, do you have to do that? No, you could do what you're doing. It's just you're not going to financially thrive because you're in an expensive city. But if you say, yeah, but that's OK for the time being because of friends and family, then that's a choice you make, right? You don't get both. Or you say, hey, for maybe the next two to three years, I want to live somewhere else, see how I feel with this margin.

1:25:00Rachel Cruze:And actually, not that money brings happiness, but the fact that you can pay your bills and breathe and enjoy life. Like sometimes that's worth it to find a cost of living, a city with a cost of living that's lower than what you're experiencing right now. Yeah. Now the type of work you're doing, is that, are you kind of, have you hit a ceiling with that? Or are there other opportunities in that area that can expand your income? No, there's definitely more opportunities. So I used to work in hospitality management, like on property and recently moved into this role. So it's got a work-life balance.

1:25:37It's nice. So I'm new to this niche part of the field, but there are plenty of other opportunities as I continue to grow and develop my own skills. So that's another place that you can look. You know, you mentioned it sounds like you maybe took a bit of a pay cut to have a better work life balance. But again, that was a tradeoff you made. And so maybe that's a tradeoff that you make back and you work on site for a while, even though you have to go in office and even though, right, there's these things that aren't as convenient for you, but it might be worth it for you to knock out this debt. But if you weren't able to find work in San Antonio that's on site, lower cost of living, but you're earning more, right?

1:26:18Suddenly your whole world opens up. And it's not to say that you have to do that forever, but certainly do it in the time it's going to take you to pay off your debt.

1:26:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah, for a couple of years. And there's a lot of options that that brings. When you're debt free and you have margin in your life. Yeah, there's a lot more options that suddenly open up that actually could bring you some peace.

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1:27:57Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Lindsay in Chicago, Illinois. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome to the show. Hi, guys. How are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Good. So my husband and I of 14 years did all the way up to step seven. He then decided that he wanted a divorce. So my question is, how do I rebuild financial security alone with a fraction of what I would stay at home on for 14 years? So it's like a baby deer out here in the real world for me right now.

1:28:47How can I get back to a place of comfortability and financial freedom? Because I have had to get into debt since he filed for divorce. and I'm kind of just lost right now. So I'm just looking for some insight, maybe some direction on where to go from here.

1:29:06Rachel Cruze:Okay, I'm so sorry. Any kids? We have four kids. Okay. Four kids. And are they shared? Are they with you? They are primarily with me. They see him occasionally. Last year, he pulled in about$236 ,000. We had paid off over$100 ,000 worth of debt together and had about almost$75 ,000 in the bank when he filed for divorce. I got none of that. What did you get? Yeah, what did you get? I walked away with nothing. How? The divorce is still going through. It hasn't been finalized because he's fighting me for full custody. um he has not been ordered to pay me anything at all um they just won't order him to pay me anything why who won't that's the court system i've continuously asked for what does your attorney say and maintenance um i don't have an attorney lindsey you need to get an attorney i don't know the divorce law in in illinois but majority of states you have protection of assets right right yeah I just um I just honestly I can't afford it um I I make$3 ,300 a month um I have to ask my dad and my mom for help most months with things um and do your dad and mom help when you ask for it are they willing to help yeah yeah okay so if you said to them mom and dad I gotta get a lawyer because I'm about to walk out of a 14 year marriage with not yeah that's zero no Nobody in your life should say that that's a good idea.

1:30:52Rachel Cruze:Have you signed anything, Lindsay? No, no, I haven't. Okay, good. They have like an extra$100 a month. They're not wealthy people at all whatsoever. Tell us. It's not like I can call them and say I need, you know,$500. What about the home? Tell us about the home you lived in. Did he get the house too? He, oh gosh, okay. We lived in an RV for seven years. to pay off debt and do all the hard things. And then as soon as we were debt-free and it looked like life was going to kind of be what we had been dreaming about, that's when he decided that he wanted to start a new family with someone else. And we did not have a home.

1:31:37We didn't have a whole lot of assets, per se, just money in the bank. Just the$75 ,000. No retirement? Does he have a 401k?

1:31:46Rachel Cruze:he does yes which i will be going after we haven't even got to the mediation part like he you're saying we who's we i'm like him and i like okay he refuses to so you haven't even been to mediation what caused you to think that you weren't getting anything well i mean just like up to this point i'm not but i still have to like figure out how to survive in the meantime okay okay that's hopefully I will get something yes okay that's a different story um no that's good that's that's hopeful that's hopeful I thought that for some reason you closed this up and just walked away with nothing but you do still need a lawyer you do we need to we need to figure that out you can pay those fees when it's all done but um I would find yes for the sake of your children too because you're going to want to fight fight this yeah to make sure that he does not get full custody if That's what he's wanting.

1:32:38Rachel Cruze:So in the meantime, what kind of work are you doing to bring in the$3 ,300 a month? So I am a cake decorator. I door dash with my kids. I work at home jobs so that everything I do, I can do with the kids because I have them. How old is your youngest? Seven. Seven. Okay. Are they in school? Will they be starting schools back? They are. They just started school. Okay. That's a good thing. And how old is the oldest? Yeah. Uh, 14. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I think from, um, the work hours perspective, um, finding something that is, I would look for something stable with good benefits, um, for insurance purposes, um, you know, all of that.

1:33:24Rachel Cruze:And I'm just thinking out loud, I mean, anything from work from home, if you're able to, um, even a receptionist job at a dentist office, you know what I mean? like any type of admin. Something that aligns with the kids' schedule. Yes. That's kind of what I do from now. I'm a medical clinician. Okay. Yeah, and I work about 12 to 13 hours a day, I mean, depending on like what job I'm doing. So how are you only, what are you making then? How are you bringing home only$3 ,300? Well, my main job is I only make$15,$16 an hour. Okay. And then my other ones, are really dependent on like the cake decorating is oh yeah people take orders yep um and uh door dash is another one that so we've got a kids home for an hour babysat for my oldest but i try not to do that with them and then taking them door dashing past a certain hour just really isn't safe and so there's a lot of um i think i'm trying to do finding your core job i think we've got to start brainstorming on what we can do that can get you a higher pay than 15 an hour if there's something out there with your background with your skill set uh one thing we can send you is ken coleman's find the work you're wired to do and i think that can start generating some ideas of what might be out there with your education with your skill with your prior work experience because that's going to be a big part of this.

1:34:53Yeah.

1:34:54Rachel Cruze:And again, Lindsay, I hang my hat on you. You building the second chapter of your life out of a horrific heartache. It's terrible. I'm so sorry. I mean, it is. It's just horrible. Horrible. So you are what's going to be to change your life. But also, Lindsay, him making$236 ,000 a year, him paying child support. Some alimony. Like all of that is a very real thing because what you did in that household for 14 years to keep you guys afloat does have value. Yes. And states honor that to a degree. I don't know the specific divorce law in Illinois, so I'm not going to speak out of turn here. But you need to find an attorney, Lindsay.

1:35:36Rachel Cruze:And you may spend months after, you know, repaying or doing what you have to do. But I would fight for those kids. I would fight for what you deserve in this because you deserve something, Lindsay. Absolutely. Do not. Don't go quietly. You sound like a very kind, kind person. And in these, this is battle. Like it's so sad that it turns, divorce does though. I mean, it turns marriage into a business deal. And you're a business partner, Lindsay. That's how you have to think about this. And you deserve your cut of the business of what you guys created in that household. And that's going to be helpful.

1:36:11Rachel Cruze:But again, I hang my hat on you, number one, to change your life in the second chapter of your life. but then also you are owed something. So you need to fight for that. Okay. So hear us say that. And if you need anything, please call us back in that process because we're here for you, Lindsay. We're so, so sorry.

1:36:45Hey guys, George Campbell here. Our big Investing Essentials event is just one week away. It only happens once a year, and trust me, you don't want to miss this. If you're tired of sorting through all the conflicting investing opinions online, then join Dave Ramsey and me for this two-night virtual event to learn Dave's playbook for investing and wealth planning. We're going to break down 401ks, mutual funds, passing on wealth, and more. So join us next week, September 1st and 2nd. Tickets start at$199. Do not wait. Get yours today at ramseysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes.

1:37:36Rachel Cruze:One of the biggest mistakes that people make is thinking that they can skip having a will because they're too young, they're too healthy, they don't own enough. But listen, a will helps protect your family. It gives clear instructions and can keep your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted during a difficult time. So while they're already mourning, having a will laid out makes that process so much easier. So if you're ready to create one, go to mamabearlegal.com. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text quiz to 33789. And we can help you figure out an option that is best for your situation.

1:38:15Rachel Cruze:But again, anyone I would say 18 and older, you need a will. Now, this show, we obviously love to do. It's our jobs. We have fun doing it. But one of the best parts is seeing the transformation that happens. And when people call in and they say, you know, even, hey, I just started listening a couple months ago. I'm already on baby step three. And you can already start to see the progress and the change in their life. That is what we live for. We want you guys to win with money. And getting this show in front of as many people as possible so that they can have not just the hope that they can make a change, but even the plan and the tactical steps on how to do that.

1:38:54Rachel Cruze:So you guys are our best marketing engine. You really, really are. So we would love it if you would share the show. Make sure to tell your friends and family about it. Give us some comments, subscribe, all the things. It really does help us continue to grow this because we want people to learn how to live financially with a lot of peace and freedom and control. All right, let's go to the phones. And we have Geneva in Denver, Colorado. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me guys. Absolutely. How can we help? Hey, okay. So I found your show a few months ago and I really liked it and have kind of done some of the baby steps out of order.

1:39:36So I just want some advice on how to best organize my life moving forward. Perfect. Yes. Sweet. So I'm 26 years old. Currently, my only debt at the moment is$10 ,000 in student loans. About$15 ,000 of those loans were paid off last year while I was fully working full time, which is really nice. But I recently decided to leave my job for several reasons. And now the next step is I'm wanting to go back to graduate school and hopefully go into a different industry, in which I could be making some more money and be a little bit more happy and like passionate about my work. And so I had quit my full-time job.

1:40:21Now I'm working part-time and making$2 ,300 a month. My monthly expenses are about$1 ,800 a month. My tuition payments for my prerequisites right now are about$2 ,000 a semester. And I currently have about like$7 ,000 in an emergency savings fund. So my main question right now is, oh, and my current student loans, they're in forbearance that ends October 1st. So my question is, is it a wise decision to make a big move and dump a lot of my savings at my student loans right now and pay those off quicker? One more piece of the puzzle, sorry, bear with me. My dad has, you know, really graciously offered to help me with my student loans and has been.

1:41:11And so he has committed to paying another six grand of these loans off. Oh, wow. That's nice. Just as a gift or a loan? Yeah. A gift. Over what course of time? Huh? Over what period of time is he going to pay the 6k? To be honest, my dad is not the type to follow schedules. It's kind of like when he gets it, he gives it. And so part of that dynamic as well as like, I'm accepting that like, there may be a chance that that money doesn't come and I'll still have to pay it off. But like, sometimes it does, you know, which is a blessing. Okay, so this is kind of like a thought that counts thing that maybe you get it, maybe you don't.

1:41:49I would not. I would not wait around for that because it sounds like it could be. But I listen, it's the thought that counts. So let me just get this straight. So the part time work, are you doing part time work because of school or are you doing part-time work because you quit the other job and this is just the only job you have right now? Because it's going to be hard on 2300. Yeah, it's really both. Like one, I needed to make sure that I had time and a schedule that would allow me to take these prerequisites. And then the other reason was because, you know, this part-time work was a decent gig I could get to make that much money, you know, part-time.

1:42:28So how are you paying, how are you going to pay the 2k per semester because you don't have any margin to live on that's a that's a great question so the about 2k a semester they've offered me um subsidized student loans that I was like I could take it out there could you because you're calling us telling us that the debt is the problem yeah like is it even if it's like should I like even Should I even like take a step back from classes now and throw all my savings? You may want to pause a semester.

1:43:01Rachel Cruze:Six months, all of this changes, Geneva. If you worked full time. You got to work full time. Yeah, you doubled. Say you made$5 ,000 a month. You have$7 ,000. More like$3 ,600 a month. If you worked full time? Oh, sorry. I just was saying my last income working full time was about$3 ,600 a month. Okay, but you're doing part time at$2 ,300. Yes, correct. Is there a chance to double that? Oh, yeah, I can definitely I can definitely work more. I can add more hours. I get another job. So can we get to forty six hundred a month? That would be the goal. That'd be amazing. We could. The strategy I guess I'm going with is that I want to invest in trying to get a better job instead of playing the rat race.

1:43:47But maybe I'm jumping the gun. Well, you're not playing the rat race. What we're doing here, and I'm glad that you highlighted that, what we're doing is we're prioritizing the most important things first. So what I've heard you say so far is, and these are in no particular order, is it's important for you to pay off your debt. It's important for you to have a career that feels comfortable for you and that you enjoy doing and that you have passion about. going to school and it's important for you to go to school. Those are the three things that we care about. So now let's list them in order of priority that allows us to eventually do all three.

1:44:21So eventually, yeah, the debt I do think is number one, because this is just, it's going to keep growing and growing, especially as student loans, if we don't pay it off. Not that it's a ton, but let's just knock it out. So because of that, since if we make debt the number one priority, That means we have to work. And so it's not you joining the rat race. It's just you saying, hey, I'm going to work full time and I'm going to make$4 ,600 a month so I can knock out this debt. The faster I knock out the debt, the faster I can get back to school, which now has to be the number two priority. So once we pay off the debt, now we can reverse everything and go, okay, now school's a priority, which means if I have to work part time or a few less hours, I can do that.

1:45:00and then once school is done now of course we go back to prioritizing career again and you

1:45:05Rachel Cruze:you work your butt off in your new career yeah here's what's wild is okay so we're heading into september okay so let's say september one you throw six thousand at your debt you keep a thousand dollar emergency fund okay because you got seven thousand saved you have four thousand left to pay if you go and work full time and you still live on 1800 which is your is what you said you could live on. Yes. That's$3 ,400 of margin. So you basically could pay off your student loan in a month and a few weeks. Okay. We'll say, let's say, yeah, six weeks. We'll say two months, September, October, just to give you some grace.

1:45:40Rachel Cruze:Starting in November, you save that same amount. So you have$7 ,000,$8 ,000 if you include the$1 ,000 emergency fund going into January. And so you have for sure the$2 ,000 paid off, which is great. You have a buffer of$5 ,000. for an emergency fund. And then if you want to cut back some hours or take night classes, you could work full time and get these prereqs, right? You just start to see this snowball of cash start to happen when you actually direct it and have a very detailed plan for it. So you're, yeah, like you said, you're on the, you're going down the right road. I want to encourage you.

1:46:17Rachel Cruze:You are, your mindset is not off, but when you're trying to do six different things, it's really hard. You have savings here. You have some debt here. You're trying to go to school here. And if you just stop and say, I'm just going to focus on one thing at a time, I'm going to focus on paying off this debt. Check. I'm going to focus on getting my 2000 for school for the next semester. Check. Oh, and in the same month, I have some extra cash. I'm going to start saving for an emergency fund and you start doing it. Then the rat race doesn't become a rat race. It actually becomes the thing that's helping you get what you want.

1:46:50Rachel Cruze:You go to school, you start saving for after the prereqs, and you get a degree in what you actually want to work in. And then you go find a job, and we look up, and you're 28 and just debt-free and killing it. So that's our hope for you. So, yeah, you have the right mindset. I would just detail it out and timeline it out so that you have a lot of clarity.

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1:48:18Rachel Cruze:We're here in Franklin, Tennessee, where we do the show every day from 1 to 4 Central Time, Monday through Friday, here on The Glass. And the great thing is there's some coffee and treats and people come from all over and watch. We have a great we have some great people here today. So we're always grateful for that. And then over on the side, we have the debt free stage. And on it is Ben and Natalie. Welcome, you guys. Hello. Where are you guys from? We are from Peoria, Illinois. OK, how far? Where is that specifically? So a couple hours south of Chicago. OK, awesome. So great. Well, congratulations.

1:48:55Rachel Cruze:Thank you. Thank you. How much debt have you guys paid off? So we paid off$87 ,816 in 18 months. Wow. Oh my gosh. Making what kind of money during that time? So our first year of marriage, we started out at$35 ,341 was our first year. Okay. When we started paying off debt, we started at$70 ,000. Okay. And by the time we finished, we were at$152 ,000. Amazing, you guys. Oh, my gosh. In 18 months. Okay. What kind of debt was the$87 ,000? It was all student loans. Yeah. I feel it. I felt it in my bones. Sorry. That was a big response. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We knew Jade would like that. I do. I do. I can't help it.

1:49:37I can't stop it. Yep.

1:49:39Rachel Cruze:Amazing, you guys. Okay. So what happened 18 months ago that you all were like, we are so done with these student loans? Well, it's primarily my physical therapy school is what our loans were. So when I went into PT school, we were kind of planning on like once I was done, we're like, let's just pay it off right away. Okay, yes. So you guys were in school, I'm assuming, when you guys got married. That's why it was$35 ,000. We got married, got home from our honeymoon, and a couple days later, she started her doctorate program. Wow. Just right in. Yes. And how long did that take? Three years. It was three years.

1:50:15Rachel Cruze:Okay, so you guys have been married, what, about five-ish? A little over five, yeah. Okay, amazing. Yeah. So you guys were in school for a little bit. You came out of school and you were like, we're going to attack this debt. Yeah. We got this new salary we're both working and we're just going to go for it. Yeah. It was, we, the first year we were working, it was just me working. I didn't go to grad school. So it was just me. And so we just pretended that we didn't have Natalie's income. That's great. And we just said, you know what? This is all going to go towards loans and we'll get to enjoy it later.

1:50:43But we just pretended it was just my income for as long as we could. And it worked really well. Wow. I mean, how did you both align that this would even be the plan? Like what caused you both to get on the same page so quickly? Yeah. So I mean, I grew up listening to the Dave Ramsey show. My parents would listen to it on the radio. And so I was familiar with it. And when she started school, we were pretty set on, hey, when we're done, we're knocking this out. And it really, I didn't feel like it was hard for us to get aligned. We had a shared vision of we want to be generous. We want to be able to give.

1:51:16We don't want the stress of these loans. And it really didn't take much fighting. Yeah, no. No. And I mean, it brought us together. It was awesome working towards a goal together. It was great for our marriage. That's amazing.

1:51:31Rachel Cruze:So in that 18 months, what would you say was the most surprising thing about the debt-free journey? And what was the hardest part of it? Yeah. I would say probably the hardest was we have a lot of like friends who were buying their first house. or like going on vacations. And we were like, we're not doing any of that because we want to get this debt done. And so I think it was like a little bit hard to feel like we were out of place or just not doing what our friends were doing. Yes, totally. But now we're like, we're debt free. So we can just save and do it. Yeah, for sure. Making 150 a year and just, yeah.

1:52:08Rachel Cruze:Enjoying life with no payments. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And what was the surprising part? Well, yeah, we can. I think, well, the biggest surprise was we were probably about three months away from paying off and we said yes to taking our foster daughter, actually. And so that was kind of like a big loop for us of like, OK, we need to really get this done because we got to finish. You got a little family. Right after we got her, we got her in December. We finished in March. And then actually in July, we got a call for her sister. So now we have her sister. And so I think like that was the biggest surprise that we weren't planning.

1:52:49Rachel Cruze:But then we were so glad we had already made all this headway on our debt. And so now we can just enjoy our family. And we're also adding a boy in December. So in October. Oh, you're pregnant. Yeah. Oh, my God. So we'll have three kids in the span of 10 months. So that's probably the biggest surprise. That is a lot. That's not just a surprise. Holy smokes. Wow. Oh my gosh. How great though. And how amazing that you did all of just like the hard charging work before all of this. And now financially, it's like, okay, we don't even have to think about it. Like we, you have a great job. You know, you guys are working hard and the money piece, it doesn't have to be a stress point because of what you guys did.

1:53:34Rachel Cruze:Yeah. We were talking this morning, like we don't feel like we would have been able to say yes to our girls if we would have still had all this debt. And so just that the Lord sustained us, got us through it. So now we can be generous with our time and feel like we can just say yes and do that. It's been a really big blessing for us. Yes. Well, I'll tell you the foster care world, you guys are, you're doing the Lord's work. You really are. Well, he's sustaining us. We'd be up a creek without. I know, but that is truly the hands and feet of Jesus in today's world. So thank y 'all for, that's just amazing.

1:54:07Rachel Cruze:Gosh, how incredible you guys. Okay. So married five years, did this journey together. Yes. What would you tell couples out there that maybe are newlyweds that are younger? Maybe they're coming out of school with some student loans. What would you say if they look at like, OK, I'm going to have this for 10 years. It is what it is. We're probably going to get car loans. We're going to just do the normal way with money versus kind of this extreme other side of like we're actually going to pay off debt and stay out of debt. What kind of encouragement would you give someone listening? Yeah. I mean, just get after it.

1:54:37It is so freeing. I mean, being done and just we, like Natalie said, it was such an easy yes taking our girls knowing we have this freedom. But if you have that crushing weight of we owe this every month and somebody else has a claim to your income, you don't have the freedom to say, yeah, I want to be outrageously generous with your time, with your money, with your talents. And it just gives you margin to be generous. Yeah, it's just it's not worth kicking it down the road. I mean, the level of freedom, just our first day, I remember paying it off. And I mean, that whole day, just walking around just felt lighter.

1:55:12I mean, it was just, it was a Friday. We got paid. We made that final payment. And I was like, oh my gosh, Natalie, we're done. Because I mean, every week we would get paid Friday and we would just say, okay, huge debt payment. And I mean, we were down to the 1000 emergency fund and we just said, okay, we're going to scrape by for two more weeks and get paid and make another payment. And I mean, it was just how little can we live on? And I mean, yeah, now getting to keep it and use it to bless. And it's awesome. We are so thankful.

1:55:41Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And I think, too, I would just say, like, it can be daunting and seem like a really hard thing. But because we went through this hard thing early in our marriage, we now feel like we know how to go through hard things. Yes, that's right. Later on, like, becoming parents and all the ups and downs that come with that. And so, like, I know, well, we went through this as a team and we've practiced that muscle. And so we can do it for anything that comes our way in our marriage with the Lord. So I love that, that it does. It's so incredible. It sustains. It does. You know, you start to build something together and that's what's so unifying about it.

1:56:17Rachel Cruze:When you go through the hard together, that's the story that you all have. So incredible. You guys. Oh, absolutely amazing. All right. Well, we got Ben and Natalie from Illinois. They paid off$87 ,816, all in student loans in 18 months, making$70 at the start of this journey, and ended at$152. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear your big debt-free scream. All right. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

1:56:53Rachel Cruze:Oh, I love it. Oh, my gosh. So good. I just love a story like that I think it's just a reminder that If you're going through this journey It's never just for you In the moment it feels like Oh this debt is crushing me Your world can close in But when you go through this journey So many people have the ability to benefit From your sacrifice And I mean we're seeing that in spades With them and their family And it's just Incredible Two foster girls and a little boy on the way. I mean, just, it just unfolds. It feels like so perfectly. So incredible. Congratulations, Ben and Natalie. Y 'all are awesome.

1:57:57Thank you.

1:58:08Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:59:01Rachel Cruze:All right. Our scripture of the day is John 15, 5. I am the vine. You are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing. Amen. Hallelujah. I know that's right. The evidence of fruit. That's what we look for these days. Do you have the fruit of the spirit? Peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness. That's what we need. And you know who embodied that, Jade? Miss Dolly. Miss Dolly. I had a quote from some guy. I don't know who it was. So I just, I'm going rogue. I just chat GPT. I was like, I need a Dolly Parton quote. Because this woman, and again, we're here in Nashville.

1:59:39Rachel Cruze:and she just was a jewel to anyone and everyone. Her reputation is exactly what you believe she is. She was amazing. So the first one that came up, that's what I'm going to quote because I had to do it pretty quick. If you want the rainbow, you got to put up with the rain. That's a fact. That's what we teach every day. It is it. It is it that you're going to, there's going to be struggle. There's going to be hard. But at the end of the day, what it creates is beauty. And that's the part that I think people miss is when you go through a season of sacrifice, you go through a season of maybe marriage-wise, you're combining accounts for the first time and you kept it separate for so long because you fought too much.

2:00:19Rachel Cruze:And you're like, you know what? No, we're going to unite. And it's going to be tough. Like there's some tough things. And when you push through those, just like our debt-free couple, it's like on the other side of that, you're stronger and you see the beauty in it. Yes. And you don't always appreciate the beauty unless you have the reign. So Dolly, we appreciate that. Yes, I love that. That's a great quote. in my back pocket. Yes, that's right. All right, let's go to Marius in Detroit. Hi, welcome to the show. Yes, hi there. How are y 'all doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Good to hear.

2:00:52Thank you so much. Yep. So I'm 25 years old. I'm in a bad financial situation right now, but there might be a way out. So maybe you guys could help me out with that. So let me lay that out for y 'all really quick. So I have$9 ,000 right now in credit card debt. I'm a bunch, sorry I'm behind on a bunch of those payments I have a car payment as well I still owe$21 ,000 on my car and the car payment is$420 a month my credit score is not good at all it's 480 and I've been self-employed for the last few years so it went very well at one point and it took a turn for the worst the last year or so so I have kind of played around with the idea of bankruptcy, but this is where there could be a way out instead of that.

2:01:36So I've got a buddy that basically I've talked to him. He laid out all the details for me. He could get me a job that is basically ready for me to start in two weeks. I'll be paying$6 ,000 a month salary position. Amazing. So my question to you guys is, yes, thank you so much. I'm really excited about it. So my question is, with that$6 ,000 coming in every single month, so I have the car payment, which I still owe$21 ,000 on and I have the$9 ,000 in the credit card, that payment. How do you guys think I should juggle that if I should kind of like save up and pay it all like in bulk or if bankruptcy is still on the table or like what do you guys think?

2:02:11Well, I definitely don't think that bankruptcy should be on the table for you because the solution is just income. And you don't need a massive income. You just need an average income would really solve this. And it's just you or is there kids? Is there a wife, girlfriend? Is there anybody else in the picture we need to know about? No, ma 'am. It is just me. Okay. I'm not renting out my own apartment or anything. I'm staying with some family right now. Staying with family. I don't have to pay rent.

2:02:39Rachel Cruze:Okay. I have two questions real quick. One, has the credit cards gone to collections yet? Yes, I believe so. They have. Okay. Okay. And then the car, how much is the car? If you sold it, how much could you get for it? um so i did receive a uh like uh basically cash like ran off before but it's less than what i owe i think it was 17 or 18 000 that's not bad yeah was that from kelly blue book or who what was that from that was um i brought it into i think it was echo parker caravana like one of those where you could like bring trader car and that's what they told me that's good because that means if you did a private sale you'd break even yeah you may be able just a yep exactly you may be able to get, just get that.

2:03:20Rachel Cruze:And so I'm wondering, um, probably what I would do because you're, you're going to feel that 420 a lot. So I think my goals would be, um, and you can kind of do all this simultaneously. I would be contacting the creditors, um, or the collection, whoever, whoever has the debt on the credit card. And you usually can, it may take a couple of calls, but you can sometimes settle with them if you have the cash. So I think I would have a goal probably in the next few months. Once you start the$6 ,000 job, I mean, can you live off of$2 ,000 a month? Yes, I can. Because the only real expense I have is that car payment.

2:04:03Rachel Cruze:Okay, amazing. So let's just go crazy and let's say$5 ,000. I don't know. All your income except your food. Yeah, I mean, like seriously, let's just go just for the heck of it, okay? Okay. So what I would do is I would save that I would call the credit card companies in 30 days and say, Hey, I have 2 ,500 bucks. I have$3 ,000. I can settle with you today. And over and over and over and over again. And hopefully at some point, they're going to make you an offer. And you're like, that's great. And get it in writing. Yep. Credit card is done. Okay, so check the next month, I would save another$5 ,000.

2:04:35Rachel Cruze:Okay. And at the same time, be looking to sell this$21 ,000 car for around$21 ,000. If you're short a thousand or two, that's okay. Cause you're going to have it cause you're going to have extra$5 ,000 coming in. So do that and then save up some money and go buy a$5 ,000 car. Like you can do all of this in three months. A really short time. A really short time. So bankruptcy is not even in your universe. It's not even in your universe. So I wouldn't even consider that. You're just feeling, you're feeling overwhelmed and you know, you're young, you're 25. and you've just like the weight of your decisions just hit you like a ton of bricks, I think.

2:05:12And you're realizing I can't keep going on like this. And so it's good that that happened. That's how we learn. And everybody hits that point financially, unless you were brought up, well, you know, like our debt-free scream, unless you were brought up in the ways of Dave Ramsey, a lot of, that's how we learn. And so I don't want you to beat yourself up about it or spend much more time, but I do want you to pivot hard out of this and do exactly what Rachel said. because if you mess around with this, it's gonna stay on you, right? Every time you make that$420 car payment, things get harder and harder for you.

2:05:44So the faster that you do this, it is, like I said, going from one direction completely to the other. And you're gonna feel the whiplash of that when you get that first paycheck and it's all going onto the debt. I do wanna ask about that. How solid is that job? Like, this is not just a buddy being like, yeah, man, I got something for you. Or is this like a legit real deal, not a, you know, scam thing? Right. Yeah, no. Yeah, that's definitely an important factor. And yes, it is legit. It is for a fiber optics company to basically do like underground drilling. Okay. And they need someone kind of like on the back end in the office because I've had jobs like that.

2:06:21Like basically doing all the invoices, like managing crews, things like that. Okay. And you have experience in that? Yes, ma 'am, I do.

2:06:28Rachel Cruze:Okay, good, good, good. I love that. Marcus, I love that you got that. I think this is great. I mean, honestly, as you call in, you're like, I'm behind on credit cards. I got this car. I don't know what to do. I'm self-employed. You feel like you haven't had consistent income. And literally in the next three months, your debt could be gone. You could look up in April, Marcus, and you could have$20 ,000 saved in an emergency fund. Yeah, why wouldn't you? And then you go down the baby steps. You've paid off your debt. You have an emergency fund. You start investing 15 % of your income into retirement.

2:06:56Rachel Cruze:and what's wild about all this is when you actually like run the numbers out and let's just say yeah through a thousand bucks a month okay of investing which is a little bit more probably than um at that point what we recommend but let's just do it for fun 25 to 67 marcus if you just if you made that your habit you'd have 10.7 million dollars sitting in investments at 67 yeah right And let's say you're like, I don't want 67. Give me 59. All right. Let's see what 59-year-old Marcus. 4.4 million. That's great. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it is shifting from the mindset of, oh, I'm going to be paying people to I'm going to pay myself.

2:07:35Rachel Cruze:And that, to me, always is so motivating. Absolutely. Don't make the banks rich, Marcus. And you're so young. I keep calling you Marcus Marius. Marius. I'm sorry. I keep calling you Marcus Marius. I apologize. I apologize. But for real, like, stop making other people wealthy. These credit card companies and car companies. I'm like, no, you, you can do this. So take advantage for sure of this opportunity, of this job. And then also, you know, start dreaming about what 28, 30 year old Marius wants to be. Right. From a career standpoint. And this should be a turning point for you. Not just in, I'm paying off my debt, but it's a new lifestyle change.

2:08:13Like who you are has changed. You're no longer, we say over here, the borrower is slave to the lender. And you're choosing a new identity to be a person that doesn't borrow money from this point on.

2:08:23Rachel Cruze:and the power of what happens when you get your income back. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, great hour, Jade. Always fun hosting with you. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our wonderful audience that's here today. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.