845: Kenta Goto’s Bartender’s Guide Is a Must-Read for Professionals and Amateurs Alike

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1:37Kenta Goto:So my bartending career started after I came to New York. So bagoto is a combination of what I learned from Pegu Club and who I am as a Japanese person. So that's why it is a New York bar with a Japanese soul. This is Taste. I'm your host, Eliza Barbanel.

2:05Kenta Goto is a bartender and the owner and operator of two acclaimed cocktail bars, Bar Goto on New York's Lower East Side and Bar Goto Niban in Brooklyn. Born and raised in Tokyo, Goto moved to New York and worked at the lauded cocktail bar Pegu Club for seven years before opening his own bar. Now he's sharing his considerable wisdom in a debut cookbook, The Goto Bartender's Guide. Today on the show, we chat about developing his cocktail skills and his signature approach towards drinks, and how home bartenders can do the same. Kenta Goto, this is Tace. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

2:41Kenta Goto:Thank you. I'm really happy to have you in the studio today. I really think that Bar Goto and the second location are two of my favorite bars in New York, So to get to talk to the person who made them is really special for me. Well, that's great to hear. I think of them as almost institutions. I guess it's been 13 years since you opened the first one? Definitely, we're going to hit 13 years. Yeah, right now, our Lower East Side location is in 11 years business. And that one in Brooklyn, Bagoto Niban is going to be, yeah, it is six years now. Right. That one opened in 2020. 2020, exactly. One month before pandemic came.

3:26Kenta Goto:Bad timing. It was bad timing. I'm not sure exactly how we survived, but we did. So, yeah, it's been great. So I'm excited to talk to you about the bars and about your really beautiful new book, The Gotoh Bartender's Guide. But first, I want to ask you if you can tell me about the last memorable meal you had. Oh, yeah. That would be the steak that my wife and I cook together. So a friend of mine, food chef, yeah, kind enough to give us some nice cut. And also fresh wasabi root. Then we have this aged soy sauce that we love. You just need a little bit. But yeah, so that's what we had last week.

4:15Kenta Goto:And that was fantastic. Wow. I've heard that it's hard to find actual wasabi in New York. Do you feel like that's true? I mean, you can buy it at the Japanese grocery stores, but the one that I go to in my neighborhood, the price tag is like$38, almost$40, so I never buy it. So it's nice to have somebody just give it to me. Yeah, it's good to have friends that are chefs. And something I learned about you while reading this book is that you grew up in your mom's restaurant in Tokyo. And I'm curious how that kind of shaped you and the way that you work in food. Right. So, yeah, my mother had a Okonomiyaki restaurant, which we serve at our Manhattan location.

5:04Kenta Goto:Although I completely changed the recipe. And then other than the fact that we serve okonomiyaki, there's nothing that my mother actually did. So she had this restaurant for about 11, 12 years. It was not exactly my choice, but I was always helping her because my mother told me to do so. So I did. And then when I was younger, I did not realize it. But after I came to New York, started living in New York, and then, yeah, my life in New York did not exactly start as I planned. So I struggled. So then there was a time that I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing in my life. And then I always remember that I had a great time working at my mother's restaurant, just chopping cabbage and making doughs and then lots of cleaning.

6:10Kenta Goto:But I'm just witnessing very like a joy between my mother and the customers, something I vividly remember even now. so I decided to just pursue what I think I'm more comfortable with and once I made that switch in my head everything was clear I just started yeah getting into bartending so yeah you came to New York and you were working at like a Japanese firm here right so you were kind of still in the Japanese work culture even though you were in New York right I did not come to so I went to fashion school first yes so that was the beginning that was a main reason for me to come to New York but long story short I did not find a job in fashion that paid me enough to survive in New York City comfortably so yeah so I started just yeah contacting a staffing agency and then And that's how I ended up spending some time in a very traditional corporate office.

7:23Kenta Goto:I mean, paycheck is paycheck. But I just knew that this is not the reason for me to come to New York. So I just had to make a change before it gets too late. Yes. Right. And then you made your way into bartending. I'm curious, like, where you kind of developed your skills as a bartender. Right. I did read a lot of books, watched YouTube, and just follow very well-known Japanese bartenders in Japan. But Pegu Club, where I spent over seven years, was the place I really learned cocktail making and business. And Pegu Club is, I think, thought of as one of the kind of forebearers of the contemporary cocktail kind of movement.

8:12in New York. When you went there, what made you want to work there?

8:16Kenta Goto:I was working at a few places before I started working at Pegu Club, and I thought I was making good cocktails. But when I went to Pegu Club the very first time, I tried four or five drinks on the menu, and everything just hit the spot. And then just the way the bartender was working, and just everything was like wow moment for me. Yeah, but at the same time, I also learned that all bartenders working at pig club at that time, they all knew Audrey, my mentor, old boss, Audrey personally. So they already know each other and Audrey specifically hired them. then there was no opening spot at that time so as much as I wanted to get a chance but just there was no way for me to just get in then fast forward maybe five six months after that I came across job opening ad on Craigslist yeah I'm pretty sure no one use Craigslist look for a job nowadays but this was before culinary Asian time.

9:40Kenta Goto:But anyway, I came across this ad and just reading it and all right, so this sounds good but it did not say who posted it. But I just felt like this is probably from Peg Club or maybe Milk and Honey, which is now called Ataboy. So one of those craft cocktail bars. but I put my resume together and I sent it and a couple days later yeah Audrey emailed me and then yeah had a job interview and there was a second interview which was she made a surprise visit at one of the places that I was working at on a busy Friday night and then yeah she told me why don't you make me a gin sour but this time cocktail was still kind of upcoming most of the places were just doing a vodka red bull or vodka cranberry and 30 vodka martini and that place did not even have fresh lemon juice but Audrey told me to just do your best and just make me gin sour so I put something together gave it to her she didn't even try it But she asked me, which gin did you use and tell me why?

11:07Then, although I did not have any great answer, but yeah, she did offer me a job, which is just one shift a week.

11:19Kenta Goto:But that's how my pig life started. Wow. That must have been so nerve wracking to have a surprise visit from her at the bar. Yes. Still, after all these years, when she comes to Bar Goto, I just have to make sure that everything's on point. Luckily, you definitely have fresh lemon juice at Bar Goto now. Yeah, at least now, we do plenty. It's interesting to think about such a different era of cocktail culture in New York and in the United States as a whole. I'm curious, you know, fresh lemon juice behind the bar is one example, but how have you seen the kind of cocktail scene in New York evolve since you started working here?

12:02Yeah, definitely everybody use fresh lemon juice.

12:07Kenta Goto:It's hard to find sour mix. Maybe I'm not looking into hard enough, but at least people around me, I don't think anyone use sour mix. but cocktail industry has been getting bigger and bigger I see there are more opportunities than what I remember when I started it which is a great thing I feel every year I see some trends some new products but I think we tend to go back to something simple and delicious at the end. This episode is brought to you by Gooder. I spend a lot of time eating around Los Angeles. A long dinner at Squirrel, a scalloped tostada with yuzu kosho apple and basil at Found Oyster, exceptional pour-over coffee at Quat, in-between stops at Soban, Bub and Grandma's, and Holbosh.

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14:36Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.

15:08Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu. Now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13. In the book, you describe Bar Goto as a New York bar with a Japanese soul. If someone's listening and they've never been to Bar Goto, how would you kind of explain what that looks like or what tastes like?

15:31Kenta Goto:Yes. So this New York bar with Japanese soul was one of the magazines that we were featured on called us. Then that really kind of stuck in my head. And then so since then, we've been just using it to describe what we do. So my bartending career started after I came to New York. So, bagoto is a combination of what I learned from Pegu Club and who I am as a Japanese person. So, that's why it is a New York bar with a Japanese soul. Are there any signature drinks or items on the food menu that you think kind of get that across? Food menu, yeah. So, what I do is cocktail, making cocktails. But when we opened, when we first opened, food became popular, more than I expected.

16:31So since day one, we have kombu celery and miso wings and also the okonomiyaki, which is inspired by my mother, but totally changed the recipe.

16:45Kenta Goto:But those three have been Bar Goto classic food menu. We have to talk about the kombu celery because the first time I went to Bar Goto, which was probably 2016, when I was living on the Lower East Side, one of my friends said, oh, you want a place to go for a date. This is where you should go. You have to have the celery. And no one had ever suggested celery to me at a bar before. So I went to try it and it's probably the best celery dish I've ever had. What makes it so good? Yeah.

17:21Kenta Goto:So when we first opened, I had another friend of mine, food chef. His name is Kiyo Shinoki and he runs a place called Takumen in Long Island City. Yeah, I love that place. And also Tonchin in Brooklyn. so we were talking well he was suggesting that maybe we should do shishito pepper but I mean I grew up in Japan so I did not find shishito pepper to be like special enough to put it on my very first menu just munching on celery was something that I was doing after my weekend shift at Pegu Club and I'm off on Sundays usually Then I opened the fridge and then celery. And all right, what I'm going to do with this and just drizzle sesame oil and then put some little salt.

18:15Kenta Goto:But anyway, so that's what I was, that was my Sunday snack. Then we talked about it. And then I found a similar recipe to what I was eating to Kiyo. Then Kiyo came back and then that's how kombu celery was born. But the dish is very simple. Just fresh celery paired, lightly drizzled with sesame oil. Then we season with three items. Roasted white sesame and dried red shiso flakes and salted kelp kombu. That's it. It's very simple. But one thing that we always pay attention to is that we measure precisely so that the balance between each seasoning becomes just right. And that's what we do at cocktails too.

19:21So I think that's the secret of kombu celery. Yeah, I think the balance and maybe also peeling the celery. I think growing up in America, if you're eating celery with peanut butter or something like that, your mom probably isn't peeling it. She's just cutting it up and giving it to you. And I think it's so tender and also the seasoning gets to kind of soak into it more maybe because it's been peeled.

19:45Kenta Goto:I see. So I grew up in Japan, so I never knew about the peanut butter and celery. Ants on a log, yeah. But yeah, definitely peeling, let celery absorb the flavor more for sure. So I want to talk about the drink side of Bar Goto because obviously that's the whole point of all of it. And I think one of the things that I really loved about Bar Goto when I first started going was I hadn't had that much experience with Japanese whiskey. It's certainly not the only liquor that you serve, but it does seem to be a big part of the menu. And I'm wondering if maybe somebody who isn't that familiar with Japanese whiskey, how would you talk about what makes Japanese whiskey special and what kind of drinks do you like to make with it?

20:31I like to just drink as it is. Sometimes some people ask me to make Manhattan or old fashioned with some expensive Japanese whiskey, but we have to charge accordingly. Then we let them know how much it would be. Right. They usually change their mind. What makes Japanese whiskey special? It's becoming like a century whiskey commercial, but I think just craftsmanship. And then there's a very famous century whiskey commercial. The catchphrase is nothing less, nothing more. So just right. And I think the dedication to craft final product, That is just right, so you don't need anything. And I'd say water in Japan might have something to do with Japanese whiskey.

21:34Kind of like the New York bagels being good because of the water. Oh, yeah. I went to Tokyo for the first time in January this year, and I drank a lot of whiskey highballs, which was not something I had drank a lot of before. And I feel like maybe that's a good application for Japanese whiskey as well, because it's not so aggressively flavored. You can still taste the whiskey. Yeah. And light, fizzy, refreshing. And it goes well with pretty much any food. So, yeah. When you go back to Japan, do you spend time going to bars there and catching up on what's happening with cocktails? Yeah. Yes. Whenever I have time to do so, I will do that.

22:17When I go back to Tokyo, I usually stay nearby my parents. And that is around Ginza area. Then about 10 minutes east from Ginza, there's an area called Tsukishima. Tsukishima is known for Monjayaki. Let me just say it's a sister of Okonomiyaki. Okay. Yeah. So if we talk about Monjiyaki, we need another session. So I'm going to just skip to explain what Monjiyaki is right now. But so in Tsukishima, there's one of my favorite cocktail bars. It's called Arai Tateguten. So it's a very old two-story Japanese house. And the owner's name happened to be also Kenta. but Kenta Arai. So Arai's uncle or grandparents used to live in the house and that was their workshop for wooden doors or screen.

23:32Then he took over, then I changed the inside and turned it into a cocktail bar. And it's really special place that you just have to go there and experience it. It's really a transport you into like a nice, retro,

23:55quiet, in a good way, quiet, like a special place. Attention to details to every single drink. Yeah, I always recommend Arai Tateguten to everybody. I wish I had talked to you before I went to Tokyo because I didn't go there, but it sounds like a great place to go. So I want to ask you about making this book. What inspired you to want to write down all of your cocktail knowledge after working in the industry for so long? Yeah, I was approached a few times to do books in the past, which, of course, I was grateful for the opportunities. But it was very important for me to hit 10 years in business first.

24:41Then when Bargoto was about in year eight, nine, then I started thinking about doing a book. Maybe I think after 10 years, maybe I have something that I can share. So, yeah, that's how gradually we started getting into preparing this book. How did you adapt the recipes for home bartenders? I imagine it's pretty different than serving in a bar. Right. We have 100 recipes in the book. But we introduced two instructions. One is for professional bartenders and another one for home bartenders. the idea came to me because when I try to make cocktails that I make at Bar Goto at home sometimes I don't have the tools that I'm using at the bar I just just don't want to carry so many bar tools right to go home then I'm of course ice is different so so there is a recipe that I spent a lot of time to finalize for the bar, but that's not necessarily work at home, home bartending setting.

26:15So, I mean, a recipe might work, but you need to change your execution. You need to change, you need to make adjustments in cocktail making because ice is different. What do you mean by the ice being different? So at Bar Goto or any cocktail bars, most of us have commercial grade large ice machine. And that gives you like one inch by one inch cube. Maybe some of them might use a 1.25 by 1.25. But unless you are so into cocktails, no one's going to have that kind of ice machine at home. So I just use ice cubes coming out of a fridge, a freezer, or I just use ice tray to make ice. So quality of ice is different.

27:15So the one that I get from freezer, it shudder so quickly. So you don't want to just, so you don't want to like shake the way that you shake at the bar. So that was a beginning moment. I think I need to just make sure that home bartenders can make the drinks and taste good as if they are drinking at Bar Goto. So it's almost like, I know it's somewhat similar, but almost doing two versions of every recipe because you know that some of your readers are going to be professional bartenders and some of them are going to be at home. Yeah, exactly. And even if you are professional bartenders, but you're making it at home, they need to make adjustments.

28:09This is how much of a beginner bartender that I am that I didn't even think about how different it would be to make it at home. Yeah. But, you know, it's your home environment. So maybe, you know, you can do whatever you want. Right. No one's going to send the drink back to me. It's just going to be me. Yeah. But this is what I do. So if you're going to make something, I want that to be good, as good as it can be. Is there a recipe you would recommend for somebody like myself who's kind of just getting into making drinks at home?

28:43Kenta Goto:I'd say Tom Collins. I'm sure Tom Collins is introduced in any cocktail books that you can get. but I say Tom Collins because it gives you opportunities to try all different brands of gin and you would be very surprised to know that it depends on the brand's flavor so different and at the same time proof is different too and proof definitely affect how the final product tastes and also you get to dig into lemon juice versus lime juice and have different there actually but if you can mix it maybe but just learning the opportunity to get into so yeah lemon, lime, juice, sour element and also the sweet element it doesn't have to be always simple syrup It can be like a honey syrup or like a brown sugar syrup.