321: Life hacks for the teenage years with Nicole Howes

0:03Hello, scumbags. This is the Scummy Mummies Podcast. with your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne.

0:16Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummies podcast. It's me, Helen Thorne. And it's me, Ellie Gibson. Ellie Gibson, we've got a guest today. It's the wonderful author, Nicole Howes. Hello. Hi. Hi, Nicole. Welcome to the podcast. Who are you, Nicole Howes? I am an author, mother of two, and I've recently written a book called Not a Survival Guide. Not a Survival Guide to life, zombie apocalypse. Well, it may as well be. It's about teenagers. Oh, yes. That is definitely like living for a zombie apocalypse. Oh, what inspired you, Nicole? Well, I actually, on a serious note, which I don't know if this is a place for it, but I actually felt really lonely when I got to teenage years.

1:01not for myself, but when I was bringing them up. And I felt like there was loads of support available with regards to baby groups, toddler groups, even the horrible dreaded WhatsApp groups that you get added to in primary school years. And actually when I got to the teenage years, I was like, oh God, I still don't know what I'm doing. And I'm not sure that anyone else does, but I also felt like I should have had it all sewn up. Like everything should be okay and done and dusted and I should be absolutely on point and I didn't feel like I was. Why do you think that is? I think there's a lot of shame around it, but I also think that there's a lot of narrative surrounding horrible teenagers and how awful they're going to be and how hard it's going to be and how easily you might mess them up or mess your relationship up with them at this stage.

1:51I just feel like there's so much pressure to be doing the right thing. yeah yeah yeah and I think especially during COVID and and lockdowns I think that was exacerbated in terms of all of a sudden because a lot of the time you don't see your teenagers and then suddenly they were there with you and their feelings and their world were very close to you and that I think that was a big game changer for a lot of people they didn't realize what their teenagers may have been going through but all of a sudden it was right there and their needs and what they need you know you know their needs and you know their social interactions and lots of stuff became very very important yeah I would agree with that and I think also there's such a pressure on phone usage at the moment as well which is kind of maybe distracting us from the point of how teenagers actually are and how good they are and I think as parents we spend a lot of time we feel like we're nagging them we feel like we are often kind of trying to drag them out of their rooms and make them listen to us and actually at this point we don't have the control that we've had so we kind of have to adapt to that as well and I think as a parent that can be a really hard thing to get through I know I I found it was a rude shock that I could no longer bribe my children with Haribo and or count to three that wasn't working anymore I picked them up yeah pick them up and put them somewhere where you want them to be and they will just kind of do that I remember pulling up to a it was a tutoring session for my son and saying right off you go then out you go and he was like no I was like what sorry what and then I was like well what do I do it was that moment where I was like wow I can't lift him he's bigger than I am I can't like hook him under my arm and take him into the session so then it had to become a different kind of conversation to what I'd had before yeah definitely I think that's yeah my both my children are taller than me now one's nearly 17 one's 14 and yeah they're big they could fucking they could well My daughter lifts me up all the time when I least expect it.

3:44I don't appreciate that listener as well. I find that a bit weird. But it is a big sort of transition and all of a sudden you're looking up to them but you're still looking a little bit down to them as well. Yeah, absolutely. And do you think, I mean, what are the big, you know, when you've been writing this book and researching the book, what do you think are the biggest fears around teenagers? I know we've touched on the phone thing but I think we are sort of, yeah, there is some, you know, myths and scaremongering that comes to us going, oh it's going to be awful and you think the toddler years are hard but these are worse.

4:15Yeah I think one of the main phrases is oh they're going to go off the rails. What are the rails? What are these rails that we're so intent on keeping our children on? I'm not sure I've ever been on the rails if I'm completely honest. I'm clinging on to one of the rails with a little finger at most of the time. But I'm sure the rails are a bit shit. Who wants to be on the rail? Like we don't as we get to adults and we get to the point where we kind of want to go off and explore our own things like the best adults i know are not on the rails so why are we so intent on keeping our teenagers in that kind of box and where are the rails going nicole death that's where there's only one route this this train is only stopping at one station for all of us and that's death yeah well that is a lovely sentiment yeah no problem you're welcome But my point being, just now I've dug this hole, let's continue with the metaphor and extending it far too far.

5:12Yes, if you just stay on the rails all the time, it's boring, isn't it? It's just a one-way straight line to death, isn't it? Yeah, and I think you can get so hooked up with keeping them in line and that you lose all the pleasure because teenagers are really fun. Like, I really love having teenagers for my sins, I guess, but it's good. they're passionate they're enthusiastic like they bring a new lease of life into the house which at our ages you start to be a bit like meh we're just heading towards death clearly um so it's nice to have that energy and i think we should kind of be encouraging that a bit more rather than trying to keep them in a box yes now one of the big questions that comes up time and time again is about communicating and talking to your kids because i think that's the often when you know when people are talking about their sons in particular, they go, I'll have a school today or, you know, tell me about you.

6:04And they're like, meh, meh, meh, fine. And, you know, we're all told that, you know, you should have good communication with your teenagers. Do you have any tips for the listeners about sort of trying to open up conversations? Yeah, I would keep your expectations really low. That's a good rule for life. I think so. That applies in many situations. Many humans. Yes, marriage, meals in pubs. uh and like that yeah everything really yeah yeah christmas is a good one to keep your expectations like holidays yeah no in all seriousness keep them low because if you expect too much of them you're going to be disappointed you're going to be frustrated so first of all keep your expectations low they don't need to give you a lot but you do just need to be turning up so there are a few things that i have found have worked quite well sitting side by side of them is a really basic rule um that can be in the car you probably notice you get good conversations in the car yeah when you're sitting watching television where there's something else it isn't just you bearing down on them and being like listen to me I want to talk with you like eye contact for teenagers is not the one like yeah don't really want that um I've I've heard the car a few times and I think that's good but I've found one recently um where my teenager were quite quite likes I think or at least he does it which implies that he does and if I'm I have to put laundry away at the end of the night like just in my bedroom and fold it and put it way and he'll come and lie on my bed and talk to me yeah while i'm doing that obviously he won't help me with the laundry no they're very tired yes expectations right yeah i but it's it means we're sort of chatting but i'm looking at the laundry and i'm looking at the wardrobe and i'm not i'm not sort of staring at him all the time like i'm an interrogator and he we both seem to find that sort of soothing isn't it because we watch a bit of telly together as well but to be honest when we watch it i'm like shh shh it's the it's the he's gonna propose we watch a lot of love is blind and I don't want anyone talking during that Nicole so I think that's been quite a game changer for me is finding an activity that not necessarily we can do together but that just there's another element going on that means we're not sitting staring at each other which like you say for some reason they can't seem to bear no 100 % I just think that when we don't take it as seriously like you do need to kind of try and create these situations as parents without them knowing that you're doing it but when we don't take it as seriously it's a lot easier to have a conversation and snacks like snacks help i think they're awesome yeah like just a plate of biscuits when they get in from school like ready and be like oh i'm just making a cup of tea do you want one like really casually like you're just playing the game all the time um but it works like they'll be like yeah all right i'll sit down because you've got biscuits great and you're making a cup of tea so you're kind of not looking at them and you can be like oh how had probably don't go with the how was your day actually because that's then like an imposing question like um what did you do that was good today that's a good one or what was a highlight give me a highlight of your day or a down point and actually they often will be like oh yeah actually i can tell you that i can access that easily yeah i have tried that the 10 year old is particularly bad at that though he'll go stuff i'll go okay what was what was the best thing that happened today and he'll go lunch or coming home now with you okay thanks biscuits thanks so much yeah it's it's tricky isn't it i think i find if you find this um my uh both my children actually but especially the eldest they like to i can ask them six or seven times if anything's up or how the day's gone or whatever um over the course of an evening and they will wait until i'm fully exhausted in pajamas putting face cream on, possibly even in bed or tucking them in to then want to have a 25-minute chat about something that's on their mind.

9:53And I'm going to be totally honest. I do it because obviously I'm an incredibly good person. Yes. But the struggle, the internal struggle is often real. Not to go, I just want to go to sleep and I'm so close. I'm so close. Why now? Why now? oh uh but you've got you've got to keep it in haven't you yeah you have but it is really hard and I think like in the book that's one thing that I was really keen to like say like this isn't easy like if you're playing a game of trying to have a conversation with a child that takes like your mental energy it's a hard thing to keep turning up and you have to you have to just keep being there you have to be present but it's so exhausting to keep being that person like I just want to get into bed now and now you're going to tell me that so-and-so did this to so-and-so and I just don't care about them I just don't care but I still have to be like oh okay yeah great is there is there any way to avoid that is there any way to extract it from them earlier in the evening I suppose I've never really I've never really said to my child look I find it really hard when you do that at the end of the night and I would say that to an adult you know I mean I'd say it to my husband and sometimes I do sometimes like he'll come in at you know 9 59 when I'm already in bed and go um so about that council tax bill and I just go no no talk to me in eight hours I'm not I'm not here for it now yeah um and then but then of course he's I'm a morning person so I'll wake up at 6 a.m going right about that council tax bill and also we need to talk about are we going to get a new barbecue and uh where did you do you get Charlie some more football shoes and then he just wants to stab me in the face.

11:30But anyway, that's another story. I was talking to someone else about this the other day, a friend of ours, and she was saying, she said to me, oh, yeah, I do that when I don't want sex. And I went, what? And she's like, let's call him Ian. She said, if I... That's actually my husband's name. Oh, is it? No, call him Ian, that's fine. Let's definitely call him Ian. So she said, if Ian starts, you know, giving me the look or being flirtatious, I just start going like, so we need to do the checklist, the Duke of Edinburgh trip. and uh by the way are you going to finish painting the shed and she said it just turns him off it just it just makes his penis deep late retract inside his body and i was like there's another good life hack for you but anyway i've gone off on a tangent unsurprised as usual no no no but that's all part of the rich you know tapestry of the family fabric and also that's a nighttime hack and that's what we're here for i've i've sometimes given my kids a 15 minute warning you say at 9 45 of like if you have any washing if you have anything to say to me if you've got anything you've got 15 minutes and then the shop is fucking closed i'm done don't come near me the door is closed i'm going to put on my boring running podcast and i'm going to fall asleep so at least it gives it in the window to go oh god i've got something to say and then i'm like done but if i don't say that then yes at 10 45 uh i will get mom you know i wanted to talk to about these sort of things and again you know you spend all this time wishing and hoping that they'll communicate with you and then like they're inconveniently doing a target doe house i think you're bang on with that actually with the break i think just giving them some heads up and a warning it does work really well um and that is the joy of them becoming teens as well because you can have those slightly more adult conversations and there is a bit of consideration both ways and if you are communicating how you feel like you said like actually this is exhausting me doing this i want to be here for you but i can't show up as the best version for you if you're doing it to me just before i go to bed then maybe you could kind of shift that for a little bit i like this i'm i'm let's go down the life hacks rabbit hole yes i want more teenage uh life hacks what do we do right here's here's my problem what do we do about the food oh my god they just eat they eat so much like that so expensive and yet you try and be like all right healthy i'll get grapes even though they're full of sugar whatever they will fucking eat a bunch of grapes like termites yeah they will eat it in one sitting yeah and like what what what do we do the worst bit of that is when they do that one week and then you buy extra grapes and no one eats a grape and you're like what is happening oh that's with bananas in our house they'll eat a bunch of bananas like they're fucking chimpanzees and then yet and then suddenly there's 18 very brown bananas bananas and i'm like let's make banana bread and everyone's like no fuck off no no exactly right i know that i think that's it is a similar thing to like the it's like the opposite the toddler is we like please eat you know i want you to try these new new foods and then now they're now now they like too much different and it's like is that is that buffalo mozzarella is this that like you're turning into a bastard it's um yeah it's a minefield uh yeah it's nickel it is um and i think you know um i know that you say in the book about having like getting to meal times how important it is to sit around the meal you know the dinner table and have those conversations but often i have and i'm guilty of this making three different meals is that bad i mean i from day one i was very anti that so for me i feel like i've done my work of the stress of not doing that early on when it did maybe cause us problems and now i feel like i am reaping the benefits of just everyone eats the same and i get served up and that's what yeah because i'm cooking it so fucking you're my hero i yeah i don't know man i tried it it works with one child and it didn't work with the second child One child eats basically anything, curry, sushi, it's fine, you know, a bit chilly, no problem.

15:32And the other one eats literally four things like pizza, sausages, gnocchi and pasta and meatballs. That is like, oh, ham sandwiches. That's right. Square ham, square ham. Oh, no, I think I was talking about this the other week. That has to be square ham. And now he's even narrowed it down. It can only be Tesco's wafer thin ham. He will not eat Aldi's or Lidl's, but he will not even eat like Sainsbury's or Waitrose. And he can fucking tell. What? He can fucking tell. I have put... The ham whisperer. I've just put the ham on the plate. I've hidden the packet. I've just served it up with no comment.

16:09And he'll go, nope, that is the wrong ham. I'm like, what? You're like a maitre d'. I hope you grew up to be like a wine export or something because your palate is amazing. For for sake. Yeah, what do you do about the food thing? I have to hide the crisps because they'll just eat four packets a day. Yeah, I mean, that's what you can do, hide the crisps. But I don't think there's a sensible hack for that. I think you just have to appreciate that this bit is really expensive and there's a lot of snacking. Fill them up on stuff that kind of does fill them up for longer. But I just haven't found the way through that at all.

16:46Yeah, one thing I do, and I don't even know if this is a life hack because it's not very good for you, is it? and it's probably not ideal, but there's these instant noodles. The brand I buy is called like Mie Goreng and they're absolutely amazing. They come in like a sort of red and greeny packet and I fucking love them. So I've realised you can buy them in bulk on Amazon very cheaply and they take literally three minutes to cook and you don't have to measure the water. You just cook the noodles in the water and then there's these four little packets of deliciousness and you just drain the noodles and you chuck the stuff in.

17:18so they take lips so even my teenager can manage to do that now is that better for him than crisps probably not it's loads of salt probably msg carbohydrate but at least it's sort of hot food and they're doing something as well he's cooking it yeah so i feel slightly better about it and you know especially for that thing where they've already had three meals that day and yeah and you're like i can't give you another packet of crisps and you've eaten all the grapes and all the apples like fuck it i think it's fine yeah i think it is i think there is a again that's another thing there's so much pressure on is this ultra processed food narrative which is really great really sensible but it's really expensive and you can't keep that going with children that don't want to eat certain foods it's impossible to keep on that it's hard you just have to do what you can do you have to get through it and yeah it's just about getting through yeah these years in that sense and not thinking too deeply into it because you can drive yourself mad like can i do this can i do that is it too much salt is it too much sugar oh no i'm damaging them like this is the stuff that we need to just the mum shame the parent shame we just need to shelve that yeah in an ideal world if my son was hungry he would go and boil himself some brown rice and chop up some kale but he's not going to do that and to be quite honest if it's half nine at night i'm not either i'm too tired uh can't be fucked so you know go on eight years Soylent Green or wherever it is, you'll be absolutely fine.

18:48One of the things that I really loved in your book was that teens are not people to be moulded, but people to be unfolded. And I really love that quote. So Jess Lear quotes. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that I think is sometimes a bit of a rude shock. Generally in parenting, it's like, what? You're not like me and you don't like all the same things as me? But I'm going to show you the best things, the best music, again, the best food. and I think that can be a little jarring because you're like or you show them the film, like you get that overexcited and you're like, this is the film I love.

19:22You will like this. And they're like, this is shit and boring and it's too long. You're like, what's wrong with you? And so do we visit those films and you're like, oh, God, it is a bit shit. Or really racist and terribly misogynistic. But I was going to ask you, I guess, to expand on that kind of theory um theory because i think sometimes yeah your teens will surprise you about what they like and you know you hope you have the shared values i think that's for me the most important things about how you treat people how you love you know all those things but then yeah then they'll go off and like stuff you're like why yeah stuff and people as well oh god thing to manage so um i guess they're like a little hot pot of their own mix aren't they and i think we expect that they like you said they'll be mostly us or mostly their dad or whatever the situation is but they're just not they're kind of an amalgamation of all the things that have happened to them along the way and all the things that are still going to be there for them and actually if they were a little carbon copy of you you've become probably a bit bored of them at least they're bringing something else to the table yeah like a little bit more vibrancy and yeah it is a challenge but i just I disagree.

20:34I disagree. You want them to be exactly the same. I'm excellent. I want someone who wants to... I need a clone. I want someone who just wants to drink Whispering Angel and watch Love is Blind and also puts the toilet seat down after they've used the toilet. Do you not have each other for that, though? Sorry, me and Pete? No, you and Helen. Will you watch Love is Blind with your partner? Yes, me and Albro are obsessed. Okay. Yeah. And what's really good is I like it because Ellie usually watches everything first and then I'll be texting her going, oh, this guy, this guy. And she goes, Jessie Wade, Jessie Wade.

21:06It's so hard not to do spoilers. But I love, but your eyebrows tell the whole story. Well, I go, oh, this person, and you go, mm-hmm. Very, very difficult sometimes. No, you're right. I'm being silly, of course. I'm being, I'm being, it's one of the best things about having teens, isn't it? We're moaning about the food and all that. But one of the best things is that they are interesting and they have their own interests and likes and dislikes. and yeah that it's they have a different perspective on the world but yes let's not show your quote it that's really hard when they don't want to do what you want to do and they don't behave if they start to turn into someone you're not expecting them to become i think that's when it's hardest and then when you see them maybe fall in with a slightly um different kind of group of people and they will be so influenced by their peers that's why you have to kind of keep turning up they actually physically want to push you away it's like a tribal thing so they want to push you away they're meant to think that you're stupid so you spend a lot of time fighting against them just thinking that you are stupid and they don't want to listen to you so the fact that you're doing that and then they are influenced by their peers and other outside factors like social media and other elements the press at the moment a lot of that is what makes them become who they are which is why you have to stay constantly showing up and yeah you do need to listen to them just before they want to go to bed and all of that stuff because if you don't they will just become a version that you don't recognize and how how do you do if they are hanging out with people that you're not sure about for whatever reason what i mean is there anything you can do i think you just have to have conversations about those um moral elements of your upbringing that you've already given them so you've already done a lot of the hard work right you've already brought them up in a way that you are happy that you've given them the right perspective on other people and how to treat other people and how to behave and i think a lot of it you just have to have faith that they will ride out on that and they'll come through that but all you can do is keep again the rails is that just the general just nudging them in the right direction keeping them like they'll wander off a little bit to the left so you tap them back and they wander off a bit to the right and you tap them back it's just about it's not about grabbing them sticking them back on the route they need to be on but it's about just gently reminding oh do you remember this or do you remember that i will give you a hack that's quite a good one though if you want to oh all of the hacks more hacks so please all hacks all the time hack me hack it up hack me house hack me house i quite like it this is um one of my favorite ones so it's about if you've noticed that they're doing something that you don't like and you think that they're going to just shy away from you or disregard you or just be angry if you address it.

23:56It's really useful to take that thing that's happening and put it into the words of someone else. So say they were caught shoplifting, you would probably have a conversation with them about it, but the chances are they go, oh, it wasn't me, it's my friend and this happened and that happened and whatever was going on. Rather than even fully addressing it, obviously you would address it if it was shoplifting, this is quite a big deal um but you would then take that story and put it into the words of someone else so oh so-and-so at work the other day they actually pinched something from work and then as a result this happened to them and then they ended up with a sack and it's awful and so you're having that conversation but not with them so you have that conversation with a partner or a friend while they're in earshot so children are really smart they will listen they like to listen into conversations that you don't want them in so make one up oh my god conversation about something that's happened that's a reflection of their behavior maybe not quite on the nose you know just give them a kind of a sense of it so that they have that moment where they're oh god that sounds like me could that be me did i is that how i can live i like this yeah so it's a sneaky one but it works really well because it's like an indirect um reference to what they're feeling or how they're behaving without any judgment without them having to confront you without them having to have that conversation there's no like um there's no pressure you're just having that conversation and you're you're playing out how that scenario could end up for them without you going do you know what will happen if you do this you'll end up going down this route they're never going to listen they'll just switch off from that yeah and it's like you're allowing them to solve a riddle yeah and they like that um i was going to ask you about drinking drugs oh yeah have you got any yes I honestly um yeah I think that is something obviously we we love what so good have you tried a triple mango vape honestly it's like a dessert anyway um no about about some talking about it because I think because curiously they want to know whether you've done all that shit yeah as well and that can be because it's always that thing about do as I say not as I do um um approach to the children.

26:05I think my children have been pretty good about having those conversations. But things like weed gummies and other sort of drugs are very readily available, especially if you live in London town. It's Biden at school, apparently. And how do you start a conversation without sounding like a big old dork to your kids and so they'll listen? With things like that, I often find TV is a really good in. If your children aren't happy to have a conversation with you directly to watch something together that pushes the boundaries of those um subjects so drink drunk sex whatever it is that's actually a really good way to have a conversation with them to lead them into certain scenes and be like oh do you have anyone at school that does that like adolescence was really good we watched adolescence as a family and that i pre-watched it but then i watched it with them but we don't shy away from any conversations so they don't ever end up being like a big like i need to sit you down and talk to you about this it will just be like things that happen in passing i'll look at them or have you seen this or have you noticed like is weed like in your school is that a thing do any of your friends do it like you can just have general conversations with zero judgment it's always the key but you're right they do often want to know what you've done and where your limits are so you have to be prepared you have i think you have to be prepared to know where you're going with that it's a personal choice whether or not you open up to that with them um but you have to know where you're going with it before they ask a question.

27:31You have to preempt it. Yeah, yeah. I have been really open and I've said to, you know, especially my daughter because she's turning 17 in a couple of weeks, I was like, look, I know there's weed around. I know there's other things around, you know, just be really sensible if you can. And also don't mix weed and, yes, booze because I said I did that and I pissed myself at a party and then threw up in a taxi and it's the worst night, biggest regret of my life. And marrying your father, but, you know. but not having you. Which night was that? The night I pissed all over the chair and then threw up in the cab.

28:04Which one? Which one? The one when both those things happened. You know when we went to Patsy Annabelle's house? Ah. That was awful. Oh, I thought that was just sweat. I didn't realise you'd actually pissed yourself. No, I pissed myself on Annabelle's chair. Oh, I thought that was just sweat. Oh, no, no. I literally weed all over her fabric, nice fancy chair. And then had to take off. I was wearing a very tight denim jumpsuit. Again, teens, don't do that. Don't. Drank a lot of fizzy wine and laughed. And then my bladder went, hello. It just leaked all over. Yeah, so I know, like, that's really gross.

28:39I'm like, you're welcome, kids. But it's a life lesson, right? And you've learned it, so you may as well share that with them. But I do feel like when you say, the thing you said about, like, opening up to them, it's just, oh, sorry, I've forgotten where I was going with it now. Sorry, you're physically repulsed by my... I was just thinking about you wee-in on that chair. Yeah. It just like popped into my head. Yeah, it was. Oh, no, great. I know. What I was going to say is you can't afford to be an ostrich in this situation. So I think a lot of people will be like, don't do weed, don't do drink, the end.

29:08Like, that's not enough. You have to consider that they are going to be in a situation where they're going to be offered it. They're going to want to try it. They're curious. So don't be an idiot and just go, oh, yeah, just don't drink, guys. That's never going to wash. so yeah giving them rules of like okay if you are ever in this situation don't mix like that's a no-no they're my absolute boundaries with this situation because it keeps you safer but i think a lot of it you have to kind of pick your battles because you are gonna be curious we all were weren't we still no and i think yeah like my daughter went to a party the night and she said so many of the girls arrived already drunk and then there was about three or four girls who were spewing by about nine o 'clock and she's like none of them had a good time and then all the friends were looking after them and she sort of went oh I don't I want to me that and then she ended up hanging out with the parents and drinking their champagne and playing records I was like that's great yeah this there seems to be sort of two narratives going on though that one is that teenagers these days are actually certainly smoking but also drinking and taking less drugs than we were at a similar age and then there's this other narrative that like you say Helen people are going to parties and vomiting so is it are both things true how I mean how do we know yeah I think there's a real divide actually I think from what I've seen um and what I've learned through the process of this research is that there is quite a big divide between it um but I do think it's more acceptable for them not to drink now I think kind of binge generation that I was yeah I think if you didn't drink you would be really goaded really shamed and made to feel stupid in a light way or whatever the situation was whereas now actually i do think there is more of because there is more of a divide there is the potential for them to try either option like they can either be the one that is getting absolutely shit-faced or they can be the one that's like actually i don't drink because i'm trying to keep clean like there's those two elements to it and sexy time they're delaying sex more apparently so yeah they're holding back aren't we all yeah i couldn't wait to get involved in bold i couldn't wait to have sex i was very excited but my mum and dad uh you know my dad the vicar my mum you know was the vicar's wife mum was just like don't have sex and i went to a catholic school and they're like don't have sex until you're married and then i was like that's exactly what i want to do i really want to have sex yeah see my parents were like uh whatever teenager's gonna teenager you know we they were together six years or something before they got i mean my mum was pregnant with me when they got married so i think they had had sex yeah probably with each other um so they were like whatever so i waited till i was 18 so obviously that's anecdotal that's not that i think we've solved that issue yeah it's interesting isn't it yeah yeah because it was and the same with like booze that my mum never she never got drunk she the most she ever had in one night would be one like one two glasses of wine very occasionally uh and then i was like well i wanted to drink so much so it is that sort of reaction as well um but yeah i'm glad that you know i like when i go out now with with the older teen i'm like yeah you can have you can have a glass of wine or you can have a cocktail i don't want to demonize it like it was for me because then it was like oh i've got to have that it felt more sort of naughty to go and have a drink and also i grew up in rural Australia where there's nothing else to do but neck a bit of bourbon yeah I mean I think it's less accessible for them to get hold of it now and it's um expensive so I think that's probably quite off-putting it's not like white lightning days I don't know if anyone else was on that but um that was my you bottle of bottle of strongbow that you spewed out your nose yeah we have this thing called k was it k cider that came in the black bottles that was a big thing but there's a bit in our show where i just say the words archers and lemonade and unfailingly wherever we are in britain everyone goes oh people throw their hands in the air it has such an effect when you go and i like that you go you just take a little deep breath you go archers and lemonade and it just like it sets off a bomb in the room it's amazing and about a year or two ago i bought some archers i was i think it was summer and i was in the supermarket and i was feeling jolly and And it is a special offer.

33:23And I was like, I used to really like Archer's. I like peaches. Me and Jessie used to drink that all the time. I'm going to get a bottle of Archer's and have it with some lemonade. And I got home and made it and had one sip and was like, wow. It's just like eating a liquid bag of sugar. I was just like, this is so sweet. How did I fucking keep this down? Oh, brah. I know. What was that? What was when you put like squash in a beer? What was that called? oh like a shandy yeah a snake pie yeah that's what i used to have i used to have like because i couldn't i couldn't i was too much of a soft cock with straight beer so i always used to get a shot of like black currant squash in it i was like i'm having beer but i really wasn't it's probably a bit like your yeah terrible um finally i wanted to ask you about sleep because my kids of bastards they can sleep for like with the window open and the blinds up for like 14 hours cannot shake them should i wake them up i mean obviously if they need to go to school and or an event but no i always just think let them lie like they need it the brains are developing really quick so um there's a lot going on mentally and physically with growth and that's where sleep is really important what is annoying is that their circadian rhythm changes so it'll get out of sync with ours so like when you were saying about conversations in the evenings a lot of that comes from the fact that their um patterns their sleep patterns have shifted up into like a later time than ours yeah their melatonin is delayed so what we need to sleep is not released physically into their bodies until later in the day so for them like one in the morning is like a good time to go to sleep which is frustrating because you're like just go to bed oh my god that's the time my team went to bed last night she had a really deep conversation with me at 12 30 about something really dark and really sad I was like wow I had had four Prosecco so I was very wise yes yes yes and then I passed out um it's such again it's such a weird thing to navigate so last night you know I was streaming on the twitch and I got up to go get a cup of tea at half 10 and Charlie was just stood up in the kitchen looking at his phone and Pete was upstairs working and I was like Charlie hey, like, are you not going to, you should be in bed.

35:44And he was like, oh, well, no one's said that sort of thing. And I went back on the stream and one of my viewers was saying, this is a weird thing. They will not go to bed unless you tell them to. So they're at this weird stage where they're sort of moving into adulthood and they're making their own decisions, but you can't actually trust them to be responsible and make good choices. And it's so mad, isn't it? And I've played that across all of these years. Like, that is exactly the mantra to take. Like, I can't necessarily trust you to make good decisions because we're, they're like, the front of their brain isn't fully developed.

36:18So we are literally their decision maker. Yeah. But also they are becoming more like adults and they get more freedom. So it's that juxtaposition of those two worlds colliding. Transition is hard, though. Yeah. Yeah, because some days they do. Like, I came home last night and my daughter would clean the kitchen, which was sensational. And then, yeah, other times, yeah, really stupid and inconsiderate stuff. So it's a bit of a gamble. You don't know what kind of you're going to get. But I will overall say I'm going to love my teenagers. I think this has been my absolute favourite stage of parenthood because I just, you know, they're my buddies.

36:57I love going on a holiday with them. They're really good fun. I love the conversations. I love who they're becoming. And it's great. but um yeah it's not that it's not hard yeah and as we said you don't get right to sleep and all the things and I guess especially for women our age we're going through perimenopause and menopause at the same time there's a whole lot of fucking hormones in the house and that's quite an explosive thing yeah for sure it is really hard but I agree like teenagers are great and that this journey that I've been on with the book and kind of like reaching out and speaking to other people I'm hearing that narrative more and more like people do genuinely love their teenagers that's why they want to make good decisions that's why they do like hanging out with them like they are fun um but that's kind of the narrative i want to be able to i want more people to hear that because i feel like you can feel totally lost and like you're on your own with it and because it is hard so yeah amazing yeah right awesome well now we've um now we've you know ended on a positive note let's bring things down again with some scummy mummy confessions excellent helen do you want to go first i'll go first i thought i should start with a teen related one yeah um and i don't want to i've got two teens in the house and i won't i won't name who it was so one of my teens um i i use it what's called a derma blade which is another word for lady face shaver just to get rid of the peach fuzz that has appeared of the gandalf beard i've grown since perimenopause and i just use it for a light shave.

38:25But I heard one of my teens saying that they had shaved their nether regions. We'll said Dermablade and that made me feel a bit sick, but I don't know when or what order that came in, whether it's my upstairs and they're downstairs. I mean, they probably rinsed it. They probably didn't. They probably didn't. There were no visible pews. Okay. But it's still, you know, it's like when someone uses your toothbrush that you don't like. I mean, anyway, yeah. Half of me is like, oh, you've got the same genes. And half of me is like, no, that's disgusting. It's kind of gross. It's very conflicted. Yes, yes, yes.

39:02I know. I don't think I'm going to die of anything, but it's not what I wanted. No. Like you wouldn't balk at using the same scissors to cut hair, would you? The hair on your head, the hair. But is pubic hair different? It is. It is. I thought for the day there, listener. not hair or not all hair is equal if he or she had shaved their other areas um i think i'd feel less gross about it but yeah what about armpits in between literally physically what about if it was armpits i think that's for 55th that is still a bit gross it is yeah nicole where do you stand on this hot button topic i maybe it depends on how close the shave was uh wait what huh that's a very contact maybe you may yeah i don't know or if it was in a clean or how clean the skin was yeah was it just a dry shave this is it i'm i mean i'm arguing you could because you can wash the razor in the same way you can wash a pair of scissors yeah rinse you do a little rincy rincy yeah so maybe that's okay but it's the knowledge it's the knowledge yeah and not knowing wouldn't what did juliette sears said uh what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve so they told you about it yes in a sort of i've done this terrible thing mum it's weighing on my conscience or i've done this thing it's going to annoy you and i'm going to enjoy that or what was the thing i don't think there was a thing it's like i've shaved my uh and it didn't hurt and i was like but what did you use that with and i was like that's my face shaver so it was not an intention to use my thing for their thing but now i think intention would have been way worse and weirder no no no no no no that's something yes yes and that's the that's the that's the core of this you accidentally share or will not purposefully shaving your nethers uh you know each to their own um but using something that doesn't belong to you not great excellent well i'm glad we've nutted that out i feel i feel better for it thank you to the bottom of it that's cool nicole do you have a confession you'd like to share i was thinking about this and i think i've got one from way back when my son was tiny can i do that one is that okay yeah absolutely but your body your choice okay right well it was his body actually that was the issue but i'll tell you about it so um my son was around eight months old we were on a holiday i was a bit frazzled because i'd managed to get a baby on holiday and he was my firstborn so you know it's a lot isn't it a lot of planning a lot of whatever so i was having time to just relax i was sitting in the pool and every day this same woman used to come over and just she loved him like she loved my son so much she just wanted to be close to him she wanted to chat about him how cute he was all of that stuff fine I didn't really want it because I was on holiday and I just didn't need anyone else in my mental space right yeah so one day maybe day three I see her she's sitting like she's coming towards me in the pool and I intentionally start to get out of the pool and I don't move quick enough for one reason or another so she starts chatting to him i'm like half in the pool half out he's kind of like a little bit dangling still in the pool to keep him cool he's in like a water nappy they don't work because she's talking and i'm seeing like this seepage starting to come out the back of the nappy i'm not in the pool she doesn't stop talking so i'm like yeah yeah yeah and she's still like oh and she's grabbing at his little cheeks like putting his legs and i'm Literally like, okay, I need to go now.

42:33I need to go. But I didn't tell her. I just took him out of the pool. I'm really bad about it. But it was only like a little bit of seepage. There was no lumps. Just minor seepage. Is that okay? Time in. People piss in the pool all the time. This is definitely poo. Okay. But percentage-wise, anyway. I feel like the chlorine when I sorted it out. I was like, that wasn't enough. You would have known if someone had died. Yeah. Yeah. By now I would. I think it's okay. If the pool was very big, the, you know. It was very big, but she was quite close. So if I'm honest, it was gross. But what I like, oh, yeah.

43:06Needs must. Needs must. Young mum, you know. Survival mode. I had to just get him out. Self-compassion, Cole. Self-compassion. Ellie, have you got any shaving or shit related stories to share? No shaving or shit. I've had quite a dull time recently, really. I've blown up my food processor. There you go. No! Yeah. I love that food processor. I know. So many meals have been made. And it was human error as well. So I had one of these Kenwood multi-pro things that does everything. Again, this is a fascinating anecdote. The less than I can already tell. And we had a little Oktoberfest dinner thing.

43:39And I decided to make pretzels because that's the kind of wanky, smug thing I like to do when I'm having people around to show off. And I've made pretzels before. It's actually very easy. It was fun. But I'm also very lazy. So what I thought I did is I make the dough in the food processor like I did last time. I thought last time everyone loved the prepsals and they ate them really quickly so I'll make double the amount but and then I thought and I had the thought two batches will it be all right if we're just I hate doing things in batches if it's such a duplication of effort so I'll just I'll just shove it I'll just throw twice the amount of shit in the food mixer it'll be fine was it fine Helen no no it was not fine Kit Wood did not like it it's it appeared to be fine I put the dough hook in i put the stuff in and it sort of whisked it all into a dough and then like the recipe said leave it in the machine for like three minutes so i left it running and then it just stopped it just stopped and i turned and i smelled something it's my sort of burny smell and i i unplugged it and i tipped the food processor on its side and smoke was coming out of the bottom no no no no so it's gone to heaven yes it's it's died and i tried all the things i even tried ringing like i rang like a kenwood fixer company i was like can you fix my kenwood and they're like no we only fix industrial machines yeah and then i wrote to kenwood and was like i i know it's not under warranty but i need to and they have just ignored me so in the end Pete was just like you dickheads just give up buy a different food processor so I've bought one and I have bought a magic mix um they're very good I've had mine for 15 years and they're not let me down yeah and they do have a dough hook very strong one and well they've got more powerful motor so the chances of me Pete was like it's it's an investment like he because I think he reminds me I think I did blow up a previous Kenwood although I can't remember but anyway he was like just fucking oh he said i said i'll pay for it because i broke it and he said no i'll go hard with you get the fucking expensive one and then we can we never have to have this conversation ever again so not the most fascinating or funny story everyone's told but that's my confession i broke some expensive machinery through laziness not even human error just laziness but did you have pretzels yeah they're fucking great awesome had to need them by hand though it took eight minutes fuck me exhausting wow what a cavalcade of confessions so many things shaving shit and pretzels yeah right a fascinating a fascinating carousel for you there listener thank you so much for listening it's like a german porn film what's that shaving shit pretzels yes sings like a normal day in helga and adol's house but then boris anyway uh But tell us about your book.

46:43Where can people, what is it called and where can people buy it, Nicole? It's called Not a Survival Guide and you can find it virtually anywhere. So the big shops, Waterstones, Amazon, but also Independence will be able to order it in for you, which I prefer if people can do that. That's great. Amazing. Excellent. Excellent. Sorry. Now we've got some things to hawk, haven't we, Helen? We do. We're on tour, Ellie. Yes, we are. All the time. All the time until the end of 2026. Yes. And we've just put up the new dates for 2026. which I'm very excited about. But before then, we're doing shows in places like Bath, aren't we?

47:15Yes, we're going to Bath. We're going to Catford. Catford is going to sell out, I think. Yeah, yeah. There's only like the last four or five rows. Yeah. Chipping Norton, that's nearly gone. Yes, Maidstone's nearly gone. I want to say Chelmsford. I always get the mix. Chelmsford. We're doing the Christmas shows there. Chelmsford. And Guildford. Guildford. And tickets for January and beyond are available. Rotherham, for example. Yeah, and they make excellent Christmas presents, the old tickets. Yeah, it's a great idea. And we're going back to some of our, you know, big favourites like Winchester were doing two nights and I think Hertford at the beam, three nights.

47:50And if you want to buy someone tickets, look, I'm just going to say this, Helen, as a marketing idea, I'm going to say it on the podcast. Yeah. And then if you disagree with it, we can just cut it out. If you buy tickets for someone for a Christmas present and you message us, we'd be happy to do a video message and send it to you on the WhatsApp telling someone that they're coming to see our show. yes how about that yes let's let's say that i think only three people max will take us up on that offer so i think it's minimum effort yeah so if you bought the tickets um yeah but we need to see proof of purchase yes exactly we're not a charity or prostitutes for free um yeah i think that's a stellar idea why don't we do that i think that's a great idea yeah all right good so i'll leave that in yeah and also why don't we just have a day we say right you have to do it by this date You and I just get all the Christmas food that we want and just sit down and make videos for people.

48:42I mean, I literally think it's going to be peak three videos, but sure, it's a good excuse to get a lot of food. Yeah, yeah, let's do that. Let's go M &S, picky bits and yum. Oh, well, thank you. I hope you've enjoyed being part of our marketing meeting. Thank you so much, Nicole, for coming on the podcast. You're very welcome. Thanks for having me. Until next time. Bye. Bye.

49:11Do you remember when someone bought something in the shop and now I never buys anything in the shop? So I did a little video. I played them a song on a keyboard. And I think on the back of that, two more people bought something from the shop. So three is the number. I'm based on my market research. Empirically, three is the number. Good. Well, let's clear the calendar.