You Can’t Shortcut Your Way to Wealth

22:28Dave Ramsey:It's clickbait. Because it's absolute bull crap. So, I mean, 120-something of the cities are in California. Well, of course. Which means that they took seven cities that were all little villages around the edge of San Jose, and they all have a million dollars. Of course they do. You know, you're in freaking Silicon Valley. Of course the seven cities that are around, that are actual municipalities that surround L.A. are a million dollars. But Abilene, Texas is not, Oklahoma City is not, Amarillo, Texas, Nashville, Tennessee is not a million-dollar starting point. So they made it sound like that it took a million dollars for somebody to buy a house, and that's absolute bullcrap.

23:09Dave Ramsey:The average entry point in America is$199 ,000 right now. That's the average starter home. And the average home in America is$407 ,000 or something like that. What is it right now? But, yeah. So it's$427 ,000 right in there. But, I mean, that's the median price. That's the middle price of all homes in America, which means by definition, a million dollars is not starting. That's right. So bullcrap, Zillow. So that's the problem with stuff like that floating around from these people looking for clicks. If you want to know the actual thing that's going on, you can go to RamseySolutions.com slash market, and you'll get a great real estate page that will outline for you exactly what's going on with interest rates, exactly what's going on with pricing, and so on.

23:58Dave Ramsey:And you can start to figure out whether or not you make enough to buy a home in your locality. Real estate's like politics. It's all local. so what's happening in manhattan is completely almost completely irrelevant to what's happening in kansas city and all that matters if you're in kansas city is what's happening in kansas city that's right and so you can't go well the average across america doesn't mean anything you say the average across the world but you're including tokyo and london some of the most expensive real estate in the world. And that average is absolutely useless as a measure of whether you can buy a house or not.

24:39Dave Ramsey:So that's not how you figure this out, folks. So Ramsey Trusted can connect you with an agent in your area that is Ramsey Trusted that we have vetted for high octane, high protein. And if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast, you can just click the link in the description. or if you want to go online, ramseysolutions.com slash agent. We'll connect you with a real agent that really knows their stuff, not a bunch of hoopla and bullcrap clickbait from some TV show or website that's just trying to get people to click on it. And that's fear porn is what that is. So just stay away from it. San Francisco, our Francisco is with us in Atlanta.

25:22Dave Ramsey:Hi, Francisco. How are you? Good. How are you, sir? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I just need a couple, I need some help with taking some next steps with investing my money. I'm 20 years old right now. I'm a plumber. And I just feel like I'm not taking advantage of my money the correct way. I feel like it's just sitting in the bank doing nothing. Cool. How much are you making, man? I mean, it's my first year by myself in my van. I just finished my apprenticeship. And it's been really slow over here. I don't know if it's just the company that I'm with right now. I am looking for other jobs because I just feel like this company that I'm with right now is not – I won't get far with it.

26:18So this year, I feel like I haven't even made – I don't even think I've made across the$30 ,000. in. And that's 40 hours a week?

26:28Dave Ramsey:So far this year? Yeah. So you're going to make 60 a year? I mean, completely. I don't know how much I would make. Are you making$2 ,500 a month, honey?

26:45Some months, yes. Some months, no. Less? Some months, less?

26:49Dave Ramsey:That would be$30 ,000 in the first six months, and that'd be$30 ,000 a year. Yeah. It's been really slow, so like some weeks I work. Sounds like you need a new job. Yeah, that's what I've been hunting for recently, finding a new job. Okay. And how much do you have piled in the bank? About$8 ,000-ish. Good for you. And how much do you have in debt? No debt. I mean, I only have a credit card. I think I would like 800 bucks, probably pay it off like next month or something. And cut it up. Pay it off right now. Pay it off right now. Tonight. You have the money in the bank. Okay, yeah. And cut it up.

27:34Dave Ramsey:Quit using it. You don't need it for any purposes. Your first goal is to be debt-free, and your second goal is to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses before you start investing. And so you need to be 100 % debt-free, no credit cards, be living on a budget, and we'll send you every dollar, our app that will help you build your budget out and build the system out that we teach here at Ramsey. And then you build that emergency fund. So take that$8 ,000. It needs to be$15 ,000 to$20 ,000. And you never touch that. That's just for a rainy day. It's just sitting over there. It's not an investment.

28:10Dave Ramsey:Then you start investing 15 % of your income. If your new company has a 401k, do the Roth version, Roth 401k. If it doesn't, then go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro. That's mutual fund brokers and financial advisors that we recommend. They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher, and they'll sit down and teach you about investing. And you can start your Roth IRA with them, and they'll show you how to do it, and they'll show you how it works. and you will make the decision because they're not going to sell you something until you understand it. Yeah. And speaking of making sure you understand it, let's talk about why we told him to cut up the credit card.

28:53Because what I don't want you to do, Francisco, is just say, well, they told me to do it. I'm going to do it. And you not understand it. We know that if you have a problem, the problem is generally debt. The things that you're experiencing are usually symptoms of the debt that's in your life. And so you can't solve a problem while continuing to create it. So if you have credit cards and you're continuing to spend them, you're continuing to create the problem. You're just chasing your tail. So one of the primary things that you have to do when you start this system of living is you have to say, I don't borrow money anymore.

29:25And that has to be part of who you are with your money from here on forward, because you have to be able to have the fullness of your income at your disposal every single month to do the things that we're teaching, whether it's investing, whether it's paying off a house, whether it's saving for kids college, whether it's saving up cash to buy a car. You need income to do that. And if you're pulling and you're throwing all your monthly, all of your income onto monthly payments, you don't have the income at your disposal to do those things. So that's why we teach it that way.

29:55Dave Ramsey:Exactly. And so personal finance is 80 % behavior. It's 20 % head knowledge. So the problem with my money is the guy in my mirror. If I can get him to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues. and so I've got to get him to behave and that's how this works and part of that is I have to trick myself into wisdom tricking myself into wisdom is not having a credit card yeah just cut it up then it's not there to tempt you if I don't have one then it's not an issue that's right and by the way your debit card folks off your checking account will do everything your credit card will do every single thing Sharon and I have been have traveled in other countries six times in the last 12 months, 100 % on a debit card.

30:38Dave Ramsey:We haven't had a credit card in 36 years. No. And if you have fraud, it's the exact same protection. You call them, you say somebody spent money. Oh, they did. They stole Sharon's card the other day. Did they? Somebody started buying a whole bunch of Louis Vuitton and it wasn't her. And we had to shut the thing down. Wow. The bank called and goes, are you buying like Louis Vuitton in six different cities? And we went, no. Yeah. Wow. You know what it cost us? Zero. Nothing.

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32:54Dave Ramsey:Kim is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Kim. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. My husband's job offers a$2 ,000 interest-free loan to all their employees. yearly. We've never taken advantage of it, but we think we should. And we're not sure which way to go if we want to put that into an IRA or pay off one of our mortgages. But it's a loan. You have to give the money back. It's a loan, right? It is, but it is interest-free. So it would be taken out of the paycheck throughout the year. So essentially for us, it feels like we wouldn't notice it so much. I mean, I don't know if it'd be worth it or not.

33:37Let's pretend that they charged you interest on it just for the fun of it.

33:44Dave Ramsey:Okay. I mean, like, let's just make up a number. If you went to the bank and got a personal line of credit, you might get it for 10%. On$2 ,000, that'd be$200. You're making$20 a month. you can't buy a biscuit with this transaction you're burning way too many brain calories for no money here okay there's no trick there's no hack you're dealing with peanuts and you're not going to get anything but more peanuts okay don't screw with it for that and it's a trap you're going to get caught in something like he's going to get laid off or fired and you have this loan outstanding and then it's going to convert to interest because you're no longer an employee or whatever the crap is on the fine print that you guys hadn't even thought about.

34:36Dave Ramsey:No, do not step up on the rug that's over the trap door. George says this and it's so true. Whenever the call starts with, I have an interesting opportunity. Whenever it's framed as a unique opportunity. It's like your friend who's trying to get you into a multi-level. Yes. This is not an opportunity.

35:00Dave Ramsey:Rob is in Washington, D.C. Hey, Rob, what's up? Just trying to just want to say thank you for everything that you do for people. And so glad that you took my call. Thank you. How can we help? I'm in an interesting position. I make a very high salary and I had an eight-year guaranteed contract. the company started going through financial issues to where I started having to cover payroll out of my pocket and then credit cards started bouncing. And anyways, and so... No, you didn't have to. You chose to. I chose to because I cared about the people that were my employees. They're not your employees.

35:40Dave Ramsey:They were the company's employees. They were your downline. I understand. From a Christian point of view, I just... No, that's not Christian. There's nothing Christian about that. Whose payroll did you cover? How much did you spend on this? It wasn't much. I mean, you're talking$17,$18 an hour employees, and it was every couple months. And then the company started bouncing my paychecks or paying me late. And my main question is, go ahead. Were you board level? Are you bought in in any way to this company? That's where the contract is very interesting. I'm a physician, and I signed an eight-year contract with 5 % interest in the company going up over the first four years to where I'd own 40 % of the company, and the contract was guaranteed for eight years.

36:30Dave Ramsey:Okay, but they went broke. No, they let me go because they couldn't afford to have me anymore. They went broke. So now without my salary, they're breaking even. Okay. So my options are to, it's an LLC. The person that owns the company had no idea what they were doing, and it's like a play project because their husband is very wealthy, but he is only on the SBA loan. He's not on the LLC or the corporate documents. Oh, boy. Well, the LLC doesn't have anything. It's not got any money, right? No, it's just breaking even. It's breaking even covering expenses once I'm no longer there. The reason that she, the letter that she gave me for letting me go was because of financial strain.

37:24It wasn't for any other type of cause. So when you were hired and there was this eight year and after eight years, it's 40%, did you have to put money in to buy into that? I did not. They searched me out because the type of physician I am, I'm getting paid significantly higher than any other college. What kind of an income do you normally make in your field? Normally in my field, they're probably making$70 to$100. I'm making$225 to$250.

37:54Dave Ramsey:As a physician, somebody makes$70? Are you like a pediatrician? No, I'd rather not. I don't want to give away anything about that. Anyway, the answer to your question is, A, we're not lawyers. B, from a practical standpoint, if you are completely right, which you probably are, they owe you for eight years of income. They have violated a contract. That's what you're saying. And you could probably win the lawsuit. And then you would have a judgment against a broke company that's not going to pay you a dime. Right. No, I know. So why? Why would you bother? I'll be honest with you, Dave. I went through a bankruptcy like you did several, let's say, 10, 15 years ago.

38:41And I've had, I always feel like I'm the underdog, and I'm the type of person that will work seven days a week for you. I'll do the blood, sweat, and tears. And I'm having a hard time letting people get away with stuff anymore. Yeah. Well, they're going to get away with it because you can sue, again,

38:58Dave Ramsey:get a lien against an LLC that has no assets. No, but can I ask you, since the husband is on the SBA. Doesn't matter. He didn't sign the contract. The LLC signed the contract. You're not going to get to the husband. He did that to protect himself. That was intentional. No, but he signed the SBA, so he wouldn't be on the hook for the SBA. He's on the hook for the SBA, but he's not on the hook for you. No, but it's still, because they're making enough right now to pay the bills, so that would allow them to pay all the loans off for the next. This doesn't feel moral, but it's completely legal. No, I know what it is.

39:35Dave Ramsey:You're not going to get to him. He has what's called a corporate veil. That's why they did business in an LLC. That's why any of us do business in an LLC. So if we get sued, the maximum thing you could get is the assets of the LLC. You can't come after his personal. That's why all my real estate is in an LLC. Because a drunk guy fell off the front porch in one of the houses the other night and decided he was going to sue. And it's his fault because he was drunk. But I still got to deal with the moron. And he can't get to any of my stuff. All he can get to is the LLC that owns that house. That's it.

40:08Can I ask you a moral question? How do you get over, a moral question, how do you get over, I don't want to say it's vindictiveness, but just feeling like you're getting burned and not sticking up for yourself?

40:21Dave Ramsey:No, I completely, I don't know that you do get over it. It makes you angry and it hurts you, your feelings, and all you can do is distance yourself and then figure out, okay, I'm going to burn some energy. Am I going to burn it just trying to prove a point? Because you're going to spend$10 ,000,$20 ,000,$30 ,000 to sue them and win, and then you're going to get nothing, and it's going to be playing in your head for the next two to three years because the court system sucks and drags everything out. So it's not justice. You're not going to get justice. and so you've got to decide okay what am i going to spend my time and my energy on i'm going to spend on something positive going forward so something that's helpful and hopeful so let's pretend uh let's pretend he did sue and he sued him for a million bucks yeah uh and they're doing business out of a commercial building maybe that they own it maybe it's worth a million bucks So if he sues them, the judgment wouldn't cause them to have to close down, sell the property and pay him.

41:27Dave Ramsey:Well, he said the LLC has no assets. So it doesn't have a commercial building. Well, he said they were breaking even. But I kept asking about assets, no assets. They don't have any money. They just cut their doctor loose and they're a medical operation. That's true. They're going down. They don't have any money. And they might have an asset. If they've got an asset, like a commercial building, then yeah, go after it. You could go after it. You could get it. You could end up with the building. Even the, I mean, he did say no assets, but I got, there's got to be something in there that there. No, there doesn't.

41:57Dave Ramsey:They could have gone and rented office space, set up a medical operation, say a clinic of some kind, right? We don't know because he didn't give us the details. It sounds like that. That's probably something like that. And so, you know, there's a bunch of used medical equipment in there and a bunch of broke people that aren't getting their salaries paid. Okay. Yeah. And there's, you know, and a used office desk. And, you know, I wouldn't screw with it. I'd move on with my life, but it's very hard to his point because it's unjust. It's not fair and it's not right.

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44:00Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Justina is in Baltimore. Hi, Justina. How are you? Hi, I'm doing good. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? my husband and i we keep fighting and i just want to know if he's right uh we keep fighting about buying prepared foods while baby step two is he right what's a prepared food so like frozen meals or like prepared lasagna or in particular i buy these chicken burrito bowls to eat while i'm at my second job. Are you guys aligned on everything else? Yes. What's the problem, the quality or the price? Because that stuff is not expensive.

44:48I don't think it's expensive at all. The chicken bowls are$13.97 and he says I can make them, but I prep our lunches for during the week. What are spend about$200 every two weeks.

45:04Dave Ramsey:Okay, so$400 a month? What's your household income? I make$61, and he makes$58. Okay, and you're attacking debt, obviously, with intensity. Yes. And so how much debt are you attacking? We have$45 in student loans, and then$37 in credit cards, and then$195 on our house. But unfortunately, his mother passed away, so we just inherited$104. Which is going to clear all your debts. Everything but the house. And you're not going to be in baby step two anymore. Right. So then it doesn't matter if you buy prepared meals anymore. And by the way, it didn't matter before either. If you were spending$400, if you were spending$100 a week on groceries, That's really, really good.

45:57It's really low. It's really low. Now, if he says to you, you're responsible for the meals and I don't like this food, I don't enjoy it. Can we please do something else? That's fair. But if he's saying on price alone, I would disagree with what he's saying. It feels like that.

46:16Dave Ramsey:Okay. Let me tell you what normally happens when I've been coaching people on these situations. That we've found one thing that absolutely doesn't matter to argue about. but there's a whole lot of big things that we should have been arguing about that we're not right like he's he's still buying two thousand dollar guns or something and and bitching about a thirteen dollar burrito um that's what i find a lot of times um or he you know or you're buying something else that he's really frustrated about but he's pointing it over here at the burrito instead. Yeah. Am I missing something? I mean, is there a coach purse in the story that I missed?

46:58No. He's just a tightwad.

47:01Dave Ramsey:You guys are in complete 100 % agreement. There's no argument about everything else in your budget, and you're running a$400 food budget. Yeah. I guess the only thing different in our budgeting that we want to do is I want to take Rachel's suggestion and add a stupid line item for those things that just pop up and he doesn't want to do that he's a tightwad well no he's really trying to be very very intense but um but but we're here's the problem you end up if you lose the wife if you lose the spouse over a 13 burrito you didn't win the war you threw the baby out with the bath water okay Now, again, she's not trying to buy a$6 ,000 coach purse.

47:49Dave Ramsey:There's no Louis Vuitton in this discussion. There's no expensive firearms in this discussion or whatever it is that we want to talk about, boy toys and girl toys or whatever. That's not in the discussion. So this is simply, okay, so what I'm going to coach him to do is this. You win the argument because it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter $13 does not fix your all's life right okay so you win the argument but he needs to learn the art of letting you win some battles so that we win the war of working on this together it's more important it's 99 % important that both of you stay enthused and pointed at the problem it's 1 % important as to whether you buy a burrito.

48:45Right.

48:45Dave Ramsey:You got me? So, you know, there might be a dollar or two technicality, and Jade's a better expert on food. She says there's not. She says it's not out of line. But even if it was$5 more in a$400 budget, he could win the math, but it's stupid. Don't lose your wife for$5. He's right. It's going to be cheaper for you to cook everything from scratch, But$400 is a fair budget item. Like that's a fair amount to spit on groceries. It's very low. It's very, very low. Yeah, very low. As it is. And we don't see that hardly ever. So overall, you win the argument. But if I had him on the line, I would coach him and say, dude, more important that she's enthused and focused on the overall plan than the$13 burrito.

49:33Dave Ramsey:What she's asking is not so far out there. Yeah. It's like when I ask my husband to make up the bed, and he makes up the bed, but he does it a little bit different than the way I do it. And if I get on to him, pretty soon he ain't making up the bed. You know? Yeah. It's almost like that happened this weekend. Oh, did we just bring up a real analogy? We did. A real metaphor. Okay. Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, yeah. You know? If you're going to gripe about the way I do it, you get to do it. That's right. And so you lose the battle of helping with housework over the wrinkle in the corner of the bed.

50:07Dave Ramsey:That's right. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. So let's get on the same page. Let's decide what's really important here. What's really important is we get out of debt, stay out of debt. We're generous when we build wealth and we're on a plan together. That's right. This is what causes people to be wealthy, not$13 burritos or the lack of them. You really caught up on this burrito. Either one. Well, I tell you what's flashing through my head. It's those stupid bags of chicken breasts from Sam. Yeah. We lived on those things when we were broke. And I hate those things to this day. Anytime I'm in a restaurant, fine dining or otherwise, we have a chicken breast.

50:47Dave Ramsey:No, thank you. No way. Tuna fish. The other one was tuna fish. Yeah, I remember you said that. She would make tuna fish sandwiches and I would take them to work and they would be in the work refrigerator and by lunch they'd be soggy. when i smell tuna fish my net worth goes down now just the smell of it reminds me of being broke it's cat food it's just somebody else needs to eat that health food because i'm not doing it it's that simple i can't it reminds me of being broke i totally get it it's just i the smell of it i smell it and i feel broke i feel that that's how i am with because that's the last time i ate It was like soggy, sat there in the refrigerator.

51:27Dave Ramsey:The bread gets, oh, God, it's so gross. And so that's the stuff he's going to remember now. They're going to remember the$13 burrito or whatever when they're the side of this someday, and they're millionaires. They're baby step millionaires. And we had this stupid discussion over that. The other one that was funny was Sharon and I had this huge fight, three little kids, because I thought, I'm that guy, spending too much at the grocery store. And she's like, all right, King Genius. You do it. Get your butt in the car and let's go to Kroger. And we go up and down the aisle. And you know what I discovered?

52:04Dave Ramsey:She was doing a pretty good job. I love it. And my level of criticism for her future deal making on the groceries was none at all. Because otherwise I get to do it and I couldn't do any better anyway. But I had this opinion from afar that I had this figured out until I got marched down the aisle of Kroger. Very good, Dave.

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54:04Dave Ramsey:If you're working the baby steps, the fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now the plan is built right in. You track your progress, you get personalized recommendations, you get coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work the plan out of debt into wealth even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Joseph is in Lansing, Michigan. Hi, Joseph. How are you? i'm doing good dave thank you so much for taking my call it's a pleasure to speak with you you too what's up sir i'm a welder by trade and i am looking to start my own mobile welding and fabricating business to get this off the ground i'm humoring several avenues to pay for the startup cost of this.

55:06The big cost, I already have the rig and I already have the welder. So the two main costs are taken care of, but there is a substantial amount more that needs to go into getting this thing ready if it's going to go out and do the job. The first avenue I'm humoring is selling. My wife and I both have our cars paid off and I'm thinking about selling my 2017 Subaru Crosstrek, which Kelly Blue Book, last time I checked, will get me about$13 ,500 maybe, that ballpark. Um, we are expecting our third child here at the end of July and my welding rig is not car seat friendly. So we would be down to one vehicle for the kids if we made that move.

55:49The second avenue I'm thinking about is I have about 150 ,000 right now put away in traditional and Roth IRAs. And I'm thinking about taking some of that out to fund this. How much do you need? What's the dollar amount that you need?

56:11I'm thinking from all the quotes and everything that I've been putting together, it's going to be maybe around$10 ,000 to be serious to have the right equipment on this thing.

56:19Dave Ramsey:For what? You've already got the rig. Power tools, toolboxes, cylinders, gasoline tanks, business cards for gasoline. I would just say that as well because it's a 1981 Chevy Custom Deluxe. So this thing drinks gas. So when welding, right, if you know anything about welding, there is nothing cheap about it, sir. So you're a welder now, right? Yes, sir. What do you make now? I make just shy of$73 ,000 a year, so$35 ,000 an hour. Okay. And so if you take this rig out as a side hustle and do some welding, is that in conflict ethically with your day job? No, sir. Okay. Are you already doing that? No, I just got the welder back from the shop.

57:16Dave Ramsey:You tuned up the welder, so I'm not currently accepting job time. So I understand the rig as it sits today is less than ideal, but I also understand it will weld. yes sir so go weld something and get you some money from that job and use that money to upgrade your equipment and then go weld something else as a side hustle and get you some money i mean crap you can make ten thousand dollars in your side hustle pretty quick i know and pour it all back into equipment and get your get your rig ready and then you spend six months to a year as your side hustle, making sure this is actually going to work in terms of you're going to get enough business to offset because you don't quit your job until you have this thing proven.

58:02Dave Ramsey:Of course. So go weld something, man. Go get you some business today. You can roll up, weld something, and they'll write you a check, right? It is, sir, no doubt. Okay. That's where you get the money. I understand that, Dave. I'm just saying that when I go out there and do the job, because I do construction repair. Like that's what I specialize in. And so I add wear plates and a bunch of other stuff to construction equipment. So like I need acetylene torches. Like if I just show up with a welder, just the welder on its own, I'll be frank, sir, is not enough to do the job right and effectively.

58:41And I would be saying no to a substantial amount of work because I don't have the tools needed to go and get a night-pain job. I'm not saying this is your five-year plan.

58:49Dave Ramsey:I'm saying it's your five-week plan.

58:54Dave Ramsey:listen i started this business on a card table in my living room it made 300 million dollars last year 100 of the equipment in this place and there's millions and millions and millions of dollars of it today was bought with money we made in this place with equipment we didn't really like and then we upgraded to equipment we liked with the money we made from the equipment we didn't really like. This is my seventh studio that I built that I'm sitting in. The first one wasn't even soundproof. We had to put up tape in the hallway, crime tape that to keep you from walking down the hall and talking because it would have gone over the air.

59:32Dave Ramsey:That's less than ideal, to say the least. And that's how this show started. And it makes millions of dollars now. The show alone does. So start with what you got. borrow your buddy's acetylene torch, pick up some stuff from the vendor. If you've got to pick up some supplies from the vendor and tell them you'll pay them at the end of the job, they'll do that. And then get your butt down there and do some welding. If you wait until everything's perfect to start, you're going to figure out that even your perfect plan wasn't perfect. Go make some money and use that money organically to pour back into the business.

1:00:10Dave Ramsey:That's what I would do. That's what I would do. I wouldn't sell the Subaru with a kid on the way, and I sure wouldn't touch my 401k, and I for sure wouldn't borrow the money to buy stuff that I'm not even positive yet exactly what I need. I think I know. I think you do know, but I'll guarantee you you're not 100 % right on your shopping list. Yeah. There's something to cut back. I agree. And by the way, as soon as you get a piece of equipment, you'll see another one that looks better. Welcome to the world of being in the trades. Yeah. You have to have a version one. You have to have a V1 to start.

1:00:43Dave Ramsey:Yeah, just start minimal functional. Minimal functional and get going. Get going. Make the thing make money. And that's how we start. And, you know, I've had to tell the engineers we're wiring stuff in here. They come in with these bids to redo the studio on stuff. It's been here for six years. Okay, great. Looks okay to me, but the electronics are tired. I didn't know they'd been running. Yeah. So, okay. But, yeah, okay, good. Right. And then they bring in, like, we're going to build a freaking Taj Mahal of electronics. No, we're not. Minimal functional, boys. Go back and figure it out. This is a business.

1:01:17Dave Ramsey:We're trying to make a profit, not make a profit for the electronics store. What you're saying is so right. It's the same thing. When Sam and I started our business, I didn't have a computer. I had my phone. And we couldn't afford for me to get a computer, so I had to do everything like this. And do what you got to do. Yeah, but please, yeah. So first thing is go make some money to properly equip your truck, your mobile welding shop. And then once that's done, then go make enough profitable business in a short period of time as a side hustle to prove to yourself at least a minimum of six months worth to prove to yourself you can at least make more than you are making now.

1:01:58Dave Ramsey:I actually think it's all going to work. I think you're going to go make a whole bunch of money. Absolutely. But I will tell you that we coach about 10 ,000 small businesses, and a lot of them are in and around the construction world. And one of the things those guys all laugh with me about, and I make fun of them all the time, is you guys will spend all your profit on tools. And trucks. Trucks. Well, true. I mean, because Chevy ran some Silverado through a mud puddle. And so you think you've got to have a new Silverado on the construction site so some moron can back into it with a backhoe. And that's, you know, this is a hilarious construction.

1:02:32Dave Ramsey:people, they're just boys with toys and we just buy and I need a backhoe and I need a skid steer and I need this and I need, yeah, you don't. You don't. Don't use up all your profit buying gadgets and that's not what he's saying, but there's a tendency in that world to do that. Yeah, even the business card, it's like you don't need that yet. You don't need a business card. Use your mouth. I don't have a business card. You don't need a business card. You need an email address. That's all you need. And you need a text number. Yeah, a telephone. And a phone. But you do not need a business card.

1:03:31Thank you.

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1:05:25Dave Ramsey:Kayla is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Kayla. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hi, yeah. I have a question. How can I get my husband to be financially transparent with me as far as bank accounts? debts and income. So when you ask him, what's his response? You tell me what you say, and then you tell me what he says. So I am not included in the bank account. I'm a stay-at-home mom. So when I ask him, you know, what it's in the bank account, he He never gives me an exact amount. He always kind of goes around it and says, oh, we're okay. We're doing okay.

1:06:19Does he get upset with you if you continue to ask? No, he's, for the most part, a very calm person. He just kind of takes the conversation to a different direction. He tries to avoid all that. So if you said, well, instead of you telling me the balance, can you just give me the login? That way I can check it whenever I want. What would be his response? I think he told me once that he would rather be in charge of the finances so that I wouldn't have to stress about it. And you say, well, it's not stressful for me. I just want to see it. I've told him that and he avoids it at all costs.

1:07:06Dave Ramsey:How long have you been married? We've been married for three years. Okay. All right. Somewhere along the line, someone gave you guys a bad message about how a relationship actually works. And someone told him and someone told you that your vote doesn't count and your vote counts. so it just depends on how crazy you want to get to make your vote count because my prediction is this that as long as you continue to build up resentment and anger inside of you because he's treating you like a freaking doormat the longer that goes on eventually you're going to blow and when you do your marriage will be over and no one will be able to talk you into staying because you will have put up with this for 10 years or 15 years or eight years or whatever, and you will have had it, and no one will be able to dial you back in.

1:08:05Dave Ramsey:I've sat in coaching sessions with couples and watched their marriage come to an end because they let this stuff go on and on and on and on and on, and finally they blow up. Now, here's another take. I think Dave is right. Here's another way to consider it. I think that sometimes in these situations, when people want to prevent transparency, a lot of times it is because they have something to hide. And what's making me think that is because he's framing it in the way that you have the problem. Oh, I don't want, you'll be too stressed out. You'll be too worried. You'll be the one really, right?

1:08:46When really the problem is he has the problem. And he's not saying, I just don't feel comfortable. I just need to get a grip. He's making it sound like you're the person who has a problem. So that's a red flag for me. And I do think that this has to be brought to a counselor. Because whether it's what Dave said or whether it's what I said, both of those are not, you can't continue down that path that way.

1:09:08Dave Ramsey:He's real calm and you're real sweet until you're not. Oh, correct. But this will come to an end. Because you're getting pretty frustrated. You just called a couple of strangers on a podcast with millions of people listening and told your story. You're already pretty frustrated. Yeah. And so it's starting to build. And I don't want it to blow. And so, you know, I think, you know, honey, if we can't come to an arrangement where I have the same vote you have about our money and we both know what's going on with the money and my name is on the account and I have full access, there is going to be stress in the house, but it's going to be yours because I'm about to create some stress for you.

1:09:51Yeah. And another, I'll tell you what Dr. John Deloney would say. He said, you know, when you have those conversations, frame it in the story that you're telling yourself and say, you know, the way things are, the story I'm telling myself is that you're locking me out because you have something to hide. And the story I'm telling myself is that if this doesn't change pretty soon, I will blow and that this will cause, you know, damage to our relationship that won't be able to be repaired. That's the story I'm telling myself. I don't want to keep going down that path, right? That's another way that you can frame it.

1:10:22Dave Ramsey:And so either we can come to an arrangement by Friday afternoon where my name is on the account and I have full access to everything and you and I are making financial decisions together, or I'm going to go see a marriage counselor and I'm going to ask you to go with me because I don't want our marriage to end, but that's where this is heading. This does not end well. No, never. It doesn't. It doesn't end well. And let me paint this. If you're the guy doing this, you're not taking care of the little woman. If you're telling yourself that, you're so full of crap you can't breathe. That is an absolute lie.

1:10:56Dave Ramsey:All it is is you're a control freak. And we see the other side of it all the time. How often do people call in, they've been married forever, and they've allowed this to persist. The husband passes away. The wife had no idea. No idea what's going on. No idea. And there's debt, and there's this, and there's that. By the way, she can't get on the checking account. They're going to get a court order because there's no will because Bozo hasn't really been running the stuff right. Yeah. So, Bubba, you're not taking care of the little woman. That's just bull crap. That is not what's working. So the little woman is like a full-grown person, and they can carry half of the emotional stress of this household with you.

1:11:33Dave Ramsey:And should know what's going on. And by the way, the unknown is much more stressful than the known. It creates much more anxiety when you don't know what's going on and you make up stories in your head about what's going on than when you actually know the truth. That's right. You go, crap, I thought it was a lot worse than this. I'm glad to see that we're in this situation. You know, so, you know, the unknown is way worse than a bad known for creating anxiety. Absolutely. You're not helping someone. But that's not the truth. He's really not trying to protect her. No. No. He's hiding. Yeah, he's hiding something.

1:12:07Or he's controlling.

1:12:08Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Or both. Melissa is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Melissa. How are you? Hi, Dave and Jade. Doing well. How are y 'all? Doing all right. How can we help? Good. Okay. I'm a little nervous. So here we go. So we are selling one of our homes and we're expected to get roughly 120 in equity. So we're on baby step number two. But should we continue following small to large, or should we pay off all of my student loans because rates are expected to go up? How much do you have in debt? Consumer debt is$59 ,571, and student loans is$124 ,825. Oh, that is consumer debt. Okay. So you've got$163 ,000. Okay. and you've got$120 ,000 coming out of the house.

1:13:02Dave Ramsey:What are you going to do for a place to live after you pay all this down on the debt? So we actually have two homes, so we're selling that one, and then we're going to rent until we're selling our second home. Actually, both are up for sale, and so then we're going to rent. Oh, good. So what's the other one going to bring?

1:13:24That's probably maybe$9 ,000 because we've been in less than two years, so we'll have to pay capital gains.

1:13:33Dave Ramsey:And then you'll have— You don't pay capital gains on anything except the gain. So— How much did you buy it for? We bought it for$320. And what will it sell for? It's on for$360. That's$40. It's on the market for— So 15 % of 40 is not nine. No, that's not. Your taxes aren't as much as you thought they were. That's what I thought. Okay, anyway, it doesn't matter. Still didn't clear it. Okay, so what's the$59 ,000 in debt? Credit cards and my car. We paid off my husband's truck. How much do you owe on your car? My car is$19 ,906. Okay. Well, the credit cards are a higher interest rate than the student loans.

1:14:16I really don't think it's going to matter. I would do it in the normal way, smallest to largest, because you're still going to have your income to put towards cleaning up the rest of the debt. And if you go at lightning speed, like we suggest, it's going to be negligible either way.

1:14:29Dave Ramsey:You're going to pay it off really fast either way. But clearing up all the credit cards and the car debt, that's going to clean up a bunch, clear up a bunch of cash flow to be able to attack the balance of what you don't get to. You're only going to have about$60 ,000 left to knock out. Yeah. No, I would work that at Snowball in order.

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1:16:20Dave Ramsey:Jackie is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jackie. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering if you could help me determine a comfortable monthly payment for a house and how much I should put down. Not counting 401k and not counting health insurance, only having taxes out, whatever your take-home pay is with only taxes coming out, we recommend a fourth of it on a 15-year fixed rate. And so if you're coming home with$5 ,000, not counting 401K and not counting health insurance, just taxes coming out, you're coming home with$5 ,000, and that's the proper amount of taxes coming out of your check, then you would say a fourth of that would be$1 ,250.

1:17:21Okay.

1:17:25And with my assets, I was wondering how much of it I should put down on a house. Whatever the amount will get you to that number.

1:17:34Dave Ramsey:No, as much as you can that's not retirement. Yeah, that's a good point, yeah. Yeah, I have a substantial amount of stock, and I don't know if I could. I'll cash it out and put it on the house. like all of it. Can you pay cash for the house? Yeah, how much is the stock? I have about$250 ,000 in stock, and then a little over$60 ,000 in cash. So you could buy a$310 ,000 house for cash. Okay. Is that right? I would still have to pay cash or pay a tax on the stock. So probably a little bit less. Approximately, give or take, you're going to be able to pay. you're going to be able to pay up to$300 ,000 or so and pay cash for a house.

1:18:20Dave Ramsey:What price range home were you thinking of? I wasn't sure. I got approved for$400 ,000. I could have probably been approved for$500 ,000. You could probably be approved for whatever. Approval doesn't matter. They'll take you up to— Approval just means the mortgage company wants to loan you money. That's like asking a dog if it's hungry. Now, Jackie, you have no debt, right? Correct. And do you have any other emergency funds, any cash sitting around? It would just be that$60 ,000. Okay. And what do you make? In cash. My take-home is about$4 ,700 cash, like after taxes, like I net$4 ,700. And then I do have child support that's about$2 ,800.

1:19:06So about$7 ,500 per month.

1:19:09Dave Ramsey:How old are the children? uh they're just starting elementary school so i'm going to definitely need child care at least for the next five or six years which is about 1200 a month yeah but you're going to be 10 years you'll be getting child support give or take so okay correct yeah at least 10 more years so here's the thing here here's what we're why we're bouncing around with all these questions What we're trying to get you to is 100 % debt-free as soon as possible, house and everything, because if you have zero payments on a house and you have$7 ,500 coming in, you could build wealth very quickly.

1:19:54Okay.

1:19:54Dave Ramsey:So in other words, your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. And when you're not giving it to the bank, whatever the bank is, in this case, a mortgage company, then you have it freed up to build wealth with. And it becomes a lot of money, millions of dollars fairly quickly if you don't give it all to the bank. So, you know, mathematically, and I don't live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, so I don't know. But mathematically, if you paid cash for a$260 ,000 house and had$20 ,000 or$30 ,000 in an emergency fund and you had no payments and that would suffice for your children for the next several years, you could live there four, five, six years or whatever and be safe.

1:20:43Dave Ramsey:If you did that and you took$7 ,500 and you started putting aside several thousand dollars a month, you're going to become a millionaire fairly quick. that's the most extreme side of what we teach now if you want to back all the way down to up to you know the maximum we would ever tell you to do and i'm really uncomfortable in this conversation telling you it's even okay to do that is a fourth of your take-home pay so about 2 ,500 i mean uh i don't even think i would recommend that because i mean we it fits with With our guidelines, fourth of your take-home pay. And so we're talking about$2 ,000 approximately a month on a 15-year fixed with$300 ,000 down.

1:21:27Dave Ramsey:You know, that's going to get you a lot more house than I was talking about a while ago, right? It is. That's going to get you in like a$600 ,000,$700 ,000 house. So three or four times the house that I was discussing. And you're still fairly conservative. I think I'd go some, if I were in your shoes today, Jackie, I'd probably be, if it were Jade in your shoes, I'd go somewhere in the middle. I might not pay full cash, but I might say I'm willing to finance a little bit. But what I'd be thinking about, and this is just based on some of the calls we get, I'd be thinking about what my life would look like if child support were to change in a major way.

1:21:59And I were no longer getting that money. I'd want to be well within affordability because we do get calls where that amount changes. And it's like, what do I do? I was dependent on this. So, yeah, if I were in your shoes, I'd veer more towards the cash, but maybe I'm financing one or two.

1:22:16Dave Ramsey:Before I even did that, though, I would go investigate and say, I'm going to look at houses for$270 ,000 and go, I'm going to pay cash. Because I got to tell you, you'll be really wealthy. Pretty nice. You'll be pretty wealthy. I mean,$270 ,000 house paid for, zero debt, zero stress. Yeah. All you got to do is make money and save it. and be generous with it and take care of those kiddos. And that would still be somewhat of a temporary thing because you could then, I mean, gosh, you could move up in-house in five years. You buy that house in five years, it'd probably double. Man, that's nice. And then you take that$500 and put a bunch of money with it and move up.

1:22:56Dave Ramsey:That'll get you a long, long way. That is very nice. People don't think that way anymore. Zillow tells you you can't do that, right? You got to start at a million dollars. You got to start at a million-dollar startup house. Right. Except that the typical is not. By the way, first-time homebuyers, the number one, the main price, the average home price for first-time homebuyers in America,$199. Wow. Nationally. Now, again, I do not know the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania markets. Here's the thing, though. I can't comment on it. Here's the thing, though. It really is an expectation thing because if you watch any of the shows where they go home shopping.

1:23:29Dave Ramsey:That you're already screwed. You are. But think about it. If you're in California and you are in one of those markets where just to start you're spending$950,$1 million, what they get is nothing. Nothing. It's nothing. But they buy it and they make it work and they live there. So if you're Jackie and you can be in a rural suburb or a suburb of Harris, Pennsylvania, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and you can get something that's – right? You could pay a lot less for it, but it's still that size that you would – right? So it's all expectation. Not a fixer-upper, though. It's 1 ,000, you know, it's 1 ,500 square feet or 2 ,000 square feet.

1:24:03That, I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

1:24:05Dave Ramsey:So John on Fox a while ago, the anchor asked me, he said, what would you pay for your first house? He said, I paid$88 ,000 for mine. And he's about my age. He's a little younger than me. And I said, well, I paid$67 ,500 for mine. I was making$18 ,000. But get this. Here's what people don't think about. It was a one-car garage. It had no stove, no microwave, no refrigerator.

1:24:35It was on a hill and it was really ugly. One bathroom.

1:24:41Dave Ramsey:It had one and a half baths and it was 1 ,200 square feet. Yeah, that's tiny. One car garage, no stove. Way to go buy a stove. Yeah. No dishwasher, no garbage disposal, for mica top cabinets. Okay. The vinyl, the rollout vinyl floors? Yep, exactly. The rollout vinyl floors, because they were big then. Yeah. You know? And so, you know, it was only$67 ,500. Yeah, but a lot of you people would be going, well, it doesn't look like that on television. My Instagram account doesn't show a house. Because, you know, if you walked into a house like that now, y 'all would go, we're going to have to spend a million dollars to fix it up.

1:25:26That's true. That's why when you look at pictures from the 80s, everybody looks poor.

1:25:30Dave Ramsey:But we thought we bought a house. Yes. We had a brand new baby. We bought a house. And the next house we bought was$100 ,000. And it was 1 ,900 square feet. And it did have a dishwasher. Wow. And two-car garage. Moving up. Moving on up. So you've got to think about it. The house I grew up in, man, I mean, it was 1 ,000 square feet, one and a half baths. The little doors were holocor doors. There were no secrets in this house.

1:26:22Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Susie is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi, Susie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm under a solar contract, and I was wondering if y 'all knew of a more economical way to get out of a contract. I'd talk to an attorney, and they want$8 ,000 to get out of the contract, and they guarantee they can do it. You've got the wrong attorney. Okay. Any attorney that wants to make you a guarantee for$8 ,000 is not telling you the truth. There's no such thing as a guarantee.

1:27:04Dave Ramsey:What do you owe the solar company? Well, it's a 25-year note. Right now I pay$200 and I'm... What's the payoff balance today if you paid it off? I don't know. Okay. How long have you had it? Two years. Okay. And how much is it a month? $209, and it goes up every year. Okay. And is the solar company that sold it to you, they obviously sold the note to a bank, I'm sure, right? Yes. Who's the bank?

1:27:46It's sold twice, and I'm not sure. It's not a bank. It's a, I don't know. I'm not sure.

1:27:58Dave Ramsey:Okay. It's a finance company of some kind that's bought the paper. Is the solar company that sold it to you still in business, or have they bankrupted? No, they're in business. Never brought. What's the name of the company on the note? Yeah. Okay. All right. And why is it that you think you should be able to get out of it? Why did the attorney think he can get you out of it? Because they misrepresented it when they sent me. Your phone's breaking up, hon. They misrepresented what? They misrepresented the solar system to me when they installed it. In what way? I thought that he said that we could just, it was more like a lease.

1:28:47And if we didn't like it or it didn't work out, we could just call them and they would come get it. Did you lease the solar? Is it a lease program? No. Okay. No, it's not. It's not.

1:29:00Dave Ramsey:Okay.

1:29:06All right.

1:29:07Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I, well, I mean, anytime that there's a fraudulent misrepresentation in the process, the company that sold it to you could be sued. And there's a rule that the Federal Trade Commission has passed that says the holder of the note is liable for the same fraud that the actual solar company is. in the solar business has been so there's been so much bad stuff go on that the federal trade commission has a regulation now that that this if fraud was proven if they prove that they lied to get you to sign this note and they lied about the note and you can prove that uh and you prove that then the yeah the contract would be canceled well that'd be the hard part i don't know how you're going to prove it though because it's just your word against the salesman right?

1:30:00Dave Ramsey:Right. You don't have anything in writing that says that? No. What he said, I do not. I don't really just got a note that was filed, and that's all I ever got from him.

1:30:18Dave Ramsey:Did you ever think while you're doing this that this was not a good idea, considering the way they talked about it? Yes. Yes, I did. Got to go with that gut reaction, that gut feeling. I know. I think, you know, what I do want you to do, there's no, there's not an automatic switch you can flip that the solar contracts are forgiven. There's no such thing. There's a couple of companies that went broke and the entire company was a shell game, a fraud thing. It was an embarrassment to the Obama administration was one of them. And a couple of those companies, the loans have all been forgiven, but in mass.

1:30:55Dave Ramsey:but under a class action thing and the Federal Trade Commission movement. But most of the several hundred companies have gone broke. Your company hadn't even gone broke because the tax credits went away. And when the solar tax credits went away, the solar business got really hard. And so I think you probably have been defrauded. I'm not an attorney. I have messed with attorneys enough to know that it's not easy. and any attorney that makes you a guarantee is a shyster. They don't have the ability to give you a guarantee. Our court system is not that efficient or just. If justice was done, a judge would walk up, look at this, and say these people were taken advantage of, slam the gavel down, and 30 minutes later you'd be out of the loan.

1:31:44Dave Ramsey:That doesn't exist in our country. This is going to take years with an S. and it's not an$8 ,000 event because it sounds like you've got tens of thousands of dollars of note here. But I would continue to investigate it because I do think you probably have been defrauded just on a practical basis. Now, whether you can prove that in a court of law and get this done, I don't know. But I would talk to some more attorneys and interview some different ones. But please hesitate to do business with an attorney that makes a guarantee. Oh,$8 ,000, I got this. You're right. That's somebody that wants your$8 ,000.

1:32:24Dave Ramsey:Sounds like another scam. That's somebody that wants your$8 ,000. It is going to cost you some attorney's fees, but they should be, if someone is efficient in how they do this, they should be lower than the payoff balance on the solar. And, again, you're going to have to prove the fraud. And I don't know how that's going to happen here. But I would learn more about it by talking to a few more attorneys and try to get one that's a little more professional than the last one you talked to. Linda's in Wisconsin. Hi, Linda. How are you? Hi. I'm doing good. I'm so glad I get to talk to you. Sure. What's up?

1:33:05Thanks. Well, I am wondering if I should be investing in the market given my current somewhat unusual circumstances. Tell us more. Yeah, so I'm 60 and I was diagnosed with cancer several years ago and I am in remission. But when I got diagnosed, it was quite advanced stage four. I left my career of 30 years and went on full disability so I could focus 100 % on my health.

1:33:43Dave Ramsey:Good for you. And luckily, I heard of you a couple of years after that. I wish I had heard of you decades ago. I'd be in a different situation right now. So I do make pretty good Social Security disability. I do have margin. I own my home. I own my car. I have no debt, no children, no spouse. and I have a small nest egg of about$115 ,000. But that's everything. You know, that's my emergency. Are you living on the Social Security disability? I am. Okay, and you don't have another pension other than that? No. But that's enough to cover your monthly net? Yes, and I do have about$500 a month margin at least.

1:34:35Dave Ramsey:Wow, that's amazing given your situation. Yeah, it is. I'm impressed. Congrats on the remission. Hang on, we'll come back after this little break and make sure you get a good solid answer instead of trying to give you a 10-second version with all you've been through.

1:35:09Dave Ramsey:Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke, not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job, because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing. You stop worrying. You stop stressing. Our EveryDollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change.

1:35:45Dave Ramsey:It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the App Store or Google Play.

1:36:08Dave Ramsey:Continuing with Linda, 60 years old, recovering from stage four cancer and now in remission, paid for house, paid for car, no debt,$120 ,000 in the bank, living on her Social Security disability. Is that a fair summary of what you told us so far? Yes. How long have you been in remission?

1:36:31Three years.

1:36:32Dave Ramsey:Wow. Wow. Congratulations. Excellent. That's awesome. Thanks. I just stopped treatment. Yeah. So happy for you. Wow. Thanks. You feeling better? Sort of. Well, you know, I'm still undergoing a lot of surveillance and post-monitoring things. Yeah. The cure just about will kill you, right? Right. Wow. It's incredible. Yeah. Just the stress. Yeah. And, you know, my concern is that I'm only utilizing a high-yield savings account right now, and I'm quite risk-averse. You know, I'm very cautious. Is that where the$115 is in a high-yield savings account? Yes, exactly. Yeah. If I were in your shoes, I would learn some things about the market and about mutual funds from a SmartVestor Pro.

1:37:31Dave Ramsey:and I would move, I'd probably leave about$30 ,000, maybe$40 ,000 in a high yield savings for your emergency and I'd move the rest of it into some mutual funds to where you can get a lot better rate of return. So to give you an example, okay, in 2023 the market went up 26%, high yield savings was 3%. In 2024, the market went up 25%. High yield savings was three. In 2025, it went up 18%. High yield savings was three. It's up 8 % year to date right now. And if so, if it continues on that pace, it'll be up 16 % because we're at about halfway through the year. And high yield savings is three. So the difference for you, and it would not have been appropriate where you were.

1:38:24Dave Ramsey:and those are unusually good years in the market, so you don't expect that. But if you make 10, let's say you've got$100 ,000 in there, which you wouldn't quite have that much in there, but if you make 12 % on it, that's$12 ,000. If you make 3 % on it, that's$3 ,000. Yeah. And so that starts to add up. So I do want you to sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and begin learning about a good mutual fund. It could be that all you do is something simple as an index fund, which is a very calm. It does exactly what the stock market does. Okay. And risk. So you own a home that has zero guarantees. but you were comfortable with no guarantees on your home because you were comfortable with the track record the history of single family homes as an investment and that was wise that's true okay that's true but you got no guarantee there and you're risk averse but that's a steady calm investment that has a huge track record and so if you look at a good mutual fund that's been open for 80 years or 70 years and it's got a track record and it feels like buying a home emotionally risk-wise because you learn about it and over time and you're not doing it because Dave said do it you're doing it because Linda looked at it and Linda is wise and Linda is intelligent and Linda is going to put Linda's money in and Linda feels okay you follow me and you don't do it because the guy at SmartVestor Pro said to do it you do it because you learned about it and you felt good about it.

1:40:09Dave Ramsey:And then you're not going to perceive the risk. Yeah. And I think we should give her tickets to Investing Essentials just for free. Absolutely. Good idea. Yeah. I'll be doing that September 1st and 2nd with George. It's a virtual event. You can just log online. They're$199 tickets. I'll give you a ticket. We'd love to have you watch. Good idea. And we'll get you signed up or we'll get you hooked up with a SmartVestor Pro too. Christian will pick up and help you learn how to do that on the site. But take your time, Linda, and learn. Yes. Just like you did when you were buying the house and you got comfortable with the risk.

1:40:44Dave Ramsey:Liz is with us. Liz is in Green Bay. Hi, Liz. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? I'm wondering how I can convince my dad to get on the same page with me about my 20-year-old daughter purchasing a home. He's trying to displace her from doing that, and I'm trying to convince her that it's a good investment. Let's find out which of you is correct. Tell us more about the 20-year-old daughter. So she currently lives with me. She does not want to go to college. She has made that very clear. She has currently, she just bought a car for$19 ,000 in cash, so she has no debt.

1:41:21She has another$20 ,000 in savings. She would get a$10 ,000 gift from me. She would get a$7 ,500 gift from the company that she works for that is totally tax-free and forgivable after three years as long as she stays with us. And then she would also be eligible for$15 ,000. Stays with us? Do you both work at the same company? We do. So if she leaves the company, she owes the$7 ,500 back? Correct. So let's check that one off the list. She's 20 years old. We don't know what she's going to do.

1:41:56Dave Ramsey:What does she do at that company? She works in the billing department. What does she make? She makes about$45 ,000 a year currently. And you want her to move out and start her life because she's been very successful so far and is a great kid. Yes, and she wants to do that. Your dad doesn't want her to buy a house. Why? He wants her to go to college, and he's afraid that if she purchases a home, she will choose not to go to college. But she's not going to go to college. She has no desire to go to college. You put it out as a foregone conclusion. Has she decided she's not going to go to college or you decide she wouldn't go to college?

1:42:33No, she's decided. I've gone to college. My other child's gone to college. She has determined she does not have any interest in going to college.

1:42:41Dave Ramsey:Okay. What does she want to do for a long-term career? Does she know? She's not 100 % certain, but our company has a very upwardly mobile track for people in her position. Without a college degree. Upwardly mobile track out of billing? Correct. Our current director of customer service started in billing. I'll tell you what. I think she's doing a great job. She's got the cash car. She's got a job. I like the idea of her moving out. I think she's ready to move out. I don't think she needs to buy a house right now. I don't think she's ready for that. I'd love if she got an apartment and continued to rent and save because I think the$7 ,500 is off the table.

1:43:23I would not want her to take that. I would not count on that. Yes, that's off the table. So she's got$30 ,000, but really she's got less than that because she would need three to six months of expenses for an emergency fund. In her case, I'd say six months of expenses. And so for that reason, she's just not ready financially yet. And let me add this, financially not quite yet. And I would love to see somebody rent for a while before they buy, to just go straight from mom and dad's house to I have a place that I own. That's a major, I mean, you know what home ownership feels like.

1:43:56Dave Ramsey:Yeah, move into a one-bedroom apartment, buy your own milk for a while. Yeah. Now, she does pay rent to me. I don't care. But it's not her place. She doesn't have to worry about if moisture is building up in the crawl space. You know what I'm saying? I want her to be out on her own and none of you telling her what to do. And let's work on that for a while and then talk about buying. The second thing is I don't want her career to be decided as a track at one company. I want her to choose a career. What does she want to be doing making a lot of money at 30 years old, 10 years from today? And what must be true that's not true today about her?

1:44:37Dave Ramsey:Because she probably needs some kind of continuing education. Very few people with zero continuing education after high school do well. Now, we have a lot of, quote, high school graduates that become very successful. That's true. But they have continued their education, even if they didn't do it at a four-year college. They go to seminars. They read books. They've got a constant track. They're on a personal growth. And they're very aggressive. Dave Thomas comes to mind. This started Wendy's. Yeah, right. He was a high school graduate, okay? The Wendy's Hamburger King. And not Burger King, Hamburger King of Wendy's, right?

1:45:14Dave Ramsey:And so anyway, yeah, so I want her to think about what she wants to be. And then if that company is the best place for her to be that, that's fine. But just saying, oh, she's got a great track at the company, that's not a career. That's a job.

1:45:46Thank you.

1:46:14playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll break down 401ks, mutual funds, passing on wealth, and more. So join us September 1st and 2nd. Tickets start at$199. You can get yours today at ramseysolutions.com slash events, or just click the link in the show notes.

1:46:51Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day is sponsored by WhyReFi. If missed private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress towards your goals, WhyReFi may be able to help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can manage. Visit WhyReFi.com slash Ramsey. That's WhyReFi.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question is coming from Kevin in Oregon. He says, a lady recently called in the show regarding giving up her late husband's firefighter pension to get married again. You calculated her$50 ,000 annual pension income as equal to a$500 ,000 investment.

1:47:33My question is, where do you get, where do you invest to get a 10 % return like that? All right. So he's wondering, and I think a lot of people ask that question because we quote, you know, if you invest the way that we teach, you know, you can expect an annualized rate of return of between 10 and 11 percent. And that is true. If you invest the way that we speak about, you can say that. Now, I'll start by saying, if you just look at the S &P 500, which is just baseline index, if you look at that from inception, if you look at it from 1926, you're going to see annualized rate of return of over 10%.

1:48:10That's what you're going to find.

1:48:12Dave Ramsey:About 11.8. It doesn't mean that every year it's that. I mean, just the last call Dave quoted the last three years was in the upper 20s. So there's years where it's very high, unseasonably high, I'd say. And there's years where, you know, we have dips and there's months where we have drops. But if you add all that together and accumulate all of that information, you're going to find an annualized rate of return of around 10 to 11 percent, 11.8, which is what Dave just said. Now, that's S &P 500. We're telling you, hey, if you do it our way, you're investing in a mix of four different types of mutual funds, right?

1:48:45We say growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. And when you do that, these are funds that are seeking to beat the average rate of return of the S &P 500. So you really should be doing even better than the 10 or 11 percent that we tend to quote around here. So that's where we're getting those numbers before. We're not talking about after inflation or this and that. We're just saying that's the rate of return. That's what it is. And so that's where that comes from. Dave, do you want to add anything to that?

1:49:13Dave Ramsey:No, that's it. That's the average annual rate of return. That's what it is. And so the stock market has averaged. The S &P 500 is the most accurate measure of the stock market, has averaged 11.8 % since it started. And again, in 2023, it was 26%. 2024, it was 25%. 2025, it was 18%. This year, it's up 8 % as of today. And this is halfway through the year. So if it annualized that, that'd be 16%. So all of those four years will beat the average. but that means there's some years that don't beat the average that's where an average comes from but it still beats high yield savings account of three or four percent every year except occasionally it's down but i mean if you go back and look the number of years that it was actually down it's it's almost none okay um three or four out of 25 that kind of thing and so um you know You just, that's what you're looking at.

1:50:18Dave Ramsey:And, well, I've always heard, well, I know what you always heard, what you heard from people that didn't know what they were talking about. That's the actual deal. Go pull it up. Pull up the S &P 500 index and look at it for yourself. You can look at the charts. Google will pop them right up for you. And it's pretty simple to do. It's not really rocket science. So that, and so the other reason I use 10 % on something like that is it's really easy for everyone listening to visualize. Yeah. 50K is 10 % of 500. You don't have to do a lot of, you know, fancy math to get there. I mean, you can do that if you got out of the third grade.

1:50:56Dave Ramsey:And so I can put that out there and someone riding in their car don't have a car wreck trying to calculate this, right? And so it's just we throw it out there. But that's, you know, again, some years might be eight and some years might be 28. But the average is about 11.8. And so that's where that comes from. Samantha is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Samantha. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. So my question is, I'm about 20K in debt, 17 of that being on a car loan. But I currently live in my mother's home. She owns it. I don't pay rent or mortgage.

1:51:40but um she can be kind of controlling and you know she has threatened like for me to leave at any time and my question is do I pause baby step number two and paying off all this debt or and leave or do I try to pay off all this debt first how old are you I'm 33

1:52:02Dave Ramsey:and why are you at 33 years old living in your mother's home Oh, well, I was in a domestic violence situation until my mid-20s. I got divorced with three young kids. And then I was in with my parents when my dad was sick and dying. He passed away. And then my mom's sister's husband also passed away. So they moved into a home together. And my mom gave me this home. But she never signed it over to me. Okay, got it. That makes a lot more sense. Okay. And how much do you make a year? About 45. And how old are your babies now? They are 9, 10, and 11. Okay. And you've got an awfully expensive car, don't you?

1:52:48Yeah, I messed up on that really bad.

1:52:51Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you did. Hmm. Well, I can't tell from, I mean, it sounds like you've gone from one toxic relationship to another to another. Yeah. Um, and, um, now the latest one is your mother. Yeah. Why is she, why is she threatening to kick you out when you say she's controlling? What's that mean? Um, on the day to day, she's not so bad. Like she told me I can do whatever I want, that this is my house or whatever. But then like, if I were to make any kind of decision that she's not in alignment with, she's like, well, then you can just leave. About the house or about your life? Anything. Give me an example.

1:53:32So, okay, we have a vacation coming in August that we really can't afford. Well, I can't afford to go on, but she's paid for everything. I'm afraid to even tell her I don't want to go because I'm afraid that will cause backlash. Okay, I see. Okay. Your mom has a lot of money? Is she wealthy?

1:53:58She's middle class. She's doing okay.

1:54:04Dave Ramsey:So here's what I would do. I would leave. Yeah. Life's too short. You at some point in your life have to be able to make a decision without a domestic violence partner or an abusive mother. At some point in your life, you've got to reach a point that you get some healing. And you need to get away from this. What do you take home every month? How can we find you something you can afford? Yeah. Monthly, I'm about$2 ,600. Yeah, you're going to be in a super cheap rental of some kind that's going to be uncomfortable. But you've got to choose which hard thing you're going to do. Hard thing is putting up with your mother or hard thing is putting up with a rental place that's not pleasant because that's where you're going.

1:54:53Dave Ramsey:Or the other hard thing is put up with your mother. Now, what I might do is this. I might catch her in a good mood and say, Mom, we've got to change the way we interact. And after everything I have been through, I cannot sit on an unstable situation where every time you get mad, you threaten to throw me out. And so if you're not going to deed this to me by the end of next week, I'm going to have to move, Mom. And give her a shot at deeding it to you. Right. I've previously tried that. The home needs repairs. Then leave. And I brought it up to her. Then leave. I was like, okay. Then leave. If you're not going to play through on that, Samantha, if you're not going to stand up and say, either give it to me and I'll deal with the repairs and I'll deal with the house and it'll be mine, but I can't live in a situation emotionally anymore where someone's constantly pulling the rug out from under me.

1:56:02Dave Ramsey:Where every time I go to sit down somebody pulls the chair out. Like a second grade prank. I've been through too much to live like this anymore. And if you're not going to deed it to me right now I'm gone.

1:56:36Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar Budget app, because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress.

1:57:16Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

1:57:45Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, James 5 and 16. Therefore, confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. Les Brown said, in the end, it is the person you become, not the things you achieve, that is most important. Well, we wish we could get to every call here on the show and every question, but we can't. You can't get through on the lines most of the time. But, hey, we appreciate those of you that do. If you can't get through and you've got a money question you want to answer over your situation, head over to our website.

1:58:25Dave Ramsey:Use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on only proven Ramsey principles. It's going to give you a Ramsey-only answer. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or just click the link in the description or the podcast or on YouTube. Katie is with us in Seattle. Hi, Katie. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Great. Okay, so I have, my husband and I have a bit of a quarrel. So we're on baby step two, and we're trying to decide how you decide what a necessary, what's a necessary expense, because we're differing on something.

1:59:11What are the things you're differing on? It's really one thing. Most of the budget, when we've gone through, has gone well. But we have someone who cleans our home once a month, because we both work full time. We both push 50, 60 hours outside of the home. We have four children, and it's just—

1:59:31Dave Ramsey:How much is that expense? It's$320 a month. And what's your household income? $240. How old are the kids? They might be your cleaning service. That's why I'm asking. I wish they were less than one, three, nine, and we have an 11-year-old. You mean you can't get less than one to do any work? Wow, that's shocking. I wish. Wow. Who's taking care of less than one while you're doing 60 hours a week? We have daycare, so we just try to work our schedules so that, you know, the other one is. Okay. And is that high amount of hours, that's to pay off debt, right? That's a temporary thing, or is that just the nature of your jobs?

2:00:23Um, right now, the nature of our jobs, mine should be easing up in the next couple months just because it's not, I'm feeling very burned out, but, um, my husband's will be for the foreseeable future.

2:00:37Dave Ramsey:What's the, uh, what's the amount of debt again, not counting the house? Oh yeah. Um, we have 87 in student loans and then another 40 in consumer. Eight of that's a car and then the rest is credit cards. So just one car? we have two cars but the other one's paid off yeah okay okay with your income and your hours uh 325 is not the end of the world it's not going to keep you from winning yeah okay and the fact that you're stressing over it means you really are squeezing this budget trying okay that means that means that's a good sign because it means you guys are considering everything. You know, you're pushing the pendulum to the other side because you make a lot of money and if you push it away, if you really are squeezing everything else out, you're going to knock this debt out really quick, aren't you?

2:01:32I think we could have it done. You know, we have daycare and all that, but I think still under a year easily. Yeah.

2:01:40Dave Ramsey:And so, and 325 doesn't change that. that was my thought and it isn't a representation the way you've described this not granted you're making the case for the 325 so we'll have to consider that but yeah but uh but even even with that said the way you're discussing it and the fact that you are discussing it tells me everything else is probably squeezed pretty good i would like to think so we're it's really been over the last couple months and we're just every month we tighten down more and more. Now what you could do is you could, you could, if you really wanted to get extreme, you could test it.

2:02:18Cause I'm guessing 320, is that somebody coming once a week? Yeah. No, it's, it's once a month. That's once a month. You need to find a different cleaning service. That's what I'm going to tell you because that's expensive. Um, but I was going to say, if you wanted to test it, you could always go back. If you test it and everything just goes crazy and your house is a as you could always go back. But if you wanted to test it and say, can we get through? Can we make this work? You could. Not saying you have to.

2:02:47Dave Ramsey:Because I think you have cut out eating out, right? Yes. And you have cut out vacations, right? It's probably been the most painful. You have cut out vacations. Yes, you're not going anywhere. Okay. And so the two of you are working together and you're pushing everything through. And again, it's does the math matter or does this represent something emotionally in the behavior that matters? And I would say no on both of those after talking to you. So that means I keep them. Let me go back to this a second because I'm a mom too. I have two. I don't have four. But when you said once a month, it did hit me different because the part of the cleaning service that you want is the things that you're not going to touch, right?

2:03:27Like it's you want them to clean the blinds and you want them to vacuum in the couch. Those are things you don't have time to do. But the day-to-day stuff of doing the dishes and sweeping the floor and vacuuming, you have to do that stuff anyway. So I kind of, for that reason, I kind of do feel like, cause you still have to do the laundry, right? Like you got to wear clothes. So I kind of feel like you don't need this. If you said they're coming once a week and that's what's keeping things going, that feels different than their, cause what are they doing once a month? Uh, they like deep clean.

2:04:02So they get like, you know, baseboards and floors and windows. But we got dogs and children. I actually think I disagree. I think that you could let that go for a while. And if there's a little bit of dust on the blinds, I think you would be okay.

2:04:15Dave Ramsey:So, Katie, we're absolutely no help. We're not. Because Jade is on your husband's side and I'm on your side. I'm sorry. So we're no good at all. We're no help at all. I think it's good either way, truthfully. You are. Yes, you are. There's not a wrong answer. There's not a slap my hand on the table and go, you people are stupid. She does have an 11-year-old, though. Do what? She does have an 11-year-old who can get the Swiffer up on the ceiling fan. That's all she needs. Wow. Send them to the salt mines. I like it. Dave, come on now. You know the stuff you were doing at 11. I don't have to tell you what I was doing at 11.

2:04:55We were cleaning. We were the cleaning service.

2:04:59Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Well, that's true. Not the one-year-old, but yeah. No, just the 11-year-old. Again, I'm always good if somebody is smart enough to ask the question, they're probably okay. That's the point. It's when they don't ask the question, the ones listening that we just gave permission accidentally, that scares me more than Katie. I agree with that. I do agree with that. So, Katie, you and your husband talk it through. You could try it with or without, but what's probably going to happen is you guys are going to continue to get more and more and more intense, and you're probably going to cut them for three or four months and finish off the debt.

2:05:37Dave Ramsey:And then when they come back, you'll appreciate it. And it'll probably be something like that that you decide on. But again, I don't think there's an absolute one answers in the stupid column and one's in the smart column. I'm surprised. Usually you're the more frugal one. Yeah, I am. But I'm always looking at ratios. Yeah, that's true. And they do. $240 ,000 a year. If they were bringing home$3 ,000 a month, Maid's gone. No brainer. But they're making$250 ,000 a year. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and she's not working 20 hours a week part time. She's working 80 hours, 60, 80 hours. She just has a high power job.

2:06:14That's the other thing.

2:06:15Dave Ramsey:She's not there. So, you know, but if you call me up and go, well, I have a remote work from home. Oh, shut up and clean the house. For real. Really. I would have been down, you know, like that whole different thing. But I'm just listening to the whole picture and the ratios. videos and that's very interesting. It's an interesting discussion. It is. Very cool. Usually we're telling people, yeah, cut back subscriptions. If you're investing, pause investing. You won't regret it if you cut her. No. And bring them back later. Bring somebody back later. You'll be okay. You'll be okay. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books.

2:06:51Dave Ramsey:We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:05Thank you.