Take Debt Off The Table And Stay The Course

24:21Dr. John Delony:I totally track. Now, let me turn this to the relationship guy. You advise a lot of marriages. You're writing on this issue right now. Okay. How then does she reveal, hey, I want a prenup? In other words, I have an icky feeling when I hear it. For sure. And you would as well. So then how do you relationally bring that up to have the least amount of negative impact, I guess is the question. I think what I would do, let's make the assumption, and I don't know this about that caller, that she's got two kids, two grown kids who then have their own grandkids, right? I would sit down and say, hey, this money from my parents is earmarked and designated for their heirs, not for us to spend wildly.

25:03You have$750 ,000 in total net worth, as she said, I'm going to come in with about a million dollars. We're going to have a great life together. And maybe when they pass, we're going to take this money for a particular goal for us. But I want you to know this money is designated in our lineage for our kids and our grandkids or whatever. And that to me is a way that if he can't hear it, I like that. Hey, wait a minute. I want 5 million. Now there's something revealing.

25:29Dr. John Delony:That's fair. And what I like what you did there is you actually took the emotion out of it by saying, this is just a function of this money is over here. We are over here. We're here. Okay. All right. I like that. Very, very good. And we, we're going to take some of it. Yeah. We're going to have some fun. Yeah. Right. Hey, you know, we're constantly hearing in the headlines, John, all the time, right? Is, is Powell going to, you know, lower interest rates, which isn't always tied. In fact, it's rarely tied to what you see in the mortgage rates. Those are tied to the 10 year treasury bonds. Okay.

25:56Dr. John Delony:So some of you are kind of going, Hey, what determines? Stop using facts and data. I know. If you want to know where mortgage rates are going to go, pay attention to the news about the 10-year treasury note. And that's going to help you because it's very, very common that when the treasury notes drop, so do mortgage rates. And conversely, when they go up, mortgage rates go up. So that's just kind of an FYI. But we hear about the news all the time about real estate market. And here's the deal. For those of you that are thinking about buying or selling a home, we acknowledge and want to make sure you understand.

26:31Dr. John Delony:This may be the biggest financial transaction most of you make. You don't want to do it on your own. And so we want you to be tied into experts. If you go to RamseySolutions.com slash market, RamseySolutions.com slash market, we've got a ton of free tools, up-to-date market trends to help you buy a home or sell with confidence. So make sure you use that valuable resource so that you do not walk into this major decision blindly and do it on your own. ramsey solutions.com slash market okay richard is up in atlanta georgia richard talk to us hey how are you guys we're having a blast i have a very strange scenario and i know that it's very weird i'm a airline pilot and i travel all over the place and sometimes i can be in two or three countries in the same day uh on a regular basis it is very unsafe to carry cash and also couldn't carry cash because I can't really carry six or seven different currencies.

27:31And it may be one week that I'm in Barbados and the next week I'm in London. Well, you can't carry so many currencies in your money. And your debit card gets shut down on a regular basis. I'll try to debit the cards when you're listening to your show and that doesn't work either. So what's the best solution for paying for lunch in Barbados and dinner in Jamaica later in the same day without a credit card. Let me ask a silly weird scenario.

27:58Dr. John Delony:Yeah, you are very, very complex. I'm going to ask a silly question because I don't understand. I don't know when you are traveling for said airline. Do you have a per diem or no? You're responsible for your own personal meals. So you're getting a per diem, but your per diem is basically just a blank run of money that you're given. So you have to go use your own credit card. And if you spend more than the per diem, Well, that's on you. If you spend less, well, that's on you too. So they don't give it to you. You don't have a company card and you don't have a, it's, it's, you're responsible for the transaction and you get reimbursed.

28:36Correct. Yeah. And they just put a line item on your paycheck that here's per diem that you were gone X number of hours a month. And you know, here's your per diem at this rate.

28:45Dr. John Delony:All right. I'm going to ask another seemingly silly question. My wife and I took a European extravaganza. we country hopped a couple years ago. I use my debit card in every country. I guess what I'm not understanding is if I can do that, how come you can't do that? So it depends on the country, and your debit card can get shut down. Shut down by who? The bank. The bank calls it a fraud alert. I tried to get money out one time. No, no, no, no, bro. Okay, no, here's the deal. My wife and I visited five countries on the trip I just told you about, and we called our bank ahead of time and told them these are the countries we're going to and my card was not shut down at all.

29:28And I did that same thing in Latin America. I didn't do five countries, but we did several. Never had a problem. That's the issue is I can tell you I'm going to go to London this week and then an hour and a half, two hours before, instead of going to London, I'm not going to Jamaica and the bank may be closed if it's late at night. I can't always call ahead and get a bank.

29:46Dr. John Delony:I got to tell you, I hate to be the ambassador of no. Because that's what I feel like right now. But, okay, if I find out an hour from now that I'm going to Jamaica, I bank with a regional bank here in Tennessee, and they have what's called an 800 number. And there's always somebody on the other end. My bank's closed on weekends. My bank's closed on weekends. They have no... Small town. Okay, well, then there's your answer maybe. Maybe we get with a bank that's got an answering service 24 hours a day, and then you can call them and go, hey, I'm going to Jamaica. Going to be on a plane in an hour.

30:29Dr. John Delony:I need you to know that no fraud. Well, if you're with the Red Dirt Idaho Community Savings Bank, that's probably your limitation. And I'll tell you this. So what do you do when you're in Jamaica and change over to Barbados kind of thing, though? What do you mean? You're not going to get a good exchange rate. Well, I may be in Jamaica. I may not be originating. I may not have phone service where I'm at. I may be in Jamaica and not able to get into the truck or the bank. Okay, so you fly with a major airline, and they're routinely putting you in places where you don't have cell service? I'm not buying it.

31:00They do.

31:02Dr. John Delony:I feel like I'm up against a guy who really thinks he's going to get me to go. All right, pal, here's what we're going to do. No, I promise I'm not. Let me tell you something else I do. I actually opened, because I'm paranoid, I opened a sub account in my checking account and they issued me a new debit card just for that. So when I leave the country, I have a limited amount of cash in that because I don't want them having access to my whole thing. And in case that card gets taken and I have I'm with you, Ken, I've never had it denied. Man, if you're going to a tiny little country, put a hundred dollar bill in your pocket.

31:36Dr. John Delony:I think we solved this entire call, Richard, by saying get a bigger bank and get a better cell service. I'm not sure cricket's working for you.

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32:36Dr. John Delony:And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene we all need. We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for. Exactly. And this is not being paranoid. This is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240 listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it. I love it. And you guys, in a world where strangers can Google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind.

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33:38Dr. John Delony:Quick program note earlier this week, Dave Ramsey and George Camel hosted a show and did a breakdown on the big, beautiful bill and need to do a quick correction here. They had mentioned that you could use HSA money for gym memberships, but that was actually part of an earlier version of the legislation. It did not make it in the final bill. And so we always want to correct ourselves if we give errant information there. My goodness, how in the world do they keep up with these gigantic bills and what all is in them? You know, Congress themselves never reads these things. So good on our team for catching that.

34:12Dr. John Delony:I mean, the very congressman who voted for it, no idea what's in it. None. None. None whatsoever. Unless that's one of their pet projects. That's right. Dude, you're going to get me all fired up. Oh, don't get fired up. Peyton is waiting for us in my old stomping grounds in the 757. John, your name is John, not George. That hurts, but I'll accept it. I know. Well, I just said his name. Virginia Beach is the area. Peyton is there. Peyton, how can we help today? Yes. I want to say thank you, John and Ken, for all the work y 'all do. I really appreciate it. Thank you. My question real quick is just I have a car that got totaled out.

34:50It's a little hooky. It's worth about$1 ,500, but I haven't gotten a settlement offer yet. But I'm curious about salvage titles as far as if I get the offer back and I get the vehicle back. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, so I can fix up the issues. It'll make it roadworthy. But I'm curious, is it reasonable in a bad financial situation to keep it? And is it financially wise to drive it as salvaged? Or would it be better off to sell it, you know, even to a junkyard, worst case scenario, and then try to buy another hootie, you know, for roughly the same price? Because I already put about$800 into it to try to fix it up and make it, you know, as reliable as I could get it.

35:27Dr. John Delony:And so you're struggling financially or you're trying to really get through baby step two. so the idea of any more additional outlay is tough. Is that what I'm getting? Yes, sir. And how much more would you have to put into it to get it roadworthy? Well, I mean, just replacing the light, you know, the light housing is really the main thing. It was destroyed, and the front bumper cover was pulled off, some dents on the fenders and stuff. That's not a good deal. It's really just the light housing. I know. What's it going to cost? Is it going to cost you more money, or is the insurance money going to cover that?

36:00the insurance money should cover yeah all of the repairs that would need to be made to it

36:04Dr. John Delony:well if i were in your shoes if i heard everything right john i i if i had the by the way i can barely put gas in my own car so this is never an option for me you know i mean i'm not mechanically inclined but if i could do what you're saying and i could get the car right back on the road and i was in the middle of baby step two that's what i would do i'd keep driving the thing yeah you're worried about the salvage title nobody cares that thing ain't worth anything that's it if you have a $15 ,000 car or a$30 ,000 car, it gets wrecked and it becomes, you have to have a salvage title on it, you won't be able to resell it.

36:36This$1 ,500 car, you're going to sell it to somebody else for $1 ,000, and as long as they're holding a title of some sort, that's what matters here. If you're lucky. Right.

36:42Dr. John Delony:I mean, this is going to end up being Fred Flintstone. You know what I mean? That's the day that, you know, and so keep going, man. Be encouraged. This is the season you're in. The only question I have because of that, go ahead, sorry not to cut you off, But just with the salvage title and getting it insured, as far as I understood it, though, if it gets in another wreck, then insurance won't cover anything on it. Yeah, but dude, this car is not worth insuring. You need insurance, umbrella insurance for any damage you do. But as far as insuring this car, I wouldn't insure it for a penny. This thing is just, we want this baby to stay alive long enough for you to get through baby step two and keep moving forward.

37:24Dr. John Delony:Do you know what I mean? Understood. I guess the only reason I ask is just because of the fact that if it gets in, something else happens to it, let's say worst case scenario, because I didn't get the accident. Somebody hit it while it was parked. I don't have another$1 ,000 to buy another hook to you right now. So that's the only reason I ask. But I mean, when you're in baby still two and you burn your emergency fund, the first thing you do is go refill that emergency fund. That's right. So you pause, you go back to paying minimums on everything to get that emergency fund back up. Yeah. And bro, it's the worst.

37:56And that was the only question I had, too, is finding a$1 ,000 vehicle is really tough. I was lucky to get that$1 ,500 one. So while having it under a salvage pile like that, should I increase my emergency fund a little bit to put an extra buffer in there to buy another?

38:09Dr. John Delony:No. No, you're on baby step two. Yeah. Baby step two, dude. You're going to be okay. Put your energy on to paying this other nonsense off. That's right. Yep. Okay. Okay. And hey, dude, the exposure you feel, that nervousness, that's the fuel in your jetpack that's going to get you through baby step two. Yeah. And by the way. It should be uncomfortable is what I'm saying. You're a mechanical guy, right? Yes. Okay. If something were to happen to this current rust bucket that you're driving, somebody's giving away a car. Somebody's given up on a car somewhere to where you could go out and work a little overtime.

38:48Dr. John Delony:So, I mean, you have the option to keep finding hoopties until you get through baby step two. You actually can do this far more. Like if I was in your shoes, I'd really be in trouble. I'd be riding a bicycle, you know. But John's right. We don't change the rules because you're driving a hooptie. And more importantly, we don't change the rules because it's uncomfortable. because by definition the rule is designed to keep you uncomfortable, to get you through this as fast as possible. Yeah, great statement. Roberto is up next in St. Louis. Roberto, how can we help? So thanks for taking my call. Sure.

39:24Dr. John Delony:So I've got a quick question. I've been running a small business for the past 20-plus years, and I've done pretty well. And so what's going on is I've landed a couple of contracts with some school districts in my area, and I'm receiving a check here in the next month or so for about$45 ,000 or so. And so I contacted my tax lady and I asked her what I should do with my taxes, whether if I should go ahead and pay them quarterly or if I should send them aside to pay at the end of the year. So with doing that, knowing that my taxes are going to be roughly$13 ,000 to$15 ,000, dollars. My question to her was, can I take that money and have my business buy a pretty much a company vehicle?

40:09Or should I just go ahead and set that money aside, pay for the taxes, and just let it ride? I'd write a quarterly check, dude. Me too. What did she say? She said that she would have to look into it. What would be the best and my best interest?

40:27Dr. John Delony:All right. Well, that's surprising because most tax people go for the, yeah, just go spend it. And it doesn't sound to me in anything you laid out to John and I right there that you need a truck. It's one of those things that sometimes I do. Just, you know, haul equipment, haul ladders. But you're not going to skirt around the end of your tax bill. That's exactly right. It's a false choice when people say, well, I'm going to go create another expense in order to lessen my taxes. If I was running a small business like you and I got this 45, I'd do exactly what John said. I'd go ahead and pay the quarterly estimate, and that way I'm staying on top of things and I'm not messing around with the IRS.

41:07Dr. John Delony:So, no, I would not go buy something. I don't want to mess with the IRS. I don't either. If you were getting a check for$4.5 million and you had a good partnership with your financial advisor and your tax person and you all figured out, hey, you can take that quarterly and you can postpone it and invest it here. But you're dealing in way more zeros there. That's Dave Ramsey kind of money. I don't have that. It doesn't sound like you have that. I'm going to pay that quarterly and here's what I'm going to – I made 2 % on the gap between – dude, I'm going to have a sleep tax. I'm going to know there's not a chance the government's going to come for me at the end of the year.

41:44In fact, they may write me a small check. That's what I'm going to do. But I want you to follow your tax professional's advice. But anytime someone says, hey, you're going to have a$14 ,000 tax bill, so pay for a depreciating asset that's going to be$50 ,000, and that will help you. Man, that's just me. Yeah, in that case, I wouldn't do that.

42:02Dr. John Delony:And a lot of tax pros will do that. Ramsey tax pros are not going to tell you that. And so in this case, be smart. You get windfalls like this as a small business owner, sock it away for the taxes. At the end of the day, to me, I wouldn't be bothered if you took option two that you threw out to us, which is I'm going to put it aside to the end of the year and see if there are different. And that's over my skis on tax stuff. Yeah, you can do that because you've put it aside. And so your tax pro is kind of going, all right, set all of it aside, the whole 15 that we're anticipating. And then as we do your books, if you did have more expenses, what I estimated was going to be$13,$15, well, you know what?

42:42Dr. John Delony:You're actually only going to owe$9. But the point is it's all sitting there. And so either one of those options is best, but going out and buying something to try to play games with taxes, John laid that out beautifully. And that's just – it's not – the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that. I do not like messing with the IRS for one. And on the second note, I was looking at something just to kind of offset the, you know, not the$40 ,000,$50 ,000 truck. You know, that's ridiculous, but something$15 ,000,$18 ,000. I wouldn't do it. Well, you've got the cash to do that on your own. Yeah, that's true.

43:15Use the$30 ,000 that you are going to take home in profit and take a piece of that and go buy that truck.

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44:48Dr. John Delony:This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to talk about their money, their profession, and their relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. Alongside Dr. John Deloney, I am Ken Coleman, and we're here together for you. The phone number to jump in, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jennifer is up in Miami. Jennifer, how can we help? Hey, Ken and John. I am a huge fan of the show, and I am just so excited to be on with you guys. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. All right. So I have been struggling with debt. I have about$63 ,000 in just different forms of debt, and I just feel like no matter how much I sell, how much I think I'm getting ahead, I'm just not.

45:37Like, the interest is accruing, and I don't know where to go from here. I have a few ideas, but I really wanted to, like, get your input before I did anything.

45:48Dr. John Delony:Okay, what do you think is the reason why you're unable to get beyond minimum payments? well i am going beyond minimum payments but like i'm doing the baby steps so while i'm attacking one the other one is just exuding more and more and so i'm unable to get ahead is what i mean well no what so that's what threw me off you got to change your language um you're too busy looking at the debts that you're making minimum payments on instead of looking at the amount of progress you're making in the snowball. So are you walking through the debt snowball where you're taking your lowest? Okay. Are you making progress on that one?

46:31Like this is what's happening. I pay off one and then I go back to my spreadsheet where I have them all listed. I update it, right? Because the, uh, the interest accumulated and it's higher, even though I just paid off one, it's higher because the interest is going up. The total, the total debt you owe is higher or that one, How is that possible? The total, it is possible because it's happening. Tell me how that works. You'd have to have loans at 70 % interest. Yeah, some of them are like up to 30%. I mean, I can break it down for you if you want.

47:06Dr. John Delony:No, because I believe you, but again, you're focused on the wrong problem. Okay. All right. You need to be focused. Well, the problem is it's not getting better. No, it is. It is. It is. So let's walk through. On your debt snowball, what have you paid off to this point? Anything? Have you knocked any of the debts? Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to remember which one I paid off. I did pay off one. I can't remember. It was like maybe$4 ,000. Was it your lowest debt?

47:38I believe so.

47:40Dr. John Delony:Okay, here's what's throwing John on the way off. I'm not sure why I chose that one. Mm-hmm. Okay. See, all of your language tells me you're not doing this the way we teach it. So let me go back just for a moment. And we're for you. We're not criticizing you. Okay. But all your language is like, I've got a spreadsheet. But then when I asked you, what was the lowest debt? Because that's how we teach it. We teach smallest to largest. So let's make it up and let's say you had a$2 ,500. I erase it. That's why. Oh, okay. All right. Once it's paid. All right. So here's my point. You have knocked off one.

48:13Dr. John Delony:Oh, I remember. It was an Amazon. It was an Amazon. And how much was it? $4 ,000. $4 ,000. Okay. It was like$4 ,000. What's next? What's the next smallest debt on the list? So then I paid, now I'm up to another one that was around$4 ,000 or$5 ,000 and it's down to like$1 ,400. You're making progress. You're making progress. You keep going. And then eventually you're going to get into these bigger ones that have the huge interest rates and that's where you will make progress but you're not going to make progress on a debt that is higher up the snowball plan that has a crazy interest rate you paid that's what you did and that's the stupid tax john weigh in on this because you're hearing the same thing i'm hearing yeah i mathematically jennifer i guess i want to challenge it but i'm not looking at your spreadsheet that's right unless you're taking two years to pay off something as you say whatever of course.

49:06Okay. So in my business, right, it's, it's seasonal a little bit, like the summer's really slow. So last season when it was really slow, I kind of survived like credit cards were my crutch. So a lot of this came from last season and I'm a little bit concerned, like a lot concerned that this summer I don't have that crutch. In fact, I don't want to use my cards, but, um, I'm just worried. I'm not going to be able to like pay more, but I'm not going to be able to like get it down like I have been doing because I believe summer's going to be really slow. So I'm just like kind of freaking out and I'm like alright, should I get a loan to help me?

49:43Because I didn't realize that. I need some dental work and so like I don't know what to do.

49:53Dr. John Delony:You need a job. Yeah, you've got to get another job. You have a math problem. You don't have a debt rearrangement problem. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, my job makes, I can, you know, my average is like 6 ,800 a month. And like my debt, I got it down to, I think it was like 63. So. Yeah. But Jennifer, and by the way, we are, we are on team Jennifer. Yeah. Yeah. But listen, what you just laid out for us isn't sustainable. If you have a business. Well, I'm worried it's going to get worse over the summer. It probably is. And what I said to you, you're not hearing me because I think you're calling going, guys, I got to use debt to keep myself alive.

50:35Dr. John Delony:And we're going, no, you don't. So we're kind of at an impasse. And what we're trying to tell you is if you're in a business that is so seasonal as in the summer and it dips so low that you have chosen to survive off of credit cards. The only way to dig out of this is to actually then offset your down season, but you're going to have to get a job. You're going to have to make more money. John's right when he says this is a math problem. You can't, you'll never get out of this if you go, well, gee willikers, my business sucks in the summer and I got to bail myself out with a loan or a credit card.

51:11Dr. John Delony:And then I'm back to paying off that debt. You are constantly adding to the hill that you're trying to climb and the answer is number one cut up the credit cards number two come up with a different business or number three supplement your business by doing another job or something to bring in the same amount of income so that you don't go backwards in the summer and i'll throw a three plus and a four okay listen i have a buddy who runs sound he does the monitors for a famous rock band. The moment they get off tour, technically he's unemployed. Now they're going to go back on tour the next summer, the next year.

51:52And immediately he lives in Las Vegas. He goes to Vegas and starts running sound at shows and casinos. And so that's part of that cycle. That's number one. So if you're, like Ken said, if your business goes dips that low, then you have a math problem. The other side of this is to look at your debt repayment across a 12 month. Consider yourself a farmer.

52:12Dr. John Delony:Yeah. Right. If you get a big if you have a huge month in October and you take all of that and dump it into your debt so far that you can't pay your bills in June and July. That's not a debt problem. It's a you're not looking at your 12 month calendar with in reality. So it might be that you got to put some money away because, you know, there's going to be slower in June and July. Ramsey has seasons when we all, Ken and I are 100 % commission. There are certain months a year where we get bigger checks. We know that. Around Christmas, around when summer starts, right? We know that. And so we're going to spread that out over the course of a year when it comes to buying things and whatnot.

52:54But this idea that you just taking two months to pay off a$4 ,000 debt and your$63 ,000 earns that much$4 ,000 interest, it's not mathematically possible. So I think it's spreading it out or just really crushing a job in the summer. You've got to take debt off the table.

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55:08Dr. John Delony:Houston, Texas is where we're going next, and Sarah is waiting. Sarah, how can we help? Hello. I am hoping somebody can tell me how I can financially exit my marriage. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What does that mean, financially exit? it? I have been married since 2001. I am 50 years old and a stay-at-home mom. My husband is in his mid-60s and is retired. He takes care of all the finances. Is that a nice way of saying he controls the money? That it probably is a very nice way of saying it. I signed a prenuptial agreement and I had no idea what that was and I don't have access to it. I don't have access to anything That's not accurate.

56:11He might be controlling it, but you do have legal rights to see the prenup that you sign because it's your prenup too. It is.

56:22I don't have access to it. He carries a key to the filing cabinet, and it's on him 100 % of the time. Okay, you're in a very abusive situation, and you know this, right? Yeah. Okay.

56:38Dr. John Delony:And that's why I'm asking, what did you mean by financially exit as opposed to just exit? I'd like to just exit the whole thing, but y 'all are a financial show. Yeah. I mean, you've got to sit with an attorney. Yeah. You've got to sit down with an attorney. I've already done that. Okay. And what did the attorney say? And they need all of that information. Say what now? The attorney needs that information. They need the financial information that we have. They need the mortgage information, and they need the prenuptial agreement. I know, but if you're married to an abusive person who won't share that and controls it and keeps it on their body, this is like a James Bond episode.

57:16Like if you're married to somebody like that, the attorney knows if this person is unsafe and won't turn that over, that then they make a filing and there's a disclosure. They have to put all this stuff on the table. And if they won't, which he probably will not voluntarily, even with a subpoena, then you get a forensic tax person who goes through everyone's underwear drawer and goes through every receipt and you'll pay them a jillion dollars. But that's how this is done if somebody wants to be controlling and abusive like that. You're in control. And by the way, a prenup will talk about pre-existing assets.

57:53It won't mean that you don't get a big chunk of what he has earned while y 'all are married. Oh, I do know this. I know that part. I know that I would get half of the house. So tell me, are you trying to get this information without him knowing you're talking to an attorney? Is that the problem?

58:15Dr. John Delony:Yes. Okay. That may not be possible. Yeah, I don't think it is. I think you have to do what John just said. The only way he's going to do this. Is under court order. That's exactly right. It sounds like that's your only path unless you're sneaking around, you know, in the middle of the night. You know, he has too much allergy medicine and you're pulling the key around his neck. This sounds like a bad lifetime movie. Yeah. Rarely is somebody that controlling that's not abusive either physically and or emotionally. Is that true also?

58:50Probably emotionally, not physically. Definitely not physically. Okay, that's good. Okay. Not physically. Then I think you have to sit with your attorney and say, I'm not able to get this information because I'm in an abusive marriage. And then we've got to go to step two. And that means you have to have a place to live and you're going to have to have food and water. I mean, you're going to have to have, there's four walls you've got to deal with, right?

59:12Dr. John Delony:Do you have a hunch on this, Sarah? I think you do, but I'm curious to know if you did what John is suggesting, do you think that would wake your husband up or do you think he would dig in deeper? Go to war. He would go to war. Okay. Oh, bless your heart. I hate that for you. I'm so sorry. Yeah. This sucks, Sarah, but I'm with John on this. this marriage is in deep, deep, deep trouble and you got to do what's best for you right now. And I think John's right. I mean, you've already gone to speak to an attorney. What fear do you have about going the next step and filing papers?

59:56My kids will hate me. Yeah. They won't because they live in this mess too. How old are they? I have three that are in high school. Yeah.

1:00:08Dr. John Delony:Do you think they're aware of your relationship being in the state that we're all aware of?

1:00:17Some of them. Two of them do. Two of them do. Sarah, let me tell you that everyone in that house feels the tension in that house. Yeah. There's a lot of tension. Yes. There is no laughter between my husband and I. There is no relationship. He is not my friend. Oh, man. And I am not his. I'm going to say something very hard, okay? And I want you to hear it in the spirit of which I'm saying it, okay? This is going to sound mean, but I want you to hear me say I love you, okay? I don't want you to use an imagined response from your children as the excuse to not go do what's the next right scary hard thing for you.

1:01:01and there's a reason we don't let teenagers vote and buy beer because they're teenagers because they're full of feelings and they don't always have um they don't always lead with uh critical thinking rational thought and that's not their fault it's just brain development right right and also let's acknowledge

1:01:27Dr. John Delony:Sarah, this is not what you expected. No, it's a nightmare. And this is really hard. Yeah, this is hard. But my prayer is, and I mean this, because I never love to hear the advice that we're giving at this case. I mean, I just hate this. But my hope is that it wakes him up. I think you're probably right. He'll dig in. But maybe not. I don't know. But I think you've got to make some moves going forward because I think you're in a prison. You're in a financial and emotional prison. Yes. And that means your kids are too. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And usually, not always, but usually he showers them with stuff so they will quote unquote love him.

1:02:17And then he gets to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. It's actually not that. He is very goal driven. and his goal currently is to be able to finance the children's college education.

1:02:37Dr. John Delony:What kind of money does he make? You have any idea? He is retired and we are living off of his investments. Oh, okay. I'm a stay-at-home mom. This is too much of everybody for me to stay. I need people to go back to school, go back to work. You know, I didn't ask this question and I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it. Have you shared with him, at least at the level that you're sharing with John and I, what's going on? I mean, does he know how bad this is from your point of view? No. We have gone through four marital counselors in three years.

1:03:18Two of them I felt like were not seasoned enough or on the verge of retirement. One of them fired us and she was the one who saw the issues.

1:03:35Dr. John Delony:So I think he actually is aware of what you feel. Or this word gets thrown around a lot. I mean, it gets thrown around the Internet a lot. And I'm in no way going to make any sort of diagnostic guesses here. But this sounds like a true narcissist. That was the word she used. and so like somebody who carries a key that's a power play that's a flex that's somebody that not only is going to keep you from is going to use information as power over you but they're going to make sure you see it that's somebody who's not well and there are some extraordinary people I know them in Texas attorneys who have dedicated their lives to helping women in this exact moment who don't know up from down, who are not allowed to live in their own home.

1:04:29And so if you've already gone, my recommendation would be to sit down with your attorney and say, okay, what's step two? And I hate this for you. As Ken said, I hate having to give this kind of wisdom.

1:04:41Dr. John Delony:We're hurting for you, Sarah.

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1:06:28Dr. John Delony:Hey, our FPU coordinators are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with Financial Peace University. And we want to celebrate them because they deserve it. These are the men and women on the front lines meeting real people, knee to knee in all different locations, just loving on folks. And so we'd love for you to join us at the virtual 2025 coordinator rally on July 24th. It's virtual, so it's easy. And whether you've coordinated a class before or you just want to see what leading FPU is all about, come on. It's an all skate. You'll hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel, and Dr.

1:07:06Dr. John Delony:John Deloney, and I'm told a few other special guests. We're giving away$3 ,000, so register for your chance to win. You can register for free at RamseySolutions.com slash rally, RamseySolutions.com slash rally, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Let's go to Lauren in Detroit, Michigan. Lauren, how can we help? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the call today. You bet. I had a question. My husband and I are finally able to live together after being married for three years. but I own my house and he doesn't, he rents but because of our jobs his house is the better option to live at I'm just not sure what to do with my house it's got that great interest rate I'm not sure what to do What's it worth if you were to sell it today?

1:08:03Probably over$200 $220 I owe$122 ,000 $122 ,000 them. Sell it today and put a hundred thousand down on a new house, both get out of his rent house and you find yours. Who cares about that stupid interest rate, man?

1:08:19Dr. John Delony:Yeah. You don't want to be a long distance landlord. People are parking their whole lives on a once in a millennium interest rate. Yeah. Let's play this out a little bit. Let's play it out. Cause I hear the doubt and we love doubt. Doubt's not bad. Love it. Let's put this to the test. Okay. So let's say you keep it at that fabulous interest rate that you're in love with, what do you think you would rent it for? Any idea? Well, I think it depends on the runner. My daughter, she's an adult. She's actually interested in either renting it herself or buying it. Give her a great deal. Let's keep playing this out.

1:09:00Dr. John Delony:Let's play the renting thing out because you presented us with, I kind of emotionally want to keep the house. Am I right? No, I don't think I'm emotionally tied to it. You seem very confused by John's suggestion of selling it. You don't want to give up your... This is the last attachment to your former life. Oh. Is this true? Oh. And you may have gone through a divorce or somebody passed away and you got up and you dusted yourself off and you worked your butt off and bought a home and you've paid off half of it. And by moving in with this person, your husband, by the way, this is the period at the end of that former sentence, right?

1:09:37Yeah. well i am just so nervous i just hate the thought of so much of that new house payment going to so much interest it just makes me sick so much so that you're gonna have a hundred thousand dollar brick tied around your ankle when you move in with your husband after three years in a new state no it's i mean i i i move right not right now that's all right let me let me go back to where I was going.

1:10:05Dr. John Delony:Let me go back to where I was going. Here's why you shouldn't keep the house. Number one, you're going to be long distance landlord. I don't care if it's your daughter renting or someone else. True or false? Two hours away. Yeah. Yeah. The answer is yes, Ken. Okay. Next. Okay. All right. So. And let's add to that issue. I'm not, I don't know home repairs. I know you don't. I know. I'm getting ready to make this situation worse. All right. So you're two hours away and you don't know anything about home repairs, you have to hire somebody. Now let's talk about how much actual money you would make on renting this house.

1:10:40Dr. John Delony:Okay. What I was trying to get at, I never got an answer from you is, is what is the market-based rent for that house? You don't have to tell me now because we don't need to get bogged down, but here's what I'm going to tell you. You will be shocked if you run the numbers, John, at what you can get in rent versus your mortgage payment. Okay. And let's just say you cleared three, four, five hundred bucks a month. Is that a fair guess? I could, yeah. Okay, great. Let's say 500. Let's be aggressive in my example, okay? Okay, 500 a month times 12 is$6 ,000 a year. That's your gross that you're going to get.

1:11:16Dr. John Delony:Then you got home repairs, somebody taking care of the house. That's all on you. So you aren't even going to net$6 ,000 a year. All that nuisance, all that worry for maybe$3 ,000,$3 ,500,$4 ,000 a year. It's just not worth it. That's why we were so quick to say sell it and move on. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When you lay it all out like that, man, I really was stuck on the interest rate, too. 2.875. I know. And I wanted to destroy the emotion around that because guess what's going to, guess what, when you get a call at 10 o 'clock on a Saturday night and you've just settled down with some ice cream to watch a movie and the person who's renting your house goes, we got a water pipe burst.

1:12:00Dr. John Delony:And you're going to go, ha, man, that's a bummer, but 2.875%. I'm doing the happy dance. And then you're going to call somebody and they're going to say, cool, it's going to be$6 ,500 to repair it. We'll get it done on Saturday. And then your tenant's going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, in our lease, you have to put me up in a hotel and I have to actually have two rooms because... There you go. Just sell the house. But you know, no, no, no. Because what you're going to do is you're going to go, man, that's a bummer. Just out of pocket 10 grand. But boy, that interest rate is great. I love that interest rate.

1:12:32No, no, no. It doesn't sound so good anymore. So you would just sell it for anything I could get for it and then just put it. No, that's you being dramatic. No, sell it for market value. No, no, I mean, that's what I'm wondering. What is it, what you guys would recommend? I would get a real estate pro in that area and sell the house. or I'm not opposed to you cutting your daughter a deal. You got$100 ,000 in equity and maybe you say, I'm going to knock off 25 grand for you because I love you or 50 grand. I mean, you picked a number. I'm going to sell it to you for 150 grand. I'm going to take$50 ,000 into my three-year-old marriage that we're finally combining our households.

1:13:09Honey, I'm not living in your gross rent house because sick. We're getting a new place and I got$50 ,000 to put down on it.

1:13:15Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And then your daughter's got a great start. That's an, I like that option. That's actually what I wanted to do, and I talked about that with her, too. Like, if that's what they decided to do with her and eventually get married. I was going to say, as a parent, don't do any sweetheart deals just for the daughter. This needs to be a big girl deal. Now, cut her a break on the overall total, but don't start getting tricky with financing. She needs to be a big girl, and she goes and does it just like everybody else. Get some mortgage and buys the house from you. We're not going to shake hands and you just pay the mortgage.

1:13:50That's my only concern. Then you're going to blow up every Christmas from here in the next decade. Well, I told her flat out, like, I'm 42 years old. I can't start out, you know what I mean, like, at a full house payment. Like, I need to have that chunk to put down to make sense where I'm at in my life. I don't want to start over with nothing.

1:14:09Dr. John Delony:So we gave you two really good options, but they're both sell the house and let's move. And you said you were ready to go today. I think this is the last piece. This is great. List it. Go to RamseySolutions.com and look up the real estate pros. Interview two or three of them. Have them come over and look at the house. Go with the one that you like the most that feels like they've educated you. And let a pro walk you through this process and begin to exhale and get excited about this new chapter. Can you do one exercise for me? I want everyone listening at home in this similar situation to do this exercise, but will you do this with me?

1:14:44Dr. John Delony:Can I do it as well? You can, Ken. Okay. All right, are you ready? Yeah. All right, Lauren, close your eyes, and I want you to picture that interest rate. What's the number? 2.75? Three? 2.875. 2.875. I want you to see those numbers. I see it, John. Now, I want you to open your eyes real quick. That's a little palate cleanser. Close them again. I want you to imagine you're looking at your laptop, at your checking account, that has$105 ,000, which is what you've cleared. Oh, I like it. Which number do you like looking at more? Big one. That's right. Bank account. Bank account. Sell the house. Awesome.

1:15:27And America, stop holding up your life for a freaking interest rate. if you've got to move if you've got to change jobs go go i loved that visualization because

1:15:42Dr. John Delony:i was envisioning her money in my account i don't know if that was supposed to be what happened but boy that's where i went

1:16:25Dr. John Delony:Okay, America, quick question. Are you on track with the baby steps? Some of you may go, what are you talking about? I'm new to this whole show. If you'd like to know where you stand on the baby steps or where you should be next or what are these things, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress. Great place to do this. If you go into the show notes and click on the link that says, are you on track with the baby steps? Quick little quiz. Fabulous information to kind of give you a status report. And we all, I can tell you this is humans, John. You know this as well as anybody. We want to know where we stand.

1:17:00Dr. John Delony:Always. All the time. So that's a fun little quiz. Check it out in the show notes. Des Moines, Iowa, one of John's favorite places to visit. It's Des Moines, yes, but I'll call it Des Moines. Boy, that's awkward. I missed that one completely. I was way off. Owen is up. Owen, how can we help? Hey, that's pretty nuts there. It's Des Moines, but my wife and I are up. I know, I know. That was a joke and I responded in kind. Sorry to throw you off. All right. It's all good. All right, good. Good. Good. So my wife and I are public school teachers and coaches. We'll make$6 ,800 starting in September.

1:17:38We have$30 ,000 in savings. My wife had$19 ,000 in student loans, and we paid that down to$5 ,000. I'll tell you why in a second. I have$23 ,000 left on mine. The reason we paid hers down to$5 ,000 is because there's a program through our student aid where if we work five consecutive years in a low-income school, which we do, we can get up to$5 ,000 each after that five years. In three years, we'll hit that. My question is, and I think I kind of already know the answer, do we pay mine also down to$5 ,000 and just wait for that? Or do we just use our savings, completely pay it off, and then just kind of start overworking back our savings?

1:18:19I have two, one question and then one lived experience comment. Okay. The first question is, do you have to, is it reimbursement or is it, you will just get this money back? It's not reimbursement. I also have a teach grant, which would kind of be that like, if I didn't do the low income, it would just get turned into a loan. But no, I think it would just pay off or I'm sure it would just pay off my remaining balance. So I really want you to get clear on if you walk in, do they have to see a balance? You're going to have to pull up, here's what I owe on my student loans and we will pay what's left.

1:18:59I've not seen it happen that way. Basically, it becomes a rolling bonus. And you have to prove that I had these student loans, I paid them off, and here is the reimbursement, if you will. But I would get some really clear insight into what that is. And then here's my comment. I trust those programs. Zero. None. And I've got none. And I'm watching states lose federal grant dollars by the day because they're not doing something or somebody's mad at somebody. I don't trust any of those programs. And I had some of the most extraordinary young men and women as law students who took less market money to go work with low income folks, to go work government jobs, to go work as attorneys at nonprofits with this promised payback.

1:19:52and it didn't come through. And it just kills me. So you've got the money, bro. I would rather you guys have five years of peace in your house than some carrot that government officials dangling out in front of you three to five years from now. Okay, perfect. And I do have one follow-up. We do currently put 15 % in our op IRA. According to BabySeps, we should stop doing that. Can you tell me why? Yes, because I want you paying off your debts first. I don't want you borrowing from your future self. This doesn't really apply to you because you have the cash right now to be debt-free by the end of the day.

1:20:29Right. And so I would be cashed. I would be debt-free by the end of the day, immediately your wife and you, you're going to have your, you're going to, you're going to pay off your, you're going to start investing. You're going to start replenishing your emergency fund and you all are going to start your new life off to the races. My, my friend. Okay.

1:20:48Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And I want to make sure you understand, And for everybody else listening, we have a lot of people, there's a really good question. The reason we have you pause on the investing 15 % while you're still in a baby step two and three is because of momentum. We want to use every nickel that comes in the door to go to that current step. Make sense? Yes, makes sense. Dave developed that, which it's genius. Years and years of counseling people on the air, he figured it out. These baby steps are designed to do one thing and one thing only. give you the absolute most momentum possible. Right. It's a tough journey.

1:21:24It's the title of Jade's book. Money's not a math problem at that point. It's a psychology problem. That's good. Love that.

1:21:28Dr. John Delony:Kyle is up in Memphis, Tennessee. Kyle, how can we help? Yes, I am calling in because I would like some guidance on baby step one. I'm a independent contractor driving a semi truck. And I know the normal baby step says to save$1 ,000. My question is, with having a semi truck and maintenance and things like that, what would be a good amount for baby step one? Do you have two separate accounts? In other words, do you have a personal account, checking account and then do you have a checking account for your business the trucking yes yes i do yeah well first of all the answer is no matter what the scenario is we never tell somebody to have more money in baby step one and bring the audience in maybe new to this baby step one is one thousand dollars in a savings account for your garden variety emergency and we do this on purpose.

1:22:35Dr. John Delony:It's as little as we think because it covers most of your emergencies. And it allows you to, again, put every dime that comes in the door towards your debt, which is baby step two, taking the smallest debt first, knocking that out. And then we take that, what we're paying towards that. And we begin to roll it like a snowball and knock out all the debts. The reason I asked you the question about your separate accounts is because if those finances are different. Do you have debt in your business? I do. Okay. How much? I have right at$43 ,000. What do you make in your business before you pay yourself?

1:23:20Right at$200 ,000 a year. And then what's your draw? What are you paying yourself? I have only been paying myself the amount of what my personal bills are.

1:23:33Dr. John Delony:Real quick question. Are you sitting at a stoplight getting ready to turn left or right? I feel like I hear the blinker clicking. No, I... Do we have an egg timer next year? No, you got the emergency flashes going, huh? Yes. Oh, okay. He's a safe driver, Ken. I listen to you guys every day. Love it. Okay. I called in, spoke to someone, and they said, whenever it's your turn, pull over. I love it. Perfect. So I pulled over. Here's what I would consider. I would consider trying to pay your business debt off as fast as possible, but you're going to keep the nerd term in business is retained earnings account, which is basically a business savings account.

1:24:07It actually is about investors, shareholders, blah, blah, blah. But think of it that way, and you've got to keep those things separate. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. I've got that since state one. Okay, so having a small account that's going to serve as your emergency fund for your business, I like the fact that you're paying yourself what you need to survive, but that means you've got to take the rest of that and pay that debt off of your business so you can begin operating. Because then you're going to be able to take$200 ,000 minus, I think Dave likes to, he says he's never gotten here with Ramsey Solutions because we keep expanding with cash.

1:24:41But having up to 25 % of your operating cost in retained earnings and then the rest of that, it just becomes yours, dude. Or you get to invest in hiring another driver or whatever you want to do with your company. okay that was my that's why i wanted to ask about baby step one is for maintenance and for like what on that aspect to be able to keep the that's that's business operations dude that's

1:25:06Dr. John Delony:not that's not you personally that's why i started off immediately with do you have separate accounts so we got two journeys we got debt on both sides of the aisle but they are two separate journeys here to knock the debt out on both sides. Okay. Yeah. That gives me guidance and a way to start moving forward. But let me tell you this. If you know I have this much gas, I have this much for oil changes, this much for tire rotations and new tires and whatever, that is not a retained earning. That is a business expense that you need to account for every month. Similar to if my kid needs braces, I need to have that money.

1:25:42I know that's coming every three months. My kids got to go get their braces adjusted or whatever. That's not a surprise. That's something that me and my wife save for every month because we know that's coming. So just be honest about your business expenses on a recurring basis.

1:26:15Dr. John Delony:Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate.

1:26:47Dr. John Delony:That's RamseySolutions.com slash real estate.

1:27:02Dr. John Delony:This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your profession, and your relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Alongside the combustible, the incomparable, Dr. John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be together for you, and we're going to go to Charlotte, where John is standing by. John, how can we help today? Hi, guys. I am kind of just trying to figure out where to get started to actually be able to not live paycheck to paycheck. Okay. All right. Well, the first thing we want to look at is what do you think the big problem is?

1:27:48Dr. John Delony:Is it too much going out the door or not enough coming in the door? Or do we have some type of combo? I think it's a combo, even though the money going out the door is a temporary issue, it feels like. Tell me what that means. So I have twin boys that are three years old and daycare alone is$516 a week. And why is that temporary? Because once they're into school age, that$2 ,000 a month will be able to go somewhere. You're a positive guy because I would not think that two years of that kind of expense is temporary. We don't want to suffer for two more years. That's one part of the problem. Let's talk about the income.

1:28:39Dr. John Delony:What are we making and what are we doing for a living? So for me, I'm a firefighter paramedic. And my wife, 100 % of her wages basically goes to the kids' daycare. Sure. And so all my money handles everything else within the life. What do you make? um i make about 53 to 54 000 a year do you have options for overtime uh yes does that figure you gave me include overtime or is overtime not that is my base okay what could you make in overtime um i could honestly i could work as almost as much as i wanted well what what i would want you to know is what is feasible when we say that. Okay. And then what could we make over the course of a year?

1:29:33Dr. John Delony:So in other words, could we go from 53 gross to 73? I'm just giving you an arbitrary number. You need to know what's possible. All right. What kind of debt? Give John and I your debt picture. Real quick. Are you on, as a fireman paramedic, are you on what, 36s, 24s, two on, one off? How do you do that? 24 on, 48 off. And what do you do on your 48 off? Try to fix the house that we have. All right, I've got to tell you, brother, y 'all are drowning right now. Yeah. And so it's not time to wax a surfboard when y 'all are underwater. And so I would tell you whether that is doing a mindless job, whether that is your kids go to daycare three days a week or two days a week and you've got them the other days, is that easy?

1:30:22It's a no. Good grief. and I've sat with you guys in the middle of the night, in the middle of the road and watched houses burn down. I know how hard y 'all work and this is just a 24-month season. And whatever you can do on those 48 or if you can stay over for another 24 or if you just want to get your mind off of car wrecks and cleaning things up and training and go throw boxes at a Walmart, man, you've got those 48s. Using those hours, man, would be such a blessing for 24 months. And like you say, in 24 months, everybody exhales, right? That's exactly where I just keep telling myself just a little bit longer.

1:31:02I just started, I guess, debt relief. That's not the mindset.

1:31:06Dr. John Delony:That's not the mindset. Let's tackle your debt because I want to show you, John, and I'd like to walk you through where we could put some of that additional income we're talking about to actually increase your income as well. Give us your debt picture. Go smallest debt to largest. Right now, my smallest debt, I would say, is my car payment. Okay. How much total do you owe on the car? And then give me the car payment. So I bought it last year because my vehicle went out and I'm at$26 ,000. You owe$26 ,000. What's the car payment? $419 ,000. What's it worth? I would say$26 ,000. It was a brand new car.

1:31:49Okay.

1:31:49Dr. John Delony:Okay. What's your next largest debt? My house. Okay. So the only consumer debt you have is the car. Yes. Everything else is in the debt settlement that I pay every week or every day. Dude, bro, you buried the lead on us here. What is your consolidated debt payment? I've got a cough. I've got an itch. And I've got stage three cancer. Like you got to say all of it. So I owed, before I started my settlement, I had 12 credit cards because I was just getting a new credit card, maxing it out, getting a new credit card. How much is the combined debt consolidation? $25 ,000. Okay, so we got$26 ,000 in a car and we got$25 ,000 in one big lump sum credit card debacle.

1:32:42Dr. John Delony:Is that it? Correct. Okay. What is that minimum payment on that? John's getting a bowl of Maalox. $217 a paycheck. So$434 a month? Correct. Okay. So I just want you to see that what we're looking at here in our debt payments, okay, is almost$900 a month. Boy, that would be nice to get back in your bank account. Yes or no? yes okay so that's the mindset we gotta have i knock this debt out i give myself a 900 raise we're not waiting for the twins to go to school to get some type of financial break you have agency you have opportunity to go with the agency in the sense of john laid out what you could do to make more money so um if i'm you i'm looking at if i could escape from this card you have any cash and savings at all anywhere any cash zero okay okay here's the thing i i'm i'm i'm i'm getting all burnt up i'm gonna talk to you direct is that cool brother absolutely okay you have two days off every other day period correct you have a 26 000 car that you cannot afford in one month you could save up$4 ,000 in extra money and go buy yourself a lame car.

1:34:09Everybody at the station is going to make fun of you. Who cares? In one year, you could earn$25 ,000 extra and pay this whole debt settlement off. That's right. You were waiting for life to happen to you by walking around and fixing a gate and messing with some sheetrock, and your soul is burning down inside your chest, dude. And the thing that you have that very few callers on this show have is four extra days a week to work.

1:34:41Dr. John Delony:Two grand a month is what John's telling you. That's it. You're free. You're free. Two extra grand a month. You tell me you can't earn that? I absolutely can. Get after it. Let's go, dude. Sell the car, like John said, and go make the extra money. and you just gave yourself a$900 a month raise by paying that debt off. And then imagine having an emergency fund of three to six months of your expenses. How would you sleep then, John? Much better. Yes. Dude, this is literally in the palm of your hand. Right now. Get on the phone and get a second job and start tomorrow. Game on day one.

1:35:37So

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1:36:36Dr. John Delony:Time for our question of the day, which is brought to you by our friends at Y-Refi. If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, Y-Refi offers a great solution to help get you back on track for a low fixed rate and a lot more flexibility. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. that's the letter y r e f y dot com slash ramsey it may not be available in all states and i'll read the question as well oh i'll do it today's question comes from brooke in illinois i started a new job this week and i'm 15 weeks pregnant after years of trying it's truly a blessing to be this far along amazing i've been there congratulations i didn't expect having to change employers, but I lost my job and had to find another quickly.

1:37:24So here I am. My new company provides four months paid maternity leave after four months of employment. I don't feel comfortable telling them until after my four months of employment. And I think I can hide it until then. Oh man. What should I say in this discussion when I tell them the news? I'm open to sharing my infertility journey as I do think that would help them understand my situation, but I'm not sure that's necessary. I hope to be with this employer for a long time. So I really want to make a good impression and not be labeled as the girl who started a job while pregnant help i got some strong feelings on this one ken share it um the last thing i want any new mother in the world to do particularly somebody because i've been down this road that when you get the most incredible joyous news of your life the first thing you think to do is to hang your head.

1:38:17And I hate that.

1:38:19Dr. John Delony:Now, when you said you've been down this road, you mean you hired somebody that this happened to you? No, I've experienced, yes, I've had this happen, but also I've experienced infertility in my house, right? Okay, gotcha. And so what I want everybody in this situation, you and your husband doing is cheering from the rooftops, right? And there's a reality here. So my question number one would be, is this a big multinational corporation that has some detached HR that has a inflexible, here's just how we do things. Or are you working at a place like here that if we had a four, I don't know what our, I don't think we had this policy at all, but if we had a four month policy and somebody got pregnant at month three, I'm confident that we'd be like, oh, that's amazing.

1:39:01Go get them. Right. So I, that would be my first thing. The second thing is I don't ever want you compromising your integrity for some down the road kind of thing. I want you to be fully honest, fully whole, fully you, fully celebrating. And if your company fires you, you dodged a bullet like the matrix.

1:39:25Dr. John Delony:That's right. And you don't want to work for a company that is that soulless and that lacking that much integrity on their side. So that's my take on it. I can't add anything to that. That's exactly what I was going to say. You have to tell the truth. I think this is actually a powerful story. And I think anybody with a heart is going to go, well, that's a bummer. It's a bummer for us because we hire you and now you're going to go away. But my gosh, we're happy for you. And let's flip it around. So that's a sign. They are right, if you hold this, to go, oh, she's somebody who will hide stuff from us.

1:39:55Dr. John Delony:Yeah, 100%. You've got to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God. That's the deal. And you let the chips fall where they may. Because here's the deal. You're not going to change the pregnancy. Right. So life is already dictated, this is my reality. Yeah. just please don't go in there. And this is easy for me to say, please don't go in there and apologize. I'm so sorry. I walk in there and say, after years of infertility, we're pregnant and I'm having a, we're crazy people say that, but I'm pregnant. I'm having a baby. And can we talk logistics? Yeah. And that's what I do.

1:40:28Dr. John Delony:Yeah. Love it. Jen is up in St. Louis, Missouri. Jen, how can we help today? Hi, I'm so excited to speak to both of you. It is truly an honor. Thank you for being you and being awesome and being a part of this team. I am a longtime Ramsey fan, so I'm going to try to use your terms to cut to the meat of what I'm asking about. I got talked into starting. Can you hear me? Yep. I got talked into starting a VUL policy. I have gazelle-like intensity. My husband and I both do. We have two full-time jobs. We have real estate with multiple streams of income, so we were left with a lot of liquid money we weren't sure what to do with.

1:41:05I own a school for young minds, and I really want to dedicate my life to that. I had a goal in my head to be financially retired. I have a number I want to hit in 12 years when I'm 55. I got talked into VUL policy, but after listening to you all for a few months, I think maybe I paid a giant stupid tax at a velocity of which I put money into this for about 11 months. I don't know what to do. So I would love your advice.

1:41:32Dr. John Delony:All right. I want to make sure we catch everybody up. when you say VUL, you're talking about a variable universal life policy, otherwise known as whole life. Yeah. I mean, you know what we believe about whole life. I mean, I was on with Dave earlier this week. And I mean, every time he gets the call, I just get nervous and I slightly move my chair to the right because I feel the heat emanating off of him. John has been in the same position. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, good day to call in with this because we're not going to go on a giant You can't see because of how we show the show, but there is burn marks at the top of the studio right above.

1:42:09You know, I never noticed it.

1:42:10Dr. John Delony:It's charred. Yeah, Dave doesn't have any hair on the top of his head, and the smoke and the fire shoots up. True story. That's why Dave is bald. Whole life. You got it. So the answer to the question. Well, hold on. Can I have one more? Not yet. Let's just bury the city. You should not have bought it. You're aware of it. You don't need me or John to pile on. Get out of it. Don't put another nickel in it. I want to hear her. All right, now it's time for her. But I'm different. Okay, go ahead. Well, my druther is that at 55, I want to have income to replace. Because right now I work in tech and I run the school.

1:42:49Okay. And I want to have enough income so that my daughters don't suffer the lack of income that will shift down to. So that was the rule, right? the other piece of this is that I was talking to it because we have health concerns in my family and it was like what if you have a health concern and then you want income if you know you're not dead but you're still alive and you get expensive I know but you're you're you're taking you're taking your money you're handing it to somebody who's going to invest it and they're going to pay you an embarrassingly low rate like they're going to take the money and build themselves a new building and drive a newer car.

1:43:26And so take the money you're already putting in there and put it in the exact same market they're putting it in, except keep the return.

1:43:33Dr. John Delony:Or put that money into insurance. If you've got some type of real health thing and you've got doctors saying there's a high probability, the point is we want you to take care of your money. This is not a good product. It's never been a good product. You've heard us rant on this before. And if you need more on this, I'm going to see the balance of my time to the gentleman from Texas because he's actually nicer than me. I'm not. This is a bad idea. You know, it's a bad idea. Here's what I'm curious about. You are clearly brilliant. Brilliant. And so you've mentioned probably four times, maybe five, that you were talked into this.

1:44:10I'm wondering if the bigger issue here is you're not a woman who gets talked into anything, but you did on this one and you're kicking yourself and you're trying to do some mathematics, like some gymnastics to make this thing okay because you did a thing that you don't like to do. Tell him what he's done, Bob. Pay the stupid tax. You're still awesome. I almost said a swear word. You're still rad. You're awesome. Go on and don't make this mistake again. How would you suggest how I could achieve what I'm looking for? Is it just putting into brokerages account all of our extra money into that? It depends on the nature and the acuity of your health issues.

1:44:48If I've got money in high yield savings account that I have decided I want access to it is worth the potential return on it. And then I put the rest of it. Yeah. And brokerage accounts are in real estate.

1:44:59Dr. John Delony:Could be that now, again, you need to, this is a medical professional. I'm not telling you to do this, but if you know the specificity of this, we've got a history of this, maybe long-term care insurance. Absolutely. So this is, again, a long-term care is far more safe. Am I right, John? Yes, because it's a policy. What are you worried about your daughter suddenly starving from? Well, I grew up poor and I have a scarcity mindset, which I'm working through. There you go. I've really, really created space around that because I've kind of become a bear and fearful and then I make stupid mistakes when I'm asking big questions.

1:45:35I'm with you. We're the same person.

1:45:38Dr. John Delony:What is your net worth right now? What do you have in retirement? it. So we have over a million dollar net worth and we've filled every bucket you can normally fill. Stop it, Jen. You just lost the sympathy of everyone in the studio audience in all of America. You're fine. I'm going to send you building a non-anxious life. My book is a gift to you because you've got deeper rooted challenges and I've lived your life and I'll not your life, but I've got the same scarcity challenges. I don't want you to read this book and use it as a roadmap for what comes next. You're fine financially.

1:46:25Dr. John Delony:Hey guys, George Camel here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators. If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th. It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories, and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw, and Dr. John Deloney. It's totally free, and when you register, you'll be entered to win our$3 ,000 giveaway. So, just head to fpu.com slash rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com slash rally.

1:47:14Dr. John Delony:Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, and I know there's a lot of you out there because the data tells us so, and I've been there before, it's exhausting. No shame in your game, but we do want to say, come on into the pool of having margin. The water's real nice. I got a big floaty, a little Arnold Palmer in the cup holder, and a really wacky straw. It's great. It's great over here in the debt-free pool. We'd love you to join us. Some smooth jazz playing in the background. Thank you. Absolutely right. Free every dollar training is what I'm attempting to set up. This is free. Did I mention that it's free?

1:47:50Dr. John Delony:And it's hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. George just hosted one a couple days ago. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget using every dollar. And we're going to help you find$9 ,000 of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. You can sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. I should mention, not only are you learning in a low-pressure setting, you also get a chance to ask questions. And did I mention that it was free? I did. Everydollar.com slash webinar. See you there. Robbie's up in Omaha. Give me a Peyton Manning Omaha real quick, John.

1:48:24Dr. John Delony:Do you know what I'm talking about? You don't watch football, do you? I do. Yeah. He missed the moment. The moment's gone. Robbie is there in Omaha. Robbie, how can we help? Hey, oh my gosh. Thanks for taking my call. I just randomly called you guys out of the blue, just kind of out of really just being extremely stressed out. Okay, well, we're here for you. What's going on? Thank you, guys. Yeah, so currently in the process of a divorce, it's pretty nasty overall. We combined between the two of us. We have, and I'm just speaking my debts and our joint debts, we have about$500K combined. Does that include a house or is that not include a house?

1:49:19Dr. John Delony:It does. It does include a house. Give us the debt. And I can give you the breakdown. Yeah, give us the breakdown minus the house, please. Okay, so minus the house, I have$170 ,000 in student loans. Okay. I also have$20 ,000 in personal loans. Okay. We both each have our own cars. Hers is$9 ,000. Mine is$7 ,000. Is her name on that one or is your name on both? My name's on both. Okay, so let's call it$16 ,000 in cars, correct? Yep. Okay. And a quick question. Were you all married when you were in college? Not now. It was after college. Okay. What other debt do we have left? Yeah, so I also have$9 ,000 in medical bills, and we each have combined$8 ,000 in credit card debt.

1:50:25Okay.

1:50:27Dr. John Delony:Is the divorce final? No. We're in the mediation process right now. Okay. What's nasty about it when you say that?

1:50:43It's, I mean, it's been just nonstop harassment for a very long time. and just more on the emotional and mental load.

1:50:59Dr. John Delony:What is your income? So my income, it was$73 ,000 annually. Right now, for the last two months, it's dropped down to only$10 ,000. um i transitioned and now whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa you were making 73 000 gross and you said you just transitioned into a job where you're making ten thousand dollars gross for the year yeah that's not even real what is happening give me the details as quickly as possible so we can dive in on this problem. So I worked a job where I had to move into third shift. And prior to that, I did not have legal counsel. I was trying to make all my payments on time. I was trying to make all of our payments on time, and she just left me with everything.

1:52:08No, no, no, no, no.

1:52:09Dr. John Delony:I get that. I'm sorry. How do you go from, what is your job to where you're only making$10 ,000 a year? Are you in healthcare? Yep. Okay. Well, I don't understand. How did you roll down to$10 ,000? Like you can go to Starbucks today or go to McDonald's and double that. Okay. What are you doing to make 10 grand now? So I'm working at the Y trying to build my client. Okay. Did you get let go? Did something happen in your medical practice? No. No. So as soon as I moved to third shift, that's when she came in and filed a temporary order, and I lost custody of my kids. Okay. I lost custody of my kids.

1:52:53So you have a restraining order out against you right now? No. I have no restraining order. Okay.

1:52:59Dr. John Delony:Let me ask. I'm so sorry. I've got to lean in. We have limited time. Okay, so we don't have a lot of time for backstory. I've got to get some facts. Yeah. What specifically did you do in health care? What was your title position? What were you? Were you a nurse? What were you doing? No, so I wasn't in health care. I was in corrections. Okay, so you were a corrections officer. Yeah. Did you lose your job? No, I resigned because I, in order for me to even try to get custody of my kids back and because she took full custody, because of the schedule change, my lawyer said, it doesn't matter how much you make right now in order to get even joint custody, you have to have a schedule that is in the best interest of the kids.

1:53:53Dr. John Delony:Okay, got it. Okay, got it. Now, here's my only question. I understand the lawyer, and I'm no lawyer. I can't push back. John, you may have an opinion on this, but again, you have a massive income problem, and your lawyer is an idiot if your lawyer isn't considering the income because you've got to take care of you, not to mention the kids. So why aren't we working a job in the same YMCA schedule in corrections or something else? So I am actually just about to get a job that is more in the health and wellness field. How much will you make when you get that job, and when will that happen? $78 ,000 a year.

1:54:33Okay. And when does that start? Yeah. So I don't have an official start date. Right now I'm going to, it's through a company. Okay. Listen, until you have a start date, and I'm hoping that you're trying to be coy because you're in the middle of a divorce. You want to be careful about what you say because the way you're putting it out doesn't make a lot of logical sense.

1:54:59Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I'm struggling. your attorney's advice you can't if you file bankruptcy today you're basically going to discharge like 30 grand you can't discharge 170 ,000 bucks right and so the idea that you're going to bankrupt this money away is false and so this the next layer is I don't care what how much money you make just go do this thing or you're going to lose your kids you're going to lose your house and your kids and your car and your food you don't have any money man and so the idea that you're going to go for making 75 grand third shift. I get that's a miserable life. I know those guys, the guys who work third shift and corrections are just studs.

1:55:37And that doesn't mean you hit the pendulum so far, you start working for less than my son probably makes more than that. And he's 15. Like, like you got to go say, okay, cool. I'm going to go throw boxes. I'm going to go run deliveries. I'm going to work like crazy during these hours when my wife has a kid so that I can have all my days off. And if you weird but great um go get a whole bunch of jobs in between but you're you've backed yourself into a crazy corner and dude you owe a hundred how did you get 170 000 for a corrections job it wasn't for corrections what was your degree in yeah criminology and criminal justice go get a freaking job yeah go be a policeman dude go to the go to the academy this is nuts unless you're Unless you're trying to hide money for a divorce, which I hope to God you're not doing, because that's going to come out.

1:56:30Dr. John Delony:Something's not adding up. Yeah. I tell you what I do want to do, because we spend so much time just excavating some facts from you. Can we set him up? Let's get him one, our gift, a session with a financial coach to kind of map out the future here once we get the freaking job.

1:56:53Thank you.

1:56:58Thank you.

1:57:30Dr. John Delony:And then quite a pivot from Isaiah 54 to our quote of the day from Ozzy Osbourne. Okay. You've got to try and take things to the next level or you'll just get stuck in a rut. Might as well have been a quote from Farmer's Almanac. We're going off the rails on a crazy train. Not sure what the team did there, but I'm just here to read what they put in front of me. You know, there you go. Michael is joining us now in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Michael, how can we help? Good evening, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? Yeah, man. I'm wanting to make a retirement plan for January of 27.

1:58:16I'll meet the retirement protocol for my company, but I'll only be 54. and I want to see if I can make the same money after I retire. Okay.

1:58:30Dr. John Delony:How do you think you're going to go about doing that? So through work, we have a pension plan. I have two options on my pension plan. One is that at retirement, I will have$80 ,000 a year on pension. My last year's income was roughly$144. Taxable income was$120 after I funded my retirement stuff. So I'll be at$80 there, and my$457 will be, you know, they're projecting$450, but right now it's at$404. So I would like to still make that$120 to$140. a 140. Okay, now when you say that, I want to make sure we're on the same page with you. When you say that, you mean through pulling out from your retirement accounts, or are you saying go above and beyond, and by going out, I'm going to work another job while pulling retirement from my old job?

1:59:33So, man, I'll tell you, ideally, I would like to be able to retire and live off that money invested. What are you going to do, brother? Man, I'll tell you something, man, guys, It's probably like most of y 'all. I've worked since I was big enough to push a lawnmower. So I'm a family homebody. So here's the thing. All the data tells me that the moment a – and this is not universal gendered, but I'm going to make it so. The day a man quits work and does not have a purpose, his body shuts down. Health outcomes worsen. everything falls off a cliff so when you tell me i just want dude i've been working hard my whole life dude i'm with you i've had a mowing job since i was eight years old like i'm with you this idea that i want to do nothing i'm telling you right now as my neighbor and my friend it's going to kill you so i see that i see that i'm involved with my family uh we're all christians not that that matters but uh yeah i might do something but i i just want to know that i can take this money and my, and my, so that would, whatever I got would be, you know, what fluff or, you know, mad money or whatever.

2:00:51Dr. John Delony:So what's your total, what do you have total in retirement? I have 404 and a 457 and then my pension will be 80 ,000 a year. And you, and so could you live off of just the pension alone of 80 ,000? If you run some numbers. Okay. So here's, here's the practical answer to your question. Okay. Here's the practical answer. John, Ken, I want to know, can I live off of what I got right now? So you got to run a budget and you currently have a budget, I hope. I know it. It's not written down. Bro, you're hilarious. Michael, just listen to the question you're asking us. I want to stop working. I want to keep making the exact same amount of money I made when I was working.

2:01:40I don't want to really do anything, but kind of be a family guy. And I kind of got it all up in my head. We are telling you, we're promising you as your neighbor here in Nashville, this is a recipe for a car crash. Yeah.

2:01:52Dr. John Delony:It's not going to work. So let's get to the tactical. Okay. First thing is, is you need to download every dollar. It's our budgeting apps. It's the best thing. And you need to start tinkering with it and plug in real numbers and no longer have this, I got a general idea. No, no. We need to know what we actually need to live on. Okay. I'm talking your basic four walls, food, clothing, utilities, your housing, transportation, all of that stuff. Okay. And then, and then, you know, what you and mama think retirement life is going to look like, you know, what's our weekend thing? Are we, are we going down to, you know, to the, to what's the chicken, the hot chicken place in Nashville?

2:02:33Dr. John Delony:Patty B's. Patty B's. Well, what are we doing? You know, and so here's the deal. First things first. What is our actual operating budget? Okay. Second. Okay. Do we have any debt? If we have debt, we need to clear debt. Do you have any? So I have$168 ,000 left on my house. Okay. That's low for two point something. So it's$1 ,000 a month. Okay. And then the rest is just the, you know, living expenses of the house. So you have no consumer debt? No. Great. So we checked that off the list. So we've now got a budget. And so now, Michael, you need to call John and I and go, you know, I need to know if I've got enough.

2:03:15Dr. John Delony:Once we have a budget, we know what it's going to take to live. Now we start matching it up with, we know we have$80 ,000 coming in from the pension. And so we go, okay, what is the take home on that? Okay. And so we start matching it up. And then we've got$450 ,000 over here. and if I draw, how much would I need to draw from the 450 to make up the difference of the 80? Okay, you still tracking with me? Correct. Yes, sir. Okay, and so then we have a number, and then we go, if I draw that much, can I draw from the 450 enough to offset what's missing from the 80 if I need a little bit more, and that's what you've laid out to me, and so can I draw—hold on a second.

2:03:57Dr. John Delony:Hold on. Can I draw that out and not touch the principle? I think it's going to be tight. And I think you would also need to sit down with what we call smart investor pros. Go to Ramsey Solutions. If you don't have one, get one. Interview three, four, five. And sit down and let a pro look at your retirement nest egg and what you want to do and what you want to live off of. And by the way, they're going to need to know a real budget for them to advise you. Can I tell you something, Michael? Yes, sir. This is not a baby step. This is just John and my friend Michael, who are neighbors here in Nashville.

2:04:31You're 54, is that what you said? I will be when I want to retire. Okay. Give me a ballpark. You don't have to tell me the job because we're on national radio, but what do you do for a living-ish?

2:04:45I'm in safety. You're in what? Sales? In safety. In safety. There you go. Okay. can I tell you I would sit down and it's going to be a cheesy exercise and it's not the dollar amount you ask but it's going to be an important conversation to have with yourself I would love for you to have an imaginary conversation you can write a letter you can just do it in your mind and have a conversation with 65 year old you and here's the question I would ask if you work two more years and put all that down and pay your house off are you going to be glad you did that versus getting out and having an asset that you still owe money on as you're trying to also retire and do these fun things that you want to do that's just me i don't think i would pull that trigger at 54 i love that until my house was

2:05:35Dr. John Delony:paid off that's just me i think it's great advice right so i've got a uh plan uh two options on pension. I can, they have a formula. I plug in the day. Second option on the pension is we're allowed to take 50 % of our, this is the 80 grand, not the 457, 50 % of that up to a certain age we can get as a lump sum right now that lump sum. But if you take 50%, the 80 goes to 40, right? So the lump sum in addition to my 457 right now is about$620 ,000 lump sum. So it'll be$620 ,000 plus the$440 ,000 and then$40 ,000 a year. Dave can do that math in his head. I would recommend you sit down with a smart investor because I would be tempted to take, if the math works, to take that lump sum, pay my house off, and then put the rest in an investment.

2:06:30if it's going to accrue faster than your pension, which I bet it will. But do not do that based on my advice. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and rattle that off. That's what I would do. And then take the 40. But I also would not quit my life at 54. You're halfway home, brother.

2:06:45Dr. John Delony:54 is young, man. Yeah. Keep on working. I love your advice. Find some purpose, man.

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