Introducing... Legacy

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1:48So, everyone, it seems, leaves a legacy. Certainly many of the people we interview here on Leading will shake the world, I guess, for many future generations. Very proud of some of the people we've been interviewing recently, world leaders and others. So, here's a question. How have the biggest characters in history changed the way we live today? That is the subject of a new podcast called Legacy, which is a partnership between a goal hanger, who make our shows, and Wondery, another leading podcast producer. And it's hosted by broadcaster and journalist Afua Hirsch and my friend, the historian and author Peter Frankopan.

2:21And they'll be examining the legacies for a range of characters, including Mikhail Gorbachev, Cecil Rhodes, Pablo Picasso and Nina Simone. Their first series is all about Napoleon. And here's a clip from episode one.

2:38Napoleon, famous guy, big name, huge in France, all over the world. What do you think when you hear about the name Napoleon? I used to be a lawyer. And when I think of Napoleon, I think of Napoleonic code. when countries became independent from Europe, they often adopted the Napoleonic codes. Right, I thought when you said you'd be a lawyer, you thought maybe you'd sue him. But it's about the legacy of Napoleon as a lawmaker and administrator. No Battle of Waterloo. Nope, for me, he was this slightly vague figure with his arm tucked into his jacket and weird jokes about his height and the size of various other body parts that I never really understood their origin.

3:13Gosh, in the English education system, well, you have Battle of Hastings and then the Battle of Waterloo. You could do that for months. Well, he's clearly a character that is still very much in our popular culture. And now, Peter, we have a new Ridley Scott movie starring Joachim Phoenix. And it said more books written about him than anyone else. Yeah, I heard 300 ,000 books. Wow. More than about Jesus Christ or Mohammed. But look, either he's an enlightened despot or he's a great modernizer. He's a codifier of laws. He's a military hero. He's an enslaver. A lot of baggage. and maybe you could argue paved the way for all sorts of things that are slightly unexpected that we're going to talk about too.

3:52But let's try to figure this out. And for this, we're going to take you back in time to a crucial moment in Napoleon's life.

4:02The year is 1815. It's the 7th of March, just after six in the morning. We're in the Alps in the southeast of France. In the morning sun, snow-capped peaks loom over a column of men and horses as it moves along a narrow mountain pass. Hooves and boots stamp a steady rhythm, punctuated with the clatter of kits and arms on carts and bats. Napoleon's collar is turned up against the alpine chill. He breathes in the pine-scented air. There's nowhere he'd rather be. He's with his men. They're marching towards their destiny. They are few in number. Napoleon has commanded much greater forces, but they are his.

4:44He senses a change in pitch in the voices ahead, and the steady stamping of the men's feet slowing, then stopping, as word travels back through the ranks. Royalists. Some spit the word out with distaste. But there's fear too. Napoleon can always sense it. He breathes out slowly, straightens his back, and pushes through his men to the front of the column. No one says a word. He can hear a stream, snow-heavy branches creaking, and his own boots crunching on the path. Otherwise, silence. The royalist soldiers have formed a defensive position, some kneeling, some standing, their muskets are raised, and they are pointing at him.

5:29He thinks he sees some of them smile or snarl. He throws back his head, stretches out his arms, and roars, If you want to kill your emperor, here I am. And waits for the shots.

5:46So if you want to hear more from Afua and Peter, search Legacy Now wherever you get your podcasts, or you can binge entire seasons of Legacy ad-free on Amazon Music.