327: Tim Dowling on marriage, ageing, WhatsApp and goose barnacles

0:03Hello scumbags, this is the Scummy Mummies Podcast. with your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne.

0:16Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummy's podcast. I'm Ellie Gibson. I'm Helen Thorne. And who's our guest today, Helen? It's Tim Dowling off of The Guardian. Tim Dowling off of The Guardian, the very one. He's come back. Welcome back to the podcast, Tim. Thank you for having me back ten years later. Exactly. well we wanted to give you a chance to develop some more amusing anecdotes have you been working on that i wish you'd said something um yeah i'm sorry first of all i need to apologize so since you were here that the lounge has had a bit of an upgrade of replaced the um you probably won't remember the horrible chocolate brown leather sofa uh with a nice velvet one as is the custom for 2025 um but we are sort of sitting in semi-darkness because my husband has broken the lamp so blame him not me have you ever broken one of your wife's lamps uh yep i certainly have many many times what is wrong with you people why do you keep breaking your wife's lamp honestly we thought it's what you would have wanted so there we are we've already begun by having a go at tim and making him feel bad for something he hasn't even done uh but we're off to a flying start i mean how would you describe yourself with the listener maybe who hasn't listened to all 323 other episodes of the podcast including yours Why don't you introduce yourself, Tim Dowling?

1:34My name is Tim Dowling. I'm a Guardian writer. I sometimes like to think of myself as Britain's favourite non-award winning columnist. Potentially award winning columnist. Because I think there are people who are, you know, bigger favourites, but I think they've all won awards. This is where you need Helen's positivity in your life. Because what do you like to say when we're writing comedy, Helen? Every time we start a new show, I say, this is potentially award winning comedy. Like, I can feel it. This is potentially. And what do you say, Ellie? I say all comedy is potentially award-winning in the same way all men are potentially serial killers.

2:08Like that's how we have to live our lives, isn't it? Yes. I always start a column thinking this is the one that could get me sacked.

2:17How long have you been doing your column now? I don't like to say. I started in 2007. Right. Wow, 18 years. 18 years. Wow. You know, there are people there who, you know, the people at The Guardian who were children when I started. Yeah, yeah. I think they would sack me if they realised that I've been there that long. So you even get paid or do you just turn in copy every week and they print it? Would you mind terribly running this in your newspaper? That's amazing. And it's an amazing feat. I've been briefly a columnist about video games. I was a video games journalist. And I have to say, I found it really, really hard.

2:51Like I'd have some brilliant ideas for the first two or three columns. And then it would be like, right, it's week four. Or I've got no opinions about video games or thoughts about anything at all. No. How do you do it? Well, the first, by the third one, I was out of ideas. Absolutely. And when I got, I took over this page from someone else, from John Ronson, actually. And the editor sent me an email saying, I don't want you to feel you have to write about your own life. And I thought, I couldn't tell whether that was like an instruction. Like nobody wants to hear about your life. Or, you know, don't torture yourself by writing about your own life.

3:21Or ruin your life by writing about your own life. So I decided, I panicked and wrote one about the cat and the dog following me around the house. First one. And I thought, I'm going to get sacked after week one. Doing what she said, don't do. And then I did another one, which was kind of like a sort of, you know, it was like a comedy column, but it wasn't about me. It was a sort of pastiche of something else. And then I was out of ideas. Yeah. And I got knocked off my bike by a taxi. And I thought, that's perfect. That's great. And by the end, I was just kind of in a panic. I would write about my own life because I couldn't think of anything else.

3:48and the next time I thought of a good idea that wasn't about me, I got the only other email I got that year that just said, what happened to the funny wife? We like the funny wife. Hey, well, my wife. Yes. Where's Ellie? I've done too many stories on social media. Like, is Ellie okay? I'm like, am I not enough? Am I not enough? What I like, though, about that story is, so you've got this instruction and then you sort of mentally queried it, but then rather than writing back to the person and saying, can I just clarify what you meant by that and what you'd like, you just decided, no, I'm just going to plough on in one direction, hope it's the right one and hope I don't get fired.

4:25You truly are a British man. Truly assimilated. Yeah, I have a passport now and everything. That is actually, that is what the citizenship test should be. I did send an email, but it just said, okay, thanks.

4:41See, that's Britishness, isn't it? It's peak, Helen. Oh my God. It's so funny. You mentioned the citizenship thing. I was going through some old boxes on the weekend trying to throw things out, but I didn't throw anything out. I found my Citizen in the UK. A book, Life in the UK Test. Yes, yes. And it was like from 2010 or something. And my kids were like, no, you can't throw it out. Like, this is precious. Like, you see, I'm like, we can. It might not be true anymore. I think things have moved on a bit. Britain looks different now. But yeah, so you did that Life in the UK test. Yep. When did you do it?

5:14Not that long ago. I think it was a little over a year ago, maybe two years ago. But then I finally, it takes so long for everything to happen. Oh, it's bullshit, isn't it? What a scam it is. Oh, no, so much money. I know. It was, I remember studying for it when my child, my second baby was very little and I didn't have much brain capacity. But I do remember, yeah, just sitting in a tiny little scratchy little office in Lewisham doing my yes or, you know. Yeah, I did mine at the Iranian centre in Hammersmith. Yeah. I don't think they do any Iranian things there anymore. I think they're just 24-7.

5:46It's people taking the life of the UK test. Yeah. And you knew if you passed a lot, they read out names and they told people, the people whose names were read out got asked to leave the room. And we, publicly? Yeah. That's so nerve wracking. Yeah. And there's like, you know, they let it, and then they left the room and they said, well, you guys have all passed. They go down a chute that has a, there's a tunnel. There's a tunnel straight back to Australia. And it just, they come out the other end and they're in Sydney. Now you just get a text. Oh, that's more nice. Yeah, I got the text before I left the place.

6:23Oh, that's cool. Anyway, sorry, I sidetracked. No, no, no. So you mentioned your wife there. I will say, Tim, so just before we start recording, Tim, I played you a video of me talking to my dad this morning because I told him you were coming on the podcast. And he's a big fan. And then he started talking about your snake or something. I stopped listening. And also, yeah, and then he gave me a lift somewhere and he was saying, oh, no, maybe I'll pop in and see him. I was like, OK. He may or may not. Hang on, I think he will. But he said, yeah, I'm a big fan of Tim Dowling. Your mother's not so sure.

6:59She feels sorry for his wife. And I said, I don't really know what to do with that, Dad. Probably I'll just tell Tim Dowling. And he said, well, their relationship is quite flinty, isn't it? It is quite flinty. Do you think flinty is an accurate word? That's very, very good, yeah. I think my aim is to make people feel sorry for my wife. If they feel sorry for me, I've done it wrong somehow. How long have you been married? 30, I want to say 33 magical years. Wow, 33 flinty years. Flinty years. Wow. So what is the secret to a long marriage apart from, you know, not fucking a 25-year-old mate of classes?

7:41Sorry, I've been listening. finish it to that Liliana now for me can't stop listening to it so good isn't it well there is that obviously I don't know I mean I think weirdly because because of the column I get asked to interview a lot of people who do marriage counselling right and at one point we were sent to marriage counselling for like a feature I remember reading that so it's like and it's a good way to convince your wife to go to marriage counselling out of out of the middle of nowhere it's just for an article it's just for an article yeah yeah yeah just for work we can die and everything yeah yeah yeah so next week I've got to write an article about a swingers party it's just for work you don't have to come to that one it's more of a work thing yeah sex dungeons what's that about that's 500 words no problem so how was that it was fine I mean you sort of feel in one sense it's absolutely devastating you come out of the first one thinking oh my god we're so messed up and then you and then you sort of think it's fine after a while and you think it's very hard to sort of have things you do wrong in your marriage pointed out to you by a professional and then just go home and carry on doing them it feels foolish I I think you said something similar to that on the the last time you were here because it really stuck with me you said yes like if if you if you are told that something is annoying or upsetting and you continue to do it then you just feel like a wanker basically and I was like yeah because you're a wanker and I've actually quoted you at my husband in arguments.

9:10I'm going to say about once every 18 months. Since I said that. One wise thing. Thank you, Tim. The only wise thing I know, and that's why I repeat it on every podcast. I get one. Including yours twice now. Yeah, no, but listen, it's great wisdom. I think it's a good rule for life, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Isn't that the, you know, the definition of stupidity about doing the same thing over and over and expecting, like saying the same thing on a podcast 10 years later i didn't remember i'm joking i'm joking no i only remember i don't remember what i said on the podcast we recorded last month i only remember it seriously because it really stuck with me as a really good way a really interesting thing and actually if i'm being honest to look at my own behavior as well if i'm told repeatedly that that's the wrong way to load the dishwasher why don't i just leave it and let him fucking do it That's the learning I've taken from that.

10:03And you're still married, which is wonderful. So, legally bound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, officially. So, how old are your boys now? What era of parenting are you in? Well, the sort of era of unsolicited advice. Oh, nice, that they know more. They know more and they don't listen to a thing I say. They are, the oldest one is 30. Wow. 30, and then I want to say 27 and 26, yeah. Yeah, in that late ways era. Yeah. They've done uni. They all did uni. They've all got jobs. And two of them are at home. Oh, it's... Oh, oh. Having left. Having left? Oh, they came back. If I could warn you about one thing about the future, they will come back.

10:49So you can't put a rowing machine in their bedroom or anything. Oh, man. Fuck. I've got these great... So my kids... I've got four years left of them at high school. Right. So I'm like, right, I'm going to Airbnb the house. I'm going to travel the world. You know, this is fucking, yes, I can see the light. Maybe not. I think it's just part of it is London. You know, they move out. And then when the lease runs out, you can't just find a new place. No. You're basically battling for the opportunity to pay extortionate rent to someone. It is pretty awful, isn't it? So they come back home in between all the time.

11:22So how old are the kids you've got at home now? 30. 30. It's a grown man. Yeah. 30 and 27 so they're the ones home and the youngest one lives around the corner but he's you know he's fine what's that like is it like living with flatmates or is it still a is it still a parent child dynamic or i'm trying to there's there's yeah i mean my wife came we were going out to lunch yesterday we're going for a walk and then lunch with people she my wife said and i would like this kitchen to be in the same state that i'm leaving it in right now and then she went started going on and on and the oldest one's girlfriend was there and so she was going on no matter how they never do anything and could they do this with it you know when you take out the bins and you take when you put a new bag in the bin liner and on and on and on the oldest one just looks at you have fun at your thing that's now yes okay you're done you're done you've said what you want yeah okay the other thing is obviously that in these days that generation um only goes into the office two days a week at most oh god you know so they're working in the kitchen yeah with sort of power cords strung everywhere across from each other like colleagues you know across each other with cups of coffee going what are you doing i'm actually playing a video game so you've got like a mini we work yeah and they're sort of you see them sort of god playing chess in the corner of the screen and there's a zoom meeting going on over here with their face on mute yeah because so we talk about it a lot don't we and pete and i talk so my boys are 14 and 10 so we'll be like perhaps we shall go to venice for a winter perhaps we shall winter in venice and uh you know and i just think is that not realistic well the good thing about having them home is there's someone to look after the dog and the cat right yes so and like if the if the roof springs a leak or the boiler explodes there's someone who's grown up enough to deal allegedly grown up enough to deal with it yeah sometimes you just get a text go the water's pouring into the Dublin.

13:20Yeah. I think my, I think my, I think my room's on fire. Mom. Should I do anything? Should I call anyone? Yes, you should. Yeah. Cause now, I mean, this thing is all people go, we go on holiday in the first week in October. Right. Oh, you get to the airport and everyone is your age. Yeah. Everyone is over 60 and they're all just having the time of their lives. Cause they go, you go to these resorts that are completely empty. See, this is what I'm hanging on to. So you're 62, is that right? I'm 62, yeah. It's good for 62, doesn't it? Keir Starmer! Better than Keir Starmer. Not enough people say that.

13:58Yes! We were once drunk in a hotel bar. So drunk! I can't remember which one of us pointed out that Keir Starmer was 64 and we spent about an hour going, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. He's 62 and he was born in 62. Oh, that's right. And it blew my mind. Now he's 63? Yes! Next year, I'll be 63 and I was born in 63. Oh! I love the first... This is wonderful. So magical. So magical. Because I think the 60s, people took, you know, the 40s. The 40s are still mucky because you've got teenagers and hormones and parents. Allegedly, the lowest point of view is sort of on the happiness scale as well.

14:39It's true. I feel insane. Yeah, I think I'm the most insane. Like there's really, really good bits, but also bits that are just chaotic and uncertain. I reckon the 60s is where it's sort of. Oh, you think, yeah, you think it's going to be terrible. You know, the whole run up to the 60s, you think I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be unhealthy and I'm going to be. Things are falling off. Hired all the time and I'm never going to have fun anymore because I was just going to go to bed so early and the icy hand of death is going to be on my shoulder for the rest of this. I feel like that now.

15:08Yeah. What really happens is they give you a free oyster cart. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And you just, everyone, secretly, everyone's going, aren't they great? Yeah. These are so great. And then you meet people over 60 and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm not paying either. Shazam! And if you get to the gates before 9am and they don't let you in, you just erupt in fury. Who do you think I am? I'm a businessman. I'm not retired. I need to go somewhere. My dad likes to sit down with his computer or a map and work out what's the furthest he can go. Just because it's free. Making a profit. Yes. Can I get to Dover?

15:44Possibly even to Cali. The truth is, I've fanned out the hard way, you can't get to Gatwick on it. Yeah. Oh, that's annoying. They sort of threatened to arrest me. You're not going to. Look at me. Go on, though. Put me in the clipping. It's terrible for you to arrest me here. See, I like that. I like to know that there's like the promised land ahead, you know, because at the moment, Ellie and I have got teenagers. We've got boys who've just started GCSEs, which, you know, that's a big thing. They've started to really smell, like really really smell we're in like this sort of foggy stick haze all the time and can't really understand what they're saying um and but then they're adorable they're also yeah still a bit squishy and still cute and and lovely so funny they're always so funny and then you have those magical moments of connection when you like the same telly yeah oh me and charlie uh just last night we were watching secret lives of mormon wives i think he's only watching it so he doesn't enough to go to bed but oh my god it's taking in oh it's lovely oh it's a good time we watched midnight in paris last night you know the owen wilson film where he goes back in time oh thank god for a minute i was thinking of last tango in paris it's quite a different film and not one i've watched of myself technically i think that whole movie's been cancelled you didn't watch it with anyone was that the one you told me about with butter yes oh yes i've never seen it i don't want to yeah they did my thing no they did they did a remake with i can't believe it's not butter but i don't think it was with owen wilson so are we gigging now you guys um we just don't stop gigging we haven't stopped for 12 years sort of endless tour yeah yeah we have the school holidays off so we in fact we've got about a month off over christmas haven't we which is marvelous uh and good because i've got to have my knee re-operated on which means someone else is cooking the christmas dinner oh very exciting who cooks the dinner in who does christmas in your house i cook everything now it's such i never really realized what a sort of arse grinding horrible chore cooking is until i started doing it full time my wife just like think when they were all at university she just said from now on i'm never cooking again right and she meant it she never cooked again and so i sort of picked up the slack and started doing it but doing it every day is a drag.

18:05Is it the mental thing of having to think of something? It's just having to think, yeah, what to make. And also then the whole chore of having to learn to cook for two people. To do a different day. For five people. And now the chore of learning how to cook for, I have no idea how many people are going to be here tonight. And it's like, they just, you know, are you in for dinner? There's this other rule my wife made. If you're in for dinner, you have to say so on the are you in for dinner WhatsApp group by midday or you don't get any. But nobody takes any notice of that. No, why would they? Because they're still going to eat regardless of whether they...

18:35They go upstairs to their bedrooms and they're like, I didn't even know you were here. And they just come down and smell the food. This is it. And it's expensive. Like, you know, yeah, cooking for two rather than five. It's just a completely different thing. It's like, well, that's just two chicken breasts, isn't it? But then with five, how many do you need? And they're big boys and... You need five. You need five. True. They don't sell them in fives. Put the extras in your bra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's them fillets people use. Oh, that's it. Hello, Helen here. As you know, I'm the proud owner of two big cuddly cats called Fozzie and Tigger.

19:05To be honest, I love these fur babies more than my own kids. And well, they're easy to look after, aren't they? They don't leave cereal bowls everywhere. Now, like myself, both cats have gotten a little, well, extra cuddlier over the Christmas period. So we're trying a new cat food called Catkin to help them stay healthy and manage their weight. It's brilliant stuff. It's 100 % real meat. It's fresh from the fridge. And there are no added extras or nasties in there. It's also vet formulated. and made up especially for the weight of your cat. And it comes in seven different varieties. My boys love the chicken and the turkey ones.

19:38My cats have been using it for a few weeks now and I can really see the difference. They're fuller for longer, they're not asking for food all the time and they've got more energy. If you want to give it a try, we've got a special discount code. It's SCUMMYMUMMYS50. That's capital letters and 50-5-0. And that gives you 50 % off your first order. Just go to catkin.com or there's a link in our bio in Instagram and type in the code S-C-U-M-M-Y-M-U-M-M-I-E-S-5-0. Your cats will love it. Give it a try. I like that you've got a separate WhatsApp group. Me and Pete have got, even just between us, we've got about 20 WhatsApp groups.

20:19We've got one for money. We've got one that's just called Boring Admin that is mainly me going, did you pay that check-in? And then going, no, I didn't. you should just call the you should just call the group did you pay that check in did you do the thing it's like it is weird because you yeah you think this specific task we need a subset whatsapp group that only includes the people who are interested in this thing and then what that means in the end is that your phone is basically going off the whole time yeah yeah it's just it's like you know i don't know i'm in i'm on a cricket one i don't know why i'm in it oh for the ashes for the ashes well no it started i think it started the from the ashes before this one right yes um i've never ever said anything on it because i don't know i don't know anything it's you can leave it's not conscription but it says i know i've seen people someone left straight away a bunch of left as soon as it was created and i saw that it says you have left the chat it just feels like you're slamming the door and yeah so you're just lurking you're just in the corner yeah yeah just behind the curtains i don't i rarely know what any of it means plus the ashes happens at four o 'clock in the morning yeah oh don't get at least dad started about this well this is hilarious let's let's get tim downing's applying i think this is what we need so my dad is in a my dad loves cricket and he's in a cricket whatsapp group with all his let's be honest younger friends i mean the man's 78 um so again maths yeah basic maths so he's in this whatsapp group and a lot of these men get up at half two in the morning to watch the ashes whatever the fuck it is i don't know some cricket the cricket the cricket yeah yeah australia um And they like to chat about it on the WhatsApp group.

21:55And then my dad will get up at seven o 'clock to watch and then he'll watch the recorded match. But he's very angry that they've all been talking about it without him. And he's asked them to remain silent and not to talk to each other while he's asleep. And to wait till he wakes up to begin their conversation about the cricket match that has already happened because he doesn't want spoilers. And I've tried saying, well, you could just not look at the WhatsApp group, Dad. That's absolutely not an option. That's, no, no, no. They're doing it wrong. They're doing it wrong. And I did a poll on Instagram about this.

22:38And I think people, quite a lot of people agreed with Dad, actually, that they should hold fire. I mean, honestly. They just like you, Dad. They love you, Dad. Where do you stand, Tim? So I can say, look, Dad, Jim Dowling, of whose work you're a big fan. I've got so many WhatsApp groups. There's this book group WhatsApp. Oh, we have to get into those groups. Which is super annoying if you haven't... Like, I missed book group. And they're just talking about the next day. Or about last night. I'm like, I was very close saying, please don't talk about last night. Because I feel very left out. I wasn't there.

23:09But you can't, can you? No, no. No. So I should have just left the group. Goodbye. I sort of hate WhatsApp. It is incredibly useful. It's a great tool. and also I feel like it occupies so much of my day and I hate the sort of blue ticks thing I hate that like you can't just get a question from someone and go I'll have a think about that or yeah maybe I you know need to work out how to phrase this or whatever or I need to look that up or whatever it is there's I feel this pressure to like oh I've got to reply to them or they'll think I am terrible yeah and of course you can turn the blue ticks off but then you can't see if they've read their message.

23:47And I need to know if they've read my message. Yes, that's it. It's the price I'm willing to pay. Yes, it is. With all these things, whenever I'm told them by one of my children, I'm like, you can? They just, oh, just give me your phone. Because they know I didn't even know how to get into settings or anything. We were talking the other day, we were sitting around with a bunch of old people at lunch. And someone was saying that the young people today really resent you sending them a work-related email on the weekend and that you must schedule send. What? And I was like, first thing I said was schedule send what's that you can huh and then I thought she said you know we were like we don't have to they don't have to look at it now yeah and they don't have to do anything but they go well they'll still see it I said come on I think that's a them problem not a you problem I've had a thought I need to get it out otherwise I thought we'll go we were all saying we'll completely forget to do this we're going to do this while we remember it that's our problem I think and I think that is privilege there we go yeah privilege look we're with a guardian writer let's start talking about privilege because you lot can't write anything without apologizing for you um you lot yeah yeah i've only had a few articles published anyway yeah like i think that is the privilege of people who have a weekend so we have our amazing tour manager and we did have this conversation with her but it's an agreement that she's got two children under five so like and she works from home and sorts out all our shit and i don't give a shit when she does that or when she emails me or even no no but the understanding amongst all of us is that we're mums and sometimes we've got sick children or it's three o 'clock in the morning and we can't sleep because we're parametropausal so we're going to do some admin yeah and that doesn't mean we expect an immediate response surely that's just grown-ups being grown-ups it's always boring it's always stuff like i need your vehicle registration and things like that yeah exactly that is about 50 of our admin vehicle we have so you can park whole whatsapp group just about our van i think the last time i saw you was when you were on tour yeah we yes because we saw you at the deer shed festival it was deer shed that's really really fun i remember because it was all you were dancing around in is it i want to say lame is it yeah yeah yeah god lycra yeah yeah yeah and then you and then all these kind of mums with their daughters kind of sitting you know between their knees and everything yeah yeah and you're taking questions at the end and some little girl raised her hand and she said have you got a battery in you and you said not since university life

26:16and i never forgot that oh it was a different time are you doing are you doing any festivals next summer uh not as yet oh come to camp festival why don't we go to play it we did camp festival's a riot yeah really fun we played a gig there one of our first gigs certainly and we had a substitute bassist, I remember, and we were walking across this field with all our stuff. In the distance was a gazebo, where we were told we were playing that afternoon. And as we're walking there, you hear this kind of strange, there's a band on already, and it's strangely repetitive kind of music. It's almost like a nursery rhyme, you can.

26:56And I was like, well, I had heard that this was a very child-friendly festival, and the guitarist turned around to me and said, this is a children's area. And the whole audience, it turned out we were warming up for the Zingzillas. Oh, they were peaking back then. Yeah, they were huge. That was massive. And so this whole audience of kids in fairy costumes and face paint. Yeah. The first song on the list was called Shitty White Wine. And because we had this kind of, our regular bassist couldn't do it. So the bassist that we brought with us had learned the seven songs we were playing. Yeah. That's it in that order.

27:31And we couldn't deviate. so we launched into it played the whole set and a lot of them were crying at the end but I think they were just tired you know yes overtired this has been overtired just needed a snack but what big festival have you done Tim with police dog Hogan Hogan police dog Hogan police dog Hogan I was going to say Holden but that's that's an Australian that's an Australian car Amanda yes yes yes we played lots of them Glastonbury even did you say on stage Hello Glastonbury. Yeah. Fucking, that's a dream. We probably each took a turn. I just want to do that once, Ellie. You're not allowed.

28:10What did you say this year at Feastable live on stage? Hello Camp Festival. And Alex James was in the tent, which was a shame. We played Crop Ready Festival and we were on just before the beach boards were on. Wow. When he was still alive. Yeah, when he was still alive. and it was the other guy whose name is going to escape me now but you know all the Beach Boys one of the other Beach Boys but he just stood up they had like an autocue for what was coming up and stuff and he obviously had malfunctioned at some point and he just said he just went hello festival we should just say that early I think that would save my blushes to be fair to you we had to change the opening of the show because there's like a line in the song that we do at the top where it's like Uptown Funk isn't it we go it's Friday night and I'm in the spot or something and we had to make sure that we assign you that because the number of times I've come out on stage and gone hey everyone it's Tuesday night it's Wednesday people get funny about that it's Wednesday they get really funny and there's something in my brain I can't remember what day it is it's very bad if you've got something written down in front of you and it changes you always think I'm going to read that no matter what.

29:29I'm going to say, I'm not going to remember. But that wasn't the worst. You should have seen them the other week when you said, didn't you say Tunbridge was in Surrey or something? Did I call it Tunbridge Wells? And they went, no, Tunbridge. Oh, that's really different. Oh, you're two different places. Yeah, yeah, there's Tunbridge and Tunbridge Wells. We played a gig in South Petherton, which, you know, it's sort of down where the A303 goes to die, down that end. Yeah. And we pulled up, there's no sort of 4G or anything around there. So I couldn't look up any facts about the local area with which to charm the audience.

29:58Yes, they like that. And there came a point where I thought, I just won't say anything, but as guitars started tuning, there's this big sort of gulf of silence opening up. And you're that guy. And I just said, thank you. It's great to be here in South Petherton. It brings us one step closer to our dream of playing in North Petherton. And they all went, boom! And they started stamping their feet and going, boom! We hate North Petherton. And I was like, what have I done? I've opened up some huge fields. So a guy came up to me at the interview and said, Seriously, North Petherton is a shithole. And I've subsequently learned that North Petherton is like 40 miles away from South Petherton.

30:34They're not even next door to each other. What about Central Petherton? What's going on? I don't know. So confusing. It's one of those things where Central Petherton sank. Yes. It was covered by a reservoir or something and they've just got the two edges. It's a minefield, Ellie. It is. Oh, fucking day. We have a rule, which is if you don't know the county, don't guess. they get so arsy about it i we were once in surrey and i said ken it was like i fucking said all the bad words honestly that was so cross we better get out alive yeah and also it was surrey so they were extra cross because you know we did that in yorkshire we're in lincolnshire and he said hello yorkshire and it was weird like in the shadow of the bridge this club that we were playing yeah there's literally people had come you could see people had come over the bridge from yorkshire to see us but i said but i i'm thinking i i don't understand it but actually because i'm thinking so where we are where i live is right between catford and forest hill and i don't care like interchangeably they're both as sort of shit as each other whatever um but then if someone who didn't know southeast london suggested that i lived in dulwich which is just down the road i'd be livid because dulwich is full of posh people that she used to live there for fuck's sake i don't want anything to do with dulwich so maybe i do have yeah because if you look at the map of voting south underdives are like all red and then there's this one blue dot and that is fucking dulwich that's where the ghost of mark thatcher yes and boris johnson sent his kids there it's like a big private school hub because well yeah it's where nigel farage went to school yeah yeah where he went to be racist uh and something he's continued throughout his life that's his og I can understand that's his origin story here.

32:14Anyway. So what we're saying is that we understand you, Surrey Kent. Yeah. Because we have... It makes a difference. You have to live with yourself if you let that sort of mistake pass. Very, very sorry. I mean, sorry. We'll do better. That's what we're saying. Do better. Look inward. Oh, goodness me. Well, just before we do the confessions, let's look to the future. What are your goals, dreams, hopes, aspirations? You're in your early 60s. you've got so much left you've got your whole plan not that much left to give you've still got your rock and roll career has yet to peak that's probably what will be taking up my spring we've got an album coming out is that in April, May?

32:53in April oh good time and sort of singles are being sort of casually released which is the first time I think publicity wise we have our ducks in a row before something comes out usually we're just so late that you know these things happen here it is here it is what let's go so we will be touring in the spring to support that CD they say I think the dates are on our website and I think there are probably links to all the tickets now because look at you that's us now we got our shit together now shall we do some scummy mummy confessions yes I'd love to do that Ellie have you got one Tim have you got a parenting family you'd like to share of present did we do this last time did I did I last time say that I left a baby in a fish shop yes you were buying barnacles goose barnacles yeah that's right i've never heard of goose barnacles before it's a great story well i'm sorry to repeat it but that's still the dumbest thing i've ever done but i think i get very nervous in fish shops i get i get anxious because i think fish shops are the only shop where like a man is basically trying to sell you an old fish yeah yes you say no no i want i want a new fish sir yeah what are the new fishes of today and he's like what about this slightly off octopus.

34:04Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was, and so I just, when I got my booze, he talked me into these goose barnacles that I didn't want and he sold me, you know, flounder from three weeks ago and I went out, just paid and walked out of the fish shop. He wanted it to end. All the way to the playground where my wife had the other two children and I was thinking, oh, I'm going to have trouble explaining these goose barnacles. That's what I'm reading. She's going to say, what is in that bag? And that's not what she said. What she said was, where is the baby? and I dropped all things I was holding and ran all the way back to the fish shop and the baby's just there in the sort of stroller yeah what do you call them in this country pusher no that's what you call them that's what you call them Australia no we call it a pusher in Australia you call it a pram here don't you pram buggy fuck buggy it was a buggy because it was like a three week old baby yeah but the third one you always leave you end up leaving them somewhere don't you yeah and I remember when we asked you why you had a third and you just said look all I know is that three is too many and and that stuck with me ellie and i remained having two children it's kids by the end it's fine yes yes you get through it you just get and i'm one of five kids and i adore being in a beef family and i always thought i would and then i had two children i was like oh oh no no no thank you it's just because my brother's still got little kids and he's just like i said so what are you doing this weekend he's like oh it's just like i'm driving you know i'm taking them to hockey yeah yeah yeah and it's like i remember that where you just basically they all have different stuff to do and just kind of all you do is drop yeah uh helen thorne do you have a confession for us yes i do um i um accidentally dribbled on a shoe in clark's yesterday and that is something i'm not proud of much more recent than mine yeah yeah it was yesterday um hugo is has started work experience today and uh we got the brief from the company that he no trainers no jeans smart business casual so what yeah he's working for an engineering company and they all so it's you know So it's all very smart.

35:59So I thought, oh, fuck, he doesn't have any smart shoes. He's only got trainers. So off to Stratford I went and then went to him. The home of smart shoes, famously. I believe so. The cobbler's guild in Stratford. Exactly. Where else? And Clark's opened at 11am, which is great. So off we went, you know, one of the first in the store. We got a lovely pair of black shoes. So he was walking around. He's got massive, like he's a size 45, fucking flippers. They're all there, aren't they? Yeah, I know. Anyway, so we finally decide on a pair, comfortable, leathery, lovely, lovely, lovely. And the man said, oh, so you'll take those?

36:36And I said, yes, they're lovely. And then I was holding the shoe, but then I just sort of did this dribble. And then, but you could, because it was a shiny shoe, you could see the dribble, but I was halfway to handing the man the shoes. But then I just had the man the shoe because I didn't want to, like, wipe my own dribble off the shoe. And he saw the dribble and I saw the dribble, but he still took the shoe. Because they were that desirable. it's weird dribbly thing you're slavering yeah yeah anyway oh i dribbling on a shoe in class bless you god bless you thank you been a long time since we had a scummy mommy confession set in clarks i know i enjoyed that it's a very high quality shoe my confession is sort of related i suppose which is that my son is also um being at the same school as your son doing work experience um but um well you've sent your son off to a very smart engineering job my son is just going to my mate's like restaurant in lordship lane uh and he's gonna he's working in the kitchen which is quite exciting because he likes food and cooking so that's all good and we also like good parents went um not to stratford weirdly but we went and bought him some special you know the shoes with the steel cap in and whatever anyway there's that's not really doesn't have like a sharp knife through his toe or something yes and then he spent all and i made him wear them yesterday to make sure they fit and wear them in a bit and he just spent the whole day going, can I drop a knife on my shoes?

37:53Can I drop a knife? Can I drop a knife on my shoes? Mum, mum, mum, mum, can we heat up some oil?

38:02No, you can't. So we sent him off this morning. It was all very exciting. His grandfather insisted on driving him. It's like he was going off to the front. Goodbye, son. It's like my boy. It's a long way to Tipperary. We did not sing as I waved him off to another part of south east London so my dad came and took him and we took a photo it was all like oh and then my friend Dan the chef sent me a picture of him in the kitchen and he's got this little apron on and the caption was like oh look at Charlie he's just preparing the beetroot orange and fennel salad and I was like oh he hates all of those there's no danger for me eating anything no absolutely we'll not be bringing home and then the next picture was of an orange I mean I think it used to be an orange it looked like it had been hacked up, run over sort of thrown off a skyscraper not spherical anymore yeah not spherical, like someone had gone at it with some sort of implement probably while blindfolded like a toddler had eaten an apple just gash marks on the side and the capture was in quote marks my son saying, done I think I've fucked it

39:16so that's that's where we are I have sent my son out into the world of work with the right shoes but also with an understanding that it's perfectly fine to swear on your first on your first day of work it's news to me that these unpaid internships also mean you have to buy brand new footwear for everyone yeah yeah I feel like yeah I feel like you feel like you're doing something don't you and it gave us an excuse to go to the fancy catering shop Nisbit's on Shaftesbury Avenue oh so I've always wondered to go in So good. That's cool, Lily. I just walked by one yesterday and I took a picture of it because I was so excited by it.

39:51Just show my son. It's a big program. Awesome. I was like, buy some, buy your pots and pans here to my older son. Then you can move. Yeah. Start with the pans. Yeah. Work your way out. We were on our way to meet friends. We were in a hurry, but we were like, ooh, we could get, we could get a tiny, tiny frying pan. The little things and the really big things. Look at these tongs. They're only£1.79. I know. Tiny grain of garlic and ginger. I've got two of those. I've got a gold one and a silver you can put it in a doll's house oh so we came out really excitedly going we'll have to come back here like it was a date yeah yeah I love Toscan he lets my holiday home yeah you'd like to set up a separate WhatsApp group well there we are I think we've reached the end of the podcast I think that's the end oh shall we do some admin yes we've got a big tour plan for 2026 starting with Ellie Rotherham Rotherham Rotherham which is nearly sold out Winchester very few tickets left but we'd love you to come to Darlington if you could make Darlington you and a couple of hundred mates would be just wonderful we're also doing a Scottish tour so we're going to Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen which is wonderful maybe Arbroath we would like to eat some Smokies so that is the food I would go back to Arbroath just for that cheesy fish pie we had that was one of the most favourite things I ate last year yes Annick we're going to Hexham Northampton Siren Sester and then three nights in Hertford and that's just February mate we are we are flat chat we are really busy right alright well that was wonderful yes thank you so much Tim for coming back and coming on the podcast not at all see you in 10 years yes yes please when you're in your 70s yay your children touchwood will all still be here and your tortoise will still be alive yeah he'll still be alive they never die I'd have to make plans for him in my will you know how old is he now we don't really know but my wife got him when she was eight she said he wasn't like an egg when I got him either you know no no no he was probably eight years old when I was eight years old so he's probably 60 and I don't think I don't think they die no I mean I think they only die from going upside down when no one's around to turn them back over yeah because I've done that for him probably eight times in his life yeah he died each of those times but otherwise it's open ended yeah he could live forever they don't age really be more tortoise just slow down eat lettuce until next time bye bye

42:36guess who's coming to this house today to do a podcast i don't know tim dowling from the guardian you like him oh he's very funny man he's even funnier than me yeah well he's coming here to do to do a podcast have you got a message for him tim yeah get the snake back oh he used a pet snake and it died right a burmese python okay i'll tell him thanks you don't want to say anything about his writing or you know how you've enjoyed his work over the years or no I like his story about his pet snake okay I'm sure we're very happy yeah