843: Kwame Onwuachi on Pitching Investors, Cooking All Hours, and Golf Taking Over His Life

23:41Oh, it's cool. I got to check that out. I haven't been back in a few years. And then we got new plates. We had guest speakers come in, like Dr. Jessica B. Harris and Eric Repair on, like, having a restaurant for 30 years. What is that like? You know? We did the plating of a lot of our dishes, even our signature dishes. But at the essence is, you know, we don't want to lose what got us here. And that was just being authentically ourselves. Things come in waves. We know that. we're not going to be number one every single year. You know, that would also be boring. Other restaurants are going to come in and we're happy for them.

24:14And, you know, the tide will come back. And I think we just have to, we can't have any knee-jerk reactions though.

24:20Aliza:No, definitely. And like year five, and I got to believe these changes and these like inspirational speakers was because like, there's some pressure on you at year five because of all the new. But we don't think about that, honestly. You know, there are restaurants that come and go all the time. And also, we're not on the operating table. We're serving dinner. So what really is, it's inspired the staff to just, like, you know, take what we're doing seriously. But it's more of a gift to them to, like, reshine the place up and not, you know, rest on our laurels, right? Because, like, at the end of the day, like, we just want to focus on the people that are in those four walls at any given time.

24:58and it's not about like okay now we got to put an instagrammable menu item up or you know we have to like do something crazy that's so out of character and change the whole menu like no it's like let's reinvigorate our staff let's under let's let's go through like what we've done in this time that we've been here so we can celebrate ourselves but also give them the credit that this restaurant isn't happening without what they're doing on a daily basis. You know, we've had a line for four plus years now. You know, there's nothing that we need to change.

25:34Aliza:I've always loved that about you. You're quite confident the way you present your restaurant, especially Tatiana on social. Because I recognize that it isn't about the splashy it dish. I mean, you have to keep being in the mix, obviously, your restaurant, but you're not trying to oversell it. No, no. Let me ask you, did you have to change direction when you were opening Las Vegas, knowing that market? No. We didn't. I don't know that market. I'm not from Las Vegas. I've only been there a handful of times. And what I do know about Las Vegas is every time I went there, it was a worse iteration of a restaurant that I had been to before.

26:09It was like the not 2.0 version, but the 0.5 version of the restaurant. And this is not shame to all the restaurants that are doing that. But in my experience, I'm like, oh, I've been to this restaurant back in L.A. and I've been to this restaurant back in New York and it's better in New York, you know. And I and I wanted to give Vegas not what they wanted, which probably was a Tatiana Las Vegas, you know, very splashy, giant purple clouds. You know, I wanted to give them something that they needed, something that they didn't know they needed. And like wildly enough, being the first like black restaurant on the strip, I think I owed it to them to give them something that was also very authentic.

26:48That's true. That's what they say. I'm not a historian by any means. No, but that's what they say. I don't want anybody to quote me. That's amazing. That's what people are saying.

26:55Aliza:Yeah, it's amazing. Happy you're there. So what's on the menu? I mean, that's cool. Like that you're... I'm happy I'm there too. Yeah, no doubt. Like what's on... Like what... How does that... It's a Caribbean steakhouse. Yeah, okay. You know, we have a giant jerk pit that we put in the middle of the restaurant. That's fun. You know, there's a whole section devoted to stuff inspired by Halshire Beach in Kingston and lots of seafood. Then you have your Steakhouse Classics just done in the Caribbean fashion. You got to have a Steakhouse in Las Vegas. I mean, you got the big chip coming from your day at the card table.

27:30Aliza:Yeah, man. Got to do a steak. It's fun. It's fun. I love it. Do you try to make it back once in a while? Yeah, I'm there quite often. Yeah, yeah, because we just opened up. So I had to be there in the beginning to make sure things were running smooth. So you have D.C., Vegas, and New York. What's the call schedule? you rolling calls all day looking checking in with your cdcs yeah yeah i mean it depends on the restaurant yeah who i who needs a little bit more attention and depends on what's going on but in the beginning we spend a lot of time there um setting up systems instilling culture training the cdc and you know at that point it's up to them to uphold the standards and it's up to us to instill the culture well tell me about this cpg idea you have yeah because i mean you told me off mic but i want to get on mic because it sounds great and you were just out in an investor pitch before yeah studio yeah did it go okay it went really well it went really well um yeah uh it's uh for patties so jamaican patties yeah i've been making them for you know probably over a decade now in the restaurants and um yeah i mean i think it's just it's just the next step for me to get this into into the hands of people and make my food more accessible um you know i've been eating patties since I was, I don't remember the first patty I ate.

28:49That's how long I've been eating them. And it was a staple within my community. But as I travel around the country and I'm in different grocery stores, I still see them. It doesn't matter where I'm at in Las Vegas, in the Midwest, in LA, in Miami, New York, obviously. Um, so there's, there is a void to be filled. Um, and I'm confident that, that I can be the person to do that.

29:12Aliza:So they're frozen? They're frozen. There's plant-based, there's vegetarian, there's the full speed? Exactly. Yeah, there's the full sweet. We actually launched a patty restaurant just to get some research and see how it goes. We have one in Citi Field and one in Barclays Center. And we've done a variation of different ones from like curry chicken to jerk mushroom to spicy beef. We have a chopped cheese one at Citi Field. Nice. So, yeah, it's it's it's been a fun ride and we're ready to take that next step into retail. Retail grocery start regional, you said, and then expand out. Exactly. Yeah.

29:46Aliza:That's great. I wish you luck. That's a tough business. I got questions about the book, but first, is there a city you really want to open in restaurant wise that you like is on your list? Yeah. Atlanta. Oh, yeah. I want to open Atlanta. I feel like the food would do really well there. And it's such a great community of people that are well-versed in that type of cuisine. I mean, cultural center of Black America. Exactly. So, like, I've opened a lot of these restaurants not in a Black cultural center, right? Like, D.C. is for sure. It's Chocolate City. Like Atlanta has a huge black population as well.

30:27And I think it would go over very, very well there. And I think it's something that they need, you know?

30:32Aliza:I mean, it's a great food town. I think it gets a little bit like forgotten, especially Northeast. We're like snobs up here. We don't go to Atlanta, but like Decatur. I love Atlanta, guys. Decatur is great. My friend Marijuana Ronnie's got great restaurants down there. What's the concept? What do you want to do? I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to really sit with it. But I know that Atlanta would be a great city to open in. So about your books. So you've written these three books with Joshua Davis Stein, a friend of mine, great collaborator. You've written the memoir, of course. You've written a heritage cookbook.

31:07Aliza:And now it's a lifestyle cookbook, a modern times cookbook. Do you consider this a trilogy?

31:15Maybe. Maybe it's the evolution of Kwame Onwachi. Yeah. Maybe. be that's a good point you know i think everything is connected at the end of the day especially it's telling my story so like the first one was like my full story then it was like my heritage with my america like this is my version of america american cuisine and this one is all ours this is me like my character is shown through the the pages of this book it's fun it's vibrant it's based off of things i actually eat i'm not trying to give you a history lesson in each one you know There may be a riff on a White Castle burger or Crunchwrap Supreme or a club sandwich from the lobby of a hotel or Ben's Chili Bowl in D.C.

31:54or Tip Cow in D.C. or the Halal carts in the streets of New York City. Or even Nutcrackers from the Bronx. You got your version of Nutcracker in the book. I got a couple. What's the spirit of choice? It depends on the Nutcracker. I see. Sometimes it's rum. Sometimes it's tequila. Yeah. Sometimes it's vodka.

32:12Aliza:I love the 8th Street Chicken chapter. I love that idea. I love that you're kind of thinking about D.C.'s multicultural community through chicken. Tell me, how did you land on that idea? Well, you know, D.C. has like the largest population of Ethiopians outside of Ethiopia. And you can't talk about D.C. without talking about Ethiopian food. And H Street has a lot of Ethiopian restaurants. and I opened an Ethiopian restaurant actually. I never really told anybody about it because I wanted to just cook. It was after my first restaurant opened and I opened this fast casual restaurant. I didn't say I was a chef.

32:47I just wanted to get back to cooking. And in my research and development, I went to H Street a lot to get Ethiopian food because it was quick. It was more of a quick service version of it. You didn't have to sit in the restaurant. You could stand, it was like the steam tables. You could point at what you wanted. And there was also like a West African restaurant near there. So I kind of put those two things together. And that's how we got the 8th Street chicken and rice. It's the jollof rice. You have the bebede roasted chicken. You have a little bit of whipped ibe. You have the red stew. You have the herb salad, which reminds me of like a Timotem salad.

33:22So it's like all the best things together. And this is what we served on the opening menu of Dogon.

33:27Aliza:It's a great recipe. Awaze. Do you cook with that yourself? Yeah. Yeah, I make it. Yeah, you can make a waze. I've enjoyed cooking with that over the years. It's great. It's one of my favorites. Yeah, it's so much depth of flavor in it. It's crazy. It's so crazy. I mean, gochijan has its fermentation, but I think a waze has got a different level. It's really beautiful. Yeah, it's different because it normally has either honey wine or the Ethiopian beer in it. Yeah, exactly. What are your favorite Ethiopian dishes? Oh, man. I mean, I think, I mean, doro wat. Doro wat, yeah. I feel I'm kind of basically like that.

34:01Aliza:but when it's done right I've been lucky to go to Ethiopia myself. Oh wow. I went down 12 hours south of Addis Ababa to a coffee farm and wrote a big story for it about a decade ago. Wow how was that? It was beautiful. Beautiful country. It was like 13 ,000 foot elevation and it was not ready I was not ready for that. It was like 11 ,000 I think but it was not ready for the elevation Like black aspen Have you been to a coffee farm in Ethiopia? In Jamaica, in the Blue Mountains. I hope you can make it to Ethiopia and see the coffee industry there. It's crazy. But they had oase on the table with injera and some meat.

34:41Aliza:Dip it. It was great. Get full. Dip it in the oase. Dip it in some meat. Definitely. Go crazy. It was so good. You're making me hungry. I'm hungry too. I've got to go to a event after this. I might skip it and go to an Ethiopian restaurant. I mean, so the Ben's would-be chili bowl. I like this idea. Yeah. Yeah. Lick it. Yeah. Tell me about it. How it inspired you? Ben's would-be bowl. So when I opened up Dogon, I knew I wanted to do a nod to Ben's chili bowl, but I didn't want to be corny and just feel like a hot dog or something like that. So I called Virginia Ali, who was Ben's wife. Yeah. And I asked, like, what did he actually eat?

35:17Because he was Trinidadian. He wasn't American. And she told me he loved curry beef with, like, potatoes and, like, you know, tamarind chutney. So I made a lamb version of like what Ben would actually eat, not what he cooked for everybody else. Yeah. So that came together and that became one of our signature dishes.

35:36Aliza:It was really cool. You write about that in the book. It's a great story. Yeah. And it's cool that you got in touch with the family. And we're doing an event for them. Oh, cool. With them. Is it tomorrow? It's tomorrow. Jesus Christ. We'll see how it goes. See how it goes. It's going to be great. I love this line. Every black mom has a spaghetti in her repertoire. never really like thought about that angle with spaghetti i like i'm just like that's that's me and like i read it but then you make an explanation there and i'm i'm just curious about what you meant by that and how this recipe represented black food ways and like this statement that really was i was like that's interesting to me yeah black people eat spaghetti a lot um it's like it's in the it's in the arsenal of dishes normally for for uh dinner time yeah and you know ours is it depends on what part you're from some people put a lot of sugar in it um but at the end of the day there is an all-purpose seasoning in it so it tastes really really good you know like ours is how spicy then you mix the spaghetti with the sauce and it kind of absorbs it and it's all in one big pot it's like this sauteed thing that's like meticulous and a little bit of pasta we're like we're not doing any of that we're making a big pot of spaghetti with meat sauce it's gonna be seasoned very very well and you'll probably be eating it for a couple of days all good and then like all purpose italian seasoning is good yeah like chef i mean food writer to chef chef to food right right we're recognizing that's good nothing wrong with it we're everybody needs to stop fronting like this stuff is good that's what all hours is about being let's be honest with our friends What do we actually eat?

37:16Or what fulfills us and what fulfills our soul when we eat? And that's what this book is really about. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to show people how I actually eat.

37:25Aliza:Which I like the brevity of the recipe writing. I think you did a really great job just keeping it really tight. And that's important with books like this. And also all the things are like they're accessible at the grocery store. Most of these items are specialty items. But it has your creativity. which is, I think, because there's lots of books that are full about accessibility, but they're just not good. I mean, they're just not that creative. It's like basic stuff, but you got a chef here. I didn't know you don't love vegetables, and you're not really leaning into them. What does that mean?

37:56Aliza:Now you know. Now you know. Yeah. That's it. That's it. I don't love them. I eat them, but I mean - Why don't you love them? If it's a choice between broccoli, steak, and ice cream, I'm not choosing broccoli. Yes. You know what I mean? And that's all that I'm saying. And I'm an adult now. I can make my own decisions. So I'm eating very meat-focused meals. Yeah. Yeah. Is that protein-maxing? It's flavor-maxing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a carnivore. I respect it. Some of us are herbivores, you know, in this world. I mean, you got to get that Bryson DeChambrough kind of drive going. Exactly. And it comes from eating steak.

38:38But I like steak and potatoes and steak and rice. Yeah. I think also that's like part of my culture. Like in the Caribbean, we're not eating vegetables. Like it's part of the sauce, if anything, but that's not like the star of the show. Yeah. In Africa, Jesus Christ, like no, like it's a sign of like pride to like put meat on the table for everybody that's joining and you have your starch and you have your rice. And once again, our food takes all day to cook. And normally there's lots of like, you know, alliums in there and maybe, you know, braised greens. But I don't remember eating a salad in Africa.

39:15We're not doing that. We're not wasting our time with that. So I'm not going to front like I like to eat that. Will I eat it? For sure. But that's, you know, that's not my culture.

39:24Aliza:It's not your culture and you're showing ways that can integrate vegetables. But like it's a balanced diet. It is. It's in the sauces and everything. Sauces and you've got other ways of catching fiber and all that. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. There's a moment every fall when I want my kitchen to actually feel like fall. And it usually comes around the time of my first pot of chicken soup. When I wrote Food IQ with my buddy Daniel Holtzman, we spent a lot of that book pushing people past their comfort zone with recipes for sous vide, homemade pasta, and boss-style braising. And I've found that living up to my own advice always starts with finding the right equipment.

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42:09Aliza:That's zbiotics slash taste Code taste for 15 % off your first order Hi there, I am fully charged And here to tell you Toy Story 5 is now on Disney Plus Woody! It's been too long cowboy Woody, Buzz and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure With some seriously cool new tech What? Holy butterscotch! You said it Jesse So save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home And the best part? It's perfect for the whole family Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney Plus, rated PG. I have to say Alex Lau shot the cookbook. They're crazy.

42:50Aliza:Great job. Great job. Him and I worked on a cookbook project myself. What's it like working with Alex? We had to give Alex a little love. It was fun. We had a blast shooting this cookbook. Like an absolute blast. I think we shot it over four days. Yeah, we had so much fun in this little studio. He had a great team as well. of prop designers and lighting. But you can feel it kind of jumping off the pages that we actually had fun shooting this. Absolutely. You see it right away. It's really fun. And I love the vivid color and just like it brings to life all these great stories. Kwame, on This is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste.

43:26Aliza:So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire Fast and Furious taste check. Let's do it. The best fruit? Mangosteen. Tell me why. It's the queen of fruits for one. That's just its tagline. So, but it's, it, it has a flavor of like white grape and peach, a little bit of mango and pineapple. It's also like fun to open. It's like the kinder egg of like fruits and you, you cut it perfectly and it's this deep purple fruit and then you pop it open. And this is like beautiful white flesh inside. And it's like so succulent and soft. It's also, it's a treat when you can find it. The worst vegetable.

44:05The worst vegetable. uh anything bitter bitter melon radicchio frisee all that's gotta go like i'm not into that it's out that's out broccoli rob is as bitter as i'll get out but i would just rather eat broccoli fair yeah what is your typical breakfast um quadruple espresso normally yeah um but if i have to eat it'll be a bacon egg and cheese yeah on a roll you have a spot or do you make yourself No, just whatever bodegas. They sell them actual pork bacon. Yeah, absolutely. The best dessert? Best dessert is ice cream in various forms. So creme brulee, ice cream, any vanilla custard. Yeah, vanilla custard in various forms.

44:50Baked or frozen. Creme anglaise. Creme anglaise. In that zone, yeah.

44:54Aliza:All of that zone of desserts is up there. Beautiful. A couple more. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead? um grazed papaya oh yeah you know there's one left right there's one left but this should just okay from the dead dead yeah like uh total dead roy rogers yeah the one in times square is there one in times square wasn't there one there's still one around no it's been it's been gone for a while ted's steakhouse oh yeah remember that yeah time square back in the day of course i went that one okay all right times square you're spending some time in times square good yeah Yeah.

45:32Aliza:Tez was cool. These are great, great memories. I like those a lot. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? It depends because it depends on my mood of craving. It's not just one that satiates it. McDonald's is up there. Getting like a fish filet with nuggets and fries or a Big Mac with nuggets and fries. Popeye's is elite though. It's hard to even categorize that as like fast food. It's its own category. I love In-N-Out. The double-double animal style. You can miss me with the fries, but it's still a great meal. The last thing you cooked for yourself at home? For myself at home, not for other people at home?

46:08You can say it. I just cooked a big Labor Day spread. I made an orzo salad, a pistachio and orzo salad. I made honey glazed pork tomahawks. I made some corn with a Creole butter and Parmesan. on. I took the corn, I charred them in the husk and then just broke them open and poured that over it.

46:32Aliza:Last one, your favorite sandwich? In the world? Yeah. In the canon of sandwiches. In the canon of sandwiches? Yeah.

46:43I gotta go with a chicken parm. It's so tight. It's so structured. It hits the spot. It's like a meal. Other sandwiches don't necessarily always hit the spot like a full meal. I feel like I ate a sandwich, you know. But this one, I feel like I've eaten something that's like architecturally sound does the button need to have seeds no it doesn't matter it just needs to be nice bread you can get creative yeah the bread just has to be good good bread but good but good insides love that hi there i am fully charged and here to tell you toy story 5 is now on disney plus it's been too long cowboy woody buzz and jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech.

47:25What? Holy butterscotch! You said it, Jesse! So, save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part? It's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney Plus, rated PG. Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweetgreen's Fall Harvest Menu is back,

47:47Aliza:with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move, order on the Sweetgreen app. I'm really hungry right now. Kwame, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you. Thank you.

48:21Aliza:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.