You Can’t Control the Past, But You CAN Control the Path Forward

30:25You like this? I'm selling that tonight. Yeah. And I'm going to take$6 ,000 worth of stuff out of here tonight. If you call the cops, that's great. Because they need to come get you. Because I would love the cops to know that you're stealing$6 ,000. Right! I mean, I just think you've got to be so difficult that he goes, this isn't worth it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't mind this behavior. Lauren, what do you think of that? That's all I got. I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to meet you where you showed up today. No, that's okay. I just wanted advice. You've got to make it worth his while to pay you.

30:58In other words, he's going, my life gets better the minute I stroke a$6 ,000 check, which, by the way, he probably doesn't have. Yeah, I truly don't think he has the money. I don't either. But I bet you he's got some stuff in that new house. Throw a yard sale in his driveway. Yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh, what a mess. I can't I cannot can imagine treating a family member my flesh and blood somebody I love that way I know it's just I'm sorry that you're going through that that that in and of itself is disappointing that a family member would do you dirty like that

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33:28all right folks you don't have to wait for black friday to get black friday deals the sale is on now that includes 12 best-selling hardcover books 12 question for humans decks 6.99 for audio and ebooks,$15 for assessments. All you got to do is go to RamseySolutions.com slash store, RamseySolutions.com slash store. Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. If I had time and I was really cranky today, I would go on a rant about the pre-Black Friday deals. Oh, I would love to hear you go on a rant, Ken Coleman. We've jumped the shark as a culture, maybe later.

34:06I don't understand. Next, it's going to be pre-Easter deal did you say we jumped the shark yeah you've never heard that phrase no yeah yeah i'll explain that one to you i need more i i get a little irritated with and everybody's doing it now ramsey's doing it we're all doing it i know it's like we gotta do it it takes away the cachet of the i just think called a really great deal yeah because it ain't black friday it's not even thanksgiving it was just october there we go folks that's a whole nother show So Oz is joining us. $6.99 is still a good price. It's still a good deal. RamseySolutions.com slash store, no matter when it is.

34:40Oz is on the line in Miami. Oz, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you? Good. Happy Monday. Yeah. Whatever day it is. Whatever day it is, it's right. So essentially, my wife and I, about two years ago, we bought a rental property, a townhome in Tampa, Florida, right? But we reside in Miami, Florida. We were both born and raised here. Right now, every month, the payment that the tenants are sending us is around$2 ,400, right? But the monthly mortgage that we pay is$2 ,800. So I just kind of wanted your advice on that just because the way that we were thinking of keeping the home, we're in between, right?

35:21Whether selling it or we're keeping it just because of long-term equity in the future. Well, let me ask a quick question. How did we get okay with you having a$2 ,800 mortgage on it, but only charging$2 ,400? So it was a brand new construction, right? And so the first year you pay taxes on the land. Second year you pay taxes on the first full year of the property being built, right? So then the taxes shot up from, I think it was around, they shot up about, geez, like$4 ,800. Just this year? Last year. This was last year. How come you didn't raise the rent? So we have a realtor that we're working with over there, right?

36:04The realtor recommended because of the properties around in the community to lower the rent because the first year was essentially$2 ,500. So then it all kind of made sense at that point. We were doing out of pocket$50 a month, right? Then the second year came around with the tenants. And then the realtor was saying to lower the rent just because all the properties around it, the rent went down. So then that's when the property taxes shot up to$5 ,200,$5 ,300. And that's when we went negative$400 something a month. All right. So the question is, did you get into this house to make a couple hundred bucks a month?

36:37Or did you get into this house to make more than that? We got into this house. Well, we moved over there because we liked the place. And then work called me back into the office in Miami. And that's it. That's what I want to stop on. You did not buy this house as a rental property. Right. You did not say, you know what? let's get into the rental game. Let's get into the landlord business. Let's go pick the perfect property for us to do that. You didn't say that. You defaulted to this because it was like, well, we're moving. I guess we'll just kind of keep it. Do you see why that's not a great plan for real estate?

37:10Correct. Correct. Yeah. So if you sell it now, are you underwater or can you make money? I will make about 15K on it. I'd jump on it because I just read an article a couple days ago. Tampa is one of the worst real estate markets in the country. Prices are dropping. Yeah, big time. Gotta jump on it. So I would get out now. Do you agree with that, partner? I'd take the 15 and be happy. Indeed. Because this is a headache gone, and you walk away with no financial loss, and you get to live and tell about it. Yeah. The longer you wait, that money could dwindle, so I would definitely. Yeah, yeah. And we actually just, you know, the worst part of the timing is we just, not the worst part, but we just renewed the lease with the tenants.

37:57So we got, you know, 11 months to go. Oh, okay. Obviously, you know, with, you know, contingent upon the tenants moving out or so on and so on and so forth, you know, we can potentially sell a house. And, you know, I was just talking to my wife about it and we're young, right? I'm 30, she's 27 and zero credit card debts, no car payments. Good. We have seven months worth of savings. You know, there is a truck that I want to get rid of because that's like five hundred and eighty bucks a month. I just don't need right now. Right. We make a really decent living for living in Miami. And I just the house is kind of causing not headache in the marriage or anything like that.

38:34Just our sense of peace for us. Right. Yeah. It's going to get out every month. And that's yeah, that's four hundred not including CDD fees, garbage bin fees, ADP security. So you were just losing money hand over fist. monthly exactly yeah yeah negative 730 is the exact amount every month how long have you had this property and been renting it we were there i've been we had it we've had it so far three years we lived in it 10 months so you've been you've been losing 730 a month for three years 730 the last fiscal year the last 12 months oh my gosh yeah for 2025 i mean do you see where there's no profit there because you're only going to make$15 ,000 for the sale.

39:19That's the type of math you've got to be doing to understand what you're in the business for. Are you in it for making a long haul on the property? Are you trying to make something off the rents? There just wasn't a plan here. When you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And I would roll my sleeves up with my realtor if I were you, and I would walk this whole lease thing out 11 months. Do you have any options. I'm just, because I'm going to tell you something, the market in Tampa is going down. I don't know what it's going to look like six months from now or a year from now, but you got 11 months.

39:51And so I would want the full picture of what every option, then can we be ready? And then what do we have to do if we have no options, Jade, and 11 months rolls around, what's our strategy? So I would get in control. So we're going to list this thing at eight months. You know, just don't let this thing happen to you, happen to this. And then one quick question, because I want to get it from a source, a Florida resident. What is the status of the no property tax legislation or idea by DeSantis? I want to know about that too. So that is still TBD. I know there's been a lot of hype around DeSantis wanting to go ahead and eliminate property taxes, but a lot of folks are saying, like, how are they going to be able to fund schools?

40:30Right, right. So it's not active. You know, I get all that. But I was just wanting to know, is it active legislation or is it just him throwing it out there? I mean, him throwing it out there, they are in the process of it, though. It's not active yet. Gotcha. Yeah, it's not active yet, but a decision will be made. Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, man, I wish we had better news for you. I would see what your options are in that contract. Read the fine print. See what your options are. If you have no options, have a game plan so that hopefully we move this house pretty quickly upon being able to sell it based on the lease situation there.

41:08because you just don't want to be stuck with that. And Jade, this is a great review. We have a lot of new people coming in all the time. This is a great way to kind of do a review of why do we tell people this story being example A, to not be long-term landlords. I mean, excuse me, long-distance landlords. Long-distance. Well, I feel like the first part is what we kind of highlighted, which is a lot of people get into that long-distance landlord game not by a thoughtful choice of this is where I'd like to buy a property and be a renter. It's, I used to live here. I got a job, I'm moving, or maybe you're in the military and you're hopping around.

41:41So it's just kind of like this default, well, this seems convenient. And then you're, you're far away. It's a pain in the butt. If the person is not, you know, paying your, you know, in this case, he wasn't, I mean, he was almost a state away, Tampa to Miami may as well be a state away, but it's very hard to manage things from long distance. And you did not pick a property based on mathematics, based on doing any sort of spread. You just kind of ended up that way. And nine times out of 10, those are the ones where they're causing the most amount of stress. They're causing the most amount of, you know, loss of money because they're not covering it.

42:16And so it's just got to let it go. Simplify a simple, a simple life, Ken. Yeah. And low risk, right? You know, you talk about the Florida real estate market, you know, it got overheated. It sure did. Before you buy something, then you should be paying attention, talking to those grizzled real estate veterans who've been around. They may not look grizzled, but they've got experience. Their weather in Florida, they're sunbeaten. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they know. They've been around. Yeah. They've seen real estate cycles. You've got to know this stuff so that you don't put yourself in a high-risk situation.

42:50Because a lot of people go, well, I got the house. Let me just rent it. Now I've just made my portfolio a reality. And it's just not that simple.

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44:42Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. Glad you're with us. isabelle is joining us now from wisconsin isabelle how are you today and how can we help i'm doing all right today thank you for asking um i i guess i have a weird situation i make twenty thousand dollars a year and i work at a bar and restaurant my boyfriend and i well he owns it but my rent is connected to that salary that I make. My vehicle is connected to that salary that I make. I feel like I'm kind of a hostage in this situation. Sweetheart, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to.

45:30This sounds like scary manipulation. $20 ,000, first of all, is below the poverty line. Let's start there. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. And then after your rent is coming out of that, and after your car payment is coming out of that? Is that right? He's paying for those two things? He bought my car, and I drive it. He maintains it. Within reason, I suppose, I still have to do the major stuff on it. What kind of car did he buy you? It's a 2014 Honda CR-V. So not a real luxury item here. How much did he spend on it? No, I don't expect that. No, I know. I'm just trying to do the math here.

46:17How much did he spend for that? He bought it for$8 ,000. Exactly. So he bought you an$8 ,000 car. That comes out of the$20 ,000. So he goes, now all I have to do is pay her$12 ,000. No, I still make my salary is$20 ,000. He bought me the car, and my rent is kind of included without having to pay for that salary of$20 ,000 a year. Okay, the way you worded it, I thought it was coming out of the$20 ,000. So you're making$20 ,000, period. That's it. Why would you stay at it? How old are you? I'm 28. Why would you stay at it? I'm going to be 29 there in December. What's causing you to stay at a job that's paying you$20 ,000?

47:00That's not a living wage.

47:05I feel like I'm barely making it by. Yes, but what's causing you to stay there? Of course you're barely making it by, but what's causing you to stay there and not go for another job? Because my point is you could go to Target and make more. Or Walmart and make more. I don't have a Target around me. Uh-oh. Now, Isabel, don't start making excuses. Answer the question. What is keeping you? Well, let me ask another backstory question. Are you living with him? Sure. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we've been dating for three years. Okay. When did the bar, when did the, okay, hold on. When did the bar job happen?

47:48When did you start working for him? About four and a half years ago. What were you doing before that for work? I've always been a kitchen person and now I'm kitchen manager. For his bar. And is his bar, is it struggling? Is he just scraping by as well, or is it doing okay? Is it doing well? What do you know? He makes$7 ,000 in a weekend. Okay. We don't talk about finances, to be honest. Okay. And does he pay for all of your – he pays for everything except for a little bit of spending money that you have from the 20s. Is he covering all your bills, or are you covering other things? No, I'm covering other things.

48:34I'm in debt$3 ,500 because I was trying to help my mom because she was a single mother. And it's complicated, but... Okay, well, your whole situation is complicated. How old is he? He just turned 40. I had a sense of that. I'm not a relationship expert, nor am I going to try one, but I think this is a manipulative relationship at best. And I think that you think you can't do any better. You've been making$20 ,000 a year for four and a half years, I'm guessing? Three. For three years. What would happen if, tell me honestly, what would happen if today you said to him, hey, I'm not going to work at the bar anymore.

49:19I'm not making enough money. I found another job and I'm going to take that job instead. What would happen? Well, we've had that talk before and he would kick me out. I would no longer work there and I would have to find another job. Okay. So there it is. Yeah, we got a weird... This is... That right there, Isabel, I knew that that was the answer, and I just wanted you to say it. Do you think that you can stay with somebody like that that doesn't want you to get ahead and be able to stand on your own two feet? Do you think it's healthy or safe for you to be with someone like that? I mean, not entirely.

49:53I guess what I really am trying to do is work my way out of my debt and... But how can you? He won't let you earn any money. He's controlling you. Yeah. Okay, now here's the answer. Isabel, here's the answer. The only way you work your way you're out of debt and stay in this abusive relationship, because that's what this is. 100%. Is you're working a part-time job. Based on what you've taught us. Oh, no, I don't work a part-time job. On salary, I'm 90 hours a week. No, it doesn't matter. You're working 90 hours a week to make$20 ,000 a year. That's what I'm saying. Isabel, I'm trying to help you understand.

50:28There is no way to work out of this. and and jade and i and anybody on the randy show is going to tell you there's always a way to work yourself out of it but there's no way to work yourself out of it in this situation where you're working 90 hours a week you are an indentured servant look it up that's what this guy's got you turned into you're basically working for your livelihood meaning uh he's just going to give me rent he got me the eight thousand dollar car he's got you underneath his thumb and there's no way for you to get out of this other than you break up with this guy you have to and you go work you go get a good job and you start over well i want to i want to flip the script on you in a couple of ways what did you think we were going to tell you if if because you said you know i really need something i'm going to call these folks on the radio what were you hoping we might tell you i guess i really didn't know yeah so uh we're on your side thinking it for a while and uh I guess I maybe just needed some reassurance or something.

51:31Listen, I'm going to tell you right now. We love you. We do. We want the best for you. You can't stay with this guy. No. You cannot. He's not going to let you get ahead. He's controlling you. And it's tough because he's 40 and you're 28 and you've been with him for three years. And it seems like he holds all the power and all the cards because right now he does. but that doesn't mean that you can't go out and get yourself a job and get ahead. I think that this, it's like you're under a glass. I got to say this, Isabel. You've been with him four and a half years. Did I hear that right? Well, I've been working with him four and a half, but we've been together for three.

52:09I'm sorry. But that puts you at about 25 years of age, and you've had to help your mom. You went into debt three grand to help your mom because she's a single mom. And my guess, there's this abuse that runs in your past. And I think you're terrified of becoming your mom. So this guy at 40 years of age, as manipulative as he is, he represents safety for you. That's what I think is going on. And I'm going to recommend that you. Maybe, yeah. No. It is. It's exactly what's going on. And I want you to go to some friends and family that love you and ask them if you can stay with them. You get yourself a new job.

52:45Let's get on our feet financially. Go see a therapist. That's your homework assignment. But I think you've got to break up with this guy or I need to take a break. And you need to see yourself. You don't have to do a full breakup, but take a break. Let's leave. Go spend some time somewhere else and maybe find a job. Not maybe. Find a job where you can make some money. Let's see what life feels like on the other side of this because I think you've gotten pulled down. And if you've got any money that you can get a therapist with, go see a therapist and get a real professional opinion on this.

53:29Hey, y 'all. You know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays. And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi. From fresh produce to holiday favorites and charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all. and at prices that will help your family save big, up to$4 ,000 a year for a family of four. So do what I do for my family. Shop at Aldi first to save on groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday joy. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

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54:30Hey, folks, if you're enjoying the show and it's helping you and you think it'll help others, would you help us help them? And you do that by liking, subscribing, following, sharing all of the buttons. You know how they are. And so whether that's podcast, YouTube, however, We'd love for you to share the show, and that helps us spread the good word. Alice is up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Alice, how can we help you today? Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. My question is, does it make more sense to contribute money to a spousal Roth IRA or continue doing what I'm doing, which is currently setting money aside in an emergency fund?

55:14and other expected expenses such as vacation, maybe a future car purchase, etc. My husband's going to continue working for about another 10 months to 12 months. Okay, so this is you planning for retirement? Yes. Okay. How old are you guys? I'm 65. My husband is 64. I retired in 2015. to take care of my mother. And then I took care of my sister who had early onset Alzheimer's. And so I've been out of the workforce for quite a while. Okay. And so tell me what you guys have so far in retirement. um together we have about 1.5 million um in 401ks 403bs roth and my husband has a tsp okay and is there anything else tell me about your other assets do you own your own home do you still have a payment tell me about that our home is paid off our vehicles are paid off my car is a 2012.

56:29And I don't have to have a brand new car. That's not my thing. I'd rather not have a payment. But I know that I might have to purchase a car in the future. So that's one of the things that I plan on setting money aside for as well. Okay. And otherwise, we have minimal credit card debt. And we pay groceries, utilities, cable, internet, our phones, and that's pretty much it. Okay, got it. What's the homework worth? What's the home worth? In our area, probably about$350 ,000. Okay, good. Now, what's your husband work? You said he's working 10 to 12 more months. What's he earn? He currently earns about$80 ,000 annually.

57:19And so we've worked really, really hard to pay down debt. and I've been doing the spousal Roth contributions and I've currently stopped. I don't always have the money to do that. But my thinking was, does it make more sense to contribute to the Roth since he's going to be off work in about 10 to 12 months when he retires? Or do I just keep putting money away in what I do? And I know this is probably something that you're not going to agree with, But I have little envelopes, in other words, little buckets, and I put money aside for an emergency fund. I currently have$10 ,500 set aside in the emergency fund.

58:03Okay, good. And then if things get better in Israel, that would be kind of our dream vacation is to go to Israel. Okay. So we're starting to put money aside for that. Okay. You know, I'm not mad at that. I'm guessing he's continuing to contribute on his end to a Roth IRA as well. And so the spousal, you're kind of like, do we still need it? I like the idea that you've been saving an emergency fund because you do need some liquid money. We would suggest six months of liquid money. It's just good to have there so that you're not having to pull things out of investment for emergencies and things like that.

58:42I'm not my my my framework on this would be you need to be investing at least 15 percent of the income that's kind of where we sit if you're investing 15 percent whether it's in Roth IRAs spousal IRAs 401ks wherever you choose everything else from there on yeah if you want to save up some more for vacation if you want to have a little if it makes you feel comfortable to have a little bit more cash money I'm not upset with that you guys are doing really really well 1.5 million in retirement, a paid for$350 ,000 home. I don't think that you can mess this up at this point with the couple of thousand dollars that you're talking about here.

59:22Yeah, I agree. Question. Question for you. So the 1.5 million or so, I felt really comfortable with that. But for the last almost five years, things have gotten so much more expensive. And I would like to leave a little inheritance for my kids. You will. You will. Okay. And let me explain that so that you'll understand it. So you've got 1.5 million here. Let's pretend that the interest on that is about 10, 10%, right? That's the compounding growth that's occurring. You could pull$150 ,000 a year from that and never touch the nest egg, essentially. Does that make sense? Which is more than what your husband earns now.

1:00:04He earns 80 ,000 a year. Okay. So you'll have more than enough to continue to live. Plus, you both will receive Social Security, or at least he will. Do you see what I'm saying? So there's definitely plenty of wiggle room there. You will have plenty to leave to your heirs or anybody that is going to be a beneficiary on this. another question so the money that i have in the little buckets um i keep it's not invested i keep it at home in envelopes in a safe and you might get mad at me there but should i be putting that in a high yield savings account like my emergency that'd be great to do that no i'm not going to lie to you i keep i have cash i like having cash that i can get to uh and i also keep my main emergency fund and a high yield savings account but that's just because i'm a real ken you don't keep any cash in the house okay you don't keep any cash in the safe okay you're asking i'm just saying i i like to be ready like i got it i'm like on jason born i've got the passports and the cash right there i'm ready yeah i just know there's ain't much you can do about it you could have all that cash and the zombies will still get you.

1:01:24Oh, my point is... I don't worry about it. My point is, Alice, if, you know, the$10 ,000, I would definitely put that in a high-yield savings. If it makes you feel better to have a little bit of cash on hand in the house, that's totally fine as well. The other thing is, like, people come knock on my house, try to take stuff and go, you walk into my shoes. There's a decent amount of money there. But... Me too. There's no safe. I know, and I just said it's live on radio. What's that? I just said it live on radio. That's all right. They don't have your address. It's okay. We haven't told them who you are.

1:01:56You're going to be okay. But the answer is yes, your money is safe. I feel it's very safe. Put it in a high-yield savings. That's the best place. Why not get the money on that? It's just sitting there in those envelopes. And so, yeah, that's why we do it. But I love how methodical you are, Alice. I just love how she's just been thoughtful about putting it in the envelope, put it to the side. And you guys are going to be fine. And I love how you walked her through the real numbers there. You know, I think people need to know when you go, what's my number? In other words, what's the nest egg, the retirement nest egg, where I feel like, and I love the exercise where you walk through.

1:02:32And by the way, run the numbers. Yes. Run it on a 10%, run it on eight, run it on six, run it on four. Right. Run it on 10 and then take out 4 % for inflation, right? And then all of that is helpful to see it. Just run those numbers so that you can see what it is you need and you make those adjustments. But you guys are going to be fine. I'm not worried about that at all. But you for real do the whole safe thing? Look at my face, Ken Coleman. Okay. Well, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. I think that, now don't get me wrong, it's not any, you know, I'm not going against the baby steps. I still do all the things that the baby steps say.

1:03:09It's just in addition to, I feel good knowing, you know, something goes down and you just need to get to, this is, you never hear me spin out like this, but something goes down and you just need to get to the airport and get out of the country. Right. I'm going to be ready to go. You are ready. Yeah. You've got, you've got a little, you got a little pack bag in the safe. It's all there. There's no bag. It's just the documents in order. Gosh. Oh man. I'm also the person though that when I go out of town, I text my brother and I'm like, here's where the wills are. is here's where like i i i just prepare in that way yeah well now our whole family knows that if something were happening to say say i travel and we've got a spot for that i get that but in your scenario where you've got to get out of town you realize everyone else is at the is at the airport so the only thing the cash does is is put you at the front of the line for coffee because you're offering more money it's a disaster by that point

1:04:12Thank you.

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1:05:56All right, Jade, the all-new EveryDollar is here, and now it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help make faster progress with your money. I want you to imagine going on EveryDollar after going into your App Store or Google Play, and you get in there and you spend about 12 to 15 minutes answering specific questions. and then right away, like you were on the air with us, you get recommendations on where you can save money and it's several thousand dollars. Imagine that. And imagine that you got one of us always on call. That's what this app is.

1:06:34It's a game changer. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in the first 15 minutes. It stays with you. You are with it. It is a perfect partner. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. It will absolutely be a game changer for you. Ashley is up next in Indianapolis. Ashley, how can we help? Hi. So I'm a realtor. So my commission actually goes through an LLC we just set up. But I have a savings account where I've been putting my salary in, but it's been really sloppy this past year. So I really wanted to kind of get clear. We're on baby step two.

1:07:14So how should I be using that salary account? Should I put in six months and dwindle it down and replenish it every quarter? Or should I have a full year salary in there before I started attacking the debt? Oh, I see. Okay. So are you the only, is it just you or you said you're married, right? I am married. Yeah. Okay. Does your husband work? He does. Okay. What do you bring in a year and what does he bring in per year? So this year I'm bringing in$130 ,000 and he's bringing in$40 ,000. Okay. So what does it cost on annual basis? And we can look at this monthly. Let's look at it monthly. What does it cost on a monthly basis to make your household run?

1:08:00$4 ,000. $4 ,000. Okay. So what I would be doing is, since you know that, it sounds like whenever you get a big lump sum of money, you're throwing it in savings and you're just kind of filtering in your portion of whatever makes the household run every single month. Is that right? Sort of. So all of my commission goes into the LLC checking account. And then I put in what I know I need to get paid for the next couple of months, which is$2 ,000 a month. And that goes into our personal account. Okay. And then you're trying to understand, okay, with the rest of it, can I go ahead and start paying off debt or how much do I need to keep aside?

1:08:39Correct. Yeah. Like I should do like six months and then replenish it. Well, how about we come at it? Or if I should do a year. What if we come at it a different way? How about you tell us how much you have in savings, or excuse me, in the LLC account right now? Right now we've got$13 ,000 in total. Okay. Okay. And how much debt do you have and list it out for Jade's smallest to largest? Cool. So smallest to largest, we've got five in school loans, seven in a motorcycle, 21 in car, and then 22 in credit cards. Okay. A few more questions about that. What's that motorcycle worth if you or he were to sell that today?

1:09:23Ooh, he rides it an awful lot, so I don't know. It might be worth five. Okay. You notice I said if. I get it. And it's such a small amount. You guys could knock that out so we don't have to get rid of it. Okay, so, Jade, you've got a picture of the debt right now. What do you have in the pipeline as far as home sales? So I have two that are pending past their contingencies. That'll be about$13 ,000 in the next 30 days. And then I also have five active listings. So we're looking at maybe 20 more thousand. Okay. Okay. That gives you a better picture. Yeah. You've got 13 coming and then maybe another 20 ,000 in active listings.

1:10:11And there's already 13 there. I probably, if your husband made a little bit more money, I might pull this number back. But if I were you, I'd want like two months there. Does that feel right? two months in the in the account to know that i'll be okay yeah so instead of 13 you said 2 000 a month is what you pay yourself so she's saying 4 000 four or five leave okay leave five let's say five and that gives you eight to put towards debt that's what she's throwing does that feel like and then on a regular occurrence that five if it goes down you're always replenishing it to where it's always five you're you're paying yourself your monthly amount plus there's always five in the contingency account.

1:10:54Does that feel good? Okay. So more like an emergency account. Yeah. But I don't want it to be confused with your emergency fund. Because this really just is, it's kind of like if you have any other sole proprietor, you just want to make sure, hey, there's money coming in. I understand my income is very fluctuated. We would call this retained earnings in entree leadership land, right? And so, But what we're also trying to do right now is we're trying to coach you up on what you can do with the 13 that's in there right now and make some headway. You've got a$5 ,000 student loan that you could knock out immediately.

1:11:30Done. And how much money would that free up in payment? Oh, 50 bucks. Okay. It's still 50 bucks. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah. Which is great. And then the next month, my goal would be to knock out this motorcycle. Yeah. Okay. That's 12 grand. over two months. Can I be honest? I'd sell the motorcycle. Well, I was going that direction. I'd take$2 ,000 so that you're not upside down, and I'd sell it. That's what I would do. But you said he rides it a lot. That's the only reason I, you know what I'd do? I'd challenge him. Yeah. Yeah, I'd challenge him to go get a side hustle. What does he do, by the way, for$40 ,000 a year?

1:12:08So we actually live in Anderson, which is like a smaller market, but he is in training to become an electrician. So he is going to skyrocket. gonna crush it okay you know what for that keep it that's where i'm at i yes joy i mean excuse me ashley sorry sorry sorry uh ashley i think he keeps it um and it and you guys go all in on this and knock this knock this out but i knocked the student loan out today i'd cut a check for five grand as soon as i got off the phone yeah that's gonna feel it's gonna leave eight in there jade um and it's gonna feel real good like that's a massive momentum yeah and then put the other three on the motorcycle.

1:12:45That cuts that in half, essentially. And then the next month, so that means in December, the whole bike will be paid off. And now you guys will be setting yourself up to work on the credit card debt. Now, is it one credit card for$22 ,000 or is it littler ones? No, it's, there's two. Two. Basically split in half. Okay, so, okay, great. So yeah, I would work on, right after that, yeah, now you got one$11 ,000 card and the next$11 ,000 card. you guys are going to go so fast like this i love it i love it how what's your anticipated timeline for him to start making the money as an electrician um i think he's due for a raise in six months but about a year is when we'll actually know for sure when he'll get in there i think you guys if you really get after it i mean you're going to be a long way down the line here on paying off this debt by the time he comes into some really nice money i think you're going to be done by the end of the year.

1:13:38Yeah. Because I think you're killing it on real estate. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the more of this for not having it done now, that's all right. It takes a minute to get the bearings on this. Listen, we're not playing armchair quarterback and looking in the back and looking in the past. Ashley, this, you guys are a great young couple. This debt is very manageable. I'm so proud of you. The thing that made me smile, by the way, Ashley, is when you told me what was in your pipeline, you know, great five houses sitting out there. Let's see if we can stack two or three more on top of that. That's a beautiful situation for you.

1:14:11And if he starts side hustling, yeah, mark my words, in 12 months, you're going to be out of debt. He's going to be, you know, increasing his income greatly. You guys are going to be, it's going to be looking good for you. Right. Well, thank you guys a whole bunch. Yeah. You're in great shape. Head up, right? Super excited. We're going to put you on the spot before we let you go. What are the chances, Ashley, that you cut a$5 ,000 check today to pay off that student loan? 102%. Whoa. That's what I'm talking about. That's like a nice birdie puck clap right there. I think that's fantastic. I love that.

1:14:49You know what I love about her? I love when people get it. Yeah. She said 102%. That means it's happening, Ken. I think she's cutting the check right now. That is. That's great. Boy, that feels good, doesn't it? Describe for people from a person who, with your husband, you paid off half a million. What is it going to feel like to her? Describe the feeling for somebody who's yet to do it. Oh, boy. It's like nothing else because it never comes back. It's a stress that never has the ability to come back in your life again. It's wonderful. Deleted. Deleted. From the deleted files. Yes. Evaporated.

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1:17:21Today's question is sponsored by Y-Refi. If you've tried everything to fix your defaulted private student loans and nothing's worked, Y-Refi can help. They'll build you custom fixed rate plans based on what you can actually afford. Learn more at Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It's not available in all states. All righty then. Today's question comes from Catherine with a C in California. She says, my husband and I make a combined income of over$250 ,000 a year. We have no debt other than our mortgage, which we're on track to pay off in two years. We follow the baby steps, budget every month.

1:18:01We have college funds set up for our two daughters and are intentional with our money, Jade. Here's my dilemma. I love Christmas. And for years, we've only bought dollar store or thrifted decorations that don't last. I'd like to invest around$1 ,000 in quality Christmas decorations for our home that we can use year after year to build memories with our girls. My husband feels like this is frivolous and not aligned with our financial goals. But it's something very important to me, Jaden Ken. How do I approach this conversation with him in a way that honors our financial goals, but also makes room for meaningful spending?

1:18:45ah I'm just so mad that this is even a struggle you guys have done so well with your money you've been so intentional this thousand dollars that really is a one-time expenditure because she's saying can I spend a thousand dollars one time get some quality stuff yeah this is not going to derail anything that you're doing in your world no you could put the thousand dollars out the window and let it blow away and it's not going to change anything in your world well I'd want to know i wish she was on the phone because i want to know how much she spends every year that he's supposedly okay with which by the way he's not okay with she's married to ebenezer scrooge on this deal he doesn't care about christmas decorations he just doesn't care yeah right here's the thing here's the thing let's talk about this because you and i are both married there are things that sam warshaw will get excited about spending money on that in my mind it's like this is so like unimportant or i i personally it's not my thing i know i know the story about his halloween outfit the man bought a ninja turtle costume straight off the movie lot straight off the movie but he sold some stuff we talked through it he did it the right way he did but my point is that is just part of being married is there's things that you gotta let it go get your spouse like oh because he's responsible about it and this lady is responsible so the point i was making is let's say what do you think she spends what do you think she spends every year on the cheap stuff oh at the dollar store she's probably spending like 15 20 dollars just getting some little doodads and stuff i think she you know you got to sit down with him go go babe this is actually a very small amount of money in the grand scheme of what we do uh i'll bet she spends about 100 to 200 bucks a year so if she goes look a thousand dollars for really nice stuff it's going to get us five years worth of stuff.

1:20:27We don't have to spend much at all. You just got to speak the guy's language to one degree. But at the end of the day, you got to pull the wife card and go, hey, you know what? We're doing great. We've suffered in sacrifice to be able to pay this house off in two years. Listen, Sparky, I'm putting my foot down. That's the part, because I don't think she needs to spend a whole lot of time explaining why this isn't very much money. I think the guy knows math and I think he knows that this is not a lot of money. He doesn't care. It's just not a value to him but he needs to understand that it's valuable to her yes yes happy wife happy life man you know you gotta turn the lights off at the end of the day so let's make sure i know do you know what i'm saying certain battles aren't worth the fight ken i you're talking to me i just want people to know i'm giving out advice that i actually follow uh can't say what's on your mind you know i'm about ready to say it i know what you're thinking stacy has bought into the what I call the great candy inflation.

1:21:22And in our neighborhood, some several years ago, we discovered some houses are giving out full-size candy bars. I have a fundamental problem with that. I do too. I think that you're a teenager, you go buy your own full-size candy bar. You don't get it at my house. We're giving away free candy, you get the junior size. I just think it's too much luxury. These kids have no hardship in their life. I know, I'm off my lawn, but guess what? she thinks it's okay and guess what's happened the last three years papa sat back full-size candy bars i'm handing out this year as i sat on my front lawn with the fire pit and here i am handing out full-size milky waste and having a bad attitude the whole time but what did you understand that allowed you to do it that it makes stacy happy boom and so therefore it needs to happen boom and i can afford the full-size candy bars you could have thrown them a budget item you You could have thrown them in the bonfire.

1:22:18I could have burned them. I almost did for principal's sake. I kid. I ain't ever going to throw a full-size Milky Way away. By the way, I did a little Mr. Coleman tax. Did you? Before the kids got there. Oh, always. I had myself a Milky Way. You should have seen me sitting in the front. The whole thing. Waiting for the kids to show up. I went ahead and had myself a full Milky Way. Wow. Underrated candy bar. It's okay. It's not my favorite. Just saying it's underrated. You and I know what the dealio is. we know about the Butterfinger and the Payday. Butterfinger's the best candy bar in the world.

1:22:50And I agree with you on that. Joy is up in St. Paul. Joy, you're never going to get that much of your life back as we talk about candy bars. But we're here for you now. Fantastic. I was wondering if there's a Halloween version of Scrooge that we could call you, Ken. Oh, good call. Yeah, is there a grumpy Halloween movie character? I think they're all grumpy, actually. I'm thinking of Adam's family. But you know what? But truth is, Joy, I've gotten past it, and now I just go with the flow. And the kids go, wow, when I hand them their full-size candy bar. So good for you. Okay. How can we help you?

1:23:25Fantastic. Okay. I am working a full-time job right now that I sort of like and a part-time job that I love. And I am burnt out, and I need to make a change. And I've been doing this for about a year, and I'm just over it. So I think that my two options here are to, number one, quit the part-time gig that I love and just do the full-time thing that's more stable that I don't really like. Or I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a job offer come in at the end of this week for another part-time thing that will be in the field that I love so I could do the two part-time things together. Interesting. Ooh, this is pretty simple, I think.

1:24:07are do both part-time jobs pay the same more or less than the full-time yeah if i was just doing the full-time job the two part-time jobs together is very comparable to what the full-time thing is okay and if i heard you you love both part-time jobs i know that i love the one the other one you know i haven't done it yet so i'm not 100 sure but you know that's okay but you know that That's up to you to determine in the job interview. And I want to tell you, Joy, that the job interview is for you, not for them. So many people think that we're always trying to impress everybody else. Pick me, pick me, love me, hire me.

1:24:46And I think the job interview is more for you to go, do I want to be picked by you? And so it's certainly important in this situation that you don't take this second part-time job unless you know that you know that you know that you've got a good picture. of what this thing's going to look like. And that's asking questions like, describe this job every day and every week. How much does it change? When it changes, what's it look like? Another fun question to ask the interviewer is, describe a year from now, if I'm crushing it and my annual, and you're saying, Joy, you crushed it. What did I do?

1:25:26People don't get asked those questions. That's a great question. And you need to put it on them and just sit back and smile and keep asking those questions. Now, let me ask you another question very quickly. Are you in the full-time job because you just needed the income to pay off debt? We don't have any debt. We're in maybe steps five and six. But I did need more income because we do have a mortgage. And I wanted the full-time job because it's more stable. I've been looking for a full-time job for three years and just kind of piecemealing together part-time, 1099, contract stuff. So that's why I took the full-time job.

1:26:03All right, but the point is you guys don't have to have the income. It's nice, but you don't have to have it. Or we have to have it, yes or no? No, we need more than what the part-time job can give me. All right. So my point is, I would go with the two part-timers if you do what I tell you to do and you ascertain through the interview process that this is, in fact, a great part-time job. Now, I've got two part-time jobs and I say sayonara, out. I'm out. No longer doing the full-time job that you don't love. It's very simple. Okay. We keep the income, but now we got more joy. Pun intended there.

1:26:41I did that on purpose. I couldn't help myself. You did a good job. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, you're a smart, smart lady. I think you know what to do here. So do your due diligence. And if the interview feels right and it's a good thing for you, go for it.

1:27:23welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio alongside the fabulous jade warshaw i'm ken coleman excited to be with you all the phone number for you to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five kelly is going to join us now from syracuse new york kelly how can we help? Hi, thank you so much for chatting with me. So I have kind of a loaded question with a complex thing, but I'll just give you the basics up front. I am 37. My husband is 35. We have two boys. One is almost one. One is two and a half. We have been working on baby steps. um we've probably got about 80 ,000 or so left um and uh other than that we have no consumer debt it is all um either student loans or we owe my mother-in-law a little bit for helping with taxes but um just this last week I got diagnosed with um brain cancer actually and so this I'm just trying to like get a grasp on like what what should we prepare for um right now we're on medicaid and so um a lot of our medical bills are covered but there's some um fertility stuff and stuff that's not me colored covered and i feel like we're always kind of teetering on the are we going to qualify for medicaid this year or not and so just what like where should we start my husband and I as far as like...

1:29:03Kelly, you are... Can I just tell you, the way you started off this call, I would have never guessed that you were about to tell us that. You are an inspiration. I am blown away by your spirit. So I wanted to say that. I wanted to say that our hearts are stunned for you. However, I'm inspired by you. And I think you're going to beat this. I am blown away. So first of all, just know that we're going to walk with you on this, and we're so sorry that you're facing this. The Medicaid issue, what is your income? What is your combined income? Because that's the income. It's income-based, am I right?

1:29:42That's right. Yes, it is. So my husband is an independent contractor, so he can write off quite a bit. and so that is you know he can write off trucks and tools and miles and all that stuff so that I think has kind of kept us in that Medicaid so what does he do for a living? I want to say he builds custom homes he's the actual home builder the general contractor no he's not the general contractor he works for somebody okay and what is he and I understand don't give me the fancy tax answer what's his income in a year? I want to say we probably take home five grand a month. Okay. So what's that, 60?

1:30:32Yeah. Well, that's net 60. And it sounds to me like the Medicaid, you really need the Medicaid, but at the same time, I never want somebody to stay in an income bracket just to get government benefits. Totally. No, we know that. We don't want to do that either. Can you tell us about, and I'm not trying to get too far into it, but with your cancer diagnosis, what are they saying? Is this something that they can go in and there's a surgery? Is this something that's ongoing? Do we not know what the future looks like? So this was literally Friday. We have like six appointments in the next two weeks coming up before Thanksgiving.

1:31:21We're meeting with all kinds of doctors. So you don't know yet? All of the people, yeah, we don't know. The understanding that we have so far is that it's not in the greatest spot, but surgery could still be an issue, but there's probably going to be some type of treatment. We just don't know exactly what that is yet. Well, high level, here's what we would tell you, that right now we're pressing pause on the baby steps and we're stacking cash. So this is what we would tell someone if they knew a baby was on the way and we have unknown expenses. So it certainly falls in that category. So you press pause.

1:32:02Do you know off the top of your head how much you've been putting towards debt a month? i want to say so we are in kind of a uh lucky i guess i'm going to say lucky situation right now is that lucky and bad we moved in to my mother-in-law's house to take care of her who has a version of parkinson's so add that on top of this wow so we are currently we have a house that we have good friends who are just renting straight from us. And you're not paying for your current living. You're not paying the mother-in-law, correct? Correct. We're not paying for her. We're not. That's great news. But I want to come back to the reality of where we stand as a Friday hit us.

1:32:52What were we putting towards Baby Step 2 total? What were we putting in payments? I want to say$2 ,000-ish. Great. Yeah. So that's the idea. The idea here is we're stacking up as much cash as we can. Keep that same intensity that you were and put that money aside because the long and the short end of it is your husband may be missing days of work. There's going to be days of takeout. There's going to be you possibly hiring a cleaning service. There's going to be needing other help with the mother-in-law since you guys may not be able to help in the same ways that you were. Right. There is there's a lot of and I don't say this in the way that you're a burden, but there's a lot of inconvenience coming this way because you guys must deal with this.

1:33:36And so having the extra money set aside to where it's not a financial problem or struggle is going to give you guys so, so much peace while you're busy getting well and, you know, recovering from this. And so that Ken is exactly right. so as part of that like it there's a couple of like small questions um he has a truck that might be worth 20 000 um i'm not sure if it's quite that much um we do own our house if we sold it we could maybe walk away with 50 000 and um so as far as those two are those things we should consider selling. Should we wait to see all that happens? I would definitely hold on the house.

1:34:24Don't do anything in the house. The truck, though, does he, what would he make if he sold it for$20? What would he make on it? We paid it off. So we could walk away with$20, but we need to sign something. Oh, I see what you're saying. I wouldn't. Nothing's on fire yet. Yes, you guys have the debt. You're covering the minimum payments, no problem. You have the$2 ,000 of margin. I get wanting to really go hard at this, but let's, I mean, like you said, this is still so early. Let's go through the next series of appointments that you have coming up. Let's get a little bit more information and you can call us back too, Kelly.

1:35:00As a matter of fact, do. As this goes, call us back. Okay. And that way we can help you keep planning. All right. We only have about 50 seconds. Hit us super fast. That's fine. Go ahead. We owe my mother-in-law about$5 ,500. She's a little bit salty for her paying for some of our taxes. Should we work on paying that back as a minimum payment? No. It's storm mode. And you're doing her. This is the same one that you've been taking care of, I think. Yeah. So you're doing her a solid. She did you a solid right now. Let's call it even. That's exactly right. Hold, hold, hold. Everything we're focused on is taking care of you.

1:35:39Doing what the doctors tell you. Fight this thing. And I'm going to tell you something. Kelly, your spirit is going to serve you so well. Keep that chin up. I'm so blown away by your spirit. What a phenomenal lady you are. We're praying for you, Kelly.

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1:37:21All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Jason is there. Jason, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. So my dad owns a small electrician business, and he wants to buy a$90 ,000 truck for his business so he can use it as a tax write-off. Sure. We hear that all the time. He's never been adverse to going into debt. Okay, that's a good note. So he's never been adverse to going into debt, and he thinks that if he gets this truck, he will not have to pay taxes to the government, and he'll be able to take that money and just put it into a truck that eventually he'll keep.

1:37:57Right. He owes from last year in his taxes, but I think that's the result of him making a little bit more than he thought. It wasn't like he was not paying or anything. Right. So he he owes and he's expressed that he doesn't even need the truck. He just doesn't want to pay the taxes. 100 percent. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard this before. We've all heard this before. And it's such a it's such a weird mental trade off where people go, wait a second, I'm going to spend money, my money in order to pay less taxes. And we think that's some sort of a good deal. And I can't even imagine what a payment is on a ninety thousand dollar truck.

1:38:39Yeah, because he's going into debt for it, correct? Correct. Yeah. So you've got to help him. Dad, you're going to spend, I'm going to guess it's$800,$900, maybe over$1 ,000 a month. I have no idea what he's going to put down. That's a world that I don't even know, so I don't even know how to estimate. But it's going to be a big chunk that he doesn't even need. So you've got to kind of go, Dad, you just told me you didn't need the truck. That means you don't need the$900 a month payment. and you're doing all of this because you like the way it makes you feel because you're paying less in taxes, it's just such a weird financial trade-off and it never makes sense when you get it all out on paper.

1:39:21But in your head, with no one else pushing you on it, it seems to make a lot of sense. Jade, you've heard this more than I have. You've coached people through this. I mean, back in the day, when my mother-in-law did our taxes, she was telling us to do the same thing. You got this money sitting in the business. You need to go do this, you know, spend it. Well, my bigger question is before we even get into all the odds and ends, will your dad listen to you? That's the real question. If you tell him, hey, dad, listen, going into debt to avoid a couple thousand dollars on taxes is not the move. What would he even say to you?

1:39:59Yeah, I mean, we've talked about it and And I think he takes my opinion into consideration. What's the numbers? By that, I mean like, oh, sorry, what was that? Did he tell, when you told him, when he told you the plan and you spoke back to him, what were the actual numbers? How much is he going to save specifically? That's what I want to know. And does he even know? Right, yeah. Yeah. And that's like something that like I have a computer science background. I'm pretty good with numbers. What I'm not good with is the tax code. So that's really like what I've been having a hard time figuring out what is deductible so that I could give him like a factual number of how much he would save.

1:40:44It's not going to be over$90 ,000. I can tell you that. That's the point. The point is he's going to put$90 ,000 on his name. He's going to add that in the plus category on his side. And I can guarantee you the savings is not going to be as such. That alone, does that make, I mean, I don't need to tell you that, but do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, I guess what he's. Yeah, I guess it's like with the tax savings, it could be around 20 to 30 grand that he saves. And and so like he'd still have like a$90 ,000 truck that he paid 60 to 70 for. So I guess that is like a huge luxury. Like you don't need that.

1:41:30um so why would he have only paid 60 to 70 for the truck he's paying 90 000 for the truck right i just feel like if he like i don't and i don't know you're saying after the savings after the taxes yeah yeah no point of it no part of that makes sense he's he's spending money but he's not making any money per se because he didn't even need the item to begin with that's the that's the equivalent of me just being going to the store and being like well I bought this thing it was on sale usually it's this but it's 50 % off so I just got it for 50 % off but it's like yeah but you still spent$60 ,000 that's essentially what he's doing is he's saying I can get a truck for 30 ,000 for for 30 % off no I don't need a truck but I'll just get one anyway that's the equivalent maybe if you explain it to him like that it'll help him understand but um I have a feeling he might do it anyway.

1:42:27I think so too. He can punch in the numbers. I just did a little, I mean, this thing is all over the port. Well, first of all, if it qualifies, as many full-size pickups do, it's the GVWR, over 6 ,000 pounds. So if it's over 6 ,000 pounds, you could potentially write off the entire$90 ,000, but it still doesn't qualify in something that we'd recommend because he's going into debt for it. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. If he's flush with cash and he's just, you know, but going into debt for a tax deduction, but then there's also scenarios where he might only be able to write off, you know, Section 179 deduction limit for 2025.

1:43:14He might only be able to write off$31 ,000. So he needs to get with a tax program. Yeah, find out more about it. If there was a situation where he was paying cash, yeah. If you're paying cash, sit with a tax pro. But if you're going into debt, this makes zero sense. Agree. I would agree to that. I would agree to that. All right, Jason. I wish it were different. You've got your work cut out for you. Fortunately, it's not your life. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, run the numbers. If he'll listen to you, run the numbers and show him on paper, right? And just walk him through it and go. And you, by the way, you got to make it simple.

1:43:47So you're going to pay this much over the life of the loan. OK, you're going to pay this much per month. Yep. To get this savings. All to get this. And you already owe the federal government taxes. It's got to be super simple. You can't debate emotionally. You can't say things like this makes no sense. The Ramsey people say this. None of that's going to work. It's got to be real numbers. And even then, to your point, Jade, somebody goes, you know, I'm going to do it anyway. I mean, we've all been guilty of going to the store. We didn't plan on getting anything. but we see that it's 40 % off and we go, well, that's a good deal.

1:44:25And I, you know, I haven't put anything on a credit card in over a decade, but plenty of us would swipe a credit card to get the thing that we don't need simply because it's 40 % off. That's essentially what's going on here. Yeah. And we do it even if it's not debt, if it's debt. I mean, I'll buy stuff sometimes that I walk by and I go, well, that looks nice. And then I see the deal on it and I got one that feels nice. Yeah. I don't need it. Yeah. But the point is there's levels of how irresponsible that looks. It's one thing if you had cash. That's right. It's one thing if you needed the thing.

1:44:55Right. You found it on sale. You paid cash. Great. You got the saving. Next level is I didn't need the thing, but I did spend my own money and I paid cash for it. That's me. That's debatable. It's debatable. Then the third tier is I didn't need the thing. It was on sale. I bought it and I bought it on borrowed money. That's when we're getting into Dumbo territory. And by the way, this age old argument that we've heard on the show a million times, it's all rationalization. So I want people to understand that what's happening here with Jason's dad is it's rationalization. I don't need the truck.

1:45:30Probably doesn't even want it. But it might be a fun toy, but I can justify it if there's a good cause attached to it. So we don't even run the math. We don't even think of the logic. You say the word taxes. Taxes. It's a good cause, right? because people hate getting taxes. You feel like you're sticking it to the government. Right. And you're really not. Right. You know? You know what I mean? And here's one for you. What's the tax? What are the taxes on a$90 ,000 truck, Jade? That's what I'm saying. It's high. You're paying taxes? Yes. Yes. I hate to be like sticking it to you over there, Pops, but you know, you're paying taxes on that car as opposed to just holding on to that cash.

1:46:11Right. And can we talk about that for a second? How about getting current with your current tax bill? I love that. Love that idea. That's fantastic. Item one, Jason's dad. Let's go ahead and get current on what we owe the IRS. Oh, boy. Last time I checked, they are not fun to deal with. No. No. Yay, yay, yay.

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1:47:53All right, question for you folks. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? Well, if that's you, you're not alone. Maybe you've made the changes and had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional. That's exactly why Jade Warshaw wrote her new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It's the very first Ramsey book that takes an honest, deep dive at looking at the emotional side of money. And it's going to give you practical tools to make progress for good.

1:48:26You can pre-order it now for the fabulous price of$24.99. And when you do that, you get over$100 in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book, early access to the e-book, instant access to the exclusive video where Jade teaches you. It's entitled Your Financial Checkup and then exclusive three-week online book club plus live Q &A with Jade. So how do you get all that? Pre-order. You pre-order it at RamseySolutions.com slash store. That's RamseySolutions.com slash store. Got to give you a quick word on it. Why should people buy this? Because Dave gave you a plan for your money, and now I'm giving you a plan for you.

1:49:08the part that's causing you to not work the plan for your money. That's it. Okay. I like it. There it is, folks. It's a plan. It's a proven plan. Just like you had the money proven plan. This is a proven plan for your emotions. Boom. Done. Yeah. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Go get it. Let's go to Susan, who is in New York City. Susan, how can we help? Yes. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. So I'm a 69-year-old divorced woman that has four adult children in their 20s. I own a home worth about$780 ,000 with about a$380 ,000 mortgage left on it. I have only about$5 ,000 in credit card payments that I have left.

1:49:56I my question is is that I would like to build a little detached mini house I guess a small tiny house for me to live in off the side of my house which I can do as like a senior living situation and then I want to rent out my three-bedroom two-bath house for about$4 ,500 and I have made an apartment also downstairs for another$2 ,000 that I could rent out and then I would live in my tiny house. How do you feel about doing this for my end of life retirement plan? I don't like it. I don't like it either. Why? Because it's A, requiring you to go into more debt in order to do it. That's thing one.

1:50:41And it's requiring you to be a landlord in older age because it's like you said, this year. Yeah, I'm a contractor. I've been a contractor though. So, you know, that part is easy for me. What do you mean? I'm a general contractor. Okay. How old are you? I'm 69. 69. Okay. I've been a contractor for 30 years. Yeah, but to Jade's point, this is not a know-how. You know how to do stuff. Totally impressive. It's just a function of, is that something that you want to lock into? What happens when you can't physically do it? It's not the know-how. You've got the knowledge. But as you age...

1:51:50your home plus the bedroom in the basement or whatever. And I think you gave us about$6 ,500 a month in rent that you believe you could get. Did I get those numbers right? That's correct. Yeah. Okay. What do you owe on the home? So$6 ,500 is what you're taking in. What do you owe every month? So about$2 ,800. So the mortgage is$2 ,800. Can I just ask a simple, because there's a solution here that I'm just wondering about. Why wouldn't you, the mortgage is$2 ,800 a month. Why wouldn't you stay in the three bedroom, two bathroom part and just rent the apartment below? Oh, that's just not going to give me enough.

1:52:28It's just not going to give me enough money. Okay. So let's solve a little bit more of that because then you'd be paying$800 a month for a mortgage, which I don't think you're going to live anywhere cheaper than that. No, that's a fantastic number. So let's talk about this. So you've got this house. I'm going to hold it to the side for now. It's worth$780. You said you owe$380. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. So you've got some nice equity there. You've got only, the only debt in your name is the$5 ,000 in credit cards. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Is there any money? Is there any other debt anywhere?

1:53:05No. Is there any other money anywhere? No. You have no savings? No savings. And what are you earning right now? Because you said you're a contractor. I would say roughly only between, say,$50 ,000 to$60 ,000. Okay, about$60 ,000 a month. No, no, a year. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. You're right, a year. And what's your Social Security? Very little,$800 ,000. Nothing. $800 ,000. Okay, so that's nothing there. And you have no retirement accounts at all? Nothing. So I think for you, I didn't want to say this because I was hoping that there was a way to get to it. I mean, I can ask realistically how many more years you plan to work.

1:53:53Probably, I would say eight to ten. Eight to ten. We could do something with that. Yeah, we got to pay this credit card off. We're going to do that immediately. Yeah. And then from here on, we've just got to start stockpiling. We've got to start stockpiling retirement. That's what you've got to do. Because if you can work for 10 more years, we can turn this around a little bit for you and forego selling the house as long as possible. And that would be my plan, would be for 10 years, I'm going to save as much of my income as I possibly can. I'm going to rent out this lower apartment, and then I'm going to look up, And in 10 years, I'm going to reevaluate.

1:54:35Can I keep this house? And can I live off of what I've stockpiled here? Or do I need to sell this house? And by then, hopefully, it's grown in value a couple hundred thousand dollars more. Okay, so my ultimate goal is to keep my house for my family, my kids, you know, so this is the only way that I could think that without, you know, that that that would work. Well, I appreciate that. And I want to keep the equity of the house for them to, you know, they're not going to, it's going to be very difficult having four children that are, you know, in their 20s to buy a house these days. And so really that's why I was thinking that this plan would be something that would, you know, possibly enable that to happen.

1:55:20Well, but Jade's, did you understand Jade's plan? Jade's plan allows you to keep the house. Yeah, because if you think, let's run some real numbers here for a minute. let's say right now what are you making around 4100 bucks a month roughly yeah okay so let's say you rent down the rent out the downstairs apartment so you're paying 800 a month uh in mortgage let's say you picked up some other work somehow some other things that you could bring in some money if you could get to the point where you're putting away two thousand dollars or $1 ,500 a month into retirement. In 10 years, that's$400 ,000.

1:55:57That ain't bad to have that at 79 years old. And you could draw some off that. Right. And suddenly that's not looking so bad. When you say draw, you say draw some in what way? Well, I'd want to, I'd want to see if there's any way that you can for sure off the growth for, so maybe 10 % and work with a SmartVestor Pro to say, what is this? How long is this going to last me? What can I take from this to where I can take from this until I'm 85 or what have you? 95. And I'd work with a SmartVestor Pro to get that number. And then that's buying you time of not having to sell this house. That's right.

1:56:35Because if you can live off that nest egg, that's another day that you get to keep this house for your family. Yeah, I get that. You see what I'm saying? That's my main goal. Yeah, no, that's my main goal. Or listen, here's an alternative. and we're trying to get you some retirement income of which you have none. But if you decide not to do that and go with your plan, I would at least wait and pay off your credit card debt and I'd save up the money for the tiny house if you're going to go your route. Don't go into debt is my point. I love Jade's route. It's the route. We've got to think about your long term while you're healthy.

1:57:05Because your social security is going to pay for the rent so you could easily live off two, invest two. That's what I would do all day and not go into more debt.

1:57:29We'll see you next time.

1:57:43Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate.

1:58:15That's RamseySolutions.com slash real estate.

1:58:33Our scripture of the day comes from Luke 11, 9 verses, excuse me, verses 9 and 10. So I say to you, ask and it will be given you. Seek and you will find, knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. The one who seeks, finds. And to the one who knocks, the door will be open. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan, we can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone. All right. Sadie is up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Sadie, how can we help? Hey, so my question today is, should my husband and I pull out our retirement to pay off the last of our consumer debt? No. Okay.

1:59:15Okay. So we're on maybe step two. We paid off$12 ,000 as credit card debt from selling property. And we have$39 ,000 left on a vehicle, and that is our only vehicle. And so we were thinking, you know, to get out of debt right now and to be at a better point, should we pull that out? Do you understand? And if you don't, it's okay. We'll explain. Do you understand why we both said no in unison? I believe so. Tell us. Well, no, you tell us. It's always better if you get it without us having to explain it. Why do you think we said no? Well, I mean, it's already invested. It's already in the works and you have to pay penalties as well as taxes.

2:00:04You got it. You got it. And can I just say, there's no shame in your game. We're not judging you. I love that you've had it. Yeah. And this is all a result of having it. It's excitement to get debt free. We want to pay it off today. Yes. And we get that. And we've both been there before. But you guys have done so much. How much money have you paid off in debt to this point? I'm going to guess the$18 ,000. Okay. And you did it in one fell swoop with the land sale?

2:00:37Oh, we lost you. I was on the vehicle already. All right, we lost you. Are you there? Yeah, well, we are. We're not sure you were on that one. We could hear you. Go ahead. I'm here. So we paid off$12 ,000 on the property and roughly$6 ,000 on the vehicle already. Good. Okay. And what's your income together? So I don't work. I'm a stay-at-home mom, and my husband makes about$60 ,000 before taxes. All right. Tell us about the$39 ,000 car. What is it worth if we were to sell it private sale? So we're underwater, roughly$10 ,000 on it right now. Okay. Well, that's the other reason why you wanted to dip into the retirement, because that feels even worse when somebody's committed to something.

2:01:19So if I were in your shoes, what would happen? I mean, if you really wanted to get out of this fast, I'm not saying you have to do this, but if you really wanted to get out of it fast, you could say, okay, we're going to save up a quick$10 ,000 maybe and then get a loan for the other$10 ,000. So you get out of the car and then you have$10 ,000 to pay for a cash car. So now you have$10 ,000 of debt plus a$10 ,000 cash car. How quickly could you save up$10 ,000? I mean, probably within 10 months, 12 months. 12 months to save up$10 ,000? I mean, with you guys side hustling, he picks up extra work, you're working at night, you're doing something from home.

2:01:58I'm talking about when balls to the wall, how quickly could you do it? Aggressively, probably six months. Okay. This is as excited as you were when you first called about getting rid of this and going to any extent, even, you know, pulling out retirement. I want that same energy on the side hustle to get the actual cash to do it because you guys can do this. And again, this is a suggestion because I thought you were super, super excited to get out of debt. If you think you can pay off the 40 ,000 here quickly, it's going to take the same sacrifice. So it's just how quickly do you want to do it?

2:02:35Because if you have 40 ,000, that's going to be that much longer that you're going to be in that, that, that frame of mind of we're doing whatever we have to take beans and rice, rice and beans. Right. And that's not necessarily fun. So I was just trying to shorten it for you. And that's kind of where we're only positive$600 a month. So we're putting that towards it. And then I'm working on getting a part-time job to work from home to help with that. So we'll be hopefully$1 ,100 positive a month. And that's with nothing extra. Great, great. And your husband, he needs to kick it into high gear too.

2:03:13And when we say scorched earth, high intensity, we really mean it, Sadie. Like this is, this is, I kiss my husband in the morning and I might not see him until we're both sleep at night kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, we've had so many debt-free screens. You may have heard them on the show where people are working crazy hours. And, you know, just instead of the crazy hours, let's just throw a number out there. All right, so let's say you guys generated an additional three grand a month. and all three grand of it went to the car. We're out in a year. Now, I always like to oversimplify, but I don't think that's truly oversimplification.

2:03:57I'm just going, I'm giving you a number. Then you work backwards. And then you start going, well, if I got to work this many hours to get there, but it's like, what do we have to do, Sadie, you and your hubs, through selling more stuff and working like crazy? Can we generate three grand a month that we would put on the car? And in that case, We're out of it in 12 months. And we got a nice car. Great. I would go that route if it were me. Okay. And I'll tell you why. And I want Jade's take on this, but I've heard Dave say this. I've been on the show a day before and he'll say something to the effect of, I like you paying this car off so that you get this whole debt payoff with the large swaths of selling something here and there while we fundamentally don't care.

2:04:41You don't feel it as much as when you're hustling. If it was a little cheaper, I might say that. But you guys making 60 and having a$40 ,000 car. It's too much. It's too much. No question. And that for me and the fact that you had another car that was 18 or whatever it was, six. It's just you guys have too much for your income. And so that's why if I had to do it, I would sell the car and get something cheaper. Not saying that you have to stay in a$10 ,000 car forever. But after this debt is done, then you can save up another$5 ,000 and get yourself into $15 ,000. Right? get something closer to 2025 that feels right um but i think that if you do my plan you'll still get some of the medicine that ken is talking about of the oh yeah i gotta work i gotta hustle i am all for selling the car but because it's the only debt they have i'm fine if they attack it too but i'm giving you a 12 month plan yeah on the car yeah uh and and you got to choose but it's going to be uncomfortable regardless yeah for sure yeah is your husband fully on board here oh 100 yeah he's listening to the show as we speak so okay okay game on game on yeah well there you go i mean you'll be surprised what you can get for 10 000 oh i love searching up cars yeah you know and and by the way that's the quickest way to do it now and again you you got to go you get the smaller loan.

2:06:07That's the only time we're okay with that, but you're going to get out of debt faster. No question about it. So yeah, appreciate the call. Good call. Explain the, I love this because again, I always want to remember we have a lot of new people coming in. Yes. Explain our ratio on car. Why did we say this was too much car based on their income? So the thing to remember about cars is we all need transportation, but cars go down in value. They're not going up. And once they start going down in value, you feel that in your wallet. You feel that in your take home. And so if you're making, you know, our rule of thumb is you shouldn't have more than 50 % of your salary and things that are going down in value.

2:06:45So they make 60 ,000 a year. The max car they need is about 30 ,000 combined. So each of them are driving a $15 ,000 Camry. That's basically what that looks like. They've got, they've got a$40 ,000 car and then another vehicle that they paid off. So we already know more car than they need. And I know, can when we tell people to sell cars, it's like, what have, what are you saying, Jade? But the truth is that car payment is keeping so many people from doing the things that they want to do and need to do with their money, like invest for the future. And so if you can get back your car payment, you are ahead of most Americans.

2:07:20If you can sell off your vehicle and if you're upside down, what we were telling them to do is go to the bank or I don't care what kind of debt you get for the difference. If you're going down, it's good. If you're going from$40 ,000 to$6 ,000 because you got a$6 ,000 loan to cover the upside down portion so you can actually sell the vehicle, that is a win. That is a win. And while we're talking about this, this may not be a fun take for a lot of you, but when I hear a lot of Americans talk about how expensive it is to live, most of the time they're not looking inward for just a moment to go, what are our combined car payments.

2:07:56And with two car household, you're probably looking at$1 ,500 a month. That would change their life if that wasn't there. So just food for thought. Hey, remember this, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.