331: Cariad Lloyd on grief, writing, and problematic face painting

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0:31Cariad Lloyd: I feel like it's you I don't know why I think it could be yeah why not let's do it okay it begins

0:39Scummy Mummies: it begins it begins it's not Highlander what are you talking about Hans Zimmer soundtrack yeah

0:46Cariad Lloyd: something light shoots out of our eyes and ears it begins South London 2026 and scene okay okay I don't even know how to begin my podcast okay oh we've done 330 Oh, wow. Who could blame you for forgetting? I know how it starts. Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummy's podcast. Oh, I absolutely nailed it. Can't believe it. You absolutely smashed that. You smashed it.

1:12Scummy Mummies: That is a difficult line. I can see why you forgot that. Yeah. Oh, I think... You've made the top of it so complicated. Yeah. Why make it so complicated? Maybe just simplify it a bit. Yeah.

1:24Cariad Lloyd: I think with another 330 attempts, you'll get it. You'll absolutely... You'll nail it every time. This is it. 10 ,000 hours. Come on. Yeah, you're right. This is what Gladwell meant. Yeah.

1:33Scummy Mummies: That's what he was referring to.

1:34Cariad Lloyd: Okay.

1:39Cariad Lloyd: Hello, scumbags. This is the Scummy Mummies podcast. With your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne.

1:51Cariad Lloyd: Hello and welcome to the Scummy Mummies podcast. It's me, Helen Thorne. And it's me, Ellie Gibson. And guess what, Ellie? I can guess because I have eyes. But go on. Let's pretend that this is a surprise. I'm going to give everyone eyes. Wow. Are you... What did you have for breakfast? You're good nuts. I really not. Didn't sleep well last night. Anyway, I think I had too much estrogen this morning. I did one extra squirt.

2:19Scummy Mummies: Oh, yeah. We can talk about the peri-peris. I've been following your peri-peri. Oh, my goodness.

2:24Cariad Lloyd: Yeah, I think I've overdosed on estrogen. But told you not to snort it. Oh, my God. I don't know which hole to put it in. Anyway, enough about me and my hormones. I'm very delighted because we have a guest, Ellie. And her name is Carrie Ed Lloyd. Oh, hooray. To be fair, she is one of my favourite ones. So I am excited as well. There you go. Me too. I am too. A returner. Yes. It's not my first time. Exactly. I'm very excited. Oh, it's lovely to have you back. Like, we've just been, we've just, I'm going to set the scene. It's a February afternoon. And finally, listener, wherever you are in the world, there is light and sunshine in London.

3:03Cariad Lloyd: And we have not had it for a very long time. So I feel, I think I may be giddy.

3:08Scummy Mummies: Yeah, you've got too much vitamin D. Your Australian soul is like, can't believe what's happening. I know. I remember this. I remember being alive. How about that? I'm not sad. What's that like? Whereas me and Ellie are like, yeah, this is normal.

3:21Cariad Lloyd: Yeah.

3:21Scummy Mummies: Yeah, well, I have just to show off this now.

3:25Cariad Lloyd: I have just spent 10 days in Thailand. So I've got sunshine coming out my arsehole as always. A bit of a glow, I was thinking. A little touch of lovely glow to your skin. Oh, maybe it's a more natural look because I can't use mascara at the moment because I've got conjunctivitis in Thailand. But it appears to have subsided. So there you are. A lovely, fun holiday anecdote for the listener. Well, it was nice because you mentioned just before that your husband got the runs so he yes he got the runs i've got contractivitis and also perforated my eardrum so you know it was it was uh but pathline was delightful head shoulders knees

4:03Scummy Mummies: enters i love that people when you're so in need of a holiday that even that doesn't dim the edge of your holiday you're like yeah we were all sick but we really needed to be somewhere else yeah

4:13Cariad Lloyd: that was fine at the end of the day we were on a fucking tropical beach uh you know and in the sea and drinking watermelon shakes. Oh, lovely. And my son, Joe, found a beach bar that served spaghetti bolognese. So he was... We all lived our best fucking night. Christmas is saved. Yes, it was good. Nothing better. But we just... Never mind my holiday and your perimenopause. Oh, we've got guests. Wasn't we like an award-winning comedian, author, podcaster? Where is she? When's she getting here? She's here right now. She's Carrie Ed Lloyd. and it's just I can't even remember the last time we had you on it was a while ago you had one

4:53Scummy Mummies: little one yes I had one little one who's now not little and I've got two oh my goodness so how old are the kids now so my oldest is nine and my son is oh it's really I had him five days before the first lockdown oh my god so if you want to know how long it's been since covid you can look at my child and he's nearly six wow so March March 2020 yeah which really freaks people out because you say to them when do you think covid was they're like oh two years ago and i point i'm like it was him long ago yeah he's at school he runs around he speaks and then they're like no that can't be right so it's quite interesting having like a literal person born at the start of something so yeah like he and obviously he has no memory of it at all whenever we talk about it he's like what are you talking about what was that what's what's covid's they're like oh you have

5:43Cariad Lloyd: no idea oh my yeah did you call him corona after the yeah we changed his name after after a few

5:50Scummy Mummies: months it just seemed to fit how was that because so you had one baby already so you kind of know what normal yeah i'd look like i i i feel really because having a baby at that time obviously was hard but i so my daughter was three ish something like that and i feel really strongly empathetic for the people who were going through it first time because like I'd been there so like if he was sick I knew oh just give him the cowbell we'll be all right or I knew what like oh this is what it looks like after injections you know you'd like and also I had other mums nearby that you can sort of ask us oh we can't get hold of this do you have it so you've got that community set up so it's still horrible having a child in lockdown but if that'd be my first time I think be really hard I mean I can only imagine it must have been so isolating and difficult because you're not and obviously he never went to any classes he never went to soft play

6:44Cariad Lloyd: well second child I mean

6:45Scummy Mummies: well second child anyway yeah exactly but like you couldn't just meet up with friends and have a cup of tea but at least I had when you could meet people I could meet like the mum friends I had with my daughter and like go to a park so it was like okay and so he was around other kids because that's the other thing they say about that generation they didn't He didn't socialise. Whereas he's like, he's so social, it's embarrassing. Like he will just, he's like a man in a pub. Like he'll just talk to the taxi driver, the bus driver. So yeah, he's like, every time I hear about the COVID generation, I'm like, well, he's sort of whatever it is, the break of the rule, whatever the rule is, the anathema of the rule.

7:25Scummy Mummies: Because he is so ridiculously sociable.

7:28Cariad Lloyd: Yeah.

7:28Scummy Mummies: But yeah, it was hard. Obviously, it was really like not fun. Yeah. just being stuck inside and then and she couldn't go to nursery and i was supposed to be writing a book about grief so i had to i had to write the book about grief with a three-year-old and newborn then like obviously just like every time you turn on telly like another just so i've died and now i was like at my computer researching victorian death rituals yeah this is a bit shit and i i

7:57Cariad Lloyd: love the book so much like I I cannot um rave about enough it was I've read it a couple of times um it's it's wonderful and I love the fact it's called you are not alone because obviously through the whole time writing that fucking book you were not alone yeah I was not alone

8:13Scummy Mummies: Octonauts was on noise cancelling headphones were on yeah and that's how that book got written but yeah it was a very weird because I the grief cast started in 2016 so I'd already been talking about grief a lot but obviously in quite a niche way and then when covid happened every fuck i wanted to talk about grief do you know i mean like everybody oh we're all talking about it now and i'd be asked to go on the radio all the time to talk about something that i've been talking about for years anyway with people what is what is it why are funerals important i'd be like oh you just realized you just like just noticed that grief is like quite significant whilst having a newborn so yeah it was really really weird but i'm thank you it's very nice of you to say i'm glad I did manage to get the book out there but it wasn't been delayed obviously because did you always are yeah yeah you've had a better excuse I know I and Dan like everyone was a bit

9:04Cariad Lloyd: afraid to ask me because they're like you okay with the two children yeah um did you mind sort of becoming that go-to person like becoming the grief lady like when obviously you're lots of other things as well you're a comedian you know almost the opposite of talking about you're there

9:21Scummy Mummies: to make people laugh like was it was that annoying it wasn't annoying it was um one of those things I don't know if you can make it's like I didn't set out to do it I just set out to do a podcast because I thought it'd be fun to go out grief and then obviously it just became more successful and you know won awards and then I got the book and then I became go-to grief lady and I sort of was like oh oh I didn't I didn't plan I don't plan anything I'm not I'm not good at that at all I just go see what happens and so that's why it was really amazing and I loved it and I'm still very proud to talk about grief but I have stopped doing the Grief Plus about two three years ago because I was like I need this not to be my entire personality and I did an event and someone said very well meaning said um you just need to give up this comedy and become a therapist this is clearly your destiny and i was like oh that's a bad sign if you think that's what i naturally should like no the point was this was like i'm doing this by a comedy not to kill comedy it's like it's to bring that element into it so i was like oh yeah i need a break yeah i need a and then the book really was like everything i'd learned in seven years and i get a lot i'm still get emails now even though we haven't released we i haven't released an episode for three years um so my plan with the book was like this is everything i know in seven years it's every fact i've learned every useful quote from someone so if you need to ask me something it's in the book so because i would get these huge emails and i just didn't have the mental capacity to reply to them but being able to be like there's a book there's a book and i promise you that whatever you're going through there is something in there that will help you i know there is because i've done 200 episodes I've talked about every single type of grief possible like so I know there's something in there but it was a bit of a like okay here's the book now I'd like to go back to telling some jokes I just tell some jokes but obviously it's still a huge part of my life I still write books about grief kids books now about grief and I still do grief events I did something in Downing Street in December about grief so I still very happy to talk about it but just not in that all-consuming way that's all anyone knows me for because that's like your book Helen has come

11:39Cariad Lloyd: hasn't out of people writing to you and going I've just found out my husband's been having an affair I'm going for divorce like yeah they always say that when do I feel better and stuff like that isn't it yeah exactly and that's why again a bit like why I wanted to write um how to face big change because everyone was like yeah where's the magic pill when do I start feeling better why do I still feel sad what does life look like and you know and I think a lot of the time you know just because it is you're occupying this new space and you just feel a bit mental it's just finding not necessarily being told um what to do but just examples of hope just examples of other people have muddling their way through and that none of it looks the same and like what you your carry ads in my book i interviewed her she gives me very very very good advice and one of the bits of advice i really liked that you gave me was especially because now that i'm sure like when my mum died and i write about that in the book um i went oh fuck now i get it and i went back to friends whose parents had died and gone shit i'm really sorry i wasn't there for you and i yeah Yeah, and I guess I was going to ask you the same question that I asked you in the book about how do you go back to people when you realise you weren't there for them at the time?

12:58Cariad Lloyd: Because a lot of people go, well, their mum died like two years ago or five years ago and I didn't ask, is it too late?

13:04Scummy Mummies: Yeah, I get asked that a lot and I find it, I guess what's interesting is like people seem to think with grief they've got one shot. Like they're like, I've got one chance to ask my friend, didn't do it, oh well, never speak to him again. And you're like, why do you think you've got one chance? like yeah i don't know like we with other topics you'd be like oh i didn't didn't probably ask them about their kitchen i didn't get full details i must next time i see them i'll say oh tell me properly what happened but with grief i'm like that's it i didn't say it so i'll never say it and actually like it is never too late it is never too late so my dad died when i was a teenager i was 15 and i had people come back to me in my 30s being like fucking hell like i'm so sorry yeah I'm so shit.

13:48Scummy Mummies: I swear all the time. Is that right? No, no, no. It's very welcome. I thought it'd be fine, but my mum... No, I thought you were a thief lady.

13:54Cariad Lloyd: That's fine.

13:54Scummy Mummies: My mum's what... He came in my head. He was just swearing. No.

13:57Cariad Lloyd: We should have called this swear cast. We need a rebrand. Yeah.

14:03Scummy Mummies: So, yeah, I had people come back to me and it's always very comforting and I don't think you ever begrudge them.

14:10Cariad Lloyd: No.

14:10Scummy Mummies: Because you know, they didn't know. How did they know? They couldn't know and so you don't feel like, oh, yeah, You've shown up now, have you? I've got my ledger. She said nothing. And also you feel sorry for them because you're like, I'm sorry you get it. Actually, when you didn't get it, I was relieved for you because I knew you didn't get it. I knew you were being a bit shit. But also I was like, good, you've got your parents. That's great. Somebody needs to have a live parent. And so when they sort of join you in the club, inverted commas, you feel a bit bittersweet, isn't it? You're like glad that you, I'm glad you can see you were shit or I'm glad you can see like you didn't quite say the right thing or you weren't there in the way that maybe was 100 % helpful.

14:51Scummy Mummies: Yeah. But you also know they did the best they could at the time. But I just honestly, it's never too late. It can be 30 years and you can still fucking how many ways can we message each other? You know, you can still dot them an Instagram DM or WhatsApp or a voice note just being like, I just want to say I'm now here and I realize, oh, I didn't quite do this. I'm sure you've had this with like divorce as well. Like people got divorced and you were like, all right, oh, never mind. And now you're like, oh, I see. This is life-changing and huge and there's a grief to it and it rips you apart and you have to reform yourself.

15:24So I think it's absolutely fine

15:27Scummy Mummies: to just come back to someone and be like, sorry.

15:30Cariad Lloyd: Yeah, I think that's it. It's a daisy. And also I think whichever side you're on, there's such compassion because you're like going, none of us know what to fucking say or do or whatever. and you know there's so much love between everyone and you're like we'll just yeah we'll just we're all growing at different times and different ways so I think um the thing I think is helpful the

15:52Scummy Mummies: thing I do try and do is if a friend is talking about another friend and they'll be like oh you know oh they're being so weird I think I feel like a responsibility or don't to be like they are grieving still oh it's been three years yeah but I think they're probably so upset about that oh do you and so i'm like yeah i think oh they're like she's so angry she's so angry so angry like yeah i think it's grief and so i feel like that's okay if you know outside away from the friend people are like what's their problem to just remind people it's probably still grief actually but to the person who's going through it oh all bets are off like fine whatever you're going through this awful situation so like of course you didn't understand but yeah to the community by the way guys you might not be over that thing yet like yeah which is fair enough yeah and that's

16:45Cariad Lloyd: the lovely thing that you keep saying in the book is like you won't get over it no you don't get over

16:49Scummy Mummies: it's just there it's um you build a life around it and the time when people say time heals that is not true but what it means is the more time away from the event the more life there is and the more of a bit of a buffer there is from that thing but that doesn't mean that it still can't catch you one day or you smell something that reminds you of them or you see someone that looks like them or a program comes on that they used to ring them and talk about yeah it still stings yeah of course it does but it's i think people just if they haven't been through it it's just really hard to get their head around that it's not done and it's not something you get over

17:24Cariad Lloyd: yeah and i wonder if there's a fear there as well for people who haven't been through it that especially if if the death was years ago oh if i bring it up now like if i say oh by the way i'm sorry about this or how are you doing maybe if they're having a good day today i'll somehow knock them off balance and they won't thank me for kind of being reminded of the loss when like you say actually maybe it's just there all the time anyway it's there and obviously like

17:49Scummy Mummies: like you can definitely have good days and someone can say something you're like oh i actually had forgotten my dad died thanks sorry and that but again it's like i guess it's just acknowledging you could it's very fine to say someone oh hey i just want to say like i know it's mother's day coming up and maybe you haven't thought of it and maybe it doesn't mean anything to you but i just wanted to check in because that's the truth isn't it and and if and you could say like but i don't want to upset you and if you don't talk about it absolutely fine i think most people then you know what you're getting is like i'm coming with compassion and care but i am worried that it's not a day you want to talk about it and then the griever can say yeah you know what i really just don't want to talk about it and you go that's fine but yeah it's a subject but it's it's sort of acknowledge you know it's like anyone acknowledging your pain is so lovely and I think also we always think that bringing up equals sadness so that's the other thing you think oh if I say it they'll cry they might do but that might be fine or they might want to remember good stuff so you're never allowed to talk about the person in a positive like sort of not neutral but just a normal way of like oh my dad did this my mum did this it's all very like are you okay because it's mother's day like all bit stressful whereas someone just saying oh you know yeah what did they like what do you used to do for mother's day did you used to do stuff or was she a mom who didn't give a shit do you have plans for the day like do you want do you want to come around and ask so you don't have to think about it like it's just sort of everybody's so different so you're never gonna there's no magic solution but like yeah i think the fear of upsetting people is is is such a but what's the word?

19:26Scummy Mummies: Like it hampers more than it helps because then you don't say anything rather than saying something badly. And again, I always say, you can apologise. If you say something and they burst into tears and they're like, why would you bring this up? You can go away. You can wait a week and you can text them and say, I'm so sorry. I obviously asked you on a really bad day. I'm really sorry. Is there a better way I can ask or should I text you rather than do it in person so you can like prepare yourself? Shall I just buck off?

19:52Cariad Lloyd: Do you want me to just look at me? I'll fuck off. I'll just fuck off again now. I'll just fuck off.

19:56Scummy Mummies: We always think like, I have to get it right first and that's it. And then if I don't, oh, I guess I'll never bring that up again. It's like you're human. And I don't mind. I've had people say to me like, oh, I just don't know what to say because, you know, I meet people who've got like great grandparents alive and I'm like, fuck it. Who are these people? So like, or great grandparents. So sometimes people say, I really don't know what to say because I really haven't experienced it. It's okay to say that. Okay. So I'm so sorry. I'm so shit at this. I just haven't experienced it but like by all means if I'm doing something and it's helpful tell me and if I'm doing something it's not you can totally tell me

20:31Cariad Lloyd: you're very wise Karen of becoming a therapist

20:36Scummy Mummies: charging£900 an hour but it's so earn more money that way Jesus

20:41Cariad Lloyd: it's really great to talk about death because we've been so well I know from my own it's been pain avoidance sad avoiding yeah and which is fair enough you know if you could choose between being happy or

20:56Scummy Mummies: sad i'd probably choose being happy you need a bit of avoidance that's also fine i again people say i'm so worried about my friend you know their parent died or something died and and they're just you know going out and part i'm like good just let that's how they're coping at the moment like it's fine there's no right way to do this it's okay but it's just not being afraid of it coming up when he when it does come up it's okay but people are just so terrified but i do understand because like obviously i joined the club really early so i've been talking about this for a long time if i hadn't been i would absolutely be like oh what do i say i don't know what to do so i think

21:33Cariad Lloyd: like do you not feel bad if you're in that camp it's fine yeah and i mean for anyone who's uh on the cusp or or or in it or i mean you know i think grief class was such i i started listening to it just because I was always fascinated and I loved comedians talking about dark shit as well. And there would be, there's just so many funny things about death.

21:55Scummy Mummies: Yeah, so fascinating. People's relationship with humour and grief, especially comedians' relationship. And I would recommend the Romesh Vanganathan episode. It's wonderful. I couldn't believe how much we were laughing. It's just so funny. And then there was, yeah, like another episode. I can't remember who this is. Sorry, it's terrible, but it's been so many. Someone was holding their mum's hand and like waiting, you know, like any minute now. and the cleaner came along and was hoovering an NHS hospital and then they were like oh sorry sorry I'll come back when she's gone wow

22:27Cariad Lloyd: oh my god wow

22:28Scummy Mummies: oh my god yeah yeah

22:29Cariad Lloyd: I'll give it a minute

22:30Scummy Mummies: oh it's like they say it was so weird because like the cleaner was being thoughtful but it was so insensitive at the same time and then obviously you feel bad oh the cleaner's waiting and are we keeping her here like yeah there's so much shit that happens that you you feel like you're not allowed to talk about you're not allowed to admit that you were laughing at something that's it's just so funny you know as you know when in these things when you lose somebody like there's all these moments when you're like this is the funniest thing that's happened in my life i am crying with laughter and i think that is the body's way to remind you you didn't die yeah i think the hysterics that happen is the body being like you didn't die they died you need to get oxygen in and live and find stuff funny it's you will live again you will get through

23:15Cariad Lloyd: this but yeah that is my default setting just to get the giggles and say something inappropriate and just kind of like I just like break the and just um I have told this on the podcast before but um my granny's funeral um uh I have two tall cousins and two shorter cousins and when they when they picked up the coffin oh gosh the the tall cousins went up back and the short cousins down the front and you know at the end of the funeral the organ music is playing and then like the pool pool bearers lifted up anyway so it was on quite an ankle and we just heard this and it was granny's head smacked like and we're all like like shaking laughter yeah yeah and I think the poor short cousins at the front were bearing the way feeling awful yeah but they're And also thinking, this is quite funny.

24:10Cariad Lloyd: It's so funny. And then the coffin going off on an angle. So funny. But again, you had to laugh because it was just... You had to laugh. I mean, it's not like she hurt her head.

24:22Scummy Mummies: It's nice when you think, and I think it's nice when you know the person would have also laughed. Yes, exactly. Like, you know, they would have also felt that was absolutely hilarious. Yeah. Funerals are absolutely rife for just people losing it because it's just, it's like a school. It's like, you know, you're not meant to. Yeah. then it becomes even more funny and you know shoulders shaking it's just and especially if you can see a family member shaking and you're like oh we're all going we're all going so i think this stuff is so normal and when i started the grief cause oh i was doing events people would come up to me and they'd be like oh um we had something funny happen as well but they'd be like oh it's embarrassing but i can tell you like you're a doctor i can tell you and i'd be like we're all having it why aren't we all admitting yeah and then we won't feel guilty and i think it has changed I think that conversation has changed I think death is I mean what podcast doesn't talk about grief these days Jesus Christ I know

25:13Cariad Lloyd: I know

25:14Scummy Mummies: all the rage tell me about it I'm like oh here's the clip of them crying about the grief and I'm like it used to be you had to come on a special podcast we used to be

25:24Cariad Lloyd: the only ones fucking moving about how hard the shit parents it is how everybody's fucking at it we laid the road ahead yes this is it but you see you've moved on you've said goodbye you've pushed grief cast i believe in grief cars

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26:15Cariad Lloyd: And you're writing children's books now.

26:17Scummy Mummies: I'm writing kids' books, yeah.

26:18Cariad Lloyd: Have you got them? I've got them right here. Yeah, I do.

26:20Scummy Mummies: So what inspired this pivot? So I guess it's partly having kids, but I was always obsessed with kids' books, which I know I got some grief. I've got some grief for it. People being like, another celebrity writing kids' books. And I was actually like, oh, you thought I was a celebrity? I don't think I am, but thank you very much. But I've always been obsessed with kids' books. I used to work, I used to run the kids' books section of WXMIS in my local town when I was like out of university. And then I was doing GriefCast and I just had a meeting with a lovely Hachette, who are my publishers, Hachette Children's.

27:00Scummy Mummies: and they initially just came to me and said oh you know do you have any thoughts about kids books and the the kids picture book which is out in paperback now where did she go had been written in my head for years of like because I when I was in grief class I get sent lots of books you know and there's some beautiful kids picture books about grief there's some really beautiful ones but a lot of them involve animals and a lot of them are like badgers who are sad and they're going to a wood that you can't go to. And that's lovely, but I had become a mother and I had a kid who is not particularly, who wants straight, honest truth.

27:34Scummy Mummies: And I was like, oh, just why isn't there a book that just tells the truth about it? Like, it's really weird to me that I can't just, because I was having conversations with her about where my dad was, you know, and they said, oh, you know, my friend Henry has a grandpa. We don't have a grandpa. I'm like, no, he's dead. Oh, why? And I'm like, okay, well, he had cancer. And so I was having these conversations very early on with her. So, yeah, when they said, have you got an idea? I was like, I've literally written this book in my head. And then I had another idea, which was this, because I do this show, Ostentatious.

28:04Scummy Mummies: I do do many things. I have ADHD, obviously. So I do this show called Ostentatious, which is improvised Jane Austen. I've been doing that for 15 years. So I know way too much about 1812 to 1814, which is where most of her books, a large amount of primary and primary sentences were published. so I decided to write like a kid's Jane Austen book so that one was like the first what the picture book was very much like this is the work of grief cast continuing I want there to be a book where parents can sit and have an honest conversation and then yeah Lydia Marmalade and the Christmas Wish which came out at Christmas and the second one comes out this Christmas was very much like I want my kids to have a Jane Austen kids book that's like an adventure book that will like lead them to Jane Austen but without obviously can't really read them Pride and Prejudice and they've done kids versions but like you know you're missing a large amount of the kids don't get a lot out of Mr Starcy coming out of late no exactly exactly so I wanted to write a book in that world that got them used to that world that was really funny and silly and Lydia Marmalade is a little girl and her best friend is a sausage dog called Colin after Colin Firth for my who likes jumping in lakes there's like jokes for adults so it's trying to combine i would say where did she go the picture book for kids about grief is very much it you know it's it's a book that if you are have experienced a loss or a grandparent loss in the book it's about the little girl her grandma has died and she overhears people saying i'm sorry if you're lost or she'll be watching over you and she's like what what does this mean and it's a book about talking very straightforwardly to children um so i would say do you have young kids and you you're in that situation you need a book that's very honest and sensitive but i also recommend it for people whose kids are asking questions about death and it's secular um and so there's a lot of books that are religious to talk about kids with grief and sanity because they have a great story or a belief that they can say this is it but i was sort of thinking for parents who are like well we don't really have a faith where do we tell them they've gone so in the book the mum says you know we don't know some people believe this some people live but we know that she loved us that's what we know we know for sure that we loved her and she loved us and that's the thing that no one can take away from us but yeah we don't know where she's gone yeah so um yeah whereas the middle grade book is just like silly old christmas adventure but it's not like that

30:29Cariad Lloyd: book uh have you seen this woman's on trial in america she her husband died and she wrote a book for their picture book for their kids about grief and um you know like i think it was quite religious just thinking, where did you go, Dattie? Yeah. You know, it wasn't called Where Did He Go? And it looks, well, she's been accused of actually murdering him. Oh, my God. Wow. What a twist. What was it? Putting fentanyl or formaldehyde or some awful thing in his fucking milkshakes. So she's on trial for it now. Oh, wow. I really want to read the book. Yes, yes. Were there clues? Were there clues? Were there even?

31:11Cariad Lloyd: Where did he go? Did he eat his milkshake? Yes. It's mental. There's clips about going on news shows and stuff. Talking about grief. I've written this book. So what I'm saying is, Carrie, is this ladder up Floyd to cover up someone's murder?

31:26Scummy Mummies: Well, luckily he died when I was 15. So I've gone away with it by now.

31:30Cariad Lloyd: You're fine.

31:31Scummy Mummies: Yeah, it's fine. But I thought that's fascinating that she then chose to write a book about it. Maybe she did it and was like, oh, now my kids are grieving. This is hard. Yeah. I wish there was a book for my mum murdered my dad. Quite the niche. You know, if there isn't the book, you should write it. You write the book that's missing that you need. Write what you know. Write what you know.

31:52Cariad Lloyd: So dark. So funny. So, yeah, so now you're a children's author, not doing the Grief Cust, but still doing Ostentatious, which if anyone hasn't seen, it's like Jane Austen improv, basically.

32:04Scummy Mummies: Yeah, so it's a play in the style of Jane Austen and we get a title from the audience. So we've had things like Bennett, like Beckham, The Empire Line Strikes Back, Everything Emma Wears Always At Once. That was a good one we had recently. Nice twist. Yeah, it was good, wasn't it? Oh, Amazon Prime and Prejudice. Oh, nice.

32:22Cariad Lloyd: Beautiful.

32:23Scummy Mummies: And then we get a title, that's it. And then there's six of us and we're in full Regency costume. We have a violinist or a pianist who's improvising along musically. And then we just do two halves of a play. And it's very stupid. You do not have to have read Jane Austen. it's basically a spoof period drama and then yeah we're at the vaudeville theater in london uh most mondays uh which is where six the musical is on and then we're touring all over the uk

32:47Cariad Lloyd: nice go and see them now helen as always has done the the running order for this podcast and the last question cariad is what's next for you like where are careers advisors or what's next for

33:01Scummy Mummies: what's what's coming up for carrier i've really as long as i passed my gccs yeah you'd stay at the school and do the a-levels there but if not i can go to a college i guess and you know like some friends are going there anyway so yeah maybe it'll be okay um uh so yeah so my second middle grade uh so the sequel to lydia marmalade lydia marmalade and the christmas adventure comes out this christmas although they come out in october because they need you they need as much buying time as possible and then i have two more picture books coming out which are not griefy a nice silly ones that let me write and then I'm doing ostentatious and I do this podcast now with Sarah Pascoe called Weirdos Book Club so we interview comedians and authors about writing and then what do you think I do just more writing and I'm a judge on the women's prize this year so yeah I was saying to you I'm reading like 70 books I read 70 books fucking hell so yeah I'm judging that at the moment which is taking up yeah it's a lot of reading time a lot of books It's amazing.

34:04Scummy Mummies: It's an amazing thing to do. But yeah.

34:06Cariad Lloyd: Do you know what's really, you probably already know this. You're a reader. You and Ellie, you're saying Audible and your Kindle are linked. So you read on your Kindle. Then I'll listen to the book. I'll go out for a walk and I'll come back and I'll read on the Kindle and it's connected. And then I just.

34:27Scummy Mummies: I didn't know that.

34:28Cariad Lloyd: Fucking awesome. I did not know that. I am blown. Like. Lucky you. I have been blown. Wow. That has changed my life. I did know that I discovered recently you can get, if you've got a Spotify premium. I was just about to say,

34:46Scummy Mummies: load of audio book. Awesome. One of my kids has to listen to stuff. There's loads of kids' audio. And if you have a Yoto, you can connect via Bluetooth. Oh, we've got a Yoto. Do Bluetooth and you can listen. And they've got like all the bunny monkeys and the dogma. Oh, we pick it. Yes, yes, yes. You can just listen to them. Yeah, right. And then you don't have to like constantly buy cards. And there's another app called Zigzag as well. X-I-G-X-A-J-G. That is a terrible brand. I didn't want that. Zigzag. They're another audiobook. Oh. That you don't want to use.

35:15Cariad Lloyd: Oh, yes. Mr. Bezos. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. Now, we do like to finish, do we not, with some scummy mummy confessions. We do.

35:24Scummy Mummies: We do. Who would like to go first? You sent me this. And I was shit last time we did this because I don't. the things that happens we happen every day and they're never that funny do you know me i'm not someone who like funny shit happens to my kids all i have is that my son is feral like he's disgusting but it's a constant eating food off the floor every day things he's found in the street but we've just we just let him do it now because it's not even he's not even like oh you never guess what he's just eaten it's like yeah of course and people say you do know that he's he found a chocolate over there and on the floor and he's eaten it and you're like oh right what did it look like how bad was it had did he find in the bin did it look like it was covered in piss

36:01Cariad Lloyd: no okay he'll be all right he's lived he's lived through worse probably he has the immune system of

36:06Scummy Mummies: like what's a gift i know and i disgusts other parents but he never gets it all he's basically

36:13Cariad Lloyd: a labrador the other day i was having a bath i'm just trying to just try to lower my cortisol yeah trying to chill a bit more going right i'll just have a bath you know put my phone away one of my teenagers, I don't want to say which one. There are two toilets in my house. There are options about where you can go to the toilet. There is a toilet right next to my head while I'm in the bath or there's a toilet downstairs. Right, you've got options. If you had an option of where to do a poo, would you do it next to your mum having a lavender infused bath or would you do it downstairs in your own private cubicle?

36:47Listener, A or B, what did my teenager do?

36:50Cariad Lloyd: Came in and pooed next to me. Came in and pooed next to me. Yuck. Why?

36:54Scummy Mummies: Why? My son likes to talk to me on the toilet. And last year, my mum likes to give you descriptions. And he was on the toilet and he did a poo. And he looked down through his desk. He said, it looks like a flower. Mum, it's a poo for Easter. An Easter poo. And he was so proud of his little poo. Oh, how sweet. I thought, this is disgusting. What have you said?

37:19Cariad Lloyd: Never. Yes. So as I'd like to mention, we went to Thailand last week and just the beginning, like, you know, you're really excited. You're like, here we go. And the kids are old now so we can go somewhere long haul and it's all going to be great and it's going to be fine. And then it's just, it's parenting just never. So like on the way there, obviously Pete and I had a bit of, not a row, but we did have an argument about what time we should leave. Pete is a person who just likes to allow the amount of time that it should take and assume that that's fine.

37:50Scummy Mummies: oh no I'm stressed already no I'll have more time in case something happens yeah Helen likes to

37:54Cariad Lloyd: leave six or seven hours of margin which for me is too much why not why not you're there you're there you're there yeah and I'm like in the middle I'm like let's leave a margin of error but let's not let's not panic so so we did that thankfully and then we got stuck in traffic um by Battersea bridge oh no and it was it was fine because we but it was like and then of course joe's like mum my mum i need a wee and we're like no there isn't anywhere to go but and then charny's like oh it's fine i'll take him so they get out of the car and like they're just going to do a wee against this wall in this estate and i'm like someone's going to come out of the flat and fucking stab them um but or we're gonna have to drive off but it was fine and then like and then there was loads of condensation on the windows and they were giggling in the back and laughing and i was like what are you doing and i looked behind me and they were drawing pictures of hitler on the windows lovely and i was like what are people in there and i'm in a traffic jam i'm like what are people gonna think like what is and in the current political climate it's just not cool it's not okay no um so we got there and it was all quite stressful and then and the plane was okay but it It was Pete's birthday when we were flying.

39:11Cariad Lloyd: And I thought, oh, maybe we'll get up great. No, the airline didn't get a shit. No one cares. You can sit in a colony with your shitty kids for 13 hours. That's fine. But the flight was okay. And as we sort of were coming into land, I thought, oh, you know, we've done it. We can do it. We can do long haul. And then I just looked at Joe and I saw his little face turn green. And I went, oh, God. And he just spewed all over the floor. and I had like an empty water cup which I just grabbed and like shoved it under his face and like he vomited and it was bright pink because all he would eat on the plane is watermelon he wouldn't eat any of the other foods so he vomited all this watermelon into this cup and then like I was trying to clean it up with one hand but I couldn't put the sit down and like so I just turned to Pete and I had to hand him a cup of warm bright pink sit and I just went happy birthday darling this is 48 cheers cheers so yeah there was that um so yes i'm i'm you know as always we had a lovely holiday i'm very glad that we were able to go and also you cannot escape fucking parenting

40:21Scummy Mummies: no shit going well no no so i was in charge of face painting at the winter fair and i might i got away with i didn't have to do very much like i was like oh great there's loads of really good you know, good at it. And I was like, oh, great, all these mums doing it. And it got to the end and some little girl said, oh, have you got time for them? And I was like, oh, shit, all these good mums have gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want a glittery tiger. And I was like, okay, okay. So I started trying to do the cat bit here. They're like, I'm doing between your nose and your mouth. There's a special little pivot.

40:53Scummy Mummies: Anyway, I was trying to do those two lines. I thought, I think they should meet. I think they should meet. I did a hit-latash on a five-year-old girl. wow and I suddenly looked at her and was like oh my god you know it's like so funny but in a way that it mustn't be so I literally repressed any I was like this is not happening it is not funny because mum was right there and then very hastily I like tried to make the mouth bigger added some whiskers and like initially the base of the design child looks like Brian bless you yeah the base of the design was a Hitler tag and I was like chuck glitter get glitter like just how can we hide but I had to like suck it all in like I couldn't do any shoulder shoulder.

41:34Scummy Mummies: I was like, it doesn't exist. No. I haven't done it. No. Because if you for a second give in to this, the mum will look and she'll clock it. And the poor little girl. And at the end, anyway, she was covered in orange glitter. She was really happy. And I was like, it looks nice. It looks nice. It looks nice.

41:48Cariad Lloyd: She's like, thank you.

41:49Scummy Mummies: And then I was like, shut, close, close. Yeah. No, we don't. We can't do this anymore. Later, glitler.

41:58Cariad Lloyd: I am. I just wanted to end with a little bit of advice. The other day I was feeling sad. a bit bit grievy grievy day a bit grievy going through a bit of a hard time and I rang my boyfriend and I thought I'll ask his advice and then he said to me don't be sad don't be sad beautiful don't be sad don't be sad don't be sad I said I don't think it works like that but you know what I mean I was like yes I said now that's our catchphrase whatever yes don't be sad don't be sad and you said if only I could say to my mother don't be dead but you see Elbro small problem with physics oh god

42:37Scummy Mummies: well I think that's a good motto to end on yeah my grief motto don't be sad don't be sad guys your new book coming out 2027 don't be sad get over it it's a follow up

42:51Cariad Lloyd: don't be sad how to stop moaning and just move on like Harry Adloyde Jesus someone would buy it man

42:56Scummy Mummies: I'd probably get a book deal of it

42:58Cariad Lloyd: I wouldn't be very good Don't be sad. It's hard to be sad. Oh, beautiful, beautiful times. Well, there we go. So your books, Lydia Marmanade and the Christmas Wish. And where did she go? And of course, the, you are not alone. The grief cast are all available. When is your book out, Helen Thorne? On the 2nd of April. And yours will be coming along. Carrie had amazing advice, isn't that? When I did the audio book last week, I read, you know, your chapter, the grief chapter, and the audio man said, he has done a lot of self-help books in his time and he said it was really helpful and he learned a lot and it was good.

43:34Cariad Lloyd: And I was like,

43:35Scummy Mummies: well, that's because I asked you. Thank you, Cariad. That was excellent. By the post, I bet Amazon would offer you a deal if you bought mine and yours. Yes, yes. The Don't Be Sad collection. Don't Be Sad. Cariad. Oh, that's the new podcast.

43:48Cariad Lloyd: I'll do that now.

43:49Scummy Mummies: Don't joke to me about anything sad. Just come on. Don't be sad. Don't be sad.

43:53Cariad Lloyd: Yeah, sad. It's a good rule for life. Yeah. If life was... A fucking very simple maths question, which it isn't. But anyway, don't be sad. So there we go. Now we're off on tour endlessly. Yes. Oh, gosh, I'm so excited, Ellie. Where are we going? We're going to lovely Benenden, the Benenden school. Benenden. Benenden, which is a lovely place. Manchester, again, on the 18th of March. It'd be marvellous if you and all 200 of your friends would come to that one. We're coming to Newbury, Cambridge. We're doing the Stratford-upon-Avon Literary Festival. Yes, we have. That would be lovely. Back to Norwich.

44:38Cariad Lloyd: Yes, please. To South Norwood. Yes. Devizes, Tiverton, Watford, Eastleigh. Yes, Norwich is in the 2nd of July. Wells, Hartlepool, Ulverston, Chester. And that's all just till the summer. Yeah, I know. And we're doing two marvellous festivals. Cat Festival and Big Feastival Ellie yes anyway go to scummymummies.com for dates and tickets buy Cariad's things

45:02Scummy Mummies: yeah sure go Monday night a hoot yes Ostentatious at the Borderville Theatre or on tour you go to ostentatiousimpro.com or at austinimpro or at Cariad Lloyd on Instagram

45:13Cariad Lloyd: excellent excellent and what's your lovely podcast with Sarah called Weirdos Book Club Weirdos Book Club excellent give that a listen to well thank you so much for listening so just a reminder don't be sad until until next time bye bye adios

45:38Cariad Lloyd: also if you don't like reading I recommend the new series of Love is Blind which is set in Ohio oh my god we need to talk about this have you seen it we have started it's very very very good yes I've been of lunatics so far but I I heard I won't obviously spoil it, but I had a spoiler today that made me think, oh, I'm going to keep going. It's about to get weird. Yes, the man is a bad man. Don't spoil it! We literally just said no fucking spoilers!

46:05Scummy Mummies: I literally just said no spoilers! I love that the spoiler is the man is a bad man. Like she's in Princess Bride. She knows! Don't tell me! I don't want to know. I wrote on Instagram and I didn't want to see it, but now I know. There's no spoilers. what do you see that I haven't seen on Instagram it's so hard to not see something on Instagram and then be like oh they've got out did they now it's hard we can't these days you have to accept you're going to get something yeah just a little yeah it's true well I'll just read the last page of your books