95. DNC Special: An alternative view from a Trump supporter (David Urban)

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0:49Welcome to The Rest is Politics with me, Alastair Campbell. Sadly, on my own today, not with Rory Stewart, but I do have a very, very interesting guest. because here at the Democratic National Convention, you can tell by the word Democrat, most people here are Democrats. I've found not just a rare Republican, but a rare Republican who is a close friend, confident advisor, including in the 2016 election campaign, to one Donald Trump. Listeners to this podcast will know Donald Trump is not one of my favorite people. So David Urban, you were apparently a very good footballer in your youth, then military.

1:26Yeah, and I'm charming, Alex. You forgot that. You forgot that charming. I saw it here. But you kind of background his business and politics. And now the reason you're here, you're the kind of resident Trump supporter on CNN. So first of all, I want to say, a lot of people like me in Britain find it incredible that Donald Trump became president, find it incredible that he's not politically dead after all the things that he's said and done. So I want to ask you, you seem like a reasonably good guy. Why is he still in the race? Why is he still there? This is what befuddles liberal elites in London and New York, because you don't understand the rest of the country.

2:01Alice, I wish I could take you in a car, take you to my hometown, Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. Blue collar, once great mill town, a factory town. 15 ,000 people used to work there, right? Where my dad worked at a factory. So my dad, when he graduated from high school in the mid, early 50s, if you had a strong back and a good work ethic, you could go down to the factory and get a job and raise your family. and have a life, right? And those jobs all kind of went away, and that hope went away. And so there are people in America, in Aliquoba, Pennsylvania, Kannapolis, North Carolina, and Flint, Michigan, lots of places in our country that had kind of lost hope.

2:39They felt that nobody in the political class was listening to them. He doesn't listen to them. No, no, he does. Donald Trump doesn't listen to them. No, no, he does. People feel like they speak for him. People feel in America that the government, right, is so big and bureaucratic, and it's non-responsive to them. And so they feel that he is their voice, that he says things that they would say to the government. He says things that they would say to other people if they could, people in power, if they could, if they had a voice. So he's tapped into the zeitgeist of that group. But David, the difference between them and him is that he has had real power.

3:13He had four years as president where he could have really changed their lives for the better. But one of the lines of attack here all week has been that he doesn't really care about them. He cares about himself and the rich. Is that not a fair accusation? Well, that's an accusation. I don't think it's a fair accusation. You don't think it's fair. No, listen. Under the Trump presidency, pre-COVID, right? Let's remember that COVID came across and destroyed everything that happened in the world. Would you handle badly? Well, no, I don't know if you handle badly. If you look at Operation Warp Speed, right?

3:39The U.S. government, right? Jumped through incredible hoops to produce a vaccine that helped stop the spread of the disease. You wanted to stay bleach. No, no, that's not even factually correct. If I had Daniel Deal, listen, I'll get you the facts. I'll be able to do the facts now. But listen. I'm going to have Daniel Dale sit with us and fact check. Listen, so under the Trump administration, they got a vaccine. They kept businesses open. Look, if you look at how New York handled COVID and how Florida handled COVID, the number of fatalities are exactly the same, right? And one shut everything down, kept kids out of school, harmed kids' long-term education.

4:10When you look at the guy, you know the guy. I don't know the guy. You know him really, really well. He talks about himself all the time. Oh, absolutely. He's a narcissist. Absolutely. Listen, Donald Trump could do lots better. He doesn't care about the people. No, he does care about the people. Listen, I spent a great deal of time with him, even this past Saturday, as I shared with you. I was with him this past Saturday in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, kind of, you know, a place that once was mighty, right? And has hoped to be mighty again. I watched him talk to more police and firefighters about their lives, their jobs.

4:37Thank you for doing what you do for our community, our country. Talked to one of the Secret Service agents that helped save his life, a woman who's gone on maternity leave. I mean, I've seen him as a human being care about people one-on-one. He's not reduced to some caricature or cartoon figure when I'm around him, right? It's easy to say things about people you don't really know. I've fortunately been up close, but do I wish he'd talk about things differently? Do I wish he's this today in North Carolina? He was talking about the abysmal jobs report that's out, right? The jobs report that just came out today, 818 ,000 jobs that revised the report, okay?

5:11For the past year, from 2023 to 2024 to today, the Biden administration had said, we have a million more jobs than we really have in America. they revised it downward hold on so that jobs report is the biggest downward revision since 2009 in jobs okay five out of the past six jobs reports in the Biden administration have been revised downward okay let me keep going let me keep going unemployment's 4.3 % I've asked you about Donald Trump you wish for Joe Biden no and this is why no and this is why Donald Trump is popular right no he doesn't say these things he talks about himself that's why I'm here Alistair right I'm helping out I'm the man standing there in the wings.

5:50He's standing for office. He's standing for office. He's standing for office and he's got a lot of people standing with him who are going to help him say these things, Alistair. They're going to help him get this message across, right? Because it's important. Right, but you say he's got empathy, which we don't really, doesn't come through in his public persona. You say that he cares about people, but you can't say that he's somebody who believes in decency in public life or telling the truth. He doesn't tell the truth very often, does he? Donald Trump believes, if you read The Art of the Deal, truthful hyperbole.

6:19He didn't even write the art of the deal. Truthful hyperbole. Listen, I'm sure you know quite a few people in your industry that didn't write their own books, okay? Let's not run around in glass houses with stones, okay? So, listen, he is a truthful hyperbole guy, right? So he said - Truthful hyperbole. That's his tagline, right? So it's truthful hyperbole. Listen, if I brought Donald Trump to any town in England and sat him down in a pub, every person in there would want to have a pint with him. When they left, they would say, this is one of the most interesting men and I would vote for him. I'm not saying in europe and in england and other places right there's been this ascendancy of trump-like characters all across the world and it's not because of donald trump it's because people are missing something in their election i get i understand that i understand that i understand that what i i just feel like here we are in america still the most powerful democracy in the world and you've had a guy who lost an election provoked a really really dangerous insurrection or a riot a riot and he's still there still saying that he lost the election now you seem an intelligent guy he didn't he lost lost the election so why do you still support him that's a big lie listen he lost the election i wish he'd won the election he lost the election i support him because in this building right in this building it's worse joe biden listen joe biden says said famously don't compare me to the almighty compare me to the alternative and i and others in our country believe that what's in this building represents worse worse for america not worse people policy the policy the people aren't bad everybody in this building wants the same thing that i want a successful america a better future for their kids and grandchildren a stable economy our allies to be our friends our enemies to be feared right everybody wants the same thing that you and i want for your country i'm country how we get there is something completely different right and so those policy differences are why i support Donald Trump and the Republicans, right?

8:11Because Donald Trump is a Republican. There are people in his building that were colleagues of mine that are friends, Jeff Duncan and Adam Kinzinger and others who are Democrats, Republicans, who say, we need to burn the party down to start over again. We need to go and help these folks. I don't believe that Kamala Harris's economic policies that she's espousing on price controls, which were widely panned by economists on the left, not even economists on the right, but the Washington Post wrote, you know, this isn't a serious proposal. I don't know what the FT or other papers have written about it, but it's just not a serious proposal.

8:43We have inflation in the United States that precludes people, working class people, from paying their bills. They no longer could fill up their gas tanks. There's a restaurant here. You're a lot more disciplined than trying. There's a restaurant here in America. You're a lot better on message than you. But listen, there's a restaurant here in America, Alistair, called Denny's. Denny's is like a breakfast joint, right? So Denny's, in 1977, instituted this breakfast in honor of Hank Aaron, a famous baseball player, called the Grand Slam Breakfast, okay? introduced, it was$1.99, bacon and eggs and some potatoes, right?

9:11And so in the 43 years, it went up$4 to$5.99. In the Biden administration, the four years of the Biden administration, it went up$6,$6 in four years to$12.99 for that breakfast. Now that doesn't seem like, okay, what does that matter? Here's what matters. If you're taking your kids to soccer on a Saturday, you take the family, we're going to go to Denny's for breakfast, six bucks a piece we can afford. that's$24 US dollars for breakfast. We can do that. Now at$13 times four kids, right? You might not be able to afford breakfast with your kids. That's why those things matter. That's why these inflationary policies, the tax code policies that you say, like Harris campaign just said they support$5 trillion in new taxes.

9:54That money comes from someplace, right? It comes from your pocket, my pocket. The people in the Republican party believe that money is better in my pocket than the government's pocket. I can spend it better. Businesses can invest it better. But are the values of the human being, you say it's the alternative, I get that. But do the values of the human being that's at the top of the ticket not matter? And can you really support the values that he represents? Listen, I believe Donald Trump represents the values of, here's the values I believe he represents. And it's a kind of a Rorschach text, just like it is for Kamala Harris, right?

10:23So you see in your elected official, you see in your politicians what you want to see. Kamala Harris, her policy positions to date have been incredibly progressive, right? Gun confiscation, right? I know what you said. So listen, no, no, no. You keep doing the same thing. No, listen, Alistair, I'm going to tell you. So if you look at her policy positions, people say, well, she stands for this. We don't know what she stands for. She hasn't told us what she stands for. My point is about him. Okay, so listen. So people look at Donald Trump and say he stands for limited government, love of our country, patriotism, strong military, allowing our oil and gas industry to flourish.

10:54Strong military where he says these terrible things about - No, listen. Alistair, I've been with him. I've been with him on these cases. Why does he do that stuff? I can tell you on some of these things, I don't believe that they're true. I was with him in Paris for the armistice. No, the thing he said about the medals the other day, I mean. So here's what he said about the medal. I was with him. So what he said about the Medal of Honor, the Medal of Honor and the Presidential Medal of Freedom, right? Two separate things. The Medal of Freedom is given out to artists, athletes. James Taylor gets the Medal of Freedom.

11:20Stevie Wonder, who's performing here this afternoon, I just saw him performing. And so the Medal of Honor is the highest military award you can be given. Completely two separate things, right? The medal, what Trump said, and I was with him. I was with him on Saturday and talked to him about this. Literally, one-on-one, he said, explain this to me. And he said to me, well, David, when you give out the Medal of Honor to somebody, it's a really somber occasion. Somebody's usually dead. The military person is usually dead. You're spinning for him. I'm not spinning. I was with him. You are. You are basically.

11:47Hand to God. Hand to God. I talked to the guy on Saturday. You're communicating. I talked to the guy. You're communicating. On Saturday, he said, when I'm with him, David, the wives are crying. The kids are crying. It's a somber, sad occasion. when you give out the medal of freedom it's a happy time everybody's in a good mood what about suckers and losers yeah i don't suckers and losers listen john kelly right general kelly who's who that's attributed to i've not heard him say it okay i've not heard he said that he said i understand john kelly is an honorable man yeah and i have a great deal of respect for him and fondness for john kelly i've been with president trump in those i was the chairman of the american battle monuments commission i know and that that may not have a lot of meaning to most people but i ran all the cemeteries overseas.

12:26So Cambridge American Cemetery I've been to, right? In your beautiful country and Sorens and France and Normandy. I greeted President Macron and President Trump at the 75th anniversary of D-Day. I've been there. I walked those graves with him. Not once, not once did he ever say those things to me. I took him to West Point, my alma mater. I'm a military officer myself. West Point, duty honored country. I've been around the guy a great deal. Around me, in my presence, he's never expressed anything but ultimate admiration for people in the military in the utmost respect. So maybe he said that to somebody else, or maybe he's made a comment that maybe somebody mistook for that.

13:01I was not in that one-on-one. I will 100 % unequivocally stand by Trump, loving the military, supporting the military, and not denigrating the military. All right, David, listen, we're going to have to take a break, and we'll come back for more of your pro-Trump spin in a minute. This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold-out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org. Jack Daniels and Old No.

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14:38Do you accept that there is a sense of this being a bit of a cult? Oh, listen, I mean, do you think that the Obama fall? It's a movement. I don't think it's a cult, right? I think there's a difference. But when he said he could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and his supporters, he kind of was telling the truth there. Well, listen, I mean, Bill Clinton, look what Bill Clinton did, right? Bill Clinton was the first president who kind of tested that thesis out, right? He didn't kill anybody. Oh, but Bill Clinton did equally. is kind of horrific. Listen, you're as bad as I am, but any question about a Republican, you tell me about a Democrat.

15:07No, but listen, Alistair, I'm just making the analogy for it. That's what you want me here for. Listen, we want you, no, no, no, we want you here because you're one of the few people here who knows Donald Trump. And I'm explaining to you. So I want to know about him. Yeah, I'm explaining to you. I know about these people. No, no. So you're saying, how could Donald Trump exist? Donald Trump couldn't, he couldn't exist, right? But for Bill Clinton, right? If Bill Clinton and John Edwards, who's going to be here today, right? If all these people, Gary Hart, if all these scandals hadn't taken place before and people kind of said, oh, give a pass.

15:34He's guilty of stuff that's way worse. In which, tell me the things are way worse things. Well, I would say, for example - Way worse than having sex with an intern on one of the most sacred icons in America. Yeah, that's not good. On the Resolute Desk. That's pretty bad. Do you really want to put Donald Trump and other presidents in a sexual predator league table? Well, listen, he's got - Your friend, the mooch, your friend, the mooch, said he has got no rivals. No rivals. We could have the mooch on another cast. We'll sit down with the mooch. Maybe I'll go with him, Caddy Kay, and I'll have another on his show.

16:05I think on the Americans no longer, and look, I don't know how I'd say Great Britain, but Americans don't look at their president and say, I need you to be my moral leader. You go to your pastor. That's a big change, though, isn't it? It is a big change, but I think that's been a change. That's kind of gone away. Remember, in America, FDR was in a wheelchair for his entire presidency, and there's not one picture. There's not one picture of the guy in a wheelchair. the press corps has changed america has changed and i think that takes you know from vietnam on right there's been this great distrust in our institutions and government and i think it's eroded and you know people now everyone has clay feet and no matter where you go and i will tell you this covid in this country broke down that trust even further right because i get that because people now trust our government even less and that's scary because the next time the wolf comes people are going to say like oh you cried wolf so many times i'm not really worried that's what cares me.

16:54But that's why part of the job of all politicians should be to protect the institutions. He undermines the institutions left, right and center. Not accepting that election defeat undermines the institutions. I'm not arguing that. Donald Trump lost the election fair and square. But shouldn't that just put him out of the game for good? I don't think so. I think you could challenge the election. You could challenge it. You could say, I don't think it was fair. I don't think it. So here's why I don't think it was. This is why I think President Trump does not think it's fair. And a lot of supporters during COVID, right, the rules change in America dramatically on how you vote.

17:22And the Democrats were poised to exploit those rules. And listen, they were legal. They were legal. They were poised. They proposed most of these rules changes, right? Like the people in Georgia do now. Well, no, but I'm saying in Pennsylvania, in lots of states, they've changed the rules during COVID and took advantage of those rules and they played the game much better. And my point to Republicans is we need to play the game better, right? Don't howl at the moon. Learn how to play the game better. We need to vote by mail. Every time you hear Donald Trump say, I'm against early voting or voting by mail, I yank my the few nubs of my hair out of my head because we need to vote by mail We need to vote.

17:56That's what the rules are So the Democrats are much better. Listen Alistair in our country It is so whacked that we can't have a victor on election night. We'll be people on the moon We cured pediatric cancer. We do all these incredible things, right? We can't on election night tell you who won the election It's pathetic. That's partly because your system. It's a bizarre system Which is founded from a completely different age. It's crazy. So what happens in the state of Pennsylvania, where I'm from, there are 67 counties. Yeah. Each county has its own rules. There's not even one rule in Pennsylvania.

18:28So each county has, there's 67 different election laws in the state of Pennsylvania. There has to be a change in our system in the way we elect people. Well, listen, we definitely agree on that. Because Americans, and this would go a long way in terms of challenging Trump and things like this, right? Because voters go to bed on election night and they see Donald Trump's up by 10 million votes and they wake up the next morning and Donald Trump's losing by 20 million votes. That erodes confidence in the electoral system, right? Even if it's factual. But they don't believe it's factual because they don't understand it.

18:56Because they've been told by people like him not to believe anything. Because they don't trust our government. They don't trust the government anymore because of things like COVID. Because our government's told them things that, listen, if you don't take this vaccine, you'll die. Do this. Stay inside or you'll die. And now they know that was a bunch of malarkey. You won't die. It wasn't malarkey. It wasn't malarkey. To large extent, you're not going to die. People took the vaccine. You still got COVID, right? People didn't die. I mean, people died who had the vaccine. So there's trust. Listen, Alistair, the trust in American government has been so degraded.

19:25I get that. And so listen, on election night, in this building, Republicans and Democrats should get together and say, number one priority. They won't get together because it's so polarized. Number one priority. And he thrives on polarization. Number one priority is fixing the way we elect people, right? Because on election night, if you press a button, in the state of Florida, remember we had 2 ,000. It was Gore v. Bush in Florida, and that was the ground zero. And look at the difference in the way Al Gore dealt with that in terms of decency. He did decency. Right. Well, I guarantee if it was today, they'd fight a lot harder and it'd be different.

19:51Do you think so? I think it would be. I think it would be because it's a different day. That's 24 years ago. That's ancient history in politics, right? I mean, think about how decorum has changed, right? Gore is still younger than Trump. Yeah, well, I mean, he looks older, actually. Donald Trump, by the way, is incredibly, bizarrely vigorous. He's an incredibly vigorous guy. Hey, listen, you say that. Can I just suggest, I've been watching his recent appearances. I think since Joe Biden has announced he's not standing and Kamala Harris has come in, I think your guy is looking very, very defeated, lacking in energy, rambling even more than usual.

20:24I mean, look, that's your observation. I was with him again Saturday. I can only go off. How often do you see him? You know, unfortunately, not as much as I used to because I'm doing these kind of things, right? I work for a living now. I don't do politics completely all the time, right? I have jobs. I was with him on Saturday. I was going to be with him again this week, but then I had to come here. I will see him probably once a week now. Would you call him a friend? He doesn't strike me as having friends. I would say, you know, we're obviously friendly. He and I talked almost, you know, several times a week during his presidency.

20:48And I, you know, I got lots of pictures of he and I together. He says lots of nice things about me. So I would say we're friendly. I would, you know. Friendly. Friendly, yeah. I mean, look. Does he have friends? Oh, he's got tons of friends. But they're not. Real friends. More peers, I would say. They're more peers, yeah. I mean, yes. Yes, he's got a lot of real friends, actually. you know, mostly guys who golf, right? Who play golf with them that hit the ball around and they're friends, right? I've been in his presence when he's talked to other executives who are his friends, right? People whose names you would recognize, but I'm not at liberty to say who his friends are, but he's got real friends.

21:18And you know, his relationship with his wife, which I'm sure people are puzzled by, he and his wife have an incredible relationship. They laugh together. They are, I've been - Why do we never see this? Listen, on the speakerphone, I've been present when she's on the speaker and it's laughter. It is a great relationship. She's a very protective mother, protective spouse. She hates the game. Just like Michelle Obama hates the game. It's not her life. She married into it, right? She married into it. She could at least look like she likes the guy in public. Oh, she does like the guy. Your friend again, the Mooch.

21:49Yeah. He says that she hates him more than anyone on the planet. But you believe the Mooch and you don't believe me? Well, I've only just met you. But it is interesting. you've got a different way. So, for example, Stephanie Gresham. Yeah, I know Stephanie very well. She's a very nice person. Amazing speech, I saw. So, how come they can get to such a different position to you? You know what's incredible, Alistair? So, Stephanie especially, right? I've been around Stephanie a lot. I was already on the campaign in 2016. Stephanie joined. Very nice. She said yesterday or maybe the day before, her comments about Trump saying that his supporters are basement dwellers.

22:24Some negative. I can't remember the exact comment. Yeah, basement dwellers, yeah. Listen, I have been around Donald Trump more than Stephanie Grisham has been around Donald Trump in those settings. I mean, in 2016 and 2020, I probably did 30, 40 rallies with President Trump in and around Pennsylvania. You know, lots of lots of time with him and supporters. Never one negative. If anything, we're driving. I've ridden with him in the beast in the car. Right. And he'll say, look at all these people. Look, they're waiting for me here. I can't believe it. Right. I can't look at my supporters are so great.