The Democratization of Fashion | PLUS John Galliano Leaves Maison Margiela

0:06I'm Chloe Mal and you're listening to The Run Through and we have some familiar voices in the studio with us today. Welcome Willow Lindley, our fashion market and collaborations director and our fashion writer Hannah Jackson. And today we are digging into Hannah's terrific article on the democratization of fashion, Wednesday's digital cover story. And we were also joined by our lead fashion editor Jose Criales Unzueta, who you will hear later. But for now, let's talk a little bit about what is happening this week. because I just said to our intrepid head of social media, Sam Sussman, what was news for you this week?

0:44And she got extremely excited and said, what wasn't news? And she's not wrong. What a week. What a week. Big news, team. Big news. John Galliano has exited Margiela, Maisel Margiela, after a decade of incredible industry-shaking work at the brand. And after a particularly big year with a couture show that really rocked fashion in the best way possible and a show that I wish I had been at. And I am very happy for those that were because it was epic. It does really feel like he's living and breathing the leave when the party's good ethos. But who isn't moving around? I hope he's going to his own brand and I hope Glenn Martin's is going to Margiela.

1:29Ooh, that's fun. I don't want to, you know, out rumor the rumor mill, but that's, you know, that's what the fans here at Vogue are hoping for. We love that. We love Glenn Martins. Nicole wrote a fabulous piece that went live today when the news came out where Galeano walked Nicole through each of his incredible shows for Margiela starting with the 2015 debut show. And it was so much fun to revisit those shows through his eyes because each of them had such specific point of view as most of his collections always do. Do you guys have any favorite Galliano by Margiela shows? I mean, I think, you know, everyone loved the last Artisanal in Paris.

2:13But I also think the one coming out of the pandemic, fall 2022, was really beautiful. And it's very theatrical. There's a lot of tulle. There's a lot of dynamic shapes. It's that theatricality that we got with the 2024 artisanal show. But I think, you know, just in the context of coming out of isolation, I think it just hits a lot harder. And he did this incredible Pendleton collaboration. Those pieces were really standouts for me. And then going into the artisanal. But, you know, the unisex of it all, the collaboration of it all, the film, the drama, the theater. He's always just like one step ahead of everyone.

2:49And it's, you know, I can't wait to see what he does next because he's always leading. I like the collection. I think it was 2015 that was called like Woman in a Hurry or Dressing with Haste, which I felt was very sort of frazzled mom vibes. We also got news of a new creative director at Drees this week. It's very true. Julian Klausner, who was Drees' right hand for the Women's Wear collections. Kind of exciting that we're ending the year and going into a new year with some freshness, some newness. Hopefully we'll have something new from John. Hopefully we'll have – I think we're going to have some news next week.

3:27Fingers crossed. God willing. Or tomorrow. Oh. Although I don't know if Irene Kim can really handle the stress of more fashion news in one day. She was getting her eyelashes curled for a Vogue shopping shoot this morning when the Galeano news dropped and she leapt out of the chair, almost got her eye poked out by an eyelash curler and said, breaking news and ran upstairs. And that's what the newsroom looks like at Vogue. Everything you want it to be. Who needs the New York Times? Who needs a 24-hour newsroom like the New York Times when you have an eyelash curler? Speaking of Irene Kim, it is the end of an era for Taylor Swift.

4:08Irene is one of our key Swifties in the office. Irene, Kim, and Florence O 'Connor traveled to Miami for the Eras tour together when it came back to the States and wrote an excellent piece about one night at Eras. And it does feel sort of like a momentous cultural moment is coming to a close. Also, I can't believe that she made$2 billion. It's insane. What was it, two years total? Less than that, 18 months? Two years. Two years with breaks? Yeah. But yeah, a friend went with her daughters in Indianapolis, and she said it was astounding how it affected every single part of the city from the airport to every restaurant had a line outside.

4:48Every restaurant had special Taylor cocktails to brunch items. Every hotel had life-size cutouts of her. Like, it was just unanimous. It was what cities hope the Olympics will do and then don't always. I was just in Las Vegas for Formula One, and that's exactly what happens for Formula One. Taylor Swift is her own sporting event, is sort of what you're saying. She really is. Yeah. She doesn't even need Travis. And people go all over the place to see those shows, like cities they've never been to before. There was real Eras Tour tourism. Yes. Eras Tourism. Is there any other artist that could do that?

5:24No. Beyonce, I think. I don't think so. You don't even think so? I'm not sure. But I don't think she tries to reach that level of, like, ubiquity, I guess. I mean, she's not doing two-year-long chorus. Remember when she, like, changed the road and rail schedule in D.C.? That was epic. That was a big moment. Yeah. Speaking of Beyonce, did anyone see Blue Ivy Carter? Oh, Blue Ivy looking fabulous in her gold explosion Christian Siriano next to her mother. So grown up. Also looking like an Oscar. Had to Google her age, number one. Yeah, how old is she? She's like 12, I think. I think she's 12. This girl has sprouted up overnight.

5:59She was at the Mufasa premiere. Yes. And I loved seeing pictures of her this week at the Mufasa premiere, contrasted with five years ago at the Lion King premiere, where she was just a wee pup. I mean, she's still not ancient. From Simba to Mufasa. From Simba to Mufasa. So, yes, lots of family moments on the red carpet this year. Angelina Jolie and one of the many Jolie Pitts. I don't remember which one. A very chic group. Very chic group. Apple Martin and Gwyneth at the Ball des Debutantes. That was a big family moment for the Martins. Apple Martin made her debut at this quite old-fashioned but very glam debutante ball in Paris.

6:46That's all these young ladies wear couture dresses from different houses. and Apple Martin wore a custom couture Alessandro Michele Valentino, sort of ice blue dress. It was beautiful. She looked amazing. Beautiful. Alessandro Michele, very kind to the kids. To the Nepos. To the Nepos. Yeah. I mean, also did a great job with Scarlett White. White at Karen's wedding. Justice for Nepos. Raven Smith did just publish a piece about how Luigi Mangione, the suspected shooter in the UnitedHealthcare CEO case, has brought out the best of the worst of the internet. And I think it's definitely – I don't really know what the best of the worst means, but it's definitely brought out the worst of the internet.

7:37It's giving new meaning to communities. That's for sure. Yeah. People are fascinated by this young man. I think for a lot of reasons. We are a culture that is obsessed with consuming true crime, and we now have a real-life unfolding case. But it's all anyone can talk about in the office and out. Yeah, I don't know. I'm struggling with the Luigi stuff. It's just so sad. Yeah. You know, it seems like he had a lot going on. But, you know, I mean, I think it does speak to a lot of frustrations that people are feeling in this country about health care and inequality. The Gen Z are very interested in Luigi.

8:17Yeah, I think, like, there is a maybe well-intentioned interest but severely, like, misguided memery. I think Gen Z, some Gen Z finding him to be a thirst trap and people being righteously indignant about the state of the health care industry maybe aren't exact. Yeah, they're not quite overlapping. Yeah. But it is definitely dominating the conversation at the moment. I mean, I do feel like there's also always an interest in like this kid had it all. What went wrong? It wasn't like he – Yeah, it's like the Menendez brothers. Yeah, he came from a well-to-do Baltimore family, went to all the best schools, was valedictorian in high school, went to UPenn.

8:56My husband and I always joke that my mother would forgive a serial killer if they went to an Ivy League school or spoke multiple languages. And this really confirmed that. Also, Golden Globes noms came out this week. Any unexpected, I guess, Emilia Perez we all expect to be nominated, but it really swept. I think it was 13 nominations. Yeah, it led the nominations. Selena Gomez got two, right? One for Emilia Perez, one for Only Murders. My beloved. Chloe, the only person who watches Only Murders in the Building. Me and Lila Ramsey. Me and Lila Ramsey, only people in the building who watch Only Murders in the Building.

9:30Hannah did a piece that I love when we do this. I'm like, what did I do? On all the runway dresses we hope people wear during awards season. Yes, and one of them already came true. Which one? Monica Barbaro wore this beautiful black Armani Privé with cutouts and I think rhinestone details to the Complete Unknown premiere yesterday. Complete Unknown premiere. A lot of looks. A lot of looks. Elle Fanning with pigtails, like bejeweled pigtails. Yeah. Her hair looked great. Timmy with a tiny mustache. He was carrying a Beyblade, I think, which was like a toy that was popular. It was like a toy that was popular for like Gen Z growing up, but I'm very curious.

10:16Is it a knife? No, it's like a little like spinning top kind of thing. Oh, like a fidget spinner? Like the precursor to fidget spinners probably. I had no idea that was a thing. I'm just like, what are we doing here? Christmas is coming though. So let's drop the gift guide. Yeah. Timothy, please. Tell us about the toys. What else? Oh, we're feeling very festive at Vogue. We're doing a lot of holiday content. We photographed our favorite and most stylish tree sellers in New York. That piece went up. Very excited about that. And I loved your bag charms on trees. Ornament story. I do, too. So cute.

10:50CR did such a good job. CR Zatorski, our intrepid fashion editor, found amazing bag charms, and we dressed a tree in bag charms instead of bags. I'm obsessed. And now it's in Chloe's office. And now the tree's in my office. Yes. Chloe's office is very festive. Anna walked by on Friday and goes, it's very festive in here. Also, we should mention that in addition to Hannah's fabulous Democracy of Fashion story, Irina Alexander wrote a great profile of Zach Posen that I thought was really personal and juicy, but lovely and got into a lot of interesting points. And the Vogue shopping team did an amazing, affordable edit takeover of their site where everything in their posts is under$300 this week.

11:41And it – honestly, the market is so good, I wanted to buy a lot of it. And so I was very excited about that. That's the problem with some of these under$300 edits. You end up – they add up. They add up. Spending – They add up. Under$300 adds up to more than$300. Unfortunately, it's true. That's just math. Girl math.

12:03We wanted to remind everyone that we are doing an episode in the new year where we will answer any questions you may have for me and Choma. Choma, who sadly was not able to join us today. And feel free to send a question to our email or many questions. Doesn't have to be singular. TheRuntthrough at Vogue.com. or you can leave a comment on our episodes on Spotify or as a review on Apple Podcasts. We are so excited to hear from you and thank you to everyone who has already submitted. We will be back in a minute with a great conversation about Hannah's first cover story and the way we are redefining how we shop for fashion.

12:53You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at the New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

13:27And we're back. And now we are going to talk about Hannah's fabulous digital cover story on the democratization of fashion. As we approach the end of the year, we have been doing a lot of look backs. The best of fashion, the best of culture. We have also noticed a big shift in the way that consumers are seeking out fashion. And it felt like it really came to the fore in 2024. So it felt like there was this shift in terms of extremely high-end luxury fashion and then very mall fashion or high street fashion, as the British like to say. And I feel like there used to be more of a stigma around mall fashion and that it was like you didn't want to be walking the halls of Vogue wearing head-to-toe Gap.

14:18And now you do. Well, and more than that, that you didn't want to be wearing knockoffs of designer goods. And I think for me, that's the big shift that we're seeing. It's these pieces that are more affordable are more designed and considered. And that's a really important point because it's not instead of, but it's filling out a wardrobe that has highs and lows in terms of price point. And it's a proper alternative. I think to your point, it's about, you know, finding that excitement into the things that are perhaps not designer, but they still have the same amount of involvement or feel devoid in your closet in the similar or in the same way.

14:55So we started thinking about this a few months ago and did an amazing shoot that Camilla Nickerson styled. And Inez and Benud photographed it. And Hannah Jackson, right now to my right, our intrepid fashion writer and Gen Z mall brands. Extraordinary. Habitue. Wrote a fabulous piece about all of this called The Democratization of Fashion. It just came out yesterday. I really enjoyed reading Hannah's piece, and I loved that Hannah talked about getting her job at Vogue a year and a half ago and the Banana Republic dress that she bought for her first day. And I want to know what everyone wore to their first day at Vogue.

15:41Ooh. Love. That's a great question. I remember my interview with Anna outfit more than I remember my first day. It was a Suno dress. And Suno was a great brand. Mid-tier brand. Mid-tier brand in New York. And it was one of those things that I, you know, sort of pinched my pennies to buy. It was a great dress. It was blue. It had floral embroidery. I do. It doesn't fit, so it's under the bed. But it's okay. But yeah, it was a great dress. And I remember pulling it out for that special occasion and thinking like this dress is good juju. And it was at that point a very elevated price point for me, but something that was attainable, which I think a lot of super luxury fashion has lost any sense of attainability.

16:22I love that. You're so right. What I wore, I mean, it's almost been three years. I think when I was trying to figure out what to wear, I remember, and I was like, I just, I didn't know what, like, who I wanted to be. I changed, like, I look different every day. I try to at least. And I've always been obsessed with the idea of Tom Brown's uniforms. And I wanted to sort of, like, go into that vibe. I did not own any Tom Brown. I could certainly not afford any Tom Brown when I started. I still can't. But, you know, to that point, something that I was trying to figure out was like, oh, how can I, you know, do this, do the look for less?

16:56So I wore a black pleated skirt that I bought in Chinatown from like a store that like sells like school uniforms. So it's a black pleated skirt, a pair of Doc Martens Mary Janes and a Banana Republic cardigan. And the bottom down I'm wearing right now, actually. Hannah, you are in your Banana Republic dress. Can you describe it? Yes. I wore that for my interview, actually. It was a very pastoral white dress with kind of these ruffly sleeves and floral embroidery on the front. You know, I still have a lot of fondness for it. And I wore it on my first ever day of New York Fashion Week, which was also my second day ever in office.

17:41Not really through in the deep end. We do deep end well at Vogue. We do defend. And you know what? Thank God. Sharks are born swimming. I started the Tuesday before the Met. Oh, my God. No one told me all the things you're supposed to know about interviewing with Anna. So I wore a black DVF polo dress. It was extremely nerdy. It was actually my funeral dress. I would wear it to any family friend's funerals. And I was like, this seems perfect for Anna Wintour. Anna Wintour is famously not a huge fan of black. She likes a blue Suno dress more than an all-black dress that one wears for funerals. I did not know that 15 years ago.

18:18I did know. I got a call from HR. That's amazing. I'm screaming. Do you guys want to hear about how the democratization of fashion became a story in February? I do. It was kind of exciting. So the democratization of fashion idea that we came up with with the February issue was sort of in the lead up to the election. And it really came to be because I had gone on a trip to Sweden this summer to attend the 10-year anniversary of Totem. And Totem is a brand that is, again, in sort of that attainable luxury price point. And there's a lot of those Scandi brands, Gani, Totem, many of them that sort of occupy this great price point for many people like us, many working people in this world.

19:05and there was a conversation around that totem trip that happened during fashion week while I was also wearing this Koss sweater this black cashmere Koss sweater that Carla Martinez became obsessed with who's the head of Vogue Mexico and then Ricky DeSole who's the head of fashion at Nordstrom became obsessed with and at one point I was like leading tours to the Koss store in between shows to buy this cashmere sweater and it's a$350 again like not inexpensive but 100 % cashmere. It's got a great ribbed neck. I ended up getting it in a second color. And then it ended up in Lauren Sherman's either podcast or newsletter.

19:46And this sweater just went like gangbusters. That sort of was how this idea of the democratization of fashion was born, out of real shopping habits of real Vogue editors. And I think it's kind of nice to see a story come to life from real life. I love that. The other day, you know, for Vogue Business, actually, I also wrote a story for this week kind of related to this. I called it 2024 was a year of the dupe. And it's funny because it actually is, you know, spoiler alert. It wasn't about dupes, I think, you know, to something Willow was saying earlier is it's less about, you know, a lot of these brands, Banner Republic, Cost, Gap, etc.

20:22are replacing luxury of our closets, but affording us the possibility, quite literally affording us the possibility to dress up in the way we'd like for something we can afford for something that is in our hands. And Uniqlo was one of the real kickoff moments for, again, this idea because during Fashion Week, Claire Waite Keller, who is now the creative director of all of Uniqlo, not just doing capsule collections, came and brought the collection to New York for the first time since that appointment was made public. And it was pretty incredible to talk to her about her process working at Uniqlo.

20:56And she's got a design studio in London and she goes to Japan constantly. I think it's either once a month or once every two months. But how much she cares about all the products that she's working on and how she can do these capsules that are a little bit more design forward. But even down to a puffer jacket or a flannel shirt that she's working on. that, you know, she's very—she used to just be involved in those capsules, and Uniqlo used to be so famous for doing those designer collaborations, but now that they have someone that's sort of seeing more than just one capsule at a time. You interviewed her, right, Hannah?

21:29I did. I did talk to Claire Wake Keller, who was so— What was her great quote about having more influence? More influence. She feels like she has more influence at Uniqlo than she did, you know, at the helm of Chloe or Givenchy. She said, there was a dramatic shift for me in terms of where fashion was going. If anything, my impact as a designer is far greater here than anywhere else. Which I love because she obviously was personally designed Meghan Markle's wedding dress at Givenchy. So she's had influence before. Right. Like everyone knows her work, whether or not you know she's the person behind it.

22:04To create clothing that people can wear, not just see, is a huge step for a designer. How did you approach writing about this? Because I like that it's quite personal about your own discovery of mall brands and also fashion and how fashion can be accessible or cannot be accessible. But you also did a lot of reporting for this. So how did you decide who to speak to? Yeah, so this story is really about, like Jose mentioned, this middle market that we're in, this kind of overlooked gap in fashion. So for me, I think it was really interesting as a reporter to kind of investigate why people are coming back to that middle market.

22:45Like you have Claire Waite Keller, who has left these like French couturiers to go to Uniqlo. And then you have Zach Posen, who was just appointed at the Gap earlier this year as well. Meanwhile, you also have people like Christopher John Rogers or Glenn Martins is going to go do a collaboration with, you know, H &M. Christopher John Rogers did a collaboration with J.Crew earlier this year. And then you have the brands like Totem and the Frankie Shop and Coach that are kind of this more attainable luxury price point. So, you know, it was really interesting to kind of dive into those three facets and understand why designers are interested in going there right now.

23:29And then also, like, you know, for me to bring my own perspective as a young woman. How old are you, Hannah? I'm 26. I've actually never said my age in a story before, so this is a big moment for me. Big reveal. Solidified for all time. I'm 26.

23:49So to kind of talk about like my own experience, you know, moving across the country for this job, not really having money to, you know, dress how I thought a Vogue writer would dress and to kind of create my own wardrobe. And also just, you know, my understanding of, you know, financial security growing up kind of during the recession. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting and quite moving that you were saying that you were nine at the time of the Great Recession, which made me feel very old. But – and that your mom lost her job due to the recession and that your most beloved item or dreamed of item was Minnetonka moccasin boots.

24:31Oh, yeah. And that your mom really made it work to buy those for you. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's one of those things where the gravity of it doesn't hit you until you're so much older. Like now it has a lot more significance to me. Like I didn't really know that she was struggling until I was much older. Right now in movies, in the opera, even in pop music, divinely inspired women are everywhere. This week on Critics at Large, we make our case. Saints are having a moment. Look, I can spout off any number of cliches, but they're all true. The world is moving faster and faster. Materialism is now reaching every single corner of the globe.

25:11It's very hard to say no and to say stop and to say I will do without. And I think that explains some of the modern cultural appeal. I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Find us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

25:33What was your biggest takeaway from your conversation with different people that you spoke to? And did they change your opinion on this at all? I think, if anything, it really just solidified that there is this market that's really not being, you know, fully tapped into and that there is so much room to include people in fashion. and to, you know, I think there's also ways to do it where you can have the quality and you can have the reasonable price point. There are so many interesting quotes that really didn't make it into the final piece that really stick with me. Like, I think Willie Chavaria was like, you know, it honestly looks like kind of, it's kind of vulgar to be dressed like you're very wealthy.