326: Steph Douglas on business, anxiety, and ferry sex

0:03Hello scumbags, this is the Scummy Mummies Podcast. with your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne.

0:16Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummies podcast. It's me, Helen Thorne. And it's me, Ellie Gibson. Oh my God, Ellie. Oh, my heart is bursting. Is it? Oh, I feel such love, such warmth. We have not only a friend on the podcast. Yes. we have the most popular podcast guest on the Scummy Mummies of all time. It is, of course, Stephanie Douglas. Guess who's back? Back again. I'm going to be in a point, though. That means I put some pressure on. We should set the scene. If it sounds a bit different, like even more shit than usual, it might sound a bit like we're in a bathroom and we're at the exchange in Twickenham.

0:56Yes, we're in a dance studio. Is it actually a dance studio? Yes, yes. And we're here because we're doing a series of three shows. And we thought, why not invite our favourite, you know, our favourite guest, our most popular guest. Thank you. You know, because she lives near here. Yes, she's very convenient. Well, you have also invited me on other times and I've felt so miserable. I've been like, I can't come on the podcast because I felt like I had something to live up to. I don't feel as miserable now. Now you feel you have something to live for. Yeah. You can come. You can make it. Well, we're very great.

1:29I like that you described it as a series of shows, like a triptych, like some sort of performance art over three nights. Yes, a residential. Yes. You're like Celine Dion. Yes, yes, yes. So that's why we sound a bit echoey. And also, you might hear some creaking. Why is that, Helen? Well, we're both in a leather trouser, really. They both turn up in a leather... Are yours brown? Mine are chocolate pleather. Oh! Really? For my pleather. They're both very nice, but they do make a bit of noise. Are yours real leather? Yeah. Do you remember when we met up and I wore PVC trousers? Yes, yes, yes. You have to oil your inner thighs.

2:08You have to put actual olive oil on it because otherwise they're so loud. It's like you can't wear them without. No, no. But you put oil on your inner thigh and then they just glide and they don't make a noise. So I don't know if you need that. You do lubrinate yourself. Yeah, genuinely. I came away once we were on a weekend away and I took a whole pile of olive oil to douse on my thighs Sexy times Do you still have those trousers? Yeah I haven't for a while but I like them I like a leather trouser I like them I remember now they were very shiny your thighs look like two beautiful aubergine It's just shiny Really shiny Yeah No, it was a good look That's why I wore these today because I you know when you're seeing a friend and you get influenced by Elsa.

2:56Oh, I can't wait to see Stephanie. She likes a leather trouser. And then Ellie must have had that thought too. I just, they were on the top of the pile of clothes. But let's say, yes, I was thinking about Stephanie. You wanted to be stressed on me. I was thinking about you the whole time. Sure, I was. Leather trousers. Leather trousers. You're welcome, Suggs. He's not listening. Sugg-less. We should explain at this point that your husband's name is Doug Douglas. Well, it's not. But you do call him that. It's Mark. It's not as fun. I won't have it. But he's known as Doug. You guys call him Doug.

3:34Yes, yes, yes. But you call him Doug. Yeah. But sometimes Mark. So then people are like, well, who is the other one? Who's Mark? Yeah. So when they realise my surname is Doug, they say, he's called Doug Douglas. No, he's not. but has he ever thought of just going by his actual name to avoid confusion no it just catches on he's Doug Dougie Douglas I think we might start calling you Steph Stephanie to be fair you get called Gibbo so people if they didn't know you were called Ellie they would think you'd be called Gibbo Gibson but no but Gibbo is not a first name is it that's the difference it could be in some cultures yes don't be so you know western normative yeah probably is a very very popular name in the yemen or something something like that or we know apologies to the yemen there and the gibbos anyway look five minutes in and predictably we've yet to say anything of any substance at all uh for anyone who hasn't listened to your previous efforts stephanie uh who are you I'm Steph Douglas.

4:38Steph Douglas. You can also call me Stephanie always. There's only my mum when I'm naughty. I live close to my dear. I've got three children, raising from eight, just eight, to almost 15. Outrageous. And I have a husband called Doug Douglas, and I run a gift company called Don't Buy Her Flowers. Amazing. And you've just had a birthday with Don't Buy Her Flowers. How old is that? 11, 11 years. Fuck. I know. Because they've known you guys 11 years, probably. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because we've been going for 12 years. Yeah, we started the podcast 12 and a half years ago. And we only make friends with successful entrepreneurs.

5:21So we wouldn't have been interested in talking to you 12 years ago. No. So you're very lucky that you're here. So don't buy her flowers. You set up because you hate flowers. That's right, isn't it? No. And you're also naughty. No. I set it up because when I had my first baby I got loads of flowers and was like this is a dreadful gift to give someone who's exhausted and all the things that happen when you have a baby because it's another thing they've got to keep alive. It's another thing to look after and clean and put away and find a vase for and also. Smelly water. Very smelly water. Yeah and also the thing that it's probably this has probably changed since we last spoke but I feel more and more women have jobs a lot more and they have their own money and if you think about the whole flower like it's a pretty thing for a lady it's very feminine and it's usually so well done or thank you or something it's like yeah but a lot of women buy their own flowers if they want them i love buying my own flowers yeah so you were like i'm gonna set up gift boxes with things like chainsaws like condoms like you know yeah sledgehammers real masculine things all of that yeah uh no so their care packages essentially but you can do gift for men women kids workplaces all of those things and people put the biggest things that people put together of a spoke gift box so you choose well you both know because you're both customers but you choose what goes in it yeah and it might be a gin and tonic and a face mask and a bubble bath and some good socks books there's loads of different things i i've used used it many times because you know for a variety of things if someone's going through grief or a birthday or you just want to say thank you it's a really and girls boys all ages and what i love is that each if you if you want to put a message in someone hand writes it they do and that's really lovely and when my book came out four years ago we did um gift boxes for the book and we sent the book out and we had lots of lovely little things we just did some for sophie alisbeckster's album lawn yes that was why that was very impressive I know.

7:25Very, very nice. So, yeah, 11 years is a long old time. So it's been a whole rollercoaster of things. And the messages and what people are doing is really important. And that's quite helpful when it is really stressful, which it can be. Yeah. I think anyone who's got a business or trying to sell, or even like trying to sell a service or a show or a product or whatever you're trying to sell, it's just quite tough. It's a tough country. The country's gone to the dogs. Yeah. And it's a bit miserable. So it's hard. It's a difficult time for lots of people. And you're a very caring person. And how many staff members have you got now?

7:57Because you started in your front room. Yeah, in the spare room. And then we grew massive in COVID. We had like 30 something people at one point, a lot of them in the warehouse. But I think we're now about 10. So, yes. And we've got a warehouse in Gloucestershire. Lovely. Yeah. So it's, but I think it's like when you guys have said about getting together and I've been a bit like, I don't know. I felt like Eeyore a bit for the last probably couple of years. so I'm coming out of that um but we have got some news in that someone is acquiring don't buy her flowers oh wow so I will still be there and the um business and done by flowers will still exist but we will be working with get this interflora an international florist actually who's buying wow seriously seriously you see your dreams come true Ellie so you've been waiting don't buy her flowers was bought by flowers yeah please don't go flowers yeah or or not whichever you want to go with so you could do so don't buy flowers will exist and this is all we're just about to sign everything so hopefully it hasn't gone tits up because this will all be deleted yeah but don't buy flowers will exist and they love the business they also are an international they're they're essentially a tech company but they're florist they're in laser countries the main guys are in sweden and they're very nice and swedish it's like succession and oh yeah that hot sweet oh i liked him oh i liked him a lot scars guard yes yes yes up in the mountains i hope they'll get to go and have a look i was with pot swedes but they they want to develop their gifting alongside their flowers so i will be helping them do that and then they will also be able to help don't buy flowers grow because they have more money yeah um and and also skills and tech stuff and teams and all of that stuff that I don't have and it I was ready for a change because I needed something and I've found it really tough like it's hard so yeah that's where we're going next so how how does it feel because I imagine is it a bit like when like your kid starts school because you're like oh my god this is my baby that I've made and sort of got this far and now I'm sort of handing it over a bit even though i'm sort of still here and that's really emotional and also oh my god fucking oh i can have a fucking cup of tea in peace and calm down yeah i think it will feel all that and i don't know it's that unknown and do you know what it's like having a baby in that when you have a baby everyone tells you what it's going to be like and how it's going to be potentially everyone that's ever had a business sold a business is like oh god oh it'll be a nightmare it'll be an absolute nightmare which is really helpful when you're that's exactly what you need yeah because you're already feeling really calm yeah so and it is quite stressful because it's unknown isn't it but i'm definitely point where i'm like well i need something to change so this works but it it's the unknown i actually cry i had a call with their cto the other day and after i got to cto as i achieved technical officer because that's they're very much tech business when i got off the phone i burst into tears and my friend was like why are you crying i was like because he was really nice and she's like oh god because i don't know you're You're entrusting a load of people who have seemed lovely and the deal's good, everything's good, but you don't know.

11:13Yeah. So I just want them to be good people. I like people. I don't want to get fucked over. I don't think I'm going to be, so that's good. But everyone gives you all these warnings. And you do hear really awful stories about people because there's just lots of unknown and there's loads of legal stuff going on at the moment and that's not my bad. I'm not an expert. But I think on my own, obviously, we have some legal people involved. But, yeah, so we'll see. I think we should get acquired, Helen. That's my dream. Yes. If I'm getting bought by a florist, who are you getting bought by? A man. Stacey Solomon.

11:50Someone nice. Someone much nicer who, you know, cooks very nutritious food for their children and generally, you know, keeps a tidy home. We know we've all had a busy few years. It's all been a lot. we've all got boys the same it get easier i don't when the kids move out then does having said that i don't teenagers are like mad yeah we need to definitely talk about that yeah but they're not as consuming as babies no i don't feel like you know like people i don't wouldn't want to say oh bigger kids bigger problems because when people say that i just think oh they're forgetting what how crackers you felt when they were yeah yeah you know what i mean i look at fighters of age 10 years ago when I had the kids I look 10 years older than I am now you know like oh you see the and the mums you see in the supermarket with like one baby on the hip and the toddler yeah pushing the like the little toy pram and them having a meltdown like no you can't there's a family that live opposite us and they've got three kids but the eldest is Frank's age so then they've got like a two-year-old and a six-year-old and he was going to school the other day and he had two guitars buggy the two older kids were on bikes so they were weaving in front of him oh and the the guitars kept falling off his shoulder and i was just walking like like it's funny yeah and i said to his wife and she was like oh my god it's it like it just looks so stressful yeah they're at peak hour and they you know the horns are all going off yeah the lanes are blocked like everything is yeah yeah yeah exactly so big kids are different yeah there's they are wild and interesting and all the different things yeah they can also sit and watch good telly with you i feel that this bit is easier my kids are nearly 11 and 14 now and like you said her i'm really enjoying it not all the time obviously there's still loads of fun they can be moody like yeah and rude and gcse meltdowns and you know like all of that and just shit at communicating like i went to pick up buster and i sat outside in the car for 20 minutes from an appointment and he'd gone home right yeah like i've just lost an hour getting here sitting here he's like i just got in the bath i was like but i said i was gonna pick you up like that stuff and every night the argument about going to bed every single night yeah the repetitive yeah nature of it but do you remember that i remember that age i don't remember being seven eight nine but that teenager it feels closer even though it is 30 years ago but it feels closer so you remember the feelings that they're going through which maybe gives you a bit more empathy as well yeah yeah but i still think so far because again the big one's only 14 so we've a bit yet to get we could still it still could go horribly wrong yeah that could all go tits up but so far i would say it is easier than having toddlers because like you're saying it's not as consuming it's not as physically like do you remember when they're all over you all the fucking time yeah so you can leave the house i think i genuinely think people forget how much that was maybe because you have to forget because it was hard but it it was so much and like you like you lose yourself for a period 100 % like and it takes quite a while to get that back whereas I can leave the house or Doug and I could go should we go for lunch on the weekend and the big ones can babysit Frank can't quite leave him on his own but like you've got a life back yeah where you can do stuff oh absolutely and you know I yeah I I love the conversations I have with them now I feel closer to them you know they're they're they're great buddies we feel like housemates like but we went through a really hard time like we had a couple of years where she was going through a hard time and that was that was really tricky yeah I mean but we we got through it yeah together and um yeah and I would say that was pretty stressful like I couldn't just give her Haribo and make her happy yeah you know I think I think that's to be acknowledged and and and also the world is small when they're little and you have control you can see that pond they're in but when they were teenagers you're like i don't know who they're talking to or yeah you know what influences they get and and um yeah we can just all we can do is kind of try and provide a safe base i think there's a lady called dr tara porter have you heard her she's got a book good enough and about good enough parenting it's quite good because it gets you off the hook from you don't have to be brilliant parent basically thank god i know yeah but that she's has some really there's a bit in there it talks about that your whole job really the parent is to prepare them to leave and to be okay yeah and I keep thinking about it because some that's the difference like suddenly nearly 15 you're like oh it potentially must have gone in not that long and that's my job is to make sure he can go okay not to hold on to him desperately because I think that's the other thing if you haven't got a life of your own and you've and you've become such a mum that that's your thing yeah that could be really tricky when they're gonna go yeah i think yeah i think i'm struggling with that a bit but i think pete is definitely like every time a house comes up for sale on our street he goes we should buy that house we should buy that house and put the kids in it and then the kids can live in it and oh and i'm like yeah like like like it'll be like three and a half men not want to live there they might not want to live there and also where's this fucking money for the spare house where are you hiding you haven't got money for a spare house No, apparently he has.

17:22Maybe he's one of these men who's squirreling it away. Yeah, I'd love to buy another house. I wouldn't actually probably spend it on a holiday. But, yeah, but I think, how's Doug Duggas? Is he just like, get these fuggies out of my house? No, God. Like, so Frank's got really into Lego and it's fucking everywhere. And he's got into Star Wars Lego, so it's big as well. Oh, yeah. Big but fiddly. Big but fiddly. It's a lightsaber. and you can't Yoda's ears and it doesn't move very easily it's all over the floor and so he's got basically half the lounge is just all this Lego and I keep going like can we just put it away and he's like but it won't be long before it's not there anymore so he's definitely feeling that and I'm like oh god but it really is messy but my hair I mean I've given up because there's three of them and listen even Marie Kondo's given up Marie Kondo cannot because she had kids and then gave up yeah she came back to die funny years ago just like fuck this shit it's too hard uh so you know if she can't fine she can't do it no what chance do you have well Stephanie yeah it's just chaos our house I have just got a slow cooker oh don't change it years after everyone else have you got a chili on now oh my god let's go it's a gift that keeps on giving how how smug do you feel when you come back and you go a salted stew just waiting I mean bust is like everything's a bit wet like you can't really have crisp there's not much crispiness no to it it kind of but but a meal is made eight hours before and you eat it eight hours later that's where i like airplane food so much actually do like airplane food i love airplane food i love the little everything about it oh i hear it i love a little a little like sweaty sausage yeah and and and scrambled eggs in the shape of a square even the strange little bread rolls uh oh yeah it's stale and too sweet like really yeah you get the we get the butter put it in yeah nice with your plastic fork breaks i like the stews are quite like i'll often ask for an extra beef or a chicken stew that's on the go but yeah oh yeah they've got fucking loads up i like i like the noodles because usually i'm on like an asian airline going off to um australia really very very good very very strong yeah yeah love an airline food also often when you're going on a flight like that the effort that it takes to get on the fucking flight if someone brings you food you're fucking grateful you like that's what i like about it someone's bringing me a meal and they'll take you away again that's tiny tiny little juice yeah also because i know you're afraid of flying for you you might be you're sitting there going this might be my last meal might as well enjoy it i I know, but a strange thing happened after I got divorced is I got less scared.

20:10Mm, yeah. So now I don't think about death as much on planes. Like I've noticed. I've checked in with myself and also. That's because you're half PR. Yeah. I think my nervous system, like I think with someone who made you feel frightened for 22 years, did have quite a profound effect. It worked, yeah. It worked, yeah. Still in me. but like when we went to nepal um the second time went to everest yeah i'm noted i was far less scared like was that nothing to do with the valium you took on the flight i had one valium no no that i mean that's true that's true i did have valium we were going to the world's most dangerous airport in a tiny plane i think the valium was a good idea for everybody but yes i i yeah i think going through a hard awful thing um has made me less scared which is good it's good and then also not being with a bastard i think when you're really when well if the worst thing happens uh like and it's not the same thing but with where i felt quite anxious in the last couple of years i had moments where i was like i need to know that we can just jack everything in yeah and we'll be okay like i can't if i can't do this anymore or i don't know something goes horribly wrong i need to know that we've got you me and the kids we'll go and live in a flat i mean and doug was like well that's not gonna happen i was like no no but i just need to know yeah say the words that that yeah but i think at the stage of life that we're at there's so much going on with families and parents and kids and work and blah blah blah yeah i think yeah that it's it is it's hard it's quite stressful yeah what are we the sandwich generation at the moment because we've got like our hormonal yeah door chuck that in yeah yeah that just made my anxiety and all sorts yeah it's not sleeping oh no and off the beard you know so i know i've just chopped all my hair off because it went so dry yeah is that relates i'm basically woesel gummage if i don't put olive oil in it mine's falling out like when i shower it like come on in great clump yeah And it used to do that when I was pregnant, I remember, but then like...

22:19Knocked out. It grew. Oh, that's jolly. Anyway, speaking of celebrating things, right, what are you looking forward to in the New Year's? Let's do New Year's. Let's do New Year's. Okay, so... Hey. Now. So this podcast is supposed to go out on the 30th of December, all being well. Obviously, if something goes wrong in front of us dies, for example, it might be a bit weird to put it out then. But let's assume... In memoriam. Yes. This is how you want to be. Do you remember? Do you want your last words to be talking about? In Twickenham. R.I.P. I'm sort of hesitant to say this, but what are you looking forward to next year?

22:58Because I asked you that once on a podcast before, Stephanie. I think we were talking about what were we looking forward to. And I said, I'd like to be at home more. You know, we're on tour a lot and I like being on tour. It's brilliant. I like my job, but I also just, I'd like to just be at home and be cosy. and we recorded that podcast in late 2019 and then i know foreshadowing i i caused it i started it i went to wuhan i smashed open that cage with them bats in and then here we are yeah so uh that's that's what happened so but what what are you hoping for in 20 god or do you are you one of these people who i don't do new year's resolutions i'm not a massive new year's resolution person but I think the last couple of years I have been quite miserable just to lighten the mood you know I found it I found it hard like I think I've I've never had anxiety and I have had and like and sort of panic attacky all those things and so I've spent a lot of the last year going like what do I like making my world a bit smaller because it's like I can't cope with I clearly can't cope with all of this stuff so if I can just focus on for me it really it's been like the kids and work it was I can't also think about being really social or having loads of fun so it's like okay let's narrow it down but I feel like this hopefully 2026 is like marking a big massive change for me with the business um and also the kids being older so I'm hoping that they can start to bring back a bit more of the fun stuff that's what I would like but also to just not feel stressed and anxious like I have done so what do you think has been the cause of that is it hormonal stuff is it family stuff is it work or is it is it the as you say the sort of smorgasbord of low-level sort of difficult slash miserable things that many of us are dealing with I think it's all of that but also with the business like financial stress which I've never really had that was it's been really tough because it's like I'm responsible for a team of people we had to rack up some debt to to keep it going and then you kind of spy in a spiral and also I don't have experience of what to do you know how to run a business so there's definitely things I would do differently but yeah it just was like but I but at that point it's like I can't just stop I couldn't stop because one I had a team of people but also we had money that we owed so but yeah at one point I like I went to net I had a couple of times I went to netball which used to be a real fun thing that was like uh because it was such a distraction from life and kids and stuff so it was just really fun and then I started to get really panicky whilst playing and I had to just leave like because I'm just going to start crying and this is all and I think and and I've never experienced that before so I think that's just been really tough but actually it has given me a better understanding you know when other people have talked about having anxiety or feeling depressed I've never really probably understood and now I do but and and like Doug's been really good so he's had to be and it's not always been easy probably not always a joy to live with would you believe um so I think I feel like but I think loads of people are in the same thing and I think that's what's really hard as well we're all just like spinning along madly so then you might say to somebody I'm actually really struggling and they don't everybody's struggling to a point so you kind of have to figure quite a lot of it out yourself like you've obviously have people around you who are brilliant and supportive but you also have to work out how to get yourself out of it because everybody has got their own shit going on like we've all got stuff going on with family or with kids or so you can't just expect everyone to gather around we're not free like we were in our 20s when someone was having a drama and then you like how long's passed since we got together and you go that's quite a lot of stuff to catch up on yeah and it's sort of telling like we as friends have been seeing each other i don't know i can't even remember how long it's been but it's not that the want wasn't there no it's just that we've got i mean i didn't want to see you but this i'm only here because we needed to record a podcast well we are doing a series of shows we're tricking a millie i think you're fine um but yeah but that's i think it's okay you have good friends yeah you've got the foundation you know that you can go and then you get together and you'll catch up on this shit and you'll go i'm sorry that that's been happening to each other and and it's okay yeah you're not going to give each other a hard time no about it and equally you know what you can give more and you can't give more like there's different time that's that that's the stage where i think there's different points where you can be really giving and helpful for other people and there's times where you just don't have it in you yeah and it's okay to just be like i'm not around ellie's very good at this metaphor of the hobs oh so you've got four burning hobs right and you can only have four things on the hob at one time you can only keep four things for yeah like was it family work friends and something yeah i think that if you've got kids you've always got something on one of the bubbling yeah you've always got yeah it's a question of whether it's simmering or boiling depending on what stage you're at and what how your week's gone but you've always got so you've lost a hob for i mean you know you've gained a soup but you've lost there this is taking it really far no no i'm with you i'm ready keep going keep going there's some gains but then you've only got a limited number of other hobs so you've you know you might want to do work and fitness and yeah healthy diet and you know relationships sex friendships parents and i think you just i find that i'm just constantly moving saucepans on and off my yeah yeah i can't do fitness at the moment because of my knee and i'm feeling that a bit yeah so i have to just sort of you know i miss exercise i miss the feeding exercise gives you and i actually missed it yes i'm not a fucking idiot but i miss like that mean on your hobs you've turned up the heat on the sex one what with a knee that i can't move yeah that's right you'd be able to find a way around that so yeah i think yeah hobs it's and also just to throw another metaphor in it's a bit like your kitchen table you know sometimes you just got to clear a bit of space to do a new thing so you've got you did the school newsletters and and you know your work and all that sort of stuff it's it does feel a bit like that at times yeah i can't see the friends right now i can't you know i've just got to hunker down because I just got to get through I'm just going to get through this whereas probably 10 years ago you would well when the kids were small probably you kept adding things in yeah and then be like I feel completely unstable yeah absolutely and there's something that I've come to learn and only through going through all this hellscape is that the end goal isn't to be as busy as possible no and how I used to measure success would be how many you know events I'm going to yeah how many drinks I've had you know how many new clothes or all these external things when actually the prize is the piece it's like to actually have some time to have a bath like finish a whole book they feel like the prizes now so far yeah yeah friend as you would say jack of potato yeah oh yeah yeah so that I mean you know you can't just have you can't have all of everything but that just feels like the prize now just to have just feel it's because we've got older do you think yeah yeah yeah for sure sure i need more time to deal with my facial hair my aches and pains all the things yeah yeah that's my focus so you've been through this difficult time what has how have you managed to come through the other side have you got any advice or things that you know now that you didn't know a few years ago i think i think pulling back I know you said about the Hobbes, but yeah, you can't just keep adding to it.

30:55And if suddenly you've got extra worries about one of them, you can't just put more things in and expect everything to be okay. So if you're feeling that, I think you have to take stuff out. And also you can, without sounding really cheesy, but you can ask for help in that if someone's saying, we would offer to say, oh, can I bring you some food? Can I do that? We would offer to help each other and our friends all the time. and I think often you kind of go no it's fine because it feels easier in a way to just go no it's fine I'll battle on and we're used to doing that or we think we should be able to cope or something and actually when you let somebody like so I've got a really good mate Kelly well I think you guys met and she's got three kids and she's a single mum she's had my kids before and there's a bit of me that's like I don't know this is very fair but our kids are really good mates we'll be on holiday together but we help each other so with lifts or it but it's almost like it is almost like a family member where you have that transition of it's not like I'm going oh would you mind or could you you just know that they will happily help you or they'll say no if they can't yeah but she would turn up and just be like I've made you a pot of this thing to have for breakfast and it's like got loads of nutrients in or whatever yeah so those sorts of things when someone's helping you like that letting people yeah and knowing that you will do the same back like you're not unless you're a shitty person you're going to do it when you have that capacity you will do it back and I would and I do but I just had to remove myself from a few things for a while and yeah to focus on the things I know are really really important which is to make sure I stayed married and that we were okay and and the kids and I and I had to stay focused on work as well so that's where I've kind of been but I think you also have one yeah finding people that that will understand it and be able to say sometimes people going it's going to be okay isn't that helpful when you don't feel like it is so so for me it was like saying if we have to move into a one bedroom flat and and that's I just needed to almost go like if the worst things happen are we going to be okay we can survive and it was like yeah so almost pairing it right back yeah and we did and we have so yeah and i think i that's been a thing for me recently what you just said there about i've because i like many of us find it sometimes hard to accept help and to cut a long story short i had partial knee replacement it's gone a bit wrong i should be better by now but i'm i'm not and i'm in pain some of the time and i can't do heavy lifting and things like that i can do the show but often i'm in quite a lot pain after the show and it's difficult and um i'm not supposed to lift boxes so helen and our radio whoever it might be that has to do all of the hauling in and out of the van which is a lot of work and the theatre staff are usually lovely and help us but i find i found it really hard at first to sort of stand there and watch people do this work um and guilty unless i was in like real severe pain in that moment i'd be like no i'm gonna i'm gonna help and then i'd pay for it yeah the show and how i've managed to get what's really helped me in those moments is going helen would do the same or going i would do the same well that's done as well you've you've been an amazing friend to helen through shitty things some would say even more of an amazing friend Stephanie yeah i've told me it all the time like about that so you're just that's what that's what i mean it's like yeah you have your mind we're all hopefully going to be alive for a long time so everyone's gonna have moments where they need to rely on other people yeah i've just sat to think to myself i would absolutely do this for helen and i wouldn't be secretly resenting it or thinking oh you're weak or you're why aren't you helping or you know no and even with strangers i've had to i find it easier to turn up with my crutch and explain to the staff look this has happened this is why I'm thank you for helping with the thing and this is why I can't do it and of course they're universally like of course don't worry about it again you know no problem so we've been there we've all we've all been that person who's had to ask you think that's the difference as well because we are now in our 40s so we we've lived that much longer that chances are you have had a tough time with something and some point like it all multiple and it is uncomfortable and it is really confronting because you want to be capable you want to be in charge and not having that is really difficult and asking for absolutely but no it's a joy and but also i get so much from caring for ellie i get so much like that was like to make sure you're right no but but it's like what brene brown said marriage is very rarely 50 50 yeah and and you know if it's 70 30 for a little bit that's fine because it was fucking 90 10 maybe 95 5 for a while 99 um early one percent me and that's that i still feel i've got it yeah yeah yeah and that's i think that's when you know you've got the right partner whether that's a friend or a husband or whoever like doug's and he'll be like you have been quite hard working but but then but then I've had like in the summer because there was lots going on with this deal and it was like I think and and also we've massively improved the business as well in that time and things have turned around so it's like I started to feel like I could breathe again and and so and it was it's almost more when it I'm sure you both had it was almost more when life feels normal or you laugh at something and it comes really naturally you're like oh I've been really sad yeah because you can feel it you're properly feeling it yeah oh this is what it's meant to be like and I can enjoy this thing for what it is yeah I know yeah that's I think that's a sign of getting the peace I remember interviewing yeah Laura Docbrall you know who did postnatal psychosis and I said when did you know you were better she said when I could just sit with a friend and laugh with my head back and not overthink anything and not having those thoughts of always they ever just purely being in the moment yeah and i think that's because you that's what you feel like when you're on stress you're like everything's going but if you're not really there no i felt like a lot of the time the last couple i'm just not really there i'm sort of there but it feels like everyone else is moving around you and they are all having fun and you're like why am i not feeling any of these things it's a bit like that oh well there you go but you're better now but i'm all right okay great yeah good take me for lunch yes okay come on so there we go uh that's that's our advice in a nutshell isn't it and you know don't be afraid to ask for help and accept how uh because not all people are bastards except for david harbour and helen's ex-husband but yeah yeah story for another time uh let's do scummy mummy confessions excellent who wants to go first anyone do you want me to go first go on okay so i was trying to think of saying scummy because i've got loads of like useless mum confessions like sending frank in on days when they're meant to be in fancy dress and he's not in fancy dress and only realizing at pickup when he's the only kid in his uniform and everyone else is dressed like a tree oh what there's a tree day i don't know yeah i went in at pickup and someone on the gate said oh you've you've dressed up today because i had a green coat on and i was and it still didn't click it wasn't like i went oh fuck i've forgotten the debt it still didn't click like it totally passed me by and then i went in and everyone's dressed in brown and green and then we'll dress but frank's not but he's such a love that he's just like oh he doesn't he doesn't care he doesn't care which makes me feel even worse but my scummy confession i thought it has to involve bodily fluids which this kind of does yeah which i don't see as much of now because of not having small kids but when we came back from we went to France in the summer and we came back via Santander on the ferry and I was like well this would be a little taster for what a cruise might be like it's with the overnight ferry and um they made the announcement to say like oh you've got to go and go and get your stuff out of your cabins and we go down to your car and I was like oh we should really have had sex on the ferry so and we had two cabins one for the kids and one for us so they're making the announcement like you've got to get off and i was like well i'm never going to join them on high clubs i just don't think i yeah i'm unlikely so we had sex but you're going to join the poor fathom's deep club or whatever yeah so we had sex on the phone but the thing is one of the kids came knocked on the door and was like oh we've got to go away yeah yeah just just go back to where i am we'll be there and we'll meet you at the master station yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah so i had sex on a ferry.

39:35Oh, they're so good. It's a bad girl. It's a bit stummy because the kids are like, haven't we got to get off the boat? Not yet. We're fine. We're fine. They'll wait. They'll wait. In a minute. I don't think I've ever had sex on a ferry or even a boat. Sex on the tube. Sex on the tube. Wait. How? Well, what happens is when a man and lady love each other and they love each other very much. It's perhaps a story. There's windows everywhere. It was a long time ago before cctv it's perhaps a story for lunch right now yeah rather than something my children might listen to in 10 years yeah okay fine uh but uh trains and automobiles yeah exactly yeah uh don't know waterbed anyway uh that's it again um uh my scummy mummy confession is i've let my 10 year old watch too much seinfeld oh and he's neurodiverse so he tends to absorb things like so we're saying too easily he's now and i shouldn't watch seinfeld anyway there's lots of sex chat in it oh yeah you know it's quite adult really but he likes it he likes it and so now it's like i'm living with a mini like southeast london jerry seinfeld so you'll walk into the kitchen and like you'll go oh morning joe have you got some you got a snack there and then i'd like one of them you know like derrily dunkers but like cheap little version tip and munch yeah go dip and munch what's that about and you're like oh god they'll be like dip and munch why not munch and dip and then maybe audi would set a munch and dip and then it's like a whole thing just like who are you who are you but it's good telly there's what they're watching good telly it's good telly and he he's decided now maybe he wants to be a stand-up comedian so really well yeah but last week he wanted to be a fucking baker i mean you know it might it might all go but it could be a third generation now that they handing it down oh my god yeah because the big one no interest absolutely couldn't get him on a stage if you paid him so yeah who knows that's very good thorn do you have a confession oh yes um a waxing confession actually went in went in for the lady foof you know pre went away for a lovely weekend from her birthday to pride i thought oh oh, you know, trim the sides sort of thing.

41:52Turned out to be quite a thorough investigation. Was there a party? Yeah, yep, yep, yep. You got out this trimmer. She was ever so, what's the word, detailed. And she plucked hairs from areas I would... Plucked? Yeah. So I did the wax and then she went back with like a microscope, a binoculars. Yes. You know, the light with the... With the head top. No, what, magnifying glass and some tweezers. No. Yes. I thought a couple of hairs around there is fine. Yeah. Absolutely fine. A magnifying glass. Well, you know, it's like a light with a magnifying glass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, see. Well, you're lucky it wasn't a sunny day.

42:41That could have gone very badly wrong. Yes, yes. Could have singed the minge. Oh, wow. Isn't that quite gratifying that she needed a... Like, the hairs are so small, she needed a magnifying glass. Yes, very thorough. I haven't found someone that close. She must have had to be quite close with the face. Yes, like a detective. Maybe she thought there'd been a murder in there. Yes, yes, I know. But, yes, but my downstairs, very grey. I've gone Gandalf. Oh, no, and it's smirly and... Thou shall not pass.

43:16It's very good. oh yes i know i'm can you die pubic i i feel like that's don't bother i don't think you need to don't looks like some sort of pigeon now oh well on that bombshell yeah yes yeah well we've covered everything really yeah we know yes if you've just joined us listen i've filled um helen's minge now looks like ian mckellen that's where we are um but yes uh now uh come and see our comedy show great yeah not you you're in it well it'd be good if i um came fucking massive tour of 2026 ellie yes um check website uh check website check website for details www.com indeed scummymummies.com forward slash live hyphen show we should do these adverts now like my like those adverts my mother sends me for terrible um medicine on facebook yeah made up things that ai do like did you know you've got 10 kilos of excess body fat that you could take three tablets and you'll pull it out in two days yes exactly um so yes come to see our show now scummy mummies.com um uh steph do you want people to buy your flowers?

44:35Come to don'tbuyherflowers.com for amazingly thoughtful gifts. And now flowers. And flowers. Oh, not on, no, not on, no, so don't buy her flowers will be don't buy her flowers and then they have a florist and there will be gifts on there. Do buy her flowers, yeah. Flowers and presents and giant chocolate buns. Anyway, yeah. Very good. Oh, thank you, Stephanie. It's so nice to see you both. So good to have you back. Lovely. It's always lovely to have you with us, stephanie thank you for joining us and thank you so much for listening until next time bye but anyway but you interviewed mary berry's daughter yeah that was the connection she's very nice great great story thank you for sharing that top celebrity anecdote sophie Ella Spexter.

45:29Close personal friends. Yeah, you're in. You're in. And you did it for her book launch. I'm sorry, her record launch. Her vinyl LP launch. Yeah. Vinyl LP? Yeah. She's never doing another album? Are you announcing that exclusively on the podcast? Sophie Ella Spexter's retiring from music. No. Vinyl LP. Oh, vinyl. You need your ears checked. I thought you said vinyl. No, vinyl. This is a glimpse of what things could look like. What? Who? Vinyl? I'm literally sitting between these two going, hey, what?