Next-gen gems: David Yurman’s Carolyn Dawkins is capturing luxury shoppers on TikTok

0:01The other piece that's magic about the brand is that it is deeply entwined in how Americans experience luxury. This relaxed American luxury is so true to how Americans want to experience luxury, have it really kind of connecting with their lifestyle, their life. It's something that is kind of meant for the everyday. That is what has personified the brand in its 50-year heritage. To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever-increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up.

0:42Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

0:48Up today on the Speed of Culture podcast, we are thrilled to welcome Carolyn Dawkins, the Chief Marketing Officer of David Yerman. Carolyn leads marketing from the world's most prestigious luxury jewelry brands, balancing heritage with innovation to capture modern consumers. Caroline, so great to see you. Thank you so much, Matt. Thrilled to be here with you today. Absolutely. So for those that are listening that aren't familiar with David Yerman, why don't you tell us a little bit about the brand? Sure. Listen, this is one of the most exciting brands that I've had the opportunity to work on. It was a brand that was founded through the deep passion of two acclaimed artists, David and Sybil Yerman, both artists in their own rights, really came together.

1:25And what they say is it was the accidental forming of a jewelry brand. And this accidental forming has propelled this brand to be one of the preeminent luxury jewelry houses, both in the United States, but across most markets. What's beautiful about this brand is that you can see it in every product design that comes through the house, is that it is deeply influenced by David's sculptural touch. And Sybil, the way she looks at light, the way she looks at color, it really comes through. It creates this very different sense of product. I think the other piece that's magic about the brand is that it is deeply entwined in how Americans experience luxury.

2:07This idea of this relaxed American luxury is so true to how Americans want to experience luxury, have it really kind of connecting with their lifestyle, their life. It's something that is kind of meant for the everyday. That is what has personified the brand in its 50-year heritage. And more recently, when you look at trends in the luxury space, what are some of the trends in terms of new interests and preferences that consumers have when it relates to the luxury market overall? I think one of the trends that we're seeing is that consumers are coming into luxury jewelry earlier than we've seen in the past.

2:43We're seeing collectors starting their collections early. I think the rise of TikTok, we see that younger generation have such a desire for luxury items, and we see them coming into the brand. It's wild, the volume of younger consumers who are interested in the brand, inspired by the brand, and then come in and start their collections. And then obviously we move them through the business. I think the second thing is that gold just continued to grow. I think we've got this powerhouse silver business, but we also have this powerhouse gold business and they both continue to move together. So this idea of metal, mixing metals and kind of metal focus, I think continues to thrive.

3:22I think the third piece is men wearing jewelry has just become such a norm and the growth that we're seeing there. I had to get my game on. I don't really have any jewelry. I know, but I think men find it so much more. There's not a lot of opportunities apart from certain category watches where men can express their creativity. They can express their uniqueness. They can express their style. And we have a business that is truly uniquely designed for men, which makes us very, very different to our competitive set. So as consumers are starting down this luxury journey with jewelry earlier, what does that mean for the brand in terms of obviously having that fine balance between the rich heritage of David Yerman and also making it accessible and more contemporary for the younger consumer?

4:09You know what's fascinating? We just went through some research and I think we always think that these heritage stories are made for older consumers. these heritage stories resonate just as powerfully with consumers of all ages and of all genders. It's wild. We've got an amazing campaign out there right now where we're telling the heritage story of a few of our really key collections. So one of them being Sculpto Cable, one of them being Madison, one of them being Chevron for men. And we take the consumer all the way back to the inception where David and Sybil came up with the idea or Evan influenced the idea.

4:44And then it takes it through to current day. And this campaign just performs so well. Consumers watch it from end to end. They understand the key takeaways. They're highly engaged. The metrics that we've seen, I've never seen metrics jump this significantly, nor has our research partner. And it is literally across every different age cut. So I think we forget sometimes that the consumer that's coming into this category, they want the depth of story. They want the depth of heritage just as much. And And I think, listen, compelling, entertaining content is compelling, entertaining content for all we do.

5:19And I think when you get it right, all of our audiences respond. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier, like with a younger consumer, obviously they're learning about, and it's really sounds like driving a category on places like TikTok. So what does that mean for you as a marketer in terms of maybe new muscles you need to develop, new areas you need to lean into a little bit more to make sure that you are in that TikTok and Instagram feed. So ultimately you're in a consideration set. We all know, right, these two platforms don't operate the same as much as we all wish they did from a content-led perspective, but they are different.

5:51And I think we are getting better at a team in terms of having really distinctive content tracks for one platform versus the other. I think the other thing to note is that on both platforms, the younger consumer is on both platforms and they're responding differently on both platforms. So it's a bit of a misnomer to say, listen, TikTok is for the younger consumer because our sweet spot continues to be certain age on both platforms. It's just we see them operating very differently. So I think it is the same content. It's just got really different editing and structuring components. And then I think what you wrap around it is different as well.

6:27So some of the campaign work, it resonates. It just needs different editing. And then obviously the influences that we work with, the additional kind of content constructs is a bit different on each of those platforms. What's interesting is, regardless of platform, the consumer is really inspired by our core collections. So one of our key collections for women, it is Sculptik Cable. It doesn't matter if they're on TikTok or they're on Instagram or they're on YouTube, etc. We see the consumers really respond to this product, to these campaigns. And then what's beautiful about this collection is once they then come in store or they come to site, they can then find different cable options that best reflect where they're at in terms of their jewelry journey or the price points they're looking for, whether it's for themselves, gifting, etc.

7:14And in terms of the buying habits of your consumer, and I would imagine it also varies based upon age, demographics, etc. But where are you seeing the most traction for David Yerman, whether it be direct to consumer or through your various retail partners? There's a couple of ways to answer that. I think you're asking a channel-based question, but also interesting for us, and I get there, is moments. This is a brand that was built on really distinctive moments and marking moments with jewelry. I think if you ask someone who has a debut, you have an item, oh, when did you get that piece? There will be some story behind it, which is perceptional and unique.

7:49So we see really key kind of moments throughout the year that really move a different sales trend. and really leaning into those has been a big win for us in the last few years, really reflecting where consumers come in to the category at different points throughout the year. What's also exciting about our business is that we're moving on all channels. So I think we've got a footprint that continues to expand in retail. So we have continued to grow there. And I think we're seeing some great results there as well across existing doors and new doors. But then e-com continues to fire as well. And they're doing very different things.

8:24things. Ecom does see a greater amount of new consumers coming in for the first time. It's an easier way for new consumers to walk into luxury, right? It's an easier way. It's a slower way. You can spend a little bit of time. You can come back. You can figure it out. What works for you? You can create wish lists, et cetera. But we do see some amazing new consumer conversion there. What's interesting is moving them into store, then that's where we start to see the collectors start to move. So they're spending more. The frequency is greater. They have greater relationships with the brand. And so we really like to reward that as well.

8:58Right. And of course, one of the benefits you have of selling direct in your e-commerce platform is you're able to collect that first party data, which obviously as an age of AI is more valuable than ever before in terms of the ways that you can mine the data, understand your consumer. So how are you using your first party consumer data on a day-to-day basis to make you smarter and to inform decisions you're making? Sure. So yeah, we got data across all of our own footprints, from our retail footprints and then from our e-com footprints. So it is very rich in terms of how we understand the way the consumers behave with the brand, what they navigate towards.

9:32So I think you see it in so many different areas. If you think about how email operates, there's really specific journeys that are designed for different segments of consumers. So where are they at in their life cycle with the brand? Different consumers who are spending at different levels and who have different design philosophies that they really lean into the brand for moving out of email we have so much opportunity and we personalize a lot on site and I think when we're on that journey there's some amazing things on the site already and there's more that's coming there and I think we're also starting to use it in a more innovative way with our media platform so we're starting to get more a lot more sophisticated in terms of when to use our first-party data with existing customers when to use our first-party data to fuel new customers and then I think there's so much that's happening in the creative space as well.

10:22So we start to really test into different creative treatments using some of this data on some of these platforms. Yeah, it's interesting looking at just your career history. Obviously, before David Yerman, you spent a lot of time in the beauty category. You were at L 'Oreal and you were Estee Lauder and obviously cut your teeth at some of the most prestigious luxury and beauty companies in the world, but you also spend time at Google. And just speaking to you, you strike me as sort of a unicorn in the beauty space, not toot your horn, just because a lot of people I speak to in beauty marketing are much more about the art and very little about the science.

11:00They don't necessarily have the depth of understanding that you seem to command in terms of data, in terms of technology. That being said, how important was your time at Google and your overall focus on technology in terms of your success as a marketer? Sure. That's a great question. And listen, I am so grateful for every opportunity I've had in my career. I think every stab, I've learned so much from the different leaders that I've had the opportunity to work with. Google was a really deliberate stab. I looked up at L 'Oreal at one point, I was like, there's a lot of amazing marketers around.

11:30How do I differentiate myself? Because we're all neck and neck with each other. And I think that was when the wave of digital and the wave of data-driven marketing was, you know, you couldn't escape it. And so one of the key things I knew I needed to do was get my hands on the dials. I think as a marketer, you're often two or three agencies or two or three kind of headcounts removed from actually understanding and doing the work. So what better way to learn than kind of throw yourself right into the fire? And that was the opportunity at Google. I had to work with this amazing team and really put recommendations in front of sophisticated C-suite on how best to use Google platforms to achieve XYZ business challenge.

12:08So I think it was an amazing learning ground and I use so much of it today. I use it today with our creative team. I use it with our paid media team. I use it with our e-com team. It has been a huge differentiator and I've mentored a few talents. Some still at L 'Oreal, some still at Google. And I think one of the things I do talk about is when you have started to build and you've solidified strength in a few areas, understand what is going to differentiate you? What is going to take that strength to that next level and make some deliberate, whether it's career moves, whether it's education moves, whether it's stretch projects?

12:42How do you fuel that differentiator? Because I think what you're talking about, and I think it's hard, I often get told I'm a performance marketer or I'm a brand marketer. This idea of thinking both left and right has been really important to me and it's something that I continue to work on. I think one thing you mentioned is essentially getting hands on a keyboard. and I do find that you see a lot of CMOs on stage at Ken talking about all these complex methodologies and jargon but then actually when you pull back a layer, they've never really put their hands on keyboard and understood the tools.

13:17And until you do, you really can't understand what's possible and how to push your agency partners and push people. So I think it is becoming a lost art but I would imagine moving forward, it's gonna become more important than ever before as the tools become far more accessible oh, I'm powerful. A hundred percent. I think one of the things I do with my team as well, we work on the, you know, what's our testing roadmap or what's our learning agenda? And to your point, if you don't understand how Brandly works at Google or how it works at Meta or how different platforms work and what you can A, B, test, it's really hard to steer the team towards understanding some of these macro goals.

13:52And then how are these macro goals going to inform different creative strategies or media strategies or audience strategies? So I think you have to kind of move up and down as a helicopter and stay connected to what's happening on the platforms. And I try and still spend time with the team in the weeds on certain things and with the different leads on the platforms across the channels. So I do understand what's coming through, what's in beta, what are they looking at, how are the platforms thinking about things? because you're right, like this changes. And I think if you get too disconnected, it's hard to balance the strategic steers that you need to make and then the tactical steers that are just as important.

14:31We'll be right back with The Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors. One area where I think art and science meet in your space is an area of personalization. And I think what we're seeing is consumers increasingly want things that both speak to, I guess, a broader cultural trend, but also feels uniquely theirs or has their stamp on it. what is your take on personalization relative to luxury and the jewelry category? Yeah, personalization has been one of the hardest things to crack, right? We've been talking about this for a really long time and it doesn't matter what brand I've worked on or whether it was at Google, you can prove it out in certain pockets and then in other pockets, the theory of it just completely collapses.

15:11I think when you think about different stages of the funnel, in the awareness stage, it really doesn't do anything. It's never really been proven to shift enormously. Maybe you can get some tweaks here and there. It doesn't do an enormous amount. In theory, consideration is where you really can start to personalize the story to different audiences. We're having a really interesting moment where we're finding that the content that we're putting out through consideration, it's deeply resonating with all audiences. There are some slight tweaks where certain audiences want it shorter or longer, but naturally the arc of that story is working.

15:47The conversion piece is the place where it definitely matters. That is, it's where your signals are the greatest. The algorithms fundamentally do so much of that work for you. So we definitely do a lot of work there. And I think there's ways that we have to swing those algorithms a little bit too, because I think the challenge can be it can push you to the lowest common denominator, which can be pricing, which is not always the ideal in luxury. But I think there are other kind of pieces throughout the funnel that we are working on. Where does it matter? where is the lift worth it and where does it, it's just not, it's not a known lifter.

16:22Yeah. So we've touched upon this earlier in the conversation in terms of the power of social platforms. And of course, here in 2025, that means creators, because those are the people who the end consumer is interacting with the majority of the time in social platforms. How have you engaged with creators on behalf of the brand? And what have you found to be a successful recipe to drive real ROI from those engagements? Yeah, it's a great question. And I think the frame in ROIs is also an interesting one too. I think the way we think about content creators is pretty broad because as a luxury brand, you've got to influence, then you've got to drive consideration.

17:00And then obviously there is the conversion. So we think a lot about some of our creators are the talent that we work with. So whether it's Michael B. Jordan or Aza Gonzalez, when they post on behalf of the brand, so whether it's through a collaborator post or they're posting and tagging the brand, we get exceptional performance of that. That association with the brand really does help elevate the brand and pushes the brand out to a broader audience, so to their deep fan base, which is fantastic. We also work with a lot of D1 talent through luxury type events, whether it is red carpet awards or music awards or all the way through to work that we did with the U.S.

17:40Open last year. And then you've got this true creator type talent, the talent that is really, we put the creative in their hands. And so that does another layer of work that will generally encourage consumers to spend more time with it, which is we know is the proxy for consideration. And then we do start to see great results off the back of that. I think the way the platforms are set up in terms of reading really direct ROI, not as strong, but then we see it when we run different types of tests throughout the year. The impact that we see as a brand, whether it is in paid media or organic in the social space, is really powerful for our brand.

18:18We know, right, Instagram continues to be the number one shopping mall. It's where consumers come to learn about new product and a brand that really is scaling its awareness and consideration. that kind of ecosystem with that kind of layered system of talent and with the advertising kind of wrapping around it is working for us. Yeah. And we're seeing that, obviously, the notion of also creators owning the brand, whether it be like Skims. There's so many examples of people who are either have a following or they gain a following through attaching their name to a luxury product. That also seems to be working as well because they are intimately connected with it.

18:56It does. I think the magic of those different tiers is particular if you think about, you know, tier two, tier three, they can help translate the brand to their audience. Brands telling the brand story to a consumer, having them sit down and say, listen, there's some time I want you to spend with this brand, learn more about it. The brand advertising will always struggle to do that. But having this talent translate, listen, here's what's important to know, whether it's about the brand or the product, you can get consumers to spend more time there. and that's where we start to see some of the familiarity scores really move in a positive direction.

19:30Yeah, it makes sense. And how do you see AI impacting both your organization and your role moving forward? It's obviously such a hot button right now and I think for good reason because it's really transforming the way in which we communicate and that we work. Just curious to see your point of view on this. Yeah, I think everybody's right step was AI equals creativity. What can AI do with creativity? And I think we've seen a lot of false starts. which is challenging in the luxury space when heritage and the high quality craftsmanship is so integral to the brand and is so deeply valued by the brand.

20:04It's something we have to be very careful with. So there's some work that we have in play right now that is starting to take some of the AI and has got more of our craftsmanship kind of intertwined. So we can talk more about that as that gets going. but definitely in an MVP phase there. I think it's going to be incremental in terms of how creativity starts to turn up, that visual expression of creative, how AI plays a role there. I think there's obviously, I mean, AI has long been the backbone of our media platforms and how we buy and how we optimize. I think what I am super appreciative of my team is they are really focusing on leaning in there.

20:42So some of these targeting components have passed, they're really challenging the norm. Like right now on these platforms, let's let the algorithm decide the targeting. So getting comfortable with that is something that I think we as marketers are wrestling with, but I really appreciate my team pushing in there and using those algorithms as hard as they possibly can. And then I think there's all of the data analysis. So how are we using AI to understand different things about the consumers, the insights, behaviors, et cetera, and then what do we do with that? So how do we then use that to model what happens next?

21:14I think they're the kind of three tracks that we're thinking about. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up your team because we have a lot of younger listeners here on the podcast. And I was just curious, like, if you were to give some advice to people starting out in their career in marketing that wouldn't end up in a CMO seat one day. Like what are the tried and true attributes you've seen of rising stars at the companies you've worked for that maybe you would want to impart on the next generation of leaders to really focus on and embrace in their own right? I think one of the things I talk to my team about is developing that strategic thought leadership skill set early and using that to frame your recommendations.

21:54I think it's hard to build the strategic thinking skill set. And I think you'll have different opportunities in your career to really lean into that. But the faster you can lean into that, whether it's through learning, whether it's through hands-on, whether it's through certain projects. Once you start to nail architectures of how to structure strategic thinking, it enables you to have a more senior seat at the table. People lean in and listen. It's no longer a tactical recommendation. That's a really important statement and recommendation that person's making. And so that is really what helps more senior talent lean in and elevate that person and elevate that person's work.

22:32So I don't think we spend enough time talking about that and coaching our teams and our talent to that. But it's a huge, huge differentiator. Yeah, I mean, sometimes we just glamorize ideas and shiny objects versus how we got there. And ideas kind of, I don't want to say a dime a dozen, but some work, some don't. But if you're tapping to the right insight, then you're setting yourself up over time to be successful. Right. And achieving a certain objective, it's not going to take one idea. It might take, listen, this is what we're going after, right? This is strategy A. This is MVP one, MVP two, MVP three.

23:05If teams really come to you with that sort of recommendation, it's such a powerful way of thinking that as a leader, I think you really lean in to help test and learn and support their thinking. Yeah. So shifting gears, we wrap up here. Just in talking about your career and all the great places you've been at, what gives you conviction to kind of make the leap and go somewhere else? And some of this has been to a completely new industry and others has been within the same industry. But at what point are you able to take a step back and say, you know what? This new opportunity is good enough for me to leave my comfort zone where I am today to go to a whole new journey.

23:40It's always something that fascinates me with people like you who've had such a prolific career at so many great companies. I think I'm driven by a challenge and an opportunity. When I connected with the David Yeoman team and speaking to Evan, who is David and Sybil's son, and he leads the organization, he's an exceptional thinker. His vision for the brand is phenomenal. Hearing that vision and hearing how we were going, what it would take to get there, I'm like, sign me up. I wish I wasn't like this, but make it hard and make it complex. And that sort of stuff excites me. I love having problems to solve.

24:15I think the other thing is seeing an opportunity you believe in. There is so much in this brand that's not been exposed to consumers at scale. That to me is super exciting. When you can sit there and you're having a conversation with someone and you're really starting to already frame out exactly what needs to be done and you can see it so clearly. Like I would be so disappointed if I didn't get to do this. So I think I want to have the passion. I want to see the challenge and I want to see as long as the vision for me is landing. And I also think as I grow in my career, the culture of the organization that I work for really matters.

24:52And I have to say, it's an amazing ex-co, David Yeoman. They are highly supportive, as we know, right? It's challenging being a CMO and constantly validating the expense and the impact of the work. And they have been partners throughout that entire journey and having an exceptional team Whether it's my leads or whether it's the teams underneath them, there's so much great thinking that is coming through. And I think what's exciting is they've all signed up to come on this transformation as well. And I think we're all achieving it together. So super rewarding. Yeah, for sure. It sounds like a wild ride and obviously it's just a great, exciting place to work.

25:29So if you look back at your career and you were to kind of extract some of the decisions that you think you made that were the right ones along the way that put you in a position that you are today, what do you think they were? I think having a really strong grounding in consumer packaged goods in my early stages, it was the pinnacle of marketing when I kind of came through. And it is a really structured, rigorous balance of analytic and creative thinking that means you're almost a GM of marketing. so I use that a lot so I think if you can think through as you're starting out where is best in class in your given industry and as best as you can to get yourself in that space it will be an amazing grounding I think put yourself in really challenging situations and understand how you grow right L 'Oreal is an amazing fast-paced culture full of brilliant thinkers that will really challenge you and challenge you again until the work is absolutely exceptional and Google's the same.

26:31This idea of moving at the speed of light, you have to be a really top thinker. You have to constantly challenge your own work because you know it's going to be challenged by others. I think that those two are really exceptional grounds in terms of constantly look for the opportunity, look for the problem that maybe others don't see and look for it in your own work as well so you can make sure that you're finessing and you're evolving. I think the third thing I would say is understand where your gaps are and run towards them. Whether it was at Google or, you know, I continue to work with an executive coach and I probably will throughout my entire career.

27:03Your strengths are always your Achilles heel. So there will always be things that I have to work on to evolve my leadership style and to grow and to evolve. And also with the next generation of talent that's coming through, their expectations of leaders are really different as well. So leaning into those areas of opportunity will make you grow, whether it's a skill set or whether it's an expertise or whether it's stylistically. and do the big three things. Yeah, that's well said. And I'm sure that our audience listening is taking a furious note on your feedback because I think you've left a lot of wisdom for us to think about today.

27:37So I really appreciate, Carolyn, you taking the time today. It was a great episode and I can't wait for our audience to hear it. No, thank you so much for having me, Abe. Absolutely. On behalf of Susie and Adway team, thanks again to Carolyn Dawkins, the Chief Marketing Officer of David Ureman for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time, see you soon, everyone. Take care.

27:59The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Agass Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com slash podcasts. To find out more about Suzy, head to suzy.com. And make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening. Hey!