You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems

29:15No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total. I want to say about$40 ,000. How much of that's your car? Well, to me, my husband's together. It's about, he owes, I owe$16 ,000 and he owes about$20 ,000. Okay. How much is the car? My car total with the insurance, insurance or just the car? No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car? About$16 ,000. Okay. Of your 40. So half of it's your car. So here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer. When you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off.

30:04That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else, and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple but hard. This is The Ramsey Show.

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31:34That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

32:05Thanks for joining us America we're glad you're here open phones at 888-825-5225. Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application, and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground, right? and I've had a friend of mine and offered to give me a loan to do this but I've been listening to you since I was 12 years old lost everything last year in a divorce literally everything and I'm wanting to go back up but I don't want to give up my entire percentage of my company in getting with a traditional investor and I really don't have access to traditional investors So I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also.

33:06So I'm just kind of curious what you might have on that. Okay. So remind me again what the patent is on. Okay. It's on a mobile application. A mobile application. Like a phone application. Like a phone app. Like an app for your phone. and why do you have to have a patent for a phone app well it's just it's just something new that is uh well i mean it's i mean you're going to put it in the apple store and you're going to put it in the google play store and people are going to download it onto their phone right right so it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before i mean you don't need a patent for that is it a copyright you don't need a patent for that no no he told me i couldn't copyright But basically it would make it to where somebody else couldn't redo that app.

34:00They couldn't make another, you know, because I've started the process to patent a process in the app. Okay, so how much are you spending to get the patent pending? So I've already paid that. Oh, okay, so you're done. I've already paid that. Okay, so why do you need money to launch something in the Apple Store? It doesn't cost anything. Well, in order to get the actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable product, and to build that. Oh, you've not built the app yet? No. You're patent pending the idea or the technology? No, the technology is not done. It's within, it's not. Okay, are you not a programmer?

34:55You're not an engineer? I'm not. No, no. I've been on my own since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've, but I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over. Okay, so all you need is the engineering done. Right. You need a software engineer, right? Mm-hmm. So what's it going to cost to turn this idea into an app?

35:27The lowest quote I've got is around$24 ,000 to$35 ,000.

35:37Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taken them down. We've got a little thing called the EveryDollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously. but we've also got tens of millions of people in it and all that. But even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So I'm just trying to think how we would do it, because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that. You said you've been listening. I don't want to give up. I wouldn't do it. What I would do. I mean, he'd even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan.

36:14No, don't take money from your free. No, what part of no? You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of those. What's your panic? Like, what's the – you feel panicked. Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn$30 ,000? Well, the thing is, yes, I have probably eight to nine months left of the status. My lawyer, he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially going to be 20 years protected, right? My uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but that's how he made his money. He invented, like, one of the largest crash compactions in the United States.

36:51And I've run by the seat of my pants in business. What do you – yeah, I know. I can tell. What do you – do you have a job? Yeah, I'm a truck driver. So I've always – I've got my CDL, and I've bought and sold three different semi-trucks. But I lost almost$400 ,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying$3 ,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. Um, I did have$15 ,000 in debt in that, but I've, okay, let me stop you. All right. Here's, there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation. Like you, you sound so desperate. You called it an application when you're talking to us.

37:35And it's not, it's like an app. It's a phone app for God's sakes. This is not rocket search. Right. And so, and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. it and all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid because every time i get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit that's about the time i'm about to do something dumb and i i can hear it on you i'm just being honest with you all right so what i would tell you to do what i would tell you to do is this i would tell you slow your butt down take a breath okay that's what i'm gonna tell you to do and then if you want to proceed with this The only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds.

38:27And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, you know, it's$24 ,000 worth of stuff, I'm going to pay you$48 ,000. The first$48 ,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out. and I'm going to pay you double. And then they're done. And the problem is as soon as you get the thing up, and here's what I'll teach you about apps, they're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. A hundred percent of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated. The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. the great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better so you're because you're not frozen when I print a book it's either good or bad I'm stuck with it it's on the shelf for the next 40 years it's a printed book when I put put something out in the digital world I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along and I will and so ever the every dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name EveryDollar originally.

39:39It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years. And so your software engineering costs have just begun, my friend, if this is actually going to work and be successful. Your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill. um you know the number of times that people steal something on an apple store is just not that big it doesn't happen much except the chinese steal and stuff right and and duplicating it but i mean i'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in and scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented um so you know it's you know i don't i'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea and of course here's the other thing as soon as you patent it you're going to iterate it and change it so then you got to update the dadgum yeah this is not i don't know i i so yeah i do know i would slow down breathe if you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them 2.0 what they're worth but they only get paid out of the proceeds and if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing.

40:56If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money, like John said, and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared. As soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade and iterate. Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey Show.

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43:15Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author. I'm the number one person, Dave. You're the number one person. That's it. I'll take it. Yeah, you're all of that. And number one show on the Ramsey Networks, not really, but a big show on the Ramsey Networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us, Thomas. What's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, John. What's going on? I'm calling today because I'm 18 years active duty military.

43:54Thank you. Unfortunately, thank you. Unfortunately, a couple years ago, life happened, and I ended up getting divorced. With that, before we got divorced, my ex-wife and I, we were completely debt-free, and I was able to contribute 60 % of my income towards investments. Holy! 40 % was going to my TSP, and another 20 % was going to my kids' college funds. Wow. but now that I'm divorced, I've been divorced now for two years. I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at$57 ,000 worth of debt. What in the world? What did you buy in two years? So I bought a vehicle on your baby steps.

44:37What kind of truck is it? It's a Ford Raptor.

44:46Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas. That's definitely part of it. No, it's the whole thing. No, it's all of it. Taylor Swift wrote a song about it. It's your divorce Raptor truck. We know what it is. It's called I'm the Problem. It's me.

45:03So I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly. What do you make? It's about$78 ,000 a year. You make$78 ,000 a year. And you owe what on the Raptor? I owe$57 ,000. Yeah. Well, I owe$37 ,000 on the Raptor and$18 ,000 in credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced. Okay. I still contribute the 60 % of my income towards my TSP. You can't afford to do that. You're broke. So I was thinking – so my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. however in the divorce my ex-wife decided to go ahead hey your whole military pension is yours I just want half the TSP I've still been contributing because in my head I was like I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get it when does she get half now 67 67

46:14What? No, wait a minute. That's not possible. This divorce isn't final, is it? It is, yes, sir. So when we went to court, I had several different options that I could do. And you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67? Yes. Not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there. That's not right. Something's wrong. that's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff they said that was the better of the deal apparently these lawyers didn't take math class that's a horrible deal um all right so you need to get clarification because i don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces i've never heard of this deal this is what you got It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her now.

47:15That is a normal process in a divorce, and she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes. It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67. Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP. Yeah, that would be normal. But half the TSP today, not at 67. Well, now with the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the TSP. Okay. Now or at 67? At 67 when it matures. Okay. then it should be half what how like you're half of your tsp how much is in your tsp today uh 166 okay so half would be 80 84 83 000 okay right yeah today so whatever 83 000 grows to at age 67 she should get but she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then right so that was going to be my next question is if i just stop contributing altogether you have to contribute listen if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your tsp regardless of whether you put money in or not that's the worst deal i've ever heard of in my life i've never even heard of you get half at 67 that's just very weird dude like like these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent weird okay but if you did do that you need to go back and clarify is it what half of it today becomes what 83 000 becomes at 67 or is it just half of whatever's in there because if it's half of whatever's in there you don't put another dime in it you're done with that you got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff, but the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next, you know, how many, how old are you?

49:35I'm 36. Yeah. Good God. For 30 years, you're going to contribute to her. No, thank you. You did the worst deal ever. So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man. I'm telling you that. I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. This is horrible. But you did the deal. I guess it's final. So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half, what$83 ,000 becomes, or if she gets half of whatever's in there. It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the$83 ,000 out. They should have just transferred the$83 ,000 out.

50:11That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did. Yeah, John is correct. It is whatever's in there later. Because I tried to fight and get the half now, but then there were like, okay, then here's what, here's what it is. She gets hat what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else. Cause you're not going to anything else. Do it. You're stupid. If you do. Okay. But you are the one that signed this divorce decree. So, oh my God, this is a horrible man. It's just horrible. 30 year claim on future earnings for you. Jeez. You'll have kids.

50:45We have two of them. I've heard a future. This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is. I've heard, and rightfully so, a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18. So if you were making$25 ,000 and suddenly you're making$150 ,000. That's child support. That's not this. That's child support. That's normal. That's what I'm saying. I've heard of that. That's normal. But half the 401K is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now, and it rolls out into an IRA, and then she does whatever she does with it. Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart.

51:20And your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney. So you have two reasons for a broken heart. So you've got to sell this truck, honey. And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them. But this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. Get your budget back balanced. and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

52:02The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt, and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account, and the new Ramsey Be Weird debit card that says, dead as normal, be weird, right on the front. It's not just a card. It's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money.

52:45Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan. Don't chase gimmicks or points. And partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

53:30Guys, student loan debt is an epidemic, and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, Y-Refi, refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate. You couldn't get anywhere else. So go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, my in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law. Abigail, she knows you wrote this.

54:16I don't know how mother-in-laws know, they just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. You have a husband problem. He's a wuss. God almighty.

54:50That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our stuff. Unsolicited. Go through our stuff. without your permission and even more uncomfortable as my wife said i need this to not happen again and i said i can't do it i can't do it i'm scared of my mommy oh my gosh abigail you have a husband problem he needs to run down to walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone yeah and some pampers while he's there because he might tt in his pants while he talks to mommy y 'all need to have this This is awful. Yeah, sorry.

55:28Sorry, sorry, sorry. This is awful. Mother-in-law is going to do what... Here's the deal. I think if... And maybe she's controlling. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how. She's trying to be helpful, and she's screwed up. Yes, and she doesn't think you're loving him the right way, but she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old, and he needs to grow up real, real quick. Yeah.

56:00So if you say a thing, you start a 10-year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone. And this is out of line. The boundaries are – there's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous. And it needs to stop yesterday. tell him you want the locks changed and you want him to talk call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this mom we love you thank you for the help you can't do this anymore i've changed the locks your key's not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore it's a real short calm conversation and he needs to man up and do that if he cannot do that you do not have a mother-in-law problem you have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor correct and by the way to husband listening to this you don't call your mom and say my wife my wife doesn't want you coming in the house no goober you be a grown up and you say i i messed up leave and cleave that's right leave your mother and father we need to figure out how to do these things on our own to your spouse golly dude and mother-in-laws don't break into your kids homes and do their laundry for them unless unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help don't do that even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help you still ask permission yes oh of course but i mean that's You show up with a key that you had before they were married.

57:42So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you heard this one? No. I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville. and the um the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine and so uh one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key went to the hardware store and got keys and the announcer said uh sheree is getting married next week anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her and like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her.

58:30So it was such a wonderful practical joke. But, yeah, that's much better than this one.

58:40This just makes me sad. Yeah, this is bad, yeah. And can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff, and it was a couple friend of me and my wife's, and we've known them forever and ever and ever. and they were going through some like just somebody passed away or something and i said hey let's get them a house cleaner just to come in and clean up and my wife looked at me and said are you crazy so what do you mean she said you know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house oh it'd be like an insult it'd be insult and so i've got to say mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex right it's a little bit of a flex and so it's like cooking the lasagna it's like the recipe you got for lasagna you're not taking care of my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of i'll come over and help it kind of feels like ray romano's mom like it's like your underwear was folded wrong that's yes i'm sorry honey i'll do it for you yeah and so yeah grow up mother-in-law flex this whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable david i never feel uncomfortable this one does.

59:50This is like, it's got a little stalker-esque spirit. It does, man. She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keebler's elves or something and cooks and does the laundry. No, because this kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. Y 'all have a great night. And it's just like a little... It's a total flex. But if you say anything, it's like, oh I was just trying to help I'm so sorry I won't help anymore yeah right martyr out yeah she'll definitely martyr the old uh oh okay um there's some there's some old dairy queen napkins in the glove box I'll just eat those y 'all just go eat wherever you want to um I'll just eat the old kleenexes um and I'll just sit in the car and be cold and when y 'all get done y 'all just come out it's that hey I did run into a guy that's opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go that's the because when everybody asks where they want to eat it's wherever you want to go okay we're heading we'll go right there there used to be a great little honky-tonk in lubbock texas called the library we'd be like where you going i'm going to the library all right the honky-tonk i love it all right boys and girls boundaries are necessary and I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control.

1:01:18It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown-ups even if they are from my flesh and blood and so that does not matter and I don't have any major issues it's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still, just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice, it requires a little bit of discipline. Yeah. Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career.

1:02:01And he's got to go through this first round of finals. studying the way he rolls his eyes and says, Dad, I know. Okay. And it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is the way. He's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, all right, I need some help. Yeah, that's right. And it's hard. It's hard when your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right. Mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now. Abigail. Back up. Back up. Abigail. Be cool. Be cool, man. She has to stick her nose into everything. It's the move stuff while we weren't home.

1:02:40Ah! That one's weird. Yeah, the furniture's rearranged. It's kind of like misery. Yeah, it's got a stalker-esque thing to it. The penguin always faces north.

1:02:54This is the Ramsey Show.

1:03:07Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

1:03:46Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

1:04:18And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years and so has my family. Don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

1:04:53Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help. We really can. follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching click subscribe or click follow it really helps our numbers big time and because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it hear about it it's the best promotion we get and also you share the show a lot of these uh apps and um platforms have a share button or a share feature and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it.

1:05:41I was listening to a podcast this week. A friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson. I said, hey, man, listen to this. And I sent it to another friend of mine, just like that. And Tucker's got a great podcast. It's going big. It's going Zoom Zoom right now. And so on. So I listened to one of Joe Rogan's. It was going Zoom Zoom. It was really good. I sent it. You know, just share it. Just do it. You know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out. He's got a determinal list. He's read every one of his. And so, yeah, I'm telling everybody, go get the new one. It's good. It's very cool.

1:06:08So Falcons brought me a copy of Jack's new book. Have you seen it? I saw that he signed it. And he shot it. Oh, I didn't see that. It's got a bullet hole in it. It's fabulous. If you don't know Jack, he's a former SEAL, and so these are all Navy SEAL books, and they're like shoot-em-up spy movie type stuff, and they're great books. Fiction, obviously. Yeah, but it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I may want to do that with my next book. I think that would be fantastic. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which his does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

1:06:41All right, Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. I'm calling today with a question I can hope, or I hope you guys can help me with. My husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill, and I was, I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at currently. So Hubs and I are like between baby steps five and six, I guess. Like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that like specifically this is child A, this is child B, there's their college fund.

1:07:25They're pretty young yet, three and five. We feel like we've got some time to - So you would pay cash for the solar. That's what we want to do. How much is it? For the solar. The unit's about$53 ,000. Okay. And what's the break-even on it? They say they have it calculated out, and we looked at the numbers. About eight years, we'd have it all back between, like, the ITC and our, like, state credits for Pennsylvania and SREC and those things. Okay. That's borderline. I usually look for a five - to a seven-year break-even, and um most of the time that you see that you're going to get that it's going to be in a area of the country that is um a lot of sun so i mean like you know a phoenix arizona type of a thing you're you know that kind of thing you're not gonna it's a little different than philly and not seattle you know that kind of stuff so you just think about what you got i don't know the technical parts what i do know from the financial side is i've been doing this for 35 five years.

1:08:30I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break even, meaning what do you pay for it? How does it, how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy? Thus, how fast it saves you money. I've watched the technology on that. It's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long, long way it used to just be total crap and now it's like i actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on you know and i'm fine to do that as long i don't endorse financing it obviously um but um but generally i tell folks a five to a seven uh your eight is borderline what i might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you that would get you down to the 40 ,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a seven year break even maybe they got you um you know with a convertible and power windows I don't know right right right but you know check that out learn about that that's what I would do if I were in this situation but uh I'd run one more company to have one more company come over and get a give a bid and see what they're saying that's a good idea we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75 000 down to 52 000 53 000 by pitting them against each other so we feel like we're kind of that's about where i mean i could bring in a third company but i feel like at this point you know if we've come down 25 000 almost that's a good start that's a good start they got some margin in that crap huh that's cool okay so i knew they were making bank but um uh yeah i'm a fan of the technology i'm not a fan of the you're not doing this but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go look your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill no that's dumb butt stuff because the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess you got a lien on your property you got all kinds of mess no do not finance them ever do not finance anything ever you're listening to Dave freaking Ramsey okay so but the uh but you're not doing that but that's for everybody else the the technology has come a long, long way.

1:10:42I will tell you this, Kathy, I think it's going to go a long way further. So like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap. Okay. It'd be like you had a seven-year-old computer or a seven-year-old cell phone. You know, how much further it's come along. That's the rate, that's the pace of change in the technology and so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house it's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today that's why i want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just you know what is a seven-year-old computer a doorstop you know that's what it is you know it's like what it has to boot up you know it's like you know where's the dos what is this what is this strange beach ball thing you know it's like you know so um i even handed one of our audio guys an old iPod that I found and said, hey, I want to pull the music off of it because I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild.

1:11:45But I said, I want you to fill it with old country songs. He looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds. Antiques. He's like, what is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. Fresh dog turds. Yeah, I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave. Our radio show. You're here too. There we go. Thank you. But yeah, it was strange. But hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. There you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good. How about yourself, Dave and John? Good. How can we help? Yeah.

1:12:20My wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have owned seven properties. One of them is my primary residence and then six investments. Three of the investment properties are paid off and uh we'll we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that i have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them you'd be a hundred percent debt free including my primary yes sir i would do that right now today yes yeah today okay i love real I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debt-free more. I agree.

1:13:01And we were trying to hold on to the not-sell properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children and the future. You'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see. How much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt-free and buy the next one debt-free and buy the next one debt-free? That's what I started doing about 20 years ago. And I've got quite a large amount of real estate now. I can ask one more quick question on the topic of real estate. Yes, sir. On the property, once they're out paid off, would you recommend I continue to keep the homeowners insurance?

1:13:36Yes. Because I'm in Florida, and homeowners insurance is through the roof. Well, it's not homeowners. It's fire and EC. It's not technically homeowners. Homeowners is for owner-occupied only, but fire and EC. You know, you've got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Ugh. It's super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go, How much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do? I wish you had insurance. Maybe. I don't know. I run a worst-case scenario through my emotional filters and see if I end up crying or not.

1:14:11This is The Ramsey Show.

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1:16:09Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Corey is with us in Washington, D.C. Hi, Corey. How are you? Hi, I'm well, thanks. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living, I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship, and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. And in the process, I came into her home with$50 ,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've since paid off. You paid off all the credit card debt and the car both?

1:17:00Yes. Way to go. How long have you been there? I have been here for six years. Oh. So I've paid that off, and I've saved, and I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was when I first started my job. Now I make$118 ,000. Why are you still there? Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for homes. I've been outbid several times by like$40 ,000. How old are you? $45 ,000. Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something? You're debt-free and you make$120 ,000 a year. You can rent something. Yeah. The rental's around here for a three-bedroom.

1:17:47I have three kids and myself. For a three-bedroom, it's about$3 ,000 a month. So at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially. So I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work and then the rents go up and the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? No, the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

1:18:31you're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do understood you probably won't be able to catch that that carrot and i don't want you being 55 and living with your mother i don't want your children graduating high school living with their grandmother yeah and that's the other thing i have nothing saved up for them to to go to school yeah but the point is that you have you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices. Okay. And you're not. So I get paid biweekly, and I get paid about$2 ,600.

1:19:17Again, my income just went up in January. I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. um so with that what can i afford because i keep looking at all these other bills um if i understood you right you're debt free and you have how much saved about six it's close to 60 and you make 118 000 a year and you have three children did i understand all of that right yes and you did all of that in six years coming out of a broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you. And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. Well done. Well done. You've really accomplished a lot here.

1:20:00And the thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that probably in the marriage and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in are both nicer than the home that you can afford now and you're having trouble with that?

1:20:24Probably, yeah. I've definitely looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I'm used to. The home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home? No. Okay. So the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in? No. And you're not damaged because of that? Yeah. I mean, I mean, this house is okay. It's not, like, fantastic or anything like that. Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. Okay. That's a point. Your childhood home, though, you might, and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the real estate channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna, okay?

1:21:10So I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life, whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property that lines up with all of your wants but does cover your needs. But I think you've set your... I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. And I'm going to pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. I think it's probably both and. It's moved the care out and the housing market has gotten tough, especially in D.C.

1:21:49I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market, making$120 ,000 a year with a$60 ,000 down payment, is probably not. I mean, D.C. is super expensive. You're going to be outside of D.C. You're not buying a place in D.C. proper. You're not buying a place in L.A. or San Francisco. So, you know, that used to be when you made$100 ,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. Right. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations, based on your fabulous progress that you've made, I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

1:22:31And Dave, this is like a thing I want to be emphatic about. there's going to be things you want to give your kids like she even mentioned i don't even have any college savings i don't have this i don't have this your kids can share a room your kids can put themselves through college your kids can do so much what her kids have that i don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom who's a warrior who is extraordinary yes the greatest gift my parents gave me was not college they didn't they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It wasn't any of those things. It was, I had two parents that always scratched and clawed and both of them had midlife career changes and I watched them flourish.

1:23:13And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids. And it's not something you can buy. It's something you witnessed. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford. And two of your kids can share rooms and they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path that's the greatest gift you can give your kids it just is all the other stuff's gravy the number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero there's a lot of kids i'm telling you right now i just had this conversation this weekend um in utah with the behavior services team there's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it, and then they go to college, or then they get married, and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something.

1:24:08Because somebody said, oh, the axis of the world does not run through the top of your little head. Who knew? I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met, and I've always asked them, just privately, shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do. Developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms, their own bathrooms, their own whirlpool tubs, so I have to make these single ones. But if I was the king for a day. You mean there's not a skylight? Everybody has to share a room.

1:24:39Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No. Yes, kids can share rooms. They're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So move outside of town. You've given them a gift, Corey. They can change schools. It's okay. It's okay. You've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then standing knee-deep in that manure and flourishing. It's amazing. And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just, I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers.

1:25:15So that's going to mean you either, that you change probably the neighborhood you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting. and it may be a long commute. It may mean a complete move. It may mean a lot of other things, but, and that's not to say I think that Washington DC real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsey show.

1:26:21We'll see you next time.

1:26:32welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the dr john deloney show on the ramsey networks he's my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry, sorry. We have been dating for four years, and we'd like to move in together, and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what your thoughts were.

1:27:15The date is not in your favor. Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project, and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income. And something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention the statistics around the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating? Four years. Four years? Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on? I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it, and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior.

1:27:59I would like to do it. It's just that I'm also heeding their advices. How old are you? My parents. I'm 25, 26 in a month. Okay. So if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents, even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast? I was just curious what your guys' opinions was You already knew Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say I started rattling off the data and you're like, yeah, I already knew that Right

1:28:30We both think we're very financially found, we've saved up a bunch of money so I'm just curious if that changes anything or no John, how old were you when you got married? Me? Yeah, 24 I was 22 yeah i've been married 43 years i'm 23 and a half i i think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them i do all the time i love my parents to death they're good people i respect john and i disagree with him sometimes yeah we disagree all the time not really and i'm usually right that's even not really

1:29:11let me take it this are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl yes sir okay at some point you're going to have to say as for me in my household yeah your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man my son they can only advise you right um so my next question and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do you still have to do what you want to do yes sir understood so we've got about six thousand dollars saved up i understand that you guys advise one month of income for uh engagement ring or rings oh in our area for like new york city and long island it's really expensive for rent uh we've traveled to a few cities um we we just we're other than like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses.

1:30:06Can we permit up to like 35 % where we are? We're both in the hospitality and entry-level positions. We graduated together with associate's degrees. Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. So, yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes, one fourth of your take home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, you're house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50 percent regardless of where you live.

1:30:50So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you but if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35 of your take home you got a bad formula it's not you're going to struggle with that one oh but they're in new york so all rents can be free from now on but they're going to be good yeah no too soon plus or minus the rats yeah oh yeah okay um uh and i'm not talking about the rodents but yeah okay yeah I don't know. No, Daniel, the math still has to math, even in New York.

1:31:35And so, yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began. People have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, you know, and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally, New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco.

1:32:15I mean, these are this is the list, right? Paris. These are very uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My wife and I, we are almost done with Baby Step 2. I'm 49 years old. and I was approached today at work to purchase a long-term care policy. Nursing home care. Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay you 4%.

1:33:04You don't need it. That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main? The main deal is this. Long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero okay we don't recommend buying it until you're 60 and if you're 60 and you got 10 million dollars don't buy it just self-insure just pay for the nursing home or pay for in-home care or whatever you're going to do okay but if you're you know you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years it's going to crack and scramble the nest egg Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75 % of the time.

1:33:46And so Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves Mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40. 49. 49. You don't need it until you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it. That's where I was a little hesitant. And I have a life insurance policy now, a term life, that's done, I guess, until I'm, yeah, at 75 it ends. I also have insurance through the military. Should I be purchasing any other type of life insurance? Well, life insurance you need about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die.

1:34:33And that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully they'll be gone. And so that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And so with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

1:35:33We'll be right back. call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:36:04so many years ago we came up with this great idea there were these new things on your phones called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it. And we developed, really, over the last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app, without a doubt. It's called EveryDollar because EveryDollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go, give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell.

1:36:48And have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So like you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step or what do I do there, what do I do there. and we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of EveryDollar. So the all-new EveryDollar, we just relaunched it the other day, and it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel and see how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get into the EveryDollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin, and then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the Baby Steps framework and the Ramsey way, so to speak.

1:37:43And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity. Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all-new EveryDollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you? Good, guys. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college a few years ago. So we decided to build a home, our forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in, my parents stepped in, me and my wife been blessed to have our parents by our side.

1:38:27They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they've accumulated some wealth over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house. And whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about$130 ,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working, about$120 ,000 in savings. I'm sorry. If you have$120 ,000 in savings, why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

1:39:08They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. I'm one of three brothers. Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out. Oh, no. No, no, sir. No, no, no. So what happened with the house? You bought too much house? What's the deal with the house? Yeah, so we're building. Oh, you're still building? Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. Oh, you just started building. Yes. So the deal was with them was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents.

1:39:41I work for them, actually. And this is what they wanted to do for us, and so we kindly accepted it. and any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And so I guess my question is, me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking of my kids right now. Do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and have fun in our early 20s? So do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel? That's in essence where this lands.

1:40:23When I say it that way, does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. Yeah. No. You did grown-up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house, and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Very good. the surest way the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you okay and i know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24 especially when you got two people who are like no it's no big deal it's no big deal just take it from two older guys clear the money between your relationship so that it can stay as good as it is right now i think i heard a two-stage deal here like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more Is that right?

1:41:10Yes. They loaned us the full amount of whatever it costs for the house we're paying for in cash to build. So they're not taking loan out from any. They've been completely debt-free since 2008. I know, but you now owe them a mortgage payment. Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money. Oh, my God. Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master. Yeah. Okay.

1:41:45That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife. Understood. So how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on? Probably going to be around$200 ,000 to$250 ,000. Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? About 50 % of the total cost to build, so about$200 ,000 to$250 ,000. So you're 24 years old, you make$130 ,000, and you've got a$450 ,000 house? Yes. Dang, Gina. Okay. That's a lot of house, dude. That's a lot of house. All right. Well, for sure, the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

1:42:32Yes, you need to take the$130 ,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. there. I'm going to put the$130 ,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage, and then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents. Okay. Because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest. I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of pay back and back.

1:43:06here's what I would say I can see myself working really hard so that I can bulldoze the path for my son and his new wife I get that but if my son was to hand me a check for$130 ,000 and say dad I've got this money saved up this is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here I'm giving you the rest of it I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son I don't want to stay one of your or like, I don't want you to be my banker, I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking the reins here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity.

1:43:46I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad, because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas, and your wife doesn't want to, and it's like, well, after all, it's just a recipe for disaster. But, man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And, by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. It's a$120 ,000 mortgage. It's a tiny, tiny, tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as you all make. If you don't go on trips. Yeah, if you don't go to Europe.

1:44:17And, by the way, you're – I don't know. Dave, trips are more fun when I'm older now. I don't know why. They just are. Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home. um but and in essence that's what this ends up being i don't have i don't have to increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips and so it's like borrowing on the trip borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip and obviously that would be ludicrous so moms and dads those of you that graduated from financial peace university with a better grade than that mom and dad got um uh which was an f um here's the rule okay if you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed.

1:45:06Great. Never make your child, your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were unintended, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a master.

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1:46:42Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Dima and Rhonda are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina. Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville, and good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? We paid off$266 ,192. Woo! How long did this take? Oh, my God. Four years and eight months. Golly. All right. And your range of income during that time? Our starting salary was$138 ,000, and our ending salary was$284 ,500.

1:47:30Look at you, too. What do you do? What do you do for a living? Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company, so I'm in the compensation role. Okay. I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well. Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks. For real. I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor. You ain't making$280 ,000. I'm also a professor as well. Okay, there you go. Very good. Good for you guys. That's awesome, guys. Thank you. Way to go. So what kind of debt was the$266 ,000? Yeah, so it was a car loan, credit card loan. And Dimas grad school.

1:48:10And student loan. I'm telling you right now. I know that. Absolutely student loans. Yeah. So my student loans were$150 ,000 and Rhonda's were$100 ,000. Right,$100, yeah. That's undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. Yeah. And so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution. And then I went on and got a master's after that. Why not? So talk about like piling it on. Yeah, piling it on. Okay. So how long have you two been married? Oh, this year we're celebrating 10 years. So halfway through five years ago, something happened. What happened? What set you off on this stuff? He decided to go get that last degree.

1:48:49And we were already, like, if you want to think about it, we were like 800 and something in student loans, just me, with Dima's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like, mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dima started school. and we're like, we cannot take on my loans, daycare, and then when Dima gets his student loans. We were scared. What's that going to look like? It just kept stacking up until it got scary. Yeah, it got really scary. Then what happened? What did you do? I mean, we're graduates of the Financial Police University, so I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps, baby steps.

1:49:29But when we realized what we're going to be under with all the student loans, we were just like, we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional. Time to get hardcore. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So you lean in. Yeah. And what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did? Oh, we started doing the monthly, monthly meetings talking about our finances. Hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash. And if it wasn't on our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it.

1:50:05um what would you say who's the spender

1:50:14let me say this he um for his birthday he um was like oh let's go let's get this car let's let's test drive it on his birthday we ended up walking away with a car so i would say dave after we got intentional that car we sold it and we were upside down so we're like but we can't and we made sure that anything else we had we were paying cash for as far as cars and that was really the testament that he was able to say hey i love the car but i want us to get us out of debt and sold the car being debt free was more more important absolutely y 'all made an incredible combined salary together both of y 'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y 'all drive up and y 'all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars no i you know we still own i have a 2010 Mazda.

1:51:04Yeah. It runs great. It runs great. It runs great. It's one of your mysterious compensation jobs. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, hey, we can't get rid of this. Like, you know, we're thinking about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? Definitely humbling ourselves and having faith in the process was a struggle, but you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient absolutely because you know what dave like we're all taught to like pay off debt but then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt and so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and four years i mean that's a habit pattern right there right right four years of doing nothing yeah basically but you know what one of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say what are we going to do and i remember our birthday we had a hundred dollars and so we were going to do with that we went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip and it's like we packed sandwiches we we everything was free and we're like wow and i'm like i'm still talking about that birthday so it's like be humble and you'll be surprised i think even dima made me a birthday cake so it was box but you know you know it was it was good and it was humbling to us there you go and dima can i tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner Yes.

1:52:25I've always wondered, if you want to do this scientific study, I'll put it on the air for you. I always wondered, if you're somebody in the helping profession, if you're a professor, how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say? Because you're not really supposed to say that, and I owe somebody money. and now the students that you're going to be teaching, they're going to get an unfiltered you because nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over your head. And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these clients of yours, here's the truth because I don't know anybody, anything, man.

1:53:05I can speak from here now. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt-free, just the freedom, if you will. Like you mentioned, Dr. John, I'm like that freedom that you have to kind of, you have that discretionary income, if you will. We're still working through the baby steps, but you have more freedom, and there's no one, there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay. That's awesome. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Thank you. We're proud of you. Excellent. Way to go, heroes. Thank you. Thank you. How does it feel?

1:53:37Oh, I mean, Dr. Don, you said it. It's just to not owe anybody anything. like we're like what can we do now it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back it's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're just like just ready and fired up about it it's refreshing like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a different vibe oh yeah and we can't thank you to thank you to oh my god Ramsey uh Ramsey crew yeah thank you all well Way to go, y 'all. We're proud of you. Thank you. This is one of the rare couples that they both married well.

1:54:18Y 'all both did all right. Thank you. Thank you. We won out in our marriages, but y 'all both did real well. That's awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done. All right. It's Dima and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina. $266 ,000 paid off in four years and eight months. Making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Let's go!

1:54:58I love it. Well done. Very well done. Yeah, I guess the number of things you can do when you have that liberty has changed dramatically, but particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck, so you can just kind of go, eh, here's the truth. Well, and you sit at the table, and this is how we're going to teach this, or this is how we're saying this, or if you have this belief, you're stupid, and if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go into the next thing. Got to bite your tongue, yeah.

1:55:38And so now, Dima's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man. Way to go, heroes. This is The Ramsey Show.

1:56:19Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck.

1:56:54So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead and you could even win$2 ,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is gonna pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at everydollar.com slash live stream.

1:57:27Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1.4, He comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe. Amberlee is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberlee, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, my husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes, and we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year. What kind of mistakes?

1:58:16Well, we were house poor. We bought a duplex that, you know, it's overwhelming. I mean, we pay about$3 ,000 a month, and we only make about$60 ,000 gross a year. So why would you wait a year? You're drowning. I know, we are. What is it you're waiting on?

1:58:48Well, I'm the main person who does the budget, it and I was just, for some reason it seems like we make, we do somewhat make a little bit more money by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. Like I feel like it would be better if we can move. I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not? well we we make 60 growth 60 grand growth and then um we also get 2500 a month from the other side and so i don't know i i know we probably should and we're we're do you not like being a landlord emberly no okay i don't solid yeah be honest about the problem i can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck yeah your sanity is not worth it yeah yeah and i am house yeah it is and we found out that our our tenant has been running the water um 24 7 and so sorry i'm just a little overwhelming being on the air sorry um it's okay you're good We've never lost a patient.

2:00:10You're okay. Yeah. And I want to, and we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but. Doesn't matter. I do want to get rid of it. It doesn't matter. It's not fun. No. Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun. No. This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse. Yeah. And TikTok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to... And now it's not fun. Now it's not fun. You found out TikTok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, should we put it on the market, like, next month?

2:00:58I mean, we're in the middle office. Yeah, Friday. Friday. Friday sounds good. Okay. I'm not kidding. Okay. I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this, even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake, I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it. I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done. Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me. Yeah. And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee you want to be.

2:01:34It affects every square inch of your life. You're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right? Yeah. I mean, if you had a house payment you could afford, you could breathe again. You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now. Yeah. It's overwhelming. I'm scared. Yeah. We can hear it. And it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. and so the thing is that the faster you act on this the quicker you're going to get peace yeah and peace is really our goal here you got plenty of time to buy a different house plenty of time to make different real estate decisions sell this thing and go rent an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit and then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate.

2:02:34You can do this. Okay. So go to RamseySolutions.com and click on real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate. Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up, Alejandro? Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water. No troubles. Yes, my question is, is it worth it to go to college?

2:03:17Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have, you know, my brother. He's basically studying in the U.S., and he's been going to college for basically eight years now, because he's getting his doctors. Now, he's a straight-A student and everything. And my worrisome is that his depth is five digits. So, no, yeah, it's five digits, basically. So he's going from, let's say, from$9 ,000 to$60 ,000. And the amount of depth that he's getting is ridiculous, right? Are we asking about you or him? How was that? This is more for him than it is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision. Right, right.

2:04:05But what I wanted to know is that like from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling you that like a degree. but they're only offering like$70 ,000 instead of the range that the college promised him. And that's kind of like, you know. What is his degree going to be in to continue the discussion? Sports medicine. Okay. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine? $60 ,000. Okay. And this is a four-year degree? This is, it's becoming eight. He did four, then he got his master's like two years ago.

2:04:53Oh, so he's getting a Ph.D. in sports medicine. Yes, yeah. Well, that's not necessary in that field. But the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college because, yes, it's okay to go to college. College is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace. The problem was your brother overdebt it. he got two more degrees than he needed to function in that, in that space. Or at least one more that he could afford. And if he wants to move up, then he gets his master's degree. You do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space.

2:05:33Yeah. Unless maybe if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something, they may want you to have a doctor by your name, but who knows? I don't, I don't even know the particulars of that, but the college is going to give you a range. And when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco, and New York to Nebraska. It's all over the place. And so don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, what does it pay in the area that I want to live? I wouldn't go to school eight years for a$70 ,000 job. I agree with you, Alejandro.

2:06:04That's not worth it. Absolutely not. And you can get lots of$70 ,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of$100 ,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome. There's a gap right now in the marketplace, and they pay beautifully. But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect, not a factual statement. That's not true either. That's not a factual statement. Getting a degree in stupidity, left-handed puppetry, or German polka history, and then thinking you're going to end up being anything but a barista is ridiculous.

2:06:40And so that's dumb. But you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad. That's just not true. No, the data is... My kid's going to go to college. Yeah, mine too. Mine did. Yeah, there you go. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:25We'll see you next time.