There's Always Hope When Facing Financial Hardship

25:53But I was just a stickler on things. And I think we just got to a point where we were doing so well. Kind of let your foot off the gas. I, I, uh, and I made, and I made a lot of mistakes and, and it's, you know, it's been about, it's been about three, three months now where I haven't, I haven't been doing, you know, anything and just really, really focusing, um, just refocusing, I should say, um, just taking care, just taking care of this. And then I guess then my next goal is, our next goal, I should say, is I'm just going to go full throttle at our mortgage. That's awesome. That's great. It's always interesting because we get these calls a lot when addiction, some level of something, is paired with this debt.

26:52That's a pretty common equation. and I think with the extra hill to climb when you're paying this off is like I think there is like a deeper motivation there, especially when you're changing your life and changing your behaviors, but there also can easily be such shame attached to it, right? It's not like, oh gosh, we just decided to go on all these crazy vacations and got an$18 ,000 in credit card debt, right? 100%. Yes, so you, but 100 % times. But what you were saying, John, is letting that part go because Justin, getting rid of this stuff, we can make a plan. Like that is easy, but it really, it's going to be a more fulfilling journey when you do that deep work, which you may have already done.

27:27And listen to me, like, I need you to internalize this. Okay. You hearing me? Yes. If you start this debt paying off journey and you saddle up next to your wife and y 'all agree, y 'all, y 'all make a blood oath and y 'all pay this debt off. If you wake up every day and keep your budget and check your every dollar app, we're going to hook you up with that for free. If you do all that stuff because you think you're a piece of crap and this is what you deserve, I promise you 100 % you're going to crash and burn. If you wake up every day and say, I'm doing this because I'm worth not being chained to banks and to mortgages.

28:09I'm doing this because I want to be a guy that my wife can anchor into, my kids can anchor into because they deserve that. Like, they're worth that. You'll do this forever. And that's why shame will bury you if you're not careful. Okay? Okay, because that's really what I've been doing. I know it is. I can hear it on you. You cannot go through the baby steps because you think you suck and you're an idiot and you're a loser and this is your punishment. This is a path to freedom. It's not flogging you for what you did in the past. Okay? Can I ask you guys a quick question about it? It's not, I mean, I just, it's kind of one of those things where I just, how did I get us here?

28:58I know that. Hold on. It's not a helpful question right now. That's a question between you and your therapist. We're going to start doing the next right thing before we know why. Okay? Because that's a trap. It's a cultural trap. Okay. You're trying to figure out and get to the root of why I'm going to stop yelling at my wife before I stop yelling. That's the wrong order. But you do need to go see it. You've got to do the work. You've got to talk to somebody. You need to be in a recovery group. You need to do that stuff. Of course. But we're going to start. We're going to stop gambling today. We're going to stop borrowing money today.

29:37before we get to the root of what happened when all that stuff is well and good. I wrote a book about it. It's important, but it's not the right order. Right now we're going to stop the harming behavior. And Rachel's going to walk you through a plan right here. It's pretty simple, especially for guys that make as much money as y 'all do. Yeah, so... Can I just say one real quick thing? I guess I got a little off track. And we do have, I guess I would consider a large sum of money, but I guess I would consider that my wife's because her mom did pass away about four years ago. And it's in a Roth IRA.

30:17Yeah, I wouldn't touch that, Justin, yet. So keep that. Anything retirement, 401k, Roths, do not touch. Not because it's hers, but because it's in a retirement account. That's right, because of the tax. Yes, yes. Keep that there. And then if you guys have any stocks, any savings anywhere else, throw it at this debt. But honestly, you guys can have this paid off. I mean, with your income in 18 months, you could do this very, very quickly, Justin. So you guys pay off the smallest debt first to the largest and include the HELOC. And then later you can start investing and then we can look at paying off the house.

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31:37And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM's offering new members a 50 % credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at chministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey.

32:18the ramsey show question of the day oh excuse me oh it's rachel's going through puberty by why refi if your private loans are in default and other lenders said no why refi could be your next step why refi was built for the situation helping borrowers refinance with a low fixed rates and an affordable payment so that you can get back to winning with money. Check out why refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y R E F Y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Oh man. I just pre-read this question and I felt a rant coming on. So you have to go first, Rachel. I can't wait. Read it. Today's question comes from Marco in Arkansas.

33:00Marco, this is for you, brother. Why do you encourage people to have children in baby step two while they're paying off debt? I understand that babies can be unexpected, but why do you encourage listeners to have a child when it will add a large line item to the budget that could go towards paying off debt? If you didn't have that child, the money saved could go towards debt. Wouldn't that be a better plan? Okay. Here's what I would say. It would be if the only thing you cared about in life was money. Money is like a thing to help your life. So create a life that you love and let money support that.

33:38So yes, get married during baby step two. Have babies during baby step two. Like money is not your life. This is not your life. Now, sometimes it has to be for a season to get yourself in a better financial position. And you may be kind of obsessed for a year or two to get out of debt. Like absolutely. But that doesn't pause the bigger things in life, which are your health, your spiritual life, your family. Like those things trump money. You have to understand that. Now, again, I will say with the caveat always, there are sacrifices you make, but we're not sacrificing those things. Those are, that creates a full life.

34:11So no, have babies. Have babies and babies step two. Have two babies and babies step two. Make it a twofer. Have five. Have five babies, Marco. I wonder if Marco has babies. I will say out of all the Ramsey personalities, not to throw him under the bus. He's not here. Maybe he can come in and do a segment. George is someone that's like, hey, if you are stressed to the max and you keep on having babies, you're going to continue to be stressed. Like he, he has, I know, but George also opens his garage with a cell phone. He's just, he's like a special case. I'm saying on an extreme case, extreme, extreme, extreme.

34:46You may, I don't know, think twice about, I think that's what George may say, but overall my philosophy is the big things in life are always going to trump money. And so have a life that you want. Well, go John. Now here's your rant. Go. That's just, I, what you have to rant. I barely ranted. No, I'm good. Because I'll be ugly. No, you won't. Go. You're never. Let me say this. As somebody who we struggled to have kids for years, we've lost a lot of pregnancies. And I've got two kids that if you had told, like, again, like look at on paper, you have a child. It messes up your money. It changes your relationship.

35:25Changes your sex life. It changes everything. Yeah. Not just money. And so the algorithm on paper doesn't work. and if I could snap my fingers and have one thing different in my life, I would have more kids running around my house because of the depth and the purpose and the, like, you don't know who you are, I believe, until you feel the weight on the squat rack. And that can be, some people can't have kids. I've been there. And so that can be in your purpose. That can be in the things that you're doing. That can be in the responsibilities that you put yourself underneath that you get to carry.

35:59That's where you fight purpose. And so I can't think of anything greater, any, any greater calling if you're able to, than to go have kids. And so to pause it, because I'm a part of this plan or man, you'll pay off debt as you go. Cause I mean, following your same line of logic, Marco. And again, by the way, I want to be sensitive to those who can't, I've been there. I know that to those who've lost practice, I've been there. I get it. And I can't also not say that it's not super stressful, doesn't cause fights in your marriage. It doesn't cause it's hard. Yeah. And anything in the world worth doing is hard.

36:36Right. But following your same thing, Marco, like let's not have a car then. Cause that's an extra expense. Let's just walk and let's not have a home. Let's, let's live in a tent. We knew that cheaper. Like you can follow this line of thinking all the way out. So we want you to follow a plan that you can actually do. We want you to make sacrifices where you need to. And the sacrifices we're talking about are going out to eat for God's sakes and vacations for crying out loud and working extra job. All that stuff's important, especially for a season. But man, the big stuff, like build a marriage with somebody, we all get out of debt.

37:10That's amazing. Navigate having a kid and having to also make sacrifices. Yes. Learn how to say no and learn how to say not yet. All those things make you, give you the life that you really want down the road. So. and I would say too along those same lines I think it's so common for people to say we'll have kids win and it could be a financial goal a career goal a whole thing and it's like there will always be something to be chasing right so just just do it yeah that's where I've changed in life I'm a little bit like have kids have them soon have them soon if you yeah well Marco you're fun thanks for the question hey you know what I'm guessing I'm guessing because you're bad for being his wife here's what I think I think Marco's wife wants to have kids.

37:51I know. And he's trying to come up with reasons to not. I want to hug her. Have six, Marco. Have six. Okay, let's go to Mariah in San Diego. Hi, Mariah. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so nervous to talk to you guys. Oh, don't be. I'm nervous. I'm sitting by Rachel Cruz for crying out loud. How do you think I feel? I know. We're glad you called. My husband says I'm a glutton for paying by calling because he knows you're going to yell at me. No. You called when Dave's not here. We will not yell. I know. I am relieved. So we have been half listeners for the last eight years of our marriage.

38:30And we pretty much impulsively bought a house because we wanted to have a house before our first baby. And so we've been in this house for four years now. Okay. And it is 50 % of our income. Okay. And it is exhausting. It's like sucking the life out of us. However, my husband runs his business out of our three-car garage so we don't we don't really know what to do because we have renters and that's how we stay alive and so you have renters in your home correct um to our family and then one somebody that we found um and we did background checks and everything and he's phenomenal so we love our renters and we love the environment in our home It's just if one of them were to back out or all three of them, you know, we would not survive.

39:24Yes. Is it 50 % with just what you guys are paying plus what the renters are paying or that includes the renters? 50 % includes the renters. We get$2 ,400 a month from renters. And we make$6 ,400 on our portion. So we get about almost$10 ,000 a month. on average it's about$9 ,500 a month. Okay. And all of our house mortgage and bills come up to about$53 a month. How much is just the mortgage? Not the bills, but just the mortgage. $43. $43, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're definitely in a high-risk situation and you're having to depend on these people exactly how you're feeling. Yeah, I think I, unless he's going to be getting a significant raise anytime soon is the business he's running his own business is there an upward trajectory like are you guys looking out and say okay yeah in two years it's gonna double like have you have you done projections like how it's been a pattern so far or so he just started in may of last year so he's not even a year in and he did 125 000 before taxes last year um and we took home about 86 of it.

40:39And so he's been doing really well and he took off. And because of his experience with his previous job, he's got really frequent clients and he's getting a lot of really great work. So he sees a lot of growth and I see a lot of growth in the company. How fast will that grow? Potentially in the next year, we're even thinking that he could double it. So we see a lot of growth, but that's the biggest thing is we need the three car garage because renting a space out here for that price is at least$4 ,000 to$6 ,000 for the space that he needs with the tools and everything that he would need to move.

41:18Right, right. But my fear is you've already left the house.

41:24What do you mean by that? Like my fear is you're already out. And y 'all can come up with a bunch of reasons to stay, but I feel you're already out. Yeah, the stress is weighing on you, Mariah. So what I would do is I would have benchmarks for you guys, because if you doubled it, then it goes from 50 percent to about 35 percent if my numbers are right. And then if you double the business again, right, if it really is that successful, you guys will be fine in 24 months. But the question is, you have to have benchmarks. And if you can sustain that for 24 months and hold your breath and say, let's see if this works.

41:54I you could. But if if it does not double in a year, you guys have to have a hard and fast rule to say we were selling. We're getting out of this if it does not happen. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right.

42:28You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

43:03But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

43:52Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And the phone lines are open. You can give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we're going to go to Little Rock, Arkansas and talk to Skylar. Hi, Skylar. Hey, how are you doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Well, I make annual income of$31 ,700 a year. and I'm kind of in a bind with a car payment and ATV payment situation too. The car is worth like$28 ,000 when I got done financing it and the payment's like$529 a month. Holy smokes. Yeah. And then you went and bought an ATV?

44:42Yeah, for$10 ,000 and that's$252 a month. I don't want to kick you while you're down, but that's a very Arkansas thing to do, right? Yeah, yeah. It's a Texas thing to do, too, so there we go. Some pot talking to the kettle here. Wow. Yeah, it's terrible. So I'm thinking I'm just going to have to get rid of this car. Correct. And I got a cash car sitting over here. It's a Honda Civic 2009, so I'm fixing it. I'm fixing it up. Good for you. How much money do we have to put into that? Not very much. I got a new water pump installed, and all it needs now is a oil. Well, that's great. oil gasket and it'd be good to go.

45:24So why are you calling us? You already know what to do. Well, so you got$28 ,000. Is that what you owe on the car? How much could you sell it for? Oh, no. Say it again. Say it again. The negative equity is$10 ,000. So I'd be negative $10 ,000 upside on the car. Okay. So you can sell it for$18 ,000 is what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. So you just have to take a small loan out if you can for$10 ,000. and how about the any way is there any way i can go through fair winds or is there any possible way i could do it that way you'll have to call them and yeah they'll sit down and check out your your history yeah yeah yeah i mean a credit union or a local credit union would be a great option they're usually more willing to work with people and looking at their specific situation how about the atv what could you sell it for oh i'm not really sure i haven't looked in the value on the ATV yet.

46:18Okay. It might be, maybe the value is like 7 ,000 possibly since it's new. Yep. Well, I would encourage you on that one to probably just try to save up the three grand if you can for the difference and be done with it. And thank God you have this other car. I mean, honestly, that's a lifesaver in this situation. I used to be debt-free. Yeah. I used to be debt-free a long time ago. I was managing money really good and I just had a, I messed up. Yeah. We've all been there, dude. It happens. How old are you, Skylar? I am 27. Okay. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I work at NDX Greens. I'm a delivery driver working three days a week.

46:58I deliver teeth to the North Arkansas region. What do you deliver? Teeth. I deliver dentures. I'm a delivery driver for green. This is becoming my favorite call of all time ever. I deliver teeth. Amazing. To North Arkansas. Amazing. Amazing. What are you doing the other two days a week? The other four days a week. Well, I spark all the time and I just work. You spark all the time. Is that like a weed reference? No, it is a it's a grocery delivery platform through Walmart. Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah. How much is your teeth delivery job? How much does that pay? $15,$20 an hour.

47:43Okay. Do you get more doing that or the spark? Grocery delivery. Grocery delivery. I could pick up like maybe around like four weeks, like$800. So that's a little extra money in my pocket. It's just if I can get these car payments situated, I'll be so much better off. Yeah, but you're still very, very economically vulnerable, brother. Yeah, yeah. I want to get you up to 50 or something, right? Yeah, you can't afford a flat tire. No. Okay, so. I could barely afford tires on this car, and I had to put it on a credit card, which is dumb. No, you didn't. You chose to. But here's the deal. Yeah, I chose to.

48:22Here's the deal. Why don't you pursue more stable work? well i could possibly find a different position it's just you could 1 000 million billion percent find a different position it's just i love three days a week though but sometimes we have to sacrifice order to achieve what we want to achieve i think we do skylar i think we do 40 hours a week working dude yeah we gotta we gotta we gotta up the we gotta up the ante you have to get in the game of life my brother because Skylar not that money brings happiness we're not saying that but there is something about having stability meaningful work does bring happiness okay fair thank you Ken Coleman yes thank you it does if you ever call me Ken again it is true if I could be more stable and have no payments I mean that's just the way to go well exactly but I want I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book.

49:21And an emergency fund and a retirement account. Like there's some, yeah, there's. Are you dating? I do have the EveryDollar app. Oh, good. Yeah, but you don't have any money to budget with. Yes, he does. He's got like three grand a month. And 80 % of it goes to car payments, which is what we're getting wind of. He's got three budget categories. Food, not dying, ATV. Okay, brother, I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it has a career assessment in there. I want you to get serious. I want you to do this exercise tonight. I'm being totally serious. And I appreciate you having fun with us on this call.

49:57Listen, I want you to write a letter to 37-year-old you tonight. Okay. And I want you to write him a letter about the life he's going to have because you chose to get off your butt and stop coasting literally through life. Yeah. And the work you put in today, and you're entering into your late 20s and into your early 30s will be the platform from strength, from integrity, from work ethic, from skills and— Contribution to the world. Yes, purpose. People that you meet and shake hands with and they learn to trust you. Those things will be the anchor points of your life at 37. And so I want you to write yourself a letter and say, here's who I chose that we were going to become.

50:44You're welcome. and how I discovered the Ramsey show is I know this guy that lives in Heaver. He told me about the Ramsey show and I got involved and I started listening to the podcast. I was like, wow, this is the same situation I'm in. Well, game on then. A mirrored situation. Yes. I listen to the podcast every day, going down the road, delivering dentures. Not every day, only three days a week. Yeah, three days. Well, if I can find old ones, I'll review the old ones. Oh, Skylar, you know what? You're great. I would. I'm with John. You're awesome. Yeah. Finding some purpose. You know what I mean?

51:22Like finding. By the way, delivery dangerous is such a great gift. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that, but it's the, it's the coasting sleepwalking vibe that we're getting that it's like, Hey, just let's add a little bit more. A whole bunch more. A whole bunch more of excitement and spark. Ask yourself that scary, terrifying question. You only get one, one roll of the dice in this life. One life. Are you going to, are you just going to cash it out? Barely getting by. driving three days a week? Or are you going to say, hey, I was put on this planet to contribute and here's what that's going to look like.

51:54And part of contribution means I'm going to have peace. I'm going to be anchored. I'm going to have some security so that I can offer that for other people. And man, that means not working, just kind of coasting three days a week. That means getting after it. Yeah. Hold on the line, Scholar. Christian will pick up. We'll get you Ken's book. But you have some great foundational things that you're doing already, you know, with Habits with Money. We're going to have to make just some big changes to really leapfrog and jump forward in some progress, which I believe you can do.

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53:44Next, we have Susan in Indianapolis. Hi, Susan. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks so much for having me. What an honor it is to speak with the both of you. Oh, thanks for calling in. How can we help? Okay. My question in the most condensed form is how should I handle finances as I go through a divorce? Oh, man. What's going on? um told myself I wouldn't cry oh it's okay no you're good I'm glad you're here my husband of 21 years decided to walk away um and I was completely blindsided by it um which has left me living in fear and uncertain of my future so I'm trying to solve for peace and security.

54:39And Dr. John, earlier in this, today's call, you had talked about having options and I have some options and I was just wondering if you can help me with the best step forward. Yeah, go for it. Put some on the table for us. um well so we currently live in um my husband's family farm we purchased the home a few years ago and remodeled and i thought this would be my forever home um i do not want to leave however he does not want the home but he does not want me living there because i will no longer be a part of that family. So before we get going, I want to give you a couple of frameworks. Okay.

55:28Sure. Whenever somebody files for divorce, whenever somebody says I'm leaving, what happens next? You go from married to we go to a business transaction. Right. And so I want you to have this, I want you to tattoo this on your, like not for real, but like I want you to tattoo this on your spirit okay okay he no longer gets a vote y 'all are making a business transaction when he chose to leave you he took his name all out of the box that sits in the middle of your table of people who get to speak into your life and for a time being he's going to be replaced with a lawyer you get what i'm saying yes and this is how you begin because what you're feeling what you're what you're talking about i've heard this i mean thousands of times what you're what you're that that sense of loss and bewilderment there's literally a death and it was your marriage and you have to grieve it as such but that takes time but that other thing you're feeling is a sense that you don't even trust yourself right right how did i miss this i should have seen this coming?

56:45What should I have done differently? All those questions. And there's never going to be great answers to those questions, but it's natural that you ask them. But the way you begin to regain trust in yourself, that the ground becomes firm underneath you, is you begin drawing very clear, concrete boundaries about not what he wants, but what you are going to do next. Okay. And that's why we hire a good attorney. They're worth their weight in gold because it's literally hiring somebody to fight for you when you can't fight for yourself. Okay. Okay. And so if you want to keep this house, then you have to go to the next layer, which gets a lot of folks in your situation in trouble, which is I'm emotionally attached to this house.

57:32This was my forever home. I don't want to leave, but I can't, I have a math problem. I can't afford to live here. And that's what you have to be brutally honest with yourself about. And then he gets to buy out, write you a humongous check for his part of the – for your part of the equity.

57:53Currently, he is paying for the mortgage and all living expenses while I stay there. And his proposal is that I can stay for up to maybe three years. Let me say this. He doesn't get a proposal. I mean, he can tell his attorney what he proposes. And we are, yes, we're in negotiations right now. But so I'm just trying to figure out what is best for me in this negotiation. In no world am I going to let the guy who just walked out on a 20-year marriage be my landlord. Yeah. No way. How much is the house worth, Susan? Probably about$350 ,000. Okay. And how much do you guys owe on it? On the low end.

58:42240. Okay. And question, with the family, with this being family land, number one, I'm just curious, do you enjoy his family? Do you want to create a life still in that? I would. I would go to a state sale and get a whole bunch of toilets and just line the property line with old toilets. That's what I would do. We bought three acres in the middle of 80. And so they own all of the land around where we are. Okay. Because sometimes when there's a family land deal, there's something written within like, I mean, is there anything that like legally you could take this on, correct? Like you guys? No, there's nothing in writing that we said we would never sell it outside of the family.

59:27There's nothing in writing. That's what worries me a little bit, Susan, is that my only fear, even if the numbers work, and I could be wrong that you stay on this property with his family surrounding you you want to start a new life and then you're like hey I'm I'm just making this up me and this this other guy in five years want to move close over here and now you're stuck and you can't sell that house because I wouldn't want to do that I would rather my son who is I know he's only 17 but But he's dead when he's older. Yeah. I don't want to put him in that either. Okay. Let me say, I'm going to say one more thing and it's caustic what I'm going to say.

1:00:06Okay. Okay. And this is like a hard truth. And if you and I were hanging out, I would wait for about an hour to say this thing, but we only have a few minutes. Okay. Hit me. The life you had is over. Gone. The dreams, the wants, the things that I want to be in the future are now over. They're different now. I hear you say that all the time. So thank you for... I know, but it hits hard. I know. And I don't say it lightly. I'm not trying to be braggadocious. No, it's okay. But trying to think of the way things should have been, where y 'all have this amazing place on this amazing property, and you deed it over to your son, who's then 28, and he's got a young family, all of that, your husband ended it.

1:00:48He set it on fire. And so that dream, that picture you had of coming back to your old house that he now lives, your son now lives in with his young family for Thanksgiving, you have to put that picture that you've painted in the grieve pile.

1:01:08You know what I'm saying? I do. And I hate that for you. And we want to do what's best for Susan. Susan in the next three years and Susan in the next 10 years and 15 years, you know, so it is a, it's a looking so far ahead, which is probably so hard to do right now in the middle of the pain. But I just don't want you to make a bad financial decision that traps you in something that Susan, 10 years from now, can't freely live out. Got it. So then I do have some other options, but I don't know if these are good options either. Okay, let's do it. Yeah, tell us what those are. In, you know, in the divorce, I get half of the 401k.

1:01:52and my financial advisor has told me that I could take that without penalty and put that towards the down payment on a house. Do you have anything else in retirement? I do. I will get about$31 ,000 in a Roth IRA and then I have about$10 ,000 in mutual funds. How much is going to come over in the 401k? All of it. I mean, how much is that? What dollar amount is that? I'm sorry? What dollar amount is half of the 401k? What would that be? No. Oh,$106 ,000. $106 ,000. And then equity, you'll get probably$50 ,000-ish? $50 ,000. Yeah. And how much do you make a year? How much are you working? I am. $45 ,000.

1:02:39You make$45 ,000. Okay. I would not pull out a 401k. I would. You know, Susan, honestly, I would probably just go rent something for a year and settle some of this. And then you can really take your time looking because if you have the ability to put down a great down payment and find a little home and your payment is no more than 25 % of your take-home money, it's all in the parameters of buying a home wisely. I would be great if you did that, but you don't have to do that next week. No, don't do that. Yes, I mean, don't. Don't do it for six to nine months and do it. I would put a lot of this stuff and I would just hold it and wait a year and grieve.

1:03:14And then let's look at options. but I probably would get out of this house if I was you.

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1:05:01Well, over on the debt-free stage, we have Kyle and Sarah from Akron, Ohio. Hey, you guys. Hello. Hi, welcome to the show. Thanks for having us. Well, what an exciting day. So how much debt have you guys paid off? Paid off$150K. Whoa. Oh, my gosh. What did that consist of? That was our house. Oh, my word. Paid off the house, baby steps. Y 'all look like y 'all are 17. How old are y 'all? I'm 33. I'm 37. Oh, my gosh. You have a paid off house at 33? Yeah, we do. Well done. How long did that take you? 47 months. Just shy of four years. 47 months. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, and how much were you guys making during that time?

1:05:41Started right around a 120, upped it to about 145. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay. So what happened? What was it? Four years ago that you thought we're going to pay off our house. We're going to be in our early thirties, mid thirties and have a paid off house. How did that happen? Yeah. So we ended up buying our house in September 2021. And almost immediately, I kind of looked at Sarah and we were like, hey, what would happen if we were able to go ahead and knock this out in less than five years? And yeah, we just started tackling it, just attacking it every single month. And we really looked at it and we said, hey, how do we have more options in our life, have more peace, really just wanted to go ahead and just provide more wiggle room, I would say.

1:06:25Oh my gosh, how much is the house worth? House is worth around$3.30. Okay. Amazing, you guys. That's incredible. How does it feel? It feels absolutely amazing. I mean, just wild. Okay, so what was the journey like? What did you guys do? What were things that you said no to? What were things that maybe you added on? I mean, you were pretty intense. Like, you guys really, really were focused on this. Yeah, we were attacking it pretty heavily. But I would say that one of the first things that we did was just come in more prepared. So when we actually came into the house buying process, we were like, okay, how much can we put down?

1:07:01And we ended up putting down$115K. And again, your principals here at Ramsey helped us do that just to be able to get that within that 25 % mortgage payment that we were looking to try to have. But if you walked in, I want to double click on that amount of discipline that y 'all had as a couple. if you walk in with 115 grand you qualified for a house twice as much as 350 grand yeah on your income they would have given you the world and y 'all said no we think we can find joy and have a great life in this house that we can own outright in five years yeah and it was during the times when the interest rates were super low too so that was kind of advice that we were going back and forth oh yeah also it was really stupid that y 'all paid that off right yeah so So dumb.

1:07:49Dummies, dummies, right? Nobody pays it off with a low interest rate. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so for you guys as a married couple, what does that look like? You know, we're talking about the Money in Marriage event this weekend. How did you work together as a team? Who's like more of the free spirit? Who's more? I'm assuming you're probably more of the nerd, Kyle. Is that true? I am definitely more of the nerd. I felt it. I felt the energy. I have my every dollar budget. We have our spreadsheet that we're looking at on a regular basis. And that gave me a lot of, I would say, momentum and gave us momentum just to be able to see, you know, if you change that number on that spreadsheet, how quickly could we get out of debt?

1:08:26Going from we had a 15 year mortgage and start playing with those numbers and you're able to see, OK, we could get out in 10 years. What could happen if we up it another five hundred dollars, another thousand? Yeah. Hey, we could get done in five years. And the interest you don't pay when you do that. That was the big piece for me. I was going to say, that's what's motivating. Same with me, girl. That's the motivation. Ten years of interest you all get to keep. and spend on whatever you want. I was actually looking at your values here at Ramsey just the other day, and it talks about relentless focus over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable momentum.

1:08:58And I really do think that's been our story is just looking and saying, God, we're praying for abundance here and just seeing those extra paychecks come in or those little bonuses come in and be able to say, hey, we're throwing an extra two grand, three grand at this. And really just having that belief that it's possible at the end of the day. So I think that's been our biggest move. All right. So Sarah, I'm getting some along for the ride energy from you. How did you hang on for four and a half years? No vacations, no new cars. I would say we were not necessarily gazelle intense. Okay. But you should be.

1:09:32So that's good. Towards the house. Good. Good. So y 'all live some life too. We backed off. Kyle would have been. Yeah, he would have been. But he needs you. He needs you to balance him. We were a good balance. Excellent. So we built in incentives along the way. we were able to do some renovations to the house. We had our daughter that took some fertility treatment monies. So there were definitely some celebrations along the way, especially when we hit those big milestones. Do y 'all have a technique or a trick or a hack or whatever you want to call it that y 'all used when Kyle, you got that extra check and you were like, we can get the principal down to this.

1:10:11And you were like, yeah, but I want a human in the house. Like I want a child. How did y 'all come to some sort of consensus? We definitely used the principles of just putting some in different places, a large majority towards the house, of course. But then we have like sinking funds that are set up for the things that are really important to our family. So we know in order which ones we want to fund first with any extra. That's great. I do have to say though, that there was definitely those moments where I had, you know, we had a big chunk of money ready to go towards the house and life happens.

1:10:49And all of a sudden you're like, Hey, we got an extra three grand to put towards the house, but then the car breaks down and it just so happens to cost exactly three grand. Of course. But I guess when we've looked at that, it's always been God providing through that to say, hey, you know what? You thought this money was going this way, but it needs to go this way. That's a good perspective because I always feel like when those things happen, like somehow the Cosmos stole from me, right? Like it was supposed to be this number and now it's not and I feel like I got ripped off somehow or whatever.

1:11:19Instead of looking at it like you did on the other side, thank God I had to. It still hurt. That's amazing. Did you have people in your life that you were telling or did you guys keep it kind of on the down low that you were like, we're going to just kind of do this between us or did you have people cheering you on? Yeah. Yeah. I would say that we were definitely cheering each other around because we just kept having that vision of what would life be like when this payment was gone and what could we do with that money. But again, just letting our parents and our families know, hey, this is what we're doing.

1:11:48We're chasing it down. Did they think you were crazy or were they encouraging? Encouraging. They were. Yeah. My dad was definitely cheering me on and every so often would call and be like, hey, what's the mortgage down to? Oh, what a great dad. That's awesome. What a great dad. Yeah, it was just really powerful just to have people in our corner cheering us on. Yes, absolutely. Incredible, you guys. Well, you did kind of the impossible. I mean, today to say that you can pay off your house is most people would say, no, that's not possible. It's not possible to buy a house. It's not possible to do any of this.

1:12:17And you're living proof that you can. And in your 30s, 33 and 37. How long have you guys been married? Coming up on six years here in April. Okay. And y 'all have done this hard thing together. Y 'all have been through fertility treatments. You've paid off a house together. You can look ahead of you and come what may, you'll know we've been through worse. We can handle this. Yeah. That's really good. That's so awesome. Amazing. You guys. Oh, we all are incredible. Okay. Is the baby here? She's here. She is. She is here. Okay. Are you going to bring her up for the debt-free screen or are you going to hold off?

1:12:45We're going to hold off. We just are nervous if we raise our voices. You know what? That's fair. We've had many tears. Not happy kids on the debt-free stage. You know what? That's probably why. Really happy parents and terrified young kids. Terrified kids. Okay. Well, real quick. what's the one piece of advice you would tell someone who's maybe working out a baby step two and they're thinking okay the house is next what would you tell them i'll go ahead and go first and i'll let sarah share but i really do think it comes down to belief um when i paid off my student loans 45k in in a year paid off my car in a year those are track records that i had that i knew it was possible yeah i just always come back to the quote uh henry ford whether or not you think you can or you can't you're right yes and we just knew that we could i love it so yeah i just think the belief part is so key.

1:13:29So big. Yeah. Yeah. And I just think having a unified mission, definitely that's our big thing in marriage is being unified. Um, but with this too, like it might've been Kyle's big dream to, to come here and do all of this. Um, but then I, I latched onto that too, because we need to be unified in all of our, our visions and then just consistency and being able to track what we're doing and staying on top of it that way. We have weekly, weekly kind of marriage meetings and finance meetings. And so it's good to stay on track. Dude, y 'all should teach the Money Marriage Retreat this week. I know.

1:13:59Y 'all can come on stage. We're so excited. We'll see you guys there. I'm so glad. All right, you guys. Well, we have Kyle and Sarah from Akron, Ohio, making or paid off$150 ,000, which was their house, making$120 ,000 to$145 ,000. They did it in four years. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear your big debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free!

1:14:28Thank you.

1:14:56to know. Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance. Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer and they've been absolutely great. We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show.

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1:16:24We wish we could get to every call that calls in because usually some people leave voicemails and we can try to call them back and get them on the show. And then sometimes we can't. So if you have a money question and you want an answer to your specific situation, head to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So this is our new free AI tool that was built and trained on money proven principles. So we have taken the money principles here at Ramsey and gone through it all and said, okay, here's how we would answer this question. And so it really is amazing. You can ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com, or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts, you can click the link in the description.

1:17:07All right, let's head to Houston, and we have Chris on the line. H-Town. What's up, Chris? Hi, Chris. Hello. Hello. Thank you for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help today? Well, I have a dilemma or trilemma. I don't know how to call it, but I'm a big car enthusiast, and I really want to find a fun sedan. We have two SUVs, fully functional. We don't need another car, but I want to. And I just want to hear your opinion. If it's the time to buy something like that, or I should still wait or not buy at all. I don't know what would be the answer from your side. Well, number one, I just want to shout you out, dude.

1:17:45The fact that you called and said, I don't need this. I want it. Already, like, puts you in a different category of person that usually calls us. Usually people are calling us and trying to explain why they need this thing so bad. So shout out to you for just keeping it real, dude. That's awesome. Okay. So, Chris, what's your financial situation? Do you have consumer debt? No. We only have a mortgage,$200 ,000. $200 ,000. How much do you guys make a year? about 170 80 depends on the bonuses and stuff like that 178 is that what you said 170 180k per year 180k okay and um what do you have saved how much money do you have that you would spend on this car well uh i checked the the net or the assets every quarter and in january we were close to 800 000 for everything like retirement accounts Oh, retirement.

1:18:43Okay. Savings, the equity in the house. So everything total came to about a little bit less than$800. We have$45 in cash, and another$17 in this, what's it called, like investment account, that is taxable account. Okay. Is the$45 in cash, is that all you have? Does that include an emergency fund too? Is that what you would use in case of an emergency, or do you have another fund for that? Well, the taxable account is also accessible as emergency or something like that. But yeah, that's the cash. It's money market,$34 ,000. It's all emergency and kind of slash funds. So I don't break them by$1 ,000 or three to six months.

1:19:33It just stays there. We're not touching it. Okay. How much from the lifestyle that you guys live, how much do you spend a month on your life, including mortgage and everything? How much do you think it is? Food, bills, all of it. Oh, they all work very well. It's about$6 ,000,$7 ,000 a month. Okay. And do you guys, do you all have kids? Three, yes. You have three, okay. Okay, perfect. Well, so you have that$45 ,000 and that$17 ,000. So I would probably want a six-month... $17 ,000, not$17 ,000,$70 ,000. Oh,$70 ,000. Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay, okay. So 110 in 20 depends on the day. Okay. I got you.

1:20:14I got you. Okay. All right. So, and you guys are consistently investing in retirement over 800 ,000. You said with equity in the home and retirement and everything else. Yes. Yes. We put about 20 % in retirement. Okay. How much do you want to spend on the car? Well, it's about 30,$35 ,000. Okay. What kind of car is it?

1:20:40BMW M550i sedan. We have two SUVs, and I'm growing the desire for a fast sedan. Yeah, what does your wife think? Well, she's not saying no. But then I have this guilty side on me. I keep everybody on the budget, and now I need to splurge for myself. So that's another kind of factor in the decision-making. I feel very bad that I'm keeping on the budget all of us and now suddenly I'll splurge on something that I don't think. We call that a midlife crisis, but we all have them, so that's okay. Probably, yes. Here's what I would like, the money side of it. Here's what I would like you to consider on the relationship side of it.

1:21:22What if you took your wife, how old are your kids, by the way? Almost eight, six, and four. Okay. So what if you took your wife out and y 'all spent a half day together that you planned and y 'all dreamed about, hey, we almost have a million dollars net worth. We have three amazing kids. Our marriage is good. Like, what do we want our house to look like? What are some dreams that we have? And give her an opportunity to put some things on the table that she might want, might dream about, things that she would love to see. and experience, and then y 'all come up with some ways to fund everybody's vision?

1:22:07You get what I'm saying? I do, and we kind of have a quarterly business date where we talk about that. We go to a nice restaurant, and I give a report. Oh, good. What's changed? Here we are. What are we doing? What are we going to do next? What do you take? What should be focused on? So, Chris, is there anything? Yeah, that's great. But that's a business report. I want you to do a dreaming report. uh-huh okay yeah is there anything in the future that you guys are you wanting to upgrade the house any renovations college trip yeah is there is there anything looming at all that this money could be used for or are you guys kind of in a holding pattern right now you're like we're kind of good we're just invested in retirement kids college the kids are little and we're just stacking cash because we we have margin nothing nothing depends on those money like we bought we go to Europe every year.

1:22:54I'm from Southeastern Europe. So we spend like $6 ,000 in tickets and we can afford it without going to savings. Yeah, you can just cash flow it. Sure. This doesn't depend on that kind of thing. So we have the plan for that. We've done it already. Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, if I'm you, I'm looking at these numbers and I'm thinking, okay, that's$70 ,000 that's in that one account. $35 ,000 of it is emergency fund. $35 ,000 would be car. So I'm basically that account to me is non-existent anymore because I'm not even going to think about the emergency fund. I'm not calculating that. It's just going to be over here in case of an emergency, which means we have$45 ,000 in the other account.

1:23:31If something comes up that, again, we're not going to touch the emergency fund for, but if you needed a big purchase, that's where I would go would be that$45 ,000 fund. So I mean, I think so. There's no big red flag right now for me. No, I mean, I think you guys are doing great. I think as long as you're consistently investing, You're living below your means. You have the cash for it with, you know, an extra$75 ,000 cushion, including the emergency fund after the purchase of this car. I would be okay with it. The only, and financially, of course, I, your wife, I, yeah, I, I want you. And again, I, my biases, people only call me when things aren't going well in their marriages.

1:24:15Right. So I don't want to put, I don't want to put my bias on you. Okay. but I do want you to ask yourself the question and it might be you taking yourself out for a half day and doing some journaling some writing out some dreaming on your own but do you want to get this car because you love you like you said you love you're a car enthusiast you got a gang of guys you want to drive around with you just want to go cruising in Houston that's where I grew up there's I mean there's hundreds of miles of highways to drive if like is that what I want to do or do I have an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, a four-year-old, I've got a routine, and I'm just finding myself getting bored?

1:24:53More the motivation of the purchase. Because if that's the case, you're going to spend$35 ,000, you're going to be bored on this one, and then you're immediately going to start looking for the next one, and then the next one. And so I would rather you deal with the, am I co-creating a life with my wife where there is excitement and aliveness and eroticism and fun and responsibility? Are we doing that stuff together? Or am I trying to escape? Or am I trying to escape? And this becomes a really, really expensive, you know, like social media app. Just a way to numb out the fact that I kind of am starting to feel kind of bored.

1:25:29I see. You know what I'm saying? Very good advice. Thank you. Very well, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So from the financial side, Chris, I think you guys have enough margin. I think you're fine. If$35 left today. I think you$35 ,000 left today. I think you, I think you guys would be fine. I really do. But John's insight is probably what I would put some of the focus on. So even saying no to this purchase might be a better decision for you, just for you. But if you're comfortable with the answers that you get when you, when you ask yourself those questions, then get that car and cruise the streets, baby. It's a green light.

1:26:23Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And you can give us a call at 888-825-5225. Okay, we're heading to Cleveland, Ohio. to talk to Elizabeth. Hi, Elizabeth. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. You're so welcome. How can we help today? Well, I'm looking for guidance on how to wisely handle my elderly mother's finances without enabling a lifetime pattern of debt. Oh, this is a tough one. So what's the current situation? Yeah. Yeah. My mother is 83. She's single and lives alone in a rural community in another state.

1:27:09Her only income is Social Security of about$1 ,400 a month, and she has no savings. For decades, she cycled between being rescued financially and accumulating $40 ,000 in debt. And it seems as though that she has a spending addiction and she makes desperate financial decisions and never followed a budget. So right now, she owns her home outright with low property taxes, less than$1 ,000 a year, and the house is set up for aging in place. Our hope is that she can live there, live out her years there. It's far cheaper than renting, and she also has an older, reliable car. So the situation now is she's currently in debt of$40 ,000.

1:27:56Again, it's$32 ,000 in a HELOC and$8 ,000 in credit card debt. Then she took out various life insurance policies to cover her debt because those television ads during the day geared towards her demographic. On cable news. They're predatory. Pardon? They're predatory. Yeah, they prey on exactly people in her situation, lonely, by themselves, isolated, and they scare them to death, and then they sell them a solution to their fear. Right. So now she's paying$40 ,000 or now she's got$40 ,000 in debt, paying interest, making minimum payments and paying for those life insurance policies. Okay. Hold on.

1:28:42Hold on. I want to cut to the reality. Yes. Has she come to you and said, I have a problem. Will you help? Yes. Okay. Awesome. So two weeks ago, she came to me and asked if I could give her$500 to help with some expenses. And I said no. She then made arrangements to make some late payments to creditors. And we think that she's going to be in dire straits in about a month. So my husband and I have an idea that we're considering paying off her debt, taking control of her Social Security income, putting her on a strict budget, trimming her expenses, getting as much assistance as possible, paying her bills directly, and giving her a small weekly allowance.

1:29:27but currently her expenses are more than her social security so she might not get an allowance we would like to inherit the house it's in a lake community but the big concern is how do we prevent her from opening new credit doing a reverse mortgage or creating another mess instead of her living within her means with food and shelter so our question is is paying off my mother's debt and taking over her finances wise, or is there a better way to address the issue? I mean, if she would agree to that and also agree to signing over financial control to you guys, make you like financial power of attorney and also freeze her credit so she can't take out any loans and no one can take out loans against, you know what I mean?

1:30:18If she agreed and you had the code, right? You had to log in to unfreeze her credit. I mean, that sounds like a good solution. I don't think it's a good solution to, I don't like the word allowance because I think she's going to balk at that. Okay. Because then she's going to feel like suddenly she's your middle school child. And that's a hard psychological shift for somebody. But if you, and also we want her to have a good quality of life right like i want to have some money to go do some stuff and whatever but there is like you said there's a financial reality so if she would agree to all that i could see that being a great solution yeah i mean i may be debbie downer in it in the sense that like when you know an 83 year old i don't know how much change is going to occur in her to figure out yeah there will be no yeah that's a great there'll be no like psychological awakening here agree right There's no learning.

1:31:17So it's more just keeping, honestly, it's more just keeping peace with her and her latter part of her life. Right. Keeping the lights on and helping her stay afloat. I mean, it's basically what you guys are doing. You're helping her survive. Yes. Yeah. But I'll also say if I think this again, this is my personal take that the main driver underneath a lot of this pathology and aging populations is loneliness. and so if there was some sort of you have to get involved you have to do some things with the local community groups you have to do some stuff because that has a way of yeah that will keep her alive longer that will give her more reason to wake up every day and and all you get what i'm saying yeah absolutely you have siblings elizabeth no i'm an only child okay okay and in the sandwich generation of taking care of our own family.

1:32:13And yeah. Yes. And are you guys in a financial spot to do this? Yeah, I think so. For that amount, you know, as a gift, if we were to cover roughly 40 ,000, we wouldn't want to do it again. Right. Right. Totally. But you guys have the cash, like you wouldn't be putting yourselves in a bad position in order to do that? Well, we, no, um, my husband recently retired, so he's got access to, um, retirement money and how much you guys have worth. We have a net worth of 2 million. Okay. And what's he say? What does your husband say about all of it? Um, he would like to help out. Oh, sweet. That's cool.

1:32:54Is there a possibility and there's going to be tax implications in this. So sitting down with a good tax pro or tax attorney would be helpful here. Um, is there a possibility that y 'all buy the house? and put it in your name that way nobody else can take a lien out on it nobody she can't take out another heloc somehow or or you know i'm saying we consider that we also have a daughter in high school and we're about to start funding college and we don't want to have more assets not until yeah until it's turned over yeah that makes sense so yes i mean if she is if she's willing to do all of that, Elizabeth?

1:33:31I think that that's, I mean, at this point, I think that's smart. I mean, I think, you know, you taking over and her, I mean, her, cause it's her literally reaching out to you and saying, I can't do this anymore because I obviously cannot be trusted to make smart decisions and I need someone to step in. And she's 83. How's her health? Yeah. Is her health, um, is she in diabetes so that's chronic but other than that and it's controlled um i'm guessing she'll be with us for at least 10 plus years okay yeah who knows i i if she agrees to all of your things which i would i would just given my experience put that as a big maybe yeah if she does you have to steal yourself for she will say mean things to you she'll call you crying she'll be upset with you very similar to how a teenager would be with some pretty significant boundaries.

1:34:30And you and your husband are going to have to know part of this is not just going to be holding the line financially, but we're going to have to have the emotional fortitude to deal with a mom that suddenly turns on us, even though we're trying to help, because I think that will come with this territory here.

1:35:10Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:36:00If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. And this is more than just our budgeting app. It is now the plan that is built right in. So you can track your progress. You can get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. So it's like having us walk with you every single day through your money journey. So start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's go to Alex in Idaho. Hi, Alex. Alex, are you there? Yeah. Hey. Can you hear me?

1:36:40Yeah. Welcome to the show. Good. Good. So my question is, I know Dave teaches to put 15 % of your income into retirement. Is there ever an appropriate time to stop making those contributions before retirement? Possibly. I mean, investing is really part of the whole financial picture that you're looking at for your future and different generations beyond. How much do you have right now in retirement? I have$850 ,000 in my retirement. I'm 50 years old. I plan to work for at least the next 10 years. This last year, I did$20 ,000 in contributions, and my 401k grew by$100 ,000. And so I just, when I put my figures into an investment calculator, it says in the next 10 years, with no additional contributions, I'll be at$2.3 million.

1:37:55And with$20 ,000 in contributions in 10 years, I'd be at$2.6 million. So would it be, I mean, it's a$300 ,000 difference. but should I start taking more elaborate vacations now rather than wait? How much do you make a year? My wife and my combined income is about$215 ,000. $215 ,000, okay. Yeah, and so, yeah, you put$20 ,000 in as your 15 %? Yeah, well, and that's just my side of it. She's got a pension plan she puts into. That she's going to be okay. Well, for me, I think it's more than just the numbers to me. Part of it is the numbers, and then part of it, too, is looking at your whole financial picture and is it balanced, meaning we always want to be giving, we always want to be saving, and we want to be spending and enjoy.

1:38:58So my question to you, is that$20 ,000 that big of a swing for you guys lifestyle-wise? Well, I'm not sure. Sure. I mean, I feel like we've got a pretty good lifestyle right now. We go on vacation and we have fun and things. But again, yeah,$20 ,000, we could do a lot more fun stuff. Sure. Well, and I guess I would ask you to expand your time horizon. Because you're talking about compound growth over a decade. But imagine yourself at 80, if you live for, what, three more decades. That gap is going to be significantly bigger.

1:39:48Do you get what I'm saying? I do. Yeah. And so, again, I don't have a calculator in front of me, but you say like if I go out 10 years, one is 2.3 and one is 2.6. If you go out another 10 years, is it going to be 2.6 or is it going to be four and then it's going to be 6 million, right? It begins to compound pretty significantly the longer you go out. Right. Right. And so, and I'm kind of with Rachel, I don't get the depth of your question, because if you're making$250K a year, y 'all are bringing home a chunk of change. And so, $1 ,800 a month into retirement doesn't seem like that will impact your monthly anything at all.

1:40:38Is your house paid off, Alex? It is. It is. Okay. Good for you guys. I mean, listen, you're an adult. I think you guys can run the numbers and decide for yourself which one. I just, part of the baby steps and what continues on, like Winston and I, we have enough. We're fine if we stopped. But we're not stopping. It is still this continual pattern for us because there is something about the giving, the saving, the spending, all of it that creates something in all of us. It does something for us. And yeah, I don't know. And it's$800 ,000, which I get in seven years. It doubles. I know all of that, but there is something about just having some cushion there.

1:41:18And I'm not a big scarcity mentality person, but again, it's not like you have 8 million and we're like, oh yeah, you're fine. There's, I don't know, there's still life to be lived and you guys, I just don't want you to ever touch that principle to be able to live off the interest. And so for me, I would continue investing, but you guys can decide. All right, let's go to Darian in Colorado Springs. Hi, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So we have two houses, one that purchased in 2020, one we purchased in 2023 when we got married. We've been renting out the townhouse that we purchased in 23.

1:41:55And we bought it and it was on the very high end of our budget. And we used rental end to come to qualify. But we are now trying to sell it. And when we did have it rented out, we rented it for$2 ,000 with the HOA and everything. We were losing like$850 a month. Oh, gosh. Well, that's not a good investment. No, it was not. So now we're trying to sell it, and we bought it for$350. We still owe$322. And comps in the area show we should be able to sell it around$325, which is not great because after fees and title fees and everything in realtors, our realtor said that we'd probably end up bringing$30 ,000 to the table to sell this house, which is wild.

1:42:40We looked at a cash offer for it, and it's$285. So we'd be 40 ,000 under that way. So I haven't listed again trying to rent it, but it doesn't have air conditioning. Why doesn't it have air conditioning? Good question. Every other house in this townhouse complex has air conditioning except for ours. Because you're Colorado Springs, I guess, and it's just... Yes. Yeah, but it's been hot there the last few summers. It has. I'm not sure how we got away with this or purchased it with it, you know, without it. Definitely no oversight. But we were newly married and excited to buy a house. So we did.

1:43:25And we went overboard. So what's your question? We've also looked at, I guess, you know, doing like a going into foreclosure or doing a lien in new foreclosure. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Yeah. No. That'll trash us whole financial picture. Yeah, no, I wouldn't. I mean, I hate to say it, but it's almost like getting a$30 ,000 loan and calling it stupid tax, which is a lot. But, you know, when you make, I mean, my hope would be that you could sell it. Are you guys, I guess you have the two mortgages. How much is the mortgage? The mortgage on that one is$2 ,600. And are y 'all able to cash flow that right now with your current income?

1:44:13Not well, because we also have that second mortgage. And we have somebody living in our current house, so they're paying a little bit. But we're also kind of trying to bless them, so we're not charging them what we should be for this. Wait, do you have a renter in the property right now? No, in our other house that we are currently living in, in our primary, the one that I bought in 2020. You have a renter in that with you guys? We have, yeah. We have friends that are living with us that are renting. Okay. That's a messy, complex situation, brother. Could you sell your current residence and go back and move into your townhome for a season?

1:44:52With no air conditioning. I mean, we could. We were paying a little less at the four-bedroom, which is wild. So the townhouse is 1 ,400 square feet. The other one has like 2 ,200 square feet. So it is quite a bit bigger. I get that. I guess hear me say, at some point, you're going to have to make some sacrifices. Yeah. I mean, I'd put it on the market, and I would try—and I would sell it. And then if you guys have a$30 ,000 crap mistake, you know, loan up there that you're like, that is just—that was our stupid tax. That's better than sitting there and paying$2 ,600 every single month for the foreseeable future, right?

1:45:31So, yep. I mean, I would sell it ASAP. I would not go down the foreclosure route.

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1:46:42Over on the debt-free stage, we have Brandon and Taryn from Fresno, California. Welcome, you guys. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Well, congratulations. Thank you. For being debt-free. How much debt did you guys pay off? $291 ,000. Oh, my gosh. And what did that consist of? Our house. Yes. Yes, dude. Another house payoff. Oh, my gosh. Okay, how long did it take you? About four years and three months. Four years. And making what kind of income during that time? From$100 to$200. Whoa, what was the jump? Side jobs got busier. Sounds like it. I mean,$100 ,000 in side jobs. Not bad. What do you guys do?

1:47:22Doggy daycare. Yeah, that was one of the side. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, tell us. What do you guys do for a living? And then what were some of the side hustles? I'm in medical appeals. Okay. So she works from home. I do apartment maintenance. Yeah. And then for side work, I carry on with that. So if someone has like a dishwasher that needs work or plumbing, electrical, whatever, I just go there, do stuff. And then they tell other people and they just keep talking and telling other people. Yes. The references are real, right? When people talk about it. The references are real. That's like a t-shirt.

1:47:54I think so. Absolutely. When they were like, listen, Brandon's the best. And everyone's like, well, let me use Brandon. Oh, how do you do medical appeals, like, on behalf of patients? Yeah, I don't make the decisions. I just build cases. On behalf of humanity, can I say thank you for fighting the good fight? A lot. You see a lot of stuff, that's for sure. I bet. Okay, so what happened four years ago that you guys thought we want to pay off almost$300 ,000 and pay off our house? Well, it started in 2019 when we were gifted the FPU class. Yeah. And so we paid off all of our consumer debt. It was$47K then.

1:48:31It was the credit card for the wedding. It was student loans, and that was her car. So after that, then we had the funds to go towards saving for emergency funds, saving for a house, which we only put$9 ,000 down. But we knew that the ability that we had was so much greater, so we just started smacking the house. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing, you guys. Okay, so what was that journey like for four years? Your focus on it. It was fun. It was honestly a lot of fun. And we learned a lot about ourselves. And we got it as a wedding gift, actually, FPU. And we kind of, honestly, at first, we kind of rolled our eyes.

1:49:08We're like, yeah, we already kind of know about money a little bit or whatever. And so we're like, well, she got it for us. Let's go to the class. And we left and we're like, I don't know crap. And it just changed our lives. And we learned a lot about ourselves and each other. And it definitely changed our lives for the best. And it made our marriage even stronger. Was that year one of marriage in 2019 when you guys, okay. So man, you guys, that's amazing. Starting off your marriage, changing the way you view money. Yeah. Pay off all the consumer debt. You do the emergency fund, all of it. And then you look up and you're like, all right, now it's time to tackle the house.

1:49:42And you did it in four years. So you guys seem very organized. Did you map out and see, okay, how long is it going to take us? And did you do it faster than what you originally thought? Oh yeah. Yeah. He's the nerd. He had the spreadsheet. And I was like, okay. We use every dollar. Yes. But I also did Excel and I would do all kinds of formulas showing like what we originally had for interest, PMI, all of that. It was like 800 and something a month that we were just losing in the house. I'm like, all right, well, every month when I plug in what the current balance is, it shows lower amounts. And so I'm like, oh, like we're saving this much from when we started.

1:50:18And the number just got smaller and smaller each month. And then we're like, let's just keep going, just knock it out. Then we'll move on from there. Yes. Oh my gosh, you guys. Okay, that's a lot of side hustles. That means for the last four years, you've been busy. So I only did the after hours work for people. She also did Rover and then a ton of people word of mouth as well. Yeah. Yeah, the dog sitting is what you're saying, right? So you're like fighting insurance companies and petting dogs? Yeah. Pretty much. You married a saint, homie. That's awesome. I did. And was it a pretty good side hustle?

1:50:52So we do hear people doing this. And I feel like it's like, it pays well. It started off as obviously just paying off debt. And we paid off our debt. And I'm like, I'm not going to stop doing this. It's just second nature to me at this point. The first year was$600 for over. Yeah. And it just went up, up, up. Kept going crazy. Yeah. Man, you guys are awesome. Well done. Did you guys have people that were cheering you on or on the other end making fun of you of what you guys are doing with all your working extra and everything? Yes. Were people like, y 'all are crazy? Both. Kind of both. Kind of both.

1:51:22I think the amount of dogs we would have during holidays, they're like, y 'all are psycho. It's like, yeah, we kind of are, but it's worth it. But our families were super supportive. We had friends that were super supportive. Like they'd bring it up in conversations like, okay, so where are you? And it's like, oh God, I don't even know. I need to bring up the spreadsheet. So we had an awesome, awesome support group. Okay. Sometimes people do their debt-free scream and they actually hit the last payment a few months ago. Have y 'all had it where you both got your direct deposits in your accounts?

1:51:52And you have no house payment? Yeah. Tell everybody what that feels like. Well, you had the problem of debt before, but your new problem is now you have to think, what do I do with this money? Or like, what savings are we going to put it in? That sounds like such an insane thing for most people listening to this. Like, I have all this money. What do I do with it? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. What are your next goals? Have you guys kind of dreamed about the future and been like, here's what we want to do? Yeah, well, so we're in California now, and now that we have a paid-off house for saving, we actually want to move to Tennessee.

1:52:25So maybe like Crossville to Knoxville area. Come on, dude. That's a beautiful part of the country. And with my background, we want to build a big barn doe on some land. So fun. At the speed of cash. That's a fun dream, though. Yeah. Good for you guys. What's this house worth that you paid off? Right now, like$420. Awesome. Yeah, so great, you guys. So if there's someone listening and they think there's no way I could pay off my house, I got a 30 year mortgage. It'll be in 30 years. It just is what it is. What would you tell them the secret to paying off your houses? If you're married, be a team and that will get you through.

1:53:01And trust God. There were so many times that like we're both very just like keep your head down and work and work, work. And then you just kind of look up and we're like, I don't understand where all this money came from. but God was good the entire time and he carried us through and we wouldn't have made it through without him. So be a team and trust God. Yeah. And be faithful and keep tithing. God, God has his rules and he doesn't stop. Don't stop believing in him. Yes. Continue it on. Oh, I love it. You guys. Okay. Are y 'all going to chill on the side hustles a little bit? I don't, do you have a paid off house?

1:53:30I mean, we don't know what that means. He's going to buy some property in Crossfield. I mean, we just went to Costa Rica. We got back two weeks ago we got a little tan so yeah and uh yeah we'll slow down a little she's got a baby going yeah working on the way so congratulations first one okay oh you guys what a beautiful way you're gonna bring this kid into the world with no financial stress it's amazing that's the goal i told him i think the biggest gift is that we're bringing her home to a paid off house and that's like crazy it's emotional just okay i'll go one deeper you're bringing her to a house where two parents love each other and trust each other and have accomplished hard things together.

1:54:12Yeah. And the greatest gift we can give our kids is to love our spouse well. Yeah. And like a byproduct of that is y 'all paid off your house. But dude, this kid won the lottery and not, not because of the money y 'all make, but because they've got two hardworking parents that love each other and know how to do hard stuff. That's, that's incredible. It's wild. That's so cool, man. So beautiful. Is it different than how you guys grew up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very. It was growing up for me, I would say it was, there were financial problems. I didn't know about them as a kid, but then I felt it like you felt the tension and they would say, you know, don't worry about it.

1:54:46But then like growing up and now kind of helping my parents in those ways, I'm like, oh man. So it's, it's crazy. And that's the beautiful part of the changing your family tree aspect of this, right? Which I feel like is such a bigger why in all of this money stuff that we talk about, you know, yes, we want peace in the present and not having all these payments gives you that. Yeah. But then there's something even greater of what you continue on in your family. So you guys, congratulations. Thank you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Incredible. Let's let it rip. We got Brandon and Taryn from Fresno, California.

1:55:18They paid off two hundred and ninety one thousand dollars, which was the house in four years, making a hundred to two hundred grand a year. And mostly side hustle. So lots of dogs, lots of dogs. All right, you guys count it down. Let's hear a big debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

1:55:42So great. That's amazing. The house payoff stuff, like that is, that's just wild. Wild. Anytime somebody, a young couple like this in a place like California goes through hell for four years to pay off their house, they're like that kid in math class in middle school when you're like, nobody can get an A on this. And that kid's like, I'm going to study so hard. I'll get an A. I'm going to do it. They show everybody that yes, you can. Amazing. Congratulations. You guys are proud of you. Brandon and Taryn from Fresno. Well done.

1:56:31Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster.

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1:57:37Our scripture of the day comes from Psalms 145, 16 and 17. You open your hands. You satisfy the desire of every living thing. The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. Frank Zappa said, your mind is like a parachute. If it isn't open, it doesn't work. Yes, that's good. Well done. Open the mind. learn and jump out of a plane and jump out of a parachute. All right, let's go to Newark, New Jersey. And we have Elizabeth on the line. Hi, Elizabeth. Hi. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today? So I guess I kind of have two questions for you guys. One question would be, how do I get over anger and resentment towards my husband that has just kind of built up and now it's just coming to a head because he's had life changes.

1:58:36And then the second question is, how do I express to him, I'm scared he is going to put us in debt without him getting defensive? oh you're asking impossible questions that's the marriage there yeah to take the lead okay so tell me what tell me why you're angry well i since since i got pregnant um back in 2016 my husband and i only knew each other for about six months we got pregnant and we both just decided you know we're going to do this thing i became a stay-at-home mom he He was just kind of doing his own thing. He's a handyman, works construction. He was picking up jobs here and there, but he needed insurance.

1:59:27And I had a child and put the child on my insurance. So then once he found like a big boy job, like a corporate job, a good job, we went on his insurance. And I completely like everything went from me to his responsibility. So he got his shit together, so to speak. And now he left that job and is kind of doing our side, his side hustle, which is technically our side hustle because I have no job still eight years later. but I feel like he's going backwards because he finally has freedom again if that makes sense and the resentment is just coming from him picking and choosing when he wanted to help me at home for a stay-at-home mom for instance like the house is like I've been burnt out so the house isn't up to par like the laundry's not done the dishes aren't done like nothing is getting done in the house because I'm tired.

2:00:37They said, is everything okay? Instead of just helping and doing it, he's like, what's going on? Yeah. I mean, if I'm fully honest with you, y 'all have deeper issues than I can handle and address on this call. Okay. And here's why. Y 'all have found yourself at a place in your marriage where it is you versus him, and he is standing there with his hands out, either A, choosing to not help you in any way, shape, form, or fashion, or he doesn't know how to love you in a way that you can feel loved. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, but hold on. But that gap between the two of you, because here's what I would tell you.

2:01:28if you have been very clear with him and again what i'm telling you sucks it's the worst because it sounds like i'm giving you another thing to do i get that but often i hear i sit with men all over the country who are like i'm trying to love well and i don't i everything i do is wrong and i don't know what to do next and to to their like i don't credit them this is a fault but they just stop doing anything. And what I would challenge you to do is to give him a path. Here's what a way, here's ways you can love me right now. Okay. And that sounds ridiculous. I shouldn't have to tell him. He should just know you're all those things can be true, but the reality is where you find yourself right now is he doesn't.

2:02:17And if you're not doing everything you can on a day in and day out basis to see each other, to know each other, to celebrate each other, then everything is a battlefield. Yeah. And that's where we are. Okay. So somebody has to, you've heard me say this on the show before, somebody has to turn the lights off. I mean, turn the lights on, turn the music off this, this dance y 'all are doing. And somebody has to say, we're married. We're not in a good place right now. I still want to be married to you, but we got to rebuild this marriage from the floor up. are you in? And if he says yes, then you have to be willing to say, okay, here's what that would look like right now.

2:02:56And he has to say, here's what that would look like right now. And y 'all both have to get after it. And so, but you got to go, you got to go see a professional at this point in your, in your marriage because the resentment's simmering. It's too hot. Yeah. Elizabeth, I hope that helps. And again, I hate that we can't, you know, unfold and have a solution right now, but honestly sitting down with someone, a third party, and it's gonna be a lot of work for you guys, but it's possible. All right, let's go to Toby in Chicago. Hi, Toby. Welcome to the show. Hello, how are we? Hi, doing great. How can we help?

2:03:27Yes, I am getting ready to get a settlement for roughly three and a half million dollars for my employer at work. Oh, what happened? Two and a half million? What happened? uh well my uh my boss uh pretty much threatened to uh whoop my butt and fire me and then they uh retaliated against me and kept me from getting a promotional job by hiring people who weren't you have to have you have to have a certain license to to have that job and they kept hiring people that didn't have that qualification so you sued them in civil court and you won two and half million dollars well i went through the eoc and then the eoc gave me a declaration to sue and then i hired an attorney and we settled okay where are you at financial right now toby do you have consumer debt uh what uh the only only debt i have is my mortgage and that's 108 000 108 000 all right well i know how to spend 108 000 of the 2.5 so it gets you down to 2.4 um okay uh three three point five three point five million three point five oh my goodness okay well when it comes to yeah i mean a large chunk of money whether it's inheritance a settlement anything like that we always say to remember the three buckets of money and this is really important because it can you can easily do one or two of these but all three are really crucial And that's to give some, to save some, and to spend some.

2:05:01And honestly, on the spend side, I would hold off any major purchase. No major purchase, no cars, no jet skis, no nothing for like six or nine months. Yeah, I would say for probably six months just for you guys to emotionally take all this in and just kind of know where you're at. If you can practice not significantly changing your lifestyle, like in a crazy way, you know, you can go on a great vacation and maybe, you know, upgrade the cars and all of it. But this is this is almost like lottery type money that people win. You know, they'll win like a, you know, a Powerball here or there, whatever it is.

2:05:34And they end up going broke. Right. Or you talk to professional athletes and they get a signing bonus. And then three years later, they're broke because they they end up spending all of it. So, Toby, the biggest thing is going to be to be really disciplined and to have a detailed plan. And I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and map out for you guys, hey, what could a future look like for us where we can enjoy some of this? Absolutely. But also, where can we put this long term that can change us, our kids, our family tree completely? Because how old are you guys? um i am 33 years old and my my girlfriend um she is 28 all right we got a girl in the picture both of us are both of us are pretty much debt-free okay is she the is she the one oh yeah yeah we'll be uh she uh she just finished we had an agreement that we were going to get married after she finished her college.

2:06:33She just finished her master's degree. Okay. All right. So your first$3 ,000 is buying a ring. Or if you're Rachel, your first$50 ,000 is buying a ring. I was going to say at least five, John, of the three point something. Well, and I already have, I already have a ring bought, but I was, that was one of the first things I thought was getting something a little bit nicer. I love that. Yes, Toby, absolutely. And you know what? You guys need to sit down. I sit down and have some great premarital counseling because you guys are walking into wealth. I mean, in this whole. And it 100 % will change your relationship.

2:07:04Yes. And you don't know how to handle it all right now because you haven't done it before. So remember, discipline, practice, get a team around you to walk with you, people that you trust deeply. Well, that's it for the show. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.