Stop Looking for Shortcuts and Make Progress with Your Money

22:51George Kamel:Who actually cares about your budget instead of going, well, it's a little bit outside of your budget, but. The real estate agent cared more about my family member than the sale. And it was evident. It was awesome. Walking into a house and be like, nope, we're leaving. I'm not even letting you look at this house because they didn't tell the truth on the ad or whatever. It was amazing, right? Listen, you want a good real estate agent in your corner. Connecting is easy. I want you to compare agent profiles using Ramsey Trusted and interview your top choices and pick the right agent for you. Find a local Ramsey Trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for free at RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

23:33Let's roll out to Gulfport, Mississippi and talk to AMY. What's up, Amy? Hey, how are you? We're doing great. How are you? Doing good. Thanks for taking my question. You bet. How can we help? Well, my husband and I are having a disagreement about what costs we're covering for our youngest daughter. She's in college, sorry. We have three kids. Our oldest is completely on her own and employed, and our middle and youngest are both in college. Our youngest chose to go the farthest away to State University, but it's one of the more expensive ones in the area. And her tuition is mostly covered with scholarships, and we don't really have to worry about that much, but since her second year of school, we've been covering her living expenses, so her apartment and utilities, that sort of thing.

24:36So what's the fight between you and your husband about? So from the beginning with all of our kids, we told them that they need to start planning from a young age how they're going to pay for school, whether they are in the military or get scholarships or play a sport, whatever it is, they will be responsible for their school. And we would help them, but we wouldn't. They're all fairly close in age, so in theory, all of them could have been in college at the same time. So we said don't plan on mom and dad paying because we probably won't be able to. So the first two were good to go. And the youngest one, it seems like she just keeps having more expenses, more expenses.

25:18and she calls daddy and says, daddy, I can't pay for it. And he always pays for it. And you know why her expenses keep going up? Sorry to cut you off. You know why? Why? Because they can. Her line of credit keeps increasing.

25:36George Kamel:Yeah. Because the bank says, yeah, I got more money. Exactly. And y 'all used very vague language with underdeveloped frontal lobes. That was my nerdy way of saying your kids. Living expenses is the most vague term of all time. Or so is, we'll help. We won't pay for all of it, but we'll help. Right? Right. And probably you're in a different financial situation with the youngest one than you were with the oldest one. Is that fair? The two youngest, it's pretty much the same because they're only a year apart. You and your husband got to get on the same page, and then you all have to be radically crystal clear with your daughter.

26:13That's it. and I have been um I think his his um challenge we both neither of us when we were their age had much and um we paid you know worked like crazy and made our way through college and he eventually joined the military because um he wasn't able to pay for his expenses so now he doesn't want to see them struggle and that's why he keeps giving in so every time we talked about it i end up being like the the worst mom in the world and just not being fair let me give you a picture okay um i think struggle connected to love is one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids kids can struggle through a ton of stuff they just it doesn't do them good long term to struggle alone.

27:07Okay. So here's the picture. I want you to sit down with your husband. The world is a weight room and you're, you and your husband had to walk into this weight room of life alone and figure out how to lift those weights. And the world kept adding plates on there and making it heavier. And y 'all had to figure out how to get stronger. What your daughter is experiencing is she walks in there and says, Hey, this is really heavy. And your husband's running in there and pushing her off the bench and he's lifting it. Right. That's nice. It is protecting her from harm. It is making sure she's going to walk out into the world with no strength.

27:48Right. So it's a long-term disservice to continue to bottomless pit, bail her out. And it's a disservice for y 'all two to not be aligned and not be clear. Right?

28:02George Kamel:So that's step one, is both of you need to be aligned because right now she's going, well, dad's going to definitely do this. I'll just call dad. Which then makes you the bad guy, right? That's not fun for either of you. And it's going to cause resentment between you and your husband. So here's what I would do. It's also cruel to say, we're cutting you off today. This can't go on and on. You've got to land the plane for her. Land the plane. So say, hey, starting this fall, we're going to change things up. I'm sorry we weren't clear. Or starting at Christmas, probably. Here's what we're going to do.

28:27George Kamel:We're going to cover your rent, utilities, and meal plan directly. We will not be sending you money. We will pay for those directly. anything beyond that, you're going to work part-time if you want to afford it. That's not cruel. And here's what has to happen. She 100 % will blow through that budget. Why? Because she always has, and y 'all have always bailed her out. You have to look across the table and say, we will not bail you out. And then when she calls and says, I need money for it, you're going to have to say, sorry, honey, you have to go get a job. You're going to have to work more hours.

28:59You're going to have to cut back. You're going to have to hold the line. Otherwise, your boundaries are a waste of breath. Give her whatever she wants. But Georgia and I can't decide what you and your husband's values are. Pay for everything if you want. Just be honest about it. Or just pay for rent. Or just pay for groceries. Or just pay for car insurance. Or just pay for the cell phone bill. Every family's different. Every parent's different values. But man, you and your husband got a line here on that deal. Right. And that's really our main problem. And he doesn't want to pay for everything.

29:27When we discuss it, he doesn't want to pay for everything. but he also doesn't want to tell her that he's not going to because he doesn't want what just doesn't want her to struggle i get that i get that that's his own his own guilt and shame i'm the dad of a daughter too i i don't when she comes in in this morning she's my wife's out of town she said hey dad can we have ice cream for breakfast and i said yes why because i'm a weak coward i wimped out this morning and my daughter and i had an ice cream cone for breakfast mainly because I wanted one and she was a good avenue for that. But here's the thing.

30:02I don't want her to struggle. And if I take her struggle from her, I'm robbing her. I'm robbing her of her dignity. I'm robbing her of her ability to get strong. And I'm robbing her of adversity, which she's gonna need in a world that is spun out of control, right?

30:18George Kamel:She's not in crisis. She's not about to be in the street. We're not being cruel here. It's just this is a part of the journey. Everyone in college should have to struggle. She has some skin in the game. It's an awkward, frustrating time. And I worked part time while I was in college. I survived it. And it gave me a work ethic that I've carried to this day. Right. So this is first, this is a marriage problem more than anything else. Way more. I don't blame your daughter for any of this. No. But it's going to be, it might be a rude awakening at first. And later on, she's going, you know what? I'm really glad mom and dad did that.

30:48George Kamel:Because I wouldn't be where I am today. You and your husband come up with a plan for when your daughter calls and says, but dad, Y 'all already agree We're going to go out and get ice cream You're on speakerphone together from now on Yeah, exactly

31:33Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwinds Credit Union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y 'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you've got$20 ,000 saved. You might earn around$70 a year, but with a fair-winds high-yield savings account earning 3 % APY or more, that same money could earn you over$600.

32:15And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the smart bundle from Fairwinds Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no fee checking account, and the Ramsey BeWeird debit card. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

32:48All right, let's roll out to Greensboro, North Carolina and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie? Hi there. How are you doing? I'm good. I hope you guys are. We're doing great. Are you staying in trouble? Good. I'm trying to. Good. So what's up? I am calling because we have lived in our house for about 34 years. We own the house. it's a house and a one acre lot. We own the 1.2 acres on the other side of us. We have for 30 years. And just now the lot on the other side of us went up for sale. So we have been looking at that lot or hoping to buy it for years. It was in a will. It was the woman who owned it died and she, and so the heirs own it and they've just decided to put it up for sale.

33:46So we're wondering, I'm wondering, is this something that I could get a, that I could, I'm wondering how to finance it and if I should even buy it.

33:59George Kamel:I guess that's my question. Where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt? Do you have emergency savings? I have no debt. I have about$12 ,000 in savings. I've got a$90 ,000 401k. I've got about$155 ,000 in a brokerage account. Okay. So. And what's your real estate worth? Probably$400 ,000. And it's all paid for? No mortgages? Yes. No, no. Does your husband have his own retirement plan? Or is that y 'all's combined? No, I'm a widow. My husband died about four years ago. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. How much is this land? They are asking 50, well, they're actually asking 60 ,000. Oh. But we know we could get it for about 50.

34:49George Kamel:And you've got that money in your brokerage account. I do. I see here the word finance is on the board and it always gives me a little, you know, spidey sense tingling. Yeah, it gives me pause. I haven't had a mortgage for so long that I just, I'm really, oh, I don't want to borrow money ever. Well, you don't have to. Why don't you just pay cash? Well, that's what I wonder. Is that a smart thing to use that money for? I would do that today. If I was in your exact situation, I would do that. It's not a huge portion of your world. How old are you? I'm 62, and that's kind of part of the problem. How do you plan on retiring?

35:29George Kamel:What's the game plan? Um, well, I'm going to work for probably several more years just because I want to. Okay. Um, and then social security, I make about$56 ,000. So I take home about$3 ,600 a month. Okay. And what are your expenses every month? Anywhere between$17 ,000 and at the very most$2 ,000. Great. So you've got plenty of margin in the budget. And have you done the research on what the property is going to cost you long term? Yes. And property tax wise, my all my full property tax right now are about nineteen hundred and fifty dollars. A year. A year. People are mad at you across America.

36:15George Kamel:Texans just got their swords out. I know. And to me, that's one month for a Texan. OK, the one month. Well, let me tell you, it just went up$800. So we had a reassessment. And so$1 ,900 to me is like, what? Yeah. What are you going to do with the lot? Nothing. Not have neighbors? What's the end goal here? The end goal, well, and the really, really important part of a reason for getting the property is because this area is being developed. It's a road that everybody would love to have. and have it be commercial eventually someday. But there's also 57 acres behind me that somebody could buy that property and turn it into a road so they could get access to that property.

37:06There's also, I know that the last thing the people that are selling it talked about doing with it was putting a couple trailers on it. I mean, either way, it affects me dramatically, I think.

37:17George Kamel:Yeah. I think at this price point, the fact that you can pay cash, it's not a huge part of your world. Obviously, we've got to catch up on the retirement side. But if you plan on working for the foreseeable future and chunking that margin away into retirement accounts, then I'll give you the green light on this one. Wow. Anytime I find myself in a situation like this, I always want to throw a couple more variables just to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So can I throw one or two at you? Absolutely. Sell everything and go buy a condo closer to town. Oh, that's what my sons would say. For$300 ,000, a nice one, and don't have any more yard work ever again.

37:56Own your place. You'd put$2 ,000 plus$50 ,000. You'd put$300 ,000, a quarter million dollars in your cash reserves for your retirement. Right. And you walk away from this whole mess. Let them do whatever they want to with it. Oh, gosh. That's so sad to think about just because I've been here, raised my kids here. I get that. I get that. Now we've got grandkids here.

38:22George Kamel:Are you alone out there now? I am. How close is family? Oh, everybody's about within five miles, maybe 20 miles at the most. So, I mean, I have everybody right here. So, memories are a big thing. Having a place for the kids to go run a play is a big thing. And thinking about future you. Yeah, I know. Thinking about lawn care and mowers and somebody behind you. I just had somebody buy a whole bunch of raw land right behind my place. And I'm not super excited about it. I bet not. I mean, I could easily see a neighborhood back there someday. That's right. And so if the opportunity is, let's just sell it and walk away from the whole thing.

39:04And there's developers out there that will overpay for it right now. And they might be able to buy the whole chunk. They can buy that 60 lot. They can buy your other lot. and plus your house.

39:14George Kamel:Somebody would love it. My neighbors would hate me. Well, it sounds like a problem for your neighbors. You can make them muffins or something. I don't know. I want you just to have a conversation. You can write her a letter. You can just have a quiet conversation with 75-year-old you. Yep, that's a good conversation too. Because nobody can take the memories from you that you've had in that house. Nobody can take the love your husband and you shared in that house. Nobody can take the adventures your kids had in that house. And 75-year-old you gets to own her to have a voice in what happens next too.

39:53Yeah. That's a good thought. It's a great plan B. So I'm not trying to tell you to do that. I just want to make it uncomfortable for you so you at least think about, hey, I'm not stuck either buying this or not buying this. There's other things I can do too, right?

40:06George Kamel:There just wasn't a whole lot of vision and intentionality. It was just like, well, it's available now, and I've been wanting it, and it'll avoid some potential future problems. Right. Yeah, yeah. I just don't want any, you know, I don't want anything to change. I don't want anything, you know. It's changed. It's already changed. Yeah, the one constant in your life, the one constant is things are going to change. Yeah. And so as much as you can be in the driver's seat of that change, the better. Okay. Because it's going to happen in and around you. If you can get yourself in a great position, that'd be awesome.

40:42Yes. Okay. I hope my boys aren't listening to this call because they're going to be like, see, we told you. Yeah. Listen, one of the greatest gifts we all have are people who love us and see our blind spots. Yeah. And if you have two young boys, or they're not young boys, they're young men. Oh, God, no. Yeah. If they're saying, hey, mom, we love you, and we think this is best for you long term, at least give them an audience. At least give them an audience. I know that can be humbling to do for aging parents, but unless they're trying to, I don't know, George. Connive? Yeah, yeah.

41:21George Kamel:John, you love dirt more than most people I know. So the fact that you're telling her to go to the big city. I had neighbors on one side. They had like 25 acres. I tried to get it. I hadn't sold that many books. And I'm actively trying to buy a lot next to me now. So I get that impulse. And if I can have some sort of control about who's going to be around me, I'm all in on that. But I'm also not 62. I'm also not completely alone out in the woods. I know what the maintenance and upkeep of being out in the woods is. And it's never ending. Well, there's a reason your wife also wanted a place in society.

41:58Right. Yeah. She wants a cell signal and running water all the time. So needy. I know. I married such a modern woman. But yeah.

42:09George Kamel:She keeps you alive. That's right. You'd be out in the woods somewhere like a feral animal if it wasn't for her. I would not be here if it wasn't for her. We'll be back. Love you guys.

42:43Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information? Things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives' names? You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I use Delete Me because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places, then suddenly all that information shows up on random websites and removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours and then it can even pop up somewhere else again.

43:21But Delete Me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey and get 20 % off your annual plan. That's joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey.

43:57welcome back to the ramsay studio in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm john deloney joined by george and we are getting high on our own supply let's go out to portsmouth new hampshire and talk to avery what's up avery hi john hi george from boston great hello i apologize

44:15George Kamel:for john it's portsmouth and he knew that but he was just being funny wait what is it portsmouth Portsmouth, yes. Portsmouth. Here's the thing. Right between New Hampshire and Massachusetts, it gets all funky with the sound. Imagine Ben Affleck saying, I'm from Portsmouth. Okay, but listen. In Texas, we say all the words. So we say, like, if there was a town in Texas, it would be called Louisville. And when I said the word Louisville up here in Tennessee, you would have thought, like, it's Louisville. It's one syllable, Louisville. And so when I see Portsmouth, I would name my town Portsmouth, but I didn't know it's called.

44:48What's it called? Portsmouth. Portsmouth.

44:51George Kamel:Just Smith instead of Smouth. That's all. Neither here nor there. We're here to help Avery. Yeah, what's up, Avery? Because we're not going to solve this spelling dilemma. It's my OCD. Yeah, you know me. What's up? All right, rip it, Avery. My question is, how do I stop letting fear about my financial future consume me as a single Pringle Gen Z person? Here is more of my backstory. I'm 24, debt-free, never had debt. I'm on baby step 3B, saving for a home down payment. I'm an accountant making$63 ,000 a year. I'll have my CPA licensed by June 2028. And in my family, I am the finance nerd to the point where every single day, I feel like all I'm doing is working and obsessing over finances.

45:40I feel like I just am in my thoughts a lot, very much spiraling. I wonder how am I going to get by the rest of my life continuing to go down this good financial path as a single person because I grew up in a single parent household. And so I saw a lot of those struggles in our own household. The other day I was wondering how am I ever going to get by if I don't even know how to ask for raises at work and continue to advocate for myself. So it's a lot of spiraling and anxiety around that. And I just don't know how to how to solve that. And I'd love to get your counsel. Let me jump in here. So I want you to flip this entire script, okay?

46:22Okay. What if, and I think this is probably true to a large extent, what if your body's right? What if your body has a very real lived experience of growing up in a single parent home where sometimes the lights might get cut off or get really close, where your mom was always scratching and clawing to keep you all fed. And now you're a young adult out into a world in a great profession that, by the way, everybody on planet Earth is saying AI is going to take it away. What if your body's alarm system was going off because it was working perfectly? What if you're not crazy is what I'm trying to say?

47:10then what we have to do is we have to get beneath the spiraling because the spirals don't help rumination is a complete and utter waste of time and contrary to popular belief and instagram therapists you can practice over time to take back control of your thoughts okay and i know this because i've done it i was a spiraling mess they used to call me the spiral because, dude, I'd get going and, man, I could unwind any conversation and everyone would walk away being like, oh, it's all coming down now. You just have to decide what I want to focus my attention on. And you have to ask your body, what are you trying to protect me from?

47:52Your body's got a real, like, it's got a lived experience. And let me tell you this. You're doing the right things at 24, some of them, okay? Here's what they are. You're really getting control of your finances. You don't owe anybody any money. That's good. you are working towards credentials so you can help other people. Knuckleheads like me and George, we use the same tax guy. You know why? We don't know how to do it. You're going to be there for guys like us. That's awesome. Okay. And not only are you there for guys like us, you're there for our families. That's amazing. Okay. So you're doing the right things there.

48:24Let me ask you other questions. Who, what, what friends do you hang out with regularly? Um, so I have a lot of Christian Catholic friends up here. I'm part of a really good young adults group. Otherwise, I feel like I keep my distance. I tend to notice I isolate myself a lot unless there's something that happens to happen. And I'm like, okay, fine, I'll go. Let me tell you this. Your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night knowing you don't have a gang. Because you're all you got. And so instead of – usually people call on the show and we're telling them how to get out of debt.

49:04for you, I want you to make a commitment to yourself not to get out of debt. You've already done that hard work. I want you to make a commitment that once a week, twice a week, I'm going to put something on the calendar where I go put myself in the company of other people. And I'm going to go practice not wearing a mask. You know why? Because I'm worth being friends with because I'm quirky and weird and I'm a numbers nerd. But you know what? There's other folks out there like me. You get what I'm saying? I do. And if you're interested in a romantic relationship, which I'm pretty high on them because I'd be a worthless loser without mine, then start saying yes to things.

49:47Put yourself out with other people. I tell people under the age of 30, I want you in your apartment or in your home only to sleep.

49:57George Kamel:Okay. Like get out and see the world and experience the world because all of your ruminating can't do anything about macroeconomic policy can it all of your ruminating won't do one thing on some foreign country's crypto policy will it all of your anger and rage won't change the gas prices at the pump right now will it no and so let's go let's go do the things that we can do how what's the state of your health um i'm in good health i'm not very active and i'd like to be better at it there you go like i don't have a lot of discipline okay so my life so your body would be failing you if it knows we're not on a good trajectory when it comes to movement so we're not moving our bodies we're going to move internally so make a commitment to me and george i don't know and a couple million other people listening in i'm gonna go to the gym three three days a week i'm gonna go for a walk in the morning, three days a week.

50:52Okay. You get what I'm saying? And so I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-anxious life. Um, it's, it's a book I wrote a few years ago about this exact thing. And here's how I know this so intimately. Not only have I sat with a jillion people who experienced exactly what you're experiencing, I've been there. It's a nightmare. Okay. When you feel betrayed by your own body, your own mind. And I want to tell you on the other side of this thing. Can you imagine this with me? It takes me about two minutes. I think that's my sleep latency, which is nerd talk for two minutes or less for my head to hit the pillow and I'm out.

51:26Can you imagine that? I promise. I know. I know. I promise. I used to take medicine to go to sleep, medicine to wake up. I promise that's there for you. Okay. But you got to do that kind of work.

51:39George Kamel:And congrats on your finances. You're crushing it, Avery. Are you, are you doing a written budget? I imagine a spreadsheet every month? I'm doing a budgeting app. Unfortunately, not every dollar I have. You need a budget. That's why you're having anxiety. But no, here's my challenge. Regardless of what app you're using, don't look at it for 30 days. Yes. Try that out. I'm telling you not to budget for 30 days. Don't open Excel for 30 days. Because I think Avery doesn't trust herself, and I'm going to prove to you that you are trustworthy when it comes to your finances and your future. You're doing so good.

52:13George Kamel:Hang on the line, we're going to get you hooked up with that free book.

52:45You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

53:28This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. so you know they'll be there when you need them. Xander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

54:18All right, let's go out to Not Christopher, Columbus, Ohio, and talk to Brian. What's up, Brian? Hi. How we doing, brother? Good, good. I have a question. Should I lower my 401k contributions to pay off some debt?

54:39George Kamel:Yes. Next question. Yeah. Not lower it. Stop it. Yeah, stop completely. How much credit card debt do you have? $8 ,000 right now. $8 ,000, okay. And how much are you contributing to retirement every month? I just raised it to 20%, but it used to be 10%. So you're basically willing to borrow against your investments at 22 %? Pretty much, yeah. Because, I mean, you wouldn't be in credit card debt if you had taken that investment contribution and moved it to covering whatever bills needed to be covered, right?

55:21Yeah, I guess.

55:22George Kamel:What happened? Like, how'd you end up going into debt? I bought a condo at 21 and I've never rented before. and my expenses got high and I wanted to redo the bathroom. So one of it's like an installment loan for the bathroom for five grand. How much do you have in savings right now? I have$10 ,000 in my 401k,$15 ,000 in stocks, and like a couple hundred bucks in a savings account. What app are you using to do the stock trading? It's through Raymond James. Okay. But it's not a retirement account. It's just like a brokerage account that you're investing in single stocks? Yeah. Okay. So you could cash that out and cover the credit card debt today.

56:08George Kamel:Do it today. Do it today. That's exactly what I would do. Do it today. You're 21. You have all the time in the world to let compound growth take over, to invest. We don't have time to be messing around with 22 % interest rate credit cards. And statistically speaking, you're going to lose all that money anyway because day traders lose their butt cheeks. Both of them. So, cash it out now and at least pay off your debts. I just feel bad because I got that money from my grandma that passed away five years ago. So I don't want to, well, I guess it's at$18 ,000 now. I don't look at it ever. Why did she give you the money?

56:45She passed away.

56:46George Kamel:So it was just an inheritance from grandma and she left part of it to you? That's sweet. Exactly. Do you want to do the same for your grandkids? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like that plan. I'm guessing grandma probably didn't have debt, right? That was a principle she lived by? Yeah. That's a pretty cool way to honor her by getting rid of your debt forever and cutting up the cards and saying, never again am I going to let this affect my ability to build wealth. The fact that I owe other people money. Okay. So you have a learning experience and just pay it all off. Yeah, we lovingly call it a stupid tax.

57:22When you do something dumb, dude, you're 21. I made those mistakes all the way into my 30s. And so you're way ahead of the curve, brother.

57:31George Kamel:So, and here's where this is all coming from, Brian. We have a framework around here called the Baby Steps. So Baby Step 1 is a$1 ,000 starter emergency fund. Do you have$1 ,000 to your name in cash checking your savings? Yes. Great. So Baby Step 2, we pay off all the consumer debt. That's everything but the mortgage using the debt snowball method. Do you have any debt outside of the 8K? No. Great. No car loan, nothing? No, my car is paid off. Student loans? No, I didn't go to school. Homie, you're winning, dude. Congratulations. If you crush this, and I'm telling you, like literally cut off the cards, I have not owned a credit card in 13 years.

58:08George Kamel:And my life has only been better for it. And I can't go into debt if I tried because I don't have the ability to. I don't have a vehicle to do that. And that's given me the ability to build wealth instead because I use my own money and I feel the pain at purchase. So if I don't have eight grand to do the renovation, I just have to wait and save up like a grown adult. And that ability is the same muscle that's going to allow you to build wealth for the rest of your life. And I love that you're investing 20%. I think that alone tells me you're going to be just fine on the wealth building side. You go use our investment calculator from 21 to 61, 40 years of investing just 15 % of your current income.

58:46George Kamel:If you're never going to raise, you will be a multimillionaire. And I don't even know your income, but I know that for a fact. Thank you. Are you sure it's not even worth it? Because I mean my credit card only has$1 ,000 on it. And then when I bought this condo, I bought a TV for two. And I've never missed a credit card payment. and I get 2 % cash back. Well, in that case, go into as much debt as possible for 2 % cash back. You said you have$8 ,000 total as part of that. What's the other$7 ,000? Wait a second. Do you think... Jack, just think about this for a second. Do you think the credit card companies give you 1 % or 2 % back because they're your friend?

59:29No. Or do you think that they have used these incredible, extraordinary AI systems to know exactly how much to give you so you keep using their products and they're going to make so much money off of you. You know what? I think you're right. Because I remember in high school, I heard the Apple credit card had 2 % and that was like my dream. I was just like, my only goal was to get that credit card. Yeah, they're not your friend. They're running a business. And if they're like, hey, we'll give you some money back. Wink, wink. What do you make a year, Brian? I make$70 ,000, but with over time, well, 71 ,000 but over time, I'll make 80.

1:00:08George Kamel:That is amazing. So here's the deal. 2 % of that is 1 ,400. Now, you're obviously not spending 70 grand on a credit card. That would be insane. But I'm telling you, you could make 3%, 4 % just by saving that amount of your income every month. It's a better equation. You guys, I use the Acorns app, and it like rounds up. Is that something like rounds up my change? Is that something Just stop playing games, homie. I would delete it. It's like going into the pond at your mall and trying to build wealth by collecting the change in there and thinking that you're building wealth. I met a girl yesterday who said, I was like, you're investing?

1:00:49George Kamel:She said, yeah, I use the Acorns app. I said, how much you have invested? $300. Yeah. By the time you retire, that's going to get you an ice cream cone. So put that into my stock thing because I'll make more than 2%. Just delete it. I'm going to give you the playbook, Brian. Simplify your life, homie. So in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I want you to read two chapters. Number one is the credit card chapter. I go through all the different personality archetypes. You're probably at least three of them. The perfect spender, the rewards redeemer, all of that. And then read the wealth as patience chapter, and I will give you the playbook about where to invest, what to invest in to give you confidence.

1:01:26George Kamel:So you're not just floundering. Because you're a really smart guy. You're doing a lot of things, but you just need a little bit of focus and put the blinders on to not fall for all the traps that 21-year-olds, just like you are falling for, are all over the country. Yeah. Here's another way to think of it. You're going to the gym every day, and you're seeing all of these different weights, all these different machines, and you're running through and doing one rep on all of them. It's like me at the gym, basically. Except George has never walked into a gym in his life. But you pick up one dumbbell and you lift one over your head once, and then you run to one machine and you do one leg, and then you run to another machine.

1:02:04You're never going to get in shape that way. You might get tired. You might be really annoying to all the people around you, but you're never going to build the muscle and the strength and the aesthetic you want unless you just do the boring thing over and over again now and forever. You can find one thing. Yeah, dude. And by the way— Get rid of these all acorns and credit cards and just put them in the video. Yes, man.

1:02:27George Kamel:The last thing you need is another app. What you need right now is just a game plan, a budget, savings in the bank, invest into your employer retirement plan. We did the largest study of millionaires ever done, over 10 ,000. Nobody was like, dude, 2 % cash back is what got me there, bro. I acorned my way to millions. They all said, I just put money into my 401k every year. And these were not the smartest people. They were average investors at best. But they said, my wealth is in my paid for home and my 401k, my employer retirement plan. That's all you need to build. Are you dating anyone? Yeah, my girlfriend lives with me.

1:03:01Okay, spend your energy being a good boyfriend, not scrolling acorn. You're right. You're right. Take her on walks. Y 'all go to a museum or something. Go fishing. I don't care what you do. I don't even know if there's water in Columbus, Ohio. Go do fun stuff. Get off these abs. Like, dude, I've never in my life heard a young woman or older woman be like, Oh, I love him. he's got so many financial hack apps on his phone and he just scrolls them when we're together. I've never heard that ever, ever.

1:03:32George Kamel:Hang on the line, Brian. We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. We'll send you the audio book if you're more of a listener. That's fine too. That's my speed.

1:03:55Thank you.

1:04:08Hey guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing, and most of the time it feels completely out of your control. But there is a better way to handle it. Christian Healthcare Ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. THM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven. and they've shared over$13 billion in medical bills for their members. Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions and you don't have to wait for open enrollment.

1:04:44Now, let's talk about how CHM helps your budget because programs start at just$115 a month and many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling stuck, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50 % credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org slash budget and use promo code RAMSEY. That's chministries.org slash budget and use promo code RAMSEY.

1:05:32Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? When people get buried under private student payments they can't keep up with, they might think there's no way out of that mess. Why Refi helps borrowers explore solutions with fixed-rate refinancing and a payment plan tailored to their situation. Go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

1:05:59George Kamel:Today's question comes from Veronica in Florida. I'm almost$13 ,000 in debt between credit cards and a car loan. My gym membership is 50 bucks and I have a personal trainer that charges$120 a week. I understand that I should cancel if I'm not using the gym, but I go four times a week. Why should I cancel when it benefits my physical health?

1:06:23So here's the thing. what say you john as the person who works out i'm saying that 14 years ago i got on craigslist and got a few kettlebells and started in my garage and i also had a gym membership at the time and then a couple months later i got a few dumbbells and a couple months later i bought a squat rack and over the years i've just continued adding i still have a lot of the very first gear I got 10 years ago. And now I have a really nice, extensive home gym. It's awesome. And I have close personal friends that are very successful personal trainers. And it's awesome. And there's been seasons when I hire trainers for particular purposes, right?

1:07:07But this idea that I'm broke, I'm going to spend, it looks like about 680 bucks.

1:07:14George Kamel:Yeah, 550 probably a month. right okay um well 120 a week times four is what 480 plus the plus 50 there you go yeah so 500 plus bucks a month plus all the supplements right plus the supplements right um here's the thing veronica you're broke and you've you've you've given yourself a straw man here i have to spend 500 a month or i can't be physically healthy that's just nonsense um you can get online and And you can go check out my buddies at Mind Pump, dude, and get one workout program that you do from home for 60 days, 90 days, 120 days while you get your financial mess cleaned up. A personal trainer is something you buy that I love and I actually believe in when you can afford it and you can't afford it.

1:08:02You're broke. It's a luxury. It is some – yeah. It's a thing you get when you have specific goals and you can afford it. Same as buying a Lexus. You know what a Lexus is? An awesome car, a car that will last you till the end of time. And it's a luxury. It's expensive. And it should be because it's really nice. And so when you have the money and you can afford it, buy it, right? Like any number of things here, but this idea that I have to have this and I have to have this, I have to have this, or it's going to be detriment to my physical health. That's a choice you're making. And so, yes, as someone who cares about you and your physical health, I would tell you, pause the personal trainer, cancel your gym membership.

1:08:41If you can, some of these gym memberships, um, you're probably locked in this until 2040. Um, but cancel your gym membership.

1:08:47George Kamel:You have to write a letter with a feather pen and have a carrier pigeon deliver it. No, you have to have an owl from Hogwarts deliver it. But signing up, you can do with a text. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just make direct eye contact and you're signed up to get out of the contract. Um, and then when you're, as soon as you can afford it and you budget for it, then get a great personal trainer. I'm all in on that, but you can't afford it right now. And, um, it's over six grand a year that could be going to crush this debt. And so yes, you're gonna have to make peace with, I'm going to pay interest a whole lot longer.

1:09:19George Kamel:I'm going to stay in debt longer, make these payments longer. And it's going to be harder to get out because we want the debt-free journey to be short. Yes. Like pain, but for as little amount of time as possible. And let's get on Facebook marketplace and get a couple of dumbbells and a kettlebell and let's work out in our garage. Do some YouTube workouts for six months and just knock the debt out and use this as your why. Like, here's why I want to get out of debt. Never again do I want to have to downgrade what I'm doing with my physical health. And it may happen. What happened to me is when we started paying off debt, I canceled a lot of stuff.

1:09:49I realized, oh man, the 15 minutes it takes me to drive to the gym and the 15 minutes it takes me to drive home to the gym, plus all the walking around and saying hi to everybody. I mean, that's half my workout, if not more every morning. And so I built it out of my garage and now I love being there and now my kids work out with me. So there may be some benefits there and I'm not running down gyms. I love them. I'm not, I love personal trainers. Veronica, you can't afford it. And here's my promise to you. Debt over time will impact your emotional health and your physical health. It will bury you.

1:10:20So put a pin in it and get this financial mess cleared up and then get on with your - Focus on your financial health right now.

1:10:26George Kamel:Ooh. Boom. Eric, you should be like a rapper or something. I think that's off the table for me at this point. Absolutely. For the first time, I agree with you, George. Let's go out to Indianapolis and talk to Kathleen. What up, Kathleen? Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Oh, I'm John. I'm just kidding. What's up? Hi, doctor. How are you? I mean, I could not be doing better. How are you? Blessed. Awesome. We have two deaths left. Two. Two. I'm so excited. How close are you? How much are these debts? Well, one is the mortgage and the other one is my student loans. How much are the student loans?

1:11:10$90 ,000. Dang, Gina, those are expensive student loans. Yeah. What do you guys make of your... We bring home$75 ,000.

1:11:22George Kamel:Total household income? Yes. What was your degree in? Communications. What are you doing with it? Like, what's your current role? You better be communicating a lot. I was at one of the news stations for 13 years, and then I couldn't take it anymore, and I quit, and now I'm a blue-collar factory worker. Oh, wow. Atta girl. All right, so how can we help? So I graduated 16 years ago. So I have been hustling to pay off the student loan debt. It's not getting me anywhere. What was the original balance? $40. So it's grown by$50. Yeah. Well, I fell into default because I couldn't find a job for three years.

1:12:16Kathleen, you couldn't find a job for three years. It was 2010 in recession. Okay. All right. We won't go back there. I don't want to get distracted. All right, so what's your question today? Am I really going to keep hustling to get it paid off? It's going to be forgiven in four years. By who? Is it?

1:12:38George Kamel:The forgiveness people? Yes. What program are you in that you think it's going to be forgiven in four years?

1:12:47Well, it's the one that Biden, so as long as it's not touched.

1:12:52George Kamel:Are you talking about PSLF, the Public Student Loan Forgiveness Program? Yes. You're a factory worker, sister. I mean, you're not in that program. Oh. Yeah, you have to, like, enroll and make, like, 120 consecutive payments and stay in the public sector. I did. And? I made 120. And did you apply for it after your 120th? Yeah. What did they tell you? Four more years. Why would it take four more years if you've made the amount of payments you needed? Because it's not 20 years. That's what they told me. I would be not taking the gamble on this because that loan is going to be$120 ,000 by then, and you're not going to get approved.

1:13:39George Kamel:That's my fear. I hope it's not true. It's already doubled on you. I don't want it to triple. And now you're left holding the bag, extra frustrated, extra hopeless. And you want to play a terrible, very unfun yet fun for me game? go back in time with me to 2016. Now, you know, let's go back to 2010. 2010. Could anyone on the planet have predicted we'd be living the world we're living right this second? Oh, no, absolutely not. No. Sci-fi writers are like, y 'all are doing what? Right? And so you have way more faith in what's going to happen in four years than I do. That's at least a presidential election away.

1:14:30I would way, way more trust the woman in the mirror than I would hang on to anything I think the federal government's going to do in four years. Okay. You get what I'm saying? I do. Keep trying to pay it off?

1:14:46George Kamel:I would get both of your incomes up and start attacking those loans with a vengeance. I'd get crazy aggressive. Yeah, with a vengeance is the right word. All right. I hate to tell you that, but I don't trust that program to be there in four years. We are absolute joy killers. She started off so excited. I know, I know. Left crawling. But it's the truth. That's all we can do.

1:15:30One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning in their financial lives. And we just got this awesome fan review for our EveryDollar budgeting app. It says, EveryDollar's excellent. It really helped me get to get my personal finances in order. Now that I'm married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account. It really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. Booyah. It's awesome to hear. Really good things happen when you're intentional with your money. Take control of your money. Change your family tree and then live like no one else.

1:16:03Start every dollar for free today in the Apple Store or Google Play. Hey, let's roll back that last call real quick, George. I don't know how this works. And so I'm asking your wisdom here. If you took out$40 ,000 in loans and then in a federal student loan, and then it doubles over time, can you go back and try to settle that? Or is that the new balance? And that's going to be the way it is forever and ever. Amen. No, you sign those dotted lines. You're in debt to the federal government.

1:16:33George Kamel:The interest is interest legally. And when you, you know, go into deferment or forbearance, I mean, the interest can still accrue. And so I talked to some people when we did the Borrowed Future podcast and I talked to these people and they had their loans for 20 years and they're like, I don't understand. I only took out 40. They were telling me the balance is now 80. Did I get scammed? And I go, no, you just never learned how the interest works and what deferment really is. And so it's heartbreaking to see the numbers go up after you've even made your minimum payments. And the way it works is the interest is higher than your minimum payment.

1:17:06George Kamel:Ergo, the balance goes up instead of down. and to her so i was confused i've never heard so i think she was on the income driven repayment program that's what i think so which is different that has a 20-year track the pslf the public student loan forgiveness program is a 120 qualifying payments that is the finish line so i don't even think she knows what she's in and i don't think she's in a forgiveness program gotcha so i'm very scared for her and the truth is even if she played the game perfectly there's still a high chance she would not get approved well here's what's going to happen and it's going to be pallet have to be palatable to the common voter um or it's going to have to just be forced on us by a politician which is either these things are going to have to get just dismissed and you're going to have millions of people who paid their loans off enraged or um they're going to turn into very similar like irs debt like y 'all owe us we're going to start garnishing your wages and we're going to tag you because you owe the federal government money.

1:18:11I don't see another path, right?

1:18:13George Kamel:Yeah. It's going to be one or the other. And then with every administration, the rules will change. It changes and it changes. Nope, we got rid of that. Every four years, it's just going to restart. And listen, if any politician tells you, we're going to get, student loans are so evil, they're so bad, they're the worst things ever, they're so bad, we're going to dismiss them. they're only telling you the truth if they also say in that same sentence or in the next sentence and next semester we're not going to make another loan because they're so bad for you it's like saying hey the food you're eating is so poisonous we're going to give you medicine and then we're just going to sell it right to you tomorrow right and so if student loans are so bad then come up with a long-term plan to stop the government needs to not be involved yeah stop making they're backing them so the student loan company's like great if they don't pay the government's going to pay, which is the taxpayer, by the way, because the government doesn't make any money.

1:19:06George Kamel:So that's a problem. And then the private student loans, they can be even scummier. Right. They can do what they want. And so there's no good way to take out student loans. The best way is just to avoid student loan debt altogether. And if you have it, aggressively pay it off. Aggressively. No one's coming to save you. All right, let's go out to Des Moines, yes, to Des Moines, Iowa and talk to Claire. Hey, Claire, what's up? Hi, how are you? Good. What's up? So I'm considering two options. One, I can stay out here in Iowa. I've got a boyfriend here. He farms. And I can stay at my job, which pays me pretty well.

1:19:41Or I'm looking at returning to Texas and taking over the family business for a pretty significant pay raise. And it's really hard to decide which one is the right choice. I know that a W-2 employee does not have the same kind of long-term earning potential as a business owner. But they don't have the same long-term risk in some cases too, right? That is true. That is true. But take all that off the table for a second. I've just finished a two-year project digging into answering the question, is being married still worth it? Is it still worth it in the modern era? And if so, how in the world are we supposed to do it, right?

1:20:19And one of the data points that I found that surprised me the most was the net financial benefit to a good or great marriage over the long haul. It ROIs in a really extraordinary way. Because you've got two people who can pick up the slack for each other. Sometimes you both are co-earners. Sometimes one person is able to carry the weight at home, another person is able to carry it. But it just has a net benefit over time. So, A, tell me about this knucklehead farmer boy that you're in love with. Is he awesome? He is pretty awesome. He is pretty awesome. My dad wishes I hadn't been a farmer because he wouldn't be so landlocked.

1:20:56But he is pretty great. He owns his own business. He's also got a family operation that he's working with. And he understands if I leave, he'd understand why. Okay, so let me ask you a second question. Not one time did you say, I really am invested in this family business. I love this business. I want to be a part of it. You mentioned some money. Yeah. So I've never been involved in the family business on my side in Texas. It's accounting and finance, which is not what I currently work in, but it's also software. So that is sort of what I work in today. I am passionate about the mission. It does work with not-for-profits, but just like the farmer boyfriend, agriculture has been what I've been chasing since I was 18 years old.

1:21:39George Kamel:Okay. So is that your love, your passion? You're like, I don't want to leave agriculture, or do you find to leave that life, potentially end this relationship to make some great money and work in the family business? Yeah, I'm not sure. I think stability is the most important thing to me, and I certainly want to do my family proud. And if this legacy is something that they want to pass on, this would actually be a second-generation family business. Then you don't want to let those people down, right? that's a lot of pressure now but you're in the driver's seat of your life how old are you? yes I should be, I'm 26 at some point there's going to come a day when your dad won't be driving the car that is your life and you get to decide when that is that is really fair and if that means I'm going to give up a passion I've had since I was 18 I'm going to give up a really stable relationship with a really great guy who has an, who's also a part of a, of a legacy family business.

1:22:44Um, and I'm going to go literally opposite. I'm going to go halfway across the United States to do so then so be it, but go cause you want to go. And you work in software, you work in technology. Um, ask yourself, what is the, the, the words I'm hearing the most on on the the ai disruption is in finance yeah absolutely um and we are trying to well the family business in texas is trying to account for that and be it be ahead of it a little bit account i see what you did there that was a good joke um okay so i i guess i i can't help you

1:23:21George Kamel:george i don't know if you can't i'm just wondering does this have to happen now what's the urgency Um, so I have been given a deadline of about a month. And if you don't take it, who does? They will hire somebody to do the job in Texas. Okay. Are you okay with that? You know, after this call, I think I might be. I'm just like, I don't want you to feel this pressure, like you're the savior of this whole thing. And if you don't take it, the family name is sullied. It just feels like we're creating too much drama around it when the truth is they're willing to go hire a stranger off the street to do this.

1:23:58George Kamel:You've never been involved in it. You've never raised your hand and said, I want to go work in this business. And so if it's just for a pay raise, I think you're going to do astoundingly well in the current career field you're in if you just keep going. And let's flip this other side of this. When Dave started talking to his kids about taking over ownership of Ramsey and working here, he didn't make them. In fact, they had to go through the paces to say, no, no, no, I really want this. Daniel is our current president. He got to start as a teenager painting stairwells and working in shipping and had to work his way up through sales.

1:24:34He had to prove to Dave, I want to take this thing on. Not, you better do it or I'm going to go hire somebody else. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really good point. And that is how I see my boyfriend's family's business operate. Okay. So you've got to own the final decision here. So I don't want you to be like, well, these two random B-level podcasters told us I should. Like, I want you to own this and make a firm decision. But I want you to imagine yourself in the driver's seat of the car that is your life. Where do you want to go?

1:25:07George Kamel:Plus, this feels like a Hallmark movie. And I want to see the happy ending here. I do, too. Marry the farmer. Marry the farmer. Marry the farmer.

1:25:29Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Let's go out to Manhattan, Kansas and talk to Stephanie. What's up, Stephanie? Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. What's up? Yeah, so my husband and I, we have a rental house. It was my primary house before we got married. And so we're just kind of at a crossroad. We don't know if we want to sell it and kind of cash it out because the equity in it is quite a bit. And we move on with our lives or if we want to hold on to it, pay off debt in a couple years and then have this asset.

1:26:08Do you like being landlords? well unfortunately the first time we were landlords was a family situation so it left a bad taste in our mouth um but we definitely learned what not to do if that makes sense okay but that was a great great way to evade my question do you like being a landlord um yes or no yes or no yes or no i'm a no okay cool just just let that be just let that be it's okay what is it worth so it is worth uh between 150 to 200 and i owe about 12 000 on it oh nice that's almost paid

1:26:44George Kamel:off that's fantastic yes okay so let's let's flip the script here if you didn't own this thing you have your life you have now would you sink the money to go buy this thing as a rental property no so why are we hanging on to it because it was your house before you got married Yeah, it was my baby, and I had a house fire in it, so I kind of built it up from bottom up kind of and definitely attached to it. But also I've gotten advice where it's like, oh, no, don't sell, don't sell. I'm like, we're ready to sell it. And now we're like, wait, is that stupid? Is it worth$100 ,000 more next year? So, yeah, we're just really, like, not sure what to do.

1:27:28We do want to move on with our life. We're going through infertility, and this would kind of help us go through that process a lot more smoother. Yeah, that's a pretty big why. Yeah. That's a great why to have to get out of debt and get some financial footing.

1:27:41George Kamel:How much debt do you guys have? Including that house and our current house, we're about$64 ,000. But no consumer debt? It's just mortgages? We do have about$6 ,000 in credit card. That's me. And then$8 ,000 in a car. Okay, so we have really$14 ,000 in consumer debt, and the rest is mortgages? Yes. What's the household income? He brings about$4 ,500 a month, and I was full-time. I cut back to super, super part-time when I realized we're going through infertility. So I bring about$800 a month. Okay, so total currently is$5 ,300 a month? About that, yeah. How much margin do you have at the end of each month?

1:28:26George Kamel:How much is left over that you can use to tackle debt? Just this year, we've really buckled on the budget, and we realized we could have between one month we had like$1 ,000, and then last month we had like$200 because some stuff came up. Okay. So at this rate, best case scenario, it would still take you over a year just to get rid of the consumer debt, the$14 ,000. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a long time while you're trying to also deal with the infertility, right? Right. And we do have about$11 ,000 in savings, which we've been holding off on if we need to do repairs to the house to sell it or if we do need to put it into fertility.

1:29:08So we haven't quite snowball-affected it and put it towards all the debt yet because we're not sure. Like, I had two surgeries last year, things like that. It's been really interesting. What if we flip the script again? How old were you when you bought this house? I was 23. Okay. How long did you own it before there was the fire and you rebuilt it? A year. Okay. Go back and have an imaginary conversation with 24-year-old you. And imagine her looking at you. How old are you now? Almost 35. Almost 35. Imagine 24-year-old you looking at 35-year-old you and 24-year-old you saying the following. I'm going to buy this house, and I'm going to fix it up when it burns down.

1:29:58I'm going to do a ton of hard work, a lot of sweat equity, because one day we want to be a mom. And one day this is going to be worth a whole lot of money, and it's going to get you and some new knuckleheaded husband that you haven't even met yet. It's going to clear all the debts for y 'all. It's going to pay off the house y 'all live in. It's going to put some cash in the bank so that y 'all can go through the harrowing process that is infertility. I want us to have a baby. So I'm going to do all this work at 24 so that I can hand you this over when you're 35, and you'll be set up. That changes the whole thing, huh?

1:30:38That's beautiful. Yeah.

1:30:40George Kamel:So here's the math on that. You net$130 ,000 from the sale of this place. You pay off your$14 ,000 in consumer debt. You pay off the other mortgage. Well, now you have$60 ,000 laying around. On top of the$11 ,000 you have laying around. So now you have a full emergency fund and money to do these fertility treatments without going into debt ever again. With no stress. All peace. And by the way, you're 35 in a new marriage and you have a paid-for house. Yes. Right? Right. And so is there a possibility this house goes up in value next year, five years from now, 10 years from now? Yep. But do you want to be having a conversation with 45-year-old you saying, you know what, we decided to keep borrowing money.

1:31:21We decided to go 100 grand in debt with infertility treatments that may or may not have worked. And we really wanted to have some equity in a home I owned when I was 24. Aren't you proud of us? or would you rather talk to 45 year old you who may be holding a five-year-old and a three-year-old or a five-year-old and a two-year-old or whatever and say we don't owe anybody anything and we decided we wanted to have the life that we wanted to have i love that you know what i'm saying

1:31:52George Kamel:i think selling it would be way more life-changing than keeping it agreed that's the simplest way to put it then so if i'm in your shoes based on what you told us i would sell it today i'm offloading I'll do the minimal repairs needed to make it palatable for the market to sell to get top dollar for it. And if you need a real estate pro, you can jump on to RamseySolutions.com slash agent, and they'll get you the best deal they can. But I would move forward with this because I think your why is too strong to be hanging on to this default landlord life. I agree. Definitely talking it out helped a lot and put it in perspective for sure.

1:32:28Will you do us a huge favor? when baby number one is born, will you call back into the show and let me and George cheer you on? Hopefully we'll hear them later. People love the where are they now.

1:32:39George Kamel:That's one of the best where are they now I can think of is you calling back and we hear a baby squealing in the background. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things in the world. And I've been there. It's a harrowing long walk and it's lonely. And yeah, we want to celebrate with you when it happens, okay? Thank you. I will do that for sure. we'll be looking forward to it that'd be fantastic john that call is such a great reminder that the baby steps are not meant to be optimal the baby steps are meant because life isn't optimal yeah that's the craziest part to me is the reason you do it is to have flexibility options and when life goes sideways right when on paper it didn't look like it's gonna go sideways and i think the grief you and i take you take it way more than me but the grief we take from internet pot shotters and social media pot shotters and other influencers are yeah but look at this look how much money you're leaving on the table look how much money you're just holding on to you're paying this out of order there's a reason and it's because none of these formulas in a spreadsheet account for life happens and when you talk to thousands of people going through cancer treatment infertility job loss then you realize margin and psychological wins are way more important than arbitrage.

1:33:56George Kamel:Leverage. Yeah.

1:34:17Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com

1:35:08Charleston, South Carolina. Let's talk to Aubrey. What's up, Aubrey? Hi, how's it going? Excellent. How are you, brother? Doing good. It's weird. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys, listening to you guys for a long time. We were just talking. We can't believe we're talking to you, man. That's awesome. What's up? Very cool. Yeah, well, my son, Henley, he's 11 years old, and he opened up a Pokemon pack the other day. It's impossible to get him, but his grandmother bought him a Pokemon pack, and he happened to get a very valuable card in the pack.

1:35:41George Kamel:Let's go, Grandma. How valuable? It was about$1 ,000. Well, probably about$1 ,400, but we sold it to a local card shop, so we got about$1 ,000. Wow. $1 ,000? Yeah. What kind of card was it? Inquiring minds want to know. It was the Mega Gengar EX, the most current release. That's like the chase card that everybody's after. George has that tattooed on his lower back, actually. Oh, that's the card. Yeah, right above the Aztec son he has. He got that one tattooed there. How old is your son? He's 11. Okay. Wow. And did you give him the money? Yeah. Yeah, he's got – we're letting him decide how he wants to do it.

1:36:22So he's a very, very responsible 11-year-old. You're going to laugh, but I want to let you guys know. He's listened – he's read The Total Money Makeover,

1:36:31George Kamel:and then he listened on Audible to Entree Leadership and Smart Money, Smart Kids. So he's like – Goodness gracious. So no Legos for this guy. You need to get him a bunch of toilet paper and teach him how to wrap houses or something. You're in danger of creating a nerd bigger than even us. That's awesome, man. Way to go. He's a good kid. All right. So what's your question, man? Yeah. So he's wondering what he should do with it. He has a plan so far. So I don't know if you would share what he's thinking so far with you guys. Sure. Yeah. We basically, if you know, from the smart money, smart kids, he said, there's three things you can do with money.

1:37:03You can save it, you can spend it and you can give it. So he wants to give$300 to the church. He wants to save$300. He wants to spend$200 and then have the other 200 for like gifts for family and friends and kind of buying other people's stuff.

1:37:20George Kamel:How do we clone this kid? This is crazy. I literally thought you were going to say he wants to buy$1 ,000 worth of Pokemon packs to redo this. I'm like, you created a generic gambler at this point. That's right. Let's do it again. I love that. You'd think so. Yeah, he's just super generous, and I almost found myself trying to discourage his generosity. I'm like, I don't think that's quite the right move here. So he wanted to get your guys' thoughts on that plan. And yeah, my only concern would be with what you just told me is amazing. And that that's a direct reflection of the parenting he's receiving.

1:37:56So kudos to you, man, like as the father of a 10 year old, like, well done. That's awesome. We need more young people out in the world like him. My only concern would be that there's no sort of this isn't the right word, but it's close enough survivors guilt. I got this money, my grandma bought me something, I ended up with a thousand bucks. And so I kind of owe 200 bucks to the side to buy other people's stuff. Right. And I would sit down with my, with my son or my daughter at that age and make sure like, I do believe I have an obligation. I owe, as a tither, I have a responsibility to pay back to my local church.

1:38:40Cause I know where that money's going. It's going out to the local community. Right. and to help the least of these in our community. That's a responsibility I have. But if I'm going to buy gifts for friends, family, I want that to come from a place in his heart of, because I want to, not because I feel like, I kind of feel bad because I got this thing, so I kind of owe everybody. You get what I'm saying? And it's just a moment to teach him about emotions and about the spirit of things and obligation, which those are tough concepts for adults to wrap their head around much less 11-year-olds. But it can just open up some great conversations with you guys.

1:39:14yeah yeah i think that's good and um probably sure to have that conversation and then make sure if he's wanting to give that much that that's not coming from a place of guilt yeah and it may just be he saw grandma's eyes light up and he loves giving stuff away um i remember i used i mean i've talked about this a lot on the show but my son and i for years went to breakfast once a week at a local waffle house and that was a way i taught him here's what generosity like looks like right um let's like let's be ridiculous and tip these waiters and their response was so extraordinary we we developed relationships with the wait staff because we went there all the time for years um that i had to teach him hey you can't tip all of your money away because you got to pay bill like you're gonna have to like have a light bill one day right because because it was so overwhelming the reward was so big and so i i never imagined i'd have to teach a seventh grader that lesson like well you got to hold on to some of your money can't just give it all away um but uh man i'd much rather be teaching from that place than the other right good for you man so yeah the

1:40:18George Kamel:ratios might be slightly off you guys might decide hey let's do 100 to the church we're gonna do 100 that's spontaneous so if we're out and we have a great server you can hand them that 100 bill we're gonna put a couple hundred bucks in a high yield savings account for short-term goals i mean the kid's gonna be driving in five years and we know how expensive cars are and maybe put some in a long-term plan, like a 529 plan for college, just to show him and get him understanding compound growth. You want to use this as an opportunity to really develop y 'all's relationship? Teach him about how much you tithe and what percentage you use, and here's why.

1:40:56And so instead of tithing 30%, maybe you say, hey, me and your mom, because of this scripture, because of this teaching, because of whatever, here's how much we tithe. it's your money you're free to do with what you want but here's what we do and here's why and you begin to teach him the why underneath some of these exercises and I think that can be really powerful like intimacy and like it's a way to connect with him at a deeper level right yeah well and with that like I mean we I don't know your guys thoughts we weren't planning to like override his decision on it I mean we were thinking to you know really it's a thousand dollars is going to come and go, right?

1:41:33Like this is more of a teaching opportunity for him to even experience handling what's a lot of money for someone his age. I mean, would you guys agree with that to not kind of override, I guess, unless he was doing something crazy. Nothing crazy is on here. Yeah. I get that question a lot. When someone's like, hey, my kid just got 50 bucks for raking the neighbor's yard. He wants to blow it on a Lego kit and he's 10. I say, let them blow it because they're going to, that's how they're going to learn. I'd much rather them do that and get their first raise at 22 like I did and go buy a stupid truck you can't afford.

1:42:01You want the

1:42:02George Kamel:their regret and failure to happen when they're 11 with a thousand dollars and not 31 with a hundred thousand dollars. That's right. So it's a great lesson to learn because nothing's on fire and there's nothing fatal here, but I would let him have the final say and you as sort of a guide can just offer some recommendations and go, what do you think, bud? A great, a great sentence starter with an 11 year old is, all right, teach me about why you want to do this. Teach me about where you came up with the number 300 for. And teach me about wanting to put 200 aside. You want to give away 50 % half of this money.

1:42:36That's amazing. Tell me about that. And have him just let him know at the age of 11 that he can talk to his dad about stuff, that he can talk to his mom about stuff. Because now you're planting seeds that are going to pay off 10, 20, 30 years from now, which are amazing.

1:42:53George Kamel:Yeah, absolutely. Does grandma got a commission from the winnings here? better i think we get grandma a nice gift with me i feel like if grandma bought me a lottery ticket and i hit i feel like i should get grandma a little something some flowers yeah good idea oh that's awesome you guys are so great all around this is a great great question quick short follow-up um with that any we've kind of debating on what is he saving for right now and if that should be in a high yield or if that should be an investment my thought was the cars is probably the next thing he's saving for, but any input from you guys on that?

1:43:29Put in high-hold savings account.

1:43:30George Kamel:Yeah, I mean, car is probably the big one, and then college is not too far beyond that. And so I like showing him how short-term savings works for goals and then how long-term investing works. And I like the mix of both because he'll get a handle on – both of these things are important. There's not really a priority here. It just depends on when the goal is going to happen. Okay. So I like this all around. Teach him a little giving, a little short-term saving, long-term investing and of course spending yeah let him enjoy himself he's 11 yeah and you may have to look at him and say hey you know this dave ramsey guy you love he spends a lot of time in cabo like you learn to spend your money too right um dave's insanely generous and dave has a good time also right so you might have to push him a little bit like hey we're gonna go spend some of this money we're gonna have some fun yeah um because we want him to enjoy his life Teaching someone to be well-rounded and balanced, that's one of the most difficult things you can do.

1:44:25Because people tend to fall on one side of the teeter-totter or the other, yeah. All right, we'll be back soon.

1:45:20George Kamel:We'll see you next time. clear and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to-dos, and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give EveryDollar a full-time job. Go download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play.

1:45:50Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool. It's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. Today, we're going to break down the most asked questions from this past week on Ask Ramsey.

1:46:01George Kamel:Yeah, we got some questions around budgeting, how to pay off debt, building wealth. but the number one question was around retirement. And this is the age old question. How can I determine if I have enough savings to retire? Age old. I see what you did there. Age old. See, you like that. Retirement. This comes down to one core idea. You want to have enough saved so that you can live off the growth without depleting the principal. So without getting it down to zero while you're still alive. That's not fun. So your annual retirement expenses, you can divide that by 0.1. That's your retirement nest egg goal.

1:46:32George Kamel:If you're looking at 10 % rate of return annually. So if you need 60 grand a year to live on, you need at least$600 ,000 invested in good growth stock mutual funds averaging 10 % annually. So that 60k comes from growth alone, your principal stayed intact, the 600 grand, if that happens. So to get your number, ask yourself, where do you want to live in retirement? What does your ideal lifestyle look like? Will you have any other income streams like pension, social security, part time work, that all gets factored in here. And a few important reminders. If you're young, especially, I would not fully count on that social security number, especially as your primary income.

1:47:08I would absolutely have it be a bonus that may come.

1:47:13George Kamel:I love that. Plan for it to not exist. It's gravy on top. And be completely debt free before you retire. If you follow the Ramsey plan, you don't have a mortgage payment. You don't owe anyone money. You've got plenty of money in the bank. You've been investing for several decades. And then health care costs. That's a big one. Nobody truly knows what healthcare costs are going to be when you retire, unless you're retiring this year, then you have a pretty good picture. So that's another piece to factor in. And AskRamsay can help you get started planning for retirement, and it can connect you to a SmartVestor Pro.

1:47:42George Kamel:So there's the big caveat. When it comes to a decision this big with this much writing on it, I'm not just going to go to AI to figure it out. No. It's a good starting point, but getting connected with an actual registered investment professional who has the heart of a teacher, that's the key. and we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years. SmartVestor Pros can help you create and reach those goals, help you make informed investing decisions. So you can find that at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. And if you want to check out Ask Ramsey, our free AI tool, just jump on to RamseySolutions.com.

1:48:13All right, let's roll out to Toronto, Ontario, or as Texans call it, Northern Oklahoma, and talk to Alex. What's up, Alex?

1:48:26George Kamel:Did we lose him? Alex, you there? It's that Canadian phone line stuff. We just can't figure it out. All right. We'll try Alex later on. Let's go to Greg in Charlottesville, Virginia. What's up, Greg? Hey, John and George. Honored to speak with y 'all. Huge fans of both your shows. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you, man. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I have the opportunity to buy the house that we are renting. We've been renting it for five years. We love the property. It's a two-and-a-half-acre property, single-family home. The reason we have some pause is because I've heard Dave talk a lot about manufactured homes and the way they go down in value.

1:49:15This is a double-wide that is on a permanent foundation. It's got a block foundation the whole way around. The title has also been relinquished to the county, so it's a permanent dwelling. Does the rule, quote, that manufactured homes go down in value still apply to this situation versus one that's parked on a rented piece of land with wheels on it? I've not heard Dave talk about that. I don't know.

1:49:49George Kamel:I just go, if you weren't renting this place, would you guys be on the market going, that's the one? Probably, because of the market in this area. What's it cost for a single-family home in your area? $17 million. So the comps for like a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1 ,600-square-foot house, 1 ,500 acres is probably$450 around here. Okay. And we have the opportunity to buy this one for$300. that feels like a lot of money for a house of that type.

1:50:27Okay. So the landlord, we have a great relationship with him. He's owned it for 15 years, and he bought it for 90, and it's now appraised right at 300. Is the home appraising for that, or is the land appraising for that? The whole thing. Yeah, the land itself is almost$200 ,000. Yeah, I would imagine the land is what's appreciated around this, especially in Toronto, getting$200 ,000. The real asset is the dirt. Two and a half acres is the dirt, yeah.

1:51:00George Kamel:What's your financial situation? Oh, it's fine. We have no debt. We're ready to buy. How much do you have in savings? We love about$50 ,000. So you'd be taking on a$250 ,000 mortgage? Yeah. Have you crunched the numbers on a 15-year fixed rate to see what that payment would end up being?

1:51:47I really wanted to get an opinion on that.

1:51:50George Kamel:I mean, obviously it's appreciated, but I think that's because of the dirt, not because of the house. So I don't want you to be misled thinking that, well, this house is going to be worth$500 ,000. It may one day, but that's going to be largely due to the dirt, and that house will be scrapped, and they'll put something else on there. Yeah, given the way – how they've surrendered the title, et cetera, et cetera, I can't give you an answer. I don't know. We'd be lying if we were like, it absolutely will do this or this. I would just personally, if you're not ready to buy a traditional single-family home, then I would just pause and keep renting and wait to get that$400 ,000 house a year or two from now.

1:52:29Or at the very, very least, brother, I know you've lived there for five years. I would still go through the entire rigmarole and get a full home inspection on it and talk to an inspector. even though you've lived there and said no we know we know everything about this house we've lived there for five years i'd want someone to come through i'd be worth the money for me to make sure i knew what i was getting into and what it's worth and you may want to check with a with a mortgage professional in your area um and check and see if there's lending law differences on mobile homes versus uh traditional homes i just don't have enough i don't i don't know enough Dave might know that off the top of his head.

1:53:09I talked with Churchill, and they started the process. Okay. Okay. And I trust them. I mean, I've trusted them multiple times.

1:53:18George Kamel:What do you guys make? About 80. Okay. I'm just trying to think. How long would it take you guys to save up another 50 grand or 70 grand? Would that be two, three years? At least. because right now we've been married for the five years that we've lived here. We've saved the 50 in five, but we've been only paying$1 ,000 in rent. If we move out, which the landlord has said, we're either moving out or we're buying, anything else in the area is$1 ,800 to$2 ,500 in rent. We're renting from my employer, actually, so we've been getting a great deal with that. So if we move out, that's kind of one of the other motivations for just buying it because of what rent is going to be if we just move out.

1:54:14George Kamel:Yeah, but rent is temporary, and this home is a long-term decision. So that's the piece I'm thinking through is 10 years from now, are you going to be really glad you bought this thing? Or are you going to go, man, it probably wasn't the smartest decision at the time. We were kind of strong-armed into it with this ultimatum of either go rent for$1 ,800 or buy it. And so that's the part that I don't like doing this from a place of sort of urgency. I have to. I've got to keep my boss happy. I've got to keep my, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it sounds like you guys, you've made the decision in your head now.

1:54:47George Kamel:Just like, was this, should we continue down this path? Yeah. What if you what? What if we bought it thinking we would sell it in five to seven years? That's what I can't give you an answer on. If it was a traditional mobile home, I would say it's going to go down in value because it's by itself on two and a half acres. There's a possibility in Toronto that the dirt appreciates pretty significantly. That's what you're hoping for in that scenario. And that's just there's a gamble there. I can't see a world where the home appreciates, but maybe the dirt will appreciate. But nobody can look in a crystal ball like that.

1:55:31Thank you.

1:55:42George Kamel:All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:56:23Today's scripture of the day is 1 Peter 5, 8. Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Jordan Peterson says, don't be a slave to stupid rules. Like your clothes have to match all the time, George. How'd you know? Well, I can just see your clothes match. Fashion has rules. Mine don't always. They may be stupid rules.

1:56:49George Kamel:Jordan Peterson famously wears matching suits. Yeah, his suits are pretty fancy. Yeah. Let's go out to James in Boston. Hey, James, what's up, man? Hey, how's it going? Doing all right, brother. How are you, man? Hey, doing pretty good. So me and my fiance, we're both 20. we have one kid together right now and did you say you're 20? yes we both moved out when I was 16 she moved out when she was 17 neither of us have parents behind us at this point and we recently found out that I'm terminally ill and I have like 10 to 12 years that's the kind of estimate and so what's the diagnosis man? I would like to do the private but it's more having to do with brain function.

1:57:40And so, yeah, so I make like about 30 an hour right now. She makes about 25 an hour. And so I guess my question is, we both are going to school right now. I'm going to school to be an electrician. She's going to school to be a registered nurse. And with like 10 to 12 years left, I was wondering if it would be better for us to go out and take a loan out to get a house now. That's something that she has for when I'm gone or wait a couple of years until we're both settled in our jobs. And I don't think the size of that house would change much, but, you know, we can do a lot of work ourselves for fixing it up.

1:58:23But, yeah, that would be my question. So first off, man, you're pretty sober-minded for a 20-year-old with a young child and a fiancé. And I'd like to just tell you, man, I hate that you're in this position. I hate it for you, man. Yeah, me too. Well, yeah, especially. How long have you been wrestling with this diagnosis? For the past year now. Okay. About a year now, yeah. So it's set in. This is happening, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. This isn't going to be any help at all, but can I just say this? I have close friends who work in pretty advanced medicine right now, especially with this influx of wild new technology.

1:59:15And for whatever it's worth, it may be worth keeping a light on.

1:59:22the story I'm being told there's going to be some earth shattering transformations in health technology over the next five to six years and I'll be praying for you man and I hope that some of these discoveries and some of these new interventions may be able to support you and change your life man yeah no definitely I mean I try and live my life like there's going to be a cure and try and live each day to I love it. The last thing on earth I would do is sign up for a chain myself to any sort of payment that I'm going to have to make. Because with a 10 to 12 year window, I'm sure they told you that might be six years too.

2:00:08Might be five years also. Right? No, it's at least 10 years. But yeah, no more than 15. But like, yeah, at least 10 years. I wouldn't recommend that. I love the idea of your wife going to get a, or your fiance about to be your wife. I love the idea of her getting a certification like this. It's going to give her a career after you've passed. You entering into being an electrician right now. I mean, that's a seven year process, isn't it? Before you're fully licensed. Yeah, I have some scholarships to get some money off of that and also do a kind of fast paced course. How quickly could you get out into the field?

2:00:49I think four years, but I have a friend that's going to be able to help me get. He has an electrical company, and he's going to help me get in there early and do work for him. So here's what I want you to keep in mind. The single most precious resource you have right now is time. Right. And so if I'm looking at a three-year-old who's about to be a four-year-old, And I'm looking at one to two to three more years of having to work 5 million hours a week to try to get my journeyman's license to do this. And I'm making 30 bucks an hour right now in my current job. And my wife's about to be a registered nurse.

2:01:29And maybe we could invest in her so that she can go get her nurse practitioner degree or she can get her bachelor's in nursing. That would be where I begin to look at what's the best thing I can do to provide. is it also going to school just because I have some scholarship opportunities or am I going to be the greatest foundation and anchor so that she can go build an amazing life so in the event I'm not here, she is so set up to go do whatever she wants to do. Right, yeah. But time. No, that's really what I want to do for her. Time is the thing. And so if time means you're going to be at home and you're going to be an anchored presence, you're making$30 an hour, which is a great hourly wage, man.

2:02:11you're not going to you know you're not going to go buy a 17 ,000 square foot house with 30 bucks an hour but man that's a good wage especially if you can support her she can go get a nursing degree debt free you can spend precious precious time with this baby that's coming that's where my head goes George what do you think?

2:02:29George Kamel:Yeah do you guys have any debt currently? No no debt. Do you have savings in the bank? Yeah about 10 grand. Awesome Awesome. Well, I definitely would not go out and buy a house right now. It's not going to give you the stability you think because that payment's going to stay that payment. And if something were to happen to you, well, now she's on the hook for that payment. Otherwise, she needs to sell this house. And so I would wait until you guys are financially ready to buy this house as if you didn't have this diagnosis and just save up a strong down payment. I mean, I'm from the Boston area.

2:03:00George Kamel:I don't think you can get a house at 20 within a 30-mile radius of the city. without... Okay, so I don't live in Boston, but it's in a rural area. What is the house going to cost? You can get some for$225 ,000 to$300 ,000 range. Okay, so it's still, even making$100 ,000 with rates right now, you might still be looking at almost a six-figure down payment to do this the right way, where it's 25 % of your monthly take-home pay, and then I would work to pay this thing off the next 10 to 15 years. right and so putting a huge down payment buying a reasonable home that's going to help you knock out the mortgage fast that's the best thing you can do for her is leave her with no mortgage payment no debt a bunch of money in the bank in the meantime invest for the future invest for that child for college in a 529 plan invest in your own retirement that she will then inherit one day and so you leave her in the best position possible to where she's not scrambling So what if in a couple of years she's going to be a registered nurse and she's making close to 50 an hour?

2:04:07Could I, in these next few years, be saving, both of us saving up a bunch of cash to put down like whatever, 50 grand or something like that? Absolutely.

2:04:17George Kamel:Yeah, that would be my next goal for you guys is every dollar is focused on that down payment fund and we're just putting in a high yield savings account for the next, let's say, two years. How much money could you guys sock away in two years? doing this?

2:04:33That's hard to say. I would say 25, maybe 30. I would say 30.

2:04:38George Kamel:So 15 grand a year, a little over a thousand bucks a month is what you guys could do right now? Yeah, probably. And also cash flow her nursing school? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the plan. And if it takes another year or two after that to get the down payment, once her income's up, then I would do that. Because you're probably going to need at least 50, 60, 70 down on a$230 ,000 home in order to keep it at that 25 % of take-home pay. So that's the math equation you're trying to solve for here. And so the baby steps still apply. The math is the math. I would have a will in place. I'm assuming you don't have term life insurance at the time of the diagnosis.

2:05:17George Kamel:Okay. And I'll tell you this, having sat with... I have a question. I have a question about that. Go real fast. I got tested without my legal name. Can I still get life insurance? I doubt it with the diagnosis. They're going to look up every single medical record you've ever had, regardless. There would be no medical record. Well, I mean, you're going to have to perjure yourself. You'd have to lie. Yeah, it would be fraud at that point. They're going to ask you if you have any diagnosis, whatever. You can still contact them and see what your options are. There might be a guaranteed issue policy.

2:05:50George Kamel:It's expensive. It helps cover part of the mortgage. but it's not going to be what you usually can get. We'll be thinking about you, brother James. Thanks for the call, my man. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with a Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.