Legacy... Margaret Thatcher

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1:26New energy multiplier, sugar-free, hydrating energy. Tap the banner to learn more. Hello. Something a little different for you today. We wanted to let you know about another podcast from Goalhanger and our friends at Wondery called Legacy, which tells the wild stories of some of the most extraordinary men and women ever to have lived and ask whether they have the reputation they deserve. It's hosted by the brilliant Afua Hirsch and my friend Peter Frankapan. and the newest season is on Margaret Thatcher, which I guess, Alice, is a cue. I mean, looking back, what is your sense of Margaret Thatcher?

2:01You know, when we talk about legacy, very, very, very, very few political leaders have legacy in the way that that sort of grand word suggests, but she definitely does. I mean, Margaret Thatcher is still part of the political debate today. You know, when we interviewed Rachel Reeves on leading when she talked about running the economy like it was a household. That is a direct consequence of a framing of economic argument from Margaret Thatcher at the time that she was doing the whole kind of monetarism thing. I think she made substantial economic, political, social, cultural change. And as the legacy program makes clear, they're asking this question whether people have the reputation they deserve.

2:47But something like Thatcher, there's no such thing as a single reputation. There are some people who think that she was the greatest prime minister who ever lived, and there are other people. Will Hutton, for example, who I interviewed recently about his book, Will Hutton thinks that most of the social and economic problems we're dealing with today are a consequence of Thatcherism. So it's a very, very, very mixed picture. Yeah. And I guess she's in a time when we often feel a bit powerless. She is a real example of how you can bring change, for better or for worse, whatever you think, about Mrs.

3:19Thatcher. Boy, did she have a clear idea about what she was trying to do. She really aligned her cabinet behind it. Charles Moore's biography of her, I think, is quite interesting on this, that she was more cunning and more gradual with some of the things than perhaps we remember today. Her plans, for example, on coal mining and unions took longer to unravel. She did more stockpiling, more thoughtfulness. I mean, as well as being bold, she wasn't just breaking things. She was quite a kind of skillful political operator. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to what they make of all this. Yeah, yeah.

3:56I saw somebody posted on social media the other day an interview that Thatcher did with a – I think it was an Eastern European interviewer, or certainly from Europe, not a British interviewer. and the person said at the end of the interview, I have a thing in all my interviews. At the end of it, I asked my guest to jump up and down and Thatcher just looked at her straight out and said, what a ridiculous thing to suggest to me. And the woman then tried to persuade her to do it. And she said, by the way, she said, I've never heard anything as ridiculous as this in all my life. I will not be jumping up and down for the interview.

4:36And I was thinking like, you know, but Rishi Sudak would probably just go oh okay here we go little job he would because he did that famous thing with Piers Morgan didn't he where he started taking bets the bet well anyway looking forward to it very very very much so follow Legacy now wherever you listen to podcasts or binge entire seasons early and ad free on Wondery Plus Only Murders in the Building Season 5 The hit Hulu original is back The Night Bluster died He was talking with this mobster Was he killed in the hit? We need to go face to face with the mob. Get ready for a season. Buongiorno, signore!

5:11This is how I die. You can't refuse. You're gonna save the day like you always do by being smart, sharp, and almost always find mistake. The Hulu Original Series. Only Murders in the Building. Premieres September 9th. Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. New episodes Tuesdays.