418 - Should Your Veterinary Clinic Have an Angel Fund?

0:00Ten years ago, I thought people came to conferences for information. I was wrong. You can Google almost any answer in 30 seconds while hiding in a supply closet. What you can't Google is skill. Skill is having hard conversation when you're exhausted, short-staffed, and the person across from you is upset. And that only comes from practicing with people who will tell you the truth when you miss. That's what Uncharted is. On Friday, January 15th in Orlando, the day before VMX opens, we're celebrating 10 years with a one-day conference built around leaders practicing hard things together. You'll get Dr.

0:37Peter Weinstein, the Uncharted team, and about a dozen mic drop talks from people in the community, people you know like Dr. Phil Richmond and Dr. Caitlin DeWild. I'm not going to tell you it'll be easy because it won't. But if you want to do the work alongside people who get it, come and join us. details are at unchartedvet.com. Register today. Don't miss your chance. Welcome back to another episode of the Uncharted Veterinary Podcast. I am your host, Maria Preeta, and I am super pumped to bring you today's episode because it is a topic that is super near and dear to my heart, to most veterinary professionals' hearts, because we love our patients and it breaks our hearts when we cannot do what we need to do because finances are in the way.

1:20And so because we've almost all been in that situation, many of us have considered, should we start an angel fund to help our patients? And somebody submitted that exact mailbag, that one question, just should I start an angel fund in my clinic? And we don't know exactly what role they're in. We don't know anything about what they've already looked into, what they've started, but I thought it was such a wonderful question. And so I brought on Uncharted member Beth Mahaffey, who has started a nonprofit from since 2010. So she's got a wealth of experience and knowledge that I am just so excited to bring to this episode.

1:54The last time I saw Beth Mahaffey was actually in Orlando. I believe we were eating tacos at Kama's Tacos, and it was a wonderful time. If you want to see us and have tacos in Orlando, remember that registration for Uncharted 2027 is open already and we're celebrating big. It's our 10 year anniversary. So, you know, it's going to be super fun and you're going to get major FOMO if you don't register. So make sure to check out the link in the show notes and register for Uncharted 2027. And without further ado, let's get into this episode. And now the Uncharted podcast.

2:34you show up for pets every day it's because care is your calling and it's ours too we know it's what drives you to make a difference in the health and well-being of every pet that's because at zoetis hundreds of veterinarians are part of our team too working with you to provide science-backed medicines, technology, and practical support to help elevate your standard of care. Learn more at careisyourcalling.com. All right, we are back. I'm super pumped today because I have Beth Mahaffey here. She is an Uncharted member, which is actually where I think I first met you, Beth, is at Uncharted. One of my favorite things in the community is all of the wonderful people I get to meet.

3:19And Beth, you are an incredible Uncharted member because you are the co-founder of Penridge Animal Hospital, which is a privately multi-owned doctor practice in Pennsylvania, but you were also the founder and medical director at Harley's Haven Dog Rescue, which is actually the reason why I reached out to you. We got an incredible mailbag around kind of nonprofits and angel funds. And so one of the things that I also love about you is that you are a fantastic voice in the industry. You are one of the panelists on the Unfiltered Veterinary Discussions podcast, which is one of the areas in which you get to share all of this wealth of information that you've got.

3:53And so So I'm just super pumped. Obviously, I'm totally fangirling over you, Beth, because I just am such a fan of yours. But why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and the nonprofit you started before we jump in, because I think that that's kind of a crucial part to this episode today. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very excited to be here. And I fangirl over you, too. So in fairness, it's returned. So yeah, so as Maria said, I'm a veterinarian. I'm a practice owner. And actually, as far as origin story of my nonprofit, I started the rescue before I started my business. Interesting. So, yeah.

4:25So when I was practicing at another practice locally, we just sort of stumbled upon some dogs in need and just it just sort of spiraled from there and became a thing. So Harley's Haven is a 501 safe nonprofit, and we primarily rescue dogs, like take them from shelters or owner surrender situations. But we have also over the years sort of expanded to now do a bunch of community outreach and give back. So we do some free community programs where we provide vet care to like underserved areas, both locally. And then we've also done some international work. And then we also from there have created sort of a community fund that we use in our practice, too, which I'll talk about.

5:06And then we also have an angel fund that's associated with it that's specifically meant for our clients. so it kind of has evolved into having like so many facets so like originally it was just rescuing dogs and we've adopted out I think over 2 ,000 now over the years because we've been doing it since 2010 so it's been a long time labor of love but we also now do a bunch of community outreach and give back so I'm very excited to talk about this because I feel like there is so much that some veterinary practices could do that maybe feels out of reach but that you could start small and if you get your team invested, like I think it might actually be something that's like, we call it like a win-win-win at our practice because I feel like it helps the clients, it helps the pets, and it also like helps our veterinary team feel like they're able to help maybe some of those animals that otherwise wouldn't receive care.

5:56So that's kind of like our history in a nutshell. I love so much of what you just said because I also have always considered it a win-win-win in our practice as well. And I love that when people are kind of starting to think outside the box and thinking about bringing this into the practice. Because the reality of it all is that it is hard when people come in and they can't afford vet care, right? And you feel like your hands are completely tied. You feel like you can't help as much as you would want to help. And so having this kind of avenue really helps rally the team together around a common cause that directly affects their work and allows them to be able to, you know, have this other avenue in a way.

6:36And so I think that there's a lot of benefits to it. I think you're right, though. There's it's like you can start really small or you can dive right in. But there's a lot that's involved with it. And I love the mailbag that we got because it wasn't how do I start an angel fund? They said, should I start an angel fund? So it almost felt like the mailbag submitter knows like I can foresee this being a lot of work. And as somebody who started something similar in our practice, it is a ton of work, especially like the 501c3 portion of it all for tax purposes and nonprofit purposes. Like all of that took a lot of paperwork, a lot of legwork.

7:10And there's, I think, information involved that the average practice owner, practice manager, maybe is kind of afraid to look into because there is that legal or the tax purpose of it all. And so there are so many different ways to approach it. But I knew you'd be the perfect person for this because you've been doing it for so long and because you you were just such a natural advocate for it so i feel like your practice does and i follow you on instagram and i follow you guys on facebook as well so it's partially where i get some of my information but i see you guys not only just having the angel fund in your practice but you're continuously working through these events through these community outreach programs where you're just like it's a part of your culture it's a part of the overall like yearly thing it's not just a we take in the these donations and will pay off clients' invoices, you're kind of doing this thing in so many different ways.

7:58And so that's why I think you're going to be such a great person to ask some of these questions for. So if you don't mind, I got a lot of questions for you. I hope that's okay. I have some answers. All right. So I want to start just with, we always start with Headspace and I want to start kind of there a little bit, because as I stated, this is, the question was, should I start an angel fund? And for the people that are listening that are like, well, I want to know the how also, there's only so much information we can go over in 50 minutes. So if we need a part two, we can create a part two. But I did create a downloadable resource for this because I think when we're talking about creating a policy, there's a lot of questions that we need to answer around, you know, like who is going to be eligible, who is in charge of the selection, so many questions.

8:38I think I wrote down just literally dozens of questions in this workbook. So for anybody that's listening right now and they want to explore this a little bit further, that workbook is going to be available as a download to this episode. And so just go ahead and check out the show notes for that. And I'll talk a little bit more later on. But the reason why I started there is because I think that when we're starting to think about opening up an angel fund or starting a nonprofit, there's a big why in where we're starting. And I think that that's really important to first lay out for the team and for ourselves as the practice.

9:10And so I kind of wanted to start there with you. What has been the biggest benefit of having an angel fund or nonprofit, an area in which we can kind of address this need in the community. Where has that had the biggest benefit, whether it's been patient client or team impact? What have you seen in your practice? Yeah. So, I mean, I definitely think it has an impact on many, many levels, but for me personally, I think I've seen the biggest impact for team morale because there are times, so like I'll give an example. So there was this dog Shadow that came in like six months ago and she was a six-year-old dog with severe bladder stones like her whole bladder was full she was struggling to yearning she was painful and her very tearful very kind owners scheduled euthanasia that ended up being scheduling with me scheduled with me because they were like we can't watch our dogs suffer suffer anymore but we can afford the surgery and so I went into the room and I started talking to them and I was sort of like trying to feel the waters and I had already talked we'd already done the process to get her like approved sort of because I saw it was in the schedule I knew it was coming in and so i'll talk about what that looks like but i'd already done that so when i went in the room with the people you know the whole team my full team is very like my team is very empathetic and compassionate as a as i feel so many veterinary teams are in that bed what so i know that's like shocking but like as you can imagine my full team is like we put this dog to sleep like she's only six like everyone's like yeah crying and sad and like this is this shouldn't be a thing.

10:40And so because we have this program, I was able to go in and give them another option. And like when I tell you the impact that that has on my team, like being able to come out and be like, let's prep for a system, you guys, because shadow is getting a chance, like because we have this program. Like I had multiple technicians like tearing up, the people were crying, like because they were just so grateful, but they didn't know what else to do. And they truly had financial hardship and they just were like doing the best that they could to get by with their family they had been keeping her on the urinary food but they just could not save up the funds for because it's like a big surgery so like the impact that I see on my team is I think my personal biggest benefit to my practice there's tons of community goodwill and like those clients are now like clients for life they're like our biggest advocates like their dog is thriving she's doing wonderful like they're so so grateful but like to see that in my team and to have a lot of my team members be like I've never worked at a practice that would not put an animal to sleep that's fixable which I guess I just have to say like I'm kind of like that anyway like even before we had an angel fun like as soon as I opened my own practice like if there is an animal that there is a treatable condition that we can within reason treat and the people want to treat it but they can't afford it like I would never put an animal to sleep that's just kind of how I am like I will find a way I will take the loss I know this is controversial as a business owner sometimes but just for my morality like I would rather not make that money and save that life than make the money is kind of the way it looks and I don't want that to sound like I think people think the other way but I feel like I'm like a little bit on the like way extreme of that yeah but that is sort of the culture that I built in my team so we have this as an extension of a way to be able to offer that without it being lost to the hospital and still supporting the client and the patient and my team.

12:33Like I feel like it just it helps everyone. But the impact to my team has really been huge. No, I totally hear that. I feel like you mentioned two things that I think I saw in my practice as well. The first is the whole morale in general, because those cases are really hard and they do break our hearts. None of us went into veterinary medicine for the money. Like that's very obvious. But at the same time, I think we recognize that we do need the money in order to continue to help other patients. And so for a team that is constantly having to have that conversation, going over estimates, there is a sense of relief when you can not let the money be the only barrier to access to care.

13:09And so I think that that's huge from a morale standpoint, but also from a burnout standpoint, like an ethical dilemma that can really leave people with a bad feeling at the end of the day. And so they don't have to feel that way. And I totally hear you because that is very similar to how we started our angel fund and ended up eventually turning it into this nonprofit. And so for our practice, we were aha accredited. We were fear free. And so naturally our services, like high customer service, high touch, our services were not the cheapest in the area. And so we often had affluent clients who were just so super sweet.

13:47And because we had such a good relationship with them, they would say at the front desk, they would come up and they'd be like, hey, I just paid my bill. I would love to help somebody in need. Do you have somebody that I could pay off their account? And that's actually how it started was the client flat out asked us. And we were like, actually, not yet because we don't have a system in place. But let me figure something out and we'll get back to you, right? And so then we started asking, you know, upon whenever there was a client that was leaving with a balance on their account, for whatever reason, if they were willing to accept, you know, payments or gifts, not donations, because this is not a 501c3.

14:21And so I think that that's an important distinction there. And so at the time, that's kind of how it started. And it started very informally. And then it turned into a 501c3 as we started to approach these, you know, euthanasia cases that you're talking about, the ones where we really as a clinic, it's against our policy to euthanize this animal. And at the same time, if we just say no, we can't euthanize because, you know, there is a potentially treatable condition here, there's a very good chance that this client can leave and go to another clinic that will euthanize the patient. And so it's one of those things where I think for us, our internal policy was like, okay, well, if we're going to have a relinquishing option for these people who are willing to relinquish the patient, if they can't afford the treatment for something, what does that look like?

15:06And that's really when we started having these questions about, well, who's eligible and how do we decide and do we take the patient in? And that's kind of what ended up starting our 501c3, which at the time was the city's name and then angels after it. So it was the entire city that could potentially work through a foster-based rescue to try and give some hope to the animals that maybe perhaps didn't have the funds to be able to, especially when the people were so willing to euthanize, you know what I mean? Perfectly. And we saw wonderfully successful cases. I mean, And literally one of my favorite patients is one that my husband's grandparents actually adopted.

15:44And he was like super, super overweight cat, super sweet. He came in because he was urinating outside the litter box. He immediately was going to be a euthanasia conversation. And we did train our team on how to have this conversation because we always wanted them to try and come in for an appointment. And the person was very hesitant. They're like, I'm not paying for an exam. We're like, it's fine. Just come on in. they came in not willing to do an exam, not willing to do any diagnostics, just want to euthanize it. They said that the cat was a lot older than what he appeared to be. And so it was one of those things where it just wasn't sitting right with any of us.

16:16And we finally asked like, if relinquishing was an option over euthanasia, would you? And then the client was super open to it. He's like, yeah, I don't want to take care of this cat anymore. That's fine. And so this cat was severely overweight. It was covered in fleas. We had to do treatments for, we actually ended up testing for urinary, but the cat never urinated outside the litter box with us. So it was one of those situations where like, it was really tough because we didn't actually see any of the symptoms that the client had said. And so there was nothing for us to actually treat. We did lab work, lab work all came out fine.

16:50And we were only able to do this because we had the nonprofit and we had funds for this patient. We ended up saying he's got to lose weight before he's adoptable because at this weight, he is not healthy. So he ended up losing 10 pounds. We did a whole social media campaign to get him adopted. It was like the biggest loser campaign. It was really fun. And then eventually, because my husband had been coming with me to take care of him so much, he convinced his grandparents to adopt him and they got to know him, fell in love with him. This is like a cat dog. I still get to see him. He's still around.

17:20I mean, it's been so long, but it's one of those things that it just makes us feel so much better that this patient was able to have a second chance. And it's only because of the nonprofit or the work that we did to kind of get us there in the first place. But it all kind of started from an idea. And so that being said, I do want to put a disclaimer here because I think that when it becomes difficult is that once you start holding or soliciting money, there can be additional legal accounting requirements here depending on your jurisdiction, especially your state, because you are now holding on to money.

17:53And so if you're taking informal payments and paying it off into an account and you have a system for that, that's known as a gift and it's like payment into an account and people have to know the receiving party has to know what's going on and the giving party has to know what's going on. And so you do need a system for those things. And then there is the actual going through of creating a nonprofit, which is what you did. And now when you have a nonprofit or a 401c3, and we're talking about in the US, you can call them donations and you can take tax deductible donations. And so it makes things a little bit easier and different from that standpoint.

18:26So that's what I wanna ask you, what part of creating the nonprofit or going through that legal process was maybe harder than you had expected or easier than you had expected? What was that process like for you? Yeah, I think it actually ends up being more intimidating thinking about doing it than when you actually do it. And like my biggest piece of advice is just surround yourself with people that know what the frick they're doing. So like we have a really excellent accountant and a really excellent lawyer. So when we were starting the nonprofit, we reached out to our accountant and our lawyer, and we're like, what does this look like?

19:01And how do we file this paperwork? So I leaned pretty heavily on them, and they helped to really do most of the heavy lifting. Like I provided the information, the background information, you know, they helped us create like a board and do all the things that go into creating the nonprofit. But I actually feel like it was easier than I thought it was going to be like I was very intimidated by what the process looks like but to be honest with you I think if you have a prayer a pretty straightforward vision of like what you want to do and especially if people are looking at doing this for the sole purpose of creating some sort of angel fund like it's very straightforward and I think if you just get some you know you can't do it yourself but I personally would rather pay someone not it wasn't an exorbitant amount either But I would rather pay someone that's going to do it like definitely properly than me try to do it by myself and potentially mess it up.

19:55So for me, the process was really not that bad. Now, it does take a little while. Like I think it was like a couple months between when we like filed and then they sent some stuff back and then we had to file additional things. And like you have to open a bank account. Like there's like a bunch of steps. But they locked me through it. They were like, here's a checklist of the things you need to do. So I think if you have someone in your corner that believes in what you're doing and if you already own a business or work at a business, they're going to have a lawyer and an accountant. So I feel like that's a really useful resource that's already right there that you can talk to those people and they should be able to either do it for you, help you with it or guide you to someone that can do it to get like all your ducks in a row for the legal side of it.

20:35Yeah. I love that you called that out because the only reason ours took as long as it did is because we, for so long, were trying to do it on our own. And there were so many questions and there were so many steps and there were so many pieces involved that we finally gave up and we're like, let's just pay somebody to do this. And then it got so much easier. And so I totally agree with you. You can absolutely do it on your own. The paperwork is all available. Maybe even with AI now, it can help you a little bit. I'm not really sure. I've not looked into it. I would not use AI as my legal counsel.

21:05No. And always have everything, yeah, put through our CPA and our attorneys, especially because laws change throughout states and throughout countries. And so there's all of that to keep in mind. To me, not only is it peace of mind, but it does help you get there faster. and keep in mind too that even with a professional helping you, it can still take months because you are opening an account because you are creating, you know, the, the pieces for the administration, the, the, the application on its own can take weeks to come back. But then there's also the background administration, which is like creating a website and creating the application and, you know, trying to make sure we have our, we had a whole protocol book specifically for the rescue versus for the clinic.

21:44And so I think all of that does take administrative work that I did not foresee early on. And so one of my questions to you is, once you had the nonprofit going and like started, how much would work would you say you put into it weekly now versus when you first started it? Like, what does that commitment look like? Would you say? Yeah, so I'll give the two part answer. Because I think if it like my rescues, it takes up a fair amount of my time. So I had an administrator who recently moved on to another position. And so when she was in the role of doing a lot of the administrative work, my piece of it was much smaller.

22:31Like I probably would only spend maybe a couple hours a week on some of the things to do with the dogs that were adoptable or more if we're in the middle of planning an event or like a community event or something like that, then it might be a couple weeks of a lot more time. But I also have a pretty large scale operation. Like I usually have 15 to 20 adoptable dogs at any one time. I'm the medical director, so I do all of their vet care. I communicate with all of those foster homes. I help oversee all the paperwork. And, you know, I have teams that do different parts of the adoption process, but I still kind of have my hands in it a little just to make sure everything is okay.

23:08So for me right now, it's probably more time than I should be spending. I should probably be spending a little bit more time on my for-profit business. Yeah. But, you know, it's a balance. But in the average day and time, or if I was looking to do like a smaller scale, just angel fund sort of a situation, I feel like realistically, you wouldn't need to commit more than one or two hours a week to that. Like, especially if you got some processes in place and you had protocols in place for how you choose what animals you're helping, like ultimately that doesn't end up being that huge of a burden or a commitment.

23:45And if your team is on board, which I think is one of the key pieces of doing something like this, that your team believes in it, they will want to help. And then your team members can be some of the people that are doing some of the administrative tasks for it too. Yeah, I totally agree. I will say ours, because it was the Angel Fund and also the Rescue, similar situation where the more patients that we had under foster or under rescue, the more work that it was because we were overseeing more cases. And so I remember at one point we had like four different cats. And at that point it became a good like six to eight hours a week, you know, of just taking care of some of the paperwork, some of the process.

24:26But when we're talking about the actual angel fund itself, I would say probably only like two to three hours a week, maybe, and just making sure that everything's working properly, making sure that the social media is constantly out there trying to gather the donations. A lot of stuff you can automate and just kind of set to schedule and go. And so for that, I would say similar for me, it was like when the rescue was high up and there was a lot to do with it, I was volunteering easily six to eight hours. When it was just the nonprofit, easily only maybe a couple hours a week. But it is something to consider.

25:02You do You still need somebody to run it. I'm glad you had an administrative person to do it. If this is a practice owner who's already working like 60 hours a week that submitted the should I start the angel one? I don't I think you might you might not be in the right space to do it. Yeah, I have to realize that you're doing what I'm doing right now. I'm working on shuttling off and putting more people in place because it's it's like arguably a little bit much right now. But it's because of the whole adoption component. it like that's really the part that is more a labor of love and takes up a lot of time the angel fund portion the community fund portion that's like that comes in waves when we have big events there'll be more time committed but on the weekly basis that's pretty small but now if someone wants to submit a question about why i think having your own rescue at your practice is a huge benefit i could talk about that for days oh man be careful people will submit that they'll submit it and now we're going to have to do a part two, part three.

25:58I kind of knew it. This is such a big topic, honestly. Honestly, it really is. There's so much to it. And I think you're so right. It's like, I forgot that there's times when there are like fundraising events. Like we used to have this one big fundraising event that was in this big park. And during that time, it would probably be a lot more administrative time because we were all focusing on the event and so many different pieces of it. So it's going to like, it's going to waver, I guess. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Like there's going to be ebbs and flows to it. Is there anything else that this person should consider before we get into some deep action steps?

26:30Anything else this person should consider from a headspace perspective? I think they definitely need to make sure that they have team buy-in because I think making sure that your team believes in doing an angel fund, that when you're creating the protocols and the steps that everyone agrees with what it looks like to keep it fair, because which I'm sure as we talk about action steps, like the fairness part of it I think is big and that you're that everybody believes in it because I think if you have one or two team members that don't think it's a good idea or have kind of a negative attitude about it of like why are we helping these people but not these people and not like having the right headspace about it I think that could really negatively impact the benefit of it in multiple ways so I feel like it's something that the culture of your practice has to embrace and everybody has to believe in it And then also so that you're making sure all of your clients or whoever you're trying to help in the community has access to it.

27:29Because if there's only one or two people that are advocating for it and the rest of your team is not, then only the clients that come in contact with the people who believe in the program are going to be the ones that truly have access to it. So I think it's important that the whole team talks about it, has meetings about it, make sure everyone is on board for what does this look like? Why are we doing it? How do we choose people? Do we all agree that this is fair? What does that look like before you set it up? Because otherwise I feel like that becomes really challenging then to make sure that it's doing what you intend if not everyone is approaching it from the same way.

28:06Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That is such a good point. Do you want to take a break right here and then we'll come back? Awesome. you believe that uncharted is turning 10 that's right uncharted vennary conference is celebrating 10 years and you're gonna want to be there it is happening on january 15th 2027 and registration is open right now uncharted vet.com hope to see you there all right so i feel like there was a ton of great information here as far as the headspace for starting an angel fund and things to consider before we actually start it. So now, Beth, if a practice decides that they do want to start an angel fund, how should it decide what kind of structure makes sense?

28:48Like, what do you think is the best approach? You kind of started telling us a little bit about getting the team involved, but what does that actually look like from an action steps perspective? Yeah. I mean, I think if I was starting from the very beginning, because mine was sort of unconventional that we like kind of had the rescue before the business. Yeah. And then we had the rescue for a really long time before we layer in the community events. And then we layered in the angel fund more formally. But for a while, we had a kind of insumnal angel fund at my practice, which was similar to like what you were describing where a couple of clients were like, I just want to donate to someone in need.

29:21Like I want you to take this money or call me when someone can't pay their bill. And so that, like you said, you have to make sure that everyone knows it's a gift. You should definitely get advice from your accountant on how to handle that money and what that looks like. But that's a really easy way to start if you want to do like really small potatoes, like just have a little bit and you have a couple generous clients. Like I feel like that's easy enough. But if you want to do like the more formal 501c3, we really want to make an impact and we want to really do it right. Or we want to be able to like advocate to our clients to get donations.

29:54I feel like you got to start top down. Like the owner of the practice needs to believe in it, then the practice manager, then the leaders and then the whole team. So I feel like it needs to start from the top with conversations of like, what does this look like? How are we collecting funds? Who's involved? What's the structure? And like hash that all out as far as who the key players are going to be. so that way when you get to the point where you're truly talking it out with your team, you kind of already have a game plan of like what this could look like and then take next steps as far as actually talking to your accountant and your lawyer and putting the ball rolling for like getting the actual legal requirements done.

30:34Yeah, I love it so much. The piece here that I think is super crucial is that you're starting from the top and bringing it down because in those practices where there is already an informal system, I think we can use that to our advantage, right? Like, hey, there's already this informal system. You know, there could be a liability here if we don't do this properly. Like, we can look into it. And so it kind of gives you a stepping stone to get there. But obviously, the practice owner does have to be on board. We don't know if this was a practice manager. We don't know if it was a technician who submitted this.

31:05The practice owner is always going to have to be on board because at the end of the day, it is their business, their risk sometimes. when they're kind of starting these things. Usually though, you do have to create a committee and it has to have a board of directors. Like a nonprofit is not owned by one individual. And so that is something to consider as well is as you're starting it, who in the practice would wanna be on that board? Or it can't even, doesn't always have to be everybody in the practice. And oftentimes your lawyer, your accountant will suggest that it's not everybody tied to your practice.

31:35So thinking about that, if you are gonna go the formal way and you're gonna start these conversations, know that you are going to need a committee and you can lean on, you know, people in the community that have helped you or even those clients that have started the informal, you know, process in your practice, if they're willing to be on the board, if you have that good of a relationship with them. But there is a lot to think about as you're starting it. So I think trying to figure out what that looks like in your practice, because there's also, I mean, I guess this is a good point. We should, this is a good point where we can clarify some of the differences, but an angel fund really describes what you're trying to accomplish.

32:12It doesn't really tell us what we're doing there. And so I think that's probably one of the most important pieces is, are you going to create a nonprofit? Is this going to be an informal process? Or can you use an existing third-party nonprofit? The one that comes to mind is MyBalto or Veterinary Care Foundation. So all of those guys are third party. You don't even have to necessarily start your own. You do have to work with them and there's a process and they'll explain all of that to you. But even if you are a member of AVMA, the American Veterinary Medical Association, there's also a grant, the REACH program through them, which I'll put the links in the show notes.

32:47And that will also help you to help a client that's in need. And it's a small grant, but I feel like every, if I remember it correctly, it's every veterinarian that is a member of AVMA can apply for it. So say you've got five veterinarians, each one of them can apply for it. And that's, you know, up to a certain amount. And so there are other ways to accomplish it, I think, other than starting your own nonprofit. However, the other ones are a little bit more limiting in different areas. Like I said, there's limits to the grants. And, you know, if you're doing a third party, you're using their rules.

33:20But I do think that, you know, knowing all of that, there's it's not as scary as it seems. That's what I was just going to say. And if you have someone that already has something established, just to get your feet wet with it, even that might be something that's easier to say, okay, we're going to try this with this established program and follow the rules. And they just help us with fundraising and then are involved in case selection. But then if that's going really well and you get more confident about it, then you could always revisit, do we do something on our own completely too? Yeah, I love that.

33:51It's such a good way to get your feet wet. It's such a good way to kind of start to see the process and get good ideas. like a lot of them will do the whole round your change up. So it's like automatically integrated where you can round the change of your veterinary practice in to help it. And so you get ideas from it, is I guess what I was trying to say. So let me ask you this real quick. Why did you create your own nonprofit instead of using a third party program? Did they not exist at the time? Because they could have not been around. Yeah, they definitely didn't exist. I don't think they existed at the time.

34:20And like, honestly, the way, even when we started like the more official, like angel fund at the practice like I think I I knew they existed but because we already had the 501c3 it just made more sense to just kind of create our own protocol within the program that already existed for that specific subset of it but way back when I started Harley's Haven like I really don't think they were around 2010 I'm aging myself here that it was back then that I started the rescue so and we just sort of like people found two dogs in a field and we were like we can adopt these dogs out it just sort of like spiraled from there but I knew I always wanted to do a rescue so it wasn't too far out of the realm but yeah I don't think they were around so for me it was just there was no other choice but I think yeah I think if I was doing it again now and I had like a really solid team who really wanted to help I think I would do the 501c3 thing again But if it was just me and I didn't have a solid team or I didn't have a leadership team that was totally on board and I just wanted to see what some of the options are, I think looking into some of those companies that already exist that could maybe allow you to get your feet wet with it is a really, really great option too.

35:35I was thinking the same exact thing. I was like, the only reason why I would have done a third party is if I didn't have such a team that was willing to be involved in the process, because it's so much more helpful to be able to raise the funds to be able to know that it's there to get the cheerleaders from the inside. But if I'm like, I don't really have my team on board and I don't really have the bandwidth, like I don't have the administrative help to help me with any of this. That's when I think the third party really comes in handy. If you're like, no, I want this to be long term. I want to be able to do more with it.

36:08Kind of like you, Beth, where you were like, I'm going to do a rescue. I'm going to do an angel fund. I'm going to do community events. Like, I think that's when you need to consider, okay, this can be a bigger thing. That's a 501c3. So I think that's kind of how I would start thinking about making those decisions. how did you decide who was going to be on your board like when you started looking into the paperwork for all that yeah so it was mostly my friends and people people who just had a similar similar thought process to like wanting to do rescue and help so like the very first few people was someone I'd worked at with at a previous practice where she at that practice sort of informally rescued dogs.

36:50So that's actually how I got my Harley, who the rescue was named for, was through that practice when I was like in college. And so there were like two people from that practice who we were all sort of the ones that were into saving dogs when we could. And then at the practice I was working at, there was like two other people who were both really into it. So the five of us, like, we just kind of got together and we're like, okay, this is a thing I think we should do. And what does that look like? And so in the beginning, like, looking back, kind of like probably we should have done more before we were just like giving people dogs because like we didn't have anything like it was before we had a 501c3 we were just sort of like these dogs were bound let's just find them a home and then these people want them okay they're your dog now and then we really didn't have a lot of paperwork but yeah so I feel like it was just like-minded people who were in and around the practice I worked at is like yeah it was a good people to start and like sometimes even like our accountant was not on our board but he was a board advisor right in the beginning when we first got it going and I feel like that can be really helpful to make sure that you have like an outside voice and not just like the people in your practice but even if you I think legally you need like four people to do it so if it's just four people at your practice who are all into it I feel like that's enough to get you going and then you can always like layer in other people as you start getting volunteers or creating a name in the community and then more people want to help.

38:17Yeah. It's definitely not hard to find people who want to help animals, I think. You know what I mean? That's the one benefit is that we have unlimited resources, I think, both between the team, between clients that have been super wonderful that have started. And then in general, I think you're right. A lot of them were veterinary professionals that my practice owner knew from other areas. And so it was just part of his network of trusted individuals. And that's how we ended up picking our board members. There are people who will, you know, get together with other 501c3s. Like what we did was we contacted one of the rescues that we worked closely with.

38:53And we basically explained to them what was going on. We were like, hey, we know that you guys can't always because we had a good relationship with multiple rescues. And that's kind of whenever there was relinquishment, we would, you know, contact all of our rescue partners and be like, all right, this is the situation that we've got. But then once we were ready to start our own, they became a great resource advisors for us in, this is the kind of application and this is what you have to have in the state of Illinois, you know, because there's requirements to some of those, like even like, you know, stuff as little as like, they can't be adopted unless they're spayed or neutered first, you know, stuff like that, that we have to always consider and know about before we get into it.

39:28And so, and that's more for the rescue part than an angel fund, but still stuff like that, I had no idea. And so I needed my advisors. And that's where the other people that had established rescues already were able to come in and help me with creating an application and finding out how to do this or finding out how to do that. And so I think that was super beneficial in our area. So as far as action steps go here, you've found your board members, you've decided to start an nonprofit, you decided to start an angel fund, you're going to do it in house, it's not going to be a third party. And you're kind of in a situation where you've got your board members, Where do you go from here?

40:03Is this now where you start creating your website and start taking in donations? And if so, who on your board members did you have kind of doing that part? How did you set expectations between all of them as far as their roles go? Yeah, so I think, you know, early on with those first few meetings, like kind of everyone helped with everything while we were trying to get things established. And then it sort of naturally became certain people did certain things. So, you know, like there was one person who was kind of the treasurer and she helped oversee like where the donations went, how they went into the account, managing our funds and what does that look like.

40:40And then one person who sort of more naturally became kind of the marketing person who worked with our website guy to build a website. And you can even build very simple websites on your own, too, if you don't have the money to put into it. Like there's some really nice programs that you can use to build like a pretty simple website just to get yourself started. Like, I feel like you don't need to go crazy right from the beginning. It could be very simple. And so we each kind of naturally sort of fell into the areas that we either felt more strongly about or had the time to do at the time. So I feel like it almost like kind of naturally starts to happen.

41:14Like, I tend to be a lot of the marketing because you know what else ever wants to be in videos, which I'm sure you've seen if you follow our social media. Like, it's mostly me. Like, even at the practice. And that's just because everyone else is like, oh, no, no, I will do the paperwork. I will rescue the dogs. But I do not want to be on the camera. Yeah. But that honestly, just to speak to marketing for a second, I think if you are honest and genuine in what you want to do and you tell people why you're doing it and you explain, like people will want to help you. Like if you're coming from a genuine place of, hey, I'm a veterinarian.

41:52I see a need. I want to fill it. Like people will want to help. and they will want to donate. So I think just putting yourself out there and being brave enough to start asking, I think is important as a distinction of like just a way to market because people I think get intimidated by the marketing. Like how do I ask people for money and how do I not alienate my clients that they're like, I'm coming in and paying full price and like some other person is going to come in and get to pay zero dollars. And like, that's tough from like a business standpoint. Like, I think you have to, sorry, I'm sidebarring a little bit, but I feel I feel like you have to take that into account because I think that's one of the things that I was always afraid of.

42:32And I was always genuinely impressed that I have, knock on wood, really never had to deal with my clients getting angry because I think having a separate entity is important and also clearly explaining why we're doing this thing. Like we're trying to save animals that would otherwise be put to sleep. Like this is specifically for those situations. And I've always said to all of my clients, like, if you need help, we will help you. We will figure it out. We will come up with an answer. So I think because our clients kind of know that we will always help them too should they need it, that makes them more willing and able to potentially donate to someone who is more in need or more in a dire situation than perhaps they are.

43:18But I feel like that's one of the big hurdles that people are afraid to do it is what it looks like. to your clients. Yeah. I love it so much because there's these pieces to it that I think people don't consider. And that's a big one, right? Is how are you going to put this messaging out there so that you don't get these clients that feel like, oh, why do they get to pay less or, you know, and I have to pay more. And then also it kind of goes back down to why you need those guidelines so much of like, well, who is eligible? Because if you were to tell clients, well, you know, we do proof of income in order to meet eligibility, that's a totally different situation because, you know, the client that does make, you know, above the threshold is going to be like, oh, well, then I'm not eligible.

44:00And it's just like, well, yes, obviously. And so I think that helps answer some of those questions. And I had gotten some really good advice from somebody who started a nonprofit in a different country in Nicaragua. And the way that he started it is he was just like, honestly, Maria, I have a vision for what I want to build. And then I start promoting it and people start donating money to help me build that. And it kind of goes back to when we first started our nonprofit. Once we had like the paperwork and stuff, we didn't have a website right away, but we did have a Facebook page and we started putting on there, like we're now taking donations to be able to start our website.

44:34This will help us take more donations regularly. It'll help us to be able to put animals, you know, up that are available for adoption. And it'll help us to be able to share the stories of the angel fund that, you know, helps, who helps the angel fund and the the community kind of rallied behind it and they're like how many and we had like this bar meter where we were collecting to meet with that for that but it was for us to get as a website and so it was not a whole lot of money but you know like people get excited about that stuff and then they see the website and they're like great now i can donate for your next thing right maybe now you want to build a special condo for the cats that all the cat lovers can come together and you know donate or have an event for and so i think sometimes too It is about reaching out in a way that you're like, hey, this is our community and we're tired of seeing this and we're going to do something about it.

45:19And you can help us if you'd like. And most of us are willing to help. Like, I know I help my community. I'm sure you do, too. And so I think that's such a good point. Is there anything that you would do differently now that you have established for so long? Honestly, I don't think so. Because I feel like the way that my story sort of evolved, like, fits with where I was at each phase of my life and my career. Like, I think when I was doing the rescue, it would have been hard to get that off the ground while I was building a practice. And then by the time I had a practice, the rescue was kind of established.

45:52And then once I was establishing the practice, the rescue was coasting. And then once the practice was established, we were like, OK, now I feel like we can start doing community events. We do all these like free vaccine clinics and stuff. And I was in a place where then I could take that on. And then, you know, we always had sort of the informal angel fund, but like doing a more formal community fund and angel fund for people directly coming here for vet care. Really, we just added in the last like two years, like a more formal thing. We were always informally doing it through the rescue, tons of stuff.

46:22But like having them come to us for vet care, like I feel like it kind of evolved to that point. So I don't know if I would do it differently. I mean, I think if I was advising someone else, I think how much I do is very overwhelming. But I think if you were going to start something, like I think starting with an angel fund makes a lot of sense, depending on what your goals are. Like my goals were always like save all the puppies, which is still honestly my goal. Yeah. But I think that if there is someone whose goal is like help my community, like in a more niche way, that like that angel fund is a really, really good way to just start with that.

47:01But in my instance, no, I don't think I would change it. I think my journey has been a good one. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for being here, Beth. I really enjoyed this conversation so much. If anyone has follow up questions for Beth Mahaffey, feel free to let us know because we will totally do a part two to this episode. I think when we come back to the mailbag here, should you start an angel fund? Hopefully now you have a better idea of whether your answer is yes or no, or maybe not yet, even totally fine. Overall, if your answer is yes, feel free to go download the angel fund planning workbook, which is going to be available in the show notes.

47:34It's just got a bunch of questions for you to start asking and answering as you start to go through this process. As always, always, we always recommend that you consult your own attorney or CPA where appropriate because requirements can vary by jurisdiction and structure depending on what you're trying to do and as always if you want to hear more from Beth Mahaffey Beth let us know where they can find you yeah so I am just personally on Instagram and Facebook I don't have like a like a professional page but you're welcome to follow me if you want to hear me tell really terrible jokes to my son and watch me play with dogs and my my animal hospital Penn Ridge Animal Hospital is very active on social media, so you're welcome to follow me there.

48:16And then I do speak on the Unfiltered Veterinary Discussions podcast, which you can find on pretty much all of the platforms. And we do just a very informal podcast where we literally pick a topic, hit record, and then that's it. There's like no editing. We just talk about it and see where the conversation goes. So that's a really fun podcast as well. If you want to check one out, that's about veterinary medicine and all things business and life. There's a few uncharted members on that panel because it's Phil Richmond, who is an Uncharted member, and Jenny Jordan. I know it's Uncharted. And then I don't think Peter Weinstein is, but he is well known in the veterinary industry when it comes to practice management.

48:52So definitely I'll put some links in the show notes for that podcast. And like I said, if you have any further questions, you want to know more about this, feel free to let us know in the show notes, in the comments, and send us an email, message Beth online on Instagram. Happy to help. Save more puppies. or come down chart at 2027 right like we'll be there and then you can beat me in the flat there you go even better thank you so much i'll catch you all next time bye and that's it that's what we got thank you so much for joining us thank you to beth mahaffey for sharing all of that wisdom with us i genuinely love talking to beth so much she has such a heart such a passion for what she does and i feel like she is helping so many people both through her rescue and through this episode.

49:37So thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode or even have more questions regarding this topic, feel free to leave us a review where you listen to your podcast. Send us an email at podcast at unchartedvent.com or just send us a message on social media. We genuinely love to hear from you. It makes our entire team's day and it helps make this podcast great. It's honestly why this podcast has been so successful because it's your podcast because you submit the mailbags and I genuinely love to hear from you. So don't be a stranger. Send us an email, send us a comment, send us a review, and we'll catch you next time.

50:13A brand new course is now available from the Uncharted Veterinary Conference team. Don't Get Sued is an on-demand eight-module course that we've created in partnership with HR expert Debbie Hill to help you answer the question, why do veterinary practices get sued in the first place, and what can I do to protect my team? This course is available now for$2.99 and is free for Uncharted members. You can find out more now at unchartedvet.com.