Wisdom Starts Where Debt Ends

21:43If you filed an extension for your 2025 taxes, the October 15 deadline will be here before you know it. And if your taxes are pretty simple, you can use the Ramsey Smart Tax to finish filing before it's too late. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable, keeps filing simple. It's got built-in support in case you get stuck and need help. And October 15th is your last chance to file and get that tax stress off your shoulders. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash Smart Tax and start filing now. And if you filed an extension, your tax situation is maybe a little more complicated or you feel overwhelmed, get a pro in your corner before October 15th.

22:16That way you're not battling the IRS on your own. You can make a game plan for your unique situation or business. And if you want to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by our team, go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. You can also get free checklists and guides that will help you file at RamseySolutions.com slash tax resources. And we will link all three of those down in the description of this episode. Tony is in West Palm Beach up next. Tony, welcome to the show. Good afternoon. How are you guys doing? We're doing well. How can we help? So in February, I paid off my house.

22:50Awesome.

22:56And definitely, you know, it was a big accomplishment. But I just feel like I thought it'd be more freedom than I have. How much did you pay off and how quickly? I paid off, it was$110 ,000 in about two and a half, three years, closer to three years. Wow, way to go. Good for you. Why did you do that? Actually, I listened to you guys about five years ago. I started listening to you guys. And that was my start journey of like, I got to get this together. and um i mean i was um i bought my house back in during 09 so my payment was never really that high um and so i just kept you know once i heard you guys i started putting more money toward it i had a piece of property i bought when i was like 20 years old and i used that also toward it to pay off my house.

24:07You sold that property? Yeah, I sold it. And just trying to pay off all the first, like you guys didn't say, pay off like the smalls bill and work your way. And once I got those first ones out of the way, I really started trying to put as much as I could toward the house. I was also with that property. I had thought about using it as investment down the line, but I said, what's the best investment in my house if I can have that paid off? you know that's a big step but um the house has paid off and um i'm trying to invest um i feel like i'm very i'm 43 years old and i'm a little late i have a pension at my job but i'm kind of late as far as like investing you know like a 457 i have an ira outside of work but I just feel like I'm calm down like when you hear people say oh I have 300 ,000 I have this much I have like 60 ,000 in uh between all my accounts so I get nervous thinking I'm 43 you know well have enough time investing I have three daughters one in high school one in middle school and one elementary school and it's like um you know I haven't put any money really yet toward college.

25:24So I started getting like, you know, a little worried about. So you're just overwhelmed in general because you thought paying off the house would somehow solve all of the other problems. It would solve retirement. It would solve college funding. It would give you purpose. But all it did was it gave you freedom and peace and some extra margin. And so that's a step toward it, but it's not the whole picture. And so it's okay. What you're feeling is normal. Um, and you're not behind. I know it feels like it because someone else has more than you, but man, the good news is it's not a race where there's one million people running.

25:59It's just Tony's race. Gotcha. And there's going to be times where it's slow, and there's going to be times where it's fast. There's going to be seasons where it's crazy because you're cash flowing in college, and there's going to be seasons where you wish you had something to save for. Gotcha. Are you married? Yes. Okay.

26:15Rachel Cruze:How much do you guys make a year, Tony? $172 ,000. Okay. I mean, it sounds crazy. I should be able to, you know, put more money. Like, I shouldn't be as, you know, kind of stressed out about it. But it's still, you know, it seems like at least the house is paying off, but something always comes up. I'm trying to save, you know, and try to keep. I used a lot of my personal savings also to pay the house off. So I've been trying to, you know. How much do you have left in savings? About$12 ,000. So now I'm trying to put, you know, Were you investing? Well, you have$60 ,000 invested, you said. So have you been investing in the last five years after you paid off your consumer debt, too?

27:03Rachel Cruze:You've been putting money away? I was only putting like$200. I was putting about$800 a month. And then I went down because I said my goal was I could see the light at the end of the tunnel here that I can get this house paid off. So I stopped really putting too much in investment, investing, and tried to really push to get the house done. But then, you know, time, like they say, time helps for investing. And I feel like I kind of cut myself short, but I guess I can try to make it up now. Well, you can. So at this point, now that you're on baby step seven, which is to build wealth and be generous.

27:39Rachel Cruze:So if you invested, even if you went back to our 15%, which you can invest more and say you have 60 ,000 saved now, Now, say you put$2 ,000 in a month, okay, which would be$24 ,000 a year, and you do that for 25 years, then that's going to be$4 million at retirement. Oh, okay. With a paid-off house, how much is the house worth today? About$700. Okay. Well, and in 25 years, you know, you'll be, gosh, close to probably have a$6 million net worth at that point. And that's less than 15 % of your gross household income is the written numbers Rachel just calculated. And you only put in that. What would you do?

28:19Rachel Cruze:$2 ,500 a month? Let's just have fun with this. What would you say? It would be, let's see,$25 ,800 divided by 12. $21 ,50 would be exactly 15%. Okay, I was close, George. Yeah, I was just saying. I'm saying Rachel's being conservative. You're being a little conservative. By$100 a month, Tony, I was being conservative. Let's do it. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Let's just up it just for the fun of it. $21 ,50. So$21 ,50. Okay, there we go. $4 ,200. $4 ,200. $4 ,200. Me too. All right. We're getting up there. I only put$1 ,200 right now. Yeah, you've got to up that, Tony. So I think that is a little, okay, and you paid off your house, which is incredible.

28:52Rachel Cruze:But that is one reason we talk about baby steps four, five, and six. We don't jump from paying off consumer debt straight to paying off the mortgage because you want to take care of retirement, and that's 15 % of your income. So if you had been doing that over the last 15 years or the last five years since listening, you would have more, which is fine. I mean, you're growing to be okay. And kids' college, we talk about that next. Like you need to be putting money away for kids' college and then throw extra at the house. So if you had waited just in a different scenario another four, five years to pay off the house and instead did these other buckets, I do wonder if it would have felt less extreme.

29:30Rachel Cruze:It would have probably felt a little bit more in rhythm with your life, right? But it's not a bad thing, Tony. But I think I could see how if you go straight there, you pay everything off and then you're like, oh, my gosh, I have college and retirement, these two big buckets that are very legitimate. So that feeling you have is real. And I'm not negating that. But I also want to encourage you. Yes, if you fund. And again, baby step seven, you can invest more than 15 percent of your income. Right. So even if you went up to 20 percent. Once the kids are out of college and you've helped cover as much as you can from that, you'll be upping that to 30, 40 percent of your income.

30:05Rachel Cruze:You could throw so much in investment at that point. And then you have a paid-off house too, Tony, at the end of this, right? Plus a pension, plus Social Security. Yeah, and a lot of people going into retirement still have a mortgage, and that's a big thing that they try to take care of before retirement. And, yeah, you're done with that at 43, which is pretty remarkable. Thanks. Yeah, just like you say, though, the stress will just – like if I probably would have done it the other way around, it would have been a lot. At least those bases are covered, but you're still – Yeah. I mean, it's, you know.

30:36Rachel Cruze:Yeah, but that's okay. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, listen. You said about$2 ,100 a month? $2 ,100 a month. Yes, to invest. Okay. And you can put that in. That's the goal. Yeah. Roth IRAs. I don't know if Cameron said he had 401Ks work-wise. But, yeah, to find some investments to put that in. And, yeah, and you'll be great. You'll have$4 million. The biggest thing is stop beating yourself up over what you could have done differently. You got the rest of your life ahead of you. The windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason. So you got this, Tony. Keep fighting the good fight.

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32:48If you're new to The Ramsey Show, you hear us talk about the baby steps quite a lot. And that's because they are the framework that we use to answer every single money question on this show, and it works every time you work that plan. So if you want to learn more about the baby steps, you can learn more at the link in the description. We'll get you all the information you need to follow along. Isaac is in Montgomery, Alabama. Up next, Isaac, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you, Rachel and George. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I'll try to be concise and get to the point.

33:20So I'm recently married. I'm 27 years old. My wife is 26. I have a full-time job, a career. I make take home about, say, 60 a year after taxes and all my benefits. She is still in graduate school, but she's getting paid as a graduate assistant. And then she has a second job that take home is about$3 ,500. hundred so combined we're kind of in the the eight range i i vary due to overtime and and at minimum i'm usually around mid fours but uh she's about to get a full-time job and at this point i'm really excited about working in baby step two and killing all our student loan debt we have about a hundred thousand just a little bit over combined uh we have a little bit of credit card debt about, I think,$8 ,000 total and then$2 ,000 on the car that she drives.

34:19So we have a lot of kind of small student loans that I'm looking forward to get paying offs, including the car and the credit cards. But I've had these conversations, and I've kind of tried to show her a timeline. And if we really work hard and use all this extra money that we're going to have after our expenses, that we can get rid of this debt within maybe three years is the time I'm looking at kind of generous and that we won't make as much as we think and we'll be spending more just trying to be really give a lot. Is that about$3 ,000 a month toward the debt? Say that again? Is that about$3 ,000 a month getting thrown toward the debt and the debt snowball?

35:02Yeah. To get it done in three years? Give or take. And having these conversations, there's just a bit of a split, a divide. she's very kind of concerned. She's not really been in this sort of situation before. I mean, she finds it hard to believe that we're even going to be able to pay off the debt. And I've tried to, you know, been like, hey, you know, we can do this. We're going to make the money for it. You know, I know we're not making the most, but even with what we do and what we spend, we'll be able to do it. It's going to take a little bit of time if we keep our noses down. but I'm trying to compromise.

35:44She wants to keep a credit card. We're going to get rid of about four credit cards, and we're compromising on keeping one. And then when it comes to the debt, we're compromising right now, or we've talked about it, where she wants to be putting about 10 % or 15 % of our surplus away towards either an increased emergency fund or like a house fund, something we're renting right now. but we really do want to buy once we get rid of the student loans. And again, I've been like, hey, if we go hard at the student loans, we're going to make that up in the back end. As long as we get one done, then the next, and then the next, we're going to be over probably$1 ,500 to$2 ,000 of extra money we'll have once we get rid of all that student loans.

36:36So, Isaac, I'm curious from your perspective,

36:39Rachel Cruze:Why do you want to pay off debt? What goes on inside of you when you think about it? Name off a couple of emotions. I don't want to put any words in your mouth, but what does it feel like for you? Right now with it, it feels overbearing. You know, you've got this weight. I've got this weight on my shoulder, and I see all this money every month going towards these debts. And because of the minimum, I'm watching the principal go up. No, I hear you. I hear you. So you're going math again. Stay with me in the emotional realm. As your wife, I'm trying to give the woman's perspective. Okay, so it feels overbearing.

37:17Rachel Cruze:So then what does that do to you throughout the day, at night? How does that affect your life? It's just added stress. I can see the finish line, and it makes me excited. I feel like when we get there, we'll be free. and it'll be the freedom, the weight off our shoulders. I don't, again, we're recently married, so I don't think it affects us too much. We have a good ability to talk to each other. And right now it's just kind of, it's an added stress that I want to be able to get rid of that. And I can see the route and the path. And that's like, that's my number one priority right now is let's follow the plan and make ourselves uncomfortable and really get rid of it so that we can be free and have a bit more air to breathe.

38:17Rachel Cruze:Sure. Yeah, totally. And I concur with what you're saying. I just think for her, probably, she may feel a little overwhelmed because you're like, here's the timeline. This is what we're going to do. I see the finish line. Get on track. We're going to do this. let's go. And she's like, whoa, whoa, I have other thoughts and other goals and other desires. You know what I mean? To have an emergent, like she has her own goals. And the great thing is everything you've named off so far as a couple, all your, all the goals are amazing. They're all great. Right? Like you're, she's not saying, oh my gosh, I just want to go and spend a bunch and just go travel Europe for, you know, two months and do nothing.

39:00Rachel Cruze:And you know what I mean? Like, She's not a not realistic person. Everything that she's wanting is realistic. And so that's the great thing. And so the work is going to be for you guys to get aligned. And I would want to make sure that she hears from you, Isaac, not just the numbers and the finish line and the charts and the calendarization of how you're going to do this in Excel. but she hears from her husband who's from what I hear has a has a weight on him that is so stressful you feel a responsibility I'm sure now that you're married and she's in grad school and you feel like you are the main source of income at this point and so much is on your shoulders and when this debt is gone there is that that deep level of relief but I want her to hear you explain it in a way that's more human than just like a human calculator.

40:01Rachel Cruze:So I do wonder sitting down and having a heart to heart with her and you showing your, yeah, I mean, your, your push towards that towards that I think would be helpful. And then I'll throw out, this is probably a little bit more on the, on the knowledge side, but again, her goals are within the baby steps. And we, this plan has been proven for over 30 years, the fastest way to build wealth and to have, you know, these massive goals achieved is in a very specific order. And that is from a mathematical, but also an emotional level. And so, so I would probably kind of push her on that in a sense that, you know, that this is, this isn't something that people just made up, right?

40:43Rachel Cruze:It's been done for over three decades, and it is seen as the most efficient way to get to the goals she wants to get to as well. yeah um i've got a couple ramsey uh company books i've got the total money makeover that i've kind of encouraged her to read after i finish my reread of it uh we use every dollar i've gotten her on that too and i've showed her kind of how it works and how i like to use it and we're we've gotten a lot better at tracking our expenses and now that we're doing everything together joint bank accounts and all that we've gotten better with making sure we know where our money's going um it's just kind of that that long-term plan that and i think you guys will get there too i would give you guys some grace you're newly married you've combined two adult lives she's still in grad school i mean there's yeah i mean so she's been hustling you've been hustling now you're married and she's going wait i thought marriage was going to be like fun and you're giving me like a running regimen for a marathon all of a sudden.

41:47So I think there needs to be some vision cast about, hey, where do you want to end up five years from now? Great. We both say we want to be debt free with savings in the bank and own a home. Great. Now it's just about what's the best path to get there that's surefire. And we know that's the Ramsey plan. So it might take, you know, walking her through Financial Peace University. Hey, Friday nights, we're going to watch a new lesson and we're going to talk about it. We're going to do our budget and check in and also a dream.

42:13Rachel Cruze:So romantic, George. Get some popcorn. Get some takeout. What an exciting Friday night. She really is going to be like, is this marriage to Isaac? Listen, I don't care what's happening with the housewives. I just don't care. Oh my gosh.

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43:55Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, here with Rachel Cruz, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Lynn is in Peoria, Illinois. What's going on, Lynn? Well, my question is, should I pay off my daughter's house? Wow. Whoa, that's exciting. Yeah. What brought this about? Well, I moved in with my daughter, and she's a disabled veteran, so her income is full VA disability and full Social Security disability, which comes to about somewhere around$70 ,000. Okay. And I'm on Social Security and a pension, and mine comes to about$30 ,000. She owes$104 ,000 on her house, and I have$100 ,500 in a 3 % savings account.

44:57Not sure what to do with it. And I thought it would save a lot of money to pay off her house, and she would then be paying me at least$2 ,000 a month. And it would be, I'd have recovered my basic money within four years. And it just seems like a loan. Because 0 % loan is really what you're talking about? Well, she's willing to pay interest too. We both live easily within our budgets. I have almost no bills. So if that's the case, why doesn't she just pay her own mortgage or put extra onto it and pay it off in four or five years? Well, she has been putting some extra towards it, but I just thought that without putting extra towards it, it's going to more than double the cost by an interest.

45:50And why should the bank get it? Why shouldn't I get it? Oh, so you want to become the bank. Right. Is this all the retirement money you have, this$100K? Yes. Well, that scares me too. What if you need it? And it's locked up and she's only paying you two grand a month and all of a sudden... Well, I'm trying to think of, you know, what's the worst that can happen and what would I need it for? I mean, I have a supplementary Medicare and I'm very healthy. In fact, I was just at the doctor. Everything is great.

46:22Rachel Cruze:Lynn, I would not do this. I would not do this. No? No, for multiple reasons. the highest being you being your daughter's bank. From a mathematical perspective, I can see how you can sort of make it work, but relationally, that's going to be a disaster. Well, we've had some experience with that because when she wasn't on disability and she at that time lived with my house, we just worked things out fine and I helped her get her act together.

47:04Rachel Cruze:Yeah, you just changed the relationship from mom to daughter to now lender and borrower. And there's no way around it. I mean, can this come out totally fine? I mean, sure, but I don't think we would have jobs if that was the case. Like there's a disaster that happens that's looming there. And so keeping things separate where financially she is doing what she's doing. You're doing what you're doing. And what scares me, Lynn, is you have$100 ,000 to your name, which is amazing. So well done. I mean, that's a great savings. But what are you gonna do for a house, right? You're gonna pay off a home that's in her name.

47:41Rachel Cruze:You have nothing else to your name. And what if you wanna move out? What if she wants you to move out in a year and a half or two years? What does life look like? It just starts to really limit options, and it puts a strain on a relationship because there's not much safeguarding you in that. Now, if you had a million dollars and you're like, listen, I'm going to write a$4 ,000 check and just pay off my daughter's mortgage. She's a disabled veteran. I mean, I would be like, all day, yes, what a blessing. What a blessing. But it's not a blessing when you become the bank. well i guess i just think that we're in a you know an unusual situation because i'm close with all my kids my other kids think it might be a good idea we want to keep it close that's the issue and if she has to evict her lender that's about as awkward as it gets yeah i guess because we have some history in in having mingled finances um i just think it'll go okay.

48:49Rachel Cruze:I don't think we can convince you otherwise. I'll tell you, I would not do this to my own mother. But that's what you're basing it on. It's just the personal aspect. There's the financial aspect. And decades of hearing personal experiences from people. And Lynn, I'm going to say when you owe family money, regardless of how you slice it, it changes the relationship. It becomes becomes odd when you mingle finances and family. And again, if it is a gift and there's no strings attached, that's one thing. But when you start to wait for a payment from your daughter and, you know, things that can go sideways and you're going to spend all of your, like, I wouldn't even do this for you, Lynn.

49:36Rachel Cruze:I mean, I don't think it's smart. This is all the money to your name. Yeah. I don't think it's smart in your financial situation, let alone adding in the idea of mingling debt and all of that with your daughter. I think that she can, I think if you have a, if you're set up well in life and you want to help her and you want to write a$30 ,000 check to help get the mortgage down for your daughter, that's a beautiful thing. Because currently you're not paying any rent? No, no. She pays all the bills. And has there ever been any talk of, because you said the finances have been mingled. Are Were you paying for anything as part of this arrangement?

50:12I just pay for my supplementary Medicare, and that's it. But no utilities, groceries?

50:19Rachel Cruze:Do you care for her from, like, a physical standpoint with her disability? Because things didn't change. Or is she able to, like, are you a caretaker from, like, a physical sense for her? I don't know the extent of her disability. Yeah, just somewhat. We just help each other out. Okay. I mean, I've, I've, my life has been intermingled with all my children forever because I homeschool my kids. If it's working for you, then just keep doing it. But I would not make it worse by becoming the lender. I think, I think Lynn's gonna do what we'll do, which is great. And I'm glad you called in, Lynn. I really pray it all works out.

50:59Rachel Cruze:I pray in four years, you recoup your money. nothing else happens that you stay healthy and everything goes according to plan i really do i pray that that is the case because that's what she's gonna do so we i all good prayers and vibes and all the things that people send people's way i'm picturing lynn's daughter calls in a year from now and says hey so this is what can happen i'm getting married and my mom was my lender but she's also my tenant and I have to kick her out. And Gary, my fiance. And she has no money because she gave it all to me to pay off the mortgage, but I owe her. So now she's demanding a lump sum in order for me to move out.

51:39And I don't have that.

51:40Rachel Cruze:But it's in my name. And Gary, the fiance, what's he going to do? I would much rather a hard conversation with Lynn now than the harder conversation with the daughter later. It is what it is. I'm pretty sure Lynn has made up her mind. And she may have great relationships. It may be, you know, I don't know, George. You win some, you lose some on the show. I love my mom so much that I would not take a dollar from her in debt. No. That's how much I love her. No. Keep it separate. Because I want her to come over and make me grape leaves and baklava and not say, where's my money? Where's my money? It's not going to be a fun conversation.

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54:01Jonathan is in Indianapolis up next. Jonathan, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me on. Absolutely. How can Rachel and I help? So I've been having some big issues with money. About 10 months ago, I fell and broke my hip. haven't been able to work uh i am on disability and i make about fifteen hundred dollars a month off of that and working was to you know help supplement that um recently my daughter has had some issues with mental health um right now looking at roughly four hundred thousand dollars in debt um from mental health stays in different facilities and things like that and i'm just trying to figure out if I need to file bankruptcy or try to pay it off a little by a little.

54:56She's 14, so there's still another four years of hospital stays and other things coming our way, and it's just going to be more and more and more.

55:08Rachel Cruze:Wow. Gosh, Jonathan, I'm so sorry. Oh, that's so hard. Are you married? I am not. I've got a fiancé. She's been taking the last 10 months to take care of me for the hip. I've had some setbacks with it and probably going to have to have another surgery with it. Wow. So total income right now is$1 ,500? For me, for her, it's a little bit more. She's about$2 ,000 a month. And that's her working part-time? Yes. Okay, so total$3 ,500. and what are your bills every month right now, including your minimum debt payments? Right now, bills altogether, rent vehicles, all of that, it's about$3 ,500. I've got nothing left in the tank.

55:59So just barely breaking even every month. Yeah. What other debt do you have outside of the$400 ,000? I've got about$50 ,000 or so in credit card from trying to keep our heads afloat from not bringing any income in. Cars are broken down. Things have broken in the house that just need fixed. Do you have car loans as well? About$10 ,000. Okay. So you got 60 between the credit cards and the car loans plus the 400. Yeah. Yeah. Man.

56:36Rachel Cruze:And nothing with her hospital stays. Insurance doesn't step in at any point in what you guys have done. No, unfortunately, because it's mental health. They didn't even really want to give her her diagnosis, but they finally did. And it's one of those things where, because altogether, I've got four children. She can't even come over to my house right now because of the other three kids being there and below risk that she poses. Oh, wow. Where is she? In almost two years. Does she stay with her mom or is she in a facility during that time when she came home? She was in a facility, just got kicked out of it.

57:16She was supposed to be there for about four months. She was there for a little over two weeks.

57:22Rachel Cruze:Wow. So is she with her mom right now or is she staying with you? Yes, she actually just got home last weekend. So what are the doctors saying at this point is the best path? Basically, they just keep trying to get her into facilities and things like that. This last one was$60 ,000 up front. For the two-week stay? Yeah. And with our custody agreement, I owe about 70 % of anything that she incurs over$400. Wow. Well, is she on medications right now? Are things under control in any way, or is it still just in flux? It's still just in flux. The medications seem to help, but some things go downhill.

58:13We're trying around different things, and it's just been a whole series of events. Well, what I'm trying to do is get a handle on what the future looks like for medical bills, because if we can sort of know what's coming down the pike, it helps to manage. But if it's just this unlimited black hole that we're going to just spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's going to be hard to climb out. Yeah. Is this straight up medical debt? Yeah. Who is the debt through? It's from all the different hospitals that she's had stays at. She's had seven stays in the last eight months. Okay. Have you been up to date on the payments for these or are collectors coming after you?

58:55uh collectors are coming after because i just don't have anything left in the tank

59:02Rachel Cruze:well um i'm just i i'm so i can't imagine what you guys are walking through that's so difficult and so heartbreaking to see your child suffer in that kind of way but i i'm just thinking moving forward jonathan um there's a couple of things that could be possibilities um medical debt is one that can be very much negotiated and so what that looks like going forward probably not anytime soon but if there was a way somehow of of working on the side working from home having any any amount of money that you can present to them once it's in collections that they may know like they're not going to get anything from you you don't have anything right But if you have a little bit of something, it might be kind of a carrot to dangle.

59:51Rachel Cruze:Now,$400 ,000, that's kind of, you know, that's obviously up there. So that's one route that I'm thinking of. Also, when you guys are choosing, and I want to be careful even asking this because I don't want to come off offensive by any means. But when you're choosing these facilities, are you in such an urgent mode that you're like, sure, this one, just put her in and we need to make sure she's safe. Or have you, have you guys done, you and her mom, um, done levels of research and talk to practitioners and talk to places of, of different options. Right. And I know we want the best care for our kids, but, um, when I hear$60 ,000 for two weeks, I'm like, oh man, I wonder what other options are out there.

1:00:35Rachel Cruze:Have you, do you feel like you have the bandwidth to do that research and have kind of that, those facts on your side? Um, yes, we've, her mom is actually in the medical field and we've done lots and lots of research into the facilities and things like that. Were any of them nonprofits? Uh, no, because there's nothing near us that unfortunately will be a nonprofit. Uh, this one, we actually had to send her to Wisconsin for, because unfortunately while she was in her psychiatrist's office, she ate 23 extra strength Benadryl. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Well, I would be looking into, and it sounds like you've been doing this, the homework of looking into every financial assistance program available through these providers because with your income, my guess is they're going to go, all right, he can't pay, the income's not going to be there to pay, or it goes to collections and you end up settling for 10 % to 30 % of the total balance.

1:01:39which means you're not on the hook for$400 ,000 now. You're on the hook for$40 ,000 to$60 ,000. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So that is a sort of best-case scenario we can hope for down the line.

1:01:50Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I wonder for you long-term, Jonathan,$1 ,500 a month. Because how old are you? I'm 33. I've got an autoimmune disease. That's why I'm on disability. Okay. Well, I'm just wondering for the sustainability of your life and obviously everything with your daughter is like a whole other level, but I'm just talking about just you and your fiance to sustain somewhat of a manageable life, your income, it's gonna have to come up. And I don't know if that's you and your fiance getting married and she works full-time and she's the main breadwinner because of what you're dealing with personally. Or if there's things that, even call centers, I'm like, if there's anything making 22 an hour, you know, and working 30 hours a week to bring in something just to sustain your life.

1:02:43Rachel Cruze:Right. And then beyond that, obviously caring for your daughter. But but I would be looking at some some options in that scenario just from a career standpoint, because you are still so young. You're 33. And I would want you not to struggle and write inch by inch for the rest of your life either. And even if they are willing to settle with collections for 10 % of the balance, you still need to come up with$40 ,000. Yeah. And that's going to take really upping the income. That's the key variable here that we can control because there's so much out of your control. But, man, I hate that you're going through this.

1:03:20This sounds like it's not going to be an easy fight, but we are rooting for you, man.

1:03:35Thank you.

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1:05:16Zayden is in Salt Lake City up next. What's going on, Zayden? Hi, guys. I am calling today. I guess basically they call you and ask you to talk me out of taking out student loans. Okay, let's see how good our persuasive sales pitch is here.

1:05:34Rachel Cruze:We've been 50-50 so far on the show today. I think so. You can't always bat a thousand. We'll see what we can do. So what happened that you ran out of money here? So I worked a summer job that I thought was going to cover my tuition and everything I needed this year as well, as long as I took a part-time job to start the fall. And so far, I just started my junior year. I'm 20 years old, and I've cash flowed college all the way up until now. The only debt I have is on a car. I owe about$11 ,000 on the car, and I'm underwater, so that's not helpful. But this morning, I've run out of money, and I've been struggling to find a part-time job since I got back from my summer job.

1:06:19The only job I found, I'm working five hours a week as an assistant for a travel agency. And so I'm just not making enough to cover my expenses. I've been in interviews where the only thing to tell people back, they've handed me the compensation package. They're about to hire me. And then I tell them my school schedule, and they're like, we just can't work around that. And so I'm like at the point where I don't have enough money to cover what I need. And I'm like, student loans are about the only thing I can see. Are you living on campus? I live with my parents. Okay. And is there any financial help from them?

1:06:53No, they make a lot of money, like almost$300 ,000 a year, but they have probably close to half a million dollars in consumer debt and they can't afford anything.

1:07:03Rachel Cruze:Oh, wow. So how much is tuition a year or per semester, I should ask? Per semester. So I'm on a half tuition scholarship. My tuition for this semester was about$2 ,000. Books was about another$200. $2 ,000. Okay. So that's the gap? Just$2 ,000? I already paid the tuition. For this semester? I don't have money for, like, to pay my car payment, to pay my insurance. How much is all that per month? How much would you need per month to get by, like, as a college student, to scrape by? About$1 ,000. $1 ,000, okay.

1:07:43Rachel Cruze:Man, I'm like, I feel like somewhere you can make$300 a week, you know? That's the ticket. I mean, can you just wait tables? I've applied for server jobs and not even gotten, like, and I've tried calling them, and they've been like, they just aren't, they have an open application, but they're not really looking for people. I'm a little shocked because I know the service, yeah, the service industry though is strong, like they're looking for people. So have you walked in? And that's where I have experience. Before I took off of my summer job, I was working in a restaurant as a cook and I worked with a manager for a minute and I just can't find anything.

1:08:17Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Have you gone in person to these places or just applied online? Yeah, I just walked in the restaurant and talked to them. And how many have you tried? I've gone in person. about five different restaurants but I've gone to with my family when we've gone but I I would hustle a little bit Zayden and I wonder too, I mean Salt Lake is there I mean I'm thinking of is there a landscaping company you can pick up part time on the weekends is there, I don't know I mean it's just things in your neighborhood if you live with your parents, man there's people in my neighborhood making money because rich people are scared of leaves I think 300 bucks a week I think you can do this.

1:08:58Rachel Cruze:Do Instacart. The thing is, I'm 20 years old and Instacart, like, well, one, I actually live just north of Salt Lake in an area where there's too many drivers and I've tried Instacart DoorDash. They won't. Their wait list is a year out.

1:09:17Rachel's not buying it. Really? Zayden, I'm going to encourage you to look at other side hustles, too. It doesn't have to be one of the app side hustles where you need the car and all that. But right now, the gap is so little.

1:09:30Rachel Cruze:Go to Salt Lake City Airport and do Uber. I'm like, that place is packed all the time. I don't know. I'm just - But what city law says you have to be 25 to drive Uber. Okay. Well, do you? I guess so. I don't know. I'm trying to think if I drove it. I think maybe that was a new thing because when I drove Uber, I don't think I was 25 yet. But all that to say, Zayden, I think we can hustle more. I'm going to help you. I don't think hitting up five restaurants is not going to close the gap. No, you can be 18. Oh, to ride alone. Never mind. That's as a rider. Rachel's like, I'm going to find the fine print on this one.

1:10:05Rachel Cruze:I am. I am. Okay. You got to be 21. How old are you? 20? 20. When's your birthday? When's your birthday? Next July. All right. We got some time. Okay. I just feel like there's a rich person that needs their, you know, trees trimmed or something, and then snow in Salt Lake and shovel sidewalks. I don't know. I just feel like— Just use AI, make a little flyer and say, here's my services. For$300 a week, I think you can do—I just believe in you. What are you studying in school? I'm in software engineering. Okay. So you're a techie guy. All right. Talk to them about tech stuff. Well, I'm just wondering, there's stuff you can even do online for people.

1:10:47if you're in software engineering.

1:10:50Rachel Cruze:Coding? Because nobody cares if you're 20 or 30 doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, something I've thought about, I've struggled to find a market for. Like I've been reaching out, I posted something on my Instagram a couple weeks ago to see if people were interested in me building a website for them or something. How many followers do you have on Instagram? A thousand. Okay, so it probably went to four people. I think we need to do a little more proactive marketing you need to find the problems and go, hey, I can solve this for you. Here's what I charge. Because Aiden, I'll say this. If you call and you're like, I need$15 ,000 for this semester's tuition, I'd be like, okay, we've got an uphill battle here.

1:11:31Rachel Cruze:2 ,000 bucks, I just, I don't know. Or 1 ,000 bucks a month is what you said you need. I don't know. I feel like you can figure this out. Because would you take out student loans for your lifestyle? Would you use it for your car payment and everything? I would mostly be using it to cover gas and stuff because I'm at a commuter school. I pay about$200 to$300 a month in gas. Okay. So that's the other thing. Is there any jobs on campus you can do? Because I did that when I was in college. And it helped with the tuition too. $12 an hour in the publicity office writing up press releases or whatever.

1:12:08Is there any jobs on campus you can find? I tried that too. It's crazy. I applied like two weeks before school started. I applied to every open job posting and even called a couple of the offices. Are you athletic?

1:12:22Rachel Cruze:Is there a sport you played in high school? I ran cross country. Okay. I'm wondering if, because I know in our area, people pay for college students to help train their little nine-year-olds and they pay 60 bucks an hour for baseball or something. Right? I'm like, I'm like, I don't know. I'm not a cross country runner. Can you teach a kid how to breathe properly and have the correct form when they're running? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe someone in Salt Lake. All we're trying to say is the world is your oyster and you haven't explored enough. That's it. But you can close the gap without student loans.

1:12:58If you think student loans are going to be the answer, you're going to take it every time. But if you said, no student loan debt, I got to get a$300 this week. What am I going to do? and you just go try 17 things. And at 20, you have the benefit of being able to do that. It's such a luxury to be young living with your parents.

1:13:15Rachel Cruze:You don't got a wife at home and kids. And you're living at home. That's right. No rent. There you go. This is the time. But I'll tell you, I bet that car payment is putting a dent in his ability to save. I bet you're right. And at the time, it was like, well, it's a small car payment. I need a car. You got to get a new car. Not a big deal. Now it's that$300 a week that's really chipping away. Man. Well, we do have a side hustle quiz that I encourage you to check out. You can go to ramsaysolutions.com slash side hustle or use the link in the description. That's for anybody out there. And it'll help you figure out which ones make sense for you based on how much time you have, what kind of skills you have, at-home jobs versus in-person jobs.

1:13:51Rachel Cruze:And I think more than ever, there's like the quirkiest jobs people find, side hustles. People that have called, and I wouldn't recommend this because I don't know that much about it. But like the baseball, remember that guy that called in and he has like$40 ,000 worth of baseball cards because it's like a hobby and he knows how to collect. I don't know. I got nine-year-olds in my neighborhood that pick up dog poop. $20 a visit. $20 a visit. That's what I'm telling you. They're booked up. And I know Salt Lake. There's some nice areas. Some big houses. There's some wealthy people in that area. Dress nice and go to the door and say, hey, I live down the street.

1:14:25Here's my skill set. If you guys need any help, let me know.

1:14:28Rachel Cruze:Pressure wash the driveway. You know? I don't know. I think you can do it, though. I really believe in you. Thank you.

1:15:03Rachel Cruze:Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out the Ramsey plan, right? They're getting out of debt and everything. But the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money. Yeah, most banks, they don't want you to win with money. So they charge a bunch of nuisance fees. There's all this fine print. And worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you nonstop. Yes, but the good thing is that Fairwinds isn't like most banks. They're not like the other guys. They're not like the other guys. Yeah, they are not pushing debt.

1:15:30Rachel Cruze:And they actually want you to win with the baby steps. And so what's great, too, is they created the smart bundle for Ramsey fans, which includes a high-yield savings account and no monthly fee checking. Which is huge because it's rare to have a checking account tied to a high-yield savings account. You can get all of that with Fairwinds. And for the nerds out there, you can have 10 different high-yield savings accounts for different goals. So you've got your emergency fund, the car upgrade fund, the vacation fund. The world is your oyster. So beautiful. And check out the debit card, the new one.

1:16:00Rachel Cruze:The live like no one else debit card. Oh, that's beautiful. It's so beautiful. That's a conversation starter. It's so good. Well, and when you swipe or you tap, you know, every time you take it out of your wallet, you're remembering that you are living like no one else and you're being intentional with your money. I've been using Fairwinds for months and months now. I love their features, the app, the customer service. It is all so good and so aligned with the Ramsey principles. Absolutely. So y 'all, we both bank at Fairwinds and we love their commitment to Ramsey values. So check it out. You can get that smart bundle.

1:16:27We're going to drop a link in the description or you can go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey today.

1:16:32Rachel Cruze:That's right. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

1:16:54All right, Rachel, you know what time it is? It's question of the daytime.

1:16:58Rachel Cruze:Oh, yes. Brought to you by YReFi. Sometimes the hardest financial step is the one you've been avoiding. So if your private student loans are past due, YReFi can help you explore low fixed rate refinancing options and payment plans tailored to your circumstances. Go to YReFi.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question is from Adam in Vermont. I've been working on the debt snowball and recently started a new job making$160 ,000 a year. I have$110 ,000 in student loans, 47 in IRS debt, and 36 ,000 in credit cards. I have been paying about$3 ,200 per month towards my debt using the debt snowball method, smallest to largest.

1:17:36Rachel Cruze:At this pace, I won't be debt-free until 2033, which feels very far away. Is there a way to do this faster? Wow. Well, you got a new job making$160 ,000. I mean, call me crazy, George. I will. Quick math, but I'm like, well, Vermont, I'm trying to figure out where he lives. I'm like, could you swing, make it, you know, acting like you make 60, throw 100 at this. I mean, I know it's after taxes and everything, but throw 100 at the student loan debt. You got 47, 36. I mean, man, two years, possibly, right? If you live on 60, two and a half years. It's a margin problem. Two and a half years. Is there a way to do this faster?

1:18:19Yes. you are not throwing enough at the debt. You have a great income making 160.

1:18:23Rachel Cruze:He said he recently started it. So I'm going to assume. So let's reassess our debt snowball. Yes, exactly. Can we throw 5 ,000 a month? If we're bringing home 10, we live off five and send five to the debts. It's going to be done a lot faster. So that's the math here is just figuring out how much margin I can free up from cutting expenses down, increasing income. That might mean you're working overtime or side hustles on top of your 160 to clean this up in a reasonable amount of time because 2033 I mean I don't know if the world's gonna still be rotating on its axis by then so let's get a game plan that means short term sacrifice versus the next seven years of our life.

1:19:00Rachel Cruze:Yeah but I think two and a half years I bet he could do this by 2030 That's less than four years. Yeah I like this plan. I mean five grand a month he's done in just over three years so that's what I would be aiming for is no more than three years. And then that means that he doesn't get a raise in three years, which you probably will, right? And you throw all the extra at it. So maybe even faster than that. Yeah. And the best way to do this, the EveryDollar budgeting app is now far more than just budgeting. We'll actually help you devise a plan to find more margin with personalized recommendations for your situation.

1:19:36So I wish you were on the line, Adam. I'd give it to you. But since you're not, reach out. If we can get access to your information, we'll send you one. But for everyone else, if you're like, I want margin, how do I get that? Every dollar will help you find it so that you can make more progress in your goals and work the plan even faster. We'll drop a link in the description as well. Judy is in South Bend, Indiana. Up next, what's going on, Judy? Well, hi, guys. Hey. I wrote out, you know, like a sentence, so it said, I'm saying, my husband and I have been married for 50 years. 50?

1:20:11Rachel Cruze:Congratulations, Judy. Wow. Consecutively? Yeah. That's impressive. You gotta ask. To each other. It's a long time. I've been in a marriage for 50 years. That's good. Okay. That's amazing. You guys aren't even 50 years old yet. No. No, we're not. We're retired. Okay. We have no debt. Okay. We're financially secure. We don't need to leave it to our kids. They're doing well. I enjoy going to the casino with my best friend a few times a month, and my husband does not like it, and we argue about it all the time. I just wanted to know what you had to say about that. Okay. What does financially secure mean?

1:20:55Rachel Cruze:How much money do you guys have? What's your net worth? Probably$9 million. Wow. Okay. Fantastic job. And you're not going to leave any to your kids? Well, we will, but they're both making. Yeah, they're doing well, which is amazing. Yes, absolutely. What is your yearly income? Like, what do you guys live off of? About 120. Oh, wow. Judy, what's your friend's name that you like to go to the casino with? Will you drop her name, or is that too personal? Mary. Mary. Judy and Mary. All right. Love it. What's the game of choice at the casino for you? We play slots, and we know that that's, you know, not the best.

1:21:39No judgment here. No judgment here. Okay, how much do you spend in a given outing at the casino? About$200. And you do that how many times a month? A couple times. Like three? Five? Three. Two to three. So have you ever spent more than$600 in a given month at the casino? Yes. Okay. What is the most you've spent at the casino? Probably$1 ,000. Okay. Was that discussed prior to going to the casino? No. I think this is the crux of the argument. It's not that you're going to the casino. It's that he doesn't know if you're going to go spend$200 or$1 ,000.

1:22:20Rachel Cruze:It doesn't matter. Even if you have the money. I have$9 million. But it's the, there's zero communication about this. It's not in any budget. It's just you willy-nilly going, spending as much as you feel like, which you can financially. But she's not spending like, I mean, I hear you, George. I hear you. But also ratios. It's not about the dollar amounts. But ratios. Yes. You guys are spending so little that your money, you're going to have$20 million. sitting there and he's going to go, I guess that casino money wasn't really that big of a deal. I don't think for him it's a matter. I think he just thinks it's stupid.

1:22:52Rachel Cruze:Is that what he thinks? It's a waste? Yeah. You're throwing money down the drain. Okay, so yeah, yeah. That's a... Does he have any hobbies? Yeah. What does he do that you think is stupid? Is he a golfer? Yeah, no, he fishes. I don't think he does anything stupid. And if he did, I wouldn't care if he did it as long as it was, you know, safe and legal. Sure, sure. Sure, sure. Is he actually getting the fish? Is he bringing it home and cooking it? Or does he just catch a release? No, no. He brings out the walleye a lot. Oh, nice. Judy, I am perfectly fine with you and Mary going to the casino and spending a couple hundred bucks a month.

1:23:30Rachel Cruze:Totally fine. When I said nine, I meant like all our assets and everything. Well, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Your real estate, cash, investments, all that. I mean, how much cash do you guys have? I mean, yeah, to live off of cash-wise, investment-wise, what would that be? That does not include real estate. Probably three. Okay, yeah. Listen, this is where the Ramsey personalities differ on this subject, which is fine. And Dave's out of town. So it's Georgianized today. I'll pretend to be Dave. Yeah, because George would side with Dave. They think it's, well, you can give your opinion.

1:24:11Rachel Cruze:Well, here's the thing. Dave hates losing money. So he does think it's dumb to do anything where you're almost guaranteed to lose money. Right. But I would say if you're having an experience and you're spending money and again, it is reasonable. There's no like addiction that you're trying to like satisfy. Right. Like I think there's nothing big happening. It's not big numbers and you're having fun with it. I mean, that could be, you know, going to the mall and buying a couple shirts for 200 bucks. Right. And instead of that, she's she's going to go and play some slots. Listen, it doesn't it doesn't bother me now.

1:24:49Rachel Cruze:That doesn't matter that you didn't call to get my permission. But for you and your husband, where you guys have to come to is, yeah, I think you guys need to to make a budget, honestly, and say, hey, for once a month, here's an amount of money that's going to be my fun money that I'm going to enjoy. And again, you could use that money and go get your nails done or go get a massage or I don't know. And he'll probably think that's stupid, too. Yeah, and he could. Totally. Actually, I think it's stupid because we've never been on a budget, and he's always wanted to be, and I poo-poo it. Oh, Judy, Judy.

1:25:22All right.

1:25:23Rachel Cruze:Here's your in with him. Say you'll do a budget, and you guys, and you have to agree. You get a vote in the budget, too. It's not just him making it and telling you what to do. You get a vote and a say, and hey, here's the amount of money per month that we spend, and here's where it's going to go. And Judy needs a line item. Mary and I's day away, right, or whatever it's going to be. That's the line item. And then he gets a line item for some of his fun money. And, yeah, call it a day. So maybe that's your in with him is that now you'll do a budget. How nice is his fishing boat? He actually goes with his brother, and he's got three of them.

1:26:01Oh, nice. So they're very serious. That's intense. All right. Yeah. That's a lot of money. That's going down in value. The key is you guys financially could spend double what you're doing right now per year and still never run out of money and likely never touch the principle. That's right. So this is not mathematical or financial. It's all emotional. And you guys need to get to the root of why he's frustrated with this and come up with a compromise. And the budget is going to help.

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1:27:53Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Lisa is in Raleigh, North Carolina, up next. Lisa, how can we help today? Hi. So I just wanted to see if I can get some advice or some information.

1:28:13Rachel Cruze:We were thinking about paying off my parents' home, and they are going to beat us to home right afterwards. I just want to see what your thoughts are on that and the tax implications regarding that. What's causing them to ask you to pay off their home? Oh, I don't think they're asking. They were just looking at pretty much looking at their estate, how to finalize some of their estates. And we just they were going to they didn't want to do a will and all of that. So we just thought, you know, free and clear, we'll just pay it off and you just feed it to us and we wouldn't have to worry about anything when they pass.

1:28:44Why didn't they want to do a will? We just didn't. I mean, we just wanted the easiest way because, you know, we're pretty financially stable to be quickest and easiest way to do it. You know, and then it's done. We don't have to worry about it after they pass. It's in our name already. I imagine they have other assets in their estate outside of this house, right? There's other accounts? Just bank accounts, and we're not too concerned about that. They can do what they will with that. I think it's just a little bit easier with the home to go ahead and get it in our name. That way, when they pass, we don't have to go through lawyers and courts.

1:29:22Rachel Cruze:Yeah. I want to say, though, from a capital gains standpoint. Yeah, here's the big issue. You don't get a step up basis, right? Yeah, if they deed it to you while they're alive, it's one of the worst things you can do financially. Because it's considered a gift, not inheritance. And so the original cost basis would carry over. So if they paid$100 ,000 for this house and it's now worth$500 ,000, when you go to sell that house, you're going to owe on the difference. You got to pay taxes on the$400 ,000. But if they just pass away, you inherit the house, then you get a step up in basis, meaning it's fair market value at the time of their death.

1:29:59Rachel Cruze:So it starts at$500 ,000. So if it goes up$100 ,000 over five years or whatever, right, then you sell it. You only have to pay taxes on that$100 ,000. So basically you could sell it without any taxes if you inherit it within, let's say, six months after they pass. But if you get it deeded over to you, you're going to carry over what they paid for it as a basis. And I would say even if you plan on keeping it, Lisa, you're going to have to pay those taxes over decades that they've owned this home. Right. So would it make a difference if we got an appraisal right afterwards? It doesn't matter because if they deed it to you while they're alive, it's considered a gift.

1:30:38Rachel Cruze:It's not an inheritance. So no, the cheapest, smartest way to do this is that they create a will and the home goes to you all when they pass. even with the mortgage still? Yes. Like if they haven't paid off the home. Regardless of if you pay off the mortgage or not, the best way to do this is to inherit it. It's the value of the home. So you'd rather have a value of$500 ,000 sitting with you after they've passed, as an example, than having a$500 ,000 asset, but it's really in praise at$100 ,000. So when it sells, you're paying taxes on$400 ,000 that you could have just avoided by not deeding it to you.

1:31:16Rachel Cruze:And a will is pretty simple, Lisa. I mean, you may go through a little bit of probate and stuff, but it's not very complicated. You can go to Mama Bear Legal Forms, MamaBearLegal.com, and create a state-specific will for them. And if it's a very simple estate and it's a primary home, a residence, some bank accounts like what you're saying, it's really not difficult at all. You guys are actually creating – you guys are choosing the more difficult route. And in some states, I'm not sure what North Carolina law is, but if you can set up a transfer on death for that house, then it will avoid probate.

1:31:46And same thing for any bank accounts. There you go. A bank account would be payable on death, POD. If you can set that up on the bank accounts, it avoids probate. And if there's anything that has a beneficiary designation like life insurance or a retirement account, all of that can also avoid probate. So there's a lot of things you can do to keep it simple, but you still definitely need a will. And a simple online will that's state-specific will do the job. And we have a great partner with Mama Bear Legal Forms where you can do that very cheaply. Less than a couple hundred bucks and it's over.

1:32:13I did it in less than 15 minutes for my own parents just a couple weeks ago. Yeah, no, I did. I used it with my daughter when she went off to college. Good. So what's left on the mortgage? Okay, that's interesting. About$50 ,000. And what's the house worth? It's interesting. Probably about$200 ,000. I think they bought the house at about$140 ,000,$150 ,000. Okay, so it hasn't appreciated much. Okay, okay, that's fair. It's a huge, significant amount. And why? That's the reason why. We talked to a couple of lawyers and CPAs, and they seem to think this was the best route. And honestly, we're not sure.

1:32:47Well, are they not doing well financially? Are they struggling? Is that why you're looking to pay it off? Well, it's not bad. They're old. They're just living off social security. And this is just a burden that we were willing to take on, my husband and I. It wouldn't make a significant impact on us financially, so we thought this would just be quick and easy. So you guys have an extra$50 ,000 cash laying around that you could set to this?

1:33:11Rachel Cruze:we do oh yeah i then i would at least i'd just pay it off but i wouldn't worry about it being deeded over i would just create the will that upon their passing you all get the house gotcha and then look into that tod that transfer on death okay that that's the simplest way to do it with the lease because here's the deal i don't know how much you love paying taxes i want to pay as little as i can legally and so this is a good way to not have your parents' hard-earned money and their assets getting taxed to oblivion by the government because you just made one wrong move. Yeah. How old are they? They're about 75, 80 years old.

1:33:50Rachel Cruze:Okay. Okay. Great. And will they be living in this home? Probably. I mean, we don't have any plans on doing anything with it. They're out of it. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, that could be another 10 years of it appreciating, right? Right. So, yeah, that's how I would do it. I still wouldn't have it deeded over to you while they're alive. But if you want to pay it off to be nice, because I think the house is going to go to you either way, it sounds like. Right, and you're absolutely right. We'd like to avoid the least amount of taxes possible. Yeah, but if you didn't pay$50 ,000 to pay off their mortgage, would this house still be inherited by you?

1:34:33um well here's the concern there's other parts to it there's multiple siblings that my parents just doesn't feel comfortable oh um do the siblings know about this arrangement yes so they know

1:34:47Rachel Cruze:so you feel a little bit more justified in the scenario if you're like well we've paid it off so like we're the ones who paid it off it helps yeah yeah so we kind of have like skin in the game in this asset of mom and dad's. Okay. Oh boy. That adds a whole other layer of tension. Yeah, for sure. But also it doesn't change the answer of what you would do from a will standpoint. But yes, that can, I can see how you're like, let us help it pay off the mortgage so that it creates less drama. Sort of guarantee your spot on the will. Well, that and like it looks better to the siblings when they don't get the house because at least they can be like, well, we paid for it.

1:35:27Rachel Cruze:So, you know, so yeah, I get that too. Have they had the conversation with the other siblings about what they will or will not get? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. That's where the will is the most important because it just lays it out clearly. And then it's their job to tell everybody who's involved in the will what's going to happen. It should not be a surprise after they pass. And they're like, what? Lisa's getting the house and all. And now they're mad at you. It destroys relationships, which it doesn't sound like there's a lot of function here, mostly dysfunction. But please do this the right way.

1:36:01Rachel Cruze:Welcome to families, though. Welcome to families. You don't get to choose which ones are functional.

1:36:39All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey solutions.com slash agent. That's Ramsey solutions.com slash.

1:37:28Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. We're heading back out to the open seas. Seven nights in the Western Caribbean, Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozumel for the Live Like No One Else cruise, March 14th through the 21st, 2027. And this is a full cruise takeover. It is only Ramsey fans and us personalities on the boat. And it was such a blast last year when we did this. And so we're doing it again.

1:37:52Rachel Cruze:So fun. I mean, honestly, and it's a nice ship. Very nice. Beautiful. Now, you've been on a lot of cruises. This was like my first cruise as an adult, so I had no clue what to expect. Oh, yeah. Okay. What'd you think? I was blown away. Yes. And it's so nice. You don't have to think about, well, how much does that cost? You sort of just show up. It's all there together. Yes. And it's there. It's like you prepaid. You did it with cash. I will say the Ramseys growing up, they were cruise people. I feel like you're either a cruise person or you're not. and all the memories we've made as a family on cruises.

1:38:21Rachel Cruze:They are, they're so fun. And this is, and again, a nice ship because we've been on like big ones, really small, all the different types. This is the perfect size. Happy medium. Yes, and all the content. I mean, it's us. We're all hanging out, all the Ramsey personalities, little smart money happy hour. That's right. We do live tapings of your favorite Ramsey shows on there, world's largest debt-free scream, new wealth building teachings, new content from all of us personalities, which weirdly people want more of. I was like, I thought we were here to have a good time. They're like, no, tell us more about Roth IRAs.

1:38:48Oh my gosh.

1:38:49Rachel Cruze:Every session we did, it was like back down. We do a ton of Q &As. Y 'all can vacation. You guys can hang out, but everyone wanted to learn. It was a great thing. It was fun. So if you're baby step four and up, meaning you're debt free with the emergency fund, mark the moment, celebrate, live a little, have something to look forward to in the budget. So secure your cabin. They are moving fast. You can go to ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. All right. Molly is in Oklahoma City. Up next, what's going on, Molly? Hi, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are expecting our first baby this January.

1:39:26Rachel Cruze:Oh, congratulations. Thank you. I would like to stay home for the first one to two years, but we would be losing about$500 to$600 a month. we have$10 ,000 in checking,$130 ,000 invested, and then our current take home is$5 ,800, but if I quit, it would drop to$4 ,300. I was just seeing if it would be okay in our situation if I stayed home. My husband makes quarterly commission, which could make up for the shortfall, but we wouldn't be saving any money probably for two years. So can you live off of$4 ,300 a month? No, because we do our biggest expense is our house. That's our only debt. And then we do tithe off of our gross amount and then insurance.

1:40:24Rachel Cruze:So how much will you be? What's your deficit each month if you just went to his income? $500 to$600 short a month. Okay. Okay. But since we have like$130 ,000 invested, like, is it okay to, you know, since it's such a short season, pull from that or use his commission check to make up for it? Well, yeah, he could use the commission check for sure. I mean, he could just add that as income. Is your investments retirement? Is it like in 401ks and Roth IRAs or is it in just index funds, mutual funds where is it so a hundred thousand is in stocks and then the rest is in uh retirement in 401k okay i mean we only have 10 000 in checking but we'll throw everything else to that from now on do you guys have consumer debt uh i don't our only debt is our house okay so no credit card debt student loans car loans nothing like that what's the mortgage payment every month?

1:41:27It'll bump up to$2 ,000 next month. Because of insurance or property taxes? Property taxes. Got it. Okay. So that is a little less than half of your take-home pay. That's the scarier part is that this is just a big part of your financial world.

1:41:45Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. So you probably, you may not be able to afford to stay in the home and not work. even with like that much saved up uh yeah because your current income you guys can't support your lifestyle even with you working full-time it's still about a third of your take-home pay and we recommend 25 of your after-tax monthly income going to mortgage anything above that makes it really hard to then save for college pay extra on the mortgage save up for vacation you'll have no wiggle room at all in the budget. Yeah. So that's probably where I would be. Now, two years is a quick timeline, but... Now, if you want to sell off your non-retirement stocks, you said it's$30 ,000?

1:42:29No,$100 ,000. $100 ,000 you said is retirement? No,$100 ,000 in stocks. Is that in single stocks? I'm not sure, actually. Okay. I just know it's invested in stocks, and my husband kind of did all that. What was the purpose of that investing? Well, we really just, I mean, I've saved my whole life. I just have always had like this huge chunk just sitting in my checking, not doing anything. So we just moved all of that to, um, because without the baby and me working, we save about 1500 a month.

1:43:04Rachel Cruze:We live very frugal. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you absolutely could pull some of that money and say, hey, we're going to use 500 bucks a month. But but that I don't want that to be your long term mindset, Molly, because I think what can be hard is once you hold that baby in your home, you know, there's always a chance, which is beautiful and wonderful that you're like, I just I don't want to go back to work. Nothing in me wants to go back to work, right? And when you're used to kind of taking this funnel and it's dripping out, eventually that runs out. And so the goal is to right-size lifestyle and income so that you don't have to touch those investments.

1:43:43Rachel Cruze:So if you guys did for a little bit, I wouldn't be mad about it by any means, but you definitely have to justify the choices you guys have made in order for you to stay at home. And sometimes we can't have it all. Do you know what I mean? That might mean you change where you live long term so that we can lower the mortgage. And, you know, and even I don't know, George, I mean, even in, you know, you market two years, which would be what? So the baby will come in 27, 28. But like the January of 29 is the marker of either, hey, if his income hasn't come up and she wants to stay home, we have to move at that point because we can't sustain this long term.

1:44:22Rachel Cruze:you guys will just have to have um a pretty like solid stake in the grounds before that because we just see it and we see it enough that people save and they start to live off that savings and eventually that savings it runs out goes away and then it goes to credit cards and then it's like oh my gosh we got pregnant again and in 18 months we have baby number two we gotta upgrade the car well let's dip into like right like it just starts to kind of snowball if you're not used to living below what you're making from an income perspective at this age, especially, right? As a young adult. Yeah, that's a hard decision.

1:44:55Wishing you guys the best. I know, but good luck.

1:44:58Rachel Cruze:Yes, that's exciting though about the baby. All right, let's go to Ashley in Bloomington, Indiana. What's going on, Ashley? Hey guys, how are you? Doing well. What's your question? I'm calling because my child support is about to go down$488 a month because my ex-husband got a lower income job. And I'm on baby step number one for like the third time. And I have cut subscriptions. And I'm really trying to hone in on what else I can do besides getting another job because I have three children. Two of them are disabled. it was really hard to find um someone to to watch the children and part of that cost of having disabled children is that they go to therapy full-time and i work from home so i have to take them to their to therapy in the morning come back home work take my oldest daughter to work because she doesn't drive because she has her own mental health issues that don't allow that and then i work out my car for three hours about a day then i go pick up the kids and go back home what's the gap you need to cover in your budget?

1:46:09Well, I would like at least$500 to$700. Okay. So if you can make an extra$700 between cutting expenses and increasing income, that would do it. Right. Okay.

1:46:21Rachel Cruze:I can't increase my income because - You're already maxed out. The kids are on. If that's the case, then what you're doing right now, you need to get that core income up. So if you're making$20 an hour, we need to get to$25 an hour. Well, I can't make any more money, though, because my kids are on Medicaid. And if I make any more money, then they'll get kicked off Medicaid. This is a rock and a hard play situation. So you're going to choose. We need to figure out how to make this work if we're going to stay on Medicaid. Or I need to make enough that we can get out of the system entirely to make this sustainable.

1:46:52But either way, there's going to be sacrifice, Ashley.

1:47:14Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles. we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:48:07If you're enjoying the show, you're finding value in the conversations today, pass it along. Share the show with someone that you know, someone you love. It's one of the biggest ways you can help us grow. It's one of the best marketing engines we have is just you guys hitting the share button or word of mouth, telling people along the way, playing it in the background, creating some curiosity, all of that help. So thank you for doing that. Stacy is in Springfield, Missouri up next. What's going on, Stacy? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. I would love to be Dave. I appreciate that.

1:48:40Rachel Cruze:I am so sorry. No, it's okay. I don't get it a lot, but when I do, it's an honor. That's George's biggest compliment. That's okay. I am so sorry. People do think Dave is my dad, which is hilarious. I'm like, no, not Rachel's brother. Oh, is this John? I'm George, and I got Rachel next to me here. Who is Dave's daughter? So you do have like ramsay dna at the desk today okay okay well that's good we got you um my question is my mom is 75 and um my she has given pretty much all her money away to my siblings and she is almost basically she's passed bankrupt she's in the hole oh gosh so she didn't have money to give She had thousands of dollars to give, and she gave them.

1:49:28And then she went in debt to take care of them. That's a lot. Okay, so my question, so I now sit down every month with her and go over her budget. We've created a budget. We have mapped everything out. And I'm just curious if she needs to go back and start the baby steps, and that's going to be the way that we get her out of debt. She's really making a lot of headway. And my other question is, she has a trust that is her beneficiary and should we initiate a hodgepodge clause on it because she's treating what my siblings have already received as inheritance.

1:50:13Rachel Cruze:So this is Rachel, by the way, Stacey. Yeah. So what she's given to your siblings is going to count against their inheritance, basically. Yes. But what does she have left? Because you said she has no more money. Is it her home? What assets does she have? She does have her home. She still owes on it. How much is it worth if you sold it? If she sold it, it would probably be worth$200 ,000. Okay. And how much does she owe on it? $75 ,000. Okay. What else? What else assets does she have to her name? Any investments, retirement, anything? She does have good retirement. She has like$30 ,000 annuity that she found that hadn't been liquidated.

1:51:04Rachel Cruze:$30 ,000. Okay. Yes. She has good retirement. She still received, my dad is deceased, and she still receives part of his retirement and his military retirement. Okay. How much is that per month? $6 ,300. Okay. Gotcha. But really she has$125 ,000 of equity and$30 ,000. Yes. Okay. That's her net worth per se without adding in all the debt. So how much debt does she have? Hang on. I've got that total right here. She has$145 ,000 in debt. On what? On just consumer debt?

1:51:53Yes, a lot of it is consumer debt. She let my brother use her credit card, two different credit cards that they maxed out. She took out a loan to remodel my brother's kitchen. She took out, and because she liquidated a lot of her investments, she is deep in debt due to her taxes. Is she of sound mind?

1:52:20Rachel Cruze:She is, yes. How much does she owe in taxes? She owes about$23 ,000. Okay. Yeah, she about cried at the text office. Yeah, I bet. It was very sad. I took her in and it was so sad. Yeah. So how can we help today? Because I can't solve years of family dysfunction in a call. I wish I could. But what can we specifically try to help with? I've been working on it all my life. So do I – okay. Well, she's not going to have anything to – Sorry. I'm sorry. I did not mean to interrupt you. You keep going. She's externally processing. No, you're fine. No, so, I mean, like, right now as it is, I mean, my mom does very little.

1:53:06And she does understand that she did do a lot of this. And so she lives off of what is left after she pays these debts, which is very minimal. Mm-hmm. But my concern is do I need to just start with the smallest amount and start knocking that down? She's got one very close to being paid off. One credit card is just about done.

1:53:37Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I mean, I would pause everything, Stacey, and focus on the IRS debt because they can put a lien on your— I mean, yeah, I wouldn't mess with that. So I would move that to the front. And so how much does she have left after she pays minimum payments to stay current on everything? And after she pays her bills, like her mortgage and lights and everything, do you know how much margin is left that she can throw extra at this tax bill a month? She pays extra. Oh, well, she pays a little extra on every bill every month. OK, so I would not do that. I would take her down to all minimum payments. OK.

1:54:16Rachel Cruze:So do all minimum payments and then anything extra after those minimum payments, I would throw at this tax bill. Is she on a payment plan with the IRS? Yes. Okay. So out of the 6 ,300, do you know, ballpark, what extra she has per month to throw at this? Like 3 ,000 or 2 ,000? No. I mean, like if you, well, I would have to break down her minimum payments. Yeah. because we've she's she wants to get out of debt so she's been adding extra to each one right but if I came down to it I would say she probably has somewhere around a grand or so I I don't know like when it comes down to it after she pays everything she has like two hundred dollars okay okay so but if we go down to the minimums I think oh I'm sorry um yeah I could yeah maybe a grants, but that would be two years to pay off those tax bills, basically, if you put everything to that.

1:55:15Well, she's paying$1 ,000 to state or$1 ,200 to state and$500 to, I'm sorry,$1 ,200 to federal and$500 to state. For the tax payments? Yes. Okay. Wow. Well, are you the only sibling helping right now with her situation? Yes. I have an older sibling who kind of helps, but she just moved back in with my mom.

1:55:42Rachel Cruze:So I don't know that that's going to be help. I mean, this is probably dysfunctional, Stacey, but did you go to your brother? No, no, no. Did you go to your brother and say, hey, pay mom back? She's$145 ,000 in debt because of your kitchen renovation. Yeah. Um, I have talked to both my siblings and I have tried to have family meetings where we can sit down and go over, you know, this, and I plan to still have one of those, but they're not budgeted. My brother has no, there's no way he can afford to pay off. Well, the biggest thing is to stop the bleeding. Have you, have you convinced your mom no more giving the kids anything.

1:56:24Yes. Close the credit cards. Have the credit cards been closed? Have you frozen her credit? No. I would do that with all three bureaus because I don't trust these siblings as far as I can throw them. Truthfully. Okay. So I would freeze her credit because this is boring on elder abuse. Well, and that is what I have told them. And there's elder abuse, there's elder law attorneys that you can contact to see what your options are, but this is such a bad situation where they've leeched off of your mom.

1:56:58Rachel Cruze:And the mom, and to her, she let it happen. And she's reaping the consequences, which is really sad at this age. Just know there is no inheritance that will be going around. You'll be lucky if her estate can pay the debts. I would almost would just cash out the$30 ,000 and take care of the IRS to get them off your back. You'll have$7 ,000 left, and you just kind of start throwing at that smallest credit card because she can live off the 6 ,300 that's coming in. But man, that's tough. I don't know. That's, yeah. But I think I'd get the IRS out. Yeah, that would be A1. And A2 is making sure that none of these kids get another dime and she doesn't let that happen.

1:57:49Thank you.

1:57:55People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money-saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the EveryDollar budgeting app a game changer. With EveryDollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. How much money are we talking? Well, the average every dollar budgeter frees up$395 in their very first budget.

1:58:28And if you ask me, I think you're way above average. So why are you still listening to me? Go download EveryDollar for free and start saving more money right now.

1:58:53Our scripture of the day, John 8, 12. Jesus said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of the world. Martin Luther King said, you don't have to see the whole staircase. Just take the first step. All right, let's go out to Morgan in Tampa up next. What's going on, Morgan? Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? So my question is, how do I navigate a super large amount of debt with also keeping up with my expenses, my mom and my late father's expenses as a three months after graduation full time employee? Wow, that is a lot going on.

1:59:44OK, so tell us about why you're covering your parents' expenses. so my mom she's disabled and she can't work from like past like 15 years and um a close family friend was helping before i was and then while i've been in school i've just um taken out a large sum of debt to come to help with those coverages for my mom and then my late father um i'm covering his expenses that he's left behind um everything was unexpected and he has an apartment i'm trying a binocelagist, it's been stuck for like a year on the market. And so that would help a pretty good amount. But it's, yeah, it's stagnant. Wow.

2:00:27What other expenses are you covering for him? So he has, my family's from Romania, and he has a property over there. So I cover, which is pretty low. It's like property taxes, his apartment here in the States, and, oh gosh, Just a bunch of hidden fees, like lawyer fees. He was in collections. There's all kinds of fees.

2:00:52Rachel Cruze:And he's passed away? Is that what you said, your late father? Yeah, that's correct. So these are charges that I've just stuck versus some that have just been wiped away. Well, debt at death usually goes against the person's estate. So have you contacted a lawyer or anything to get this settled out? because... I don't want you paying debt so you don't have to pay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't owe those. His estate will so you do need to sell these properties and even if the one in Romania is low, I probably would still sell it because you can't afford to keep all of this right now. Oh, definitely.

2:01:31Rachel Cruze:If you liquidate the property in Romania and if you low-balled offer just to get this condo out of here, what would you what would you walk away with? Do you know? I've been, you know, I've been working with a realtor and we've been going down and down on the prices. And I feel like my offer is pretty low. It's in a nice area. The problem is he has two or I have two step siblings that it would have to be split amongst us. And the amount of loans that I've had to take out student loans, I should mention it's like 120 ,000 at like 17 % interest rate. I haven't reconsolidated anything. So it's super large.

2:02:15And a lot of that comes from me trying to keep up with my mom and his expenses. So if I don't sell this apartment at like what it's worth, then I'm like not even covering how many like loans I had to take out to pay for this apartment. Does that make sense? Okay. What would have happened if you didn't take out all this debt to cover the expenses? It would be foreclosed by the bank. All the properties would be taken. Why have you taken on the burdens of the world onto your shoulders? Yeah, you could have just let that happen. Because you can't afford to do any of this, and now all the risk is on you because those student loans, all that debt is in your name.

2:02:55I thought – well, I mean the apartment isn't worth nothing. I thought it would sell quickly, and then I could help cover everything. I didn't think that I was going to be in such a big hole. And also when I was in school taking these loans out to cover my expenses, too, I didn't it just didn't dawn on me what 17 percent interest would do to that. And I also didn't understand that it was incurring while I was in school. I thought it would start six, seven months after I graduate. The yeah, the majority is private. And then there's like some federal, too. Okay. Well, a little bit of homework. You can go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey.

2:03:35That's our partner to help refinance these private student loans that are crushing you, and they can likely get you much better terms. So that's one thing you can do to get a little breathing room. But the overall thing is you can't keep covering everybody's expenses as much as you want to. So mom is going to have to figure it out. Is she on disability? What is her income sources right now? Disability. That's it. And how much is that? $800 a month. That's it. Is there any survivor benefits from your late father?

2:04:05Rachel Cruze:No, they weren't together at the time, so it didn't apply. And she's living with you? What kind of disability does she have? More like I'm living with her, and she's got a bunch of things. She broke her back like 10 years ago at a nursing home, lupus, fibromyalgia, just like bone pain, that kind of thing. and I'm living with her covering her expenses and she's also a huge hoarder which I've tried to mitigate her her spending but yeah well I think mitigate it we need a stronger word I think we need to remove her ability to spend if you're the one covering her expenses yeah you have to take over it's almost like a parental yeah you're in charge of this business now and you need to make any access to anything you're making sure her basic needs are covered and that's it yeah that's what i've been trying it's uh are you working morgan harder yeah i have a full-time job how much do you make 72 after taxes 72 after taxes okay and that's with working overtime which hopefully i can keep how much debt do you have total um so 193 and then if i mean if i take on my mom's house which like the mortgage and stuff it'd be like you don't want to 100 yeah no no no don't take on her house you're gonna go into a vortex of death yeah and it's not probably in a great state a state of like cleanliness no it's not yeah okay so don't okay so um okay so because we have a few minutes here's what i would do um morgan i would um i would probably move out of your mom's home and i would go rent an apartment somewhere i want you to to have a um you have to set up stability for yourself because everything around you is not stable.

2:05:52Rachel Cruze:Your mom has$800 a month coming in. I think you need to kind of figure out, okay, what's the minimum that she needs to survive? Not her spending habits or anything. What does she need for her mortgage to be paid so she doesn't get foreclosed on? And reasonable food budget and all of it. And I would manage that on the side and help her there. And then with your income, I would get this apartment sold. I would get the, and even if it's, I mean, I wouldn't take a loss, but even if it's like a, you only make 30 grand or something off of like, I mean, you, you need to simplify all of this pretty quickly.

2:06:30Rachel Cruze:And out of that, then you're going to have to work your way. Yeah. Out of this, out of this debt. And it's going to be a journey for sure. But I think you've done really amazing things, Morgan. I think you've tried to be the hero for so many people. And I think you kind of have to take the cape off and say, I don't have the ability financially to carry all this because you don't at all, at all. And what this is going to turn into is just you going to more and more debt, then you're unable to cover your own expenses, let alone someone else's. You have to stay afloat yourself before you can help people.

2:07:05What's the other 73 in debt? You said you had 120 in the student loans at 17%. What's the other 73? Car, the rest of the student loans that are federal. My car, credit cards. Yeah, that's a big one. Okay. What's left on the car loan? Eight,$8 ,000, and then$15 ,000 in credit cards. Are you still using the credit cards? Yeah. Yeah, I am. I would make a pact with yourself that you are done turning to debt to solve these problems because it's not solving anything, even though it's temporarily putting a Band-Aid on it for a couple of days, and then it's 26 % APR. And you're not going to be able to climb out of that.

2:07:48The balances are going to balloon on all of this, the student loans, the credit cards. So at$193 ,000, you're going to look up six months from now, it's going to be$220 ,000 while you're still taking on more debt. So you've got to decide, I'm done with debt. I'm done covering everyone's expenses. At some point, adults need to figure this out for themselves. And you can help your mom as much as you're able to and get the step-siblings involved. But please stop trying to carry this on your own.

2:08:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah, hold on the line, Morgan, and Christian will pick up, and we'll give you Financial Peace University. It's just the bulk of everything from budgeting, getting out of debt, and wealth building. And I want you to start that process. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:08:32Thank you.