You Have To Fight For Peace And Quit Living In Chaos

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22:12Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jamin and Lindsey are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Great. Honored to be here. Honored to have you. Where do you all live? Fort Wayne, Indiana. Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $600 ,000. Oh my gosh. How long did this take? About seven years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Started around$130 ,000 and up to$270 ,000. Cool. What do y 'all do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. And I'm a CPA in corporate finance. Awesome. Very cool. So I'm going to guess seven years and$600 ,000, you might have paid off your house.

22:52Dave Ramsey:That's correct. Wow, looking at weird people. You got it. No mortgage. Oh, look how pretty. How old are you guys? I'm 33. Wow, it's a nice house. Thank you. And it's a paid for house at 33 years old. What's this house worth? About$800 to$900. Cool. Oh my gosh, guys. And I'm guessing that you also have investments. We do. About what? So retirement, we're around$700 ,000 currently and have a couple hundred thousand in liquid brokerage. Yeah, so you're approaching$2 million net worth. All right. And you're 33 years old. That's pretty stinking incredible. That's amazing, y 'all. Way to go. I love weird people.

23:33Dave Ramsey:Normals broke. You guys are like millennials that are millionaires. This is so fun. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, Baby Steps millionaires. Thank you. Excellent job. All right, so$600 ,000, how much of that was the house? That was the house entirely. That was it. Okay, just straight up. Let's kill it. Let's kill it. let's kill it seven years so almost 100 grand a year boom boom boom while you just while you live life yep i mean and sometimes living on not much i mean if you started at 130 i mean you guys were yeah we picked up some steam as we progressed through our careers as well and started to you know add a bit more as we went but we've we're pretty intense uh so when we've when we have a goal we tend to go after it pretty hard i can tell yeah so six years ago what started all of this then when you guys are like, we want to pay off our house, which sounds insane.

24:21So people, right.

24:23Dave Ramsey:So you're in your mid twenties, you know, correct. So I mentioned we're fairly intense. Um, but we, we had a starter home very early in our marriage. So we really started our, our debt-free journey a couple of years into our marriage. Um, and we, we had a dream, we call it our five-year dream. And, uh, our dream was to not only pay off our starter home, but to build towards a strong down payment towards a larger home that we could have our growing family grow and just love a new home where we can spread out. So we have three little girls, and they've really been our inspiration for so much of what we've done.

25:02So sweet. Oh, my gosh. So they were born through this process because I don't think they're seven yet, right? That's right. So they were all through the paying off the house journey. They've been part of the journey all along.

25:11Dave Ramsey:So how'd you get tied into the Ramsey stuff? So initially, one of our employers early out of college offered your Smart Dollar program as part of the benefits package. And so that got us really very early in our marriage engaged in terms of how do we combine our finances? How do we get on the correct track? You know, so much of what has been part of our journey is, again, making a goal and, you know, going after it, but also having that disciplined approach. You know, we were both athletes in college and goal-oriented people. She was the better athlete, I do have to add. So I've been chasing her all along.

25:49But when we have a goal, we just go for it. And we try to make as much of our investing journey and debt payoff journey as automatic as we can. And that's something that we started very early in our marriage. So we've really been all in on debt payoff and then, you know, investing into our retirement plan just from the beginning and having that part of our natural rhythm of how we live.

26:13Dave Ramsey:So it really has been following the baby steps from back in the smart dollar days when you were with the other employer. Exactly right. And then plug into the podcast, I assume, and other stuff as you're going along. That's right. So there's a lot of people on that four, five, and six journey where they're throwing extra at the house. Because baby step two, right, we talk about scorched earth. You do nothing. You live nothing. And then once you hit baby steps four, five, and six, you know, you can kind of ease off. So I know you guys are intense people, you said, but was there any, uh, like, what was the balance?

26:38We, people ask us this a lot of like, okay, so how do we know? Like, is it okay to go on vacation? Cause sometimes we're like, yes, enjoy your life while you're throwing extra at the house. How did you guys manage and balance that? Right. We made sure to make sure our girls had what they needed first. And, um, we just, we followed the every dollar budget plan and we saw where our money was going and if we had extra, we just kind of weighed, should we go on vacation? Should we put it at the mortgage? We kind of just, you know, made a plan that way and took it month by month and we're here now. That's amazing.

27:10Dave Ramsey:So what was the sport, Lindsay, that you were so good at? I was a softball player. Okay. All right. He was baseball, so kind of. Oh, there you go. It just matched. In the same family. Fun, fun stuff. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, So goal-oriented, intense. You follow the every dollar plan. You work together, obviously. A lot of communication, I can tell. Yep. Because you're, I mean, you really are in sync on this. And we can even see it. For those of you that are listening rather than watching, after doing debt-free screams for all these years, we can sometimes see the body language, you know, how much you're in sync.

27:45Dave Ramsey:And you guys are dialed in. There's no question about that. Like you said, laser focused. Is there anything else you would add to say, okay, if I want to be out of the way, I'm debt, house and everything in my thirties and be approaching a$2 million net worth, what's the key? What are the two things, five things, whatever that they ought to do? I think just knowing that you're going to have to work hard, make compromises, sacrifices along the way. If you have that goal, if you have that dream, make a plan to get there and just work hard. And it pays off. If your goal is worth having, then it's worth the effort to put in.

28:20Dave Ramsey:I have a sense with y 'all that you have a system in place that kind of the system, once you stuck it in there, was intense. Yeah, because you said automatic. But it was automatic and all that. And then that also left you some room to have a good life. Yes. I mean, I don't have a sense you lived in a cave and collected Lent. No, no, not at all. We just made it a point to live below our means. We just, you know, didn't, we weren't really extravagant people. We didn't go out all the time. We were kind of boring in that sense, but we knew what we wanted and we thought that was more important. We've been made fun of being a little tight, but the beauty of it is for the next, the rest of our lives together, we'll be able to grow and live and give.

29:10How did it feel when the first month you didn't have a mortgage payment and you were like, there's no money to throw at anything. There's extra money here and there's no payment. We were kind of confused. We were like, what do we spend it on now? It's a odd feeling, but it's a blessing, and we're excited about the future for sure.

29:26Dave Ramsey:What's the first big thing you're going to do? Well, we've been here in Tennessee. We were over in Pigeon Forge for a few days with the young ones, and the young ones don't know this yet, but Mom and Dad are going to take a little Caribbean trip here in the fall. There we go. Now we're talking. I get to spend time with Grandma, so that's fine. That's good. They'll love that. They'll love that. and so well bring them up and let's introduce them what are their names and ages rachel's right they're cute as butt so so we have aubrey who's six and hallie is three and then natalie is 18 months oh my goodness and that's a really good why right there why you would be intense why you would be intentional why you would make uh decisions to compromise on things and because those kids right there can do anything they want to do the rest of their lives because their mom Mom and dads are champions.

30:16Look at the two little ones. They've been working on this.

30:21Dave Ramsey:I love it. Very good. All right. Jamin and Lindsey, Aubrey, Hallie, and Natalie. Girls, y 'all ready to scream I'm debt free? They've been practicing. All right. Here we go. $600 ,000 paid off in seven years. House and everything. Baby steps millionaires in their early 30s. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt free! Woo!

30:52Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

30:55Dave Ramsey:Oh, my gosh. Oh, guys, you have to understand that that middle one right there, when she is 30 years old, she's going to start to realize that the price her mom and dad paid has allowed them to become worth $30 million,$40 million. That's where they're headed. Those of the mom and dad have completely changed their family tree. They've completely changed their family tree. And ultimate with peace, complete peace, that money will never be a subject of stress and struggle. There's such a way. Never again. And that's the example they've said. It's perfect. It's amazing. It's just perfect.

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33:11Dave Ramsey:buying or selling a home is a big deal and with all the clickbait headlines that are out there and the conflicting data and the drama it's hard to know what's really happening let me tell you anytime you see that much drama on something you need to go to facts hard data facts are your friends and we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand median home prices stayed steady last month at about$441 ,000. That's the middle of house prices in America right now. And it's been going up about$1 ,000 a month. It's really not moving much, but it's not going down. The number of homes for sale hit over a million for the second month in a row.

33:51Dave Ramsey:And this is the first time we've had that much inventory since 2019, but we still have more demand than inventory. So again, prices are not going down. Buyers have more options and they have negotiating power because for sellers are facing more competition. That's good. The average 15 year fixed rates still under 6%. That's good to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. Go to Ramsey solutions.com slash market or click the show notes. So if you're on podcast or YouTube and we'll help you out. Brendan is in Boston. Hi Brendan, how are you?

34:25Dave Ramsey:I'm good Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So for the last 11-12 years I have been working two jobs. One like a let's call it my main job 40 hours a week. The other was like a real side gig that I ended up growing and makes roughly the same amount as the main job. So what do you make, though? Right now, I make myself, not including my wife, I make around$215 ,000 a little. There's a commission in there. So this year, it's looking like$215 ,000. And that's the two jobs combined? Correct. Okay, and your wife makes what? She makes$60 ,000. Okay, so you have a$265 ,000 household income in Boston, Massachusetts.

35:17All right, I'm with you.

35:19Dave Ramsey:Correct. Yeah. So, uh, I'm really looking to slow down. I've been waking up 4 a.m., 3, 4 a.m. for, for years. And it's getting to a point of like, all right, you know, I don't think I can do this for much longer. So we ended up saving about, we have in savings a little over a million dollars. Good for you. So at this point, the only debt we have, we never have credit card debt. We haven't had that in like 10 years. The only debt we have is two car leases, and they're relatively cheap for what we could technically afford. And then the house, which is around a little tiny bit under$400K left on the mortgage.

36:08We bought the house at$650,$645 actually. And it's saying it's worth$920 ,000, but let's call it$850 ,000.

36:17Dave Ramsey:Okay. So I feel like we've been doing good. And to be honest, like I found you guys on that. How long have you been making$265 ,000? This year is probably my best year. Last year was just under. Last year was like$190 ,000. I mean, you've been making roughly this kind of money for 10 years. I would say no, no, no, no, no. Like the last four years. Okay. Well, you've done a great job of saving. You've not done a great job of buying cars. You bought cars the most expensive possible way. So the million dollars is just in a savings account, like a high-yield savings account? No, no, no, no, no, no.

36:58Dave Ramsey:It's spread throughout index funds, mutual funds, all sorts of things. Okay. So what would happen if you paid off the cars and paid off your house? We would have... 600K. Yeah,$600 ,000. We thought about that, and we talked ourselves out of it. We have a 2.75 mortgage. Why? Why do you want to stay in debt? Well, it is too, at least in our thought process. If you could borrow another$200 ,000 and put it into mutual funds and be further in debt on your house, would you do that? I wouldn't, no. Then why not pay it off? It's the same thing. i i know i know it's like uh but to me i'm like okay if i put it in an index fund okay brendan let's say brendan i've been doing this 30 years yeah okay i've never talked someone into paying off their home that called me back hating me ever ever i mean yeah all right and and we did we've done stuff and here's the second piece okay we've done the largest study of millionaires ever done and you're a millionaire, you have a net worth of over a million dollars, way to go.

38:09Dave Ramsey:But the number of people that are millionaires that told us the way I became a millionaire was I borrowed on my home or I didn't pay off my home so that I could do bigger investing is really close to zero. The vast majority of the millionaires we interviewed said, I got my home paid off and I use the extra cash flow to increase my investments. right and that became and i had the peace of mind and i wasn't working like a stinking dog man you work like a dog you work like an animal that's my and you have been for a long time yeah i mean that's my second thing so now it let's say okay i built this the the what as i referred to it my main job i make about 115 the other one i make about 100 so i built this other thing up from absolutely nothing to, uh, it's, uh, influencer marketing.

39:03So, uh, my friends are in the company, um, years ago, they asked for help. They didn't know what to do. People wanted to work with them. They didn't know how I had no clue how to do it, but I've been in sales my whole life, but I figured it out in six months. I turned it into like millions and millions in revenue. Way to go.

39:20Dave Ramsey:I'm so proud of you. Uh, Hey, listen, here's what I would do if I were you, I'm going to solve for peace. Before, for the last decade, you were solving for income, and you did it very well, and you saved it very well. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. But now I'm going to solve for peace. You've lived like no one else. Now let's live like no one else. And here's how that sounds. If I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know today, I would become very, very wealthy by using this formula. First thing I would do is I'd pay off my house and my cars. The second thing I would do is I'd hire someone and begin to train them in the influencer world so you don't have to work all the time.

40:00Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I thought about that, actually. And that's your side gig, right? That's the$100 ,000. So quit and quit the day. Would you quit the day job? Not yet. I'm going to grow this business to be$300K. I'm going to grow this business to a top line of$300K, and then I'm going to quit the day job. But I'm also going to quit doing all the stinking work by myself. You have earned the margin to do that. So train somebody. But he doesn't have time because he's got a 40-hour-a-week job. This other one seems way more liquid. But there's no sense of giving up$100 ,000 right now. We don't want to do that in this conversation.

40:30Dave Ramsey:You can do that later. Right now, give up$50 ,000 by hiring a kid that knows more about this stuff than you anyway and put them in there and start training them how you turn this into money and let them carry some of the weight of this. And you don't work like a dog, but you don't have to give up the businesses. And you don't even have to give up the day job. and two years from now if you grow it enough then you give up the day job yeah yeah but right now you need to get off the treadmill you're tired yes solve solve for peace yes yeah and i would just be curious to keep kind of pushing on that brendan that run a budget if you guys had no payments house cars nothing and what she's bringing in and then just one of these jobs right that you're at about 175 then and just do the budget and just see i mean it just like at least frees you up to gosh to not wake up at yeah three four a.m.

41:25Dave Ramsey:I'm definitely not going to keep doing what you're doing if you keep doing what you're doing you're going to keep getting what you've been getting which is tired so you have worked like your butt off and and you've earned the right to bring someone in under your wing and start mentoring them you've earned the right to be debt-free because you worked your butt off that's right and it's always funny to me because it's the number one pushback we get when we tell people to take money out of your investments and pay off your house. They start talking about the spread. I can get 8 % right. And he started into all of it.

41:54And it's always telling to me whenever we have our live events, whether we're with, you know, 1 ,500 to three to 4 ,000 people, and we will ask the question somewhere in the content of, okay, how many of you all have paid off your home? And you've been doing this for three decades. So in the crowd, there's usually, there's a good portion of people that are there.

42:11Dave Ramsey:30%. And so people are raising their hands. And then we always ask them, okay leave your hand up if you regretted it and never once in a sea of people that have done it never once has someone kept their hand up and said i so regretted paying off my house because the truth is listen if you pay it off and you hate it you can go get a mortgage that's what i said you can go borrow back on your house if you absolutely hate it so trust me brandon they'll help you do that they'll help you do that by friday it won't take take about 20 minutes to get you a new mortgage i mean if you hate being debt free i've just never it's not i've never experienced it in 30 some odd years of doing this.

42:46Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you're a good dude, man. You deserve a little rest.

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44:37Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work, let they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of The Ramsey Show. Ramsey personality, my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Shonda is in Chicago. Hey, Shonda, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, I called in to get some financial advice. I'm a single parent. I have about$185 ,000 in credit card debt, but it's from personal and business combined together. together.

45:32Dave Ramsey:$185 ,000 in credit card debt. What the crap did you buy, Shonda? Okay, so I lost my brother in 2020, and so it was hard for me to go back to work. So I started, I also started a business, and starting up the business, it started kind of slow, and so I was using the money to basically pay for bills. Did the business become successful? It did not. It's still slow. So it failed? Yes. Are you still doing it? Yes. And what kind of money does it make?

46:18Maybe$600 a month.

46:21Dave Ramsey:$8 ,000 a month? No,$600. $600 a month. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's different. Okay. What is the business? It's credit repair. And how do you spend money on credit repair? I'm spending money on it. I mean, you said, so you mean you're just, you were borrowing money to eat because you weren't making a living. Yes. Yes. And not only that, I was investing in different things with the money as well. So, like, basically, I tried to do the flipping the homes, and I was pulling money off the course to do that. So it was like I was losing money trying to do different investments.

47:10What are you doing now for work? On top of paying my bills with you. I work in security.

47:15Dave Ramsey:And what do you make? $40 ,000. What's the most money you ever made in your life in a year?

47:28$60 ,000. Okay.

47:30Dave Ramsey:All right. I have a degree in criminal justice. Okay. All right. Is this all the debt you have, Shonda? Are there credit cards? Are there any student loans or car loans? I have student loans and a car loan, yes, and I have a home. Okay. What do you owe on the car? The car owe about$25 ,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. And what do you owe on your student loans? 36 ,000. And all this is on top of the 185, correct? Yes. So my thing was, I was thinking about bankruptcy, but I was like, let me get some other, but I don't see no other way. I didn't look for the job. That's not, I can't really do that because I have a younger daughter that's 10 and I have an older daughter that started college in August.

48:20So she wouldn't be able to help as much with my child if I did decide to go and get a second job. So, yeah. Okay.

48:29Dave Ramsey:Well, you have a car that you can't afford, and student loans are not bankruptable. Oh, yeah. Okay. So they're going to stay there no matter what happens. And, I mean, you could turn the car in in the bankruptcy. And if you're going to file bankruptcy, please, God, turn the car in. Because it's just, you make$40 ,000. and you don't need a$25 ,000 car, period. There's no planet that that works on.

49:04Dave Ramsey:And so I remember being scared to death 35 years ago when Sharon and I lost everything, Shonda, and I was overwhelmed with the debt and the collectors calling and everything else. And the only thing I did right in that period of time was I really wanted to dig in and figure out what I had done that set me up for this, what mistakes I made, what philosophies or things I believe that were lies. Okay? And you told me two or three different things that are Internet, TikTok, get-rich-quick schemes. even your even your credit repair thing was a get rich quick scheme it's it's not it's not even a viable business we don't do it because it's not viable can't make enough to pay somebody to do it here or i'd be doing it um and the irony is you're doing credit repair that's an irony uh that's ridiculous and so um the uh um you know so so but you've fallen for these things trying to get um to get ahead rather than developing a steady career path with your criminal justice degree and background that moves you up up up up up to where you start making some really good money if during the time that you tried all these things that were get rich quick things if instead you had taken that same amount of energy and poured it into your career, you'd probably be making 100K right now.

50:43Correct.

50:44Dave Ramsey:And that's what I, that's, if you've got to go through this kind of hell, like, and I'm sorry you're there, for goodness sakes, learn the lessons from the hell, okay? And that's what Sharon and I said, if we're going to go through this, we're going to learn what was broken in Dave that set us up for this fall. And we looked at that and said, okay, why did I fall for building a house of cards? What was driving inside of me? What was broken? And it was a spiritual walk in my faith, my God walk that allowed me to repair the insides as we were restarting our lives after a bankruptcy. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to talk about selling my car and getting out of that.

51:31Dave Ramsey:And I'm going to talk about what I can do in the criminal justice field to add to my income and move up in my career and just don't pay the credit cards and don't pay the student loans for a while. And let's see if you could get your budget set up right. Even if it doesn't look like where you can pay it all today, I don't see how you can pay it with where you are today, but where you are today is not your destiny. Your destiny is to make more. yeah and so um if you just don't pay them and they don't ever get around to suing you and the student loans just stack up and the credit cards just stack up and go bad cut them all up get rid of the stupid car payment get you a hoopty to get back and forth to work and get get out of this dadgum six hundred dollar car payment because you got ripped off on that thing too i'm positive and then just let your let your stuff just go bad and then as you start making some money you could start working, you know, pay off the student loan first and then start.

52:29Well, usually they'll set up, especially with the credit cards. Credit cards will settle for pennies on the dollar. Yeah. Yeah.

52:33Dave Ramsey:I mean, you could go through and settle these credit cards over the next five years and, you know, end up getting completely out of debt for 25 or$30 ,000. But you got to, you're, that's a long way from where you are right now. So hang on, we're going to sign you up for Financial Peace University and for every dollar our budgeting. We're going to pay for it to help you get started. because I remember being scared. But you've got to start aiming at something steady, steady growth. Be the tortoise, don't be the hare.

53:18Dave Ramsey:You know what makes a summer party great? Good friends, cold drinks, and great food. But you know what can bring the party down? Spending way too much money to make it all happen. And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls at Aldi. They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic produce, and all the stuff you need for an epic or low-key backyard barbecue without breaking the bank. There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices. So stop paying more and shop at Aldi, where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S.

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54:19Dave Ramsey:our question today is brought to you by why refi if you're struggling with defaulted private student loans. Y-Refi offers a great solution to get you back on track for a low fixed rate that has more flexibility. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Betsy in Oklahoma. A year ago, I met the man of my dreams and we've been discussing marriage. This would have thrilled me earlier in our relationship, but it causes me anxiety now because of his out-of-control spending. He filed bankruptcy and worked seven days a week at two different jobs to recover from it.

54:58Despite the experience, he is still spending close to$1 ,000 a month on stuff that he does not need, like clothes, music equipment, and hobbies that he hasn't taken up yet. He is also in therapy for this problem, but makes no behavior changes. I am scared that all the work I've put in to my own life and career over the last two decades could be impacted if it ever becomes our money like you recommend. what is a girl to do? What is a girl to do? I mean, Betsy, I think you're looking right down the scope of what your future could be. And if it gives you an anxiety now, not married to them, that's probably going to magnify once you guys get married.

55:38So, I mean, it's one of those things that money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce in America. And there's a reason why, because people get into a marriage and they cannot agree on their money. and it causes so much conflict and strife that it's not even worth it anymore. And so if you are not in alignment and feel comfortable with him on this subject, then moving forward into marriage, I don't see a way that that's possible. So I'm so sorry, Betsy. But I believe that there are other great men out there that could be the man of your dreams. I know it's kind of a buzzkill in the romance world, but I just don't know if there's like a soulmate kind of thing.

56:18I think you can be attracted and be compatible with a lot of different people. And so this would just probably not end well, Betsy, from what we've seen and what studies show.

56:31Dave Ramsey:So what you're saying is the man of your dreams, once you dug a little deeper, is the man of your nightmares. And so, you know, the first few weeks or months of the romance were fun until we got to understand that the guy has basically got issues and he's immature. and he's got problems, and you're going to marry a little boy who just buys whatever he wants to buy whenever he wants to buy it. And that's a problem. It's a problem. Yep. I'm sorry. Yeah. And it's been a year. What a girl to do. What's a girl to do? Don't be a girl. Be a woman. What's a woman to do? She wouldn't put up with that crap.

57:15There you go. Dave's Marriage Advice 101. Well, I'm telling you.

57:21Dave Ramsey:It's true. I mean, yeah. You think about powerful, confident, strong women. They don't put up with this kind of garbage. And that's what you want, by the way. And it is. It's the immaturity to me. Yeah. That's what it screams is that. And the idea that there's not going to be stability. Clothes, musical equipment, and hobbies that he hasn't actually taken up yet. Yeah, that sounds like a 16-year-old. Oh, I was going to say my 8-year-old. Yeah. No, she's way sharper than that. No, she's my spender, though. That's my thing. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, she, you know, it sounds like a child to the point.

58:02I'm like, it's with no consequences is what it sounds like. Except he did. He filed bankruptcy.

58:07Dave Ramsey:And then filed, and then is in therapy but doesn't change behaviors. Yeah. So there we go. I've been helping people get margin back in their budget for over 30 years, and switching your phone plan is one of the easiest wins out there, especially with Boost Mobile. Boost gives you unlimited talk, text, and data for just$25 a month, and I'm not talking about some promo rate that goes up later. That$25 price is locked in forever. No contracts, no headaches, and with their 30-day money-back guarantee, there's no risk. So stop wasting money. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey today. Restrictions apply.

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59:11Dave Ramsey:John is with us. John is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, John, how are you? Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. I'm a college football coach. I've been coaching for about 16 years. My wife and I have been on the plan since 2018. Fast forward seven years and we're in baby step seven, also baby step millionaire. So we are fully on board. Way to go. Thank you. Yep. We're fully on board. My question today centers around whether we should buy a home. I called you about three years ago and we were renters at that point. And really my worry was, hey, we move a lot as coaches.

59:54Dave Ramsey:Should we buy a house or should we just stay renters? You told us to buy. We're sitting here three and a half years later, and we paid that starter home off. But now we've got two little girls. Mama wants a new house, and she wants a bigger house. And really, to keep it simple, my worry is that we are going into year four here at this current job. Now, if we do move, my worry is that we move and then we've got to move, you know, again really quickly. And her worry is that if we don't move, we look up, we're here for 10 years, and we're still in the same three-bedroom townhome. So that's kind of the question is a philosophical one on what you think.

1:00:40Dave Ramsey:Well, you know, the current house is worth what? $460,$470. And the upgrade house is worth what? We're looking at right around a million. Have you got the 600? No, sir. So you're going to have to go back into debt? Yes, sir, in that case. Okay. How much do you guys have in savings, John? Nothing. Everything we've got is, you know, other than our, you know, emergency fund, everything we've got is in the home equity and, you know, IRAs and retirement. Okay. Okay. How much do you make a year? uh together right around 500 okay so really in a short period of time you've done this with this fabulous income yes sir okay all right um no i would not move up in house right now you don't have any money and um when you can save up and put a bunch of at least half of the move up in cash, I would do it and take a small mortgage maybe.

1:01:48Dave Ramsey:That would fit, but I do not want 100 % of your net worth tied up in your house. Gotcha. And currently we're right around half and half, just like, you know, the studies always show. I'm sorry. Where's the other half? We're 500 or 450, 460 in house and we're 500 or so in retirement. Oh, in retirement accounts. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yes, sir. Then it's not 100%. Okay. That's not as concerning then. But, I mean, you have absolutely no cash to put towards this transaction is what you're telling me. No, and this question is assuming that we would have, you know, our home equity plus cash to throw towards it.

1:02:31Dave Ramsey:I mean, let's say you're going to move from$400 to$800 and you put$200 cash with it and took a$200 mortgage. I'm probably up for that one. Gotcha. But right now you're just financing 100 % of a want upgrade. And it's not got anything to do with the stability. It's just got to do with the math ratios. That makes sense. But philosophically, you're saying the stability doesn't matter to you. No, because in Raleigh, North Carolina, you can sell an$800 ,000 house. Okay. Because an$8 million house, we might be stuck in it. Right. Got it. Might not be able to move an$8 million in Raleigh real quick. But$800 ,000, that's prime market right there.

1:03:17Dave Ramsey:You can sell that thing in 30 seconds. if you did change cities. So you can turn this over. But yeah, I think you just save for another year like maniacs with your great income. Yeah, and just know if you did take another job, like if you did worst case scenario and the fear happens, oh my gosh, we have to move. You sell it. Well, you sell it and or if it doesn't sell right away, just go rent somewhere so you don't have two mortgages until it sells. I mean, there's still ways to be able to do it and handle the situation, especially with that yeah with y 'all's income so you you would land somewhere and uh and an 800 ,000 house will sell until it does sell you're a renter in the new city um if that scenario goes down uh but i i know i don't want to finance a hundred percent of an upgrade that's a want uh her her desire with your household income is reasonable but you guys just haven't executed on your plan long enough yet to be in a position to do that desire.

1:04:19Yeah, but in the next, you know, year or two, you guys could be there.

1:04:22Dave Ramsey:Probably save a couple hundred a year. Yeah, for sure, for sure. You know, if you watch what you're doing, you ought to be able to if you're making 500. And so, yeah, and so let's talk about that. Let's talk about not doing big, crazy, wild, out-of-control vacations that do small, inexpensive ones. Let's talk about other expenditures in the household that are, you know, some of them are reasonable and some of them are not. And let's talk about, let's talk about we want a house bad enough to not do some of those things and limit the household budget. And not on beans and rice, but just being very intentional and saying, got this great income, we're going to focus it on.

1:05:01I mean, God forbid you live like you're making 200 and you bank 300. I think we're doing pretty good, right?

1:05:07Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I think you can do that. Pretty good place. Dale is in Memphis. Hey, Dale, what's up? This is great to talk to you. I'm really excited. I have an issue to decide whether to pull out of the market and put everything in annuities. Oh, no. Who would tell you to do that? Well, I've got two brokers. They're kind of dueling a little bit. My IRA is with, I don't know if you want to give the name of that, one company, and I've got a money market account with the second company. And I was commenting to my broker, Jared, at the second company that I need to start taking some money out. And so he got on the ball.

1:05:46He wants my business, basically. So he's come up with a plan to take everything out of company A and put it into annuities in a four-step plan, have one that matures in one year, some at two, and some at three, and some at four.

1:06:03Dave Ramsey:The second guy is not a financial advisor. He works for an insurance company. He's going to be making a lot of commissions off you, Dale. That's what I'm... I don't like annuities. No, I'm not doing it. No, no. Second guy's fired. That's easy. Processed by elimination. No, I mean, he's an insurance guy. He's not an investment broker. Okay. The reason he wants to put you in annuities is he can't sell mutual funds. He's not licensed to. Ah, I was not aware of that. Yeah, that's how I know why he's pushing annuities. Very few people push annuities in the financial planning world unless they're insurance people.

1:06:42Dave Ramsey:Even variable annuities. Variable annuities are not horrible, but that's not where you should be first and foremost. There's very little flexibility there. How old are you? 70. And how much money is this? Okay, in my IRA, I've got$630 ,000. Money market's$146 ,000. Yeah. I could give you a complete breakdown, but I don't know. No, you don't need to be in annuities unless you're just scared to death or something, and you don't strike me as that. You're just trying to figure out how all this works is what strikes me. So let's go back to your first guy and talk to them. If you want another opinion, you could go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor.

1:07:21Dave Ramsey:Talk to one of our SmartVestor pros in the area, and they will teach you why I'm yelling no annuities. Annuities are not evil. They're not bad. The variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity. It has some advantages, but it has a lot of flexibility issues. You can't get to the money. It's very difficult to get to it inside of seven years, and you're 70 years old. And so if you're wanting to access the money, you want to move some of it into a one-year. You don't need to do all that. If you just put it in mutual funds, you can just get to it whenever you want to. I'm 64. I've got total access to everything.

1:07:58And you're past 59 and a half.

1:07:59Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Any of it I want, I can just hit. Tap into that Roth. Yep. And I can do whatever I want to do. I don't touch any of it. I don't need any of it. But I mean, I've got complete flexibility. If I want to cash a bunch of it out and go buy a big piece of real estate, which it could happen, I might do that because I'm a real estate guy. But anyway, but no, I don't have it tied up in annuities. There's just very few times I'm going to put somebody into an annuity. The variable annuities have some good elements to them. We can talk about that later, but you don't need them, Dale.

1:08:31Dave Ramsey:And I smell an insurance person's, what I smell. Yeah, I have a certain tint to it. You can smell it from here.

1:08:58Dave Ramsey:Hey, everybody, our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch, and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store today. Ramsey solutions.com slash store.

1:09:40Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, host of The Rachel Cruz Show, Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Ashley is in Baltimore, Maryland. Hi, Ashley. How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. Me and my husband are big fans. Well, we're honored. How can we help today? so uh me and my husband has been married for about 12 years we have two beautiful children and we are on our third basically we came to the terms what that you're famous for saying is we're sick and tired of being in this place we've really buckled down we got rid of everything we could possibly think of without it being the kids and i feel like i still don't know what I'm doing.

1:10:39He's working as much as he can. He has really changed his amount that he gets per month and per year. You know, over the past four years, he's currently looking for a new job. And basically my question is, is what more can I do that's not all just going to bills and there's nothing left over.

1:11:01Dave Ramsey:So what is your household income? Our household income gross is about $79 ,000 a year. Our tax return last year was about 80. My husband is a shop foreman. So as far as overtime, bonuses, things like that, it's no guarantee. Was 80 with some extra bonuses and things included or was that pretty much just standard last year? That was standard last year. Right now I have it at$79.8 per year. That's that$56 gross with just regular 40 hours and$10.50 gross for 20 hours over time. That puts it at about$66.50 gross per month. What's your house payment? We rent. We've always been renters. We've never been homeowners, unfortunately.

1:11:55Our rent is$22.50. Okay.

1:12:00Dave Ramsey:And how much is your car payment? We had two cars. We actually gave up one, and we're down to one car. It's$5.76. We owe a remaining balance of$11 ,520, and we will fully own it on February 2027. Okay. And you're a full-time mom? I'm full-time mom. I was working. I was an optician at a vision center, but my pregnancy for my first trimester was horrible. I was literally puking on my brakes and in between patients, and I had to leave my job. And our school, unfortunately, did not offer child care. It would have been almost$6 ,000 for three months while the kids were for summer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What other debt is there, Ashley, besides the car?

1:12:57Just the car, and obviously the car we gave up. We're waiting to hear back how much it will sell at auction for how much we will owe on it. I believe the balance when we did give it up was about$12 ,000.

1:13:12Dave Ramsey:So you voluntarily repoed it? Yes. I know it was horrible, but I don't know what else to do. versus yeah because you felt like you guys couldn't pay make the payment was that was that the urgency of it exactly um we moved um about two years ago into our house now um um because the kids were getting older my son and daughter um is eight and just my son just turned 11 they needed their own separate rooms and where we lived to where my husband works it was about an hour and a half commute there and back in addition to going to and from all of their schools with both cars and we said you know what let's get rid of the second car let's move closer let's cut everything in half mom won't need a car i'll just walk to the bus you know i'll grocery shop when you get off of work and we could just do this and it was a decision that we felt like basically he was going to come home to go to work one day and the car wasn't going to be there anyways so let's voluntarily give it up okay and you guys bring up what do you bring home a month not grow like after to after tax home take home is five thousand two hundred and seventy six dollars a month on average and that's with the 40 hours plus the five hours so sometimes it's more sometimes yeah so what's hard is almost half of your income is going to this rent yes that's why there's no room in your budget yeah exactly and basically i've i've turned off everything that I can turn off.

1:14:49You can't turn off enough stuff to have

1:14:51Dave Ramsey:50 % of your income go into housing. You cannot afford to live there.

1:14:59I don't know what else to do. You cannot afford to live

1:15:03Dave Ramsey:there. I don't know what else you do either, but you cannot afford to live there. You cannot have a house payment or rent that is 50 % of your take-home pay and be anything but where you are right now, which is stressed. There's no amount of cutting that is going to make that work. Even getting rid of that ridiculous car payment is not going to make that work. And so if you had no debt at all, it still doesn't work. There's no room in your budget. Yeah, you should be having an extra$1 ,000 a month. So I don't know what the answer to the equation is. I don't know whether you're going to move from Baltimore to another city.

1:15:42Dave Ramsey:I don't know whether he's going to change jobs. I don't know what the equation is. But what you're doing is not sustainable. Yeah, he's actually on his way to a job interview today because another kicker that's really stressing me out is he works for a small company and he has no benefits. We are 32 years old and he has no 401K. I'm not worried about that. You can't eat right now. You did a voluntary repo on a car. That's a long way from worrying about a 401K. And so right now, you've got to either, he's got to have his income go up dramatically and or you guys got to move. Okay. Last question.

1:16:29How can I move with our credit being as low as it is? You just did.

1:16:36Dave Ramsey:You moved into a house you couldn't afford with your credit being as low. Well, we had somebody co-sign for us. That was the only way that we can do that. So is that something that we do again to be able? No, I wouldn't do co-signing. And so, you know, so what we're saying is you took a house you couldn't afford, and now we just proved it because they wanted a co-signer because the people that rented it to you knew you couldn't afford it. So they're counting on the co-signer because they looked at your budget and they shouldn't have rented to you. I wouldn't have rented to you because I don't want your problems if I'm the landlord.

1:17:12Dave Ramsey:and that's what you guys are going to be. You're going to be a problem before this is over. So I know you don't like this, and I know you wish I wouldn't tell you the truth, but I love you enough to tell you the truth. You cannot afford to live in that house unless his income goes up substantially in the next three months, like a lot, almost double. Your house payment should be somewhere around a fourth of your take-home pay, and especially when it's rent. And so I don't know where you guys are going to live. I don't know if it's Baltimore. I don't know if you're leaving the city. I don't know if he's coming to a completely different area of the country.

1:17:51Dave Ramsey:I don't know what you're doing, but I do know that what you're doing will not work over the next 10 years. You're going to crash and crash and crash and crash. And the stress that you feel right now is going to be a constant thing. and it's because you took out too much house and stupid car payments. Those two things have got to go.

1:18:28Dave Ramsey:Hey, everybody. Our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch, and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store today. RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:19:08Dave Ramsey:If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free EveryDollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Tomorrow's George Campbell, by the way. And you get signed up for that. I think there might be room on that one still. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find an average of about$9 ,000 of margin. That's like a head start. using EveryDollar so you can get out of debt and build wealth. Plus, you can ask questions during the live Q &A. It's kind of like being on this show, but easier.

1:19:40Dave Ramsey:Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar. Josephine's in Tallahassee. Hi, Josephine. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? So, my husband and I are in disagreement about whether or not to gift one of our kids money. and one of us feels like we have been generous to them financially and it's time for them to stand on their own two feet. And the other one of us says we have much to be grateful for and we have money and we should give them the money if we can afford it. Neither one of you are right. Both of you are wrong. You know why? because neither one of you said what's best for this kid over the next 20 years one of you said i've got some money i'll just throw him lollipops and the other one said i don't care they just stand on their own neither one of you asked the question what's best for the kid okay what's best for the kid in this situation yeah that's what i'm asking so yeah so um we're retired quite comfortable financially.

1:20:54We were, um, we are on baby step seven. And, um, so you've got the money in question. How much money are they asking for? Well, they're not asking. Okay. How much money are we proposing? I'm proposing$30 ,000.

1:21:10Dave Ramsey:Why? What do they need$30 ,000 for that grown people can't go get on their own? Okay. So, um, my daughter married someone with considerable student loan debt. And, um, they have, um, not been attacking it with gazelle intensity in part because they keep being hopeful, like many young people are that their loans would be forgiven. And so they've kind of, um, not paying on it aggressively. And my son, they, they live, uh, uh, frugally. I would say they live in a modest house. They don't have any car payments. My son in-laws been driving a beater for the last couple of years and my daughter's car is starting to have some significant issues.

1:21:57So they, they have to replace their cars and they don't have the money in the bank to, um, do they not make any money to different vehicles? They do make money.

1:22:06Dave Ramsey:Where's their money going? If it's not going to student loan, it's not going to cars. Where's it going? Well, they have two kids, so I don't, how much do they make, Josephine? Do you know? You know what their income is? Yeah, I think their income is about$180 ,000.

1:22:30Dave Ramsey:You've got to be kidding me. They make$180 ,000 and they're driving a couple of beaters and mommy's going to bail them out? Come on, Josephine. Did you just hear that? Well, he has significant student loans. I don't care. He's not paying on them. He's waiting on Biden. Oh, wait, Biden's not president anymore. Yeah. He's not even paying down aggressively. He makes$180 ,000 a year, and they're pissing their money away.

1:23:06Yeah, I'm sorry.

1:23:09Dave Ramsey:Darlene, you lose the argument. Where do they live, Josephine? Where do they live? They live in Michigan. So they're not in that place where the cost of living is super high. No, they have significant discipline issues and spending issues. And giving them$30 ,000 is definitely giving a drunk a drink. Okay. All right. Definitely. Just mind my own business. It's not mind your own business. It's okay to be a mom that loves. Yeah. But you don't want to be an enabler. because the math that you just gave me is crazy. It's crazy. A young couple making$180 ,000 called me up just on the air here and said, we're driving a couple of hoopties, and we're not going to pay off our student loan debt because we're waiting on the government to do it.

1:24:03Dave Ramsey:We would put them on a Ramsey program called Beans and Rice, Rice and Beans, get on a budget, quit going out to eat, quit going on vacations you can't afford, and go buy yourself a decent$10 ,000 car and pay cash for it, and then roll up your sleeves and clean up your dadgum student loan mess, be a grown-up. That's the speech they would get if they called here. Yeah, yeah, okay. And you know why I would give them that speech? Because I love them. Yeah. And you love them too. The only difference you and I have is in how we manifest that. What I want to do is I want to create in them habits and systems and processes and character traits that create a sustainable life for them where they become prosperous.

1:24:48Dave Ramsey:That's what I want to create in them. Giving them money when they're misbehaving with money does not do that. Okay. All right. That makes total sense. That's where we are. I'm sorry I laughed so loud at you. It scared me. I thought you were going to tell me they made $30 ,000 a year or something. And it caught me off guard. I know I was. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So yeah, let me tell you, the nicest people on the planet are enablers. They want to help. And the way they want to help is they just give somebody money in a situation that they don't need to. So it's the old, the old adage of you, you teach a man to fish and he's had, he has fish for the rest of his life.

1:25:30Dave Ramsey:If you give him a fish, he has a fish for a day. And that's what we're talking. That's the difference in what we're talking about here yeah and different different scenario would be let me tell you what i would do josephine you'd put them in financial peace university i would and i would match them and i would match them oh that's good yeah you know if you will if you will go buy if you will save up uh ten thousand or five thousand dollars for a car i'll put five thousand dollars with it so you can get a ten thousand dollar car if you will pay down ten thousand dollars on your student loan i'll put ten thousand dollars towards your student loan yeah up to 30 i'm not going to do the whole stinking substantial.

1:26:06Dave Ramsey:We didn't ever get the number what substantial is, but, but I would do some matching to encourage the proper habits. That's right. Not to prop up and encourage the improper habits. That's right. Yes. But yeah, a matching plan might be, and I'll tell you what, I'll give you, since I was so tough on you, I'm sorry. I'll give you Financial Peace University to give to them if you can, if you could talk them into doing it, if you can talk them into doing it. Yeah. But if you guys will get in Financial Peace University and you'll start on a budget and you'll start limiting your spending and get control and get rid of the chaos and build a sustainable future for yourselves and for my grandbabies, I'll put up money and help by matching your positive moves up to 30K.

1:26:46Yeah, because if the call was...

1:26:47Dave Ramsey:Now, that's assuming your husband goes along with that, Josephine, because you've got to have peace in your house because y 'all are still arguing about that too. Totally, totally. But if you and your husband, Sharon and I would do that. because if she had called and said they make 50 they have been paying off debt like crazy they're making progress and one of their cars just died and we want to come we want to help them yeah that's helping them on a path that's positive that's right exactly exactly that's not it's not uh writing checks for misbehavior yep yeah which is a drunk a drink yes you don't want to do that so yeah i want to i want to i want them fishing for life not fish for a day Yes.

1:27:26Magnify the good.

1:27:27Dave Ramsey:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is hard, Josephine, though. As a mom, if you do see, you know, they're struggling. And I could see if they have a lot of money. If Josephine and her husband have money. It is hard. It's the knee-jerk reaction. What's hard is you also know in your heart that they're misbehaving. And that's hard, too. Yes. That they're not paying on the debt. They're not doing what they need to do. And they make$180 ,000. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. you you that one caught me off guard i didn't see that one coming i got hit in the back of the head like a boomer hang on that one oh wow you can't make this day up i get it joseph you can't make this day up wow yeah that's what i would do i would do matching and hang on christian will pick up and we'll set you up with financial peace university if the kids want to do it uh I got a feeling they don't want to do it.

1:28:24Maybe they will. Just maybe the life old moment.

1:28:26Dave Ramsey:But if they want the$30 ,000 in match, maybe they will. That's assuming Josephine and her husband both agree on that. That's fair. Yeah.

1:29:02Dave Ramsey:Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner, or someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:29:48Dave Ramsey:financial peace university coordinators are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with financial peace university and that deserves to be celebrated if you are a coordinator or you want to be join us for the virtual 2025 coordinator rally on july 24th to celebrate the impact that you're making. We appreciate you. We want to celebrate you. Whether you've coordinated a class before or you want to learn what Financial Peace University is all about, you're invited. You're going to hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel, Dr. John Deloney, and other special guests, and we're going to give away$3 ,000 randomly.

1:30:20Dave Ramsey:So register for your chance to win. Register for free at RamseySolutions.com slash rally or click the link in the show notes. On the debt-free stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Darren and Stephanie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do y 'all live? Odinson, Maryland. Oh, fun. Halfway between Baltimore and D.C. Gotcha. Nice. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. All the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much debt have you paid off? $208 ,000 in the last four years. Good for you. Oh, my gosh. Way to go. And your range of income during that time?

1:30:57$145 ,000 to$185 ,000.

1:30:59Dave Ramsey:All right. There's that$180 ,000 thing again. so the 200 they paid off debt yeah i know i'm 200 000 in debt in four years what kind of debt was this that was our house you paid off your house yes sir wow in maryland what's that house worth uh right now anywhere from 370 to 380 wow good for you man rowdy i love it congratulations what do y 'all do for a living i'm in public safety and i'm a social worker awesomeness very cool So great, you guys. So what made you, four years ago, decide to pay off your house? How'd you get in touch with this Ramsey stuff? So I guess the story started a little earlier than that.

1:31:39Back in my early 20s, a friend of mine, during our small group meetings at the church, actually put together a financial seminar for our young adults. At the end of that, he gave some notes, and those notes were, hey, if you need some more biblical principles, please see DaveRamsey.com. Never went on DaveRamsey.com at the time. however back in 2020 um something was going on in our country yeah and i was doing some cleaning around the house and i actually found those notes from that conference that was put together oh my gosh i did go on that time um i started with the book and never turned back from there

1:32:21Dave Ramsey:unbelievable so stephanie uh he has a a covet obsession yes with his ramsey stuff he does And you come home and go, what? Well, I was actually home too because I was teleworking full time. Of course, yeah. So he brings it up and I said, what are you talking about? We're doing what? Like a budget and this and that. And he was like, yeah, we're just going to go for it. I'm tired of paying bills and I'm tired of paying this home and we're just going to do it. I looked at him and I was like, I trust you. Go for it. Let's go. Wow. Yes. That's amazing. Did y 'all have other consumer debt during that time?

1:32:56Or was it mostly just the house? So we got married in 2017, and in those first four years, we paid off about$107 ,000 of other consumer debt. That was before knowing the Ramsey plan.

1:33:08Dave Ramsey:So you already just didn't like debt. Right. So it wasn't hard to convince you. No, it was not. No, it wasn't. That is so crazy. Okay, and so then you guys had this lofty goal to pay off your house. So it started with reading the book. Then we went through FPU. I also ran some FPU courses as a coordinator. Oh, wow. My wife pushed me to also do a financial coach master training. Wow. I wasn't going to do it because of the cost. And my wife told me I needed to do it. So since reading Total Money Makeover, it's just been all gas, no breaks, and trying to tell everybody that I can about it. Thank you.

1:33:49Literally anyone and everyone. Well, thank you. We appreciate it. I know he's bothersome, but we like him.

1:33:57Dave Ramsey:This is great. Anyone and everyone he sees, he's like, come on. We started this, and you can do it too. We're young. We're 39 and 40 years old. So come on, our family, our siblings, our friends, you guys can do it too. Have you convinced people, or are most people like, okay, Darren, what's going on? We've convinced some, and others have just continued to watch on the sidelines. Yeah, that's fair. Some of them are on the journey as well, and they're doing their first three or four steps. Yeah. That's amazing, you guys. That's good. Incredible. And a paid-off house at 40. Yes, at 40. How does that feel?

1:34:32Amazing. I asked the next month, I said, so can we get more fund money now that we don't have a mortgage? Yes. I need to go shopping, obviously.

1:34:41Dave Ramsey:Here, here. So seriously, what's the first big thing you're going to do to enjoy the money now that you've gotten out? So we have been traveling a lot. So I think that's instead of thinking about paying the mortgage every month, it's kind of where are we going next. And that's kind of what it's been. What's the coolest thing you've done travel lately? Well, we just went to the Final Four in April. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's our tradition, yearly vacation. Okay. I still owe her a Europe trip. Yes. Got canceled twice from COVID. Oh, man. So that will be up next and as well as a new car. Yeah, good.

1:35:18Dave Ramsey:Good for y 'all. Well done. I'm so proud of you. And had two little ones during the time or were they? Yes, they were during the time. Okay. So part of it. Oh yeah, they are sweet. Our babies. So kind of in 2020 when that happened, we had actually just made a big dumb mistake, Dave. And we bought a new car, a brand new car. So three months later was after I got into the journey and then I kind of just kicked myself in the butt because I knew I shouldn't have done it at the time. but the zero percent kind of you know entices you and you kind of talk each other into it um so then after getting out of that car then it was we're getting done with the house and during that time right after we got the car that was when we found out that stephanie was pregnant love it oh and it all happened all in what four years so great you guys did pay off that car pretty quickly took us maybe five to six months to pay it off yeah we were like we're not doing is going now.

1:36:17Dave Ramsey:Get rid of it. Yeah. So we got rid of it pretty quickly. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Okay. You're a master coach now and your life reflects that you've been successful. Both of you. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Really? It's cliche, of course, around here, but the budget, the budget, the budget, um, budget is definitely not a four letter word, despite what people act in like it is. Um, but I think really I was one of those doing the budget in my head and you know just we made enough we always paid the bills every single month but there wasn't that guide to really direct what we're doing before the month begins and then have a plan throughout the month every single day yeah so good Stephanie yeah never give up and listen to your partner if you do have a partner keep the budget stay consistent and just keep going.

1:37:12And if you have a support system that's there to push you and cheerleaders, lean on to them.

1:37:17Dave Ramsey:Yeah, amen. Good job, you guys. Very proud of you. Very proud of you. Good work. Good work. Yeah, get this lady a trip to Europe, dude. Yes.

1:37:28Dave Ramsey:She's ready. And you guys have earned it. You've lived like no one else. And you're 40 years old and you've got a paid-for house in freaking Maryland. That's a big deal. It's a big deal. Way to go. all right bring the kiddos up here let's introduce them i want to know their names and ages and have they been practicing any debt-free screams oh yes my son actually wrote his own song oh wow i like it this is lucia what do their shirts say it says um i'm also their why and his says i'm their why i'm their why and i'm also their why y 'all are adorable and oh my gosh yesterday was dj's fourth birthday and today is lucia's first birthday well there you go so close together yes three years crazy oh my gosh that's wonderful oh happy birthday kids yeah for her birthday we get to do this yay well these kids have had their whole family tree changed because mom and dad decided to work together towards a goal that was bigger than themselves way to go all right darren and stephanie dj and lucia from baltimore maryland area 208 000 paid off in four years making 145 to 185.

1:38:36Dave Ramsey:Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We are debt-free! Yay!

1:38:48Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. DJ smiling. Look at him.

1:38:53Dave Ramsey:He's ready, man. I love it. Congratulations, you guys. We're proud of you.

1:39:13Thank you.

1:39:52Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day is Ecclesiastes 10.10. If the axe is dull and its edge unsharpened, more strength is needed, but skill will bring success. Claude McDonald said, if hard work is the key to success, most people would rather pick the lock. Michael is in Detroit. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, my financial advisors come to me recommending structured notes for the portion of my savings that I won't be touching for five to ten years. I'm retired, 55, no debt, about$2 million in savings. I've been told they have a downside protection up to 30 % and upside greater than the S &P.

1:40:39Dave Ramsey:They could be laddered for liquidity and possibly sold through exchanges. So I get that they're complicated, but if I do my due diligence, where's the downside? It just seems too good to be true.

1:40:55Dave Ramsey:Well, let me put it to you this way, okay? I'm 64. my net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars. Okay. The amount of money I have in structured notes is zero. Okay. And when I meet with people that have net worths in excess of$10 million, $20 million, which I often do, the number of them that play with structured notes is really, really close to zero. This is an ultra-high-risk derivative product. It's set up to, you can ladder them, but the laddering only lowers some of the risk because that just means if two rungs break off the ladder, that's all you lose. That's all that means. And so you can outperform the S &P simply by buying mutual funds that outperform the S &P.

1:41:49Dave Ramsey:I do it all the time. It's not really rocket science. And so this is – I don't – I'm really confused why someone with a$2 million net worth, why a competent advisor would actually recommend something that has as much risk. I'm appalled, actually. Can you explain what the risk is? So people – I've gotten both sides of the book, Ed, right? It's mainly volatility. It's mainly volatility because it depends on what it is. I mean, there's all kinds of structured notes, but they're derivatives, which means they lay in the background and copy something else. And so you can buy a structured note that copies the S &P.

1:42:29Dave Ramsey:You can buy a structured note that's mirrored after bonds. But there's no point in doing all of that when you could just simply buy the S &P or just buy a mutual fund that has a 20-year track record of outperforming the S &P. There's no reason to be in the direct background running a derivative product. And, you know, the risk is just volatility. And, I mean, I don't think you're going to lose 100 % of your money. It's just the – it's not worth it. The juice isn't worth the squeeze as far as I'm concerned. And I think it's highly inappropriate for an investment advisor with someone with only a$2 million net worth to be suggesting that someone play with this.

1:43:13Dave Ramsey:um so um i i think he's questionable on his fiduciary responsibility personally but um i would get a different investment advisor is what i'm saying i wouldn't i wouldn't stick with somebody that did that uh this guy's a player and are they pretty common no i feel like yeah i was gonna say i feel like it's not like a i mean how many times on this show have you had somebody ask you that question almost never yeah and so um but the reason is it's a it's there was a thing, what was the year? I guess it was when the mortgage-backed securities in 2008, when we had all that crash. Derivatives. Everybody was talking about derivatives then.

1:43:48Dave Ramsey:Everybody was derivatives, derivatives, derivatives, which is just simply a product that lays in the background and mirrors something else. It comes out of, derives from derivative. That's how the language works, in other words. But it's not an actual product. It's something that's trying to act like it's a product. And so the volatility is what, when the market goes down, you lose more of it because it doesn't, it doesn't mirror it exactly. It's mirrored on a leverage plane. And so you're going to, it's just the volatility is going to be, no, there's no sense. We don't need to do a masterclass on something you shouldn't do.

1:44:25Dave Ramsey:So just, I wouldn't do it, Michael, you do what you want to do. Um, but the, uh, uh, I don't find it to be normative to be used by of wealthy people. And so what I, one of my things I learned a long time ago, when I went broke, I started interviewing millionaires. And then when I became a millionaire, I started interviewing billionaires. And I said, how did you do that? And, and so, and then we did the largest study on millionaires that's ever been done in North America. And we got good data there on where, where wealth really comes from. And it doesn't come from playing with crap like this. You just don't see it.

1:44:56Dave Ramsey:And so, um, it's not Bitcoin. It's not that bad, but it's just not that good it's not worth the trouble for the juice isn't worth the squeeze it's you know there's too much risk for the and volatility for the supposed questionable returns and uh so i know all of that babbling to say i wouldn't do it kayla's with us in minneapolis hi kayla welcome to the ramsey show hi dave hi rachel thank you for taking my call sure what's up all right my question is should I sacrifice time with my kids to get a second job to pay off my debt. The backstory to that is I was once debt-free except for my home, thanks to your plan.

1:45:41And I went through a few traumatic things in my life, one of them being domestic assault. The second one was my older child attempting suicide. So through all of this, I plummeted and got back into debt. I currently owe$22 ,675.08 on my car, and I have a credit card for$15 ,440.18.

1:46:09Dave Ramsey:What's your income, kiddo?

1:46:14My employment income as well as child support, I grow$78 ,000.

1:46:19Dave Ramsey:And when was the last traumatic episode? A little over a year ago. Because it's still catching in your throat, I can hear it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry.

1:46:37Dave Ramsey:And you're a single mom and the kids are how old? 15 and 8. Okay. And the 15-year-old is the one that had some mental health struggles, right? Yep. Yeah. No, I'd sell my car, but I'm going to be home for that 15-year-old. So that is one of the biggest conflicts I'm having with this other than the other job is I drive for my job about 50 to 60 ,000 miles a year. And having that reliability of the vehicle is extremely important. I know that you can find reliable vehicles elsewhere too, but with knowing that this is a good, constant, steady job, I'm really having a hard time doing that. well I'm going to find a good reliable vehicle where I can get out of debt without having to work an extra job so I can be there for a 15 year old that attempted suicide 18 months ago okay I'm not willing to trade a car for that okay there's not a circumstance you can make me believe the car is worth that okay because I think you want to be there with her don't you absolutely but the way I've been listening to you guys maybe too much and I'm like I gotta be so serious about this I need to get it all paid up I need to.

1:48:00Yeah I want you to be furious

1:48:01Dave Ramsey:but I also want you to have proper priorities and right now you've got some very fresh open wounds in your life. If this was four years ago and the kid was stable I'd put you to work I'm game on that. Okay but I mean you were talking last 12-14 months you've had hell in your life and I want you to get I want that further in the rearview mirror for you for you're not home at all yeah and you got latchkey kids okay do you i mean i don't care if you want to go to work you can choose that i'm not gonna be mad at you but i'm trying to put myself in your shoes what would i do yeah i definitely want to be there for him i'm just trying to think yeah yeah and just know that and you're gonna have to just cut everything out of the budget in order for this to happen i mean in order for you to spend time with her, the trade-off is we don't go out to eat.

1:48:53Dave Ramsey:The trade-off is we're not going on vacation. The trade-off is I'm whittling on. Are you able to stay current with everything, Kayla? What do you? Yeah, I've never fallen behind on any payments. What do you do? I was afraid you were going to ask this. I'm a dealer services account rep, so I go from car dealership to car dealership. Yeah, that's okay. I'm not going to be mad at you for that. I'm just trying to figure out what you could do from home as your side gig. A side hustle from home, yeah, while you're there. And be present with the kiddos right now. Yeah, let the family heal. Get some stability there before you go full-on sacrifice mode with this money.

1:49:30Dave Ramsey:That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.