247. Matt Johnson: Jelly Roll’s Weight Loss, Running 842 Miles & Escaping Addiction

9:59Gary Brecka:You know, you covered 840 some miles across the state of Texas. Like go back to the beginning of how, what did that journey look like?

10:07Matt Johnson:yeah and it's been a process for me of of doing that on my own now as an adult right because there's times where i'm living this life and i kind of sit back and i'm like how the hell am i here you know like you know so you know i think i think reflection is is very important you know starting to how how did you get to the military right like like why because that's not a choice that a lot of people make right and you know i was born in a small town um we didn't have stoplights like it was that small the nearest walmart was 15 minutes away okay so we had a gas station and like a convenience store yeah and i was born and taken back to a double wide trailer

10:46Gary Brecka:and and uh my mom got pregnant with me when she was 17 um my dad was you know was out of the

10:52Matt Johnson:picture from the very beginning and it was me and my mom yeah and uh you know my grandparents you know were around and and my mom was working two jobs uh all the way you know i mean shoot until as far as I can remember. She was working two jobs. She was commuting an hour to work a nine-to-five and driving an hour back and then working overnights at the gas station. And so I was rotating a lot through my grandparents' house. Fast forwarding, my mom got married when I was probably 10. and that was where that was where all of the trauma really like where

11:38Gary Brecka:it started and

11:39Matt Johnson:at that point I had a little brother who was probably three so I was probably 12 my little brother was about four or five because like we would have conversations no so my brother and I both have we have different dads and then my mom was engaged to his dad and then that broke off and then she got married she's been married once and um you know she was married to this man who was he was a really good guy at first and then you know about six months in um shit started just really getting bad there was a lot of um started with you know emotional abuse um like i remember a time that i tell a lot where my mom went to work and my little brother and i were locked in a bedroom the entire time that she was gone like just like you like like dare like chair to the door and we were locked in bedroom for 10 hours wow and trying to comfort my brother through that as i'm 13 yeah you know and i'm not understanding like why the hell am i locked in a bedroom you know and i'm trying to figure out and i can't get out and then you know then it turned into physical abuse um and you know he was you know we we moved around a lot we were moving around to different because he was a government contractor and um yeah you know it got to the point where you know i remember a time where my mom was drugged by her hair to her bedroom and i watched that happen my little brother watched that happen uh and it got to the point where my mom started my mom became addicted to pills because she was trying to exit that life right or or at least numb it yeah and unfortunately in the pill addiction um you know she she got so far deep she tried to commit suicide wow and and i tell the story of me coming home and finding her face down on the floor in the kitchen how old were you

13:38Gary Brecka:at that time uh i was in high school at that point so probably 16 okay um and she was taken away for

13:47Matt Johnson:like three days like like if you if you i guess if you like try to commit suicide they take you and they like lock you up like in a facility yeah especially if it's like yeah and so i remember she was gone for like three or four days she came back and she like sat me down and you know because i was old enough she's like she's like i didn't want to like this isn't me yeah like i just we i have to get we have to get out of here yeah and but i but she was scared and you know that process led to that conversation led to um he smashed her face off of the front of a car and knocked her teeth out and it became a big debacle and he left like like we my it was a big ordeal that doesn't need to be talked about but he left then and at that point you know there was a he put us in a situation where my like he didn't want my mom to work you know the controlling or he had access to everything, the bank accounts, the cars, the, and when he left, he took everything.

14:52Matt Johnson:We had nothing. I mean, he drained the bank accounts. We had no car. Like it was, it was, I remember it was just, it was bad.

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15:35Matt Johnson:And from that point on, you know, obviously everything started to get better, but then I had to watch my mom like battle you know kind of like i did when i was a kid right like where she did everything she could to put food in and and give us shelter you know just you know back to working two jobs right and she was working overnights i was taking my brother to school she was you know she was grinding and that is where i get my endurance from i know that i know that i get my endurance and my drive and my will and and why i am here is because of because of who I watched my mother being.

16:04Gary Brecka:Yeah.

16:05Matt Johnson:And you know, so, but I think in that process that led me to like, you know, 17, as I turned 18 and I was a senior, I was like, I need to get out of here.

16:15Gary Brecka:Yeah. Like I've been like, I didn't like where like Amanda and I talk all the time.

16:20Matt Johnson:She's like, I want to, I haven't, we've been together three years and I haven't taken her back home because I, I don't think I want to go.

16:26Gary Brecka:Right.

16:27Matt Johnson:And I haven't been back to that town since I,

16:29Gary Brecka:since i left yeah and you know now is your brother still in pictures he yeah yeah so he

16:36Matt Johnson:actually he just moved to austin did he okay um yeah so he uh um you know he he went through actually the he went through a big trauma that led that ended up me is that's why i'm here um but yeah so he he lives in austin now um but you know so i i joined the military and um what age 18 yeah 18 and i left for basic training at 19 okay um so i had like a seven month waiting period until i left for basic training and um yeah it was you know i actually we were talking about this i think i was talking to kyle or somebody yesterday while we were running i was like there was no like i was a child like i can't we're talking about 18 here and maybe i had no clue like i didn't even know i didn't know how to do like you know i mean i knew how to do laundry but you know what i mean like like like i don't know how to wake up on my own you

17:31Gary Brecka:know like when you're 18 you can't find your ass with both hands no and like when i got there and

17:36Matt Johnson:that was my first time ever away from my mom and obviously through the single motherhood to my brother to all that trauma like that fuck like that got me yeah being away and like that was hard and you know basic training they just you know they break you down and it took me it probably took me a little bit over a month to really adapt and be like, oh, like I'm not leaving. Like, I made this choice and like, I'm here. This is it. But so what I did is I joined the National Guard because I was nervous going active duty and leaving my mother. Like that, because National Guard, you come back home and it's like, oh, two weeks, two weeks in the summer, um you know one week in a month so this so i go i leave basic training i come back home right back to that toxic environment that i left and that turned into i lived with four dudes we were partying drinking doing drugs every night i went to jail twice i was fighting you know like i i i'm so surprised those couple i was not kicked out of the military like i was a i was not a good person like i came back and i just i got swept into this toxic environment of of where i grew up but now as an adult and now i can make my own decisions around here like you know like just and and i just i look at that time frame and i'm like holy shit like how did i not really implode yeah yeah and i mean because i i when i first got in the military i I have a picture of myself from 2014 of just man boobs.

19:19Matt Johnson:I was this body, and I was almost 180 pounds. Oh, my gosh. From drinking, smoking weed every day, just horrible. I mean, I'm talking every single day I was drunk, every night, just all the time.

19:36Gary Brecka:Yeah. And it was, I think, because I just never faced those demons that I had.

19:42Matt Johnson:I tried. I left.

19:43Gary Brecka:Right.

19:43Matt Johnson:But then I came right back to that same environment. It's what happened. That's why people end up failing at things they try. Yeah. And what led me to the ultra running, right? I think is where we're going with this. Yeah, that's what I want to hear. That transition. Yeah. So 2021, in that timeframe, I moved out of that town. I got out of that partying phase. I actually, I went active. I got an active duty job in the military.

20:05Gary Brecka:Okay.

20:06Matt Johnson:Such a blessing. So I was in the National Guard, but I did almost five years active duty.

20:10Gary Brecka:Okay.

20:10Matt Johnson:Where I worked full-time at Camp Dodge, which is Iowa's largest National Guard base. So I worked at, crazy enough, right? Like during those days of me doing drugs, I got a job at Midwest Counter Drug.

20:23Gary Brecka:Yeah.

20:24Matt Johnson:Where I was, I'm not even kidding. Like I'm pretty sure I was still like smoking weed and I was going to work at Counter Drug where we were training law enforcement to like kick in doors and find drugs. It was crazy. um but got an active duty job moved up to des moines the capital um you know was making i made e5 sergeant was making probably you know four grand a month um got married very young probably uh 20 22 23 um to someone who was 19 20 and it was you know it was a it was a it was a great marriage um but we were babies and i was and i was still a very shitty person yeah and you know that you know that led me to when i moved to austin you know there's moral cover in the middle but you know went through a divorce moved to austin um but what got me into the ultra sport was um marcus my little brother in 2021 um had two friends that were murdered and he was marcus was 16 and then those two boys the two brothers were 16 and 18.

21:41Matt Johnson:They were brothers? Yeah, and they were his best friends. And to kind of just be completely transparent and tell you the bond that they had, my little brother's mixed in his dark skin. And we lived in rural Iowa, right? Where that is not, he was the only dark kid in this town. right and these two kids i have their names tattooed right here davante and malachi they

22:07Gary Brecka:moved into town and they were also mixed and so there was a bond between them because you know

22:12Matt Johnson:there was a lot of racism towards them and hatred um and they bonded because they were all you know when they when they became friends they were i don't know seven eight nine years old yeah you know and then they grew up together um unfortunately they you know they were murdered um not in this small town up in the city in Des Moines when they were splitting time at their mom's I think they

22:33Gary Brecka:just got caught up in the wrong crowd in the wrong crowd as they were getting older and they were splitting time between mom and dad um so I started looking for ways self-help I'm like because my

22:45Matt Johnson:brother dropped out of high school um he just he locked himself in his room said I'm not I'm not going to school he gained over 150 pounds oh my god and and like like at one point he was I'm pretty sure he was 300 and some pounds at at five foot five i mean he and he he just locked himself

23:03Gary Brecka:in his room wouldn't leave wouldn't like wouldn't do anything but just eat and so i i'm like i'm

23:10Matt Johnson:like i you're he's gonna die yeah you know and i'm like i need to and this was seven eight months that this happened like that you know because this was january they were killed and i didn't I didn't get to this point until fall.

23:26Gary Brecka:Right.

23:28Matt Johnson:So I just got on Google and I'm like self-help books.

23:31Gary Brecka:Yeah.

23:31Matt Johnson:And sure enough, first thing that pops up is Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. And the only reason I was attracted to this book is because it was wrote by a Navy SEAL. I had no idea. And I'm like, oh, this guy's in the military, writes a book. Cool, let's read it. Reading that book, I was like, Marcus, we're going to read this book together. Reading that book flipped my entire perspective on everything. And it wasn't the fact of like the stay hard, woo-woo bullshit is not what drew me to Goggins. It was the, if you go and you read those first three chapters, he was abused. His father was an abuser.

24:11Matt Johnson:His mother, like they were poor. They were, it was him and his brother. I related to, I'm like, how in the hell did this guy write a book and go through this yeah and i'm like who am i yeah i'm like i'm like that was me like like i i that happened to me i'm like and and this guy's writing books and is one of the most well-known runners of all time i'm like and at that point in my life i hated the military i was making excuses

24:37Gary Brecka:i was still drinking it was post-covid yeah and i was and like at that point i was still drinking

24:41Matt Johnson:i was you know just i still just wasn't a good person i wasn't where i wanted to be so what i did is i am not a great reader or writer um i started listening to the book and three times a week i would go out to the the track on camp dodge and it was a two mile like loop and i would run four loops eight miles and in like walmart shoes you know like i just i and i didn't you know in hoodie and a sweat yeah like no idea what you're doing yeah i had no clue what i was doing and i just would and i would listen to his book and i'm i'm not kidding i probably listened to that book since 2021 i probably listened to that book 15 times wow and to just remind myself like who i can be because he did it yeah you know not the stay hard you know no rest days like no no that's not me at all it's just like if if this guy can do it why can i not do it yeah and that's what i'm trying to preach to my audience so that was the early days of you

25:42Gary Brecka:just starting to run yeah right yeah like even even and i i didn't start running until i didn't

25:50Matt Johnson:start actually running full-time like running 30 40 miles a week until april of 2021 wow and now we're here because texas was 2022 right no texas was 2024 and 2025 i've done it twice right yeah

26:05Gary Brecka:wow so i mean would you say that you just fell in love with that or it was an escape because i mean that's like really hard shit for me well i think the reason i fell into the love of running is

26:19Matt Johnson:because it was the only time in my life that i was able to control the pain that i was in no one else had any control over me right and i controlled the pain i controlled like

26:32Gary Brecka:if you want to quit you can quit yeah and and and i've been through a lot of things in life

26:37Matt Johnson:and a lot of situations where i was unable to have control over what was happening to me

26:42Gary Brecka:so you you sort of start to fall in love with this maybe not for the reasons that most people

26:47Matt Johnson:think like conditioning and no i was running early on i was running away from everything yeah i was using that time of running as long as i could yeah 70 80 90 miles a week and i had no idea what i was doing i wasn't even eating food while i was doing it yeah but i was using that time because i was able to in that moment i was able to exit the fact that i hated my marriage I hated the military. I wasn't who I wanted to be. And I just, and when I ran, I was, I found out that I liked that person.

27:18Gary Brecka:And so then this morphs into you reconnecting with your faith. Yeah. You kind of really dedicating yourself to the sport. I mean, cause you're, you're an iconic figure in the sport and eventually it morphs into you moving in and, and living with jelly roll yeah which is i mean you know that the the 16 year old you looking at you know the 28

27:40Matt Johnson:year old you would have to be like wow yeah i never thought that i would be here no you know

27:46Gary Brecka:literally earning and gaining the trust of one of the most iconic you know musicians maybe maybe in all time certainly in the in that crossover rap country yeah right now for sure yeah so um So you start running. Did you set this goal for yourself that said, I'm just going to do something really, really epic? Because, you know, Jesse Itzler talks about this all the time, the Masogi.

28:10Matt Johnson:Yeah, yeah.

28:10Gary Brecka:That one thing you should do every year that you know you only have a 50-50 shot at completing. And I think most of us don't. I think we subconsciously don't want to set ourselves up for failure. So we either don't try or we do things that we know we can complete. So we set our goal so low. So for you, when was the, when was that big, bold, audacious goal set where you were like, okay, I'm going to run 842 miles across the state of fricking Texas.

28:41Matt Johnson:yeah okay you want to you want to fast forward to texas yeah yeah um so what happened was you know just to to quickly get to quickly get caught up yeah um february 2023 uh you know i had i had been trapped like i had been traveling i'd been racing you know iron mans and i was in the military and the military's like you know we don't want you doing this and at that point i was a recruiter and i was like hey like i can like that's what goggins did i was like i can recruit kids by using this Instagram platform. If I can build it, like, can you guys help me? And they're like, no, like we don't fucking, we don't, we don't like this.

29:14Gary Brecka:Like we don't want you doing this. Why is that you think? I don't know.

29:17Matt Johnson:I think, you know, I, I don't think that's the military in general. I had horrific leadership. Yeah. Like everyone on my team was fat. Everyone was out of shape. Like it was the small town, Iowa. It was the small town, Iowa vibe within the Iowa boys in the Iowa national guard. Like, like, you know, well, that's not normal. We don't do that, you know and like they didn't they didn't i didn't have any type of support from me saying i want to do hard things and post about it on instagram so people can see it but i never even had like i didn't even think i never once in my life was like i'm going to be an influencer right or you know like i was just like hey people are loving like people are telling me that i'm just inspiring them to run and you know like this is cool really like the biggest moment of my entire life the turning point moment was i came home from austin and my ex-wife met me in the kitchen was like i want a divorce as soon as i walked in the door yeah and i we had been having horrific problems i was i was a horrible person i was a liar i was a manipulator i was i was horrific and but i never i knew that i didn't i knew i needed to get out of that but i as a man couldn't make that choice right because i felt like it was my job to like i don't know i guess be a shitty person but I was in this you know I'm like I can't say no like I'm in you know and she met me in the kitchen she's like I want a divorce and that was I got home from Austin on Monday that was Monday on Friday night I was sitting in my upstairs bedroom she immediately left my mom had come over my brother was there and I was sitting my upstairs bedroom and I loaded a shotgun and put it right to my jaw whoa and I was sitting and I was going I was going to take my life sitting on the floor in my bedroom and by the grace of like god calling me to austin i i i'm not even joking i i get a text message from a friend it's a text message phone call i don't know and and it pops up and i see his name harrison zocker and he was in austin because he he when i when i was leaving austin on that monday he was like oh because he lives in the midwest and it's cold and that's why we bonded and he's like i'm not he's like i'm not leaving austin he's like i'm gonna stay here for like a month he goes he's online coach and he's like i'm just gonna chill down here as soon as he texted me something in me i saw his name and it said go like within me it was like go to austin and i i picked up my phone i texted him i was like are you still in austin and he's like yeah dude and i go i'm coming tomorrow i'll i'll explain more yeah and he's like okay and i i i I packed a duffel bag.

31:58Gary Brecka:Yeah.

31:59Matt Johnson:Actually, it wasn't a duffel bag. To be completely real, it was a, like, broken hamper that I'm pretty sure we still have. That black hamper that's, like, missing a handle. This hamper means so much to me. This hamper means so much to me. I, like, packed up this black hamper and just all my clothes and stuffed them in there and grabbed my dog and I drove to Austin.

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33:05Matt Johnson:he is he is incredible i drove to austin and i called my mom on the way down to austin and i was like i don't give a shit what is about to happen i'm gonna figure it out i had three thousand dollars in my bank account and i was like i'm like i'll be an online coach like i don't care I was like all like I'm my my idea was that I was going to use at that point I had about 25 ,000 followers. I was going to be an online fitness coach.

33:27Gary Brecka:Cool.

33:28Matt Johnson:And OK, to make that story quick, got down to Austin, lived in an Airbnb, lived in five Airbnbs over 61 days, ran out of all of my money. I had just won a marathon and did an Ironman within the same week. and right after the Ironman I had a friend that gave me this bike I sold that bike to put a deposit down on a duplex and I slept on the floor of that duplex for two weeks and I just started grinding I'll coach you $100 a month and I just slowly next thing you know I got a couch for$100 from the market right down the road I got a mattress pad I have a picture of the mattress pad with a blanket and a pillow.

34:13Matt Johnson:Yeah. And it was laying on the floor.

34:15Gary Brecka:Damn. And then I got a TV. Not a mattress, a mattress pad.

34:17Matt Johnson:A mattress pad. Yeah, yeah. The little pad.

34:20Gary Brecka:Yeah. Fast forward there, just started, just kept going.

34:24Matt Johnson:I just kept going. Yeah. And the Instagram following started to grow. Very first brand ever, Ketone IQ.

34:32Gary Brecka:Oh, yeah, yeah. I've talked to those guys. I love those guys. Michael Brandt.

34:36Matt Johnson:And they sent me a message and they're like, yo, we'd love to pay you$500 a month to promote our product. I know. No, I was like, are you kidding? I just won the lottery. I was like, I will give you my right arm for$500 a month. Yeah, yeah. And over the next two or three months, I signed another deal. The second deal was an alcohol deal, which was like -

34:55Gary Brecka:At that point, you'll take whatever.

34:57Matt Johnson:I probably shouldn't have done that one, but I signed the alcohol deal. I started blowing. It was like all of a sudden, everything started changing. and I met Amanda and this amazing woman was like first day we're together it was a Saturday night we're going to date do you want to go to church with me tomorrow and I'm like I'll go wherever the hell you want me to go take me take me wherever she's amazing started going back to church the ball started rolling the followers started skyrocketing and that led me that led me to my my masagi right like like the big the big one and late 2020 all in that time frame when i when i went back to church right like and i i had met i think i met amanda after the leg injury so i was running i spent 2023 running from everything yeah run just run run run and i was like oh my leg hurts i kept running my leg hurts i kept running i did a hundred mile race on a broken leg and I had no idea my leg was broken and I just thought it hurt couldn't finish

36:07Gary Brecka:this race go to the doctor they're like you you have three fractures like like I have the x-ray

36:14Matt Johnson:of like like you could see that it fractured in the calcium deposits like I can feel the calcium deposit right here because it's trying to heal itself and she's like you're done for six months

36:24Gary Brecka:and that's your identity at that point yes that's that's everything I have yeah and it was in that

36:29Matt Johnson:moment where I had to like sit with myself I had to sit with God I had to you know where I'm like what do I do yeah and one day just one day I went to the gym and I remember exactly where I was sitting outside the gym I still couldn't run I still was walking with a limp and I texted one of my best friends and I was like I want I don't know how it came I don't know I have no clue I said I just popped in my head I was like I want to run across the whole state of Texas yeah and I texted my friend and I was like I want to run across Texas and he's like you're a logistical nightmare but i think you can do it that's a good friend yeah yeah you're out of your fucking mind but i think you can yeah yeah yeah so that's that that was kind of you know obviously it took a little bit there um you know but that's that's how we got there yeah and and and it was it was

37:15Gary Brecka:20 2024 is what changed my life forever but the the money and the logistics i mean you know for 17 days to just be absent obviously you're not coaching during that time frame you're not earning money during that timeframe, did you get sponsors and, and you just lived in a van?

37:31Matt Johnson:Yeah. Yeah. So what happened is, you know, just, yeah, just like what you said, like, yeah, the operation that we had was the exact operation. You know, we had an RV. Yeah. Yeah. We had an, we had an RV and a sprinter van, but yeah, I just, you know, I, um, I overworked my team at that point. You know, I didn't have a lot of, you know, I mean, I had 200 ,000 followers. I had a little bit of Paul on the social media aside from brands. But I just started hitting them up. I was like, yo, like how much money can you give me to use your product while I do this event? And, you know, I feel like it was so good to do that because now I know so much about business and I had to teach myself all of these things because I didn't go to college.

38:09Matt Johnson:I just went to the military.

38:10Gary Brecka:Right.

38:11Matt Johnson:And like, oh, like we'll give you five grand for three reels and a thousand stories. You know, like they were just getting me and I'm like done.

38:19Gary Brecka:Yeah, yeah.

38:19Matt Johnson:And, you know, like and we accumulated$60 ,000 the first year. Wow.

38:24Gary Brecka:through 40 brands like it was it was it was i i like i tie my shoes with yeah yeah yeah yeah

38:32Matt Johnson:drew you met um drew is now yeah now one of my best friends and he was he was the lead content guy out there and i just put him through the ringer with the things he had to do but yeah we got we got sixty thousand dollars and the operation was yeah we we we cleared we had a I had a thousand dollars left when we were done. Like we were, and then I donated it to Valor Fix. I was doing it to raise money for charity. But yeah, that was - That's awesome, man. Yeah.

39:01Gary Brecka:And now, so I saw none of that side of you in the last 48 hours. I mean, the precision with which you ran this operation to get these guys a hundred miles, like I say, including my son, across the desert in the middle of the night. because I don't think most people realize like running for 24 and a half hours like these guys did, just the sheer grind and the, I mean, we got pulled over three times by the police. Yeah, right off the bat. Yeah, right off the bat, dude. We were barely in a night. I see the Popo come by and he bangs a U-turn, throws his lights on and parks. And parks in front of the convoy.

39:40Gary Brecka:In front of the convoy.

39:41Matt Johnson:Facing the convoy. That was the crazy, like, that was like,

39:44Gary Brecka:it felt malicious.

39:45Matt Johnson:Like, I was like, I was like, you're going to turn and face us.

39:48Gary Brecka:You were so nice, too. He's like, how are you, officer?

39:50Matt Johnson:Yeah. And I'm like, just keep running. Are you on shift? You're a little small talk.

39:56Gary Brecka:But, you know, I was impressed with, like, your unrelenting commitment to the safety of the runners. I think none of them understood the task that they were getting ready to do. Like I said, there's semis blown by us six feet off the side of the road. Half the shoulder was not wide enough for the vehicles to get off the road. and the first thing that cop said was, you need to be on the other side of this white line the entire time you're down. So half the time we're driving on all that gravel was pretty crazy. Yeah, I was pissed off because I couldn't sleep. I wasn't going to complain about it.

40:31Gary Brecka:Full sister sacked out in the back. But, you know, so you do this iconic race in Texas, but how does that jump to you moving in with celly roll? because I do remember during my journey with Jelly Roll, this dude, Matt, and I didn't know who you were, you know, like was moving in with them to train him. And I was like, who's Matt? Literally everyone. Like how did this kid just get involved in this? News stations were like, who is this random person with Jelly? Yeah. I didn't have any, you know, necessarily a problem with it. I'm like, well, look, man, he's got a chef. He's got a coach. I mean, it sounds like a great idea.

41:12Gary Brecka:but dude when you um parachuted in and and were with him 24 7 you were traveling with him everything

41:18Matt Johnson:right yeah yeah so we went to hawaii like in april yeah and he was landing in la for like a west coast stint of like he had things that were you know so they got a um they had a house up in beverly hills and when i was flying back from hawaii amanda was going to fly home and i was and I Ubered to this$30 million Beverly Hills mansion.

41:43Gary Brecka:Yeah, I'm far from you. Yeah, yeah.

41:45Matt Johnson:And I'm like, all right. And it was, yeah, it was the entire month that I was out there. We were traveling and, you know, training together.

41:53Gary Brecka:Yeah. And I mean, because at that point, Jelly hadn't even walked a 5K.

41:59Matt Johnson:Yeah, yeah. I think the first, you know, my connection to him was Ian, Larry was his coach. So crazy enough, 2023, when I was grinding, when I first moved to Austin, I was grinding for, you know, selling coaching to people. I get a call and this guy's like, yeah, like I'm on tour. You know, I want to run on that. I want to run around the island of Bali. And I'm like, oh, like you're like a musician. And he's like, no, he's like, I'm I'm Jelly Roll's chef. And I was like, holy shit. Like, that's crazy. And then come to find out he's like he won chef of the year for the UFC. And like, and I'm coaching this guy.

42:32Matt Johnson:So that's how I got the in with Jelly is I gained the trust of of Ian. And Ian was like, oh, Matt's personality, who he is. And he pitched it to Jelly where he's like, because Ian wasn't there the whole time. And the problem was, and you probably saw this with Jelly, Jelly and Ian are like side by side at all times. And Ian was going to be gone and Jelly wasn't going to have anyone to train with.

42:55Gary Brecka:Yeah, yeah. And that lack of accountability is a death sentence.

42:59Matt Johnson:Yeah, yeah. So they brought in a secondary chef, but then they wanted to bring me in to kind of play that Ian role to help him, to have somebody there to train with. But yeah, I remember my first workout. I wish I could pull it up on my phone. But the first workout was like a five-minute walk and like 10 seconds of, and we use the term run very loosely. Yeah, yeah. 10 seconds of as fast as you can.

43:29Gary Brecka:Yeah.

43:30Matt Johnson:You know, and then that was it. Yeah, and then we got in. by the time that I got done right before the Two Bears 5K, he had ran one mile without stopping.

43:44Gary Brecka:Yeah, dude. And for him at that time, I mean, that was iconic.

43:47Matt Johnson:Even when I was out there, he was still right at 330 maybe. Yeah, yeah. And that's a big boy. Because when I look back at him now when we were out there, I look at photos and I thought he was skinny then.

44:02Gary Brecka:Yeah.

44:03Matt Johnson:Now. Now he's like, he's, now you look at him and you're like, oh, this guy's skinny.

44:09Gary Brecka:So many people. Yeah. So I love how, to me, this is like a story of two misfits, like with very kind of similar backgrounds, you know, doing something really iconic. because if you know even if you've never done a 5k i mean to think that you're going to take a 350 60 pound man and move that mass over you know 3.2 miles is a major feat i mean getting to the mailbox is a major feat i i remember one of my first conversations with jelly and he was like where do i start and i said you just start by walking to the mailbox like literally yeah um just you know bite-sized bite-sized goals and it sounds like when you parachute it in like you you just started chipping away with this, with these little bite-sized goals.

44:59Gary Brecka:I love how you say we use the term running loosely.

45:01Matt Johnson:We use the term running very loosely. That is a full sentence quote from Jelly himself.

45:06Gary Brecka:Really? Yeah.

45:07Matt Johnson:Y 'all know we use the term running very loosely around here.

45:10Gary Brecka:Yeah.

45:11Matt Johnson:Yeah.

45:12Gary Brecka:Yeah. But you had a major impact on him. And then, you know, finishing this 100-mile race with these guys, I know that it had a major impact. They raised almost$400 ,000 for the charity.

45:21Matt Johnson:And the documentary, it'll go well over$500K with the documentary coming out. And it's going to be incredible.

45:28Gary Brecka:And I think for the people that are listening, so what does all of this mean? They're like, okay, he had a rough life. Jelly's had a rough life. But look at them now. I mean, there's somebody sitting on their couch right now, maybe listening to this podcast, that in a similar situation to you, and they have to take that first step. Like literally just take that first step. What I like about what you did and what I like about what you do is that it doesn't cost you anything to just get off your couch and set a goal and just start. So where does it, for somebody that is coming from a similar place to where you were, where do they start?

46:02Gary Brecka:How does it start tomorrow morning? What do they get up and do?

46:05Matt Johnson:Yeah. You know, I think that, you know, I've said this multiple times. You know, if you have to set a goal. And I feel like the problem with people is that you're scared to fail. and you can't you you truly can't be scared to fail what a lot of people don't know about me is i've actually dnf'd more ultra marathons than i've finished wow yeah it's true like like i i i have i like official hundred mile races i think i've done five and i think i've finished two wow yeah yeah and you know i i'm not afraid to fail that's why that i truly believe like that's why I'm different. And if you want to be different, you have to not be afraid to fail either.

46:51Matt Johnson:And what, what is a failure? You have to define what a failure is, right? You know, failure is not trying. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but if you're sitting on the couch right now and you're like, well, where do I start? What do I do? Well, you know, tomorrow, if you're fit enough, like go run, you know, set a goal. Hey, I'm going to run a mile. I'm going to run a mile Monday through Friday.

47:06Gary Brecka:Yeah.

47:07Matt Johnson:You know, and like, like, like set a goal. And here's what happens. Monday, you run a mile. Tuesday, you run a mile. Wednesday, you wake up and you're like, ah, I'm sore. I don't want to do this anymore and then you quit right right what do you do the next day because what you do the

47:20Gary Brecka:next day defines who you really want to be yeah and you have to be okay with that failure because

47:27Matt Johnson:because what you do the next day if you want to if you want to sit in chairs like this that the people that are here guess what they woke up the next day and they started over yeah and then you start on thursday all right i'm gonna go thursday friday saturday sunday monday i'm around a mile and then you know next up the last time you got two days next up you're gonna get four

47:48Gary Brecka:and you're gonna fail again and that's okay yeah you know you'll get it just you have to be okay

47:54Matt Johnson:with failing and and and that's it like people why don't you start well because it's hard and

48:00Gary Brecka:and and i might i might not be able to do it yeah well and you know i noticed too like you're you're very present also like um you're not somewhere else when you're doing these things i'm uh i'll never forget we had just left the 93.5 mile aid station um and my son was in really pretty good shape but i pulled up next to him and i was i got about a mile in with him and um my mind was like wandering around somewhere else and you pulled up right behind cole and i and you put your hand on our back and started running with us and you were like hey guys never forget that this is um this is there will never be a first time um for you to be in this in this situation this is the last time that it will be the first time so just be present just take this all in because this is an amazing moment you know you'll wish that you were right back here yeah at some point you sort of just and then you backed off and it was just such a cool moment for cole and i because i've been in that situation with cole before you know in antarctica and when he did the great world race and there's nothing to me like no place i'd rather be than in one of those situations with one of one of my kids and i was like you know what he's so right this is this is the last time that it will ever be the first time yeah you've run 100 miles in in vegas and my mind just instantly cleared and i was like i'm just not going to do anything but be present right in this moment and what was so cool was the sun was starting to rise um and that sun was like caffeine for these guys i saw the mood change even

49:36Matt Johnson:you even you because you came up you're like the sun's up it's caffeine yeah dude you felt yeah

49:41Gary Brecka:because it was so cold it was dark and and it just sucked for them not not for me and i looked over and i could see the sphere and they had the sphere that was like a like a sunrise i've never seen that before and um and it was just that that that cold bright morning and at that moment i was like these guys are actually all going to finish it and you you could feel like the energy of the group starting to pick up a little bit yeah and um so thank you for that by the way because it was like that i needed that reframing of of of that moment um just so i could be present i think a lot of times we just go through life and we never stop to realize it's not the destination it's the journey yes yeah like you want to enjoy the journey and that's the biggest thing is like even downstairs

50:28Matt Johnson:this morning right what were the boys talking about all of the painful times yeah you know like like they're like oh the finish line right because that's probably about damn near the only good time that they had yeah but but they're just they're taught they're talking about those horrible painful

50:43Gary Brecka:Painful moments. In a cave. Yeah. I remember, you know, some of them couldn't even move their hips. They were doing this, like, side waddle. And I didn't know. You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like they had braces on their legs and couldn't bend their knees or their hips. And they were doing this sort of weird waddle. They weren't supposed to do that. Yeah.

51:03Matt Johnson:You know, they trained for 71 days.

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51:36Gary Brecka:Your body floats in an awkward way sometimes. So it's just a more efficient, comfortable experience, in my opinion. It takes up way less space, too. It has a smaller footprint, so you can put these on your patio, your garage, your bathroom, your locker room. You can really put it anywhere. I've got one on my balcony. I've got two in my bathroom. So this is why cold life is my favorite cold punch on the market. So click the link below, and you can order yours today. Make sure you get the Ultimate Human version. now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast so how do you deal with the mental side of of ultra endurance racing i mean what how what percentage of it is is actually mental versus physical you know um it depends on where you're at in the process right like i would say honestly

52:19Matt Johnson:at this point with me i would say 95 of it is all mental yeah and five percent of it is is physical once you're in shape to run that distance like you know just like just like you saw you know the reason why cole feels so good today yeah i was shocked is because he's already done this type of stuff before the seven marathons in seven days his body is already like oh i remember this you know

52:46Gary Brecka:so once that you kind of build that base yeah it's all it's all here and i even told you know

52:52Matt Johnson:right at the very beginning even after looking at those guys i i told i don't know somebody amanda I was like, if Cole was doing this on his own, he would go under 20 hours.

53:00Gary Brecka:Yeah.

53:00Matt Johnson:Like, you know, he's just – Cole was probably – I had Cole at one, Kyle at two, Brad at three.

53:05Gary Brecka:Mm-hmm.

53:06Matt Johnson:And, you know, the rest of them, that was actually pretty much how it was.

53:11Gary Brecka:Yeah, yeah. No, that's exactly how it was.

53:12Matt Johnson:And, yeah, but, you know, once you get there, it's all mental. Just like I said earlier, I truly believe anyone can move that distance if you are a fit human. Yeah. But not everybody can do that. and that's what that's what that's what sets people apart yeah when we were on the great world race

53:29Gary Brecka:it was we were six marathons in and cole had gotten a really bad stomach uh bug on on the flight from from istanbul to cartagena and i mean just throwing up diarrhea probably lost four or five pounds on the flight he was still sick as a dog he was fully fasted had no fluids and i remember telling my um uh telling max my the head of our production team who went with us before the race i was like there's no chance he's finishing this marathon and cartagena was so hot and it was such a hot humid sunny long unforgiving course and like just the dehydration alone is gonna is he's gonna dnf it i actually ended up running the entire marathon and i'd never run a marathon yeah um and I didn't train at all.

54:19Gary Brecka:But I ended up doing that just because I was so worried about my son. And he just went to this place. He locked in because he was in the pain cave from like mile six, just so dehydrated. And every two and a half miles are these rest stations. And it's Cartagena, right? It's like third world country. So the rest stations were like third world rest stations. And they just basically had a port-a-potty and a little table with some bananas. and um and he would go into the port-a-potty and he'd throw up and i could hear him he had diarrhea he would sit on the little port-a-potty toilet and then throw up into the urinal and then he would get back out and start running again and i was at the end of the race i was filling little um bottle caps full of coconut water and he would sip on a bottle cap while he was running it was like the only nutrition he could take and uh to this day i don't know where he got the fortitude to go through that because I, uh, you know, my level of concern for him was like at a 10,

55:17Matt Johnson:especially when you're in a third world country and you're like, we don't have a lot of access as a medical facility.

55:22Gary Brecka:And I'll never forget. Like I start to get a little delirious. Like I was all full of vigor at the, at the, you know, at the, at the start line, I pull up next to Cole and I'm like, listen, if you don't give up on this race, I won't give up on you. You know, I'm going to stay with you this whole race. And then like mile 18, I was like, you want to throw in a towel dude i'm all in i mean there's a lot of quitters in this world yeah the quitting's not

55:41Matt Johnson:as bad you know people quit all the time people quit all the time thomas edison 35 000 times

55:48Gary Brecka:i didn't say it and then i would start to get like sentimental and i was like because i was

55:53Matt Johnson:half delirious and i was like you know what cole there's no place i'd rather be than right here

55:57Gary Brecka:with you right now someday we're gonna wish we were right back here and he looks at me he goes dad shut the fuck up yeah i was like pull a letter yeah because he was just yeah yeah that you apologize to me oh no for sure i give i give amanda that same thing all the time where she's

56:14Matt Johnson:just and you can use that's it that's when you're in there yeah you know when you're in there and it's just like you're you're trying to battle yourself and you just can't have anything from

56:23Gary Brecka:the outside world come in yeah yeah so i think i think that's the big takeaway from these it's such a metaphor for life and you know if you're sitting listening to this podcast you're like i'm I'm never going to run 100 miles. And maybe you never will. It's not about that. But it's not about that. It's literally about accomplishing something that you never, ever thought you could. Every single one of those guys broke down in tears at the end of the, you just saw every emotion. Even as we were coming up to the finish line. Brad just lost it.

56:52Matt Johnson:Brad was going through it.

56:54Gary Brecka:He was, man. And I don't think most people never find that place in themselves. And it's such a beautiful thing.

57:03Matt Johnson:Yeah.

57:03Gary Brecka:You know, and it's not just the pain. It's that overwhelming sense of accomplishing something really, really hard.

57:11Matt Johnson:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, I've heard that, you know, I said that after Texas where I was like, I hope, I hope that anyone out there in an Instagram story, I was like, anyone out there can feel this type of happiness within my body. Amen. Like, it is the most incredible thing in the world. It's not about, just like we said, it's not about running.

57:31Gary Brecka:Yeah.

57:31Matt Johnson:You know, it's not even about fitness.

57:33Gary Brecka:Yeah.

57:33Matt Johnson:Like, you know, if you changing your life looks like you're scared to just leave your job and go to a new one. Like that, and then, oh, no, like, what happens if I don't like that one? Then find another one.

57:45Gary Brecka:Yeah.

57:45Matt Johnson:Then find another one. Yeah. Then find another one. That's the same thing as run one more mile. Yeah. One more mile. You have to figure out where you can apply this type of intent. You can't be afraid to fail. And it doesn't need to be fitness.

57:58Gary Brecka:So what's next for you? What's your next big, bold, audacious goal?

58:08Matt Johnson:July. The 4th of July. This year? Yeah.

58:11Gary Brecka:Yeah.

58:13Matt Johnson:I haven't announced this yet at all. It's not a - Drop it, dude. Dude, drop it.

58:19Gary Brecka:Drop it.

58:20Matt Johnson:Don't hold back. All right, this is 90 % confirmed.

58:23Gary Brecka:Okay.

58:24Matt Johnson:All right, so that's why I haven't really dropped it yet.

58:26Gary Brecka:We'll keep it between you, me, and 20 million people that watch the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

58:31Matt Johnson:I'm going to run 250 miles from Times Square to the front lawn of the White House on the 4th of July. And my goal is one of our Iowa National Guard units was deployed in Syria, and two of our boys were killed about a month ago. You probably saw that.

58:49Gary Brecka:I did see that.

58:51Matt Johnson:That was an Iowa National Guard?

58:52Gary Brecka:Yes. That was, wow. Yeah.

58:55Matt Johnson:And my goal is to get a hold of them and get their deployment flag. And I want to carry their deployment flag to the White House.

59:03Gary Brecka:That's awesome.

59:03Matt Johnson:In honor of them while raising money for a veteran's charity. So cool. So that's my goal this year. It'll be part of the White House. So, you know, this is America's 250th birthday this year. So happy birthday, America. So, you know, 250 miles for 250th birthday. And then, you know, hopefully I can get a hold of that deployment flag and, you know, carry that.

59:25Gary Brecka:I'm sure the families will do that for you, man.

59:27Matt Johnson:Yeah, carry that the way. So, yeah, I'm excited about that. And, you know, there's some partners involved. I'm just going to leave them out of it for now. Yeah, I'm very excited to do that. And then, you know, the next one is getting married, I guess. Yeah. His beautiful fiance is right off camera.

59:50Gary Brecka:Bruised up from the fall that she took on the side of the road. I was following her and I saw her eat it out the side of the road, but she bounced right back up. And so getting married, the accomplishments of school, that is phenomenal. I'll also put in a shameless plug for, you know, Jelly and your run club. which is now one of the biggest run clubs yeah on Strava yeah the losers run club yes we have a big

1:00:14Matt Johnson:large Strava group a Facebook group um yeah yeah so we're gonna try to break the Guinness Book of

1:00:19Gary Brecka:World's record on April 19th in Vegas yeah with Dana White um yesterday I was in Dana's office and and I got him to commit to running the 5k he's like I haven't run a mile in 15 years that's

1:00:32Matt Johnson:crazy like when I think of Dana White I'm like yo like that like that's wild yeah that's wild

1:00:38Gary Brecka:And I know Dana because Dana is one of those guys. If he, he's either kind of all in or all out. Like when I first started working with him and he was like, I'll do whatever you say for 10 weeks. I can do anything for 10 weeks. And then six weeks in, he was like, I'm never giving this up. But he committed. And so I brought his assistant in. I brought his like right hand Elliot in. I got as many witnesses. I took a video, sent it to Jelly Roll. And I was like, Jelly, Dana's in. So he's going to run it. And the whole idea is not to set a land speed record, but just to inspire a lot of people. Yeah, for sure.

1:01:09Gary Brecka:We want to carry the weight that Jelly lost over that 5K. Yeah. To just show people that it's just like what you've overcome, what he's overcome, and just inspire people to maybe choose movement and exercise as an outlet.

1:01:25Matt Johnson:Yeah.

1:01:26Gary Brecka:Rather than drugs or alcohol or just isolation. and and what i find that happens every time i'm around one of these groups like the great world race or the hundred miles that you guys just did the unity the community that comes out of accomplishing something like that is absolutely palpable yeah like you guys love each other

1:01:48Matt Johnson:like you guys yeah yeah yeah i told kyle i said yo like after this run yeah like like

1:01:55Gary Brecka:the six of you will have a bond that is different than any other you guys think that your friends

1:02:00Matt Johnson:now like you will like these will be the greatest friends that you have for the rest of your life yeah because you suffered together yeah that's the type of camaraderie that you see in the military

1:02:08Gary Brecka:yeah you know and yeah i've interviewed a lot of a lot of seals and yeah um dj shipley and uh you know sean ryan other guys that like talk about how that that that you know that pain is a unifier yes you know that's because because when you're you know and that's something to the audience as

1:02:26Matt Johnson:well you know like like if you want to get into you know fitness have someone have someone with you you know you know if you're just trying to get off the couch you call up one of your friends maybe they're just waiting for you to call yeah and because maybe they need the same yeah yeah because when you are doing something and you're suffering when you know that the person next to you is suffering it changes everything because because then you can you know in your own head you're like well you know if i'm suffering if gary's suffering next to me then you know if he's

1:02:54Gary Brecka:doing it then i can do it yeah so yeah so so the last thing i want to touch on is is um you you talked about suffering some depression after your texas race um and like post-race depression post-accomplishment depression however whatever you want to call it um how did you how did you grapple with that because now you accomplish this insanely bold audacious goal and and you fell into depression and and i've had i've had a lot of athletes talk about that that i that i know including like john jones and um michael chandler you know they've always talked about how your identity becomes this iconic figure um dj dillashaw talked about the same thing you know three-time ufc champion and then you're no longer a ufc champion and like your accomplishments are yesterday's accomplishments and now you're you find yourself in this really strange identity crisis like well who am i now what's next do i have to keep doing this to to to get validation and how did you crawl out of that yeah well you know i want to be completely transparent right off the bat is that you know the the depression was you know imagine imagine going for 17 days

1:04:16Matt Johnson:and having people tell you all day long, you're the greatest, you're so good, like you're the best, you're inspiring me, no, other people couldn't do this, you're the go, like, you know, and then unfortunately when that ends, whether it's running or carrying a UFC world title or anything like that, when it ends, no one cares.

1:04:38Gary Brecka:They don't.

1:04:39Matt Johnson:Like, you know, and like, yeah, okay, maybe you have fans out there that care, yeah, sure, but like the noise stops. and when you fade from the UFC, right? Like if you're not fighting.

1:04:50Gary Brecka:Somebody else is. Somebody else is.

1:04:52Matt Johnson:The world just always continues to move on.

1:04:55Gary Brecka:Yeah.

1:04:55Matt Johnson:And so what I found is, you know, just like what you said, it's identity. You know, I don't like Matt Johnson, the ultra runner, you know, the Matt Johnson underscore underscore, the Instagram guy, right? Like that's, that's not who I want to be. Right. I want to be Matthew. Like I want to be me.

1:05:17Gary Brecka:Yeah.

1:05:18Matt Johnson:And you know, what does that mean? And you know, for me, it's like even this year, right? Like, like for me, it was, it was so big. I told Amanda after the Texas run, you know, cause I did Texas in 24. I did East to West. I just did it this October, North to South.

1:05:31Gary Brecka:Okay.

1:05:32Matt Johnson:And so I'm the only man to cross Texas both ways.

1:05:35Gary Brecka:Wow.

1:05:36Matt Johnson:Yeah. So fastest man to do it. Fastest man to do it both ways. And the only man to do it both ways. wow that's cool um but i told her i was like i don't want to do anything next year like i don't i don't want to do this again i don't want to like i don't i don't i will i don't think i will ever do a 20-day event ever again yeah it's just too hard on the body yeah and but i told her i'm like that's when i became you know and then and then i had the opportunity with kyle in november um you know october november or yeah october to become matt johnson coach matt yeah you know so then it's like okay like now i'm coach matt like now i have something so then it was november december january i was wearing the coaching hat and i'm just training you know i'm just training on my own running 50 miles a week i'm lifting in the gym you know but like i know that like this big event yesterday is coming and you know so it's just it's not putting your identity yeah you have to yeah so it doesn't become who you are so i i wind down all of my podcasts i can't

1:06:37Gary Brecka:wait to hear your answer here by asking my guests the same question there's no right or wrong answer yeah to this question but what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human that's easy to me like being the ultimate human is is is helping others like i i believe that we we are put on

1:06:55Matt Johnson:this earth to, you know, to not just be for, for us, but to be for others. I get my most fulfillment when I am, when I am helping others. I never had anyone there for me.

1:07:06Gary Brecka:Yeah.

1:07:07Matt Johnson:I never had a dad there for me. I never had anyone telling me how to run, how to lift. Like I had to go to the gym and just watch people doing, you know, tricep, you know, tricep push downs. And I'm like, okay, like I'm going to copy that.

1:07:19Gary Brecka:Right.

1:07:19Matt Johnson:I never had anyone there for me. Like, if you know something, share with somebody be there for somebody and that like to me like that is the ultimate human like just showing just showing love to others it's just like that is that's amazing man that's it it's

1:07:35Gary Brecka:helping i gotta say like john maxwell one of the greatest success authors of all time he talks about the difference between living a life of significance and living a life of service and like being in service to other people and like how much more fulfilling it is brother mad respect for you man thank you for getting my son 100 miles through the desert safely appreciate you we're going to follow your story absolutely um how does my audience find you if they want to

1:07:59Matt Johnson:know more about you uh yeah um instagram uh you know i have an instagram page at matt johnson um google matt johnson runner you'll find all the crazy stuff um and then youtube yeah on the youtube you know we're trying to i'm trying to my one of my goals this year is i want to hammer down on the youtube just doing doing cool stuff and documenting inspirational stuff you know i i I built the Instagram following through all the funny, you know, BS, but like now, like I want to really show people like the life I'm living.

1:08:25Gary Brecka:Yeah.

1:08:25Matt Johnson:And, you know, hopefully they can figure out how to, you know, get there for themselves as well.

1:08:29Gary Brecka:Sounds great, man. Matt, I hope you come back on The Ultimate Human, brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And until next time, message of science.