335: Dame Mama G on panto, BGT and Bungle from Rainbow

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0:35hello scumbags this is the scummy mummies podcast with your hosts ellie gibson and helen thorne

0:48Ellie Gibson: hello and welcome to the scummy mummies podcast it's me ellie gibson and it's me Helen Thorne. My voice is breaking. You did sound like a pubescent 14-year-old boy. Well, I'm aiming to play Dick Whittington in the Catford Panto next year. So that's absolutely, that's what we're going for. Now, speaking of which, who is our guest today? Ellie, I'm delighted for we have a dame in our presence. We do. Not Judi Dench. No. As if anyone was expecting that. Or Kelly Holmes. Those are the two dames that we know. Yes. Is that definitely all the Danes? I can't think of any others. Yes. No. All right. So who is our guest today?

1:31Ellie Gibson: It's Dame Mamma G. Hello. Hello. Yes. Do you like to go by Mamma G or would you prefer that we used your other name? Mamma G is fine. Excellent. Because no one knows that there's an alternative version, an alternative universe of me. Oh, you know. I know and you know. Yes. Some of the lucky few now. Yes. That know the truth. I mean, why don't you introduce yourself for the listener? For the listener. Well, I'm not Judi Dench. I'm not Helen Mirren. I'm not Maggie Smith. Helen Mirren! That's a good one. I can't believe you forgot Helen Mirren. I'm not even Christopher Biggins. Now, I'm Mama G. I'm a storytelling pantomime Dane.

2:09I tell stories about being who you want and loving who you are to children and their families and anyone who'll listen all over the country.

2:16Ellie Gibson: Like a Martin Luther King of panto. absolutely i shall be putting that on my edinburgh poster this year and just to cause a bit of controversy more than anything oh no but most importantly uh i i play the dame two days a year at the church up the road from where you both live and that's why i'm here that is all that qualifies you to be on this podcast it's really that in fact the problem is is that judy dench is overqualified isn't she she wants to be on this podcast so badly but you're like no No, she keeps emailing and I just go, what, are you going to come and talk about fucking Shakespeare?

2:52Ellie Gibson: Fuck off. How boring. And she's old enough to have done that. I was in James Bond, blah, blah, blah. Bless her. Bless her. All right, but you're not coming on the show. No. So we love the church panto. The amazing Rose, the hammer hammock, who is, of course, our set designer and Rosie and close personal friend. She does the sets for it. And yes, you are absolutely amazing in it. Thank you. My dad is, you make my dad unwell. In a good way. He just thinks, he laughs a lot harder at you in the panto than he does at our show. Yes, I've never seen him laugh that much. No, really? Okay, that's what your real laughter is.

3:32Oh, well, I'm sorry, but maybe you should try putting on dresses and wicks. I mean, I don't have to. Isn't that virtually what you do? No, so it's Pirate Panto, is that right? Yes, so it's run by Gabrielle and Ollie. who live in East Dulwich. I'm just going to GDPR out the window, what it is.

3:51Ellie Gibson: 244. And they've, Gabrielle and Olly are both very experienced panto performers. And I think Gabrielle's mum goes to the church on One Tree Hill, which is probably one of the most romantic church addresses in London, I think. And it's an amazing location, right? Yeah. And not when you're walking up there. No. That's disgusting. But it's beautiful when you get there. and for like the last 10 years they've run uh pirate pantos which is just a group of professional actors that get together put on a panto for two days and raise loads of money for lay at the church uh a homeless charity in croydon and then one of the performers gets to select a charity that the rest of the money goes to and it's uh absolutely madness because we we just rehearse as and when which means quite often the first time the whole group of people are together is the first performance which i think you can tell oh it's a joy and and and as you say you guys do it all for free um and no one gets paid but all the money goes to charity and it's yeah it's it's joy on every season and this year we raised 11 000 pounds wow which took the total over the however many years to over 100 grand wow that's gone to charities which is really cool god imagine what you could have done with that money.

5:08Ellie Gibson: I know. I think actually I might suggest this for next year. The third charity should be one of the performers. Yes. We have, we've had acrobatic people and people from the West End. We had an Olivier winner in it this year. Judi Dench. Judi Dench is desperate to be in it. But we say no, Judi, you bring down the tone. Superb. And it happens, obviously, you guys all do your professional pantos. So it usually happens at the end of January, beginning of February. Yes. So what you're also getting at that point is a group of people who are absolutely knackered. Yeah. Just trying to do something to get them through January, which is also knackering them out even further.

5:50But it's just, it's so much fun. Everyone backstage is so committed to it. Yeah. And there's such a wide variety of people because there are some people from the church who do it who aren't theatre people at all. And that's really fun to just see how much fun they get out of it. But then you have like theatre people. who want it to be right. That's really cool. And the amount of arguments we have, actually, meet Gabrielle and Ollie over the stupidest stuff. Like, no, it's... Oh, no, it isn't. Oh, no, it isn't.

6:20Ellie Gibson: Wait, which is right? I don't... Oh, no, it... I would say, oh, no, it isn't. Oh, no, it isn't. Oh, no, it isn't, yeah. It's different. Well, the thing is, I guess the emphasis should be on no because you want the audience to know what they've got to say back. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yes. Let's not fall out. Panto is a science, you see, as we're discovering, and not a lot of people realise that. No, it's very serious, art form. Absolutely. Let's go back then. Let's go back to the Mama G origin story, like that film about Wolverine, but about Mama G. Where did she come from? Okay well The true story is that Because there is a fake I want both Okay the true story is quite boring Basically I was doing a production Of Mother Goose at the Brighton Fringe With my company Petite Pantos And we needed a way of Promoting the show because obviously When you're at a fringe everyone's promoting stuff The same way and we got an opportunity To do a little performance on the lawn Outside the pavilions but nobody else Could come and join me so I just had to do it as mother goose and the kids went berserk and i was like huh i know we're in brighton but i think i think the kids quite enjoy this i think i found the goose that shit's golden eggs and literally the next week i contacted a a vegan cafe in brighton and was like do you want to do some is there any other cafe in brighton no to be fair which one this it was it's called the cowley cafe it's quite good it's like a socialist cafe as well i got i got ready in their socialist library Does that mean you don't have to pay for your socialist coffee?

8:02Ellie Gibson: You just pay for your coffee according to your means? Maybe it does, actually. It was quite a long time ago, but it was quite fun getting ready surrounded by Marx and Nietzsche and stuff. It's what they would have wanted. Absolutely. And then people just awkwardly coming in and going, oh, do you know where the... No, I don't even know who that is, let alone where they are on the shelf. Just looking for the means of production. never mind so I said can we do some panto dame storytelling and they were up for it and honestly that is the first time that people in my 20 year career have taken an interest in what I'm doing and it just snowballed from there I work at the unicorn theater which is a beautiful theater for children and they wanted to do a pride event that year and I just said to the producer oh what about this they went yeah and I was like that's not bad can only cafe to unicorn theater in a couple of weeks and we've just i've just gone on from there so what were you doing before you were a panto dame well i've been a panto dame for like 20 years and now i don't look old enough no thank you when i was three years old uh but i'd be like an actor and writer and stuff as well but i only really enjoy doing panto yeah like i've done shakespeare and i've done musicals i worked to Tommy Steele on a big musical stop it no for real yeah that's amazing Panto's where I really enjoy yeah why wouldn't you because it's because I'm actually before we go any further I'm conscious that the audience this is international so Panto is a very quintessential English could you what a thing to throw in this is an international podcast do you know that my sister listens to it in Australia well alright hello hello hell is this that is pan too serious is it not is it not a thing in australia no do people have a concept of what it is yes but only through watching you know uk tv like we we don't have that christmas tradition that you guys do right um so when i came to this country i was like oh oh okay so every year one goes to these shows at their local theater and buys whizzy lights and yeah families go and it's a big thing and it's um because the concept of like is of vaudeville and you know bawdy humor and we're all really aware of that and you know uh i grew up with like kenny everett and benny hill and all that sort of stuff not that's anything like panto but the flight and you know faulty towers and are you being served that kind of flavor of humor so i kind of got that but um no we don't have panto in australia right so what is a panto is that the big question Well, I would say Panto, a quick description is it's a big musical extravaganza that's a retelling of a fairy tale.

10:56And it's aimed at children, but makes everybody laugh.

11:00Ellie Gibson: Because it's quite often got filth in it. Insanely rude. It's all innuendo. It's all innuendo. And I say, if the children are laughing, that's on you. That's got nothing to do with what we're saying. um and it's it's very spectacular big scenery big sets big personalities lots of musical numbers lots of slapstick um men dressing as women women dressing as men anybody dressing as an animal and pop songs musical theater songs it's kind of crazy isn't it before you try and explain it all the joys of life though like you know all the things call and response yeah and the most insane thing about it is it really permeates british culture because if someone says oh no it isn't you have to reply oh yes it is yeah if someone can't find something and they go it's behind you you'd be like oh no it's not it's like when someone says i've got the key and you have to say i've got the secret yeah absolutely or question tell me what you think about me yes yeah it's and it's just it's just there yeah it's just in that it's in our culture and i think there are even british people who've probably never seen the pantomime but fully understand And the concept of that pantomime interaction, I think the big thing about Panto, now we know what it is, is at the heart of it is like community and spirit and love and togetherness.

12:21And that's such a beautiful thing, especially at the moment when we've got people who are trying to separate everyone and destroy communities. And the fact that Panto can happen in a church at the top of a hill on cold February nights, but it can also happen at the London Palladium. and it can happen in a school hall and anyone can be in a panto. Vickers are in panto, teachers are in panto, you know, film stars are in panto and it's for everybody. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how little money you have. It laughs at the same things and encourages everyone to laugh together. It doesn't matter where you come from.

12:54It doesn't matter what gender you are. It doesn't matter what your sexuality is. It doesn't matter how old you are. Panto is like the one thing in this country that is literally trying to unify people and trying to bring people together. that's why I'm really passionate about it as you can probably tell because I've just done a just a minute no repeat no pause for the one I got it you won I'm very moved

13:19Ellie Gibson: that's my TED talk done and let's talk about panto dame specifically so it is tradition it is well is it pretty much always it is men yeah dressing up as men yeah women absolutely which you know could be problematic but no i think it's a it's a trope isn't it it's a genre and it definitely exists and i think the good thing about panto is that the hero is should be traditionally played by a woman yeah so there is that balance there and panto is all about being topsy-turvy but the pantomundane comes from shakespeare really because in shakespeare wasn't there weren't women weren't allowed to be on stage and so obviously men had to play all the female roles and then in sort of the 1700s when it was acceptable for women to be on stage people did realize it was still quite funny if the old lady was played by her man and I think the role's just sort of evolved and now for me personally I mean it's all in the name Mama G but the role is quite maternal quite motherly and it's not really that I think that's what a mum looks like it's more about the energy of a mum and I think it's a really special role to get to play you look you're funny you look glamorous and you get to do a bit of emotion occasionally yeah doesn't get better than that no not at all you're lighting shades exactly because there's there's sort of a obviously there's some similarities with drag i guess but it's different routes isn't it and it's different would you say it's quite a culturally different yeah this is a very big debate um i would say drag queens and pantomime dames are different things but then there are other people that would say they're the same thing and i think it's really hard to explain but I think they're two sides of the same queen but they're not they're not the same like a drag queen sort of starts with an adult audience and then can entertain children but you assume she's going to be for adults whereas a pantomime dame the assumption is the other way around that it's for a family audience and then can entertain just adults um but also I don't think necessarily a pantomime dame is trying to look like a woman or do that female illusion whereas quite often drag queens are that's their whole conceit um and i think panto dames are more character based like um for me growing up i one of the first panto i ever saw was i had hinge and bracket in who were a double act who were female impersonators but they played the characters so truthfully i don't think you could describe them as drag queens right because i don't think I just don't think they were.

15:54They were playing true characters. And I don't think you can call Dame Edna a drag queen because Dame Edna is a living, breathing entity who is a fully committed character. And I think the Panto Dame is more along that sort of line.

16:10Ellie Gibson: Tell us about the costumes, because quite often Helen and I, we do our show at theatres that have pantos on and our favourite thing is to wander around backstage with all the gittery bits of stuff. She's incredible. and just rifle through the dresses. And he gives us ideas for our next show. It's just, yeah. Yeah. All the costumes are incredible. That's one of my favourite things about doing panto is just how ridiculous they are. I've dressed up as a picnic table before, which is rather fun. I think you might have seen, not this year, the year before, my disco ball outfit. Oh my God. We talked about it for days.

16:43Yeah. Oh, how do we rip that off? It's made out of cardboard. Oh my God. Rose can absolutely make it Rose is just incredible She is She's been making our sets for years She's amazing What else have I dressed? I've dressed as a Christmas tree This year in Hertford I dressed as a chandelier Which was really fun Did you get to keep that costume? No I've got quite a lot of my own costumes But because I tour around a lot I go to libraries and theatres, museums You never know what space you're walking into Also I've got quite a small car So everything has to fit in the car So all my costumes are more traditional, a lot of bell-shaped Dame dresses.

17:22But even then, they're still quite outrageous. Lots of rainbows, lots of glitter. Glitter's the most important thing for me. I did like your jazzy jumpsuit, or tracksuit. Oh, yeah, my pride tracksuit. Oh, my God, it's gorgeous. Did you make that yourself? Oh, no, sadly not. A person called Bald Eagle Designs, who I met on TikTok, makes a lot of stuff for drag queens. But I just... The thing about being a Dame is it is quite uncomfortable. Right. uh so i sometimes you spend especially me because i do prides and everything i'm spending all day in these outfits and i was like i just need something that's going to be comfortable so i i had this idea for a tracksuit and we went back and forth over the design and now i think it's one of my favorite costumes because not only is it really sparkly i think i look really good in here i know that was the standard because i have you know one of your it was yeah your jazzy tracksuit and then the yellow wig which was just oh it's just huge isn't it yes it's like yeah it's almost like a halo yeah i don't wear that very often because your neck gets a little bit creased oh but it's suffering but it's worth it because even i've had some friends who sent me videos of that and i look back on it like everything is worth it yeah because i just look amazing don't know what i'm gonna do next year i'm running out so when you put on these wigs

18:39Ellie Gibson: and these big costumes, do you do you feel like you've become Mama G, you become this other identity or is it just sort of you, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think for me personally a good Pantomam Deng is an extension of the performer because Pantomam works in such a weird way that even if the audience don't know you as an actor, they have to understand who you are as an actor so that when you break character they're on that journey with you as opposed to it being uncomfortable that you've broken character. So Mamma G is definitely just a larger than life version of the tiny weak person underneath.

19:24Mary Demir! Mary Demir! But also like, so I think my voice is a bit heightened and I'm a bit, I feel a bit bigger and a bit granular. I actually feel a lot more personally comfortable as Mamma G than I do in my you know normal yeah just I think I feel more confident it does it's like um some people say it gives you permission or it gives you a absolutely just be that bit more naughty yeah and not just that I think there is a I think there's a social thing as well I'm reading at the minute a book called something murder in Soho what's that it's in my bag I could find that but I I won't. It's by Holly Starrs.

20:07He's a drag queen and it's a murder mystery. And the character in that is also a drag queen and ends up having to investigate a murder that's happened at her drag club. And in real life, the character is a non-binary person. But when they go out and investigate the murders, they dress up as their drag character because it gives them more confidence. And whilst I do believe that's quite an extreme version of what we're talking about, and it's not something I would do investigate a murder

20:35Ellie Gibson: you never know that would be a very different podcast I would 100 % watch a Murder, She Wrote reboot but Jessica Fletcher is a pantomime day that would be great wouldn't it actually we'll pitch that, we'll work on that after this oh no it's not but I was like that is just a more a slightly more extreme version of how I feel and increasingly the more Mama G because the other thing because Mama G is quite social I do prides in you know all these situations actually a pantomime dame shouldn't be in we were born for the stage but the more that Mama G is in those situations the more confident I become to deal with those situations as myself whoever that is yeah I would I kind of understand what you mean because like when Ili and I go out on stage together you know from the get-go we wore really you know fun tight silly but very fabulous outfits yeah yeah yeah well in the beginning they weren't fabulous were they not you know what getting they were smithy's joke shop gold catsuits from amazon yeah they put like 20 quid because we had no money yeah and we were charging like five quid a ticket and we would make i think about 50 quid a month after you know writing for weeks and weeks so they looked shit and stupid but in a funny way that i think that made people relax yeah yeah yeah exactly we really pitched ourselves but also uh they were saying we've got nothing to hide you know yeah you know these are our bodies this is you know it's it there was a panto-esque yeah element and and i feel like that's our show is like that there's there's so much silliness to it like we do lots of sketches and big silly you know um numbers and things like that and now we're doing more sort of like video projections and stuff but it does feel like a panto you know every day of the year and and that and that's you know and you can see that in in our audience as well they you know because it's like 99 % mums that they're just having like a proper release a proper night off you know yeah and And it's not, we're not, we're not, we're not going to win any awards at Edinburgh for, you know, really hard hitting, groundbreaking comedy.

22:47It's just really fun. And I think that's a, that's a skill in itself as well. Like it's, you know. Absolutely. And I think it's really important to value that people deserve and are allowed to go to the theatre and have a good time. Yeah. Like you're allowed to read books that are easy to read and fun to read. And they're not easy to write. Like there's a real skill in life. Oh yeah, absolutely. Like entertaining. Yeah, absolutely. yeah i go and see a lot of pantos every year and quite often i'm surprised at how hard it looks yeah and if it looks hard then it's not going well a good panto should look so easy that the audience leave going i think i can do that and you're like oh you can't yeah thank you for telling me i made it look that easy yeah but it should look like mates just sticking about you know and like making each other laugh on stage absolutely you you you know when a cast likes it yeah that's the most important thing yeah is is when the audience and it goes back to the audience understanding who the actors are yeah they have to see the most important thing is seeing people have fun on stage if you're having fun then the audience know that they can have fun but you can't you can't go over the limit if you have too much fun then the audience starts I have paid 25 pounds to be here actually you could remember that yeah we're also in this building yeah yeah and i i've definitely over egged that and pushed it too far and lost the crowd but you know we only learn when we're on stage don't we you have to be exactly exactly

24:15Ellie Gibson: helen and i are prone to that if not i would say very rarely but sometimes if it's not going that well maybe it's just like it's a tuesday or it's in a weird venue or it's just whatever reason the audience is they're just a bit quiet we never have like dead air but it's just a bit like sometimes we will just start saying stupid shit to make each other laugh which is very unprofessional probably very annoying but it's I like but you know it's just like oh well I know you've got to do it I know because you start going a bit silly because you're like oh what am I doing with my life why are we all here in Lincoln in on a Tuesday why are we in Lincoln no I understand that and that one of my favourite jokes and I remember this from when I was a kid I saw John Inman from Are You Being Served play Widow Tranky oh wow in Plymouth and he was doing a balloon ballet, I think.

25:06So he was dressed in a tutu. And then I think the other guy who was with him was the original Bungle from Rainbow. And he was dressed up as like...

25:14Ellie Gibson: But how would people know? How would people know? That's why you buy programmes. We could have been fucking Chewbacca. A little word, a secret here is you are also sat next to a Bungle from Rainbow. Why didn't you? You can't tell us that. We're 29 minutes in. 29 minutes in oh you kept that under your hat not a lot of people know that well they will now even one person in Australia but how'd you get to be you knew you knew this would happen yes now for Australians Rainbow is an absolutely lunatic show where a man with a brother and sister who may or may not have been in a relationship and then there's a hippo and a thing that's just got a zip for a mouth and a bear When you explain it, it really doesn't make any sense.

26:06Ellie Gibson: Someone was high. Presumably because you are only 25. You weren't in the original 80s. No, I was in the stage show. But I was in the stage show for about five years. And I, because I was, I am old enough to have watched Rainbow as it came on screens. And I was obsessed with it. And I just saw an advert in the stage actually saying they needed actors for live Rainbow. And I was like, let's go. Here I am. The producer also produced the City show at the time. and the most disappointing thing I've ever experienced is looking through the, it was a dance attic and they've got windows into the rooms, looking through the window and just seeing like loads of sooty sweeps and shoes tied together by their necks.

26:46I was like, oh, this is very distressing, very distressing.

26:50Ellie Gibson: Like a brace of pheasant. Literally. It was horrible. Oh gosh, it's been a murder. Yeah, it was soul destroying. Oh gosh. And then I went into the audition and they wanted to see how we were with like skin work. Because Bungle's a big... Is that what it's called? Skin work? Fucking hell. It's like serial murder. Murdered sooties and all that. Yeah, isn't it terrible? He's a big mascot costume, obviously. And I put the head on and then I put Bungle's hands on. And then it was just my body. And I was in the mirror trying to look how the mouth worked and how the hands worked. And I think I felt physically sick.

27:28because I was like, I'm having an out-of-body experience because I am looking at Bungle, but it's my body.

27:35Ellie Gibson: That's like a bad weird dream. Yeah, it was really strange. David Lynch film. And then I played Bungle for like five years all over the country. Goodness me. Yeah. You've lived a life. Oh, I have. You have lived a life. My God. But what's that like then? Because obviously like when you and I go out on stage and indeed you as Mama G, you obviously, there's a bit of you and the audience looking at you. but how does it feel to know the audience aren't really seeing you they are seeing this fucking bear it's quite bizarre but it's also doing stuff like that it does still take like quite a lot of acting because you know in mask work and stuff you have to act and for some reason you can see the expression on the mask from what the actor's doing it's really like i'm still i'm still having to be like the emotion of bungle whatever he was upset about i think it was a birthday party that he was trying to plan for zippy or something he's a bit of a prick in the old show he is he is but he's sort of a bit eoy isn't he he's a bit of a grump yeah he's the authoritative figure that will try and ruin everything um but one day we were performing at embarking and the original bungle came to watch which he which was he was friends with john inman and the and he was really lovely about it and but he he was like he what came up to me afterwards and he like said your bungle was very good i don't think he had that much of a limp wrist though oh my god gay bungle that is exclusive you did the worst original bungle you always thought he was a bit of a prick turns out he's a late he's a latent homophone the act the actor's very lovely and he's a very well-known pantomime dame now but to go back to my story which does also involve justice for fake bungle there's a t-shirt I need so I watched this original bungle doing this ballet with John Inman and there's a scene where the fake bungle the original bungle goes through John Inman's legs the wig comes off John Inman lifts up his tutu and it looks like you know a ladies area and I can't remember why I was telling this story now but I really like it and I just remember John Inman going everyone's in laughter, laughter, girls are laughing people are crying with laughter and John Inman just goes do you mind?

29:59There are two fully grown men up here trying to earn a living and it's one of my favourite lines ever, I try and use it whenever I can, it's lines like that I was at drama school for three years with her I was actually saying to someone this morning when I'm doing like stuff that's really going badly. Like there's one Halloween party I did with my friend who's an artist and the whole thing just went to pot really quickly. We had no control over the room. And I just said to her under my breath, I was like, I was on Britain's Got Talent. You've got to have that. They're your magic spells. I was like, I just need to, can I just need to remember this about myself?

30:36I've actually had quite a successful career. Yes. And there's another one that I like saying. Oh, this is a brilliant book I read, at Storytime's called Rainbow Soros and you get the kids to do all the animal noises and it's really silly and then there's like a donkey or a turkey or something and you're going what noise did a turkey make? And then you just look at the parents and go I do have a career, this is my career. I love that.

31:04Ellie Gibson: I love it, I love it. Now you did mention Britain's Got Talent. I just threw that in there. You were less impressed than Rainbow though. I mean rainbow is just now i'm just like did george and zippy get on in real life like it's fascinating oh well the george and zippy that i was on tour with are married oh they're lovely i went to their wedding yeah oh do they do they bicker like as a couple like george and i i don't know them very well anymore but they certainly did the toe i imagine they do now and they've got a really lovely son who I think is probably going to be theatrical as well. That's so nice.

31:45Ellie Gibson: Shout out to the movie. Beautiful. Rod, Jane and Freddie though. What was going on there? That was fucking weird. I don't know. Well, there wasn't a word for polyamory in those days, I suppose. Just Rod, Jane and Freddie.

32:00Ellie Gibson: Oh, anyway, sorry. Yes, Britain's Got Talent. So how did all that come about? That was during the pandemic. and they really wanted when they came back they really wanted something super british on it and obviously panto is pre it was either you or nigel farage exactly exactly some guys with some flags yeah yeah that's do you know what would be so different now wouldn't it if they asked for that um but uh one of their producers just put something on facebook saying need try to get in touch with panto dames if you know anyone and uh one of my friends phoned me and was like you need to message this person right now so i got in touch we had a phone call and basically they were looking to put a group of pantomime dames together wow and uh i said yeah of course yeah here we are and we had such a good time and you ended up being like the leader weren't you because you came out first yeah i did so what happens is uh they wanted it to be originally so it looked like it was going to be one pantomime dame then when the song starts the others sort of pop up around on the theatre in in the end we just came on from each side of the stage because it's very complicated because they also only gave us three minutes and I was like how do you yeah some of these guys they're not going to be able to get down from the balcony in time to get the last note yeah they'll come on during the second act if this is what you want to do um so but yeah we we got they put us together and I there was a few dames involved that I wanted to work with so you know we were able to pick and choose people some people dropped out some people we gained extra people along the way um and unfortunately for me i'm i'm quite a doer like i just like to get things done and britain's got talent told us exactly what they wanted like they wanted a medley of songs some jokes and they wanted us to come on bit by bit and we were sort of dithering around and i was like well someone's got to write it and i do write pantomimes and i was like let me just do like a treatment and we'll see.

33:54Oh, knock something together. Yeah, exactly. Tell me what songs you want, I'll make it work. And then that is eventually the thing that got through. So I was like, well, it looks like we're doing that now. Then when we had our first rehearsal, which was at Stanley Arts down in South Norwood.

34:09Ellie Gibson: Where we're doing a show. We are in May. Great. Thank you for dropping that in. 15th of May. We love Stanley Arts. Great venue. I used to produce the panto there. Don't anymore. Some beef, but we don't need to spoil that.

34:23it's a big yeah but we had our first rehearsal at south at stanley arts and our choreographer was like so who's who's gonna come on first and literally everyone just looked at me and i was like my trap has worked because really the you you and you needed to be the person to come on first to get the most mileage out of the situation yeah yeah and they were like he's done bungle like well it turns out everyone else just didn't want to do it they were like you'd be the you'd be the full person i was like i don't mind i'll take the risk i'll chat to the judges and then i and then my picture was one of the primary like promo pictures they use for us i was in like heat magazine as in the newspapers and i was that's essentially why i wanted to do it thank you please um but just before we went on uh we were hiding around the corner from the judges because they're not allowed to see you and we've gone around the corridor and then a researcher had come down and said who's talking to the judges and i was like me and they said some things i might talk about asked me if there's anything i didn't want to talk about um and then they went back and then my best friend who was one of the other danes he turned around to me and he said if you get four buzzers before the rest of us come on and i was like oh that hadn't even occurred to me and then the others were like that's why we didn't want to do it i was like oh no tell me I know it hadn't even occurred to me.

35:48No, I wouldn't have thought that either. I just had that blind faith that everything was going to be okay. And it was. And it was. It was brilliant. And so you went through to the next round. Yeah, we got through to the semifinals, which was really fun. We had a really great process. They wanted basically the same thing, which is one of their traps. Because then Simon Cowell's like, you did exactly the same thing. And you can't say, that's what we were asked to do. because also we like none of us really had any much tv experience so it's hard to be thinking three steps ahead when you don't know what all the different barriers are yeah but we

36:26Ellie Gibson: again we're just really enjoying the experience but also it's pantomime danes did he want you to come on and do some ibsen right what more can we do it's really hard to do panto in three minutes anyway like what do you want but i was like i'm just genuinely really happy to be here yeah and they said well just write something and just throw everything at it so we had this meeting I was like what does everyone want to do people like this this this this this I went away and wrote the most ridiculous thing you've ever seen we were flying in as chandeliers we're doing this blah blah blah um and then we had a meeting with the producers and the only thing that stayed apart from the lyrics was us flying in and they could only do four it's always been my dream to fly so I said yes and if I have one regret in my life it is saying yes why it was absolutely terrifying that doesn't sound like my face like on a zip wire yeah like on no wires and we we had it was kind of good because we had we had loads of technical rehearsal because it's a safety thing um but so we had like an hour at the hammersmith apollo just the four of us felt really special fully up for that but they they clipped us in and then they were like we're just going to take you up as high as the system will go and then we'll drop you down to just before we can see your feet so we actually know how high each of you needs to go up and i was like yeah fine absolutely fine literally a meter off the ground i was like i've made a triple mistake i've made a triple mistake and then we just keep going really slowly and then we went above the proscenium so you could see the gap between the proscenium arch and the actual wall of the theater and we were like looking because then how much was polys to be a cinema right right and we were actually looking at like the projection booth at the back of the room and i was like this is too high this is too high it's actually making my feet sweat thinking about it now not to name drop this is completely random now but one of my friends did panter with irene from home and away looked at the australian yes yes yes for clarification she's a legend and she's really scared of heights and she flew because she wanted to be brave and she told me uh when i went to see the show that the worst thing for her was having to spend time looking at that wall at the top of above the presidium where the safety curtain would be because she was like humans are not supposed to see that so all you're doing is hanging up there going why am I looking at this wall why am I looking at this wall and that's then when I was up at the Havistrit of Polyvice Hall I could think about oh my god the things you do for your craft I know and I it's not that much regret because I'm really proud of myself for doing it i will never no do it again no more fly no no but would you go on bgt again was it a good experience oh yeah i had a really really good time i think we are probably one of the few groups that has generally had a good time because a lot of there's a lot of trauma and drama stories from bgt but i think we we had quite a good experience they did try to trip us up a few times but i don't think we came out badly in it and i think we were respected enough as a group of performers yeah that they were fine with it and i think we all knew we weren't going to go further than the semi-finals and i was like let's just go as far as we can as we can what it is yeah yeah because simon cow is almost a sort of panto villain himself absolutely was he was it is he like that sort of is that just does that is he does he switch that on when the camera i think so he seemed really nice actually simon gave us a buzzer in our semi-final and then uh got booed so badly by the audience and the other judges that he took it away i know but the great thing and if you go on the Wikipedia we're one of only two groups in the entire history of VGT that that's happened to.

40:04Ellie Gibson: Like Prince Andrew being stripped of his title. There's a good clip somewhere online where Ant and Dex say to me if you've got anything you want to say to Simon Cowell and I just look straight at him I'm really sweaty which is gross but I look straight at him and I go every pantomime needs a villain and it looks like we've found ours. It's really great. Oh that's divine and not a stutter just straight in. Straight in, yeah. Because also the semi-finals are live. So actually it's so much scarier having a microphone handed to you when you know there's millions of people watching. You just don't know what's going to come out of your mouth.

40:41Ellie Gibson: So what is it like then to be in that super group? Because is there, what's it like in the community of Panto Dames? Because there's obviously not, I mean, there's not hundreds of you. Is it competitive? Is it bitchy? I thought it was going to be that. and I was actually quite nervous but it was actually incredibly supportive and we've been quite supportive of each other since and actually I think the Panto community as a whole is quite supportive because you're doing something really niche and really special. Is it quite a close-knit community or is everybody just kind of doing their own thing?

41:15I mean, you sort of keep an eye on what other people are up to and these where, because also as people start to announce where they're doing Panto, you're like, okay, well, it's not on the list anymore. where is available for me let's see um yeah then you but i don't know because also that we're spread all over the country and there's generally only one professional pantomime in each town or city um but i think you know online you do keep up you do keep up with what people are doing as long as everyone acknowledges that i'm the best we're fine absolutely without a doubt without a

41:51Ellie Gibson: So what's next for you and for Mama G? I've got a new book coming out, actually, called The Proudest Bird in the World, which is about a bird that discovers what the colours of the rainbow flag mean. Is it a metaphor? Thanks for some lesbian grandmas. Because there's not enough lesbian grandma representation in children's books. I agree. I can't remember seeing one. No. And do you know who I was told that by? Some lesbian grandmas. And I lobbed that away in my head. And I thought, I'm going to make your dreams a reality. You thought, I can exploit that niche. Yeah, exactly. Can't remember who those women were or where I met them.

42:27You're welcome, Deborah. Hopefully they'll listen to this. And then, yeah, I'm going to the Edinburgh Fringe in August. The whole of August.

42:35Ellie Gibson: And it's a family show you're doing? Yes, I'm taking up my panto, The Magic Bookmark, which is a storytelling panto about why it's important to include everyone in stories. It's got original songs by a comedian called Katie Pritchard. it's got puppetry magic lots of terrible jokes lots of audience interaction and it is it's on at 12.20 at Gilded Balloon Tevye so it's great it's going to be great for families but also and it's something I'm really keen because it will help me sell more tickets it's really good for just adults to come and see as well I'll be there I'll be there for everyone having seen you in Panter I would absolutely say to adults like just go it's so I mean ask my dad really he gives it six stars to hear you right yeah better than the scummy mummy I'll put that on the poster oh amazing now we're going to finish aren't we as is tradition with scummy mummy confessions okay so have you have you got one would you like to I have it happened quite recently okay go for it right last week I was doing a six year old birthday party in Islington and I was booked through a website that I use so I wasn't necessarily booked for the tone of my performance more the style of the performance so I've been quite careful throughout the entire thing not to be too like everyone's perfect everyone's wonderful two dads two mums lesbian grandmas being really careful to sort of avoid that but still gently get the message across but the most important thing I should say is I was wearing two pairs of tights and I was wearing my own underwear but I'd put some bloomers on over the top but I hadn't been able to find the bloomers I normally wear and the elastic had gone quite loose on these bloomers and so I was I really I had the audience I had the adults on side um but there was this one kid when all the other kids had come in he was amped up on suites I could tell he walked in and he went why are you a man and then I was like well this is gonna be really tricky now and then but then he got quite involved and then about a third of the way through the adults are laughing and I'm like I've really got them on side I think that's the most important thing and then this kid starts pointing at me going and i was like okay it's a kid's birthday party don't ruin it for everyone and he kept persisting and i went are you okay and he was like why are your knickers on the floor and my bloomers had fallen right down and that was why the adults were laughing and i was like oh my god i'm just like i'm so sorry i don't mean for that to happen and i was like why didn't anyone told me and one of the moms was like well we thought there was going to be a funny bit and i was like how long have they been down there she was like ages

45:12and i was like no i just didn't notice so and you know and i i do i do sometimes get a bit of flack from the right wing about whether i should be doing what i should be doing around children and i was like and now here i am just walking around a school hall with my knickers around the ankles i was like perfect and i've been so careful not to bring any of the like my positive messaging into this situation and he was swinging your pants about yeah shocking stuff

45:41Ellie Gibson: really oh well i'm gonna ring the daily mail momentarily and let them know what's really going on yeah uh so my confession is so my uh my little son he likes to you know say it say it how it is and uh uh the other day he it was sort of getting up to tea time and he said mum mum mum mum mum can I have two dinners and I said no you can have one dinner and if you're still hungry we'll we'll discuss it he went mum mum mum mum mum can I have two dinners and I went I've got two words for you Joseph shut and up uh and he went mum mum mum mum can I have two dinners and I went what what part of shut up did you not understand and he went none of it I don't speak bad mum and I was like oh I've been absolutely burned that's amazing and then I just started laughing and lost as always he made me laugh I lost all authority and I think he ended up having two dinners so that's absolutely amazing he is extraordinary Joe but it's quite a thing to be sick burned by your 11 year old it's quite like that's brilliant yeah so it was a good time but anyway now I don't know if you can hear a listener but there's someone doing some hoovering in the background so I think it might be time to end this and not a moment too late a moment too soon where can people find out more about you and follow you and what not I'm on the socials at Mamma G Stories on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube follow me there and all the BGT clips are on YouTube aren't they search for Dame Nation on BGT if you want to come and see me in Edinburgh it's Gilded Balloon whatever their website is and you'll have the whole month the whole month the 5th of August to the 31st of August you're doing the run oh my gosh and it will be all I'm talking about from the 1st of April we'll be sharing it we'll be sharing it please absolutely any admin from you Helen Thorne oh we have we've got the tour going down and around very much looking forward to going to Norwich Ellie are you yes on the 2nd of July also Ulverston yes never been and Manchester we've had to move the Manchester gig which is now happening in June?

47:59Ellie Gibson: The 24th Ellie and the next night Watford Palace Theatre and then on to the Bury Theatre in Southampton so I've been looking at our dates quite quite a lot right now I'm good to go and get my son because my other son hasn't appeared to pick him up thank you sorry shut up thank you thanks for listening everyone this is the Scummy Mummies podcast I've been Mamma G that was Helen see you next time bye thanks bye

48:43Ellie Gibson: I think that's the front door sorry talk amongst yourselves I might just open my can of coke oh do it I love it Someone called a can of Coke the other day a fridge cigarette, and I'm going with that. That makes absolute sense. Is this an addiction? Yeah, I think so. I like to buy a 24-pack of a box every week. That's my lot. That's not too bad. Hello. What's 24 to bed by seven? Three and a bit. Yeah, so about three cans a day. It's not too bad. Is that all for you? Sometimes I let the kids have some. Right, Kate. But, yes. I also drink quite a lot of Diet Coke, but I have to buy it each day. Very good.

49:24Which is not cost effective. No. But it is better, I think, for my internal organs. Yes, yes. Otherwise, I just drink loads of it. Yes, I can get through a two litre bottle without blinking in a day. And it's when the alternatives, I once tried to give up and I was like, well, I'll just drink Dr Pepper instead. And I was like, that's not really giving anything up, is it?

49:42Ellie Gibson: Well, it says doctor. It must be helpful. He's a doctor. Now, where were we?