In short
Andrew Missingham’s journey from adoption/foster care, music entrepreneurship, and high-pressure data/strategy work to nervous collapse recovery, gentle masculinity, and fatherhood—grounded in Vipassana meditation and “listening” as leadership.
Guest backgrounds
Andrew Missingham is a UK-raised (North London) drummer/record producer turned strategist/consultant. He played on top-40 UK singles, served as musical director on gold-certified recordings, and produced a landmark South African jazz album. He ran British Council music projects across 43 countries, led performing arts at London’s Institute of Contemporary Arts (ICA), and worked for Nike, Google, Unilever, Patreon, Discord, LA Philharmonic, and South Bank Centre. He has practised Vipassana for 1,300+ consecutive days and drums daily.
Key claims
“Nervous breakdown” is when old coping tools stop working (“I need new tools”). Recovery required reframing himself as a “good person,” treating behaviours as codependency/addiction patterns, and learning to feel emotions without fixing. Gentle masculinity = leading by listening; speak clearly without shouting.
Notable examples
At the ICA he built Blacktronica as a steady monthly home for culturally diverse audiences, including practical changes like marketing via community channels and adjusting ticketing/front-of-house processes for Nigerian names. During Vipassana he followed a “slower” Google Maps route that led him to thank his foster mother and care for his dementia-affected foster father.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOGuest Introduction: Andrew Missingham
0:45 to 2:07
Overview of Andrew's background and accomplishments in music and culture.
“to be one of the finest South African jazz albums ever made.”
Early Life and Family Dynamics
2:07 to 5:54
Andrew shares his upbringing, family struggles, and the impact on his life.
“So could you start by sharing with me where you were raised and by whom?”
Creating a New Path: Foster Care Journey
5:54 to 7:23
Andrew discusses his decision to create a third option in his living situation.
“And I was raised by my foster siblings and my friends around me.”
Unlearning Erroneous Lessons
7:23 to 8:56
Andrew reflects on the lessons he had to unlearn about self-reliance.
“What was the specific thing that you felt you had to unlearn?”
Discovering Drumming and Music Career
8:56 to 11:15
Andrew narrates how drumming entered his life and led to a career in music.
“And how did drumming actually enter your life?”
Theatre and Performance Arts Education
11:15 to 14:00
Andrew discusses his education in performance arts and its influence on creativity.
“And so what I studied was performance arts, a very pioneering course at Middlesex Polytechnic it was then, in the beautiful surroundings of Trent Park at the end of the Piccadilly line.”
The Evolution of a Creative Career
14:00 to 18:11
Learn about Andrew Missingham's journey from aspiring musician to entrepreneur.
“And we basically studied it like a Bible.”
Problem Solving as a Career Philosophy
18:11 to 21:05
Explore how problem-solving shaped Andrew's business approach and personal growth.
“And in the business that I grew and sold back in 2023, B &A, I was very adamant early on that we only call our people problem solvers.”
Cultural Programming at the ICA
21:05 to 27:13
Discover Andrew's impactful work in promoting cultural diversity at the ICA.
Supporting Artists Behind the Scenes
27:13 to 28:00
Understand the importance of creating supportive environments for artists.
“And therefore, you know, that political decision of who you open the door to, that's very much what I was trying to do.”
Show all 26 chapters
Introduction to Hyone and Its Impact
28:00 to 29:34
Learn about Hyone, a female-founded brand that supports craftsmanship in Greece.
“What they've built together in just a few years is extraordinary.”
Andrew's Journey to Recovery
29:55 to 33:25
Discover Andrew's personal story of a nervous breakdown and the tools he needed for recovery.
“And so I know that in 2020, you had what you describe as a nervous collapse.”
The Evolution of Coping Mechanisms
33:25 to 41:37
Andrew discusses how his coping mechanisms failed him and led to a breakdown.
“That, for me, is what a nervous breakdown is.”
Exploring Addiction and Codependency
41:37 to 42:00
Learn about Andrew's exploration of addiction and his introduction to codependency.
Exploring Codependency and Recovery
42:00 to 44:15
Andrew discusses his journey through AA, codependency, and the steps to recovery.
“And, you know, the two basic typologies, which, you know, codependents vacillate between, and I did as well, were people pleaser and control freak, right?”
The Impact of Vipassana Meditation
44:15 to 46:18
Andrew shares his transformative experience with Vipassana meditation following his breakdown.
“There's a CODA meeting that's been going for years in Hampstead.”
Unexpected Reunion with Foster Family
46:18 to 49:15
Andrew recounts a profound moment of reconnecting with his foster family after meditation.
“I went to Damusaka Kari in Suffolk, literally two villages away from where I was fostered.”
Embracing Emotions Through Meditation
49:15 to 52:55
Andrew discusses how meditation helps him process emotions and fosters self-acceptance.
“And he went, this is the middle of nowhere.”
The Power of Voice and Listening
52:55 to 56:00
Andrew reflects on the importance of communication and softening his voice in leadership.
“You know, of course, the old formulation that I would have was, therefore, what is irritating me?”
Leadership and Communication
56:00 to 57:40
Exploring the effectiveness of softer communication styles in leadership.
Personal Evolution and Relationships
57:40 to 59:50
Discussing the impact of personal relationships and financial perceptions on happiness.
“I don't need to earn as much money as I used to.”
Fatherhood Reflections
59:50 to 1:01:50
Reflecting on fatherhood, including challenges and joys of parenting.
“You know, and so when, you know, puberty hits and she's like, I really don't want to play those games anymore.”
Defining Success and Living Authentically
1:01:50 to 1:04:50
Examining personal definitions of success and the importance of authentic living.
“And of course, because of, you know, when that happened, which was kind of pre my breakdown recovery, I got very resentful and very angry about that.”
Cultural Influences: Recommendations
1:04:50 to 1:09:20
Sharing impactful films, books, and music that shape personal perspectives.
“Yeah, that symbiotic curiosity is so interesting.”
The Joy of Music and Hobbies
1:09:20 to 1:10:04
Discussing the therapeutic nature of music and the importance of hobbies.
“And it's worth mentioning that you still play drums.”
Exploring Vulnerability and Masculinity
1:10:04 to 1:11:29
Andrew discusses the importance of vulnerable storytelling and gentle masculinity.
“want to perform I just like practicing you know it's that kind of hobby hobby it's a hobby yeah We love hobbies.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04Hello and welcome to The Slowdown. We talk a lot on this podcast about unlearning, unlearning hustle culture and inherited ideas of success. So who then should we learn from? Often those working behind the scenes, connecting the dots and facilitating the spaces have the most inspiring stories and not enough of the public recognition. My next guest, Andrew, is one of those people and when I first met him I just thought this conversation needs to be on the podcast. Andrew Missingham started as a drummer and record producer playing in top 40 UK singles serving as musical director on gold certified recordings and producing what is widely considered to be one of the finest South African jazz albums ever made.
0:52He then spent three years running music projects for the British Council across 43 countries in Africa, the Middle East and South Asia, and subsequently led the performing arts program at the Institute of Contemporary Arts in London. He spent decades working at the intersection of data, culture and human behavior with organizations like Nike, Google, Unilever, Patreon, Discord, the LA Philharmonic and the South Bank Centre. Inevitably, such pace takes its toll. Following a nervous collapse in 2020, he rebuilt his life and tries to honour his mantra, which he has tattooed on his left arm, live to listen, listen to learn, learn to share.
1:36Now working as an independent consultant and strategist, Andrew has practised Vipassana meditation for 1 ,300 consecutive days and counting and he plays the drums daily. We talk about gentle masculinity and what it looks like to be a man who leads by listening. And so I'm excited for you to dive into this conversation recorded here at Brazen Studios and sponsored by Greek swim and resort wear brand Keone with Andrew Missingham. Hi Andrew, welcome to The Slowdown. Thank you so much for being here.
2:11Andrew Missingham:It's lovely to be here, Tiana. Thank you for inviting me. We always start with some context. So could you start by sharing with me where you were raised and by whom? I think previously that might have sounded like an odd way to start an interview, but actually with you, those exact words, I think, make more sense than for others. The formulation is very careful and I think it's about right. So where I was raised, North London initially, I lived in my family of origin as a complete unit with two parents, battling parents, until my father left on my 10th birthday. They battled from my first memories.
3:02Andrew Missingham:And it was clearly, you know, a troubled, dysfunctional relationship between them. I then lived for a little bit, a couple of years, with my mother and my brothers and my sister in a place that, bless her heart, my mum was trying to hold her stuff together. And struggling because it's hard. It's hard at the best of times to bring up one kid with two engaged, loving parents, but four kids on your own in a situation like that, that must have been, I mean, to expect someone to prosper in those situations without damage, I think is unrealistic. my father shacked up with somebody at a squat or short life place in these communes as they were in the late 70s in west london and he ended up in suffolk in the countryside and we all went to see him and his new partner and i think this cup of tea is going to last slightly longer than that relationship did.
4:14Andrew Missingham:We went to see them one Christmas and he made us an offer and he said to all four of us, do we want to stay up there with him and his new partner? And my older brother said no, my younger brother said yes, my younger sister said yes, and I said yes. So my poor mother put four of us on a train to go away for Christmas and he got one back. And when that relationship broke down, my father gave me the option. He said, okay, I'm going back to Australia where he's from. You can do that. Or you can go back to live with your mother in London. And so those are my choices. What am I going to do? go to a place I'd never been before or go to a place that was hectic and I didn't want to be.
5:11Andrew Missingham:And at, what, 14, I chose neither. I saw those two paths in front of me and I thought maybe there's a third that I can invent or create. And so I put notices in the village hall notice board and the school notice board and asked friends if anyone would take in a lodger. And a dad of a kid at my school said, yes, they would. And the school heard about it and the local authority heard about it, of course. And so I ended up living with what became my foster family in a farm in Suffolk from when I was 14. to when I was 18. So questions who raised me and where. So I was raised by a family of origin.
5:59I was raised by my siblings as well.
6:03Andrew Missingham:I was raised by my foster parents. And I was raised by my foster siblings and my friends around me. It's worth saying that my conception that when faced with two alternate choices, I had the ability to create a third option became part of my narrative that I told myself, and it's not correct. It's not correct, Tiana, because actually the real story was two very kind people saw a kid who was facing a difficult situation and they opened their hearts and they opened their homes to accept that child into their already full household. and seeing the gift of that kindness and that openness I didn't see that at the time and I didn't see that for years that that's the main point of the story because I think we tend to what put on ourselves the idea that like we did that I did that I'm entrepreneurial I fix problems and I can solve things without actually giving credit where it's due to others.
7:23What was the specific thing that you felt you had to unlearn?
7:26Andrew Missingham:Yeah, I mean, I think I'm probably a very slow study because it took me the best part of 40 years to unlearn that erroneous lesson that I taught myself. There was something else I just remembered that was part of my narrative at the time, which I unlearned quicker. And that was this. at the time i saw the opportunity to stay at the same school because that was very important to me stay with the same circle of friends that was the continuity i was looking for as a gift my father had given me insofar as he had trusted me to then go and do this thing and i worked very hard at school from then um because i felt i needed to repay his trust um in me um in fact very many years later when i was a successful musician i met my father in the uk and he said to me you see if i hadn't have been the way i was i don't think you would have turned out as entrepreneurial um as you had.
8:32Andrew Missingham:I think that's wrong too. You know, I think the story was my father took care of himself and actually gave very scant regard to what was to happen to his kids. And so I think that, you know, one of the things I've had, I've learned myself was actually doing what my father did and putting myself at the centre of every story. That's, I guess, what I'm trying to say, much better worded. And how did drumming actually enter your life? And then skipping a couple of steps, how did drumming get you into music as a career? Yeah, okay. Well, it's interesting because there's a kind of interregnum there with acting and drama.
9:13Andrew Missingham:I never really wanted to be a drummer, I always wanted to be an actor. I think very often people who are uncomfortable in social situations seek to become performers because it's a very safe environment to be in you have a script you know uh you there are there are unwritten and sometimes written conventions between performers and audience you know that mean that it's a very very safe place to be the drumming was something different the drumming was to do with my physical restlessness when i was still with my father I used to make impromptu drum kits out of pots and pans and I even tried making a you know a bass pedal out of you know some cotton wool and you know some chopsticks and stuff like this and and he saw me doing that and he said okay um I'm gonna buy you one drum just one drum and if you play on it every single day between now and such and such a date we'll talk about buying you a drum kit and he did he bought me the worst drum kit I've ever seen in my life it was 25 pounds Argos it wasn't even Argos I mean if it was Argos it would have been great but this one had like someone to replace one of the drum heads with like kind of shoe leather and it was just bizarre and it was yellow sparkle and kind of and it was wonderful I absolutely loved it because the other thing is I loved Lego and actually drum kit is a drum kit it's like it's like Lego it's like Meccano you know I never had Meccano when I was a kid that was always a bit above us but Lego So, yeah, this idea of constructing it, reconfiguring it, pulling it apart, putting it back together.
10:50Andrew Missingham:So that, the constructing thing, plus the restlessness, that was what I used to do. My foster brother said to me years later, he said, I can't believe how frighteningly good you got so quickly. It was kind of like, you know, annoying. And I did because I just played and played every single day, you know, and it was just great. Now, as I say, alongside that was the theatre stuff. And so what I studied was performance arts, a very pioneering course at Middlesex Polytechnic it was then, in the beautiful surroundings of Trent Park at the end of the Piccadilly line. and if you've ever seen the Beatles film Help, the Richard Lester film, the second film, it's a great scene right at the beginning where John, Paul, George and Ringo, they all live in houses side by side on a very ordinary looking terrace in Liverpool and these two ladies are waving hello to them across the road and they're waving back to them as they all walk into their separate four houses and they walk through their front doors and then when Richard Lester cuts to the shot from the inside and it's one big room, they all live in the same house.
12:15Andrew Missingham:It's a great scene. And that was very much what the BA in performance arts at Middlesex Polytechnic was like. I entered through the drama door, but once I was in, I did set design and pit drumming and dance accompaniment and, you know, Doris Humphrey, you know, technique, dance and ballet and everything, all sorts of stuff. And that, that was foundational insofar as a whole load of different things that turned out in my kind of subsequent career for understanding that expression, creative expression, comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. and there are all sorts of different ways of being creative that don't necessarily have you know a creative you know in capital letters in front of them um and also lots of different ways of collaborating with different people who come from different disciplines the first steps i took when i well the first steps i took the second year was realizing i never wanted to be an actor um and this has happened a few times when firstly i realized i wasn't good enough and that happened eventually with with drumming i realized i wasn't good enough graduated and i joined a new band that a guy had formed his name's tony coleman and we both managed the band initially a band called is it and he that went on to run very successful um uh label hospital records and he had an act called london artist amazing stuff he's done ever since um but basically there were so many things that i ended up doing that i didn't know i was doing at the time you know so i was drumming and that very pragmatic me that i am was like okay we haven't got a manager you know there are things that need doing i didn't know i was managing the band in you know but him tony and me clearly were similarly when we spent a year trying to get signed to a record deal and nobody would sign us we said well we're going to have to create something ourselves so we very strategically actually you know chose a song a cover that people were after in the years of kind of rare groove and recorded it and created a whole marketing plan around it and actually in the studio tony said okay well we'll have to put you this it was like writing produced by you know andrew missingham and tony carman i mean why am i down as a producer he said that's what you were doing in the studio you were producing i was what you're producing the record with me oh is that is that what record production is oh okay and we got a five six week residency at this club in just outside athens in cliff father where the old airport used to be and basically when on the way there we picked up a copy of the face magazine which was i think maybe the 50th issue of it or something and it had like a dossier of everybody right who was in kind of club culture particularly in London at the time, what clubs they played in, what record shops they worked in, what pirate radio stations they played in, what fanzines they wrote for.
15:25Andrew Missingham:And we basically studied it like a Bible. It was like our internet. And actually, I've heard this from a few people. A lot of people use that issue, you know, that and the enterprise allowance scheme. The two things that I think were like real motors of Britain's creative industries, ironically. Out of that, we created this whole marketing plan. And then, you know, we ended up being Paul Oakenfalse first signing on his first label and, you know, all sorts of stuff. So this is something I've come to all the way through. The drumming was a kind of a vehicle I happened to be driving at the time, you know, but I didn't want to be a vehicle driver.
16:03Andrew Missingham:Do you know what I mean? And so the reason I stopped that when I say I wasn't good enough, I actually could see when I was an actor, that there were other people who were better at it than me who wanted to do that more that was their thing yes and i was like okay if i can't set myself up in competition with those people similarly when i was a drummer i i would i had you know did some really good things when i was playing sessions and stuff and i once i um and i was down for like the last four after the first album to become jamiroquai's drummer the guy who got the job derek stayed with him for years and years and I remember when he got it thinking he's a real drummer I mean he really really wants to do this thing more than anything you know and he's brilliant at it I mean the first track on that second album and I would say Emergency on Planet Earth just another story is basically his tune I listen to him and I listen to people like him and it's like being Salieri in Amadeus you know where he thinks that God's cursed him, right?
17:13Andrew Missingham:By having the ability, musical ability to recognise genius, but without genius, you know? And so that's why I parted company with that as a career. But I mean, you had some serious heights there, you know, being and leading the band as the drummer on the 1995 album, The Messengers by Burungwa. Yeah. The first Anglo-South African acid jazz group. I mean, you did so many insane things, But it also feels like almost in parallel, your interest in data and strategy is running. My boss at the British Council was a fabulous guy, is a fabulous guy called John Kiefer. And just like Tony said, you're doing record production there.
17:57Andrew Missingham:John said, you're very strategic, aren't you? And I said, what does that mean? And he went, well, you always think a kind of step ahead and you think of the consequences of where something's going to lead to. And you're always leading towards that kind of further thing. And I was like, oh, is that strategy then? Is it? I guess I am. Yeah. And in the business that I grew and sold back in 2023, B &A, I was very adamant early on that we only call our people problem solvers. Because it's like, if you're not solving a problem, what are you doing? Right. And so this idea, and for me, this was very much hardwired and weirdly linked to my codependency as well.
18:38Andrew Missingham:You know, this idea of I must solve problems. I must be useful. One of your clients says that you are the person who takes up mixed up Rubik's Cube of ideas and hands it back to you with six clear, vibrant sides. Is that a good way to think about data insights and strategy and what you kind of ended up doing in the 2000s? I don't know who said that, but it's good and it's nice. and the thing that I'd add that's I think really important that's been part of the journey is sometimes it's worth going maybe you don't want to solve a Rubik's Cube you know actually questioning the very basis for the brief right you were one stripe on the Rubik's Cube is enough you know or and so but I think that that ability to simplify the complex and to make it digestible and usable, you know, useful is what my journey has been.
19:35The, yeah, the,
19:41Andrew Missingham:the way that my mind works on this stuff, and I've always been good at this, ever since I was a little kid, is I am able to hold onto the anomalous and remember it. It's almost the opposite of what an LLM does. An LLM, if you give it a whole load of data, it will massage that into trends and the single data points that are anomalous, it will discard them as if they're unimportant. My brain, the way my brain works, I've found is it will hold onto the anomalous and it will pin it to a board in my brain for later, you know, for later use, for later. And sometimes things never, ever have a use, you know, but actually, well, that was weird.
20:33Andrew Missingham:What was that? I've never heard that before. Goes onto my mental pinboard. And then very often what will happen, and this happens in data and insights processes all the time, I go, hang on, I'll find something. This reminds me of this thing. oh that's what it was and then pulling those things together and pulling those threads together my definition of an insight is something that's not obvious before obvious after it's a head slap where you didn't see it before because you didn't see it before because the connection wasn't made but once the connection is made it's obvious it's obvious it's you know and and like when you learn a new word in you know any language you never heard it before but after you learned it you see it and hear it everywhere that must have been everywhere before me using it hasn't made it more so it's just that now I am aware of that thing you've been done so many different things and I feel like one example that brings together some of your work is your time at the ICA and and how we actually met, which was through Charlie Dark, and a club night series that you did around Blacktronica.
21:44And I thought you could tell me that story about how that came to be, because I think it kind of pulls together a lot of these threads, like your interest in music, British culture, your work with British institutions, like how did you end up working with the ICA, and then your support of your friends and the kind of very much like London cultural community.
22:04Andrew Missingham:you and he's a as you know an absolutely amazing man who creates movements cultural movements there are very few people who do that and i thought yeah that's really significant i don't i think it's bigger than a festival because the festival you do it a lot of work you know a couple of days and then it's here and gone right i thought steady drumbeat of a monthly club night particularly in the ICA I had a really simple job I gave myself at the ICA to reflect contemporary creative London as I saw it and my job there is director performing arts I was like okay then the program needs to be way more culturally diverse than it was at the time in terms of the program we were presenting and Black Tronico I saw is a really important part of that I was quite naive going in there thinking all I need to do is I need to get the right things in here which will attract the right audiences and then the right audience will see this as a home venue it's not as simple as that I once put on this uh Nigerian superstar called like Baja he's a saxophonist and I did his first ever gigs in the UK I've met him in Lagos when I was doing some work there and um I really like what he did and I was like okay he didn't tell me he'd never but Bisade told me he'd never performed in the UK before.
23:26Andrew Missingham:I was like, well, okay, well, let's put you on. At the... At the ICA. Institute of Contemporary Arts. Institute of Contemporary Arts, which is like, it's on the mall. It's on the street where the Queen lives, right? It's a Crown Estates property. It's like there's a juxtaposition there already, right? And I remember going to the marketing department and saying, okay, we're going to be having this guy in. he's um he's going to do three nights how do you think we should market him and the marketing development said i think we'll do a quarter page ad in time out i went it's not really going to do it and they went half page i went no no nobody's coming coming is going to be looking for an event with him in time out time out they're just not going to be looking there right so i called my uh an acquaintance a guy called jimmy akini and i said to him listen we um we're going to be doing like Baja, do you want to help market it and promote it yourself?
24:23Andrew Missingham:And you can even announce him on stage. And so he came in and he was like, he advised them on kind of what needed to go on the poster. And then he put the posters out in all the places where people would see them and, you know, hair shops and, you know, you know, all sorts of places. Right. And it was packed. Now, that wasn't the only thing I had to do. What I also had to do is I had to go to the bar and say, how much you charge for bottles of spirits and they say we don't sell them we sell singles or doubles i said yeah but we're going to have three nights where people are going to want to basically buy a bottle of spirits with four glasses you know an ice bucket and they're going to want to be serving the drinks themselves i said believe me do that and you know you'll have a really really great night right and so and similarly i had to go to the front of house and the front of house at the ica at the time was one of these kind of front of house is that you get in some institutions where they have an attitude which borders on, if it wasn't for so many people coming into this institution, this would be a really good institution.
25:23Andrew Missingham:If it wasn't for so many people bothering us, trying to buy tickets from us, we'd have a really good institution. What I'd prepared them with was, Nigerian names can be quite formulaic. And so there are some kind of set formulas that follow, shall they something? Are they something? And I was like, okay, right, Here are some common formulae, particularly Yoruba names, because it's such a diverse and enormous place in Nigeria. But in terms of like Baje was from Lagos, I knew the kind of crowd who'd be coming. And so I wrote a whole load of formulas down and I said, OK, put this next to your computer.
25:58Andrew Missingham:And when someone calls up for tickets, you don't need to get them spelled letter by letter. you can basically you know look through this and recognize and then say and repeat it back and then say ask them for the rest the kind of bit that's kind of personal to them family name and um you know because that saved them a lot of times not just say some time makes the people coming feel at home before they've got there you know it makes people feel this is a place that's going to be welcoming me that gets me so what i realized at the ica which is very important is it's not just the art that cuts through, it's the structures around the art that allow people to be involved or not be involved.
26:47Andrew Missingham:With the ICA, when I first went in, I thought that I had this sword right in my hand. Like, you know, when you knight someone, you know, the ICA, the Institute of Contemporary Arts, I dub the artist, I would tap people on the shoulder, in you come. And yeah, That's a political tool to wield, to say, OK, who do I believe represents contemporary art now? And therefore, you know, that political decision of who you open the door to, that's very much what I was trying to do. But that wasn't enough. The other side is they have to feel welcome. Completely. And understood in that space. Absolutely. Otherwise, it's a wasted endeavour.
27:29Andrew Missingham:Yes. They've come, they've felt awkward. Absolutely. And they won't come back and they'll tell other people that's not the venue for them, you know. And actually there's another part of it which I learned after working with a woman called Lorna Clark, who's now the network controller for music at the BBC. I worked with her when she was the head of BBC New Talent. I worked with her to create a thing that became the BBC Performing Arts Fund. and um the other role that the role that she had at the bbc for me as an external consultant that i realized that i was playing at the ica was she kept the nonsense away from me so i could do my job and at the ica that was my job very often for the artists all of that mechanism that frankly people don't need to see and it's not important and actually if they feel it too much it's startifying and it's you know distracting keeping that away so the artist can do their job that's the kind of thing that arts demonstrate the best the guests on this podcast are all building something on their own terms and our season five partner is doing exactly that hyone was co-founded by lydia vusvoni and emilia thorodoropoulou two women in their 30s both mothers both greek both deeply in love with their country and its craftsmanship.
28:54What they've built together in just a few years is extraordinary. A brand now recognized across Greece and internationally, loved by celebrities, featured in major press, and even worn on screen in a Yorgos Lanthimos film. And they say they continue this journey with the same enthusiasm with which they began. That's the thing about building something from genuine love rather than just ambition. the enthusiasm doesn't run dry when I look for partners for the slowdown these are the kinds of stories I want to be able to tell so I was overjoyed when they said they wanted to be partners for season five their support pays for this studio time and our amazing production and editing team and keeps this podcast going but there's also something in it for you Keone are offering a 20 discount for the slowdown listeners just use the code the slowdown one word at checkout on their website, kione.com, for 20 % off your first shop.
29:51I hope you check them out and support this female-founded brand the way that they are supporting this show. There are, I could speak for several hours about your career and all the things that you've done, and we could go into so many amazing anecdotes and stories, but I'm very conscious that this podcast is about slowing down and those pivotal moments and redefining ourselves. And so I know that in 2020, you had what you describe as a nervous collapse. And I'm curious to understand what the factors at play were that led to that, how you felt during that. Like, what was it like? How did you or your family or those close to you experience that?
30:33And what changes did that lead you to making?
30:35Andrew Missingham:I think I'm going to start with a way that I've thought of it in my head, and then I'll go back and explain it. Imagine in the story of three little pigs, there wasn't three little pigs, there was only one. And this little pig had in their environment not two big bad wolves, well, not one big bad wolf, but two.
31:08and eventually this little pig realised that what they had to do
31:15Andrew Missingham:was create a shelter for themselves and so they improvised the tools around them and created a little shelter out of straw and that kept them safe and eventually this little pig left that environment with the two big bad wolves and left with two things The first one was the hyper-vigilance and hyper-awareness for the sound of big bad wolves. Actually to a fault, this little pig heard big bad wolves everywhere, even when they weren't. And the other thing the little pig left with was a toolkit that was adept at making straw houses. but then of course the little pig found themselves in an environment where they had to make a stick house and the tools were then overused because they're made for straw houses not stick houses but they kept using them because they're the only tools they had whilst keeping hyper vigilant for the sound of big bad wolves and you know cover themselves with the kind of stick pile to kind of keep themselves hidden and you know doing all sorts of stuff and you know probably using some of these tools as weapons against other people and stuff.
32:32Andrew Missingham:And then eventually they found themselves in a scenario where they had to build a brick house. And now the tools were really knackered. You know, they were only for straw houses and they had to make a brick house. And so some were lost and some were faulty and some had teeth missing. And, you know, but they eventually built this brick house and it kind of stood up and it kind It looked like a house, you know, and it's so much so that there were other people in it, family and co-workers and friends who were attracted by this brick house. And then the brick house fell down around the little pig's ears because it wasn't actually very well made at all.
33:11And while all of the people kind of escaped from the rubble, little pig sat there in the rubble, coughing and spluttering and crying.
33:24Andrew Missingham:and said, I need new tools. I need new tools. That, for me, is what a nervous breakdown is. A nervous breakdown, for me, I can't speak for anyone else, was the moment where I realized the tools that got me through are not going to get me through any further. In fact, I have got to where I have got because I have used these tools for too long. Way beyond the circumstances where they were forged and needed. The use cases applicable. Yes, exactly. And so how that manifested itself is I kept finding myself irrespective of what I was trying in the same situations whereby, you know, relationships would break down um you know i was i was hard working to a fault and i was hard work to a fault um and so i don't know if you've ever known anyone who's approaching a nervous collapse or a nervous breakdown I wasn't a lot of fun to be around, to be with.
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34:50Andrew Missingham:I put hard pressure on other people unfairly.
35:01And, yeah, so the process from that moment of recovery,
35:09Andrew Missingham:as I say luckily I did realize that I would have to do things very differently the things that I did four main things that I you know that became my path to recovery which are now the bases of you know my life now well tell me about those yeah things okay well the first one was one that lasted a little bit of time um a couple of years when I've you know when I first broke down and um this was actually just something again to my condition problem view where i wanted to be useful um but i wanted to do something in a different realm so i volunteered at the local and i don't want to call it a soup kitchen because that's not the way it worked no it was like a restaurant the way that they did it in mussel hill and they still do it now it's run at the local Baptist church, Thursdays and Sundays, and people would come in and they had a sit-down three-course meal.
36:18Andrew Missingham:What I loved about it was these people had the right to complain. They had a right to say to me, can I have another cup of tea? This one's a bit cold. or can I have another sugar in it or um actually can I have this to go I'm in a bit of a hurry you know and so and I had to serve those people um and so and the other people I worked with were great who came from all sorts of different backgrounds kind of local people and the people that I met the guests there um were really interesting there are so many ways of being poor um in London you know there were people who are working who you know their their wages just run out before you know before they got paid again you know or there are people for you know mental illness or people from bereavement or you know just who needed a helping hand right um and so of course that made me feel very very lucky because at the time I was living in like you know this big kind of slightly ridiculous four-bedroom house um in Muzzle Hill with like Like, you know, a yoga studio at the back with a sauna and, you know, underfloor heating and surround sound and all these ridiculous things that, you know, I felt were part of my life and I needed at the time, but I didn't.
37:43Andrew Missingham:And so actually seeing people, frankly, in genuine hardship and seeing the fact that we're all the same, you know, we're all variations on a theme of, you know, different members of this migratory herd species. that was very helpful um so that was the first thing the second thing was therapy mainly based around um cbt but i said to my therapist erin i said to her the first time i met her i said erin i need to do this properly i've done therapy before
38:27Andrew Missingham:and how I normally do therapy goes like this my ego taps me on the shoulder and it says Andrew I'll do the therapy you sit at the back of the room keep your voice down I'll keep you nice and safe and you know my ego would say yeah because I know how to cry and I know how to look like I'm making progress, you know, and I know how to perform vulnerability, you know, but you keep yourself back there. It's fine. I'll get you through this. I said to her, if you suspect for a moment that that's what's happening, you need to stop it and call me out on it because this is my last chance to do this. I don't think I'll get another chance like it.
39:14it was the opportunity that was served by the fact that it was a breakdown you know the fact that
39:21Andrew Missingham:I got to that point where I knew I wouldn't be able to go on as I had before and so I had to take that opportunity so that was the second thing the therapy and the main thing that came out of the therapy was really really simple until that point I thought I was basically a bad person My family of origin, particularly my father, was very violent, just really horribly violent when I was a little kid. And, you know, he was my father. And, you know, with my parents, you know, I thought, well, if... It must be me. It must be me. It had to be me. It's obvious, right? You know, I had to be a bad person, you know?
40:03Andrew Missingham:And so that thought was underlying. I am basically a bad person, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to try and make out that I'm not a bad person while keeping that bad person safe and hidden inside me. And I'm going to, you know, pretend that I'm good. Right. But actually, I know the truth. I'm not good at all. I'm horrible. I'm the kind of kid who deserves to be belted with a buckle of the belt up and down the stairs multiple times. what I learned in therapy was that's garbage of course I'm not that at all you know I'm basically a good person I must be it makes sense because you know I I knew right from wrong you know therefore I knew what being a bad person was right um and actually you know when I was a kid I was just a kid you know no one at any age deserves you know abuse like that right It says more about him than it does about you, of course.
41:01Andrew Missingham:Of course. And, you know, and I wasn't that anymore. I wasn't in that dangerous situation anymore. I hadn't been for years. And, you know, like the little pig carrying around this. You were still reacting. Yeah, I was still reacting. In a way as if you are. Hyper vigilant listening out for these things, interpreting those threats in everything I saw, you know. And so the ability to 180 degrees turn around my essence of how I see myself was absolutely pivotal to my recovery. The third thing, I've alluded to it a couple of times, was seeing my condition as an addiction. I went to AA meetings at the beginning of my breakdown and I knew I wasn't an alcoholic I'd stopped drinking alcohol in 2021 ironically I believe that stopping drinking alcohol accelerated my path towards my nervous breakdown because I no longer had a filter I never had a mask to wear in situations where I felt threatened or you know situations it was socially awkward or whatever and so I would go along to these AA meetings and you know someone would say hi my name's John and I'm an alcoholic and they'd come to me and I'd say hi my name's Andrew and I don't really know what's wrong with me actually but I know that I've got behaviours that I'm compelled to that I cannot addictive tendencies things I cannot change about myself and so I got a sponsor like you do in the 12 step programme and he walked me through the first four steps of AA you know and he was like well you're not an alcoholic that's clear he says but have you ever thought of codependency and i said you hadn't heard of that no never heard of it never heard of it before and um you know i'd heard of it in kind of pop cultural senses but it was like never something i actually applied applied or actively looked at um and you know as you as you know a codependent is someone who believes that their own emotional needs can be met by satisfying or meeting the emotional needs of those people around them.
43:11Andrew Missingham:And, you know, the two basic typologies, which, you know, codependents vacillate between, and I did as well, were people pleaser and control freak, right? And so it's trying to control your environment. Which one did you sit in? It vacillated in it. I think I was as much both as the other. I know in my marriage, I was definitely both. More the people pleaser, you know, in my work environment, i was probably more the control freak but for my clients i'm probably more the people pleaser yeah right and so you know there's all of those um tendencies and then you know so i went you know the um urging of my aa sponsor he said well have a look at the website and i looked at it and i you know went through it and i've never got a higher mark in any test in my life you know i I was like, aced it.
44:04Andrew Missingham:I was so proud of myself. Like you're 100 % codependent. This is the barrel of broken biscuits that I live in, you know. And so I went to my first meetings in Hampstead. There's a CODA meeting that's been going for years in Hampstead. It's a very well-attended meeting and some wonderful people there that I've met have become friends. um but of course i went with a deep sense of shame you know and a deep sense of fear about the journey i would have to embark on to really explore that um and so i've walked all the 12 steps on that in fact this morning i had a meeting with one of my sponsees now i sponsor people and he's currently just making the transition from step four to step five and you know and i'm learning still every time i do that so much you know from from my sponsees and from my recovery friends and stuff.
45:01Andrew Missingham:So that was the next thing. And the last part was Vipassana meditation. I went on a Vipassana 10-day program three months after I'd had my breakdown. And I remember telling people about it. And beforehand, I was like, I'm going to do this Vipassana meditation. How did you find out about Vipassana? yeah it's interesting there was a guy and i'll name him as well don gazzara and he went on one and he was an evangelist for it right and he um and he even came in to my company bna and did workshops with people and what it was i wasn't ready for it at the time you know but once i had my nervous breakdown i was like you know my thinking was okay i'm only going to eat food from the buffet of life that i've never tried before because you know i've been eating the same things at this and it's not working for me it's not working for me it's now it's giving me out yeah yeah yeah i need new nutrition exactly i need new nutrition exactly i need to try some things that i've been avoiding before and so i was like okay i'm gonna call don and i'm gonna get him to tell me you know about what is this dipasana thing right and so he gave me the inside track even down to like look further forward into the future and work out the day they're opening applications and then apply on that day because they film so they're free yeah because they're Exactly.
46:22It's 10 days.
46:23Andrew Missingham:Yeah, it's 10 days. Where did you go? I went to Damusaka Kari in Suffolk, literally two villages away from where I was fostered. Wow. I know. A lot to think about. I know. And there's 10 days. I've got an incredible story at the end, right? And I do think it was a miracle, right? It was basically all the way through. I was like, I'm going to go and see my foster family at the end. I'm going to see, you know, them and say thank you to them. you know, for the gift that they give. And this is what you're thinking about during these 10 days of silence. Yeah, exactly. 10 days, you know, they take your mobile phone away, you know, you have this vow of silence at the end of, you know, day zero.
47:02Andrew Missingham:And, you know, you can't exercise, you can't look people in the eye, you can't write, you can't read. It's just you, the practice, and the thoughts in your head, you know? And I'm thinking, one of the thoughts is that I'm going to go and see Roger, I'm going to go and see my foster parents. And, um, by about day seven, I'm like, no, actually, I'm not going to go now. I'm going to wait. I'm not going to just show up. I'm going to actually go and I'll come back and I'll volunteer, you know, at Damasukhikari and I'll go and do it then. So when the silence lifts on day 10 and then it's day 11 where everybody leaves, I kind of did things like I found out what language people spoke in the dormitory, you know, I didn't know that the guy who was in the bunk above me was Turkish until he started talking.
47:54Andrew Missingham:And there was a lovely guy there who ran a chip shop in Staines. And weirdly, I saw him. He was at the last Vipassana retreat where I was volunteering in the kitchen in Belgium.
48:13Andrew Missingham:And he said, how are you getting back to London? And I said, well, I'm on the train. So he said, I'll give you a lift. I said, yeah, great. So we got in his car and he said, could you put the directions into Google Maps? And I put the directions in Google Maps. And, you know, the blue line told us which way to go. And the light blue line, the other side, said eight minutes faster. Now, I haven't had that on a Google Maps before where the alternative light blue line is saying that the alternative one, that it's not suggesting you go down, is faster. Normally it says X minutes slower or same ETA.
48:56Andrew Missingham:But I looked at it, didn't think anything of it. And I thought, well, even though that's faster, it's telling me to go on this route. I've just spent 10 days meditating. I'm in no rush. I'm in no rush. Exactly. I'm in no rush and I am accepting things as they are, not as I want them to be. So I said, let's just follow the blue line. so I said okay turn right so he turned right and off we went and I realized that it was going to take me in front of the door of my foster home the line that Google had told me to go on not the faster route it told me not to go on and so we're there in front of the farmhouse and I said to my co-meditator, you can drop me off here.
49:42Andrew Missingham:And he went, this is the middle of nowhere. I thought he wanted to go to the station. What if they weren't home? These are all risks you were willing to run. Absolutely, they were risks. And so I got out and I wheeled my bag up there. And there standing on the front door was my foster mum in her house coat, holding a cup of tea. And she said, Miso, they used to call me that because I had a foster brother with my same first name, he was Andrew. Andrew, yeah. You come back. I'm like, yeah. And I hadn't been there since one of my foster brothers, Paul, died early, young. I went to his funeral. But I'd never gone to say thank you properly.
50:32Andrew Missingham:But basically, you know, the universe was telling me that's something I needed to do there and then. and my foster father then had dementia and my foster mum said, well, you can say hello if you want, but I don't think you'll get much out of him. And I said hello to him and he said, it's so. In fact, he said, oh, it's mostly said in ages, you know. And we sat around this farm table, exactly the same table we used to sit around when I was a kid. And I went to the kitchen and I opened the fridge to get some milk for the cups of tea. So Annie said, I'll give you a lift to the station. And she went upstairs.
51:13Andrew Missingham:And while she was upstairs, my foster father went to the bathroom and he had an accident and messed himself. And he came out without his trousers on and his trousers were discarded in the bathroom, soiled. This is what dementia is. It's what it does. you know and and the woman who was there cleaning said he's messed himself again called up and she says oh let's get him in the shower so i basically helped him took his take his clothes off my foster dad and put him in the shower i wrapped his clothes in the cloth and i put them in the machine and i found some washing powder and my foster mom shouting you don't need to do anything like that miss so i said no no i think i do i need to do it's fine it's not a problem and it wasn't a problem at all um and then when we got to the station when she drove me there after she found some kind of clean pants to put him in and i said thank you annie that was you know and i want to say i love you very much i don't want to say thank you for the kindness that was nothing really um and so what i realized was i had to tell her i loved her and roger
52:34Andrew Missingham:my foster father i couldn't tell him i had to show him that's what i was that's what i had to do that's what you know and vipassana has been a part of my life ever since i have meditated i haven't done that you're supposed to do two hours a day that's pretty hardcore yeah and i do one hour every single day i sit and i just try to be with my feelings the feelings i have in my body because what's interesting is one of the things you get over i got over quite quickly it's not such thing as good meditation you know it is what it is right and the acceptance to go oh today i'm feeling distracted today i'm feeling there's all these kind of intrusive thoughts coming to my head or you know um and it's interesting because i believe that the practice of vipassana is very complementary to the practice of recovery from codependency because it's the there is no there are no bad emotions there are just emotions they arise and pass there are no kind of bad feelings and being able to observe them not be instantly reactive to them that was something that it really helped me with i used to be incredibly reactive yeah you know um on a hair trigger the whole time um it was the sound of the big bad wolves you know that i'm trying to guard myself against right tools in hand rubbish tools in hand um and you know that ability to feel what i'm feeling feeling feel it rise feel it path let it go give myself pause yeah that's that's been a real gift but also it feels like to be able to sit with yourself and not be like well you have to do something based on my emotions or i have to do something based on your emotions which is part of that codependency to actually be alone and to be like i'm feeling like this take ownership of that feeling i think that's exactly right this is what i mean what i said earlier about standing on your own two emotional feet right this thing of um this is not your job to fix actually it's not even my job to fix you know thinking of the word fix which because that implies brokenness and it implies it implies as i say there are desirable emotions to feel and some should be suppressed or It just is.
55:06Andrew Missingham:It just is. You know, today I'm feeling irritable. You know, of course, the old formulation that I would have was, therefore, what is irritating me? Yeah. Or who is irritating me? And I, you know. It's just a feeling. It's just a feeling. Like, let it go through you. Yeah. One of the prayers I say every morning is, you know, God grant me this day moments of joy, where any anger or fear that I hold or that rise within me, you let me feel, you let me explore, you let me be with and you let me release. So by your grace, I might live today free from aggression, hostility and harm. And that prayer is not just about how I show up for other people, it's about how I show up for myself.
55:54And with Vipassana, which is effectively like sitting in silence, how do you think about how you use your voice now in the moments of speaking because I think we spoke about this where you've like almost decided to have like a softer intonation around things and be like I can still be the loudest and clearest voice in the room but I don't have to
56:17Andrew Missingham:shout yeah and actually I learned that years ago partly when I did a thing called the claw leadership program i was in their inaugural year it's this it's like probably the foremost cultural leadership program in europe and we did all sorts of fantastic things on that course together and one of the things that we learned was that you know how to talk you know and even back then i learned that to speak quieter is much more can be much more effective than speaking loudly um on my arm I've got a tattoo it says live to listen listen to learn learn to share I had it I've had it for about 10 years I think I was drawn to have it on there because I'm rubbish or was rubbish at all of those things you know listening learning sharing in other words how to let go of ownership of something and allowing other people to make of it what they will or nothing of it actually if that's that's a choice too um that's really again where the vipassana has led me um and that goes for myself too i mean i left a job around christmas this year um and i'm not looking for another job now to do i'm looking to only work with people i love people i respect I'm looking to be gentle on myself too.
57:48Andrew Missingham:I don't need to earn as much money as I used to. Was the correlation between how much you were earning and how much that was giving you just not satisfying? You were like, I'm working so hard and I'm not actually, there's a point at which, as they say, like there is a curve where a certain amount, you need a certain amount of money to have a roof over your head, but then beyond which there is a sort of ceiling of like beyond that, It's just no money, no problems. The economic theory is called diminishing marginal utility. Yes, so easy to recall that. But anyway, for me, I think it was something else.
58:24Andrew Missingham:I think in my life partnership at the time, which lasted for 30 years, I think we were both restless.
58:39Andrew Missingham:and there was a combination between the two of us which meant that
58:48Andrew Missingham:what we had was never quite enough because actually it wasn't quite enough because it was the wrong things what we really needed was to not be with one another right that's what we needed. So you're filling that with material. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, maybe just a little bit more of, you know, just turning left a few more times on the aeroplane, you know, a bigger home, you know, this sort of thing. Or we can be further apart in the same house. Exactly, exactly, totally, exactly where we are, where, yeah, the two different parts of the same house are in different time zones um yeah did you have kids one one daughter yeah who's now 17 and a really fantastic young woman very intelligent um late diagnosed dyslexic she was diagnosed dyslexic in year 11 um it was too late to get the help that she needed to be able to get through her gcses and stuff but you know always been you know she has the most important 21st century intelligences that you need right you know she's ridiculously emotionally intelligent she's um funny and clever and you know and trying to get her through it's a totally different subject but the um very partial um processes that pass for education at the moment to equip her to be her full self that's the current challenge that's faced by me and her mum yeah and in being a father and kind of serving as that example again and all the ways that the parents in your life have affected you did that play on your mind a lot as absolutely it did yeah I mean I think that one of the reasons I left it so late to have um have a have a child at all you know I was in my mid-40s when my daughter was born was because I feared that I would become abusive like my dad I thought that he was abusive because he was a father right you know and um and of course when she was born that dissolved none of that happened you know she was absolutely and I used to love I used to love playing with my daughter when she was little you know I mean I still I love her company now she's fantastic you know um but but when she was a kid filling the gap of play that i didn't have in safety at the ages where i didn't have it particularly you know so making things with her you know playing hide and see was healing for you oh so healing it was wonderful more so so much so that when the inevitable thing happened of puberty and she really didn't think i was the funniest person around anymore you know when she was about eight she looked up to me and she said dad I hope I'm as funny as you when I'm at your age.
1:01:41Andrew Missingham:And I was like, oh, I've arrived. You know, and so when, you know, puberty hits and she's like, I really don't want to play those games anymore. I do want to, I was absolutely bereft. You know, I was like, I grieved that. And of course, because of, you know, when that happened, which was kind of pre my breakdown recovery, I got very resentful and very angry about that. You know, I didn't really know how to process those things at all. they just leaked out and spilled out you know they say kids reparent you like when you go through those experiences with them again you relive your own experience of when you were a child doing that and you kind of allow yourself to create new pathways yeah yeah i mean i definitely think that I definitely think that my daughter has been a major part of my growth my healing my you know my education um you know my self-actualization um and I I believe as long as you know we're both alive she will continue to be so you know um so yeah you describe yourself as having lived several lives often at the same time now trying just to live one which is i think what we're kind of getting to here this consolidation and this also separating the wheat from the chaff and really just having a consolidated simplified idea of enough um what is that one life that you'd like to live now and what is your current working definition of success?
1:03:22I think I'm really, really lucky now.
1:03:26Andrew Missingham:I have a wonderful partner who's interesting and interested and kind. And it's that I've always wanted to be in a partnership with someone else, you know? I lived the last year up to February on my own and that was great. that was really useful to do. It's the first time I'd ever done it in my life. And I have no problem with my own company, doing things on my own. I went to see the Bridget Riley again on the weekend on my own and had a fantastic day, you know. But I like to be in a partnership. So one of the answers to your question is success means successful partnership. A healthy, non-codependent.
1:04:13Andrew Missingham:A non-codependent, loving, kind, forgiving, spacious, generous partnership. Also, I believe that family is more a verb than a noun. So success means to me a successful family, a happy family, people around, whether they are kin or not, who nurture one another. I really try just to now live, I'll have an idea of where I want to go, you know, things I want to do, holidays I might want to go on and I will plan, but I'll try not to hold on to those too tightly. Similarly with now the transition to me working independently, I'm really trying and I think I'm doing okay at it, not putting pressure on myself to be quote unquote successful or to, you know, have certain contracts or whatever.
1:05:09Andrew Missingham:I'm just trying to have the conversations in the right way, exploring, you know, I went to a fantastic event last night where I met some really interesting people and, you know, just going, okay, what's the right confluence between, you know, my attitude, my skills, my experience and other people's projects where as well as me being helpful, that scenario that I'm putting is enriching to me and therefore enriching to other people. I'll contact. Yeah, that symbiotic curiosity is so interesting. I could ask you so many more questions. I mean, so many different roads we could go down and conversations we could have.
1:05:50But I just want to conclude with a question that I asked everybody, which is if I had to watch one film or read one book or go see a specific exhibition that would help me understand you better or even have one experience what would it be and why if you want to kind of close this
1:06:11Andrew Missingham:discussion that is literally the worst question you could have asked me because i've got so many millions of examples okay so i get top three okay top three right i i would watch um about a boy i love that man there was a moment where i was like he's a class act You know, and also you've got a very young Nicholas Holt in it as well, right? But yeah, Hugh Grant, fabulous. That, I think Nick Hornby does crap men really well. So what about that? The father-son relationship, the... The boy trying to find... When his mum tries to kill herself, he realises that once not enough, you need backup. And his journey to try and basically, frankly, manipulate himself to safety, that really resonated.
1:07:02Andrew Missingham:and that one and he's like kind of slightly quirky odd doesn't fit in at school not kind of getting through and also the other the empty person in it is the Hugh Grant character you know his dad wrote Santa Super Sleigh so that film that's one the other one I'm going to come right up to date and this is a book that I bought to prepare me for my second visit to the Bridget Riley and that's Bridget Riley's collected writings in a book called The Eyes Mind not that Mind's Eye but The Eyes mind. And she describes her influences, her processes, her evolution as a painter. She comments on other artists and other works.
1:07:44Andrew Missingham:And getting that perspective, frankly, helped me to get more out of the work that I looked at. She's very, very careful, very deliberate. She's still of life. She's like 94, amazing woman. And she steps through these pieces and steps through these choices and takes them one by one. So 60s opera, cut out colour because she didn't quite know what to do with it. And then when she felt that she'd got a system, she was like, okay, let's introduce colour and let's, you know, so that's the second one. Thank you for giving me He's very generous with you. And the third one, I've got to pick a piece of music, haven't I?
1:08:29You'll be judged heavily on the music you choose as a drummer and musician.
1:08:33Andrew Missingham:Yeah, okay. It's got to be niche. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's all niche. I was always about the small room in the club, never about the big, large one. Okay, I will probably pick Shakara by Felakuti, which has got Tony Allen on the drums, because that's how you play drums. You make the music sound better. You know, Tony Allen, rest his soul, was an absolute genius. Fella, of course, was a genius as well. You know, and the whole band were in their own right. But, yeah, you just want to have something as a soundtrack that makes you feel good. And that's what Afrobeat, as opposed to Afrobeats with an S, which I'm not as much into.
1:09:18But, yeah, so that's my piece of music. Thank you. And it's worth mentioning that you still play drums. Oh, yeah. And you still find the time to play drums.
1:09:27Andrew Missingham:Every day. Every day. Absolutely every day. And this is something I've only recently got back into. When I stopped playing drums, I had to get rid of all of my music equipment, everything, like an addict basically getting rid of their phone book, right? You know, I got rid of everything. Burnt it all. Yeah, yeah, totally. So when someone called me up and said, can you do such and such? I'd say, no. They go, why? You're not available. I go, no, I haven't got any equipment anymore. and it was like through the process of kind of leaving it alone and then re-emerging with a different relationship to music with it as not a vocation but an avocation right as an escape that I started playing again and I've got this like Fender Rhodes that I had commissioned and made which I play every day as well but the drums oh man it's great and I don't want to perform I just like practicing you know it's that kind of hobby hobby it's a hobby yeah We love hobbies.
1:10:14Well, thank you, Andrew, so much for being here and for talking to me. I really appreciate it.
1:10:21Andrew Missingham:Well, thank you very much for inviting me. It's made me really nervous to come. I don't really do social media, you know, and things that go out into the world like that. But no, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. And it's been really fun. Thank you, Tiana. I really like your podcast. It's great. Thank you. I think you have so much to say. And I think the mic has been given to too many, especially men who are delivering terrible messages to people. And actually people like you should be the people that we are listening to more. Vulnerable men who share their story, who share it with like a quiet, gentle confidence that show ways to lead with like gentle masculinity.
1:11:04Like this is what we should be listening to.
1:11:07Andrew Missingham:I know a lot of people, if that makes it to the podcast, what you just said, who would roll their eyes. That it's me that you're saying that about. Because 10 years ago. Because of the harm that I've done. The damage that I've done because of my rubbish tools. But thank you for saying it. Thank you for being here. Thank you for tuning in. This episode was hosted and created by me, Tiana Tambridge, produced by Lulu Goad, sound and video production, and recorded at Brazen Studios, cover art design by Natalia Ruhe. This season was sponsored by Keone. Please subscribe to The Slowdown to be notified of upcoming episodes, tell a friend, and please leave a review.
1:11:56It really does help a new podcast like this get out there in the world. and remember we're all heading to the same destination and there is no prize for getting there early so we might as well slow down
From the publisher
After being adopted, Andrew Missingham became a drummer and musical director on gold-certified UK records, then spent three years running British Council music programmes across 43 countries in Africa, the Middle East and South Asia, then lead arts programming at the ICA. He later moved into data and strategy, becoming a Chief Data & Insights Officer and AI adoption pioneer for clients including Nike, Google, Unilever, Discord and the Southbank Centre, and a serial entrepreneur who founded 8 businesses and built and exited a 30-person consultancy.
In 2020, the pace caught up with him. A nervous collapse forced Andrew to rebuild his life from the ground up, and 1,300 consecutive days of vipassana meditation later, he's become one of the most thoughtful voices on what it looks like for a man to lead by listening instead of force. Andrew now lives by a mantra tattooed on his arm: Live to Listen. Listen to Learn. Learn to Share.
Andrew is one of the most genuinely curious people I've met, and someone who has spent decades doing the connective, uncredited work of bringing people, culture and data together without ever chasing recognition for it.
In this episode we cover:
Choosing to be adopted
How drumming led to managing and producing
Blacktronica Club nights at the ICA and other memorable events
What is an ‘insight’?
His 2020 nervous collapse and what it forced him to rebuild
The 4 key steps of his recovery: his new tools
A 10-day Vipassana that led him back to his foster parents
What gentle masculinity looks like in practice, and leading by listening
His fears of being a good father & his relationship with his daughter
Mentions:
Emergency on Planet Earth by Jamiroquai (1993 album)
The Messengers (1995) by Barungwa
Blacktronika https://www.blacktronika.com/
The ICA (Institute of Contemporary Arts)
Dhamma Sukhakāri https://www.dhamma.org/en/schedules/schsukhakari
The Eye's Mind by Bridget RileyAbout a Boy (film)Shakara by Fela Kuti, ft. Tony Allen on drums
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmissingham/
This season of The Slow Down is sponsored by female-founded, greek swim and resortwear brand Kiohne. The Slow Down listeners can use code theslowdown for 20% off their first shop on kiohne.com Enter their world, explore their collection and buy beautiful pieces designed to be enjoyed while slowing down this summer.
