Adot Gak: On Race, Reinvention and When 'Booked and Busy' Leads to Burnout

0:04Adot Gak:Hello and welcome to The Slowdown. Often when we see a celebrity on the red carpet, we see their accolades, their profile and their outward success. But rarely do we see what it took to get there or how they really feel about that world. My next guest had the most extraordinary story of how she arrived at the red carpets and magazine covers and a deeply refreshing perspective on the world of celebrity itself. Adot Gak was born in Sudan and moved to Egypt with her family at the age of four. When she was just nine years old, a violent attack by Egyptian police on a group of Sudanese refugees in a Cairo park tragically killed her older sister, who was just 13 at the time, and changed her family's life forever.

0:51Adot Gak:Shortly after, at the age of 10, Adot relocated to Iowa with her mother, where she grew up as the child of immigrants. She was later scouted in a shopping mall, moved to New York, and has since become one of the world's leading models. A dot has walked for Chris Owens, Vettemans and Richard Quinn, fronted campaigns for Skims and Alexander Wang and appeared on magazine covers around the world, from Marie Claire and Elle to Harper's Bazaar and Le Officiel. She's also a writer and former contributing editor of The Standard. In this episode, we talk about the modeling industry's relationship with race, how humor can be armor, the reality behind being booked and busy, and what she wants to do next.

1:37Adot Gak:Recorded at Brazen Studios and sponsored by Greek swim and resort wear brand Keone, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Adot Gak. Hello Adot, welcome to The Slowdown. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. In order to understand your story a bit better, I'd love to start with some context. So I would love to know where you were raised, by whom, and what your earliest idea of success looked like. So I was born in Sudan. I was raised in Cairo, Egypt, and Iowa. I would say I didn't really have a lot of people that were successful for me to look up to. so for me it was like watching movies and I'm like oh I just want to be a star that's it that was like my way of becoming successful just be a star what kind of movies were you watching um so well when I was in Cairo I was watching a lot of Egyptian movies of course so then when I moved to America I mean you start off with Disney and I was like oh my god I can I want to do what Miley Cyrus is doing you know I wanted to be Hannah Montana and I used to wear blonde wigs I was so I'm delusion I'm a delusional queen so um but you know I wasn't gifted with a voice so when it comes to singing I'm not really the greatest.

3:04Adot Gak:How long did you live in Egypt? We I lived there about six years um we moved to Iowa when I was 10 years old so Egypt wasn't supposed to be like a home for me. It was supposed to be a place where we went for refuge because, you know, war in Sudan until the States was war. But then when we got there, actually it would have been better to just stay in Sudan because of the racism and the abuse that we endured in Cairo. So like, so the next thing we were like, okay, well, we can't go back to Sudan. what else then we got accepted to go to america and when your mother saw like iowa was she like great or did she think the midwest no you know what it's so you know in arabic iowa means yes so when they were speaking to her because it's like they were you know speaking english and reading speaking english at them so they're like okay chicago new york iowa she's like iowa yeah so yeah that's how she's like new york she thought it was a yes to new york so she was just like yeah yes sounds perfect and when we got i remember like our first day there we looked outside and it was like oh my god it's so white and we're like oh my god we'll never have to buy salt or sugar there's so much sugar and salt out there and then my cousin went outside for a smoke and he came back and he was just shaking and we're like what happened he's like it's actually not salt or sugar it's called snow and it's freezing oh no that was your first experience that was in chicago yeah well shocked myself i started crying i was like i want to go back i want to go back oh i want to go back to cairo i can't do this and my mom was like well you can't really go back and we also have another flight and i'm like where are we going it's like i don't know we'll figure out when we get there and then the first two months because it gets so dark so early because we came in February and in Iowa that is like freezing cold but yeah that was like my early memories of you know coming to America then after a while I'm lonely this is not that bad what were the people like your first experiences of the people in Iowa well I mean I didn't feel like I didn't belong even though I'm like you know um black and I quite tend to forget that when I was in Iowa because no one brought it up so I didn't know so when I went to New York and they're like yeah you know when you're looking for black models and I'm like yeah great great great and then that's you I'm like oh yes yes yes yes yes yeah okay they're looking for me yeah thank you for a reminder and I go home and she's like my mom was like you're quite an odd child you don't think I was like I don't really like when I look at myself I'm like yeah I see me but I don't like look into the color of my skin as much as other people would that makes sense it does make sense and you mentioned that your mom was she a single mom she was a single mom so about when we went to actually my mom left my father and decided that she deserved better and she wanted to start a new life so she took my sister and I and went to Cairo so she always told me like listen you always have to choose yourself because men are selfish so it's always about you also when you were 10 years old in cairo there was an attack on the refugee camp and how did some of these events shape who you are now so your mother deciding to leave your partner losing a sibling like these things that you think have shaped key parts of who you are i would say the incident that happened um that day have changed my life um made me more um grateful but also um more aware of how evil people can be because my sister was murdered that was murdered that night so um to have a grown adult smash a child's head until she's dead like that's shows you something about what yeah like not everyone is nice not everyone is there for good with good intentions again that's why i got into writing it's one of those things like i always tell people it's like i don't want to be a victim to my circumstances, regardless of, you know, what happens.

7:46Yeah, life happens. But I don't want to be like those people that have done those things to me, if that makes sense. And I try my best to be like the kindest person that I can be. Because I mean, it's easier to be better, of course. Also, it's like after a month, everyone goes on, you know, partying, having weddings, having baby shower. And you're the your family you know a person that you've known all your life and now you have to live without those people but just I mean we live in a world where everything is just so quick

8:21Adot Gak:I like the description once that if grief was like a ball yeah the size of the grief doesn't change but the container your experience gets bigger yeah so the grief is still there and it's still the same size but there's so much else that is filling your life as well right does that feel like a good analogy yeah it is it is um i mean how i always tell people when like a person loses a person for the first time they're like you know because i know you how many people you've lost in your life like how do you deal with it i'm like it doesn't get any easier but you learn to live with it. Does that make sense?

8:59And my thing is always like, yeah, my sister's not here. And I'm sure if she was here, she would have been the biggest star. She was everything that I wanted to be. You know, she was fun. She was funny. She was free, you know, and she doesn't have that opportunity to do that and be here. So I feel like, listen, every day it's like, okay, you know, know you wake up and there's days where you're not feeling it but I'm like well you're alive you're healthy you have your two legs you you you're still functioning you know life is not that

9:33Adot Gak:bad yeah together sounds like you feel a sense of I should do it yeah exactly yeah I'm living for two people and when you were 21 you were scouted in a mall in Iowa yeah no so I was scouted twice I was scouted when I was 14 and then when I was 19. But I didn't call the lady back until I was 20. And so did that original Iowa agency help you get the New York agency or did you just go to New York on your own and try and get an agency? So they were trying to send me to like a few agencies in New York. I was like, I'm not sure about these agencies. And then I signed with one of them and I came to New York with that lady.

10:16Um, but the rates didn't make sense. Um, I had to pay and I was like, well, if agency is making you pay to begin with, that's not a good agency. And I think like as models, sometimes you're so hungry and you're so driven that you don't care what you have to do as long as you are a signed model. Um, but yeah, I just had to learn it the hard way. And when I did actually find my agent, I was like, okay, great. This is, this could be something. and yeah start shooting but then they didn't tell me that editorials don't pay you know everyone is like oh you're on a cover you're on this i didn't get paid maybe 150 and when the taxes come around it's really nothing you're not getting anything you know also shows yeah i think people don't know

11:03Adot Gak:that uh as like a new face doing shows especially for the new designers there's basically no money and you could be doing three shows a day, running around the city, doing all of the castings and there's kind of like no money to speak of. You know how many castings I did my first season? Probably 54 castings. And then it's like on top of that, you have to be responsible for your commute. No one's paying you for that. Also, you have to be responsible for your food if you get a chance to eat anything. Um, and yeah, but those things are not taught to us until you are in the game, you know, and especially if you don't have a family that support your dreams or don't have that income to just give you money, then you, you have to have a part-time job.

11:58Adot Gak:Did you have a part-time job? I did. I worked at a restaurant. I worked at Lexington Brass. Hi, Brian. Um, and it was incredible because my manager was the kindest man ever. and understood it was like every time when I had a casting it was if I had a shoot he'd be like okay I'll find somebody to cover your shift it's fine you got it also they say there's really two types people people who've worked in hospitality yeah and people who haven't yeah because it teaches you how to oh yeah understand people and people in difficult circumstances but that's the thing like when I go to restaurant it's like sometimes people are like oh you know this is not the right food that you order but I'm just like you know what it's not the end of the world now I understand that I'm paying for it and I understand I'm paying for service but sometimes I don't even know if that server had a death in their family or is going through a breakup or if their parents are ill or if their child's you know and their brain is just not working or they're not here um mentally they're here physically but they're just not just thinking about other things you know so I'm not gonna give you hell for it it's fine it's all right because I'm like I was a host and I had emergency and I still have to work and I'm trying to be the best employee but deep down I'm like crying you go to the bathroom for like five minutes you cry out and come back and it's like okay cool you just have to work and at what point did you transition into modeling being your full income passage like what point were you like I think I've made it or I feel like so I figured it out so that was with my second agency Penny shout out to you um was um the owner of the agency and I remember she was like you know what this is going to be great we're so excited for you we have a vision for you um and she's like and I was like oh you know but I still have to work no it's just like no no no no it's fashion week I don't want you to stress she sent me a thousand dollar to make sure that I had things I can eat I can um have Ubers if I need it some train money and I'm like the fact that she trusted me that much she gave me that much because usually when you ask for money to agencies it's like pocket money and it's literally and you pay it back yeah It was like 85.

14:28And 85 is like doing fashion week is nothing. So I was like, oh my God, she really believed in me. So I would say 2019 was like the year where I was like, okay, cool. It's money coming in. I mean, moving to New York and not having a place to stay and finding a friend after a casting was great. and then like us living in like this tiny room and sharing a bed to actually having money where I'm like, I can have my own flat. But I was still also worried. I'm just like, okay, but how long is this going to go for? You know, I wasn't sure. I'm like, okay, this is every day. I'm like, okay. And it's like when I have like two or three days off of work, I'm like, oh my God, am I going to be broke again?

15:09I mean, when I started making money, it got to a place where now it's like I can comfortably take care of my family.

15:17Adot Gak:and that was an important thing for you to do because I always took care of my mom so even when I was like well I always have always been the breadwinner so um finally being able to because I had to basically I couldn't really provide for a year or two um properly you know it's like okay if I have let's say 100 and she needs 50 and I'll give her that 50 and I have to make sure that I could survive with that 50 that I have left, you know. So to be able to, if the car break down or if we have, if there's an emergency, I could just send her money without thinking about it. But that got to a place where I felt like I had to work myself to the bone, you know.

15:59Like every day I'm like, okay, you have this and you have that and you have this. And I'm not saying no to anything. I'm talking about from campaigns to lookbooks to e-coms.

16:09Adot Gak:I would say my burnout was actually doing COVID. Went to Iowa, supposed to be there for a week or two. Ended up being there for three months. So I was like, okay, it was great because, you know, it's like I moved my mom into her dream home and we was there. She was like bonding. And that was like the first time like I actually got to know my mother as a person compared to as a mother, if that makes sense. Yeah, as an adult. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It was like, I'm like, she's just a girl. You know, she's just a girl trying to figure out. And so after three months in Iowa, I flew back to New York and that was it.

16:47It was like the busiest time of my career.

16:51Adot Gak:During COVID. During COVID. Because so what we were doing was like every day you get my nose. I was having nosebleed all the time because you're getting tested every day on set. yeah and this is before they figured out that you don't have to go all the way yeah um so i was working every day i would say from um end of june to

17:212022 it's just hell wow yeah and then i realized i was like oh my god all i do is work i don't really have a life. I'm exhausted. I started literally having these nights where I would wake up just like freaking out, thinking of call time. I was like, oh my God, I need to be up. It's 5am. I need to be up, but I didn't need to be up. I had a day off that day. I was like, okay, this needs to stop. This is bad. This is horrible. So I started saying no a little bit. I'm like, okay, cool. You take a break. I remember when was my first vacation? It was probably like 2022 like proper vacation and that was like a week with my girlfriend we went to Jamaica and I was

18:03Adot Gak:like wow this is amazing this is possible yeah I was like this is amazing but you know what before that trip they're like you have an option you're holding you're holding and usually I used to just like wait you know and I was like you know what I can't wait around all my life just for a job and I would say my friend Monica have changed my perspective on that because she's like listen And if they confirm, amazing, I'll fly back. But she's like, I'm having a time in my life. I'm traveling. And I used to be like, wow, you're going to St. Paul. This is amazing. And she's like, yeah, you know, and if there's a job, I'll come back.

18:38And I was like, this is incredible. Because all these years I've just been waiting around for options and for your own hold.

18:49Adot Gak:That was kind of always my issue with modeling. is like you spend a lot of time waiting to be chosen. It's not a very proactive two-way street. You know, there's not more that you can do. It's not, even with acting, you can kind of learn how to be a better actor. You can take dance classes. You can do all of these things. With modeling, there's not really like much you can do. So you're sort of just waiting for these arbiters of power to decide whether or not they think that you have the look this particular season. And it's quite hard to do that. And that waiting game of not being able to travel is also so real because I think people see models as having these amazing lives.

19:28Adot Gak:And then actually you are like you cannot plan anything. Yeah. Everything is I'm coming, but I might not be able to come. Yeah. The whole time. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, like, I've missed a lot of important things in my family's lives because I was waiting on an option. and again when people look at our lives like you travel so much I'm like traveling for modeling is really not traveling you go from the from the airport to the hotel and then if they don't want to pay for you to sleep tonight it's a red eye and I used to do a lot of red eye um to um LA I remember one of the first big trips that I did yeah for a magazine yeah again also probably not paid very much was to the Maldives yeah I was so excited I was like oh my god I get to go to the Maldives the best thing ever and I was I spent more time flying there and back than I did actually there I was there for less than 24 hours yeah and I was so upset when I had to leave I was like you're joking yeah but you also feel like you have no ability to say yes hey I'd love to stay yeah could I stay another day yeah and it's like now older yeah with kind of more experience I feel I'm like, I would ask.

20:44Adot Gak:I'd be like, hey, I'll put myself up for another night. Can I stay? Back to scarcity mindset. You didn't want to be, yeah. You know, you don't want to be that diva. And you know, in the industry, they're quite harsh with that. They're like, oh, she was difficult. She was difficult. I've been thinking lately about the things I want to hold on to and the things I want to let go of. Fast fashion is one of the things I've let go of. Not perfectly, not all at once, but very deliberately. which is part of why Keone resonated with me so much. As a swim and resort wear brand their whole ethos is about creating a timeless contemporary wardrobe.

21:22Adot Gak:Not trend driven, not seasonal and not for the sake of it. Pieces that are lightweight, soft and comfortable, made to last, designed to travel with you through the years and not just for one summer. I'm actually wearing one of their swimsuits right now and I can attest to the quality. Their swimwear is also built for slow mornings by the sea for reading a book and eating a fig for that particular freedom of a holiday when time just opens up and really good breaks can fill up your cup and sustain you long after the summer is over and Keone is built to last and I want you to experience it too which is why there is a very special discount code exclusively for you just put the slowdown one word in your checkout for 20 % off your first order at kione.com.

22:09Adot Gak:Enter their world, explore their collection, buy beautiful pieces designed to be enjoyed while slowing down this summer and for many summers to come. So how do you find the balance now? Like now that you have more years of experience under your belt and you are aware of the fact that you can say, no, I'm taking a week break, regardless of what comes in i think i'm at a place in my life where it's all about listening to my nerve system instead of everyone else because as in modeling you just think everything is about urgency you know it's like oh we need can you take some videos we need to send it to the um to the client right now and you think that you need to just basically do it now it's like no i'll get to it when i get to it.

23:01And then it's like your agent is calling. It's like, okay, can we... They also want to do FaceTime. Can you do a FaceTime? It's like, I am in the bathroom. Can they wait a little bit? So I'm at a point where I feel like also pivoting from modeling to now writing and all that stuff. It was like a way of gaining my power back. Because for a very long time I've struggled because I'm quite girly. Well, extremely girly. You know how industry is about girly girls. You need to be cool. You need to be cunty. You need to be mysterious. And I didn't have that. So it's like, you know, the shape head was supposed to give me that masculine edge, which I'm like, I still want, I like my princess dresses and I love my heels, you know?

23:53So I'm just like, you know what? at this, I'm too old to be playing this game, you know? And also I'm like, I just want to be able to look back into my life and be like, oh my God, I live my life the way I want it to. And not because of how my team wanted me to live, you know? So it's like, now it's like, if I think that I need a break, I'll take a break. And if they don't want to hire me, that's fine. It's not the end of the world I'm not gonna die because of all those options I had in my career I'm still alive so yeah I just you know this is this is my time it's all about me and taking care of me so

24:39Adot Gak:and with regards to what you're saying there about wanting to look back and say I was myself yeah you know yeah um you have over 600 ,000 followers across Instagram and TikTok and I saw a TikTok of you that has over 8 million views where you're wearing a white but very low-cut House of CB dress at Wimbledon. It's a stunning look with a white scarf and white sunglasses. But it seemed to like ruffle feathers on the internet. And so I'm wondering, you know, what was it about seeing you dress like that at Wimbledon that was ruffling feathers? And what about that still feels like you claiming yourself?

25:18I would say me being in my feminine energy and just being a girly girl, I think that society have their own version of what a woman should look like and what they should dress like. And even though that was a cute little dress, they're like, oh, my God, why is she wearing that? I'm like, it's a dress. Oh, but your boobs. I'm like, where am I supposed to put them? Put them on my head. But you know what? It's funny. I never really, like, read my comments. good for you i i don't it's one of those things i'm just like i'm because i'm not gonna go back and forth with you on something that i like if i like it i'm gonna wear it funnily enough there

25:59Adot Gak:was a lot of comments asking on your tech talks if you are ai yeah and i'm wondering how that makes you feel and what you think about ai what will it will do to the industry because we talked about e-commerce i used to do a lot of e-commerce too yeah and i feel like now ai is taking that And that was like your bread and butter. Yeah. The model, you know? Even though we hated it. Yeah. We loved to hate it. I mean, of course, it was not, I hate it. It's not ethical. But when it came to it, it paid the bills. You always have some money in your account. And AI couldn't be a great tool for a lot of things.

26:35But I feel like it gets to a point because this, I feel like now we're not using our brain as much. We're relying on AI. You know, no one is thinking clearly. It's like every time we're having a discussion or a debate, somebody will, well, I'm not sure, but let me check on what does ChatGBT tell me?

26:54Adot Gak:Are we right? It's like, again. Why do we need to check ourselves all the time? Exactly. Everyone is using it 24-7. You just cannot have a conversation with a person without asking ChatGBT about the discussion. and now also people are using chat gpt as their therapist instead of having a therapist so it's it's gonna take a lot of jobs i am actually against ai and i'm against the whole thing this is too much and the modeling industry obviously it made a lot of noise for a period of time about diversity yeah from where you're standing which is very much inside of it yeah Do you feel that there was real progress made?

27:38Adot Gak:And have we gone backwards? Where are we at? Or was it always kind of a performance? It's always a performance. So what's happening right now is, you know, going back to what you say earlier, that when you're a new face, you're cheaper. So designers are willing to use you and abuse you and do whatever, you know, they want because you're not there yet to get up your rates. So what's happening with black models is like they go to these camps and recruit these models and tell them that, OK, when you go to Europe or you go to America, you are going to make you're going to be the next, you know, an okay, you know, and you can take your family out of this refugee camp and you can actually have a great life.

28:23and then it's like they come here for one season and it's not you know pg doesn't like them dm casting is not there for them so therefore they're like okay well it's not working out because if pg doesn't like you it's really not that much we can do for you so now you have to go back to refugee camp and it's like no because i was minding my business in a refugee camp i didn't think anything else that was possible for me and now you gave me a piece of this possibility and now you took it away you know and it's like a lot of people struggle with mental health afterwards because that's a lot and now it's like okay you're sent back but also you are in debt that in the past it's like you have a model or quote-unquote supermodel for a decade at least you know those are the girls that are doing everything those are the ones that are pay those the one that are making money you know but now it's like they're not built we're not making supermodels anymore we're just having girls for season until they start to ask for rates did money now it's like okay next we're gonna go get somebody that looks just like you have the same body type um but she's gonna be for free and then next one and then next one so now it's like fast fashion you know you're using black models but you know everyone is like oh my god you You know, dark skin models are just taking over the industry.

29:47It's like, no, not getting paid for it.

29:50Adot Gak:For a long time with Russian models. You know, they'd be like the Russian supermodel and then they would fly in. You know, very young girls from Russia, Ukraine, etc. Who would come for a season. And if they were liked, great. They would be the cheapest ones you could get. And if they weren't, they'd be sent back. And it's terrible. Well, also that happened with Asian models. That also happened with Brazilian models. The last two seasons, the runway is looking a little pale again. Skinny. Very skinny. Getting pale. Skinny and pale. It's like as in like color-wise and also as in body-wise. Before it's like, okay, you saw a lot of black models in shows.

30:34But now it's like, okay, you see a handful. And majority of these models actually know them. So it's like, okay, what's happening here? I was like, well, they didn't call me back for a casting this season. I was like, you did two seasons with them. You don't really need that much casting. They know you, you know, or you did campaigns, but now they're not asking for you to come back. And now they have someone else that looks like you for free, basically.

31:01Adot Gak:It's so true what you said about we used to have supermodels like per decade. And now it's like every, it used to be kind of two, three years, and it was like every year and now it's just like so fast. I think obviously the pace of social media is also probably contributing to that. Yeah. But also I feel like, you know, we had the plus size model for a couple of years and they, I mean, that was great to represent every woman in every body shape and size. And now it was in big bodies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone is skinny and it's like the skinnier the better. You mentioned there that you are friends with some of the other models.

31:46Adot Gak:I was wondering who your closest friends are because I struggled to make friends for a long time in the sense that I was an immigrant whose family had moved to this country. I was working in a transient and transactional industry traveling the world. And so I kind of had friends everywhere. Yeah. and I had met people on jobs and things and you would sort of see them around maybe see them at the club or something but not really and so I was just wondering how you choose your circle and how you keep them close so for me it's like I had to learn the last I'll say like three years of actually like what it means to have a good good group of friends um because in the past and I feel like also like losing my sister I just wanted to fill that hole so I looked at every friend that I had as a sister and compared to just a friend and then realizing later on it's like we're not in the same um page so that was my thing and I feel like I've got hurt a lot in the past because again um I look at these people it's like oh my sisters but then it's like things happen and I'm like okay well, you weren't even like a friend to me, you know.