151. How to Find the RIGHT Business Idea for You

0:00Coming up with a business idea is hard enough, but feeling confident in your idea is another level of business savviness that can take your startup to the next level. Today's guest is here to help you find your niche and make the most out of any idea. This is Ryan Atkinson, and you're listening to the Outfit Podcast, where we uncover how great businesses are built and the secrets to replicating their success. I am so, so, so excited for today's episode with Jeremy Lasarius. He is the co-founder of Verify. He is here to break down finding your successful business idea and the most important steps as an entrepreneur to get that business idea off the ground.

0:30Jeremy, so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you so, so much for being here. Likewise, really excited to be here. You are gonna be great. we're talking about it. I'm very bullish on this conversation. And your entrepreneurial journey started at a young age. And we're talking six years old when you started your first lemonade stand. And people might be thinking, oh my God, lemonade stand. I did that too. But no, you did a$7 ,000 plus by mid-summer when you're six years old. Let's talk about this lemonade stand, actually. Can you wind us back to six-year-old Jeremy getting this lemonade stand off the ground?

0:56Sure. I love talking about this. It's a really great story. So my father owned a detail shop And I was like really, really hyped about helping him. I would clean cars and do all sorts of odds and ends jobs. I used to make paper flowers for his customers and spray them with cologne and sell them for 25 cents. Like I think they early on indoctrinated me into being an entrepreneur, even in the crib. I was in a stroller at multi-level marketing meetings while my parents were being driven down this path of like, you know, buy low and sell high. It's actually my siblings would tell you my first words were like buy low, sell high.

1:29That's a true story. So this lemonade stand was, I saw these building blocks on a commercial. They were like Tinker toys, but life size. And I wanted to make this, I don't know, lemonade stand. And my father was like, Hey, I'm going to borrow you the money. You're going to pay me back with interest. We're going to go get all the materials. I didn't know what he was talking about. I just wanted to put lemonade. They had just invested in a, like a copy machine, which back then was like, it was a big deal to have one. And so I made copies on a blue piece of paper, had handwritten out this really horrible menu of lemonade and something.

2:00Across the street, there was a big construction site, which is now a big housing area, and there was a car wash across the street. So where we were, I would just go over there and, you know, hey, buy my lemonade. And it went from lemonade to getting a microwave, hot dogs, hamburgers. Then I got a grill and a pizza oven and it started stacking up. And I was outpacing the local hot dog place and they actually called the health department on me. So that's why I got shut down. I got to learn entrepreneur, you know, 101. I also got to learn like regulatory and compliance right away. So it was a unique journey.

2:35I made some money and I took a hundred percent of that money. And my father's like, what are you going to invest in next? What's the next thing? I didn't have any ideas, but I bought an arcade, a big standup arcade and put it in the shop thinking all these kids would comment. I was my only customer. So So it went from real success to quick failure in a matter of a year. It was awesome. A really great experience. But it was just kind of the beginning journey, immediately trying to figure out, okay, and also I had to pay him back. And I was like, wait a second, that's my money. He's like, yeah, plus you have to pay interest.

3:04And Uncle Sam, like, we don't have any, I don't have an uncle named Sam. So I think that was the early kickoff to me being a serial entrepreneur. Yeah. And like ever since, like being a serial entrepreneur is correct. Like you've exited like eight different companies. You're working at another company now. But you really got started with FurnitureStock.com, which you started in 2002 and then sold in 2005. I'd love to talk about FurnitureStock and kind of what led up to FurnitureStock in that moment and how you thought of this business idea. So I'm the king of side hustle. I always had a job. I always had a really good job.

3:33Really early, really young. Took on sales roles and sales management roles. So I think I always had some kind of side hustle, side thing. And I had bought some furniture from a guy. and he was like, I work at this manufacturing firm and it's just across the street from where you're working. Why don't you come and take a look? And I was like, you could buy a whole leather living room set for 500 bucks. And he's like, well, we make it in China. It's not 100 % like the front's leather, but the back isn't leather. It's called the leather match. And I was like, okay, I could sell this. So I remember getting a catalog and showing friends and family and people like, okay, I'll order this, I'll order that.

4:07And on the weekends, I go rent a rider truck and throw one of my friends in the back and like, hey, you want to make some money this weekend? let's go deliver all these orders, go to the manufacturer, pick it up. I didn't have a warehouse yet and made a ton of money doing it. You know, I'd make 10,$12 ,000. And I was like, wow, built a website, which, you know, if you go look at way back machine, you'll see. I love way back machine. Oh my God. It's so embarrassing. You know, I was learning to code. So I was using very, very rudimentary tools. And at the time, Dreamweaver started to become a thing.

4:35So I was like developing these pages and putting up the site. It turned into a real business. I started selling on eBay. And back then that was a big deal to be able to move a lot of product. But I was getting crushed. I was getting crushed by credit card fees. I was learning that you have to have a warehouse and it was a good experience. The company was a horrible failure. The exit was a necessity more than it was a positive. It was, I just couldn't maintain or hold it up anymore. And I think in general, the company that acquired it wanted to just shut it down because they were a local furniture store that we were just decimating them because we didn't need the margin that they had.

5:09It was a one man show. So, so I think the exit was there and then they just turned it off and wrote off into the sunset. But I think for me, it was a good experience to learn where I fit in the mechanics of building those companies and how to roll them out. Then that was an early e-commerce company. I mean, online furniture wasn't really a thing. So I was kind of getting involved in these categories that weren't really there. And it helped me learn how to identify what businesses fit for me for the next turn. And so, you know, along the way, I identified a gap of credit card processing. I identified a gap of e-commerce applications.

5:46I built an e-commerce development company because I had learned how to effectively create an e-commerce company up from scratch. So, I mean, all of these things were crafted from either the successes or failures or gaps that I identified along the way. And so, as I went from one venture to the next, people would say they're just super random. So if you look at them, like, you know, marine technology and one is alternative medicine and one. So I was in so many different facets and concepts. Most of them were just things that I saw needed to be filled. Right. So I identified it either for myself personally or as a consumer of that service.

6:24And I was like, I can do a better job. Yeah. I want to talk about that as well, because I think it's super interesting that you have been in so many different industries. Furniture, I don't know if you're passionate about furniture, but you identified a gap in the market and took advantage of that. Can you talk in depth about a common thread through the eight businesses that you've built and how you've identified those opportunities to build a company? Because I want to paint the picture for people that are listening. They're like, okay, I want to start a business, but how do I identify those gaps?

6:49What are some things that you did to identify those gaps? I mean, the thing is they identify them every day. I think you naturally go, how come no one's doing that? You say it out loud all the time. You're working on something and you're like, hey, I need something that connects QuickBooks to automate, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, OK, it's out there and you start seeing somebody doing it, but they're not doing it right. You can do it better. You know, that's how a lot of these things came about. Right. In my early entrepreneurial life, it was and I talk about this a lot on every podcast I've been on.

7:17It was survivalist mentality. I was just worried about money. I didn't care what business it was. I didn't care if there was passion behind it. I didn't care if there was a mission. All I cared about was, can it turn a profit? Can I make money doing it? And as I had success, small ones, and you talk about furniturestock.com as my first company. I probably had 25 before that were just absolute horrible failures. So you have to just go for it, right? Because people will get analysis paralysis, what's perfect and what's going to be exact, what is going to make me the most. That's not how you get this off the ground.

7:53You get it off the ground, you got to do some research. You got to do some homework. You do have to think from the end result of what you're building. And unfortunately, there's plenty of industries where people invest so much time and effort and energy and then five years into it or seven years into it, they're committed. This isn't a dating game. This is a marriage. And now they're stuck in it and they can't get out of it because they didn't think through what their lifestyle was going to be like or how the recurring revenue is going to work or what real money was attached to it and everybody's looking for a magic bullet, but there isn't one, right?

8:25You have to get started, get into the middle of it to really learn what those are about. And you know, you get blinded by the excitement along the way and everything looks like a massive opportunity until you're in the meat of it. And then you're like, this is a lot of work. It takes a lot of people. There's a lot of tech or cost structure around it. There's a lot of regulatory or compliance hurdles that you have to jump over. And so you really start to learn, is this really for me? I just want to take a minute and ask you, our listeners, how we can help you get started on your entrepreneurial journey.

8:52What are you struggling with? Why haven't you started your own business or begun investing in real estate? I'd love to know what challenges you're facing and how our team at Uplip can help. Email me directly at podcast at Uplip.com. And I promise to read every single email. We'll get back to you guys on that, but email us with any questions that you have around entrepreneurship. I want to ask about that, that end result, because I think that's always like a good thing when you're developing goals of like, when this is all said and done, like what should my lifestyle look like? And of course, like you said, there's regulatory things.

9:18Are you a project base? Are you monthly recurring revenue? There's a lot of things to consider with a business and there are stressors with any lever that you pull when it comes to business. But what are two or three questions you should ask yourself when thinking about that end result about what type of company should I build and what should that lifestyle look like? Yeah, that's a tough one because I say this a lot. Every deal is like a snowflake. I think everybody's going to be different, right? So there's no one size fits all for every person. For me, if I could just go back and talk to myself years ago, I probably wouldn't have listened.

9:47So that would be the first problem. I was too passionate and too head down. I'm right, you're wrong. One is having advisory upfront to help craft your direction. So invest in that upfront. I didn't do that. I thought I had all the answers. It turned out to be a much more expensive education for me to learn through failure, but be prepared for that. You should expect to fail. And the more you get good at failing, the faster you're going to get to the thing that you want to be. So you got to go into it, head down. Don't expect failure, right? Don't be like, well, this is going to fail, but I'm just going to go for it anyway.

10:26That's not what I mean. Just be prepared for it, right? So that's the first thing is you got to get thick skin. The thicker the skin, the better this becomes, right? So stress, dealing with stress, managing stress is probably more important than coming up with the idea. I agree. So I do have some questions that I ask myself in terms of the business. And that's today. So years ago when it was about money, I didn't care about these things. Today, I do care about how am I going to be involved in this business long term, right? Is this something I want to be known for or operate? and who are the most successful people in those roles in that venture in similarly sized companies or industry peers?

11:09Does that fit exactly the persona and work and I guess, and work product that I want to be involved in? And does that align with the lifestyle that I want to live every day? So you got to kind of map out what that looks like, right? So I get up early. I like to go, you know, I meditate, I go to the gym, I cold plunge. This is my mornings today. I go down to the beach every morning or I go swimming. Sounds amazing. It's great. This is all before eight o 'clock for most people. I mean, for me, I'm up at 5.30, six o 'clock. I go through my routine. And by the time most people wake up, I'm sitting at my desk already, you know, halfway into the day.

11:44So does that fit? I like to travel. Can I do this remotely? Can I take calls remotely? Where am I going to travel? Can I do this 12 hours ahead? So I know this sounds ridiculous because you're just trying to start a business. Yes. So these are a lot of big considerations that you have when you have some success and you have the ability to do that. But I still think people should take the time and just spend some time on what is the lifestyle that this business may afford me or not afford me. You are going to burn through a ton of hard work. So those people who think they can drain their company day one and that's going to immediately have a today lifestyle, there's no such thing.

12:23There are definitely unicorns and I'm sure there's a lot of false profits of people out there telling you that they have a magic bullet that you can just run a faceless YouTube and make$400 ,000 a month and blah, blah, blah. It's not real. It takes time, effort, energy to build these types of things. Don't get me wrong. There are definitely lottery ticket winners every day, but it's not realistic. And if everybody could do it, they'd all be doing it. So it's more important to, like I said, having good advisory or advice to direct you down the right path as you have to make those decisions. So who are the advisors around you that you can tap on for those types of things?

12:59And then being able to identify the alignment with your lifestyle and how that would really impact you on a day to day. And that could be financially or, you know, lifestyle or whatever it might be. And then I think the third one is how fast, how fast can you go? The sooner people get started into something, the faster they decide whether it is or isn't a fit. So I hate, you know, ready, fire, aim. Yeah. But that's kind of where most successful businesses land. Yep. I want to hit on the second point real quick before I hit on that third point. When you're thinking about like your lifestyle, I think it's really important to do that because like some businesses that we've had on here, they need to be in person like oyster farm.

13:34I mean, that's someone that was an oyster farmer. Phenomenal episode. I love that episode, but like he needs to be in person for that versus someone that's like an agency owner that can basically do their job around the world. So it's thinking about travel for me is also like very big. So it's thinking about like, can I do this remotely? Can I not do this remotely? And like aligning the business there. And that third point, I always say on this episode, the difference between an entrepreneur and like a wannabe from Uber is like the entrepreneur took action. And like you said, it's fire. Ready, fire, aim.

13:57Yeah. You got to do some prep. Then you got to pull the trigger. And then after that, you can start aiming. But it's important that you just keep pushing, you know, move forward, keep going, like execute the next decision. Because what ends up happening is people back themselves into a corner of, oh, it's not going to be perfect or it's not going to be 100%. I'm guilty of this still. Even today, I'm always trying to be a perfectionist at something that doesn't really require it. In the development world, MVP, minimum viable product is so important to startup community that they just need to get enough out there to make the next move because people want to have an idea and then they want to go raise capital.

14:37It's not a great idea. Take your idea and find the smallest point in which you can make revenue and profit. Sometimes it's not the business you want to be in, but oftentimes it's what gets you to be successful in the business you're trying to build. And businesses morph. Like, you know, you start doing one thing and the voice of the customer and the money or profitability changes the direction and even concept of the thing you originally started. So it's very important. Like you go into it thinking it's going to be one thing, but it's going to change. And it's always going to change. It's going to continue to change in a direction you cannot predict.

15:11You know, okay, maybe some kind of math-focused business is going to be pretty predictable. I don't know. But I'd say 99 % of them are going to change. So they have to be able to ebb and flow with that change and be able to make decisions quickly, effectively, and you're going to make mistakes. So it's important to be prepared for those failures along the way. I think my biggest lesson from building space for our visuals, and honestly, the best lessons that I've learned from building my own company has been through failure and being like, you know what, if I was in this situation again, I would do something completely different.

15:40And I have made a thousand mistakes building space star visuals, but that is truly how you learn and truly how you get better as an entrepreneur. You just have to be in it, doing it, making mistakes and learning from it and then being able to build on that. Or like I said, get good advisory. You know, people skip a lot of things when they have trusted advisory that they actually believe in because they've had successes or whatever it might be. And so I believe that that's a really good investment up front because failure is expensive, often more expensive than what people can afford to make. Right.

16:07So you can only make so many big mistakes. So sometimes it's better to get advice from people who've already made those mistakes if you can find the right ones, because there's also, like I said, there's a lot of false profits of people that like, hey, I'm making millions of dollars flashing, you know, rented Ferraris. And yeah, it's hard to weed through what's real anymore. And now it's just made it so much more aggressively hard to figure out because people can write, you know, these hugely well-written articles on things that they're not really a thought leader about anymore. So it's getting more and more difficult for people to call that out.

16:40But like I said, one thing you didn't hear me say is follow your passion, right? It's not that you shouldn't find something that you can be passionate about. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't take what they're passionate about and turn it into a business. They can, and sometimes that's successful. But I think you have to look at the thing holistically, right? You can't just go, well, I like sports and I'm gonna make sports my business. You can do that. But you also have to look at like the bigger picture. All the things you just said. Plus, I think for me, when I changed the direction from this money-focused idea, this scarcity mentality, this like I have to work super hard to just survive, so I call it survivalist mentality, to more of a mission-driven, impact-focused ideology, things dynamically changed.

17:27The businesses were successful quickly. I had more passion about what I was doing for people. You end up building these raving fan customers who become really socially influencing of all of their peers. So I think in general, those businesses tend to have way more success early on. But for some people, that's just not their first out of the gate may not be that they might want to just jump into real estate or things that are low lift. And they'll figure that out as they go along. And for some people, like, I don't care. I just care about the money. Yeah. For your first business, I want to ask, so should someone, when they're building their first business, do you still get that advice about doing something that you're passionate about knowing what you know now?

18:06Or would you still say, if you see an opportunity, a gap, kind of exploit it to make money to get your first business off the ground? Or how would you coach that? I guess it depends on the level of complexity and the goals of the entrepreneur. If everybody's like, hey, I need money tomorrow, go get a job. Yeah, literally. Go get a job and take that money and invest it and side hustle your way into a much larger thing. But most people are like, no, I want a business tomorrow. It's going to make me replace my current job and build this lifestyle that isn't normally realistic. It's just not real.

18:34So I think I look at the investment of time, effort, and energy to build something and the outcome of what that might be over a period of time. So if people are looking for more of a quick fix, I just say work on your business should be you sell yourself better, get a better job, make more money and start learning how to invest what excess capital you have into things that can grow and give you that lifestyle quickly versus, hey, let's build something from scratch because entrepreneur life is time and a lot of energy. And so I always try to figure out where that falls in for somebody before I say, yeah, go do something you've never done before.

19:11Learn a totally new industry from scratch. And then, you know, you also have to look at the complexity of that industry. Like, hey, I want to learn how to build AI from scratch. like, oh, OK. Have you ever programmed for it? No, I've never done it. We got a little bit of time here. Yeah. You know, or heavy capital raised focused businesses or really human capital intense companies that you need a ton of staff for. So, I mean, as you look at that, you say, does that actually fit into who that entrepreneur is trying to evolve to be in the time frame that they want to be there? Because then they'll just give up really quickly.

19:43So I've always been a bootstrap founder. So it's always been my money. I don't raise capital. I have. I've done capital raises, significant capital raises. But I think in general, 99 % of what I've built has been my own personally financed things. And I think that's really important because it makes you so much more sensitive to the spend profitability of the company. And I'm a bottom line builder. I don't care about sales. I care about profitability from day one. I'm like, how do we get to profit fast? How do I make this sustainable? The word runway should not exist in of companies that I build.

20:14Don't get me wrong, they have them, but they're very short term because my goal is just purely profit. So for really startup world environments, the first thing you could do is try to find the micro businesses within your company. So I want to build this software and it needs to have all these features and it's going to deliver this value. It's like, that's great. Can we write an ebook and sell that ebook about that topic and make$9 and get that thing going to be able to fund the next phase of development? because I think everybody immediately goes, I'm going to write a business plan. Like they go to this SBA school of, I don't know what it is.

20:48And you know, I'm going to write this great business plan and put together a pitch deck. I'm going to go meet all these investors, which never invest in it. I mean, it's one in a billion, they get a hundred million pitches a day. And if you've never been through this process, it's grueling and it's super expensive. I mean, if you do it right by the end of it, you've spent 30, 40,$50 ,000, the same 30, 40, 50, $50 ,000, that would have changed their life. I think a strategy that I like to give people, especially if they're still in a job and a corporate gig, is people know from a intuitive, they want to be their own entrepreneurs.

21:21I always say, set money aside for that startup capital that you need. Try to get to$10 ,000,$20 ,000 saved up. And when you're ready to go, you have those funds allocated for your business, for the marketing, for the app, just to get it off the ground. And that's one advice I love to give to people is put money off to the side, basically, like you're saying for a house, but it's for your future company. And sales cures all things. So I am a huge proponent of beta. And so it's very easy to make a proof of concept, create an insanely cool video that explains what you do, get people to be able to adopt that concept and put up a coming soon invite only beta tester, you know, like some kind of fight club scenario where people are like, how do I get that?