260. Calley Means & Kyle Diamantas: On MAHA, Food Dye Reform, GRAS Loopholes & US Food Crisis

21:37You look at the food. It's all fried inflammatory food. Let's get whole food protein. So it took the principles of the dietary guidelines and we're pushing that on hospitals. And the hospitals are billing Medicare and Medicaid up to$400 per day for food, the government. So this is not an affordability issue. This is just a common sense issue. And frankly, as Kyle said, and I credit the hospital CEOs, they've come to us and said, this is ridiculous. They've actually welcomed it. And we're working with them on voluntary commitments for just general food that they serve at the hospitals. hospitals are the largest employer in the United States.

22:12More Americans are employed in the healthcare hospital system than any other industry.

22:16Gary Brecka:So we see this trickle into the cafeteria. Yeah, it trickles into healthcare workers being sicker than the average American. And that's tens of millions of people. So this is a very important act for patient health, but also just general American public health because tens of millions of Americans are eating at hospitals every day. And to your point, Gary, these are the sickest among us. and they're getting terrible nutrition in many cases. And they're captive too. Like they don't have a choice. They don't have a choice. Being at Disney World. Unfortunately, there's a lot of sick people that go to the hospital.

22:47They don't have loved ones there. They can bring them a home-cooked meal. They're forced to eat what's delivered to them. And part of it, you know, your story about Sage's Post and part of it is just the lack of education that some in the healthcare space don't have when it comes to nutrition. That's another area that Secretary Kennedy and the administration has been focused on is nutritional education and medical schools. But today's announcement by Florida, which is a voluntary commitment that they're making to sort of take the lead on this program, is to get foods into the hospitals here, spearheaded by Nicholas Children's Hospital right here in Miami, that will focus on matching the dietary guidelines.

23:21So the foods served in the hospitals here in Florida that are making this pledge will meet the heightened standards of the dietary guidelines that's focused on more fresh fruits and vegetables, more whole foods, proteins, whole grains, minimization of things like sugars and ultra processed foods. So a massive win for these hospitals and for patients in Florida. Kyle, it just makes a great point about how we think about things. So we have the letter to nudge on the macro incentives. Then we had hospitals in Florida step up. they're doing local food procurement. They're doing really interesting food as medicine things, better, better food at the hospitals.

23:57You know, as this momentum happens, we have really interesting conversations and these public private partnerships, along with taking a firm stand and work on where money should go, it's, it's having a huge impact. It's exactly what's happened where we nudge on the dyes, but then Walmart comes calling, Target comes calling and they know this is the right thing to do. And they're making voluntary commitments. That's the flywheel that we're trying to create. Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that too, the actual level of corporate cooperation

24:21Gary Brecka:that you're getting. Because I don't subscribe to the theory that there's an evil wizard behind the curtain that is intentionally trying to make people say that. These are not hostile actors. Yeah, they're not hostile actors. And they're working the system, right? I mean, they are playing by the rules, the existing rules. The rules needed to change, which you're changing them. And it's no different than a professional sports. You know, somebody pulls off this amazing play and scores a touchdown or a goal, and you go, how are they able to do that? Well, it's within the rules, you know, and these corporations are navigating this, and they're just driving trucks through the holes in the regulatory environment.

24:58Gary Brecka:And the fact that you are reevaluating those, closing some of those, expanding other areas, this is what's in the best interest of the American people. I want to shift to talking about the GRAS guidelines, because I think generally regarded as safe is something that most Americans don't capture an understanding of. Can you give us a little bit of context on what are they and what are some of the positive changes that you're making in GRAS guidelines and why should American people care about that? Yeah, GRAS is a really complicated subject that goes back to 1958. Okay, so if you go back to 1958, we were at a time not totally dissimilar from now where there were concerns among the American people about a number of incidents that had happened where people have gotten sick or died because of additives that were found in food.

25:49And so Congress said, we need to address this. So we're going to pass this new law, these food additive amendments, as they're called, which is going to require any new food additive that's going to enter the food supply to file a formal approval, a petition, a food additive petition with FDA for formal review and approval. Can't go to market until FDA has reviewed it and approved it. The problem is that that same law, the 1958 food additive amendments, had an exception in there that said if you're generally recognized as safe or grass, you don't have to go through that food additive petition process, right?

26:23And at the time, you know, go back to 1958, Gary, we did not have the complex supply of ingredients that we now have with all sorts of manipulations and precision changes to ingredients that we have now, right? At the time, Congress was thinking about things like salt, vinegar, pepper, flour. Those were the grass ingredients that had been in the food supply, generally recognized as safe among qualified experts. And so, unfortunately, that exception, which was intended to be an exception, became the tail that wags the dog and became a pathway that some would say has been exploited for now, you know, seven decades or close to seven decades.

27:05And there's been different iterations that FDA has taken to try to regulate these substances. There was a period under Nixon where FDA was affirming these and codifying grass substances in statute. There were other ways. Most recently, there's been a voluntary grass process that a lot of companies use where they can voluntarily come in and ask FDA to give what we would call like a no questions letter, a good day letter, basically saying we agree with their conclusion that it's generally recognized as safe. But the statute and regulatory framework has permitted this process to continue on. And it's something that this administration, the Secretary Kennedy, has been very passionate about.

27:45You know, we are in an interagency process to try to change how FDA regulates grass substances. And so that's something that's been under deliberation literally since, I believe, last March, maybe May. It's an absolute priority for this administration. The work continues. And we're hopeful that one way or another we'll see meaningful change when it comes to grass standards here soon. Yeah, I think – when we think about these issues at the White House, this is not a new regulation. I would characterize this as fixing the perversion and corporate capture of an existing regulation. It is not right, and no America would think it's right, that over 90 % of new ingredients in the food supply, which we can't pronounce, which are totally novel compounds, are designated by industry as generally recognized as safe, which then means that the FDA does not have a record of that ingredient being added in the food supply and has no record of safety studies whatsoever.

28:46It's a perversion of the regulation. So I'll give you an example, Gary. There's an ingredient called terraflour, which –

28:52Gary Brecka:Already sounds bad. Yeah, I believe it comes from some South American plant. And we had no record of this. We all of a sudden got a number of adverse event complaints, around 400 of them with a lot of reports of basically gallbladders exploding or failing. And we do investigations and we're trying to do trace back, trace forward, understand what's happening. What did these people eat? Is there a common food they eat? We identified a frozen product and we looked at the ingredient list. And ultimately, we see this ingredient, terraflower, that we had never heard of before at FDA because it didn't come through a formal process.

29:30It was a self-crashed ingredient. And so we had no record of this. I would like to think that had there been a requirement that they bring that to FDA through an approval process, that we wouldn't have allowed it on market because we would have seen the potential dangers that this ingredient ultimately posed. And so in this case, these illnesses and injuries were totally preventable. but we didn't know about the ingredient in advance. And so that's sort of a prime example of some of the downfalls here. Now grass is incredibly complex. There's a lot to it. There's other machinations of it that we're working through.

30:08There's impacts on things like dietary supplements we're thinking about. There are codified substances. There's a really complex array of ways that ingredients can actually get into the market today.

30:19Gary Brecka:Yeah. And so there's a lot going on in that space, and we're really working hard through the process. You know, I woke up this morning and there was – my phone was looking at the news, and there was an FDA recall on a chocolate company, and they had these different iterations of chocolate, and one was like euphoria, and the other one was sexual. And they actually found the dalafil and sildenafil. Yeah, absolutely. Pharmaceutical compounds in the chocolate, which would be under the brand names Cialis and Viagra. It wasn't Cialis and Viagra. It was Tadalphil and Sildenafil, but the erectile dysfunction drugs.

30:57Gary Brecka:And people were having these hyposystolic episodes where their blood pressure would drop. I mean, because they're vasodilators. So there you are thinking that you're gonna have, you know, a nice bar of dark chocolate. You had some polyphenols and it's the sexual version. You're like, hey, why not? and, you know, you experience this rapid drop in blood pressure. So you have the bad actors, which wasn't even on the label, by the way. So, you know, hats off to the FDA for this. But I was just, my head just exploded. You'd be surprised how often we see that. Whether it's chocolate or some of these supplements sold in gas stations.

31:35Yeah. We see that a lot where an API, an active pharmaceutical ingredient is placed in some of these products.

31:40Gary Brecka:And it's nowhere on the label. I mean, so, because, you know, there are a lot of contraindications to those drugs. And they're prescribed for a reason. And, you know, imagine that you're getting a prescription drug compound from, you know, just a whole food product that, you know, you're taking to enjoy your life. And it wasn't, and I feel like there's the errors of omission and then there's the errors of commission, right? I mean, nobody has errors in commission insurance, right? The commissive errors are the ones where you intentionally, you are well aware of what's going on. You put it in there anyway.

32:18Gary Brecka:Delete it from the label. And so, I mean, again, hats off to the FDA for catching that, for recalling that, and then for holding them responsible for that. Yeah, and I would say when it comes to grass, just to round out the discussion, most of the food industry would like to see grass reform. You know, these are companies that by and large believe FDA is the premier authority in the space and FDA review of an ingredient they believe is good for their own business, right? So think about a large, you know, cereal company, for example. If they want to innovate and put a new ingredient in their food supply, they've got to buy that, you know, on a multi-year contract in large volumes, right?

33:00So they want to buy an ingredient that's been through FDA's review process. Very few of them will actually buy at significant scale a self-grass ingredient. And so when you talk about large food companies and the companies we're talking to, overwhelmingly supportive of grass reform because they understand that having that additional level of transparency is actually not only good for consumers but good for industry as well.

33:25Gary Brecka:Yeah, I mean, it can – the people that are going to play by the rules and do things right and elevate their manufacturing to meet these standards or exceed these standards, you know, they're the ones that are going to thrive. And I don't think anyone is against big companies making a lot of money. They employ a lot of people. They pay a lot of taxes. They feed the system. We want to see the most profitable, most impactful companies in the world be companies that are in service to humanity, that care about the ingredients, that go into the people that they serve. We're building a bridge. And I think it's not government regulation building that bridge.

34:01Americans are demanding a change to our food system. It's existential to our country. What we're reflecting is the voter market impulses that have been reflected through the Maha movement. We have to improve this. And, you know, one last thing I'd add to the grass, and again, this isn't pointing fingers, but I think this is just stating facts of where we are. But I think most Americans would agree this is reasonable and it's under current law. The food industry, there's these weird sounding ingredients, but they're also responsible for having safety studies of the ingredients at the amount that they're being put in the product and recommended to consumers.

34:39And I think this is an important conversation that we need to have. big brand name products in America have foundationally different ingredients than other countries, including sugar content. If you look at major soda brands, major candy brands, major cereal brands, the exact same product has marginally to substantially lower amounts of sugar often in other countries. If you are a cereal with 20 grams of sugar, marking that cereal to five-year-olds for daily consumption, by law, you're actually required to understand the safety and efficacy of that product that's intended use. You know, if a candy brand, if their slogan is everyday use, has everyday in their slogan, it's a fair question to ask, where's the safety study of this product with 40 grams of sugar that spikes blood sugar being used every day.

35:38So again, this is just a reminder, I think, for the food industry. This is not mass finger pointing, but I do think we all need to have an incremental conversation here about what the law currently is, about what's happening in the country, and about how we need to build a bridge to the future where we're not systematically by design spiking our children's blood sugar every single day to diabetic levels and causing a mass and unique situation in America of inflammation, insulin resistance, which then leads to devastating rates of obesity, you know, diabetes and et cetera. So that's the conversation we're fostering.

36:19It's been one year. I will say, you know, to voters, whether they supported President Trump, Bobby Kennedy or not, or wherever they are, I think we should be actually very excited where we are right now. I think so too. And I think one of the most important things that's happening is every single boardroom in America of a food company, frankly, of an agriculture company, you know, thinking about their inputs, of healthcare companies, they are all talking about chronic disease and they're talking about how they can steer their business models more towards longevity, prevention, addressing the root cause of disease.

36:55This is absolutely happening because I think whatever happens to this Maha movement in its current constitution and it needs to continue succeeding and it must and it deserves to. But this conversation is out of the box. And I think that's a real accomplishment and a historic accomplishment of President Trump and RFK. Yeah, those conversations happening are almost just as important or maybe more important than the work we do in a regulatory landscape. I mean the reality is the consumers that purchase products, food products in America have way more power than Callie and I do or the administration does when it comes to influencing corporate behavior.

37:36Gary Brecka:Right. And, you know, one thing I'll say about Maha in whatever form you want to call it, if you go back and look at successful societal movements, and I'm not equating Maha to the civil rights movement or woman suffrage, but if you look at things like that, they don't happen in one year. Right. They're a decade. Yeah. They're a generational movement. And the message almost gains more momentum after, you know, the movement has quote unquote ended. Yeah. I mean, think about the impact of Martin Luther King today, maybe even more impactful than, you know, during his lifetime. And I agree with you.

38:13Yeah, and one thing I will give President Trump and Secretary Kennedy a lot of credit for is that historically in D.C., there's been a view that if you can't get a benefit from an action within two years or four years, right, talking about elections, then it's kind of put on the back burner. Why do it if the benefit's in 10 years? So President Trump and Secretary Kennedy have embraced the Maha movement and these reforms, understanding that these things will take time. You might not see chronic disease rates dramatically fall off by this time next year. But if you look in 10 years at the movement and what it's done and where it's changed and where we've gone, you know, you'll see substantial benefits to children, to adults across this country when it comes to things like chronic disease rates.

38:57And so they've really bought into this thing that while this absolutely has two - and four-year wins and absolutely is a benefit to the American people in the short term, there's also a long tail on this, and there's going to be benefits for generations and decades. The Maha movement, it's absolutely correct, is an invitation by President Trump and RFK for a grand long-term nuanced conversation. We are talking about the foundations of the U.S. economy. The Maha argument, which everyone knows is true, is that this is not an issue of rejiggering Medicare, Medicaid reimbursement rates to solve what's happening to American health.

39:31There's something deeply cultural here. There's something spiritual. It's very multifaceted, and we've opened up that conversation. And listeners of your podcast, listeners of other great podcasts understand this is a very, very deep issue. And Secretary Kennedy and President Trump tap something very powerful in their conversations here.

39:49Gary Brecka:When we monitor, you know, media attention, because, you know, attention, in my opinion, is more important than capital, right? Because capital will follow attention. When we look at where audiences are paying attention to certain topics, this is in the top three to five. in category of top 25. I mean, there isn't a mom in America that isn't concerned about what's going into her child's body. There isn't, you know, a mother or father in America that isn't concerned about the life expectancy of their child being less, statistically speaking, than their own life expectancy. And there's this inherent, you know, desire, I think, in most people to leave the next generation better off than the generation that we found it.

40:33Gary Brecka:And I agree with you. You know, we don't even talk about the financial impact for our country by reducing the cost of chronic disease care and keeping people out of the system, for lack of better words, in mass, right? So they don't enter this system of over-medicalization and, you know, and adding to this burdensome snowball of health care. because, you know, 80, 85 % of these chronic diseases are entirely preventable, you know? It's interesting that it's called the Food and Drug Administration because the food leads to the drugs that lead to the expenses. And, you know, it's kind of this snowball effect and unwinding that ball of yarn.

41:16I think, you know, voters very often, in my opinion,

41:20Gary Brecka:want, you know, instant thing. You know, start the war, end the war. You know, we should be able to stop this and start this. And these movements don't turn that fast. So it's important for people to understand that the momentum is moving in the direction of the American people. The momentum is, and it's also important for people to understand that these processes that take time are designed that way intentionally, right? And so we have to go through a formal process that involves rulemaking, commenting, but that's designed to ensure it lasts. So that if in five years someone else says that was a terrible idea, you know, they've got to unwind it through a similar process.

42:00Right. Right. And so while these things do take time, they're designed to be that way legally through a framework to ensure that they can't just be reversed on the right on spot.

42:11Gary Brecka:Yeah. And so some of the frustration we hear, we get to your point. We're one year in, a little over one year in. Right. But this has a long tail on it. The Maha movement, I think, is one led by consumers. It's led by, obviously, President Trump and Secretary Kennedy have coalesced a significant amount of passion in this area. And I really think this is here for the long-term success. Yeah, I do too. I want to switch gears to another topic that's recently become very near and dear to my heart. We've had three babies in the ultimate human team. And 2025 was a very fertile year for us. I mean, like half my executive team is having babies.

42:52Gary Brecka:And, you know, as such, you know, they're concerned about, well, what am I putting into my baby's, you know, body? And most of them are sourcing their infant formulas from overseas. And not too long ago when you were here at the house and we were talking about some of the initiatives at the FDA, there wasn't the right time to talk about Operation Stork and what's going on with baby formula. But I wonder if we just speak to the moms across America now about what kind of initiatives are going on around Operation Stork and where do you see us going with foundational baby formula formulations? Well, infant formula is maybe the most important single food item that we regulated FDA.

43:41And it's regulated very tightly, closer to a drug than a food product in many respects, which is good, right? The reality is that infant formula is sole source nutrition for a number of infants, the only source of nutrition that they're getting. So you have to make sure they're getting the right amount of macro and micronutrients. You've got to make sure that these things are not contaminated. And so when you're giving something, a baby, one thing for however many months. In the most vulnerable time.

44:13Gary Brecka:The most vulnerable time. Developmental life cycle. You have to get it right. There's no room for error. And so we regulate infant formula really tightly. We also have not taken a hard look at the nutrients in infant formula in a long time. In fact, the last time FDA looked at nutrients in infant formula. So right now, there are 30 mandatory nutrients that must be an infant formula. 10 of those have maximum levels to prevent things like toxicity, certain vitamins, and iron, right? You don't want to have too much of those. So there's 10 of those 30 that have maximum levels. We are undertaking for the first time since 1998.

44:47And by the way, back in 98, when we did that, we didn't make any changes. So it's actually been longer since this has happened. So under Operation Historic Speed and President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's leadership here, we are looking to comprehensively assess and review the nutrient requirements in infant formula. We've already started that work. We put out a request for information last year. We got a ton of good information.

45:10Gary Brecka:Who do you put that request for information out to? So that goes out publicly. Anybody can provide information. Researchers. Researchers, moms, dads, caregivers, industry. Everybody can provide comments. We got a ton of comments on that. We're working with world-class experts. We're talking to other countries as part of the process. And so we're really excited about being able to, and we're going to have to do this through rulemaking. So what we do is we put out what's called an NPRM, a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. And that's sort of the process that FDA uses to put regulations in place. And so we ultimately want to, depending on where the evidence and science shows, update those nutrient standards for an infant formula in the U.S.

45:53to make them more modern. I mean, again, it's been over 30 years since there's been any changes to those. Now, we've added a couple of nutrients since that time, but we have not had a comprehensive assessment or review of the nutrient requirements in the open formula. So we're really excited about that. We think it's gonna be a game changer. We think that moms and dads, caregivers are really passionate about this. And it's one of the most important things that we can do at FDA under my tenure. And I'm really excited about doing that. But that's not all we're doing on Stork Speed. We've also engaged in comprehensive testing to look at things like PFAS, ballytes, any number of heavy metals, pesticides.

46:33And we're going to be releasing data on that in the near term.

46:36Gary Brecka:Really? Showing what we've found. And I will tell you, Gary, that we're in a pretty good spot. I mean, thankfully, the Infitformula market has come a long way in the past several years. And by and large— On its own, I guess. On its own. Okay. These are very tightly regulated products held to very high standards. FDA inspects the facilities every year. In fact, it's the only food facilities that we're in every single year. We have our own cadre of investigators that only do Invenformula work. And so we're in their facilities every single day, both foreign and domestic. And these companies are held to incredibly tight and sophisticated standards.

47:14And the good news is the testing we've done shows that these products are in good shape. The levels are low, much lower than – you look at EPA levels for things like bottled water or water levels for heavy metals. Overall, the infant formula supply in the United States when it comes to contamination levels is in a good spot. And we're really thankful for that. We didn't want to see bad levels. We wanted to see good levels and thankfully that's what we've seen. So we're going to be putting out data on that. We're also reassessing safety when it comes to microbiological contamination. So there's been a number of issues over, you know, going back to 2021, 2022 on chronobacter.

47:55That led to the supply chain, right? And that's where the 2022 shortage happened because of the chronobacter issues as well as COVID supply chain disruptions. So we've done a ton of work to ensure the stability of the market. We allowed importation, personal importation of foreign formulas. We also started a process to allow foreign companies to move into the U.S. And we've permitted 13 different formulas that were not previously allowed in the U.S. to now be lawfully sold in the U.S. market. Most of those from Europe, Australia, New Zealand.

48:28Gary Brecka:Are they coming here to manufacture formulations here? It's a mix. I would say most is not manufactured here. But you're still spot-checking those guys even though they're overseas. Okay. So if they're manufacturing in Australia, were on the ground in Australia at their facility. So they're held to the exact same standard as our domestic manufacturers here. And so we're going to tighten up and see what else we need to do when it comes to microbiological food safety as well. There was an issue earlier this year or late last year related to infant botulism. And so we're taking a really hard look at ingredients that could be subject to that to see if there's new procedures we might need to put in place from a manufacturing perspective.

49:04So formula is top of mind for us. We have an entire team here in D.C. doing that work daily. We have the cadre that's out in the field investigating daily. We're leaving no stone unturned to try to ensure the safety and nutrient stability of infant formula in the U.S.

49:24Gary Brecka:That is incredible. I think that this is the kind of messaging that drives the consumer support. And I think it also, you know, eventually this will be winning political. these will be winning political messages. These will show up at the ballot box when, you know, different political figures are running for office and they stand on the foundation of making America healthy again, making us as healthy as we possibly can, supporting some of these, you know, legislative changes. I think you're going to have consumer behavior and consumer spending driving from the bottom up. You'll have consumers widely aware of these things.

50:03Gary Brecka:I mean, seven million moms across America that are probably ecstatic about Operation Stork, you're going to have them start, you know, voting with their hearts. And I think that's where you get that final piece of change and a real movement that really makes long-lasting, that makes long-lasting change. What surprised you the most, Callie, when you joined HHS and you started this fight, what surprised you the most? Was it the lack of cooperation and the time that it takes to get things done and the support that you received? What, when you got inside the, you know, when you got behind the curtain, because, you know, going back to that, that podcast in your, in your book that you and your sister wrote, to me, it's the most apolitical common sense issue maybe to ever land in the political arena like there should be zero disagreement on this like who is taking the opposite side of that coin right um what what's what surprised me is how much frankly hate there is in in washington dc towards this administration towards president trump when i wrote that book and went on those podcasts casey and i had an expressly non-political and didn't think about this in political terms.

51:24I met with Nancy Pelosi. I met with progressive Democrats. I met with Republicans. Democrats were passing the book around. We were meeting with everyone. This was really exciting. We were going to red states, blue states, both sides were passing bills. And then President Trump started talking about these issues and Bobby Kennedy started talking about these issues on the campaign trail. and Kamala Harris did not talk about the issues. And then President Trump and Bobby Kennedy over hours and hours of conversations talked about how they had a historic opportunity to go down in history for reversing the childhood crisis crisis and bonded over that issue and united.

52:05So as somebody that cares about these issues, as my life's work, how can, and I think a lot of people felt this way, that was the side that is channeling this conversation which is inherently nonpolitical. The media has an absolute immune response to look at anything good and find the problem. Bobby Kennedy doesn't talk much about vaccines, quite frankly, but every single article is about vaccines. My sister has only talked about chronic disease every single podcast, 400 podcasts. In the last 100 articles about her, the words chronic disease don't appear. It's one offhanded comment on raw milk that she made.

52:43There's an amoeba that tries to focus and divide the American people, and that's fine. But the most surprising aspect to me, and I want to be clear, whether somebody watching supports President Trump doesn't support President Trump, you're right. This isn't political. But I am trying to drive political change and federal policy change. And what is demonstrably clear to me is that Democrats put their hatred of President Trump above these issues. I have reached out to Democratic staff and Democratic senators and did not receive one response. The people that were passing around my book and very passionate about these issues and friends with Bobby Kennedy in the past, they do not respond to us.

53:19The Democrats did nothing to help the food pyramid and flip that upside down. The Biden administration said that ultra-processed food was healthy. They were totally co-opted. They have not done a lot to help on these issues. We are begging them and we are hopeful. And I truly, this is good faith, we are asking them to work with us on some of these no-brainer 95 % issues. But the level of hatred, And a leading reporter, a friend of mine, a leading reporter told me this, that the culture in the media is that they want to destroy President Trump and Bobby Kennedy. And that goal is more important than children's health.

53:57They are actively – they actively see their job. The culture of the media is that these people need to be destroyed and they cannot get a win. And frankly, it's the culture of a lot of the government bureaucracy. I mean, there aren't that many political appointees that Bobby Kennedy and President Trump chose at HHS or the government. 95 % of the staff is entrenched career bureaucrats. A lot of them, quite frankly, think they're protecting science against President Trump and Bobby Kennedy, the Democrats. So this is all stuff I talked about before coming in. The weight of the division in the country is pronounced.

54:35and the weight, again, not pointing a finger at any individual one person, but the weight that the FDA regulates trillions of dollars of the U.S. economy, quite frankly, food, drugs, tobacco. I mean, it's actually unbelievable what Kyle and Marty McCary go up against, making daily decisions that impact market caps. It's all fine and good, but there's a lot of force there that wants to keep things the way they are. So we're up against a lot. It's not an excuse, not anything. I think it's frankly what everybody needs to understand. There's a unique rare moment where people voted in folks to go nudge this in a different direction.

55:12We have done so much in the past year. You really have. The food pyramid, the food dies, grass reform, school lunches, resetting the NIH to actually study food as medicine, study the root cause of disease. You just go down the list. Operation stroke speed. But there's so much left to do. And I really do think this group of insurgents at HHS, trying to push for reversing chronic disease is worth continuing.

55:36Gary Brecka:Yeah. And we're heading over to this announcement today at the hospital, which is just a phenomenally short timeframe from when my wife did this post to when we're hearing this announcement. But what can the folks that are listening to this podcast right now do if they wanna be, I don't wanna say a part of the movement because that makes it sound like they're part of some, you know, some political operation, which it's not. How can they support some of these changes? How can they support the Maha movement, the apolitical Maha movement? How can they get involved in helping you both with state regulatory or federal regulatory issues?

56:22Gary Brecka:Because, you know, I think very often people just say, well, I'm just one voice. You know, I'm just one vote. I'm just one call to a senator. Is there an activity that they could, If they're fired up about this and they go, you know what? This momentum has legs. I care about the future of our country and our children and my family. What can they do? You want to start, Gally? The first thing, as Kyle said, the market is all that matters and what individual decision. At the end of the day, we need to change. You know, people need to – it's personal responsibility. They need to choose different items that they buy.

56:58What our argument is, is personal responsibility isn't really the issue. The choices Americans are making are dramatically impacted by the recommendations and massive incentives that the government has instituted, which are very corrupt. It's not a full personal responsibility issue that 70 % of a child's diet is ultra-processed food, but that's 10 % in other countries. That comes from school lunch incentives, SNAP incentives, recommendations, the lack of oversight from the FDI in grass so we have more addictive chemicals in our food. So I think everyone should understand that we are fighting to change those incentives.

57:28but there is this awakening happening from the bottom up. And I just cannot, from being in the government, I cannot encourage people more to understand that the government has not had your back. There are tremendous forces that profit on sick addicted children. It is true. Nobody will dispute it. It's dark. And the most revolutionary thing everyone can do is really be conscious of what they're eating. Read your food labels. Try to eat minimally processed food. Think about where your food is sourced. I know it's tough for people out there. We're trying to put content out there about how cooking at home, you know, can actually be very affordable.

58:05These are basic things and continue on that track because that's what's really going to change the world. On the policy level, it is so important. A hundred calls on an issue actually make a huge difference. Most people don't pick up the calls. We have had 30 states do Maha bills on getting cell phones out of schools, improving school lunches, getting food dyes out of schools, snapped waivers on the soda. This has all happened because Maha moms, Maha supporters called their local legislators for these bipartisan bills. So I really do think finding state or federal issues, if there's various discussions on things like GRAS, call and say you support it.

58:45It does make a huge difference.

58:47Gary Brecka:Yeah, I think so too. You know, one final thing I wanna close out on is, You know, with a little of the momentum on our side, we know that, again, consumer spending is going to drive corporate behavior. How do you feel people can participate? Yeah, look, I think the reality is, one, more so than what Callie and I can do or the White House or the administration can do when it comes to changing regulations, changing the law. We know where Congress is. Not a lot's gotten done there. It is the day-to-day activities of consumers that will drive change in this country. And I would tell people, don't get discouraged.

59:34The movement takes time. We're a year in, 15 months in, whatever it is. It takes time to get things done. We're working day in and day out on these issues. The president cares about these issues. The administration cares about these issues. These issues are good for everyday Americans. These policies will help children stay healthier. It'll lower cost for Americans. Americans will feel better. They'll eat better. They'll put more money in their pocket. The Trump administration is absolutely committed to these issues across the board. And I think people just need to stay engaged in the process and understand how it works.

1:00:07You know, there was a bit of a euphoria moment, I think, when Secretary Kennedy endorsed President Trump and President Trump won in sort of a historic landslide election. And that momentum lasts, but it only lasts so long. And now you're coming up against a midterm election. And, you know, you hear the rumblings, but elections are often won on small margins. You know, right up the road in Boca Raton, I think the mayor up there just won as a race by like nine votes or maybe it was 12. But, you know, the reality is. No pregnant chads. Yeah. And so when it comes to engagement, every voice does matter.

1:00:46whether it's a letter, you know, you're voting, engaging in the public process, submitting comments to FDA, being vocal, all of those things matter. And the movement itself is one that grew out of sort of populist consumer voices wanting change. And I think we'll continue down that path.

1:01:07Gary Brecka:Guys, thank you so much for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast. There's so much more that I wanted to cover. We didn't have the time today, so I hope that you'll come back on. I want to talk about food deserts and some of the other things that come across our platform. But I hope that this is a shot in the arm for the American people to not only see that there's been real change and we have moved the ball a pretty good distance down the field. The fight is still on, but your voice really matters. Your phone calls, your letters, your participation really matters. And most importantly, where you're spending your dollars really drives the corporate behavior that drives the change.

1:01:44Gary Brecka:So thank you so much for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast. Thanks, Gary. Appreciate you both. And until next time, guys, that's just science.