Pull the levers: How Ryu Yokoi is powering Unilever's data-driven, social-first future

0:00That's the desire and that helps me sleep at night because I know if something isn't working right today, you can learn from that and you can make the thing better in a way that you couldn't make it work. for a long time before. I don't have to live with that anymore. I can do something about it. So I find that really empowering. To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever-increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up.

0:33Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

0:40We're here live at the Possible Conference in Miami, and today we are thrilled to welcome Ryu Yokoi, the Chief Media and Marketing Capabilities Officer for North America at Unilever. With an impressive career that spans leadership roles at Unilever and Schmidt's Naturals, Ryu is at the forefront of driving digital transformation, leveraging data, and creating purpose-driven campaigns at scale. Ryu, so great to see you today. Wow. Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely. Quite the introduction, but quite the career you've had. I need to have you with me at all times. It's my hype, man. Don, I could be your little AI person that everyone has joined.

1:11Big AI person. There you go. I'll take it. I'll take it. So tell me about your current role at Unilever. You've been there for a while and have had a variety of different roles. And tell me where your focus is right now. Yeah. So I came up within the organization, all brand stuff for like the first 13, 14 years. I've been with the company for 19 years now. Wow. Straight. It's been a minute. Yeah. And a great experience. A whole start of the journey, just brand roles. You mentioned Schmitz. as sort of one foot in, one foot out thing where I went to actually lead an acquisition that we had done of Schmitz into the Unilever world and integrating it in.

1:46I did that for a couple of years. And then I've been on a slightly different journey. So I came back in during COVID. I came in to lead our transformation into e-commerce marketing. The whole world was changing how they were shopping. We really needed to take a step up there, transform our capabilities. Like direct-to-consumer? Well, we don't do direct-to-consumer primarily. We have some of our acquisition brands have direct-to-consumer practices, But for the most part, it's omni-channel and some pure play, obviously, with Amazon as a massive source of our growth. But we needed to really ship up our act in order to be competitive and drive growth and compete in that space.

2:20In places like Amazon, Walmart.com. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So at the same time that was happening, we've had this massive convergence, thanks to data, of the commerce and the media space. And so it was natural. I started doing more and more in digital marketing, first taken on, then media. and now I'm the Chief Media and Marketing Capabilities Officer, which means I look after everything from our digital marketing, our media, our digital commerce practice, our shopper marketing, sort of other scale sort of practice. So I get to look after and it's a privilege. You know, I joined Unilever 19 years ago.

2:50I wanted to work at the company that I thought was the best marketing company in the world. And it's just an incredible honor now to be in a position where I get to kind of shape what our marketing practice should look like and what we think good marketing looks like. So I get up out of bed every day really fired up about it. So how is marketing a CPG company like Unilever different today than it was two decades ago when you joined? Obviously, lots of ways, but what comes to mind? Well, I think the biggest one that fits into sort of into your world, I would say is, so I went to B school at Penn.

3:20And there's such an emphasis there, data-driven marketing, data-driven marketing. I had like amazing professors there and we ran all these simulations. And in all of them, you know, you'd be with your team thinking, well, sure, the marketing plan B. And then they would give you like different, this happens. And it seemed like the kind of thing where you could make all those changes so fast. And when I graduated, this is like 20 years ago now, I had the stark realization that the data didn't flow that fast. The data wasn't constructed and structured the way that you were seeing it there. And so it was just much less iterative.

3:48And today, I think data is this incredible equalizer. So I'm just thinking about this over the weekend where I feel like now so much of the stuff I did academically is really possible for everybody all the time now. where the data is sort of rewarding you with that signal all the time in terms of how you can make better, you can make changes. And now with AI, you can actually respond to them so much faster. And so I think in both fronts, it's easy academically as a student when I was first graduating, say like, oh, you know, those are the signals, then I'll do this and we'll go with a campaign that does that.

4:17In practice, between waiting for those signals to come in, to using whatever tools we had available to process those, to then doing whatever the prep would be for the next mix that we would go to respond against that. But those are cycles that were really different. So I would say cycle time is the biggest change. But even that being said, in CPG, it's not like you can learn something new and have a new product evolution on the shelf tomorrow. There's a whole supply chain. There's a lot of steps in between. So how do you deal with that job position? From a product standpoint. I think from a creative media investment.

4:48What's working, what isn't. Absolutely. I think about the stuff that you guys do, being able to understand what the trend is and how to react to it. Nowadays, all of that is so much more democratized and happening in real time. Yeah, and changes so much more quickly, right? It's a huge change. Yeah, I mean, you think about what AI is obviously doing for business. I think one thing it's not talked about enough is what it's doing to the consumer, especially the younger consumer who's being born to a world where no longer is there a gap between their imagination and what's possible, whether it's something that you want to create visually or something you want to write or whatever it may be.

5:22And it also is changing, in my opinion, what it's going to take to really future-proof in this new world. So what skill sets do you think are most valuable moving forward at a place like Unilever, let's say, to allow somebody to really optimize their potential? Look, I made the same reference to when I first graduated school that we were just talking about. And if I think about it today, it's such an amazing time to come into marketing. Yeah. Scary, too. Yeah, it's intense. It's actually a scary time to be in marketing, probably more so than it is to come into marketing. It's disrupted, but it's disrupted by all the good.

5:53It's disrupted because we were used to a certain way of working. Yeah. But in practice, just as you're saying, we can now ideate concept and come up with things so much faster than we used to before. You can then illustrate and have, you can really visualize it the way that you couldn't before. You can then share and collaborate with people in ways that you couldn't before. And then we can bring things into market and understand how they're performing at a rate that we couldn't before. So all of that is just so much more rewarding. And for me, I used to think of, you used to gear up, prepare to go to war once a year.

6:25You know, the shelf set is getting landed. And then you kind of know within the first six, seven weeks, the first hundred days, whether you got something. Right. And then it's either going to be a great year or it's a slog. And while you get to do it again the next, and that would fill me with all kinds of agita. Because you're using a valuable shelf space for a product that's not moving off the shelf. Yeah, that happens. The packaging's wrong. Or the opposite, right? Or you have a winner and you know you've got several months before the competition and we compete against the best in the world too, you know?

6:54Yeah, you do. Before they have a chance to come in and do something different also, right? So I think you're right. I guess you can look at it one of two ways, right? For me, I sleep easy at night knowing I've got an awesome team. We've got absolutely have some of the best marketers in the world at the firm. And we have fantastic measurement data work that allows us, we think, to be able to optimize. You know, I don't know about the speed of culture. Right. But, you know, at speed and hopefully at the speed of culture. Yeah. And that's the desire. And that helps me sleep at night because I know if something isn't working right today, you can learn from that and you can make the thing better in a way that you couldn't make things better for a long time before.

7:31Yeah. I don't have to live with that anymore. I can do something about it. So I find that really empowering. Now, the opposite side of it, to your point, is until you crack it, that iterative cycle of doing it over and over again until we land something that's meaningful. But I think more and more we're getting more insightful about what we need to pay attention to and distinguishing signal from noise so that we can be productive. Because I see it all the time that we're putting, to your point, you know, comms into market and understanding how to make them stronger. But not just that. I mean, we get signal now off of response to communication that's really helpful for us to understand more insights into what's really working with our packaging.

8:04Just the difference, for example, between, you know, we see sometimes people offtake of product off a physical shelf versus what's working in a listing online. and what it is that we're featuring there versus what we got on the pack. Super interesting. Because those kinds of signals that you have now that you can play with it, we never had anything like that. Right, I mean, just manifesting a physical retail environment online. I mean, I know there's some, which is also people normally grab right at checkout, where that's not really the same thing, where they're much more intentional when someone goes online in terms of what they're looking for.

8:34So then passing by something. So I imagine all those things are different now in terms of how you look at where you're focusing, where the opportunities are. different packaging sizes, things like that. Absolutely. And a large part of what we do is try to earn those secondary placements that you're talking about in a physical environment because those things are really sort of massive in terms of bringing in an additional impulse shop and driving additional mental awareness of the things that we're bringing into the market. And so we think about all of that. Yeah. So as we spoke earlier, so I know you don't do direct to consumer for the most part, yet having your own first party data right now arguably is more valuable than ever before, right?

9:10And you're a bit, because AI can unlock so much more without the needs of tons of analysts, and obviously it can do a ton for your targeting, et cetera. So when you say data is incredibly important, how does Unilever get its hands around data if you're often not selling to the consumer direct? Well, we try to make sure that we're capturing the right signals at every interaction point that we do have with the consumer, right? So it's really important for us to have the right tagging, pixeling in place that we're really - With your ads and other messaging. Sorry, yes. Anywhere, but not just, right?

9:42If we're doing an activation IRL, making sure that we're capturing signal there and understanding, getting feedback from the shopper in that instance, anywhere is a source today. Interesting. If you're thinking about it and being proactive in that way. And you're right, the 1P asset is a massive asset. Depending on our categories, we have some that are really high engagement where people are very open to sharing data. Right, sign for a newsletter or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like people, I worked on Hellman's for a long time. People love recipes. They will gladly give you consent for data for recipes.

10:13It's a different kind of challenge when you're operating in categories that are lower engagement or that traditionally have been. And it really becomes the job of the marketer to understand how we're creating value that should earn that kind of consent so that we can keep building on that, right? You know, I'd also say our publishers and platform partners are sitting on mountains of data, too. And it's important that we operate intelligently to understand how to stitch those things together so that we can make the best decisions. Yeah. One company that's sitting on a ton of first-party data is Walmart.

10:43And we just spoke to their retail media group and Ryan who runs that. He was here for an interview just before you. And we were talking about - I just spent the morning with him. Oh, there you go. There you go. So world's colliding. But obviously, companies like Walmart has such tremendous first-party data because they're obviously the front end for companies like yours. And now what they're doing, smartly so, is they're unlocking that first-party data to allow brands like yours to reach consumers not only just in-store, but really throughout everywhere that they interact with any type of content, including television.

11:15How important is retail media in a data-driven approach to be able to drive your business, since they are so important to the overall funnel? Our mantra is we want to be social first. Yeah. We really want to connect with our shoppers through the communities that they're in, in ways that are relevant, so that we can be sort of the most desirable to them and truly reach them authentically. The critical thing with the data is that it allows us, as I was saying before, to stitch together the journey so that we're then rewarding their interaction with us with the right next message to them along the path.

11:50Yeah. So that we're trying to get them through to closing, helping find exactly what they need. Sure. So they can close out and convert as soon as possible. So as you were just referring, the team at Walmart and lots of these retail media partners at this point are really beginning to harness that for power. And it's a real great tool for us as marketers to be able to drive people all the way down the journey. And I think you mentioned the work that Ryan's doing. I think his team at this point, they are a full media shop. Right. Isn't that fascinating? Because they used to be the advertiser and now they're the platform competing with traditional media platforms.

12:23Right. And they're a real partner. And I think you've got to recognize they're bringing now not just a data product, but also more and more opportunities to interact. A real canvas wherein we can reach their shopper across physical and sort of digital environment. And I'm really intrigued with their acquisition of Vizio. I'm curious what that's going to imply. Yeah, we discussed that as well. There's a ton of opportunity for them. I'm surprised that companies like Netflix and others didn't do the same thing. because if you think about it, the last mile is where you really control the power in the consumer.

12:56You can put whatever you want on the remote control and on the interface, et cetera. And TVs, these companies that produce the components of television, it's a very low margin business. The power of the margins in the data and the data powers content that runs through the TV. And I think that's why the acquisition was so brilliant because now they're having a device in someone's home where the person is that's making the buying decisions on what type of mayonnaise they're gonna buy. So it really does close the entire loop. I think as a marketer, it's exciting between what a Walmart team is doing.

13:27You see what's happening at Amazon, at Roundel, what's really across the gamut. You have work that's happening and there's a race to the top amongst these guys to truly earn that. And we try to nurture that. So from our approach to this is always that retail media is media. And we hold the retail media partners to be media and to deliver our KPIs. And in doing so, what we find is that they're continually bringing more sophisticated ad product and that it works harder. So I think it's exciting because to your point, it opens up a whole avenue for closing that journey with the shopper and converting the shopper that wasn't there just a few years ago.

14:03It's so interesting because 10 years ago, we would have been talking about a whole different slew of companies that were vital to a company like yours to reach the consumer, whether it be in the past Viacom or News Corp or traditional publishers. and now we're talking about Walmart, we're talking about Amazon. Chase rolled out a media network because they have first-party data on how people spend money. PayPal did as well. So it's like there's a whole new realm of companies that traditionally were more like advertisers, but since they have first-party data, they can power media platforms. Maybe not to the extent Walmart can because your product's actually on their shelves, but it's interesting to see how this is evolving.

14:39I'm just wondering where you think it's all headed. I think Paramount, you just referenced Disney, Warner. They all have incredible high quality. But you can always spend money in so many places, right? They do, but I think - I'm saying you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, one can. But I think the point that I would make is I tend to think of these, at a certain point, it's all media and we're making the decision on how it works the hardest. Yeah, of course. I think there's been a ton of really interesting collaboration between those ideas. And so, for example, we partnered just last year on doing several, we say like sort of three-way deals with Paramount and Walmart, wherein we're leveraging sort of Walmart data to power reaching shoppers, our shoppers, we know, based on the thing, in really high-quality inventory on Paramount and Live Sports.

15:24Because they have the content. Exactly, right? Right. And so I think it's around finding what the right value is. Like I said, the key thing for us is how do we use data to then interconnect these things so that we can be reaching people where they are in moments of culture that matter to them in ways that are relevant? And then we use the data to make sure that we're bringing them through. And the next time we talk to them, we're bringing them the right message. We'll be right back with the Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors. So one place that's relevant content is coming out every single day, especially for Gen Z, who is staring at their phone all day, is the creators, right?

15:55They're staring at their phone, they're the iPhone generation. And when they're looking at their phone, it's normally from content from other people. And I'm just wondering what your take is on creators, how important they are as part of the overall planning cycle and what are some of the ways that you're leveraging that? Oh man, I mean, they're more and more important. I think you got to think of them two ways, both highly relevant, you know, as I started out. Again, for us, the whole game is how can we drive more desirability against our products at scale in a way that can have a meaningful business impact for us.

16:25And today, the creator brings both massive reach and they are increasingly arbiters of desire. So true. And relevance in a world where people are more and more cynical about any kind of messaging that they're receiving. Well put. And the more relevant, the more especially contextually relevant someone is that's delivering them a message if they have a voice or sort of known use case for this kind of a benefit. And then they're the ones that are communicating that to you. That has a different impact. And so it's of huge importance. And our creator and influencer practice over the past few years has been one of the things that we've been really building up.

17:02I need to continue to do so. Do you find that hard to scale just because you're dealing with people versus platforms? There's different models for doing so. I think that, you know, they're humans. Yeah. And so there's different sort of considerations that one has to have because you're really developing a partnership with a creator over time. Yeah, and you're putting your brand out there with them. It's not a spot and a dot, right? That's what I say when they're humans, right? They're real people. And it's also different because the best creative work comes when you really understand that creator, their voice, how they're delivering.

17:31If you want this to work, you want it to come across authentically from them or why are you doing it? Yeah. And so people need to receive that and feel that it's really coming in their voice and that they believe it. Yeah. You know, you got to choose the guys and gals that you work with the right way. So ideally, you're finding creators who really do find value in your work. And we're lucky we have great products, so that's not hard. Yeah. So another area I know that you can really drive a lot of engagement through is through sports. When we talk about television, it's arguably the last like kind of fashion of live entertainment at scale, right?

18:00We just had Tim Ellis here earlier this morning, the CMO of the NFL, talking about all the things they're doing. I was not with him all morning. Okay, there you go. I was like, oh, you clone yourself. But obviously it's a big part of your go-to-market strategy and your sponsorships like the 2026 FIFA World Cup. So talking about sports and how it plays a role in overall how you activate. I think sports is culture. Yeah, it is. It's massive, right? As you were just saying, today it's harder and harder to find sort of those monoculture things that really sort of transcend because of the social age and the way that we spend our time and time shifting.

18:34We're all in our own bubbles. There's only so many things that interconnect those. And it's like, you know, it's, I think you were referencing it, something crazy. It's like 96 of the top 100 broadcasts are sports. And then a few others, like the Thanksgiving Day Parade. Right. Maybe the Grammys or Oscars or something. Exactly, right. Those are the few moments that connect. And thanks to sort of the digital age, it's not just the event itself. It's everything that surrounds it, right, right? I think it's kind of their own digital product, you know, media channels themselves these days. Everything has become sort of an entree into culture.

19:08And we see fans now who don't watch the game. You know, they're just doing it for the fantasy side of it. Highlights. Tons and tons of them who only watch highlights don't watch the games, right? Video games, gambling, fantasy sports. Gambling, fantasy sports, the Taylor Swift of it all, people who are tuning in just for halftime shows because that's going to become part of the discourse. You need to have seen it. So it's a whole different environment. And not to mention this, the massive turnout that you also have physical. It's like one of the rare instances where you can have sort of efficiently reach an audience in person and give them an experience.

19:37And it's a global language. Like I was just in Saudi Arabia for speaking about the book. And in two of the executives' homes, because they invited me to their homes, there's Kobe Bryant posters in their homes. It just shows like it is a global phenomenon. And especially American athletes increasingly in Europe, FIFA and UEFA, like these athletes really command global reach. That's right. Yeah. And so we have been participating in the big game for a few years now with Dove and with our Hellman's brand. And our single biggest partnership that we have is the partnership for the 26 World Cup. We did the Women's World Cup in 23, which is wonderful.

20:12We'll have the Women's Cup again in 27, but we are all focused right now on preparing for just a massive opportunity. You know, it's something like every one of these games is like a Super Bowl for a market in the world. Of course. and this is going to be the biggest sporting event in living history, right? So it's really exciting. I think in general, sports and these sort of spectator cultural moments just create really sort of unique opportunities for us to show the value of our products in ways that are really special. And if we can deliver them in ways that are authentic, they can be meaningful.

20:44I'll give you an example. So we were activating in New Orleans around the big game this year and had the opportunity to really activate the Dove brand, which we activate in sports with Dove. We were really consistent with our message to drive self-esteem that we've had for more than 20 years now. Great campaign. A huge element of that in the past few years, which we've celebrated in the beginning of the past few years, is research that we did together with Nike, actually, to get a bit more understanding of this question of why we see girls dropping out of sports. Specifically, I think it's, as they move into their teen years, a much higher rate than boys.

21:19And boys, I think the participation rates are much closer until that window. And the research shows you that the leading cause of that is body confidence. And so much of that can just be addressed with the way that coaches talk to their players. And so we've developed this body confident curriculum and we've been utilizing our activation around these events as a way of raising awareness of that. And it's really meaningful. One of the audiences that we find has had the biggest connection to this stuff is girl dads. And a lot of those girl dads are coaches, right? So we feel like if we really do reach them, you know, this is something that's meaningful and different to them, according to this.

21:53That's the kind of thing where we can have a positive and hopefully on this and hopefully encourage and keep. Yeah. I'm one of them. I'm behind this. Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. That's the whole mission. And so we look very much to try to make sure that we're continuing to build that over time in ways that are meaningful. We just signed our first kit sponsorship. So we're official sponsors of Gotham FC, which is in our backyard in New Jersey. They are the NWSL team for the New Jersey area. And they had a mission around keeping girls in the game. Keeper in the game is their mission. And we were like, my God, our mission is about keep her confident.

22:24This is incredible. Right, perfect fit. So you couldn't find a better fit that way. And so in general, we think these events create just an awesome canvas for us to deliver our brand stories in ways that are meaningful, in categories and in spots where you build a much deeper connection and understanding of what a brand can stand for and how you can relate to it. Awesome. So shifting gears, we wrap up here. I'm just curious, like we've spoken about such a wide panoply of topics today from data to retail, the sports, the culture, et cetera. And that's rare in these interviews where often they go down sort of a unique rabbit hole of whatever they're focused on, which probably is reflective, I would imagine, of your role at Unilever and that you wear many hats.

23:01Tell me about what is a week in the life like for you? Where do you spend your time? Where do you like to spend your time and why? That's a great question. I really try to focus and I'm trying to bridge two worlds. Yeah. The mantra is we want to be three steps ahead and be as externally oriented as possible so that we continue to drive our capabilities and stay at the forefront in terms of understanding how we can be using, whether it's technology or the right practice, so that we can be more efficient. We want to be the most outcome-oriented advertiser in the industry. That's like the mantra I try to push to my team at all times.

23:36And so that requires us to both be really external and thinking about what's going on outside and at the same time, really focused on driving impacted scale internally. And having your finger on the pulse of the data and make sure the impact is being driven, right? But it's less me having my finger on the pulse, and I do do that because I'm - Clearly. Like really obsessive about this stuff. But for me, it's more making sure that we at scale are implementing and establishing the right practice so that my organization is consistently doing it, that's when it becomes a real competitive advantage for us.

24:08And we've seen that pay off for us, especially recently with a lot of return as we've been shifting into social groups. Yeah, for sure. So obviously, I'm sure a big part of your role is also building a team, managing team, finding great talent. What is true amongst people who turn out to be real stars, rising stars at a company like Unilever? What attributes they normally possess? And maybe some advice for some of our younger listeners in areas they should focus on? Man, I always say, forgive a damn. Yeah. Like this is my number one. Love that. Within Unilever. So many people don't give a damn.

24:37Yeah. Unfortunately. At all stages. I'm blessed because I've really, you know, I've recruited for that. And this is like the emphasis for me. If you talk to anybody on my team, these are people that are, you know, they care. And this is one of the attributes from overall Unilever standpoint, we're looking to really highlight is sort of the importance of caring deeply and putting that in. And so the advice I always give to folks, because it's a lot easier to care deeply when the work that you do feels meaningful and when the work that you do isn't something that you feel passionate about. And so that's really what I look for is, do I believe that this person cares about this and would find meaningful this outcome?

25:17Like a lot of this stuff is data analytics, rigor, understanding an audience. What is the right ad tech I should be using to identify the trend or to be making this thing better. It can feel like a lot of inside baseball and people use the term inside baseball, but inside baseball is like fascinating to people that really care about baseball, right? So ultimately like this was the point I'm trying to make, you know, I think the more that you find whatever you're doing fun or interesting, the better you are as a partner to other people, the more time that you'll want to spend, you know, if it's the thing that you would be doing anyway, you're going to be better at it.

25:48And what are some of the ways going back to AI? like do you think it's going to play a role in the development of future talent? Like 20 years from now, as I continue this podcast 20 years from now, I'm in gray walking in here. I'm already a little gray interviewing people and the new stars 20 years from now will have used AI to power themselves. In what ways do you think they will have done it? I think of two ways. I think the first is I can think of, and I know the zeitgeist right now is agentic AI. But in principle, I think there's really something to it in that at almost every stage, you can find ways to leverage AI to bring either more rigor or to bring more speed into something that you would have been doing.

26:26A force multiplier. Right? And so because of that, I do think it's the kind of thing that has a major impact and that we need to think of it from an end-to-end standpoint in terms of where it can help. I was talking about a second ago around how I want to make sure that we're implementing practice across the organization. So it really has impact. And I think AI is one of those things that can really help us to do that because I find it potentially really empowering. So many things in the past have been the purview of subject matter experts or had major barriers to entry to people being able to do them.

26:56And I think if we do it right, it can be a huge sort of unlocking moment where people can take on different kinds of work. You can democratize a lot of things, yeah. Yeah, and it really becomes about the power of your thinking and how much you care. It's well put. So to wrap up here, is there a saying or mantra that you think guides your professional journey to date or personal? Right now, I've been thinking a lot. I have a dear friend we work with at WPP named Janet Levine, who works in strategy there. She wrote this article like a year and a half ago that really struck me. And her big headline was, Build Worlds, Don't Chase Moments.

27:30And I haven't stopped thinking about it since. Why is that? Because I think we lose so much by not being proactive and by not taking the moment to step back and think about what it is that we want to build. Yeah. And then - We're in the grind of every day. Yeah, we're active, right? You end up in the grind when you don't know what it was that you wanted to do. It's urgent versus important. Like a lot of people focus on what's urgent versus what's important. What you're talking about is what's important. Right. Once you figure out what's important, then you're prepared for all those things that are going to come at you later.

27:58And it's something I have been trying more and more in my life and with my team to think about how do we take those moments to take a beat and think about what is the world that I want to build for my team, for myself, for my brand. And so. Yeah. It's so easy to be reactive and the fire alarms of the day. but if you're only doing that, you're never really moving yourself forward and getting ultimately where you want to be. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been a fantastic discussion, as I knew it would. I know you're really busy here at the conference, but I really appreciate you taking the time to speak this today.

28:25Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. On behalf of Susan and every team, thanks again to Rio Yokoi, the Chief Media and Marketing Capabilities Officer for North America at Unilever, for joining us today live at the Possible Conference of Miami. Be sure to subscribe right and view the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, see you soon.

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