424 - Career Paths for Veterinary Technicians

0:00Jennifer Katchadourian: Hey everybody, I am Dr. Andy Roark and this is the Uncharted podcast. Guys, I got a great one today. It is National Veterinary Technician Week and this is a fantastic episode, especially for veterinary technicians. We are talking to four, count them, one, two, three, four registered veterinary technicians. They all work at Hills Pet Nutrition right now and they have all had very different career paths. They all do wildly different things inside of Hills Pet Nutrition. I think that this is an outstanding collection. of veterinary technician leaders who have experienced very different things in this industry.

0:36Jennifer Katchadourian: One of the things that people most commonly ask about technicians is what can you do with technician credentials? And the answer is you can do a lot. And so I am really proud of this episode. I am glad to show you guys the diversity of the paths that are out there for veterinary technicians. I love talking to these incredible technicians about lessons learned, about the things that they wish they knew earlier on, how they made their decisions to change what they were doing in medicine, how they decided to leave the clinic and what precipitated that, how exactly they left the clinic. All that stuff is in this episode.

1:07Jennifer Katchadourian: I think you guys are going to enjoy it. Super big thanks to Hills Pet Nutrition for making this episode possible. Guys, if you are a technician and you want to sharpen your skills and improve your game, do not forget about the Hills Veterinary Academy. It's the online learning portal that Hills has for everybody, body, but there's a ton of stuff there for technicians. Also, Hills has got a online live webinar this week called how to become a veterinary technician specialist. You can run down the details. I'll link it up here in the show notes. Gang, let's get into this episode.

1:41Erin Richmond: And now the Uncharted podcast.

1:49Jennifer Katchadourian: And we are back. It's me, Dr. Andy Rourke. and boy, I have got a surprise for you guys today. I have a panel of veterinary technician rock stars who have done wildly different things in their career. And I'm having this group on today because it's Veterinary Technician Week in case you haven't heard. And that's a big deal for me. I like to make sure that we highlight technicians and I never want technicians to leave our profession. I think that there are lots of different pathways that people can walk down when they have their technician certification. and I don't think that those pathways get enough light shown on them.

2:24Jennifer Katchadourian: And so I want to talk to people who have been successful in this industry. They are certified veterinary technicians, all of them, and they have done radically different things with their degrees and they have tried a lot of different things. And I want to kind of walk through those because one of the most common questions that I get asked is, Andy, what can you actually do with a veterinary technician certification? And so I want to unpack that. So let's go around the room real quick. And I want to lay out my four guests here. Anna Springer, RVT. Why don't you tell me about yourself?

2:52Dr. Andy Roark: Hi, my name is Anna Springer, and I have been in the veterinary world since 2008. I started out in clinic. I worked there for about 16 years before coming on to Hills in the veterinary consultation team, and I've moved roles since then. But I'm really passionate about the credentialed technician. I'm excited about their mental health and well-being, as well as our mental health well-being as a profession.

3:19Jennifer Katchadourian: Jennifer Katchadorian, our VT, why don't you introduce yourself?

3:23Misty Tobyne: Hello. So Jennifer Katchadorian, I graduated technician school in 1995. So I've been doing this a long time. I have 16 years of clinical practice, part of that being a practice manager. Then I actually started at Hills in academic affairs as a technician educator. I did that for a couple of years. And then for the last 15 years, I have been out in the field doing field sales as a territory manager.

3:50Jennifer Katchadourian: Erin Richmond, RVT.

3:52Erin Richmond: Yes, I'm Erin Richmond. I've been in the pet care industry for 15 years. 12 of those years have been in research. I've been with Hills for nine years and I've been in my current role since April. I am a regulatory affairs specialist now and I work in packaging compliance team. And I started off as an animal care and research technician. I did that for eight years working with our animals and I really enjoyed that work. I really want to be an RVT advocate here at the PNC, our pet care center at the research facility, and I'm a big supporter in helping technicians expand in their career.

4:30Jennifer Katchadourian: Misty Tobine RVT.

4:32Anna Springer: Hi, I'm Misty. I have been with Hills for 23 years now. I started off at the Pet Nutrition Center as an animal care and research technician and then moved over into cells. So I have a little bit of cells background, just very teeny tiny bit. And then before that, after that, actually, I moved to the vet consultation services where I took phone calls and did consultations and education. And then I have been in my current role as a PBA coordinator for the past three years, where I helped the professional veterinary affairs coordinator. So I helped the field with all of their needs and everything that they need.

5:08Anna Springer: Outstanding.

5:09Jennifer Katchadourian: Let's just go ahead and get started. Raise your hand if you are currently doing what you thought you would be doing when you graduated from tech school. There are no hands, only shaking heads. Well, cool. So let me just start with a premise that I have, and I want you guys to either agree with this or tell me that I'm wrong. I think that technicians see their RVT, LVT, CVT as a terminal degree. and I think that there's a general idea that life for a technician ends in practice. Do you guys agree or has that changed? Are people more progressive in their ideas about where they can go and how they can use that degree?

5:48Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, I think that when I went to school to become credentialed, I thought that it was going to earn me a little bit more money in clinic. It wasn't until I had reached near burnout status that I really had to prioritize my career longevity. And that's when I began getting really curious about where my credentials could take me.

6:12Anna Springer: I agree with you. I spent a very short time in clinic just while I was finishing up school and then immediately went into industry. So I think it's getting better where people can see, you know, what their options are as far as what they can do with their degree. But at the very beginning, I think you get very tunnel minded and you can only see I'm in the clinic. I'm working with animals. This is the end for me. But because I didn't have a lot of that while I was in clinic and went immediately to industry, I feel like I knew from the get go what was available because I always had just worked for Hills Pet Nutrition.

6:45Jennifer Katchadourian: Well, Misty, why did you make that transition? So what was it you went into practice for a short period of time and you're immediately leaving? I'm looking for insight here in sort of the decision process and making that jump. But what motivated you to go quickly?

6:55Anna Springer: I went because I heard of this magical place in Kansas called the Pet Nutrition Center. And they were looking to fill the place with veterinary technicians. They had research animals that needed to be taken care of. And they wanted to be able to say, all these animals are taken care of by credential technicians. And I just had graduated. I had nothing to lose and was ready to get out and go on my own. So I moved to Kansas.

7:24Jennifer Katchadourian: At some point, all of you were in practice, you were working, and then you became aware of an opportunity. So, Missy, you mentioned this already. Who told you about this?

7:30Anna Springer: My instructor from technician school actually knew a recruiter from Hills Pet Nutrition. So I think that there was some fillers that were put out, and that's how I became aware of the job. So I think Hills Pet Nutrition reached out to vet tech schools to let them know that they were hiring, and that's how I found out about it was while I was actually in school.

7:50Jennifer Katchadourian: Anna, I want to ask you the same question. Dr.

7:52Dr. Andy Roark: Google referred me to find out what was available. I knew that. What did you look for? I'm in Kansas City. So there are quite a few pharmaceutical companies here. I kind of drew an hour circle around Kansas City and went searching. And I didn't just narrow it down to industry either. I was thinking about becoming maybe a traveling ultracenographer or a traveling technician that can also be a pet sitter and go in and be like a medical pet sitter. So I was really being curious about what I could do, whether it was an own small business or getting into industry. So I kind of was just Googling around options for technicians and then Hills popped up and I really went hard for that.

8:36Dr. Andy Roark: I researched all I could about Hills to get my foot in the door here because I knew how amazing a company this is.

8:42Jennifer Katchadourian: Jennifer, you were in practice and then you decided to move on and try some different things. What opened that door for you?

8:47Misty Tobyne: A few things. So I initially was going to be a veterinarian. So I became a technician first because I wanted to get clinical experience. And I discovered that what I thought a veterinarian was and did was actually what a technician did in terms of patient care and just the interactions and the support that we give in hospital. I kind of took the scenic route through college. And when I finally got my bachelor's, I decided at that point, because I had been in practice so long, that I didn't feel like I wanted to go to vet school anymore. But I was very passionate about the veterinary technician industry.

9:22Misty Tobyne: And I wanted to support, give back, continue. But I actually knew. So two other technicians and a veterinarian that I have worked with in practice have also worked in Hill. So I knew people that said, hey, I think this would be a fantastic opportunity. And they pulled me through the academic affairs education route first. And then I found my way over to the sales side. But it was colleagues that brought me in. Erin, how about you?

9:49Erin Richmond: It was colleagues as well. Like, I always heard of Hills and I knew they were close by, but I didn't truly know what was available around here. But then once I saw the job posting, I was like, I'm going to give this a try. And it really worked out for my career.

10:03Jennifer Katchadourian: Jennifer, your background is in technician education, and that's something that you are passionate about in growing technicians. When you think about how your career has kind of gone and changed, my question for you first is, how do you feel about the opportunities for technician education now compared to like 10, 15 years ago? Do you feel like we're moving in a positive direction? And the other thing is, I would say, if you were interested in having career opportunities, If you thought maybe clinical practice wasn't where you wanted to be in the future, what would you be thinking in terms of your own education development in that regard?

10:37Misty Tobyne: It really depends. Being that I was in technician education and I fostered many students, I was always very passionate about an RVT with a bachelor's can take you anywhere. You can go into the laboratory. You can go into the zoo. You can go into pharmaceuticals, do nutrition like I do. So I sort of had my eye on that. How do I match what someone's passions are and continue to foster technicians, right? Let's keep people technicians because I feel like we do lose a lot and we need people doing that job in all of these different capacities. So I always really tried to highlight the breadth of what could be done as a technician.

11:22Jennifer Katchadourian: Give our industry a letter grade, like an A plus, a B minus, something like that, for educational opportunities for technicians right now.

11:31Misty Tobyne: I would give it a C. A C. And that's because it varies so much on what school you go to, what demographic area you're in. There are some areas which are very focused and the students come out feeling like, hey, I can do anything and know about these opportunities. But I feel like so many come out just feeling like they're going to be a technician the rest of their life. And that's the end. And they don't understand what's available. So I think we have a lot to work on.

12:02Jennifer Katchadourian: Erin, if you could go back to the beginning of your career as a technician and you could get training, education skills in an area that you didn't have, what would you go back and try to acquire?

12:12Erin Richmond: I always wanted to go further into ultrasound. That was my original. I wanted to go work for a specialty. Very nice. But then I pivoted to research.

12:21Jennifer Katchadourian: You're like, if I could go back, I would have gotten that ultrasound. Yeah. Misty, if you could go back to the very beginning and say, hey, look, you might want to pick up some extra courses or some extra learning in this area. What would you point at?

12:32Anna Springer: Either business or marketing. Because I think that those two are heavily dependent on how things work in today's world. So I think that you can find a job anywhere with those two degrees.

12:43Jennifer Katchadourian: Anna, what would you focus on?

12:44Dr. Andy Roark: I echo what Misty said. I think having a business mindset or a business education really can, whether you're in clinic or in industry, money is what keeps us here. So if we can keep a business healthy, the skills that a business degree give you is really invaluable, whether in clinic or industry.

13:05Jennifer Katchadourian: I love that. I think that was largely an unheard of mindset, not long in the past, of technicians focusing on business acumen and business savvy. I think you're absolutely right. I think as the world is changing, it's become more and more valuable. Jennifer, what would you go back and focus on?

13:19Misty Tobyne: Yeah, I would echo that because being that I have done this for so long and I did not have a business background, that's not what I did in school. What I did in school has fostered me greatly for communications and presentations and that aspect of what I do now. But I had to learn business on the job. So if you want to transition as a technician into industry, having the business marketing background is critical, I think.

13:46Jennifer Katchadourian: Erin, your background is in research and you also do regulatory work. And I have to say, I think for a lot of people, that sounds really intimidating. Like the idea that you would come out, you would get an RVT and then you would go into research and then you would go into doing these other things. What does that really look like in the technician role? What was involved in research and how difficult was it for you to transition from clinical practice and doing that kind of work?

14:07Erin Richmond: Yeah, I never saw myself going this direction in my career, I thought I was going to retire in clinic. But then I start at the clinic, I was doing clinical research there, clinical trials. And that's what opened the door to research. And that's what expanded my mind. Then I saw Hills Pet Nutrition jumped here, started helping running studies on the ground floor, working with the animals. And then I decided to go back to school. I just started worrying, what do I do when I can't crawl over the floor anymore? The job is very physical, even though I loved it. I had to think of longevity. And I just started job shadowing like crazy around hills.

14:42Erin Richmond: I wanted to know what was available for an RVT. And I just landed on regulatory. I really enjoy it. I get to more use my knowledge and veterinary nutrition. I have to stare at our packaging and analyze it. I help regulate what goes on the packaging. So I stare at the nutrition facts box, our ingredient statement, our guaranteed analysis, things like that. My RVT really helped grow in this role, my good foundation.

15:10Jennifer Katchadourian: Whenever I see people who have really sort of grown in their careers or they have gone on and done new things, it often seems like they've had a good mentor along the way. Somebody has either come along and either been a terrible mentor, which has motivated them to do very different things, or has been a great mentor to bring them along, ruling out the terrible mentor for a second. And let me put that to the floor here. Did any of you have a strong mentor in your journey? And if so, what did that look like? What does a good mentor to bring a younger technician along look like?

15:39Dr. Andy Roark: I had a great mentor colleague when I first got into clinic. She was unapologetically herself. She really held herself accountable and she held others accountable to what was the right thing to do. She didn't ever give any formal advice. It was really just kind of how she lived. She advocated for her time off. She held strong boundaries and just stayed true to who she was. And when I was starting out, I was too young and cocky to really understand how to apply. I couldn't monkey see, monkey do, you know. Really, it has taken years to polish those skills and be able to say, okay, this is what she did.

16:22Dr. Andy Roark: And this is how I can kind of manifest that in my own career. So while she wasn't like, I'm your mentor, and this is what we're sitting down to do. It was really just her living her advice through how she handled herself.

16:36Jennifer Katchadourian: What do you think is the biggest pitfall in technicians trying out new things? There's always concern about moving into new roles or trying new things or stretching or growing. Are there mistakes that you see technicians make? They don't have to be early career technicians, but are there mistakes that you see people make as they stretch, as they try to pivot and transform their careers?

16:56Erin Richmond: I think jumping before knowing what they're getting themselves into or what they're walking away from as well. What does that look like? I mean, for me, jumping to research, I was like, OK, I'm still touching an animal every day. That was the big thing I wanted at first when I was making a huge leap from practice. But I have seen RVTs leave the industry just because they need money or they don't know they're walking away with other opportunities out there.

17:22Anna Springer: Walking away and being afraid of what you're leaving behind and not sure it's the right decision. When I left research to go into sales, I thought, I am not a salesperson. I'm not going to be able to sell myself out of a wet paper bag. I don't think this is the best idea, but 10 years in research and you get burnout and you're afraid you're not going to physically be able to keep up with the job anymore. You know in your heart that you have to try something different and just hope that it's the right decision. But being afraid of what you're leaving behind is very true because a lot of times we're not unhappy in what we're doing.

18:02Anna Springer: Like we're happy or I was happy when I left. Every job that I have ever left here at Hills, I've never left because I was unhappy. It was just time to try something different. And that's always just very scary.

18:16Jennifer Katchadourian: I was talking to a veterinarian last week, and they said that their mentor told them that you should really plan to reinvent yourself every seven years. And he was like, you know, every seven years, you should find something new. And this is as a veterinarian, this did not mean necessarily leaving practice, but it was you should find a new procedure that you want to work on or a new skill or something that you want to lean into for yourself. And so he had decided a couple of years ago, it was his seven year time. And he was like, I'm going to get into orthopedics. And now he does a ton of that work.

18:45Jennifer Katchadourian: And so, Misty, listening to you about that, you know, it was time for the next thing. I think that makes sense.

18:52Dr. Andy Roark: I think that having curiosity is something that we lose as we mature. I have to make it a discipline to be curious about something, not necessarily my job itself, but where could this take me or what is my manager curious about and why? And I think that technicians kind of get complacent or they can if they are perfecting their skills, if they think that they know everything they are and that they can do with their hands in clinic. That curiosity kind of goes away unless you unless you're really committed to wondering what else there could be. So I think curiosity is a great human skill that we've kind of lost as we grew up.

19:37Dr. Andy Roark: And maybe I'm using we as the royal we, but I lost and I had to kind of practice again.

19:42Jennifer Katchadourian: No, I think you're spot on. I was reading this book about, you know, how to have a, I think it's called How to Have a Meaningful Life. And one of the things that they really harped on was the focus on curiosity and then the focus on what they call availability, which is going, I can do that. Yeah, like if there's an opportunity there, I could try that. And so it's being curious and being available. And so I think you're spot on. Have any of you ever thought, I wish I could go back to practice or I should have stayed in practice? Does that thought ever come up? And if so, when do you have that thought?

20:18Jennifer Katchadourian: Lots of shaking hands. I love this job.

20:22Dr. Andy Roark: I love this job so much. When I got out of practice, I went to veterinary consultation service. So it was taking my hands off the pets, which I know I missed. I do miss that tremendously, not getting to come home covered in fur every day. I do miss that. But it was a good segue because I was still talking to veterinarians and clinic staff about the pets they were seeing. so I could still by proxy be in the clinic a little bit and not have to deal with the angry client that couldn't afford the diagnostics or the angry cat. So it was a good segue out of clinic for me.

21:00Erin Richmond: I feel like I had been there, done that, and it was fulfilling and I'd like to leave it that way. Yes.

21:05Jennifer Katchadourian: It had its time and now I'm going to put that down. Okay, so when I hear you guys talk and I hear you talking about moving into a role where you're supporting, but you're outside the practice and things, part of that thing in my mind goes, If you're not in the practice and you're not putting your hands on the pad, how do you stay clinically sharp? Because you're all obviously very knowledgeable. You're very accomplished. You clearly know your stuff backwards and forwards. Talk to me about sort of the learning mindset and like how do you when you move into a role that's sort of supporting the practice and you're not on the floor of the pads, how do you feel confident?

21:37Jennifer Katchadourian: How do you keep that sort of that sharp edge in your clinical knowledge?

21:41Erin Richmond: I say CE and I love talking to technicians. I'm always going down where the animals are and talking to the technicians and keeping current with things.

21:50Misty Tobyne: Absolutely. Continuing education and definitely because I have brought a wealth of knowledge to all of the clinics that I see, being a field sales, a territory manager, you know, I am in well over 100 clinics on a monthly basis. And so I have doctors asking me, how do I use the tools in the toolbox? And I have to be able to answer them. So I take it upon myself to know the background backwards and forwards so that I have those answers on the tip of my tongue.

22:21Jennifer Katchadourian: Do you enjoy looking at the diversity of practices? Do you walk in and go?

22:28Misty Tobyne: Those moments exist. But I would say, by and large, everyone, depending, no matter what demographics you're looking at, the size of the clinic, the education of the staff, right? They are all there for the same reason. and that is patient care. And I mean, to some degree, human care, right? Because we are supporting and helping humans while we're helping these animals, right? So these are all very caring people. I think all of them really bring something to the table.

22:57Jennifer Katchadourian: I'm going to reach into my bag here, and I'm going to pull out my crystal ball, and I'm going to pass it around. And I want you guys to look into the crystal ball, and I want you to tell me where you see the veterinary technician profession. In five years, let's say five years, which seems like eternity given how fast things are moving. But when you look at it and you're looking at technicians in five years, what do you see? Anna, I'm going to start with you and pass you the crystal ball. What do you see for technicians in five years?

23:26Dr. Andy Roark: In the next five years, I am extremely hopeful that all 50 states can have credentialing as well as title protection. not just credentialing, but couple it with title protection, because data has shown that when you have title protection, the people want to stay in the profession. So credential technicians would stay in the profession. It also will give the credentialed technician confidence to be able to utilize their skills to the fullness of their education. So it's a long process. It's kind of tedious. My work with the AVMA and the Committee for Advancing Veterinary Technicians and Technologists has shown me that it is a slow process to get the states to do this, to open up their scope of practice laws.

24:17Dr. Andy Roark: But I hope that five years, there's only a handful left, but I hope that we can all be on board.

24:23Jennifer Katchadourian: Outstanding. Jennifer, what do you see in the crystal ball?

24:26Misty Tobyne: She went exactly where my brain went first, which was standardization. People, both technicians and the public need to understand what a technician is. If you say I'm a registered nurse, you know exactly what that is, what that means. I don't like the fact that we are now interchangeably using technician and nurse. I think we need to pick one and stick with it. I think they both bring good things to the table. But we as technicians actually do a little bit more than a lot of registered nurses do. And so I would like a technician license to reflect that. And when people hear technician, that comes to mind immediately, that understanding.

25:08Misty Tobyne: And to her point, I think more technicians would stay in the industry if that existed. Because I know personally, that was part of the reason I left. I felt a little degraded, undervalued, demeaned even a lot of times, especially when there are states when a technician is somebody who has no medical background, no formal training. When you apply that to that situation, it kind of takes the wind out of your sail.

25:35Erin Richmond: I fully agree. We need to standardize this profession. And it's everyone has, are you licensed? Are you registered? There's, I mean, it would be nice to make it all bun. And as somebody said the title, they know exactly what that means. I definitely feel there's a groan for respect for technicians. I still walk into vet hospitals and I do see sometimes technicians being underutilized, but I do see some places where I see full potential. They're utilizing their RVT to the full potential. And I'd like to see that continue to grow.

26:12Jennifer Katchadourian: Misty, how about you?

26:13Anna Springer: I'm going to say in the next five years with AI technology and technicians as they start to partner, I think that we're going to start to see a lot more reactivity, more than just being able to be more proactive and reactive together. We're going to be able to catch more before or they're full-blown into kidney disease, or with the wearable technology and the technology that's going into the microbiome. I just think it's going to be a full-blown technology. It's going to be on the forefront of technology. Power door technicians, I think we're going to be able to help a lot of animals quicker than we have in the past.

26:51Jennifer Katchadourian: I'm going to take a peek as well. I think AI is going to help lift some of the administrative burden that I think has been placed on technicians away. and I think that you're going to see more and more wellness care being done by technicians. I'm a perpetual optimist. I think that people are going to recognize the value of technicians in delivering care and especially around wellness care. I'd like to see techs having more autonomy to get care done within their credentialing and I'd like to see them doing less administrative stuff and more hands-on nursing care that is rewarding and that makes the pets better.

27:21Jennifer Katchadourian: So that's what I'm looking for. I want to wrap up here. It's tech week. Let's hand out some presents to the technicians out there. I want to go around one more time and I want each of you to give a present to the technicians listening, a word of advice, a word of encouragement, something that you want them to remember, anything like that. And so I will open the floor here and when you've got one, you can step forward and hand out a present.

27:45Misty Tobyne: Don't be afraid to apply for that job.

27:47Jennifer Katchadourian: I love it.

27:47Misty Tobyne: Take care of your mental health and your mental well-being. That's something that is not talked about a lot, but you can't give care if you don't care for yourself first. So take care of you.

27:59Jennifer Katchadourian: That's great.

28:00Dr. Andy Roark: I know that I've said curiosity a lot, so it's kind of the theme that I'm going with. But I would give the gift of permission to be curious and wonder where your credentials can take you. And I would say give yourself some grace.

28:16Anna Springer: You don't have to know everything right at the beginning. We always have that feeling of imposter syndrome. If you do take the jump and take the position that you're not sure about or something that you're not in your comfort zone about, you don't have to know everything from the get go. Not that day one. Just take a deep breath and allow yourself the grace to learn.

28:37Jennifer Katchadourian: That's fantastic advice. What a lovely gift. I think that's a great place to leave it. Thank you all for being here. Thanks for talking about your journey. Guys, thanks for tuning in and listening, everybody. I hope this was inspiring. I hope it was motivating. I hope it leaves you with some curiosity about what you might do and where you might go yourself. So anyway, take care, everybody. We'll talk to you later on. And that's what I got. Guys, thanks for being here. Thanks again to Hills Pet Nutrition for making this episode possible. Thanks to all of our technicians who gave their time to be here.

29:05Jennifer Katchadourian: If you are a technician, I hope you got something out of this. I hope, regardless of who you are, that you found some inspiration and some motivation to stay curious, to explore the options that you have in your career, to not settle for where you are, to imagine what the future could be like if you decided to approach medicine differently and in a different role. I think we should always be learning. We should always be growing. I really love my friend's story about his mentor who said that we should reinvent ourselves every seven years. I think that speaks to me a lot. So anyway, guys, thanks for being here.

29:35Jennifer Katchadourian: Take care of yourselves, everybody. I'll talk to you later on.