322: Athletics, book writing and a disappointing pole vaulter with Emily Murray (aka @pinkhouseliving)

0:03Hello scumbags, this is the Scummy Mummies Podcast. with your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne.

0:16Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummies Podcast. It's me, Helen Thorne. And it's me, Ellie Gibson. Ellie, I'm very excited. What a shocking turn of events. So unlike me to have this unbridled enthusiasm. Well, I'm very excited because we've got a returning guest and you know, I love when guests come back. That means they like us, Ellie. And you know I like to be liked. Right. Glad it's not the saying that it's true of ex-husband. No, thank you. Anyway, enough of him. I'm very excited because we have the wonderful, fabulous Emily Murray back. Hello. Hello. A.K.A. Pink House Lady. Yes, Pink Lady, I think you dubbed me at some point.

0:52Or Emily Pink. Emily Pink. That's how you're in my phone as Emily Pink. You know my friend Emily Pink. Yeah. Everyone knows me as Emily Pink, yeah. But you are Pink House Living on Instagram. I am still. been for yeah we've been for a few years now is your hanging on yes is your house still pink at the moment it is covered in dust and renovation incidents always relaxing yep um but the bits that are not covered in dust are mainly pink okay although not as pink as i would like it to be um i wish the kitchen was pinker so i have plans there's this wallpaper i want to put up and i want to do the cupboards and all that stuff obviously my husband is delighted at the prospect so because Because I know that your kitchen has a controversial history, Emily.

1:37Oh, does it? Oh, I know. Because your kitchen, correct me if I'm wrong, does not have, brace yourself, listener, does not have an extractor fan. That is actually true. And I knew you were going to say that. And actually, it came up again. My husband mentioned it only last week because he was cooking, as he does. I don't. Hence, no extractor fan. And he was complaining about the fact that it stank of whatever he was cooking. and I said, maybe we can find some sort of brass thing that fits in the ceiling and it sucks everything up. But then I did nothing about it. Yeah, that's a lot of my attitude, a lot of problems that my husband raises.

2:14Yeah, so when I did my kitchen, I put in a quite small turn-off and onable extractor fan because I thought, if Emily Pink can live like this, so can I. And do you know what? I never fucking turn it on. I don't even bother. Yeah. No one cares. Open a window if it's a bit smelly. Exactly. That's my general rule for life. So there you go. There you go, listener. You've already, we've already shared some information. You don't need, you don't need an extractor fan. Don't listen to what the government says or the local council regulations are. No. Just, you know, hack a hole in your wall with a hammer if you're that bothered.

2:46Right. Excellent. Don't cook smelly food. Yes. Grow up. Microwave everything. Deliveroo. I know we've got off to a fascinating and dramatic start. Extractor fan chat. But let's introduce, Why don't you introduce yourself properly, Emily? How do you like to be described these days? That is a difficult question. One of those portfolio career people, but at the same time, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. We like to say multimedia node. That's what we like to say. I don't know what a node is, but... That's the point. Yeah. No one really knows what a portfolio is. It doesn't matter. Also, that feels quite analogue age, doesn't it?

3:23The portfolio. Yeah. It's in a manila folder. Manila. Yes. But it feels like you unfold a big A3 leather sort of thing and you go, here's my portfolio. Yes, because I did in my days of being a journalist, I had a paper portfolio of all cuttings of the things I used to do, like which drink gets you drunkest or 24 hours naked. That was the kind of thing. I'm surprised that wasn't one article, to be honest. That feels like a real top combo. What drink does get you drunkest? I can't remember because it was all just very staged and we all got drunk and then we pretended to throw up into the toilet because that was a good shot, we thought.

3:55So someone had their hair being held back. Someone was dancing on the tables. I can't remember. Wine, vodka, beer was what we trialled. No idea what happened other than we all got drunk as usual and the company paid for it. Oh, what a life. What a life you've led. But that was pre-kids portfolio. What's in Emily Pink's portfolio or on the hub of your node now? Okay. I would say I am a top triple jumper, which always starts conversations at parties. Amazing. And I would say I'm a writer. I call myself a writer now rather than a content creator or an influencer, which is a bullshit term for that whole thing.

4:32Just written a book about that, hence me talking about being a writer. Because I feel like I'm sort of going back to my sort of writing roots because I did used to be a journalist, as I said, even if it wasn't very serious. And I have written a book before, but this time I'm writing a novel. So I'm not calling myself a novelist yet because it hasn't yet, we haven't yet got to the point where we've got the publisher finalist and everything. I do have a very, very fancy agent and I have nearly finished editing it. So we're getting there. It's now nearly at the point where my agent will pitch it to the publishers out there and then hopefully I'll get a publishing deal and then hopefully it'll become a book in the world.

5:09Listen, there's bound to be some publishers listening right now. How much do you want for your book, Emily? Oh, lots of millions, please. Yeah, or 500 quid? No. Okay, I'd take that if you're listening. For my novel, the£500 is absolutely fine. Helen and I, we did, I worked out once that, so we wrote this book in 2017, 2018? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Called Scummy Mummies. And I worked out once that for each copy sold, we made 20 pence each. And that book is no longer in print, listener, which is why I still live in Catford. But anyway, don't let that put you off. I live Catford adjacent and I also publicly...

5:45You can see Catford from your house. You literally can see Catford from your house. I can. But one does not write a novel because one is expecting to get rich. No, exactly. One writes a novel because one is expecting to get, I don't know, attention. Let's be honest. It's all about the launch party. Yes. But come on, let's get to the triple jump. So actual, as in actual athletic, what is the definition of a triple jump? I mean, it sounds obvious, but when you think about it, how does it work? So it is effectively a hop, a step, like a bound, and then a jump into the sandpit. So like a long jump at the end.

6:23So I guess the idea, I mean, I don't know why on earth triple jump is an Olympic sport, but it is. And I'm not complaining because it seems to suit me. But I guess it's using your body to jump in three different ways. Like an assortment, like, you know, you get those like desserts. It's like chocolate three ways or whatever. Yes. In posh restaurants. So this is like jumping three ways. Okay. So hop. So you're taking off. You run. Right. And then you take off, in my case, your left foot. And then you hop as far as you can. And then you land with your left foot again. And then you take off with your left foot and you land on your right foot.

6:55So like a big step. And then you take off with your right foot. It sounds more complicated than river dance. It's rare to watch. And you land in a sandpit at the end. And you try and go as far as you can. And it's all about speed and power and boigniness, technical term. Propulsion. Yeah. and I have to do a lot of training involving plyometrics, which is like bouncing and getting your body strong so it can hit the ground and rebound like a bouncy ball. Wow. And it's quite a lot when you're in your mid to late 40s, but it's very exciting. So when did you take this up? I started a year ago. I started actual triple jumping just over a year ago and then a year before that I started this whole world of track and field in terms of sprinting and jumping and stuff because I'd never done athletics properly before.

7:44I've done a lot of running all through my life. Like I've done many park runs. I once did a marathon a very long time ago. But like it was all, none of it was like proper competitive running. It was more like gets you out of the house, keeps you fit, do the old park run, you know, that sort of thing, have a PB. But it was never like I was never thinking I was going to win a medal, like a gold, silver or bronze. And I missed competitive sport because I'm a very competitive person and I needed an outlet because what was starting to happen was that I was becoming too invested in my children's sporting endeavors.

8:16You could feel the fun that. It was not. And I knew it was bad. It was bad for him because the pressure was too much. And there was one point at which when he was on this, like trying to get in a football academy, where I realized that I desperately wanted it for him, but I didn't know how much I wanted it for him and how much I wanted it for me. And then it didn't happen. And then it all blew up in the car journey on the way home. and then I had to pull over because he was so upset and then I realized that I'd been the worst mom and then I was literally crying and I got my 10 year old like patting me and telling me it's okay when I was both crying on each other it's a low point but a learning point because I thought yeah I've learned a lesson here and he has seen me learn that lesson at least at least he's seen me realize that I have done this wrong and from then on I became much better at letting him lead the way in terms of sport and i also realized that i needed to find something because i wanted i needed that competitive outlet because most things in life you're not supposed to be competitive in like in the world of content creation and all that being competitive is bad and feeling like you're comparing yourself with anybody else is only a one-way street to unhappiness comparison being thief of joy and all that but i am very very naturally competitive so i was a bit like i need to find an outlet and what better outlet than an actual sport where you can compete against not only well you're competing against people of your own age and that's why masters athletics is so amazing is that i only compete against women age 45 to 49 i'm 47 and then so whatever five year bracket you're in you can try and beat everybody beat everybody in the uk beat everybody in the europe be everyone new world there's there's race there's um competitions are set up and they happen every year indoor and outdoor and it's like i was like oh my god this is what i need and then I just I wasn't sure which things I'd be good at but I always wanted to try athletics but when I was younger I was doing gymnastics and it was like really intense because I was competing for Scotland and it was just like my whole life so I never got to do athletics and then it was a bit felt like it was too late and by then I was drinking heavily and having multiple sexual partners and you know it wasn't compatible.

10:20That does get in the way of of you know the running track. Yes exactly and so now I'm married. Yes. I'm free to triple jump everyone yeah. Yeah get on their pole vault yes well i'm trying to do that too but it's very hard to find a pole vault coach i can tell you is it yeah really hard i had one dump me unceremoniously from a great height you got dumped by a pole he said to me i want i will not let you down and then he let me down what hang on how does a ghosted yeah how how does a pole vault pole i can't say a pole vault coach uh break up with you well we had a date we're going to start in march it's not you it's my pole he was all like i waited for months i'd been doing special pole vault training that i devised myself involving my trapeze and doing leg lifts and various things but i was genuinely like this is i we should say for the listener who in case you don't know emily does she just has a she has a trapeze in her house don't you've had it for years so you had that okay sorry yes um and so i'd done all this training and i was ready and we talked about this for months and because he was like oh no i can't start then but we'll we'll stop and it would have been a lead time of like three or four months March, March, March is when we'll do it finally I'm like okay let's go let's do it and he's like oh yeah you know how I said I wouldn't let you down absolutely wouldn't let you down but I'm actually going to let you down and because I need to spend more time like on the athletes I already have and I just said to him I think that's incredibly unprofessional of you and deeply uncool you can take your pole and you can shove it stick it up your ass I know but anyway in a way I'm glad because it's meant that I can just carry on concentrating on triple jumping which takes up enough of my time and long jumping too is there like a tinder for pole vault coaches can you just swipe until you find another one quite possibly but i'm over it for now i feel like it wasn't my time i'll wait until i'm in my 50s or 60s or beyond because there's a lot of like 90 year old pole vaults that seem to be having living their lives genuinely so because i guess with the pole vault i don't know i can't say pole vault pole vault there's is there less pressure on the joints because you've got the pole helping you up there i don't know i'm just i'm just making you shut up no i don't the thing is this is what's so great about the whole masters athletics thing is that you sort of it's modified modified to wherever you're at and wherever your body's at and you're only compete if you're 90 years old doing the pole vault even if you made made it over like 50 centimeters that's more than most 90 year olds with poles managing yeah you can feel great about yourself like the league thing is very yeah because my dad is is uh he plays squash at the doddage cricket club and he's in i think the 33rd division and there are 34 divisions but he's very proud of himself and very if he gets the top of that division because he beat um derrick who's 84 and in the first stages of parkinson's he's absolutely over the moon he's absolutely overjoyed so good for him yeah exactly so the masters is it's an organization not it's not like a it's not like british athletics or something well it's that's a controversial thing because because in in america for example masters athletics is part of usa athletics so the masters athletes in america get given the proper u.s kit you know like you see like the cd athletes wearing and like the world championships and stuff and they get given this kit and they also get some financial assistance with travel if they you know i think there's certain things that you need to not have there's a word for that anyway they do that whereas in the UK they are much more stingy we have to buy our own kit it's the it's not cool like like the main senior people have and we have to buy slightly like not quite as cool a bit more nylon a bit more polyester and I'm just like what a missed opportunity because even if they didn't want to give us the kit even if we were we paid we're already paying for our kit right but to to promote it and to say to the world if you walk out wearing that kit it's going to attract people going oh my gosh that's so amazing i could i could go and do a masters athletics and and be a proper athlete like the athletes i see on telly and would it really be so so terrible for them to allow us to wear that kit and the thing that also really i mean i have a lot of things to say on the subject and i try not to bore you too much but is the fact that everyone gets old if you're lucky right yeah so it's not like why on earth would you not want to support people athletes who are older than 35 which is what Masters Athletics is, to be the best they can be.

14:49And also I feel like they say, oh, it's not a spectator sport. Why not? I think it's so fun to watch. The European Championships I went to in Madeira a couple of weeks ago, whether you're watching the 85 to 90-year-old men sprint 100 metres or you're watching the 35 to 39-year-old women do the high jump, it's incredible. It's spectacular. and also and i think i've been thinking about this the same way that we like to see our clothes modeled by models that look like us and and the world is starting to realize that right you don't just want to see stick thin people yeah and we don't just unless we're racist we don't just want to see white people in that book exactly so we want to be represented and it makes us more interested in it and it makes us see ourselves in it the same way in athletics why can't we have of people of all ages at the top of their game doing sport to try and win we would watch that if it was presented and also the people watching it people in their 40s 50s 60s whatever we're the ones with the money to buy the stuff that that is being worn you know if you're promoting kit or you're promoting whatever it is i'll buy i'll buy a phone finger and leave it whenever it's on the track yeah i'll do it a pair of nike trainers because that's what we're wearing and we look cool because we're in our 50s or whatever and we're still jumping over things yeah i just think there's a huge marketing opportunity and it yeah would you i read about this thing the other day where's this this other um i can't remember if it's bodybuilding or athletics but there's some sporting thing where the conceit is the athletes are allowed to take any and all and all the performance enhancing yeah they want they can take all the steroids all the fucking i don't know whizz whizz whatever they're doing i mean that's i feel like morally that sounds awful and also i sort of want to watch it because i'm a bad person yeah i i know i mean it is highly controversial and there are the odd athlete the couple of top athletes who have said i'm going to go and do that and and they've been roundly condemned by the by the community oh yeah understandably i condemn it morally yeah you still want to watch it i want to watch i want to watch someone do a marathon in an hour like billy whiz from pheno but but you don't need to have a performance enhancing drugs what you need are 85 year olds on a bottle of lucas aid you know trying to do the hurdles i mean it is yeah or how i do that's disrespectful they can do the hurdles but it's it's it's there is jeopardy like when we were watching the hurdle i think it was the 80 85 year olds um and you're watching them and there's this one man and he was going like there There was no way because some of them stepped over the hurdles, but he was not stepping and he was fully going for it.

17:27And he just did it. We were all like, oh my God. And then he's like, is he going to go? Is he? Will he? And he was like, yes. And he jumped it again and he just clipped it. And yeah. And then while he did learn, he fell flat on his face. But it's like, it's like good for you, mate. But he gets up. Yeah. Here's this guy in his eighties and he's so fit and strong. Rather than falling, like, you know, your average eight to five year old might just trip and fall slightly and that's it. And they'll be lying on the ground being eaten by their cats. Whereas this guy jumps up and carries on. Yeah. Or how about this as a sort of halfway compromise?

17:57Steroids and all that, that's nasty shit, isn't it? Drunk Olympics. Yes. I would like to watch like an 85-year-old or someone of any age like do the, maybe not the javelin that's too dangerous, but maybe do a pole vault after a bottle of port. Or I'd like to see a relay race, but everyone's absolutely smashed. Just granny's just going, come here, give me the fucking thing. Come here, I'm coming. Fucking give me the fucking baton. It's pronounced baton. Shut up. Fuck you. Why are you like this? Yeah. Oh, God. I knew this would happen. Should we get a kipper? I would watch that. Yeah, that sounds great.

18:33I would be up for that. I would compete in that too. So, and I guess the other thing is, is like, because with running, which obviously Helen knows a little bit about, possibly even more than me, it's more, there's more often a sense of camaraderie, right? And we're born in it together. But with this, you are with people who are like you. so they are everyone wants to win does it get quite can it get nasty I think there's there are tensions and you can feel them more in some I think in the sprints I've heard because I mean I've only done 100 sprint but I'm going to do more sprint races but it's more like because you're directly next to them and you're yeah you know whereas I do more the jumps where you go one at a time right and they're sort of they say that they're kind of the field events as they call the jumps and throws are more friendly because you're sort of standing about and people you do your thing and then you're doing it by yourself.

19:19Yeah. So, but there's also this sense of being in it together because we're doing this Masters Athletics thing and we're all in it and we're there, we're doing it. But I do think that what I wanted, because a lot of when I've listened to people talk about Masters Athletics and there's a lot of talk of inclusivity and the idea is that we just want everyone to come and just do it. It's like, it doesn't matter whether you win or not. I'm like, no, that is bullshit. Because the point for me, and I think for so many of us, and why shouldn't it be, is that we really want to win. like why should we try to cover that up I cover that up in most aspects of my life because it's not palatable for people especially when you're a woman but to be able to go I really want to fucking win that and to be allowed to do that it's such an outlet so yeah because I won the UK indoor triple jump and then I went to try and defend like not defend well to win the outdoor which is usually harder there's more people but I'd hurt my hamstring but I showed up and I only managed one jump but it was the best like it was like the jump that was for the next few rounds was still the longest jump.

20:20But I had to sit there because I couldn't do any more. Cause my leg, I was, I was done. you know, I mean, I was already, I was already like limping around, but I was like, Oh my God, am I going to be able to hold onto it? And I really wanted to, but then what I really learned from that was that I didn't, I came second because this other woman jumped further than me in good honor. Was that, I don't know. It sort of healed something in me. I was like, it's okay. I came and I tried it like this whole trying and desperately wanting to win, but then if it doesn't work out this is what I'm trying to teach my children is that's fine wanting it and then it not happening is all great that's all fine that's all part of it but having that fire burning in you and it still was I was like but I want to come back and get you know be uninjured and try again and I went to the Europeans and then I jumped like a personal best and got the UK number one ranking and guess what right this is news and you guys will appreciate this because you are record holders but I am now the Scottish record holder for the triple jump in my history Yay!

21:17Yes! I know. Now I have time for losers because she is the champion. Yeah, so I'm quite chuffed. That's amazing. I'm quite chuffed. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks. So, yeah, I do feel good about that. But I also feel, because I came fourth, which I'm amazed by in this whole European thing, came fourth and jumped 997, which is three centimetres off, 10 metres, which is like a holy grail of tripped jumping in many ways. So I'm like, but I feel like I'm, I know I can jump further. I did jump further actually, but it was a foul jump. like the last two were foul jumps so my foot went over the line slightly so then they don't measure it yes but i now feel like i want to come back and it's the european indoors in poland and the end of march so i'm like over 10 meters let's try for a medal let's go yeah so wow oh that's amazing emily i was going to say inspirational but i'm not sure if that's the right word because i'm not inspired to attempt it myself because it sounds quite hard my knee's not up to it but it's i love that you've just started this thing in your yeah in your 40s and gone that's that's what i'm gonna do yeah in my dotage i was like what i really need to be doing is triple jump but actually that was a thing because i was in i was in the kind of i don't really care about anything wilderness for a couple of years after covid i'm like well what's the point because you try and make plans and then the plans don't work out and that and it doesn't necessarily matter because the thing that happens when the plans don't work out might actually be just as good as if you planned it and that took around my whole being because i'm a planner i like to have a goal so I was really yeah I was really taken aback by that but then I was like you know what it doesn't matter how bizarre and specific it is the thing that you're trying to achieve as long as you care the caring thing and I have a piece of artwork in the house and it says who cares wins which I think is absolutely right and just caring enough to go for something it doesn't matter what it is as long as you're not like hurting anybody else then then that's the thing and that's what I feel like I try to if there's any message that I send out from all of this it's like go find your triple jump go find it and then just try and do it as best you can because it makes you feel really good yeah I think that's true and because that's what I kind of wanted to hear from you is that when you choose something or when you have that focus or goal setting and I think that's something I didn't do for many many years because I thought well I'm I'm not I've always been bad at sport I've always been crap at this or was always been not good enough that's my general kind of you know less than not as good and then when I started choosing to do something and I'm never going to win a marathon or I'm never going to win that sort of thing but I'm competitive against myself yeah and that I like I know I can I can do better next time but you could be you could do masters athletics though you could be competitive against women in your say in your age category I do like to check my park run rankings.

24:06I've got second in my age category at Dulwich. Very strong. But this is really great. If you come and do Masters of Athletics, you might get a silver medal if you came. Oh, if you come. I think so. Yeah. Like, why not? Why be, like, this for me was like, that's what wasn't enough. Yes, you can picture with yourself, but, and I think for many people that is enough, but I think there are a lot of people out there who are like me, feel that they don't want to just come, you know, 222nd in this race and be beaten by all these. Yeah, it gives you that. You're like, we don't care about those stupid men or these stupid young people.

24:40It's only people in your circle. And then you're like, now, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's awesome. I used to get first in shot put, so maybe I should go into that. Come. I can love a shot put. Bring it back. Bring it back. Love a shot put. I think that's great. I'm trying to get Ewan into throwing the hammer because I want to drag him quite a lot to support me. He's just sitting around. You get people, they start going, does he want to try something? Come on. And he started to say, well, I can throw the hammer, maybe the hammer. And so I'm going to really try and encourage him because the hammer looks like fun.

25:16Like, you know when you whirl around, around, around, and then you let go at the right point. It does look fun. It does look fun. I have to say, I think, I'm not going to say I have no competitive streak, but I do, I do, I think it's, for me, it's more about the joy of it. Like, because I like video games and video games competitive. I love Mario Kart and I love, you know, winning at Mario Kart, but I don't, I'm not sad if I don't, but maybe you're not. I don't know. Maybe that's not what you do. Oh, I was at the British Championship, even though I knew I was injured and I'd come second. I literally cried all the way home on the train.

25:51Literally crying. Yeah. even though i was priding myself for everything i'd gone there to win even though i knew i was injured but for me that is like if you don't if i didn't have that if i didn't hate losing so much right i wouldn't be as inspired to win yes and i i think that's in a way that then that's a positive for you and that drives you on and i think because i don't have that i wouldn't be good at it you need something to motivate you to go because of course as you know yeah like Like the train, it's all about the training. So the showing up and the performing at the thing, there's a certain element of you've got to be good at like getting ahead in the game, pulling out a performance when it's necessary, like getting your foot on the line.

26:33Like there's lots of that stuff. And for me that harks back to my gymnastics days a bit because I'm used to standing on a runway and thinking about what I have to do and then executing it as people are watching you. But it's the every single day, it's the plan of the training and all the things you've got to do. And every day you've got to get up and be motivated enough to put yourself through the pain and everything. You've got to have something that's driving you that makes you do that every day. And yeah. And if you don't hate losing that much or you don't love winning as much as I do, it's where why would you bother?

27:08Yeah. You know, because I'm a big believer like you in showing up and that's with my writing. all right I've had some weeks off here and there for various reasons but I try and show up every day and just do some writing um but that's because the end goal is not to beat anyone or win anything it's to say I've done this thing and here's even if it's not published at this point honestly it's to say I completed this manuscript and you know and then we'll then we'll worry about whether or not it gets published of course I want it to be but that is the thing and I'm in this creative writing group and and genuinely maybe they would disagree I don't feel like there is competition like I feel like there is room for everybody and of course we all want a book deal but like and one of the one of the women is is sort of in the process of getting one and she told us and she was oh you know I won't go on about it over and everyone's like no we want to learn about the process and we want to hear your good news and we want to share in the you know because if one of us is elevated then it's possible for all of us to be elevated and I think that's what you and I have always had yeah yeah definitely I think that's I think that's it and all say oh and i mean i've just loved watching you follow this dream and watch ellie follow her dream and also i i've was with you both when i remember you the moment you said i think i might go into athletic you know and and as a friend to see someone going i've had this thought that i'm going to do something for myself beyond my kids beyond anything else and you've fucking held on to that and that that for everyone else is such a great thing and i think you know when sharing that it's brilliant and also fucking owning it i think that's the thing i think you know and more broadly i think the dialogue around women being competitive or being ambitious or being loud or being successful that is changing yeah we're still fighting it we're still like be quiet be humble don't show off but actually this this stuff is good and i want my daughter i want my son to see you know women of my age myself and things like that do well because my mum faded into the background at this age you know that whole essence of when you get to your 40s you disappear well fuck that yeah yeah yeah but I think you can hold the space for I think yeah it's interesting hearing you talk about the book because I'm the same in the sense that my book was that I just wanted to finish it because that was a goal that I'd set myself and then also this whole thing of you can want to win desperately but you can also be impressed and and um you know happy for people right who didn't so i amazed myself in a way but even though i cried all the way home when i didn't win the triple jump competition i got to know a little bit the woman who did and i'm like you're a really cool person and you work really hard and i'm i'm really sad for me that i didn't win but i'm really i am happy for you and i'm but i have i've come quite a long way on that one because it's so much nicer way to live is to have that, be able to have both because it's not like an either or.

30:05And I think I used to think it was. And you can be like happy for someone else, but also sad for yourself. So what changed for you? How did you flip the switch? I think it was a realisation as to how you want to, like your day-to-day experience. If you have this kind of, you have to hate the people you're competing against and to want to beat them. the whole experience of like the weekend of going to this competition and hanging out with all the people and all that stuff becomes really quite unpleasant because you're just looking at everyone going oh you horrible people trying to get the thing that i want but if you kind of go okay these are cool people who are doing things that are same as me and we have loads in common and we can chat we can get to know each other and we can have a nice time but we also want to win you you can have those two things.

30:51It's just a nicer experience. And it didn't diminish. I think also I was worried that it might diminish my competitive edge, but it doesn't do that. And it's really, I'm fascinated by the rivalry or the lack of rivalry between Keely Hodgkinson and Georgia Hunter-Bell, the two of the three runners. Yes, yes. And watching, do you know who I mean? Keely Hodgkinson won the gold. She won Olympic gold and we were there in Paris and we watched her do it and we literally high-fived her afterwards. So we feel quite close to this. And Georgia Hunter-Bell is another incredible 800-meter runner. But she came to athletics or came back to athletics relatively late.

31:27But the two of them train together. They're two gorgeous, hot, blonde women. And they compete next to each other. But they clearly have such great friendship. But someone has to win. But they seem to manage that so incredibly well. And yet they must be two of the most competitive women in the country because you cannot do what they're doing without desperately, desperately wanting to win. But they're still friends with one of their main competitors. and I'm like you can live like this yeah so not that I'm about to win an Olympic gold but but fuck it you know like why shouldn't I be as proud of doing being the best I can be at my age I can't help the fact that I'm in my 40s one day they'll be in their 40s you know that's how it is I do think it's similar in comedy backstage I mean obviously in our dressing room but even if you're on like a mixed bill of other comedians there's generally a sense of we're all about to go and do this hard thing and and it's a fucking war zone out there and you never quite know what you're going to get and of course you occasionally get the well you always get the odd complete wanker slash sex pest often both in the same person but usually male then i've seen i'm well hashtag not all men emily you know my views on that but generally there's a sense of camaraderie in a sense of right okay you know it not so much good luck it's there's a war but just sort of like you know oh how did it go or sounded like you smashed it or you know but maybe I don't know maybe that's just because we've just been in nice rooms when we do mixed bills I don't know yeah I think so and it's you know it's it's a it's a weird funny job like this then the fact you know Ellie and I have devoted our you know largely our working career to saying silly things on stage wearing silly costumes you're jumping up and down in sand like if you just sort of say that out loud you're like so yeah that's that's that's my jam that's what i like and keep what i think i mean you said it like the sense of humor thing is huge having a sense of humor about yourself about life about everything yeah stops it all from becoming too especially when you are trying to like be at the top of your game yeah also be able to look and go yeah that i'm a bit of a dick aren't i want what the hell am i doing jumping into pits of sand yeah yeah that's all cool that's all part of it jumping up and down in sand the emily murray story i love it i'd read that yeah it's Amazing.

33:40Sandy balls. Yes. You don't actually jump up in sand because you only ever... You're not doing yourself any favours now, Emily. What do you mean? Because you only ever take off from the track and you land into the sand. Oh, yes. It's much harder if you had to actually jump out of the sand and then back into it. So what do you jump out of? The track. What's that made of? Like a slightly springy sort of like rubbery stuff. Jumping off rubbery stuff into sand. The Emily Murray story. there we go we've nailed it i'm gonna go and pitch it it's very catchy now pivoting but talking of women supporting women you've written down here helen that we should discuss the new lily allen album what did you what give us your hot take well i wanted to talk about it because it's of the zeitgeist because we are talking about you know women who have been empowered by rage and also honestly talking about the toxicity of men without trying to protect them anymore because this is what has happened over time that women have said i'm not telling the full truth because i'm protecting the man his career i'm protecting other people i'll go quietly and so this i thought had a bit of a relevance because um and we touched on at the beginning of the podcast that you used to in sort of women's magazines and the way women were portrayed, projected at that time.

35:05You know, everything's cool, no worries. But no, we're fucking angry. A lot of us are really and treated very badly. And this album has such an impact. All these women have sort of come up and come out and said, look, no, I've encountered this. This is talking to me. And I think in what you were talking about before about saying, I don't want to have shame around these feelings anymore. I want to say it how it is. And I think that's, so I wanted to get your sort of take on it because I remember you were in that world, the Ladette world. We had Jimmy, our friend who was the journalist on recently and he worked for, was it Loaded Magazine, Ellie?

35:43One of the Ladettes. He was in the same, he worked for the same publishing house as me, I think, Bauer Media. I remember him being around building. Yeah. And, and he was saying, you know, it was very of the time that, you know, there's this projection of, of this, this sort of masculinity, which I don't think would wash now, even though we've got, you know, all this bullshit with, you know, your Andrew Tates and things like that. I'm rambling, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on it, Emily, because I know that you, you know, we've had many a chat about rising above the bullshit of it all.

36:14Yeah, well, I mean, it just reminded me the culture of where we used to work, that there was one guy that I worked at a men's magazine and he sent me an email of, he'd taken a photograph of me and he'd taken a photograph of a very large penis and he put them together on a picture so that I was looking up at his very large penis, sent that to me. Wow. So that was deemed okay on a work email. I mean, obviously I told him it wasn't okay and then he managed to somehow delete it from the whole system as if it never happened before. Wow. But yeah, it was a different culture. I mean, I personally, and this sounds like I'm like, it wasn't me, but I wasn't on the news side of things.

36:48So I wasn't responsible for working out what was the sort of the cover story and the, you know, all of that stuff. Also, More Magazine, I thought, especially of its age, was very, I thought it was kind of a bit ahead of its time because we were about humour. We were about women being funny and kind of being our own selves and doing our own thing. And I used to do a lot of these real life stories and speaking to women who'd done crazy stuff or like, you know, did a lot of sex parties. I mean, there's a lot of sex, actually. um but i think that the it's if you look back at those magazines now and you look at especially places like heat heat was the next door to us and the sort of circle of shame stuff and all those things but it's so funny because like at that time no one really there were a lot of really cool lovely smart women who worked in these magazines and that i don't remember anybody saying or should Is this okay?

37:47That wasn't really a conversation. Because do you think is that because we had all grown up in the patriarchy as well and it was sort of we'd grown up in this petri dish of not that dissimilar to the way a lot of kids who spend a lot of time on TikTok are now and to be surrounded by this sort of low-level general message that this is all fine and this is how the world is and women are this and men are this. I don't know. I just think we weren't really thinking about it. We were more thinking about how can we sell copies of the magazine, who will work on the cover. And that's what I mean is, were you not thinking about it?

38:23Because if a fish is in water, it doesn't know it's in water. Yeah, I think so. That did sell. I think, you know what, as well, I think we felt like we just made a big leap forward. I think we felt like we were being cool. We were being, you know, the Ladder thing. We were like, we were ahead of it. We were like laughing at the idea of people getting offended by things because we were all like, yeah, we were down with the lads. We were doing it. We were, I don't know, it just didn't feel like victims. We as women did not feel like victims. And we didn't feel like we were victimizing other women.

38:57But then I think the biggest difference is that was the time pre-social media or just at the start of social media where celebrities were still celebrities. And there wasn't that understanding, the blurring of lines that you get now and that you get when people send you nasty trolling DMs, to be honest, and you kind of go, I hadn't really thought that you were a real person. They used, so in the same way that it used to be like celebrities were used as being, they're not really people. And they sort of, they're ciphers for concepts. So when we had like features meetings, it would be like, well, I guess you see it now even.

39:33Like Lily Allen has, you know, written this thing saying how much, you know, what bad times she had with her ex. Here's this real life person who also had a bad time with her ex. but we could go more like here's Britney Spears and she shaved off all her head and had a psychotic episode here's someone else who had a psychotic episode but it was more seen as being these people were there to provide us with talking points rather than thinking oh poor Britney like let's talk about how psychologically damaged she must be that wasn't the way we saw celebrities yeah but I think there's been a shift and certainly with Lily Allen's album and now we've got this you know the Epstein files and this the artist formerly known as Prince Andrew, which in itself has wound me up.

40:17I mean, it had to be amazed here that the, so anything to do with the royal family has wound me up, but it really winds me up. And that's obviously it's, it's great that he's been like thrown out because he is, I think we're allowed to say now. Yeah. Certainly has paid someone money who said that he was a nonce. In fact, his mother paid the money, which is a blot on the Queen's copy book. I would argue if we're paying off, you know, people on behalf of nonces, I would say. But anyway, that's another story. But I heard on a podcast the other day on a news podcast and someone was saying, oh, what King Charles has done.

40:49He's been very brave. He's been so brave in making this big, bold move. And I thought, all right, maybe. I mean, it's an act of self-preservation. I don't think he's done it out of the goodness of his heart or because he really, whatever he said in his hilarious statement, I don't think he's really supporting. He certainly hasn't offered the family any more money or anything like that. But also, this man is an adulterer and i find it weird that we've got this new story everyone's going oh he's the bad brother or look at david harvey yeah well andrew you know obviously arguably nonceries worse but yeah yeah everyone's going look at david harvey isn't he terrible isn't he terrible all that all that adultery and then we're also going oh but well done prince charles who married a woman when she was 19 and he was 30 odd fully knowing he was having an affair which was going to continue i believe he had sex with that woman the night before his wedding yeah um and then continued that to the point where the woman got an eating disorder and serious mental health problems but we're all going oh well but at least he's not a nonce so therefore he's a great guy yeah i just and he's the fucking king yeah i these are the this is the man we're saying that's the best of Britain.

42:04Here we go, the world. He's representing us. Wow. Yeah, you make a very good point. Thank you, Emily. It's a bloody thought for the day. Yeah, it was an excellent thought. I won't be buying Dutchie original anything anymore from Waitrose. I haven't for years. It drives Pete mad because even if it's in the reduced section, I won't buy it. And he says that Prince Charles sold it or something anyway years ago, but I'm not, I don't care. The name's the same. No, but if he did, we need to investigate because then we can buy it again. Because the cheese biscuits are very good. The cheesy biscuits are very good, but he hasn't made them.

42:38I think it's about the brand name. I wouldn't buy Prince Andrew's Hobnobs. Do you know what I mean? Even if they're just called Andrew's Hobnobs from now on, I would not buy those Hobnobs. No one wants them. Brandy Andy. Awful, awful human being. Maybe Brandy Andy's brand. No. Well, good. You've had a rant about Lilliette or David Harbour. I've had a rant about Prince Andrew. So any men or, it feels unlikely, but women you would like to rant about, Emily? No, as I said, I'm in my serene era. So I'm fine. Good for you. You're very zen. Very zen. Christ. I've got to say, she doesn't have her head in the sand.

43:15She's got her feet in the sand. She's not, she's just, you know, she's just doing her jumping off the tarmac into the sand. Rubbery. I don't know if it's tarmac. It's not tarmac. It's not tarmac. Tarmac's hard. Yeah, my knees wouldn't, the 47-year-old knees would not deal with tarmac. It's not AstroTurf, though, is it? Because obviously that's grass. If anyone knows what the stuff Emily is jumping off is, please write in. Maybe if you're a manufacturer of the substance, send us a sample and let us be the judge. OK, now, Helen and I need to go and meditate just to calm down. But first, it's time for Scummy Mummy Confessions.

43:50Helen. Yes. Would you like to go first? Yes, I would. So, you know how I'm much more empowered and less embarrassed these days about most things. But on Thursday night was my birthday and I was going off for a little mini break to Prague. And, you know, with my boyfriend for three nights, so, you know, there was a high chance of sex. There was a really good chance we'd have sex. And I thought, oh, better get some lube because, you know, I'm 47. It's a little dry. so I forgot to pack it so I thought oh alright I whispered in his ear I've got to go buy a lube so I went off to Boots by myself and he'll walk around and then I got that and I thought oh I need water so I had some water and then don't get those two mixed up no no and some gum so fresh mints definitely don't get that one fresh mints hydrated lubricated right so that's good anyway so I'm at the till and I thought oh just do this quickly I don't want anyone to know I have sex and so I was scared Apart from everyone listening to the podcast.

44:53Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes. I was very embarrassed anyway. And anyway, so I scanned it in, but then I didn't, I was trying to pay very quickly. I didn't want anyone to see me, but then I hadn't scanned something properly and it was kind of going, whip, whip, you know, oh, in the baggage aisle. And then I thought, no, I can't, I just have to go. So then I picked up the lube and the water and the mints and then I went to the thing next to it. But then another person came and then because the alarm had gone off that I hadn't scanned things properly, people like is this yours i was like no that's not my i wasn't buying lube no and they're just like heading to void things like take the lube off the thing and then i was just oh god anyway we had sex and it was without right no i bought the lube eventually after fumbling bumbling making it quite a quite a scene out of it and i should have just been grown up more more grown up anyway so that's my that's my confession i think your voice has reached that register which means i'd stop talking about this now please thank you i'm impressed that you that you got through that whole scenario with the loop like i would never have touched that loop after that i would have run off well i needed it and i thought what would be more embarrassing going in prague i don't have the language skills i don't know or him getting stuck in there having to go to the a in Prague.

46:13We can't get him out. No, no, no. He's safe and they're for good now. No, he's caught on something. Yeah, yeah. That's it. Need some lube. Get him out. Yeah. Oh, Emily, can you follow that? I didn't know I had to prepare a confession. I'm just thinking if I have any confession. I'm sure I do, but I'm very bad at thinking of them. Ellie, do you have one? Yeah. My confession is yesterday I went to the Spirit of Christmas Fair. Lovely. That is a confession. Fucking November. I fucking love Christmas and I got some press tickets full disclosure but I've been before and I really love it it's at Kensington Olympia they just have a lot of stalls selling cool stuff and nice food and drink and I always get quite a lot of Christmas presents there and I went with my friend Nurse Jessie who regular listeners will be familiar with my oldest friend and my goddaughter her daughter Megan and we had a lovely time and I like getting all don't look at me like that Emily it's all nice and christmasy there's fir trees and baubles and christmas music and it's just lovely um and uh we have a laugh and yeah but there's sort of maybe the low point was when we there was like a sort of a knicker stand selling like um nice knickers oh um and christmassy knickers and i saw it and i went oh oh my gosh maybe i need some christmas knickers and jesse went oh ellie for god's sake no one needs festive knickers and i and i honestly as as a joke as in the sort of joke you can only say to your oldest friend i went for god's sake i'm sorry i ever brought you you miserable killjoy and as i said that this girl like running the stall who was about 22 like walked past us this beautiful shiny faced blonde young person and she just her head just turning her bob swung round and she just looked at me with a look of horror on her face and jesse was just doubled over with laughter and um i'd like to apologize to that lady i tried to sort of go it's it's it's a joke it's this is how and i would say this you'll understand this is how women in their late 40s talk to each other you'll get here one day but it was it was too late and i didn't buy any knickers but um we had a good laugh so yeah that's my confession i love that I still haven't managed to think of one.

48:33I'm sure I've done so many things that I shouldn't have done over the last few weeks. Do you remember when I bumped into you in the supermarket? You were so drunk and you were with your friend. Do you remember that? No. Here we go. There we go. So Emily and I live down the road from each other, so often we just bump into do. And I just try to remind Emily the last time I saw you in the supermarket. You were with a friend and you were holding two bottles of wine. You'd been out. You're like, I've had cocktails and rosé and we just need more champagne. And you're wafting around the little mini Sainsbury's with this lovely male friend and you're going back to your house to drink even more.

49:12I have no recollection. I've given you your scummy mummy confession. That is a great confession then. Genuinely. Yeah. Think. I vaguely remember seeing you in Sainsbury's at some point fairly recently. Yeah. But I don't know who the man could have been. I don't know what the... I mean, hopefully it was champagne, although you have to ask them at the till. And you're like, but I've got champagne at home. Oh, that would make sense. That would make sense. Because if you said I was holding bottles of champagne, that would make up. Because you can't pick up bottles of champagne in the little saints' booth because you can only get them from behind the security thing.

49:44Oh, yeah. It's gone very hardcore at our local... Because then there's been people jumping over the counter to steal. Really? So that's why they've had to box it in. Oh. I know. It's so very edgy. but yeah you were holding bottles of rosé it was about five o 'clock and you're going for after i believe you i do believe you but i just can't because it would be my cousin i just don't even know any man so it was all above board it was anyway so that's your scummy mommy confession which you can't remember oh excellent it was it was perfect thank you helen for stepping in uh by logging Emily's own life for her.

50:23Amazing. So I guess you don't have a publication date for your book, Emily, so we can plug your book. Well, apparently it will be in 2027. Okay. Which is a long time and not really a date. Well, just come back on then and plug it then. Yeah, I will. Absolutely. I mean, there's no way I would have let you not have me on to talk about it. Absolutely. So yes, something to the floor. In the meantime, where can people follow you? At Pink House Living. And you will soon be seeing the results of my renovation because we've had a lot done to the house so the top two floors are being renovated and we're getting to the, well, by Christmas, every renovation cliche ever.

50:57We're supposed to be more or less finished. Come for the triple jump content and stay for the, I don't know, lots of drinking of champagne. Have you redone one of the hallways? So it's like half sand and half that rubbery stuff. Actually, one of the posts on my feed is of the hurdle in the hallway so it could be used as a, I mean, we didn't actually try it because that would be stupid. but I do use the hallway to triple jump in. Amazing. Amazing. Is the trapeze, has that survived? Trapeze is still going strong. It just, it makes me feel a bit seasick now when I get up there, but I do it when people are around and I've had some drinks because it's a good party piece.

51:32Meanwhile, of course, you can come and see our show, can't you, Helen? That's right. This week we're going to Bath, then we're on to places like Maidenhead. Big show at Catford on the 14th of this month in November and then it's the Christmas shows. And we've got a huge show in Norwich, which could do with some tickets being sold for. I think it's about half gone for Norwich. Catford's nearly gone, but there's still some tickets left. But a lot of the Christmas shows are sold out. Chippy Norton's sold out. Yeah, Mavenhead, I think, is pretty much sold out. And, of course, we are touring into 2026.

52:07And Scummy Mummy's tickets make ideal Christmas gifts, Helen. Absolutely excellent. I can't wait to go to Rotherham. That's our first show. We've got two shows in Winchester. at three shows in Hartford. What a treat. Unbelievable. Triple show. Triple show. Triple jump, triple show. Excellent. And a triple person podcast just to neatly tie things up in a bow. Everyone, this novel's going to be amazing. I'm telling you. Yeah. Lines like that. Three holes. Yes. Three holes. That's right. Three amigos. Three stooges. And of course, Charles, Diana and Camilla, three of us in this marriage. Okay. So there's your callback.

52:46come and see the show thank you very much for listening everybody until next thank you Emily I haven't ever said thank you Emily for coming on the podcast coming all this way all this way across Catford from adjacent Catford to Catford itself anytime and thank you for listening until next time bye bye bye

53:13something's beeping it's the it's the stopwatch I use for my Guinness World Record attempts. And I'd actually finally cleaned that cupboard out and I found the stopwatches and I thought, I couldn't be bothered to reprogram. I thought, no, let's leave them there. It's a nice memento. But does this mean we've just broken a world record? No, it just means I'm too lazy to turn, to reprogram stopwatches. I don't know if you can even hear it on the record. Oh, really? I hope not. it's we just live with them now yeah it's like having a pet that only sort of speaks once a day so this just goes on now for the rest of the day that one goes on no no that will stop that goes on now what time is it about 12.40 it's stopped and then there's another one that goes on at midnight because there's three stopwatches so we don't know why it just is just what it does I like it I didn't think I could cope with that it was you know you might have to have a round to bet the stamp watch it listen some people don't know how you live without an extractor fan this is true my husband would be one of them