210: SPAM®

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. For me, someone who travels so much, when I come home, my fridge is totally empty and I have to refer to my pantry items to make something for myself. And a lot of the times, like I have an endless supply of spam because that's one of my go-to proteins that I eat after my long travel. You're listening to The Taste Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard. Today is a very special episode devoted to our love of the Spam brand, the multifunctional and influential canned meat that is used creatively in kitchens around the world. Whether it's Korean buda chigae or musabi rolls spotted in the 7-Eleven in Hawaii, Spam is an American heritage food brand that is worth celebrating.

1:18Up first, we speak with New York City chef and Iron Chef competitor Esther Choi. We discuss her childhood love of Spam and how she cooks with it at her restaurants. Next, we catch up with Hormel's Director of Marketing, Jason Baskin, to offer fun facts about spam and answer some of our burning questions. How does the brand develop recipes in their Minnesota test kitchen? And how does the spam team spot exciting trends around the world? I hope you enjoy this really exciting episode.

1:51Esther Choi, welcome to the Taste Podcast. Matt, thank you so much for having me. It's exciting to see you. This is a special episode. We're talking about Spam the brand, which everyone knows is an ingredient. It's a component in many dishes, but it's also a really important part of the Asian household and the Asian kitchen. But first, like from the jump, what does it taste like to you as a chef, Korean-American chef? What does Spam taste like? Oh, my God, Matt. First of all, Spam is one of my favorite things. Spam to me tastes like home. It tastes like childhood. Yeah. And like flavor profile wise, obviously it's super like salty, but really umami.

2:33Yeah. And it's kind of like that umami flavor that you get so addicted to. And it's like very specific, right? It's not like ham. Texturally kind of could be like ham, but the saltiness and kind of that umami is what makes spam so special. I agree. I've cooked with it in many dishes. The Korean cookbooks I've worked on with Dookie Hong. We'll talk about that prominently. But on Taste, we've written about it extensively. And it's one of those ingredients that has so many layers. It's the reason why we're doing a whole episode about it. But I'd like to know, as a kid growing up, like what were some of the ways that spam was integrated into your cooking?

3:09So my mom used spam in so many ways. My favorite way definitely was just fried. Like sliced and then in the fry pan, like crispy. And the smell of it actually like makes you salivate. You know, it's a memory. I'm like salivating right now. I know. I was just like thinking about it. Yeah, me too. Right? And then, of course, in like fried rice, right? That's like kind of a very classic way to eat it with eggs. Ooh, cool. But my favorite has to be kimchi jjigae, right? Oh, sick. Absolutely. You know, like kimchi and any pork product goes so well together. But spam, something happens to it when it's like simmering in kimchi broth.

3:50It bloats. and it kind of gives like it soaks up the flavor of kimchi and the textural like component of spam kind of changes. Instead of getting crispy, it's the other way where it gets like juicy. I love that you've brought up two different techniques. Like the frying in some ways like to put it with sugar. I know that that's like very popular. But then you've got this way of braising and cooking, how it expands. It's so cool. Yeah. It's so different texturally, both extremely delicious. It just depends on, you know, the day and the time. Yeah. What about budajjigae? Budajjigae, that's a dish that has a lot of history in Korea.

4:27What is your interpretation? There isn't, I don't feel right or wrong answer about how budajjigae became a dish, but how does that play in the Korean kitchen right now? So budajjigae, obviously, like you mentioned, has so much history, right? The troops came over, like Koreans took, you know, whatever was left over, the baked beans, the spam, like sausages or hot dogs and mixed it with kimchi and made this like stew. Right. So it's a very scrappy thing. And that, you know, like right away gained so much popularity. Not only because like I think Koreans were so intrigued by the American culture because of pop culture and all that.

5:09It was their way of tasting America without going to America. because you just like couldn't because, you know, after the war, Korea was very poor. But, you know, wanting to be a part of that culture and the first step into that was, you know, food. And I think that adding spam to like pudejjigae and making this kind of like concoction of Korean-American thing, that was probably one of the first Korean-American dishes that was born. It's so true. It was born out of war, but it's been, you know, articulated on so many different menus. I'm sure at Makbar you've done a version of it. Oh, we have a, so we do a, we're a ramen shop.

5:51So we do a army ramen is what we call it, which is based on pute jjigae. And of course we have a piece of fried spam in there. Yeah. So you have two different versions of it. You have it fried and then you have it actually braised and cooked down. Yeah. Love that. I mean, it's cool because it is the first Korean-American dish, if you think about it. I really think so. You're right. What else was Korean-American besides? I mean, this was like in this— 52, 53, yeah. Yeah, so it was before even there was a big Korean community in America. Completely. Yeah, so it had to have been the first Korean-American dish, one of the first.

6:27I like that. I've never actually thought about that, but it's so true. You're right. What about Hawaii? Have you ever had Spam Musubi or in Japan or in your travels around the world? Of course. Like if I see a Musubi, I'm getting the Spam version. And I'm getting like 10 of them. It's like the best road trips. What is Musubi to you? Musubi to me is, you know, a rice ball, you know, and it has some sort of like topping and wrapped with nori. And obviously in Hawaii, it's like the Spam Musubi is so beloved. It's absolutely at the 7-Elevens. I get it at 7-Eleven. 7-Eleven. In Korea, in the 7-Elevens, they have spam kimbap, which is similar to Musubi.

7:16But it's just so delicious. How could you not buy one if it's like$2 and it's like at 7-Eleven? I think it changes a lot of Western folks, like folks from America, like white folks who have never really had spam in an Asian context. When they visit Hawaii, they get the spam musubi or they have a buddhichigae in Makbar. And it's like very surprising. I think usually it's extremely positive, right? Yeah, I feel like that's possibly like a white American's first time having spam is in an Asian context or in Hawaii. I feel like maybe a lot of the times it's in Hawaii. but I like to say that a lot of my, you know, white friends or, you know, non-Asian friends have never tried spam before and then I have to turn them onto it, which is interesting, right?

8:09Yeah. I think a lot of folks, there's a preconceived notion about spam, how it's, you know, lower cost or whatever you have. It's not a farmer's market ingredient, right? No, it is definitely not. But, you know, you got to understand it is canned meat in the end. Yeah. At the end of the day, it is canned meat. But that's the great thing about it, because it's shelf stable. Right. You can't you don't have to refrigerate it. And, you know, for me, someone who travels so much, I when I come home, my fridge is totally empty and I have to refer to my pantry items to make something for myself. and a lot of the times like I have an endless supply of spam because that's one of my go-to proteins yeah um that I eat when after my long travel I think I was talking to Johan from Lincoln Park one day and he told me I think he has in his in his head in his his tour uh rider I love that I think it was him I don't quote me but like I think it was it was Joe I think he was telling me about that yeah I mean that's really interesting because you know you want to carry a piece of you around if you especially if you're on the road a lot like i carry kimchi with me everywhere you do i do like when i travel like it's either yeah kimchi or ramen but now i have to add spam yeah yeah i love it now what about creative use of spam i think we've talked about bujige we've talked about musubi or kimbap but what are there are there any ways that you have cooked with spam in a way that like super creative matt spam is possibly one of the most versatile ingredients that you can cook with.

9:44Like you just have to replace it with any protein if you really think about it. Like even like, yes, you can put it in stews and fry it up and, you know, chop it real small and put it in like stir fries and things like that. But, you know, some of the ways that I like to think about spam is you can also like grind it up and make it into like a meatball or like I like making like dumpling filling with it. It's super savory and it's got the umami edge. Exactly. Like even if you add that to like pork, like ground pork, and then make something with it, it gives it different like textural and flavor profile.

10:22Like this like saltiness that you wouldn't imagine anywhere else. So, yeah. So good. Mouth is watering. I know. My mouth is watering. I need to eat like a Spam egg and cheese right now. We definitely need to go there. So Esther, one cool thing about Spam is it's not just original. There's like a lot of different flavors and many different cultures are covered. What have you tried out there in the universe of spam the brand? You know, that's so interesting because when I do go to supermarkets, you see all the different types of spam flavors. Right. And I always revert to the original because I like the OG.

10:56But I have tried mala flavor because when I was in Korea, I saw that and I was like, yo, I have to try that. What is mala? Let's explain that. It's like the Shzechuan peppercorn spice that like makes your mouth tingly. Yeah. So I had to grab that one and I tried it and it was super delicious, like mouth tingly, like really interesting. And then I think I tried the teriyaki flavor as well. If you could make your own brand of spam, if you could like come up with a flavor. Yeah. What would that be? You know, it has to be kimchi. Like it's the classic combo. And remember how I was saying that in kimchi jjigae, my favorite part of spam is when it soaks up the kimchi juice.

11:35Yeah. Like it's just so delicious. Like it has to be kimchi. It's so smart because like I feel if they brought in a kimchi flavor, it would actually be like extra, extra buddhichigae. Yeah. You know what I mean? Can you imagine putting that one in buddhichigae? In the buddhichigae. It's like the extra. I mean, you need it like it's like 2X. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Esther Choi, thank you for talking spam. Thank you, Matt and Spam Bread.

12:07Jason Baskin, welcome to the Taste Podcast. Glad to be here. It's exciting to talk to somebody at Hormel Foods. You're the director of marketing there. You oversee marketing for spam, and I have a lot of questions for you. Well, let's shoot. Sounds good. First, I mean, this is basic, but can you give me like a 30-second history lesson on the spam brand? How did it become such a phenomenon worldwide? Yeah, so the first can of Spam rolled off the production line July 5th, 1937. So this year is going to be the 86th birthday of the brand. And it really started in the 1930s as this product in order to fit the needs of families who are looking for nutritious and filling meals.

12:48And as the United States entered World War II, Spam started to play a crucial role in supporting the troops overseas. And so as the allied forces went into Europe, they went into the Pacific, they went into Africa. Spam really went with it. And so during World War II, Hormel Foods provided 15 million cans of food to troops each week. And so spam really became this staple product that they would eat when they were fighting the war. 15 million a week? 15 million a week. That is staggering. I mean, we're not doing anything at that level right now. That's amazing. It's crazy. And what was really cool is, you know, spam was such this like great tasting product.

13:27And so when the greatest generation came home, they started kind of sharing that and eating spam with their families who have then passed it down from generation to generation. And then even the areas that Allied troops had liberated, Spam was kind of this cultural icon that had come over from America, and they've embraced it as their own kind of food of liberation as well. And so, you know, humble beginnings to, you know, this cultural, iconic, incredible brand. Absolutely. Can you tell me about your personal connection to Spam? I mean, did you grow up eating it? I'm not sure where you're from.

14:01You're from America. You're from the Midwest. So tell me your history. Yeah, so my personal connection is actually really, really intense because I grew up in Austin, Minnesota, which is where Spam was born and is known as Spam Town USA. And so, you know, between that and I'm actually a second generation employee at Hormel. My dad worked for the company for almost 40 years before he retired. So, I mean, Spam's been such an important part of our life for so long. And so I distinctly remember growing up and my mom making spam and eggs for breakfast on Saturday mornings or, you know, spam appetizers when they were going to have friends over for a dinner party.

14:41And, you know, for me, it's really cool now to be able to pass that down to our next generation. So we've got two little girls, seven and 10 years old, both like spam. They actually have spam day at their school. And so they'll wear their spam stuff. And, you know, I know I can fry up some Spam and rice and dinner's going to go well and they're going to get a big old smile on their face. So kind of this cool multi-generational connection to the business. I love that. I mean, why wouldn't they love it? I mean, Spam is absolutely delicious. I cook with it a lot in various forms. I'm just a huge fan of the brand.

15:10And I mean, if I'm to can I visit Austin and like is can I see like is there a museum or is there if I want to be a Spam tourist? Absolutely. And that's really actually something that's so cool about the brand. In Austin, Minnesota, we have a Spam museum. but an hour and a half south of Minneapolis, 16 ,000 square feet, all dedicated to spam. And it is really, really well done. And so we have over half a million visitors who have come to the spam museum. You can buy any kind of spam you want, any kind of spam merchandise. And so it is an incredible place and we'd love to host you and have you down in Austin, Minnesota.

15:45I can't wait. I'm from Michigan. I went to college in Wisconsin and I love that part of the world. It's amazing. So I'm going to take you up on that. Absolutely. We want you to. Now, you mentioned the different flavors of Spam, and I just would like to get your sense about Spam and why has it gained such a cult following around the globe? You talked about the history of World War II, but to this day, it's just growing and growing, and there's so many different flavors around the world. Yeah, Matt, I think it's a couple of things. One is, you know, spam is this global brand. So it's consumed in 48 different countries across the world.

16:23And so it really gets woven into the fabric of every corner of the globe. And I think what makes it unique is that taste, convenience, and value are so timeless. And so that versatility of spam allows each culture to kind of embrace it and put their own twist on it. And it's one of those things that so many people have grown up eating spam that everybody's got a story from their childhood when you ask them about it. And so now people are kind of rediscovering spam each and every generation, maybe put a little bit different twist on it. And you get such a passionate fan base as a result of it. And I think some of it too is we know not everybody in the world is going to eat spam and that's okay.

17:07because for the millions and millions of people who do eat it, there is intense passion and loyalty and love to it. And you know what? That inspires us. Yeah, well, you know, I don't think everyone in the world is going to eat Greek yogurt. I don't think everyone in the world is going to eat Sabra hummus. Right. It's a good point. Like, I don't, there's definitely different tastes around the world. And I've written about the rabid following of spam and the way it's cultish in many parts of the world. We talked to Esther Choi earlier in the episode about spam's connection to Korean cuisine. Where else is spam being cooked around the globe?

17:40I know it's throughout in many cultures. And are there any cultures that maybe I wouldn't know about? Yeah, so we've got this great saying that we use internally that we got from some consumer research recently that, you know, spam was really born in America, but raised around the world. And, you know, what that means is it just fits into different food cultures so incredibly well. And so, you know, yeah, in the United States, We've got our classic Spam and eggs and Spam sandwiches and all kinds of stuff. You go to Okinawa and Spam and rice is huge. You know, on the broader island of Japan, you've got Spam Musubi.

18:18You can actually get it in a gas station. It's kind of essentially Spam sushi. You know, even China, you've got Spam hot pot. And, you know, even our good friends across the pond in the UK embrace Spam and kind of put their twist on it with things like Spam fritters and Spam curry and stuff like that. And so it really is this global food that is embraced in all kinds of different ways. And I love when we'll talk to consumers around the globe, we'll hear them when they come to America, see a can of Spam in the grocery store and go, oh, wow, I can't believe you guys have Spam here too because that's our food.

18:52Yeah, it's a really good point. I'd love to get a sense of the different flavors. You know, you've got the original flavor, which I think everyone in America at least grew up on. But then we've written about this on Taste, and I'll link to that in the show notes. And I guess give our listeners a sense of how these flavors work in different cultures. Yes, you've got these incredible flavors that, you know, we've got 11 different flavors that we sell in the United States. You know, everything from classic to hot and spicy to teriyaki. And then there are different cultural flavors that really start to connect based on where they're at in the world.

19:28And so, you know, Spam Tocino goes really well in certain areas of the world. You know, we had Spam Mezcala that connected really well with Puerto Rico because that's how Spam was used there. You know, there's different kind of Chinese varieties and Korean varieties that are produced. And so, you know, you've got the classic Spam and just incredible flavor. But then we also have kind of different variations on it that we'll do around the world. You know, and then we've really started to embrace over the last few years totally crazy and unique flavors, too. And so, you know, a few years ago, we were kind of sitting around and somebody at our innovation center was like, gosh, it feels like we've got pumpkin spice everything.

20:06Like it is such a played out thing. Somebody goes, yeah, but there's not pumpkin spice spam. They're like, wait a second. I think we can do something with that. And so, you know, we launched pumpkin spice spam. It sold out almost instantly. You know, we came back and had figgy pudding spam, you know, this holiday season. That sold out really quickly. And so, you know, it kind of gives you the ability to push the envelope as far as you really can because it's such a versatile flavor and product. Super interesting. You talk about the Innovation Center, your test kitchen. I mean, what's it like there?

20:39I mean, I'd love – test kitchens are so fascinating because you've got such culinary aptitude and excellence there and you're thinking about this product. What's it smell like? What's it like when you're walking in? What are you eating? Yeah. Well, when you come to Austin, Minnesota, and go to the Spam Museum, we will absolutely get you into the Test Kitchen as well. Excellent. And so the Taste Kitchen is located in our Innovation Center, which is right across the parking lot from our office. And it's such a cool spot because we've got about 10 different kitchens. We've got a team of culinary experts, everybody from chefs to food scientists who really understand this food incredibly deeply.

21:14And when you walk in, you've got just this incredible smell of if it's spam or bacon or pepperoni, kind of whatever we're making up for the day. You know, and it's something that having worked for Hormel for a number of years, you kind of take for granted at times. But my eyes got reopened a couple weeks ago because we had a snow day here in Minnesota. And so the kids were stuck at home. And I'm like, hey, dad's got to go to a meeting because we're looking at a couple of different kinds of spam. And you guys both like spam. You want to come in? And so they're like, yeah, sounds good. And so they walk in.

21:46You've got like 19 different plates of different flavors and different styles that we were looking at. And their impression – I mean their minds were just blowing. And so their impression is that dad's job is just to go to the office and eat Spam all day. So they are pretty convinced that I've got one of the coolest jobs in the world. Yeah. I mean listen, it is a cool job to work for a heritage food brand and this really is a heritage American food brand. and it's like you're preserving history. Plus you're making extremely cool things in the test kitchen. I love this. Yeah, it's a ton of fun and it is such a fun brand to work on.

22:21Let me ask you like straight up, what is the wildest use of spam you've encountered maybe through your market research or through social media? Maybe somebody has sent in an email. Have you been super impressed by the way spam has been used? I'm so consistently blown away by how creative our fans are. And so we've got a whole internal communication channel entirely dedicated to just sharing different recipes that, yeah, to your point, either people will send to us, we'll find them like Instagram or TikTok, or, hey, I saw this at a restaurant. And so probably the craziest and best one that I've seen recently is Smoked Spam Burnt Ends.

23:00Yeah, wow. And it was like, I love smoking meat. You know, we've got a smoker at home. It's kind of a passion that, you know, developed over COVID. and it was one of those that you like you saw the recipe and the video of how the people put it together you're like oh we got to try that and so you know i got home that weekend and got it all set up it smoked the spam and you know got it with the barbecue sauce on there and i mean it was so easy and so incredibly delicious and so i mean there's a lot of really cool stuff but that's probably my favorite you know that i've made on a consistent basis here most recently it sounds like you've got the burnt end you've got those great like smoky bits of fat and skin and you know the like the crispy and then you've got spam which is like it's full of umami it's got a really unique you know salt level and and kick to it i i'm i'm buying this this sounds amazing it was awesome and it was one of those that it's like okay this is definitely something the next time we've got people over we've got to fry up and you know make sure we get going jason do you ever get out of minnesota do you get to travel around the country or world and and experience spam in on location?

24:02Do you have any good stories there? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of, you know, travel, especially more recently domestically, just kind of what's going on in the world. And I love to get out and go see how, you know, different restaurants and culinary cultures are treating things. And, you know, what's really cool about Spam is it's a brand that's really been embraced by on-trend restaurants all over the country. And so I love, you know, we were down in Chicago recently and there was a kind of trendy Asian restaurant that had spam on the menu. You know, you go out to Los Angeles and you might have spam, you know, in a food truck, you know, get in New York city and there's a number of different places that kind of have spam.

24:45And, you know, so I love to see the different ways that spam gets treated with restaurants. And it's always kind of one of those, you order the, out of the spam, you know, whatever. And the waitress kind of looks at you for a second and then it goes, all right, you know, this is good you know and so and it's always amazing and well yeah it's just incredible yeah i mean as you know asian food in america you know increases in visibility and there's more representation in the aapi community i feel this important product in asian food culture is not being looked at you know as uh with question or or hesitance and i think when you're confidently putting on the menu because it is delicious and you're cooking in a way that's unique, but also feels innate to a culture.

25:29I think that there's more and more folks who are not going to be like questioning it. They're going to be like, wow, this is actually delicious food. It also represents a culture that maybe I don't know. And I think what's cool about that is you're spot on that it allows you kind of this accessible way to kind of experience that culture. Right. And so if you walk into a Korean restaurant, you've got spam kimchi or, you know, a Japanese restaurant and there's Spam Musubi. It's kind of this, I'm familiar with it. I'm going to try it. I trust it. And yeah, I mean, that's, as we think about like how to grow the brand long-term, that's such a huge growth opportunity for us because when you think about the changing demographic of the country, we don't have to sell different cultures on Spam because to your point, they absolutely embrace it.

26:14It's kind of theirs. And so, you know, we are really doing a lot of work as a brand to make sure that we are embracing those communities just as much as they're embracing us. Let me close by just asking you about the future of spam and totally agree with you. It's as our demographics change in America, foods like spam are going to become more and more part of daily life. Tell me, what's the biggest growth opportunity for spam? I mean, you're always working on new flavors, but, you know, are you taking the show on the road? Is there going to be a spam bowl one day for the, you know, for college football?

26:44You know, I love that idea. I like spam and I like college football. So we got to figure out how to put that together. Make it happen. There's way worse brands that do bowls. So you deserve your place there. I mean, there's like fertilizer companies and stuff like spam deserves its own bowl. Anyways, that's an aside. Matt, as we think about how to grow the brand, we've got this incredible growth trajectory right now. So even though spam's 85, 86 years old, we just finished our eighth consecutive record year of sales. And so as we think about like, where do we go to grow the brand into the future, we're really thinking about three things.