840: Mohamed Attia Sold Street Smoothies in Times Square. Now He Shapes Vending Policy.

26:57Wow, that's remarkable. I mean, clearly, directionally, the Bloomberg administration wanted to do something right, but they clearly blocked out the most important situation. The way we see it, they just wanted to use the vendors to address a crisis that they have that capitalism cannot fix. No supermarkets want to open in a food desert because it's very expensive to start a supermarket and you're not going to be opening a big store and collect nickels and dimes. So they said, let's just use these immigrants and give them an opportunity. And then they did this whole thing and it's a mess. It's a mess.

27:27Well, walk me through January 2026. Big thing happens. The Adams administration made a veto. There was an override of the veto. And this cap that had been in place since 1979 has been released, has been increased. I think it's an amazing bit of news. I want to hear about what it was like running the Street Render Project and your colleagues there and what has happened in the nine months since then. Sure. Well, I think it took us 25 years of building this movement and 12 years campaigning and talking to every elected in the city government to get to this point of January 2026, when the city council thankfully overrode the mayor's veto and passed the street vendor reform.

28:15again, a historic package of bills that is basically changing things that haven't been touched for almost half a century. And now we are at a point where the local laws passed and then the implementation is happening. And again, it's not, you know, like, you're not going to flip a switch. It's not going to happen overnight. So there are processes in place. So there are two categories of vending, as you probably know, merchandise and food. So with the food, the health department is releasing those applications for the new license and permits that are basically going out to the vendors and they are doing that 2 ,000 applications at a time.

28:47So it's kind of like a gradual system. They started this past July. Every July in the next four years, there will be 2 ,000 new applications. By the end of the five-year mark, we're looking at 11 ,000 additional supervisory licenses and permits for the food vendors. That's going to change in a very dramatic way the entire landscape. Will that diminish and maybe eradicate the black market? That's the goal. And that's the ambition here because the new system requires a holder of this new license to be present at the cart all the time. So I cannot rent you my permit and then go work in my office or go do another job.

29:23That's not going to happen anymore. On the flip side for merchandise vendors, and again, that cab that we talked about was set up in 1979. Now the city is creating 10 ,500 new licenses that will be released next January. So we're looking at a really dramatic change in the entire landscape. We're looking at thousands, tens of thousands of opportunities that will be created for the vendors, food vendors and merchandise vendors alike to just get into the system, apply for the license. and basically just stop fearing enforcement. You know, imagine someone is doing their business in the streets and they set up a small table or a small cart and they are just looking over their shoulder every five minutes.

30:03It's just not a healthy space. It's not healthy and it clearly diminishes your work as like on the culinary side, on the commercial side, when you're always looking for somebody to pull out a badge and tell you to leave. Pretty much. And like sadly, even when you look at the data, you look at the significant numbers of fines and tickets and even arrests that are made in neighborhoods where it's heavily populated by immigrant communities. And this is pretty much trapping these communities in poverty because it's a cycle. You have to go out, make a few dollars, and then every week or every month, if you interact with an enforcement agent who'll give you a couple of tickets for a couple of thousand dollars, that's it.

30:44Your entire savings, your Your entire profit is gone. And then you're back to square one. And that is the story that a lot of vendors are living in for decades. So there's no coincidence that January 2026 coincided with the inauguration of Mayor Vandami. And I just want to get your assessment of how he's doing this veto repeal or override was one element. But there's other issues that the mayor can help street vendors. So tell me about what he's been doing and the administration's been doing. and what's your relationship with the mayor? Sure. So let's start with the override because this is very important and I think not a lot of people are aware of how city government and the legislative process works, but a lot of the credit goes to the city council and the current leadership in the city councils, of course, Speaker Julie Menon, Majority Leader Sean Abrio, and of course the champions, the prime sponsors who stoke their necks out and led this whole fight.

31:37Council Member Sanchez, Perina Sanchez, Council Member Amanda Farias, Sheikhar Krishnan, Carmen De La Rosa, and the public advocate, those folks took on a very big job and a very big task and a very controversial topic. And they said, we will work with you to make sure that this happens in the right way. And they work with all the stakeholders and they brought us to this point. Now, the administration, I think, has the easiest part of the job, which is all the political debates happened over the last couple of decades. Now this is over. Now it's a matter of implementation. So far, they have been great.

32:10They have been working closely with us. They have done a lot of amazing things. Like even before, for example, one of the local laws creates the Office of Chief Vendor Services under SBS, Small Business Services Department. And even before the law, you know, becomes, you know, like active or like they have to enact on it, they already created the office a few months before to just make sure that they are ready and well. They had the back office ready for all these applications. Pretty much. They did that right away. and even they hired my former colleague, the former co-director of SVP Karina, who is now leading this office.

32:46And now she's building a great team and we are actually partnering with them all the way now. So that's one big piece. Another piece also like throughout the policies and conversations we're having, they are reaching out to us and having conversations with us. Which was not happening before. Never, I mean, never. It was the first time ever in the history of the Shivan Project project that we attend a roundtable about street vending with three deputy mayors and four commissioners. And they were all in the room back in July 28th. I remember this day. July 28th in City Hall, we had a roundtable for just an hour and a half to talk about street vending.

33:26They heard from the vendor community. They were taking notes. I saw all the commissioners with a notepad, like taking notes from what we're saying. And they just realized how much work they have to really address and have to fix. So I think we're seeing a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. We also know that it's going to be a work in progress and it's going to take them a lot. But I really hope that they move as fast as needed because we understand that things take time to change. There are processes and there are legalese and there are a bunch of lawyers who want to yell at you every time you want to touch something.

33:56That always happens in city government. But I really hope that they allocate enough resources and pay attention because also we have to also be honest and clear with ourselves. The enforcement is not backing down. So, I mean, Mayor Vandami campaigned on food. I mean, he's obviously very connected to all sorts of restaurants in New York, and it's great to see. Have you guys broken bread together? Have you gone to some vendors together, and have you introduced him to any new cuisines? He has been engaging with a lot of the vendors throughout the campaign, even before he was a mayor. Since he became mayor, we've been interacting in some events here and there, but we haven't really done the food tour for Mayor Mamdani.

34:39I think we should. That's maybe an invitation for him and his team. Let's do a food tour in the streets and we're going to take you where you should eat every day. That's a wonderful invitation. Mayor Mamdani, I think you should take it up. I think that this is the best tour guide you could ever ask for. And I think the vendors would be thrilled to see him there. They will be. Another big initiative that I think is really cool is the Clean Powered Carts Pilot. it. It seems that the gas generators are an environmental concern. They're a community concern. And you're helping lead an initiative to get rid of those noisy, exhausty generators.

35:20What are you working on? Sure. So again, the whole context here is very important. And starting with why vendors use this generator. This famous red gasoline generator is almost in every cart now. And a lot of people don't know that vendors have very strict rules. Like the health code is still the same. It's almost identical to what the restaurants have to follow. But now we have to apply that in a 5 by 10 push cart. Amazing. It's a very challenging job to just do. So you can imagine that vendors need all these electricity power for their fridges and freezers, their ventilation system, even the lights.

36:01The health code requires you to have lights inside the car to be able to see what you're cooking. So the vendors need electricity to run the cars and run the business, and there are no options but these gasoline generators. So they use it and they say, that's the only thing that's practical that can't keep me in business. And now on the flip side, we see sometimes people complain about the generators. The generators are very noisy, all the pollution and all the emissions, and they show you the data and the data, of course, looks really scary. But then on the flip side, we go and ask the city over the last couple of decades, what are you doing to help the vendors transition?

36:33And the city will say, ah, that's up to them, whatever. If you want to use batteries, if you want to do whatever, let them go find an alternative. So the city at the time was not interested in doing anything to help the vendors. They just say, vendors, you take care of it. It's not our business. But then on the flip side, we go out of our way. And in 2020, we launched the Environmental Justice for Vendors by Vendors program. And again, starting with the vendors, we surveyed 200 food vendors to understand why they use generators, what can alternatives exist, what have they tried in the past. And we started with this electrification program to kind of like try to identify different products and different options in the market.

37:13Now, the issue we have here is that there is no one size fits all for the cart, right? The electricity needs are very different. The shift hours play a big role. There are so many factors. It's like 50 or so moving pieces at any vending business that you have to keep in mind to come up with the right prototype. So we partnered with a lot of organizations, mainly funders. The New York Community Trust has been our amazing champion over the last six years. They have led the charge with us, but also like other manufacturers, other battery companies who are building batteries for different uses. and we're asking them what exactly can fit that purpose.

37:52We have partnered with a bunch of battery companies. We have purchased a bunch of batteries. Even some companies donated their batteries. We want to be a part of your pilot, go out and test it out. We tested the batteries with more than 20 vendors. And right now, this year, we launched a partnership with the Mayor's Office of Climate and Environmental Justice, along with other organizations, and the vendors in Corona and the Flushing Meadows Park. So like looking at what can we do, how can we get that prototype that can be scalable, that hopefully will be sufficient to what the vendor community needs.

38:29So now the pilot is running. We're hoping that it's going to show us great results and we're going to move forward. I mean, I love to hear that. And obviously we want a clean city. I mean, wild idea, maybe oversimplification. What if the city provided the batteries? Well, even without oversimplification, but even like a very practical idea, what about connecting to the grid? Or that too. Wouldn't that make a lot of sense? How many light poles we have in the city? Can we just put like a little outlet in each of them and like run an extension cord and get the vendors connected and get away with the batteries and everything?

39:05Yeah. And actually back in 2014, there was a pilot on that near Union Square. and a company came in in partnership with Con Ed and DOT and other city agencies and they connected a vendor to the grid and it was the cleanest thing we've ever seen. It's like a little pole coming out. There is an outlet. The vendor is connected. No generator. Everyone is happy. But then in a year or so, they closed the pilot and they said, this pilot is not scalable. It's not great. And then we asked Con Edison, hey, Con Edison, what's going on? Why this pilot was a failure? They said, look at how funny the excuses are.

39:35They said, we cannot put out outlets without ensuring that there is a client that will be using it on a regular basis. And I was like, wait a second, what do you mean? They said, well, the vendors are not legally, you know, tied to this location. They can just move anywhere anytime they want, so we're not going to put it out. And then I'm like, so what happens with these vehicle charging stations? Exactly. I thought the same thing. Do you have a contract with every electric vehicle resident owner in the neighborhood that they have to use that. It's just nonsense excuses that they keep coming up to not do the work that is required.

40:11I just think that the city has to move in that direction of exploring what kind of updates that needs to happen in the infrastructure of the city. Like a few years ago, I visited Paris and I was like, oh my God, we are centuries behind. You walk in the streets of Paris and in every corner there are EV charging stations. I went to Puerto Rico and I've seen some vendor markets and every vendor is connected to the light pole. It is very simple. It's like a little extension cord. Everyone has lights. Everyone is running their business and not a single generator is operating. Why New York City is so behind?

40:45This is embarrassing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like you're on the right track to get either batteries or right direct link to the grid. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. There's a moment every fall when I want my kitchen to actually feel like fall. And it usually comes around the time of my first pot of chicken soup. When I wrote Food IQ with my buddy Daniel Holtzman, we spent a lot of that book pushing people past their comfort zone with recipes for sous vide, homemade pasta, and boss-style braising. And I've found that living up to my own advice always starts with finding the right equipment.

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44:02The Vendy Awards ran for 15 years and ended in 2019. I was a huge fan of that afternoon. I covered it for various publications, but it ended in 2019. I have to ask you, Mohamed, if you're thinking about bringing it back, because I feel we need it back. We need the Vendee Awards back. Yeah, that's the question that kind of like in the minds of more than 1 ,500 people who are used to attending the Vendee's. It's a beautiful event. Every year, it's an amazing event. There is no doubt about it. And just a little teaser to your audience and you. And please, this is not a legally binding commitment.

44:39So please don't sue me for that if we don't bring it back. But we are now in conversations to explore what bringing the Vendee's back might look like if it's going to be feasible, one, but also like what kind of format could it exist in? I think so many people love the Vendys. The New Yorkers, the visitors, people were like making trips around the Vendys time because they want to come to New York City and attend the Vendys and join this big celebration, but also the vendor community. Oh my God, so many vendors. They want to win. They want to win. They want to participate. They want to be a finalist.

45:12They want to, you know, compete and get that Vendys trophy. everyone is like so obsessed with the vendies. So there are conversations now that are happening. And like to remind folks, it was an afternoon where you would buy a ticket and there was like 15, 20, maybe 30. Yep. It was up to 25 vendors. We're competing on five different categories. Yep, yep. And even the attendees would get to vote on who the best vendor is. And then there was like the judge panel would basically pick who will get the Vendie Awards rewards. It's just great for the vendors to have that recognition as being a finalist, put that on the truck.

45:49And so the Street Vendor Project is a 501c3 nonprofit. So you need donations and this is a donation season. Tell us about an upcoming gala that you're hosting. I'm going to link to all the information in the show notes. You can donate on the site or you can buy a ticket to the event in New York. Yes. So this year we are celebrating our fifth annual gala and our 25th anniversary because we're turning 25. Congratulations. Which is amazing. Thank you. So it's happening on October 6th, Tuesday, October 6th. And it's going to be at MoMA PS1, our amazing partner who's been hosting the gala for the last several years.

46:26And it's kind of like a mini Vendies. Maybe just to put it out there. If you are used to going to the vendies and like having the fun of, you know, tasting 20 different vendors, this year we have eight different vendors. We're not getting 20. But again, we're not hiring a catering company. We're hiring our vendors, our people who will be out there with their cars, with their tables, with their trucks and serving you the food. So you're going to find a very diverse cuisines in the space and you're going to have tasting from all these different foods, but also like really come to support the mission of the organization and the growth we're in right now.

47:03Can you tease out a couple of the vendors that are going to be at the event on October 6th? Of course, why not? The first one that comes to mind will be Conafa Bites. So Conafa Bites is this upcoming kind of like a new start in Astoria. They are selling Palestinian pastries. Wonderful Conafa, wonderful pastries, Middle Eastern. It is so unique. I haven't seen in my life a dessert truck in New York City that looks like that. So please go check it out. It's on 31st Street and Astoria, Detmars Boulevard. I love that. Kanaf is one of the world's best pastries. So delicious. Yes. And the second I can think of to let people know, I would go with Mido's halal cart.

47:49He's kind of like selling this traditional classic halal food, the chicken over rice. He's on 60th Avenue and 16th Street if you want to stop by and grab a bite. But if not, you can come to our gala and you can enjoy the food. I love that. Again, linking to the show notes, the tickets are available and you can also just donate. Last question before a taste check. So listeners, we're getting hungry. We're listening. We're hearing about all these great cards. What's the best way to support a vendor in your neighborhood? It's where you live or where you work or if you're visiting New York, What's the best way to support?

48:24So many ways. I want to start with just buying their products, right? Whether it's food, merchandise, souvenirs. Go and buy from them and support them, but also get to know them. This is something that's very interesting. We are seeing that a lot of folks in New York, we're so busy, we're moving super fast. We just want to go about our day, and then we stop by the coffee cart, grab the coffee, and just go. And we don't strike a conversation with the vendor to get to know them better, to get to hear from them. And every now and then you will find a New Yorker who would just stop by a vendor and like start the conversation.

48:57And they will be astonished by how much the vendor is dealing with. And I remember seeing these emails from a lawyer in Midtown. And he was like, I just realized that my local vendor is getting tickets every day because of this nonsense rule about the fire hydrant. And I've been buying from him for 25 years. Can you please help out? and he sends me pictures of the tickets of the vendor and where the vendor is at. And I'm like, thank you, we'll take care of that. It just, hello, how are you doing? How can I help? What are you going through? This is an amazing way to support vendors. But of course, support the movement.

49:32Like I know that we talk a lot about the movement and what we have accomplished together and what we have reached right now. But in the future, we need a lot of support. We need people to be out and about and support the sheet vendor and support the movement that we're building. and the support can come in so many ways. Like the easiest one is of course to donate to the organization, the chief vendor project, support financially. But even like making a phone call to your local elected official, to your council member and express your support or flag to them an issue that you see your vendors dealing with or just let them know that you don't support some narratives that are put out there that are trying to attack the vendors.

50:12Because every now and then you will see like a New York Post article. These vendors will need to get rid of them. like whatever the heck people are trying to, a lot of nonsense. You really want to express that because you get a very small group of like angry people who hate vendors who are just very loud, but then you have millions of people who rely on the street vendors every single day. We want to get a small group of that part to be just as active. Listeners, just don't take your street vendors for granted. Yes. Be a human, say hello. I know many of our listeners are nice and do that, but just say hello and write.

50:44Like your local official, If you are based here in New York, you know, let them know if you're seeing something funny in your district. Yep, totally, totally. And it goes a long way. The vendors themselves just feel the support from the community, even when something, you know, goes wrong and they find the community stepping up. It's just like really tremendous. And I remember a couple of months ago, I saw this video of one of our members, Chef Tammy, in central Harlem. She was out there with her food truck basically giving away food for free. And the sanitation stopped by and said, oh, you don't have the right permit.

51:15We're going to seize your truck. And there was a whole scene and all the community members came in and they were like, what do you mean? Tammy has been a part of this community for decades. You cannot touch her truck. Please back off. And that pressure on the sanitation officers got them to back off and leave without taking the truck. Again, the situation is not resolved. We're still in conversations with the community board and Chef Tammy and the sanitation. But at the end of the day, expressing your support, your local vendor, go a long way. Yeah, I love that. Mohamed, on This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste.

51:47So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire. Fast and Furious taste check. Are you ready? I am. The best fruit? Mangoes. But they have to be from Egypt. Not any mangoes. Love that. The worst vegetable? Kale. Why? Why do we eat kale? Too much kale in our world. What is your typical breakfast? It has to be egg and cheese. I love eggs. I love cooking them. Even with some sujuk, that's kind of like beef sausage that we make in Egypt or Turkey. It's great. The best dessert? I have to go with konafa. Konafa is my favorite, my go-to any day of the week. When that balance is just right. Especially the one with the cheese underneath, the napolsi konafa.

52:31Oh my God. Yeah, the cheese and the puff pastry. It's perfect. Yes. The last great meal you had on the street, not in a restaurant? I have to say it was Sam Falafels at Zaccati Park. We just had like a staff outing and we just got a bunch of falafel platters. So delicious. So great. The last thing you cooked at home for yourself? It was a couple of days ago and it was fava beans, full. So in Egypt, we're very famous for eating fava beans, which I know is not very popular in so many cultures, but it's low cooked and it's ready to eat. and then you add so many different spices and vegetables to it.

53:11You can just eat it as a sandwich or just scoop it out and make many tacos with your hands. Yeah, Egyptian fool. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. So great. Last one, your favorite sandwich. I'm kind of torn apart between the falafel, the fool, and maybe also the chicken kebab wraps because these are like very filling, but they're not going to, you know, like make you irritated. They're just perfect. You put the white sauce on? I do. Yes, a lot of white sauce. Sometimes hot sauce depends on who you're getting the hot sauce from. If it's the halal guys or Adel famous hot sauce, you don't want to touch that.

53:48That's a little dangerous. Yeah, but other hot sauces are really good. Yeah, you got to be careful with the red, but always have the white. Always have the white. Mohamed, this has been really a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you so much for having me.

54:05This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

54:47Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

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