You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan

27:13I don't want to go backwards financially to make this happen. How would you feel about that? And how would you feel about that suggestion? So being that at my age right now, I don't have any retirement. And that's, and that's been my main focus. Like the main thing on my mind is I need to, to get my 401k built up. Okay. I don't want, I don't want to work for the rest of my life. I actually do want to retire. Right. Okay. But right now, as far as I cash flow in it, I just don't have the means paying for our entire household off of just one income. How long have you guys been married? 16 years. Okay.

27:58And is this the first marriage for both of you guys? Yep. Okay. Tell me. Okay. So here's what I hear. And John, jump in at any point. It's almost like for 16 years, I don't know what you guys were doing, but now all of a sudden it's like, we got to lock in and it's, you're ready to lock in, but she's almost still like finding who she wants to be. And I, I mean, I'm playing the field on this because I agree with you. There, there does come a point where it's like, we need to make a decision. We need to lock in and go forward with that. I feel you on that. I also feel you on not wanting to burn extra money because there are fish to fry like retirement and making sure we're paying off debt.

28:38So it sounds like a really kind of come to Jesus meeting needs to happen with you and your wife where it's, I need to understand the career hopping. Do you know where it is that you're wanting to go? Or are you still feeling like you're in experiment mode? Like, tell me for real. Like, tell me what you're really thinking so that I can understand where you're coming from and we can take some time and like cool out on that and then come back together and really talk about it. But understanding where she's at and her understanding where she's at is going to be paramount on this. And she may not know.

29:12And I want you to redefine the word support. I'll take Kelly Daniel, who is the producer of my show. She supports me in that show. She supports me by saying, hey, you did this really well. And she also supports me by helping create a vision for where we want to go with it. But she also really supports me when she says, hey, you blew that. You did not handle that call well. And so you supporting your wife by saying, quote unquote, yes, yes, yes to everything. And I'm going to get a job where I'm dying because I can't keep doing it. And then I'm going to start keeping secrets about how scared I am about our future.

29:50And I'm going to start keeping secrets about how my back hurts and I can't move and I'm not sleeping well. That's not support. And so support is you. who my buddy Will Gadara says every, he's one of the world's best restauranteurs. And he says every shift, the waitstaff goes and fills up their pitcher so they can spend the rest of their shift making sure everybody else has water. That's support. But they can't first start by supporting all of their customers if their pitcher's empty. And so you have to look at, expand your definition of support is I'm not just going to blindly say yes, yes, yes to everything.

30:28support looks like, hey, let's take a half day. I'm going to take a half day off of work. I'm ahead of schedule financially this year. Where are we going? Who do we want to be? What do we want our house to feel like? And right now this debt is scaring me to death. I would love for you to be a nurse because you could be a nurse into your seventies and AI will take parts of nursing away, but it won't take the human contact away. Like that's a thing she could do for a long, long, long time. And maybe we can't afford that for the next two years. Let's settle into this phlebotomy job or whatever for two years.

30:59But support is, I'm going to be honest and put everything on the table and let's co-create a vision together.

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32:53Back to the phone lines where we have Nick from Sioux City, Iowa on the line. Hey, Nick, how can we help today? Hey, guys. Just wanted to call. First off, big fan of the show. Thanks for taking my call. I listen to it all the time. So the reason I'm calling is I'm a small business owner. I've got about nine employees now. And my main guy is, he's a great guy, works hard, shows up every day, but I think just made a lot of poor decisions, you know, when he was kind of younger and getting started. He's only about probably 28, 29 years old. He's got four young kids. But I remember he was buying some vehicles from some used dealerships and probably paying top dollar and not getting good interest rates and probably spending more than what he should have out of the get.

33:47Over the last several years, he's came to me and said, hey, I'm short. I'm not going to be able to make my house payment. I'm not going to be able to make my car payment. Can I borrow some money? I've always lent him money, just slowly took it out of his check. as the weeks and months went on after that. He's to the point now where him and his family are down to one vehicle. He has a loan on that vehicle. He has a loan on two other vehicles that he doesn't even own anymore. He had to basically give them back to the bank because they were broke down. How do you know this much? Well, when he keeps coming to me for money all the time, I feel bad.

34:28And I'm like, hey, oh, yeah. I'm like, you work your butt off every week, man. Like you work, you know, 60 hours a week. What do you think is going on? If you really, I mean, not in a gossipy way, but if you just had to say like, you know what I think? Like what do you think is going on over there? Well, I think part of the problem is, and that may not be a problem, but I think he's a person who's just not really motivated by money. It just, it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, do anything for him. Maybe some people are just like that, I guess. Yeah, that's right. Um, he's, he's pretty laid back.

35:02So it just doesn't really bother him. I, I don't, and that's the thing. And that's honestly why I'm calling because the last thing I want to do as an employer is, is get between one of my guys and their significant other. Like, I don't, I don't want that at all. I just feel like, I just feel like, you know, I'm willing to help, but when it's every six months and I'm just helping and, and, you know, I actually bought him a truck. I bought him a used truck to let him, and I just gifted it to him, you know, so he's going to help him. titled it and everything. And, and now that's having some problems.

35:33And you're not, you're not helping, you're not helping anymore, Nick. I just got to cut the cord. Well, my, my, my good buddy, Henry Cloud, he, he wrote a great book. But one of the first stories in the book is a family that came and they had a young adult kid who kept asking for money and asking for money. And they, the family came to him as a psychologist and said, hey, how do we help our kid? And he said, the greatest gift you can give your kid is some problems. And that sounds heartless, right? But for a guy that doesn't care about money, he's going to care about having a roof over his family's head.

36:14Until he feels that, and you keep bailing him out, and by the way, you're making it worse for him to come to work every day, and this sounds counterintuitive because you're not just his boss, now you're his bank. And that shame he feels every day, he feels it even heavier. Yeah, that's eventually going to lead to one or two things. He's either going to leave the company because he can't handle it, and you're going to cut him off. And so he's either going to be mature and go, yeah, that feels right, and that's good, and he's going to keep working there. Or he's going to go, I can't believe this guy cut me off, and he's going to leave.

36:50And he's going to blame you for his bad decisions. Let me ask you this, brother. it's rare in my world where somebody is great in every aspect of their life except for one sliver i have to believe that a guy that handles his personal finances this way that handles his home this way his marriage his kids this way that has to impact your business yes is that true i'm sorry say that one more time so it's very rare in my world that somebody has everything in their life together professionally, and just when they get home, everything's a dumpster fire. This has to bleed into his work, right? Maybe not.

37:32I mean, I run a small construction company, so he's directed by me every day. I mean, he knows what to do, and under my guidance and supervision, he does a good job. And I think it's a little bit of a, you know, to be honest, I almost think he likes coming to work because it's a little bit of a break from probably what's going on there. You know, I feel two things. One, you know, I don't like seeing somebody work that hard and, you know, struggle to that point, especially I rely on this guy. I mean, this is my main guy. And but at the same time, I just I'm like, well, if you can't get to work, have you tried me now?

38:18Have you tried gifting him the gift of knowledge versus money? Have you tried getting him on with some of the Ramsey products or anything like that? Financial peace? I should I should probably try to do that and push that a little more. I've always been very cautious. I try not to ask too much. I try to just kind of stick to the, you know, I just don't want to get, I don't want to get too personal. I don't want to seem like I'm pushing. You've already been personal. Yeah, you've been, when somebody comes and asks you for money to pay their rent, it's personal now. I get that. I just, I understand what you're saying.

38:55Yeah. We've already ventured into that. I mean, at this point, if I, if I were in your shoes today, and I think this is where we're at with this call. Yeah, I'd probably, I wouldn't wait for him to approach you again. I would approach him and I'd say, you know what? I've been thinking about your situation and I think I made a mistake. I really wanted to help and I gifted you money and I did all this. I think that was the wrong move on my part. I really should have shared with you some of the things that have really helped me. And that's a great on route for you to say, here's the plan I follow.

39:25Here's a great podcast. I even, here's every dollar I was able to get you this one to get you started. And use the line that we use with folks. Say, if I gift you this, will you do it? If I gift you this financial piece and this every dollar, will you promise me if I give you the total money makeover, will you read this book? And pose it to him like that and just say, man, I don't want to see you struggle. I'm grateful that you shared with me what's going on, but I don't think me giving you money is the answer anymore. And I can't keep doing that, but I can give you this. And then that way you're helping him, but you're also pushing him out.

40:00Don't come over here. Ask me for money anymore. Ramsey Solutions even has a HR benefit called Smart Dollar, which giant companies use and small businesses use it. But it's a way to teach employees. A close friend of mine is the CFO of a landscaping business. And he realized a lot of his guys were blowing so much of their money and they were struggling at the end of every month. And so they got Smart Dollar for the team. And it's like, hey, as a company, we're all going to do this. We're going to learn these principles. but you've got some great data, which is I've given you a truck. I've given you money multiple times.

40:35That's not helping. And so I'm going to stop doing something that's not helping. And, um, I can help you here and hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of total money makeover. I'll send you a year of every dollar. Um, we'll send you the digital financial peace university product. We'll send that to you and you can just turn around and gift it to him if you'd like to, but man, you've made it personal by getting into his finances. And so when somebody comes and asks me for one-time help, done, easy. Somebody keeps coming back and saying, can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money?

41:05Can I borrow some more money? We're going to have a deeper conversation, a bigger conversation. Well, yeah, because at that point, it's what we would tell anybody. It's symptoms of a bigger problem. It's a systemic issue. Yeah. And putting a bandaid on it, it does not work. And I think that enabling calls are probably some of the toughest calls we deal with because you do, you want to help as a, as a human being. If you're, you know, any sort of conviction inside of you, yeah, you have a pulse, you feel guilty and you want to help when you see somebody else hurting, you want to help them carry that burden.

41:36Like that's just who we are as people. I think we just have to be careful of how we do that and make sure that we're not making it worse. Yeah. Rarely is throwing money at a problem, the solution. If somebody needs to eat today, done throwing money at that problem will solve that they'll get a meal today or a place to stay tonight like 100 i'm all about that um but if somebody keeps coming back and coming back the greatest way to help somebody is to peel back up 30 000 feet and if somebody's struggling they got two cars they're paying on that they don't even have anymore and a third car plus the car that you gave them is falling apart man you got bigger issues it may be that as his employer hey i'm gonna pay for 10 counseling sessions for you and your spouse i'll cover that and i love that or i'll pay for 10 financial coaching sessions or something with Ramsey.

42:23But man, yeah, I would not loan somebody I care about money. I'll either give it to them or we're going to have a bigger conversation.

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43:58Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Let's go to Alexis again in Des Moines, Iowa. We got two calls from Des Moines. What's going on, Alexis? Yes, I'm calling because I'm trying to get my husband on board and we have three mortgages. So we're a little bit of a mess. On the same house or three different houses? Well, two houses and then a mobile home, the best one. Okay. So tell us, tell us how much you owe on each house and what it's worth and do the same for the mobile home. Okay. Tennessee home is$147 ,000. It's worth probably like$340 ,000. Mobile home, probably worth$60 ,000.

44:46Where's that located? My daughter in Iowa. Okay. And we probably owe$63.

44:55Iowa, main home, primary home now, we owe$257, and it's probably worth$290. So you could sell your Tennessee home in a state you don't live in and clear both your debts today? Technically, but his family member lives there, so he didn't want to sell. But that sounds like his family member's problem.

45:19I don't want to be cruel. I know that sounds cruel. Why do you all own a home and you're paying a mortgage on a home that his family member lives in? Well, they pay rent, so it's the rental to them now. So they do cover that one. How long is the lease for? It's yearly. They want to do longer and in hopes of purchasing it. Well, that's not an option, but I'm just saying, what's the immediate lease for? Till September. September. So what's your big question? How can we help? So he's also had five different jobs within the past year because we had to move back to Iowa because my mom has dementia and to help her care.

46:04So if he doesn't like a job, he quits and get another one. But he makes more than I do from work because I work a job that doesn't pay as well. What do you make? So I make$41 ,500 from work. He makes about$62 ,400 due to his pay decrease. And then we have monies that come in from our military service. How much is that? So we're disabled veterans. How much do you get from that? Probably about$70 ,000. Okay. So what's your month look like? On a monthly basis, how much are you bringing in? On the low end,$12 ,500. On the high end, if we include like the rental income, back child support that I receive and other miscellaneous, it could be about$18 ,000.

46:52Okay. So there's a lot going on here. You know, when you called, you're like, oh man, we're a mess. And it's actually doesn't, it's not as bad as I feel like it sounds. I think you guys have a lot of money coming in. It just sounds like there's disorganization. You've got the income there and you've got assets that you can sell to really simplify this really quickly. I think you just feel disorganized and unorganized. So what I would do if I were in your shoes is come September, I would let that family member know in as few words possible. Basically, we've got to simplify our life. And part of that means we've got to sell this property.

47:31And so in September, when the lease is up, you'll have to move out. And I know that you had dreams of maybe buying this place. And if you want to buy it in September, fine, but we're going to have to put it on the market because we've got to get our life together. Right? And so I would say that. And then, you know, there's$193 ,000 in equity there that you need to get your hands on. I think I missed it when you said the mobile home was worth 60. Did you say you owe 63 on it? I owe 63. I'm not exactly sure how much it's worth. It's a 2025, like I just bought it last year. Okay. Who'd you buy it for?

48:11Huh? Who'd you buy it for? It was for us. So we were renting and then the cost of rent, and then I thought it would be easier just to purchase that. Because with our cash flow, when he was making more money, it just seemed like I could easily pay that off quickly. And then he quit his job and then y 'all went and bought another house? he didn't quit his job so he was living in tennessee i was living in iowa so we were living in two states because i had to get here quickly to help with my mother's care rent in our area is still high for what you're paying for old homes and stuff like that so to me it makes sense to just be paying rent i was like i'd rather waste it on a mobile home okay so but you don't need it anymore i know for that so he so then i just got the mobile home in my name right now our son that's in college here and then our older son they live in the mobile home right now your son's trying to get their life together yeah okay so and how old are the sons um one is 20 and one is um well one's 21 one's 19.

49:18okay so what i would do with the sons are do they have jobs one is on medical leave from work and then the other one he's a college student so he doesn't have a job. So I would say to the sons, I'd say again, same, same narrative. Your dad and I, we've got, we're trying to get organized. We're trying to get our financial life together. We've made a couple of mistakes. Part of writing that, writing those mistakes is we've got to sell this, this mobile home. And so your options are, you can hang out, you can move back in with us for a couple of months, and then you've got to figure out an apartment or if you're going to live on campus.

49:52And that would be what I say. And you've got to get a job so that you can fund an apartment for, especially for the 21 year old, for the 19 year old. Yeah. You can extend, I think you can extend more grace there, but you can't, you can't keep this, this mobile home that's going down in value every single day that you have it. That really, I don't think if you sat down, let's pretend that you were just living in the Iowa house. You didn't have the Tennessee house. You didn't have a mobile home. You're just living in your house as it is now. I don't think you would go, you know what? The boys need someplace to live.

50:25Let's buy them a mobile home. I don't think you would make that choice. I think you probably would have said they need to get a job. Maybe we'll help with an apartment, right? I think your train of thought probably would have been down a different line. And so what I want to challenge you to do is be very intentional about what stays in your life by default versus what you actually want it to look like. And right now there's things in your life by default. The trailer is there by default. The Tennessee house is there by default, right? So that's what we're trying to do to get organized and go, this is not actually what I want.

51:00Let's get that out of here. Let's get the next thing out of here. And then let's take that money and actually pay down some debt and create some security for ourselves. It seems like you're two hard conversations away from cleaning up your life. But it seems like y 'all are doing a lot of gymnastics to get around those two uncomfortable conversations. And in the process, you're making your own marriage really uncomfortable, right? Yes, he just doesn't agree with selling the Tennessee house. Like, he's fine with keeping it. So it's like creating a plan to pay it off. Again, ask him the question I asked you.

51:38I want you to go. This is your homework. You have two pieces of homework for me. The first homework is look on Kelly Blue Book or look to however you sell campers or trailers. Find out what the thing is worth and get it on the market. That's piece of homework number one. Homework number two is I want you to pose the same question I posed to you to your husband and say, hey, let's just pretend for a minute. Let's be intentional in an effort to be intentional. Let's pretend that we were just here in Iowa. We never had a house in Tennessee. We never had that. And we thought to ourselves, let's buy a rental.

52:08Would we, on purpose, look in another state, specifically Tennessee, and choose to buy a rental there with the intent of a family member moving there? Would we choose that? And just wait and see what he says, because I guarantee the answer is no. And that's going to help him see that this happened by default, which means we don't have to stay there. We can make changes and do things on purpose.

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54:11Let's go to our Ramsey Show question of the day. Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But Y-Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real-life situations. Learn more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Melody in Connecticut. She writes, I've been married for over 40 years and I've always managed our household finances by myself.

54:48When we were young and broke, it was my responsibility to worry about budgeting for groceries, bills that need to be paid, etc. My husband recently retired and opened up a separate savings account solely for his social security deposits. I do not have access to those funds, so my paycheck now has to cover the mortgage utility's car payment and all his incidental spending. He never asks if we have enough money to cover his purchases. Jade, I'm getting pissed off just reading this. Me too, me too. He just expects my paycheck to be enough. How do I get him to understand that without his income, I can't cover everything now?

55:21My gut tells me, tell him we don't have enough money to make the bills. But my gut also tells me, you've tried that. He don't care. And he don't care. Uh-uh. I think he has made... This is your phrase, John. People speak in actions and in pictures. What is it? Yeah, we think in pictures, but we speak in... I mean, we speak in words, but we think in pictures. Yeah. But his actions are speaking very... Yeah, behavior is a language. That's what it was. Thank you. behaviors and language. He has said, I don't care. And I care so less that I am going to separate myself from the whole over here and do my own thing on the side.

56:02That's what I'm getting from this. He did that 40 years ago when he said, I don't care. You figure it out. And he's left you to manage the whole house like a coward for 40 years. I don't want to deal with reality. That's your job. I'll go make the money. And then the day he retires, he's like, cool, this is mine now. Yeah. I mean, she's right to be concerned about that. She's right to be frustrated by that. Frustrated, concerned. She's right to be enraged by that. Thank you. You're right. I was being light, light-handed. Enraged by that. Yeah. Gosh, Jade, here's the thing. I I speak to so many men who are awesome and they are busting it on behalf of their families and their spouses and their kids and guys who are going to counseling for the first time in 30 years and guys who are patching stuff up with their dads and their aging parents.

56:59When I read these, I get overly mad. Oh, yeah. Because it's such a coward, unmasculine, unbrave way to do life. To just cash out of your own life and put all of this on your wife as you've done for 40 freaking years. Melody, I hate to tell you this, but you have a spouse that doesn't care. Doesn't care about the stress you're under, has never cared for almost half a century. Doesn't care that your math doesn't line up. He wants to do whatever he wants to do. doesn't care for whatever. And this is going to sound petty. I don't know a way outside of an honest conversation. Hey, let's look at the bills together.

57:42And I'm assuming you've done that. I don't know another way to deal with this kind of thing than to deposit the money in your account and start Venmoing him or start asking for him to pay bills because that's how he's living anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask something to you, John, about this, because I think we get a lot of calls And this at this point is going beyond the why refi question, because we get calls all the time where a spouse feels this this type of situation where another spouse has really just separated themselves, has kind of just walled off in a certain area, whether it's they keep all the money to themselves or they're keeping money to the side or whatever that is.

58:23and you can always tell that this has been a pattern that's been going on for a long time and i when i hear that i'm filtering it through oh my gosh if sam warshaw ever tried it like it'd be unsolved mysteries like you'd be texting me in the middle of the night saying hey we need to hide a body exactly exactly and so what i want you to answer john in in in a tactful way is how much of this is um it's easy to point at the in this case the husband and go i can't believe he's doing that oh my gosh, this guy, this guy, this guy. But how much of it is the other spouse who's been allowing a certain type of behavior to persist?

58:59Like where does that pendulum fall on what we allow versus what we get? At the end of the day, and this is the hardest thing about talking about marriage, the only person you can control is you. And so yes, it's easy to look back and to say for 40 years, you have made me dot, dot, dot. The honest thing is for 40 years, I have chosen to carry all of this weight for the house. You're participating. I've participated. And that feels like victim shaming and blah, blah. What I want people to hear that as is empowerment. I chose this. I wish I hadn't have chosen it, but I did. I won't choose this any longer.

59:41And so no matter what you're going through, there will come a moment, a loss of a spouse, a loss of a child, a horrific incident at work, whatever, the loss of a job. At some point, the question emerges, what are you going to do now? And if you get to that question and you immediately start to loop over again, but they did, then you're just going to spend your life on the rent cycle. At some point, Melody has to say, okay, what am I going to do now? Am I going to keep doing this for the next 20 years of our marriage until I die and resent the last 20 years? Or am I gonna make a change now? And that change may cost you the image of the marriage you think you've been propping up for half a century.

1:00:24It may be that this guy has been out for years and you're just gonna make it concrete. It may be that when he realizes this is kind of, I'm kind of lame. Like I had my little pity party when I retired and this is not how spouses do life together. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't realize how bad it was or whatever. And Melody has to be honest about, has she blown things out of proportion for 40 years? And we don't have any money. We do, right? Yeah. And he's just like, whatever. And so all that comes into effect, but your question is a good one. Everyone who comes to me and say, hey, I want to work on our communication in marriage, what they're asking me is, how do I get my spouse to do what I want them to do?

1:01:03And someone's like, we need to learn how to fight. It is, how do I get them to do what I want them to do? Yeah, yep. The hardest answer I always give is you can't make them do anything. The only thing you can do is be the best version of yourself in your marriage. And that means I got to be honest about what I participated in. And I got to be real honest about what I'm going to do next, period. I wish it was more complex than that. And I know that's simple, but it's very complicated. I wish it was more, it was harder than that. It's that simple for Melody. And I also think there's got to be, if you truly want to be happy, and I'll add this on and you can tell me if I'm wrong.

1:01:36You also have to do what you're going to do without an expectation from them. Because you can't go, I'm going to put it in simple terms. If you're like, man, I wish my spouse would be more servant-hearted towards me. So all the time you're like, would you like a glass of water? Would you like me to, right? You're doing all these extra things hoping they'll do it back. You hope there's an ROI on it. Yeah. And then when they don't, now you're still getting like resentful and angry on the inside. So it's almost like you have to do right just for you without the expectation. So you can feel like if the end comes, I know I did all I can do.

1:02:09I tell couples all the time who are thinking about getting divorced, give yourself six months to be the best version of yourself. And that's the person who is looking past the dirty laundry to say, hey, I saw how hard you're working at work. Thank you for being in this house. That is the person who looks past the extra 10 pounds or the past the gruff gruff or the eye roll, give yourself a chance if you're sitting in a divorce attorney hearing that you know, I showed up as the best version of myself. And if you can do that and your spouse says, I'm not interested in being married to you. It's going to make it hard, but you'll have inner peace because I did the best I could.

1:02:47You'll know. Don't show up to the table being like, well, yeah, I did do whatever. And almost every time when two people decide I'm going to be the best version of myself so I can be in total service to my spouse and they do it back, ain't going anywhere near a divorce office, right? Because y 'all are building the life you want to have. You're building the marriage you want. And the hard part with all of this is when you truly are the best version of yourself, you're doing the best you can. That is so vulnerable. It's scary. Because you're putting yourself out there every day. And your spouse may say, don't care.

1:03:17Don't care don't notice don't care oh and but i'll tell you this when you're going is is let me go back to like something as silly as high school sports it's easy to be like well if i had just worked out i would have been fast whatever it's scary to put all the work in and still be seventh place oh man right yeah but you you stop running because you're like that's as best as i can do. Right? I did my best. I did my best. And so Melody, ask yourself, not what is he going to, ask yourself, what am I going to do now?

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1:05:26Mark is in Fort Myers, Florida on the line. What's up, Mark? How can we help today? Hey, John. Hey, Jade. How are you guys today? Doing all right. Great. So the reason I'm calling is my father and mother-in-law, they just moved down to Florida about almost two years ago after he retired. And after speaking with my wife, they're going to be out of money in about 20 months. How do you know this? They've always been big spenders. I know this because my wife, who's actually a financial planner, or she finally just took over for them. They never wanted to use her in the past, and now they have, and now she's got all their information.

1:06:09And anyway, they've always been big spenders, never paid off their mortgage in all their big earning years, and now it's not looking so good. So I'm really just fearful that they're going to come to us in time and need financial help. So I'm just not sure how to really navigate that. So I think— Or maybe what discussions. Yeah, that's a great question. let's just you and your wife get together and run the exercise like they call us what are we going to say because you can't control them the only person you can control in this equation is you and so assume they're going to call and ask for money and have a pre-agreed upon message from you and your wife as to what we will and will not support do you think your wife and you do agree on what that message should be Mark?

1:06:57we do and when we have talked about it um her and i are in complete agreement and i think the most frustrating part is that he so they moved into a community and he's on the hoa board like and he's working almost 40 hours a week not being paid yeah but like man go out and get a job yeah but like you're you can't control that yeah your compassion is real dude and i want to honor your compassion for your father-in-law. But what you're doing is you're taking his choices and potential future issues, and you're dragging them into your present, and you're the one dealing with them. Or as they say in NAA, you're drinking poison hoping he gets sick.

1:07:40You know what I mean? And so what I'm not going to do with the precious time I have with my wife on this planet is spend time worrying about other people's decisions, especially if we've already aligned on our response to the consequences of their decisions or the potential consequences, right? That's anxiety is grabbing a potential outcome in the future into the present and trying to solve it now. That's just a recipe to ruin today. It doesn't solve any of their activities or actions, right? And so, yeah, he's making idiotic choices. He's making bad choices with his money and he's using, he's trying to build reputation in his local community.

1:08:19A, I get that. If he just moved to a new place, he wants to be on the in crowd and get to know, I get that. And also he can't afford to do that. Right. But if y 'all are already aligned on what your response will be, you've, you've gone further than most married couples do. So I applaud you for that, man. Now your choice is to look at your wife and say, Hey, what kind of fun can we have today. I don't know the other option other than just to choose misery on a problem that you can't solve. Well, I'm curious. Your wife is, you know, they've given over the information to your wife. She's helping them.

1:08:54Surely she has said to them, here's what I'm finding. You got 20 months left. And I'm sure she's made some suggestions. How have they reacted to that? yeah yes she has and he just keeps saying oh i have a plan and we're like but what's the plan dude like you're not telling us and so we just don't really know how old are they um he is 69 and she is the wife is like 60 okay are they with it like are they is everything still full capacity is it possible that they have money or assets that you guys don't know about? If he says, I have a plan or I'm fine. Yeah, there's the other side. What if you just trusted him?

1:09:39Cool. They got a plan. Yeah, I guess you're right. I don't know of anything. You get to choose. Anything that you're thinking right now is the story you're making up, right? Right. And so let's deal with a potential bad story and let's choose to make up the most positive version of this story. That's not being Pollyanna. That's not being in denial. That's just saying I get to choose which one of these things I meditate on every day. One of these stories that I make up is going to let me sleep a little bit better. And the other story is killing me. It's going to give me a stroke and it's not going to change his financial habits at all.

1:10:16Dude, I totally get your frustration. I mean, I get it deeper than you can possibly imagine. I won't talk about it on the air here. And at some point you have to decide I'm not going to strangle myself and lose oxygen here over a problem I can't solve. I will have an answer for what comes and so be it. Jay, we were just talking about this off air. If you and I and all of our teammates here on the Ramsey Show, if we could just get people to, if we could empower people to hear this message, you can only control you. That's it. I literally think the world changes. Absolutely. And I don't say that in a, in a every man for himself, but like take care of your house, take care of you and take care of the problems that are already in your lap.

1:11:05Don't create new ones and then drag them in to your lap. And if other people want to go do wild stuff, I don't like it. I hate it for them. I hate it for us, but I can't do anything about it. You don't have to attach yourself to it or it doesn't have to become the conversation that you guys circle around every night when you do dishes. Over and over and over. And maybe once a week. All right, 30 minutes. Let's just get it all out. And we just rag on it. How could they do this? This is crazy. And then we're done. Let's go to dinner. I love it. Thanks for the call, Mark. I wish it were different.

1:11:33Let's go to Scott in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Scott? Hi, how you doing? Doing great. Excellent. Let us have it. Okay. So I'm in this predicament where my friend from Primerica, I just started buying Roth IRA with him. And he's telling me that, okay, so I have an investment property in Las Vegas, and I have a house here in St. Louis. I want to sell the investment property in Las Vegas, and I'll come out with about$250 ,000. I want to pay off. All right. The only two debts I have left are my Jeep and my house here in St. Louis. I can pay them off and be, you know, scot-free, step seven, you know, on top of the world.

1:12:29Yes. You know, but he's telling me I'm the stupidest guy in the world because my mortgage rate is only 2.85. Get a new financial advisor, dude. All right. Get a new one. He's forgotten that there are different, there's multiple components of money, right? We get caught up on the dollars and cents. We all know about numbers. Then there's the behaviors. You need to budget. You need to avoid debt. And then there's the emotional sense. And we talked about this earlier. So much of money is emotional. It's how we want to feel. We want to be free. We want peace. It's who we are. He doesn't have to deal with your peace.

1:13:05He wants the arbitrage. He doesn't make any money if you're not investing the gap to him. Yes, sir. Yeah, he wants to give me a – he says take that$250, put it towards some kind of annuity. Dude, fire him today. Today. Today. Okay. Today. All right. We're done. Because here's the thing. Bro, I'm telling you. I've been on both sides of this equation. When you sleep in a house that nobody can take from you. Yes. I will pay 3 % in what I call a sleep tax on what my mortgage, my interest rate is versus what I could be theoretically getting in the market. I will pay that sleep tax every day of the week because no one can take my house.

1:13:52Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, sir. I love that. I really love that. And there's the other part of it where if we do want to get into some facts and data, we can. We've done the largest study of millionaires here at Ramsey. So much time was put into this study. And we found that when we look at millionaires, baby steps millionaires, net worth millionaires, whatever you want to call them, it was clear that these people, they valued paying off their houses. They paid for their homes, their home residences. They were maybe purchased with a mortgage, but it was a priority to pay them off to where they had that ownership.

1:14:25They had that piece. And so that's something that we know. It's not just an emotional thing. It shows itself in the numbers as well when we look at everyday millionaires. And this is what I love about SmartVestor Pros. You tell them what your goals are, and they lock arms with you to accomplish your goals. They don't call you stupid and try to sell you a product.

1:15:26We talked about it on our last call with Scott, but if you need help with investing, you need a good SmartVestor Pro in your corner, or someone who's going to listen to you, right? They're not going to sit back there and tell you that what you're doing is stupid and not explain it to you. You don't want that. Our SmartVestor pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher. Hear that? Heart of the teacher. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years, which means these folks are going to sit down with you. They're going to listen to you. They're going to teach you.

1:15:55They're interested in you understanding so that you guys can work together. SmartVestor pros can create a plan to help you reach your goals and help you make informed investing decisions. We'll show you up to five SmartVestor pros in your area for free. And then it's up to you to vet them. You can interview them. You can decide which one you want to work with. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor to find an investing pro near you. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, go ahead and click that link in the description. Hey, real quick. We were talking about this off air with Brother Scott there for that last caller.

1:16:27I like that dude. I did too. I always try to be compassionate here. So I'm going to put myself in the seat of his financial advisor. And I have a client that comes and says, hey, I'm going to sell a rental property that's in another state. And I'm going to get$250 ,000 of equity. I want to pay off my house and pay off my Jeep. And it's a logical question. What's your interest rate on your house? 2.9? Uh-huh. Okay. I can get you. The market returns the last two years have been 23%. It can feel financially foolish to do that. Yes. And if you're looking at a calculator, I want to honor that investment guy on the other side of the table.

1:17:05You're right. Yes. You're right. And I think that's where if you are walking in to sit with a financial professional, whether it's somebody you found in the yellow pages because I'm 180 years old that you found online or a smart investor, I think it's important to come in and say, until I don't owe anybody anything, I'm solving for peace. And then we'll start solving for return. Yes. And I get what you're saying. I appreciate it. By the way, I will never, ever, ever, ever put my money in an annuity. I know that you make more money on that. I'm not going to do it. But I do get there is a math problem here where you think what I'm doing is foolish.

1:17:44And mathematically, I'll even agree with you. That's right. As for me and my house, we're solving for peace. We're solving for not owing anybody anything. And then we'll start playing the calculator games. Yeah, John, I'm glad that you said that because that is so true. when that guy called in and he said, yeah, my investor wants me to do this. My first brain goes to, well, yeah, like there's a lot worse you could do with that money, right? And I wanna remind people listening, we have a method that works and we have a way of thinking around here. And it's not just numbers. We're always factoring in the person.

1:18:17We're factoring in who you are and how you want to feel, right? And that's been a theme throughout the show, even just today where we're trying to solve for people's freedom we're trying to solve for their peace and that goes beyond mathematical equations math is certainly a part of it numbers of course we're talking about money behavior is part of it we talked about that before and the emotional part is also very very real so when you sign up for the ramsey plan yes we're giving you a series of seven baby steps yes we're telling you to budget yes we're telling you to live on less than you make but it's all so that and it's so that you can have it's not just building wealth but it's having this life of peace and it's being able to give like no one else.

1:18:54So later you can give and live like no one else. Like that's the whole part of it. And so peace is at the core of that every single time. And so you're going to hear that theme throughout the show when we answer people's questions. All right. I love that discussion, but now we're going to get to Jen who's in Scranton, Scranton, Pennsylvania. How can we help Jen? Hi, John and Jade. How are you guys doing? Excellent. Ridiculous. We're running a scam called a podcast. It's the best. that's funny that's funny well i'm hoping that you can help uh my husband and i settle a disagreement yes my favorite yeah not that you guys are disagreeing just i like this type of call awesome um our question is should we be on the hook for part of the student loan debt that our son accrued due to bad advice that he received from us when he started college when we ourselves didn't know any better about taking student loans.

1:19:48Great question. So you advised him to take out the student loans back in the day? Yes, we did. And I don't even think he was really ready to go to college initially. So he changed his major a couple times. And there's some health issues thrown in there as well. So he's racked up about$60 ,000. Luckily, he's graduating in June with a Bachelor of Science in Supply Chain Logistics and Transportation Management. You know, he's job searching. I don't know if he's necessarily the most motivated to job search right now. He is working full time. But he, I don't know, I think morally because we gave him the bad advice and we kind of pushed him to go to college before he was ready, I kind of feel like we're on the hook morally for that.

1:20:37My husband, he's been in the trades. He never had any student loan debt. I myself was, I'm a teacher, so I have a master's in teaching. So I got some student loan debt from, you know, for my, for my profession. I've, I've since paid it off and whatnot. But so I thought that, you know, our son was just doing the normal thing. Yeah. So we're, yeah, do you have any money? The question is money. Could you write him a check for$30 ,000 today? No. So here's the deal. We're graduates of Financial Peace University. We're currently finishing Baby Step 2. We're going to have$113 ,000 of consumer debt paid off by June.

1:21:25This coming June? Yeah, this coming June. Okay, June. Yeah, so we're really close. Thank you. So I don't know. What do you guys think? Should we at some point help him pay it back? I want to say something mean, okay? Is that cool? Okay. Yeah, it's totally cool. And my husband's here right now with me too. What's your husband's name? His name is Mike. All right, Mike, we hear you on the line. Chime in at any time. Okay, so here's... I have this conversation a lot with folks who call the show and they want to go into ministry. And they went and got a degree in something. And not necessarily a dumb thing.

1:22:04They got a degree in business and they took out 70 grand and they called and they say, quote unquote, I feel like I'm being called to the ministry, right? Or I want to go do this other thing. And what I always tell folks is you dug yourself a hole that you have to, with integrity, refill before you start living into... That's why we tell people to don't go into debt, right? Because then you're faced with these moral dilemmas. and you regardless of if you think you morally have an obligation to your son you don't have any money and so you can't and it might be something that you sit down with your son and you say hey we're this old and we're still wrestling with debt um we want to walk alongside you and so in five years or in 10 years if you've paid off this much we'll be in a position to help you this like something like that i okay jade and i may disagree i like the way you're thinking I wouldn't make it so caustic as you've, like, it's not a moral failure, but I do love the Maya Angelou quote, like, do the best you can, and when you learn more, do better, right?

1:23:13Like, change what you know. And so I like that you are going, oh, gosh, we told you to do this. And by the way, growing up in Houston, Texas, where it's a thousand degrees, when I was a kid playing soccer, like a six, seven-year-old, we were not allowed to drink water during athletic events because the prevailing science was it would give you cramps. We had to eat orange slices, right? It's madness. And my parents didn't know any better. None of the parents did. And so we'd be like, I need some water. I'm dying. And they're like, no water. It's bad for you, right? And so as a parent, you do the best you can.

1:23:46And then when you know better, then you sit down with your kids and say, man, I messed this up. And so here's the next thing going forward. And so when it comes to money, man, yeah, your kid took your advice and now he's 60 grand in the hole. And yeah, I think it's right for you to say, hey, we gave you bad advice. We don't have any money. We're working to dig this thing out. And we're going to like, man, the quicker you can get this paid off, that'd be awesome. And if we get in a position where we can help you, we're going to. And I would. I'd treat it like the baby steps. You pay off your debt, save up the three to six months, start investing.

1:24:17And when you get to baby step five, if you wanna say, instead of putting money towards a 529, which is what we would and should have done, we're gonna put that towards the debt payments and help you run this thing back. I actually really love that idea because that's probably what you would have done if you had a little bit more time, right? You would have put a certain amount aside every single month to put towards education. And it's not too late to do that. it's just going to have a little interest on the side right it's on the back end well probably he didn't just take out loans just for tuition room and board he probably took out the full loans and had his fun too right and so some of that he needs to have some skin in the game too i think also i don't know that you need to swoop in with sixty thousand dollars and wipe it clean but i i like the idea of you saying hey we gave you bad advice and so we're gonna be a part of paying the piper on this, but he has to have some skin in the game too.

1:25:24Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jay, this is John, and we're going back to the phone lines where we have Mark in Charleston, South Carolina. Hey, Hey, Mark, how are you? Good. How are you? Doing good. How can John and I help? So I was really close to I was three hundred dollars away from being financially or debt free aside from my car and mortgage. And then a bad life event sent me spiraling down and I have recollected all of that debt back. So I'm currently, including house and car, I'm 169 in the hole with about$20 ,000 in personal debts. What happened, man?

1:26:14The mother of my child cheated on me with a guy that she was employed for and sent me back down to an unholy lifestyle, I should say. Can we – as we dig out of this, and Jade's going to give you an ironclad path, okay? Okay. But here's where I want to start with it, okay? Yeah. A real bad thing happened?

1:26:45and what is my and going to be? And it's my responsibility. I want you to own. I went and chose to handle this bad thing in these ways. I did. Yes. Okay. There's no doubt about that. Okay. That ownership is critical for the next step. Yeah. Right. And so, man, I hate that that dude, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I hate that happened to you. and I hate that like your default setting was I'm going to go run back and make a bunch of bad decisions and unhealthy decisions and here I am. And so that sense of ownership will be what gets you out of this mess. Cool? Yeah. All right, cool. Same team.

1:27:30So let's spread it out because I do think that mentally it helps when, and this is for anybody, when you're listing out your debt smallest to largest, baby step two, which is the step that We pay off consumer debt. It is just that. It's consumer debt. And so let's leave the mortgage out of it for a moment. And that's going to help you mentally to get your head around what the task at hand is. So can you tell me what your debt is aside from the mortgage? $65 ,911. Okay. And I want you to list out what those are. For now, they don't need to be smallest to largest. Just list out what they are. Oh, yeah, they are.

1:28:07um so like tell me how much the car is tell me how much is on credit cards maybe tell me how much is personal loans that sort of deal okay so um the car i have 37 178 um personal loans that are right now past due okay um are 18 to 88 okay and then the rest are all in collections, which is$10 ,444. Okay. So the good news is I see a couple of things right away that we can do to get you some quick wins. Because when you're in baby step two, paying off the consumer debt, it's all about quick wins. That's how you maintain just feeling good about it, right? Thank you. I was looking for the word. That's how you maintain momentum.

1:28:59And that's for anybody listening. So whenever you have debts and collections, that can feel terrible because you've overdued and they're blowing up your line. 1-800-PAY-ME is calling you. But the good news is now you have bargaining power. And so instead of paying$10 ,400, you're going to pay like 30 % of this. And so you're going to save up. Your first number one goal is, okay, let me just, instead of paying them a bunch of small payments or coming up with a payment plan, I'm going to meet my other minimum payments and I'm going to stack up any other margin that I can for a little while and I'm going to save up, I don't know, three or$4 ,000 and then I'm going to call them up and I'm going to settle all of these individually for cash.

1:29:39And I'm looking for 20 to 30 % of the actual what to do. So if you have one that's$4 ,000, you can offer them to 200, two or 300 and see if they'll take it. Do you see what I'm saying? Okay. And when you do that, you want to make sure you get the deal in writing before you pay. Don't give them access to your checking account, and you want to make sure it's in writing first, and they will do it. They have the means to do that. So if you talk to someone on the line that says, well, I don't know if I can do that. Yes, you can. Hang up and call to the next person, okay? So you're going to have to, that's going to feel like a full-time job to do that, but trust me, it's going to be worth it.

1:30:14You're going to save$7 ,000 doing it that way. Okay, so that's homework number one. Homework number two that I see right off the bat is this car. So it's$37 ,000. Do you happen to know offhand what it's worth? Probably around$35 ,000. Love that for you. Sweet. Okay. So you have a couple of options. I don't know what your income is. Tell me what your income is. So reliably, Reliably, my, so I'm on VA disability. Reliably, it is$4 ,080. Okay. And what is it unreliably? Unreliably, it can vary from six to seven grand. Okay. What's the$2 ,000 that you're getting that doesn't always come through? From a side hustle.

1:31:11Okay. What keeps you from getting a full-time job, like even at Home Depot? Well, it kind of is my full-time job. So the mother of my son and I, we share custody, and the days I have him, I don't work. And that's only due to lack of support right now. But hopefully my parents and I have found an opportunity for them to move down here to where I'm at. and they can help out. So after that, then I can turn this side hustle into a full-time business operation. Okay. What does childcare look like? How old's your son? He's five. So is he in school? He goes to school right now, but he only goes to school for three hours a day because he's in early childhood development because he has autism.

1:32:12Okay. Okay. So for now, and I know you're working on that, but just for today, we'll say that I think that the best thing for you to do right now is to save up the margin from your$4 ,000 to$6 ,000 and do this debt collections deal. And in the meantime, yeah, I'm going to go over to the credit union and I'm going to say, hey, I need a$7 ,000 loan. And$2 ,000 of that is going to go to meet the difference on this car. And then the other$5 ,000 is so that you can get a junker in cash to keep yourself going. Maybe you spend$6 ,000. But the point is I want you going down in debt from$37 ,000 to around$5 ,000 or$8 ,000.

1:32:51Do you see what I'm saying there? Yeah. Now, my guess is that your credit is horrible. It's, yeah, terrible. Yes. At this point, and I'm just telling you this, I think that anything is going to be better for you. As far as interest rate, I'm not saying get a payday loan, never, never do that. But if you can put it on a credit card, if you can put it on any sort of personal loan, that is going to be good for you because we're going from$37 ,000 to$8 ,000, right? So this is a good thing. And now that you've got the momentum back, you'll have that money back in your pocket. You can knock that debt out because that now becomes your smallest debt aside from the collections.

1:33:28OK. And so once the collections are settled, now we're tackling that personal loan that you took out in order to get out of this car. And in the meantime, you're selling that car. Kelly Blue Book personal sale is what you're looking to do. And that's going to free up so much money because I know that that car payment is going to go back into your pocket. And then from there, now we can start working on the personal loan that's past due. and because it is personal you might be able to pop in there and make a deal on that too likely not but at least now at this point we're just looking at chopping down an eight thousand dollar tree which you can do

1:34:13hey guys dave ramsey here every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:35:02All right, we've got Kelly who's calling in from L.A. What's going on, Kelly? How can we help today? Hello. We spend$1 ,700 or more on gas every single month. And I want to know if we should get a hybrid. That's a lot. Whoa. that's a lot how do you so to put it in context i filled up today my truck and it was the most expensive it's ever been by like 25 and i i actually jade and i were talking off air like the thought of me struggling to make it and then all of a sudden i've got to fill up once a week and i have an extra hundred bucks like that's a lot of money yeah where do you get 1700 a month though so my husband is a private investigator he works in his car if they turn it off then he's like cooking so the engine's always running yep and he has to travel really far distances about a year ago he bought a truck and then it went up because the task mileage was really bad so it's just added up and now the more he works the more it costs us yeah um is he in a position where, like everybody's having to do right now, where he can escalate his rates to cover the gas?

1:36:20I mean, they have like a gas reimbursement, but it's only, I think, like 83 cents a mile or whatever. And it hasn't gone up? Yeah, it hasn't increased. If I were him, I'd ask about that. I'd say, hey, obviously, you know, and I don't know how long he's been working for that company. Let's say he's been there since 2020 and the rate's never gone up. I'd say, hey, I've been here. This has always been the reimbursement rate. Obviously, prices have gone up. Is it possible that we can adjust this with inflation because I'm spending this X amount of percentage more than I was when things started? And kind of just lay out the numbers in a diplomatic way.

1:37:01Yeah, I talked to one person who works in the oil and gas industry, and he said they're doing something called a supercharge, which is we're telling you all as customers right now it's going to go up, but it's not a permanent price increase. It's just because things are bananas right now and so uncertain. What keeps you all from just taking the truck down and trading in for a Prius? Yeah. I don't know. I actually never even thought of that. Yeah. We got the truck for about 9 ,000. He really wants to sit in a truck because he's kind of tall, so he wants something where he can fit. I'm a big guy, too, and I drove a Prius for years, and Dave used to laugh at me, but I tell you what, that thing got a million miles to the gallon.

1:37:43It's pretty sweet. Could you sit in it for 12 hours a day? Oh, yeah. It was awesome. Oh, well, maybe we should look into trading it in then. Well, let me be super transparent. I don't drive one anymore. Now I drive a truck, right? But it's less because I'm a tall guy and more because I do a lot of outdoor stuff and I got a place out in the woods that I've always – I use the truck, if that makes sense. But get something that's comfortable. Yeah, split the difference and get what makes sense. But the point is you're going down and you're going to a vehicle that has better gas mileage. That's the point.

1:38:19And obviously not going into debt for it. and um that's the the main the main thing for me is like pan out from the gas situation millions of people right now are having to deal with the fact that their job is different now whether it's because of ai was because of gas prices it's become uh energy sectors is a zoo right now like whatever you're having to do step back and ask yourself what changes do we need to make in our house we don't want to be making these changes not by our hand but it's in our lap we got And stay inside your value system, which is we're not going to borrow any money. We're not going to leverage this moment and get ourselves in a two or five or 10 year dilemma because we were uncomfortable right now.

1:39:03And so either y 'all need to adjust your spending up or down to accommodate the increased gas prices, or maybe his boss will say you're right. Or maybe 83 cents a gallon. I mean, 83 cents a mile of reimbursement. That's pretty good reimbursement. maybe I'll reusing the extra as to pay bills with, and now it just needs to go with what the reimbursement is designed for, which is to pay for the gas. And you're going to have to cut spending somewhere else. Or maybe you just go take the truck and get a used Prius or used hybrid Camry and you're off to the races, but it doesn't give you permission to go be reckless with your spending and borrowing.

1:39:37Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes. Everybody's feeling the gas prices go up. All right. John is in Denver, Colorado. John, how can we help you today? Thanks for taking my call. So I'm in a bit of a pickle and I'm just wondering if I could, I should sell my house. Interesting. Give us the deets. I love pickles. So yeah, they're delicious, but maybe not this one. So I bought my house around two years ago with a friend and a few family members. And the plan, yeah. Strike one, strike two, strike three. When you say that, can you clarify? When you say you bought it with them, is everybody's name on the mortgage?

1:40:21No, unfortunately it's just me. So you're the only one on the mortgage. No, that's actually good. That's probably the best case scenario, actually. Okay, so you bought the house with your brother and two friends? My sister, her fiancé, and a friend, yeah. Sister, fiancé, and friend, okay. And basically I'm in a situation right now where almost all of them have completely moved out, and now my mortgage is looking like it's going to go up like around$200 by June. Why? Do you have an adjustable rate mortgage? It's not an adjustable rate mortgage. I think it has to do with my property taxes. Okay, so it's going up by$200.

1:40:58Unfortunately, the value of my house has gone down. So I think if I sell it, I talk to my real estate agent and I got it down to a reasonable price. Why'd the value go down? Or did you overpay? So, the value actually of when it was evaluated when I bought the house was actually, I think, like 15 more than what I paid for it. I think there's just not a lot of good comps in the area. So, there's not like the value ends up being a little bit less than it was. Tell us real numbers. Tell us what you bought it for and what you think it's worth. So, I bought it for$460. um it evaluated for at at 475 okay and uh it i just got a an appraisal um of like a few months ago because i was planning on doing a refinance and it evaluated at 450 yikes i'm sorry yeah quite a bit of difference um so i'm in kind of a situation right now where like i did the math and it's looking like after uh you know commissions for the sellers and buyers agent um i'm going to be losing money on it.

1:42:09But is it worth it to just do that, take on like a little debt and just pay that off or hold out, even though realistically it's going to be really tight being just me? How much is a little money? Because I, one time I took$4 ,000 to closing with me to get out of a house. And that was the beginning of me and my wife starting baby step two. And it ended up changing our entire life. If you're, if you're talking about, you're going to be$50 ,000. Now that's a different story. I think with fees, you're going to be, you're going to be getting close to 30. Yeah. It's looking like at worst, it's going to be around 30.

1:42:49And at best, if, if it doesn't, you know, if I don't sell it at a reasonable price, it's going to be around like 15. So not great. But at least like if I were to get like a personal loan and come up with a little bit of money myself to maybe cover a little bit of a difference. You know, I can't see myself taking more than like a year if I work really hard to pay that off. Well, because I'm also thinking you've got time like when when the house goes on the market, like you've got a couple of months there to save up some cash. Like how realistically in three months, how much cash could you save up?

1:43:23i mean i know it's hard because you don't have roommates anymore and you're trying to pay this big old mortgage but is there anything you could do to to start stacking some money towards this i don't know to be honest with with with no help it's it's going to be really tight i it's the problem is the reason why i want to sell in the first place um is because i feel like it's going to be so tight i'm not going to be able to put money away can you like i'm going to be a situation you know where something happens i just end up losing my house anyway can you rent out the rooms Can you do like temporary rent out the rooms to other folks while you get this money together to sell the house?

1:43:55You know, I've looked for I've been looking for rentals when people first started leaving. And I haven't really had any luck with that. I've tried furnished finders. I've tried reaching out on like Facebook Marketplace, joining groups. And I've even lowered the price three times at this point. And maybe it's just because they don't want to have like a roommate or I'm not exactly sure. But I just haven't had any luck finding someone interested. I mean, this is a cautionary tale. We tell folks all the time, you know, do not buy a house with the intent that somebody else is going to help you prop up the mortgage payment because this sort of thing happens all the time.

1:44:29The only way out of this is through it. You're either going to have to take a personal loan for the difference and eat that cost, or you're going to have to find a way to buy yourself time with roommates or stacking up the cash yourself.

1:44:53All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:45:37The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection that you need. All right, we got Sam who's in Fresno, California. Sam, how can we help today? Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. So I am a single mom of a nine-year-old. Her dad hasn't been around for about five years. He actually gave up parenting time if I agreed not to pursue the court-ordered child support.

1:46:18I spent$100 ,000 on legal and travel expenses, and that just had a major financial and mental impact on me. I'm sorry, how much did you say you spent? $100 ,000. Oh, wow. Why? Wow. He wasn't looking to reach an agreement. He was just looking to ruin my life, which he did. Okay. So I'm in a great relationship now. You know, we're making future plans talking about what, you know, marriage might look like for us. And we have discussed me potentially working less to be more present for my daughter. And, you know, I'm aware that I'm the one with the child. He doesn't have any kids. And I don't want to put more on him than is fair.

1:47:05I've had resentment in past relationships. I do not want to recreate that. So how do I lead into building a life and finances together without feeling like I'm taking from him or like I don't deserve that? I think you're asking like three different questions at once. And that's why the outcome feels so heavy. And so number one, your body's working perfectly. Like your child's dad gave your child up for a number.

1:47:42right? Like what kind of scumbag does that? I get divorced, I get breakups, but I can't, my daughter's been gone for two days. She comes back today and I haven't been able to catch my breath and I'm not special. Right. So like your body has a lived experience with a terrible human being. And so forget the money and forget the support and all that. Your body is saying, hey, we've run this before and it doesn't end well. And all that means is it's just trying to keep you safe. The second part of it is the story you're telling about this is my body feels a certain way. It must be because I don't deserve it.

1:48:24You're making up a story about yourself, right? Yeah. And so what we're going to stop doing is making up stories about ourselves. We're just going to tell the truth. And the truth is I'm worth being loved. I'm worth being in a relationship where I'm safe. I'm worth being not connected to a scumbag who would give his child up for a number. And that tells me all I need to know about a grown man, right? Like, so all that kind of stuff. The third part of this is you're obviously really smart and really talented. Fair?

1:48:56Yeah. Okay. So, you know, just looking at data that attaching yourself to a boyfriend, no matter how stable he is, how great of a guy he is, he might be awesome. That still puts you in a very vulnerable position. Right? Because you're trying to build something. You're trying to build a house without a foundation, without legal protection, without emotional, like we looked at each other in front of our friends and family and priests and God and said, till death do us part. You're trying to build a house without that foundation. And your body's right to sound that alarm. And so I would rather y 'all in this, and you may be past dating, right?

1:49:40That sounds like 16 year olds, something 16 year olds do, right? But y 'all are boyfriend and girlfriend. It's awesome. Nobody roots for love more than I do. I love it. Right. And so now as we're going to talk about values conversations, who do we want to be? What kind of life do we want to build together? And then when you're ready to say, I do, and he's ready to say, I do put his money in his actions, where his mouth is. And you too, then we're going to start combining money because now I've got a foundation that's, yes, it's got some legal protection. Yes, it's got some emotional, spiritual protection, but it's you and I, we put a stake in the ground on this day at this time in front of these people and said, till death do us part.

1:50:15And now we're going to say, let's share a checking account. And then you're going to have to practice. I say this with a smile on my face. If you were here in person, you'd see me smiling, right? Like some of it, this sounds so callous, you're just going to have to get over. Like, I don't want to feel resentment because he loves me and wants to take care of me. And then you're going to have to go, I have that feeling and that feeling's dumb. Right? And I'm going to like, if we're married, we're building a life together and I'm going to be a part-time mom and he's going to be the full-time employee.

1:50:43Awesome. Because we are building something together. Right? And he is in a relationship. He's thinking about marrying a woman who got done real, real wrong. And so he has to know part of him loving you well is being extra transparent, extra honest, extra patient with big feelings. Because your big feelings are right. They've kept you safe up until now, right? Yeah, yeah, they are. You get what I'm saying? So there's multiple problems here, and you think it's all one big bucket, and then you feel crazy. When you pull the problems apart, man, my body's working pretty dang good. I'm not going to start building a house without a foundation under it.

1:51:23I'll start talking about the design, the architecture and design plans. That's awesome. but we're not going to start building. And man, until that day, I'm taking care of me and mine because that's, that's what I got. That's my responsibility as the adult and the parent of this kid. Yeah. I guess I never let go of that. Like it's been so long. It'll hang on to you until you practice being seen and known by somebody else. And you're going to have to, it sounds nutty. You're going to have to teach your nervous system, not intellectually, but through practice that I am worth being loved. and that's hard to do.

1:51:58It just takes time. It takes practice. Yeah. But you sound like you are on the right path. Yeah. And I know that doesn't feel like you're on the right path, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like, man, you are, this guy has won the lottery with you. He thinks so. Okay. Do you believe him? Well, I'm working on it. I am working on it. That's awesome. That's good. That's a win. That means you're moving in the right. You don't just say, no, I don't believe him. You're like, I'm working on it. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely got us. We've been together. Yeah. Well, I mean, it sounds like you're on the right path here.

1:52:43But if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, your body would be working perfectly if it was like, man, I don't know if I should go all in and let this boyfriend of mine take care of me and make myself economically vulnerable, emotionally vulnerable, relationally vulnerable, bring another man into my daughter's life after she's already had just nonsense in her first image of a male role model. Like your body's right to not anchor into that. Wow. To not build a house without a foundation. So your body's working pretty good. I love that. I think we have time to take Matthew in Virginia Beach.

1:53:17Matthew, we're up against the clock, but I think we can help you. What you got? Hi. I have about$140 ,000 for my engineering degree that I got in student loan debt. I built up about$70 ,000 between my savings and my brokerage account. It's kind of tough because the numbers kind of say long term I'd make more money if I would leave it invested. But I could pull it out and pay off my debt. Listen, I'm going to take that money every single time and use it to pay off debt only because, and I said it earlier in the show, but I'm going to say it again. One thing we believe around here, and we know it because we've seen it work with millions of people and not just folks out there.

1:54:01John's done it. I've done it. George, all of us. And we know that your income is the biggest wealth building tool you have. You need your income at your disposal. And that's the way that you build wealth. So as long as you're paying money in debt payments, you do not have your full income at your disposal, nor do you have your full range of peace or freedom. And so by you taking this money out of savings, this is non-retirement funds, I'm assuming, you can take that money out of a brokerage account, cash it in and pay off this debt. You are one step closer to freedom and you're one step in the right direction to having the full power of your income work for you.

1:54:37And so I would do that every single day a million times to find that freedom. John? I mean, yeah. It's easy. That's the easy button. That's a no-brainer for me. And I get it. We all like the feeling of seeing a pile of money sitting there. But if you just do basic math, you will realize very quickly, if I have$140 ,000, but I have$70 ,000 of debt, or if I have$70 ,000, I'm sorry, in cash, but I have$140 ,000 of debt, I don't actually have$70 ,000. I'm negative 70. You're just holding the bank's 70 grand for them. That's right. So the math will also tell you that we're right.

1:55:28When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90 % of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

1:56:06It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

1:56:29our ramsay show scripture and quote of the day joshua 1 8 keep this book of the law always on your lips meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do everything written in it then you will be prosperous and successful jk rowling said this british accent do it it is impossible to live without failing at something unless you live so cautiously you might as well not have lived at all terrible that was you nailed it i mean harry moving on moving on we've got lucy who's in san lucy is in san jose california not san josey how can we help lucy hi how are you guys good what's up how can we help yeah so i'm in kind of a difficult situation.

1:57:24I'll kind of explain my debt first and then the situation. So I have $57 ,000 in student loan debt and the interest is around 6%. My payments are$640 a month. I do have 13 months left of forbearance. So if I needed to defer at any point, I am able to do that. But obviously the interest is still accruing if I do go on forbearance. That's right. I have$13 ,000 in a car payment. My car broke about nine months ago, and I just got a new car, used car. The payments on that are$275 a month, and it is a 9 % interest rate. I have no idea why I have good credit, but I tried to get it lower, and I couldn't.

1:58:12So that's at 9%. Okay. um and that's my debt and I have fourteen thousand five hundred dollars saved um and my dilemma right now is that um I've been having a lot of health issues I had to get a couple of surgeries just from actually injuries like accidents and following that I started to have like a lot of health issues just like insomnia and and other things that kind of started from that and my health is kind of like really deteriorated. I'm 30 years old. I just turned 30 in March. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah. And then also I realized that I have mold in my apartment. It's hidden, but it's definitely here.

1:58:59And I've spent a lot of money out of pocket trying to like get the apartment complex to do something. And they're basically because of the air test they did, they're saying that it's not significant enough. How do you know that it is significant enough? Well, to be honest, like just to save your guys' time, it's really hard to know what you're dealing with unless you can find it and it's hidden. And I know that it's here because my apartment has a very earthy, bad smell when everything's closed up and it even kind of lingers even when everything's open. And when they tested it, it just didn't, it didn't show that there was mold or that there was enough mold.

1:59:42Right. It said there's a normal amount of mold. And apparently the air test isn't super accurate because it's kind of like a point in time. So it's like, it could fluctuate. Right. Understood. And so to be honest with you, I don't know that it's affecting my health yet. And it's also very hard to know because when's the lease up I've had. So I'm on a month to month lease, which is nice. You're out. Just go move. Yeah. So here's here's what I did. And just so you guys know, I do make good income. I make 135 a year. And after I live in California, which is a mistake, I'm going to try to get out of here.

2:00:18But I after taxes and everything, I take home 7100 a month. Good. Go ahead. Sorry. No, I'm saying that's good. Get to your question. Tell me tell me what you're trying to do. Okay, so here's where I messed up. So ideally, I want to pay off my debt as soon as possible. If I stayed in a rent range that I'm at now, I paid$2 ,500 with everything. I could save like$2 ,000 a month, which is great. Or not save, but put that towards my debt. Sure. What I'm even sick of doing is my emotions took over, and I found an apartment that would be really good for my health and that I really like. And rent here is just insane.

2:01:00I got locked into a good rate because I moved during the pandemic. You already took the lease. You already signed up for something new. I did sign it. So my question is, do I break it? Because it's$3 ,400 a month. That's with everything. And given the debt that I'm in. What's the fee to break the lease? So I probably need to pay the first month's rent because it will definitely get rented quick. It's a great place, which is$3 ,400. but on top of that I'm going to have to pay rent where I am until I find a new spot that's hopefully cheaper but it might not you were going to have to do anyway yeah so that that part is that part's neither here nor there because you you signed a lease anyway that you were going to have to pay two rents which is wild but oh no no I wouldn't pay two rents actually um because the date that I selected as my move-in date um there wouldn't be a double rent so it would just be for the one.

2:01:53But hold on. Like you have$14 ,000 saved. I would take that first month's rent, go hand it to them and say, I'm out of this lease. I haven't even moved in and I'm breaking the lease. And if you got cash, thank goodness. And then on your drive home, have three other apartments you go look at. All of this emotion and story is compounding on itself. And it's a really simple, I'm going to pay$3 ,400. And we jokingly say, it's your stupid tax. I did something dumb, right? I got emotional and I did a thing. Cool. We've all done it. And it's going to cost me that. And I'm going to be down to, what is that?

2:02:3010 ,000, 11 ,000. Right. In savings. And then I'm going to, on the way home, I'm going to put a deposit down a new place and then call it. Yep. Okay. Yeah. And I should get my deposit back from them. Say again. I actually had 18 ,000 saved, but I had to pay a$3 ,000 deposit. And you won't get that back? Or will you? I should get it back. I don't think they can legally keep it because I didn't move in. So there's no fee that like, there's no cleaning or anything. Yeah. Plus the rent that I'm paying here. So yeah, it would be like, I'd be losing like 5 ,000. That's fine. John and I are fine with all of that.

2:03:06You can't, you cannot stay at the new apartment. So if it's cost, whether it costs you 500 more dollars to get out or, or 5 ,000 bucks, you gotta leave.

2:03:18You gotta the math and I should still be able to save around$900 to $1 ,000 but you think it's not worth it. Darling, you're broke. You've got$57 ,000 of student loan debt. Yeah, you're broke, hon. I say that because I love you. You don't have any money. And you're going to feel house poor. It's going to take you double as long because to your point, it's going to cut into your margin by over$1 ,000 so it's going to take you double as long to pay off the debt. It's not worth it. What was your card note again how much do you owe on that car six hundred and forty dollars a month no it's 275 a month no no so this this yeah 275 yeah you know i think i was trying to justify it like this is a one-year commitment to get my health in order i know but just tell me how tell me how much you owe on your on your car 13 000 yeah i just got the car in february i i put 2 000 down okay here's what i want you to do i want you to go settle up with the apartment complex asap today because Here's the thing I know about autoimmune issues and overall general health issues.

2:04:20The more stress you have, the more all those things are exacerbated. Right. And so let's stop going. Let's don't say, I'm going to take a year for my health. Because your body is going to register 50 % to 60 % of my take-home income is in this apartment. Right. It will know you're not safe. It will know that debt's only going up because I can't even barely keep up. You're going to pay minimums on your student loans, and the balance is going to move$1. Right? And so your body will be keeping that score, to quote Vander Kolk. So let's go get cleaned out of that. And then this afternoon, with whatever cash you have left, minus$1 ,000, I want you to pay the car off.

2:04:56Yep, keep$1 ,000 saved. That's your starter emergency fund, no matter what. Keep$1 ,000. Just take action on these things, yeah. Okay. Now, that's what I figured you were going to tell me to do. I think I just needed that reminder. Yeah, it's hard just with the health stuff. It is. But this is going to help your health. Yeah. This is going to help you to John's point. Reducing stress. Yes. And there's just something good about taking action. Like you feel like, okay, I've done, I've actually done something. I didn't just get the research. I didn't just ask more and more questions. I actually went and did the thing and I can see the results.

2:05:30And I think that if you literally take to heart exactly what John said, which is I'm doing this. I don't know what time it is in San Jose, but if it's past business hours, I'm doing this tomorrow. I'm waking up bright and early. I'm going down to the apartment complex. I'm paying whatever I owe them. They're going to refund me back what they owe me for the deposit. Then from there, I'm literally going back home. I'm making the final payment online on my car. I'm keeping the$1 ,000 aside. I'm going down the bank. I'm putting it in a high-yield savings account. You will have done three major things for your future in less than 24 hours.

2:06:02And all you'll have left is$57 ,000 on student loan. Love that. And then you're free. All right, we're out of here. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily. with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.