Playing the Long Game: CarMax on Turning Fandom Into Brand Loyalty

0:00Brand Week is back September 15th through the 17th in downtown Atlanta. And if you're serious about where marketing is going, this is the room for you. I'm Jenny Rooney, Chief Brand and Community Officer at Adweek. And for three days, we're bringing together the sharpest minds in marketing for the ideas, insights and connections shaping what comes next for brands. From culture and creativity to growth, leadership, and consumer behavior, Brand Week is where brand leaders come to think bigger, connect deeper, and leave with a clearer plan for what's ahead. Get your tickets now at brandweek.com and use code BW26 for 20 % off.

0:36That's brandweek.com, code BW26.

0:43Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive-sounding metric I had. Impressions. Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a$250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. I think at the core is like having a great brand identity. So CarMax was the original disruptor, bringing fairness to this industry that was really taking advantage of consumers all along the way.

1:24And having that core along the entire way with us, always being able to harken back to that while the change is happening around us has been a tremendous benefit. To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

1:56Up to the Speed of Culture podcast, we are thrilled to welcome Sarah Lane, the Chief Marketing Officer at CarMax. Sarah has spent more than two decades helping build one of the most recognizable brands in automotive retail, leading everything from consumer insights and analytics to brand strategy, digital experience, and customer transformation. Sarah, so great to see you today. Yeah, great to be here. Thanks, Mel. Big fan of the brand and big fan of everything you do. You spent more than 20 years at CarMax really watching marketing evolve from mass media to a much more programmatic, AI-driven world that we live in today.

2:29What has really changed about how consumers decide to trust a brand? What does it mean to build a brand here in 2026? Well, you're right. I've been here two decades, which I recognize is a little bit rare in our field, but it's been such a benefit for me. And I think it's been so amazing to watch this brand grow during that time and follow the consumer change and the industry change that's been going on at the same time. And I think at the core is like having a great brand identity. So CarMax was the original disruptor, bringing fairness to this industry that was really taking advantage of consumers all along the way.

2:58And having that core along the entire way with us, always being able to harken back to that while the change is happening around us has been a tremendous benefit. I think I count myself as super lucky to have a brand that's got such a strong ethos in that way. And so I think as we've evolved things, of course, all the themes that I'm sure all of your guests talk about, staying super close to the consumer, listening, understanding how things are evolving, both in how they want to shop and interact with us, as well as how we're going to reach them and all the different potential that has opened up over the years and that.

3:29It's been just a tremendous journey and really fun to follow that evolution. Yeah, and of course, like you are in the car buying space, which is historically one of the most stressful consumer experiences. So I guess what are the insights you've learned over time to try to maybe reduce that friction and make it seem less like a dentist appointment? Because so many people that when they think about buying a car, they think about stressful negotiations and a lot of back and forth. And obviously that's not what consumers want in the age when they're used to just pressing a button and getting an Uber or ordering from Amazon.

4:00Just curious what your thoughts are on the process itself. It's really fascinating because there still is that huge industry baggage of where you expect you're gonna be taken advantage of in this process. And largely, surprisingly, that still is very much true today. Despite the fact that we've existed for 30 years, there's been a lot of concept copying along the way that has brought concepts like no hassle and other things to bear that have really been great benefits to the consumer. Unfortunately, there's still this hangover and there still is the way that traditional dealers operate that really does make profit by taking advantage of the areas of understanding how to do financing and what to value trade and the complexity of the purchase, that it's pretty easy to take advantage of consumers.

4:40And so I think that's why we built this on trust. And I think today consumers have more information than ever. They've got digital resources at their fingertips. They can do all this education. And I think the big unlock here recently that's so exciting for consumers is the LLMs and what they're getting in Chattano Beauty. We're learning that about 40 % of our customers are using those tools when they're shopping for a car. I just went through a car buying process and used those tools myself as well too. And it's unbelievable the help that it can provide to help all the information to symmetry that exists out there to really get a great vehicle recommendation at the end of the day.

5:15And so it's all these things, consumers are seeking the truth. They're seeking to be treated fairly. They're seeking to do a lot at home. So the digital aspects of things, and we've brought a lot of this to bear over the years, if you can fully buy a car online, you can get any aspect of the deal you want to figure out on your own digitally. You can do that at CarMax. You can be at other places as well, too, to figure out your financing situation, to figure out how much you can get for a trade. All of that can be done online. But at the end of the day, what we find consumers really want, though, is to come in and touch and feel a car at some point.

5:47Whether that's early on in the exploration of what is it that I want and what is it. Pictures and digital merchandising can do a tremendous job to show you the differences between car A and car B. But nothing beats sitting in them, dragging them, flowing them, touching them to get the joy and the feel of what really is going to fit your needs. And so that's something that CarMax is kind of uniquely positioned to offer is all the benefits of digital. But the ability to come and touch and feel before you have to commit to the purchase to test drive the car. before you have to commit the purchase.

6:17And so I think we live in a nice little sweet spot that meets the consumer exactly where they want with that ease of digital and that confidence of the physical. Yeah, it's interesting you talk about LLMs because we really are living in a new age of consumer empowerment. I think for so long, businesses, not all businesses, but many took advantage of like the information arbitrage, you know, where basically they know something that the consumer doesn't and then they're able to take advantage of it. They're saying that it costs$4 ,000 of future transmission when it should cost$2 ,000 or to get anything fixed in your home.

6:50And now consumers really can not just do research on how much something costs or what the features and benefits are, they can actually localize it to their market, to their zip code, and really understand. So I think it's good that you as a CMO of CarMax have pointed out as a positive because I think a lot of businesses in the past, to your point earlier, have traditionally kind of taken advantage of something like that, that lack of information. I think you're really lucky. To be on the other side of it would be a lot more difficult than being on the side of you've been transparent all along.

7:18All that information has always been available to customers for us. And so if these kinds of tools help to streamline, organize, whatever, that's fine. We've got no issue with that. We're going to offer a great deal. We're going to offer great financing terms. We're going to offer you the best we can for your trade. And so as you're putting together all those pieces, if anything, I think it helps them get the transparency on the side of all the others where none of that was clear before to better evaluate the deal. and really recognize the value that we've offered all along. And that when you put all those pieces together, when you do all that math, a CarMax deal is going to be the best one you can find.

7:51So I think we see this change, consumer change is nothing but good for us. We certainly recognize that it's going to change the dynamic of the funnel, maybe people visit the site a little bit less than their upper funnel as maybe Interacto Chachupiti or Gemini as they're doing that instead. So it's going to change the math and the way that we measure and understand the journey. But I think we're positioned incredibly well to benefit from that change. Absolutely. So I want to get into kind of the tactics you're leaning into to build the brand, because I know that CarMax early bet on women's sports and way before it was kind of in vogue.

8:25And now you have the Caitlin Clarks of the world really bringing women's sports to the front page and the WNBA is doing so well. And you're seeing this really play out all around the world. And I know that's kind of led to a broader remit for the company to really lean into sports. Why is sports so important for CarMax? And what are some of the ways you guys were activating that you're particularly excited about? Yeah, so we've been doing things in sports for like decades now in different ways. And I guess we've gone from a local company to a big national brand. In the early days, we were doing local team sponsorships as ways to build awareness and affinity and markets that we were coming into.

8:59But it was around 2020 that we were really embarking on some of this digital transformation that we were doing, becoming more of a digital brand, needing to kind of refresh the way we were going to market, the visual identity, other things to modernize things and make sure we were not thought of as that old place where you used to go to the dealerships and more, no, the online company where you can buy a car. And so we were looking for ways to modernize. We stumbled into basketball. And honestly, it was initially from the men's side of things. So NBA, of course, is so known as being youthful and connected to culture.

9:30And so that alignment to that felt like the right thing at that time. But as we began to engage with the league and learning about the WNBA side of things. Sure, it was before the big inflection point of a year ago, but the league was growing. The league was still growing. There was a lot of interest there. There was a lot of connection. The audiences there looked a lot like our audiences. If you think about who maybe we appeal more to, it's a person that sometimes feels more disenfranchised, whether that's women in car shopping, other minority groups that have been used to being taken advantage of more so than maybe the white man out there, right?

10:03And so the audience lined up really well. And of course, the numbers, the audience sizes weren't as big as the NBA by any stretch, but even as big as today. But the prices were in line for it, too. And so as we assessed that, we ended up doing both. So we ended up signing with the NBA and the WNBA at that time. And we were excited about the WNBA. They were smaller, but it was something that we felt like there could be a nice connection with. Fans were really passionate, too. And so it made sense. It was kind of an obvious expression of our values to support everybody. We're here for men and women.

10:33So it just made a lot of sense. But I think at that time, we didn't quite understand how big it could be for us. And I think the inflection point in that was like pretty early on in it, where we did some work with Steph Curry and Sue Bird. We've been doing some talent and putting talent in some of our content in the local senses. This was the first time we had kind of a big national campaign with things. And we had this one particular spot where the concept of something, a sales consultant was working with Steph and like remarking on his excitement over selling a car to a three-time league champion or four-time, I think.

11:06And Steph corrected and said, actually, I'm only on three. And this consultant pointed over to Sue Bird and she waved and said, oh, no, I got to work with Sue Bird today. Something like that. So like a cute little joke, making a nod to how successful she had been versus this male athlete who everybody knows and thinks of as an eye-to-be force. And so we just thought it was cute and flattered, whatever. But once that ran, it really like it sparked something bigger. We got a bunch of media for it, a bunch of social chatter. It was in, you know, some of the sports talk shows and things like that.

11:35And I think it was a big aha to us that there was something kind of brewing here that said something more than just connecting to an audience, but said something more about us as a brand. And a message that I think, honestly, the market has been hard to say. Like I think when your brand is all about honesty and integrity and fairness, you can't make ads that say that. You just have to behave that way every day, which we do and we have and we've earned that trust over time. But this was an actual like marketing activation that helped to tell that story just by the stories we were telling to support and drop up the players in the league.

12:10And so it was tremendous. Then we began to do more with it. We began to tie measurement to all that to make sure that it was the right moves and decisions for us. But it's really been tremendous. And I'd love to say that we had the forethought that we knew it was going to just skyrocket from it. We didn't. We knew it was growing and we were happy about that. But I think it became much bigger than what we envisioned it was going to be in the beginning. Well, I mean, the world is shifting to live sports just being such a premium way to reach consumers because everything else on television is time shifted.

12:38it. I think we are in a social media driven world. We're starving for places of commonality where we can discuss things that multiple different groups can kind of lean into. And sports is certainly that. And I think one interesting thing about sports, and we just had Todd Kaplan, who's the chief marketing officer of Kraft Heinz on the podcast, who just made a huge investment in the NFL. And when we were talking to him, it became clear that different generations consume sports differently. It's almost like we used to consume the albums growing up and now younger consumers just consume the song or just a clip of a song.

13:15And I would argue the same thing happens with sports. We used to watch the whole games. Now we follow players or we're watching clips. How has kind of that new shift with Gen Z changed the way you look at activating within sports? For sure. I mean, and it's even more so in women's sports, I think, because these players have audiences, they came up in a generation where they have to be influenced. They're building their brands as the league is growing. And so we found them to be much more keyed in on building their social brands, willingness to do content, other things with us. And so it's opened up.

13:49There's certainly still the elements of the logos on the forks and all the media value aspects of it, that making sure we're doing those in ways that are going to be visible and social and not just in the broadcast, of course, since everyone's consumed, you know, younger folks are consuming it all differently. But I mean, really what it's opened up in terms of the creator economy and all things influencer is there's all these different, besides there's the players themselves that are great content creators. And we found tons of success using different players to give access to maybe behind the scenes at an all-star event or things like that, that are going to open up and give some visibility to unique things that the fan is interested to see.

14:26But also there's he's like subcultures around it as well, too, of different folks that are like known for creating clever content around sports. And so it's just broadened this ecosystem so far beyond what sports was 15, 20 years ago. It's a logo on a sign, some spots in the game, so like really endless amounts of choices of how to engage. And I think it's some of those like deeper connective things that are really working for us with younger audiences, with the fan, the passionate fan that exists in this women's face. We'll be right back with the speed of culture after a few words from our sponsors.

14:59Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a$250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

15:31Brand Week is back September 15th through the 17th in downtown Atlanta. And if you're serious about where marketing is going, this is the room for you. I'm Jenny Rooney, Chief Brand and Community Officer at Adweek. And for three days, we're bringing together the sharpest minds in marketing for the ideas, insights, and connections shaping what comes next for brands. From culture and creativity to growth, leadership, and consumer behavior, Brand Week is where brand leaders come to think bigger, connect deeper, and leave with a clearer plan for what's ahead. Get your tickets now at brandweek.com and use code BW26 for 20 % off.

16:08That's brandweek.com, code BW26.

16:15I know you've also used women's sports and WNBA specifically to activate on a local level. So I know you have a partnership with Paige Buchers, which incorporated like local Dallas area aspects. Talk to me about how you're able to localize with some of your athletes. Yeah, I mean, there's a local aspect and there's also just like the authenticity aspect that I think, I mean, it's probably relevant for all sports and all things that you align with. But But I think what we've really found with women's sports is the fans have been there for a long time. They appreciate the brands that show up for them and support because they know that it's a business.

16:52They know that for it to gain the momentum and the popularity they want, the brands have to be there to support. And I think what's been so key to us is listening to those fans and being an authentic partner. Again, beyond the logos, beyond all that stuff, but really understanding what are the stories that are going on. It all starts with us being the fans. So like our team and our agency, the team formerly of Wasserman have been really influential and thought leader of like, if you're in play in the space, you have to know the space, you have to know the players, you have to know the storylines.

17:21And that's what the fans are really going to resonate with. And so we've had a bunch of great examples. The Paige Beckers one is one where, you know, she like, what an amazing personality, what an amazing talent, you know, number one draft pick last year. We were eager to align with her for sure. But what a fun story. She grew up in Minnesota, was in Connecticut. kid and all of a sudden got drafted to Texas. Like total culture shock for her. And so it's a cute, not those types of stories that it's not rocket science. Like the fans know that happened. The people who don't really know Paige, they probably don't recognize the vibe she's in a cowboy hat or whatever, but it's a little link and a nod to the fandom.

17:56And I think that's what we have found to get more amplification of the work that we're doing. And other examples with Asia Wilson, who was a two-time MVP at the time that we shot some content, but we knew that she was on a tear. We knew that when we were filming some of the things we were doing in the spring, that likely by the end of the season, she might be a three-time MVP. So we filmed our spot with her making a comment about that she's a two-time MVP, but we also filmed it as a three-time. And when that then happened, thankfully, we swapped out with creative. We amplified some social around it.

18:29We got a bunch to earn media. And it's like a wink to the fans. It's like, we're here with you. We get it. We know it more than just we're putting the solo in the spots. And I think that's been key is like really acting and behaving like a family, listening and authentically connecting in that way. There's even a crew called the Stud Butts. Do you know who they are? I don't know. So two WNBA talents, so Courtney Williams and Atisha Heidelman, they blew up last year at the All-Star fans. So they made some super fun behind the scenes content, not branded by CarMax or anything like that, but it went absolutely viral.

19:02They're all over TikTok. And so again, that's a thing that only a true like women's sports fan would know that that happened. We of course needed that. We were fans. So we watched that. We knew that. We brought them a few months later to a soccer event to film some content for us around the NWSL skills challenge and final. It was such a fun crossover. It's another one of those spots where we could have just ignored that, right? We could have not tapped into it. But by knowing these stories, tapping into what's hot right now, it's just really helping us to create halo around all the work. Yeah, it's interesting.

19:33The other way sports has changed is just when you talk about athletes and athlete stories, we just have so much more access to the life of athletes. Like we see them share their thoughts year round during the off season. We see what they're wearing and the headphones they're wearing when they're walking into the tunnel of the game. And many of them started their own businesses and are entrepreneurs in their own right. So when you work with athletes, it's not just about the highlights on the court. It's really about being part of their story and part of their journey. Definitely. And I think the particularly again, back to the women, like they are committed to building their own brands because they've had to, right?

20:09That's how they're going to make money in this. They're not coming out of the draft with million dollar contracts. Maybe one of them is nowadays, but back a few years ago and certainly today, the majority are still not. And so I think their added incentive to like really be willing to put themselves out there to create personalities for themselves. And we've actually been able to do some things for a change makers relationship with the WNBA, which is a level of sponsorship where there's a commitment to actually helping the league grow beyond just a normal sponsorship. And as part of that, we've had a theme of access to help the talent build their brands.

20:42And so it started with like media training. So these women coming out of college hadn't had a lot of media training. They always had their thrust into the spotlight, particularly as the popularity has grown. So we've been doing some media training and things for them. But this year, we actually pivoted that to be more influencer training. You know, the world is changing, right? So it's both, you got to be able to show up and talk to the media and build your brand there. But we really focused it more this time. We brought the stud bugs back, big influencers on the basketball scene to help us some training of their social spaces.

21:11But they're coming in so savvy already on that. I think even with NIL, they all recognize in college that this is something that's a huge part of being an athlete today is becoming learning how to be an influencer and creator at the same time. Absolutely. I mean, it's one of the things that young kids want to be the most right now is an influencer when they grow up. And right now, the Cannes Lions advertising festival is going on. And a lot of people who are there saying it's the year of the creator economy has finally taken over. And if you think about this year for the first time ever, I say this during a lot of my podcasts, I think it's such an interesting stat.

21:43for the first time ever, the average age of a first-time mother in the U.S. is Gen Z, which means she grew up with the iPhone, which means she's consuming content not on traditional media, but on the iPhone. And more often than not, when they're consuming media on the small screen, they're consuming media from other people, which is where the creators come in. Yeah, no, for sure. I think just like any company, it's become a much, much larger piece of our mix. And there's still some catch-up in terms of measurement and understanding of what we're doing, I think we've got a pretty good kind of balanced portfolio approach from some of our like heavy brand work all the way down to like heavy duty performance marketing, where that sits in the mix.

22:19There's certain things that we just got to try and be there and do a lot of it and try to be the measurement on the back end of that and hope that it works with a really strong strategy to it. So I think it's a place of lots of work that we're doing both on the sports side and the non-sports side to tap into different moments that are going on, different seasonal times where car shopping, when you get a tax return, that's a big time for car shopping. the financial influencers. So we're doing lots of different things across the year to tap into that. And as excited as you are about Gen Z, I'll mention that Gen Alpha this year is getting their driver's license.

22:51So we're excited about that and thinking a lot about that. What's interesting is I have two small children, two and five. And one thing I think about is, are they ever going to drive a car? By the time they get to be 16, 17, is it all going to be autonomous vehicles? It's so interesting to think about. Well, what's funny, Matt, is I have a 16-year-old son. And 16 years ago, 17, whenever I was pregnant with him, we were doing some work with a consulting firm around kind of the store of the future and doing the fun exercises that you do to think about 15 years from now, how's the world going to be different?

23:23And I remember standing there with my big pregnant belly and I said to the group, I bet I'm not even going to teach this kid how to drive. Like, they won't even drive someday. I love the little silly now, because I mean, I felt that. I felt that with conviction back then. There was so much going on with autonomous cars and everything, it seemed like inevitable that that would be the case. But here we are. He's 16. He's got a license. He's one of these turn off his phone right now. Yeah. I mean, there's so much infrastructure, I think, that has to support driverless vehicle at scale. And that takes municipalities and bureaucracy and that takes a long time.

23:55So you're right. Everything usually does take a lot longer than we think it's going to. Have you ever been in a driverless vehicle before? Have you ever ridden in one, Sarah, in a Waymo? What are your thoughts on it? Were you scared? No, I think it's fine. We own a Tesla too that like drives for you sometimes. So kind of used to that feeling. I mean, I think overall it's probably safer, right? If everybody have one, I think where it gets a little dice is when it's a mix. That's exactly right. So shifting gives you a wrap up here. I would love to talk about you and your career journey. You began your career in consumer insights and analytics before becoming CMO.

24:27How do you think that foundation kind of shaped the marketing leader that you've become today? Yeah. I mean, I think it's a lucky foundation from a couple of different standpoints. Obviously, understanding the consumer, following the consumer, like every marketer, that's job one. And so being able to kind of grow up close to the way all the listening posts that we have and how those have evolved over these years, it's just in my DNA to focus in that way. And I think that's a really lucky way to have started. And on the analytics side, too, it just gets you closer to the business. And I think that's such an important part as you grow into a CMO, right, is to speak the speak, to understand the business, how we make money, how the interconnections work between all the different functions and getting to like grow up in that and learn that as time when I only think was, has been really helpful for sure.

25:12And was there sort of a moment, I guess, along your journey where you sort of gained the confidence or conviction that you could lead at the executive level? Because I think a lot of our younger listeners feel like I'm an individual contributor. I don't think I could ever really be a leader. Maybe a lot of people think that early in your journey. But clearly there's a moment for you and many others where kind of the light switch flips on and you gain confidence that you can be an executive and you can one day be a CMO. That's a good question. I don't know that there was a light switch moment or whether it was sort of a gradual.

25:43I think I had a lot of great managers along the way that pushed me into roles that honestly I didn't feel ready for at the time. I mean, many times. And I remember being like, oh my gosh, are you sure I can do it? And they would be so great of you can definitely do this. you've got this, I'm here to support you. And so I could get moments like the first time I managed a team and like it was a group of folks that were like really good, pretty good and talented and that was a little bit of imposter syndrome in that moment. But then it was such a great confidence boost to do it and do it well and feel like I've built up the skillset to actually lead people.

26:14And then I've been really lucky on mastering it. So I would take steps kind of right as I was on the cusp of being ready for them, getting some early confidence and then helped me to believe I could do the next one. And luck's obviously a part of it, but obviously you wouldn't be where you are today and on this awesome podcast if you didn't make some right decisions along the way. So when you look back at your journey, besides taking the leap into roles that maybe you didn't feel you were ready for, which as I mentioned earlier, we hear a lot that people, you kind of, no one's really ready to do something new and you just have to bet on yourself.

26:44And I'm glad that you said that because it's really reinforcing what we hear a lot. But are there other things that you think you've done right along the way, whether it's skillsets you've leaned into or relationships that have set you up for success? Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing to me that's been a through line in everything is like staying really curious along the path. And I think there's been an amazing amount of people that have opened their doors to help you learn, whether that be internal things or external things, but especially internally, that been able to just like collect skills along the way, kind of moving across.

27:16I mean, I have really been within the marketing chain, primarily though I worked in the sales team for a little while. I mean, I sort of moved a little bit sideways as I went up the chain as well, too. And I think it helps to have a curious mindset. I think that's the number one piece of advice that I give people is like, stay curious, stay learning. And if you find yourself not interested in that, then you're probably not in the right role. But I think things here have always been so freaking interesting to me, both learning the internal and the business dynamics. There's so many different interconnections between our pricing and our inventory and our operations and our finance that all work together to like drive this business forward.

27:53And I'm still learning. Like I've been here 23 years and I'm still learning and I'm still not shy to ask questions and not on doors. And I think that's just such a critical part of it. And if I want to be able to lead the growth of this company, like I've got to understand all that stuff. And I think somewhere you're saying curious on the external, right? I mean, it's that part the easier and maybe the more fun that I would imagine most people, if you're in marketing, that probably comes a bit naturally to you to be curious about the customer, but also how media is evolving and all the changes in our industry and technology and AI and all that stuff.

28:24I'd say right now is the most fun time. There's been all those changes along the way, mobile, social, all the things that have changed our industry. But this AI one is super, super fun. I couldn't agree more. It scares a lot of people. And I think a lot of people don't really know what future-proofing themselves look like because it is not necessarily just learning AI. It's really retraining yourself on reprioritizing a different set of skills that I think are going to matter moving forward because I'm of the belief set that like the knowledge economy. We talk about earlier the arbitrage of knowledge where companies used to be able to take advantage of it and now consumers have knowledge and that's kind of going away.

29:03But everybody has knowledge, which basically means in the workforce, that's no longer just a competitive advantage. So just knowing how to do something like write a contract or doing someone's taxes isn't really enough anymore as AI gets smarter at doing it. So it's so much on the soft skills, the critical thinking, the creativity, the problem solving that those are the areas that we have to really lean in. yeah yeah i totally agree and like and staying on your toes right i mean staying nimble staying figuring out what that is going to do and that's what you need to do and how you work with that like it's always just about the evolution we're never going to be doing the same we never have like been doing the same thing like year after year after year you got to be evolving and i think this is making us but in good ways for sure it's been a great conversation to wrap up we always ask our guests if there's a saying or mantra that has helped encapsulate the professional majority so far, given that you're such an avid sports fan?

29:53Maybe you'll have something from the sports world or who knows, but we'll love to hear what first comes to mind. One thing I try to keep in mind always is like, take the work seriously, but don't take yourself seriously. Everything in business, it all moves so fast and the stakes are real and getting things right and fast, it's all important. But the world also changes so quickly too. And so I think making sure that there's like rigor about the work, I take that super seriously, but also like humility and lightness to stay open, to stay curious, and to have a ton of fun doing it, right? I think we are so privileged to get to work in our field.

30:25It's got to be the most fun job out there, I think, right? Certainly in a corporate environment, I can't think of another one. Being a WNBA player is probably pretty fun, though. Sure. But for those of us not as skilled to do in a corporate environment, like working in marketing, like what could be more cool than that? So maybe should we balance it all? Absolutely. Well, I love that. I think it's great advice. And I think you have to be open-minded. the FB Curious, so many of the points you hit on are things that we often hear, and it's great to see it coming together for you. So, congratulations on your success, and looking forward to continuing to cheer you and CarMax along from the sidelines.

30:58So, thanks for taking the time today, Sarah. Great. I appreciate it. Take care. On behalf of Susie and Ida Wekeen, thanks again to Sarah Lane, the Chief Marketing Officer of CarMax, for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe or review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, see you soon, everyone. Bye-bye.

31:16The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Agass Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com slash podcasts. To find out more about Suzy, head to suzy.com. And make sure to search for The Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Susie, thanks for listening.

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