VC V2.0: General Catalyst’s playbook for taking startup brands to the next level with Arielle Gross Samuels

0:00You always have to be asking what's not there. You always have to sit on the edge of your seat, not rest on your laurels. And always try to stay as sharp and educated as possible because this is such a rapidly evolving situation. To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever-increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

0:37Up today on the Speed of Culture podcast, we're here live in New York and we're thrilled to welcome Ariel Gross-Samuels, the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at General Catalyst, a venture capital firm that partners with transformational companies shaping the future of industries like AI, healthcare, and fintech. Ariel, so great to see you today. Thanks so much for having me, Matt. Absolutely. So what got you into the world of venture capital? So I am a builder at my core. I'm an engineer by training. I worked in technology for a for nearly a decade, and then did a stint in private equity.

1:06So when I got the call from General Catalyst, it felt like this amazing opportunity to blend finance, marketing, engineering, technology, all in one, and to support founders pursuing their visions, which I was so excited about. So what were you doing at the time when you got the call from General Catalyst? I was running marketing at Blackstone. Okay. So obviously, Blackstone, a very prestigious private equity firm, one of the largest in the world. Yeah. What gave you the conviction? I'm sure you were like on the fast track there. What gives you the conviction to make that jump and go somewhere else?

1:35It was really getting back to my roots in tech and the opportunity to build in the white space, which is something that's been true in my entire career, is coming to a place like General Catalyst, which we now call ourselves a global investment and transformation company. We've been around for 25 years, 32 billion of assets under management. So by all sort of measures, we're this very established, successful firm. And yet we're at this inflection point as a company where we're expanding the aperture of our business. We're expanding the client base of who we partner with. I thought, what an interesting time to jump on this rocket ship and see what I can build across marketing and communication.

2:10So everything from brand and creative, our events and experiential, MarTech and operations, and the whole communications remit. So it's been a really, really important opportunity and something that I've been super energized by. So you're obviously leading the charge of the brand of General Catalyst. Who is your target audience? Who do you want to know about General Catalyst? and what do you want them to know about the brand? So a few key audiences for us. First, our prospective entrepreneurs and founders, particularly in the US, Europe, and India. So this is anyone with a good idea. We want them to think of general catalysts first and then think about fundraising, really when it's still an idea.

2:47Wow. So the minute they have an idea, even before they start fundraising, before they bring it to life and to market, we want them to think about GC as the person or the firm that they want to call. Second, I would say, is sort of the business, financial, and political elite circles. These are organizations and leaders that are going to influence our brand and reputation and market. I want them to know who we are and what we stand for, which to get to your second question, we care about a few things. One is being the global authority on transformation and particularly within that applied AI and global resilience.

3:16So applied AI is really our focus on how do you bring the LLMs, the tools, the products, but integrate them into businesses at their core. I can talk more about that for sure. And then global resilience is really this idea that countries, particularly through the lens of geopolitical tectonic shifts, COVID, all of these supply chain disruptors are realizing that they need to modernize their critical industries across defense, health care, industrials. And so we have over 800 portfolio companies that can help with both. And so that's the real messaging that we want to convey is broader transformation around apply the AI and global resilience.

3:51Yeah, and especially in the sea of the entrepreneur, they want to globalize. They want to take advantage of global opportunities. And obviously, every entrepreneur is thinking right now, what is my AI story? How do I apply to my existing business, et cetera? Let's unpack that because obviously, I obviously spend a lot of time in AI as a venture funded software CEO myself and a company that's really focused on AI. I know that different companies are at different stages. And what using AI is, deploying AI, means different things at different companies. How does General Catalyst look at the state of AI today and how it's being adopted maybe across both your portfolio, but then more broadly as maybe the customer you serve?

4:30It's such an exciting opportunity and it's pretty amazing the vantage point that we have just having 800 plus portfolio companies. And also we've invested billions of dollars over the last eight years in AI. So I'd answer this in a few is one is on the core sort of intelligence track. I think that's pillar one. What do we see as the future of intelligence when you think about LLMs focused on humanity and human-made decisions, data privacy? So we've invested in companies like Mistral and Anthropics, some of these leading out. The LLS, that's at the foundational level. Exactly. Yeah. So there's sort of that lens.

5:01And you're seeing it also at the industry sector specificity where you bring an LLM, let's say, into biology with Montessay or into physics and chemistry with Physics X. So interesting cuts of that. The second is the infrastructure layer. What needs to be true, both data centers and servers, but also I call it sort of the business scaffolding. How can businesses ingest AI? And this gets really interesting. We have a model called AI enabled roll ups. And the thinking here is that we can expand margins on legacy businesses, not necessarily software, but industries like legal, HOA management, accounting, legacy businesses.

5:38Workflow automation. 100 % we have companies like Glean. So it's really interesting. How do you integrate AI into the guts of those businesses and help them really rethink the way their work operates and then help them scale that solution through M &A, which is where this gets into the AI-enabled roll-up. Sure. And then the third is really workforce transformation. Both the work itself is going to change. The workforce around it is going to change. What does it mean to have an agentic workforce? What does it mean to have a company worth$10 billion with five humans? How is that structured? And what is that sort of belief around AI native companies going forward in the same way that people bet on SaaS and other key digital trends?

6:18Well, I have to unpack that. I mean, first and foremost, your firm's role as this AI enabler, and obviously can take many different forms, both for tech-specific companies, tech native companies, if you will, or like you said, going into other companies where you can use the power of AI to make them more efficient. But in either situation, your firm needs to be able to employ people and work with experts that really know what they're doing in AI. And one thing I've seen is those people are far and far in between. There's a lot of people that will speak buzzwords and throw this jargon around, but there's very few people that are actually doing the work, hands on keyboard, know how to build, know how to deploy it.

6:54Large companies are so scared. They're writing huge checks. And a lot of times they're being told it takes six months and$60 million when the reality should take six days and$60 ,000, but they don't know the difference, right? So I think there's a lack of knowledge everywhere. But how do you use your firm, attract the right people that can help deliver that promise? Well, you know, it's such an important question. And it's interesting because, so you're thinking about this through the lens of talent, how to assess talent, both for gaps in terms of what functionally needs to be true to build out these solutions, but also even going earlier than that, how do you train this in school?

7:28What needs to be true in terms of prompt engineering classes? What about AI accreditation? I was just at an event last week focused on AI in the boardroom. What does it mean to have governance and board directors that are sort of AI enabled and how they think about leveraging all kinds of company data to make better business? If you want to say, there'll be a bot that already a member. Yeah. So I would say, I mean, we have an incredible executive talent team that recruits from all around the world. We're lucky in that we had this massive network of not just founders and entrepreneurs, but also business leaders, partners across our portfolio, companies, even policymakers.

8:03So we can sort of draw from a broad pool of candidates. But it is an important question, especially because the target keeps moving. So even you might think you know where the puck is going, but then that shifts. It's quicker than what we've ever seen before. Exactly. The velocity is just sort of paralleled. And so it creates a really interesting dynamic. I think what it teaches all of us, and particularly thinking about the marketers who are listening in today, you always have to be asking what's not there. You always have to sit on the edge of your seat and not rest on your laurels. And always try to stay as sharp and educated as possible because this is such a rapidly evolving situation.

8:40But from an operational perspective, the challenge is in that is that you don't want to be reinventing your company or your strategy every single day. Correct. So you really need to rethink in terms of like what the goalpost is and where you think the world's going to go in. And you have to have some conviction because you're right. It's like you could come up with a business model today and then tomorrow could be rendered obsolete. And the question there is, well, maybe your business model wasn't really forthcoming enough. Well, and I think you're also touching on agility, which is to be successful, particularly in 2025, you have to be able to rapidly pivot and ingest new data points to make better decisions.

9:13I think DeepSeq was such an interesting example of value. It came out of nowhere. All of a sudden, people were rethinking everything from the valuation of LLNs to how can they leverage this data? So much on our ambition, possibly over pivoting, but even just the idea that the cost curve on AI is going to asymptotically approach zero. So in the same way that we think about Internet, I mean, it's literally going to get cheaper and cheaper as a currency. And so do all boats rise as a result of that? Is there increased demand generation or does that really throw a wrench into people's evaluations of these companies?

9:42I think that's an interesting debate playing out. But regardless, it's an exciting space to be in. And I think what a good time to be alive and to be building. Oh, yeah. I mean, it calls into question where the value is going to be created because you have the infrastructure, the chips right at the bottom. Then you have the foundational models, which we spoke of. Then you have data, right? And you've already seen companies leverage their data, not AI companies, companies like Reddit are selling their data, etc. And then you have the application layer, which some people write off as just, oh, it's a wrapper on an existing model.

10:10But the reality is, I would argue your ability to package things, go to market, capture customer mindshare and drive a business has always been a really hard thing to do. And in tech, it's never necessarily been the best product wins. In some ways, it's who goes to the market. Yes. What are your thoughts on where the value is being created in AI? Well, you know, it's interesting. I think ultimately we're still going to see this trend where it's hyper customization for consumers. I think the idea that particularly marketers and brand builders can spray and pray and just hope that what they build and throw over the fence is going to land is we're past those days.

10:41Right now, because of the access to data and because of both algorithms and AI, particularly on the generative front, you can get super targeted and clear on who you're actually going after, what they care about demographically, psychographically, what needs to be true for them to resonate with your business, your product, etc. And so I do think there's a really interesting inflection point for us in this industry to rethink even how we approach people so that they feel like they're getting value from every ad they see, from every piece of content they see, rather than something that they want to skip past.

11:10Absolutely. So you mentioned earlier pivot and being able to kind of reinvent yourself. Our company, Susie, has 300 employees. It's a lot harder to pivot now than when it was only 25 employees. So what have you seen throughout the portfolio companies you work with and the entrepreneurs that you partner with that has been coming across companies that have been able to effectively, I guess, change to the macro to take advantage and seize the moment? That's such a great question. I would go back to even my days at Facebook before it was called meta and even the way in which leaders would put a stake in the ground around trends that they believe with high conviction were true.

11:49This happened at Facebook, at Blackstone, at certainly at General Catalyst and across our companies. I'd say a few things are true, right? One is pattern recognition. So you have to be able to ingest signal and data from different sources. And in our world, because we are inundated with stimuli, it's almost like how do you parse the signal from guys, but really making sense of what is the data that tells us one way or the other where trends are going, what themes are going to play out. Does this align, in our case, to investment theories that we actually do believe in and have high conviction?

12:17And that's where we have a team of world-class investors writing checks towards founders that they believe in. So there's that. Second, it still comes down to people. And so ultimately, in our business, you're backing a founder, investing in a human. And certainly as marketers, we think the same way. It's about the person on the other side, even business to business marketing, which I've now been playing in for a decade plus, it's still people on the other side of that. Couldn't admit more. And so you still have to care about how you're... That's why I think it matters, by the way, as well. A lot of people in SaaS, I think, made the mistake of just looking at the bottom of the funnel and performance, performance.

12:50But the person buys software the same way that mom buys detergent at Walmart, they buy from the brands they trust. And if you're building enough awareness and trust versus a company that they've never heard of before, they're going to want to choose, you know, a company they've heard of before. That's why it's grand matters. It doesn't pay off right away, but over time, it does become a defensible moat. A hundred percent, I was going to say the same word moat. And B to B. And you want that, you need that cushion, but also, again, you can't rest on your laurel. So your trust can also be lost so quickly.

13:18And so making sure that you're staying evergreen, consistent with your values, getting in front of consumers in an enduring and sustainable way, I think is so important. And of course, the leaders of the businesses matter. And so even as you think about the personalization of companies and how sort of these corporate ambassadors are representing, that matters. That's not going to change, especially just in given the velocity of now social media and how even Gen Zers have higher bars, I think, for how they make decisions with their wallets. We'll be right back with The Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors.

13:48So let's talk about some of the copies that General Cows has on us to end and talk about maybe some of the lessons we can extract. So who would really think the three most prominent copies? If you're sitting at a dinner party and you're like, tell me the general catalyst. Obviously, you're giving them proof points. Who are some of those companies that come to mind? Well, I mean, you've got some of our incredible success companies. Okay, so Airbnb and Instacart and Strike, you know, so all these, some of these really successful companies. But then you've got, you know, I was sort of mentioning this AI-enabled roll-up strategy.

14:16I mean, you've got companies, I'll take Crescendo is a good one. This is a call center business where we're automating contact centers. And you think, okay, most of us, we've gotten on a call with an agent. It's painful. Yeah. Cable company, utility company. You're pulling at, you're hitting a zero a million times to try to talk to somebody. Right. Yeah. How do you make that a much smarter, faster, polite experience using AI and productizing that and focusing on the outcome of that scenario and not just the inputs? And so that's where this business crescendo is really revitalizing the entire thinking around call centers, but also acquiring companies like Partner Hero almost recently to scale their solutions broadly.

14:57So even something that historically has created consumer pain and has, by the way, very little to do with Striper and Instacart, et cetera, is still, I think, super interesting part of our business. I'd also mention our General Catalyst Institute. Again, when you think about going from a venture capital firm to a global investment and transformation company, what does that mean? It means that we're doing incredible bets beyond venture check writing. And so this institute is our policy arm. It's how do we bridge federal government with startups? How do we demystify on both sides? It's how do we help inform AI regulation, which we know is coming and is actively being.

15:30Do you think it's coming? We do. Especially with this administration, it seems so wild west. I think it's going to be light. Yeah. But I think a light framework would be helpful. And I think we saw what happened with the internet, with social. I mean, you ultimately need a little bit of guidance. It's not totally chaotic. I mean, the good news is, love them or hate them, but David Sachs was an entrepreneur and ran a company and understands AI. Totally. And most people that have been in the White House that have been in these positions in the past, just are completely disconnected from technology.

15:58And I think it's actually a good thing. Yeah, I think I'm bullish on what's to come on the front. I do think that merging on those fronts is going to be super important for us, particularly as we want to actually help entrepreneurs and founders build enduring businesses that can only happen with a strong partnership between the public and the private sector. So the call center instance is obviously interesting for a lot of reasons. We've heard Karna say that they were able to essentially automate their call center. And now they're saying they're apparently they're recreating Salesforce and all these SaaS platforms as well because they know how to build so quickly.

16:30And we'll see if that becomes the case. But in the case of the call center, it did cost a lot of jobs. And I'm sure that your company that's coming in is helping companies be more efficient, which ultimately does mean job loss. And it's going to happen everywhere, right? It's going to happen every corner. What do you think is going to happen with the job loss and resulting efficiency? What do those people do? What should they learn? How do they reskill? It's such an important question. And you think about this even on a country by country basis. A lot of blue collar jobs were offshored to, let's say, the Philippines.

17:00Yeah, especially. Coastal Resort. You're re-entering the productivity, but not the jobs. So what do you I think governments have to take reskilling and upskilling really seriously. I think there has to be training programs. ideally you're redistributing talent towards problems that can be solved assuming that still worth it as a skill set but it's a point that i don't think enough of us are talking about because it's such an important implication economically yeah for countries and for i mean for all of us when you think about just what is the nature of industry in 10 years with legal with accounting even with marketing and brand building or what does this all look like i mean it's you can either say it's unfathomable or you can just try to imagine it and build accordingly Yeah, after I get off stage where I speak around AI, all around the world, people come up to me and they say, what does this mean for my son or daughter?

17:47What should they learn? What should they be focused on? And it is just such a different world. I mean, if you think about the education complex in America, it's largely based upon memorizing information and regurgitating it. So if you were a master at memorization and regurgitation, you would be able to, if you look back at your K-12 or even higher ed, you'd be able to do pretty well. You'd ace every test. But now the notion of retaining knowledge is almost commoditized. I completely agree. And so I think I observed a few things. One is there seems to be a self-selected disparity between sort of Luddites and early adopters.

18:28Yes. And that does seem to be psychological. psychological. I still hear a lot of fear around AI adoption, but then I see other people who are running toward that. So I think that's a decision we all have to make when we get out of bed in the morning. Is are we going to be scared? I think it's a choice, right? I agree with you. So I think there's that. On the education front, I completely agree there's going to have to be reform. You know, I remember some of my engineering classes in college, I would say to our professor, these exams and these quizzes are so hard. I've never seen these questions before.

18:55Like, why do you make it so He said, that's real life. You never see the same problem twice. We're teaching you the theorems, we're teaching you the logic and the approach to problem solve, but then it's up to you to apply yourself. Exactly. But like, that's hard. How do you teach that? How do you scale that? How do you enforce that? What do you do with adults if they don't have that? I mean, it's such an interesting... It's just, I mean, my take on it is when you think about problem solving, creativity, critical thinking, that's what's going to matter more. And I think success in your career is much more about understanding and identifying the problems that need to be solved versus how to solve the problem.

19:33Because if you think about how to solve the problem is a lot of what a knowledge comes in. And ultimately, that's where AI, I think, is going to do a lot of the work. But AI doesn't know what problem needs to be solved. And I think if you, that's leveling up. Yeah. It's that orchestration, sort of viewing yourself as the train conductor, looking around the curve. I agree with that. I also still think, especially in our industry, taste, understanding of, and need, the creativity. a lot of this quote unquote soft skills are still going to be incredibly important. And to your point, how do you use the data, the analytics, the tooling to make better decisions and to inform business strategy versus relying on it to answer them?

20:08And those that say like it's the end of the creative, it's a bad thing, like Canva was already hugely popular before AI became a thing. And it's not like that's people being Picasso with their creative, they're using templates. So we were already looking for ways to be more efficient with creativity before AI got likely adopted. it and now it's just going to accelerate even further. There's also, you know, I had this mentor who would always say, you don't have to be possessive when you're prolific. And I also think that's kind of an interesting mindset. She knows where you can, because of generative I especially, you can just churn out ideas.

20:38You can really test and learn and iterate at the scale that hasn't been seen before. And so that allows you to think more broadly and almost bigger picture about the future. Yeah. A lot of large companies, even tech companies are really struggling with this transformation. One thing I found that Susie is that when AI first became widely accessible, I pushed it to my engineering team and I wasn't getting a lot back. And what I realized over time is it's not just like another feature build or even shifting from web to mobile. It is about the problem that needs to be solved. It really is the CEO's job to fully understand it and figure out how it's going to drive true inside out transformation.

21:17And in order for the CEO to make the decision where I've learned is I actually need to know everything about it. So I personally spent 80 to 90 % of my time. I've counted so many of my ongoing meetings, not only just knowing about it, I wrote a book about it, but I also builded it. So now I can build almost anything in AI. I'm not a coder, but I've learned how. And now when I go into meetings, I know what's possible. So when it comes to larger builds, it's like, oh, I know you can do this. And if you don't, you should figure it out. And it wasn't until I did that that I felt like things really started to move.

21:49I find that a lot of large companies, the CDO is either like on a golden package and just doesn't want to publicly trade at large companies, doesn't want to risk it, right? Or they don't even know where to start. And because of it, you're going to see history repeat itself where a lot of large companies are going to be like, why didn't we do this? Like you look at the circuit cities of the world of Torres Strait Rastor didn't get on e-commerce and you see that now they're bankrupt. I think the same thing is going to happen with so many companies. And that's exactly why the term we use is applied AI.

22:16Yeah. And we need to apply this operative word because it's exactly that. It's how you even apply it into your business to actually make it sing. It's not going to do itself. Yeah. So your job, obviously, if you do your job well, entrepreneurs are thinking about your firm when they want to raise capital and LPs are thinking about your firm when they want to deploy capital, right? And you're known and continue to be known as a world-class brand. What works in terms of the tactics that you've been deploying to communicate your message to those constituents? So I'm a big believer in highly coordinated Omni channel pushes.

22:51And what that means is when we know we have an announcement to make, rather than something important to say, how can we sort of galvanize the troops across all channels, across all stakeholders on the same day? I'd be highly, like when I break through. And so on the press side, that means, okay, maybe we have an exclusive, but also we know that after that exclusive goes live, we're going to pitch extensively proactively. It means we have a full social amplification plan. It means we're publishing on our website. It means that we are engaging across email with LPs, with founders, with business partners.

23:27It means we're activating our internal employee base and that we're measuring for share of voice for breakthrough for also sentiment of how is this landed so basically you're picking a day you're gonna own because you're picking your spot and it can bolt it onto an event that's the gravy right if you can activate it connect to a conference or another moment where you have sort of that convening power that's fantastic too but i find that what a lot of people get wrong is they sort of dribble things out or it's sporadic or and you don't move the needle and so you have to be you have to reverse engineer it i've never thought about that but so true i I mean, we have so much noise out there.

23:59And if you own a day, even if it's one day, you're getting the message across that day and people are going to see it and hear it everywhere and then they'll get the message. Well, and so I'll give you an example. We launched our new brand platform called Venture Beyond. And the idea, kind of in line with what I'm sharing, going from a venture capital firm to this global investment and transformation company, we needed the brand identity to reintroduce ourselves to the world after 25 years of what do we stand for? And so this brand identity across verbal and visual, this new website, social, the whole sort of reintroduction, we intentionally timed it along with the major fundraising announcement, which is that we were announcing Fund 12, all this new capital was coming in.

24:38And we knew that that news would break through, but then people would come to our website and people would come to our social. So we wanted to be ready at that same point. And so I do think that this is where it's important to sort of look at the world as an editorial calendar and pick your spots here again. Yeah. Awesome. So let's shift gears a little bit as we wrap up, I mean, you obviously shaped me as somebody who was so well-rounded in terms of their knowledge and somebody who commands the discipline that they're in. And you're obviously very passionate about all this, which I know is incredibly important.

25:06What do you do for inspiration and to keep your finger on the pulse of where things are headed, especially in topics like AI, where things are changing so quickly? And more broadly, how do you spend your time in a given league? What does the pie chart of your week look like? That's interesting. So I have this term, playing in traffic. I do like to speak with really interesting people on a diverse slate of people, meaning founders, entrepreneurs, business leaders, anything from Fortune 500 to early stage companies, policymakers, marketers. I like to intentionally have a well-rounded sort of cabinet on any given week.

25:38I do think it's really important to go to other people's events and hear how they frame their thought leadership, their programming intentionally, and sort of ingest that and take stock. Of course, reading the news, I have a number of favorites, which I'm happy to share. How I spend my time, I mean, it depends to some degree on where we are in our sort of cycles of marketing. But I would say 70 to 80 % is focused on the core marketing and comms work. So how do we equip our portfolio companies if they're coming out of stealth, if we're announcing a big fundraise, if we're helping them through maybe an important either liquidity event, a merger and acquisition, some important milestone for them, telegraphing our own brand through our own launches and announcements.

26:18And we've been quite busy on that front. We just recently announced General Catalyst Wealth, which is two and a half billion of assets under management and new wealth management arm for our clients, for example. People hiring, training, continuing to broaden my organization, which I'm super excited about. And that's been giving me a lot of energy. And then I exercise. It's important at the end of the day, 100%. I exercise, I try to get out of nature when I can, but it's a really sort of fast-paced, high-energy environment, and that's what I love about it. When you look back on your career to date, and you're clearly just getting started with everything you're doing, what were some decisions you think you made right along the way, whether it's what you focused on, what a company you've worked at, the people you got to know, they put you in a position you ordered?

27:00I think there's a few things. One is I optimized for breadth over depth. That was intentional. So I thought early on, let me get exposure to different functions, to different facets of the business. I mean, even Deloitte doing engineering, in consulting, working across different sectors from a consulting perspective at Facebook, starting off in products, but working across consumer products on the operation side and then going into business marketing, like really trying to see how different businesses run and how leaders make decisions. So getting that breadth rather than just going deep on any one domain, I thought that would be important to help me connect those dots later on.

27:32I think the second is I did focus on building what wasn't there. And I think that's something that you have so many of us forget is that everything's made up around us. I know. And no one knows anything, right? We're all just sure of a five. We're building. And so how can you go from zero to one? I was constantly writing proposals, even of pilots, whether it was a new project, a new business idea, and just anything. And the worst that can happen is someone says no, at least to be in that mindset of seeing what's not there and then building accordingly and at least pitching accordingly, I think is a really important muscle.

28:03And of course, your reputation is everything. It stays with you. And so acing your day job first, nailing your scope first before you expand and take on other things, being incredibly responsive and trusted as an employee, regardless of a company, I think is incredibly important and not something that you can skip past. Yeah, for sure. I love that. So we often wrap up our podcast passing our guests. If there's a saying or a mantra that has driven their professional journey, I have a feeling you have a couple, but what comes to mind for you? It's something that my mom used to always say to me, which is, if not now, when?

28:36And if not me, who? And that inspired urgency in me, and it inspired me to raise my hand and lean in. That's great. I'm glad that you raised your hand to be on a podcast today as well. I often don't get a ton of ideas leaving a podcast, but I do today. So I want to thank you for that. You obviously have great energy and a ton of ideas, and it really inspired me. So thanks for joining. So much fun. Absolutely. On behalf of Susan and every team, thanks again to Ariel Gross Samuels, the Chief Marketing and Communication Officer at Gemma Catalyst for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review to Speed of Culture Podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

29:06Until next time, see you soon, everyone. Take care.

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